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00:00:01
No Mistakes w/ Jo Bahdo
22 Plays10 months ago
In this episode, I chat with Switzerland-based writer and fellow healing perfectionist Jo Bahdo about their recent season of writing project, defining what perfection even is, taking steps to heal distrust in ourselves after we haven’t shown up consistently for our craft, and the value in having a “no such thing as mistakes” mindset when it comes to practicing our art.
Jo Bahdo (they/them) is a writer, an avid reader, and a regular cinemagoer and is currently co-directing the Swiss Youth Film Festival in Zurich. They have published two poetry collections and also have two newsletters, one about their current projects and one for writers and creators, all of which you can check out on their website! You can also find Jo on Instagram.
References:
Art Attack
1000 Words of Summer
Recommended
Transcript
Embracing Imperfections in Art
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to The Ugly Podcast, the place where creatives are encouraged to make messy, ugly art and to redefine their relationship to their inner critic. Every other week, I am joined by creatives of all mediums and methods to discuss our creative processes and how we navigate the mental minefield of creativity. This podcast serves as a reminder that you and your art get to be whatever the hell you want to be, ugly and all.
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome back to The Ugly Podcast, everybody.
Meet the Host and the Guest
00:00:35
Speaker
I am your host, Lauren Alexander. I use pronouns they them. And today I have an amazing guest with me who is a poetry writer, an avid reader and a regular cinema goer based in Switzerland. They studied English literature and linguistics and film studies and are currently co-directing the Swiss Youth Film Festival in Zurich while honing their writing practice.
00:01:01
Speaker
They published two poetry collections and are currently guilty of having too many open projects, which I absolutely feel you on that one. Joe loves broccoli and is terrified of grasshoppers, which is really funny to me. And then yellow has always been their favorite color. Welcome. Can you please introduce yourself with your name and pronouns, please? Hi, thank you very much first. And yes, my pronouns are they them.
00:01:28
Speaker
Amazing. I'm so excited to have you here.
The 91 Days Writing Project
00:01:32
Speaker
I have been watching your journey on Instagram very closely, which has been so fun to see your 91 days of writing, which congratulations. You just finished this like yesterday or two days ago. I can't remember exactly, but congratulations.
00:01:50
Speaker
Thank you very much. Yesterday, I think, though, there was a moment in which I kind of messed up with the math, so I think it will be today officially, but it's okay. We're creative people. We're not math people. It's okay. Yeah. So good. Yeah. How are you feeling now that it's done, just in general?
Social Media Burnout
00:02:16
Speaker
I'm kind of relieved. Like I'm very happy that I did it, but I'm not the type of person that necessarily loves being so much on social media. And I feel like I gave a lot of energy just being on Instagram and I'm just looking forward to take a break from that. Not from writing, like that I'll continue obviously, but just the being witnessed constantly.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, being witness constantly is really hard. And I think I am really grateful that you did it, especially because you even posted on those days where you were feeling not so inspired or embarrassed or other kinds of crunchy things where you just are not in the mood and you still posted. And I think that makes me so happy. And part of why I do
00:03:06
Speaker
the ugly podcast and ugly art and things and just like wanting to show that process because the more honest we are about how the actual creative process is, the more accessible we make it to other people. So thank you for sharing all that vulnerability with people. I think it's really cool.
00:03:22
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for seeing it. Sometimes it was really like posting in the void and I wasn't really sure I was able to transmit anything. But it is making my heart happy hearing that it actually helped in some way that someone appreciated and seen the effort. So thank you for saying that.
Creative Childhood Reflections
00:03:43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. So tell me more about yourself. Tell me about your relationship to creativity throughout your life.
00:03:53
Speaker
Yeah, creativity has actually always been very present since I can remember, though it wasn't writing. Writing came much later. But it was something that I always...
00:04:08
Speaker
I remember making candles with my cousin, I remember enjoying knitting with my mother, I remember trying to make all sorts of crafts that... Have you ever seen Art Attack? It's like this...
00:04:24
Speaker
British television series and it was very in when I was a kid. So there were these episodes and they will show you some type of art and I remember like trying to reproduce those. Very, very crafty.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. And then I also remember that I stole wood from my neighbors because I wanted to make my own house. So that was also very crafty and very creative of me. Yeah. Did you get creative in how you stole the wood?
Film Theory and Career Aspirations
00:05:00
Speaker
I think I could have been smarter there. Eventually they caught me and then I had to give up on the house. It's always been very present.
00:05:16
Speaker
It's still now something that I really enjoy and I wish I will do more with my hands. I wish I would like get more physical with materials. Now it's very much like typing and like keyboards. Yeah. Well, and film too. So what do you do with film?
00:05:36
Speaker
I started film, like I started film theory and like story. So everything that is more on the theoretical level. Okay, cool. So originally I did want to study like filmmaking. Like there was an original idea when I was a teen.
00:05:58
Speaker
The plan was to go and study film, like in an art school or something. But the truth is that I needed a portfolio and I didn't have one. It felt very risky. I couldn't really afford to go to an art school and then maybe not have a job ever.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, so then I just discovered that you can also study theory and history in Zurich. There's also a place in Lausanne that's like the French side of Switzerland, but my French was way too bad for that. So I just came to Zurich and tried to improve my German. And then I was really, really bad at English.
00:06:43
Speaker
But I kind of really wanted to be able to speak English, so I just went for it. It was hard. But I think I managed. I mean, I'm here and I hope people understand me. Yeah, I mean, I think English is great. Yeah, I mean, it took a lot of film watching, actually. It's uptight also. And then, yeah.
00:07:08
Speaker
And now currently film is, I mean, I am in the film industry, so I work in a festival. I could direct this festival and it's more still not practically making films. Gotcha.
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah.
Instagram Reels Challenges
00:07:25
Speaker
I think a lot of that does come through, though, like in your season of writing, like and I know it's like Instagram directing, but like the the way that you organize the the films, the reels each day, like they're really good at the very artsy and really beautiful. So I think that definitely comes through.
00:07:44
Speaker
Wow. I actually struggled so much. I think I put my phone in the most absurd places trying to get an angle and it was kind of okay. So yeah, good to hear. So how have you
00:08:12
Speaker
When you filled out my questions for organizing this podcast and having this conversation, you talked about how there's no such thing as mistakes in creativity. So I wanted to ask how you kind of eventually came to that conclusion and what your struggle or what your belief about mistakes in creativity has been and how it's changed.
00:08:37
Speaker
Okay. Okay. First off premise, I am still like a helium perfectionist, I think. So not just in creativity, but like with throughout my whole life, like in every field, I always struggled a lot with this idea of like, I am not allowed to make mistakes.
00:09:01
Speaker
So I would rather not speak and I would rather not move than make something that could have been possibly wrong or perceived as wrong. But then the truth is that when I think about it, I do not know what I consider a mistake and I do not know what I consider to be perfect. I don't really have guidelines or parameters.
00:09:29
Speaker
And yet, in spite of this lack of definition, I still catch myself trying to make things, quote unquote, perfect. Yeah. So I don't know if I find it very interesting. I didn't realize this until really recently that I didn't know how to define things for me. And I didn't know from where exactly came this idea that things or creative things didn't have space for mistakes.
00:09:59
Speaker
Or yeah, or that I couldn't make mistakes. Um, but now at least I'm trying to, I don't believe it yet. I think a hundred percent, but I'm really trying to, um, I do think that it's these all part of the process that I actually should make these mistakes or whatever they are. Um, and it's really all more experimenting.
00:10:28
Speaker
And also I am allowed to correct myself. Like I am allowed to change my mind. I'm allowed to edit, make it again from scratch. Like it's not all just now or never.
00:10:45
Speaker
in truth. I don't think, I'm not sure I remember the question they answered. You absolutely answered. I don't know if we'll ever get to a place where we truly believe that. I don't know if it's in our capacities as humans to fully be just always okay making mistakes or something not being
00:11:09
Speaker
how we imagine it. But I do, I love that you called out that like, I don't actually have, like, I don't actually know what perfection would look like. I just like have this idea that I couldn't possibly attain it. And like, I love that you called that out of like, I can't actually define what perfection even is. So why am I striving for it? Yeah, no, absolutely. Exactly.
00:11:38
Speaker
But to me it's absurd because, you know, sounds like this. It really sounds like duh. But yeah, when I think, when I, I don't know, when I really think about it, I don't have a definition. I don't know what that will look like for me or in which way do I seek it from something else. Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
I would like to hear from other people. Do other people have definitions for those things? Are they able to define what is perfect? Right. I think a lot of times we picture what we're seeing, which we're seeing movies that are up on screens. We're seeing art that's hung in galleries. We're seeing art that people bought in their homes. We're not necessarily seeing anything that we would make.
00:12:28
Speaker
And so therefore we're like, well, if someone wouldn't buy it, if someone wouldn't pay money, if someone wouldn't want to hang it in their house, then obviously it's a waste of time. It's not perfect. It's not good. And it's a waste of time or something along those lines. Yeah. Which is why.
00:12:45
Speaker
I love showing the process of making art in general because someone doesn't just decide to make a movie one day and come up with Pride and Prejudice. Well, I guess that was a book first. You know what I mean? That was the first movie that came to my head, even though it's the book. Anyway. That's funny. But I also find interesting that you mentioned
00:13:09
Speaker
We see art either bought or shown in some place, so it's attached to a certain value. Perfection is attached to a monetary value, I guess, in something that can be purchased. Otherwise, if it's not bought, then it's not perfect. I don't know if it's a straight line like that, but... Yeah.
00:13:35
Speaker
I think a lot of that, especially for Americans, we're so steeped in capitalism.
00:13:47
Speaker
the like time is money you have to like anything you're spending your time on like has to have some kind of value and so it's really at least like for me I know that when I when I was younger and I pictured an artist or a writer the only people that I pictured are people who made a living off of that and I thought if I can't make a living off of something why would I waste my time doing it
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah. No, I totally get it.
Art Value vs. Monetary Worth
00:14:17
Speaker
And it's not only like making a live it, but living abundantly, like making a lot of more, like more than you actually need. Like I also only recently realized that I actually do not have to earn that much with my art to survive. Yeah. Very interesting. So fascinating.
00:14:47
Speaker
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00:15:12
Speaker
Members of our crew have said that they've reconnected with their excitement for writing and feel energized from the support they've received from us and each other. You can sign up for the writer's home at any time, which comes with a one-week free trial to make sure that we're the right crew for you. You don't need to navigate these stormy seas alone. Let the writer's home take you to New Shores.
00:15:33
Speaker
Where did you get the idea for this season of writing project that you just finished? Last summer, in June, I took part in Thousand Words of Summer by Jamie Attenberg. I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but basically, you write a thousand words for two weeks.
00:15:59
Speaker
And it's usually in June. And you sign up for this newsletter and you will get letters like motivational letters sort of by Jamie, but also by other authors.
Thousand Words of Summer Challenge
00:16:15
Speaker
And those are really encouraging and some are so beautiful. And everyone is just participating and writing this thousand words. So I did that.
00:16:28
Speaker
And I forced it about it, like every day I made Niskaruzel, like a photo dump type of thing. And then after those two weeks, I didn't write a single word anymore.
00:16:47
Speaker
So the thing is like the reason I decided to participate in the first place was because I wanted to get myself back in writing because I didn't write anymore. I finished the manuscript of secondary poems and then I just didn't write anymore.
00:17:02
Speaker
So that was moms. So the idea was, OK, maybe, you know, I give myself these two weeks, I give it all, and then I will be able to establish a routine and also maybe in the process heal the distrust that I have towards myself and showing up for my art.
00:17:22
Speaker
Obviously, that didn't work. Yeah, but I didn't see how that didn't work at first. I only realize it now that I kinda it's like,
00:17:45
Speaker
It's like, it's like I told myself, you know what, I'm going to go and run a marathon every day for 14 days with no preparation. And then I would be a runner. Like that's pretty much what I plan to do. Right. But obviously I didn't work for it before. Um, and that was not the way to get ready for, for establishing a routine. Um, so yeah, months later while, um, being on holidays, I kinda
00:18:15
Speaker
I don't even know how I came up with it, but I was very excited. I had the idea of autumn coming. And then I also, the thing is that I still learned something from those two weeks, right? Like I learned that I can write a thousand words, but I need accountability and I cannot write a thousand words every day. So then I.
00:18:42
Speaker
I decided it had to be something much more long-term because I wanted habits to stick and I wanted to really give myself a chance. Like just a sprint of two weeks wasn't enough. And also I had to make sure that it was something very flexible because I still have to, I still have a job and I still have other things going on. So I cannot spend the amount of time that I need to write a thousand words every day, right?
00:19:11
Speaker
And yeah, then I made a list of the things that I wanted to do and then I defined what is something that I can do every day and that possibly I'm already doing every day. So that would be my bare minimum. Yeah. That's so important to like actually integrate what you already do into whatever habit you want to establish.
Building Creative Routines
00:19:31
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. So the thing that I was already doing every day was drinking coffee and reading while drinking coffee. And I do believe that reading helps a lot my writing practice. So then it was like, okay, then the other thing that I sometimes do is also writing a couple of lines in my journal. So that I can maybe enforce and make sure that I really do it.
00:20:00
Speaker
And then I wrote a list of other things that I would like to do and I defined as like my kind of, I gave it all type of level, writing a thousand words. Yeah. And in this way, there was really no chance that I could have failed. Yeah. Because I was already doing my bare minimum and then it was just like, you know, if I'm having a good day, I can do a bit more, but I'm still making sure that I show up. Yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker
Um, yeah. So then what made you want to, was it the accountability piece that made you want to like post it publicly? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also because I thought maybe it can be useful. Like I didn't know where it would have taken me really. Um, but I wanted to make sure that I did show up and that maybe it could have, yeah, inspire someone or just help me a bit more. Yeah. Um,
00:20:55
Speaker
And I decided to make reels, which isn't really my thing. But the truth is that I never really gave reels a chance. And so I kind of also just decided, you know what, I'm also gonna do 90 reels, see how this goes. Do they really work? Is my account gonna explode after next three months?
00:21:25
Speaker
It was an experiment in that direction. Yeah, that's probably the only thing I regret. Was making it reels every time? Yeah, because it's, I mean, yes, I do like films and I do love cinema and I also maybe have a flair for
00:21:47
Speaker
for filming, but it is so not natural for me to film myself. To be in front of the camera is a different beast, yeah. Absolutely. I didn't want to be in front of the camera. The truth is that most of the things that I did, I was still just barely awake and in my PJ, so I didn't exactly want to film that every day.
00:22:15
Speaker
So I had to be a bit more creative about it and I tried different things and I think I got also lazier with time.
00:22:26
Speaker
I think laziness is really just us slipping into the groove of what works. Maybe. I think that's a good thing. I see it as a good thing. The thing is that I struggled. There was a moment, I think halfway that I was really struggling because I was putting so much effort into these wheels.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I mean, they were reaching the same amount of people, if even. It was not getting any easier to like film them. I felt like I was just screaming in the void. Yeah.
00:23:11
Speaker
And yeah, I think like at first I was really giving a lot of effort, you know, like I was like trying to film everything that was going on. I would do this voiceovers and now towards the end of it, I will just film something five seconds and then I will write this huge caption. And that was that also because I just had to tell myself I'm actually not here to be a video maker. Right. I'm here because I want to.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah, like I want to be a writer and I want to show people how I'm going to do that. Like that was the point, right? So, but yeah, it's hard to not get kind of sucked into the stress of Instagram and like the algorithm and what is being shown and whatnot.
00:24:04
Speaker
and the numbers. That was hard to just distance myself from it and just get back to, okay, why I'm doing this. It's about writing. Yeah. Would you say that was your biggest challenge, was actually navigating the Instagram piece of it?
Future Writing Seasons
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I still plan to do a season of writing again.
00:24:29
Speaker
But I will not limit myself to doing reels. If I feel like doing reels, sure. But I can show the process by taking a picture or in many other ways. Definitely will remove that limit for myself. Yeah, that's a good idea.
00:24:51
Speaker
What did you find most surprising about prioritizing your writing for 90 days? That is easy.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like, I didn't think it would have been so easy. But of course it wasn't. Like, of course the thing is that I worked a lot until it became easy. It did feel like this huge mountain and this thing that I couldn't possibly do again. But then showing up every day, I
00:25:33
Speaker
I discovered again that it aligns with who I am, like it is what I want to do. So then it became really easy, I just had to wake up at 6.30, very reluctantly, make my coffee and just sit down in front of my computer or whatever it was, or a piece of paper and just write. And also trust that I have something to say. Because for a while,
00:26:01
Speaker
I also started thinking, okay, this was not my dream. Or maybe writing was just really this phase that I had and something that I had to let go, that publishing in the first place was a mistake. I really started convincing myself of these negative narratives. Of course, then it felt very difficult, but it practically wasn't. Once I gave myself the chance to do it, it wasn't.
00:26:32
Speaker
That was kind of surprising. Yeah. We build it up to be, like you said, some big mountain that can't possibly, it's like a wall in your face.
00:26:43
Speaker
And then when you actually start like, oh, okay, this wall isn't real. I'm making this wall for myself. It's not real. And also like, it's just kind of like a little, a little incline that also brings me closer to myself and in the process, like builds that confidence and strength and like, there are times like in your process you found
00:27:08
Speaker
what worked for you and you realized what didn't work for you, but you only found that out by doing. So like now you know, you're not going to do reels every time, but you also know I can show up and I can write every day, uh, in some small way, or I can prioritize my writing, whatever that looks like. Maybe it's not even writing that day, but I can still prioritize my creativity, my goals.
00:27:33
Speaker
in some small way, and it's actually not as hard as I've been making it up to be. Absolutely. The thing is that I am really good at putting myself limits. I don't know why I do that with myself, but it's really with everything. Another thing was that I always thought I could only write poetry, so if I didn't have a poem in me, there was no writing that day.
00:28:00
Speaker
Okay, yeah. This brain was made for poems and nothing else. And nothing else. But the truth is that in the past three months, I didn't write poetry.
00:28:15
Speaker
Like, yeah, I started up maybe two poems, like, and then I kind of, now they're there in my notes. But I started something else and I just gave myself the freedom to just write. So yeah, that's another thing that was also very surprising because I'm just removing limits that no one else put on me but myself. Yeah.
00:28:42
Speaker
I loved, so I noticed that when you were talking about like why you wanted to do this challenge, you mentioned kind of like a distrust in yourself.
00:28:55
Speaker
And then I noticed again, like that you mentioned like trusting yourself after this process. I think that's a really cool outcome to come from this is like going from distrusting your intuition, distrusting your, how did you phrase it?
00:29:15
Speaker
Do you remember? Reach back in time.
Trusting the Creative Process
00:29:21
Speaker
Remember exactly what you said, please. I think it was about like distrusting yourself to prioritize your work. And you can correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, maybe. Maybe it was something along those lines. Like I think it was distressing that I will show up.
00:29:39
Speaker
Yeah, you know, because I always say, or for a long time, I will always say, this evening I will sit down and make something creative or like I would write and then I wouldn't. And doing that for a lot of moms, it's not years, I didn't realize it, but it kind of, it wounded me in a way.
00:30:10
Speaker
But I didn't know about this. I didn't know that I could actually distrust myself. I know that I struggled trusting people. I didn't know that I struggled trusting my own self to show up for my craft. That was completely a new concept. Yeah. And then when I finally saw that was the issue that was really underlying, not that I couldn't create, but just really that I couldn't trust myself to do it, then I worked on that.
00:30:41
Speaker
And these three moms really helped in that way because I just had to show up.
00:30:47
Speaker
Also because the prize to not being able to post about it and saying I showed up was way too high. That's where the perfectionism actually helps. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of perfectionism, did you notice your perfectionism changing throughout this process?
00:31:14
Speaker
Yes, yes, I think so. I think the main thing is that I realized that I enjoy making things and that making things bring me way more joy than overthinking how to make the thing in the most perfect way with no room for error right away. Again, it's like the kind of reaction.
00:31:42
Speaker
I just realized that I don't need to be perfect. I don't need my writing to be perfect to help me in some way.
00:31:54
Speaker
So yeah, definitely. I also noticed like not caring anymore about my reels and just whatever. That's one of my favorite things about continuing to show up is just like eventually that feeling of like, eh, I don't care. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah, exactly. It's fine. I showed up, I did what I had to do.
00:32:20
Speaker
Yeah. We have this idea that everything we do has to be good or have value. This belief leads us to burn out. It can hold us back from creating altogether. But in my Ugly Art 101 course, I break down these restrictive beliefs and lead you through exercises that intentionally subvert perfectionism and bring playfulness back into your creative process. You can get the first day absolutely free by going to my website, scribeandsunshine.com and signing up on the homepage.
00:32:48
Speaker
Join me in my weird, ugly art revolution. Back to the show. I have noticed for myself, I don't know if you noticed this too, but as I've like started challenging my perfectionism, excuse me, as I've started challenging my perfectionism and like is kind of stretching myself and kind of bringing myself new capacities to deal with sitting in imperfection,
00:33:17
Speaker
My perfectionism then like sets a new bar for myself. Does this happen to you? Yeah, I think I understand what you mean. It's like, I mean, I think I have this with my writing. I feel with my from writing I'm much more perfectionist than with any other thing that I do.
00:33:44
Speaker
Like if I decide to sketch something, I'm not gonna have the same expectation as to when I decide to write something, like not at all. And with my writing...
00:33:58
Speaker
Like, I had a hard time publishing the second book because I kept thinking it has to be way better than the first one. Right, yeah. Like, the bar was so high. Like, so high.
00:34:13
Speaker
And I don't know why I couldn't just enjoy the fact that I wrote a second book. But with the first one, it was like, it had to be correct and it had to be good. The second one, it had to be way better and had to be like,
00:34:32
Speaker
show people the difference. Who read the first one would not have to be able to recognize that it's the same author. It had to be spectacular. Definitely my perfectionism went somewhere else. That's so funny. We're so hard on ourselves. Yeah. Damn it.
00:34:55
Speaker
But you did it, you published your book and it's in stores and people can buy it and it's awesome. Thank you. But yeah. Okay, so at the end of every episode, I like to ask my guests, what is something ugly you have made recently?
A Meaningful Painting Story
00:35:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:20
Speaker
Actually, it's quite perfect timing because I did something, which maybe it's not necessarily ugly per se, but it's definitely odd. We love it. And last Saturday, I joined this super secret, super small party. That's how it was titled, which was great, actually.
00:35:50
Speaker
And I painted, I decided to take the art supply that I gifted to my girlfriend while she didn't use it. So I kind of took it back. You're not going to use it, I am. Yeah. And I painted this image that I had in my head. It's actually a memory because I remember that as a kid, I always struggled a lot with nightmares. And then I had this technique that I developed.
00:36:20
Speaker
I would call whatever I wanted to dream with my hand, like I will like dial in my hand and then call my dreams. And I will often call strawberries.
00:36:38
Speaker
Just like call him up on the handphone. Yeah, exactly. And then the strawberries will come in my dreams. So I kind of just started painting. Well, first.
00:36:51
Speaker
Also painted on canvas, which I never did before. So that was a whole experiment as well. I didn't know it took so long to dry and I was very impatient. But yeah, so I painted this, well, I made it all black first because I wanted it to be night. And then I have these strawberries on one corner of the picture and then very weirdly
00:37:21
Speaker
Like, obviously I have an issue with proportions, but there are like houses. And then just like a very little me with like a hand near the ear. And like these numbers that like cross from the window to the sky towards the strawberries and I'm calling.
00:37:46
Speaker
I love that. I mean, it didn't turn out that ugly, but it's definitely odd. But yeah, now it's actually hanging up in my bedroom. That's so fun. I love just connecting with our younger selves in that way and giving voice to just the oddities that we thought up in our little brains. And yeah, that's so great.
00:38:14
Speaker
It was really fun. I was really happy that I put that together. I love that you said it didn't even turn out ugly. It's just odd. But usually when I ask people what's something ugly that you made recently, it's not even what they made that stands out to me. It's the smiles and the laughter that follows as people are describing the ridiculous thing that they made recently. And that is just like,
00:38:42
Speaker
It's chef's kiss, so good. It is. I think it was really not having the expectation that it had to be beautiful. It was just really doing it for the joy of doing it. Exactly. So good.
00:39:02
Speaker
Okay. How can people get in touch with you?
Connecting with the Guest
00:39:07
Speaker
Where can they buy your book? And what else do you have going on in the works? Yes. So, um, well, I newly have a website that is jobado.com and there I'm trying to keep it
00:39:30
Speaker
updated with all my new things going on and the books as well. Recently, I published secondary poems. It's been out for two weeks now, I think. It's the sequel of primary poems. Now, I promised I did save the creativity for the poems in the books.
00:39:50
Speaker
The titles are... I was like, what are you talking about? Oh, you're talking about... The truth is that I don't know. Those were the titles that I had in my mind three years ago and they just had to be. That's fine. Is the next one going to be tertiary poems? Please say yes.
00:40:12
Speaker
I was very tempted. I was very tempted to talk about it like that. Or like black and white, just because those are like the colors that I would kind of miss in the collection. Well, anyway. I probably will quit colors in my poems for a moment, I think.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, so my books are both available in paperback and ebook. Pretty much in every store. Like Amazon or Barnes and Nobles or whatever, wherever you like to buy books. Then I am exactly quite present on Instagram, always under just Jovado.
00:41:07
Speaker
And I have two newsletters. One is a monthly one where I just send updates about my life, my projects, something that maybe I enjoyed and I recommend. And then I have this second newsletter, which is mostly addressed to writers or also creatives in general, because I share prompts. And then where you could submit your writing or art. And then again, like some readings or something that I found very inspiring.
00:41:36
Speaker
And it's all completely for free. And I just do it mostly again to keep myself accountable. Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for sharing all those. And thanks for being here and chatting with me. This was really fun.
00:41:50
Speaker
Well, thank you very much for this invitation. I'm still very honored. I'm happy and I'm glad that you're here. And thank you everybody else for listening. And I hope that you all keep creating and making mistakes that aren't mistakes. And yeah, keep it ugly, everybody.
00:42:12
Speaker
The Ugly podcast is created by me, Lauren Alexander of Scribe and Sunshine. It is produced and sort of edited, also by me, and written and directed by absolutely nobody. If you like the podcast, be sure to rate and leave a review on your preferred platform and share with the creative people in your life. If you're interested in learning more about what I do, head to scribeandsunshine.com to learn more about my Ugly Art 101 course, my perfectionism workshop, my editing services, and The Writer's Home, which is an online community for writers, co-captain by myself and Gabby Goodlow. As always, keep it ugly.