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Anxiety is one of the most common mental heath struggles people deal with yet it's hard to even pin down that you're anxious and what you're anxious about. On this round of the Pineapple Blunt Rotation, we're diving into Ahir's experiences with anxiety as it developed throughout the years since childhood and what the long road to healing looks like for him.
Timestamp for Beginning of Discussion - 9:15
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Art of the Week:
The Night We Met, Lord Huron - https://open.spotify.com/track/0QZ5yyl6B6utIWkxeBDxQN?si=e1ece3bc2ab54b4d
Microphones in 2020, The Microphones - https://pwelverumandsun.bandcamp.com/album/microphones-in-2020
Books Referenced:
The Mindful Self-Compassion Workbook - https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Self-Compassion-Workbook-Yourself-Strength/dp/1462526780
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you want to start or? No, I mean, you can start. I started last time if you want to go for it. Do I want to go for it? It's like, uh, it's like, it's like jumping, it's like jumping into the pool, you know, when it's called. That's what it's like. Uh-huh. Honestly, that would work for any intro. Fuck it. This is pineapple blood irritation, bitches. How have you been doing, man? How have all the rest of y'all been doing? I'll get some silence so you can talk to us.
00:00:38
Speaker
This is a good intro, I like it.
00:00:41
Speaker
You just have to, I feel like on a certain planet, you just have to lean into the cringe. Like, then it becomes funny. Yeah. But,
Birthday Celebrations and LASIK
00:00:50
Speaker
for real, I'll give you one. Welcome back, guys. How's life? Life has been a bit of a bitch recently. I see. Just like, yeah, just a lot of stuff going on, like, hey, good times, bad times, like...
00:01:04
Speaker
a pretty decent mix. Since the last time we talked, we had our like birthday party and like both of our birthdays are in August. So we just had like a joint birthday party and like everyone like we know from like California like flew out for that. So that was obviously amazing like seeing everyone like for the first time and like for some of them like probably like over a year. It was definitely like nice to see people. But yeah, it's just been like after that like a lot of like work, a lot of like stuff I've been like catching up on like
00:01:31
Speaker
And then, uh, I got like sick like, uh, last week, I think I can't even keep trying to time anymore. And so it was like that kind of like, yeah, that shifted things around a bit, but now we're back into steady waters now and things are looking good. How about for you?
00:01:46
Speaker
man, it's been, it's been quite a ride, man. Like since the last time we recorded, um, I, you know, obviously you mentioned the party we had. That was, that was quite some for context, like being here and another one of our friends, we all have our birthdays around the same time. So we invited, it was like a high school reunion, um, which is really cool. It was, uh, it was fun. Um, so our,
00:02:13
Speaker
the entire high school group and a bunch of people in Seattle, we all rented out a boat and that very memorable experience. Other than that, I got Lasik. That was a big thing for me, kind of a spur of the moment decision. Yeah, it's a different world than having no classes.
00:02:40
Speaker
I was I was telling I was telling some of my friends like this is how you guys live like you just get up and you go and I can just get up and go to Safeway and not think about anything else along the way like this is this is new it's nice it's nice for sure it's like a weight lifted off of your face but what else man so I'm at home currently but back in California
Returning Home and Breakup Reflections
00:03:09
Speaker
How's it been being back at home? It's, it's, it's nice. I mean, it's definitely nice. It's, it's a little bit tough at this point in my life. Just cause like my, we moved out like kind of outside of the Bay. So it's pretty far away from, you know,
00:03:28
Speaker
yeah yeah people yeah it's like from civilization it's a little bit further out literally um so for for context for you guys uh when i when i uh came to his house the last time like
00:03:42
Speaker
The Uber driver that I took, because I actually Uber'd from San Francisco to his place, which is like an hour and a half away. But once I hit the city he lives in, there were literally paths that the map was showing that didn't exist, where there were just roads that hadn't been built yet. And my Uber driver was like, where the fuck did you bring me, bro? Is there a gas station nearby? I'm going to run out of fuel.
00:04:07
Speaker
going through farmland yeah yeah literally like literally the cow sheds and everything yeah have you been holding up like emotionally from last time we talked
00:04:18
Speaker
It's been an experience, dude. I've fully been experiencing the wave nature of the healing process from a breakup. There have been a couple days recently where I feel a little bit more like
00:04:40
Speaker
okay, my life is starting to make a little bit more sense. Like, this is all starting to make sense. Yeah. But quickly, that also goes away. So it's like, yeah, it's yeah, it's very, it's very up and down. It's very like, my birthday was very,
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean after aside from all the like party and stuff we had like on the day of my actual birthday Like that was very emotional. That was like That was really heavy. I was down that day. That was a that was an interesting experience for sure but I mean We'll save it for the next breakups at this got you got you Don't spoil anything too soon
Podcast Feedback and Vulnerability
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I did want to address the last episode that we did and the support we got from it. That was unreal. It was a very clear first attempt at the podcast. There was some really bad audio that cut out randomly in places. I did try to fix some of that.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, but no, every time everyone I talked to loved it, so many people messaged me. And I don't know, like, did you expect this kind of response? Like, I'm so shook.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, no, I was literally about to say, I never, in my wildest dreams, could have expected this much support. Especially given the context, I feel like we've wanted to do something like this, like a podcast or something, for so long, and just finally holding ourselves to it, just being like, fuck it, let's go for it. And then seeing how much it's resonated with people, and just seeing that kind of feedback, and seeing people. I've literally had people
00:06:38
Speaker
I literally had one of my friends be like, listening to you guys talk made me rebook an appointment with my therapist. To be able to touch people like that, it's just such an enormous... It's something I'm so grateful for. It's incredibly humbling. Me personally, it gives me a big sense of purpose. It's like, wow.
00:07:02
Speaker
What we're doing here is meaningful in some way. Yeah. Yeah. I've had so many people text me like, Hey, like you put into words, like a lot of the same things I went to, went to and perhaps wasn't able to process it like that. And so it was, it was really nice to hear. Um, honestly, like.
00:07:26
Speaker
It's also proved to me that we are all like, we all kind of go through these things. It's like, and I feel like we just kind of all have this fear of opening up in front of other people because we might face judgment or might damage our image in society or things like that.
00:07:53
Speaker
Um, but I think on some level people are kind of tired of these toxic narratives and polarizing takes that definitely do nothing but divide us and isolate us. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully we can grow this. Yeah. No, I'm definitely like connect with more people. Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely excited. Yeah. And I think like, like what you were saying about like,
00:08:20
Speaker
like seeing how much like it it's like like how much people relate to it like i feel like it's very easy to like i guess like in an abstract way like tell yourself like oh like everyone goes through hard times like other people probably have the same feelings you're feeling like it's so easy in the moment like when those feelings like have hold of you to like like just like you can tell yourself that all you want but like that's not necessarily gonna stick or like resonate in the moment like it's so easy to like doubt yourself and to like just see that sort of love like
00:08:50
Speaker
When it's like, I mean, for me, sometimes like it's difficult for me to like open up to people I'm like very close with and like that I've known for like years, like being able to see that kind of like support from like other people is just like incredible. It's something that like I like. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, just astounding to me. Yeah.
Understanding Anxiety
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah. So again, guys, welcome, welcome back to Pineapple Blunt Rotation. And today's topic that we're going to do is anxiety. Yes, this is something that's even more ubiquitous than breakups. And everyone, every single person
00:09:36
Speaker
deals with anxiety in different forms and different ways in different parts of their life. And it impacts people in many, many, many different ways. And I feel like here, I feel like it's like one of those things you don't really make progress on until you realize you have it, right? Yeah.
00:10:00
Speaker
Definitely. To be honest, me personally, I didn't realize I had anxiety until not too long ago, to be honest. And I'm very much on my journey to have just started my journey towards dealing with it. Yeah, I got you. That's a huge thing for anxiety for myself and for other people I know that I've talked to. I feel like anxiety almost gets
00:10:30
Speaker
Like it's hard to like distinguish between like where your anxiety stopped and where it just like turns into your personality in a certain sense, you know, where it's like, like, I've definitely felt like, like there were times in the past where I was like way more introverted and like kept to myself. And like, I almost just saw that as who I was. Like, I just saw that like, I like to be alone. I like to like do my own thing. And it took me a long time to really realize that like, Oh, like.
00:10:54
Speaker
I really do enjoy being around people. I love talking to people and socializing and things like that. There was so much fear I had associated with it that I didn't even recognize as fear. I just couldn't see it for what it was.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head. It's like, it's the anxiety is like, it's so like, it becomes a part of your core, right? It's like, you don't know if it's just who you are or it's something that is shaping your, you know, the lens that you're looking at life through. No, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, where does the line?
00:11:36
Speaker
Where's the line between being introverted and having social situations become exhausting just because you're so constantly stressed that afterwards you feel drained? Yeah.
00:11:54
Speaker
So here, I know like so many other people, like you've dealt with anxiety since, you know, early on in your life. And I know you've personally, I feel like you are probably the person that has made the most progress in like dealing with and processing it. And so do you want to kind of, um, tell us about like your experience? Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:23
Speaker
Uh, definitely have a lot of anxiety here. I've had like pretty severe anxiety for like, as long as I can remember. Honestly, like even in elementary school, like, like, I guess it's just like worrying like, Oh, are the people I'm friends with? Like, do they really like me? Am I just bothering them by like being around? And like, I actually remember like, in elementary school, like I would, I don't know if it's every year, but there were a lot of years where I would just like,
00:12:47
Speaker
like after the summer sort of just like avoid my old like friend group or like barely like talk to them just because like I don't know like there's this such strong like worry and like fear about like oh like we haven't like talked at all like over the summer like I haven't seen them in so long like do they even like walk me around anymore and like it's ironic and retrospect because it's like obviously like
00:13:10
Speaker
if I could make friends that easily like every year like finding a new like friend group like people obviously like like me enough to like want to talk to me and like hang out but at the same time it was like yeah just like this like constant like worry like in the back of my head just like whispering in my ear and like it's like the same thing for like um I guess like what would essentially turn into like anxiety about like school and anxiety about work like I felt that like as a child too like I remember like
00:13:35
Speaker
during the, I remember I do the spelling bee once and like, just like the fear of like, Hey, I guess that's a little different because like, there's a public speaking aspect, but like, even in like spelling tests and stuff, um, I would just like be so worried about like, Oh, will I be able to spell this word properly? What if I'm misremembering how the word is spelled and like stuff like that. And like, over such like dumb shit and like retrospect, but it was just, yeah, that like, it's like,
00:14:02
Speaker
It's, I mean, it's real, right? Like it's not dumb shit. It's, it's so real. I mean, for a kid, that's like your whole world, right? Your friends and how you do in school, that's like 80% of your world. Yeah, yeah. No, no, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I was about to say like, I say it's dumb shit in retrospect, but it's almost like the same way I look at it back at my like anxiety in high school. And I'm like, Oh, I was so like dumb for like worrying about that. But it's like,
00:14:27
Speaker
I mean, that's just the nature of being anxious, right? Like if it was rational, if it wasn't like, I guess like, in retrospect, unreasonable, like it wouldn't be anxiety, you know? Yeah, it's not just dumb. Like, yeah. So you mentioned when you were talking about the social groups and how you would look for different friend groups after every year. It's kind of like, do you feel like it's like,
00:14:56
Speaker
It's kind of like you need a, um, like a connection test, like a, um, you know, like a, like a health check, like, Oh, are we good? Like, are we, and if you don't have that, then the immediate, like the default is like, Oh, we're not friends. Like you don't want to talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. It's yeah. It's more. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
a connection death. Cause I know that's something like that I've felt before. It's like, it's like, Oh, like if I see someone, right. And one time they didn't like nod at me while I was walking by and it's like, Oh, okay. Then the next time I see them, it's. Yeah.
00:15:48
Speaker
I guess we're not friends. I guess we're not nodding at all. Yeah. I just don't know you. I'm just not going to talk to you, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Like, yeah, definitely. Yeah. You kind of hit the nail on the head. Yeah. It's just like, given that like time, I guess it's not even just like not reciprocating, but just like in like elementary school, it's not like we like hung out after school and like spent like hell of time. Like we have like play dates and stuff, but it was just like, I guess not getting that like,
00:16:18
Speaker
constant like affirmation about like that we are friends and that we're hanging out it's almost just like that I assumed like that like my friendships just like fell apart or like I would just like let my anxiety like whisper that into my ear to such an extent where I just believe like okay like like like yeah I would just like convince myself that they didn't want me around anymore so yeah and pretty much what you said but yeah
00:16:47
Speaker
See, you mentioned fear, right? Yeah. And so how do you think fear relates to that anxiety? Does fear cause anxiety? How do you think about it personally? That is a very interesting question. And it's something that I thought about a lot. I almost see fear as life.
00:17:15
Speaker
Fear is almost like an immediate response in like a situation to me. So it's like, if you're very like, say I'm like really worried that like, like, oh, like am I friends, good friends with someone anymore? Like maybe if we got into an argument, like I'm like, we're going to
00:17:30
Speaker
like I'm anxious about her friendship, like if I'm like walking past them and they don't nod at me, like that instinctive like reaction in the moment or like if someone like says something that seems to like reinforce an anxiety, like for me that I sort of see that immediate reaction as fear versus like anxiety has much more to do I guess like with like how I see myself like and how I understand myself like in the world, like yeah. So it's the difference between I guess like
00:18:00
Speaker
in the moment being scared for a friendship versus like worrying afterwards or like when i'm on my own like oh like what if i'm this person doesn't actually like want me to be like hanging out with them or like to be around yeah yeah i think that's that's fair that makes sense and i think you can go both ways like i think like fear can like obviously like cause anxiety because of something like very scary and stressful happens to you like in like trauma cases right like that obviously like will cause
00:18:30
Speaker
like a lack of trust in the future right like if someone like like attacks you like like then like you're going to be worried like when you're around people like oh like is this person like going to try to attack me like like can i like trust this person to like be safe around them like like it for other people too like so it's like fear can cause anxiety but then like anxiety like like
00:18:53
Speaker
you will almost like feel your anxiety through the fear it causes. So it's like an interesting relationship where they both like feed each other. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I'm curious, like...
00:19:09
Speaker
Because obviously, as a kid, it's really hard to grasp at even the concept of anxiety and kind of separate it from yourself, right? I mean, it's hard for most people at all ages, but as a kid, it's like...
00:19:32
Speaker
There's I mean, you can't even think of that being a possibility. Oh, yeah. So I'm curious, like, what that felt like. Do you remember what that felt like? Yeah, I mean, like, like, obviously, like, there's only like bits and pieces like fragments. Yeah, I think it's just like, you can't sort of set like, like, I couldn't separate, like, how I was feeling almost from like,
Challenging Societal Norms
00:20:00
Speaker
It was like, when I worried about whether or not friends wanted me around, it wasn't the idea that, oh, you could be feeling this way, but that could be wrong. You need to assess the situation and see how they're acting around you.
00:20:19
Speaker
like all that like you don't really have a sense for that right it's just sort of yeah you take that feeling for granted and you just sort of like end up projecting it onto the world so i mean like that is still like what we we all do now right like when you're anxious like people are going to seem like more like hostile to you they're getting your
00:20:37
Speaker
you're going to read into things in a way that reinforces your anxiety. So in a certain sense, like it is the same. It's just, yeah, when you don't even have a frame of reference for like what you're going through or like what it, like those sorts of like psychological, I guess, like impacts, like, yeah, it's just you, you just assume that's what the world is like and you just take for granted. And I mean, there was like, like what I was talking about with like fear, like,
00:21:06
Speaker
it wasn't just like projection like there were obviously like things that were like actually like stressful and like actually like scary to me which like just reinforce the anxiety so um i always like to talk about this kind of like um like i'm i've always been someone who like questioned things and like thought about the world and like very like i guess like like yeah just like thought about the world and like like just like
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, but question things that other people took for granted. So like the one example I like to get is like cooties like when like when I was a child like I would like just go up to girls and try to like be friends with them and other kids to be like, why are you talking to a girl you're gonna have get cooties that I was just like, I remember I didn't like
00:21:53
Speaker
now I can make all these sophisticated arguments about, oh, you have no evidence for this, what is a kootie? Like, establish the reality, but it was just like, it just seems so clear to me that, oh, why would that be true? What is a kootie? I remember not being able to really understand why, but just instinctively
00:22:16
Speaker
Like all I could say was like, Oh, like what even is a Cootie? Like, just like, just instinctively to me, like the fact that like everyone said Cooties were a thing and all of that, like didn't change the fact that like, I, like, I just instinctively like questioned it because like, I didn't see any reason to believe it because other people did. Um, but that like, it's not like, I mean, other kids obviously like can't understand where I'm coming from. Like, I don't want to put, like, I don't, like, it's like, like it is what it is. Like I have no, like.
00:22:45
Speaker
Like I have not like fucking spiteful about, oh, this fucking six year old making fun of me now. But it was like, like, I would like try to explain like myself and like people would like shadow, shadow over me and like laugh at me and stuff. And like, that, like, that sort of just feeds into that feeling, right? Like, it's like, if you like, like when I'm, when people react in that way, it's like that causes, caused me to like that, like almost like the evidence for my anxieties, right? It almost like feeds.
00:23:13
Speaker
like that fire like telling me in the back of my head that like oh people don't actually like you they don't want you around and like the same thing for like um like for teachers like teachers like especially like i mean they don't like their authority being questioned right like i got kicked out of like three preschools like when i was young because like i wouldn't listen to what my teacher said unless they gave me reasons for it like i would just refuse like and like that wasn't even like like there are lots of situations now where like looking back like i understand like well i should have like done what they said
00:23:43
Speaker
But I remember like very vividly being like, why should I share things, bro? I am like, I want this shit. I'm going to keep it. So it's like, yeah, yeah. But it's like, just because like no one ever explained to me those things. So it's like, when like teachers respond to you like that, like when your friends, like when your peers respond to you like that. And then like, obviously like I grew up in like a pretty like conservative like Brown family. And like, they also like didn't like.
00:24:10
Speaker
they didn't really tolerate like, I guess, like me, like questioning like certain things that they valued or like, um, questioning certain things that they just said was, were true. Like they just expect you to obey, like that all kind of like contributed to this, like, just like background feeling that like, okay, like I can't like trust the world. Like, and that like, so when those worries started coming up, it was like, like, yeah, it just gave me an excuse to like, believe them and just like, yeah, fall into that.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. There's a lot there for sure. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. I think Freud would have a field day with me, bro. Yeah, no, totally. I think, but I think like what you said, like on some level, like a lot of these things are things that
00:25:10
Speaker
Every kid goes through on different levels. I think, I think the difference might be like, I think what happens is the social, there's these social norms that we kind of accept as reality, like cooties, right? For example, it's not staked in any.
00:25:28
Speaker
sort of reality. There's no truth to any of it. It's just a societal norm. I think as a kid, it's just, I mean, you could probably argue some aspects of misogyny, but
00:25:44
Speaker
And I'm sure some of those arguments are valid, but for a kid, it's like, if you don't buy into these social contracts that we have set up because you're thinking rationally, and in your case, you're thinking hyper-rationally, right? It's like, oh, unless there is a real reason,
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. But if you don't buy into it, you're kind of you're kind of you're kind of an outcast, right? Yeah, not accepted. And I think kids, I mean, kids learn this thing. I feel like it's so interesting because I feel like everyone is kind of initiated into that. Yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
Because no kid comes out of the womb saying cooties, right? They bought it at some point because someone made fun of them along the way. Oh yeah, 100%. So that's anxiety, right? That's like, oh shit. I don't want to be different. I'm just going to buy into the social norm. No, exactly. Yeah. So that's, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:27:00
Speaker
Yeah. And especially like, yeah, go ahead. No, you can continue. No, I mean, I was just going to say, especially like things like, um, questioning authority. I think it's, uh, I feel like people, teachers a lot of times, like don't necessarily do a good job of like,
00:27:29
Speaker
explaining why it is the way it is. I think with parents, teachers, like any form of authority questioning things beyond, and maybe this is because they don't have the answers to those questions. You get met with frustration, right? And that anger. And then as a kid, you don't know how to take that
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And that just creates this anxiety, right? Like, do you think that that makes sense? No, I definitely agree. Yeah, like, I think there's a lot like, you know, what you said, like, like what you're saying about like parents and teachers, like, I almost feel like that's where like, like, I guess, like, on one hand, like, there is a genuine aspect where like, when we talk about like, accepting these like, social norms, it's like,
00:28:24
Speaker
Like, like, there are like genuine limits to like what kids can understand and what they can learn, right? Like, even when I talk about like me, like questioning those things, like I didn't understand what I was doing, right? Like I didn't understand like, oh, like there are these like social norms that I'm questioning. It was just like this instinctive like reaction that like, oh, like why would I believe this thing? Like, I know like a lot of people like, like just
00:28:48
Speaker
except what their parents are saying is true, and that seems pretty consistent for most children, but for someone like me. I distinctly remember my parents telling me about Hinduism and stuff, and when I went to the temple,
00:29:03
Speaker
Like I would pray to like every God because I was always like, Oh, like everyone's parents like tell them like stuff. Like, why would my parents be any more correct about like stuff than like anyone else's parents? Like, I think like it, like, I guess on like one hand, like I don't want to like, like, I think it is like understandable, but at the same time, like I very much agree with you where, um, like I think that is reinforced because like, like,
Therapy and Self-Reflection
00:29:30
Speaker
I mean, like when they were children, like teachers and like some, our parents were like treated that way. So they see that as like, like, Oh, like that's how you just become like socialized. Like you need to like accept these sorts of things. And like, um, like it's just like also like, it's so exhausting to like, like, it's so much easier to do that versus like explaining every single thing.
00:29:50
Speaker
That makes sense. Like a lot of what you mentioned was kind of related to these social norms that were kind of put, that are shoved down our throats as we grow up and just told to accept or else made fun of, you know, and treated like an outcast. And that definitely causes
00:30:18
Speaker
a lot of anxiety. Were there were there other things as well that are maybe not related to social norms? I think like I think again like in terms of like work and like school anxiety like again sort of like I guess like very like high like overachieving like
00:30:47
Speaker
like that sort of like part of Brown culture, like put a lot of pressure on me, like even as like a child, like I very much like, I think like, like, yeah, like I just internalized that like, oh, like if everything wasn't done like perfectly, like that, like there's something wrong and I would be like, so worried about that. Like, I am like, like, and like, to like bring up another example from later, like I had distinct memories once of like, I was saying like intro to Spanish or some shit
00:31:14
Speaker
I have like a 99% because the class is like bullshit, right? And I remember my parents came in to like, pay future conferences and I was like, Oh, what can my child do to improve? And she literally looked at them and she was like, he has a 99% bro. What are you talking about? But yeah, I definitely think like there was a lot of like pressure on me, um, on that side of things. And then, um, again, like what I was saying from teachers, like there were definitely like teachers who like, were like less forgiving and like less understanding when you made
00:31:44
Speaker
mistakes like or like they sort of like saw themselves like oh like like they were like saw themselves I guess with as being like oh like like they're like telling it how it is and like being like harsh but in reality it's like I didn't end up like like like all that did was make me like more afraid about like opening up about when I had made mistakes and like opening up like like when I messed things up so yeah I mean definitely like
00:32:14
Speaker
There are definitely other aspects. Honestly, I think in a certain sense, all of the anxieties I have now, I can see fragments of them earlier on. In my childhood, the social anxiety, the work anxiety, just like anxiety about... The perfectionist anxiety. Yeah, perfectionism, insecurity, that's all there. It's just like, yeah.
00:32:43
Speaker
developments and like changes obviously like as I like understand more about myself like it takes like new forms and like them like as I've like worked to improve myself and like worked to like be better like like I almost feel like it like like I'll talk about this more later but I almost feel like as I learn more and as I work on my anxiety it's like it finds new ways to like hide from me like while I'm trying to like track it down and like trying to like notice like when am I like stressing out over something when I shouldn't be like
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah, but at its core, it is fundamentally the same worries, the same insecurities. As I change as a person, it changes along with me. Yeah, so I guess related to that, when did you realize that you had anxiety? I think for me, it was definitely pretty late.
00:33:43
Speaker
Because it started so early, I've talked to people, I've asked other people the same question, and a lot of times they talk to me about going to middle school for the first time and having that anxiety be there in a way that it wasn't when they were in elementary school. So it sticks out to them very prominently.
00:34:05
Speaker
But I feel like for me, because it's always been there as far back as I can think, it took me a long time to recognize that as not just a part of my personality and not just who I was. Because of exactly the things I said earlier, thinking that introversion was a part of my personality and not anxiety. I think that another big thing is that anxiety is pretty
00:34:31
Speaker
associated with like other like mental health struggles. So like, depression was the big one for me. Like, I think there was a lot of like, like when I worried so much about like, whether other people wanted me around, like when I like isolated myself so much and like catch myself, like, I think like, self hatred, like can grow very easily from that ground. Like it's very easy
00:34:56
Speaker
like, if you're constantly insecure, like, if you're constantly worried, like, oh, am I gonna do well enough? Like, oh, like, do people actually want me around? Like, it's very easy to turn from worrying, do people want me around, to feeling like a burden, right? Feeling like, oh, like, these may, like, what if these people don't want me around? And so I'm forcing them to hang out with me. It's very easy for that to turn, for that, at least in my case, for that to turn into, like, self-hatred.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think for a long time, like I almost like saw it as more like depression. Um, and so like, yeah, yeah. Like it, like, honestly, like I wouldn't say I fully understood like how like deep my anxiety was like until like junior year of college. Like, I think that's when I was like really like during quarantine, like I was alone with myself. And I think like that sort of like forced me kind of.
00:35:55
Speaker
to like, like, I don't know, like, it's like I sort of reached a fracture point where I realized like how much, how much weight I was carrying like on my shoulders and like how much was hanging over me. And like, even at that point, like, again, like there is that part of me that thought it was depression. And like, I think like, it's almost been like, like, I think I worked, like I started off like working on like my self-worth and like my self-confidence a lot. And I think like,
00:36:24
Speaker
as I did that I realized it sort of made me realize like how much fear there were actually was driving that and that's when I really started to like understand and like like truly like accept like okay like you like you do have this problem like yeah it's not just who you are like you don't have to be and like you don't want to be that person like you don't need to like
00:36:48
Speaker
think this, it feel like this is inevitable or like, like use it as an, use the fact that that's your personality to like feed into that and like use it as an excuse to avoid things. Like that's, I think when I really started like dealing with it as anxiety. Is that also around the time when you started therapy? Yeah, yeah. I, I think therapy like, yeah, therapy is the reason why like, and again, like I'll talk about this more later, but
00:37:17
Speaker
Like, it was honestly, like, life-changing for me. Like, again, to go from a place where I didn't even realize, like, how stressed I was, like, you know, like, it's like I felt like I had been, like, carrying around, like, a ball and chain my entire life. And, like, I had never, like, noticed the weight of what I was dragging around. And, like, the sort of, like, the imprints and, like, the scars it was leaving on me because, like, it had just become, like, so normal.
00:37:46
Speaker
And getting out of that through therapy, it was honestly changing. Yeah. That makes sense. I'm glad that you realized when you did and you've been able to shed some of that weight. I think it's evident. I see it in you and it's like...
00:38:16
Speaker
You feel lighter and you feel happier. I wanted to ask about, um, you mentioned.
00:38:36
Speaker
fear of death, um, like what, what that was like, like what that was for. Um, cause I, I also, I definitely had a fear of death. Like I think, I think I've had it my whole life. Um, and I think it's influenced like a lot of like my, just my psychology of like what I need. Um,
00:39:06
Speaker
And so, but it wasn't, it wasn't like that. Like it wasn't like I was staying awake at night, terrified that I wouldn't wake up. So I wanted to ask about that, like what that was like and like how you came out of that. Yeah.
00:39:23
Speaker
Honestly, that's that's interesting. I always thought that like that was something most people like felt later in life But if you also also had that experience I just like I mean I had like an awareness of like at least an idea of like what death was and like like what I've heard from like other people is like I don't know like
00:39:48
Speaker
Like for me, it was never that that was wasn't on the table. Like there was always a part of me that was like just terrified of that idea of just like the fact that I could die and the fact that like
00:40:01
Speaker
I don't know if I can remember if I knew that it was inevitable, but yeah, I mean, I just remember this like profound fear of like losing consciousness forever. Like I would literally like stay awake at night because I was afraid like when I was asleep, like I would just never wake up. Like that idea of just like losing yourself forever and like not even being able to recognize it to a certain extent. Like, like, yeah, that's just always been terrifying to me.
00:40:28
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think I, my fear of death, I guess like now that I think about it a little bit more. Yeah, I guess for me, the fear of death, mortality was less to do with myself and more to do with everyone around me.
00:40:44
Speaker
So the thought that like, the thought that like my parents would die one day would, that would keep me up. Yeah. That would keep me up at night. That would, and I don't even know why, like.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know where it came from exactly, but that was something that I thought about quite a lot, like my parents, my friends, anyone in my life that I loved just knowing that they would die and I would have to live after that. That was terrifying. I got you.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yeah, for as long as I can remember. And I would think about it at night that I think that was definitely a cause of insomnia for me. So yeah, I guess fear of death, but experienced it in a very different way than you did. Yeah, I mean, I think that might have been a part of it for me too. I can't remember, honestly, I just think that like, I don't know, like, even now, like, if I really
00:41:50
Speaker
think about what it would mean to like die and like lose consciousness forever like that can fucking like send me into a panic like I just think like that feeling of a fear like thinking about myself was like so like just like extremely like strong that it's like burned into my memory like now that now that you've like mentioned that like I pretty sure I also thought about that in terms of like my friends and like people I cared about and yeah but
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah. How do you feel like, uh, you said you feel like it's sort of like shaped your life, like ever since, right? Like, how do you feel like it's done that? So I think for myself, so, I mean, now that I said like for myself, I, it was not a fear. It was not a fear of dying, but like,
00:42:38
Speaker
a fear of growing old, I guess. So different. That has shaped my life a lot and the things that I've done. This kind of idea of like, oh shit, life is going to be over once I hit 30 and I have to do so many things, right? And so I'd be stressed about like knocking out all the life things that I wanted to do, the adventures and
00:43:02
Speaker
That's why I like that that's like a guy is like a hundred like 90% of the reason why I was always on in college and High school. I was always like
00:43:15
Speaker
I couldn't sit still. You couldn't find me just chilling on any evening. I would be out somewhere seeing something or doing something. Yeah. No, no. I mean, that makes sense. Why 30 specifically? That's so young. That's like a third of your life, bro. I know. But I just had this idea of the fun times are going to be over, then it's all going to be responsibilities from then out.
00:43:45
Speaker
Like, yeah, I would have, in terms of time, I would have a good chunk of my life left, but because of responsibilities, like, it's like time to grow up, you know, and not be fun. Like that was the idea that I had. I do feel very differently about that now.
00:44:05
Speaker
And I think over the last couple of years, I've really done a lot of work to undo that. And yeah, I feel like I'm in a much better place with that. Like you, like I don't need to go out. Like you'll see me some weekends just chilling at home and like staying in and like enjoying it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's, I think that's good. Yeah. Because like, I feel the same way. Like even now, like it's really hard for me to like,
00:44:33
Speaker
Like even if I'm like at home, like I feel like there's always this like urge of like, Oh, like you should be like, like thinking about, uh, like doing chores around the apartment or like, like, I mean, you, you've seen it yourself. Like how, how often I sit on the couch and just like watch TV, right? Like it's given myself that like set aside time to just like stop, like unwind. Like I've definitely felt the same way. Yeah. It's a skill honestly. Like, yeah. Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
I've been trying to get back into video games. I used to play them shits for six hours a day. I could just keep going. After half an hour, I had so many things to do. Being able to listen to yourself and act on what you're feeling instead of what you think you should be doing is so hard.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, for me, like the turning point was like, in my relationship, like I realized my last, I was stressing out my partner. Yeah.
00:45:44
Speaker
Like I realized, I saw it like it was stressing out my partner and I was like, I don't want to, why do I want to be this on? Like I don't. And then I started questioning like, what is this? Why is it like this for me? Because she was good at like listening to herself and knowing when she needed an in day.
00:46:04
Speaker
And I would just like if we didn't if if we didn't hadn't gone out by like four or five p.m. On a Saturday like I would get antsy I would get frustrated yeah, yeah, so So I'd realized that and that's kind of when I started to question and undo those things. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, give some perspective. Yeah, totally. Yeah
00:46:34
Speaker
Let's go back to the topic though. I mean, it's related, right? Yeah. It is. It is. It is related for sure. I was actually going to say, like, I feel like one of the biggest things about like anxiety, like mentally is like you can, you can think like, you can tell yourselves like all of like the,
00:46:53
Speaker
like logical reasoning you, you can about like how it's like irrational to like be that like stress or we're like worried about something and like you, like you can tie yourself in like, like you can tie your thought in knots, like thinking about that, but that's not going to change the fact that like you're good. You're worrying about it. Like.
00:47:11
Speaker
that's not going to make like the worry like go away anymore. And like, I feel like I can almost feed it sometimes where it's like, I use like worrying. I use like trying to like think something through as an excuse to almost like dwell on it and just like, yeah, continuous, continue just like going in circles. Yeah. Yeah. So here, um, so like how, so you mentioned like, you remember feeling this anxiety, but how did it kind of,
00:47:42
Speaker
materialized in your life. Like how did, how did you feel it in what ways? Yeah. Yeah. So I think for me, one of the biggest parts of anxiety is the physical symptoms. And I feel like that's something that's one of the reasons why it took me so long to even realize I was anxious in the first place. Cause it's hard to understand what's going on. Like, like, cause I feel like those aspects are so
00:48:10
Speaker
When we talk about anxiety, we usually don't focus on those parts because the explicit worries and fears are so much more prominent of an aspect if you're directly worried about something and you're constantly thinking about it. But at least for me, one of the biggest ways it manifests is through those physical aspects. So I remember back in
00:48:36
Speaker
Like even now sometimes, but like, especially like back in high school, I would just like have these like pounding headaches randomly. And like, I would just like wake up every day and I would just like feel exhausted and I would just like get be so tired and I would like try to load up on caffeine, which was not in retrospect the right approach. But, um, yeah, like I would just be like, so confused on like why I was so fatigued all the time. And like to the extent where I thought like, Oh, do I have like apnea or something? Like maybe I have some sort of like sleep disorder, but like.
00:49:06
Speaker
Two, like, for something like that, like, you never even think of that something like that could be caused by anxiety, that kind of like physical exhaustion. But when your body is in fine play all the time, and it's just like, you're constantly worried about things, like constantly like stressed out about like everyday life, like that kind of like damage just accumulates in your body, like without you even realizing it, like, yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. Um, that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just, just to go down the list, I guess, like, uh, I also get like, like there are times where like, when I've been really anxious, I've had like stark, sharp, like stomach pains, like fucking like stabbing feeling and like, like, uh, just like indigestion, things like that. Yeah.
00:50:00
Speaker
Like I feel like aspects like that usually aren't emphasized because it's like, if you're anxious about something and you start having like a headache or you start like.
00:50:10
Speaker
your muscles start feeling sore or you start feeling tired. Like it's so easy to be like, Oh, maybe I didn't sleep well last night. Cause it's like, how do you even distinguish between like, Oh, I was stayed up all night, like tossing and turning because I was worrying about something. So I didn't sleep well. And Oh, like I'm just like physically so exhausted from like having like that stress like constantly. So like that's why I'm like, that's why I feel tired right now.
00:50:32
Speaker
or like when you have like indigestion it's so easy to be like oh like i must have eaten something bad yesterday like i wasn't like focusing on myself um but yeah like when in reality like there are times i feel like terrible and then like i just like it's really hard for me to like get out of bed like i just feel so exhausted like i'm like struggling to like keep my eyes open and it's like um like i just feel like fatigued throughout the day and then like after i spend some time like
00:51:01
Speaker
like thinking it through or I like get past like whatever I'm like stressed out about like, like I suddenly like feel so much better. And like, I suddenly feel like I have all this energy again. And I'm just like, yeah, like
00:51:14
Speaker
It took me a long time to like recognize the connection between those. And I feel like so much of like that physical aspect contributes to the mental part too.
Managing Anxiety
00:51:24
Speaker
Because it's like, if you have like a migraine or if you're having like, like constant like tension and fatigue, it's like that's going to impair like how well you can like do like at school or like that's going to impact like how often like you can interact with people and like how like
00:51:41
Speaker
yeah like how well you can like articulate yourself and it's like that feeds into the anxiety and it's almost like proof to yourself like oh like how do i trust myself like when i'm like messing all of these things up and like when like you do to a certain extent like perform worse like when you're anxious so yeah yeah i mean that makes sense like you need a lot of energy to kind of do those everyday life things yeah um
00:52:08
Speaker
you know, dealing with, you know, friends and school and family, all of those things take like, you know, some mental capacity. And if you're using it all, just fighting the anxieties and, you know, all the stuff that's going on in your head, like, um,
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah. And recovering from those physical manifestations, like you're saying, like that just, that becomes a negative feedback loop and it's just not a good place to be in. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:52:42
Speaker
So have you, have you noticed, um, as you went through the process of understanding that linkage and processing your anxieties, have you noticed that those physical manifestations are, have gotten less frequent or more mild? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Like that's like, honestly, like, I don't know if it's like one of the biggest parts, um,
00:53:12
Speaker
I would say like a huge part is just like now like like to be honest like I feel like now that I've dealt with my anxiety like when I described it earlier like I felt like I had like a ball and chain like around my ankle like there is like a real sense in which like just like physically I feel like I have this energy and this lightness that like
00:53:36
Speaker
Like I would only ever have like at like my very best moments like when I wasn't anxious and like Like yeah, I just feel like so much more rested like I have like like I have like so much fewer headaches like Yeah, yeah, I don't like and it's it's so I Don't know. It's so strange because like if your body is tense like a lot of times you can tell that it's doing that and but like
00:54:05
Speaker
Like if you're like, a lot of times like headaches are just caused because we're tensing our jaw or we're like, we're like tensing the muscles in our head. Um, and it's like, no, even if you know that, like that doesn't mean you can control that those muscles that doesn't mean you can stop yourself from like relaxing. And it's sort of like part of the process of like, uh, like managing anxiety and like getting past it, like for me was sort of, uh, like
00:54:30
Speaker
being able to accept things like those and like the negative feelings and then like sort of like, like by like mentally, like by like handling it mentally and like sort of like reaching a level of like acceptance, like that is what you need to do to like sort of like relieve the physical symptoms. That was very clearly explained. That makes sense. And would you say like,
00:55:00
Speaker
Would you say like, in your view, is it, are there two kind of aspects to it where it's like the physical manifestations and then is it, and then that like, is it like a voice in your head? That's like saying things that are like, yeah, the mental part. Is it, is it, does it feel like a voice in your head? Yeah, it feels like a voice in my head, but it feels like my voice. Like there's no clear distinction where it's like,
00:55:29
Speaker
Like they're all your thoughts, right? Like it's all a part of you. So it's like, yeah, there definitely is like, like almost like at this point, sometimes like when I'm like wrestling with my anxiety, like it almost like literally feels like I'm just like, like there's like that voice in my head that's like anxious. And then it's like, I sort of have to like control that or like, sometimes I have to like, just push it away and be like, okay, like, like
00:55:52
Speaker
sometimes like I can just tell myself like no like that's just exaggerating how bad things are like like just give myself and sort of like drown out that voice and then other times sometimes like I need to just like shut it off and be like okay like if I try and engage with it like it's just gonna like make the worry worse so I need to just like accept that it's gonna that it's gonna be there and accept that it's obviously shitty that it's there but at the same time like you like there's a level where yeah you just have to accept that that voice is there
00:56:20
Speaker
So sometimes it's kind of like, it's like handling it by not handling it. Yeah. Right. It's like, yeah. Just taking the focus off of it. Exactly. Yeah. Like that's a big part of, uh, like meditation, like at least from how I understand and like my experiences with like a mindfulness meditation for like anxiety is just like being able to like. Yeah. Just like being able to accept that, like, okay, like my mind, mind's going to like wander. Like I'm like, I'm going to have like all of these anxious thoughts. I'm going to have like.
00:56:51
Speaker
all of that, but at the same time, like you, like, it's like the worry all you want about it or like, it's like, there's fundamentally like nothing you can do and you just need to be able to like accept it and like divert your attention away from it. Yeah.
00:57:11
Speaker
That makes sense. It's kind of like, I mean, for me, when I have those kinds of thoughts and stuff, I think there's two things that I've noticed. Like one is like, I tend to, when I do have those thoughts, like catch myself, but also like, kind of,
00:57:34
Speaker
reprimand myself, you know what I mean? Like punish myself for having those thoughts and kind of have this like negative voice in my head. It's like, you piece of shit. Like, why are you thinking about this again? No, I feel you. Yeah. That's actually, uh, that's actually like a thing for, uh, in for a certain form of anxiety, um, where you essentially like, you feel like, or I know,
00:58:02
Speaker
Different forms of anxiety is a wrong way of saying it, but it's sort of like a coping mechanism where I do the same thing where you sort of beat yourself up about thinking something that's irrational or having an anxious thought because there's that other part of you that knows that it's irrational and knows that there's nothing to worry about.
00:58:23
Speaker
And like it's like I think like that's a huge part of like getting past like mental illness in general is just having that kind of grace and just like for being able to like forgive yourself for those things instead of like beating yourself up but uh yeah that's there's actually been research that shows that uh like that idea of
00:58:43
Speaker
of thought suppression actually causes those thoughts that you're worried about to get worse. The more you try and repress to them, the more significance you're almost giving them in your mind, right? Versus if you just have the thought and you're like, oh, it's just like a passing tab. It's like taboo, right? Yeah, exactly. So there's a special place in your head for things like that? Exactly. Yeah.
00:59:08
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, like there is like an aspect where it's almost like obsessive where it's like, you, there's this like urge, like compulsion to like, just like stop yourself. That like just feeds into it. And like, again, like that, that's not easy. Like it's a lot easier said than done sometimes to like stop yourself from doing that. Like, especially when you're already like so mentally and physically exhausted from the anxiety itself.
00:59:32
Speaker
Yeah, totally. No, I mean, it's it kind of goes back to like, just the concept of loving yourself, right? Like understanding where you are and treating yourself like you would treat your best friend kind of situation. Yeah. No, that's actually a Yeah, I have this, uh,
00:59:54
Speaker
um like in therapy like they gave me this workbook called the mindful self-compassion workbook and i honestly recommend it to like anyone listening who like struggles with that but um yeah it's exactly about that idea where like the in order to like the biggest thing you have to do to like
01:00:12
Speaker
like or the most helpful thing you can do is to just like love yourself and like and I feel like as someone like who's anxious like I had always like like that idea of like self-love it's so easy to like tear it apart and like oh like that's like narcissistic like why like I don't need to like love myself like I care about myself like things like that but like yeah just being able to like you said like love yourself like you love a friend like it's not about like giving yourself like like letting yourself get away with anything or
01:00:42
Speaker
something like that like it's just about genuinely treating yourself with like the same compassion that you would give to someone that you love where it's like like you wouldn't like
01:00:52
Speaker
like beat up someone who you care about who was like feeling shitty or like, yeah, like even with like, even if they like hurt you in some way, like, you're not gonna like, just like lash out and like yell at them and like make them feel like terrible about themselves. So why do that to yourself, you know, like, yeah, you go and say that it's okay, you know, yeah, it'd be okay. Yeah. And it's like, like, it's literally like when it started, like, I almost had to like imagine like, like,
01:01:20
Speaker
Like I almost had to feel like I would, it almost felt like I was talking to myself, like being like, Oh, like you don't have to worry about this. Like there's nothing wrong. Like it's okay. Like, like you did your best, but it feels so awkward. Like, especially as someone who is so used to like, just, just like instinctively, like just lashing out at myself and like, like just being aggressive and being like, Oh, like I want to like,
01:01:46
Speaker
Like, oh, like I'm so like stupid for doing that. Like I want to destroy that part of me that's like responsible for like all of my flaws and all of my weaknesses. But in reality, like that's not healthy. Like it's the same way that like real anger is when it's directed at a person, right? Like if like someone doesn't acknowledge that they hurt you, like all your anger is going to do is like damage yourself. And it's like you, like the first step on that path is being able to like let go and being able to like forgive.
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah. No, I'm on that journey. I'm trying to love myself more and treat myself better in that way instead of having a very negative reaction towards myself. Yeah, I got you. I will have to check that out. Yeah. That book that you recommended, what was it called? Mindful Self-Compassion Workbook.
01:02:40
Speaker
Okay. I'm going to write that down. No, I highly recommend it. Yeah. Like it's, it's not like a hard read or anything. Like it's very straightforward. And like when I started reading it, like I remember I was like a few pages in and like even like getting past the intro, like shit had me like cheering up. Like, like I remember like the intro to the book, like the author is straight up like.
01:03:03
Speaker
They're like, they raised a child with like autism, and like they talk about like, they're just like openly about like, like obviously you're going to have that resentment, there's going to be a part of you that like when they're throwing a tantrum and like the grocery aisle is like, so like angry at them and like, like, just like
01:03:19
Speaker
Like, like they even talk like openly about like, like things that are like, it's, it's almost hard for me to say, like, even though I'm not the one with it, but like they talk about like wish, like wishing they had like a child that wasn't like that, like having like a normal child, but
01:03:34
Speaker
you need to be able to like accept those thoughts to understand, like, yeah, like just being able to see someone else do that, like to a thought that's like so damaging, but at the same time, like I totally understand where they're coming from, right? I can give them that empathy. So like, why not give that same empathy to myself? Like, yeah, that book is like, amazing.
01:03:59
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah. People pick this book. It feels life changing. Definitely not. Yeah. User affiliate link in the description. So does it ever get like, does it ever get like randomly
01:04:24
Speaker
really bad like it was before? Oh, 100%. Okay. So there are still days where it's like, Oh God, like, why am I here again? Yeah, okay. And like, that's like another big thing you need to get over or not get over. I mean, you like, that's the thing with all of this, right? Like, there's never going to be a moment where you're perfect. There's never going to be a moment you don't like that. You'll never lash out at yourself again, that you'll never like, be hurtful towards yourself. And you'll never like,
01:04:50
Speaker
worry about something that retrospect seems so stupid and you tell yourself like, Oh, like I, like I've worried, like I've dealt with that, like thought so many times in the past. Like, why did I like given to it this time? Like backsliding, like, like you're that, that part like that.
01:05:10
Speaker
The anxiety, that's honestly one of the most difficult things to accept about mental illness is to accept that yes, this is an illness. This is something that I'm going to have to deal with for the rest of my life. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't get better. That doesn't mean that every day isn't easier. And those days when it is really bad, it's so much easier to cope with it and to
01:05:39
Speaker
Like sometimes it's really bad and like I can like throughout the day, like remind myself and like just like use some of those like techniques I've picked up in therapy to like bring my anxiety down to a regular level. And then other times I can't, but at the same time, like I can stay grounded in the fact that like this, this feeling is just temporary.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like that's one of the biggest things I had to get. That's like one of the biggest hurdles. Like when you really start seeing yourself approving in therapy is like just feeling so amazing and feeling so good about yourself. And then having that all crash back down, like it almost feels like even worse because like you're getting past some of those unhealthy coping mechanisms, like.
01:06:18
Speaker
You like, again, like you feel so good for so long that like going back to like that place, like you're just like, is like, was that all a fluke? Like, am I going to be here forever again? Like, yeah. Yeah. Like it getting over that is definitely a struggle. That makes sense. I've heard that before the concept of.
01:06:41
Speaker
that your anxieties and kind of these unhealthy coping mechanisms and stuff like that, they stay with you. It's not that you become magically free of them. They stay with you. You learn how to manage them. And they, in turn, get less frequent. And your life as a whole improves. Yeah. And it's not just that. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Were you saying something?
01:07:11
Speaker
No, I was saying, did that fact that that's what the reality is, did that discourage you in the beginning? Because I've noticed that it has discouraged me. That fact kind of makes me sad.
01:07:33
Speaker
like knowing that the things that I'm dealing with now, I will probably be dealing with them forever, right? In some way. So it feels like, oh God, I wish I could just be free of all this. If I can never be free of all this, why am I working so hard towards bettering myself?
01:08:03
Speaker
because it's tough. It's hard to work on yourself and it takes so much mental effort to do those things. Yeah. No, that's a huge part of it. You feel like you've been struggling so hard to push this boulder up a hill and then to watch it just fucking tumble back down and like fucking break apart, hit a wall and fall apart into pieces. It's like, yeah, it's heartbreaking.
01:08:30
Speaker
Are we supposed to keep doing it? Is that just a law? I'm just trying to understand how to think about these things. Are we morally compelled to do that? No, that's the thing. Every time you do that, it gets a little bit easier to roll the boulder up the hill the next time.
01:09:00
Speaker
Like you overall, like the general trend is like downwards. Like it's not just that like it's less frequent. Like my anxiety definitely is like, like also less intense that it was like back when I, like before I started therapy. Right. Yeah. But it is definitely like, yeah, pretty disheartening. Like, especially like when I first went to therapy, like I was just so uncomfortable, like, especially like talking about some of those topics. So with someone you don't know that well, like it's so like.
01:09:30
Speaker
Like it's so easy to like get in your thoughts about like feeling judged. And then it's like, when things don't go well, like I wouldn't say that that's something that like consciously, like, like I didn't, I didn't think that about it in terms of where it's like, Oh, like what's the, like, Oh, if it's just going to come back, what's the point? But for me, like, I guess that's like a, I lost my train of thought. Let me, let me rephrase that. Um, it's more like.
01:10:02
Speaker
It's, for me, it was more like this hopelessness of like, Oh, like, like, am I, I'm never going to get better. Like a lot of confidence in myself more than anything, but that's just like a different manifestation of the same feeling fundamentally, you know, of like putting in that much effort, seeing it all crash down and just like tearing your hands up and being like, yeah, like what's, what's the use like anymore? No, that's definitely like, actually, like I've been in therapy for like, I think like more than three years at this point and like,
01:10:32
Speaker
For that first year, maybe in a year and a half, there were months I didn't go to therapy because I would just be like, oh, what's the point? It was so uncomfortable. I would just avoid it without even really understanding why. And it's finally at a point now where I go in consistently every week. But even that, that's not something that's easy and that's not something that necessarily comes natural. I know a lot of people who
01:10:57
Speaker
got disheartened. Like, first of all, it's a fucking process just to find someone that you clicked with, right? Like I've been with so many like shitty therapists that have just made me feel worse. And it's like, even when you find someone who clicks with you, like it's inherently like uncomfortable and like, it's like you, like every time you go, you have to consciously make the decision, right? Like there's no one that's going to force you to like go to therapy. Like you just need to like,
01:11:21
Speaker
Like, yeah, like it's so hard sometimes to like tell yourself that and like, it's literally the gym. Yeah. It's a mental gym. The mental gym, dude. Uh, to force yourself to do it. Yeah. Be on going there and being comfortable. No, a hundred percent. I very much do consider it like very similar to like, like, like physical activity is like going to the gym and like exercising. Like I often think about it like.
01:11:50
Speaker
like it's like the techniques you pick up from like therapy or like it's like form like that you pick up like while swimming it's like you can't like like there's nothing anyone can like tell you like there aren't like particular beliefs that you learn or anything like that that you can just like sort of like get from a book and like understand it's almost just like learning these mental techniques to like relax yourself and like building up that mental strength to be able to like deal with those thoughts like yeah like i very much consider like
01:12:19
Speaker
Like that mental part, like, yeah, like almost like a physical like activity. I mean, okay. This is, I've been wanting to bring this up, but like, isn't it crazy that we don't teach kids this, these things, like, isn't it like, isn't it, it boggles my mind just thinking about the fact that we don't teach a kid how to deal with anger.
Emotional Intelligence and Cultural Critique
01:12:42
Speaker
or how to deal with sadness or jealousy or like any of these feelings that are like not happy and happiness and joy, right? Like we don't teach a kid how to deal with these things in school or at home and it's like
01:13:02
Speaker
Of course. And then we wonder why people need therapy. Yeah, of course we need therapy. Like, yeah. Because when these feelings start, yeah, we have no clue how to deal with them. Yeah, not all. Yeah. Now, how does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, that's the it's like,
01:13:23
Speaker
It's like weird to think about, but like all of this, a lot of this stuff is like so recent, right? Like we've, we've, we still barely understand how the mind works. Like how to like regulate yourself like emotionally. Like, yeah, like it's yeah. Like there, there's so much to learn. Yeah.
01:13:43
Speaker
I don't even think it's that complicated, right? Like I think a lot of these things people have known for hundreds of years. I'm not talking about like the complexities of the idea and stuff like that, but just simple things like hey, when you feel anger,
01:13:59
Speaker
you need to channel it the right way, right? Like when you feel frustration, like you talk about your feelings, you don't... I mean, I guess like, I guess you teach people like, you teach kids like, hey, you don't hit... I feel like they don't really explain why you don't hit people. Like what to do instead. I mean, I feel that considering what I said earlier. Yeah. No, it's definitely like, I think there is like almost like,
01:14:30
Speaker
they're still like like they're like parents who are like oh like i don't want like schools like intruding on how i like teach my children and like yeah like like you said like there is like definitely a tiny bit of that and like how we teach children like but it's definitely like insane that yeah like it's not more like normalized and it's not like more like common yeah anger is one thing bro but sadness sadness is like
01:14:58
Speaker
I feel like the only response I've heard to sadness is don't be sad. Don't be sad and don't cry. I've heard that so many times. Don't cry. Why are you crying?
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's unhealthy and I think the public view on that is changing. People are more okay with people crying, especially like guys crying and like little boys crying and stuff.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah. In general, like we still don't tell kids that it's okay to be sad. Yeah. And like, yeah, definitely. Like what you're feeling is natural and yeah. Yeah. So that it doesn't turn into something like anger. Right. Cause that's what turns into anger. It's like, why the hell am I sad? Let me go punch something. Oh yeah. Right. Like this thing is responsible for me feeling bad. So I'm like, yeah, because I mean, it's so, it's so much like, it's so much like,
01:16:01
Speaker
Like it feels so much better to be angry than to be like in real like grief. Like it's so much harder to like truly like accept like that kind of pain and like weakness like comes in sadness. Yeah, I definitely agree. Um, and I think that's like, uh, like I almost feel like that's part of the reason why is the fact that like we see those as like bad emotions. They're like negative emotions and like inherently they are right? Like no one wants to be like sad, but
01:16:29
Speaker
So I almost feel like, it's almost like what I was saying, or what we were talking about with the thought suppression, where it's like instinctively we want to tell people, oh, just ignore those thoughts, the negative things. And it's almost like what people want to do in everyday life to a certain extent is just a lot of times avoid their problems, avoid dealing with it.
01:16:57
Speaker
Like directly. And I think that's where like those unhealthy coping mechanisms come from too. Right. Like when you have those feelings inside, when you have like sometimes like guilt and shame about even having those feelings in the first place, because no one's ever told you like, Oh, this is natural to feel like, Oh, like this is healthy. Like this is okay. Like everyone's going to like have these feelings sometimes. Like you just like.
01:17:20
Speaker
want to like, you don't have any like healthy way to like engage with those feelings. It's just like, yeah, you get angry because like someone makes you feel sad. So you're like, okay, I'm just going to like express this to like stop myself and like, like hurt this thing that I don't, that I feel like is responsible for my sadness. Yeah. Because like, it's sort of like you're hoping that will make it go away when in reality, like that's not like all that's going to do is like make the pain worse.
01:17:49
Speaker
expression of that actual emotion is like, is key, right? Like just, just be how you're feeling. And it's like,
01:18:00
Speaker
And it won't fester. It won't fester. People don't embrace the negative. Just like you said, they don't embrace the so-called negative feelings. This is kind of like tying two things together that we talked about already. But there's a show on Netflix called Midnight Gospel, right? We've seen a few episodes. So the last episode of that series,
01:18:27
Speaker
And for those who don't know, Midnight Gospel is actually a podcast called the Duncan Trussell Family Hour. And they've taken snippets of that and turned it into a show and overlaid some animations on it. It's really, really good. I highly recommend it. But the last episode of that series is kind of an interview of Duncan with his mom, who has cancer. And she's dying. It's terminal.
01:18:55
Speaker
And so he interviews her and he's just so mad. He's so mad at the world, like, because he's so sad that his mom is dying. Right. And so they so that so he's like, he's like really mad. He's like his mom's like just being like, hey, Duncan, it's OK. Like it's OK. Like everyone's time comes. Like, you know, all of these things. Right. Like I will always be with you. Like, like all of these things. Right.
01:19:25
Speaker
And he's just mad and he's unable to kind of come to terms with it, right? He's like, what am I supposed to do when you're gone? Yeah. What am I supposed to do? And she's like, you're supposed to cry. You're supposed to feel that grief. Yeah. And like cry. I feel like people like another thing I've heard is like.
01:19:46
Speaker
When when when people are sad or anxious or like any of these things like meditate right like meditate as in like Meditations of the answer to not feel that anymore Yeah, right Yeah, it's like this like crazy idea of some dude who like isn't fazed by any of these things these big life things like oh a breakup or a
01:20:08
Speaker
person dying or like any sad thing happening. I think the idea is not that that sad thing won't evoke sadness inside you anymore, right? Like you're supposed to feel those things. Yeah, no, definitely. Like that seems like... That's the only way to process it. That's the only way to move forward and still be whole.
01:20:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost like, yeah, like I feel like culturally, like less so again, but it's like that idea of being like collected in all situations. Like the idea of like being emotional is like seen as a bad thing when like in reality, like if someone you care about dies and like you didn't react with sadness, like that's like so fucked up. Like that's like, that is so unhealthy. Like if I thought, if I met someone like that, like there's no reason for us to like feel that way, but yeah.
01:20:59
Speaker
We all just need to internalize this idea to embrace your sadness and be okay with it and cherish it and not push it away.
01:21:11
Speaker
There's actually like, I don't know if you want to include this or not, I'm getting a little philosophical here, but there's like a theory that essentially the reason why that is such a thing culturally, is like, so back in the ancient Greeks there were a lot of thinkers who felt like being in touch with their emotions was a good thing, and like,
01:21:31
Speaker
Aristotle talks about how the ideal person is someone who can feel their emotions and can engage with them, but at the same time isn't controlled by them. Obviously isn't just driven to do random, do anything in response to their emotions. And it's almost like as
01:21:51
Speaker
Christianity and forms of religion came up, there was more and more of this idea that the mind is pure and superior, but the body and emotion is something bad. And the more rational, the further you can get away from your feelings, the closer you'll get to the truth and to what's rationality.
01:22:12
Speaker
yeah like just like like perfection so it's like i almost feel like it's an extension of like that idea where it's like like emotions are seen as something like toxic something that's like covering up like the truth about the world or like the truth about ourselves when in reality like that our feelings are like how we engage with the world the things that like draw us back to the world and like make us the most interested and like the most focused on the things we care about so
01:22:37
Speaker
Yeah. Otherwise, like it'd just be like being a machine, right? Yeah, exactly. And like, what even is the point then at that point? Like you asked, yeah, like you're literally just doing everything by like logical axioms. Yeah. And where the hell did this thing about men being rational come came from? Like men being rational and women acting on feelings. Like I.
Personal Growth and Coping Mechanisms
01:23:00
Speaker
like that that has not been true in my experience like some of the most irrational the people that i see here oh yeah that's the thing it's like people will say that shit but everyone who says that says that is not emotionless it's just the only emotion they'll ever express is anger because they've told themselves that it's bad to be emotional so they just get pissed at anything for coming
01:23:24
Speaker
So coming back to anxiety, how is it now? Do you think, does it impact your day-to-day? Yeah, I mean, it still definitely impacts my day-to-day. Even right now, I'm definitely anxious. Especially when we first started, I was having jaw pain and a bit of a headache just from clenching my jaw. I am on call, so that's also another reason why I'm really anxious. Obviously, dealing with this
01:23:52
Speaker
It's still uncomfortable to engage with these feelings directly sometimes. It's still something that impacts my daily life. Again, it's just less. Even when it does impact my life, I remember in the past there were times when I was starting to deal with my anxiety.
01:24:13
Speaker
my anxiety would be so overwhelming that it was like I would almost like use that as an excuse to like avoid situations I was anxious about because like I would start getting like this massive headache like I would start feeling like tense and like now that I almost knew those are symptoms of anxiety like I would use that like as a like reason to avoid like situations and like now like I'm much
01:24:33
Speaker
like better able to ground myself and be like okay like you know you're anxious about this but like once you get into it like you're gonna enjoy your time i see like you're gonna be able i'm gonna be able to like do like the things that i want to do and it's like even if like i'm not at 100 like yeah i can have like
01:24:48
Speaker
like i'm definitely like self-conscious about right now about like oh am i like as articulate as i was like earlier and like oh am i like not explaining myself like properly and is the way i'm like talking like choppy like the way i'm talking is like probably choppier than it was earlier but i'm able to like just settle that part of my mind and be like
01:25:09
Speaker
All you can do is try your best. And it's like, if I don't, if I use that as an excuse to avoid things like this, all it's gonna do is make it even harder the next time. And by choosing to do it anyways, by directly engaging with it, I know next time it'll be a little easier. And again, it's so much easier to tell myself that because I can look back at the past and look back at where I was when I started, and now it's so clear
01:25:38
Speaker
where that, like how much I've improved and like how much like better like things are. Yeah. That's so you kind of cope with it by like just talking through it with yourself. Yeah. Like, like, Hey, this is what's going on. Like literally. Okay. Yeah. Cause that's a thing. Yeah. Like I feel like, especially for me, like I'm pretty like introspective. Like I'm always like thinking about like, um,
01:26:04
Speaker
like thinking about how I'm feeling and like thinking about like my thoughts and like my beliefs and all of that. And like, I actually put off like therapy for a while because I was always like, Oh, like I already like think about like, like my thoughts and stuff. What's the point? Like, what is a therapist going to be able to like help me with? But at the same time, like, yeah, like you never realized like,
01:26:23
Speaker
how much like you're overlooking and like how much like like these like it's not even that you're like lying to yourself or you're like telling yourself anything that's wrong but it's almost like you just don't like recognize like like you just don't realize something or you don't realize like the real reason you're doing something and yeah a lot of
01:26:42
Speaker
And even like, I remember in the past, like there were times where I could tell like I was anxious about something, but it was almost like I couldn't stop myself from acting on it. Like I couldn't stop myself from like worrying and like getting in my head and like just being able to like, like just taking like the effort to like stop yourself and just explicitly like say to yourself in your head, like, you know, this is going to be fine. Like, you know, like there's actually nothing wrong. Like, you know, like.
01:27:08
Speaker
these thoughts you're having like aren't like reasonable, like just like taking that time to talk to yourself like that. Like, yeah, it's like, it's like, developing that kind of inner voice. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like that's hard. That's not, that's not just, you're not just born with that. It's like, you have to develop that over time. Yeah. Yeah.
01:27:30
Speaker
and kind of a layer above the train of thoughts that's normally in your head. I almost feel like sometimes it's not like a voiceover necessarily. Sometimes it's almost like the anxiety is a fog.
01:27:52
Speaker
that part of you that like knows like what's actually going on is like underneath that fog and it's like hard to recognize that sometimes so it's like being able to like to like listen to that voice in the back of your head like yeah beneath all of that noise like right you like and bringing that voice yeah into the forefront so you can tell yourself explicitly like no it's okay like gotcha yeah
01:28:15
Speaker
This is like some Star Wars shit, dude. Bro, literally. That's the thing. It's lowkey insane to think about. Yeah. That's cool. That makes sense. So one question I had is,
01:28:36
Speaker
And you may have like when you were younger before you kind of started processing this stuff, you may have like developed some like unhealthy coping mechanisms, right? Because you don't know any better.
01:28:55
Speaker
Was it a separate process to kind of let those unhealthy coping mechanisms by themselves go? Or did you just not turn to them anymore once you realized what was going on? Yeah. It's a mixture of the two, but I'd say primarily it's the first. You need to directly engage with them because
01:29:22
Speaker
Like with unhealthy coping mechanisms, like what makes them unhealthy is the fact that like they drive you to do things that like let you deal with your anxiety in the moment and maybe let you deal with like the most important things in your life that like you have to deal with like working tough where it's like you need to do that to survive. But at the same time, like it's those mechanisms are going to be damaging like in other parts of your life. And so like instinctively, like without even like realizing that they're unhealthy, you're just going to react in that way. And it's like.
01:29:50
Speaker
to be able to like a big part of it is being able to see that clearly to like give it like to realize that as something significant and like directly like challenge that parts part of you that wants to do that because like I mean for me like a big thing was like I remember like I like
01:30:10
Speaker
I would get so anxious about how people saw me that I wouldn't tell anyone anything about how I was feeling. I would never express how I was feeling emotionally because I just felt like I didn't want to have to worry about it. I didn't want to have to worry about what people would think.
01:30:29
Speaker
and like worrying about like, oh, are they going to think I'm weird? Am I going to be oversharing? Like all of that stuff. Like it was just better to like keep that to myself. Like it would even be hard for me sometimes to just be like, oh, like I feel exhausted. Like I need to take some time to myself. Like something as simple as that felt like so like, like was so nerve wracking. And it's like being like, it was like a huge process to like get over that and like be like, okay, there are going to be times
01:30:57
Speaker
now where like I overshare or I like say some dumb shit because like obviously like I'm not used to that like I don't have that kind of practice I haven't built up built up like that mental skill so yeah like it that definitely is a huge part of the process and I would say like honestly like that's that's one of like the biggest parts like of the process at first I don't have like biggest in the right way but I'd say like one of the most significant parts is like just being able to like
01:31:24
Speaker
Like those mechanisms just end up feeling like home to you. Like they're just where you're comfortable. They're just like, they've just become your second nature and being able to take that step away. Like you're going to have your anxiety screaming in your head like the entire time telling you like, no, like this is wrong. Like what are you doing? Like, yeah, like it's like, it's, it's definitely like hard as fuck. Like even now, right? Like there are times where I like just resort to those and like, I just don't have like the energy that day to like engage
01:31:52
Speaker
with those thoughts and I just end up going back to those unhealthy coping mechanisms. And another thing is those unhealthy mechanisms sometimes, it's like
01:32:06
Speaker
with what I was saying about avoiding sharing how I was feeling, there is a genuine sense in which you are exposed to less danger if you don't express yourself. You'll never have a risk of anyone laughing at how you're feeling, or you never have a risk of anyone judging you if you continue doing that, if I continue sticking to that coping mechanism.
01:32:30
Speaker
there's almost that part of you that's like, oh, isn't it better than being alternative? So even getting past that, being able to recognize, yes, I'm taking on more risk, but I'm never going to be happy with the life that I'm living unless I accept that risk. I definitely think that's a huge part.
01:32:53
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like it's a battle on many fronts, right? It's like it's being played in many different places in your head. That's like one of the biggest parts I would say like now, like before my anxiety has taken is like, yeah, I almost consider it like guerrilla warfare where it's like my anxiety, like it feels like it changes like from time to time where it's like, I'll deal with it.
01:33:22
Speaker
In one way and then like they'll like the anxiety will come back like in a different part of my life and like maybe like now like Physically like I'm tensing my body more and like I'm like tensing a part of my body that I like Didn't used to tense before like I remember at one point like I would just like tense like my feet Just like girl it up and like I wouldn't even realize what I was doing and then I'd be like, oh shit Like I'm doing this other thing and it's just yeah the anxiety is just like continuously like morphing and like taking on like a
01:33:50
Speaker
like, trying to hide from your conscious awareness. And it's like, like, and it's like, again, like, it's so easy to like, be disheartened and be like, fuck, like, like, what's the point if like, it's just gonna, it's always, is it always gonna be as bad just in different ways? Like, keeping that perspective that like, no, like, even if it continues changing, like, I can deal with it so much better now. Like, even if it's really bad, like, I can still like, live my life, like, to so much more of an extent that I want to. And also like,
01:34:20
Speaker
like the new ways that it manifests, like they do decrease in intensity over time. Like, yeah, it's like, it's new, it's a new struggle every day, but like the struggle does get like, the struggle definitely gets better over time. Like there's a, there's a Bojack quote that's always like resonated with me.
01:34:39
Speaker
It's, I don't even remember, I never finished watching Bojack. I watched it so long ago. The quote is, let me just fucking pull it up. Is it the dude that runs, the runner dude that randomly shows up outside his house? I don't know. And then drops a really wise quote.
01:35:07
Speaker
possible like that I don't know if I even saw it in the show or whether like I have like a photo like yeah yeah yeah someone like posted on the bojack like like reminded me but uh yeah yeah yeah it's like really something that like like has resonated with me and it's like hard to keep in perspective is it gets easier every day it gets a little easier but you got to do it every day that's the hard part yeah like yeah that's really like
01:35:36
Speaker
the biggest thing to like like it's to realize like it's not even about like how well you like fight it but it's about like taking that effort every day like there's like even on like my good days like there are times like I have like
01:35:52
Speaker
Like my anxiety has gone really bad and like thinking back, I realized like I was having a good day, but there was like a kernel of it, like in the back of my mind and like, I didn't pay attention to it because I was feeling so good and I didn't want to engage with it. Like I didn't, I didn't like realize what was happening. And I was like, so like focused on like everything else and like that seed just like grows and grows until it like turns back into like really bad anxiety. And like, again, like, like.
01:36:21
Speaker
then it feels so pointless again. And it feels like, okay, even if it gets better, I'm starting back at ground zero. But yeah, that's really the hardest part. Just having that stamina to keep going. You know how to cut it earlier. Yeah, exactly. You know how to kill it earlier. Yeah. And it dies faster. It dies faster with less resistance. Yeah. I'd say now, even when my anxiety is at its worst,
01:36:51
Speaker
It's hard, but like I can get it, get back to like a good place. Like, and here I'm talking like, like, like real, like when it gets really bad, like can take me like two or three days, but like, I'll get back to a good place. And it's like before that used to take like weeks and weeks sometimes. And like, even when I got back to a good place, like it was nowhere near as good as it is now. Right.
01:37:17
Speaker
Well, I, I've learned a lot like about my own anxiety, just by listening to you, you know, and talking about it with you. Um, and I'm sure a lot of others will have realized something or the other, or at least related to something that you've said today. Hopefully, man. Yeah.
01:37:43
Speaker
Thank you for doing this. Being vulnerable like this is not easy, but I think a lot of people will... I know I have gotten a lot out of it. No, no. It's good to hear that I'm back. No, because I think this stuff is so difficult, and it's so difficult to even...
01:38:04
Speaker
like it's so easy to dismiss yourself like and like the path like you have to walk is like so long sometimes like like I don't know like I just genuinely like I have like so much gratitude towards like all the people in my life who have like been there for me like even if sometimes like without realizing like for my therapist for like like like a lot of this like comes from him like his perspective like too like like helping me like think through like all of that like
01:38:30
Speaker
That's genuinely like, I just want to like be able to give some of that back. Like some of like the love that I've been given because like, and like some of like the perspective that I've gained because like, yeah, like I couldn't have gone here without like the perspective of others. Yeah. Let's share perspective, right? And help each other overcome and heal. Yeah. Like I've definitely like had conversations with like friends
01:39:00
Speaker
Um, who gone through therapy. It's like, it's like, we're sharing like things we've learned. We're at like, sometimes I like pick up like new things from them. Like comparing notes. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing what? Uh, compared the symptoms, checklists boys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's also like, like you said, like I have like so much anxiety, like still about like opening up about how I feel and like,
01:39:28
Speaker
carrying my perspective and like, yeah, like, like, it's like, I feel like a lot of times, like, that anxiety prevents me from like, it's like, I almost feel like, oh, like how like, I sort of like leads me to dismiss myself. I think because of that, like, yeah, it just prevents me from like, helping others sometimes when it's like, yeah, and I want to just be able to give that back. So
01:39:55
Speaker
We had some responses from the question that you'd asked. And so I want to make sure we touch on that. But one of the responses is anxiety can be good sometimes. It lets you know that you need to make changes. See, I almost feel like that's like, I used to feel the same way, but like more and more, like I feel like that's kind of like just a coping mechanism. Like I would like use
01:40:25
Speaker
situations where like my anxiety like told me something was wrong and i'd be like oh look like my anxiety helped me like my like i need to like keep it around like even how like i do that to a certain extent where like i'll like worry about something and keep worrying about it almost as a way of like reminding myself that that thing is important but in reality it's like you can do the same thing in much more healthy ways like you can still like like
01:40:49
Speaker
Like just because you're not worrying about something doesn't mean that it's important to you and doesn't mean that it's like significant. And like a big part of like, for me, like what I had to get over was being able to like untie, untie those wires in my head where like I almost equated like being anxious about something as like caring about it. And as like remembering like, or remembering like something that like I had to like deal with or like a problem that, um,
01:41:19
Speaker
I have to solve. So I don't know. I personally feel like anything you can get out of anxiety, you can get out of healthier means, right? If I'm worried about how I seem in social situations, and maybe sometimes I do actually talk over people, and my anxiety is what reminds me, oh, I shouldn't talk over people. You can, at the same time, just think to yourself, okay, I know it would feel bad to other people if I talked over them, and I can just try reminding myself
01:41:49
Speaker
of that. And like, even in retrospect, like, if I realize like, like, again, like getting back to what we were saying, where it's like, maybe at first, it's worse than when I like worried about that. And maybe it's like harder for me to stop myself. But like, I just have to continue like working on that. And like, eventually it gets to a place where like, I can do the same things, like, and still like keep on top of like the things I care about without needing that anxiety.
01:42:14
Speaker
Yeah. I think if it gets to the anxiety point, the point where it's turned into anxiety, then it's by nature, it's unhealthy. Like it's like, if it's gotten to that point, there's something wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then the other stuff we've addressed already, the only question is ever unnecessarily give yourself anxiety attacks. Cause you jumped to the worst case scenario. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.
01:42:43
Speaker
That's like, I do that too, for sure. I mean, that's like, I don't, I don't know what it is. We, we all like, um, extreme worst case scenarios in general, like people. Yeah. I feel like it's like kind of romanticized. Um, Oh yeah. And that, I mean, that's why you see these things in.
01:43:04
Speaker
books and yeah movies and stuff things are never really that extreme yeah i mean extremes are significant so yeah it makes sense that we'd be like interested in them in some sense but yeah i mean that doesn't it's very rare right like our human brains are the same way it's like yeah yeah go ahead no what were you saying no you go ahead um what was i saying bro
01:43:35
Speaker
Okay. I was saying, um, Oh no, I was going to say, okay. I remember. Uh, so it's like, uh, that's why like books and, uh, movies are usually about extreme extremes and not like every day. Right. Because you had a book that's just about someone's like every day, what life, like, Oh, I'm going to go to the gym at five today. Like that should ain't interesting. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. What were you saying? The human brain.
01:44:05
Speaker
No, I was just saying like the human brain seems similar in the sense that it also likes jumping to extreme conclusions. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I don't know. I was just trying to answer the question. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I think like part of it, at least for me was, um, like it was almost like, like, I see like anxiety as very much like tied to like an insecurity about myself and like, um, like sort of like not,
01:44:33
Speaker
not having trust in myself to be able to do the things that I want and just not having that sort of trust in myself. And then I feel like when I fixate on those sorts of extreme scenarios, it's almost out of this feeling of some, it is always, I don't know, it's like, every day when we cross the street, it's possible that we'll be hit by a car, right?
01:45:03
Speaker
To a certain extent, it's unavoidable. There are times when bad things are going to happen. And you can't control that. And it's terrible. And it's scary. But I definitely feel like that's something you need or I've had to work on for getting over my anxiety is being able to accept things like those. It's definitely a struggle. And I think there's a lot to that one. I think there's a lot of different reasons we think about extremes.
01:45:33
Speaker
totally yeah just to throw another one out there i guess like i feel like uh like another thing is like if like like say you like um it's like if you feel like you like a lot of times like we feel like we need
01:45:54
Speaker
things, like maybe I'm like worried about like losing something because I'm like, Oh, like if I lose my phone, like I'm not going to be able to contact anyone. Like how am I going to get home? Like all this stuff, like, like that is almost like itself, like a form of insecurity where it's like, we don't trust ourselves to be able to deal with like these sorts of like situations. Like, I don't know. I'm phrasing it very poorly, but it's like, we're worried about the worst happening because we don't truly believe that we'll be able to deal with
01:46:23
Speaker
the worst if it comes, when part of that is just having that confidence in yourself to be like, even if the worst comes, all I can do is the best that I can. That's not something that's in my control. Yeah, there's a whole, there's a lot to be said about- Specifically the- Yeah, like accepting things that are outside your control and just dealing with what you can, that's a whole.
01:46:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's a whole episode. Yeah. So I wanted to say like, again, like I know we kind of touched on this at the start of the episode, but we really appreciate everyone listening and, and again, like trying to reiterate the goal here.
01:47:13
Speaker
is that the point is we're not mental health experts. We're just we're just two people trying to share experiences and what we've learned and share that and kind of start discussions. And so hopefully we find we're trying to figure out how to engage with
01:47:33
Speaker
you guys, the audience better and kind of get some discussions pages or I don't know, something started. So if anyone has ideas, please DM us. Like we are desperately in need of ideas. Or just like any suggestions for anything, please send topics, anything. Please, please send us DMs.
01:48:03
Speaker
You think there's something that's like, like very insightful, like a short, like story. I mean, I'm just throwing ideas out there, like literally anything. Like if you'd like to hear us talk about, or you think it'd be interesting to like disengage, for us to engage with, just let us know.
01:48:18
Speaker
Yeah, if you have any tips on how to deal with anxiety, how to deal with breakups, depression, whatever, please send it our way. I
Audience Interaction and Future Plans
01:48:27
Speaker
know we got some submissions for the breakups question that we asked, like how do you deal with breakups? And we're going to go through them in the second part of the breakups episode.
01:48:41
Speaker
building hype. Yeah. You got to wait to get the answers you want. Yeah. Yeah. You got to wait a minute. You got to wait. Make sure you hit that follow button so you can see that's the second part of breakups when it drops. Please, please hit the follow button. Please like share the podcast with your friends. Like put it on your story, please. Just put it on your story. Send it to people.
01:49:08
Speaker
like if you'd like to the podcast we'd be happy to take your money yeah well no we don't need donations please do not send me your money sweet god yeah we should we should make like um you know we've gotten a lot of positive comments about the art the art bro yeah the art um so so one person told me we should make jackets
01:49:35
Speaker
bro with um with the with the art for the podcast on um on the back bro do you like let's get white hoodies and then you can hand draw sketches uh well no i'm very very blessed to hear positive comments on my shitty art hey this is a this is an all positivity chat
01:50:01
Speaker
Yeah. Oh yeah. Is that why? Is that why it's positive? Maybe that's why it's positive. Oh well. There are no mistakes.
01:50:12
Speaker
Only happy accidents. Only happy accidents, yeah. And so, okay, for the last section of, I know we did a song of The Week, but we're not releasing weekly, so that doesn't really make any sense. And we're not releasing monthly either, so that doesn't make any sense. And we kind of wanted to expand it to be like,
01:50:33
Speaker
Not just songs, but like anything like a movie or a, you know, a piece of like a painting or something. Any art. Any art, a book that's speaking to you. So if you guys have any ideas for the name for something like that, please, please let us know. Wait, I was going to say, I kind of like, I just got hit with an idea. I was kind of pretentious, but what about culture corner?
01:51:04
Speaker
Culture corner, bro, that feels like, no, no, no, we're not doing that. I'm not, I had to say it. It's not, bro, it's not pretentious. It feels like I'm in like fourth grade or so. Yeah. This is a culture corner and it's just like, it's just like, you know, people bringing in art from different cultures, like different posters.
01:51:47
Speaker
for us we actually had this thing where like every I don't even remember how often it was but every now and then they're just they just be like we have an assembly and we have an auditorium and they sit us down on the auditorium stage with like black curtains around us and all sides they just like bring out a random piece of art and be like this is the style of this work of art this is this artist
01:51:53
Speaker
Yeah, you ever made that shit for like show and tell like oh like I'm gonna do Diwali and like someone else gonna do holy Christmas
01:52:10
Speaker
It was not like an official class, we never got a grade for it. It was just like every now and then they're just like, we're culturing you bitch.
01:52:18
Speaker
I think your principal just had an obsession. Educators are quirky, you know? I feel like you kind of have to be quirky to be an educator. A whole generation of kids in one area will just end up learning something about something completely random because that dude just had that quirk. Yeah, exactly. It's like, there's like hundreds of, like, educators who will grow up learning some bullshit. Yeah.
01:52:49
Speaker
Yeah, definitely had some interesting teachers that stuck in my brain. Totally. Dude, I had a teacher once that like literally became obsessed with Twilight when Twilight came out. Wow. She literally like was gone for a week and we had like a sub for that week. And like it finally came out that she had been gone at a Twilight convention. Damn. And I think she ended up getting fired or some shit. I don't know.
01:53:15
Speaker
Because she, oh wow. Yeah. That's, that's quite a story. I really watched Twilight in that classroom, bro. Wow. Yeah. Um, it was wild. Damn. Are we gonna, is this, is this podcast, is this going to be like an Easter egg? Like every, um, every episode we're going to find a way to shit on Twilight.
01:53:35
Speaker
Wait, did we shit on Twilight last episode? Yes, we did. We did, bro. We did. We did through what, Todd? Yeah. I feel like it's not an Easter egg, bro. This is pretty fucking, like, straight up. But we're going to lose our all our Twilight fans. That's true. That's true. Hey, those movies are so bad it's good, bro. That's just hilarious. Yeah. That is true. It is pretty funny.
Cultural Connections and Future Episodes
01:53:59
Speaker
And it gave us Robert Pattinson. That's all that matters. Yeah.
01:54:05
Speaker
So anyways, for the pick of the episode, Culture Corner. We'll call it Culture Corner for today. What's in your Culture Corner right here? What have you brought to show and tell? Moving boxes are in my Culture Corner right now. Let me see. What have I been...
01:54:31
Speaker
I'm going to stick with the song for mine. My song of the week is called The Night We Met by Lord Huron. It's a very poetic song. And it's like got this like old timey feel to it too. Yeah, I like it. So that's my pick. Old timey, like how? I think he's just got this like kind of voice that belongs in the 60s or something, you know? Yeah, just in that way.
01:55:00
Speaker
I don't know. Like what type of music is it? I don't even know how to describe it. Is it? Is it like acoustic, like country? Like it's not really country. It's not country at all, actually. It's what the hell? What is the genre? Let me, let me find it. Lord Huron genre. American indie rock band. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Got you.
01:55:32
Speaker
Yeah, I've been getting back into like more and more rock music, so yeah. I guess for me, yeah, let's just keep it to a sign. I guess mine would be a song that I was just listening to before recording this podcast. The Microphones in 2020, it's kind of a wild song. That one song is the entire album.
01:56:02
Speaker
And it's a 40 minute long song. So it's a wild, wild journey, but it's essentially the singer reflecting on his entire life since childhood. And it's sort of framed where it's like,
01:56:19
Speaker
Like, you know how when you think about the past, like if you're going through photos, it's like you're sort of just like have these random memories like that just come up like as you're looking at like old memento, it's like sometimes it's from like your childhood. Sometimes it's from like when you were in middle school, like just like random points of your life. So it's sort of like him, like going back to the house that he grew up in and like going through like those old things and like sort of just like describing these like random memories that led him to like become a musician in the first place.
01:56:45
Speaker
and sort of like describing like his like thought process, like his perspective now versus then, like how he's changed as a person. And like, it's the reason it's that long is because like, that's how life is, right? There's no like breaks or like stops in life. It's just like one continuous, like just stream of like experiences and like sensations. So yeah, yeah, it's, it's really like, it's one of the most like, like there are passages in that song that are like some of the most beautiful like music I've ever heard.
01:57:15
Speaker
And I think like just lyrically like it's also just like really fucking good like like genuine like poetry Thanks everyone for tuning in appreciate it always. Thank you guys and We will see you in a few weeks with yes the next episode which I Don't think we know what we're gonna do yet, but uh It'll come yeah
01:57:42
Speaker
We have ideas we have yeah, yeah, I mean we didn't know we were gonna do anxiety like what last episode either No, sir, but I feel like we should start having plans Yeah, yeah, that's true. All right, let's keep them out of it. Yeah Yeah, just close okay
01:58:15
Speaker
you