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#8 - Motivation ft. Ganesh Ramakrishnan
75 Plays5 months ago
In this rotation, we're thrilled to be joined by the one & only Ganesh Ramakrishnan—founder of AVG Coffee Co pop-up in New York—to discuss motivation, procrastination, and the struggle to find your passion. We talk about why it can be so hard to get yourself to do the things you want to do in your life, and our own battles with those issues throughout college & beyond
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Transcript
Morning Struggles and Inner Critique
00:00:10
Speaker
Okay, it's 6.30. I can do this. Just have a 7 a.m. math class. I just have to get myself out of bed. I got this. I can do this.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm ready. the count of three. One, two, three. Shit, that didn't work.
00:00:33
Speaker
Maybe I should just set like another alarm on my phone or You pathetic piece of shit. What's the point in getting up anyways? What? Who are you?
00:00:44
Speaker
Who am I? I'm the guy that's gonna save you from looking like a dumb piece of shit in front of all your friends and family. What the fuck? You make no fucking sense. Oh you want me to make sense?
00:00:57
Speaker
You don't make sense, Mr. Dumbass. You have a quiz today and I know your dumbass didn't study for shit. You're gonna fail that quiz today. So how about you quit embarrassing us and just stay your ass in bed like you always fucking do?
Debating Insecurity and Choices
00:01:11
Speaker
Dumbass. Don't you think you're being a little redundant? Oh, there he goes again, Mr. Big Words, trying to hide the fact that he's a dumbass by using the biggest words in the fucking dictionary. That's not even that big of a word. You're missing the point.
00:01:26
Speaker
It's not about the words. It's about the fact that you even tried. You realize who I am, right? I'm you. You realize how many times you failed the test this past year?
00:01:40
Speaker
You're a freshman in college. People don't fail shit like that, man. Like, you don't get It's just not clicking. Nothing's clicking. I don't get it.
00:01:53
Speaker
Everything I try is just pointless. I haven't eaten healthy in a week. I haven't called my parents and I promised I'd call them every single day. What's the point? I mean, I can't even deal with the stress of my own inevitable failure.
00:02:09
Speaker
I slept at 2 a.m. last night just watching YouTube when I knew well and good that I had a quiz the next day. I mean, how was I ever going to get out of it bed? Shit.
00:02:21
Speaker
I'm really fucking this up, aren't I?
Breaking the Cycle and Taking Action
00:02:25
Speaker
No wonder I'm talking to myself. i mean, I don't think I've even slept properly the past few nights. Ah yes my boy, it is me, your inner psyche.
00:02:37
Speaker
That reminds me, you have gotten far too little sleep my boy. Four in five doctors say that you don't learn a thing without eight hours of sleep. So why don't you just go ahead and sleep and sleep in all day and you can try again tomorrow.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yo what the fuck? No, fuck this. This is an endless cycle. It's never gonna stop unless I get out of this bed and just take the first step towards achieving my goals. I go shower, I go study, a quick workout in, call my parents.
00:03:05
Speaker
I can actually get some energy going, see some friends. Baby steps now. First things first, gotta get off my stomach, roll onto my back, and I can get up and do the rest.
00:03:18
Speaker
On the count three. One, two, three.
00:03:27
Speaker
I'm okay. At least I made it out of bed.
Introduction to Ganesh and AVG Coffee
00:03:31
Speaker
Cool. Should we get started with the intro? Ah, yes.
00:03:37
Speaker
No, I was going to say because I have like ah i i did not like think through the intro or anything like that. Oh, okay. No worries. I have a bit of an intro. Okay.
00:03:48
Speaker
Cool. So, welcome back, guys. This is, what is this, number eight now? Yes. Today we have a guest joining us. Our guest today is very, very, very funny.
00:04:00
Speaker
He's thoughtful. He's got so many interests. He's artsy, just an all around G. He's known fondly by his buddies as the gunman, even though somehow he's furthest. He's the furthest person from a redneck you can think of.
00:04:13
Speaker
um He's one of my closest friends here since moving to New York. He's one third of average coffee in, should I say AVG coffee? i AVG coffee in Manhattan. He works in business, and yet he's still such a joy to be around.
00:04:26
Speaker
He loves movies, gaming, music, art, fashion, and coffee. And he's a proud AMC A-lister. ah You know that Willem Dafoe clip describing his friend? that's like He goes, like, there are many things interesting about him.
00:04:42
Speaker
He has a strong connection to classical music. He's gay. That's it. The clip ends there. But that's how I feel about Ganesh, except the fact that he's not gay, unfortunately. um so So, welcome, Ganesh.
00:04:55
Speaker
He has a strong interest in classical music. That's all it is. Just classical music. cut the Cut the rest of your intro.
00:05:06
Speaker
What's up, guys? Welcome. ah Nice to see you guys. Pleasure to be on here. dave That's an incredible intro, man. That's that's the most like ornate description I've ever had someone give. Thank you. Baroque. It's a pleasure to be here.
00:05:19
Speaker
ah It's a pleasure to be compared to Willem Dafoe. That in itself is incredible to me. but yeah He actually compared himself because he compared himself describing his friend.
00:05:30
Speaker
yeah I'm just a friend. I would be honored to be Willem Dafoe's friend, TBH. To be fair, yeah. To call me gunman as well is nuts on a public body. If someone's listening to this on speaker, they're immediately getting tackled right yeah and We got to build that mega audience somehow, bro. I know. Bring both sides of the aisle together.
00:05:54
Speaker
I would like to clarify that as as per my knowledge, I don't think the gunman owns any guns. and Unless I'm wrong. None besides the ones just attached to my arms.
00:06:09
Speaker
bill it was It was the fact that, like, the lack of confidence after to that joke in your voice. I really pulled it all together. I felt at the confidence waning as I was getting the sentence out. I've been there, bro. Yeah. Crazy, man.
00:06:29
Speaker
ah Thank you for having me, guys. appreciate being here. This is great, man. Perfect. um I guess we'll start with something simple, right? Like we'll start with, first of all, okay. I'll give a brief description, right?
00:06:41
Speaker
AVG Coffee, as per what I understand is a seasonal coffee shop that you guys host in your building rooftop where, you know, it's just a bunch of people in the community, in the neighborhood, your friends.
00:06:54
Speaker
And it's just a great time. How would you, how would you describe it and like what the inspiration is and where it's going? Yeah, absolutely. AVG Coffee Co. was a coffee pop-up that me and my roommates started up.
00:07:08
Speaker
We've been hosting events about every two to three months, and it's mostly driven by South Asian-inspired flavors because all three of us are South Asians. that We're also from the Bay Area, from Fremont, same hometown.
00:07:23
Speaker
And so from there, it's just been taking this interest of coffee into where can we explore it and what's a way we can get good coffee out to our friends and other people who are just interested in good coffee as well.
00:07:34
Speaker
So it's grown slowly from our apartment to making 25 drinks for just our friends to our most recent event, which was Sunday, this past Sunday, which we made 107 drinks.
00:07:46
Speaker
Tons of people came through. It's been going amazing. So that's really what Avijicavico is. It's just a pop-up coffee shop. And just growing with our friends, our circle, trying to keep it going here.
00:07:58
Speaker
That's amazing.
Balancing Work and Creativity
00:07:59
Speaker
So I imagine like this takes a good amount of time, right? Like ideating, like working on different syrups, like different, you know, um you know, putting it all together, executing, reflecting, like how is that balance like between, you know, your work life, your other passions and, you know, putting in work for this? Yeah. I mean, we typically have like an entire weekend just dedicated to like getting ready for the event.
00:08:23
Speaker
making syrups the entire week ahead. We're normally like testing out different syrups and like just trying them on ourselves or amongst ourselves and just being like, Hey, like, does this taste feasible? Like would people enjoy and orange, orange cardamom syrup, which sometimes they don't, doesn't taste good, but it's kind of part of the process.
00:08:43
Speaker
It's also the most fun part of the process, right? Cause I think the conversation we always have is like, okay, like what's something that you've had a growing up? ah Like it does desert that you've had growing up. And then from there, we just kind of like work backwards into figuring out how do you make that into a drink itself. So one of the ones we did this last time was called a Thundai latte.
00:09:03
Speaker
um I didn't have Thundai growing up. Did you guys have any growing up? Are you familiar with us? Uh, yes. i Well, Tendai is just like bhang without the fucking weed. There you Exactly.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, so we basically made a latte that was without the weed and also without, you know, ah the typical, i guess it's just milk added in it, but this time it's like steamed milk and an espresso added in it.
00:09:27
Speaker
uh and it was yeah isn't that just a regular latte yeah but like you know the thundai syrup was like poppy seeds uh pistachio dash like a bunch of like different flavors out of it got you uh so all of that put together so that was like our most recent film it's a fun process would you do an original one one original just of my own No, no, no. Like a bong version. Oh, yeah. just Special requests are always appreciated, you know? okay. 420 pop-up. 420 pop-up, exactly. It's crazy to me that the very first thing people asked us as soon as we said we did something like this was, okay, so when are the espresso martinis?
00:10:07
Speaker
Which, like, valid, but we're like, hey, we made this, like, wholesome event where people can just come and have coffee for free. And it just became like, so when are we getting fucked up?
00:10:19
Speaker
Where's my alcohol? Where's the blues at? Exactly. but yeah Is that on the roadmap? I don't think so, but I don't think we're opposed to it either. Like,
00:10:30
Speaker
If we were to do like a late night event or something, it's like come through, we'll make espresso martinis. That'd be fun as well. You know? Right. Late night, do it late nights. You can't sleep at all. Okay. here's Here's my question. I, now that I've actually thought about espresso martinis more, more, you know, involved, what is the point of espresso martinis functionally? Cause you can't have more than one of them.
00:10:54
Speaker
yeah you can it just won't be a good time is it just like a just a more fancy four loco yes that's literally what it is i'm just trying to go back to like drinking four locos again they took that shit out bro they they took out the caffeine you can't anymore that's right and they they got rid of it because it's like a health hazard or something right Yeah, too many people died. Oh my god.
00:11:21
Speaker
Lovely, lovely. So this is this, of course, this is kind of a side hustle of yours. But what is what is your main job? ah The main hustle is working at a company called Ascensus.
00:11:31
Speaker
They are a retirement savings and college savings company. So similar to Fidelity, if you have a kid that has a 529 college savings plan, for all the listeners that have 529 college savings plans,
00:11:45
Speaker
Chances are they're probably relatable. yeah Yeah. For the two people listening that have kids, the your plan is probably on our platform. And so my job is working between like our business side and our tech side to understand what we're building, improvements, build them, break it down, so on and so forth.
00:12:04
Speaker
You guys want to open up five, two, nine. It's not right. ah Please. I know we have them need you guys to. They're going to fire me if I don't get you guys to open up a 529.
00:12:15
Speaker
That's why he's actually here. He needs the commission. My entire role here today is just shouting out all the people that I've ah borrowed money from. AVG, 529 companies.
00:12:28
Speaker
All the the products I have to show. They said, do you want to be on a podcast? And my eyes glue like cartoons like dollar signs. Yeah. they And would you say like, this is what you, you know, wanted to get into forever?
00:12:44
Speaker
it was a journey in its own, you know, like getting to this point. Uh, it wasn't like a intentional thing of, Hey, I'm going to go into, you know, this specific industry, but it is a role that like, i enjoy a lot. Cause it's a lot of working with people and that itself is like very soul nourishing, you know, this is part of the journey of like figuring out that, like, Hey, like maybe ah don't,
00:13:07
Speaker
feel less comfortable doing something that's more of like a technical job, like a coding job or something, but still wanting to be somewhere in technology. I mean, i feel like that's honestly like a good place to start if you want to walk us through like what that journey looked like.
00:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So for the job specifically, ah the way it started off was I graduated out from the University of California, Irvine, ah with a degree in psychology and a minor in digital information systems.
00:13:35
Speaker
My goal was to go into user interface and user experience research and design anywhere in that field. That was really the core interest coming out of college, which even getting to that point was its own separate journey, but we'll get into that.
00:13:49
Speaker
But after graduating, I joined into this company called Synoptek, which was a consulting company. They had this new hire program where it was like, you go in, you express what type of teams you want to work on, and they'll put you towards like a team that focuses on your interests.
00:14:04
Speaker
So throughout the interview process, was like, yeah, like UI UX, that's what I want to focus on. And they were like, cool, that sounds good. Like as soon as you get in, just make sure you express that to people and they can put you on the right teams.
00:14:15
Speaker
I joined in and they put me on like the data reporting team. I was like, hey, who, what gives? Where's for this is the Where's the furthest? They were like, oh, like.
00:14:27
Speaker
We don't have any UI UX teams that work in the States. Everyone's in India. So we can't put you on one of those teams. So you're going to be on this team for now and just keep talking to people and try to see what you can figure out. Right.
00:14:40
Speaker
And, you know, so they just straight up lied you brand yeah you. I should have pushed more when I was in these interviews. And like the first two people that I talked to were like, uh, yeah, I think that should work.
00:14:54
Speaker
it clearly didn't but from there like i just took time working on the data reporting team and naturally i found myself getting pulled towards projects that were not so much data reporting heavy but working with like clients to understand what they wanted to build so uh from there uh that pulled me towards my role of like a business analyst which is the role that i'm currently in right now which is Exactly that understanding what's going on and like documenting that, making it clear and putting a path down for them to be able to make the improvements they want to.
00:15:27
Speaker
So that got me interested in this role, which then got me recruiting and then made it into a census, which I've been at for the past two and a half years, getting up to three years soon.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah. Damn, always sucks being lied to, but I'm glad I at least worked out. I'm glad that like the role you got into ended up being something that you were interested in or at least like kept you engaged. And so you were able to leverage that.
00:15:53
Speaker
So it wasn't for a waste or anything. But I guess like going back to what you said initially about how you majored in psychology in college and how you initially wanted to go into UI UX. I guess like, why don't you just talk a little bit more about that and like how exactly you got to that point?
00:16:08
Speaker
Because, I mean, you said like it was kind of a crazy story. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So originally I went in going for computer science. what What did you guys end up majoring in?
00:16:20
Speaker
Computer science. So like, I went in, I mean, did you guys go into computer science being originally like, Hey, like this is the path for me. Like this is my career path.
00:16:32
Speaker
its ah yeah ah David, when this audio medium is shaking his head. No. Oh God. No. I knew nothing about computer science when I got there. What was, what was your guys's, I guess, approach to like, was there a very time where it felt like you hit like a wall?
00:16:48
Speaker
I don't know like if there was like a wall per se, but there was definitely a big period, a very long period of time where I just felt like this was too much for me.
00:17:00
Speaker
like it was just I just felt behind all the time. you know like I came into it not really knowing much computer science. Yeah. Obviously, like lot of smart people get into it who have been doing it for a really long time.
00:17:14
Speaker
ah So it's just like always having to play catch up. And also, just like it's a different way of thinking. you know It's like learning a different language entirely. So it's like yeah it like learning how to think in code just takes a really long time. like I think maybe for some people, it comes more naturally.
00:17:33
Speaker
It just depends on how your brain works, I guess. Yeah. yeah Yeah, but I feel like i feel like my friends pull me through. like i yeah Like, I would not have gone through it without my friends. Honestly, that's huge because I had kind of gone into computer science in a very similar way where I just knew that I enjoy technology. it was just one of these things. Like, I think growing up in the Bay, you get set up for like a couple of different industries where it's like, hey, this is the most interesting thing in the world. You should go towards this.
00:18:03
Speaker
And so technology and like computer science was seemed like a no brainer. And so I'd gotten into Irvine for comp sci, started stuff out first quarter. I was there. Everything was fine. Like I was able to get through classes. Things seem to make sense, albeit like a very different type of thinking, exactly as you said.
00:18:22
Speaker
But going past that, when I started getting to some of the more difficult classes, I started noticing that I was hitting like a very serious wall. And part of that was I didn't feel like I had a lot of friends that I could compare notes against.
00:18:37
Speaker
A lot of times in general, like college just felt like you just got dropped off in like the middle of like a ton of freedom without a ton of direction. And so after a while, what I realized is that I was getting incredibly anxious to even do the work that was outlined for me.
00:18:55
Speaker
know like I didn't have a natural motivation to go out and be like, oh, like I have this homework assignment out to do. you know um I think one way or though another, if you have like an assignment coming up or a project that you have to turn in, either you'll do it from like the interest of it or you just get so scared about the deadline that you're like, all right, I just have to do it but I think for the first time in my life, when I started doing some of my computer science projects that I didn't know the answers to or I felt blocked by, um instead of actually addressing it head on, I found myself getting into this cycle of getting really anxious from not being able to do the work and just closing my laptop.
College Anxiety and Major Changes
00:19:39
Speaker
Just thinking like, hey, like this is making me lose my mind. I have to close my laptop and like get away from this for a moment. And so I'd close my laptop or let myself guess get distracted by one thing the or the other.
00:19:52
Speaker
And then time would build up, the deadlines would come by and then get more anxious and be like, shit, like I haven't gotten started on this. Open the laptop back out, realized how far behind I actually am and how much time there is like, oh shit. like 10 hours to the deadline and there's like 15 hours of work to do here.
00:20:09
Speaker
And again, just get so scared about like not being able to do a good job that it just felt like crippling. I just would close the laptop again, which resulted in me like not turning in some assignments, just doing some like very poorly or not even doing like the meat and potatoes of projects that we had to turn in.
00:20:28
Speaker
ah And understandably, like this had a very direct impact in that I didn't pass a few of my classes when it comes to computer science. And it just became this thing of like avoiding this issue because it just felt so crippling and scary, which, you know as I say it out loud, it sounds a little ridiculous.
00:20:46
Speaker
Like, hey, if it's an issue, go seek help. Address it head on. But I just couldn't explain it. It just didn't feel possible. It just felt...
00:20:57
Speaker
They just felt like you got locked in. yeah yeah yeah And so I feel like that put me on a very separate path than what I anticipated as well. I think going into college, it was like, okay, like go to computer science, do a little bit of hard work, get your degree, come out work. you know The path is typically set out for you, especially if you're like brown, I think.
00:21:20
Speaker
The path is like, hey, you just do these things, you're working, right? I think I just got so caught up with thinking like, Hey, it's just going to happen by itself. And didn't realize how difficult it was going to be, especially for me. Like just was that, it was just not for me at the end of the day, but ah all that put together just made me like not perform to the point where eventually i kind of had to switch out of, out of computer science to psychology, which took its own, you know, searching as to like why I specifically wanted to go there and,
00:21:54
Speaker
You know, I feel like, I mean, you mentioned that it sounds kind of ridiculous, but I don't think it sounds ridiculous. I feel like it's so like, and yeah, I mean, it's easy to say like the thing to do when you're stuck with something is to go head on and seek help. But like, I feel like there's a reason why it's not easy, right? Like it's, you've grown up with it as such a fact that like,
00:22:17
Speaker
and we all have to some extent where it's like like an if inevitable fact right that you are going to go through this path become you know a software engineer or whatever and live in the bay and and and you know that's how your life will progress but when that kind of breaks i mean how do i say this It's like when when it's not materializing the way you anticipated it would, and you've never had to kind of change paths, like you've been following that one path for so long.
00:22:48
Speaker
It's debilitating. Like, it's really hard to deal with that. And that sounds like what you're going through. Yeah. I mean, I think you kind of nailed it on the head there because debilitating is like exactly the word.
00:23:00
Speaker
Like, I don't know I've never, I'm thankful to say that I haven't experienced that level of like sensation going forward or I haven't, I haven't experienced that type of anxiety or lack of motivation to do anything, but it very much cascades into like a lot of other stuff. Like ah for the first time ever, I felt the onset of like,
00:23:21
Speaker
a panic attack. And thankfully I had like friends that not in computer science, but other friends that I'd made that were helpful for calming me down. um It was a lot of just like woeful ignorance of like, Hey, like I know in my mind, like some of the times that I take these classes, i was like, okay, like even if I do this work right now, I feel like I'm still going to fail this class.
00:23:44
Speaker
Like that's pointless. Right. um And it was, yeah, again, like a combination of a lot of things is not feeling comfortable with the material. I think another piece of it is like i was saying, like the first time you get to college, especially like for me, like I had this sensation where I didn't feel like I knew what my purpose or role was there.
00:24:07
Speaker
You know, like so much of the focus was like, Hey, get into a good college. Right. And then when you get there, like, it just didn't really connect. And like, I didn't feel like I had a lot of guidance headed towards like, Oh, like, Hey man, like this is also like super critical, which again, like can sound obvious to some people here and being like, Hey, you're in college.
00:24:27
Speaker
What else are you supposed to do here? But it just felt like, Hey, like I have all this freedom. I can finally do whatever I want in this place. And part of that is like, if I can do my own thing, maybe I shouldn't do this thing because it is not making me feel good.
00:24:40
Speaker
You know? and that was its own sort of like change of expectation, I guess, from what I anticipated was going to be happening. Yeah. No, I definitely get that.
00:24:53
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, that's something I felt a lot too. And again, like going back to this idea of like, Like how it almost feels like stupid to even be struggling like that.
00:25:04
Speaker
Like, I feel like there's so much self judgment that gets tied into these things. And I guess like this is a more general point I want to start off with.
Understanding Procrastination and Self-Judgment
00:25:11
Speaker
But one thing which has really helped me a lot is understanding that fundamentally procrastination is not a issue about being lazy or about just not wanting to do something. Fundamentally, it's like an emotional regulation issue.
00:25:25
Speaker
When you have ah just so much emotionally tied to something, it makes it very difficult to get yourself to do something. And i think for things like this, like when you have this vision for your whole life set out, when you have this idea of who you should be, like it becomes very easy to start judging yourself for not being able to do those things. Like it should be so easy for me to just like put that time out and schedule everything out and get my work done.
00:25:50
Speaker
It should be so easy for me to do these responsibilities that I have in my life. Why can't I do it? That must be a problem with me. When in reality, it's just like, like you said, like sometimes that's just not actually the path that's worse for you or that's sustainable. You have to find what's actually feasible for yourself and like who you are and when you lose that idea of like what you think your life should be, i mean, like you almost feel like, like you had such a clear idea for your life and now that feels like it's starting to crumble. So it almost feels like your whole life is falling apart, even though like in reality, like there are always other alternatives. There are always other options, but yeah, I definitely like,
00:26:30
Speaker
I'm someone who's struggled with that a lot. I'm someone who's, like I said, like I'm coming to terms with not necessarily being able to be the person who I always thought I should be or not always being able to do the things that I feel like I should be able to do based on who I think I am.
00:26:46
Speaker
um yeah And for me in college too, like I definitely struggled with the same things. Like I remember like there was one class where i got so overwhelmed and like anxious that I didn't go to my final class.
00:27:00
Speaker
like I just could not get myself to leave the library and go to my final. And I just had to like, you know, the professor afterwards just being like, Hey, like, I'm really sorry, but like I had a lot going on in my life. I'm in like a really bad place mentally. And like, I literally could not go and take my final.
00:27:16
Speaker
If there's anything like we could do to like work that out. And like, even if it's like, I have to like take time over the summer to do it, or like, maybe I just have to retake the class like next semester. Like, Like, yeah, like, I definitely know what it feels like to reach that breaking point. And like, just like how almost like pathetic that can feel sometimes to like, be in that position.
00:27:36
Speaker
um so yeah, I mean, i know i kind of went all over the place. I think all the other points you're hitting on, like, I can associate with a lot of those feelings because like, again, like from anyone else that was, you're saying the story, you say the word pathetic and it's like, dude, no, like that's not like, it's, it's very human, but yeah I've also 100% been that person that's been like, Hey, like I feel pathetic right now.
00:27:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah. what What happened with the story with the final itself? Like, was there something that transpired or was there something that came out of that? Um, yeah, I think, um,
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think my professor just ended up giving me like an alternate like essay that I had to write or something. um Yeah. And then like I passed the class. um I mean, thankfully, this was like, you know, like COVID, like everything was like kind of passing the pass. So um it wasn't like that big of a deal for me.
00:28:26
Speaker
um Yeah, I definitely think I lucked out a lot with that policy. Like, I think like with COVID and everything like that, like COVID was a very revealing time for me in terms of like sort of forcing me to admit, admit like my own limitations and like that I needed like um yeah, that i needed more help and that I couldn't just like deal with everything on my own, especially like when I ran into situations like that.
00:28:50
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. Sure. ah I'm curious to hear what your guys' is kind of self-soothing approaches have been to
Strategies for Managing Stress
00:28:58
Speaker
situations like that. Cause I can, I can share at least for me, it was a lot of like,
00:29:03
Speaker
baby steps was kind of the way that I viewed it. yeah and It was like, okay, like, if I can get myself out of bed today, that's a that's a win, right? Like, keep taking those wins.
00:29:16
Speaker
If I can like, you know, do like 10 minutes of work today, that's a win. So it was a lot of like, self-soothing and like nurturing myself to try to like get into a state where things would happen more naturally instead of just you know again feeling so locked in and not able to move yeah yeah I'm curious to hear what type of experiences you guys had towards addressing stuff like that yeah I mean I think for me it's pretty similar where like Again, like shifting my mindset to focus more on like the small wins because it's like, yeah, like I think a lot of times, like especially if you aren't like, if you're already in a place where you feel like incompetent or you're like, there's a lot of like self-judgment about not being able to get something done.
00:29:59
Speaker
I feel like just taking a bit, like spending like five, 10 minutes to like clean my desk off or like to clean my apartment, things like that. Keeping track of those like little wins through the day can be like a good way of just like mentally checking yourself and being like, okay, like I know, like I didn't get as much done as I maybe wanted to, or I didn't get that thing that i really wanted to take care of done, but I still have like all of these things that I was doing throughout the day. like I can still see that overall trend where i am getting better at like still, um,
00:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, like still keeping myself like motivated, not letting myself just fall into like a spiral or like a pit. I think that's a big thing. And i think another thing is just more being mindful of like how I'm feeling and like being able to check myself there.
00:30:40
Speaker
Because I think, like I said, like realizing that it's an emotional regulation issue has made it a lot easier for me to realize when I am that stressed or that anxious and to be like, okay, like, why are you feeling this way? Like, is this actually something like, like for death? Like, is this something that's actually that urgent? Or is it just that, like, again, like you have so much like emotionally invested in this that you're not thinking about it clearly?
00:31:05
Speaker
And like, I think a lot of times taking a step back to like, think about that can kind of make me realize how distorted my own thinking is about the situation. Like it can make me realize that like, okay, like sure, maybe it would have been better if you had more time to finish this thing, but you can still do like a good job, like with the time you have.
00:31:24
Speaker
And like, even if you can't, at least I can understand how I got to that point. I can have like more acceptance of myself. and be like, you know, you're working on this, you know, you're obviously not at the best right now, but let's just stay focused on, like, doing what we can with the time that we have versus, like, making the situation worse by, like, pushing it off more and, like, falling further and further into the state. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, it takes a lot of recognition that moment to be like hey like yeah i need a pause i need to like take a second here which you know sometimes that can happen much later than desired but still it's one of those things yeah yeah oh yeah it's it's hard as fuck and like um
00:32:07
Speaker
like you said like um like it can take a while but then like again like that can end up feeding into like a cycle of self-judgment too where it's like you also need to be willing to like forgive yourself and like keep perspective on like how much progress you've made because like for me now maybe sometimes like it'll it'll still take me like half an hour like an hour or something sometimes to like really realize the state
Personal Growth and Trusting the Process
00:32:31
Speaker
I'm in. But then I remember like in the past, sometimes it would take me days.
00:32:35
Speaker
Like I would just spend like days like in that anxious, like panic state. So it's a long process. It's definitely a struggle. It's not something that's ever like easy or like that you ever like get perfect.
00:32:47
Speaker
But yeah, you just need to keep like chipping away at that boulder and like keeping perspective on like how much better things are. Yeah. yeah I think that metaphor of chipping away at the boulders an interesting one because it it's always like, I've always found that at any point in time, there's like maybe one thing that works or like one quote that motivates you.
00:33:09
Speaker
ah But just as like you have any tool that'd be used to chip away at boulders, sometimes your tools break and then you have to go get new ones. yeah And that itself I've found sometimes can be like a disheartening process of like, oh shit, like I thought I'd figure this out.
00:33:25
Speaker
i thought i had something that would work yeah yeah shit okay let me go find something of else ah what fucking self-help book do i need to read right now to like find a solution right yeah and that's that's like so that itself can be so disheartening because it's like you don't know how long it's going to take to find that other thing. Right.
00:33:46
Speaker
And it's like, that can make it hard to have confidence in yourself and have trust in yourself. If you're like, how do I know this tool that I'm using isn't going to break like in the middle of this process? How do I know how long it's going to take to like, get myself out of this func like this time?
00:34:00
Speaker
yeah Well, what's the point, man? Why, why do anything at that point? Right. Yeah, exactly. That's just life, right? You just got to try how you can. Yeah. I think it becomes less about the tool, right? It's like,
00:34:13
Speaker
I feel like because your tool is going to break. You know what I mean? Like you're going to grow. With you, your anxiety is going to grow. It's going to find new ways to manifest itself.
00:34:26
Speaker
Situations are going to change and just things that worked before aren't going to work anymore. And so it's I feel like it's more really about like the tool is really the process of like yeah finding your inner voice to, you know, stop yourself and take a step back and really fall in love with that process yeah that process of taking a step back self-care yeah analysis and then and then restart right if you're comfortable with that process and not dreading it i think that's the key yeah trusting the process and that means fundamentally trusting yourself to be able to like follow the process yeah yeah i mean
00:35:07
Speaker
I'll tell you this much. a Hearing that, I think back when I was 18, 19 would have been huge. Right. Be like, Hey, like just trust a process. Go through it. It's okay. If like your test cases start failing, keep going, you know?
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah. I know that feels good. Yeah. And I feel like to a certain extent, it's like you like ah until you really experience that, like how the fuck can you really trust the process? Right. Like it's only like once you've struggled through it a couple of times that you can really start to be like, okay, like it nothing is actually going to blow up in my life. Like my life isn't actually falling apart. Like, yeah, even building that trust takes time through experience.
00:35:52
Speaker
I don't think that's something you can ever be told, you know, Like, I think that's something you just need to go through and like feel yourself. And people telling you can just help you keep perspective in the moment.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah. There's no golden ro set of rules to follow, you know, like it's really just trial and error. Yeah. Hello. Welcome to your wellness session.
00:36:17
Speaker
I'm going to share some facts about your Audi.
00:36:21
Speaker
Your Audi is an exemplary person, so please sit back and try to enjoy each fact equally.
00:36:30
Speaker
These facts are not to be shared with anyone, but for now, they're yours to enjoy.
00:36:36
Speaker
Your Audi is kind and generous.
00:36:41
Speaker
Your Audi takes two zins before work every day.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yur-Odi scrolls Instagram while taking a piss at the urinals. He's so efficient, just like you. Yur-Odi owns a bright orange Cybertruck.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yur-Odi loves waffles and Kool-Aid. Yur-Odi enjoys being packed. Yur-Odi fills Aesop bottles with regular soap.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yur-Odi likes to separate the art from the artist.
00:37:17
Speaker
You're out eating straight one the beef.
00:37:22
Speaker
Thank you for attending this wellness session. I hope you feel well.
Creative Self-Doubt and Instincts
00:37:33
Speaker
I'm curious to hear your guys' thoughts on this because I feel like a large part of this keeps coming back to me when it comes to like new projects, right? Like self-interested projects and stuff where I'll be like, oh, like I have an interest in like writing and stuff.
00:37:48
Speaker
And I'll be like, okay, I'm going to write a little bit more. And then this kind of like self-consciousness starts creeping in. And like, I think all these things that we're talking about today, ah different iterations of those start popping up.
00:38:00
Speaker
ah With you guys on the podcast, like, why do this? Like, when does that self-conscious demon start popping up being like, hey, like, why are you doing this? You know, like, what's your guys' way of approaching that?
00:38:12
Speaker
It's funny you say that. I feel like literally before we started this season, i was like, it hit me one day. i was just like, why am I doing this? Like what, like, what do I possibly have to say that's worth putting out there? Right.
00:38:31
Speaker
And also, also feeling really, um anxious about putting myself out there in the first place where it's like all this stuff about me is just there you know for people to listen to um yeah is it too much you know is it like am i yeah am overexposing myself like is this some kind of weird coping mechanism is it just a sign of weakness that i'm doing this uh yeah dude i don't honestly would be lying if i said i'd figured out how to deal with that but the only thing that's helped is the perspective that i have seen it help people and people reach out and thank me for it
00:39:14
Speaker
uh and thank us for doing it and really appreciate what we do so it really keeps coming back to the fact that even if this can even if one person can listen to this and feel 10 better it's worth it yeah i mean i can say to that like even like me sharing the story of like oh here's the story of how i fucking had to get out of a major and like completely tank a major to like figure out what to do with life and stuff. It's, it's inherently like when I think to it, like it's not something I say with like a smile on my face most the time.
00:39:49
Speaker
I'm appreciative that this is like a safe space to be like, Hey, like I can talk about it openly and it's something in my past, but still deeply like embarrassing at times. Right. But I think that is the hope, which is you can say something that resonates with someone can help them find their path and a little bit more, you know?
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No. And I definitely feel like a lot of times, like that's something that's hard for me to keep perspective of. Cause it's like, i I honestly don't know if I've ever told it anyone the story that I just said to you guys about like me not being able to go to a final because I was just like, so like wrecked, like motivation wise.
00:40:28
Speaker
And it's like a lot of times, like I feel like even for me, like I don't really know what I'm going to get out of it until I really go through that. And I feel like that's even a part of like trusting the process. Like,
00:40:39
Speaker
not trying to get too fixated on like, what am I getting out of this? Like, what is the value? And just like trusting my own instincts and like trusting that, like, I mean, there are things that I've tried to do before, which I have never been as consistent about as this podcast.
00:40:56
Speaker
And so there has to be something that's like drawing me back to it um that I'm getting out of it. And Even if like day to day and like episode to episode, I don't necessarily even know that until afterwards, even if like sometimes thinking back, it's hard for me to remember like what i exactly I got out of it. yeah Like, again, i think it's just like trusting those instincts and trusting that process.
00:41:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like it's a shift of like why you do something right. Like you should do something not because there's some kind of final goal associated with it.
00:41:30
Speaker
Right. Like like if you're starting a podcast, don't start a podcast because you want to become Jay Shetty. You know what I mean? Like that's not the goal. Like like do it because you want to go through the experience. You want to learn about what it takes.
00:41:45
Speaker
You want to, you know, express yourself that way and feel what it's like. And if you do that, like the experience is valuable no matter how long you do it. Right. Like yeah you and I, Ganesh, we started writing a fucking, we started writing ah a TV show, yeah a script for a TV show.
00:42:03
Speaker
We, I feel like we went pretty hard on it for like two weeks. Solid two weeks. That was some very good ideas in there. Yeah. Some fantastic ideas. But ultimately, I feel like maybe it's not the right time for us to get into that.
00:42:16
Speaker
i think Really, you know, really go at it. But that that even those two weeks or months, however long we had those conversations, like I don't regret any of that. Like that was so valuable in terms of I understand something a little bit more now. And like maybe if I wanted to express myself that way, like I know what it would take.
00:42:38
Speaker
but that's all like i feel like it's just this perfectionist mindset that you have to find yeah where it's like what's the point of doing it if i don't like what's the point of taking the acting class if i'm not gonna if there's a less than 0.01 chance i become an actor you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah i can't tell if this is like a symptom off of like covet or something we're like It feels like a lot of decisions in life have started becoming very like calculated. Or maybe it's just a symptom of getting older. But like everything, like the cost value...
Discipline and Consistency in Growth
00:43:11
Speaker
What is that?
00:43:11
Speaker
The cost value benefit... yeah i mean essentially cost benefit analysis the cost benefit analysis has been uh kind of brought to the forefront come on bro thought you were a business analyst shouldn't you know this yeah i studied psychology that's your excuse now You know, my favorite thing is whenever, like, someone says something about their emotional, it's just like, trust me, I study psychology. I know all the answers.
00:43:41
Speaker
I'm a professional. I'm a
00:43:45
Speaker
Why you need a therapist? is You study psychology. Exactly. Talk to myself. you Just figure it out. Yeah. kind go It's not that... Cyberbullying? Walk away from the screen. so That's one of the most iconic tweets ever, bro. How...
00:44:03
Speaker
How is procrastination real, bro? Just pick up your computer and do that. You know, I've heard that piece of motivation sometimes around like, oh, like motivation isn't going to strike you You have to like make it happen.
00:44:17
Speaker
Right. Which sounds really good, but it's really fucking hard. It's really hard to be like, hey, like, I want motivation to distract me. I want to feel this urge to do something.
00:44:30
Speaker
To just be like, just do it. There's no other way to do it. It's a hard mental barrier a lot of times, you know? And i feel like, i don't know what the golden solution is here. It's not like, I think inherently that's the only approach, which is you do it, you know?
00:44:45
Speaker
But I don't know. It's always been like something that I've found as a recommended piece of advice that I've just always had a hard time digesting, you know? Yeah.
00:44:58
Speaker
I think that's something that I've also been coming to terms with recently where it's like, even if like, It's like, even if I'm passionate about something, even if there are times where I'm super motivated, there are going to be times where I really don't want to do that shit.
00:45:12
Speaker
And discipline is almost like the connective tissue between different moments of inspiration and motivation. And it's like having that discipline allows you to be motivated and be inspired more often too. Because like when you put that time in a lot of times, you may not realize in the moment that something's going to be engaging. But like once you start doing it it is Like, I definitely have felt that where it's like, I don't want to have to put in effort. I want it to just be this effortless feeling of like being inspired and not even having to try.
00:45:42
Speaker
so Yeah, I definitely think that's part of the internal struggle. That's so hard to me, man. Because, yeah, like, I've literally thought that exact thing, which is like, oh, I think the issue just I'm not disciplined.
00:45:54
Speaker
Like, I have no discipline. Like, how do I how do I build this now? You know? Yeah. It's like, even if you build discipline point in one thing, not being able to do it in another thing, well, then... cascade and be like oh like if i'm not disciplined about this other thing what about this thing that i am disciplined about is that even real you know and then that starts shaking confidence sometimes which i feel like has been something that i've experienced before and it's very disheartening i think yeah yeah to your point you just have to quiet out all the voices in your head but yeah easier said than done
00:46:30
Speaker
There was this book that had read a long time ago. It's really stupid. Like, is this is going to sound dumb, but like, it was called Act Like a Leader, Think Like a Leader.
00:46:41
Speaker
It was like, it was some book that when I got into like consulting in college, that it was like a recommended book by the National Org or whatever. So I read it. But like, i feel like, you know, I don't even think I'm qualified to say this, but the concept of the book was like, you can't wait for your mind to get right.
00:47:00
Speaker
yeah Right. Like if you want to start being more extroverted or like reach out to someone, whatever it is, um you can't wait to get in the right mindset.
00:47:11
Speaker
Like your mind needs to be shown what's possible. Right. So you just need to do it and your mind will follow, will create patterns yeah after that, which I thought was always helpful.
Anxiety, Productivity, and Support
00:47:23
Speaker
ah Even though I feel like personally, like, and I'll be honest here and and I'm looking for maybe some perspective, but like, I don't think I struggled with procrastination in the same way that you guys are describing.
00:47:36
Speaker
I think for me, like, my anxiety manifested in a way where I just had to do everything. Like i had to do everything before I felt any kind of peace. Um, and that just resulted me in me always doing stuff and never feeling any peace.
00:47:51
Speaker
Um, yeah but, but at least I was efficient. You know what I mean? Like I got a lot of shit yeah that way. yeah Right. um deep performance so peak performance, right. Um,
00:48:05
Speaker
um But I would always like, you know, some of my friends, people around me, um they w I would see some people struggle with, uh,
00:48:18
Speaker
you know, something that they had to do, but they just couldn't do. And I would just not understand. Like I would. And I'm a person who's very like really always trying to like lift everyone up, like help everyone all the time, obnoxiously too much. yeah And I've toned it down a lot because it was really annoying.
00:48:40
Speaker
But, um, but I was that person and I would just, I would, sometimes I would stare at these people and I'd be like, just do the fucking thing. Like, why aren't you just doing the thing? Right.
00:48:51
Speaker
And I just wouldn't understand. So, um, I feel like I'm learning something here. Since then, I feel like I have experienced that kind of procrastination a little bit.
00:49:06
Speaker
So I kind of understand a little bit more now. um But yeah, I'm curious like if you have any... like If you see someone, it if what advice would you give someone who is...
00:49:25
Speaker
experiencing that they're seeing someone around them that they care about go through this like what would you tell them to how to respond how to react yeah um i think like the biggest thing is like helping ground them like i think like i said like giving them some perspective about like just like talking them through like the thought process of like okay like how much time do you actually need for this like how much um Time do you have? What are you capable of?
00:49:56
Speaker
Like, how important is this thing really? Like, what are like the consequences? Like, if you don't do this thing as well as you want to, I really think it's about like, getting someone out of that, like anxious mind state and like getting them to start think that through those things in like,
00:50:13
Speaker
yeah, like a so safe environment so that they can start to realize like, okay, um like, yeah, maybe like I am like exaggerating this thing. um But I do think like, like always with like mental health, like I think that there's only so much you can do.
00:50:28
Speaker
And like sometimes like when you're in that mindset, like you just kind of have to ride it out. And like, I don't think that there's, you can only do so much to help someone. And sometimes they just need to like go through that.
00:50:39
Speaker
And then maybe afterwards you can talk to them about it and be like, um hey, like like yeah like just talk through the situation with them. I 100% agree with everything you said out here. cause I think, granted someone's huge, like it is very much like you're stuck in a thinking trap. right You get stressed out, i don't know how to do this, and then it just builds more anxiety, you just get trapped in.
00:51:04
Speaker
um One of the things that I'd say is, ask it like like you're saying, ask the question. Push push dig in a little bit, you know, yeah i think for people that don't feel very confrontational or don't enjoy confrontation, it can be a little difficult to go in and be like, hey, like, it looks like you're just getting too stressed out to do anything.
00:51:27
Speaker
Right. And to say something like that to someone's face also feels rude sometimes to be like, hey, like, I think you're like, losing your shit a little bit you need to calm down which is really what needs to be said but it's very hard to say that yeah so i think one of the things that i've started doing when i noticed it with other people is sort of i think statements which is just being like again like i'm that person that doesn't like confrontation and still has to like push themselves too but i'll be like hey like tell me how this sounds but i think you're doing this
00:52:00
Speaker
And when you frame something like that, I've found that a lot of times people may agree with you. They may disagree with you. But at least you're framing it very clearly that this is my opinion. You have a say in this. So I could be like, hey, they um I think you're burning yourself out.
00:52:15
Speaker
I think you're getting too anxious about your work. And it looks to me like you're not doing this. What does that sound like to you? Has been... a way that I've approached it that feels less confrontational, feels like it engages a conversation as opposed to just being like, Hey man, like, Oh, wake up, stop this. You know?
00:52:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Almost what you're describing is like, it's, it's a lot more inviting. You're inviting that person to come into the shared space and like figure out this problem. Right.
00:52:49
Speaker
But I definitely have that been that person in the past, which is shaking the other person, like wake up and do the thing. And I just, I feel like I've made it worse in a lot of situations.
00:53:01
Speaker
Honestly, I'd like to hear the thoughts on this, but and sometimes I do feel like even being that person is better than like not asking something, you know? Like, right it being that person to be, like, overly aggressive and just be like, yo, like, shut the fuck and do this, sometimes will give you the jolt that you need.
00:53:19
Speaker
How that relationship with that person may be after that, that's that's a separate question, but, yeah you know, you ah yeah. Yeah, like, I think, like, especially if you're friends with someone, like, they can, like, like, there are times where, like, people have done things like that to me, and, like, I might get, like, annoyed in the moment, but, like, even if it didn't really help, and it... Yeah. Like, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Even if it doesn't, like, I feel like i I understand like if it's coming from a genuine place, like that's not what they intended. And so like, like, I mean, like we're, we're all not perfect people, right? Like I think that the least you can do is give someone else grace for like trying. And even if it's not necessarily in the best way, um, I will say like, I think the most important thing in those situations is to make that person feel safe because I think like that underlying anxiety, um,
00:54:13
Speaker
It's like when you're anxious, you feel unsafe. And I think that if someone responds like aggressively to you, like that can make it feel even harder and like make but make the environment feel even more like unsafe.
00:54:25
Speaker
And i think, um yeah, like, Yeah, like like I said, like there's only so much you can do. Like it's very easy again, like even if you approach things in the right way, sometimes like but when I'm procrastinating, I can get annoyed and be like, don't tell me if I'm not prioritizing this thing right. but You haven't been spending anywhere near as long as I have.
00:54:47
Speaker
um But yeah, I think it's just like trying your best to make them feel secure and like make them feel like, yeah, like they're doing okay and that they're in an okay place. Yeah, I should say.
00:54:59
Speaker
That's fair. ah love That's a much more, like, proper, like, suggestion. Like, as, depending on, like, your friendship with a person, yeah, be be aggressive if that feels fitting within the realm of your friendship. But, yeah, I think what you're getting to is, like, genuinely at our the right point here, which is, like, yeah, like, safety is important and, like,
00:55:19
Speaker
you know, depending on your situation, like maybe your friends are aggressive people and it's like its own like environment that feels safe, but inherently, yeah. Tough love. Tough love. Tough love. But no, inherently like make the other person, yeah, start lining them up, punching them, kicking them.
00:55:39
Speaker
I have a question.
Morning Challenges and Self-Compassion
00:55:41
Speaker
um
00:55:44
Speaker
So you guys kind of, I mean, coming back to like motivation a little bit, right? Like,
00:55:50
Speaker
I have kind of
00:55:54
Speaker
experienced this maybe in the last year and a half, maybe two years. um But this like kind of
00:56:04
Speaker
moment where, you know, like, You're waking up, right? You're in bed, you're waking, woken up. And then your brain is like telling you to get up and like, you know, you should get up and do the thing and yeah start your day or whatever tasks you need to do. But, and maybe it's like, and I don't know, like I found your brain is like yelling at you.
00:56:30
Speaker
Maybe there's some like persuading happening, you know, okay, I'm going to wake up at this time or whatever. Um, or right after I do this, right. Some cajoling happening, some trying to trick yourself to get up almost. yeah Um, but somehow you just can't, like, I feel like I've experienced this thing. Like I just can't get up for some reason.
00:56:55
Speaker
And yeah, it's, I haven't like, I haven't really figured out what that is, what happens. Like, is it fear? Is it like, is it exhaustion? Like, is it like, what is that thing? do you know what I'm talking about?
00:57:14
Speaker
And how do you like, how do you come out of that? Um, I mean, I'm someone who that happens a lot. Like that's a pretty regular thing for me. Um, And yeah, thats that's fundamentally just anxiety.
00:57:26
Speaker
Like when I am going to have a very stressful day and when there's stuff that I'm already anxious about, um or if I had like a very clear vision of what I wanted the day to look like, and maybe like I already read woke up late.
00:57:39
Speaker
um Like, yeah, that anxiety can make it even harder for me to get out of bed. um And like, Yeah, like and it feels like exhaustion. It feels like I literally am so tired, like I can't get out of bed, even though like fundamentally it's just that anxiety.
00:57:56
Speaker
um I'd say for me, like the biggest things that I've been working on are first, um like if you're already tired, like if you haven't gotten enough sleep, that's going to be so much harder to get out of. like It makes it so much worse.
00:58:08
Speaker
yeah um So just making sure I'm consistent about that. um I think the next thing is sort of softening my inner voice and like just giving, like, not like screaming at myself anymore, just being like, okay, like I understand why you're anxious, but like, you know, you're going to just feel worse. Like if you stay in bed, like, come on, let's try our best to like, just sit up. Let's try our best to like, um, get the day started and like, just do what we can now that we're here.
00:58:37
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I think softening my inner voice has helped a lot. And then when i can't get out of bed, um just giving myself grace, like just being like, I know that I'm trying my hardest. I know that I don't really want, to like, I don't want to stay in bed. Like I know that like, like I'm doing the best that I can. And if I can't like get out of bed any faster than than this, like, like, I mean, there's literally nothing I can do. Right. Like I know I'm trying my hardest and how, like how long it takes after that isn't something that's in my control.
00:59:12
Speaker
You know, like I just have to try my hardest and be okay with that. I think those are all like exactly like the the recommendations I'd make as well. you know Building off that like baby steps you know if you can't.
00:59:26
Speaker
you guys ever watch Kill Bill?
00:59:32
Speaker
I watched the first one. yeah There's a scene in Kill Bill that I always think about, which is wiggle your toe. ah For context, like this this person would have been comatose for many, many years and then woken up and then trying to will themselves to get up and get in a car and drive away. But in order to get there, she she stares at her big toe and just says, wiggle your toe, wiggle your toe.
00:59:57
Speaker
Right. Which is a nice visual motif for this idea of like, you just got to get yourself to do like the minimum ounce of effort that you can. Something so small that, you know, it'd be, it'd be dumb not to be able to do. Right.
01:00:10
Speaker
So it's like, you're so in bed sometimes, maybe it's, you know, move your finger, you know, Just just yeah shift positions a little bit. Sometimes that helps. Sometimes it may not. I think to here's point, sometimes you just need the rest, you know, like shit. Like you can, you can force yourself to sleep five hours and keep getting up and doing work just because you have a lot of stuff to do. But at some point your body will not listen to you. And sometimes it'll just be like, Hey,
01:00:40
Speaker
you need the rest, which is, I think, built into into this idea of like softening your voice. I think that's a very nice way of putting it, which is yeah you just have to be kind to yourself.
Changing Routines and Grounding Techniques
01:00:50
Speaker
It's okay because you just need that time to recover.
01:00:54
Speaker
And in other ways, honestly, if you if you really need to get up sometimes, change of environment sometimes helps. I mean, this is very circumstantial, but if I know for a fact I have to get up at 6 a.m., and I know I've had struggles with this,
01:01:09
Speaker
I won't even sleep in my bed. I'll go sleep on the couch or something. I'll go just shift of environment sometimes. It's good for like that yeah quick moment of like, if you know you're exhausted, you know, you're having a tough time, try sleeping on the couch. If you have to wake up at like 6am and catch a flight and you feel like you don't feel fully confident. in it
01:01:29
Speaker
Right. Like trying to break the pattern a little bit. Exactly. New, new stimulus. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, i do the exact same thing.
01:01:41
Speaker
Like, I always ah sleep on the couch if I'm going to get less than, like like, if I get, like, less than, like, five and a half hours of sleep. um And, yeah, I feel like it helps me get up in the morning. And it's also, like, at least it's almost like telling myself that, like, yeah, today's going to be kind of a shit day, but it's okay. Like, it's like a bit of mental preparation for the day. Yeah.
01:02:06
Speaker
Honestly, yeah. yeah Even on those like shitty days, like I don't know if you guys do this, but like journaling does help. I say this as someone that is not consistent with journaling at all. like I'll do it for like a week and then like there you go, like not doing it again. But like ah logging your small wins...
01:02:27
Speaker
It doesn't feel like a lot, but inherently you find yourself remembering a lot more about what you did, which yeah sometimes unconsciously is like a huge motivation sometimes.
01:02:39
Speaker
Yeah. Like, especially, like if you're already tired, like you're not going to remember all of those small wins you had. And like, even if it doesn't help the most in the moment, I feel like sometimes looking back and being like, oh shit, I actually did a lot more than I thought that day.
01:02:54
Speaker
Like even that can be helpful. Yeah.
01:02:58
Speaker
So you mentioned like wiggling toes is interesting because it suggests. It suggests that I'm a feet person. Exactly. Yes. that That was not suggested. You just chose to drop that one out of nowhere. I think you just outed yourself. That was your excuse to mention that. Your outie has a foot footage.
01:03:24
Speaker
I choose to die. I throw myself under the plane. But I feel like it suggests the wiggling toes thing. It suggests that like It's some kind of, it makes me feel like it's some kind of like dopamine hole that you're in where it's like, even like ah small amount of movement generates some dopamine that can then generate, you know, a chain of events that can get you up basically. Yeah. Like, so like a spark. yeah Yeah. Is what I'm imagining by that. Yeah.
01:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. It's interesting because I feel like it's not a lack of motivation, right? Like, I feel like it's important to say that it's not like, oh, how do I get myself motivated?
01:04:14
Speaker
um Unless, I mean, you can disagree with me, but like, I feel like it's not a lack of motivation. It's just for some reason, maybe it's that anxiety that you're talking about.
01:04:25
Speaker
Yeah. Is that like my body and my mind are just not in sync at all. Yeah. yeah I think that's that's the right way of putting it sometimes. Because like motivation, I think, is the big scary concept that like will always come back and haunt you. being like okay like Your bottom line is you have no motivation. But as with any situation, that the nuances of it are that, hey, like you do feel anxious about something.
01:04:47
Speaker
You do feel scared or you just feel like there There's something underlying that will often keep you from going towards that, right? Yeah. So yeah, the I agree with you in that and saying that like motivation is the big scary term that masks the underlying stuff that either is being addressed or not.
01:05:09
Speaker
Yeah. And like, that's why kind of like, like I've been saying, like, I think it's much better to think of it as an emotional like issue as opposed to a motivational one um in terms of like,
01:05:20
Speaker
what you actually need to do to get over that. And in terms of what you said about like the mind in the body being out of sync, like, I honestly think that that's like, you know, like a very deep and like very important and like point about all of this.
01:05:33
Speaker
um And something that I've been trying to think about and keep in mind more is that like, I think that when the mind and the body get out of sync like that, like, like when we have, like, when we have like,
01:05:49
Speaker
emotional problems or like yeah they're like we have like mental health problems and things like that it almost always primarily manifests through like that disconnect between the mind and the body and i find like that can be a very like i feel like sometimes now like focusing more on how my body feels as opposed to what my mind is telling me can give me a lot more clarity about how i'm feeling and like the state i'm in and um Yeah, like focusing on those physical sensations can help ground you um and help like, yeah, like start that process of like um getting over that or like dealing with that more effectively.
01:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's that common activity. I think it's what are five things around you that you can see, four things around you that you can hear, you know. so i've I've done this activity before with other people sometimes that I think seem like they're anxious. and like Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. you know But it's definitely a step in the right direction to be like, hey, here's a means of grounding yourself for a second.
01:06:54
Speaker
you know yeah It's kind of like yeah just pulling yourself out of your mind. right like You just get lost in it and all those abstractions you make in your head and you just forget that you live in the real world. And there's like so much stuff around you.
01:07:05
Speaker
feel like i feel like once
01:07:11
Speaker
you really, you can finally identify with, I mean, the things that helped me is a lot, a lot is like, once I started being able to ground, ground myself in a way, mean, I feel like people say ground myself, but like, sometimes it's like hard to understand what they mean.
01:07:26
Speaker
Um, but now I finally get it where it's like, the moments where I felt that is when I just feel like I'm I'm just really aware of my existence, you know, yeah the physical space that I take up in the world and the stuff around me.
01:07:45
Speaker
And just like once I've practiced, started to like gain that perspective, I think that's helped me like pull out of my head a lot more quickly.
01:07:59
Speaker
hmm.
Existence, Presence, and Communication
01:08:01
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, if there are people who practice Buddhism, they can correct me if I'm butchering the concepts here. But that's always what I took away from that explanation of like ah being at a state where you are not worried about material things. You're not worried about all these like minute details, but it's just like a state of being. It's like almost like a state of like autoplay that gets you to just true peacefulness you know uh that was like a thought that kept coming back to me sometimes during this journey of like hey like it's okay to like you're trying to get yourself to like go absent-minded in a way or like not nitpick over every last detail you know or for for another example like if you're running you know like that's similar to what a runner's high feels like sometimes where
01:08:54
Speaker
You're not thinking about the fact that you're running at this pace or that each step is like this distance or the time. It's just you're in that moment and there's nothing else around you that impacts your your sensations at that moment.
01:09:10
Speaker
That's like the ideal state to get to. But everything else is in ah in the way of trying to get to there sometimes, you know?
01:09:18
Speaker
Yeah. I am not my thoughts. I am the thing experiencing my thoughts. And yeah I think like for me, it's been about not confusing those two and like allowing myself to just to be clear and experience things without always having that mediation in between with my thinking. Yeah, absolutely.
01:09:43
Speaker
Did you ever feel like on this journey, like during these experiences, um did you feel numb ever? Like, is that a sensation? Yeah. Like numb to other emotions because of, you know, what you're going through? Yeah, for sure.
01:09:56
Speaker
Like it would be,
01:10:00
Speaker
i think the numbness would set in once there was ah feeling like overwhelmingness sometimes, you know, being like, Hey, there's too much stuff going on. And yeah.
01:10:12
Speaker
Almost in a way of like the other side of the coin, which is I'm not going to get myself to get out of my bed for the sake of not experiencing more stuff. You know, it's it's like getting into a catatonic state where it's just like, I don't want to move.
01:10:29
Speaker
I don't want to test the limits of this right now. Or it doesn't feel going back to the idea of your body not being in sync with your mind. You don't feel like you want to like move, you know.
01:10:44
Speaker
So yeah when you, when this stuff was, you know, this sensation was at its peak, like how did you kind of. Like, what was that like? Like thawing the numbness, you know, and kind of returning to or ah creating some kind of equilibrium or some kind of like, like, what was it like getting to a state where like you could feel again and feel okay with what you were doing? Yeah, for sure.
01:11:10
Speaker
I think a large part of it was starting to reach out to people for for assistance as well. um Like when i was talking about feeling an onset of a panic attack. I think it was like 1am or something.
01:11:22
Speaker
And I'd walked over to my friend's dorm I was like, Hey man, are you still awake? And he's like, I'm about to knock out. And I'm like, all right, like come out of your dorm for a little bit. Like having him out there and just talking to him, like kind of like shook me out of like the kind of like fugue state I felt like I was getting into.
01:11:38
Speaker
Similarly, like reaching out to family as well. I think that's when I started telling my parents about the sensation of like, anxiety, telling my mom, my sister, my dad being like, Hey, like, this is something that I feel happening and you know like that in itself can feel very scary because uh you know indian parents it's one of these pre perceptions of like hey like anxiety isn't real right yeah eat some fruit and go sleep uh the ayurvedic remedy exactly yeah and it wasn't a lack of that either like you know my mom would talk to like the priest and stuff and she'd be like okay say this one like prayer like five times a day if you say this it'll help you and yeah
01:12:18
Speaker
Quite honestly, I am more appreciative of that despite that sounding like so. Like, hey, out in the ephemeral world of this fantasy. solution.
01:12:29
Speaker
Because sometimes that could be the thing that grounds you. But ah that was also its own interesting conversation where it would be sweet to me to hear my mom ask me, like, I think when I moved to New York, like many, many years after all this stuff had happened, she'd asked me one day just being like, hey, how's your anxiety? Like, do you feel like your anxiety is still there? And I was like, this is crazy to me. Like, I didn't know that you were still tracking this as like a thing that was that had happened.
01:12:56
Speaker
And being asked that was a nice reminder of like, hey, like these people are not there to like antagonize you there. They remember these things and like seeking that help helped out a ton, you know, because it became this thing where I was talking to my mom where she'd be like, OK, how are you feeling today? or she'd check in on that.
01:13:13
Speaker
And a lot of times that sensation of being checked in on, at least for me, that brought some life back to me. It was like, OK, like I'm not going through this alone. There are some people that give a shit about this because Again, like it can get scary and like the descending thoughts can start becoming more worrying at a certain point to feel like, hey, like I'm just going through this by myself.
01:13:38
Speaker
There's nothing else that can like help me in this, you know, like those traps do exist. And having those people there can snap you out, which helped me out a lot.
01:13:50
Speaker
And then, so what was the point where you decided like that you wanted to switch out of CS? like Was that like something that was in your head and it took you a long time to come to terms with and actually
Advice for College Students
01:14:05
Speaker
execute on? Or was it like a light bulb type? yeah Because i feel like I feel like a lot of people go into college CS that you know without knowing if it's what they want to do, myself included.
01:14:17
Speaker
um And a lot of people just go through experiences like you did. um And for a lot of people, they just realize maybe it's not for them, but they stick through it and maybe end up having some experiences like that because because there's so much stigma around. Mm hmm.
01:14:35
Speaker
moving out of it and trying something else like, oh, this is not the most optimal path anymore. This is not like, there's so much shame and stigma. And let's say there's a person right in college right now who's in like a very similar spot that you were in there in CS or pre-med or law or whatever. And they have this time. They grew up with this tunnel vision, like mindset of like, okay, I need to be successful in this.
01:15:01
Speaker
They're not liking it. They're not able to, it just feels wrong. You know, like ah what advice do you give someone like that? Yeah. I mean, I'd say have conversations.
01:15:14
Speaker
That's a big thing I'd recommend.
01:15:19
Speaker
Have a lot of conversations around
01:15:22
Speaker
What specifically you want to get into, just talk to people about what they're doing and see what piques your interest. Um, I think the biggest way to approach this is based off of what sounds interesting to you and following that, just understanding what that looks like.
01:15:39
Speaker
And it doesn't even have to be something that may be adjacent to what you're already looking at. Right. If you're sitting on the technology side of things and you talk to a biomed kid and what they're doing in the biology class sounds interesting to you, that's at least a conversation being had and that's an interest that's being built in some way.
01:15:56
Speaker
I think there's a lot that needs to be done towards just getting to know what you like versus what you don't like. I think understanding that is always like a good way to approach that.
01:16:08
Speaker
And right on top of that, I'd say talk to facility, talk to professors, especially if you're a college kid. Email professors and just be like, hey, look I want to like ask you and like pick your brain about something and try to talk to them about the why specifically they chose this field.
01:16:23
Speaker
And describe your situation as well. like People have had experiences similar that they'll guide you on the right path or they'll tell you something that might pique your interest. you know That's how those are the... Yeah.
01:16:38
Speaker
No, honestly, the thing you said about like learning... what your likes versus your dislikes. Like, I feel like so many people just struggle with that, you know? Like, I feel like, because that interest would, feel like I was in a very similar, even now, I feel like to some extent, it's like a lot of things are interesting to me.
01:16:59
Speaker
You know what i mean? But like, But I think the way our minds work when we grow up in these environments where it's just like, what is the optimal path? What is optimal path? Right. Like that like, and dislike it's lost. Yeah.
01:17:14
Speaker
Like you don't even learn to recognize what you're really interested in um or what you really enjoy. So it's just like, if it's not CS, what else, you know?
01:17:25
Speaker
And then it's just like everything else, like things feel interesting, but then it's like, it's hard to justify switching because it's like not the optimal, you know, and you're just trained to look for the optimal, optimal path all the time.
01:17:42
Speaker
Yeah. It feels like an indulgence. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like you don't deserve it. Like how dare you go appreciate the arts today? Like, don't you have an assignment to work on or something? Like, no, just if you're struggling, I'll say this.
01:17:58
Speaker
If you feel like what you're in right now, it doesn't sound interesting to you. Find out what you like and don't like, not even from the goal of figuring out what your new major or what your new life purpose is going to be, just to find yourself appreciating something.
01:18:12
Speaker
Because when you like something, you feel like you're in a good mood. And maybe you find that this is something that you want to actually study. And if you don't, at least you had a good day. And that is a big win, you know.
Expanding Comfort Zones and Seeking Support
01:18:25
Speaker
Uh, outside of that, I'd say make yourself uncomfortable, make new friends. If you feel like your social circle is all focused on the same thing, feel free to open up your social circle, go to places that you haven't been and try to talk to people that you haven't talked to before.
01:18:39
Speaker
If you feel anxious and worried about that, externalize that, tell those people being like, Hey, yeah, like I'm interested in this. Honestly, it's intimidating for me to be here. Cause I don't know anyone in this field or this seems new to me.
01:18:52
Speaker
And that in itself will open you up to people taking you in. you know When you tell someone that you don't feel like you belong in this space, you'll always end up finding someone that'll find you and say, hey, here's how you find your path. And that's a really beautiful thing. You'll always be able to find that path, whether that be through a professor or through useful social circles.
01:19:14
Speaker
you know College, especially, is a great place to do that. Even a community college where it might not feel like there's as much of a community. There are real people here who have gone through either the exact same sensations you're going through or have felt something similar.
01:19:28
Speaker
And if you multiply that by all the people you're surrounded by, that's 300, 500, 1,000 people can learn from. that have experience that we can all learn from um boys. I think and we got everything. I think that was good.
01:19:42
Speaker
Cool. I guess we'll just wrap up. Yeah. So I guess we're nearing the end now. But was such a great conversation. Ganesh, thank you so much for coming. Thank for having me. Yes.
01:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. And we should do this again. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me, guys. Appreciate you guys. For anyone still listening, ah don't be afraid to call WarmLines or for additional resources.
01:20:06
Speaker
Call your local WarmLine. That's W-A-R-M. Search up WarmLines near you. Those are just... 24 seven phone numbers that can call and talk to someone, get you out of your headspace. Similarly, the suicide hotline is a thing that you can call even if you're not having those types of ideations, make sure you reach out to those people and reach out to them if you just feel like you need someone to talk to.
01:20:26
Speaker
It's a huge resource. They're doing great work. Check all this stuff out. And I'm appreciative that you guys have created this space this space to be able to talk about these things.
01:20:37
Speaker
Hopefully warm lenses get fucking defunded. yeah so Warm lines are doing DEI now? Crazy. but Warm
01:20:54
Speaker
I hate this. I hate this timeline. It's the worst timeline. The darkest timeline. I hate that I can fucking make these jokes.
01:21:05
Speaker
I'm laughing on audio, but I'm crying in reality. Yes. No, no, no. let's Let's go flood their lines. the Next time you call the warm line, if you get engaged tone, just know it's because of this podcast specifically.
01:21:22
Speaker
I'm going to cut that Damn it. No. I don't know what the point of having that be.