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#6 - Self Worth / Neuroticism
116 Plays1 year ago
Our first episode going into the boof without a plan.
We talk about soo many things including being neurotic, lost in your head, and figuring out where we fit snd what our self worth really is.
Wow, we really are neurotic and surprisingly similar.
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Transcript
Welcome and Summer Heat
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello friends. Welcome to the blood rotation. Are you ready?
00:00:53
Speaker
It's the ob obligatory awkward intro again. Just hit the ground running, never think about it beforehand.
Seattle's Unique Weather
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Pineapple Blunt Rotation.
00:01:04
Speaker
ah Yeah, welcome back everyone. This is number six. I hope everyone's enjoying this hot hot summer my god summer of not like us summer espresso summer of What else man? What what else is this the summer summer of literal heat? Oh Literal heat. ah Yes. Yes. Musical heat and literal heat. My God, I'm fucking melting over here. It's like 90 degrees in Seattle. And this man has it even worse. Yeah, New York has been pretty rough last couple of weeks. It's just so, so hot, especially at night.
00:01:39
Speaker
That's the thing, man. That's the thing. you You don't appreciate it about the West Coast. in the way I can't even say West Coast, which is California. like Yeah. It doesn't matter if it's 110 degrees in the day, like at night, at least it's. Cools down. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Even here, it's usually like, okay, in the night. Seattle's in that, it's kind of like a valley, right? Because of the Olympics on the west, so it kind of traps the heat. Oh, yeah.
00:02:09
Speaker
Gets a little fucky over here. People don't realize this, but in Seattle, it's like three hours from the ocean. it's not It's not on the Pacific Ocean by any means. Oh, yeah. like Yeah, the Puget Sound, there's a lot of bodies of water, but it's not and they are connected to the Pacific Ocean, but it's it's not not truly a coastal city. Coastal, yeah. That's like the whole, I feel like the whole like sound system is like so interesting, and that's why i like the weather is like um like fuck you over here because it's like yeah it's not like coastal like weather in like a traditional sense it's just like yeah the sound like bring you like uh the sound brings in almost like uh some like coastal like
00:02:51
Speaker
like ocean breezes and stuff, but then like, like you were saying, it gets trapped in by like the Cascades and like the Olympics. Very interesting. Like if in like September, October, if you go like a little bit to the East where like Yakima is and those, yeah it's so much warmer. Like Seattle will be like 60 degrees maybe in the day, 55, but you go to like Yakima and it's like we're Spokane and it's like 70.
Personal Growth and Emotional Challenges
00:03:15
Speaker
And it's like the same latitude, same everything. It's just like water.
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. How is it? I guess I've never been to like the coast of Seattle. I wonder, I mean, not the coast of Seattle, the coast of Washington. I wonder how the weather is over there. Well, I mean, it's just. Colder. Yeah, it's a little bit colder. Yeah, I guess I don't know what I expected. Closer to like San Francisco. ah Go there when we need to escape the heat. Have you been holding it, man?
00:03:49
Speaker
Have things been for you recently other than the fucking heat? Things have been interesting. I mean, ah it's been a, it's definitely been an interesting couple of months. I think I'm definitely like understanding a lot of things that somehow like a lot of things that I've been dealing with for a long time. Yeah. That are just like a part of me, but just understanding them a little bit better and just spending time kind of going through it and.
00:04:14
Speaker
But I mean, other than that, it's been it's been fun. It's been lots of people visiting in and out of New York, you know, so showing them around, going to reconnecting with people and connecting with new people as well. It's all been it's all been a big a big um chaos. You know, it's it's it's a lot of it's a lot of stuff going on. yeah Even from a creative perspective, just trying a lot of different things. you This podcast included. Yeah. So it's been good, chaotic. Yeah. And all the bad stuff is stuff that needs to be come out explored.
Emotional Overload and Trauma
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I got it to you. How are you are here?
00:04:58
Speaker
Oh man, I'm in a very similar place, but very chaotic, but also in a very productive way. um So I actually, I'm actually on leave for work right now. um Yeah, like there's a lot that's been, caught that came up in my life. Like a lot of like, ah just like emotions and like trauma that I wasn't being like open and honest with myself about. And um over the last few months, like that kind of all just hit me at once. And like, it's been a lot, it's been very intense, like,
00:05:28
Speaker
finally like feeling all of that and processing all of that but at the same time like it's something that was like very necessary where it's like i feel like for for like literally years like i felt almost like trapped like there were like fundamental things about my life that i knew i wasn't like being honest with myself about and like fundamental like like yeah like Just these fundamental problems that I feel like were holding me back, and I finally feel like now that I can like see them clearly and process them, like I can start to deal with them.
00:06:00
Speaker
so like i've like Things have been really like chaotic in my life. There have been like so many changes. like I really think I've changed more in like the last few months than I have in like literally years.
00:06:12
Speaker
um But I'm very happy about it like even though like it is like very intense like going through all of this like once when I first started like realizing and like processing this stuff like when it like first hit me like literally for like three or four days like I would get like maximum like one one and a half hours of sleep every night and And there were multiple nights where I like just couldn't sleep at all, and I would just like spend most of the day just like sobbing because like I was finally allowing myself to feel like that hurt and that pain in a way that like I had never let myself before. So it's been, like like I said, like very intense dealing with all of this stuff, but at the same ten time, like I feel like more free and more in control ah of my life and myself than I have like maybe ever. So yeah, intense, but in a good way.
00:07:00
Speaker
That's great, man. I'm glad to hear it all. I mean, even though it's really, sounds like a really gruesome process going through all of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a lot. It's definitely cathartic. Um, I mean, that's why I had to go out and leave for work. It's like, I was trying to like balance all this while keeping on track with work. And I was just like, no, this is not, this is not going to happen when it's like 90% of my brain space is just being occupied, like dealing with all of this stuff. But yeah.
00:07:28
Speaker
it's like a Like I always say, like for me it's the problems and like the issues that I feel like I can't acknowledge and I can't recognize that scare me more than the ones that I'm dealing with. like It's so much better to like finally get a grasp on this stuff like after like i said like years of having these feelings and not being able to understand where they were coming from. like Feeling like I was holding myself back in so many ways and not understanding why.
00:07:53
Speaker
That makes sense. Like just being able to put a name on things. Yeah. i'm Like, Oh, that's, that's why this is happening. That's why I feel like that. Yeah. It's just so powerful. Yeah. Cause you're not questioning it. Yeah, exactly. Cause before identifying it, it's like you feel it and you're second guessing yourself. If you're even supposed to be feeling something like that.
00:08:16
Speaker
yeah Or if there's something just, or you're just being a baby, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. you You blame yourself for like having the feelings that you're feeling. And once you're you finally have like clarity about that, it's like, okay, like you were saying, right? like you You can stop blaming yourself and start working on like actually dealing with
Guilt, Self-Worth, and Emotions
00:08:32
Speaker
things. And that clarity like matters so much. Yeah. Is there anything anything you want to share?
00:08:39
Speaker
um i don't know i think i'm still kind of like going through it in terms of like the specific feelings like i said like i think it's just like a lot of trauma that i wasn't being like open with myself about and i think it is very much tied into like uh yeah like it's it's about like like like you were saying like being able to recognize like how much certain things from my past were still affecting me, even though like like after like so many years, it feels like, oh, I should be over these things. Oh, like why am I letting it affect me so much? And a lot of times, like I wouldn't even realize like that's what was affecting me. So I would just blame myself for these like unhealthy like habits, these like patterns that I would fall into. And so it's, like on one hand, like being able to
00:09:25
Speaker
understand and accept like how much those things still hurt me to a certain extent but on the other hand like acknowledging like the ways in which I've been like almost like hurting myself by like blaming myself for like feeling that way in the first place um yeah yeah I'd say like those are really the two biggest things that I've been like yeah wrestling with Like I said, for specifics, yeah, I'm still too, it's still too raw for me to really like express it directly, you know.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah. Did you ever feel guilty for not guilty? I feel like I suppressed a lot of stuff yeah for a long time. and And obviously because in part I didn't understand it, but also in part because I was supposed to i had this idea of had this idea that I was supposed to be happy and I was supposed to be content with my life, especially like yeah especially when I was in my last relationship. I don't know. I feel like I wouldn't I would share things within that relationship, but yeah in a way that preserved the, I don't know, it's almost like if you were to say, if you're in a relationship and you were to come and say, hey, i something is wrong, I'm depressed, something yeah something is, I'm dealing with some stuff. It's like, you almost feel guilty for doing it because it points a finger to the fact that maybe, I don't know where I'm going with this.
00:10:57
Speaker
No, I mean, I kind of like get what you're pointing at. And I think like what you're saying about guilt like that is like a huge part of what was preventing me from understanding like how I was feeling in the first place. I really feel like, yeah, like that was that was what prevented me from like really processing how I was feeling for so long. Because on one hand, these things would be so painful, and they would hurt so much, but then I would feel like guilty, and I would feel like dumb, and I would feel stupid for for hurting so much, and for like having for like still holding onto that pain, and I would almost like beat myself up over it.
00:11:36
Speaker
and it was like I'd feel guilty for hurting but at the same time like that prevented me from and I would like I would obviously acknowledge that on some level but I would never really let myself feel that pain and I would almost like beat myself up over it And then like there was also this extra layer of guilt, like I said, because like like it was almost like by not acknowledging it and not processing it, like I did things which also hurt me. And I did things which would hurt the people around me. And that would even like fuel the guilt even more. And it would feel like, oh, like this is all your fault because like you're still holding on to this hurt and this pain. like You should be over it.
Self-Worth and Identity in Society
00:12:16
Speaker
when it was like the issue was that I was never really letting myself acknowledge how much it hurt in the first place and how much it hurt to like continue beating myself up over it. I think what I was talking about the idea that you're supposed to be happy you know what I mean like you have you have this amazing person in your life you're right like not just person I don't want to start with that even you have this you've gotten this great education you've you know you have this good job you have the this amazing person in your life this person that you see that you respect and you love and everyone around you respects and loves and yeah and you have a good relationship and even besides all that there's something wrong yeah and to kind of it's like really hard to acknowledge it talk about it and let yourself feel it yeah have you ever felt like you know you don't necessarily like
00:13:12
Speaker
you don't feel long somewhere. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. So it's it's been, it's interesting. I used to feel a lot like that, especially, especially because I've moved around a lot. I think I would find myself in these situations where You know, you kind of feel like an outsider, and it's kind of hard to break into, you know, social groups and stuff like that. Even beyond that, I think, let's say let's say you come to, it it comes to your knowledge that there is a there iss a group chat.
00:13:43
Speaker
There's a group chat that you're not in. That's the classic. And you feel like you're supposed to be in it because it's like all these people that are in your life and that you trust and consider your own. And let's say you find out that there's a group chat that you're not in.
00:14:06
Speaker
I don't know. For me, it used to feel like I'm falling suddenly. And i can I couldn't even explain it then. And I think I can explain it now, finally, after realizing it. But it was like ah it was like I was falling. like I'm i'm like not supported. There's gaping. There's like this hole that forms in my chest. yeah And it's just like kind of like panic mode.
00:14:31
Speaker
yeah And I don't really know what to do, what to say to anyone. Like, I'm just really anxious about it. And it's like suddenly you're questioning if these people even like you or not. Yeah. and And so I feel like I used to, I used to feel that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But no, last week, last week something happened and it happened first time in a while that I came across this situation where I found that, Hey, there's a, you know,
00:15:02
Speaker
Someone mentioned some group chat with some guys from college. And I wasn't in it, obviously, or else I would have known the context that was being talked about. So normally, the same I would have gone into panic mode. i would yeah like like my world would have started crashing. yeah And I felt an initial, this time I felt like an initial like slight shock, but then I was able to just hold myself and be like, hey, like, you know, maybe, maybe you don't belong in that group chat. Maybe, yeah and that's okay. Like it's okay because you fit in all these other places. Maybe you don't fit there. And I was just able to see that a little bit, like, oh, okay, maybe
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense to me. this And you have to i mean you have to trust the people around you, too. you know like you yeah and like That nobody has ill intentions, right? like sometimes Sometimes people forget. sometimes yeah But more than that, it's just you maybe you don't fit there, and that's fine. Because you're not supposed to fit in every place. right yeah you're By definition, you're unique.
00:16:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got you. It's funny that you mentioned that because I think that that exact feeling that you're talking about is part of what made me realize all of this and come to all these realizations, which is just like I like like you were saying that feeling of like a falling of that like hole almost in yourself. Like I realize that that like that feeling was almost like this like emptiness in myself like this hole in my this hole where like my self-worth should have been and I realized that the reason why things like that would make me so anxious would make me feel like so bad about myself was because I didn't truly believe that like my worth myself my life and myself like
00:16:54
Speaker
had value. And so when I wasn't included in all of these things, like if I didn't fit in somewhere, that was almost like proof to me. It's like if I couldn't be everything to everyone, it was like my entire like self-worth would like crumble. And it would feel like it was proof that like I didn't have value. Like people don't actually want that around. And that emptiness was like that emptiness in myself like growing because I would see something like that.
00:17:19
Speaker
And I think that like, like you're saying, like now that I've finally realized that and I'm finally aware, like that feeling's kind of like just dissolved because like I can recognize that now and like acknowledge that like, no, it's okay. Like I can resist that part of myself and have like confidence. Like, like you're saying, like trust that like, no, like people wouldn't like have me around. Like if they didn't actually like value me and they didn't appreciate having me around, like, yeah.
Identity Formation and Environment
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, like that's definitely like a huge part of like what I've been realizing. That's you're right. It's the self worth. Yeah, that's that's it to like that self worth is oftentimes it's just placed and you're the people around you how the people around you perceive you right there validation their validation and if yeah you find and it's like you're constantly looking for places where that validation isn't satisfied, right? yeah You take that as a sign that something is wrong, you're not enough. Yeah, exactly. And it's almost like i like I valued my own life and my own opinion so little that it was like the only way that I could show to myself that I had any worth or value was from other people, from their validations. When in reality, like I need to
00:18:34
Speaker
like value my own life. I need to value like my own interests and passions and be like if even if like tons of people like don't like me like as long as like Like I should have like security in myself and my own value, right? Is there a different framework that like, what what is the what is the learning here exactly, right? Like, yeah yeah, we can say now having seen other places in which we fit, right? You can say, okay, it's okay that I don't fit there because I fit in all these other places, yeah right? And I will continue to find other places that I fit. But when you're in an environment like school,
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, you're surrounded by a lot of the same kind of people. And not just same kind of people, but like one or two different ideals in which you have to fit. Yeah, throughout school, even even in college, like if you didn't have a diverse group of friends, like for me, like I had some friends like around, but my core group was my core, the core people I knew were all people in tech from yeah the Bay Area. Right. So it was like a very like insular Yeah, limiting, you know, like limiting perspective, limiting kind of love them all to death. But it's yeah. But I think it prevented me from experiencing different. Yeah, yeah, ways of thinking different, different, different types of people different. Yeah. And so I'm like, Oh, I would have fit in those situations. and And I would I might have fit better if I might have fit in different in ways that I had it. Yeah. In that courtroom. Yeah, I got you.
00:20:13
Speaker
No, I know exactly what you're talking about. And I think like, yeah, I mean, there's just like so much there about like, almost like the relationship between like your own sense of self and like the environment you're in. Because it's like, if you're in like a certain community or a certain environment, there's certain like,
00:20:27
Speaker
There's always going to be like certain ideals or certain models for like how you should live your life, like that you're going to judge yourself against. You know how certain people like, for example, if they're in a very stressful, like a very toxic environment, some people sort of like give into that and sort of go along with it. And some people almost like rebel against it and like fight back. Like for me, I feel like those two different like ways of reacting to that.
00:20:50
Speaker
are very much tied to your own like sense of self-worth and how willing you are to stand up for yourself. like If you're very like secure in your own value as a person, then you're going to be able to say, like no, like fuck off. like Just because I don't fit this ideal, like I don't need to do that. But I think for like the vast majority of people, like you're saying like most people like like get, and I think like it's almost unavoidable for instance a certain extent. like Humans are social animals, right? like We do like like value the opinions of others and like that is important to us. um So I think, like yeah, like you're saying, like that can be very hard it can be very hard to like have trust in your own value and trust have trust in yourself and even like figure out, again, like, oh, like who am I really? What sort of environments do I fit into if like you only have this like one-sided
00:21:38
Speaker
like, context or community that you live in. I think that's why a lot of people find themselves, like, for example, in college, because they're finally forced out of that environment. And they're like, oh, there are other ways of living. There are these other communities that I can fit into. And like, maybe that's where I
Art, Culture, and Self-Awareness
00:21:51
Speaker
actually belong. belong And I think that's why a lot of people get that in college. But I don't think it's necessarily just that, like, for me, at least, like, I get that a lot from like art or like philosophy, where a lot of times, like, things like that can also give you such different experiences and like insight into like,
00:22:07
Speaker
different experiences and perspectives that can kind of make you like realize more about yourself, maybe realize more about the world, and more about like where exactly you fit in. And I think like for me, like all of those things have kind of like fit in and like been a part of like me like coming to be be secure in who I am, like coming even to realize like who I really am and like ah the sorts of like communities and environments that I fit into.
00:22:36
Speaker
I don't know if that really answers what you were asking. yeah like You have to realize like the way you're living is an option. Yeah, exactly. it's And you don't you don't really see that until you talk to people from Yeah. Other backgrounds, right? 100%. I mean, and that, you say college, I don't think it to have really happened for me in college. it's It's happened to me mostly in the last year, if I'm being really honest. Like, I met so many people in the city in New York that, you know, just different things matter to them. the The things that matter to them day to day, it's just a little bit different.
00:23:14
Speaker
and and And I'm saying New York, but I mean, on my travels, like I met so many people from Europe, even within Europe, between different countries, even within the same country. with you People are different from different parts of the world. yeah You know, people in Costa Rica are different. it's It's just like talking to them, understanding what issues they face.
00:23:34
Speaker
what problems they have, what makes them happy, what makes them happy, what makes them content. Just learning all that puts all of your, this framework that you've been living life with in perspective. And it's just that, it's just a framework that you you are free as a human being to modify at your own will. yeah oh no years and But you don't even realize that until you go out and talk to these people.
00:24:01
Speaker
Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely feel the same way. Yeah, I wouldn't say that really happened for me in college either. Like, yeah, it's definitely more of something that's happened ah afterwards. And I think like it like those conversations almost come from like a variety of perspectives. Like I think like therapy it was a huge thing.
00:24:19
Speaker
of sort of like breaking out of the cage of my mind, like breaking out of like my own perspective and like the limitations I was placing on myself, talking to other people, like you said, from like different like backgrounds, like seeing like, oh, like seeing how differently people look at things, seeing like, like even being able to realize that like, oh, like I didn't even really like,
00:24:38
Speaker
realized doing something like that was a choice. like i didn't like I was so like stuck in my perspective that it didn't ever even come to me as a possibility that like I could look at things a certain way or I could live my life a certain way. Like like you were saying, like having those different perspectives, again, like listening to like ah like songs or listening to ah like podcasts. cho like engaging with like pieces of art, which of again, like giving me these like huge interest insights into like ways of life that like I had just don't understand. like For example, um one of my favorite like ah YouTubers, is this like um he's like an art critic who when he started his channel, he was like he literally worked at a pizza place.
00:25:21
Speaker
Like he was like a blue collar worker, like barely like affording to like pay for a home. He lived in his van, like just doing van life, like driving around like the US and like he's got into this place that like we're now like just because like he's so like thoughtful and he has like such interesting like perspectives.
00:25:38
Speaker
like He literally makes 120K a year like off his Patreon. And like it's so interesting like getting that sort of perspective from someone like that, where it's like someone who's like struggled their whole life like to get to a position where that we almost like take for granted, and like the sorts of perspectives they have on things like Silicon Valley and like that sort of Bay Area culture that we take for granted. like Yeah, like you're saying. like I feel like those like all of these like these are all just different ways of like having conversations with other people and like getting insights into those
Perfectionism and Mental Health
00:26:10
Speaker
perspectives. I feel like it was that it was also just I feel like I was an open to the world.
00:26:15
Speaker
You know what I mean? like I just wasn't ah had my i have kind of decided what things mattered. I don't know if I had decided or if they were decided for me. I don't i don't know. But yeah it was me, it was my family, my career, my my girlfriend, and my framework for what a perfect life was. And that was it. Nothing else mattered. And my all of my security and my comfort lied within those parameters. yeah And somehow, like within those parameters, I managed to become so neurotic yeah about my entire fucking life, yeah even though like that was it. And maybe because that was it, that I was so neurotic. But I would hyperfixate on like how perfect my life had to be. Everything had to be a certain way. yeah yeah And I was was not.
00:27:08
Speaker
open to anything else. i Anything else, when I tried to inject anything else outside of those five things, it would just overwhelm the fuck out of me. I just couldn't make space for anything else, working out. And I would try to do it, but I would always be so frustrated because I was able to fit it in. I know exactly how you feel, dude. Holy shit.
00:27:33
Speaker
and it would just cause so much anxiety, and then my world would start crumbling. Dude, no, I know that's literally like exactly what I've been realizing. it's like I had these this idea of like of like what my life was like, the sorts of things I needed to do, and it's like I would obsess over getting them perfect, but then it's like, that never actually gave me any peace or happiness. like that was like All it did was make me more frustrated like and more angry at myself because it would feel like, oh,
00:27:59
Speaker
like I could never get anything right. And I would think that, oh, it's your fault because you're not doing these things well enough. You're not doing it. Like there's obviously some problem with you for not being able to do these things perfectly when the issue was like you're saying the fact that I needed.
00:28:15
Speaker
that level of control that level of obsessiveness about like okay my life has to be this way I have to live it this way it needs to be exactly this way or like I think like there was like a level of guilt related to that because like I think that almost made me dismissive of other people's perspectives for a long time where it's like I wasn't really letting myself listen to other people and like the wisdom that they had because like I was so certain about like what I knew, what was already decided in my head. Yeah, I wouldn't give myself like the ability to like open up to what other people were trying to tell me.
00:28:50
Speaker
And again, like I think that's related so much to like what I was saying about like that guilt, that like cycle of like hurting myself and getting frustrated, and just this self-destructive process where I could obviously tell I wasn't treating people in my life the best, I wasn't treating myself the best, and that would only cause me to like feed it into that ideal even more and more. That part you said about not being able to see the others you know, like receive the other people's wisdom really in a way that I found myself in so many like, you know, arguments over the years.
00:29:25
Speaker
Because I think ah lyn a lot of it points back to the fact that, yeah, I wasn't able to, I had decided what mattered. And yes, I could say like, yes, definitely there might be an element of being selfish in there. in your But also, like, also, if I'm being completely honest, it wasn't in my head. Like I had whatever I had figured out, whatever was in my framework.
00:29:48
Speaker
yeah I wanted to give that to other people. I didn't want them to make those mistakes, right? yeah I wanted to, and it came out of, and it's funny because those arguments happen with the people that I love the most because I wanted to help them the most. I wanted to protect them the most. You know, give them as much as I could and it just caused so much pain. Yeah. It's so much, so much pain, so much conflict. I know exactly what you mean. It's like, I was so sure about those things. Like, I mean, exactly what you said.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, I was so sure about those things that I would get like so frustrated. Like you were saying, the people I care about i cared about would make these mistakes when the mistake was me feeling that way in the first place. Yeah, it's like, hey, I already figured this out. You don't have to make this mistake. you know Just do this. Yeah. but no like Really realizing that a couple of things, I mean, just being open, but also just realizing that like Everyone's playing the same game you are. yeah oh Everyone's acting already acting in their own yeah interest. And I think and think the other thing is I wasn't able to understand a lot of times like you know someone around me said they were anxious or
00:31:02
Speaker
yeah or wasn't able to bring themselves to do something that needed to be done. um I couldn't understand it because because i was not I couldn't understand my own anxiety at all because I just pushed it away like it was nothing. yeah So i was in my head, it was just like, why why can't why don't you just do the same? Because I had found success doing that.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It wasn't out of nothing. like it was like i I was getting all this positive reinforcement for doing that. Yeah, exactly. Because that's the world we're in, right? get positive You get positive reinforcement from your environment, from yourself, and it's like maybe it only works like 20% of the time, but that's always like at least for me like what I would think about right you never really have like that perspective to take a step back and be like okay is this actually helping me it sucks man I wish I don't know like this is you learn things when you learn things you know yeah there is definitely I do feel regret you know like man I wish I was better you know before I wish I was like I wish I had was able to see things in a different way
00:32:11
Speaker
yeah because i can't question my intentions i know i've always had good intentions like i feel like for me especially like that regret that you're talking about like i didn't want to accept like the ways in which like i had hurt other people and hurt myself Like when I fucked something up, I would like obviously like try and think it through and like see what I would do better, but I would almost dismiss. I'd be like, okay, like I, obviously I made a mistake, but then I understand like what to do from here on out. Like it's okay. Like the only thing I can do like is move on and like move forward. But I was really like, I didn't want to come to terms with like the ways in which, like I was saying, like I was hurting other people and the ways in which like that was also like hurting myself.
Empathy and Personal Growth
00:32:51
Speaker
And like, again, like I think that's,
00:32:54
Speaker
what I've really been trying to like feel more and like being more in touch with is like like those regrets and those hurts and those pains and like even like I think a lot of times like when they're self-inflicted yeah like being more compassionate and kind towards myself and being more compassionate and kind towards others they are so connected they're you know what I'm realizing I'm realizing sometimes I acted like a dick because I acted like a dick to myself. yeah but it wasn't That was truly now I'm realizing because a lot of times like something would happen and I would i would say something and I would do something that and then later I'd be like, why are you so inconsiderate? Why are you so mean? you know yeah are you so Why don't you have more empathy? yeah what i mean Why don't you understand?
00:33:37
Speaker
really Yeah, I didn't I didn't know I didn't know how to do it to myself like I yeah in a lot of ways in a lot of ways I think I was more empathetic towards others and I was 100% By a lot but but even if that's true like until you understand yourself you can't understand someone else Oh, a hundred percent you just can't know that's actually a so like one of my favorite philosophers is Nietzsche and like there's always been this aspect in like his thought which like has like rubbed me the wrong way, which is like this idea that like you can't like
00:34:11
Speaker
truly be altruistic unless you're like egoistic to a certain extent or like if you like value yourself and like i feel like i was always like i would always like push back against that and be like oh like that's kind of like a selfish way to look at it things that's kind of like narcissistic but i kind of i feel like more and more that that that fucker was right all along where it's like if I didn't if I don't love myself I can't ever love other people like it's always gonna bleed out like in my relationships with other people and like you're saying like I would be more compassionate towards other people and like when other people like there were definitely times where like people made mistakes that I would beat myself up over and I wouldn't I would obviously be more compassionate towards them
00:34:50
Speaker
And I'd be like, Oh, it's fine. Like I'm obviously hard towards myself, but I'm like, I'm more empathetic towards others because like, you know, like I would almost think about it as in like, Oh, I wouldn't like, I have control over like my own actions. So I should be harder on myself versus for other people. I don't know what they're struggling with. So it's like, I should be like more empathetic. Um,
00:35:10
Speaker
But obviously, like you're saying, like there's no clean way to like divide those two things. And it did cause me to be like cruel and to be like like resentful and bitter and like toxic towards other people in ways that I wasn't being honest with myself about. Because again, like it all just came out of that self-hatred. It just came out of all that like pain I would put towards myself. Is there even now like even now the fucking...
00:35:33
Speaker
that voice in my head you know i've always it's like even this thing that i've learned i want to like spread it you know what i mean i want everyone to know i want and i'm thinking like why don't we teach children this stuff yeah like why and it's yeah i'm not saying we shouldn't i'm just saying that immediately i jump to that again yeah yeah there's such a There's such a fine line between like wanting to help other people and almost like a savior complex where you assume like, oh, I know, I know what's best for you. Like, oh, why don't you just listen to me? That's like, a I mean, I've told you, right? Like listening back to like Mr. morale, like the Kendrick album is almost like a new like album after like processing all of this, because that's essentially what he's talking about on the album, like his own savior complex and like how much that was like,
00:36:24
Speaker
based on his own lack of self-worth, his own self-hatred, how like him saying, like, oh, I am not your savior is like him pushing back against that, like, impulse in himself to like impose his own judgments and his own like way of looking at the world on other people. I just i just watched this movie called Kinds of Kindness. Bro, I want to watch it. Hell of a bed.
00:36:44
Speaker
It's like the same guy who made Four Things. I'll be honest, I don't know how I feel about the movie as i as a whole. I think it was too much for me. But the first story, the first story, so it's an anthology it split into three yeah different stories. And the first story was probably the one that I found the most interesting.
00:37:08
Speaker
because I saw qualities yeah in it that I've seen in myself. yeah Obviously blown up to the extreme though. The first story there's this character whose kind of like life is based on decisions that this boss or this master deems perfect, right? yeah So this guy is the one who decides what he's going to drink, yeah what he's going to eat, but when he's going to have sex, when he's going to you know what he's going to do on a day-to-day basis. yeah And like even if he conveys some preference over something, there's always a right answer, right? Corrective.
00:37:50
Speaker
oh ah Oh, I'm feeling like I think a whiskey would be more suitable today, don't you think? Yes. um And it's like kind of the same idea. It's like the idea of perfection, right? But it's not just for yourself. You're projecting that onto everyone around you because you know the way to go. They've figured it out for them already. Yeah. It comes out of a combination of ego and love. Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
Like to really understand it, you can't deny that there's an altruistic part of it. yeah hundred percent But realizing that there's so much that's lost by doing that. There's so much individuality that's lost. There's so much agency that's lost. What you deem perfect is only perfect in a certain context for a certain person. And chances are that's probably not even perfect. You're just, you've just decided for some reason. Yeah.
00:38:40
Speaker
yeah yeah I feel like the most valuable things in life are like the things where it's like that defy your expectations, right? Where it's like you when you like write off something as being valuable and then you get this new perspective and suddenly you like almost look at the whole world like in a new way and if you come into like life with the perspective that like oh I know how things are like I know like what perfection looks like, I know like how things should be, like that'll prevent you from like ever like recognizing like those those unique things, those things that can challenge you and surprise you, like the things that make life like so vibrant and beautiful in the first place.
Breaking Free from Mental Constraints
00:39:21
Speaker
It's beautiful because there's so many options. There's so many correct options. Everything is a correct option if you really think about it. was like yeah There's another movie, man. I really want i want to share this. There's this movie that I saw. It's a really old movie, but I saw it last week. It's called Adaptation.
00:39:39
Speaker
yeah You've heard of it? ah Yeah, I want to watch it a lot. I know what it's about. but I had no idea. I just saw something. Did you go in blind?
00:39:50
Speaker
Yeah, I just saw some deal about it. I was like, oh, it's Nicolas Cage. I love Nicolas Cage. Yeah. And Meryl Streep. So it'll be a good to watch. Yeah. And I just I found it so fascinating because yeah, yeah nickco the movie is about Nicolas Cage. Yeah. It's about this. It's about this neurotic self-conscious man yeah who just doesn't know how to like let anything be right like he's like he's so hyper focused on what feels right you know just dialed up to the extreme like it's just what's perfect what is the best way to go about this
00:40:31
Speaker
yeah creating, you know, how do I create something profound, not but not fantastical, but has to be original, it has it can't be derivative, it keeps it's got to be it's got to be just right. He's got this Goldilocks complex, yeah right? And it's like, that's what the movie is about. And I just, I related to it, not to that level, but to the the basic the basic feeling that yeah was driving all this.
00:40:56
Speaker
And it's just like, let's say there's like a crevice on the ground, right? And you're like trying to like roll the ball into the crevice, right? Like a small depression. And you roll it there. And you know, it's like you cast your net, you make your decision, whatever it is, in nine times out of 10, it sticks.
00:41:12
Speaker
But because of that one time it didn't, you find a reason for it and you're like, no, that was fucked up. That wasn't perfect. So now you take so much longer deciding how to roll the ball, yeah yeah what path for it to take. and Once you build up enough fucking courage to even throw it, that's not, that's not, it doesn't even end there. Then like when it stops, you start toying with it. You go up to it and you start toying with it. yeah oh could it be Could it fit better? yeah Perfect. You start fucking with it a little to the left, a little to the right, you just fuck it up. And it's like, that's the this is the pizza that I was talking about in the last episode. so this is the this is the This is the music in the car. When I keep adjusting the knob,
00:42:00
Speaker
Oh yeah. Is the volume exactly perfect? Is it exactly right, you know? No, that's too much. yeah that's That's one level too much. And it would just bother me so much. yeah yeah And I saw all those pieces of me and this character and I was just like, man, wow.
00:42:24
Speaker
But that's that that thing you're saying about the volume, i've I literally do that so often, especially with like so with like songs that I care about. yeah like like My favorite songs ever, whenever I try to listen to them, I'm like, oh, the setting needs to be exactly perfect. I need to like make sure the volume's like completely right. like Yeah, I spend so much time on that where it's like, I almost don't like a lot of times like I'm so fixated on like trying to get everything perfect that I miss like the things I love about the song like I'm just not mentally engaged in that because I'm so focused on getting all of those like small elements perfect that I like to lose out on like what I was even there in the first place really.
00:43:05
Speaker
Dude, I thought, I thought there was something wrong with me. I thought it was just me that did this. And I would be, I would be conscious about the fact that I'm doing that. No, literally. And I would get, I would get so frustrated with myself where I'm like, Oh, why are you even doing this? Why are you aiming for perfection? And then I would get sidetracked thinking about that. And then like, I'm still not thinking about the song, right? I'm still not actually engaged with what I wanted to do in the first place. It's just,
00:43:31
Speaker
my mind like coiling up on itself over and over again, just like further and further like layers of like, like analysis of like what I'm doing as opposed to like being engaged in like what I want to do. Being lost in your own head. Yeah. 100%. Being hypersensitive to your surroundings.
00:43:52
Speaker
I don't even think it's being hypersensitive to your surroundings so much as it is being hypersensitive to like yourself in your own mind. Like I think it very much is like, again, like what, like we're talking about, like this feeling that of like needing perfection, like that comes fundamentally again from that, like that place of like place of not being happy okay with yourself being imperfect. Like all of that, like just this like constant obsessive need for everything to be right.
00:44:20
Speaker
And like, yeah, I think like that's something that I've been working on a lot like recently is like trying to force myself to get out of my head. And I feel like that's really what's been helping with that. Like that's why I've been like going out like paddle boarding and stuff like that more, because I feel like things like that, if I do something like very physically like intensive, like that's one of the only things that can sign sort of force me to get out of that like head space sometimes. It's hard though. It's like, Oh, a hundred percent. Cause you're almost trying to convince your brain to to like kill itself. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. You kind of have to trick trick it. Right. It's like, yeah. I've read this thing recently about how a lot of us seek refuge in our minds. Yeah. But then that same mind becomes a prison. Yeah. You don't want to leave really. And I feel like I felt that I'm understanding that in the way that I never have before. Yeah. A hundred percent.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, I've definitely felt that a lot. Like ah like what you were saying about your mind like killing itself, that phrase itself is like like sticks out to me a lot because like I think for a long time I almost associated who I was with like being in my head to a certain extent, where it felt like wrong to get out of my head, where it felt like I was like giving up something about myself.
00:45:45
Speaker
And I feel like even now, like I almost like maybe this isn't the most healthy way to think about it, but I almost think of it as like trying to like destroy my mind or like like trying to like just like like when I like I was saying, like when I do these physical activities, it's like I'm trying to.
00:46:01
Speaker
get myself so exhausted that like I literally don't have energy to like be in my head where I'm like literally trying to annihilate like my mind. But at the same time, like I think as I've been getting more comfortable with that, like I'm realizing how rejuvenating that is.
Mind as Refuge and Prison
00:46:16
Speaker
I'm realizing that like Oh, like I am not my mind. like like and that like My mind is just as much like a prison, like like you were saying, for like myself and like my being, like as opposed to being everything that I am. like I am just as much... like
00:46:34
Speaker
my body and like my experiences and my senses but I would spend so long in my head that it felt like all I was was my thoughts and like my mind and I think like that's what like also what things like meditation are like focused at where it's about like being able to see your thoughts and so being able to acknowledge that like underneath my thoughts is like my experience is like the true like core of my experience. like My thoughts are an aspect of my experience, but I am not my thoughts. My thoughts are just another part of like my being and that there's nothing wrong with like being outside of them and like being disconnected from them.
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's been it's been quite a and quite a journey of learning how to yeah get out of it. you know yeah
00:47:25
Speaker
just exist without thinking. I've been happy with the fact that recently I'm starting to forget things sometimes. And I'm like, wow, I forgot that. And it sounds so weird to be happy about it. I've been happy about forgetting something. But it means that I'm no longer holding on really tightly to all my thoughts and everything I had to do.
00:47:50
Speaker
and just existing, and by nature of doing that, you will forget things, right? You can't do everything that you've never thought of. It's not going to stay in your head. That's not what your brain is meant to do. That's what a computer is meant to do. So that's been, I would actually tell people before, I was like, I want to forget things. No, I got you.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah, for me like it was definitely like almost this anxiety where I was like so afraid I would forget something that I really cared about and that like I was afraid like oh if I don't keep track of everything like what if like I fuck something up or what if I forget about something important when it was like first of all like if I care about it that much I'm going to remember like or like I can like write it down or like there's lots of different things that I can do right like it's not like I need, like yeah, like there's no need to like obsess and like get so anxious about that. And also, again, like just being comfortable with being like, okay, like I forgot something. That's like inevitable. like There's nothing wrong with that. like It's not like I need to cling on to like every like experience, every like thought that I have.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, I think it's almost like counterproductive where a lot of times like I would be so afraid of like forgetting things that like I would be in my head and actually forget to do things and like actually like neglect things that I cared about. Yeah. No. Yeah. I definitely feel that a lot. again like What is this? What is, what is the, if you are not your thought, the fuck are you like what's left? Like this, this stream of consciousness that we have.
00:49:28
Speaker
yeah If we're not actively thinking about it, is it even fucking there? like i don't yeah It's so trippy, man. How do you think about it? Yeah, it's crazy. But that's almost like something I've also been realizing, which is like so much of like our thought is like unconscious. right it's like Just because we're not like consciously like thinking about something doesn't mean that we aren't like assessing the world around us and that we're not aware of it. right like I think I've been trying to replace this idea that like I am my thoughts with like, I am like my experience, you know? Like when we just sit there and we like let our thought die down, like like our thoughts are just one aspect of our experience, right? But our experience is also our senses, like like drinking in like the world around us, the sensations of our own body. Like all of those things are an aspect of our experience. And that's like really like what we are, like not just our thought. Do you think it's a is a result of being too meta, too early on?
00:50:27
Speaker
You know what I mean? Where it's like, where it's like because you start thinking about things. I feel like there was a certain sense when I did, as I was growing up, thinking about my thoughts and stuff, yeah being lost in it. I found it to be like a quality, like a positive thing that made me more aware of my surroundings, made me more like, I would say, someone would say mature. yeah But then that turned, I feel like that ah turned into it detracting from my life.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, and I wonder if it's if it's because because of the fact that you know Some people develop an obsession with this early on in their lives. without Yeah No, I don't give so much positive feedback. Yeah keep doing it I Don't like I definitely think there is an aspect where it's like almost this like maladaptive behavior, but I don't know if it's like necessarily... like like i do I do think there's an aspect of positive feedback, but I almost feel like it's more of like a coping mechanism with like a like with like struggles. like At least for me, like I think like um with like a lot of like trauma and stuff from my past, like one way I would escape it was sort of like I would sort of like live in my own head and I would like think about
00:51:47
Speaker
like things outside of that and almost just like like it was like I would just like stay in my head to avoid like dealing with how I would feel emotionally and like deal like fit like feel physically
Uniqueness and Isolation
00:51:59
Speaker
like all this like tension that was building up and so like it was definitely this like maladaptive response that's like I've carried it on and I think like that can go for like any mental health like issue right like if you're dealing with struggling with the anxiety or something a lot of times like you start thinking about it as a way of managing that anxiety or managing like your feelings of depression or something and so like that can that can end up like there can be positives to that right like if you're worried about something um and you think about it and you think about ways to deal with it um then that sort of like gives you some like positive reinforcement that like oh I should think more about these things which makes me anxious I should think more about these stressors and I think that can almost become a compulsion where it's like you
00:52:43
Speaker
start obsessing and you just start like staying in your own head like to a point that becomes like negative and maladaptive and again like because like you have these like positive examples too because it's been like reinforced so much like it becomes like second nature and again like you you stop seeing it as a choice and i think like especially like if you start doing it like as a child it's like that almost becomes so core to your sense of self that it becomes something that you like don't even question right like i've been like like i feel like i think think like I've been thinking like this since literally like some of my first memories so it's like there was never even really an understanding that like there was another option like I was saying like it would feel wrong almost so
00:53:25
Speaker
like it would almost make me uncomfortable to not be in my head sometimes. like And like I remember even like I would tell, like I would be like, oh, like i like I would literally tell people sometimes, are like oh, I don't really like enjoy like being relaxed like that or like being at peace. like I really enjoy like being mentally engaged. And it's not that that isn't true. like I did get a lot of joy out of that. I still do. But at the same time, like that it like it was because it made me so uncomfortable like not and like yeah like i said like i've just been realizing more and more like how much i need that and like how like toxic some aspects of that work i didn't think you were just gonna agree with me no i know you honestly i wouldn't have thought i wouldn't have thought either you know like i feel like it's like
00:54:15
Speaker
especially with something like this where it's like, it's all takes place in your own head, right? Like it's like yeah it's like, it's not even something you really talk about, right? Like like how, like it it feels so like, I don't even know how to describe it. Like it feels like so like almost like scary because it's like, you don't, like you never know. Like you you almost like by definition can't know like if other people feel that way. And it's like, yeah, it's it's just like, yeah, like you don't,
00:54:43
Speaker
really you can't ever like recognize it in other people you can't ever like like see that like oh this is a normal thing that other people struggle with and like that makes you feel more alienated right that makes you feel like more ah uncomfortable around other people because you feel like there's all these aspects to yourself that like i don't know that just feels so like strange and so it can be hard to like open up about that i don't know yeah it's kind of embarrassing to say but i feel like I feel like for the longest time I didn't think it was a question mark in my head whether people around me were where other people in the world were as conscious as I was. I wasn't sure. Yeah. For the longest time. And I'm not even going to say until when because it's very embarrassing. Too woke, bruh. Too woke. Too woke.
00:55:33
Speaker
but yeah got a new site But it's just, I just wasn't sure and I didn't know how to yeah even challenge it really. yeah yeah I feel like that's almost what keeps us so isolated, right that this kind of belief that our experience is special in some way. yeah yeah Where it is special but it's not not not special in that It's not exclusively, special yeah especially in the way that everything is special. Yeah. It's like you're saying, right? It's like there are things which are so like, obviously like things that are unique to all of us, but at the same time, it's like you need understanding from other people, right? You need to be able to like, yeah.
00:56:16
Speaker
like relate, like find those connections with other people too. And it can be very isolating, like, especially with something like this, that's almost like by definition, like private, like in your own head, like, how do you, how do you begin to like, like, how do you begin to feel that level of like connection with someone else, right? How do you, how do you trust that someone else like has the same thoughts and like feels the same way when this is all happening internally. And I mean, I've talked to other people who have said like exactly what you're saying, where it's like, they don't like,
00:56:45
Speaker
They had the same feeling that, like, oh, are other people, like, self-aware as I am? Like, I think, for me, it was slightly different. It was a feeling, like, oh, like, oh, like, other people, like, don't think as much as I do. And, like, you know, like, low-key thinking, other people are stupid. But, uh... Yeah, like I know what you're saying. like It's so like dumb to say in retrospect, and it almost like makes me feel kind of shitty about I thought that way. you know like There's like guilt in there, too. But like at the same time, like again, like I need to be compassionate to myself. like I understand where it's coming from. like it's not like It's hard to recognize, and like especially if you don't feel confident in yourself. like You don't have security and your self-worth. like It's scary to like be vulnerable about these things and be open right about like just how it feels like to be you.
00:57:34
Speaker
and And that, I think a lot of people who go through this day, when they do find someone that, you know, that they can convince themselves that this person is equally as yeah alive as I am. You know, when they do find that person, they yeah it then losing that person is very, very difficult. Because now it's like, oh,
00:58:02
Speaker
I'm on my own again. I'm on my own again. Yeah. this yeah and i And that was so crazy. It was so rare. I don't know if I'm going to feel like that again. Yeah. That connection. Yeah. Yeah. It all ties in together. Yeah.
Empathy and Compassion
00:58:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:24
Speaker
Like this is something i get I guess like I want to touch on a little bit, but I almost feel like a lot of like, for especially for like men, a lot of times like they sort of like rely on like girlfriends or like partners for like emotional like security and stuff because like it's difficult to talk about like, especially between like friends, right? Like this, these aren't like necessarily like normal, like regular conversations that we have. So it's like, that's the only person that a lot of like men feel comfortable like being open emotionally with.
00:58:53
Speaker
So it can be hard for them to like, like they can, yeah, you again I don't know. There's like an aspect there to unpack, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure what I have to say about it. You know, but I think it's true. I mean, it's like, it big it turns into this me and you versus the world. Yeah. the situation yeah i definitely felt that i And that's why, like, that's why when,
00:59:19
Speaker
for a lot of fun when that kind of relationship ends. it's very It's especially hard because it's breaking all their their whole framework about the world. It's not just a relationship that's lost. It's the entire way you interact with life. It's a complete question mark now. yeah Like any sort of emotional support network.
00:59:39
Speaker
yeah yeah It is, it is the it does play a part. I think that's also why some dudes are like, it's almost like they feel like they need to have a girlfriend to like fix them. Because it's like, when it's like in reality, like, you should be able to rely on your friends, right? Like, that's not, that's like a very like, like, that's like a toxic thing to like put on someone else that like, in reality, like we should all be supporting each other, right? Yeah, it's not, it's not anyone's job to come and fix you. And it's not your job to fix you.
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah. But I mean, you know, as you're growing, I guess one of the roles of relationships is helping each other grow. And if you need that, then maybe you got that and maybe. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. The absence that when you got, you grew from that and then, and then, and then when it was gone, you learned from that perhaps more than you did from when you had that support. Yeah.
01:00:39
Speaker
anything you wanted to talk about like relate to this anything honestly this has been like one of the biggest things on my mind over like the last few just like weeks like as i've been like Yeah, just as I've been processing everything, like I've been like meditating a lot, like I've been saying, like getting trying to like get in touch like with that like side of myself that isn't just like my thoughts, like those experiences. like I always joke with Asha that I'm entering my non-cognitive era because I'm trying not to think, I'm just trying to do things which like get me out of my head. But yeah, that I feel like we really went over everything. To be honest, like I feel like this should look to be its own episode. Yeah.
01:01:22
Speaker
But you see guys, people listening, like, this is why our episodes take so long. yeah You're getting all this stuff in real time as we're thinking about it. And it takes it takes time yeah to let it marinate. You have to really work through it before you can even get to a place where it makes sense to talk about it in a cohesive, coherent way. ah hundred bit And I think that's also like,
01:01:50
Speaker
something I wanna emphasize, which is like, there's nothing like, again, like very related to like the perfectionist stuff that we're saying. I always get frustrated with how long I'm taking to like grow when it's like, that's just, these things take time, you know? You need to like give yourself like the time to mature, the time to like understand how you're feeling and like let them, let those feelings marinate to a point like where like you can get something productive out of the process. And like you can't rush something like that. Like all that's gonna do is like,
01:02:18
Speaker
make it harder to like get to a plate, like get to where you want to be emotionally. If you want to grow, if you're trying to grow, and you find yourself frustrated, it's important to realize that you're literally trying to be someone you have never been before. Yeah. You need patience. Yeah. Give yourself time. It takes time. Yeah. yeah But it will come. And the more you hyper fixate on it, you know, because I've gotten, I get anxious. I'm like, why am I, I get stressed out? yeah Why is this still a problem? Yeah. A hundred percent. You have to realize you've never, you you haven't figured it out yet. So it's, it's going to take time here, but you're on the right path. Yeah. And like we're saying, I think fundamentally it's about being compassionate towards yourself. Like, like,
01:03:14
Speaker
Like that frustration comes out of, I feel like this feeling of like, like bitterness towards yourself. Oh, like, why aren't I already that person? When it's again, like, that's not, like, that's not something that like, that's not something any of us like control, right? Like, and like, all that, all that like bitterness and frustration will do is like, make it harder to like be in touch with who you really are and like harder to be in touch with yourself.
01:03:44
Speaker
And I feel like at a certain level you have to extend all this stuff that you learn to other people too. visit yeah I don't know, I can't tell you how many times I've like heard someone be like, oh, he's just a bad person. Oh, she's a bad person. And then just like completely brush them off. yeah it's like you And I'm not saying this to like justify anything or anything anyone did.
01:04:10
Speaker
everyone should be held accountable. But at the same time, it's like really understanding like nobody hurts people in isolation. Yeah, right. It's like, there's a whole story. There's a whole There's a whole, day that person has spent their whole life getting to that point. yeah And it's shaped by so many things that have happened to them. yeah Their childhood, their early friendships, just everything, everything. And so being,
01:04:42
Speaker
empathetic and giving, not giving people the benefit of the doubt, but giving people the chance to be someone that they're not currently, right? And I'm not saying you have to be friends with someone who's done you wrong. Yeah, but because it's very important to draw your own boundaries and, and you need that space, recognizing when you need space from some people and taking it, right? Yeah. um But also just also also giving them the chance to grow into something. Yeah, someone something better. And a lot of people don't ever, but they all have the capability to. So if they're taking steps, then that's that's a good sign.
Moral Judgment and Societal Healing
01:05:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:23
Speaker
you now You'll never be able to be empathetic towards yourself if you don't give other people the same empathy, right? I mean, even like I was saying, like on the Kendrick album, Mr. Morale, like that's a huge thing he talks about there, is having empathy for all of these evil people who have done so many so much wrong. But at the same time, it's like that, like you were saying, that doesn't come out of nowhere. like That's always like, and I think like Like that's always fundamentally out of like some sort of like pain and that doesn't justify anything that doesn't make it right. But at the same time, like if like.
01:05:57
Speaker
Like you'll never be able to give yourself understanding unless you give other people understanding. And I like, like I've genuinely been coming to a point where like, and this is like a whole topic, like this is a whole episode on its own, but I really think that sort of judgment, like the sort of like moral judgment that people put on other people, like is at the core of like so much human suffering and like so much like even like evil. And I think like being able to,
01:06:25
Speaker
being able to lend other people kindness, compassion, and understanding that, again, that they don't deserve. like yeah but I mean, it's like not about deserving. you know like it's not about like It's not about that. It's about like being able to be compassionate and to feel for other people. So we can also become passionate towards ourselves because, I mean,
01:06:50
Speaker
We've all done like bad things, right? We've all hurt people. We've all done evil things. It's just a matter of degrees. And if you just cast someone out, like for those things without understanding them, like how can you ever like truly come to terms with yourself and the things that you've done, right? Yeah. And you put pure people on tears. Exactly. These people are better than I look up to them.
01:07:12
Speaker
These people are beneath me. They're there the scum of the earth. I can't tell you how many conversations I've heard like this. yeah And it breaks my heart a little bit. Yeah. A hundred percent. Oh boy. yeah You think Drake has empathy or Kendrick has empathy for Drake?
01:07:32
Speaker
yeah i think he does i think like there's like so actually there's actually so much to talk there about like mr morale and its relationship to the whole beef because like one of the best takes i heard was essentially like Kendrick, what Kendrick is doing during the beef is essentially trying to like get the ideas he has on Mr. morale like out to the public where like he's like talks a lot about like these cycles of abuse and pain and like especially in like the black community and he's almost like using Drake as like a symbol of like this sort of like toxic like like this toxic cycle like repeating itself like
01:08:15
Speaker
For sacrificing Drake for for the public benefit. Yeah. Because like that's literally what he says on like Meet the Greyhams. He's like, we have to raise our children when there's people like him like going around. There's predators like him lurking. And he like literally says on that song, like this is exactly what I was talking about on Mr. Morale. Maybe I need to go give that album another list. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:42
Speaker
I feel like I'm unlocking the album, bro, as I mature myself. Oh, yeah. It's crazy. Should we so we wrap up?