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Breakups || Part 2
172 Plays1 year ago
Oh man not breakups again. Join us as we reflect with on breakups and our tumultuous but insightful journeys since with our very special guest Gaura.
Art Picks:
Ahir - Candy Necklace by Lana del Rey https://open.spotify.com/track/3MlEryrxCKZkcfX18ZLX96?si=e196c272419a45b6
Devam - On the Nature of Daylight by Max Richter, Louisa Fuller, etc https://open.spotify.com/track/56oReVXIfUO9xkX7pHmEU0?si=9d1f6df9c9c644db
Gaura - Jaago by Lifafa https://open.spotify.com/album/0iH6pbUrb45P62B82PHDLb?si=OBVtBlkYSKK6or8dXE_L9g
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Transcript
Friday Night Dilemma
00:00:01
Speaker
Ah, shit. It's Friday. I don't have anything planned. I wonder where she's up to. No. Stop. Stop. We're not doing that again. Okay. Oh man, that's right, okay. Can't stay home. Nope, nope, nope. I just, I need to, I need to go, I need to...
00:00:29
Speaker
Yeah, get me a car and we get fucked up. Yeah, yeah. Everything will be okay. Let me... let me call of you. Hey, man. Hey, what's up? Anything going on tonight?
00:01:01
Speaker
oh alright yeah you're at the birthday party uh gotcha yeah all good man i will we'll link later alright bro peace they're tired of you man they're they're tired of you they're tired of your shit just stop stop you piece of shit just stop
00:01:22
Speaker
Everyone has their own lives. You're not special. Just stop. Get over it. Like a normal person. You're such a child, man. You're such a child. And stop thinking about her. Jesus Christ, stop thinking about her. Tender. Open tinder. No. This is actually stupid. Open hinge. Okay, stop. Just stop. Stop.
00:01:53
Speaker
I'm gonna go get a joint. I'll make myself a PBT or something and watch a movie. It'll be okay. It'll be okay. Oh, thank God.
Introducing Gara
00:02:41
Speaker
What the fuck is up, guys? Welcome back to pineapple parrotation. This is number five. Have we actually ever started on time?
00:02:51
Speaker
Um, no, but I think that's, I don't know. I feel like that's expected, you know? That's the nature of this. Artists, right? Artists never on time. Of course. Yeah. All right. Well, welcome back everyone to Pineapple Blunt Rotation. This is number five. Yes. Woo woo. Today. Today. Oh man, I'm gonna have to cut this up. Today. Oh no. Today.
00:03:20
Speaker
April 28th. We have a new guest joining our rotation today. One of my friends from college, Gara, is here with us. She is actually one of my earliest friends from college. I think we met during orientation, literally the first day. She is extremely smart. She's very driven, passionate, also one of the most humble and relatable people out there. And, oh, she has a fantastic voice, by the way. You should hear her sing someday. I think, do you have anything on Spotify, Gara?
00:03:50
Speaker
I do, but I don't know if I'm proud enough of it to share right now. All right. Well, we'll plug it when you're comfortable. But she's also one to call you out on your shit, which I always appreciate. Real friends. And she's currently trailblazing her way through medical school and is such an inspiration. She also has played a huge role in giving me the confidence to start solo traveling, which I'm so grateful for. So welcome, Garrett.
00:04:18
Speaker
I'm so glad to be here. That's all so sweet of you, too. Thank you. All right. So how have you guys been? Have you been doing? Say a name, bro. It gets confusing. Oh, sure. Name them. Why don't you start? Oh, man. OK. I've been doing good. Today, I'll tell you about today. Today was a great day. It was 75 degrees in New York. Fantastic sunny day. I woke up and
00:04:47
Speaker
One of my friends was throwing a coffee bar. So shout out average coffee, AVG coffee in New York. They have seasonal events. So if you get invited to them, you're
Gara's Medical School Journey
00:04:59
Speaker
lucky. I'll just say that. And then I went to Soho because I just felt like I could use some retail therapy.
00:05:11
Speaker
And so I went to Soho and I walked into Zara and I bought $250 worth of clothes, which is something I've never done before actually. So I did that and then I came home and I got some Banh Mi and I sat in the park and I ate it. And now I'm here. How are you guys? Bro, I feel like I'm on exactly the same wavelength. I've also been going on a shopping spree and I'm planning on hitting up Zara tomorrow. So it's literally going to be me.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't done that before. Spending that much? It's a necessity. In one go? No. At one store? In one go? No. Okay. At one store, I guess maybe. Maybe that's a little different. But I feel like at least for me, I always just binge buy clothes, so I won't buy anything for months. And then I'll spend $300. I've been spending too much money in general. We're not going to tell you about that. Gura, how are you?
00:06:06
Speaker
I'm good. I just had a big change in my schedule. So now I have Saturday and Sundays off, which has been huge. So today I just got to take care of like tasks and stuff and sleep in and do my laundry and meal prep and all those things, which was very centering. But then yesterday I was like hanging out with friends and doing all that stuff. So a good balance, a good balanced weekend. Yeah. Are you in residency or?
00:06:34
Speaker
No, I'm in my third year of med school and you basically work in the hospital full time. Oh, okay. One of my best friends, Karthik, he's also going through the same thing right now.
Breakup Reflections and Growth
00:06:46
Speaker
But I didn't realize it was that intense where it's like you're working weekends and stuff even while you're still in med school. That's crazy. Oh my god, yeah. My schedule before this was like six days a week. Oh my god. And so now I'm just like Monday through Friday, which has been very relieving for sure. Yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
Dang, they really exploit the fuck out of y'all before they start paying you. No, I know. And they have this pay tuition too, which is like the craziest part. Literally. I've been in a pretty good place recently, which I'm happy about. I feel like things have, I've, I mentioned last time that things have been kind of like rough for me, like a little up in the air, just growing pains kind of, and I feel like I'm slowly on my way out of that. There's a long way to go, but I'm definitely like feel better than I have in a long while. So yeah.
00:07:35
Speaker
There's something about the spring, man. Yeah. So weather's not shit, so it's not depressing all the time. Oh, man. How is Seattle? Is it sunny? Right now, it's depressing as fuck. It's literally gray and cloudy outside, but there have definitely been a lot of good days. Even on 420, it was a bit cloudy, but it was just good weather, good climate. I was chilling out in the park. Annual holiday of 420. Yes, sir.
00:08:05
Speaker
West Coast Hall there. Washington Square Park was insane this year. That's true, that's true. Like the host, yeah, I don't know. Everyone in New York was high.
00:08:16
Speaker
It was wild, including me, but yeah. All right, so for this week's episode, we're going to be doing a follow-up on breakups. Just see how everyone's been doing. And Gora, since you weren't here for the last episode, you know, really bad scheduling conflict, I guess why don't you like get into it a bit and just like, I guess give us some understanding on what happened.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I started dating my ex-boyfriend. Literally also met during orientation of college and started dating day three of undergrad probably. And then we're together all four years of college and broke up a month after we graduated on the phone. We weren't living in the same city. And then I haven't seen him since.
00:09:09
Speaker
But very, yeah, the very broad overview is we dated for all of college, broke up after, didn't talk for a while and then have since kind of we're on good terms with each other kind of and talk sometimes. And then kind of have both dated since like other people since and yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
So that makes two of us, and I hear you with your smug, you know... I think you're projecting, bro. Yeah. You don't know how easy you have it, man. I'm just telling you. Your life has been very easy, okay?
00:09:52
Speaker
I feel bad about even responding because what am I going to say other than rub more salt in the wound, right? No, it's okay. There are other... Other issues. Yes. Don't worry. Balance is that. I'll take the shit. Sweet second here. Did you mention this, but how long were you guys dating for? For all four years of college then?
00:10:16
Speaker
Yeah we did for all four years of college and then broke up in the summer of 2021. And then actually I guess I didn't mention earlier but I started dating somebody else, seriously.
00:10:31
Speaker
like pretty soon after and then have since broken up with that person as well. So I guess two different kind of breakups to talk about. For your first relationship, like was it something that I guess like when it ended, like was it something you were kind of expecting or like did it come out of nowhere? Yeah it was one of those things I think where we both for a couple for a few months if not longer kind of both knew in the back of our heads that like
00:10:59
Speaker
we maybe weren't in the best place for each other or like the best people for each other at that point in our lives anymore. We kind of had this idea that like it might be coming, but like didn't really wanna accept it or like. But then kind of a lot of changes happened with ending or graduating college and moving different places and all sorts of stuff was shifting. And so I think it was actually, I initiated the breakup. And so it gets in that way like,
00:11:29
Speaker
wasn't necessarily like blindsided, but I think a lot of different factors ended up playing in that I didn't think about when we had graduated college. Cause when we did graduate and move away, we were still dating and it was only a month after that we broke up. So it wasn't the timeline that I would have expected, but I think the sense was kind of there. Yeah. Was it pretty mutual? Like on both sides, like you knew kind of what was coming.
00:11:54
Speaker
I think I think we both knew and like somebody had to initiate it and I don't think either of us really wanted to wanted it to happen but it was more of that cerebral like this is probably what's best for us and it was definitely harder to accept I think for him as well to just like holding on to something that we were in for so long but it was more or less mutual. Okay okay I got you yeah.
00:12:19
Speaker
No, I mean, yeah, even if you know, like kind of in the back of your mind that something's not good, I mean, it's hard to like pull that trigger and kind of, I mean, you're not throwing away four years, but I can imagine like it probably feels like that loss. It's hard to like initiate something like that. Yeah, so was it, do you feel like the distance was like the major part of it? Or do you feel like that was more something that just like, again, like sort of like made those issues that you said were in the back of your mind more prominent?
00:12:49
Speaker
I think more the latter, because we started dating super young. We were both just out of high school and we both grew a lot over the four years of college and changed a lot as people. And I think we'd been kind of used to distance, honestly, because summer is in college. We weren't seeing each other. And then COVID happened in the third year, so we didn't see each other for a while. So a good portion of our relationship was long distance anyway. So I wouldn't say that that was the driving factor.
00:13:19
Speaker
But I think just getting older and changing as people and kind of realizing that there were, we had different needs and different things that we wanted out of a relationship as we matured. Like little things like that. And then, you know, yeah, there were other things kind of that played into it all, but just like little by little, you know? I guess, yeah. So I guess like immediately afterwards, like after you initiated the breakup, like what was your reaction really? I guess in the sense of like,
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah, like how did you react? How did you cope emotionally? Like what was like, I guess like, yeah, like just sort of like what was like that whole process been of like, like coming to terms with that. And I guess like, I imagine now like you have, you've processed it more and you had more time to sit with it. Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, actually I think it's interesting because, um, the thoughts had kind of been brewing for a while and then,
00:14:16
Speaker
later on, I kind of came to find out that there was some things that happened in the relationship that maybe like, that made me lose trust a little bit. And so I think that was also really what pushed me to be like, okay, I'd need to kind of move forward from this. And so there was the feeling of hurt was both and like grief of just mourning the loss of the relationship, but it was also like hurt from these things that had happened and anger towards
Post-Breakup Life in NYC
00:14:44
Speaker
him for these things that had happened as well so it was very confusing I think for a while it wasn't like super clear cut. I think since I've come to terms with it definitely and for the most part don't feel like strongly emotionally one way or another like negatively or positively about it but I definitely do think that there's still times in my life where I feel the impacts of the way that that relationship ended
00:15:09
Speaker
Have you ever felt the moment where you're like, oh yes, I've healed? Has that ever happened?
00:15:18
Speaker
I wouldn't say like 100%. There's never been like a, Oh yeah, I'm done. Like I've reached the next level, but there's definitely times where I'm like, Oh, I've improved. Like I'm healing and these things may have bothered me before or like might've weighed on me more before, but a year, a year later, two years later, those like little things don't affect me quite as much. And so like little benchmarks.
00:15:41
Speaker
I'm just curious, so like how do you feel like your second relationship factored into like the healing process for the first? And I guess like, yeah, just like same for that. Like, I guess like talk us through a little bit of what happened there.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah, so after, kind of right after my first breakup, or like during my first breakup, I was moving to New York and starting a job after college. And so in some ways that was helpful because I was just like all these new people and new things to do and just like living in this new very young city, it was easy to kind of have distractions and not think about it so much. And I wasn't really in the same environment that I had been when we broke up at all.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah, so it kind of allowed me to kind of separate or compartmentalize a little bit and So I had like wanted to live in New York my whole life. And so when I was when I got there, I was basically Just like I'm not gonna let this breakup ruin my experience here. I know it's a finite amount of time and so I
00:16:45
Speaker
basically kind of started dating pretty soon just like casually dating and going on dates pretty soon after because I also didn't know anybody in the city at that time and like what needed something to do with my evenings um and so yeah ended up
00:16:59
Speaker
kind of very casually dating for a while and then kind of started seeing somebody and fell into this situationship, basically, for lack of better words.
Long-Distance Relationship Challenges
00:17:11
Speaker
And it was one of those things where I knew that mentally I wasn't at a place where I had healed enough from my last relationship that I could truly commit to somebody else and be present in a relationship in that way, but also did really hit it off with this person.
00:17:25
Speaker
wanted to keep spending time with them and so it was definitely a weird situation of like me communicating those things and being very upfront about it but then this the the he was very much also like that's fine and I just kind of want to spend time with you in whatever way that is and so kind of had this basically like six nine month long
00:17:49
Speaker
situation-ship thing while I was living there. And then the following June, so June of 2022, I was moving to Seattle for med school. And so then it kind of became this question of like, do we just stop seeing each other now? Or do we try a long distance thing? And we were never, we weren't exclusive still.
00:18:12
Speaker
And so kind of in that whole moving drama again of like, what do I do now? I kind of was just like, all right, it's been a year now and I feel like I've spent so much time with this person, like my second boyfriend.
00:18:29
Speaker
that maybe I can commit in that way. Like maybe I've gotten to a point now where I can commit to a relationship. And so we tried long distance for, or we did long distance for about a year. But I think I started to also reflect and realize that like I didn't have the time that I probably needed to just truly be by myself in between. And so lots of little things happened there as well. And then we ended up breaking up this past July.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, but we're kind of seeing each other for about two years and yeah Yeah, especially with med school like dealing with those emotions from the first Relationship and then also trying to balance med school on top of that like I know like so many of my friends in med school It's just like
00:19:18
Speaker
they just uh like it's pretty much like decided that they're gonna date other people in med school so like they're like because otherwise it's hard to like fit schedules together like uh yeah just be with someone who can understand like how intense something that like that can be except no that makes a lot of sense but yeah spending another year still trying right ding yeah
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah, it was complicated. It definitely like scheduled. Was he a doctor too? He was not. No, he was also a software engineer. And so it was interesting because I think when we met, I was like working kind of just in between undergrad and med school and it was a very low stress job. And then I quit my job as soon as I got into med school. So like a few months in. And so I was very stress free when we met and it was
00:20:10
Speaker
very different than when I started school. My whole life changed and so the way that I kind of outwardly presented myself also changed just because my stress was so much higher and my time was so much more limited. And so then the nature of our relationship changed because of that as well.
00:20:30
Speaker
So do you feel like that one's something you're also still processing? Like what's the healing process been like for that? And how do you feel like, I guess, like that's overlapped with your first relationship? Yeah, definitely. Definitely still processing that one. And that one's still a lot, I mean, that one's a lot fresher. I think I don't want to discount that second relationship had a huge impact on me as well.
00:21:00
Speaker
just because it kind of started at a point in my life where I was still processing this past relationship. It wasn't like a, you know, it started kind of as a casual like, maybe a reboundy situation or whatever, but it did end up becoming something pretty serious
Self-Reflection and Boundaries
00:21:16
Speaker
for a while. And so there's definitely a lot of like, yeah, processing that and then still kind of
00:21:23
Speaker
Processing that I did did that right after the relationship before and how that might affect my previous partner And so it's it's very convoluted. Yeah Yeah, I mean I can imagine like you wouldn't have tried for like a whole year long distance unless like you were actually like like had some serious attachment Yeah Do you
00:21:50
Speaker
Do you feel like you, do you ever think like, oh, I should have done something differently. I should have done this I should have done that. I have had those thoughts but I think what I've come to realize is that thinking about the past in that way doesn't necessarily serve me. I think like in the initial stages it can in terms of reflecting and
00:22:14
Speaker
trying to find some takeaways of how to do things differently moving forward. But I've tried to let that go a little bit now that I'm more removed from both of those breakups, because I think it doesn't end up actually resulting in any positive change. And I kind of just feel shitty.
00:22:30
Speaker
And so I'm more trying to reframe as like, okay, well, this is what happened and how do I move forward with it or do things differently next time or kind of manage these friendships that I now have with these people in a way that is okay with me and okay for them as well. Yeah, that's fair. And where are you at now?
00:23:02
Speaker
Um, I'm at a place now where, where, I mean, I still get, I still miss those people. I miss them both. Like I think they both were very different and, um, our relationships were very different. I think that I've kind of, um, found a comfortable friendship with more so right now with my first partner from undergrad and
00:23:29
Speaker
I think the second one is still a lot fresher so still kind of figuring out how to navigate that space and like I'm the kind of person that I will do like no contact for a couple months but also it's hard because in my brain I'm like well we were really close for a really long time and so
00:23:49
Speaker
now that we're a little bit further out, like maybe I don't want this person to be completely gone for my life just because we didn't work out romantically. Which I think can be a crutch sometimes and maybe is just a way for me to keep these people around in my life without fully processing that we're not in a relationship anymore.
Metaphor of Breakup 'Ghosts'
00:24:09
Speaker
But I also think it's very centering in terms of not feeling like they're these people in my life or
00:24:15
Speaker
not feeling like there was this big loss just because one aspect of how I interacted with somebody didn't end up working out. Yeah. Otherwise it starts feeling like there's some kind of ghost. Yeah. You're just like, did that even happen? Like, yeah. Yeah. That's the real, yeah. Where it just like feels like a whole different life and like,
00:24:39
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess that's where I'm at now is kind of like, how do I manage, trying to manage like friendships with these, with both of them and have boundaries, but also like, um, be friends in a normal way and also not worry about how my feelings might be, like not feel guilty about the fact that I'm still friends with both of them or whatever. And so, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
00:25:08
Speaker
you mentioned the idea that you need to kind of get to that point where you can separate the romantic part of the relationship from the friendship. And you specifically mentioned how otherwise there's this feeling of a ghost in your life. I'm just curious, what exactly do you mean by that? By a ghost? Yeah. I mean, I think as part of processing the whole thing,
00:25:38
Speaker
Um, I think in, especially in the initial stages, I think when you're struggling with acceptance, like you, the acceptance of the current situation, right? And the current situation is you have love for this person. That person probably has love for you, but you're not together, right? Accepting all of those three things and like marrying them is really hard.
00:26:04
Speaker
What I ended up doing, and I'll explain why, but what I ended up doing for some time was just trying, whenever I was thinking about it, overthinking, just shut it down. Be like, no, that person doesn't even exist. That person is like, you're just imagining things. That whole relationship didn't even happen. Just as a coping mechanism to get out of that storm that I was in.
00:26:33
Speaker
Denial. Just denial. And I don't think it's a good thing. I don't think it's necessarily very helpful. I think it's like a slight pause from being in that storm, which I guess has its own purpose.
Healing and Self-Discovery
00:26:51
Speaker
But eventually you do have to marry those things. But while you're kind of convincing yourself, sometimes you have to convince yourself that
00:27:00
Speaker
No, I'm not gonna say, but I did. I'm not gonna say you have to. Actually, yeah, I don't think you have to, but I did. I ended up just telling myself, just trying to beat that into me. That person didn't even exist, because it was just so painful to accept the current reality. And then comes a certain point where you're living your life
00:27:28
Speaker
And if you start finding all the pieces and finding yourself getting involved in your own life, your previous life feels like a past lifetime. And especially if you have no contact, you don't see that person anywhere. That person is only in your memories, right? You don't see them anywhere else, but you do.
00:27:57
Speaker
You do because you see them like, I don't know, you see them while you're doing things. You're visiting something that you visited before. You're going to watch a movie. I'm driving and I look over to the passenger seat and like you see that person, but they're not there, right? That's what I mean by ghost. Got you, yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
No, that makes a lot of sense to me. It's almost like how a lot of times when people, I mean, a breakup is something traumatic, but when people go through trauma, it's like they wanna kind of deny that it even happened because it's so painful to engage with that it's like the only way they feel like they can move forward is kind of to pretend like it didn't happen, but it's like, yeah, like you're saying, that thing is just gonna keep haunting you until you finally get to a place where you think you can process it.
00:28:53
Speaker
So I guess then to move on from that now. Yeah, they know. Like how have you been, how have things been for you so far? Like after the breakup, have you been holding up? Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I'm figuring it out. I feel like a lot of the big, I keep saying this word, but storm, I would say like the big storm that was there just like above my head has like kind of passed, you know, like it's,
00:29:19
Speaker
It's not, I'm not in that storm anymore. Where it's just like, it's, you're just, every second of the day you're thinking about it and you really need distractions from it. Like, you know, it's like the first thing on my mind, it was the first thing on my mind waking up, last thing going to sleep, just like constantly there. But now I feel like I'm able to kind of divert the energy more into like,
00:29:46
Speaker
just staying present, really. And just divert the energy into working on different things. Like working on myself, working on things like my hobbies, stuff like that. And just into my own happiness, really. So yeah, I think that's where, I'm still figuring it out. It's still wavy.
00:30:16
Speaker
like it is, but yeah, that's where I'm at. Nice. I'm glad to hear that. Glad to hear at least the worst of the storm has passed. I'd say so. Yeah. Cool. So I guess what, what do you feel like that healing process looked like for you, like getting to this point? Do you feel like it was primarily time? Do you feel like there were certain things, things that you had to think through? Yeah.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say, yeah, there were a lot of things I had to think through, but also just time. I feel like, I don't know, in the beginning, like, it was just like a lot of suffering in the beginning, a lot of like, and then, I don't know, and for a long time, I just felt like I was in a daze. Like, it was just not,
00:31:12
Speaker
I was just not conscious completely, not able to be present, just lost in my head all the time. And just kind of doing things because they made sense to set it up for myself, even things like moving to New York. I feel like I did that, but I wasn't really conscious of what I'm doing. That all hit a couple months ago, a few months ago, I was like, oh shit, I'm actually here.
00:31:43
Speaker
So it was a lot of that. I think in the beginning there was a sense of like, I don't know, it's weird. Like I wanted, I felt like my heart was like wailing, you know, it was like, it was like, just like, like I wanted her to come save me.
00:32:01
Speaker
You know, like sitting there like an angry baby, like no, she has to come save me. Yeah, crying at the top of your lungs. Yes, exactly. But no, it was just like realizing that no, I had to save myself this time. Like I had to like, I had to do that. Just like talking, just like understanding my heart, understanding my brain.
00:32:28
Speaker
I think a lot, like working through that and like, you know, anything I need to think about, about how the relationship ended, where I'm at, like all that stuff. I kind of mentioned this before, but yeah, I feel like I had, as people do, but I don't know, maybe it was just more for me to some extent, like I'd relied on that relationship a lot for that stability, for the belonging, for the sense of purpose.
00:32:55
Speaker
Uh, so I had to like break all that down. Like I had to be like, okay, like I'm going to work on these things individually and like tackle them. Uh, and that's kind of the analytical side of it, but, um, on the other side, just yeah, developing a relationship with yourself so that you can fill in those holes with yourself. As they say, as cheesy as it sounds, it's true. It's fucking true. So it's just like that. Um,
Building Independence
00:33:22
Speaker
Yeah. So there's that. And then, so there was a big storm figuring all that out. Then, then I don't know, like it was kind of like, and it's still to some extent, it's like melancholy, you know, like it's not all inside you, but maybe you're able to understand your emotions. So you're projecting it onto the world, but it's like,
00:33:47
Speaker
Yeah. It was just like, it felt maybe, maybe cause it's the winter. I don't know, but it felt like it was the sadness was just in just everywhere surrounding me. It was just in the air, in the ether. There's a lot to say, man. I don't know. I don't know how to, in the beginning I just let go of everything. I was just like, I just let go of every, I just learned, I just learned how to exist.
00:34:15
Speaker
because I did it before. And I don't think that's a breakup thing. I just think that's something that I had to work on. And maybe it is a breakup thing. I don't know. But I just stopped caring about everything. Because before I cared about everything. Everything had to be a certain way. And I stopped caring. I just had to learn how to listen to myself.
00:34:44
Speaker
instead of getting, you know, being pulled in every direction possible by my anxious brain. And so yeah, I was just, I was living like a slob for months, like sleeping at 5am, waking up at 12, just not making my bed, just like,
00:35:08
Speaker
But I needed that. Huh? You calling me a slob? Yeah, like I was like, I was living like a here, guys. That's what happened. That's how you know your life's in a dark place. Yeah. But, but no, I mean, now I feel like, and then at a certain point, I realized I needed to add some structure or not needed. I wanted to add some structure to help me.
00:35:36
Speaker
to help then help me do the things that i wanted to do because if i didn't do the first part it would just been a repeat of everything that i was doing before and so i added structure to-do lists literally i have a to-do list right next to me every night i just write things on the board tomorrow i'm going to make breakfast every day i fucking write breakfast it's so stupid but i write it anyways i'm going to eat breakfast i'm going to go to the gym i'm going to
00:36:05
Speaker
you know, go try this food. I'm going to go meet this friend. I'm going to record this podcast. Just stuff like that, reminders. So I'm like slowly adding more structure in my life in a way that works for me because before it wasn't like that. So yeah, so again, like I'm figuring it out. It's starting, but it's starting to feel like a project again. I'm wanting to, like for the longest time I didn't want to even engage in my life. Like I just didn't want to be a part of it.
00:36:36
Speaker
And now I'm starting to engage in it. So that's where I'm at. Nice. Good to hear. So when you say you're starting to view your life as a project again, I'm just curious. Do you say that in a good way? Because I feel like
00:36:57
Speaker
I don't know whether you mentioned this when you were talking, but we've sort of talked, I guess, off the record. Just about like, for both of us, I think sometimes we get a little too like, like you said, right? Like trying to control everything in a sense, like trying to have everything planned out and structured. Like, do you feel like now you're kind of getting to a healthy place where maybe you are planning out your life, but it's not as obsessive necessarily, not as unhealthy?
00:37:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's doing it in a way that's not obsessive, it's flexible. I mean, I realized I needed to have some goals because it just didn't make sense. What was I doing? Every day I was just waking up and be like, why am I alive? What is the purpose of my life? All this shit.
00:37:46
Speaker
I spent a lot of time just, I don't know here. Like you would get messages from me at 4 a.m. I'm just like questioning everything. And yeah, I...
00:38:01
Speaker
I went through a lot, I read some philosophy. I was at my nihilistic, nihilist peak. And eventually, I realized that the point was to just live it, because you couldn't. You couldn't assign some all powerful, because there's nothing, what's the word I'm looking for? There's no absolute truth, right? It's like, you can say, okay, the purpose of my life is,
00:38:31
Speaker
X, Y, and Z, but you can poke holes in all of those things. You can either say, oh, the purpose of my life is to make the world better, which is, I guess, the noblest way to go about it, but there's something missing. Or you could say, oh, the purpose of my life is to provide for the people around me and to love the people around me.
00:38:55
Speaker
But then it's like, okay, but what about, why do you have to live for yourself then? And so it's, I don't know. The only answer that kind of made sense to me so far is just,
00:39:03
Speaker
You have to live it. You have to live for life's sake. Yeah, I don't know. Oh man.
Creating a Personal Narrative
00:39:12
Speaker
Obviously we're getting close to philosophy so my brain's going like a thousand different things for me to talk about. I see what you're saying. I feel like when you have something like a relationship that's so central to your life and your sense of self,
00:39:30
Speaker
figuring out how to keep going after that. I can I guess I have a sense of like where that purposelessness comes from. And I think it's almost like something you said about you're not sure if it's even like a breakup thing. Like I think it is like I think it is sort of like a very like it's like kind of like a yes or no thing where I think it's
00:39:50
Speaker
about like loss in general where it's like when you go through loss like part of it is just like the pain and accepting the pain of the loss and like another part of it is figuring out how to move forward now that you're missing that thing that you lost so um but yeah like that i feel like that's the more like analytical side of it and so it makes sense like you're sort of trying to like
00:40:12
Speaker
Reorient I guess like your life now that you don't have that in figuring out like okay like how do I direct myself now like where am I going now this thing that Was so core to like like my idea of the future like now that it's gone I Mean yeah, I mean let me know if that's like all bullshit since you're the one going through that makes perfect sense I saw this thing recently about like
00:40:35
Speaker
This guy talking about how everyone needs a story. Like you need a story. What is your story? You have to be the main character of your story. Otherwise, in absence of that, you're just floating. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually... So if you feel like your story ended, and it's just like pain afterwards, it's like you're not in a... How do you... Yeah. Yeah. Like if you see your story as like all bleak, like it's gonna be all bleak, right? Gaurat, that's...
00:41:02
Speaker
No, I mean, I think a lot of what you say resonated with me. I also think that we probably, I think we handled it all in very different ways, it sounds like. Which, like, at the core, I think the root cause, obviously, and like emotions are similar, but I think our approaches differed a lot, and it's interesting to hear
00:41:22
Speaker
kind of how did you get to that same goal and like what path did you kind of end up following? But yeah, I totally agree with that. I've come to appreciate the aspect of life that is just like doing it and like living it and not always, I think something that's helped is not always trying to
00:41:46
Speaker
make there be a point or like know what's going to happen or like predict how things are going to play out because there's always disappointment I think and so um not to say like there's like I don't have goals and expectations because I do but I also have like become more willing to just
Dealing with Breakup Guilt
00:42:08
Speaker
let things play out and realize that or like try to adopt that like everything happens for a reason you will get through it kind of mindset so yeah I almost feel like the situation kind of forces you to become like more okay with just like letting things happen because it's kind of like you can't do anything about the breakup right you kind of have to accept that like you don't have any control there because otherwise you're just you're never going to be able to move on yeah did you feel any existential dread
00:42:35
Speaker
me. Yeah. Well, I think I did. And I, part of it was like vague world things. And then part of it was also like the classic, am I just going to be alone forever then? And like, is this it for me? And like a lot of, I think a lot of it was kind of there. Like that was the level I was living at. But I think it also, I think it probably comes from the nature of our breakups too. And like what caused them and stuff. How do you feel like it was different for you?
00:43:04
Speaker
I think, well, for one, both of my relationships, I kind of initiated the breakup. And so I think it's just a whole different perspective from the jump in some ways of like that I was thinking about it for a while and it took me a while from when I kind of started to think that that might be the like next step or like might be what I needed.
00:43:29
Speaker
was definitely time between that and then like really thinking about it and coming to terms with it and then executing because I think that you don't really execute on those things unless you've really sat with it and thought about it and come to terms with it at least for me personally because it's all like the second guessing and really kind of playing out every possible scenario and trying to make sure that like this is truly what is best and I'm not
00:43:53
Speaker
then gonna look back and be like, well, I like messed through something away that was actually good for me. And so the timeline of processing, I think for me probably started a little bit earlier and like while I was still with this person or these people, I guess. And so lots of, I think part of it is like lots of guilt and cognitive dissonance too. And just like kind of like feeling like a really shit person for having these thoughts at all while I was like with somebody.
00:44:24
Speaker
And so I felt a lot of, um, in that way, I think maybe it was different. And then the kind of emotional processing that goes along with those feelings were probably a little bit different. And then also I think coping mechanisms were, sounds like we're a little bit different. Um, I like pushed things away and compartmentalized a lot and from the jump really kind of.
00:44:49
Speaker
almost just like just tried not to think about it and didn't even let myself get into like too obviously there was a little bit of it but like the kind of rabbit hole of just like depression rabbit hole situation like obviously I was did and do like struggle with mental health things and like it's not that that wasn't there but I think I did my best to address it by just like
00:45:15
Speaker
ignoring it and distracting myself and filling my time with other things so I didn't have to think about it. And so, yeah, I think those are probably the two big ways where it sounds like things were different. I've always been jealous of people who can compartmentalize. I feel like I can't. And it's like, God damn it, I feel like life would be so much better if I could. I don't know. It's kind of, it also just like sometimes makes me feel like a brick wall. I'm like, oh, I don't fucking feel anything.
00:45:45
Speaker
And like, what is wrong with me that this isn't devastating me in the way that it does for other people? And it's not that it isn't, but you just don't think about it. And so it like affects you. I think it affected me more kind of subconsciously. And then I would see like in little interactions, I would kind of see how the end of my relationships affected the way that I carried myself or my thought process or what I perceived as going on around me. And so,
00:46:16
Speaker
And then it was much later that I started like cognitively processing those effects and like letting myself, I feel sad and sit with those feelings. Cause I think if I had, if I hadn't compartmentalized and if I had just kind of leaned into it from the get go, it would have just been so devastating. And I don't know if I would have been able to handle those things at that time.
00:46:41
Speaker
That's so fair though. This is not fun. Yeah. I don't know. I think also like both of my, like the ends of both my relationships kind of had a trigger point or like a big thing that kind of pushed over the edge and both kind of came in the form of like something that made me lose trust in that person or like something that was really hurtful that I just couldn't move past. Like it was a deal breaker for me. And so I also really, I think,
00:47:11
Speaker
ended up feeling it affected my like sense of self worth a lot that this happened twice back to back and then really trying I think something I battled with was really trying to not let that trying
Exploring Emotions Post-Breakup
00:47:24
Speaker
not to feel like that was a reflection of me and it was something that I did or something that I deserved or whatever and so processing also like
00:47:33
Speaker
the hurt in the way or like grief, but more with the aspect of like, oh, this person made these choices and was willing to do those things that then like cross that line for me and that they knew would have crossed that line for me. And so kind of grieving that of like, oh, this person isn't necessarily who I thought. And because of this choice they made, the future that I had imagined is now going to like, is now down the drain. And so it was grief of loss and also just like,
00:48:04
Speaker
Like, yeah, the sadness around that feeling of betrayal, I guess. I don't know. And then I felt that I had to be the quote-unquote bad person that then ends this relationship. That's a lot of those two things, feeling betrayed and also feeling like the bad person is
00:48:27
Speaker
Those two are like ass on there, by themselves. Together they're like, what the fuck? It's a shit storm. Yeah. Not literally. How have you kind of dealt with feelings of, you know, doubts of self-worth? Do you feel like that's better now? I think every day is different and every situation's different. And I think some days I'm like,
00:48:56
Speaker
it feels like I'm very healed and moved past it and have kind of actually come to terms with the fact that that's not true. And then other days I wake up and it feels like, oh, I need to remind myself of that and fake it. And so, yeah, I wouldn't say I've healed from it. I think that it just every day is different. And some days I feel it and it really impacts me. And then some days I'm able to not think about it.
00:49:22
Speaker
I think it's very like other mental health stuff or other waxing and waning things. Yeah. Yeah. You have to keep reminding yourself. Like, I mean, I feel like that's part of the healing process itself is just developing that muscle of like, you know, positive thinking and catching yourself. Right. Because I don't know if you healing, I mean, the way we use the word healing
00:49:48
Speaker
kind of refers to our brains just working perfectly by itself without oversight, which is not really, you know, it's not a fair thing to expect. You're gonna have to be there. You're like the- No, that's true. Like what you were saying about like how we treat the mind where it's almost like we just assume by default, like it's gonna work perfectly. But like, I mean, we don't, I know, it's interesting. Like we don't think about that way with our bodies, like the amount of like, yeah. Yeah.
00:50:16
Speaker
It needs that consistent effort to take care of ourselves, right? To exercise. So I guess now that you've had some distance from the actual breakup itself, what do you feel like the most prominent feelings you had during your work? I mean, we've touched on grief and grief, loss, feelings of guilt, stuff like that. But I'm just curious, were there any feelings you didn't expect? And also, I guess, were there any positive feelings afterwards?
00:50:46
Speaker
I think I expected to feel more anger than I did and also I say that because I think when I was talking to my friends around both of these breakups they would get really angry and then they'd be like why are you not angry or why are you okay with still talking to this person or like why did it even like last as long as it did or whatever all of these things like they're very
00:51:13
Speaker
they were very fired up. And I think, and maybe it's just like the numbness of like not wanting to think about it and then not, so I didn't have to process it. But everything was kind of just a shoulder shrug for me of like, yeah, well, I don't know, it happened and I moved on and figured out what I needed to do. And like, it sucked, but whatever. And I don't know if that was like apathy because depression or actual just me not feeling angry, but I think that was something that I wouldn't have thought
00:51:44
Speaker
would have been my reaction. Did you kind of feel okay with that in the moment, or was it something that almost made you uncomfortable? I sometimes wish that I would get more upset about it, or that I had said certain things, or really
00:52:05
Speaker
been more clear about how shitty certain things were and but also i think that was just exhausting yeah and it was like another way for like this person to affect my like mental state yeah and so i kind of just it was easier just to not and so i didn't and it didn't really bother me that's fair also i mean
00:52:32
Speaker
I don't know if there's a, you guys can correct me, but I feel like my friends are more protective of me than I am of myself. So like, and yeah, so I feel like that's generally true. And so it makes sense that they would get more mad. I know maybe, maybe we need to be more protective of ourselves. Like that's where probably drawing boundaries comes in, you know?
00:52:55
Speaker
Maybe not as productive as our friends because then you'd just be angry at everyone, but like, you know, maybe a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe standing up for ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Just to once again plug the mindful self-compassion workbook.
00:53:14
Speaker
That's something they talk about a lot for being, for like developing self-compassion is just like that idea of treating yourself how you would treat a friend or how your friends would treat you. Like we don't treat ourselves with like the same grace and like the same like understanding that we give to our friends a lot of times. Yeah. How about you, dude?
00:53:45
Speaker
I don't know I didn't I don't think I expected I didn't expect a whole lot going into it because I didn't think I was just in it suddenly and so I mean the whole process has been very much unexpected but yeah like very much needed that's been the feeling throughout it was never like oh god yeah
00:54:07
Speaker
like why me, why like this shouldn't be, I mean, yes, initially, yes, but like in general, like not like, oh, this shouldn't have happened. I needed this. Like there was always this sense of like, I needed that I had thought about before. Like maybe I do need some time, right? And I realized what that relationship was giving me and I think it was just,
00:54:36
Speaker
able to address things more clearly. I didn't, feelings I didn't expect, like I didn't expect to realize that I had such a, I never realized that I had such a negative, you know, self, like inner voice. And so that was surprising that like, oh, I do have things I need to, I need to change the way that I interact with myself.
00:55:02
Speaker
We would talk about all this stuff in the past tense, but like it's not, it's not past tense really. Like, I mean, it's a continuous thing. Like, I don't know, like there are still things I'm unpacking, you know? Like it's not like, Oh, I figured it all out. Like there's still things I'm unpacking. Um, yeah. Anything I guess you want to like talk about or do you think you need some more time before you're ready?
00:55:29
Speaker
about what I'm attacking, like unpacking. I feel like most of it is just like, I kind of talked about this before, just like understanding the nature of relationships and just like love and that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know, maybe I was taking dating too seriously.
00:55:54
Speaker
But I mean, I grew up on Bollywood movies, okay? It's like, I grew up with this idea of love that it was enough. Like you just, you needed love. And like it was some kind of magic key that, you know, if you had it, you will figure everything else out. Like you have to, there's no other option. And I mean, I guess I'm realizing that it's not that, it's not like, I don't know what it is.
00:56:25
Speaker
It is powerful still, but it's not like that. It's not above everything. It's powerful, yes, but it's also fluid. It's fickle. It's fleeting. And then when it's gone, you're wondering if it was even there in the first place. And then you realize that, no, it was real, but maybe it served its purpose.
00:56:55
Speaker
Maybe like, you're not supposed to put that kind of pressure on it because maybe once it's time for it to leave, if you don't let it go, it just, it cracks from all that pressure instead of just retreating gracefully. And I don't even know if that's possible, but yeah. So that, so I guess like, yeah.
00:57:22
Speaker
What I'm trying to say is that all of you should break up with your partners because it's not going to work out. Okay, trust me. No, I'm kidding. But like, I don't know. I'm just understanding, trying to understand the nature of it and like things are helping me. Like I'm reading some books, like just trying to feel it out. Like I saw La La Land for the first time. Jesus fucking Christ, that movie is like, I feel like it's...
00:57:51
Speaker
I liked it. I felt like it made me understand what I was going through. It made me kind of get unstuck. That movie, Arrival, I don't know, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Just reading books like White Nights by Dostoevsky, Men Without Women. There's so many, I don't know. Just feeling it out.
00:58:16
Speaker
I'm still understanding it. Do you, I don't know. Does anyone really ever just like, Oh, I understand how this works. Like, I don't know. Is that possible? Do you feel like I hear the master relationships, like, you know, you figured it out clearly. I wouldn't really say that, man. I mean, I honestly feel like everything you're saying about love, like, even though I haven't like broken up with my girlfriend, like that is something that like, we've definitely gone through where we've had those periods where we realized like,
00:58:45
Speaker
There are periods where we go through rougher times, and it's like, love isn't this beautiful, perfect thing, right? Love takes a lot of hard work. Love takes a lot of effort. Love can be very fleeting. There are even times where I feel like we tell each other that, oh, I know I love you, but that's not what I'm necessarily feeling right now, when we have bad arguments or when we have tough times. So I definitely agree with what
00:59:13
Speaker
like the sort of realizations you've been coming to. And yeah, I definitely don't think there's ever a point. Like I'm sure, I think a lot of people do tell themselves like, Oh, I understand love. Oh, I understand loss. Like I understand all of these things, but there's always like new levels, right? There's always new things to understand and explore and like new perspectives to gain. And it's like, it's kind of like the process of like every time you come into it with your understanding and you're kind of like, Oh, like,
00:59:41
Speaker
I kind of like know what to do. Like I've learned from last time, but then you get knocked back down again and something new comes up and that's just the process, right? There'll never be an end. Yeah. But I guess you need those periods of like, Oh yes, I have figured it out. It's nice. Oh yeah, definitely.
01:00:05
Speaker
Like, because without it, then what's the point? If you're always just questioning everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to have like confidence in where you are at the same time as like being able to realize when problems come up, right? How about you, Gura? Is there anything you feel like you're still trying to unpack?
01:00:28
Speaker
I mean, I think like, it's hard to say specifically, I think a lot of it is like, little things day by day. Like, I don't know, I'll be in a new situation. And then it reminds me of something. And then I realized that, oh, there's this way to look at this whole situation. Or there was this other thing that I didn't consider or oh, this is still affecting me. And so I think it's like, I'm constantly like unraveling
01:00:57
Speaker
more things. And I think that, especially when it comes to kind of dating post breakup too, I think that's a huge port, like I think that triggers a lot of unpacking that I just like haven't done yet. And so yeah, I don't, I think I'm still, it's all a big work in progress. Yeah. It's very good. Have you been dating since your last relationship? Have you been going on dates?
01:01:24
Speaker
I've been on a few like here and there. I'm not, I mean, I don't have like much time to be honest, but I also don't really, I think I'm not really dating to find anything serious. It's more just like for the experience of it. And so, um, not super frequently, but like every once in a while,
01:01:50
Speaker
So like, I think a good level of it right now and like my expectations are like, I don't have expectations and I'm not like looking for anything, but it's just like, I think there's just joy in meeting people and talking to people. Yeah. And so kind of like that is the way in which I'm dating right now, but it's been good. Give or take. Nice. Yeah. I think it's, yeah, go ahead.
01:02:21
Speaker
Oh, I was just I was saying that I think it's like good in the sense to be able to reframe it in that way. And like, I think immediately after relationships, I was dating to kind of fill that hole of like, oh, I was constantly talking to somebody or like had somebody to share things with and now I don't. And so
01:02:40
Speaker
initially when I was dating after relationships it was like trying to like fill that time or find that the next whatever like whoever was gonna fill that role for me and so I think since it's I think that because it's been two breakups and now I've had time I've kind of really been able to approach it more of like
01:03:01
Speaker
I'm just doing this for myself to like have a good evening. And then if it goes somewhere, then great. And if it doesn't, then fine. And that's been newer. But I think it's been a healthy way to be able to go on dates and do those things without feeling guilty or then like overthinking or getting back into this like rabbit hole of processing my old breakups.
01:03:34
Speaker
That's fair. I think that's pretty healthy. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, it sounds healthier than most alternatives. What about you, Devon?
01:03:54
Speaker
I have gone on dates. I did date in the beginning when I moved to New York, but in the beginning it was very much just insecurity based. I had to get out there and just prove to myself that I could do it first. And once I did that, got the experience, figured out how it works.
01:04:21
Speaker
Just, I don't know, I mean, I just had a lot, the first time I just had a lot of anxiety, like going and meeting, talking to someone that I'd never talked to before. So just like overcoming that, realizing that, oh, okay, I'm actually pretty good at conversation, this is fine. Going through that process, realizing that, okay, I see what this is, it's fine. It's like, it's not that great. It's not all the hype, I guess. It's okay, people are,
01:04:51
Speaker
Like yes, it's nice to meet people, but also people are just people. If you can meet people in other ways, you can do that too. It doesn't have to be dates. So I did that and now I'm just at this point where I went on a lot of dates in a very short span of time. And now I'm just like, I don't want to.
01:05:14
Speaker
I want to, like I know that I'm not looking for anything. I don't have space for someone in my life right now. I just can't, I would be a terrible boyfriend if I was to date someone right now. So I'm not, I just realized, I just started to value my own time and my own energy and put that towards things that I actually want to do, that might give me more happiness and invest in those things.
01:05:43
Speaker
Like I've joined sports leagues, like I'm playing volleyball and pickleball and spending certain days like, you know, working on the podcast, you know, and then some time just to myself doing something else creative, like just hanging out with friends. I've been investing a lot in new friendships. That's been, that's been very fulfilling. So yeah, that's, I don't know. I don't want to, you were, you were mentioning this like Gar you were saying like,
01:06:12
Speaker
Oh, the feeling of, oh, I'm always going to be alone. Like maybe this is it. I'm trying to, I don't know. I'm kind of comfortable now with the idea of just being, I mean, I know it sounds stupid, but like just being the fun uncle, like, is that so bad? Like, I don't know. It sounds pretty great. Like, yes. Yes. You can call me fucking like naive and oh yeah, this guy just went through heartbreak.
01:06:37
Speaker
It doesn't sound too bad right now. I don't know if I could do, if I want to do all this again. I know, I probably will at some point, but yeah. No, that's fair. I think it's like super important. And what I'm also realizing is like the time by yourself is very important or like I'm now realizing the value of that.
01:07:04
Speaker
And like, there are people who, that's just what they want in life. And so no harm in being the fun uncle, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's honestly a very healthy perspective, like to be just comfortable where it's like, if life takes you to a point, like you'll just be happy on your own, right? That you're comfortable enough with yourself that you don't feel like you necessarily need someone. Yeah.
01:07:31
Speaker
I mean, it's nice, right? It's like, it's literally the worst case scenario. Yeah. And if you're not afraid of the worst case scenario, it's fine. You won't have that like constant anxiety of like, oh, I'm gonna end up alone. Yeah. Because this shit is like, it feels like a lottery, like, you know, you just keep
01:07:53
Speaker
investing in Bitcoin. It's a pyramid scheme. I hear, do you ever feel like you wish you got this whole casual dating experience? You ever wake up and you're like, man, I wish I was in a relationship.
01:08:22
Speaker
I wonder what that feels like.
01:08:27
Speaker
I wonder how much I can save. No, actually me and Asha are very comfortable with this. We both talked about it with each other too. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely something we both talked about where it's like, even in college, right? Like we started dating like one month into college. So it's like, and we've never like been intimate with anyone else. Like we never like fucked around or anything. So it's like, there is that part of me that wonders like, oh, like how, who would I be? Like if I didn't have her in my life, you know, if I just like had to kind of like develop on my own and like,
01:08:57
Speaker
how would those experiences like change my life, you know, like meeting new people, just being more casual in my like, yeah, in my relationships. But I think it's like, I think it's, I think it's like, how do I put it? I think I'm in like in a, I'm trying to find a good way to put it, give me a second. What you're trying to say has literally never been put into words.
01:09:29
Speaker
It's like I guess that I kind of know that like it's sort of like a life path that I guess hopefully I'll never have and it's kind of like I feel at this point like I'm comfortable either way if we stay together for the rest of my life like I know I know that that's what I want and I know that I'm not like if I weigh those two it's not worth it for me to like yeah like it's not something I guess that that
01:09:53
Speaker
Is that important to me compared to my relationship, but at the same time, like I do think that like and obviously like this is still a struggle like Sunday's are better than others, but at the same time, like I do think there's a part of me that like I want to be comfortable with the idea that like
01:10:08
Speaker
I could, like, my life could go on, like, even if something happened to our relationship. And then it's like, like, I'm not gonna just dwell on that for the rest of my life, you know? Like, that's an opportunity to explore these new experiences that I'd never had in the past, you know? So it's sort of like, to like summarize my thoughts, it's kind of like, I'm trying to, I kind of try to see both sides where I do think, like, there are things that I missed out, but at the same time,
01:10:35
Speaker
Like being able to see the value in those new experiences that I'll hopefully never have while at the same time like being happy with where I am right now and understanding like that's like a choice that I'm making and one that I'm happy with. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. But that's the thing that path you were mentioning. Yeah, that's why like I don't know. That's why it's so important for
01:11:02
Speaker
For me, at least, it was so important that I have this single time because that thought of like, oh, if this didn't work out, if I was in a relationship and it didn't work out, that was terrifying. I mean, people get divorced at 20 years after marriage.
01:11:26
Speaker
It's like at that point, like if you never had that sense of self or like if you never felt comfortable with the idea that like, yes, at the end of the day, you are by yourself, then that would be terrifying. That would be like insanely difficult. So that's why I'm very glad that I have this right now. I'm developing that. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, I feel like- I think, go ahead.
01:11:56
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I feel like even for me, like that's only something like, I feel like I went through that same struggle, just like in my relationship where it's like for me and Asha, like after graduation, like, I think like even now that we've moved in together, like a lot.
01:12:12
Speaker
of like the trouble that comes up and a lot of like the conflict comes out of that sense of trying to develop that where it's like we're both trying to have individual lives and individual like senses of self where we feel like secure in ourselves as individuals while still balancing that with like our relationship and allowing that to like evolve like as we evolve as people and like obviously like trying to keep that together while still like being true to ourselves and yeah.
01:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, what I was thinking about when you were saying that. So my first relationship also started very early in college and then was the entirety of college. And so a lot of that time that I think college is classically branded as one of those times where you get to know yourself and find who you are.
01:13:02
Speaker
And so that whole part of development and of my life was done with somebody attached at the hip to somebody else. And so my initial sense of self was very rooted in this other person as well. And so I think that was one of the things that was really difficult about letting go of that relationship was
01:13:25
Speaker
I viewed it as, I think, there was a finding, figuring out how to exist in a relationship, not because I felt that I had to and that there was no other way to keep my head above water, because it was the only adult reality that I knew, versus realizing that that is not what I want for my future and want my life to be. And I want it to feel like every day that I'm in a relationship, it's because I'm choosing to be there.
01:13:55
Speaker
as an individual person it's like serving me and obviously like so much empathy towards the other person and I obviously care about how it's affecting them as well but just being okay with having that more selfish point of view sometimes yeah so that I don't get trapped in that like oh this is the only way I can exist is with this other person so I have to be here yeah you want to want your partner and not meet them yeah yeah
01:14:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think like that's a big reason honestly why a lot of people like especially who have been together for a while in college end up breaking up because I think like
01:14:37
Speaker
Yeah. Like, especially once you're out of like that structured environment and it's like, like before that, like they're at school and everything, like you have these clear goals, you have this clear structure, like something that you need to do. And after that you kind of realize like, Oh, I can kind of do anything now. And it's like, I feel like to a certain extent, I don't even like, I don't have like a strong enough sense of who I am to even know what direction to move in. Yeah. But I mean, so now like.
01:15:06
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like now it's because you separated. Okay. Like be with someone because you want to be with that person instead of needing. And it's just, I know the idea of that is like, I feel like I'm going to struggle with like, cause I don't know. Like if it's like, you're not going to want to be with someone all the time. Yeah.
01:15:25
Speaker
Like it's just not possible. You're not every day of your life. You're not. So like what? You're just going to, every time things get difficult and you don't want to be there, you're just leaving. Maybe that's okay. I don't know. But that also seems not great. I mean, I don't know. I feel like there's nuance though.
01:15:43
Speaker
I think that's where like, and I hear you mentioned this earlier of like, oh, even when in that moment you're like arguing with somebody and you're like, I don't really like, you might not be feeling actively like thinking about how much you love this person or like how great this person is in your life. When you make like a long, I don't know, I think that like when you make that kind of long-term commitment, it's about being able to find that place of knowing
01:16:09
Speaker
Okay, yeah, maybe in this moment right now things would be easier if I wasn't here with this person and if I was by myself. But also like I've invested all of these things and taking a step back like I do really love and care about this person and value them in my life. And so that's why I'm choosing to go through this difficulty and these times where maybe it's not like always the most positive thing.
01:16:33
Speaker
because you've built that foundation. And I think that like, that's how, at least for me, like that's when you kind of come to realize if that doesn't exist anymore, and you're not able to kind of take that step back and view it through that lens, or like when I'm, if I'm at that point, then that's when I kind of know that, okay, this is where I make that decision of the want right now.
01:17:00
Speaker
isn't there and I can't justify the feeling or whatever. I guess you have to keep asking the question. That's the thing. You have to keep going through that process. Yeah.
01:17:16
Speaker
No, 100%. And I honestly, Gora, I think you hit the nail on the head. That was literally the part of what I said that I was going to bring back up. But yeah, I think it's about, yeah, in the moment, you might not necessarily want someone. But at the same time, when we have an argument, you might not feel that. But then when we take that step back, when we have that time apart, it's about recognizing, yeah, I do still love this person, even if it's not necessarily what's
01:17:44
Speaker
what i'm feeling like the most strongly right now and like what you were saying about like it like making that choice constantly like i think that's exactly the point because it's like every time after an argument where we come back and we sort of like resolve it that's us consciously choosing to do that every time you know like if the situation was bad enough and we didn't work together like we would choose not to get back together you know we would choose not to resolve it but
01:18:13
Speaker
that feeling of like wanting like you can't like the security and the relationship come i feel like comes from that feeling that like every day i'm choosing to be with you and that's something that i want to do and like it's not something where i need to be with you it's not something where it's just like oh we've been together for so long like that's why i'm with you but it's that like that feeling that like oh every day like there's small things that like remind me like why i love her and like that make me
01:18:42
Speaker
like feel like yeah I could maybe get new experiences like with new people like casually dating and stuff like that but I'm choosing not to do that it's not just something that's like falling into my lap because my life is this way like I strongly believe like love is much more of a process than it is feeling a lot of the time yeah I agree with that too I think it's something that you kind of
01:19:08
Speaker
make and work on together and then it's again like about evaluating every day like is this what I want given all of the information or everything that's happened or you know um because you can also like still love somebody then but not be in a relationship or like not be able to continue dating them right so I think it all plays together too yeah
01:19:37
Speaker
I don't know. I had a question. Did you have any big breakthrough moments where you were like, I don't know. I mean, there's been times where I felt like, there are times where it's like, oh, I see this differently now. Oh, maybe it will be okay. Oh, this isn't so bad. That kind of stuff, that sudden realization, like, oh, maybe I'm not a terrible person. Have you had those moments?
01:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely have. I think, well, in terms of the last thing you said of, like, oh, maybe I'm not a terrible person. If I were to be honest, I think the realizations around things like that have come when I get third party perspective.
01:20:28
Speaker
Um, which isn't maybe like the healthiest way to, or like the most healed or centered way to do it or whatever, but, um, I definitely lost myself a lot in the process of like breaking up and dating and breaking up and all that stuff. And so.
01:20:45
Speaker
like as cheesy as it sounds like talking to people who have known me for my whole life and being able to like people that I know I can like truly truly be honest with and not have to like sugarcoat things or whatever and just like hearing somebody else's perspective or like their reflection of me like what
01:21:07
Speaker
they know to be true about myself when I forgot a lot of things. I wouldn't say like necessarily in those moments, but after sitting with it, those conversations for a while and reflecting on them, I started being able to apply with my friends or whoever, you know, kind of talked to me about. I began kind of taking those thoughts and like
01:21:36
Speaker
Yeah, being able to apply them to my daily life where it kind of just sit with them. And I think those things are kind of what pushed me in that direction or like helped me kind of make some of those realizations.
01:21:48
Speaker
But I think the actual big moments of feeling shift were when I was doing things by myself that I never would have done before. And for so long, I was just so not able to spend time by myself for things that I wouldn't do on my own. And so when I started doing things on my own and realizing that I could make whatever choice I wanted and truly do whatever without considering anybody else,
01:22:14
Speaker
those were some of those moments where I was like, yeah, this is like, it's going to be okay. And this is so cool. And I literally never would have done it if this shitty breakup didn't happen. So I'm glad you brought that up. That's like, oh man, the doing things with yourself. Like, yeah, I remember the first time I went to watch a movie by myself.
01:22:36
Speaker
That was nice. That was like, oh, I can do this. Just eating by myself. I don't, was, I mean, I'm sure, was, did you solo, have you solo traveled before your breakup or was it after? Oh, um, after the, so I did like trips with friends beforehand, but yeah, by myself was after. Yeah. Um, that must've been big.
01:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, huge. Part of it is you're by yourself so you have to do things on your own. And I think that helps. Well, I don't have any other choice really, so I'm just going to do these things. One of the big trips, I just bought my flights in and out and booked my stay for the first city. And then I was like, okay, well,
01:23:26
Speaker
I don't have anything else planned and I'm just gonna figure it out as I go and then make it to my final stop and then fly back home. And it was so cool to be able to like every day decide like, what do I want right now? Like what do I wanna, where do I wanna go or what do I wanna do? And like truly not work, like think about making sure somebody else was okay or like incorporating what somebody else wanted.
01:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, that was huge It's so much easier to plan for two people Like the moment the moment it goes like one person you're like, oh you're planning for yourself It's like hey, I'll just stay home whatever like, you know, so Yeah, that was big. I mean Yeah, even my solar trip like I feel like Both of them I think the second one more so like they just went
01:24:26
Speaker
to Costa Rica a couple months ago. And that was like, yeah, I was fully able to just be present there and realize that like, hey, like my happiness is worth something, even if it's just me. And just kind of, yeah, like you said, just answer that question every day. Like, what do I wanna do today?
01:24:52
Speaker
Um, just learning how to accept, I think for the longest time, I just didn't want to accept happiness at all. I don't think I ate dessert for like four months. I just couldn't. Like I, it just wasn't worth it. Yeah. But just learning to accept happiness again and then giving it to yourself repeatedly was, that was huge. Yeah. And I think, I think solo travel just the move to New York solo travel,
01:25:23
Speaker
just to help me kind of get through that process a little bit. Yeah, that's interesting. I can't say that. I don't think that that was the case for me, so it's interesting to hear about. Yeah. I definitely, though, am the type to listen to sad music and make myself sadder and do those things and be like, oh, I don't deserve happy right now. And so I did that to a little bit of an extent for sure.
01:25:54
Speaker
But it's, yeah, it's interesting to hear kind of what that looked like for you. I still listen to sad music. Oh yeah. Let's cathartic. It's so nice. Yeah, I also think moving cross-country, like moving, especially because New York is like, there's always shit to do. So you just step out of your apartment and like, yeah, it's, it's helpful. It's really helpful because you don't have the like barrier to entry is pretty low for anything. Right.
01:26:25
Speaker
that was definitely super helpful for me too. It was just like getting there and my whole like day to day it's so different from if you're still in the place where like you had like your breakup was or whatever and around those people and then that's kind of all you think about.
01:26:44
Speaker
I needed more single friends and I
The Single Life Observation
01:26:46
Speaker
found them here. All my friends are in relationships. Can you believe it? Like literally like 95% of my friends in home are in happy relationships. What the fuck? Jesus Christ. No, I just know so many single people from the Bay who are just like, as soon as they broke up with long-term relationships, they're like, we're going to New York.
01:27:13
Speaker
Oh, man. Speaking of sitting on the bay, I was invited to this party next week, and it's on a Thursday. And so they sent out a text blast saying, giving some instructions and stuff. And one of the instructions was, yes, this party is on a Thursday. If you have a problem throwing down on a Thursday, please move to San Francisco. I thought that was hilarious.
01:27:41
Speaker
I'm gonna send it to all my barrier friends, you fucking losers. That's interesting. I feel like, I feel like Asha would go out a lot on Thursdays, but maybe that's just her. Keep your opinions to yourself, bro.
01:27:58
Speaker
I should stop talking. It's an involvement. Yeah, you're in Seattle, man. Come on. That's true, that's true. Fuck us FDBH. Monkey left is better than every club in San Francisco. Okay, these are just facts, bro. I'm not gonna argue with you here. Saying she went out on Thursdays does not mean that the nightlife scene was better on Thursdays, or any day of the week.
01:28:24
Speaker
Today's episode is brought to you by the Erase Her Pill.
01:28:28
Speaker
You remember that machine they had in the turtle sunshine of the spotless mine? The one that deletes all your ex's memories? What if I told you they turned that into a real thing? You no longer have to sit there in your musty, broody melancholy. You don't have to listen to Hans Zimmer, or Urjit Singh, or Hozier, or Taylor Swift while walking down the street going to the gym. I mean, obviously, where else are you gonna go? You lonely fuck. You don't have to keep watching those sad reels on the toilet with the pianos in the background.
01:28:56
Speaker
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01:29:11
Speaker
and wonder if the weird operator is going to invite his girlfriend over and have sex in your house while you're unconscious? No, no, no. This is just a pill. All you have to do is connect your neural link to their server and upload your brain map along with your ex's name and picture. Then they will send you a pill and then you take that pill and swallow it specifically with pineapple juice. Yeah, I know you don't keep pineapple juice anymore, but you're just gonna have to go get some for it to work.
01:29:35
Speaker
because it won't otherwise. But anyways, you take the erase her pill before going to sleep and boom, the next day you will have forgotten her completely. Now you've moved on without doing the work of moving on. Perfect. Focus on that mission, focus on the grind, get that back, get those six pack abs. Then eventually, when you start dating someone else, you get to make the same mistakes and ignore the same red flags all over again. They do say life is cyclical, right? I mean, it's meant to be. So go get it. It's worth it.
01:30:04
Speaker
I think it'll be great. Just go to eraserpill.com and use code BLUNTROTATION15 for a 15% discount. And now back to the show. I mean, I kind of, I don't know, like listening to you guys, like describe this stuff, like, you know, all the things you guys said about, you know, choosing it every day and all
Evolving Relationship Perspectives
01:30:23
Speaker
that stuff. It makes me, it makes me feel like a kid when it comes to, I don't know. Cause like, I feel like I'm still coming out of this very like,
01:30:32
Speaker
maybe like a more naive interpretation of what relationships are meant to be and what love is meant to be. But yeah, it's cool. I feel like I'm growing up now. Yeah, I mean, I think it is like very much like a back and forth thing too, right? It's not like I necessarily feel that every day, right? There are times where I feel like I need her and I like really rely on her and depend on her. Yeah.
01:31:02
Speaker
And there are other times where I am hopelessly romantic and I just feel like to the moon about who she is and our relationship and stuff. I think it's just about being able to weather the problems as they come and keep everything in perspective. Yeah. Just continuous evaluation. Check in.
01:31:26
Speaker
I'll also say, like, I think it's ideal. Like, I don't think I'm there. Oh, yeah, 100%. That's where I want to be. And like, I try to be but it doesn't. Yeah, I wouldn't say that's like truly how I exist all the time. Yeah, yeah, I will say, especially for me, like, I think that I kind of, like, I kind of have like, two sorts of like problems where like, sometimes I feel like you where I feel like, oh, I really need her. Like, I really like depend on her. Like, I can't imagine like, how
01:31:55
Speaker
how would I live my life without her? She feels that crucial. But I think that other times, for me specifically, I very much an individualist. And I think sometimes, you know me, when I'm going through trouble a lot of times, I just go radio silent and just go on my own. Because I think even to a toxic
01:32:14
Speaker
level to some extent like I feel this need that like oh I need to be completely self-sufficient like I need to be able to like Like exist without relying on anyone else or needing anyone else with support. So Yeah, I mean it's not like something that's easy. I think yeah It is like again like something that you negotiate every day trying to like find a balance. Yeah There are certain things you have to do every day. Yeah
01:32:39
Speaker
I feel like I've always been in this mode where it's like, yeah, you work on something, and then it's done.
Daily Actions Reflect Life
01:32:45
Speaker
It's fixed. But it's not like that. Yeah. I saw this quote the other day. I'm definitely going to butcher it, but it was basically along the lines of how you live your life every day when you wake up is how you live your life. And so I think it's, at least for me, I think about
01:33:08
Speaker
how I like want to live my life or like what, um, just like these ideas of like what my perfect day or like all these things would look like and like the mindsets that I want to carry. But then I like finished thinking about all that stuff and like don't do it. And so I think the current, it's like a big goal or like something that I'm always working on and have just now realized that I need to work on is like, okay,
01:33:34
Speaker
I can like theorize about all these things, but like I need, if I don't put it into practice every day, then like all the time is going to go by and I'm still just theorizing about these things. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely a big thing for me where it's like, I want to think like, Oh, I checked this thing off. I'm done now. Everything's good. And yeah, it's kind of difficult to realize like, no, like you need, like if you don't discontinuously put an effort, like it's things are never going to like,
01:34:04
Speaker
stay stable. Yeah. Something happened. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's the thing. I mean, even meditate for like, I don't know, like I'll meditate for two days. And I'm like, no, I'm good. And then the third day I won't do it. I just won't do it. No matter what. If I'm not feeling shitty, I won't do it. Yeah, yeah. I feel you. And it's fucking terrible. I need to do it. It's like, oh man, I'm so bad at taking care of myself.
01:34:33
Speaker
It's like the eternal struggle, right? Like you do something, you feel better, and then you're like, oh, I don't need to do this thing anymore, I feel better now. But then it's like, you just end up back in the same place because you don't do it personally. What's the line from BoJack? It gets easier, every day gets a little easier, but you gotta do it every day, that's the hard part. And the thing you said about how you live every day is how, I mean, that's something that I've been working on quite a lot, right?
Acceptance of Imperfection
01:35:03
Speaker
I feel like I was just miserable all the time before. And now I'm realizing, oh, I don't have to be miserable. Everything is fine the way it is. That floppy pizza has value. I don't have to be miserable about it. It doesn't have to be crispy. It doesn't have to be hot. It's okay. It's okay that the pizzas look warm and floppy. Oh, man. Which pizza spot hurt you? No, dude, it's the pizza, man.
01:35:31
Speaker
Yeah, the pizza is a metaphor for everything. Yes. You know, you can just ask the pizza guys to make your pizza extra crispy. No, but then that's like... You need agency. But that just means you're not satisfied. And like ever, you know? I think this metaphor is going to interesting things. No, you can't ask. I have to suffer because I can't ask for my pizza toast a little longer. No, what I mean is you don't have to suffer like it's okay.
01:36:02
Speaker
Like not that I'm not saying don't ask because you should stop. No, I kind of get it. I'm saying it has value. It still has value. Like it's different. You know, like they're like, I don't know. Like,
01:36:22
Speaker
It's cool to eat a floppy pizza sometimes. It's like, oh, this is this one. I mean, certain things you just, you don't, I mean, I feel like we put these things on tears and it's like, no, this has to be this way. Otherwise there's no value. Just realizing that, yes, this floppy pizza still, you know, it still satisfied my hunger. It still tasted good.
01:36:43
Speaker
Like, yeah, it wasn't perfect, but it did the job, I don't know. No, I... I'm... Yeah. I actually know... Like, pushing with you? Yeah. No, I know exactly what you're talking about, Brad. Like that, like, because I feel like I get in the same headspace a lot of times, or if something isn't perfect, my brain just goes to like, oh, I need to, like, next time I need to fix this, and I just, like, just ruminate on that, like, everything that's wrong when it's like, yeah, a floppy plate pizza, like, maybe that's not perfect compared to what I wanted, but...
01:37:13
Speaker
It's still, I can still enjoy it, right? I can still have a good time eating it and I'm just going to lose out on everything that's valuable about it by like fixating on like, oh, this is like worse than another type of pizza that I could have gotten. All you're doing is just ruining that moment. Yeah. I also, I like similar, but if something is not perfect or if I don't think I can do something perfectly, then I like won't do it.
01:37:38
Speaker
And so also just like, I'm like, oh, I want to be able to like do a whole like perfect morning routine and like get up and don't use my phone and walk outside and make breakfast and wait for 20 minutes. But then if I wake up and I'm like, well, I can't do all that shit, then I won't do one of the things. Like, well, I could like walk outside for five minutes still, even if I can't do the 20 other things I wanted to do. And then that like holds me back and I just like don't do stuff because it's like not exactly how I like wanted it to be perfectly.
01:38:08
Speaker
Yeah. Me not doing anything during the day because I only did 19 out of 20 things I had on my checklist in the morning. Yeah. That's why I picked one thing. You know, it'll be like one thing that I need to do out of the things, out of all of the 500 things that I want to do, you know,
01:38:31
Speaker
I'll do one thing tomorrow. And that's enough. That's up, man. Make to-do list, man. Get yourself whiteboards. I will recommend whiteboards to everyone. It's fantastic. Yeah. I essentially do that with my iPad. Yeah? Yeah. Have you ever made any big realizations on shrooms, Gara? Or acid? I don't think I've made any big realizations, no.
01:38:59
Speaker
I was boring, but honestly, part of the time, like half of the time, I'm just like anxious. And then I just have to sit there and be like, okay, you will get through it. Just like close your eyes, let the time pass and then like, you'll be fine. And then other times I'm just like giggling and vibing and laughing. Like I don't think I've ever like gotten to that existential place yet. I'm always there, man. That's crazy.
01:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, no, like the last time I did it, I was like, I mean, I felt that whole miserable thing too, but it was like a big moment where I was like, okay, I do, I have to maintain myself here. I have to maintain composure. And like just doing that, it was like, oh shit, I just did that. That was crazy. That was cool. That was like value in itself, I guess. Yeah.
01:39:50
Speaker
maybe have things like that and like talk about them in the moment or whatever and have these crazy realizations and conversations. But then as soon as I'm like clear headed, like none of it like sticks. I just feel like I forget at all. And I think it's also one of those things like, you know when, or like, you know, in like grade school when they would bring inspirational speakers and then they would like give these speeches and you would be like really motivated for like two days and then just like forget it all. I feel like it's like that.
Moving On and New Connections
01:40:18
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely had both happen where it's like, yeah, sometimes it like sticks and sometimes it doesn't. I guess like I want to ask about maybe for you, this was before your actual breakup, but like, did you have to like, did you ever have to let go of that feeling of, how do you deal with the feeling of like, oh, but that was just so special. That was just so nice. It was so good.
01:40:46
Speaker
whenever it was, at whatever point it was during the relationship. Maybe it wasn't even that during the end, but at some point it was. I feel like I struggle for a lot. I feel like I have come to terms with it a little bit, but I do find myself still struggling a lot, but that was just so good. How do you let that go, or have you let that go completely? I mean, that's hard.
01:41:19
Speaker
I definitely always or like continued to hold on and probably like still have days where I do hold on to that idea of like that relationship was so unique and it's not something I'm gonna be able to find anywhere else and now it's gone and I can't relive those moments anymore either and like oh
01:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely, or like that, now that's in the past and like, that's it. And it's not, I'm never gonna experience that again. I do still have days and moments where I'm like in that head space for sure. But I think that also, and this is maybe like, not again, not the most like the healthiest way to have gone about it, but it was my reality of like, I made a really strong, after my first really big breakup,
01:42:12
Speaker
then I ended up making a really strong connection with somebody else. And even right now, it feels so weird to kind of verbalize and say that out loud. But I think that was when I first kind of internalized the idea of maybe there's not just one sole partner for everybody in this world, because I definitely had that hopeless romantic view of everything beforehand.
01:42:40
Speaker
And I think truly what pulled me out of that mindset and stopped me from constantly mourning this idea that I would never have anything like that again was that I did hit it off with somebody else and built a really close relationship with somebody else and felt that same feeling of it being so special and so unique. And so, yeah, I kind of have a shitty
01:43:11
Speaker
Like maybe not the most ideal way to kind of realize those things or whatever, but yeah, being able to like realize that, oh, it did happen again kind of gave me hope and solace that like, yeah, that was unique. And this next experience was also unique in its own way and special in its own way. And so I might not have that exact same experience again, but I'll have new ones that I didn't have with those previous people.
01:43:42
Speaker
I don't think that's bad at all. I think there's a lot of value in what you did. In a certain sense, you don't know things until you experience them. How can you convince yourself of something if you don't experience it? So that makes sense. I see it as a positive. At least you are open to the idea of
01:44:08
Speaker
you're open to the idea of entering that relationship with, or like even getting that close to someone. I know that I'm gonna struggle with the idea of even opening, being open to that. Like I'm not even, so that's gonna prevent me more from feeling that. So, but I think that's a good thing. I think that's a great thing.
Coping Mechanisms Reconsidered
01:44:30
Speaker
Turning things back to the beginning, like immediately after, like now that you've had some distance, I guess,
01:44:38
Speaker
how do you feel like you coped with the breakup initially? And like how healthy do you feel like that was in retrospect? Like the sorts of things that you did? I feel like, I don't know. I feel like we should just separate those questions because like how you feel like, I don't know. I don't think there's any point in assigning a grade to what you did, right? Like I think there's value in all kinds of coping mechanisms. And like every one of them is,
01:45:05
Speaker
conservative purpose in a different situation, right? Yeah. Healthy is maybe like an unhealthy way of thinking about it. Yeah, maybe. Unhealthy. Yeah, that's fair. I just, yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm overreacting. No, no. I understand. I was honestly thinking that myself after I said it. That was not maybe the best way of ruining it.
01:45:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, but I mean, for me, like, I mean, I mentioned this, like the storm initially, but just like getting through that, I think I just had to develop this voice and kind of separate myself from my feelings.
Buddhist Concepts in Healing
01:45:48
Speaker
And so this is something where like, I don't know, I got some concepts that I learned through like,
01:45:55
Speaker
like just learning about like Buddhism a little bit. Just like the idea of separating yourself and, you know, realizing like, like telling yourself things like, hey, like I am the sky, I'm not the clouds, you know? Like when you're in that shit storm, like I am the ocean, not the waves, just like stuff like that. Separating yourself from your emotions. One thing I realized was cool, I heard that like,
01:46:24
Speaker
I mean, you've heard of this hypothesis of how the language you speak kind of determines the way you think. So in English, and this is very true for me, in English, you identify with the emotion. So you say, I am scared. That's how you say it. In Spanish, it's like yo tengo. I don't know. I'm bad at Spanish. But the translation is like, I feel fear. It's not that I am scared. I am fear. I feel it.
01:46:54
Speaker
In Tibetan, you say fear has arrived. It's just like completely you're separating the shit storm that's coming your way from yourself. And then you're able to just let it come, just accept it with grace. Let it come, understand it, give it the respect that it deserves, the attention that it needs, and then let it go. Whereas like I would just be too, before I would just be so caught up in it.
01:47:25
Speaker
that it was just a pit, like it was just an endless pit. So that helped. What else? Weed? Weed is great. I mean, it just let me just sometimes, it just, it let me organize my thoughts sometimes, but sometimes it just let me just focus on what was around me, you know, just like eating something or just like watching a movie or just like,
01:47:54
Speaker
And that was nice because it took me out of that. Yeah. I don't know. What do you have to say, Cara? No, that was all helpful and things that I kind of will definitely be thinking about more moving forward.
Therapy and Self-Discovery
01:48:17
Speaker
I think, well, like from the get go, it was definitely a combination of like,
01:48:26
Speaker
crying and distracting myself from work with work and like just making sure I was busy all the time and also yeah music and weed and all of those things those like classic coping strategies and I think it was very like it fluctuated a lot like some there was times where it was like
01:48:52
Speaker
I was just like keeping myself so busy and like distracting myself with things and then there was times where I was really moping and um I think what ended up being super helpful definitely part of it was um just good old therapy was super helpful plug for therapy I think um just like yeah talking to somebody about it all and like
01:49:16
Speaker
kind of helping, talking to somebody who could help me reflect on myself, and then also coming to the realization that in my, this is specifically, I first started doing this after my first relationship, but realizing that, reflecting on my mental health and kind of evaluating honestly the status of my mental health, and I came to realize that
01:49:45
Speaker
there was a lot of codependency towards the end of my relationship, from my end, just because I was not in the best place mentally. And so when I wasn't going to therapy and I didn't have any other coping mechanisms, so kind of having this person was my source of happiness. And so then when I kind of started having those realizations after going to therapy, then I kind of started figuring out what I could do about it to help fill some of those holes that made me so sad.
01:50:14
Speaker
like finding other things to do to be happy and like work on that was super helpful and like just making new friends and like going to events and just like trying new things that I wouldn't and like going to dinner by myself and going to movies by myself and things all that stuff and like truly doing that
01:50:38
Speaker
finding yourself portion of college a little bit, but just like actually by myself this time. And so I think that was super helpful. And also just like figuring out like my other like chronic things that I just like hadn't thought about and kind of really taking control back in my life and like
01:50:58
Speaker
figuring out like I figured out after that point that I have narcolepsy and so I was like always sleepy all the time in college and I didn't know why and I realized like and I finally took that time to like and gave it to myself to like figure out what is going on I was able to like make my every day so much better and that was just like the huge step and then from there it was kind of just
01:51:26
Speaker
I was starting 10 steps ahead after I kind of did all of those things or started all of those journeys or whatever, and then it was easier to cope and then easier to start processing properly after. After you realized you were a narc?
01:51:45
Speaker
Yeah, basically. Well, just like all this. I was like, I was like, you just went for it. And I was like, I feel bad about laughing now. I don't know what to do. Well, truly though, I just like wasn't sleeping all the time and that really helped. So, yeah, that's not a fix for everyone, but it was good for me.
01:52:15
Speaker
So what is it? Is it just like how do you deal with it? Like what is the solution? It's just like medication. Honestly, I just like don't fall asleep. But it was I think like the takeaway from that or what I was trying to say was like I actually spent time figuring out myself and like all because before all of my free time would go to like hanging out with this other person and I totally sidelined my own needs and then like when I was able to actually
01:52:41
Speaker
That in and of itself kind of got me a few steps into this whole coping thing when I was like, oh, let me give myself this attention and actually build a stable life as an individual. And doing those things and giving myself that time to figure that shit out was so helpful. That's so fair. There are so many things that were making me miserable all the time.
01:53:11
Speaker
You know, now I have space to actually figure it out. Like medical, I started physical therapy for my foot that it was, I banged up and I just never did it. Cause I never had time and I never wanted to take care of myself and now I'm doing it. Uh, and it's so valuable. Um, yeah. And just, you know, having the energy to self correct, like,
01:53:36
Speaker
you know all your negative self-talk and your destructive tendencies and yeah that's just I feel like I feel like such a I think I'm just learning how to live life which is so stupid like I feel like a baby I'm just okay this is how you do things it's like what like how did we not do this
01:54:02
Speaker
yet i i totally agree where i'm like you guys are just like doing this stuff by yourself this whole time like you're like what and yeah it's a good feeling when when you're like past the heart or like a little away from the like struggle part of doing those things yeah on the other side it's it's a good feeling lowkey my life right now even though i haven't gone through a breakup me realizing how to live like everyday life and feeling like i've done nothing
01:54:34
Speaker
Well, also I think part of it is like adulthood and like post-college adulthood. And that just like happened to line up with these things for us. It's a motivator too. I don't know for me what I think about this, but like, how do you, what do you think of the future, Garra? If you even think about it, like, are you, I don't know.
01:55:03
Speaker
Yeah. If I asked you, like, how are you, how do you feel about your future? What would you say? What would you say? That's so broad. Um, I would like, I'd say if I, to come up with a few words or whatever, I would say I'm scared. I'm excited. Um,
01:55:30
Speaker
I guess scared, but also anxious, yeah. Excited, like looking forward to all, like the different stages of life, for sure. Also just like, but then, yeah, also just like worried that I'm not making the right decisions or like that things won't go the way that I want them to go or whatever, but I don't know.
01:55:56
Speaker
It's not that I wouldn't I don't think I'd give you the same answer every day though. Also, but yeah I'm excited though to just to kind of see Like where things go and like who am I am as an adult little like a real, you know Yeah And any advice for people any advice No
01:56:27
Speaker
Yeah, I'm no authority on advice, just therapy is the only advice I have and everyone says it, but that's what I got. We need a five point plan for moving on past breakups. I guess I did have one more question, like a lot of similar lines for you guys, and I don't even know if there's really that much to talk about, but
01:56:52
Speaker
Do you guys feel like you're still coping with the breakup or do you feel like you're moving on? And do you even feel like there's a difference between those two things for you? I don't think coping is the word I would use anymore, but I do still think that it affects me. And I think there will always be little things that affect me from the breakup and just the relationships. So yeah, I don't think I'm coping anymore, but
01:57:22
Speaker
I'm also not now and probably not ever gonna just be 100% free of it. That's cool. Honestly, I don't know. I'd like to get there. I don't think I'm there where you're at right now. I feel like I'm still coping with it, definitely. Yeah, it's like... I don't know. I don't know how I feel right now about it, but it seems like until yesterday, I had to really show up every day,
01:57:53
Speaker
For a long time, my day would just, I would wake up and it should be confused. I'd just be like confused, like how I ended up here, just like spiraling. So I had to justify it every day. And then I had to convince myself to participate for a long time. And I think that lasted a few months. And then recently,
01:58:18
Speaker
I think recently it's been a process of just like trying to trick myself into not thinking about it sometimes. Because I feel like, I don't know, for me, I feel like my body still felt that something was wrong, even though mentally I can justify it was like, I feel like the body has a memory of its own. So it just feels confused. And sometimes I'll wake up in a daze. It's obvious my mind was going in circles in my sleep.
01:58:46
Speaker
just like, um, and, but I think the big thing there that helped was just like being able to take it in stride because at first it would just be very negative. Like, Oh, why are you doing that? Why are you thinking about that? I told you not to, like, I told you not to think about her, you know, like, but instead changing that to like, Oh, that makes sense. Your body's going to remember she's important to you. So your brain is going to try to,
01:59:17
Speaker
be like, oh, remember this person? Why is she not next to you? But yeah, but kind of just tricking it like, oh yes, I know that's terrible. Let's think about it later. Let's do this other thing right now. You know, like things like that, just taking it in stride. Sometimes I'll wake up and it's like, no, I need a day. I just, I can't do today. And I take, I just, if I'm working, I'll like work and then I'll cancel all my plans and I'll just order,
01:59:47
Speaker
order some Thai food from my favorite place here and just watch a movie and like that's it that's all I'll do so just like that kind of stuff I still do from time to time um yeah that's kind of where but recently like last couple weeks last few weeks like I feel like I'm getting more into just
02:00:12
Speaker
living my life instead of worrying about all these things. But there are still days where I do have to deal with all this stuff. Yeah. Is that is that a satisfying answer for you? Yes. 85 out of 100. That's a B.
02:00:34
Speaker
Two different perspectives. Give me a fucking B. You're too low, bro. You gotta be perfect, right? Oh, no. Stop. I think one thing I will say is to people listening, one thing I really had to ask myself was that helped me go forward was just, do you like yourself?
02:01:03
Speaker
Do you like yourself? Do you like the life that you're living? Do you like the way that you think? Is it serving you? Because I think you really do have to separate your brain, or I did. I had to separate my brain from myself because, I don't know, I had to realize your brain is a machine. It's complicated, but it's a machine. The way I like to think about it is that your consciousness is a layer above it.
02:01:31
Speaker
And your brain works by like pattern recognition and reinforcing things, patterns that you have, right? And it helps us get through life. That's why it does these things. But sometimes like these patterns hurt us. And so you have to like kind of sometimes show it that there's another way so that it can make that link and create that pattern. That's all.
02:01:55
Speaker
Also that shot of the, is that weed? That's a really good shot. No, it's my candle. Oh man. I would've been sick. Not interested in it anymore. Actually, yeah, it was weed, sorry, my bad. Oh man, I guess we're nearing the end, but. Gura, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I know this stuff is, yes.
02:02:24
Speaker
I know this stuff is like not easy to talk about. Really appreciate you joining and having these conversations with us. I think a lot of people, I know I've gotten a lot of value out of it, been able to just listening to the way that you've dealt with things and your experience has given me perspective on mine too. And I'm sure it will give a lot of other people a perspective too. So thank you.
02:02:56
Speaker
Hopefully we have another episode at some point. Well, I just want to also say thanks to you guys for like putting yourself out there genuinely and like doing this because I think it's a lot of things that people think about and feel like they're alone in thinking and feeling. And so it's super comforting, like somebody said.
02:03:16
Speaker
to know that it's not something that you're dealing with uniquely and that other people are also going through it and have gotten through it. And so, truly thanks for putting yourself out there like that and being vulnerable. Thanks for saying that. We appreciate it. That keeps us going, you know? Stuff like that keeps us going. Thank you both for being vulnerable and open about this.
02:03:43
Speaker
Can't imagine like how difficult it is. And yeah, I think it's, I mean, I know it's not something easy. Yeah. I just appreciate it a lot that you're both willing to be so good. All right. So this week's art picks of the, why is this so hard to say? It's so hard to, art of the episode. Art pick. No, you know what? We're not going to do of the, we're just going to say, what is your art pick? I think that sounds way cleaner. Yes.
02:04:11
Speaker
What is your art pick? Drop the episode. Yeah, it just doesn't work. So my art pick is The Song Candy Necklaces by Lana Del Rey.
02:04:27
Speaker
Like I was really like diehard Lana like back in like born to die era like really early on and I kind of like dropped out for a while for a while and by for a while I mean her entire career after that and I started listening to her again with her new album. Did you know there's a tunnel under ocean boulevard.
02:04:43
Speaker
And I've only listened to two songs from the album, but each song I've listened to is just like a pure work of genius in my opinion, and like some of my favorite songs ever. So the first time I, the first time I listened to was A&W, which is like genuinely my favorite song ever. And then, yeah, with Candy Necklaces, she's two for two. And I feel like
02:05:06
Speaker
I feel like I've almost been like, I have so much hype in my mind built up from these two songs I've been putting off listening to the album, but I just need to bite the bullet. I need to listen to a lot more. I've heard a few songs. I really like the songs that I've heard. So I need to get into it. I'll listen to the album too. That's a good album. Yeah.
02:05:26
Speaker
I don't know like a single artist who like depicts like trauma in like such a like open like vulnerable like insightful way where it's like I genuinely I feel like learn things about myself sometimes just like listening to like some of her music.
02:05:43
Speaker
That's like the beauty of art. Also, her music is just like good to, even if you don't listen to the lyrics, like it's by, like put headphones on, so it's the whole package. I'm also gonna do a song. So I heard this song again. I don't know if I've heard it before, but I heard it again when I watched Arrival again. This song is called On the Nature of Daylight. Oh shit, I should know who's by. One second.
02:06:14
Speaker
On the Nature of Daylight by Max Richter, Louisa Fuller, and a bunch of other people. I'm not going to list it out, but it's like an instrumental with a bunch of violins and stuff, but it's such an introspective song that it's just like you really feel like you're in a movie when it's playing.
02:06:39
Speaker
So I like play it sometimes. I'll play it in the shower. I'll play it while I'm on a walk. And it's just like, it helps me just come to terms with where I'm at. And so yeah, it's that song. If you haven't heard it, like, I think they use it in a lot of things, but yeah, listen to it. Yeah. I don't know if I've heard that song specifically, but if you want another like, uh,
02:07:04
Speaker
album of songs like that where they're very powerful instrumental songs that can almost take you on an emotional voyage. Listen to the Kundun soundtrack by Philip Glass. That's one of my favorite instrumental soundtracks ever. I have two. But one of them is truly my artist art pick. And one of them I feel like is just such a good song in the context of all the things that we've been talking about.
02:07:34
Speaker
to just listen and reflect and it has been so monumental for me. That song is Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell. If you haven't heard it, definitely listen to it. It's such a good perspective building.
02:07:52
Speaker
song and she wrote it when she was like in her 20s I think and it's just unbelievable so highly recommend um but my actual art pick is there's this artist called Lefafa um and the album is called Jago and it's just like
02:08:12
Speaker
vibe be daisy kind of inspired but also like trance type of music it is so good um highly right i love trance yeah we'll have to listen damn okay so wake up by envelope is that yes exactly fine that's a fun name that's a fun name cool um i guess that's it thank you guys peace bye
02:08:43
Speaker
If you're still listening, I know we talked a lot about what we figured out in our journeys throughout the call and how we've dealt with things, but I just wanna say that going through all this stuff is difficult. And there are moments, far more moments that I'm proud of honestly, where I feel weak and helpless, like I'm falling into an endless pit. So if you're in the bottom half of a wave or going through really shitty time, please, please give yourself grace. It's okay, you're not weak.
02:09:14
Speaker
You're not left behind. You're not insignificant. You have value. Please trust that the world will catch you and that you will catch yourself and allow yourself to be vulnerable around those you trust. And it's not like once you accept these things, it will be okay. It won't, but it will give you the strength to go through it, to feel it out, to be sad. Things will get better and then they will get worse.
02:09:44
Speaker
but then they get better again. And you will probably forget to give yourself grace when they do get worse. But then you remind yourself of all these things again and it will get easier. So peace and love and remember you're the sky not the storm.