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#190 - Cameron Capello
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Debut novelist and TikTok/Instagram content creator, Cameron Capello joins us this week to chat about her new book, how her TikTok followers inspired her to finish it and her favourite romance tropes.
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Transcript
The Role of Writing in Storytelling
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. I love it. Because the writing is sort of everything. You can fix plot holes, but if the writing... So some readers love that, and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of a gamble.
Introducing Cameron Capello and Her Novel
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to the Right and Wrong Podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by an Instagram and TikTok content creator, The Chamber of Secret Books, who has recently published her brand new debut novel, I'll Look for You Everywhere.
00:00:29
Speaker
It's Cameron Capello. Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Well, thanks so much for coming on. um Let's jump right in with the new book, your debut novel, I'll Look For You Everywhere. It's out right now. Tell us a little bit about the story.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll look for you everywhere is a, I like to describe it as an intoxicating love story set in Italy. It's between um a girl who comes home for her sister's wedding.
00:01:03
Speaker
And lo and behold, her best friend's older brother, who hasn't come home in seven years, also is there for the wedding. And obviously, seven years, lots of things change. So immediately, there's ah an attraction between one another. But obviously, there are secrets that are keeping them apart. And will it destroy their relationship? I don't know. I guess you have to read it.
00:01:31
Speaker
So that is my summary. We'll have to
Exploring Themes and Tropes in the Novel
00:01:35
Speaker
find out. Yes. So, I mean, you're on TikTok. like What are, if you were to list the kind of main romance tropes, what are the main tropes in this? Okay. Main tropes, definitely best friends or their brother.
00:01:50
Speaker
um forbidden romance. um What else? What else? Oh, there's a wound cleaning trope in here because like i my roots go to fantasy romance.
00:02:06
Speaker
so um Like even though it didn't like logistically make sense to do like this whole wound cleaning like it was Outlander, I was like, no, I need to have it somewhere. So that's definitely in there. And um yeah, there's just a lot of angst, a lot of tension. But yeah, I would say those are the main three tropes.
00:02:30
Speaker
Okay, okay, cool. um It's always good to know because like one of the, especially in like romance, specifically as a genre, now a huge part of the marketing and especially on social media is like like saying what the tropes are because people nowadays will buy books based on the tropes, which I guess it's it's a cool thing to do, a cool way to do things.
From Personal Project to Published Work
00:02:48
Speaker
But um let's go back to the kind of conception of this story. How long have you been working on this? When did you first start writing? I'll look for you everywhere.
00:02:58
Speaker
So I started writing it back in 2020. So it took me three years to like finally get it done. I always say this, but this story was never meant for anyone's eyes but mine. like it If I had started it before TikTok and it was just something to sort of do um because it was COVID during college, I was bored and I was like trying to process my own emotions. So it did candidly start off as almost a fan fiction of sorts for myself.
00:03:36
Speaker
And then it evolved into something completely different, and I am no longer ah associated with the main character. But um yeah, so three years in total, which is so incredibly long when I talk to other debut authors who take two months to write a book.
00:04:00
Speaker
I mean, it's that there's a huge range. I mean, two months is incredibly fast to write a novel. I think most authors I know, like the average will be around a year potentially more, but I know people who have written, who have been writing novels, like one novel for like 20 years and then finally got that novel published. So there is a huge variance. Equally, i've I've spoken to authors who have written a novel in like two weeks.
00:04:25
Speaker
so Like that's insane. Yeah. Yeah. yeah It's like ah you need to go outside. um
00:04:33
Speaker
Am I right in thinking that, so obviously you'd written this before TikTok, but you have built like a big TikTok following. Am I right in thinking that you posted ex excerpts of the novel onto TikTok to kind of, I don't know, was that to like get some kind of ah feedback on it or was it more just like you wanted to see, you know, how people would react to it?
00:04:55
Speaker
So I originally on TikTok was just posting these like 30 second, I call them daydreams or um yeah, they're they're just daydreams that I had on my notes app. ah And that's how that started. And then when more people were viewing my TikToks, they were asking for something like longer. And if I was writing anything, um in my in my spare time and I was very hesitant at first to to bring it up because, the like I said before, the content that I was making on TikTok, it is was focused on
00:05:39
Speaker
fantasy romance. So this was completely different. So I just decided, yeah, at first like test it out, see how people are responding to it. If this Italian summer contemporary romance is something that my audience who I know loves.
00:05:56
Speaker
like a battle scene if they would like it. And they did because everyone's so sweet. And yes, I just kept posting more excerpts and then it got me excited to like keep writing and it motivated me definitely to finish it up and give, you know, share it with the people who are the reason why I finished it in the first place. Wow. I mean,
00:06:25
Speaker
It's scary enough as a writer to kind of show your writing to like, on like a personal level to like a few friends or family or or other writers.
Navigating Public Feedback and Writing Methods
00:06:35
Speaker
The idea that you're kind of sending this out to, and you have hundreds of thousands of followers that you're sending it out to all these people who you don't know.
00:06:45
Speaker
Terrifying. And was it scary, you know, once you put that out and you'll you'll presumably see notifications of like you've people have commented on it. Was it a scary thing to jump into those comments to see what people were saying? By far, it was the most scary videos I've ever posted on TikTok. um It's very like vulnerable to um share your writing. Before I posted on TikTok, absolutely no one had ever read anything I've written. So then to immediately jump into that was
00:07:18
Speaker
was bonkers. um But I have been blessed with such a nice community of readers who were just so generous and so forgiving. I had my God, the amount of ah Spelling errors that were there that I did not see that now I look back on like no one said anything They just let me be so it just yeah, it was so it was such a positive experience that it I Just kept going with it. Yeah, but definitely scary at first Yeah, it sounds like that kind of the the feedback you got from it the positivity as you say is It sounds like that's part of the reason that this novel actually like got over the line and that you did kind of find the drive to finish it
00:08:05
Speaker
100 percent because you have no idea if you're a good writer. Like I just had no concept if what I was doing was like even like worth being published at all. So then to receive that like confirmation from them ah was so it was like life changing. Yeah, it was great. who So you mentioned that you've been working you'd been working on the novel for some years. Was it sort of written in pieces or did you have like a plan and you were working through it chronologically? So there was no plan and now as I write my second novel there is a plan because the way I was writing was so chaotic. um It was basically just
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, like a ah stream of consciousness, like whatever felt natural to to write next, I would write it. So it did happen chronologically. um And then sometimes I would immediately like get an idea for a scene. So I would write that and then figure out later where I would stick it in. But yeah, for the most part, it was chronologically and um Yeah, it was it was really based off my my time in Italy and, you know, spending somewhere with my family in Kibasso and Alassio, which is actually where I am currently. So I was just so inspired by this, like, lovely, beautiful place. And it was like, this is the perfect setting for a romance novel. Like, it's just dripping in in romance. Like, and why is no one writing it? So I was like, I'll write it.
00:09:51
Speaker
Okay. and And then it just all kind of unfolded and and grew out of that sort of one idea. That's cool. um And I would have guessed that you were already working on something new. Is it going from like, chaotically just kind of writing and making it up as you go? is it Does it feel like a very different process? Is it a bit more calm, having a plan, having everything mapped out?
00:10:14
Speaker
Yes and no. I don't know if I do well with ah with ah like a schedule. um I don't know. There's something it feels like inhibiting. If I if i already have it planned out, I'm like, damn, like what if I don't want to do this, even though I wrote it? So i it's it's strange. I think it helps with the overall plot, like the arc, um to know Cause like when I first wrote all the three everywhere, like I did not know how it was going to end either. So writing this book, it is nice to, to have thought that through and it makes the other like important scenes. um
00:11:01
Speaker
i i I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like it it relates better to to the ending. like I'm able to find my way to the end much clearer than I was for, I'll look for you everywhere.
Character Evolution and Story Development
00:11:14
Speaker
um That being said, I definitely sometimes go off the rails and just completely miss the mark of what was in the schedule. um Cause I'm like, this feels right. I'm very much a like a mood writer. Uh, so I'm like, no, this, like we need this scene now. Like this has to happen. So it's a mixture of both. And I'm just, I'm happy with it. Yeah.
00:11:41
Speaker
that's I mean, it's about finding the balance, right? It's about finding what works for you. And I think especially with sometimes, um and I've spoken to lots of authors who similar kind of approach to this and and and they'll say, yeah yeah, I'll do a plan, but I'm so willing to like go off the plan. And it's like, maybe that means I have to, you know, make some deviations and I'll come back to the plan. But Sometimes you kind of learn what a character would do and it's and it's so obvious that the character wouldn't do what you'd originally planned them to do, that you just can't, you know, you have to go off course at that point. Exactly. That's a very, very perfect way to put it. So changing your course a little bit here, I wanted to ask about your agent who is ah Lauren, is it Spiele?
Securing a Book Deal Without an Agent
00:12:29
Speaker
Is that your pronounce it? Yeah.
00:12:31
Speaker
at Folio Literary. Did you go on submission with your novel or was it a situation where Lauren reached out to you? So it's pretty unconventional what happened, but actually um my editor from Pan Macmillan is the first person to reach out to me and wanted to, yeah, wanted to read the book.
00:12:55
Speaker
And it was so serendipitous because I happened to be in London for three days and that's exactly when she reached out to me. So we met for coffee and it was crazy. And then I sent her some pages. She was like, I'm very into this. I'm going to send this to my team. And then they put it in offer. So at that point I did not have an agent. Um, I was just free balling it. I had no idea what I was doing. Um,
00:13:25
Speaker
So then luckily, ah because of TikTok, I have other author friends. And what I was explaining, actually, I was on her podcast, her name is Betty. And she wrote a book called One Last Shot. It's also an Italian summer romance. And I was telling her, oh, this is the, you know, this is what happened. And she's like,
00:13:51
Speaker
girl, you cannot go in without an agent. And I was like, Oh, okay, like, I want her to be independent. And she's like, no, no, no, no. So she connected me with her agent, who is Lauren. And I told Lauren this situation, I was like, sorry, this is so urgent and weird. But this is what's happening. And she was so lovely, so kind, and immediately took over. And I am forever indebted to her because She really saved me. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of like legal mumbo jumbo and like contract stuff, which is, you know, the agents are obviously there to like handle that for you, but it would be a lot to learn if you were trying to do it by yourself.
00:14:35
Speaker
I don't know who I thought I was. Yeah. But um yeah, she definitely did handle it because there were so many like things in the contract that I was like, what is that? Is that English? And she was like, yeah, it it is. um So yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
Okay well that's some good advice from you from your friend there as well. So am I right in thinking then you're in Italy at the moment but you you live in the US most of the time but the deal was made in London.
00:15:08
Speaker
So I moved to Italy. When did I move? In October. Yeah. I was originally based in... Oh, okay. Welcome to Europe. Yes. Love it here. I was originally based in New York, but we decided to make the move. I'm very grateful that I grew up in New York, but I definitely needed to change And I guess I was kind of inspired by my own book. I was like, why aren't I living their lives? So let me try um because my whole family is Italian. So I am very lucky that the citizenship process was relatively easy for me because I already had the dual citizenship. um So, yeah, that now I'm here. Okay. So the book deal started with UK-based Pam McMillan. and but your Is your agent in the US? Yeah. Okay. So you're really low already running an international operation here. Yeah. Okay. Does it cause any like hiccups, like being in a different country from the publisher and your agent?
00:16:25
Speaker
No, I actually love it because then I have an excuse to go to London um because like I was just in London a few weeks ago. And yeah, when anyone asked me, he's like, I have to go for work if you don't understand. And so I love it. OK, that sounds good.
00:16:46
Speaker
But for my agent, no, i don't I don't have to go to the U.S. When the book is published in the U.S., maybe I'll have to go more, but I love traveling, so I kind of just use it as an excuse to see places.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, from from the US, it's like a much bigger trip to go to another country when you're like in Italy, when you're in Europe, it's really like two hours, three hours to basically anywhere else in Europe. It's glorious. I love it.
Publishing Challenges and Editorial Collaboration
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um so So before the book was published, I'm going to guess, you did you know much about publishing or how the industry works?
00:17:29
Speaker
not a singular thing. I had no idea. so was it Was there any parts of the kind of process that that was like particularly surprising or like challenging that you weren't expecting?
00:17:43
Speaker
um so i guess i One, didn't realize how long everything takes. um yeah And that can be frustrating because you have people like messaging you every day and like like, when's your book coming out? When's your book coming out? And it's like sitting ready you know on your laptop and you you can't do anything because there's so many people involved in the publishing process.
00:18:12
Speaker
um So that was one thing. Second thing is how much fun making the cover was, like being a part of that process. um I definitely didn't make it, but being able to send my like inspiration photos. We were ah sharing Pinterest boards, me and my editor, Kinza. So it was a very like collaborative process to make the cover. And I'm so happy with how it turned out. So that was fun.
00:18:42
Speaker
And yeah, I'm trying to think. I still don't know a lot about publishing. I kind of. I'm glad you got an agent. Yeah, no, literally. Because I know I'm a bit of like, I don't want to know anything with like the most important things in life. So that's an issue of mine. And I need to work on that. and How did you find going through like the editorial parts? Cause that can be like ah a painful process for some people. Oh, thank you. Yes. That was the third thing I wanted to say. Um, it was.
00:19:26
Speaker
so much longer than what I had thought. So I sent her my original manuscript, and then she came back with her round of edits. And then from there, I go in with my edits to her edits, and then I send it. And then she edits that again. And then so there's like five versions of I'll Look For You Everywhere floating in the ether. um And I know some authors don't love revising, but i I really did enjoy the process. One, because it took less thinking power from me and you know I was just like making small corrections, but also it was so nice to see how someone else sees the characters. So I always thought of writing as a solitary thing, but, you know,
00:20:23
Speaker
being with my editor and seeing how her mind works and my mind works together was incredible. And she really, really like made it into the book that it is. So this time around, writing my new book, I'm definitely more open to getting people's opinions um because you you need it. you know It's such an important part of writing a book, I think, is sharing it with others. yeah And having an outside perspective can be so like useful to just when when you're often too close to something and you need someone who's further away to say like, oh, you this thing doesn't make sense. But in your head, it made sense because you have other knowledge that they don't have.
00:21:10
Speaker
So. Yeah. Yeah. no I mean, when it's great when and when an author and an editor to really click, when they're really on that same wavelength, that editorial process shouldn't be like grating. It should be like a good process where you're both feeling good about this book is heading in a better direction than it was before. A hundred percent. Yeah. And that's how I felt the entire time. So.
00:21:30
Speaker
Amazing.
Future Writing Aspirations
00:21:31
Speaker
I just got a couple more questions before we head over to the desert island. That is, um I've um looked at your TikTok, I've looked at your Instagram stuff. So from all of that, what you're writing, what you're reading, it's safe to say you very much live in the romance space. um Would you, in terms of like future writing or things like that, would you ever try some crossovers into like other genres?
00:21:59
Speaker
That's a great question. I think romance will always be a subplot. Frankly, I can't write without romance. you know like I'm like, what's the point of this? um So I don't think there's a world in which I cannot write romance. That being said, I would love to experiment with you know fantasy. um I like historical fiction a lot.
00:22:27
Speaker
so Yeah, I would say like also horror, you know, I think a horror romance is kind of fun. So I've heard that's, that's on the way up at the moment horror romance. Well, I better get writing. Okay, great. But yeah, definitely open.
00:22:47
Speaker
It's always going to be romance, but like, yeah, that you're kind of like taking a look at other genres as like crossover kind of things. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So and we are about the time in the episode where I will um ask you, Cameron, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:23:08
Speaker
Okay. If I was stranded, it would have to be, call me by your name, by Andre Aciman. I think I've never read something so beautiful before. And every time I reread it, there's a new sentence or a new idea that I didn't pick up the last 400 times I read it. So I think that's really special. And yeah, I think I would never get bored with that book.
00:23:38
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's it's a very powerful book. How many times do you think you've read it? You have an estimate.
Desert Island Book Choice
00:23:44
Speaker
oh Maybe five or six times. That's pretty good. And and also healthy. Many more it would be almost unhealthy. but yeah des um I love to ask people who like really love a specific book about adaptations. there' ah the Is that the movie with Timothee Chalamet? Yes. As someone who loves the book, how do you feel about the movie?
00:24:09
Speaker
I think Timothee Chalamet embodied Elio to a T. Am I as happy with Armie Hammer? No. o why um I think the director, Luca, I don't know how to say his last name, ah gu Guard. I'm going to butcher it.
00:24:32
Speaker
But the director of Call Me By Your Name really understood the vision. So it's got to be one of my top favorite adaptations. That and Normal People. Oh, wow. Yeah. those They're so good. Well, that's a stunning review from someone who is an avid fan of the the novel. so Have you not seen it? I've not seen it. No, I've not seen it.
00:24:55
Speaker
ah You know what, I'm always paranoid about any adaptation of anything because sometimes I'll watch one and I'm like, you ruined it. yeah I hate it. Oh, 100%. I wish I'd never seen this. The Artemis Fowl is like the book of my childhood and I was so excited for them to do a movie of it and it like killed me and started watching that abomination. That's me with the Shadowhunters, like that whole universe. um That was, yeah, that was that was bad. Well, they tried the movie for that too. They tried everything. Yeah. yeah They try again it just never. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe in like a few years time, they'll try again. What's everyone's forgotten about those things. Yeah. you know um Anyway, call me wearing a
Closing Remarks and Social Media Promotions
00:25:40
Speaker
great choice. Uh, it is, it is a a classic, um, and, uh, and thumbs up to the adaptation. Maybe I will check it out. Maybe I will there to check out the adaptation for that one. Definitely. um
00:25:51
Speaker
Next up, I'd love to chat about TikTok and building an an online audience and um also one of your favorite things to talk about romance tropes, but that will be in the extended episode exclusive to my awesome Patreon subscribers.
00:26:06
Speaker
um The real social faux pas. Yeah, exactly. Okay, amazing. um Well, that was fun to chat about and also really great chatting with you um about the book. Very exciting, the debut. It's out now. I'll look for you everywhere in all the usual places. um Thank you so much for coming on the podcast camera. It's been so cool chatting with you, hearing all about your experiences with writing and publishing um and and a little bit about romance tropes at the end there. ah Yeah, it's been great.
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much. This was so much fun. And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Cameron is doing and see what she's doing, ah whether the filtered version on Instagram or the unfiltered version on TikTok, you can follow her on TikTok at Chamber of Secret Books and on Instagram at TheChamberOfSecretBooks. To support this podcast, like, follow, and subscribe. Join the Patreon for extended ad-free episodes. And for more trope discussions, check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and other tropes. Thanks again to Cameron and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.