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#229 - Faith Hogan
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Contemporary fiction author, Faith Hogan joins us this week to chat about her career as novelist, her process and writing crime fiction as Geraldine Hogan.
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Transcript
The Importance of a Writer's Presence
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. love it. Because the writing is sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer is there. So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
Introduction to Jamie's Podcast with Faith Hogan
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by a best-selling contemporary fiction and crime fiction writer, Faith Hogan, or Geraldine Hogan when she's writing crime.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello, welcome. Hello. How are you, Jamie? It's lovely to be here. I'm great, thank you. How are you? I'm super. Sun is shining. Always good on a Wednesday. We're speaking on a Wednesday morning. i don't know when this is going to grow, up but yeah, it's a lovely day here. So yeah, back from a swim. Happy out.
00:00:44
Speaker
Oh, very nice. A morning swim.
Faith Hogan's Upcoming Novel Release
00:00:46
Speaker
um And we are about a week away from your new novel coming out, The Women at Ocean's End, which is out on the 5th of June.
00:01:00
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about it. It's exciting times. And so it's always it's a funny time. So it is running up to a publication day because it it never gets old and you never get any more kind of nervous or excited or it's just a mix of things. and And this year is kind of a special one because I have and the new book is called The Women at Ocean's End.
00:01:21
Speaker
ah Normally, the last five or six novels I've written have been based in a fictional village called Belly Cove, just off the northwest coast of Mayo here. A small island that I've built together from little the nicest bits along the north Mayo coast.
00:01:37
Speaker
But this time we have set sail out into the Atlantic. And we are visiting an island called Pinhill Island. It's loosely based on Achill Island, which was um readers or viewers or listeners will know as the location of the Banishes of Inishirn.
00:01:55
Speaker
Ah, okay. Yeah, okay. So a really inspiring place to to to to set a novel, you know.
Setting and Themes of 'The Women at Ocean's End'
00:02:02
Speaker
um And this the novel itself is about, it was meant to be about three women, but it turned out to be about four women.
00:02:09
Speaker
It was, then it started off as a germ of an idea with, you know, The idea that two people who could be best friends, and that that friendship could, I suppose, it maybe not last a lifetime because it doesn't really last a lifetime, but that it might influence their lives going forward.
00:02:28
Speaker
At the center of the story is an event that takes place in childhood. Constance Macken and Dottie Wren are best friends. and I suppose they're more like sisters.
00:02:40
Speaker
and when they were children. um And when it came to putting oneself in danger in front of the other, Constance didn't think twice. But um I suppose saving Dottie proved to be the ruination of their friendship, it turned out,
00:02:53
Speaker
um The story is uplifting. It's about relationships. It's about ups and downs. Sometimes there are secrets. Sometimes there are lies. and But ultimately, all of my stories give hope.
00:03:04
Speaker
Let me think now. What else can I tell you about it without giving away any spoilers? That's the tricky part.
Character Exploration and Novel's Hopeful Essence
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, there are three so there are three women. Constance Mackin, who was in her 90s and who was looking back in a life with a one large regret.
00:03:20
Speaker
An event that happened in her childhood, an unexpected, tragic and one might say surprising event that happened in her childhood. And it tied her to her best friend, Dorothy Wren for life.
00:03:32
Speaker
As we open the book, Dorothy has just passed away and her daughter is left with a job of carrying out her final witch, which was to be buried on Pinhill Island.
00:03:43
Speaker
And she contacts Constance and asks if she can come and stay. Constance lives in a dilapidated Art Deco mansion, crumbling into into the Atlantic Ocean one brick at a time.
00:03:56
Speaker
and And she has one friend on the island, a very close friend who she's recently made. Roz. Roz is a younger character. She has been ruthless for quite a long time and has found home on the island, except that all of a sudden it looks like she might lose her home, lose her job and have to m start again.
00:04:15
Speaker
And I suppose the story follows the journey of the three women from there. Much of it it is about Constance finding redemption and peace near the end of her life, about Roz finding a home and creating something that's lasting forever.
00:04:28
Speaker
And for Heather, Heather has left behind divorce, a sold business. Her flat, somebody else is now pinning their notes to her court in her old flat. And so for her, it's a new start.
00:04:41
Speaker
And the film goes on. The film, I was going to say, it's not a film quite yet. and But ah the book goes on from there. And I suppose like all my books, i it's an uplifting read. There is tragedy, there is sadness, there are lies, there are secrets, but ultimately it's an uplifting book. And I think readers i think it's what readers need at the moment is a little bit of and joy and happiness in our lives.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yes, I can attest to needing that. yeah um The core, there's ah it's a sort of very multifaceted, multilayered, serious kind of human issues. But I think, did you mention that your goal is to always have hope in your novels? So all of your novels, even though you cover, you know, real life struggles, you do try to bring it home with an uplifting um curve, no matter what.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think, Jamie, I think that's I think at the moment, people who buy my books and people who read my books, they opened the books, the covers of a Feth Hogan novel and they want to escape. You know, and we're all i think we're all inundated with them terrible, terrible things on our news feeds at the moment.
00:05:46
Speaker
And while um the story has a secret at the centre of it, and it's been kept for about 70 years and it it has weaved thread through the lives of the women involved. And and one of their lives, it has not been a happy life.
00:05:58
Speaker
um And the other has seen tragedy and and and sadness as well. but But Constance is at heart an upbeat person. And so she brings the story along and her sense of optimism shines throughout the novel, I think, and kindness.
00:06:13
Speaker
And I suppose the story itself is a story of letting go and it's a reaching out and forgiving and forgetting. It's a story about friendship and a finding home. And maybe, yeah, finding home before it's just too late. Yep, that's it. yeah In a nutshell. In a very long nutshell. Yeah.
Faith Hogan's Writing Journey and Empathy
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's so interesting because obviously a lot of novels, um especially a contemporary fiction novel like this, you talk about a lot of the time it's about a character character sort of learning about themselves and finding themselves and finding kind of different truths within the novel.
00:06:46
Speaker
Do you as a writer, when you write something like this, do you kind of discover things about yourself? Do you do you feel like you unlock levels of empathy within yourself when you are writing fictional characters, learning these kinds of things?
00:07:00
Speaker
and I think, well, each of my characters, when I start to write, has a voice distinctly their own. okay and They don't always do what I want them to do. Sometimes they do other things. And I think from that you learn.
00:07:12
Speaker
You know, and I think we bring we bring a lot of learning from around us into every book. Every every book I write certainly is influenced by by by by kind of the life I'm living at the moment or kind of what's happening around me, the people, sometimes people that are in the news, sometimes people that are right on my doorstep.
00:07:28
Speaker
But yeah, and I think i think so. The whole process, I think, is a learning process. But and yeah, for like when I set out to write the book, I really, really wanted to write a book about redemption and about um somebody having it within their power to learn lessons that were difficult to learn, but that in the learning of them, they make so much more right than they expected.
00:07:51
Speaker
You know, I think we can all learn from that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And this is, am I thinking that this is your 11th novel published under Faith Hogan?
00:08:04
Speaker
That's right. Yeah, I know. It's hard to believe it. yeah yeah Number 11. I know I said that to somebody recently and said, my goodness. But yeah, number 11. And that's not counting the crime fiction under Geraldine Hogan.
00:08:16
Speaker
That's right. I wrote two crime fiction novels and published with Bukature. um i They came out in 2018, 2019. I haven't had time to go back to those and I know readers are expecting a sequel, a third one.
00:08:29
Speaker
um I do regularly still get emails m six years later, but m It's been busy, you know. I do a book a year. Some years I've brought out two books. and COVID was a time, I think, when everybody had time to do a little bit more writing. So years like that, there have been, and you know, that there have been, say, a book kind of two books every 18 months type thing.
00:08:48
Speaker
So it's, um my first book was only published in 2016. So if you think about it, that sort of, and yeah. So I have an idea for something that is, yeah, kind of darker.
00:09:01
Speaker
um I just have to get the time to write it. Yes. Yes. This is the problem yeah many authors have. um And you mentioned your first book. yeah That was My Husband's Wives.
00:09:12
Speaker
That's right. Yeah. Came out in 2016. Yeah. if we I wonder if if you can cast your mind back to when you were writing that novel. how, you know, 10 books later or 12 books later, do you feel like your, the way that you approach the writing, the way you kind of, um, the way you kind of plan everything out, map things out, has that changed much since your first novel?
00:09:37
Speaker
m I don't know if it's changed very much. i don't tend to do a lot of planning, which is, you know, bold me. um But am I certainly, my like my the place my mind is at when I sit down to write a novel has very much changed. m My husband's wives was, I had written crime novels before my husband's wives and I had never attempted or thought I would ever attempt anything other than a crime novel because I didn't really read anything other than crime novels, not in like years and years and years.
00:10:07
Speaker
And so it is my agent who suggested um she she would kind of be a doy on, shall we say, of the um of the of the more kind of literary fiction, contemporary and popular fiction and genre. And she she suggested, you know, that maybe maybe my voice might lend itself to to something different.
00:10:29
Speaker
So when I sat down and wrote my husband's wives, it was more of an exercise in seeing if I could actually do it. and And very much it was written in an armchair, which I mean, I enjoyed the process.
00:10:42
Speaker
ah It was a very different process to writing the crime, which I sat at a desk and I planned and I plotted and I wondered how would I fix this and how would I sort that and how would I fool people into believing. and But actually... and the I would say that the women's fiction novel, My Husband's Wives, came straight from my heart and it just flowed onto the page.
00:11:00
Speaker
And it was a very, very different experience to write it. So while I still write in the same way, i still write women's fiction in that way. I have an over i have an idea of what the overarching plot will be. It'll be...
00:11:14
Speaker
you know It could be redemption, but I mean, it is it each one is different. but But at the same time, and how I actually write those novels, the mechanics of it hasn't changed.
00:11:26
Speaker
It's just I think that and i i probably I think I have grown as a writer and I've become more confident in my voice as a writer. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You've kind of locked it down more.
00:11:38
Speaker
Um, yeah you mentioned that you don't plan, ah how often do you find whilst you do have a sort of loose idea of where the story is going to go? You mentioned also that your characters often do things you don't want them to do or don't expect them to do.
00:11:52
Speaker
How often does if afraid do you start writing something thinking it's going in a certain direction and then it actually goes in a totally different direction? Yeah, I had a conversation about this about a week ago and I tend to have a hardback notebook or three on the desk at the same time as I'm writing a novel.
00:12:09
Speaker
And um I'd be writing notes on it. You know, I might start off kind of with a vague idea of who everybody is. And if I I've looked back sometimes and and so I will write the first draft and it's very much ah off we go. Here we go.
Creative Freedom: Planning vs. Pantsing in Writing
00:12:21
Speaker
This is great.
00:12:22
Speaker
And And then I get to the end of it and I think, oh, Lord, what have I written? And yeah, no, there is there's ah there's there's a sense of that. You know, my agent will say, have you got anything to show me?
00:12:33
Speaker
And I'll be, i I'm not sure. but um and so I start again and I and I will write a second draft. And in that draft, I suppose there is a lot more. um There's a lot of tightening up. There's a lot of sort of sorting out, straightening out and sort of maybe reining in some of the characters and doing the mad things that they might want to do.
00:12:51
Speaker
and But when I look back at that first book, that first hardback copy or notebook that I would have jotted down like as I went along, just sort of, you know, you'd be walking through a room and something's into it and just write something down, gosh, that'll be handy.
00:13:05
Speaker
But the novels are completely different by the end of it. So while, you know, you say you don't really plot, you don't really so much, but they do somehow or another grow organically from beginning to end over the course of of one hardback book.
00:13:20
Speaker
they have become something completely different from when you start out. So, yeah. So I don't know, does that answer your question? But it's kind of the process. Yeah. It's as near as I get to planning now at this stage. Yeah.
00:13:31
Speaker
Yeah, I get that. I mean, because I've talked about this before, where in some ways, the planning and the pantsing, like it's not as so far removed as people often talk about it. i always think of it more as like, well, if you don't plan it, you most of the time, that means that people do a kind of messy first draft, and then you do a clean second draft.
00:13:51
Speaker
And like, the first draft is kind of your plan. Yeah, I think that's it. I think I've often thought about planning and panstering as kind like spectrum. yeah Yeah, yeah. But you're you're like you're on that spectrum somewhere.
00:14:04
Speaker
but But the question is, how far to the left or the right of it are you? There's no good or bad. There's no up or down. There's no yes, there's no better or worse. But you're somewhere along that spectrum as writer.
00:14:15
Speaker
And um yeah, I think i I tend to be more on the um And the panstering side of it, I try to tell myself that makes me more creative, but of course it doesn't. It just it just it just means that you write in your own way, you know.
00:14:28
Speaker
That's kind of what it means, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So when you are writing something, when you're sort of conceptualizing something, or I guess when you're just in the middle of... pantsing and you're just going a certain way. now that you've, you have so many novels published, are you ever sort of worried about, um, accidentally retreading something that you had covered in like a previous story?
00:14:51
Speaker
Um, I'm very lucky. I have good editors. I have a moment of a fantastic editor. Yeah. And she'll kind of pull you back and say, well, do you know, do you really want to go there again? And you won't have, like, I won't necessarily have realized that I'm like replaying a similar thing. But I think, you know, when you read, like i read a lot and and then, of course, obviously I've written quite a bit. and And I suppose it's it's natural enough for stuff to get regurgitated and you forget about the fact that you've actually seen it somewhere else. You know, something comes into here and think, oh that's a great idea.
00:15:21
Speaker
And off we go. and And sometimes that that can happen where something comes up. But then it's it's always, I hope it's always spotted, but I think it is always spotted because I've been really lucky with my editors. And as I said, my editor at the moment is is fantastic. So and she's very on the ball. And when you write, you do kind of come to the point where it's wooden trees.
00:15:41
Speaker
You know, you you can't see the wood for the trees, there comes a point where you just, you don't know what you've written really. and You don't know if it's any good, if it's, you know, you you might be kind of semi-aware there's a beginning, a middle and an end to it. But beyond that, it's kind of hard too. You get kind of lost in it, you know. So, yeah, i think I think you do need that critical set of eyes and, you know, him lots of diplomacy to tell you actually, you know, you haven't written the next Ulysses, but this will be fine.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I understand what you, the, yeah. Can't see the wood for the trees kind of, I get that you you get so close to something sometimes and you need, like you said, you need a great editor to say, yeah take a step back, you know, let's have a look at this and we can see maybe a different light here.
00:16:26
Speaker
Um, when it comes to the process of writing, you said you, on average, you're kind of writing a novel a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. Is there of that process? Is there like a favorite part of writing a story that you have?
00:16:40
Speaker
Oh, the beginning every time. I could start a novel every single day of the week. It's just that lovely sense of the blank page. It's the idea that you're just starting out, that there's a whole new world to be created. And and and you don't know. i so so i So as I said earlier, down I've bet i based and four, five, maybe six novels in a village called Bally Cove. And sometimes you'll be starting out and I'll see somebody across the road and I'll say, whoa, there's Helen from the Guest House by the Sea.
00:17:09
Speaker
And she'll stop for a chat. and And you have that kind of freedom on the page. Whereas as you go and through the novel, you know that kind of it's closing in on you and you have to sort of um you have to sort of see the character through to the end. So in some way or another, I have to make sure that things turn out, you know, as well as they might for them. some They don't always turn out happy ever after now, but that they turn out as they're meant to turn out for people so that they have, um I suppose that they're at least on the step of something that is um
00:17:44
Speaker
meaningful to the character and will be meaningful I think to the reader too at some point. Although I have to say the reader probably comes pretty far down the list I'm thinking about. I'm going to sort things out at the end. But see yeah, yeah,
Challenges in Writing and Publication
00:17:55
Speaker
that's it. Yeah.
00:17:56
Speaker
Okay. So the beginning very much the sort of excitement of like everything's possible. We can go anywhere with this. That's your favorite part. That's, oh, that's, oh, by far in a way, my part. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:07
Speaker
And then I guess on the other end of of that, what, is there a part that you find the most challenging, the bit where you kind of often find yourself slowing down and you really just have to kind of focus to get through it?
00:18:19
Speaker
and As I race towards the end, I can go very fast. OK, you know, because because I know that there are things there are things that I have to do that, you know, um there may be somebody in so in jeopardy. There may be a situation that's kind of coming to a head.
00:18:34
Speaker
And I will often lose track of time. And i will I will stand up from the chair and or but move away from my desk, maybe because the phone rings or I have to go and collect somebody from school or something like that. And and I literally be my heart should be racing.
00:18:50
Speaker
my My body will be like, if I've just, you know, run a marathon, I'm just, I'm wrecked. And I've just been sitting in a chair. But I think it's the whole, and it's your imagination has carried you away to somebody else.
00:19:03
Speaker
And you're there with people and it's just your adrenaline is flowing. And that can be an uncomfortable enough situation because you don't want to leave it. And at the same time, you think, oh, can I bear another second of it?
00:19:16
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I get that. Yeah. but That sounds like you're writing high intensity scenes. I think with me, it's more often that I just make myself sad writing a sad scene. no.
00:19:28
Speaker
Oh no. there There are some things i can't, I can't, um, that, you know, even the crime books, there are some things that are just, yeah, I can't, no, too sad. I can't. I just can't.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. The answer the question, I guess, was there isn't really a part, it sounds like once you get going on a story, just gathering speed and momentum throughout until you get to the the story. Oh, I have saggy middles as well. Okay. Everybody has saggy middles, they get there and you're just as like, suddenly your speed has gone and you are, it's like you're in the middle of, you're walking up a mountain you're in the middle of the marshest field you can imagine. And you're thinking, oh my goodness, I have this summit to reach and, and, and will I ever get there? But, and but you do. And you just, and I think that's the thing I think that I've said to people who want to know how to write a novel. It's that you have to keep on putting one foot in front of the other or one finger in front of the other on the keypad, because there are days when it's hard.
00:20:28
Speaker
you know, there are days when people really don't want to do what you want them to do. They just want to sit there like you do and read a book. And that's not very interesting for a reader to read about, unfortunately.
00:20:40
Speaker
and Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah So I think the other bit that I find how difficult is this run up to publication because it feels like it's out of my hands and it is all in the hands of the gods. And I've done everything that I can do, but I really want the books to me.
00:20:59
Speaker
or I should say maybe not hate. I don't really want to hit any reader over the head of them. But I do want them to fall into the hands of the right readers. I want them to fall into the hands of readers who will enjoy them and readers who will take something from them and readers for whom they will make a difference.
00:21:14
Speaker
And that at this point in time is completely out of my hands. And that's kind of, that would be the other, i think, challenging part of being a writer would be this kind of week or two just in the lead up to publication date. Because no matter how much you know this on a logical level,
00:21:28
Speaker
And it still is there, you know? So yeah, yeah. They, they would be the, yeah, they would be the two, they would be the two things. and go Oh God, it's like a middle. but Okay. Yeah. So it's the middle and then the run up to publication, even, even on, you know, this is your, the 13th time you've done this now.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yes. You still kind of, uh, worried about, you know, how the book's going land things. Yeah, I think you always do. I think I think I think everybody I think I think you wouldn't be human if you didn't.
00:21:56
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? It's um it's such a it's such a big event in that.
Faith Hogan's Personal Reflections
00:22:01
Speaker
I mean, it's a blip compared to other things that are happening in the world. I mean, it's not. But but but you have like I have lived with this book, say, for a year um and other people have been involved in it. I mean, people that I i have never met have chosen the cover for it and they've done a fantastic job and I want to put my arms around them.
00:22:17
Speaker
But but they have moved on. And I'm still sitting. No, do you know what i mean? They're creating fantastic covers for somebody else now. And, and they'll probably notice it when it's out on the shelves and say, oh yeah, i did a good job there.
00:22:28
Speaker
and But am I hope they say that. But yeah. And I suppose, I suppose for me, I suppose it's like, it's, it's, I don't want to say baby, but it is something that's like, I've spent a lot of time thinking about and working on and it's been in my head for a long time, you know?
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of, yeah, to me, it's important. As I say, it's a blip compared to things that are happening in the world at the moment. I mean, I know, perspective. But and yeah, yeah, I probably always will be. And I think even writers who who are at this game a long, long time, and they still feel that on on publication day, that while yeah, it's it's inconsequential in the greater scheme of things. You know, when you when you turn on your news at nighttime, it's really inconsequential. But yeah, you can't help but feel that you are very invested in it. Yeah.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to pick this up after we go to the desert island because that there was some a bit more on that that I wanted to talk about. But we're at the point in the episode where I am going to pack up all your things and ship you off with nothing to be stranded on a desert island and ask you, Faith, if you were stranded on a desert island with nothing but a single book, which book do you hope that it would be? What would I bring with me?
00:23:40
Speaker
I think, i like it's a tough one. That is a really, really hard one. If I asked my daughter, like, what which book would she bring? I think she'd have a meltdown. and So I'm making my way through the Bronte sisters at the moment and I'm really loving that. and I'm making my way through them in order of publication. I found this thing on YouTube and somebody did it that when and I thought, oh gosh, I must do that.
00:24:00
Speaker
Because we didn't really, i think i think I read Jane Eyre at school, but that about it. And I loved Jane Eyre and I'd be very tempted to say I'd bring Jane Eyre with me. Because that, I mean, I could go back to that again again again.
00:24:10
Speaker
I mean, I probably should say i I bring something that will teach me how to make a boat, but that would be much too practical for me anyway. um But I think I suppose the one book that I read years ago that really made a lasting impression was Ivanhoe by Walter Scott.
00:24:24
Speaker
And it's an old book. It's like it was written in the eighteen hundreds but and And I suppose it it was swashbuckling before I really knew that you know swashbuckling was my thing. and but But it's also a romance.
00:24:37
Speaker
It's a great love story. um And I think I haven't had the time to read it in years. But yeah, if I had time, I think it's one of those books I'd love to sit down and read. And I think I could read it again and again and again. I enjoyed it so much the first time I read it, you know?
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, probably Ivanhoe. Yeah. I like to, yeah, it's nice to hear about the stories that sort of brought people into a certain genre or a certain sphere of storytelling.
00:25:01
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose, look back, I suppose everybody, I suppose we all kind of, most of us probably went on the same journey as in you know, started off with the famous fives and secret sevens and worked her way up to the old Agatha Christie's and so on. But yeah, that would have been one that really made a huge, huge, huge impact on me. Yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
yeah Okay, cool. Yeah, that's great to hear.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:25:19
Speaker
Next up, I'm going to continue on with what we were just talking about, but ah we're also going to talk a bit about what Faith likes to read and um some more sort of publishing bits.
00:25:28
Speaker
That will all be in the extended episode available at patreon.com slash right and wrong. Yeah. Great voice. Tough medicine, but there you go.
00:25:40
Speaker
And that brings us to the, to the end of the episode. So thank you so much, and Faith, for coming on and chatting with me and telling me all about everything that's going on with, with, with you. And, and of course the, the new novel, The Women at the Ocean's End out 5th of June. It's been so fun chatting with you.
00:25:56
Speaker
Oh, it's been lovely to talk to you, Jamie. Thanks so much for having me. It's been an absolute joy. Yes, it has. And for anyone listening, if you would like to keep up with what Faith is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Ger Hogan. That's G-E-R Hogan on Instagram and Facebook at Faith Hogan Author. Or you can head over to her website, faithhogan.com, where you can find links to...
00:26:19
Speaker
all of the above and everything else and to do with faith. To support the podcast, like, follow, and subscribe, join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:26:30
Speaker
Thanks again, Faith, and thanks to everyone listening. we will catch you on the next episode.