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#217 - Liza DeBlock
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Literary agent, Liza DeBlock joins us this week to tell us about how she got into publishing and literary agency, what she is looking for in authors to add to her list and something to do with horrifying unicorns in Scotland.
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Transcript
The Art of Plot and Introduction to Liza de Blanc
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, a spicy question. love it. Because the writing is sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. ah Today i am joined by one of the booksellers, 2022 Rising Stars, a literary agent with Mushin's Entertainment. It's Liza de Blanc. Hello.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hi, how are you doing? I'm very well, thank you. How are you? Good. My ah my voice is a bit rough after a day at the London Book Fair, so please bear with me today. Yeah, we'll try and take it easy, not not do any like shouting or chanting. Awesome, sounds good. um Let's start things off with a bit about about you and and your and you know how you started your career in publishing.
Liza's Journey into Publishing
00:00:53
Speaker
ah Was working with books and literature, was that something yeah you've you've always wanted to do? um Deep down, yes. um But I actually started out in academia and I was actually i came over to St. Andrews to do a postgrad degree and I went really meta. And I was looking at the history of publishing, the development of the written word, kind of communication, how how books developed kind of as an object, as a ah part of society.
00:01:24
Speaker
Um, and I was doing that. And I think in my heart of hearts, I really wanted to be in publishing, but was a little bit scared to give it a go and give it a shot.
00:01:34
Speaker
um so I remember I actually had, i was doing a PhD at the time and I had my like first year review. And afterwards I kind of had like a moment of realization where I said, you know what? I i don't want to be in academia. i actually want to try publishing.
00:01:51
Speaker
Um, so I was getting on a train, my family was visiting and we were going from Scotland to London. And the entire time i just opened my laptop and I Googled, how do you get into publishing?
00:02:05
Speaker
and then basically just made like a list of different places and different ways that I could try to start going for internships, going for jobs, just kind of something to actually try to break into the industry.
00:02:17
Speaker
um and that, that kind of really got me started from there on out. Oh, okay. And am I right in thinking your first job in publishing was in as a scout?
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. um So I did a few internships, one of which was in scouting. And I had no clue what a scout was before, like learning about them on the SYP jobs board.
00:02:45
Speaker
And i found them so fascinating. And I really liked doing the Frankfurt Book Fair scheduling for Mayor Trenchard Literary School. That's where did my internship with. And then I was applying for jobs and I got my first job at Eccles Fisher Associates.
00:03:03
Speaker
And i assisted there for roughly eight or nine months. um And it was really fun because I i loved seeing the whole industry through the lens of scouting and you get to know who the best editors are, the best agents are, the best books are, and then you help sell those books internationally. And that's something that I've always been very passionate about.
00:03:28
Speaker
um So I started out in scouting and then i kind of realized that I actually wanted to work more with the books rather than reporting on them. I really liked working with authors and helping change the trajectory of a book from editorial stage to sales, to publishing, international sales.
Navigating Foreign Rights and Literary Agency
00:03:51
Speaker
So I made the jump from there over then to um what's now become Mushin's Entertainment. Okay. And that was as Juliet's assistant. Yeah. So I originally started working when it was Caskey Mushins for Robert Caskey and Juliet Mushins.
00:04:09
Speaker
um And so I started out as their assistant at the very end, I think, of 2018. um And then the next year I just watched as Julia did an incredible job kind of signing. That was the year that she signed Richard Osman, Abigail Dean, um a slew of all of her incredible authors.
00:04:34
Speaker
And I had a front row seat to seeing how she worked her magic and worked so hard um and just kind of really started to get going. And then I was lucky enough to start working with those foreign rights and selling those internationally on her behalf and the author's behalf.
00:04:54
Speaker
And everything has just kind of snowballed in a really wonderful way um since then. Yeah. is's was Foreign rights, it that seems like a natural thing to do off the back of having experience as a scout.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. And with scouting, like I said, you get such a good idea at what international clients are looking for, whether that's people in China or in Germany or Brazil, like anywhere across the world.
00:05:26
Speaker
So when I was um reading for Juliet or Robert at the time, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, oh, like, I know somebody in Germany who would actually really like this.
00:05:37
Speaker
um And I was always thinking on a much broader spectrum of how to then obviously take a book that's been sold in the yeah UK or the US and then launch it and give it the biggest, best life possible kind of across the world. and so scouting really gives you that great mindset of the international rights kind of level. um And then going to work at a place where I had such incredible books,
00:06:03
Speaker
to send all over the world was just incredible. Yeah. is I see on um when you look at like an agency, obviously there's people whose, their main job is foreign rights.
00:06:21
Speaker
Is that something that it's sort of too big to do as well as being a literary agent, or is it something that you can kind of do both of, or do you kind of grab them to assist you when you're doing the foreign rights stuff? um It really depends on the size of the agency um and kind of what's possible as it grows.
00:06:42
Speaker
So there's some very large agencies where foreign rights is a completely separate department to the main agents. um And then there are some smaller agencies where the primary agent will sell their own rights internationally. And there's like every varying degree in between.
00:07:02
Speaker
Um, so what I was doing was, um, I took, I kind of started building up the foreign rights and selling Juliet's books. And then as we had more agents come in, i was selling their books, but then Juliet, um, Juliet knew that I really wanted to acquire some of my own authors too.
00:07:23
Speaker
So I started kind of organically building them up alongside all of the rights that I was selling. And it it was, it's something that I think could have only happened the way that it did while at Mushin's Entertainment, because there was flexibility and Juliet was really curious at seeing how things went and was had, I mean, she still has just absolute faith and kind of my ability to find books, sell them, whether they're her books or my own or anybody else's. So it really just depends on how big the agency is what kind of a situation you have.
00:08:02
Speaker
um But I know people who just work foreign rights and I know people who are just agents. um And it is really busy trying to do both. and So i I came back from my maternity leave um and i was at a point with my list where the decision was then made that it might be good to start just focusing on my clients and building that list and kind of start stepping away from foreign rights.
00:08:30
Speaker
So we now have two two great people in our foreign rights team, Alba and Katrina, and they sell everything. But it's i like coming from that background for me. It means that when I'm reading a submission, I'm thinking, OK, can I sell this in the UK? But where else in the world do I want to go and sell this? Because the markets are so different, right? And it's about kind of just understanding what that market wants.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, i was um I was at the London Book Fair yesterday, and i was pitching a romantic to somebody, um i think from a Scandinavian territory. And I was like, okay, so there are vampires and witches in it. And she just goes, no, my country doesn't like witches. It's it's just a thing.
00:09:14
Speaker
But we really love werewolves. Do you have anything with werewolves? And it's just, it's so fascinating because each country has their own, like their own reading kind of list of things that they really look for.
00:09:30
Speaker
so um like Italy might hate thrillers, but they absolutely love historical fiction or... um china might love a really good non-fiction memoir but hate romanticy it's a like it's it's very fascinating figuring out um what what fits with different readerships across the world and then when you find a book that kind of transcends all of the readerships that that's those are just like the magical books overall okay right that's a yeah that's so interesting because i'd always thought
00:10:06
Speaker
It's interesting that they can be so specific on like something like, oh, we don't like witches, but we like werewolves. Cause I always thought it was, it was like, I thought it was like a minor thing where i was like, I understand the one that gets talked about lot. Cause you know, this is an English speaking country. And yeah so a lot of things, the first look is the U
Signing Authors: Criteria and Challenges
00:10:23
Speaker
S and I understand a lot of the sort of traditional English humor, the way that that's, that doesn't translate to an American audience.
00:10:32
Speaker
So that's kind of how minor I thought it was. i didn't realize it was whole just like, no, actually, we don't like dragons here. but you have Yeah, it's I remember when i was um I was first in scouting and I was doing like a book report on, I forget what book it was.
00:10:48
Speaker
But I was reading it and I was like, it's a really cute book, but like there are a lot of cats involved. So I don't really know how well this is going to do. And my boss goes, no, no, no, The Germans love cats right now. Send it to our German client.
00:11:00
Speaker
And it's so it's really it's just like really small idiosyncrasies that. that um apply to different countries. And they so it's so fascinating. um but But that's just like the fun part of figuring out a readership um and and finding good books that they'll love.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah. And because you've been in that space, when you're reading a query or submission, you're kind of thinking like, oh, this would do well in that place. And this could this actually could work in that place.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah. So I, whenever I read a submission, I always think, um, do I love it and can I sell it? Because it doesn't make sense if I take on a client and I can't sell their book because ultimately that's what the client wants. They want to be published.
00:11:48
Speaker
Um, so I have to think, do I love it? Can I sell it? And then beyond that, I start thinking, okay, what's the like best life that I can get for this book? Are there different markets that I really think this will work in beyond the UK and the US?
00:12:03
Speaker
Um, because that ultimately benefits the author the most, it broadens their readership. Um, it can get them wonderful advances and change their lives. I, I mean, I've seen authors whose books have sold for very little in the UK, go and a massive deal in Germany and become a bestseller over there. And the money that they get can absolutely transform their lives. Like they can buy a house, they can send their kids to good schools. Like it's, it's incredible to see how much foreign rights really can transform, um, an author's career overnight. Yeah.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah. And from what I've heard, Germany is a massive market for for books and just reading. Yeah. So I think the like the biggest markets are that we sell for are the the US, just because ah North America has such a huge readership by population.
00:12:57
Speaker
And then beyond that, the people that have the highest population that then read on in a large country are Germany. or germany So Germany is really big. um But then also France, Spain, Italy is really great.
00:13:13
Speaker
um China, a book can do very well there as well. um So we're always looking for kind of those really big markets of what will work for there. um But then um as you sell a book every once in a while, you'll get kind of like one Scandinavian country to buy a book and then like the rest of them all topple. So if you so if you sell in the Netherlands, you know that you're going to get like Denmark, like Finland, Sweden. You'll get like the sensibilities are kind of similar.
00:13:46
Speaker
And also kind of like um in over in Eastern Europe, like if Romania app buys it, then you know that all of the sudden there's going be like a huge influx of like other countries around there that say, oh, yeah, we really want it too. That's so interesting. Yeah, it's it's really it's really fascinating.
00:14:04
Speaker
I always joke that it's kind of like um Eurovision um voting where – where um everybody kind of has similar sensibilities in a region and they all go for kind of like the same songs.
00:14:18
Speaker
um It's very similar with books. um If you, if something does really well in Poland, um then the countries around it will also love it. um It's yeah, it's honestly, I think somebody should write a PhD on like Eurovision, like song voting, but also kind of like book sales in certain regions too, and how they correlate Yeah.
00:14:40
Speaker
It's not something I thought about before, but yeah, I guess, yeah, when when you explain it, it sort of makes sense and in that, yeah, sort of neighboring countries but are more likely to have similar sensibilities. Yeah. And what they're interested in.
00:14:52
Speaker
Darling it back quickly, just going back to when you were, when you were Juliet's assistant, um I just wanted to ask because obviously that's quite a common way that people become agents is that they work as an assistant for an agency or for a person and then over time they start making their own list.
00:15:08
Speaker
Was it, when you took that job, when you, when you started the role, was it always understood that you were going to at some point start building your own list? um Yeah, and I think, I mean, when people hire assistants for agency roles, you they ah part of the role is you're doing a lot of reading.
00:15:26
Speaker
You're doing a lot of comments on work ah um for existing authors. You're helping read submissions, and you're learning why books sell and why they don't sell and how the market functions. So you're learning how to become an agent.
00:15:42
Speaker
um And so i really I expressed as well that I loved books and I love selling books. um And I deep down, like always wanted to become an agent.
00:15:54
Speaker
um And so she was always open to that. um But i kind of took a really good, fun sidetrack into foreign rights because um that's kind of what was needed at the time. But my background in scouting meant that I was so interested in it.
00:16:10
Speaker
Um, and I mean, one of, one of my post-grad degrees is on the development of international copyright, um, between the U S and the UK before there was a copyright treaty.
00:16:20
Speaker
Like that's how geeky I was about international rights. Um, and so, yeah, I started out as an assistant knowing that that's what I wanted to do. Um, but with somehow with foreign rights involved and that's how the position grew.
00:16:36
Speaker
Okay. I mean, it seems like foreign rights, if you have the like knowledge base for it, is' just a great asset to have as ah as a literary agent. Yeah, it it is. And it ah it ultimately helps your author and your clients the most because, like I said, it gives the book the biggest, best life that it can possibly have.
00:16:56
Speaker
And those two, you mentioned earlier, when you're looking at a book, you kind of think about two main things and that's, do I love it? Can I sell it? Does it have to tick both boxes for you to say yes to it? um It really should. And i will, I will say that I will never, like, I will never sign a book that I think, oh, I can just sell it.
00:17:19
Speaker
Um, because ultimately that does a disservice to the client because you're this book's biggest cheerleader the entire time. And you also sign up a client to work with them like for their career. It's not just a flash in pan and then you're done.
From Foreign Rights to Full-Time Agenting
00:17:36
Speaker
Um, I signed somebody because I love their work. I want to watch them evolve and keep growing. So I always look for something that I, that I love and that I can play with and tweak and change and help the author develop.
00:17:51
Speaker
Um, but I do have to sell it. I have signed a book before and an author that I absolutely love. And I was like, I have no clue how I'm going sell this, but I'm going to figure it out.
00:18:06
Speaker
Um, I did, and I sold it and it still remains one of my favorite books to this day. and okay and, but it's one of those things where I have to love it overall.
00:18:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Okay. Okay. But you were, it sounds like at some point you were worried there that you had signed something that you you weren't going to be able to sell. Yeah. I was like, well, I, I loved it so much and the author can write so well. And so i was thinking she can write this well.
00:18:36
Speaker
i will sell something for her at some point in time. i just want to work with her and get to that point. Um, so we worked on the book, we got it to a point and then we, we did sell it. And, um But yeah, I was like, I just, I love this so much. I i want to work with this person.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, the the hope is that if you love it that much, other people are going to like it that much too. You know, it's going to have that effect on more than just you. Yeah, taste is so subjective in this industry. and I find that when when I read something that hits so hard, I just want somebody else to have that emotion as well and to walk away from a book feeling like they want to talk about Mm-hmm.
00:19:22
Speaker
And so that's why when I, when I read books and I get that feeling, i know that if that triggers that emotion in me, that I will do everything to find an editor that that also does that too.
00:19:34
Speaker
um and, and that's how I know kind of readers will eventually love it too. Yeah. Yeah. How many, don't know if you remember this, but how many authors did you have signed when you moved from, when you moved out of the assistant position?
00:19:53
Speaker
Oh God. Um, I would have to look that up. Um, I think it was, um, sorry, when, when I was an assistant, um, As in like, so when you, when you, at the point when you stopped being an assistant, how many had you signed like during that period?
00:20:09
Speaker
so i So I actually went from being an assistant to i'm being the foreign rights executive, I believe was the title change.
00:20:21
Speaker
So I actually shifted from yeah being the assistant to just basically doing a bunch of the foreign rights. And building up the foreign rights. And then once that was in a really good solid state, I started signing clients while I was running foreign rights. And then, oh okay yeah. And and then i think I think I was running foreign rights for probably about...
00:20:46
Speaker
two or three years and then um and then had my first kid and then came back for mat leave. And it made sense to kind of use that as the transition out um to just do agenting. and i think i probably I think I probably had about 10 clients at that moment in time.
00:21:06
Speaker
Um, and I sold a bunch of projects and those 10 clients also included people that I was about to, um, sell as well. Um, so I was able to kind of come back from maternity leave and hit the ground running.
00:21:22
Speaker
oh yes, I think it was, I think it was about, about that number. Okay. Right. So it was, it was still a small kind of number but when you actually sort of moved into full-time being an agent.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, but on the eighth it sorry nothing the authors that had sold, um I was really happy with their deals. They were really fantastic. And they were all people um who are still writing. And i'm i've been working with to kind of keep their wonderful careers going. And it was something where it just looked great.
00:21:54
Speaker
it looked like they were all going to keep progressing and having a great time. So the projection was that kind of my list would keep growing and I would sign more people, um, and just, yeah, kind of keep going from there.
00:22:07
Speaker
Yeah. so that was a while ago now, roughly, I wait i won't press you for the exact number. How many authors do you represent now? God. Um,
00:22:20
Speaker
I would say a few more than that. Um, I, one of the things that I'm very lucky about is that, um, I'm able to kind of be very picky and choosy about who I get to take on.
00:22:33
Speaker
So i like I said, I only try to take on books that I absolutely love and I i know that I can sell and do the best job for. um so I think I've signed only a couple more clients since then.
00:22:47
Speaker
oh okay And, but all of, all of the books are either out on submission or going out on submission. And I'm, I'm really excited about all of them and and can't wait. And i'm I'm basically you're, I'm recording with you, but then I'm also sneakily looking at my work phone, waiting for a deal, hopefully to come through for an author.
00:23:09
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it's, it's a few, but I really want to, I really want to take on clients in a way where I can do the best job for them continuously. um so I'd rather not kind of just amass and amass a bunch of authors. I want to do the best job for everybody that I have already. Yeah. Keeping it bespoke.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, um because I always I always want the author to authors to feel like I'm in their back pocket and I'm the best person rooting for them and that we're a team.
00:23:42
Speaker
And I want to make sure that I I can do that um for everybody and not be kind of inundated with too many things. Yeah, I mean, I've spoken to a couple of agents who yeah have a similar approach. It's to it's about keep making it more like sustainable and making sure that every author gets the time and attention they need. Because at certain point, it's ebbs and flows working with an author as an agent, right? Sometimes you'll have a lot of contact with them. Other times you'll have no contact with them.
00:24:10
Speaker
And then if they are you know if their career is on the way up, if they're like... getting deals pretty like, um, regularly, uh, you're going to spend, you know, you're, they're going to need less and less of your attention at that time. Cause probably they'll be spending more time talking to editors.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, but um I definitely understand that. and but also at the same time, and'm and I'm always monitoring people who are on their second book contract, too, to make sure that they're happy and that I'm always here for them to be able to just like pick up the phone and be like, I need help plotting a murder. Or where i I'm thinking about this new recipe for a cookbook. um What do you think of this?
00:24:54
Speaker
Because I want to make sure that they're happy and they feel like they're progressing and that I'm there every step of the way to help. yeah So i love being involved um in in all of that as well.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's the part of being an agent that people don't tell you is that like you're part therapist kind of as well. you're there as an agent to make sure that everything runs as smoothly as possible.
00:25:21
Speaker
yeah um And whether that's giving good news, bad news, everything in between, um'm you have to do it in a way that each author is going to feel respected and heard and understood um and advocated for.
00:25:38
Speaker
So that, that does take a lot of, um, a lot of thinking. Um, but that's something that I, I love because I just, I love working with people. Yeah. um so we've kind of talked a bit around it, but let's talk about the the list itself.
00:25:54
Speaker
Um, starting with, uh, what, um, genres, styles, uh, and authors, uh, do you represent and that you are looking forward for to, to add to your list? who and I mean, I, so I represent everything from fantasy to cookery to thrillers to speculative um and all the fun stuff in between.
00:26:18
Speaker
So on the fiction front, Um, I always say that I'm looking for books that make my heart
Genre Interests and Market Trends
00:26:26
Speaker
sing. and I know that's not a really good kind of thorough description, but I'm, I'm looking for books where the writing is absolutely beautiful.
00:26:36
Speaker
And it's in that beautiful place between kind of commercial and up market where you're, you're drawn into the narrative. I love a tightly, um, a tightly, plotted book. I do love pace.
00:26:49
Speaker
Um, and I want a journey that makes me feel like I'm in the character's brain and I'm along for the ride. Um, and so you can see that in my author, Karis Green.
00:27:00
Speaker
She just published a published book called always on my mind. And she writes where, um, the two main characters have a ah chip implant where they can hear each other's thoughts constantly. So you're literally stuck in each other's minds.
00:27:14
Speaker
Um, but I, I, so I'm looking for kind of that and thrillers is where you're in you're basically locked in a very intense situation. um and then but i'm trying to think, what else do I represent?
00:27:28
Speaker
So I've got thrillers. Um, I love anything speculative. as well. I love unique settings.
00:27:40
Speaker
So umm one of the very first books that I signed and sold is called The Moon Represents My Heart by author Pim Wang Di Chowet. And that premise is it's an intergenerational story of a family of British Chinese time travelers.
00:27:58
Speaker
And it has that really fun speculative element of the time travel. But you also have a beautiful story about a family, family dynamics and relationships. so that for me combines the beautiful, fascinating speculative elements. But it also is a story that cuts right to the heart of everyday human emotions.
00:28:20
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So speculative bits, I love them. and On the fantasy side, i always say that I'm less kind of like swords and dragons and more kind of like...
00:28:34
Speaker
fairies, werewolves and vampires, if that makes sense. Yeah. So more romanticy than epic fantasy. Yeah. and I, I will dabble ah in epic fantasy so long as there's a really good kind of human story or a relationship story involved.
00:28:52
Speaker
and But ultimately I love something that's really grounded um And I'm currently on the hunt for more kind of Celtic mythology.
00:29:03
Speaker
i would absolutely die for something spooky set in Scotland with like demonic selkies or mermaids or like, like a horror based like unicorn story, like something, something fun like that.
00:29:18
Speaker
um And so that's what I'm kind of really looking for in that area at this moment in time. and I'm like, what else do I have? And then on the um the nonfiction side, um i really love cookery and food writing.
00:29:38
Speaker
So i represent um a female chef named Sally Abbey. um She has a great fiction, sorry, a great nonfiction memoir that's come out called a Woman's Places in the Kitchen.
00:29:51
Speaker
And she's basically telling her story of what it's like to be a woman working in a very male-dominated environment. And it's, it's very harrowing, but it's really funny at the same time.
00:30:04
Speaker
And I'm looking in that sense for kind of memoirs that flip a space that we think we know upside down and on its head. So i i want kind of people to go in and rethink what we know and reassess and show change that either needs to happen or should be happening or that they're already kind of putting in place.
00:30:27
Speaker
um right And then I've also just sold um a cookbook that was announced and it's called Upside Down ah upside down Cooking with ah by dominmin Dominic Franks. um And it's just really easy, practical, wonderful recipes that's um about cooking food literally upside down in one pan and making it look ah like a beautiful tart.
00:30:54
Speaker
Um, so as, as a mom with a kid, who's just like running around half the time before dinner, really easy kind of cooking things that are delicious and nutritious are what I'm looking for.
00:31:07
Speaker
So if anybody wants me to, anybody wants to write a really good cookbook for me again, I'm, I'm really happy to take a look. Um, when it comes to nonfiction, because I've spoken to a few agents about nonfiction, do you find, well, first of all, what's the kind of split?
00:31:24
Speaker
Like how much of your list is fiction versus nonfiction? I would say right now it's probably 40% nonfiction and 60% fiction.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah. and the nonfiction authors, were those all through queries to you or did you reach out to some of them? Um, I would say it's about 50, 50. Um, and nonfiction is nonfiction is fun because if you dream up an idea for a book, you can then go and find the person to write it.
00:31:56
Speaker
Um, but then you also see what content creators are doing or what academics are putting out there, um or just what anybody else is kind of putting out there into the world. And you say, okay, how could I make that a book?
00:32:09
Speaker
And then more importantly, does that person actually want to make it a book? um So it's it's really fun approaching people with an idea and going from idea to finished copy.
00:32:21
Speaker
Yes, i they're not really the same fiction and nonfiction in terms of like that, the whole process of like querying, submitting and also like the creation of it. But just while we're on what you do represent, I went on the website, looked at the things that you have a no, I do not, this is not right for me. yeah ah So you don't represent sci-fi. And what I imagine based on the fact that you said you do like speculative, this is like hard sci-fi. Yeah. um So sci-fi, I find that I love watching sci-fi on TV or a movie rather than reading it a little bit.
00:32:57
Speaker
Um, but that being said, there's always rules that are meant to be broken. So if anybody could write me like a new Battlestar Galactica in the vein of like Sarah J. Moss, I would happily take, happily take that on.
00:33:14
Speaker
Um, but kind of really hardcore, um, uh, sci-fi. It's just not my cup of tea. Yes. Okay. Yeah, i understand. Um, you also had horror on there, which and I assume you mean like very traditional horror because you mentioned horror unicorns.
00:33:31
Speaker
yeah I think, I think what we're seeing now actually is, um, horror and kind of like horror elements are starting to seep into different genres.
00:33:42
Speaker
yeah Um, so listen, I'm a baby when it comes to like slasher movies or like jump scares, like something like that. And it's really bad in books for me as well.
00:33:53
Speaker
But I really kind of like the psychological horror of something kind of just behind your shoulder or in your head, um, or kind of like body horror. So, I mean, it might sound weird, but I think Our Wives Under the Sea is a slight body horror book. It's just a very beautiful literary book package around it because you literally have somebody turning basically into water and a sea creature.
00:34:21
Speaker
Yeah. And so I think kind of hardcore horror, i'm listen I'm a baby. I just can't do it. But I love to see kind of like the spookier elements seeping into different genres.
00:34:34
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. and I mean, that that to me seems very popular across the board the combining of genres. And, you know, obviously Richard Osman, the cozy crime genre has really taken off.
00:34:47
Speaker
Travis Baldry's cozy fantasy has become its own kind of thing now. And like there's horror romance is like becoming really popular. I've spoken to few people that have been talking about that.
00:34:58
Speaker
It's just, which is cool. Like I love this, this kind of new phase we're in where it's see what different genres you can combine now, because everyone is so familiar with the tropes of a genre. You can quite freely kind of combine two of them and people will understand most of the things they need to know.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like readers are way more open to the combining of genres now. um And I think it's great because it means that there is a blending of readership. So, I mean, you have people with romanticcy that would never have picked up a fantasy book before in their life, starting to dabble in it.
00:35:34
Speaker
And then kind of going more hardcore into the fantasy genre, but also kind of like cozy crime as well. You have people who sometimes wouldn't pick up ah a crime thriller with like a huge body count, but then they read Richard Osmond and they're like oh, this is so funny and so great. Mm-hmm.
00:35:51
Speaker
But there are big body counts in those books. um And you have people more willing to explore. and I think that's that's the best thing about the mashup of genres that we're seeing.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah. The romantic thing is I'm so aware I've spoken to a lot of people and seen it the pipeline of people going from romance into romantic and then ending up at Brandon's Anderson is just mind blowing.
00:36:18
Speaker
it There's like, I think there's been this thing on like Instagram or Tik TOK where like all of a sudden you see like all of like the boyfriends getting into like Sarah Jane Moss and they're like, I'm hardcore fantasy readers. And then they're just like debating like,
00:36:32
Speaker
the merits of Tamlin versus like other characters and such like that. And I'm like, I'm really into this. Thank you guys. Thank you. yeah It's nice that
Writing, Reading Habits, and Personal Preferences
00:36:43
Speaker
the, yeah. Crossing these genres has really like, like you say, blended a lot of readerships together.
00:36:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um Before we head over to the desert island, a question I love to ask um agents is, do you write yourself and would you have any designs on publishing a book or books one day?
00:37:06
Speaker
think kind of... I think everybody in this industry like writes in their own way. That being said, like, I remember writing as like a teenage girl and I hope those never see the light of day.
00:37:18
Speaker
And like, I love writing, just being fun and creative. But I also realized that I think I'm just not, I'm not that great at it. So I love helping other people write more than writing my own stuff. um But I, I, I will always be there to support and applaud anybody who has written their own book.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yes. like I mean, it's a great achievement just to have written the book and finished. Oh yeah. It's a great achievement. um Okay. So it sounds like probably not, but the door is slightly open, you know, never say never.
00:37:51
Speaker
Who knows? One day. let's see what happens, but probably not. Yeah. um Awesome. So we're at the point in the episode where I um ship you off on a boat and say, Liza, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:38:10
Speaker
i would, I'm going to kick it old school and I'm going to go with like the gateway book for me to get into fantasy. And that was, um, Tamara Pierce's beginning of the Lioness Rampant series.
00:38:25
Speaker
okay so I have always loved those books. And I think as a teenage girl, not a teenage girl, like a tween, as I was reading them, I found like a really great kind of kick-ass protagonist.
00:38:42
Speaker
Um, and I felt kind of, like I could go on adventures too. And it got me really excited about reading. So I would bring that book. And if you let me, I'd bring that whole series, but I understand if there's not enough room on the boat.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's, i love to hear, cause I'm a very big fantasy reader. So it's crazy always interesting to hear what the kind of inception for someone getting into fantasy was.
00:39:10
Speaker
yeah I loved that. And from there, that was just like the hopping off point for me to go to the library and like the poor librarian. I'd walk in and be like, what's like this? Give me books.
00:39:22
Speaker
But that's what librarians are so great at is yeah they'll be like, oh, you liked this. And then they'll they'll they'll sort of think, I wonder what the elements were that they liked of this and then recommend something accordingly. Yeah. And when you kind of have like a, like an 11 or 12 year old girl walking in, they're just like, okay, what can i what can I give you to this to keep you going and enjoy all of this genre?
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yes, exactly. A young person with so much potential to become an avid reader. Oh yeah. Um, but I, I just loved, I loved the world and loved the imagination and kind of seeing books that were outside of our own world really for the first time that that I loved. I was like, okay, the sky, the sky is no longer the limit. Um, other universes are so let's go find them. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah. And it's fantasy, like a big part of what you tend to read outside of work. Yeah, i'm I read a lot of fantasy. i'm I'm reading kind of around the genre a little bit more, especially as more fantastic romantic is being published.
00:40:27
Speaker
um And then the other thing that I've been reading a lot of um that kind of helps switch my brain off from like agenting mode is um more nonfiction historical kind of books.
00:40:37
Speaker
Because it's something that I mean, I don't really represent historical nonfiction. um So it's something that I'm not sitting there going, oh, I would have edited this differently. Or it's it's something completely that I'm just like, oh, I don't have to think I just get to read and learn something new.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So sort of an escape. Yeah. yeah Very dry academic historical tones. Yes.
Podcast Conclusion and Contact Information
00:41:04
Speaker
Awesome. Um, next up, um, I'd love to get a bit into cover letters, queries, and, um, sending manuscripts to agents. Uh, that will all be in the extended episode available on patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:41:19
Speaker
um That's the, that's the part of the plot that that I latch onto the most. Okay. That's great. That's really good um advice. And I imagine lots of people listening will will take that under advisement when they're thinking about what they're writing, what they're submitting and things like that.
00:41:38
Speaker
and Thank you so much, Liza, for coming on the podcast. We're we're at the end of the episode now. But it's been so been so great chatting with you. It's been so interesting hearing all about your career and your kind of path to becoming an agent and as well as everything that you're doing with your with your list and and your authors. Yeah, thank you so much.
00:41:55
Speaker
Thank you um I had such a fun time talking to you, and I can't wait to see what the listeners send me for their books, hopefully. um and for anyone listening if you want to keep up with what liza is doing you can follow her on twitter at liza de bloc on instagram at liza the lit agent and if you're thinking about submitting to liza or any of the team at mushins entertainment you can head over to the website www.mushins-entertainment.com
00:42:26
Speaker
and you'll find all the submission guidelines and how to do everything there and now you know that they all sit down together and read through them together. so if you get slightly the wrong agent on your title, it's fine. They'll pass it to the right one.
00:42:39
Speaker
um To support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes. Thanks again, Liza. And thanks to everyone listening. we will catch you on the next episode.