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#226 - Tegan Phillips and Dan O'Brien
10 Plays14 minutes ago
Romance author Tegan Philips and her editor Dan O'Brien join us this week to talk about Tegan's debut sports romance novel, writing about chronic illness, why ice hockey is so successful in the romance genre and the relationship of an author and their editor.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. love it. Because the writing is sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer is there. So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by two guests. One of them is an author whose debut novel Melting For You will have just come out by the time this airs and the other is the assistant editor who commissioned the book over at Herra.
00:00:30
Speaker
It's Tegan Phillips and Dan O'Brien. Hello to the both of you. Hi. Hello. Thanks so much for for coming on and and chatting with me.
Synopsis of 'Melting For You'
00:00:39
Speaker
um Let's jump right in with, obviously, the thing that connects you both, the thing that brings us all here today, the novel Melting For you I think we'll probably pass this one over to Tegan, um and I'll ask you to tell us a little bit about what readers can expect in the story of Melting For You.
00:00:59
Speaker
So Melting For You is about Ellis, who is a chronically ill single mom. and just trying to get through every single day. and When she bumps into her ex, who she hasn't seen in 10 years, Liam, and he's a professional ice hockey player.
00:01:14
Speaker
And they spend one night together that ends in a pregnancy. And the book follows them throughout the pregnancy, trying to work on their relationship, whether they should co-parent or whether they want to start dating each other again. And it's a lot about the relationships of them two and her son and the relationship with his team. And the idea of trying to come back together after 10 years apart.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah. The complications of sort of making all the different parts of your life work together. Yeah. Yeah. Dan, does that sound pretty close to the pitch that you read when you decided that this was a story you wanted to publish?
Chronic Illness in the Novel
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it does. Um, it was, um, you know, trope laden. Um, I think the real, um, Paul for me was the unique aspect of the protagonist having fibromyalgia being a character who's chronically ill while going through um The typical romance tropes of, you know, second chance love, you know, exes reuniting in the backdrop of the ice hockey sphere, which is such a popular um part of commercial romance fiction at the moment. It felt like sort of the perfect storm of all of these topics to cover in one book.
00:02:32
Speaker
So immediately it was it was a really easy pitch to pitch in-house. Thankfully, what Tiki gave me. And when we say chronically ill, of course, this this can refer to many things.
00:02:45
Speaker
You just named it there. I am not going to be able to replicate the word that you just said. um ah Just, I guess, back to Tegan here. what What is the the chronic illness that we're dealing with in the novel? And is that something that you have experience with in real life?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. So it's fibromyalgia, um which is a chronic pain condition. and It affects mainly the back, but it is an all over illness. It affects brain function, joints, sleep. Every single part of life is affected by it.
00:03:19
Speaker
And I was diagnosed with it when I was 16. and The more common thing, like it's more common demographic is women over 40. But again, I was 16. So, you know, not quite not quite the usual.
00:03:34
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Having every single aspect of your life dictated by how much pain you're going to be in every single day, I feel like isn't something we see a lot in books. And I think disability representation as a whole should be in more books.
00:03:50
Speaker
and And it wasn't something I'd read before. And I thought little 16 year old me who was struggling with all these things would have loved to have been able to read a book about someone like me getting their happy ever after. And I decided if I can't find it, I guess I'll have to write it.
00:04:07
Speaker
That is the advice that you often hear in publishing. It's like, well, if it doesn't exist, you should write it Yeah. um No, that I mean, i totally get it. It's one of the beauties of books and novels and I guess any kind of media form is being able to know that you're going through something, but you're not the only person that other people have gone through it and like, it's going to be okay.
00:04:27
Speaker
Is it the sort of illness that... It's like, it's, it's not terminal. It's not going to you know, if it's not going to effectively shorten your your life or anything like that, but it is just a struggle that you have to deal with.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's not terminal, but it is lifelong um and it will deteriorate as I age. Obviously, as most people's joints and stuff get worse as the age and mine are already quite bad.
00:04:53
Speaker
So and over the past few months, I've had to start using a walking stick and things like that just to support my hips. So there will be deterioration as I grow older and as life carries on, but as long as I have a good patent pain management,
00:05:09
Speaker
I should be able to live a relatively normal life as far as normal can go for someone who is disabled. Yeah. And Dan, you said it was the kind of specifics of that chronic illness that really drew you to this story. Is this something that you also have experience with?
Personal Experiences with Chronic Illness
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah. So I am type one diabetic. I have been since I was eight years old. um That's also a condition that is and and type one, more commonly diagnosed in children.
00:05:37
Speaker
It's essentially just um a malfunction of the body. My white blood cells decided to um attack my pancreas and this is how been living ever since.
00:05:49
Speaker
um So i think... being chronically ill is and quite different experience to maybe other illnesses. Like you said, asking the question of, is it terminal? It's I think a really good question to ask because so commonly with illnesses and sickness, we see as um the end of that story should be you either get cured or you die.
00:06:12
Speaker
um And being chronically ill, typically neither of those things happen. You know, our illnesses might kill us, but we don't know. and All we know is that it is ah is' an everyday occurrence.
00:06:25
Speaker
It's not something that you you ever take a break from, which is really mentally and physically exhausting. And i obviously I've read a lot of commercial fiction. I've edited a lot of commercial fiction and I hadn't seen a character like this yet, especially where the story doesn't end in a heartbreaking and death.
00:06:47
Speaker
Not to spoil the book, but I think we know we're going to get happy ending, right? We're not ending the book with a, you know, Fault in Our Stars style death scene. and we're But we're also not ending the book with Ellis being cured, which is how a lot of us live our lives. and It is just part of our identity and part of our stories. There isn't really a conclusion to these illnesses.
00:07:08
Speaker
um And I love that Tegan put in a unexpected pregnancy trope, because that funny enough is also what happened to me. I, it wasn't an unexpected pregnancy, but it was obviously a pregnancy with a chronic illness and, um, I, you know, pregnancy is difficult.
00:07:28
Speaker
for everyone, for very individual reasons. But when you already have a pre-existing condition, and i cannot emphasize how difficult it is. It was um the most terrifying experience of my life.
00:07:42
Speaker
um It is unlike a typical pregnancy, very high risk. and The risk of stillbirth, heart defects, everything is multiplied.
00:07:53
Speaker
And it's very unpredictable and very scary and leaves you with a lot of guilt and a lot of fear. And i was quite astonished how Tegan was able to capture that despite not having experienced it physically herself. I think it's just something that especially as women with illnesses, you do you think about it. You think about what could happen to me.
00:08:13
Speaker
What could the implications be? Will I ever be able to do it? and And I think Tegan captured those anxieties and fears. And experience well. And I think we made a good team and being able to sort of collaborate on, well, I've been in that situation and Tegan has obviously thought about that situation.
00:08:31
Speaker
um and it was nice to put that and onto the page, you know, while threading through the the plot A of the romance.
Ice Hockey in Romance Novels
00:08:42
Speaker
and And you mentioned this is going to be a happily ever after. This is sports romance has become very, very big over the past few years.
00:08:49
Speaker
I kind of have a ah question for both of you ah here, because sports romance as a kind of combining of two genres seems like a total slam dunk. Like the the the tropes of both of those genres complement each other perfectly.
00:09:03
Speaker
But ice hockey is by far and away the most popular sport in this genre. What is it about ice hockey? Yeah.
00:09:12
Speaker
See, I liked ice hockey before I liked romance books. Okay. So for me, it felt like the sport I knew the most about, which is why when I wanted to write a sports romance, it's where I went.
00:09:26
Speaker
and But as a whole, ah think, especially in the UK, because there isn't as big as an ice hockey following here, it feels a little bit exotic. That feels like the wrong word.
00:09:41
Speaker
But when you're reading football books, it's like, okay, I could just put on... TV and watch it, whereas with ice hockey, it's something a little bit different. So it's like entering a whole new genre that you don't see every day.
00:09:57
Speaker
i okay. So it adds that extra something new. And also, if you're not a fan of ice hockey, when you read ice hockey books, there isn't necessarily a lot of the actual sport going on.
00:10:11
Speaker
So you don't feel weighed down in having to know all of the rules. Yeah. but yeah okay that makes sense yeah no yeah it makes sense when you say like that sort of transporting it's sort of transporting you to a different culture a different kind of um ecosystem that you that we in the uk are just not familiar with yeah dan is that kind of this your same understanding of why ice hockey has just trumped all the other sports in this genre yeah i do i think it feels um distant enough for UK readers. um
00:10:42
Speaker
I mean, I'll be honest, all sport is sort of exotic to me because unless we're talking about, you know, something like boxing, which is already massively popular globally and and in the UK, ice hockey felt worlds away to me.
00:10:57
Speaker
um And I think, you know, it's it's the ah foreign nature of it not being as popular here. I think there's a bit of ah a fantasy about it. I think in the same way that things like, you know, cowboys are hugely popular.
00:11:12
Speaker
You know, when's the last time you saw a cowboy in the UK? and But everyone watches Yellowstone and kind of is in love with Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead still. So it feels um and it feels like a bit of a fantasy in the way that, you know, American readers, especially American romance readers, kind of have fantasies about Irish and British boys. Yeah.
00:11:32
Speaker
Because it's all, you know, maybe maybe the men in other lands might be more my type. And I think ice hockey ah really dominates that space because of the sort stereotypes we have about them.
00:11:44
Speaker
And it's just something new for UK readers to explore. Whereas, yeah, like Tegan said, football, we kind of know what we're dealing with there.
00:11:54
Speaker
If anything, we know too much about what football players are to.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, and that makes sense. Yeah, I get that. Had you had you guys read much ice hockey romance before this? Yeah, I've read a lot. Yeah, my only experience with it had been um Icebreaker by Hannah Grace, which I think really is what put ice hockey books on the map.
00:12:19
Speaker
I think that's undeniable. um And that package, I think, has really propelled ice hockey to the the forefront of everyone's shelves and commercial reading.
00:12:30
Speaker
There's no doubt that she sparked that. So yeah, I read that one and I was ah immediately shocked by how spicy they could be. And ever since then I've realized, oh wow, they're not cutesy, you know, fade to black romances like some packages might suggest.
00:12:44
Speaker
the um The spice levels are pretty high. Yeah, there's something interesting in that because the there's definitely a the the cover art for Ice Hockey Romance has kind of been it's it's kind of got its brand now.
00:12:59
Speaker
And it does seem kind of cutesy. You wouldn't have historically I think it used to be like ah ah a big sweaty bicep or something. But then now it's this cutesy sort of heartstopper style thing. So you wouldn't see it in a shop and think this is going to be spicy.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um I mean, I've spoke about it a lot, like just within the industry in general, the the way that sort spicy romance packages have developed. and We've gone from the sort of bodice ripping, um muscle bearing, oiled up man on the cover, which is so evocative, you know immediately this is going to be a hot and spicy, sexy book.
00:13:36
Speaker
um And now the the the lines are way more blurred and sometimes they can almost look like YA books. um Yeah, I think that ah I mean, me and Tegan both have experience of being teenage girls. I don't know what your experience was like, Tegan, but I kind of think regardless of of of the package, you know, we grew up reading, you know, Wattpad fan fiction that was, you know, probably incredibly above our ah age range of what we should have been reading.
00:14:03
Speaker
I think we've we kind of got um baptism by fire with stuff like fan fiction. um And, you know, i think regardless of package, especially teenage girls and sort of new adult readers in their early twenty s are going to seek out this content. And I think there's an element of being able to read books now in public without having a sort of sexual shame that everyone knows that you're reading something, especially when there's a big erotic scene.
00:14:31
Speaker
um I mean, even you know, sometimes as I am like turning my book away from other people in the tubes. They can't see what the page says. ah The cover's beautiful. The content, hey, I don't want people looking over my shoulder and reading that, little bit embarrassing. and um I think it gives people a lot more freedom to not just...
00:14:46
Speaker
um sit in the dark and read a book shamefully you know um and it kind of brings sex into the wholesome sphere because you can have a wholesome lovely romance while also having sex it's kind of part of what a love story is a lot of the time right Yeah.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah, that makes a lot of the, the public consumption thing makes a lot of sense because I guess also just when you're at home, you know, if if it's a genre that you're into, you're not, I mean, a lot of people are not going to want to display proudly on their bookshelf.
00:15:20
Speaker
Like you said, lots of oiled up six packs kind of in a row. Yeah. And even the, ah you know, we have the, the ones that are more, um, I guess, I don't know put it, sort of implying sex. Like think of like the E.L. James of the world where it's just like... Yeah, 50 shades. Yeah, a grey tie on the front, which is sort of implying things, a bit of a wink, wink, nod, nod.
00:15:43
Speaker
um But I think well but what these genres are doing, like Hannah Grace, Teagan Phillips, another author of mine, Emma Rae, who kind of have this... um sort of cartoonish style it it appeals to a certain age range while also being accessible for them to read about sex and relationships and not feel like they're reading something that is kind of meant for an an older demographic it's a fine line to tread and i think publishing does naturally have ebbs and flows in in trends and packages and i don't doubt that in 10 years time we'll kind of have a new trend and a new yeah set of packages that we're looking at and
00:16:18
Speaker
But for now, I think it has taken an interest in turn of people that wouldn't normally read very sexy hot books and now very much reading them. Yeah. But I think you're really, you made a really good point about it It does sort of normalize sex in a healthy kind of happy, normal relationship. Whereas it doesn't have to be like, uh, if I see some of those other things and I've not read them, but the, the, the gray books doesn't, it's not a healthy relationship. unless I wouldn't say it's a happily ever after kind of romance.
00:16:52
Speaker
Um, Whereas like this new kind of wave of cartoon on the cartoony kind of uplifting things on the front. It's like it it is a ah nice romance and a lot of the time it's going to be happy ever after. it also has sex in it and like all real relationships do pretty much.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think it's something's positive. Yeah, we have we have two major ends of the spectrum for a long time in romance books. And now I think. books like Teagan's is bridging that gap between wholesome, you know, quote, clean, fade to black, almost Christian romances, especially what like Americans might refer to it as, versus the, you know, dark romances, straight erotica.
00:17:32
Speaker
um I think books like Melting For You sits in the middle and it's a great middle ground for people that don't really want either end of the spectrum, but just want to read a romance that has sex without being too heavy on either end of the scale.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes sense. I'm going to dial it back onto Tegan for a bit here. um Melting for you, your debut novel, how much had you written before this one?
00:17:59
Speaker
So I'll go back, back.
Writing Journey of Tegan Phillips
00:18:02
Speaker
I've always written things, whether it's poems, short stories, just like little bits and bobs.
00:18:11
Speaker
am But then when I was doing me English GCSEs, My English teacher really tipped me off writing. She was very critical, very just not welcoming to different styles of writing.
00:18:25
Speaker
So for a long time, I fell out of love with it, didn't write anything. And then 2020 happened. I lost my job just before lockdown. My mum and my sister, who I live with, were both key workers.
00:18:38
Speaker
So everyone was still at the house and it was just me alone with nothing to do. And I started reading again. And then it reminded me of how much I loved writing, and how much fun it was. And I thought, I can't get a job right now because everywhere's closed down.
00:18:56
Speaker
I've got so much time to just be. Why not give it a go? I don't even need to tell anyone. And I can just fiddle away on my iPad and see what happens.
00:19:08
Speaker
and And I wrote a couple of little short stories, like thousand words, 2000 words, just little things. And I realized that the short stories I was writing, if I zoomed out, could be linked together in a full story.
00:19:26
Speaker
And I thought, hell, I've already started. Why not? So plotted out a full story. It was more of a novella. It was around 60,000 words once it was finished. in 2020. And after that, the spark was just lit.
00:19:42
Speaker
and And I wrote four more varying in length, varying in genre. I mean, they were all romance, but some had sex in them, some of them didn't, some of them were fade to black. I was just experimenting with what I enjoyed, seeing what spoke to me.
00:20:00
Speaker
And then I started writing Mountain For You. And I remember texting one of my best friends halfway through and being like, this feels different. It felt like a different level.
00:20:10
Speaker
It felt more put together. I was enjoying writing it. I mean, I'd always enjoyed writing, but I felt so deep into the story. So much of myself weaved into the story and I was just, could not stop writing it.
00:20:25
Speaker
And wrote and i wrote so and it was finished and it was the longest thing I've written. And I was so proud of it that I thought this is the one I have to send off. But that was maybe the fifth attempt at a novel that I'd written okay since 2020.
00:20:40
Speaker
But the first one that was like ah full length, fully fleshed out that you kind of were were happy with as a whole. Yeah. The other ones were a lot more just experiments.
00:20:50
Speaker
I could go back on and edit them and fix them up now that, you know, I've got more experience. But this was the first one that felt ready.
00:21:02
Speaker
Okay. That's interesting. And then once you decided to submit, you know, put it out there, see, see where it could go. what what did you do Where did you send
Dan O'Brien's Discovery of the Novel
00:21:13
Speaker
it?
00:21:13
Speaker
How did you end up? Um, how did you end up, you know, meeting Dan at Hera? Well, here's the thing. I had no experience with anything at all.
00:21:25
Speaker
So I just, I didn't know how to get an agent. I didn't know If I needed one, I didn't know any anything about the publishing industry other than I really like this and I think other people would too.
00:21:36
Speaker
So I just Googled, oh I actually Googled, can you get a publishing deal without an agent? Because I had no idea how to get an agent. him And a website came up that was like, here are the places that are accepting author-led submissions.
00:21:53
Speaker
And I wrote down a list of all the different places and then Googled them, had a little look at if it would be somewhere that I think the type of books that I write will fit.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right? Like ah there's no point in me sending it to a place that only publishes science books, you know? and So i got a list of a couple and ah just thought so the worst they can say is no.
00:22:21
Speaker
And at the end of the day, if they do say no, I'm in the exact same position then as I am at the moment when I'm Googling it. It wouldn't change anything if they said no. So let's just see.
00:22:32
Speaker
And I sent it off to maybe four or five different places. um
00:22:42
Speaker
Obviously different publishing houses ask for different things in the submissions. Some want the full manuscript, some just want the beginning. And I had to create different packages for each place, different cover letters and submission forms and things like that.
00:22:59
Speaker
and And I'd sent it off to a few of them. And over the few months later, ah had a couple of emails saying, hey, no, this isn't really for us.
00:23:10
Speaker
and I had one telling me they enjoyed it, but it was too long for what they were looking to publish at the time, things like that. and I had somewhere asked me if I wanted to do hybrid publishing, which is where I pay a percentage of the money up front for the publishing.
00:23:28
Speaker
But something about that didn't feel right to me. It was just I didn't feel comfortable with it. and And then Christmas happened and I thought in the new year, if I haven't heard anything, I'll start writing my next book because I had more ideas for more books all the time.
00:23:46
Speaker
and And then in January, I got an email from Dan asking if I could jump on a FaceTime call. And I got myself so ready for that FaceTime call. I was ready to pitch myself.
00:23:57
Speaker
I was ready to pitch the book. I had like ah piece of paper with me of all the selling points. And then I got on that FaceTime call and it was actually Dan trying to sell Hera to me and not me. So it like completely knocked me for six because I was expecting to have to sell myself.
00:24:12
Speaker
And it was actually her pitching to me. I was like, oh, well, this is not like I was speechless basically the entire meeting because I was just not expecting it at all.
00:24:25
Speaker
And now here we are. Yeah, here we are. I mean, it's great that you prepared for it. I'm sure Dan appreciated that. Oh, yeah, definitely. is that That's the first time I'm hearing in that. um So what so what what did that look like from from your end, Dan? Were you kind of looking through these submissions in the Hera inbox and then you just came across this one?
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was quite funny. So we we have our general submissions box, which is for unagented submissions, um which I think is really important. we we We do take both. I meet with agents all the time.
00:24:59
Speaker
um But ultimately, there's there's so much undiscovered talent. And I think it's really important, especially for authors with a working class background who don't know how to get an agent, like Tegan says,
00:25:10
Speaker
um I've been in her position before as well. yeah I think it's great to be able to look at people who don't have representation um and go forth and see what they're offering. ah So it comes through our general inbox um where a few editors are on and um my line manager, Keshe Neneidoo, who's at Hero Books as well,
00:25:30
Speaker
said, Oh, this looks like your cup of tea. I said, Kesha, I'm already halfway through it, babe. I've already started it. and it's We all go, Oh, this looks like a bit of you. And nine times out of 10, the editor is already like, I'm on it.
00:25:41
Speaker
Say less. um So I'd already sort of decided in my head I get really passionate that I'm publishing this book um I just need to really pitch it and so internally you know you go through that publishing rigmarole of um convincing um everyone above you ah why this book should be published um and just trust me it's a lot of um just trust the process I know what I'm doing and and i my my sort of last step was then talking to Tegan and
00:26:13
Speaker
It does sound like I basically begged her, like, please let me publish your book. Don't worry what anyone else says. yeah Here's why you should be with Hera. Because, yeah, I want to, um you know, I feel like when someone gives you their book, they're kind of trusting you with their baby.
00:26:28
Speaker
um They spend so much time with the story and the characters um it It's a bit like a piece of your heart. I know that sounds a bit cringe, but it's true. It's someone bearing their soul to you bit it can be a bit embarrassing.
00:26:42
Speaker
So i really want to make people feel safe and like being with us is the right decision and that what we're offering is beneficial to everyone involved. So um it it meant a lot to have Tegan and to have a story together.
00:26:57
Speaker
with the aspects that she'd implemented so yeah it was partially me pitching to tegan but also getting to know um tegan more and her backstory and i think that always helps to sort of contextualize what was in front of me what was on the page and how we would work together in the future say yeah it's partially ah proposal on my end but also you know i want to i want to know who i'm working with and if she's happy to work with me
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it's also that um it's weird to think from the author's side that you were work kind of working for Tegan before you'd even reached out to her because you're putting like a presentation together to pitch to the rest of your team to be like, no, we need to sign this novel.
00:27:45
Speaker
So you've already started working with and for Tegan before Tegan is even aware that you've read the book. Yeah, yeah. I'd say to any authors and listening that you really don't know what's going on behind closed doors.
00:28:00
Speaker
You know, yeah at this very moment, an editor could be putting together a pitch and putting together, our you know, comp authors and jackets and stuff. potential sales figures and designing a whole pitch for a book that you've kind of been sitting on for maybe a decade.
00:28:14
Speaker
It is, it is very strange to feel like I was, you know, obviously rooting for Tegan without having actually spoken a word to her.
00:28:23
Speaker
I felt a weird closeness to the book and to Tegan, bit of a parasocial relationship I had via the submission box with Tegan Phillips, and whom I hadn't met. So yeah, when we jumped on that call, I was like, oh,
00:28:36
Speaker
I know you inside acting and I've read, I've read the most, you know, sensual scenes that you have put to paper, you know, we don't show very well now. um so it yeah, it did feel like me, and you know, going to her after talking about her for so long, you know, I can imagine why you Tegan were a bit like, oh, this is weird. I thought I was going to be selling myself to you, which yeah absolutely as an author, you, you obviously do that. You, you want to you know, keep a publisher engaged, but, um, I think yeah when when a publisher is approaching you quite keenly, the the good signs are already there.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. I mean, and then there's some great, great words to hear, I think, yeah, for any aspiring authors and writers listening to this, where it's like, yeah, you never know what's happening. You might have given up on something, but someone behind the scenes is actually like working really hard to convince the rest of their team that this is a really great novel and they want to publish it.
00:29:29
Speaker
And it it it can take months, weeks. it It really can. I don't remember the exact date that Teagan's book come in. um But you you know, we can set our submissions for weeks, not because we want to, or because we want to delay the process or, know, leave anyone waited. ah It's a whole process to read a whole book, really analyze where this could work for us, the market, the position, um our publishing strategy, pitching this.
00:29:53
Speaker
um So if, you know, you're sitting there thinking, I haven't heard back, this is so depressing. and Keep giving it time. You really don't know when the right thing will just pop up in front of you and obviously chase sometimes a little nudge never hurts sometimes editors we need it we need to be told hey i sent you this about six months ago have you had a look um it it's a good reminder but yeah you you really never know i think i think it took about four or five months in total for me to go back to teakid and say hey this is um we want this Yeah.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, great, great to know. um We are about halfway through the episode here and that means it's time for me to ah ship you both off and ask if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
Desert Island Books
00:30:40
Speaker
Teagan, let's go with you first.
00:30:43
Speaker
Well, other than how to build a raft for dummies,
00:30:47
Speaker
My choice is probably actually going to be a bit of a surprise because it wouldn't be a romance. Okay. It would be Porn of Prophecy by David Eddings, the first book in the Belgariad series.
00:30:59
Speaker
and Okay. It's a fantasy novel, but it's got a lot of deep roots in my family. much Basically, every everyone in my family read these books. And when I was going through a tough time trying to get diagnosed with fibromyalgia and I was just struggling.
00:31:15
Speaker
My mum could see that I was struggling. So she used to make me lie in her bed with her. And she read me the first and second book of that series is just to try and get me out of my own head a little bit. and So if I was on an island, I'd like having those memories.
00:31:30
Speaker
And I've read that book many times now. And I've loved it every single time. And those extra added memories, definitely that one. Yeah, that's so nice. I mean, obviously, the beyond the book itself, there's and a really strong personal connection. So I feel it that makes full sense why you would take that book if you were by yourself, it would keep you company. Mind you have better times.
00:31:55
Speaker
um Dan, same question. What book would it be? Oh, I have a typical literature girl answer. I am undoubtedly taking Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte. Okay. um I fear there are going to be eye rolls.
00:32:12
Speaker
I don't care. um It is is everything that I have loved about literature and storytelling. um I first read it when I was about 12.
00:32:24
Speaker
didn't realise it was considered, you know, ah classic or something literary. I was, remember reading it in in class when I was in about year eight and a teacher come round and give me like a gold sticker. who said, wow, can't believe if you're reading Emily Bronte.
00:32:36
Speaker
i was like, well, that's no big deal. It's like a cool romance. You know, I, my first crush was Heathcliff. I was obsessed. I thought, God, this is why are we bothering reading Romeo and Juliet when this exists? um It's, it you know,
00:32:50
Speaker
ghosts the supernatural the the gothic romanticism of it all oh it's just beautiful and i know people's like dream destination is to you know visit the maldives or bali or australia like you know these beautiful destinations my dream is to go running on the moors in yorkshire that's where i need to be i i need live my best catherine earnshaw lifestyle um kind of I sound like such a fangirl.
00:33:17
Speaker
I'm basing my whole wedding on this book. I've got tattoos for this book. and So if I said anything other than Wuthering Heights, I'd probably be disingenuous to who I truly am at my core. But it is beautiful. And I think that what she wrote is the blueprint for a lot of romances now.
00:33:34
Speaker
I think had Emily Bronte existed now, um you know, if she was like a 22 year old right now and she was writing a concept of a supernatural romance, she would be considered like a booktop girly.
00:33:47
Speaker
Um, she would definitely, she'd definitely be publishing in like the commercial space, despite it being so, you know, grand and heartbreaking. Um, And I think it's it's amazing how this book has continued to touch at teenage girls and young women. And, you know, my mum is still obsessed with it in her fifty s So I think it's it feels like a little piece of of girlhood and a lovely Gothic tale.
00:34:11
Speaker
with a bit of a toxic man. And I hate to say it. I, I, you know what I, I have ignored a lot of red flags in Heathcliff. I'm not bothered. love him. i love all his darkness and yeah, maybe that explains how I am the way I am now.
00:34:24
Speaker
But yeah, I take take a bit of Bronte with me. I think that's great. I think there's, um I try not to get caught up in the culture of if it's very popular, it's probably not that good.
00:34:36
Speaker
Because a lot of the time it's very popular because it's very good. But you know what I mean? Society's always like, oh, everyone's reading that, everyone's watching that. So it's probably not great. But no, I think yeah absolutely you're absolutely right.
00:34:47
Speaker
And between the Brontes and Jane Austen, you've basically got the blueprint for all current romance. Oh yeah. And there's, that there's so many, so many retellings.
00:34:59
Speaker
I'm a bit, a bit nervous for the Emerald Fennell film. Just going put that out there. i'm I'm nervous for any film, to honest, any adaptation film, I'm nervous for it. So yeah, definitely puts me on the edge. You know, Jacob Elordi as Heathcliff, not so sure about that. I mean, you know, I'm not sure we can ever please all the fans, but yeah. Yeah.
00:35:19
Speaker
Scary a little bit, but i do I love that, you know, we're seeing classic and retelling sort of infiltrating commercial fiction and sort of pop culture romances like Disney.
00:35:33
Speaker
the Sydney Zweeney film, um Anyone But You being based on Shakespeare. um i think it's really cool that we're sort of bringing to light that these stories are very of their time, but it doesn't mean that they're old stories.
00:35:46
Speaker
They are, you know, ingrained in the human condition and falling in love has always been part of us. So whether it happens, um you know, in a a different language, in a different time, it still holds a lot of significance today.
00:35:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. And the fun thing as well is like, as time goes by, um you get more retellings of books, ah stories that perhaps there's a sort of like, I don't know how to accept explain it, but there's sort of like a ah ah time ah distance where it's,
00:36:21
Speaker
you're like, now you're allowed to do the retelling of it. So as we get kind of further along in time, it's like, oh, well, this book, which I guess is now old enough that we could do the retelling of it. That's kind of fun. I really like that.
00:36:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Especially when it's sort of, there's enough time as laps where you can take a different spin on things. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like a bit of a a cash crap, like, oh, it's 20 years old now. We can kind of do that. And it's like, oh, no, it's a bit too fresh.
00:36:46
Speaker
There's too many people alive who still remember it in it's yeah in its prime. So you kind of got, almost got to wait for like generations to, to leave this earth before you're like, right, let's reintroduce it to people that actually aren't as familiar with it, which is really cool. And I think we're seeing a big research, not just retellings, but, you know, general adaptations, you know, we're getting, um, Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.
00:37:08
Speaker
Um, got really excited for that. So yeah, I think it's, um, I'm hopefully want to see a bit more of a romance spin on that. I just love a love story. Clearly that's why I'm with Teagan. I just love reading about love, you know, put, it put it into horror, put it into supernatural, put it into ice hockey, you know, it's already ingrained. Yeah.
00:37:27
Speaker
it they're already ingrained Yeah, yeah it's um
Potential Adaptation of 'Melting For You'
00:37:33
Speaker
it's nice to see. So I think that that's kind of a bit of a ah pop culture thing that's going to continue.
00:37:39
Speaker
And I'm kind of waiting for the time that we're going to see an italki romance adaptation. I'm picturing like an Amazon Prime original series. Yeah, there must be one. I'd be surprised if there isn't if they're not doing Icebreaker or something.
00:37:53
Speaker
I'd be surprised. Well, you know, if there's anyone out there who wants to make a mountain for you, why wouldn't you complain? We are willing to negotiate the rights on this one. if this any Any execs at Netflix, please get in contact. You you need this.
00:38:07
Speaker
Trust me. You need this, yeah. You've got to be the first on the scene. We've got to be the first adaptation of Ice Hockey Romance. exactly it's a race yeah awesome great stuff uh we are heading towards the next part of the episode where we are going to get into a bit more of the writing process and given that this is a kind of rare and fun opportunity for me to chat to an author with the editor at the same time um we'll go a bit more into the mechanics of that um all of that will be available in the extended episode on patreon.com slash right and wrong
00:38:39
Speaker
um Yeah, it's going to be. Oh God. Yeah. yard yeah and And imagine the cosplays. like but This is going to be a real fun era that we're entering guys. I hope you're ready. Strap in. Oh, wow.
00:38:50
Speaker
Well, I'm excited. ah whatever happens, it'll be, it'll be interesting and exciting to to watch unfold. Um, Well, thank you so much, guys. We're at the end of the episode. It's been so awesome chatting with the two of you and hearing all about Melting For You and kind of all of the work and inspiration that went into it, as well as little bit about the the other things that you two have going on. Yeah, it's been so cool chatting. Thank you so much.
00:39:13
Speaker
Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's nice talking to you too. Thank you. It was really great. And for everyone listening, Melting For You is out on the 22nd of May. So most likely by the time you're hearing this, it will be out and available in all the usual places. If you want to keep up with what Dan and Tegan are doing, you can follow Dan on Twitter at DanMObrien underscore or on TikTok at DanObrienWriter.
00:39:38
Speaker
You can follow Tegan on Instagram and TikTok at TeganPhillipsAuthor. To support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:39:50
Speaker
Thanks again to Dan and Tegan and thanks to everyone listening. we will catch you on the next episode.