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#223 - Heidi Swain
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Bestselling romantic fiction writer, Heidi Swain joins us this week to chat about her twentieth novel, how she landed her book deals before having an agent and how she tackles writing two novels a year.
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Transcript
Introduction to Guest and Latest Novel
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast podcast.
00:00:06
Speaker
if yeah so some readers love that and some readers were like but i wanted more of this so it's kind of' kind of a gamble hello and welcome back to the right and wrong podcast On two today's episode, I am joined by a best-selling author of Feel Good Fiction, whose 20th novel is out as of this airing.
00:00:28
Speaker
It's Heidi Swain. Hello. Hi, hello. Thank you for inviting me to come and chat with you today. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for for being here with me. Let's start with so much to talk about, but let's start with the new book, your 20th novel, Best Summer Ever.
00:00:46
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about it. Oh my goodness. I can't believe it's still when I hear people say that 20th book. um I'm not sure how that happened. So, um okay. So Best Summer Ever is a series title.
00:00:59
Speaker
It is my third trip back to the North Norfolk village of Wynmouth, which is absolutely idyllic. um As with all my series books, though, you don't have to have read them all in order or any of them at all for the latest release to make sense, because they all feature different main characters.
00:01:21
Speaker
So this book is about Daisy, who is returning to Wynmouth after ah rather difficult, mortifying breakup, I suppose is the way you could put it. And she is having to move back into the family home, into her childhood bedroom, in the hope of embracing the best summer ever.
00:01:41
Speaker
um And while she's there, she meets this wonderful American guy called Josh, who for some reason has turned up in this tiny little village and is also having the summer there.
00:01:52
Speaker
and And yeah, it's kind of about what happens when they get to know each other. And it's about Daisy finding herself back at home and finding her way back to something that's really important to her.
Exploration of Norfolk Series
00:02:05
Speaker
but You mentioned that this is part of a series. How many books are in this the series that's set in this Norfolk town village? Okay. So in this particular series, there are three titles. There's a summer title called The Secret Seaside Escape.
00:02:21
Speaker
There's a Christmas title called Underneath the Christmas Tree and Best Summer Ever. That's the third. Okay. But as you mentioned, you don't need to have read the other books to, to you can basically jump in with any book and in this series and you'll be fine. You won't need to have read the other ones.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, not at all. Because all of my books feature different main characters. So it's, you know, their story is complete within the pages of that novel. Yeah. I always think it's fun when you have a sort of series like this, which is which are essentially unrelated, but in the same exist in the same sort of universe.
00:02:54
Speaker
Do you have the sort of characters from the other novels pop up as sort of side characters or sort of cameos within each of the novels? Yes. Yeah, they do. So for example, in this one, there's a pub, there's a gorgeous pub in the village.
00:03:08
Speaker
um And that features characters who have appeared before. And readers absolutely love that because they get to go back and you know find out what's happening with a character that was perhaps a main character in a different title.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yes. I guess ah from a writing perspective as well, it's a nice way of sort of alluding to a sort of happily ever after in some ways without actually, because ah presumably you would have concluded that character's story arc in their novel.
00:03:36
Speaker
And yeah then popping up in this one, if a reader has read the other one, they can get the moment and be like, oh, look, they're happy because they went through it all. And now they're they're doing what they want to
Standalone Novels and Importance of Setting
00:03:45
Speaker
do. that's it that's it exactly um with the with the winbridge with the winbridge series i'm just turning around look at my bookcase i think there are oh i don't know there are nine maybe books in there now so you know you've got characters from all over the place popping up in those in particular okay ah of the 20 are all of them in some sort of series no they're not actually i've got a couple of standalones now as well um
00:04:14
Speaker
I have got The Book Lovers Retreat and The Holiday Escape. So yeah, they're two standalone set in completely different places. and So yeah, it's been it's been quite an interesting experience switching from writing series books to writing standalone novels.
00:04:29
Speaker
Are the standalone novels a newer thing? You historically used to always write series? Yeah, yeah. so um the last two summers, I think is how we've worked it out. They have both been standalone titles. So The Book Lovers Retreat,
00:04:43
Speaker
set in the Lake District and The Holiday Escape set in Dorset. So that, yeah, that's been really interesting. Okay. But of course, because of the nature of your series, you could always write more novels set in those same places and now they become series.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And funnily enough, a lot of people asked actually when they'd finished those books, please go back to these settings. um Setting is a really important feature in my writing and they were desperate for me to go back.
00:05:11
Speaker
I haven't yet, whether I will in the future, i don't know. But at the moment we're classing them as standalone. so Oh, okay. That's great. I mean, it's it's great to have the freedom to sort of revisit different places as you want or just try somewhere new.
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Best of both worlds, I guess. Yeah, exactly.
Journey to Becoming a Published Author
00:05:30
Speaker
um So like we just said, like you said, you still can't really believe it. It's an incredible achievement to have written 20 novels, let alone published them.
00:05:40
Speaker
um I'd love to go back to the start with your debut novel, The Cherry Tree Cafe, yeah which I think came out in 2015. Is that right? It did It did. Yeah.
00:05:54
Speaker
How long had you been writing before um you were first published with that? and Well, I've always been a writer, you know, right from my teen years, I was scribbling all sorts of things. um But it took me until I guess I was nearly 40 before I decided that I should pluck up the courage and try and take it seriously.
00:06:16
Speaker
and It was a case of, you know, if you don't do it now, you're never going to do it. That was how that was how I was feeling at the time. and So I wrote my first novel to see if I could write a novel.
00:06:28
Speaker
And then I wrote the Cherry Tree Cafe. So the Cherry Tree Cafe was my second full length novel. um And that was the one that got published. So in some respects, it sounds as if it happened really, really quickly.
00:06:40
Speaker
But there were lots of years of writing other things that kind of worked up to that. who The first novel that you wrote, did you send that to to agents or or editors or anything?
00:06:54
Speaker
I didn't do anything with that. I printed it out, read it, put it in a box under the bed and kind of forgot about it to to move on with the with the next one. But the crux of that, the actual setting of that novel became the setting for my second novel, Skylark Farms.
00:07:12
Speaker
So, you know, it wasn't wasted as it was as it were. You know, i still kind of i still kind of made use of that. and So, yeah, I didn't do anything with it at the time, but it came back out of the box when I needed to write the second book.
00:07:25
Speaker
Okay. So it was almost a sort of a proof of concept for for another book that you wrote later. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I wasn't being that clever about it at the time, but ah but yes, yes, I'll claim that.
00:07:36
Speaker
but Yeah. Well, retroactively we'll say that's what it was. Absolutely. That's exactly what it was. Edit that appropriately, please. So the second full length novel you that you'd written, The Cherry Tree Cafe, how did you how did that end up being published?
00:07:51
Speaker
Did you submit that to agents, to competitions, to editors? What was that what was the road in there? ah So the first thing that I did when I was writing that book was join the Romantic Novelists Association New Writers Scheme.
00:08:03
Speaker
ah Because I knew I could submit that book and receive a critique back from a published author. And that kind of felt like an invaluable opportunity, really, to get that kind of advice before I decided to try and put it anywhere. So sent the novel off.
00:08:17
Speaker
It came back. I had a few tweaks to make, which I which i did. And then I was kind of thinking about what I wanted to do with it. And Books in the City, the digital imprint of Simon & Schuster, announced their one day which is 24 hours open submission. You can submit an unsolicited manuscript to them for consideration as being published as a digital release at the time.
00:08:43
Speaker
And so that's what I did. i think it was July 15th, I think it was. I submitted it and it was July 15th or the 16th the following year that the book was published. Oh, wow. Wow.
00:08:56
Speaker
It was incredible. it really was amazing. So I put the book in in July. I think I heard back from them in September and I've got the two book deal offer in November. It was amazing. Oh, I see.
00:09:07
Speaker
So you submitted that on the basis of ah of it being, let me see if i just get this right here. You submitted it on the basis that it would be a digital only standalone, but then you were offered a deal yep and the wake of that.
Agent Partnership and Career Enhancement
00:09:20
Speaker
That's it. That's it. Exactly. So the first two books came out as eBooks. Then I was asked to write a Christmas book. and So I got another deal, asked to write a Christmas book. And then we went back and published them also in e-book and, ah not e-book, sorry, as audio and paperback. So they're all out in paperback.
00:09:41
Speaker
Oh, wow. that really You really hit the ground landing with your publishing career there. It was amazing. it was such a fantastic opportunity. and And yeah, and it just kind of snowballed from there, really. I think I was on my fourth book.
00:09:55
Speaker
when i decided that I needed to start writing full time, I knew i was going to be writing two books a year from then on. And I couldn't juggle that with a family and working in a school as well. So it was sort of time at that point to make the leap.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. Amazing. So at what point did, and I think you your literary agent is Amanda Preston at LBA. It is Wonderful Amanda. What point did that partnership um come about?
00:10:23
Speaker
I think I had literally just signed my third deal when I decided that agent might be the way to go. An agent would be useful, o more than useful.
00:10:38
Speaker
And yeah, and Amanda was the only agent I submitted to because she kind of ticked all the boxes for me. and okay And we had a we had a meeting. She invited me down for a meeting and offered to represent me that day. So She's been with me for quite a while now. But to be honest, it kind of feels strange to think that I had produced those other books without her because she's such an integral part of of my work. You know, she's she's amazing. She's always there and she's a great part of the team and the publishing team are fantastic. And I consider myself very lucky.
00:11:13
Speaker
Okay. So who do you you said it was around your third deal. So had you already published four novels or so by the time you decided? so Yeah, no representation for those. um But, you know, S&S were looking after me really well.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah. And everything was going in the right direction. And I kind of, I suppose, lack of confidence at the start made me think this, you know, this might this might not work out. But then by the time we published the first two and they sold really well and we were going to paperback and we had another deal and then another deal, I thought, you know, actually then there might be some legs in this.
00:11:51
Speaker
i need a bit more help. but if you If you could, like thinking back to it, do you think you should have gotten a literary agent earlier in the process or were you fine with it how it was and then the timing that you did get your agent?
00:12:07
Speaker
I think looking back, i I'm really happy with how it how it worked out. um You know, you can be waiting such a long time to hear back from an agent because they have so many submissions.
00:12:19
Speaker
And I think for me, it was a it was a real leap of faith to put my words out there at all. And I think I kind of, I just, once I've made the decision, I had to get on with it. I didn't want to be waiting around because I think my courage might have failed me. Sure. Yeah.
00:12:37
Speaker
I think it kind of, it happened in the right way. Okay. And it's interesting to think, so traditionally i I would have thought you were, you've, you've had, and you are on, you know, a consistently like, um, Simon's used to keep giving you new contracts is what i'm trying to say. You've released 20 novels with them now, you know, that they seem, there seems to be a great partnership happening there and it just keep, you know, there's, it doesn't look like any signs of stopping.
00:13:05
Speaker
So what, What is um Amanda's role in that? Is she there to sort of just negotiate the numbers and things? Yeah. So Amanda kind of takes care of anything to do with the contract.
00:13:18
Speaker
and ah She's just a great writing support as well. So for example, when the, when the and first draft is are submitted, she gets a copy. Claire Hay, my editor also gets a copy.
00:13:31
Speaker
And we kind of, I don't know, we just kind of make every decision as a team, the three of us. We work very closely. We work very much together. um And sort of any queries that come in from other publishers about whether I'd like to read a proof for another author, everything comes in via Amanda. She's kind of like a a go-between. And having her there to take some of the the pressure off from other things. It just means that I can focus on the words. ah You know, that's the most important thing, getting the stories out there, especially when you're writing two books a year. There's not a lot of time for lots of other things, but there are still lots of other things that you have to do. So having an agent means that they can take the strain. They can carry the weight of some of that for you.
00:14:18
Speaker
Right. Okay. She just takes a lot of the more like publishing business sort of things off your plate, freeing you up to be more creative. Yeah. Yeah, she does. um And she's a great friend as well. You know, we we were in touch every week.
00:14:31
Speaker
ah She's wonderful. She's really, really great. Okay, great. Yeah. And it's like you kind of mentioned earlier, it sort of sounds like you you don't know how you managed without her. And and now she seems like an invaluable part of the puzzle.
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah, I can't imagine. I can't imagine hand up her not being around now, bless her heart. yeah she's um Yeah, she's amazing. She's really, really great. And like I say, it's just really nice to have an extra pair of eyes.
00:14:56
Speaker
on the manuscript. and ah So when an edit comes back, we'll have a we'll have a Zoom meeting, the the three of us, and and sort of work through everything before I start working on a second draft, which is what I'm doing at the moment with an autumn book.
00:15:09
Speaker
and So yeah, it's just that extra bit of reassurance and support, which is wonderful. Yeah.
Collaboration with Editor and Publishing Team
00:15:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like we mentioned, all of, all 20 of the novels have been with Simon and Schuster.
00:15:22
Speaker
um You mentioned that Claire is currently your editor. Has Claire been your editor from the start? Claire was my editor right at the very beginning. I think, I think we edited three books, three books together. And then she left for a little while and I had a couple of other people um and then she came back.
00:15:42
Speaker
So aside from, Two or three books. Yeah, she's been she's been my editor to you know through it all. she's yeah and She's wonderful. And we've got a great working partnership. And that really makes a big difference, I think, because as I'm writing something, I can almost gauge her reaction to it. I know what the note is going to be, whether that's positive or not so positive. When I you know when i get it back, I know what she's going think about something. um But that's great. That's really wonderful.
00:16:13
Speaker
And it's the same with a lot of the rest of the team as well. I have Pip Watkins. She has designed every single cover, all 20 covers she has designed. And, you know, she pulls it out of the bag with every single one.
00:16:26
Speaker
um And then my wonderful publicist, Harriet, as well. We've worked together for years. So it feels a real, you know, it feels a collaboration such a great collaboration. I might be responsible for the words and the story, but you've got all these other people in the background doing a great job as well.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like a sort of tight knit publishing family that you've kind of, the whole thing is built around. Yeah, it is. And that's, yeah, that feels really, really supportive. And that's, you know, that's how I like that's how I like to work. um So yeah, that's great.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, when you have the same people that you kind of already have a rapport with, you all already have an understanding of what the kind of goals are, what the missions are, what everyone's supposed to be doing.
00:17:07
Speaker
I would imagine, especially when you're putting out two books a year, yeah everything becomes much more streamlined the more you do it because everyone just knows what to expect from everyone else. It really, really does. um And in terms of like the cover art, people ask me all the time, do you get a say in your covers? Because I know lots of authors don't get a say in what goes on the covers of their books. But we always, we work on that together.
00:17:31
Speaker
Claire will ask me for a brief, which she will take to Pip. and Oh my goodness. I can't remember the last time I asked her to change something on a cover because they come back and yeah I, know, opened that image and it's like, yeah, you got it. That's it. Exactly. I might change perhaps a bit of footwear or shift the color of something a little bit, but that's it.
00:17:51
Speaker
the Just like sort of minor notes, but other than that, just great. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. That's, I mean, it's, it's great. I guess that's kind of everyone's dream in publishing. Like I have heard stories when people have had, whether it's because they're changing publisher or like someone goes on maternity leave or something, you know, whatever the reason may be of like sort of having teething problems when they have a new editor or like something moves around within the team. But yeah, well, you, you seem to have built this family that's just kind of stayed with you this whole time. it sounds amazing.
00:18:22
Speaker
It has been amazing. And even when I had the two other editors, it was you know It was like a really, really careful handover. um And they were great. They were also fantastic. You know, we just so it still felt like we were working on a Heidi Swain book. There was no I don't think if you if you picked up a book edited by somebody else that you would that you would that you would be aware of that. It feels very much like they've all come from the same place.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, that's, that's great to hear.
Favorite Book and Personal Reading Tradition
00:18:52
Speaker
um We are at the point in the episode where I um take all of your belongings and ship you off and ask you, Heidi, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:19:07
Speaker
Crikey. Oh my goodness. That's a question. For a start, I'm really liking the thought at the moment of just going to a desert island and having some peace and quiet. Yeah, it couldn't be, wouldn't be the worst thing. I'm going to be really predictable and ah name the book that I absolutely love and that I always, always say.
00:19:27
Speaker
And that's A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. Oh, you said predictable. I was thinking Jane Austen. wasn't going to guess that. um well like Well, perhaps not predictable then. No, I like that. I like that. um It's a book that I read every December the 1st.
00:19:44
Speaker
I've got a huge collection i just i absolutely adore it so if it was the only book i could take that's what it would be christmas carol oh that's so interesting i've never i think you're the first person to say that i've never had anyone but yeah ahve i've had dickens but i've never had specifically a christmas carol love it so that's right can i take the muppets dvd as well would that be allowed Oh, naturally. Yeah. I think that's a gimme. If anyone wants to take the Muppets, they can take it.
00:20:13
Speaker
Brilliant. Yeah. We'll throw in Muppets Treasure Island as well. oh go mad. um Amazing. A great choice. ah but Very original too. to um Yes. Awesome. ah Coming up.
00:20:27
Speaker
I've got some questions about Heidi's writing routines, how she keeps pace with doing two novels a year and ah whether she is a planner or a pantser. That will all be available on patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:20:41
Speaker
So um it was a real struggle. It was really, really hard to juggle everything. But if you want something that badly, you will find a way to make it work.
00:20:52
Speaker
You'll make it happen. So go for it. Yes, yes, indeed. um And ah that's a great place to to wrap up this episode. So thank you so much, Heidi, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about your your new novel, Best Summer Ever, and ah everything that you've been doing with your writing and publishing journey. It's been awesome chatting.
00:21:13
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I've really enjoyed it. ah Heidi's latest novel, Best Summer Ever, is out right now as of this airing, so you can find it in all the usual places.
Where to Find Heidi's Work and Podcast Conclusion
00:21:23
Speaker
And to keep up with what Heidi is doing, you can follow her on Twitter and Instagram at Heidi underscore Swain.
00:21:29
Speaker
If you search for her on Google, you'll find her website and she's also on Facebook. To support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe, join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:21:41
Speaker
Thanks again, Heidi, and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.