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Episode 56 - ADHD Shame Spirals, Guilt, and Self-Blame!
123 Plays1 year ago
Paul and Martin (co-mayors of ADHDville) head down the path they both know very well, shame spirals! ADHD shame spirals are a painful cycle of self-criticism and guilt that can follow challenges with focus, organization, or meeting expectations. When someone with ADHD misses a deadline, forgets a task, or struggles to keep up, they often internalize these moments as personal failures, leading to intense feelings of inadequacy and shame. This shame can trigger avoidance or procrastination, which then leads to further setbacks and reinforces the cycle. Understanding that these struggles are symptoms of ADHD, not personal failings, is key to breaking the spiral, building self-compassion, and finding effective strategies to manage ADHD.
We also have a quiz (WARNING! Paul decided to do a quiz that involved anal surgery, so if that's going to put you off your cornflakes, better jump out before it starts!
See our beautiful faces on YouTube
Put quill to paper and send us an email at: ADHDville@gmail.com
ADHD/Focus music from Martin (AKA Thinking Fish)
Theme music was written by Freddie Philips and played by Martin West. All other music by Martin West.
Please remember: This is an entertainment podcast about ADHD and does not substitute for individualized advice from qualified health professionals.
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Transcript
Marty's Priest and Vatican Rental Connection
00:00:00
Speaker
Back in the room. Back in the room, back in the room. So yeah, Marty, I had a visit from my priest, the local priest. I saved Molly because he's not only the local priest, he also happens to be my landlord. oh Oh yeah, that's right. Given the fact that I actually rent my house directly from the Vatican church,
00:00:21
Speaker
You know what, you know, I mean, like how, you know, like steps of Kevin, but Kevin Bacon, you know, like, so that, so you're renting from a, bar from a, from a, from what a priest. Yes. Then there's the Vatican. Then there's God. Yes. Right. So those are very short.
00:00:45
Speaker
The house of God and then your house. Yes. And and my body. Right, man, I think I think you are. I think you are going to have to push your back even more. I'm just I'm just pushing my level levels here. All right. like over now Usually it's flat line. It's flat line. And now it's like super loud. Wow.
00:01:16
Speaker
I've got a dial. Oh, for God's sake, turn it down. I don't know which way, though. You're probably three and anti one two one, two, three. I think that's better. That's it. Yeah, it's better. I think I think I think that's better. Right. So yeah. OK, technical glitch.
The Unexpected House Blessing
00:01:39
Speaker
um So so um he knocked on the door.
00:01:43
Speaker
And I looked down from my studio, which is right here, look down, and he's looking up and said, Oh, I said, Hello, it's meaner there. And I said, Oh, she's not she's out. But I said, Hang on, I'll come I'll come down. So I was going down the stairs thinking, Oh, he's gonna he's asking for rent, or he's gonna, he's gonna tell us that Oh, we're gonna have to increase your rent. Or something like that. Oh, God, you know, anyway, no, he's just collecting.
00:02:11
Speaker
But in his collection, he wanted to bless the house. Oh, come on. He wanted to bless the play ah house. So picture this, what it is. He said, well, how about we do it in here? We're in the kitchen, me and the priest. Right. Right. Yeah.
Protestant Identity Humor
00:02:28
Speaker
He's splashing his little thing around the little thing around thing. And he said, oh, let's do a little prayer, shall we? OK. Right. How much is this costing me?
00:02:40
Speaker
ah that's That's the point, isn't it? It's the always, you know, it's like the travelling salesman. He says, so um are you are you Catholic? I said, no, actually, I'm Protestant. I'm Protestant.
00:02:55
Speaker
crossed it ah prostate and no a protest prostitu I said, actually, even of my surname denotes me as Protestant. He said, how's that? Well,
00:03:08
Speaker
The P in Thompson apparently appears off during the reign of King Henry VIII, when he wanted to divorce his wife, Anne Boleyn, and the church, the Vatican told him he couldn't divorce her. So he said, well, bugging you, I'm going to create my own church. called and He called it the Church of England. He's the head of the church. and he's in So from that point on, um because before him, Thompson was without the P.
00:03:36
Speaker
to say certain But I said, I'm not religious. At which point we started talking about the saint in waiting that lives lived behind me, Stefano, Stefano,
Stefano's Sainthood and Local Legends
00:03:50
Speaker
Queen Sani. I said, Oh, yeah, because you oh you probably I said to him, you probably know the story about her pulling her hair out. He said he didn't know. He didn't know about her pulling out her hair.
00:04:03
Speaker
But he didn't sneak at people who she was pretty ugly. god Apparently, she was quite ugly, but she pulled out her hair. There's the story goes, she everyone said, Oh, yeah, basically, she was ah quite ugly, but she had beautiful hair. She says her response was well, bugging you and she literally pulled her hair out with a bite with her own mittens, her own hands. He didn't know that story. I said,
00:04:32
Speaker
So apparently, she's waiting to be a saint because she performed a miracle. Oh, which is apparently what you have to become as to become a saint, you have to prove that you performed a miracle. Mm hmm. Right. Which is probably why I haven't become a saint yet, because I haven't managed to prove anything. Right, you know what? Yeah. And so he doesn't know what miracle she performed some come on. Right.
00:05:02
Speaker
You'd think I'd be the minimum, wouldn't you? You'd think that would be the... Right, because in my head, right, he's coming around to your gaff, he's going around everyone's houses, he's... I don't know he's you know, maybe he's a little bit short on cash, so he's just sort of doing the rounds, right? And and I'm thinking, right, well, if if you can make the saint if you can make a saint in your village,
00:05:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's gonna be a BFD, right? That's gonna be a big fucking deal. They're gonna come from miles around. Yeah, he can he can sell his own gift shop. Yeah, well, they do come from miles around if her effigy, there's actually is behind me. She there's an effigy of of this of this Stefano, Queen's sign is behind behind this wall. um If she started her eyes started bleeding.
00:05:56
Speaker
right then we it would be disaster because either our red would go up or we would get thrown out of our house because they would start having like hundreds of thousands of people visiting and selling accessories or souvenirs right tea towels how if she starts if her effigy starts bleeding her eyes start bleeding it's bad news or from her palms because i was thinking obviously You know, going to the butchers, getting like a pork chop, getting some little bit of blood, going around there just with a little tea pipette. Just getting a little bit yeah get a bit bit of blood running down her cheek. Yeah, right. Self sandwiches. Waiting. Right. Self sandwiches. Right. and But that's what they did throughout Europe. You know, like I don't know if you know, the light the there's there's the pilgrimage in northern Spain to sounds so San Sebastiano.
00:06:55
Speaker
like thousands of tourists go there every year because they do a pilgrimage and all because someone like 400 years ago faked some blood on the effigy of the Madonna and now everyone goes. It's like their way of like guaranteeing tourism. my I'm surprised that the pace had that that that your priest hasn't kind of been a little bit more proactive. Exactly. how activeive and Entrepreneurial.
00:07:24
Speaker
entrepreneurial that's what's lacking in the priesthood these days that's what's that exactly and with that uh welcome to
00:07:56
Speaker
that's funny. All right, so don't forget to like and subscribe. Yes, yes. Comment. and All right. righty all there So hello, I'm Paul Thompson. I was diagnosed with the combined ADHD almost exactly not exactly almost a year ago. Blimey, you're like blowing the speakers out. It's ridiculous. um what I don't know what's going on. um really i It is like I'm playing with the dolls.
00:08:27
Speaker
If where you where your mic goes in, there is probably like a dial right next to where the mic is, where the mic input goes. No, no, no. you know yeah yeah on on all other Let's try to take it back here a bit. How's that? Is that better? Is that better? out
Introducing the ADHD Podcast
00:08:46
Speaker
but I don't know. Not really. I'm just twiddling dials.
00:08:49
Speaker
Usually it's flatline and mental. I know, I know it's crazy. um All right, crackin' on. my my name My name is... Martin Weth... What? Is it? Yes, it is. It is. At least that's what it says on my birthday certificate. So I was so yeah i'm marty wasson i was diagnosed with the combined ADHD poo-poo platter in 2013.
00:09:20
Speaker
So we're we're we're here as two mates. here we're we're So we're just here as two mates. Who by coincidence or not after 39 years of friendship discovered that we're co ADHD years Martin?
00:09:34
Speaker
um yeah It's really important to say this is an entertainment podcast about adult ADHD and does not substitute for individualized advice, Martin, from qualified health professionals. So don't take any advice from us. No, we're just here as a kind of all-inclusive ADHD part bench with room for everyone, including your doppelgangers, your teagoes, your buddy doubles, your chaperones, and even your best buddies. Still here. Congratulations.
00:10:03
Speaker
could stay in action. Then grab your jack-back's pedal-o-space-hole-poser or any other transportation methods and let us take you to ADHDville, any imaginary town that we've created in our minds. We like to explore different plant plot different parts of the A, the D, the H and the D.
00:10:28
Speaker
ah It's so shambolic. We are so shambolic. It's unbelievable. I can't do. I ah can't just be calm. It's got something to do with ADHD. I can't be calm and read something out. Something that somebody wants to read it like I'm Dil the dog. ah now Yeah, if you're English, you i might know what Dil the dog is. I know what you mean. and and Anyway, as we start and we start, see even even I, I've caught the shambolic bug.
00:10:54
Speaker
yeah um Anyway, we start off as always here in the town hall in the mayor's office where we, the joint mayors of ADHD Bill, take care of business.
Understanding ADHD Shame Spirals
00:11:06
Speaker
And I'm just looking at my notes and we have two things. We we are going to talk about um shame spirals and how to get out of it. And we have a quiz, apparently.
00:11:19
Speaker
in part two, so I love me a good quiz. So, we're all right, where shall we go, Mr. Tom Cioli? I think we're going to go to the police station. We're going to the cop shop. Yeah, because, you know, where else is there? That's where all the shame is, right? Yeah. We could have gone to the Confessionals. The Confessionals would be on theme with our priest. Go to the Confessional. Confess our shame.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah. But I'm not Catholic. I guess, you what are you, Martin? you I'm atheist. yeah Yeah, I am actually. but Yeah. OK. All right, let's jump in the car and let's go.
00:12:11
Speaker
Oh. Sounds a little bit of the Hell Street Blues signature going on. You say that every time. Oh, I love Hell Street Blues. this sick The ah intro theme.
00:12:25
Speaker
All right, so let's start off with what is a spiral, what is a shame spiral? Right. ah What it is, I guess, is is um it's a cycle of negative self-talk emotions triggered by a feeling of guilt, embarrassment or inadequacy.
00:12:46
Speaker
So, you know, ah but you know, and if you have ADHD, they are, they are quite common with us, right? and And it's mainly due to these repeated experiences where we ourselves are like, yeah forget stuff, or we procrastinate, or we screw things up, or we underperform, and then you kind of get this feeling of shame that... Repeated and therefore after a bit when you're old geezers like me and Martin,
00:13:15
Speaker
And not only is it like a, you know, it develops into a pattern and you start records and it's like, this is like uneasy pattern develops after a while. Yeah. And this shame kind of comes from, well, it starts off, I think with other people telling you, right. What are you doing? You're late. You're an asshole. Not only that, there's a pattern of you being an asshole.
00:13:42
Speaker
right right yes i've not that i've not had anyone say pull if you if you just hang on a bit it hang on a minute did you realize there's a pattern now no one's told me that Right. but i think ive But I think that you kind of internalize that pattern or you see it in yourself. It's like, ah like God, I'm always late. I'm more, Jesus. what you know And then then you so then you start to feel like like like you're ah Yeah, I think it's it you feel like it's ah it's a character flaw, right? Like, what's wrong with me? And then you kind of spiral down into shame. And the problem is is that is it it gets ingrained in your bones. um Yeah.
00:14:30
Speaker
And yeah on a day to day basis or a week to week basis, you can go you can find yourself, you know, something can trigger that shame spiral. You can start spinning down it and then it takes you a while to kind of get out of that. And then that for b and even like if you feel like if means one shame could be related to relationships, right? There's a co common theme amongst ADHD, isn't it?
00:14:58
Speaker
And it even gets to a point like, oh, you've finished, like you've finished diabolically one relationship. You think, God, do I want to start another one and have another diabolical finish to another situation? You know? Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm just I'm just trying to try to think of some of the sort of shame spirals I get. I think that they end up being I think there's kind of I find that there's two camps. So for example, if I can think about, right, so I didn't do my taxes for like, for a couple of years, right? So I would feel shame around that.
00:15:41
Speaker
awesome And then I would think, oh, I can't do the taxes. yeah I would ill go down a shame spiral. And then I would just not do the next year's taxes. And then I'd feel even worse. yeah so So now I'm two years down. yeah And then I come to three and now I feel worse about that. So I'm now spiraling even further down.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so there's so there's that bucket of things that I shamed spar about, but then there's the other one, which is more about the kind of me as a person, you know, like, yeah, i'm I'm always late or why am I, why why do I screw up so, so much? So there's like, so there's there's that kind of, there's one around tasks and things and then there's one around my personality and I've got I've got like, it's like for me, it's like, you know, my personal life. Yeah. But also like how the impacts on how it's impacted me professionally and also um as a family member as well. because There's a hell of a shame in family situations like Jesus. Right. You know, oh, my God. Yes, I think that that's that's that's where you first get it from. Right. I think probably that. Yeah. And school. Yeah.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, i'll give I'll give you a light easy I've got it written down one example here of that. It's like, when my mum died, just like 20 almost exactly 24 years ago, this week, actually, my mum passed away. And um it was like a hideous moment. When um you had to decide when my dad was deciding, like, um you know, and and just financially as well about how much is going to pay for her her headstone and her coffin and actually how big the they were going to dig or how much they had to compensate when they were, you know, putting my mum under the crown, whether other moment family members might be joining her.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I just didn't want any part of that conversation. It's just like, my mom's just died, you know, and it was just so crass, you know, and this vulgar, I just hated the whole thing. And I said, I don't want to be buried. I want to be ah cremated.
00:18:02
Speaker
All right. ah But my, so but other members of family said that they say, Yeah, we want to be buried next to mom, you know, and my father as well, but next next to um his wife, my mom, I said, I don't want to, I didn't say that I said, No, I'm sorry, I just, ah I'm really happy just being created. I didn't want to be any part of it. But the point being, I could tell both of them were looking at my sister and my dad were looking me like, Oh, you're just being an asshole.
00:18:32
Speaker
Right. Right. Am I am my consciousness was always clear on it, but I always felt shame about it. That situation looking looking looking back. Yeah.
Personal Stories of Shame
00:18:45
Speaker
But then so many choices, you know, it's like I if I'm confronted with a I think just a in that instance, like a choice that I didn't really want to be part of. You know, here we go. I'm gonna feel like an alien again.
00:19:01
Speaker
you know okay let's tick those boxes again okay let's do it let's do that thing you know oh boy yeah no i mean yeah i mean yeah there it's it's so hard to think of like off the top of my head shame spires because i almost feel like i almost feel like my ability to step into and fall down into a shame spiral is like easy.
00:19:35
Speaker
like yeah I think of ah while I was walking the dog that this morning, I was thinking of, you know, um that Beatles films, a Yellow sub Submarine, yeah that kind of like, you know, that psychic 60s cartoon. I think, I haven't seen it for decades, but I think there's a scene where there's just holes everywhere and they keep falling down them. And I kind of feel like that that's that's me. like vi Like on any given day, I can fall down a small shame spiral like 20 times a day.
00:20:13
Speaker
easily and the roar is well greased oh yeah yeah it's like oh god yeah here we go hold that you know you don't even have to ask for the lube it's someone's already put it there put it there for you yeah all right i have plenty of very well used shame spirals that. Yeah, oh here we go again down this one we go. All right. both Yeah, because you know, because I, I use mine, the word, the thing that I came up with ah some years ago now even before even before I had the ADHD diagnosis, i I call it the like the pinball. No, like the pinball machines.
00:21:00
Speaker
And I've just felt like for years just being like the the metal ball, you know, that just gets bounced around, you know, and I have no control over it at all. It's like my instinct for like behaving differently from everyone else is stronger than me. It's like, okay, here we go. It's bouncing around. Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. And then being like the other shame is like the, the you know, the the the shit that you leave in your wake, you know, you have to clean up afterwards. You know, like a rowdy party. and lobby I was, you're right. I was I was thinking about the divorces. Yeah. And, and all the other kinds of questionable behavior. You're gonna go back you look back on
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, with some shame. Yeah, no, I mean, roundy parties in like, conceptualizing it. They just like clean up after like, as you say, after a messy divorce, messy relationship. You know, burning bridges in my work environment.
00:22:17
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, there's it's I mean, like, because you tend to like look at other people and go, well, they don't appear to be doing any shame spiraling.
00:22:32
Speaker
like they just seem to be just doing their shopping and you know getting on with things and you think jesus christ like why am i sort of falling down these fucking spirals every five minutes i think they have as much shame as i think neurobeige people have as much shame as we do but they just less sensitive to it than we are, we're more sensitive to it, we think about it more. Right. Well, I think it's, you know, because it's mostly just going on in ah in our own heads. And, and I and I don't know what's going on in everyone else's heads. And I and i automatically assume that they're all having lovely lives. Right. Somehow. Right. And I'm the only one who isn't.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, I get pissed off with people that don't have shame. They act like complete assholes. It's probably one of the most frustrating things for me. It's a bit like if i ah so friend or family member or colleague, and they behave badly and they have no shame whatsoever. That really triggers me. That sets me off. like What the fuck? You know? Yeah.
00:23:43
Speaker
yeah Oh god, yeah. I mean, Gnosis is someone who has no shame, right? No. No. Oh, we love a narcissist on this show. We do. We do. We do.
00:23:58
Speaker
like Gnosis are like our unofficial kind of mascots, you know. Nope, they are. They are no mascot on mine. Effigies. Put pins in them. Yeah, a voodoo doll.
00:24:14
Speaker
a voodoo doll. yeah yeah i have When I was little, I was trying to think of an example, Martinez, when I was little, what to what did shame look like, right? I had shame because I was really, well it might my friend's mother's always said that I was really fussy with food.
00:24:32
Speaker
All right. And so and it was always I knew that I sometimes didn't get invited for tea, or for lunch, because I was too much of a fussy eater. And it's like, that and I had so much shame about that so much shame. so now I realized I wasn't fussy at all. I was just particular. I like, you know, the 70s and 80s, the amount of shit that was put on your table that you're supposed to eat, you know,
00:25:00
Speaker
Are you sure? Because that just sounds like autism to me. ah but That's possible. That's what it sounds like to me. Well also, could I have a thing with like ketchup and I hated anything that was like oozy. Okay. I don't mean the gun oozy. I mean, you know, like oozing like liquid sauce kind of stuff.
00:25:23
Speaker
right yeah so you didn't like ketchup no because because i remember when when we first met so we first met back in art college right when we were i was like yeah read about 1985 18 and you were 16 and i can remember distinctly sitting there doing some work i remember like i was pointing this way you were in the desk next to me but behind me and kindlo right and okay you were telling me how you never had pizza in your life right yes i i was and i was shocked shocked shocked i did i was shocked
00:26:09
Speaker
shock head that you never pizza. Yeah. Now thinking back, it makes sense. It makes sense. i had a problem With all kinds of things. I had problems with with mushrooms. I had all kinds of things that would link to why I mean, I think I had now looking back back back. I had I had some kind of eating disorder when I was a kid. I was very skinny.
00:26:37
Speaker
I don't know what, it wasn't bulimia, but it was the other one. I can't remember. But I definitely had an eating disorder. I think it sounds like you had a very restricted diet, right?
Coping Strategies for Shame Spirals
00:26:49
Speaker
You only liked certain things? Yeah, it's associated with a bit of a difficult story that i I would like to tell, but I can't. but a trauma ma There was trauma related around the whole ah food eating thing at home, a lot of trauma. So I avoided eating to avoid the trauma. But it just makes the trauma worse. Yeah. but get yes It was psychological, totally psychological, just trauma related. Yeah. All right. So so um it's quite interesting. Like when you were saying this, is that your earliest
00:27:32
Speaker
shame spiral that that comes to your mind. like first First one, yeah, I think so un so. Because I was thinking, oh, this is an interesting question because I was trying to think of when, what my first shame, the shame spiral that I can remember. And I think it was around stammering.
00:27:54
Speaker
Or or stuttering as it's known in the in the u.s. So so i've started all my all my um And that's probably the first thing that I felt shame around that I can think back on and I didn't even really into interestingly, I didn't really think of it as a as a shame thing until my mother sent me to a speech therapist. Oh, hang on a second. There's clearly something's wrong here. I'm i'm i'm having to get yeah it out for something. Whereas I don't think I remember being particularly
00:28:38
Speaker
I, it it almost feels like that was the first time that I was actually, it it was brought to my consciousness. Right. Well, I was sent to Great Almond Street because I was, I was so underweight. I was sent for tests, like pretty horrendous horrendous tests as well at Great Almond Street. I had to stay the night as well. And that was a lot of shame around that. I hated that. I hated it.
00:29:04
Speaker
all right Yeah, because they thought I had a physiological problem, but no bugger, even at Great Almond Street, it's supposed to be one of the best children hospitals in the world. They did nothing. They just said, oh, no, there's nothing wrong with him physically. go All right. On your way. Send me back, but send me back home. That was it. Yeah, that sounds like the 70s. Yeah. All right. Well, I've got kind of like, do we do we have any, any more stories before we kind of get into like,
00:29:36
Speaker
ways I feel that that will help get out? Oh, good question. um What have I got here? Oh, oh this there is a bit there's a big one, actually, um is I'm not gonna necessarily don't necessarily need to give examples of it. But for me, it was like, the biggest shame is actually towards myself, of just being a freaking people pleaser for so much of my life.
00:30:03
Speaker
And the shame of like, there's so many people, I can't remember who said it. But someone's once said, the only regret I have in life is I should have told so many, so many more people to just go and fuck themselves. and so which i Really relate to because I know, I think the greatest shame I had was was self shame, but I was, I should have been more authentic. Right?
00:30:30
Speaker
right um uh towards myself and um listened respected my own needs better than i did yeah so ultimately that thought that was my biggest shame i think in the end yeah yeah i can relate i can relate i'm with you on that one um yeah because yeah it's Yeah, I mean, like that looks shame. that's like That just feels like, you know, like if you have a backpack and you're just carrying around all these stones, these rocks in it, and that that's what it feels like to me, is like, I'm just carrying around all these rocks and it just weighs me down and, yeah you know, and ah and then I just fall down these holes even harder. um Yeah.
00:31:16
Speaker
All right. So some things ah because because we have a quiz, I feel like resting them i know I need to squeeze hes in a good a good quiz. So what can we do? What can we do? Right. So yeah one thing is ah is awareness and identification. So it's like if you can recognize that you're having a having a, you know, ah going down a shame spiral. So you can recognize those voices in your head. cunning ah Why am I was doing this? Why I just feel like, like, like crap. And, and then actually just, just telling yourself,
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, A, that this is a shame spiral. that that what you And just identify what you're feeling yeah that that in that moment. um You know, are they you know because it isn't because it isn't about trying to deny you have emotions. It's just about trying to name them and try to put some perspective on them.
00:32:28
Speaker
Well, just thinking, like, how could you have dealt with it better? I don't think you probably could have avoided a lot of the issues, but we certainly could have ah dealt with them better, or just made better choices, you know? Like, maybe it's the best way to avoid shame in relationships is is it maybe to to be more careful about the people you share your life with.
00:32:48
Speaker
true. Yeah. know ah Remind yourself sensitive, you know, how many people have my case, I've had relationships in my past, where my partners have been completely bloody insensitive to, to anything other than, you know, kind of a very vanilla way of looking at things.
00:33:08
Speaker
Right. So yeah, so it's, it is about reminding yourself that everyone makes mistakes, especially you have if you have ADHD and ADHD is not a moral failing. So it's not a counter failing. There's um also, yeah, that word failing, right. Mm hmm.
00:33:33
Speaker
It's, it's such a bad word to use with yourself. It's actually better, you know, like, so replacing, like, I'm a failure with, I'm struggling with this. Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm trying to learn this or, you know, like I'm finding this thing difficult rather than placing that moral. Yeah. I was going to let my dog out. So see okay like chat for like 10 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Or say.
00:34:03
Speaker
I'm just a poor boy in a poor family. catapoo catapoos Can you do the Fandango? I can never remember the lyrics. After Fandango, I'm lost. Okay. um Yeah, i was I was reading a thing, but I don't know whether this is a British thing or because there's very there's a lot of culture related to like the definition of shame. Alenda Bowton is a psychologist. He said something really cool about relationships. relationships He said, we get so bloody caught up in the concept of failure in relationships when things don't turn out however you want them to. But he said, but why do we always have to give it that tag? Sometimes just things just don't work out how we would like them to. That doesn't make it a failure.
00:34:54
Speaker
Right. I really I really thought I was a really cool thing to say. Yeah. Yeah. ah And I think, you know, when when it comes to like shame spirals around tasks and stuff, so it might be that, you know, say the laundry is piling up and, you know, the house is looking a mess and you feel like you're shame spiraling.
00:35:16
Speaker
you know, is just just just to do the the most simplest, easiest, lowest hanging fruit thing that you can. Yeah. um Like I, I saw like there was someone was saying about how they have this huge pile of laundry in a laundry basket and they were finding it difficult to kind of put it away. I was just kind of like, what we have to do is just find one sock. You don't even have to find a pair. Just run it around and find one sock because as soon as you do something like a little mini step forward, then your brain will go, oh, let's find a matching sock. And then, okay, well, let's... you know, then, then you can start to dig in. Yeah, kind of dig yourself out. When you when any kind of situation on even that one, if you could start start to make it come from a place of self care, it's already a good much better starting point, you know, there's no one to blame, right?
00:36:25
Speaker
There's no, there doesn't have to be like any figure pointing or, or, you know, chastising yourself just come from a place of care. It's like, okay, if I pick up my socks, I'm just gonna feel a little bit better about myself. Yeah, no, prior time stop no start from a really like simple base.
00:36:44
Speaker
Right. So prior prioritizing your rest. Yeah. And maybe and getting out and sort of doing some movement. Brushing your teeth. Or doing something creative or something. um Yeah. Just to kind of like, put yourself back in. Right. Because it's that it's that. Yeah, I mean, I was going to shout this morning because I was like, Oh, I haven't had a shower for two days.
00:37:13
Speaker
I didn't stink. i'm I'm lucky. I'm not i not a stinky person. um ah You don't sweat like like Prince Andrew? is that Exactly. exactly exactly well i didn't I didn't fight in the Falklands, luckily. I didn't have any PTSD.
00:37:30
Speaker
Right. um So yes, i but even if I swear, it's not smelly sweat, I'm lucky. But and I'm not kind of quite philosophical about shells. I don't think but we should be obsessed with having a shower every day, necessarily. But I just get to a point like, oh, you know, it's like a little bit stinky. Have a shower, you feel better about yourself.
00:37:50
Speaker
All right. Yeah, so there you go. They are. Yeah, yeah. You know what, you know, i was I was just thinking about these, these, these well lubed, yes, same files that the the the I go down. Right. Okay, yeah, fixating mating on the looped loop tunnels.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, I'm there. I'm just okay. I'm just I'm just all ah all about it. Right. Right. Right now. And I'm thinking I should I should name right. I should go. Oh, we oh, oh, it's that spiral. It's it's the it's the Larry. Oh, okay. Okay. Right. Well, that take takes a singer. So if I call it the the Larry Laundry spiral. Right. Yeah. I can't think. All right. Well, you know, make friends with it. Larry, OK. Let's find it. Larry, you know, he's there. Fine. Yeah. So so actually what I'm doing then is I've taken the shame off of me and put it onto this guy called Larry. Yeah. But he can have it. What do you ever do to you? Poor, poor Larry. Well, Larry's a bit of a 70s name. I don't think anyone's called Larry anymore.
00:39:08
Speaker
down what this larry distinct comment one to leave a comment this They just like had a newborn son yesterday. They called it Larry. Larry Hagman.
00:39:21
Speaker
he was larry like man i can ah He was ah the the actor in in ah in a Dallas, right? Yeah. ah Who was jihe i did um was J J.R. Ewing? Who shot J.R.? Well, for our English audience, Larry Grayson. Larry Grayson. Yeah. Yeah. um All right. Perfect. All right. Well, i will with with with those two,
00:39:52
Speaker
crazy shots and references. Let's jump back in the car. We'll go back to the mayor's office. Enough of the shame. I'm done with the shame. And we and we'll um we'll and we'll cleanse ourselves yes but with this quiz. Exactly.
Historical Medical Oddities Quiz
00:40:09
Speaker
Are we taking Larry with us back in the car now? No, fuck him. All right.
00:40:17
Speaker
All right, well, we're back in the mother's office. Hello. Hi. We've got a quiz, Martin. I love this. A quick content warning. So ah the quiz coming up has some kind of surgery and downstairs bum stuff. So if that's going to ruin your day, then eject now. Eject while you can.
00:40:45
Speaker
We've got a quiz. It's quite, it's quite, it's quite a well-defined quiz. It's about King Louis XIV. Yes. And he's got, he's got some very interesting surgical history, Martin. Louis XIV, what do you mean? No, Louis XIV. Louis XIV. He's got some very specific, very interesting surgical history.
00:41:15
Speaker
has our Louie. Okay, so let's let's start. Yeah, let's start off by okay, let's start. We're gonna start off on a like quite an easy one just to like, yeah, right. jesus He's in your way. All right, the loop again. So during um Louis the 14th reign, he granted licenses other than to surgeons to perform surgery. Okay. And he he gave the licenses to one of these professions.
00:41:45
Speaker
OK, so other than surgeons, one of these professions could also officially perform surgery. One. OK. OK. Yeah. Two. Taming up stuff. All right. Three. Of course. Barbers. Such a classic. Of four, Martin. And the last one. Bakers. I would have to go barbers, obviously. state Butchers don't have to go barbers because that that's the that's the classic, why because that's what because barbers also used to do all kinds of stuff. So not just cutting your hair, but but they would do minor surgery right as well. No, I'm not not interested.
00:42:35
Speaker
because I know that like bars that that that's part was part of the role. So um I'm sticking to. Okay. Well, can I offer you the visual element? Imagine a butcher with a cleaver performing surgery. Does that not help you persuade you? it's It's a little bit ham-fisted, like sure. if if If I wanted my arm off,
00:43:03
Speaker
Fine. Maybe I'll go there. Right. Oh, fuck you. yes butbers it barber is it' barbers Yeah, Yeah. It's Barbara's. They're literally called Serge and Barbara's. That is well... Okay, so you got the first one right, Martin. That was quite straightforward. Okay, this is when it gets a bit... um Okay, so I've eased you in. Okay.
00:43:28
Speaker
So we're going to talk a minister we're go to talk specifically about one of Louis XIV's persistent complaints. OK, it's going to be sexual. Right. Yeah, of course. Anal fistula.
00:43:43
Speaker
He had a bit of a problem, Martin, his with an anal fistula, singular. OK. But, Martin, but with two T's. Yeah.
00:43:57
Speaker
How long did it grow? How long did it grow to? after Even after several attempts to remove it? One, two fingers long. Fistula. Two fingers long. Two, three fingers long. Three, four fingers long. Or four, five fingers long.
00:44:23
Speaker
Whenever you get a quantity question, usually it is always the biggest or the longest. Right. Excellent logic. So I'm obviously going number four, like, Jesus, let's see, it's almost like a foot. Yeah. It's a lot, isn't it?
00:44:50
Speaker
no it's four fingers okay so it's number three four fingers long a fistula four fingers long okay it gets even more yeah interesting oh his anal fistula required creative solutions in terms of the tools that develop martin okay to try and um relieve him of his um his anal fixations okay i'm gonna have to put a warning on this one of which yeah Right. Right. Wonderful. Cringe warning. One of which was a feather broom coated with a lube called Manus Dei, which which relates to which which is ah translates Hand of God as a lube, Martin. and but to the It was quite on theme.
00:45:40
Speaker
It was a loop called the hand of God. To draw out the infection combined, not only did it have the man of god the hand of God loop, it had turpentide, mint, pomegranate seeds, yellow wax, potassium, hydroxide, all boiled up in red wine, and later, um additional application of leeches. all right okay ought to Or two. It wasn't a feather boom broom coated with those.
00:46:08
Speaker
It was the title three ah dog his tail tail. Or four, a communal garden, very long spoon. Right. So feather broom.
00:46:27
Speaker
tail of a fox tail of a donkey were very nice well the spoon is obviously the out outlier so let's just cut that out for a for a start um uh fox uh i mean i mean i would go i would go fox i mean part of my brain goes feathers feathers where the hell are you talking about it's feathers bob but i'm going fox
00:46:56
Speaker
got done Feathers. listen to my my come my so my math is face Feathers the loop called Manus Dei, Hand of God. and My God. Pomegranate seeds. Someone said, I know what this needs. Pomegranate seeds. Okay. yeah Next question. Okay, so you've got another one out of three so far, Martin. I've got two more questions.
00:47:21
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Approximately 75 operations were then performed with other patients in order to try and find the best solution for the king. Okay. 75 operations before with rumors that several of the subjects actually died from these experiments. Okay. These 70 75 operations before performed on one prisoners like common two prostitutes three fellow surgeons even i laughed at that four orphans and despots oh yeah well does okay i mean i know no no no no no no the options so
00:48:15
Speaker
Other surgeons, I know that we're science-y guys, they do like to experiment on themselves. But um as it's an out outlier, i'm I'm going to kick that out. So criminals... um i don't think they yeah that they did I'm going to go i'm going to get criminals. Yeah. Yes.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. Back in the game. Okay. So if you get this last last one, if you get this last one, you get a draw. Okay. At this point enters a yeah um there there was a bit of a crisis at this point in Parisian history with surgeons are a bit of a crisis, but but enters Charles français Felix de Tassie. He was a barber shirt surgeon. So moonlight is this barber moonlight is as a surgeon.
00:49:13
Speaker
entered into the the the king's bedchamber, the palace of Esai, on the 7 o'clock in the morning, November 1686, and performed an operation with no anesthetics for an entire hour.
00:49:29
Speaker
okay with no luck, didn't approve it ah didn't ah improve. A month later on December the 6th and December the 8th, Felix had to perform further surgeries to but avoid complications. In a further six-hour operation on December the 10th, Felix performed his final procedure in early January 1687, the King's Festula had healed.
00:49:55
Speaker
his two month ordeal was over martin hurrah but martin yeah but martin what was the final outcome he died okay one feather dusters are now given the nickname of louis in france even today as said okay
00:50:16
Speaker
Two, any surgical procedures became fashionable amongst the Versailles elite and reward. He was ah actually awarded 1.8 million dollars in today's money. Okay. And the country estate as a reward. Okay. um Felix de Tassie was then actually registered the tool that he created for Louis XIV and became very rich today. This tool is known as the faucet.
00:50:46
Speaker
and the Tassie family estate, even today, benefits financially. have Okay. Or four, Felix de Tassie was executed and and as punishment for the pain inflicted on the king on December the 21st, 1687. Let's do with the last one, because that seems like really specific.
00:51:07
Speaker
No, it's number two, anal surgical procedures became fashionable but amongst the Versailles elite. It was inundated with appointments. I'm not going to have to put so many warnings on this quiz.
00:51:28
Speaker
It's a bit of what's it called, x-rated, this quiz. Yeah, yeah ah Jesus. I mean, I had yeah um complaints when we had the whole Jesus Farskin thing.
00:51:44
Speaker
Yes, ah really comp complained I get I'm gonna get complaints about about about this.
00:51:53
Speaker
What real complaints or joking with complaints? What? But it was true. I think happens with a bunch of people is is that they they just like their little jolly lives going along.
00:52:13
Speaker
And they're like, oh, OK, in a second. We're now talking about really kind of nuts. Let's put it on the title, the theme of of shame spires and the X rated quiz. So people know before they open it up. That's all I'm saying is is is the front end. I'm just going to insert something that kind of says warning warning people.
00:52:41
Speaker
If you're in a nice, comfortable, lovely little place, maybe... Yeah, blue might be required. Well, I came out a loser. I skipped a good for numbers. You came out a snoozer loser. I did snooze and I lost. Ah, all right. Amazing though, right. Anal surgical procedure became...
00:53:12
Speaker
Fashionable. Love that shit. Yeah.
Podcast Conclusion and Listener Thanks
00:53:15
Speaker
Love that. All right. We can we can we can stop using those those those words now. Yeah. We can just we can just move along. I am. Let's pick up the post. Yeah. And yeah, let's get back to some structure. Let's do that. Let's get back to some sanity.
00:53:41
Speaker
um
00:53:44
Speaker
We get back in the car, do we? I think we'll do it here. I think... No? Okay, it's let's pretend we're actually in the Post Office. We're in the Post Office, Martin. No, we're not. So, this is at this point, I say to our listeners... No, no, we're just going to deal with the Post in the Mayor's office.
00:54:04
Speaker
OK, OK. Your feedback is vital to us. Absolutely. We read all of your comments and we might even read yours out in a future podcast. I think we have some, don't we? I've got one from one of our earlier guests, Michael, who's like...
00:54:25
Speaker
Oh, hello, Michael. Who's on TikTok, who is known as Autistically Me, or... Autistic Lime. He says, I love your podcast, but the service I was using stopped. And then... I was having problems with YouTube. Ugg. And then I love you guys such an original show and hilarious. So I'm kind of. We love you, Michael. OK, what? There is no problem. I don't know. It's on his end. So he's having. OK, he's got a techie issue, having a techie issue.
00:55:13
Speaker
OK, OK. Because, yeah, you can watch us, the lucky people. You can watch us. You can see our faces on YouTube. Exactly. Which now seems like a perfect moment to say um if I can click things and get things there to be where I'm. I need the outro music.
00:55:35
Speaker
um that ADHDville. ADHDville is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us most magnificent. I was trying to think of something about the the quiz and then i then i yeah I'd say the back out. yeah
00:56:00
Speaker
And... Oh yeah. Feel free to correspond at will in the comments. But wait, there's more. If you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces, send it off to the YouTubes and the TikToks. You can also pick up a quill and email us at adhdville at email.com. But in the meantime, be fucking kind to yourself.
00:56:26
Speaker
And I beseech you in fair the wasties, Know thyself, sons of the helms, Come hither and get the flesh.