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"More Than a Friend" with Rachel Blackston and Maryhelen Martens
266 Plays1 year ago
What happens when a friend crosses the threshold of intimacy and becomes something more? Rachel Blackston and Maryhelen Martens speak openly on spaces of care and longing when friends meet us or fail to meet us in the midst of our deepest needs. Their conversation traverses memories of sisterhood, grief, and comfort as well as tentative hopes for the present. If you need a kind look at self care when it comes to the deepest moments of friendship, this is a conversation for you to tune into.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Tracy Johnson, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. This season, we tackle the messy truths of friendship. I'm excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table. This week on the podcast, you get to listen in on a conversation between Mary Helen Martins and Rachel Blackstone.
00:00:26
Speaker
These two women are incredibly gifted at tuning in to what a storyteller is sharing, and you'll hear it in their conversation with one another.
Stories of Friendship: Courage and Honesty
00:00:36
Speaker
They are tender, they are kind, they are warm and welcoming, and I think you're really gonna enjoy listening to them as they share two very different stories with one another on this week's prompt around more than a friend.
00:00:53
Speaker
Hi, Mary Helen. Good to see you. It's good to see you too. Such a joy to be able to join on this conversation about friendship. I know. What a great topic. I'm glad they chose that. Yeah. Yeah. Would you like to read yours first? Sure. I would love to.
Road Trip Reflections: Rachel and Kathy
00:01:13
Speaker
Beams of sunlight brightens the red rocks. Their ruddy tones stood in stark contrast to the cobalt sky.
00:01:21
Speaker
With a paper map from the rental car company sprawled across my lap, I navigated us up I-17 from Phoenix to the Grand Canyon. We were both 24 and craved wide open spaces, but had very little cash. We were thrilled when we found a Southwest flight from Orlando to Phoenix for under $200. This is breathtaking, I said with giddiness as I shuffled the dial to the local Christian radio station.
00:01:47
Speaker
I could sing of your love forever. I could sing of your love forever. I belted out these lyrics in between a chatter of asking questions and telling stories. Kathy was deep in reflection, an artist with an eye for beauty and mystery. The desert landscape captivated her. She had recently gone through a difficult breakup and her melancholy tone was distinct from my boisterous sanguinism.
00:02:13
Speaker
Her energy was like the sacred mesas lining the horizon, while mine was like the cheerful and dazzling blue sky. I looked over at her and noticed she was mustering the courage to say something. Rachel, could you please stop talking? Oh my gosh, okay. Yes, of course.
Support in Crisis: Vulnerability and Care
00:02:35
Speaker
A tad flustered, I turned off the radio and began to sit with my own body.
00:02:39
Speaker
there was a safety in our relationship that kept me from spiraling into shame. As I sat with myself, I noticed how it was both jarring and intriguing for Kathy to ask for a need. I didn't realize how much noise I lived with and how much shame I carry over asking for something as simple as some quiet during a scenic car ride. I came from a family who valued strength and independence. I was a woman who drove alone to the emergency room when I was having respiratory issues.
00:03:10
Speaker
and hoisted overstuffed carry-on bags into the overhead bins with a need to exude self-reliance. This trip was 20 years ago and we didn't have categories for my Enneagram 2 or her Enneagram 4. Still today, I hold gratitude for the way Kathy regularly invites me to stop and notice the pace of my body and offer care to myself. We got married to our husbands just two weeks apart from each other
00:03:39
Speaker
She was my matron of honor and I was her maid of honor.
Friendship vs. Romantic Love: A Reflection
00:03:43
Speaker
My first three years of marriage to Michael were marked by both joy and tumult. Our trauma stories collided and I had very little ability to know or communicate my own needs amidst vacillating blowups and distance. I felt powerless and desperate amidst his addiction. For a reprieve, I spent the night at Kathy and Matt's house. When my body got a taste,
00:04:08
Speaker
Of safety, I began to feel all that I was containing. I woke up terrified, not knowing if our marriage would make it. I felt a desire to wake Kathy up so that I didn't have to bear the torture of this feeling and isolation, but my body felt paralyzed in fear. It was 2 a.m. Tediously, inch by inch, like climbing the Grand Canyon midday, I made my way to Kathy and Matt's bedroom.
00:04:37
Speaker
I'm really scared, I whispered as I roused her out of deep sleep. Kathy came over to their spare bedroom and stroked my hair for an hour, weeping with me, speaking words of comfort, preying on her knees beside me, beckoning God for healing and restoration. As a little girl, I never woke my parents up in the middle of the night. But this night with Kathy changed something in me. This moment was an instance of remothering.
00:05:04
Speaker
repairing my deep vow to never be weak and reminding the nerve endings in my skin how good touch feels. Through my friendship with Kathy and several other dear friends, I have carved out new tracks in my brain that move from fear and overwhelm to care and goodness. In a world that idolizes our need for romantic love, the sacred gift of friendship is often overlooked. Proverbs said, friends come and friends go, but a true friend sticks by you like family.
00:05:35
Speaker
A deep, faithful friend that holds both sacrificial love and the ability to receive care is a picture of what we are made for. What a beautiful friendship you have.
Sisterhood Complexities: Rejection and Hope
00:05:46
Speaker
Thank you. What are you feeling right now? As I read it, I'm feeling so grateful and yet the terror of that moment, I still feel is very near.
00:06:02
Speaker
Just what a decision that was to think, should I wake her up in the middle of the night? I really remember just there is this short distance, very, very slowly walking over there. And yet there was so much goodness that ensued from that little choice, right? It felt gigantic to me when you mentioned the inch by inch. I thought how terrifying. I was really awed by your
00:06:32
Speaker
your courage there and your desire. Yes. It's so much desire to not be isolated anymore. Yes. And that you attribute to, you know, you didn't ignore what your body was asking for. Thank you so much. The desperation and panic of the moment kind of propelled me into the moment of asking. And yet the goodness is something that has literally changed my body forever. I mean, it was such a corrective experience.
00:07:02
Speaker
just this feeling of not wanting to put somebody out, of feeling too much, of having to kind of exude the sense that I've got this. And I couldn't believe how privileged she felt for the opportunity. I mean, this wasn't something that happened every day. So to be woken up from sleep and to see just the fear on my face, the sadness, she offered such beautiful care and
00:07:32
Speaker
really felt it. I have such a distinct memory of her just stroking my hair and shedding tears and holding me. And I don't have many memories of something like that as a little girl. So to have that as an adult, a young adult was so powerful. Absolutely. Like I really, I had tears, you know, just listening to that because that's just such a beautiful picture of mothering. You obviously had to feel so
00:08:02
Speaker
so much safety with her that had been ghost. Yeah. Because that was very, very intimate. It was so intimate. And I think that it almost takes my breath away thinking about the intimacy of that moment. And yet again, I think I was at such a place. It was like I was opened up to just this knee. It was just kind of gutted and terrified and disoriented. After you made that move,
00:08:30
Speaker
Do you notice a change right away in your ability to receive care or was it something you had to do many times? That's such a great question. I mean, I think there was probably some aftermath of kind of feeling so vulnerable wanting to like contain everything back up the next morning. But honestly, the reality is that something that was undeniable happened. I can never really fully go back to what life was like before that moment.
00:08:58
Speaker
There had been some preparation for this. Like when she asked me to stop talking in the car. I noticed right away the shame you felt, but then you also were intrigued. I really was. I remember that like feeling really embarrassed and kind of like boisterous and I didn't even really realize it. And then the moment to kind of go back to my body and be like, wow, that was kind of okay. Like we'd survived that moment. In fact, we,
00:09:24
Speaker
We laugh about that story, like the toast at my wedding. We told that story. In a lot of ways, there was a sweetness about it. It was also this deflection from kind of this own inner space, which she was very well versed in kind of getting into her inner space. And I was not. Yeah, she put language to that, it sounds like for the, you know, or she started to invite you to your body. Yes. Yes.
00:09:48
Speaker
And it sounds like she still does that for you. She does. She really does. I mean, there are so many moments. She's a somatic therapist. There are so many moments today still that she just invites me back into my body. And it's changed me. It really has. It's been really beautiful. Yeah. And one thing I was thinking about was this whole idea of covenants of friendship.
00:10:14
Speaker
even this idea that we put so much emphasis, I think, in the church on romantic love, it really narrows something when we do that. Yes. And yeah, just thinking even about my single friends and how much friendships can be a place of
00:10:36
Speaker
life, beauty, sanctification, you know, living out our calling. I mean, it's just, there's so much to our friendships.
Healing Family Dynamics: Mary Helen's Journey
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm just curious of what, what your thoughts are on that. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I'm married, but there's so many places that that relationship can't fill, you know, and it's just like, yeah, it's a shame when we kind of discount or even kind of put those relationships aside when we marry or when we have a partner.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I love that you highlighted that. Yeah. There's no way that we can't do life without friends. I was really inspired to just by the, the risk you took. Like for me, I'm just looking into the next week and my life is going to be filled with a lot of shifts and some tense conversations with some people. And I just thought I really want a risk to put in place. Like where do I need care? Where can I ask for that? Or where can I choose that? Yeah.
00:11:35
Speaker
I really appreciated that. I want to borrow some of your courage. I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that to let that resonate. And I feel so seen Mary Helen. Well, do you feel ready to enter into your story? I'm sure that would be good. I think sister friendship.
00:12:04
Speaker
It's uncomfortable to put those words together in a sentence. Some grown sisters are thick as thieves, loyal, playful, and each other's biggest allies. I've often been jealous of those types of sister friendships. Other sister friendships are more like my own, complicated, hurtful, and difficult to traverse. My friendship with my sister has been deeply marred.
00:12:30
Speaker
We live in the same state and over the last decade we've seen or communicated with each other a handful of times. The loss of this once perceived pal has caused me massive grief. I felt powerless to change a thing. As I pondered our relationship, I think we got off to a bad start. She was my first friend and five years older. There were two treasured boys before her and one baby lost at birth after her.
00:13:00
Speaker
I wonder how she felt as my arrival approached. Did she anticipate a close bond? Would I steal the meager attention she relied on from our middle-aged parents? I showed up a sparkling blue-eyed darling in the apple of my father's eyes. I somehow found my way to catch my father's limited gaze. I always longed to play with my sister.
00:13:26
Speaker
As a fourth grader trying to find my place in the neighborhood girl group, I was lonely. Across from our stone house with the big porch lived my favorite friend Lou. She was also the youngest in her family, and everyone called her a tomboy. She wore jeans, had a pixie haircut, and excelled at sports. Lou was esteemed by my sister. One especially painful day for me started out quite typically. The moment I awoke,
00:13:54
Speaker
I began looking for a playmate. By the time I walked out of our front door, I noticed that I had already lost my chance to play with Lou. My sister was heading down our street on the new green Schwinn 5-speed she had received for her birthday, and Lou was following after her. I wanted to join them, so I grabbed my junky blue bike. It was cool enough with the banana seat and curly handlebars.
00:14:22
Speaker
I knew immediately that they were trying to ditch me. They were riding fast and I had to pedal hard to catch them. I wanted to be welcomed so badly that I sped down the steep hill desperately crying out, wait for me, I want to play. They flew down the slope trying to get away. I felt defeated, but I was determined to catch them. I raced down the hill nearing them when they stopped abruptly. I squealed my brakes to a halt.
00:14:53
Speaker
My sister turned her bike around and faced me with a stern look that let me know that I was making her life miserable. She then spoke out loud the words that we all knew were true. I don't want to play with you. I want to play with Lou. She's much cooler than you. The rejection felt crushing. I dropped my head toward the ground, spun my bike around, and sluggishly began to ride back up the hill.
00:15:22
Speaker
I felt myself choke as the tears flowed like a river down my cheeks. We never spoke of it again. I've spent hours unpacking the origins of that painful memory and other fissures of my relationship with my sister. Over the last years, I've held an ache with scant hope for reconciliation. I've doubted if mutual repair would ever happen.
00:15:51
Speaker
an opportunity for some engagement has come about and I'm confused about how I feel. The longing for my sister as a playmate is still deep and I wonder why it matters so much to me. Will restoration occur? Will we ever understand the setup that began when we were children or unpack the circumstances that led to envy, judgments and rejection between us? I long for newness between us
00:16:21
Speaker
but I cannot deny the pain I have felt. My sister hosts a reunion in a few short weeks and has invited me. I have trepidation, but I plan to attempt. Will we ever want to play again or is it too late? I have many questions and few answers, but one thing I know is this, I've never lost hope and I no longer want to play the way we used to.
00:16:53
Speaker
Thank you. How was that for you, sharing that story? I was well, and then when I got to the end, I got real sad. I felt a little shaky, even in my body a little bit. Yeah, I heard your voice tremble a little bit. And yeah, what do you make of that? I was surprised. I thought I might have some tears or something during the actual story story where, you know, when I was
00:17:23
Speaker
And I didn't feel that as much as the recent years. So that surprised me. Yeah, Mary Helen, I mean, I lost my breath thinking about you moving back into going to this reunion. And yet, oh my, the courage and the hope that has never died. I mean, tenacious hope. There's a little girl that was, gosh, so gritty. I mean, too.
00:17:50
Speaker
jump on your beat up bike and pedal as fast as you can to catch up. I mean, I was so drawn to her. She had a lot of desire and kind of awed at how aggressively she wanted connection, which speaks to her lack of connection in her home. She was so starving. Yes. I feel like the deprivation of
00:18:17
Speaker
literally the sense that Lou was it. Your sister's favorite friend and your favorite friend. And I'm just thinking like, oh my. Yeah. She was the only safe friend in the neighborhood. I had some dangerous friends in the neighborhood, but she was the one that was just pure and like just playful.
00:18:43
Speaker
I was so struck by a couple of lines, Mary Helen. The first line is this idea that there's so much to this notion of we had a bad start. It's such a profound line because it's not about the story of the bike. It's like, oh, the bad start.
00:19:06
Speaker
Your lines say so much and they stirred so much curiosity of this idea that would I steal the meager attention she relied on from my middle-aged parents. Yeah. That's where I can really empathize with her. When we first had the fissure where there was no more conversation, you know, I was angry and hurt, but now, you know, the more I understand the setup,
00:19:34
Speaker
in our family, the more I see like how I just kind of stole any little bit of attention she had, I think, which just gives me a ton of empathy toward, you know, young her. Yeah, that's what I felt like your parents were all throughout the story, but sort of not named other than just a couple lines of the story. Yeah, there's definitely a reason why I think we were
00:20:04
Speaker
We got a bad start. Yeah. Didn't change much. Yeah. There's a lot around me. My dad's favorite. There was a big cost to that. Yeah. And the funny thing about that is right. As a child.
00:20:21
Speaker
There wasn't a whole lot I did to, I wasn't trying to get that, I just was. You were just being you, like this precious little blue eyed girl that had all this grit that jumped on her bike, you know, that was going after a relationship, but somehow maybe that, I was just curious if that kind of got seen as, I don't know, you somehow kind of maneuvering to get that or? In many of my stories that I remember,
00:20:51
Speaker
showing up caused me a lot of harm. So for sure, that is a thematic thing for me. So to step into places is risky. To use my voice is risky. Yeah. I know you may not have thought much about this, but even as you talk about this reunion and your decision to go, I feel cautious hope for you because there's been so much pain.
00:21:18
Speaker
but I was just thinking kind of as the setup fades away a bit. Oh, like what does adult Mary Helen who loves inviting people to play and has a deep heart and wants to take up space and what does that look like? It gives me an imagination for it, but I feel cautious for you for sure. Yeah. I think there's both something that I'm really going to take away from your story in the coming
00:21:48
Speaker
week and maybe like years is just this idea of taking just a courageous inch by inch that you shared. It doesn't have to be this mile long big jump, just an inch by inch by inch to get me to the care that I need. I think I'm going to hold onto that for a long time. And I just appreciate that you shared that in your story because it's something I can visualize and I can picture.
00:22:18
Speaker
And I think it's really going to be a gift to me. And I really take from you this bravery to not bury a longing. Thinking about some relationships in my life where it has been easier to cut off because there's been pain and thinking about the places of
00:22:44
Speaker
Allowing desire, allowing hope to emerge in the midst of pain. I think that the repair, I mean, I hope for good things for you and your sister, but I was thinking even if it's just about how you come to the table, kind of having that as a paradigm for myself, that repair and corrective experiences doesn't necessarily have to end in like a different relational result.
00:23:08
Speaker
but the way that my body comes, the way that my heart, my energy, the way that I kind of even care for myself internally in the midst of a difficult circumstances. So thank you. Thank you for that.
Conclusion: Courage in Friendship
00:23:23
Speaker
Those were two very different stories that Rachel and Mary Helen told and yet as they listened to one another and reflected back and forth with one another I could hear some of the themes that began to emerge and one of those that I heard was really this theme of
00:23:45
Speaker
courage and bravery and how much it takes in relationship. Those two things are so necessary. I loved how Rachel talked about covenants of friendship and that they can be places of life and beauty and sanctification and just what a sacred gift friendship is.
00:24:06
Speaker
And I also loved Mary Helen's honesty about the fact that sister friendship can just be complicated and can be a place where there is the need for repair. As I think about what I'm going to be taking out of
00:24:22
Speaker
this conversation between the two of them this week. I think the thing that stuck with me was the description that the two of them had for sort of the inch by inch bravery that Rachel exhibited as she made her way down the hallway to cry out to her friend for help. And as Mary Helen picked up on that
00:24:45
Speaker
and talked about where she was gonna borrow some courage from that. I thought, you know, me too. I love that idea that inch by inch could be enough. Sometimes we can't go any further than that. That's the thing I'm gonna be thinking about this week. I hope you found something that you'll be thinking about too and we will see you next week. The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by Katie Stafford.
00:25:15
Speaker
Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson and our guests are all part of the Red Tent Living community. You can find us all at redtentliving.com as well as on Facebook and Instagram. If you love the stories shared here, we would be thrilled if you left us a review. Until next week, love to you, dear ones.