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Daniel Roytas on the Fallacies of Vitamin Deficiencies, Root Causes, Supplementation, and so much more.
1.6k Plays2 years ago
This week, we are joined by Daniel Roytas from Humanely to discuss many fascinating topics! Daniel is not shy about pushing back on modern conclusions and provides fresh, logical takes on ever-seen observations. Daniel addresses what health means to him but also tackles the question: What is disease?
This leads us into a much deeper dive into topics such as the true causes of disease. Daniel provides a beautiful explanation as to why vitamin deficiencies do not have much evidence to back them up and may not be a cause of disease. We go over the specifics of how 'deficiencies' actually manifest as toxicities.
We cover specific examples such as Pellagra (16:30), Beriberi (20:20), Scurvy (28:50), etc.
We delve into the differences between minerals and vitamins and how vitamins may not actually exist in natural products. Vitamins may be much like viruses, in that they are laboratory artifacts.
We also talk about our soils and the problems in our modern agricultural practices. This leads us into discussing food processing and the optimal human diet.
This is a significant episode! I hope it provides insight and areas for further research for you all!
I hope you enjoy it!
Transcript
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Transcript
Introduction to Daniel Roytuss
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Beyond Train Podcast. We have a very special guest today, Mr. Daniel Roytuss. I've listened to Daniel for a couple of years now. He's got a great podcast, humanely. One of the podcasts that was a little inspirational for me. And yeah, this guy has a super fresh take on the train paradigm. And I really appreciate his work and everything that he's doing.
Understanding Health Issues
00:00:29
Speaker
You know, I was
00:00:31
Speaker
when I was looking into the terrain and, uh, getting, you know, a little deeper into my studies. And one of the things that was holding me back was mold. And, uh, Mr. Reuters here definitely gave a clear outline on, on why that wasn't the case. And, um, why, why mold is definitely not the root of the cause. And, um, yeah, I mean, thus far I haven't been able to disprove it. So, you know, um, but beyond that, uh, he has so much, so much great insight. Um,
00:01:01
Speaker
So yeah, I'm super excited about this chat today. Daniel, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks, Liev. I'm pleased to be here to speak with you. Thank you for the opportunity. Definitely, yeah. So I asked one of my guests at the start, I asked a general question, what is health? And it's kind of a personal answer. And so what does it mean to you? What does it feel like? What does it look like? I like to ask this question because it gives us a good baseline to work off of. So yeah, what does health mean to you?
00:01:31
Speaker
It's an interesting question and I know that a lot of people have posed this over the years and certainly more so in recent times. I was actually having a discussion with a group of people today about this very topic.
Perception and Health
00:01:45
Speaker
So it's uncanny that you should bring this question up. I think health is a feeling.
00:01:55
Speaker
So you may not, at first glance or at face value, really understand what that means. But when you go to your doctor and there's something not right, what do you usually say to your doctor? Yeah, I don't feel well. I don't feel well. I feel like there's something wrong. So we describe ill health as a feeling.
00:02:25
Speaker
We can feel pain or discomfort, or there might be something psychologically we don't feel is right. We might have anxiety or depression. We might feel our heart beating in our chest or our blood pressure going up, or we might feel itching or something like this. And when you're feeling sick, what is it that you want to achieve? Want those symptoms to be gone?
00:02:56
Speaker
Why do you want those symptoms to be gone? So that you feel good, both in your body, in your mind, spiritually, mentally, emotionally. So it's a feeling that we're after. So the feeling of wellbeing, the feeling of joy, the feeling of happiness, the feeling of not having any pain. We should be able to live relatively comfortably and not experience pain in our day to day life.
00:03:28
Speaker
So it is the feeling that we're chasing. And this is why people take painkiller medications and certain medications is to dull the pain because they don't want to feel it. And this to me is sort of the closest explanation I can come to as to what health is because
00:03:56
Speaker
It doesn't matter what you look at in a blood test or go to your doctor and they do a barrage of tests. How many times have you heard people going into their doctor? They feel fine. They're going in for a health check. Doctor runs a bunch of tests and comes back and goes, oh, geez, I'm really sorry, Mr. Smith. I've got some bad news for you. He goes, what are you talking about? I feel fine.
00:04:23
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. These blood tests tell us otherwise. So then you change that person's state of mind from feeling well to, oh my God, there's something wrong with me. And then it all goes downhill from there. Right? So if you, if that person didn't go to their doctor and they never had the blood test done, would there be a problem? Maybe, maybe if it went left unchecked, something would develop. But at that very point, they felt fine.
00:04:54
Speaker
So when you have a disease, that is what you're trying to achieve. And one thing that I think is, I'm just getting a bit of feedback there.
Mental Perception in Healing
00:05:05
Speaker
I might just, I should just put my sound down. Sorry. Okay. So one thing that we must take into account when we're trying to heal ourselves is to feel
00:05:24
Speaker
the feeling of wellness even if you're not feeling great. So you want to try and recreate that feeling of what would it feel like when I am healthy. You try and recreate that feeling inside you and that
00:05:39
Speaker
then start you on your journey back to good health because you can do all the right things. You can eat well, exercise, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you never truly believe that you can heal and you don't ever manifest or recreate that feeling of what good health feels like, you'll never get there. So that's my take on it. It's a little bit different, but yeah, it's a good question. Thanks for asking. Well, thanks for that beautiful answer.
00:06:07
Speaker
It is a different take. I've never heard before, but, uh, you're articulated so very well and just what, yeah, I, that was really amazing answer. I think, um, and just your approach to, to how you, how you explain it to just makes a lot of sense. Right. Because you also see the other side of the coin, you know, people feel unwell and then they go and they get the,
00:06:34
Speaker
blood tests and everything's fine. Maybe that's the positive affirmation they needed to feel well. And they're, oh, you know what? I'm fine. And then they start feeling well. And so then we start thinking of what role the mind plays in disease and wellbeing as well. So of course it's all connected for sure. Well, here's just another thing to consider, Liv. Yeah.
00:07:02
Speaker
is that the counter or the opposite to health is disease. So when we ask the question, what is disease? That's when things really start getting interesting. Because disease is actually healing.
Reevaluating Disease Causes
00:07:29
Speaker
It is the body in a state of an active state of either trying to return back to balance or trying to maintain some semblance of homeostasis in a less than optimal situation.
00:07:49
Speaker
So for example, think of disease, like think of your body as a body of water. And if you drop a stone into the water, what happens? A ripple effect of destruction. You get the ripples. Yeah. So the ripples are the effect of dropping the stone into the water.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, they are the effect. They are the symptoms of dropping the stone into that body of water. And what are those symptoms or what is that? What are the ripples there for? What are they trying to do? Because balance out. Yeah. Because you create the disturbance first.
00:08:42
Speaker
And then the rock is gone. The rock's at the bottom of the pond. It's out of sight. So the rock is the cause of the disease. It's there for a moment. It causes the imbalance, the dysfunction, and then it's gone. And then you get the effect after that, which is the ripples in the water. And we see that, and we feel that, and we experience that, and we misattribute the symptoms which are actually the body's healing response as the disease itself.
00:09:13
Speaker
So these are things like something easy for people to understand is like heart disease. So we get elevated blood pressure, we get inflammation, we get a rapid heartbeat, for example, maybe elevated cholesterol. Those things aren't the disease.
00:09:35
Speaker
They are all the body's mechanisms of protecting itself. So the cholesterol the body produces to protect itself against the threat, whatever it is that's causing damage to the cardiovascular system. Now the arteries aren't so elastic. They can't allow the, well, they don't allow the blood to move through it as well. So there's reduced perfusion of the blood to the peripheral tissue. So now the heart has to work harder
00:10:04
Speaker
to achieve that. So what happens when you have impaired flow, the blood pressure goes up. And then we see the inflammation, all these inflammatory markers, we say, oh, the inflammation is a problem. The inflammation is the body's healing response. The inflammation is the so-called immune system coming along to repair the damaged tissue.
00:10:26
Speaker
It is not the cause of disease. These are all the symptoms, the consequences of the rock that got dropped into the water, which might be you've been a pack of day smoker for 30 years, or you've had chronic stress, or you're eating a processed and refined diet, or you've been poisoned, or whatever it might be. The underlying cause is the problem.
00:10:50
Speaker
And then everything else from that point on that we experience as human beings is the body's healing response trying to get back to a state of homeostasis imbalance. Yeah. Well put once again. That's great. So I guess the question I want to ask is causes of disease. There's only three.
00:11:21
Speaker
There's not thousands, like we're told. So what are the causes of disease? There's deficiency states, toxicity, and a trauma. So that trauma can be emotional or it can be a physical trauma. So with deficiency,
00:11:47
Speaker
I'm not talking about vitamin deficiencies here, because I don't think those things actually exist. Which is a big claim, but we'll hopefully get into discussing that. By deficiency, I mean a deficiency in clean water, a deficiency in physical activity, a deficiency in love, a deficiency in sunlight, a deficiency of connection to the earth, a deficiency of
00:12:19
Speaker
all of these kinds of essential things that a human being needs to survive. So if you don't have one of those things, there's going to be a consequence and the body will have to develop symptoms to try and maintain homeostasis. We also have toxicity. So we're just talking about literally poisoning here or excess of something. So too much water, too much sun,
00:12:47
Speaker
I don't know if you can get too much love, but maybe you can. So it's like the opposite to the things that I just mentioned about deficiency. And then trauma. So you fall off a ladder and break your leg while you're painting the house, or maybe
00:13:04
Speaker
Your best friend tells you that you're ugly and they hate you when you're 10 years of age and you carry that as an emotional disturbance for the rest of your life. And you believe that you're ugly and worthless person and holding onto those emotions manifests as a physical disease later on in life. And that's it. They are the three causes of disease. There are no others, not the thousands and thousands that mainstream medicine tells us that there are.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah, well, I had the exact same answer in my introductory episodes, literally to a T. Yeah, so now's a good time. Let's get into the vitamins. You made a bold claim there. Back it up. Yeah, I guess people who've never heard of me speak before, or even heard of who I am, just for a bit of background.
00:14:07
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, please. I would like to think I have some kind of expertise in this area. Not that that really matters when it comes to looking at science because I think anyone wants to understand the scientific method, you can apply this to any field regardless of what your level of education is and either adhere to the scientific method or it doesn't.
00:14:30
Speaker
But in addition to that, I spent over 10 years lecturing at universities and colleges around Australia. Much of that was as a senior lecturer. I developed curriculum and taught in student clinic and educated students and practitioners at a undergraduate level. I spent many years working at nutraceutical and pharmaceutical companies.
00:14:56
Speaker
I've got close to 15 years of clinical practice of authored or co-authored chapters in complementary medicine textbooks, which have been published by really well-known publication companies and publishing houses. I've done a lot in this field. And I was always under the impression that what I was teaching students and clinicians
00:15:23
Speaker
Was that there are things called vitamin deficiencies that you get.
Toxicity vs. Deficiencies
00:15:30
Speaker
When you have an improper diet and that causes disease and the best way to deal with that is to take supplement high dose.
00:15:40
Speaker
a vitamin in isolation to address the deficiency. And that was basically how I practiced for most of my career until early 2020 when I realized that I was wrong. I don't actually think there's anything called a vitamin deficiency disease. I actually think we've confused it and it's a toxicity disease. Yeah. So how, how does it,
00:16:11
Speaker
become a toxicity disease? Is there anything involved? Where's the confusion there? Yeah. So why do we think there are these things called deficiency diseases? We'll use maybe pellagra as an example. So pellagra is a so-called deficiency of vitamin B3 or niacin.
00:16:40
Speaker
and supposedly people got it when they ate lots of corn because corn is supposedly deficient in B3 and you end up with this disease where you get skin rashes and you get neurological impairment and cardiovascular problems and it can lead to death if left untreated.
00:17:08
Speaker
What happened was that they found that when people had pellagra and they started taking them off a diet that mainly consisted of corn and they fed them other foods, their disease went away.
00:17:27
Speaker
And say the scientists at the time took some food and they added a bunch of chemicals to it and say like this food reversed pellagra, say something like nutritional yeast.
00:17:47
Speaker
So they gave the yeast to people and the pellagra went away. And then they took the yeast and they added a bunch of chemicals to it and they did a whole bunch of what I call witchcraft to the substance. And they ended up with a white crystalline powder that when they gave to people with pellagra, their symptoms went away.
00:18:10
Speaker
And the claim was that the white crystalline powder that they had, after they added in things like formaldehyde and acetone and hydrochloric acid and heavy metals and petrochemicals, the addition to all of those things into the food, you end up with this white powder, you give it to the person with pellagra, symptoms go away. They equate that with whatever that white crystalline powder is must be the same thing that was in the food.
00:18:41
Speaker
So they said, well, that's a deficiency disease. You're deficient in whatever this substance is that's that is the white powder. So how is it how is it being misconstrued as a toxicity disease? What I think is going on here is that when you have a whole food
00:19:03
Speaker
and you ingest it and it's not processed, it's not refined, it's in its whole fresh form. There's everything contained within that food for the body to metabolize it completely. So you can absorb it, metabolize it, utilize it and excrete it entirely. There's no residual waste left over because the food is a complete food. It's a perfect food designed for human consumption.
00:19:32
Speaker
When we meddle with it, so by meddling with it, I mean we process, refine it, adulterate it, store it improperly, keep it for too long, don't process it or cook it in the right way. We eat that food. It's no longer in its natural state.
00:19:56
Speaker
If you process it and refine it and you strip things out of it, now the things that are lacking for that food to be metabolized 100% completely are gone. So you may only get 85% complete metabolism of that food.
00:20:16
Speaker
So now you've got 15% of this waste product in your body that's going, all right, we're waiting for the other component that was in that whole food to come along so we can metabolize it and excrete it out. So if you're only having a small amount of that, it's fine. It won't build up into high levels in your bloodstream or into your tissue. But if you're eating a lot of that processed refined food, it will build up and eventually the body's going to have to try and get rid of it somehow.
00:20:47
Speaker
So what happens in a lot of these nutritional deficiency diseases is we see vomiting and diarrhea and skin diseases like skin rashes and dermatitis and this kind of thing, which are all symptoms of poisoning.
Historical Perspectives on Health
00:21:09
Speaker
When you get poisoned, your body produces vomiting or diarrhea, or you have things coming out through your skin to eliminate said toxin. So I think that's possibly what's happening. And this is not just pure speculation. Like there is data and research in the literature where Japanese research is actually
00:21:36
Speaker
proved that berry berry, which is a vitamin B1 deficiency, is a toxicity disease. If you're happy, we can sort of go down that route. Or if there's something else you wanted to discuss, I'll hand it back to you. Yeah. No, I mean, it might be helpful to go into another example. So why don't you continue on? That was great. Yeah. So berry berry.
00:22:06
Speaker
is supposedly a deficiency in diamond, B1. And B1 is meant to be found in the bran
00:22:19
Speaker
brand layer of rice. Now, when you take whole rice and you process it and refine it and you strip away the outer layer, you're left with the grain, the white endosperm bit, and you eat that. And what they found, scientists back in the early 1900s, was that when people subsist on a diet mainly of white rice, they get berry berry.
00:22:45
Speaker
And at the time, the actual guy who found the cure for berry berry, he's like, oh, if you eat whole brown rice, you don't get it. And it reverses the disease. Eichmann was his name, a Danish physician. He actually believes that berry berry was a toxicity disease. As did many of the people who discovered the cures to these diseases, they all thought they were toxicity diseases. But anyway,
00:23:14
Speaker
The scientists like Kasimir Funk, for example, who supposedly isolated B1 from rice, he said it was a deficiency disease.
00:23:26
Speaker
because when he got rice bran and adulterated it and added all these chemicals into it and gave it to people, their symptoms went away. So he said, well, this is the thing they're lacking. Therefore, it's a deficiency of this particular substance that's not present in white rice. The Japanese in the 20s, 30s and 40s actually believed that berry berry was a toxicity disease. And obviously it's pretty relevant
00:23:56
Speaker
for the Japanese to be looking into Berry Berry because a lot of people in that area were affected with this disease in World War I and II. Just by the very nature of it being difficult to get access to a lot of food because supply chains and things were disrupted during those times.
00:24:17
Speaker
So we have a population eating lots of white rice. The Japanese found that infants who were drinking mother's milk, they started getting berry berry. So they said, is this because there's something deficient in the milk that the child's not getting? Or is there something toxic in the milk that's causing berry berry in the infants?
00:24:45
Speaker
So they were pretty clever and they devised some controlled experiments where they took infants and then fed them other foods also devoid of vitamin B1. So they took infants who were breastfeeding, took them off the mother's milk and then fed them a diet solely of sweetened condensed milk.
00:25:11
Speaker
which supposedly has no vitamin B1 in it. Guess what happened to the berry berry? It went away. It disappeared very, very quickly, which they concluded was due to the avoidance or reduction of the toxic substance that was present in the mother's milk. So when you avoid the poison and now you start to eat a different food, of course, the symptoms are going to go away.
00:25:41
Speaker
Now, that is impossible if the current accepted paradigm of it being a deficiency disease is true, because there is no way that you can reverse a deficiency disease with another deficient diet.
00:26:02
Speaker
Um, and this wasn't the only example. There are many, many examples published in literature where they've done human controlled experiments, people with very, very Palagra, scurvy, et cetera. Uh, many dozens of these experiments actually and fed people.
00:26:22
Speaker
on deficient diets in that particular vitamin. And their pellagra just mysteriously reversed in quite a high percentage of cases, sometimes up to 50% of people. Disease went away. Again, an impossibility if it was a nutritional deficiency disease. So possibly what's happened there is they've eaten the particular product, particular food.
00:26:49
Speaker
The incomplete metabolism of that food has resulted in a buildup of a toxic metabolite or substance in their body. Then they go and eat another completely different food, which is also supposedly deficient in B1. But now, that food, it's like they're starting from scratch. Yeah? That incomplete metabolism of that food is going to start from 0% and it's going to increase over time.
00:27:19
Speaker
Whereas the toxic substance from the other food they were ingesting, which they're now not, well that slowly gets metabolized out of the body, so the symptoms go away.
00:27:29
Speaker
Now obviously if you were to stay on that diet for a prolonged period of time, that new food that you're eating is deficient, will then recreate the symptoms some point later in time. These are inconsistencies with the model that cannot be explained by it being a deficiency disease.
00:27:54
Speaker
is very different to the nutritional science that I was taught at university and what's in the textbooks. So yeah, I hope I've explained that clearly because it can be a little bit tricky to understand. Yeah, yeah. No, no, definitely. That was clear. So I have a couple of questions then. And I think I'll start with
00:28:25
Speaker
What about, okay, so let's talk about maybe minerals. What about mineral deficiencies? Like these to me seem more like base blocks, like, and maybe we could talk like about trace minerals. And, uh, cause maybe the discussion is different for something like a magnesium or, or things like this. So maybe, um, you can elaborate on your thoughts there.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, so I think there's a big difference between vitamins and minerals. I'm not convinced vitamins exist because no one's ever demonstrated the existence of a vitamin in nature. So what they do is they take some orange juice and the first thing they do is add lead acetate to it.
00:29:08
Speaker
That's the first step in isolating vitamin C. But if it's a scientific experiment, you have to control for each step along the process to show that the methodologies that are being used do not confound the end result. So that scientists have to show that the addition of lead acetate
00:29:32
Speaker
does not change the outcome of the experiment, and not once have they ever controlled for that, ever. There's not one controlled experiment that's shown there.
00:29:41
Speaker
And like this is just one step in the process. There's probably like 20 to 30 different things that they do to isolate say vitamin C, right? And you end up with this powder substance at the end. You say that's what's in the orange because when you take it, your symptoms go away. I think what's actually going on there is that it's working like a drug and drugs suppress symptoms.
00:30:07
Speaker
And remember at the start of the conversation I said the symptoms are the answer to the problem. The symptoms are the healing response. The symptoms that we see in these so-called deficiency diseases aren't the issue. So when you take the substance, you take the drug, you're getting symptom suppression. So it's very hard to actually prove
00:30:34
Speaker
the existence of a vitamin because you have to have the thing to start with to do the analysis on it to show that it actually exists. You have to have the baseline to work with.
00:30:46
Speaker
Minerals are different because I can go out into nature and I can find a rock of magnesium or some iron ore or some calcium rock or whatever it might be. These things exist in nature.
00:31:04
Speaker
So you can get your baseline and you can say, right, this is calcium, this is magnesium, this is zinc, this is iron. You've got your baseline and now I can compare that to the amounts of these things in foods. So is it worthwhile then taking a supplement of something, say like magnesium? I don't think it's worthwhile taking any supplement.
00:31:32
Speaker
regardless of whether it's a mineral or vitamin, whatever. Because as I mentioned before, food is completely metabolized when we take it as a whole substance. So you need the whole food for it to work and interface properly with the body. As soon as you start meddling with it, things start to become a problem.
00:31:59
Speaker
Magnesium, for example, is found in chlorophyll plants. Plant blood has got magnesium in it. It's like hemoglobin in human blood. It's got iron as the central mineral in the hemoglobin chain. Plants have just got magnesium in their chlorophyll molecule.
00:32:30
Speaker
Now when you eat a plant, there's everything in it for the body to absorb, metabolize and utilize everything in that plant to its full extent. So for magnesium to do its job in the body, it needs all the other 999 chemicals in that plant for it to work.
00:32:51
Speaker
If you just give magnesium, what is fantastic, we've got magnesium and now I don't have any of the other 999 things that I need that should have come with that food to use it. It's like walking up to a builder and saying, hey man, can you build me a house? Here's a hammer. Off you go.
Whole Foods vs. Supplements
00:33:13
Speaker
Like people would look at you like crazy Same thing with what we're doing to the body when we handed a single mineral and go. Okay, here you go I've sort of likened this as this is a thing called food synergy or it's also known as the food matrix Which is a concept most easily explained By The whole
00:33:43
Speaker
is greater than the sum of the parts. So let's say the food has three parts to it. Most foods have got hundreds, if not thousands of so-called chemicals in them. Let's say this one's got three. We can take the food, we can do the analysis. We find three things in it. We add them all together. One plus one plus one equals three. But in nature,
00:34:08
Speaker
It equals four or five or six or seven because there is a complex interrelationship that's going on with all those chemicals working synergistically together. They're in the right ratios at the right concentrations in the presence of the right enzymes and co-factors and everything else for that food to work perfectly in the body. If you take one out, it's not going to work.
00:34:33
Speaker
It's like a fine watch. You open up the back of a fine watch and you're going to find dozens of these cogs in the back of the watch. So a pharmacologist would come along and say, which cogs working there? Which is the one cog that works? I want to know the one substance in that food that's having the effect. Oh, it's the vitamin C. It's the magnesium. That's so reductionistic. It's none of them.
00:35:02
Speaker
It's all of them. Similarly, you can't take one cog out of the watch, go and put it into another watch that has no cogs, and expect that watch to work. This is a way to understand.
00:35:21
Speaker
the beginning of the food matrix and food synergy. And yeah, I think this probably answers now any, you could throw zinc at me or magnesium at me or calcium at me or whatever and answer it the same way. You need the whole food. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you actually answered multiple questions there in that one. So that's great. Yeah, that's, that's awesome.
00:35:51
Speaker
I guess, you know, to challenge a little bit, you know, play devil's advocate here. You know, I've looked at the state of food and the state of agriculture quite a bit. And, you know, I think there's a case to say that our soils are deficient. And, you know, you might have a different take on this.
00:36:18
Speaker
It certainly seems like with the monocultures that we've kind of, that the food may be deficient since the soil is deficient. Now you may be able to work that through a little different, but also with the hybridization of plants, that we've kind of changed the state of plants. I wonder what are your thoughts on that? Because, you know, in my mind, I think there's no doubt that, you know, a carrot a thousand years ago is definitely different than a carrot now, right?
00:36:47
Speaker
So, you know, has the, like, like, is this something that's problematic in your mind or has the food just caught up or, or, you know, does it depend on how it's grown? Like maybe, uh, if the carrot has grown in the deficient environment, you know, it creates the imbalance within the food already. So the plant as a being itself is a little bit toxic and then moving through us as well. I wonder what your take on that is.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, so it's a good question. Some people say they want to take whole food supplements, right? Because the soil is deficient. So what, you're just going to take 50 deficient carrots and then powder them down. And now you've got a powder of 50 deficient carrots. It still doesn't address the problem, which is your right. Like the soil is being destroyed. Um, but.
00:37:49
Speaker
we can deal with this problem. We can't deal with it as long as these things called vitamin pills stand in the way because it's a red herring. Yeah. This is a slight of hand trick where they say that the food is deficient. So a way that we can address this is we've got the answer. And the answer is these shiny little pills that we can give you to address the deficiency. But if it's a toxicity disease,
00:38:20
Speaker
that argument doesn't hold weight anymore. And I guarantee that people, the essential problem is, the cause of the problem is that we're using pesticides, herbicides and fungicides.
00:38:34
Speaker
We're not planting crops the way we used to. We're doing monocrop farming. We're not rotating crops. We're not planting food plants with other companion plants and just doing things the way we used to do it. We're not putting animals in on the land and getting them to fertilize it and whatever. So by very virtue of doing those things, plants start to get sick and they put signals out to pests and whatever and the pests come to break them down to return them to the soil. So the pests aren't the issue.
00:39:04
Speaker
They tell us they have the issue, and if they are the issue, then you use the pesticides, right, to fix the problem. But if you do things the right way, you don't need pesticides and herbicides and all this nonsense. So those things deplete the soil. Those things are poisonous, and they leach into the food that you eat. And then naturally, you're going to need more of the good stuff in food to get rid of the poisonous stuff that you're eating.
00:39:33
Speaker
And I think people have accepted the way that modern agriculture has gone because they're under the impression that, oh, it's not so bad. It's just that my food just doesn't have quite enough of what it should have in it. Whereas if they knew that actually we're messing with the food and it's having a much different effect in my body and it's causing it poisoning or toxicity, people wouldn't stand for that as much. It's not as easy to sell.
00:40:03
Speaker
Right? You're being poisoned rather than, ah, you're just deficient. So this is, it's kind of like supplements are kind of like if you move to Hawaii and you built your house on a lava flow.
00:40:23
Speaker
And this guy comes to you and he says, hey, you know what? Your house is probably going to catch fire at some point. So I've got some really, really amazing buckets. They're the best buckets and they can hold an extra two liters in the stuff you get down the road.
00:40:43
Speaker
That's what we're doing with supplements. There's a problem and the problem is we're effing with Mother Nature and she's going to fight back and bite back hard. Where does turning a blind eye and going, that's all right. It's fine. We just got the supplement man. Just take that. It addresses the deficiency. We're not looking at the cause of the problem. We're not saying, hey, maybe we shouldn't build our house on the lava flow. Maybe we should move the house completely. We don't even need the buckets.
00:41:12
Speaker
It's the same thing. If we look at the true cause of the problem and we go, right, we don't need pesticides. We don't need herbicides. We do not need fungicides. We don't need antibiotics. We don't need any of this crap. When the soil is healthy, when things grow where they should be grown, when we harness Mother Nature and work with her rather than against her, all of these problems sort themselves out.
00:41:39
Speaker
When we put animals on the land, the animals take the plants and they put it through their digestive system and they put out fertilizer.
Ancestral Eating Practices
00:41:45
Speaker
They wee and poo and they put the fertilizer back in. The plants get healthy. They don't need these other things. We have certain trees growing that send roots really far down into the soil. And they start pulling up nutrients from deep, deep down near the bedrock. So we get this flow of minerals and things from the rock upwards into the upper layers of the soil.
00:42:10
Speaker
The water holds soil better. Sorry, the soil holds water better. It doesn't become as dehydrated as easily. So you don't have to come along and now water the soil and start causing erosion and you get underground unnatural water flows that cause erosion and things and it messes up the whole system. All these problems go away.
00:42:32
Speaker
when we stop relying on the pill, on the vitamin, on the supplement, because it forces our hand to deal with the problem, to deal with the underlying cause. So hopefully that answers your question. Yeah. Yeah. And, and like, um, so kind of my thinking, uh, based on that as like, you know, it's not,
00:42:59
Speaker
the food being deficient, that's the problem. It's the processing of the food that's the problem. And the same as it's not the soil being deficient, that's the problem. It's the processing of the soil in a way, right? Like the way that we approach agriculture now, right? Like we've gotten so far away from a natural design of like perhaps something like a permaculture would be closer to what nature intends, right? Because you have the different root levels and we're growing these massive monocultures
00:43:29
Speaker
Um, and it's funny because, you know, there are rocks in the soil, right? There are rocks in the field and rocks are minerals and they have trace minerals and they, you know, they're just inaccessible from plants directly as well. So, you know, we know like this is a very known thing that microbes are a very necessary component of mineral uptake in plants as well. Um, so what happens when.
00:43:59
Speaker
you know, you have 10 generations of glyphosate killing microbes in the soil, well, then the plants can't access the minerals either, right? So it's a disconnection as well. And same with like fungicides, like I'm sure they're non-specific to the one that we consider a pest, right? But you know, the fungus, we know that fungus, or you know, we know,
00:44:28
Speaker
some scientists demonstrate that fungus may be able to communicate between trees and share nutrients in that manner. And I'm sure that when you have a tree whose roots go so far down next to a food source, you know, that you have greater fungal connections in the soil, you have, you can access the minerals and the, you know, so I think it's just a, like you said in the, um, like you've been saying, right? It's,
00:44:56
Speaker
It's about how we're preparing the food and processing the food. And it's, it's also how we're going about farming. So I think you did a great job explaining that, that, that really, um, really, really is great. So, um, is there any type of processing that's, that's acceptable? Cause you know, like when you cook your food, you're processing, right? So, um, we've talked a lot about, uh, consuming raw meat and the benefits of that and raw, you know, raw milk and,
00:45:24
Speaker
Raw animal products was a big, big topic for us. Um, you know, because it's, it's funny, everyone will admit that raw honey is better for you. But then when you talk about raw meat being better for you, people kind of go, Oh, well, that's unacceptable. But, you know, um, how, how can, like, is, what, what are your thoughts on that? Like, is that an acceptable way like to process food, like to cook it, or, um, even what about a fermentation or, uh,
00:45:51
Speaker
you know, like even like a sourdough bread, is that a better way to access nutrients or you know, is that a helpful thing? Maybe you can elaborate on a couple of those examples. This sort of cuts to the point of what is the optimal human diet and how should we compare it? Really. Yeah. And you know, I think all of this stuff is actually very, very simple. And I think all of the answers
00:46:21
Speaker
So the questions that we seek have already been answered for us by our ancestors. I don't think we have to rediscover the wheel here. I really don't. I think all we need to do is look at
00:46:35
Speaker
Where did we come from? What is our family lineage? What did my great grandparents do and theirs before them and theirs before them to survive in the environment where they were living? What foods did they eat? What foods were local and seasonal to that area?
00:46:55
Speaker
Say, these principles, we hear about them all the time, right? Local seasonal, fresh, prepared fresh, eaten quickly after they've been harvested, whatever. We hear them, but we don't actually give them any credence.
00:47:13
Speaker
Because when you're living in a certain area, you're obviously excreting waste, sweat and skin cells and hair and feces and urine, and that would all be going back into the soil. So then that feeds the plants in the area that you and your family and tribe live in. And then Mother Nature is like, hey, thanks for that. We're going to give it right back to you. So it's cycle.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah, mother nature gives you what you need and you give her what she needs. That cycle is perfect and it just goes on and on and on and on and on. But if you then start to go and eat something from 5,000 kilometres away, it's been put in deep freebies and shipped on an ocean liner and then put into a truck and then sent to you.
00:48:09
Speaker
You're now getting all of the things in that food that was designed for someone living 3,000 or 5,000 kilometers away. You're not getting the things that you need to maintain balance in the place that you're living in. So there's now an imbalance.
00:48:27
Speaker
So, causing disharmony, causing disruption, causing dis-ease to the whole cycle, not just your body, but the mother nature as well. So the answer is, what do we eat? Local, we eat seasonally, we eat fresh. What is available in the area to us? What did our ancestors eat?
00:48:54
Speaker
Why did they eat it? Yeah, because it was obviously there and it was what you needed to survive optimally in that environment. Their environment will give you the things that you need to thrive and survive. But now we subsist on like less than a dozen main foods, right? This monocrop western toxic sick diet that we're all surviving on. So I think the answer is really simple.
00:49:25
Speaker
those things that I've mentioned. And if you want to cook it or you want to eat it raw, that's up to you. Personally, I don't know the answer for each individual. They can test it out on themselves and see what works for them. But certainly our ancestors cooked food and they fermented things and they made things like sauerkraut, for example, because they kept for a long time.
00:49:55
Speaker
So that's how I approach that answer. And people might think that's a really hard thing to do. It is because we're so disconnected from how we should be living.
00:50:12
Speaker
So to actually make things right, on the ground level we need to try and do as much as we can, which means getting in contact with local farmers, supporting the people who are doing the right thing, growing the food the right way, growing food seasonally.
00:50:26
Speaker
growing foods locally, not putting poison on your lettuce. These are the steps that we take as individuals to start creating meaningful change. If everyone went and did this tomorrow, a lot of the big chain supermarkets would need to change their ways pretty quick smart because no one wants to buy poison lettuce anymore.
00:50:51
Speaker
or out of season lettuce. So it forces their hand to then having to source their produce from the farmers that are doing the right thing. And by virtue of doing that, now we start to get right with nature and we start to correct some of the issues. This isn't something that we fix tomorrow or next year, but it is certainly the way forward, I think. I agree. Definitely. Yeah, well put.
Contrasting Health Views
00:51:21
Speaker
So we have a fellow on, uh, back, I think episode eight or nine, uh, Mr. Ryan Alexander. And, uh, he, I think has, uh, the exact opposite view of you. Um, you know, it was, uh, he attributes most, if not all diseases to deficiencies, mineral deficiencies, vitamin deficiencies. Um,
00:51:50
Speaker
You know, and, um, it was really interesting because, you know, we, we talked about toxicities a little bit and he really paid no minds to toxicities either. You know, um, his philosophy was give the body what the body needs and the toxicities will deal with themselves, which is not a statement I think you'd necessarily disagree with. Um, but given the body, what it needs may be where you guys would differ.
00:52:19
Speaker
Um, you obviously thinking whole fresh local foods, uh, and him, you know, he, he would give a, um, he, he treats a lot of his clients with like a humic shale. So a mineral complex with, uh, added vitamins and minerals or added vitamins. And, um, you know, his idea was that the blue collar worker doesn't really care about health, you know, is not
00:52:49
Speaker
too concerned with going to the local farmer and things like this, you know, in his practice and his experience that your average Joe is going to do a whole lot better on a, in his mind, complete mineral supplement and vitamin supplement where they're given the, they talk about the 90 essential nutrients, which is something that Dr. Joel Wallach kind of coined anyways.
00:53:19
Speaker
In his mind, it was given these, all of the essential micronutrients. Um, and that, you know, this is just going to kind of help anyone along. And, um, you know, I think, you know, the results that, that he has speak for themselves. So I think there's a degree of truth in what he's doing as well, because he has helped many, many people reverse diseases on these supplements. So.
00:53:48
Speaker
Um, you know, but he was talking about how, you know, he's addressing the blue collar, the, the one who may not, you know, be as in tune with the cycles that we're speaking of here, you know, may live more, um, in a city, right? More, uh, metropolitan areas and, uh, things like that. So is, you know, and, and I guess, you know, maybe I'm looking at too big of a picture here because I think
00:54:19
Speaker
People in this community, and I know a lot of my listeners are definitely, we're about maximizing and we're about, you know, really integrating with nature. And that's kind of our idea here. I would just almost like to hear your take on that. Like, is there a case where a supplement can be beneficial or is it short term, you know, like you may see symptom reduction, but then, you know, you're going to have something down the line, you know, what are your thoughts on that?
00:54:49
Speaker
supplements as we know them have only been around for maybe three decades, if that. So what did our ancestors do 50 years ago? And then for every single generation since the dawn of time before that, what supplements were they taking? They didn't need anything. Can I give you his answer on that? Yeah. He said
00:55:19
Speaker
that they would supplement in their gardens and in their breads, they would use potash from the wood stoves. They would use the ash and they would put it back into their gardens. And within that, you have the potassium and the trace minerals. And there was also, he said, irrigation in fields. So now that we have dams, the water doesn't come down the line and flood the fields every year, kind of remineralizing the soil.
00:55:48
Speaker
So that was, that was his answer, which is something that to me, and they would, you know, they would grind the bones up and he was really adamant on eating nose to tail as well, which I'm sure you would probably agree with if you're going to consume animals, nose to tails likely best, right? Minimizing waste. They would grind the bones and use that in their breads or as a, as a supplement. So that was his idea of supplements. And, um, so anyway, sorry to interrupt, but that's just, I just thought that was kind of interesting, honestly.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds very fair to me. These are the things that our ancestors had to do that they learned over many, many centuries of trial and error to work out what they had to do to survive in harmony with nature. So there's a big difference between putting some
00:56:36
Speaker
ash like burning some trees and putting the ash in your garden, then there is popping hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of synthetic, pharmaceutically made supplements that don't account for food synergy, that also are acting as a red herring, as we've mentioned before, detracting from the true cause of the problem.
00:56:58
Speaker
Would the blue collar worker be as happy to take supplements if they knew how they were made? Would they be happy to take them if they knew they were being made from petrochemicals and formaldehyde and acetone and all this sort of crap? People take this stuff under the impression that it's an alternative to medicine. But the fact of the matter is, the people that are selling you the alternative are the people that are selling you the drugs.
00:57:24
Speaker
They've got a monopoly on the whole thing. They sell you both of them. Oh, you don't want the drug? Fine. Here, have the alternative, but it's also a drug that we make out of petrochemicals, but we're going to say it's good for you. And they've got the whole big marketing thing around it and they've sort of changed the whole landscape of particularly natural medicine and nutritional medicine.
00:57:47
Speaker
away from it being nutritional medicine and naturopathy or natural medicine. Prescribing supplements is not a aspect of natural medicine. It's actually not even nutrition. You can only nourish the body with food. When you provide supplements, this is its own niche of medicine. It's called orthomolecular medicine.
00:58:16
Speaker
It's not nutrition. It's not natural medicine. It is literally using synthetic substances which are essentially drugs in disguise to elicit certain physiological responses in the body. So if people want to use that because it makes them feel better,
00:58:34
Speaker
That's fine. It doesn't matter to me if someone does it or not. It's really up to them. I can only provide the information. And what they then do with that is up to them. I guess a lot of what this guy says sounds reasonable. I've only heard of him five minutes ago. But I guess my take on all this is to get back to basics. Let's address the root cause. Let's not build the house on the lava flow.
00:59:02
Speaker
Right. Let's find out why there isn't fertile nutrient dense soil anymore. And let's get to the crux of the problem. As I sort of mentioned, the longer that we sort of support this crumbling and destructive, the way that we're making food at the moment isn't going to last.
00:59:24
Speaker
It's already, it's failing, right? And this is only being propped up by this pharmaceutical nutritional supplement industry, right? So once that's gone, people are gonna have to go, oh shit, what am I gonna do now? Well, back to basics. So we may as well start educating people now to try and make some small changes so that when
00:59:54
Speaker
The stuff really hits the fan. It's not so much of a big shock to people. I also think that when people understand the truth about what's going on, the blue collar Joe Blow worker, and I'm not discrediting them at all because I do a lot
Agricultural Impact on Health
01:00:10
Speaker
of that. My family were blue collar workers, right?
01:00:17
Speaker
When they learn the truth about all of these things, I don't think they're going to want the supplement anymore. I honestly believe in my heart, they are going to want the real McCoy, the real food. It's just because we have been disconnected from that understanding that we don't realize its importance. Yeah. Well put. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. It's a systemic issue for sure.
01:00:47
Speaker
Yeah. And you put that very nicely. Everyone's going to have differing opinions, right? It's definitely. Yeah. And that's the beauty of all this that we can sort of throw these ideas around and then people can make their mind up for themselves. That's it. Um, and you know, getting back to your definition of health too, which I absolutely loved, you know, at the end of the day, if you're going to feel better,
01:01:16
Speaker
That's it. And so funny enough, in chatting with that fellow that I brought up, we had a lengthy conversation on placebo, you know, and, um, it's not something he, he denies, you know, it's like, it's like, he knows that placebo is the most powerful medicine out there. Um, and we call it placebo nowadays in our modern scientific terms, but, uh, you know, it's, it's always been around, you know, the
01:01:45
Speaker
if the mind is there. And we talked a lot about the power of like prayer, communal prayer and just intention. And, you know, it was a fantastic conversation surrounding that too. So, you know, I think definitely getting back to what's, what's tried and true and connecting back to these, to these sources, like you were mentioning is something that, that I'm on a journey to do, right? It's, it's not a snap of the fingers either, right? It connecting with the,
01:02:14
Speaker
with the right people. We're up in Canada here where raw milk is illegal and I have to drive. I'm going this afternoon to go get some raw milk and it's going to take my whole afternoon to do it. I chat with the farmer for a bit, I guess, but it's quite the drive out there, like an hour and a half. It's definitely a long journey to connect back with the food sources because we've been disconnected for a long time.
01:02:45
Speaker
And there's levels to it, right? There's levels to it. It may start with, I know it started with me and when I was at university and I just started going to the organic store and buying organic fruits and veg and, um, you know, rather than the more conventional stuff. And then, you know, it kind of branch out from there and connecting with people in the, just in the local area. So.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's a journey for sure. And connecting back to the ancestral wisdom is something that we talk about a lot too, because when I was chatting with that guy, my first idea was, well, I got to put the wood stove back in this house that they took out before we bought it, and I got to get some mash in my garden. I was like, I'll put some mash in my bread, and I'm going to start grinding up bones. And that was my first idea. I thought, well, you know, you start
01:03:39
Speaker
buying half a cow or a whole cow. Well, then what are you going to do with the bones? I know my dog will love them, but you know, I can't give them all to him. So there's, there's levels to it. And, uh, yeah, I think, uh, you put it well, you know, you're putting the information out there because I think, you know, there's some speculation that there may be some supply chain issues coming down the road and some, you know, but who knows, right? Who knows that too. Right. So just.
01:04:07
Speaker
knowledge is power. Any final thoughts from you?
01:04:22
Speaker
these professions all started popping up after we started poisoning the food supply and we started meddling with it and getting away from our roots and changing the way in which we existed harmoniously with Mother Nature. That is when we started to get confused about food.
01:04:40
Speaker
And never before has anyone been confused about food and the history of mankind. If you walked up to a guy in the Amazon rainforest 100 years ago and said, what's good to eat? He'd be able to show you. If you went to a guy in Canada 150 years ago and said, hey mate, what's good to eat around here? Well, we've got this thing over here and that, there and that. Who told you to eat that? Which nutritionist told you to eat that way? Like what the heck are you talking about, man?
01:05:06
Speaker
So this is like an innate intelligence that we don't need anyone to tell us what to eat. Really. This is not something that is a necessary part of life. We've just been conditioned to think that the government needs to put out these certain recommendations about how to have a balanced diet. We've never needed it before.
01:05:29
Speaker
so why do we need it now uh... get back to basics appreciate your food be grateful be thankful eat seasonally local and fresh cook your own food or prepare your own food with love take time and attention put good energy into it and enjoy it whilst just sitting down with people that you care about uh... i think if we
01:05:55
Speaker
start to get in contact with these old ways, things will get back to some semblance of normalcy. But until that time, I'm just going to watch and wait and see what happens and do as much as I can personally to do what I think is right by myself and my family and Mother Nature. Beautiful. Yeah, very well put.
Daniel's Upcoming Work
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, great, great, great final words.
01:06:23
Speaker
And then we've all be summed up in the Canadian food guide, if you need to reference the food pyramid. All right. No, that was great. So why don't you tell the listeners how they can support you, how they can find your work. You do an amazing podcast. You know, I've listened to quite a lot of the episodes, probably not all of them, but you have, I think over 60 episodes and they're all amazing.
01:06:49
Speaker
beautiful takes that's just, it's just such an amazing place to find some information. So how can they support you? How can they learn about your work and what you're doing? Yeah. I can't remember how many episodes there's 70 or whatever. I've had a break from doing podcasts and putting information out because I've been working on a book and the book is very close to being ready for publication. It will be out
01:07:19
Speaker
Soon, next couple of weeks, maybe a month, it's called, can you catch a cold? And it's basically a review of all of the human experiments that have ever been done trying to prove contagion with the influenza and the common cold. And we go through and talk about the history of germ theory, the
01:07:44
Speaker
alternative possible or potential causes of what causes a cold and flu from psychosomatic illness all the way through to changes in meteorological conditions.
01:07:55
Speaker
We go through everything from the sort of late 1700s all the way through to the present day. We explore some different pandemics like the Russian flu and the Spanish flu and investigate what might have actually been going on there. And yeah, had it reviewed by a virologist and a couple of prominent sort of well-known MDs in this field.
01:08:26
Speaker
And, yeah, I think there's over a thousand references. It's quite a tone of knowledge. So, yeah, people keep their eyes out for that. It's called, Can You Catch Cold? Ontold History and Human Experiments. If you want more information, just go to my website, www.humanly, h-u-m-a-n.
01:08:49
Speaker
l-e-y dot com and just sign up. You can sign up for free and when the book's ready I'll send out communication that way or jump on Telegram. I've got a Telegram channel there t dot m-e forward slash humanly and we have lots of interesting discussions and it's a bit of a community with lack-minded people so hopefully we'll see some people there.
01:09:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'll put some links down below. That's great. I'm looking forward to that book. I'll tell you that I'll be getting that as soon as it comes out. So yeah, that should be that should be great. Yeah.
01:09:32
Speaker
Well, I think that was really inspired because people keep saying, is there a resource where all the experiments are in one place? And I put them all in one place. And I've basically done a short analysis on each of the studies to explain why or why not. It's a valid scientific experiment. So yeah, I think people will find a good resource. And it's a bit of a fun read. It's science heavy, but it is fairly entertaining, hopefully.
01:10:03
Speaker
I'm sure yeah that's great it'll be one of those I think a staple book moving forward especially in the train paradigm which is increasingly popular because it's hard to go back once you hear it and you look into it I'll tell you that I really tried when I was in university to get back to the germ theory but it was
01:10:30
Speaker
It was impossible. I really, really tried every day. I woke up and tried to prove the germ theory right. And I failed every day, every day for a good couple of years there. And still I'm open to the idea of disproving, you know, the terrain model, I suppose, or proving the germ theory right. But certainly hasn't come along yet. And, uh, I can't say that I'm expecting it to come along, but anyways, that's all right.
01:10:59
Speaker
Daniel, thank you so much for coming on today. This was a great discussion. Very insightful. Um, I might've been a little hard on you there, but, uh, I, uh, you answered beautifully, honestly, every, every single time. And the way you articulate your responses and, uh, your approach is just, uh, a breath fresh air. It's so inspiring. Um, so yeah, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to have. Thank you. You don't want to thank you all for listening. Uh, you should know this is not medical advice or nutritional advice.
01:11:30
Speaker
This is for your informational purposes only. Also remember that we're all responsible, sovereign beings, capable of thinking, criticizing, and understanding absolutely anything. We the people in the greater forces are self-teachers, self-healer, self-governable, and so much more. Please reach out if you have any questions, comments, criticisms, concerns. I'm on beyond.terrain on Instagram. All the links will be down below. And I really appreciate everyone that took the time today that made it all the way to the end. I think this discussion is extremely important.
01:11:59
Speaker
Um, yeah. So if you enjoyed it, found it valuable in any way, please like, share, comment, review, whatever you got to do on the platform you're listening to. And, uh, yeah, just remember there are two types of people in the world. Those who think they can, those think they can't, and they're both correct. All right, guys, take care.