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Dr. Mari Arce on Culture, Naturopathy, Putting in the Work, Nocebo, the Mind and much more!
453 Plays1 year ago
This week we are joined by Dr. Mari Arce! We begin with Dr. Arce's personal journey, providing a glimpse into the path that led her to her current understanding of health. The discussion turns to the concept of the terrain, examining when Dr. Arce first encountered this crucial aspect of health. Distinguishing between nature-opathy and naturopathy, we explore different approaches to natural healing, and nuances about naturopathic school.
We consider the allure of magic pills in comparison to the importance of doing the work. Here we touch on supplements, and the different types. The conversation delves into the power of the mind exploring the placebo and nocebo effects in healing, as well as shamanistic medicine.
We then chat about some specific interventions such as enemas and fasting. Then discussing the practitioner relationship! We finish up with discussing self-care.
I hope you enjoy the episode!
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Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Marie Arce
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Beyond Train podcast. We're joined by a very special guest today, Dr. Marie Arce. This is episode 18. We're really flying through these episodes. It's going very well in my mind. I'm really enjoying every single episode as a new fresh perspective. And I'm just gathering so much insight. I hope you guys are enjoying it as well. But yeah, I stumbled upon Dr. Arce's work.
00:00:30
Speaker
I think over a year ago now, and I've been following her a little bit there. And of course she has an amazing perspective coming from a terrain mindset too. And I think at the time when I found her actually was I was just looking for other people that were kind of talking about terrain other than kind of the main, the heavy hitters there, like the Dr. Lando and Kaufman and Cohen. So I was looking, I thought there's going to be some
00:01:00
Speaker
some people out there, some practitioners that are working in the training paradigm. So I stumbled upon our work and I love it. It's a great perspective. So I'm super excited about today's conversation. Dr. RSA, thank you very much for coming in today and having a chat with me. Oh, certainly my pleasure. I look forward to having a grand discussion about all the different things that I do. And thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely.
Holistic Health Philosophy
00:01:28
Speaker
So the first question I ask all my guests is I asked them to define health. And so this gives us a good baseline that we can work off of. So we always get a kind of a different answer from everybody. Everyone has a slightly different perspective and it's always kind of tailored to what they're all about. So I love this question. I know it's a big question and, um, but yeah, so what, what does help mean to you and what does it look like and how does it manifest?
00:01:53
Speaker
It's a great question. I don't think I've ever been presented that question. And when I saw it, I said to myself, this is a really good question. And truly, what health means to me is everything. Health is, we've defined health into a little category when in fact it's our entire existence. It's the way we thrive. It's the way we do everything. So health is,
00:02:20
Speaker
is, has been manufactured to be a topic rather than the actual, you know, our entire existence. It's the balance between, you know, good things and bad things within our body. It's our mentality. It's our behaviors. It's everything. And, you know, what I do, what I have learned and what I teach people
00:02:45
Speaker
is that health is your entire life. It's all the choices you make. It's all the products you buy, you know, that supports your health or it doesn't. So for me, health is everything. Health is the epitome of your existence. Great. Yeah, great answer. I couldn't agree more. Health is absolutely everything. And even things that you may not think are correct, like, you know, tied to your health can still play a huge role. Like,
00:03:14
Speaker
like you said, even the products that you buy and financial health is something that I've kind of think about a lot too, right? Because some people say, you know, you don't need to, you know, it doesn't cost a lot to be healthy. And some people say, Oh, it's really expensive to be healthy. You know, I mean, up here in Canada, it's pretty expensive to be healthy, in my opinion, you know, to eat whole foods and organic and stuff. So I mean, you know, I'm sure you can argue both sides, but you know, so there, there, there are pieces that right. And then it's like,
00:03:43
Speaker
It's like how you're managing your time too, if you're working. And so your work-life balance is part of your health too. So it's like this delicate, delicate balance. So I love that answer. It's everything. Yeah. Yeah.
Cultural Influences on Health
00:03:54
Speaker
So I was reading a little bit about your bio there and I just found it absolutely fascinating. So maybe you could give us a little rundown on your journey and what led you here and thinking in the, in the, from this terrain perspective, such a beautiful perspective that you have now. How did you, how did you manage to get here?
00:04:11
Speaker
Well, I was fortunate to be born in a family that was very multicultural. My mother's background, she was raised as an Italian, but her background is Sicilian Italian and German. And my father was born in Peru.
00:04:28
Speaker
And so in my house, I was afforded the opportunity to see this diversity and seeing different mentalities, different expressions of how one saw health and how one used the environment and foods in terms of supporting the health. And then apart from that,
00:04:49
Speaker
My father worked in the United Nations since I was born. So all I remembered was being exposed to, again, so many different cultures and ways of thinking. And it really embedded in my mind a wanting to understand what culture did to one in terms of their views. Early on, I wanted to be a doctor.
00:05:19
Speaker
I mean, there's videos and pictures of me just toddling around, you know, when I was really teeny tiny, you know, making potions and making all sorts of like salves and things pretend, of course, you know, in our driveway and things like that. And so I, for a very, very early age, I knew that was, I geared myself towards whatever I needed to do to get to a place where I can be a doctor, a person to heal, because that's what I thought.
00:05:46
Speaker
at the time and that doctors were these people who people went to and were revered with knowledge and I wanted to be that. I had that within me to try to understand the body and understand how to really help people when they were in great need.
00:06:05
Speaker
And I said to myself, as I got through schooling, I started melding the two. And I didn't think that was possible. I never heard of someone kind of combining the two ideologies of understanding culture with medicine. And then when I got to college, I had two aspirations. I said I was either going to be a doctor or I was going to be Indiana Jones.
00:06:32
Speaker
So, so I studied for I studied for both and I saw that I can completely combine the two, you know, I concentrated on
00:06:43
Speaker
living cultures mostly and how they saw food, medicine and nutrition. And I did study dead cultures, I did study antiquity, I did do that because of course we are molded by history and we are molded by tradition that has been passed on.
00:07:03
Speaker
But I really felt like I can really help more people if I understood how they saw the body based off of how they were brought up and how their cultural influences created these different views. And then I went to med school and said I kept on striving through and I went to regular med school and I didn't really like it because it was very callous and cold.
00:07:26
Speaker
It didn't do what I thought it was going to do for me. And so after about two and a half years, I got out of regular med school and went to naturopathic school, seeing that it kind of encompassed a little bit more of that ideology that I was hoping for, that holism in seeing, you know, seeing a person's body and their mentality and everything that basically influenced, you know, their health, right? And I said, here is where I can now incorporate what I learned
00:07:54
Speaker
from my anthropological studies into the medicine, into the health practitioner viewpoint. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I know for myself, like in my undergraduate, I was fortunate to take a couple of like indigenous medicine courses and an indigenous conservation. And it was,
00:08:21
Speaker
from a perspective of the natives around here. So we have the Mi'kmaq people around and the professor actually was, he was Nishnabe. So he was originally from like Toronto area. And so he kind of taught from both perspectives. And it was so interesting because he grew up nearby in Cape Breton. And like, it was just amazing to see, I'd never really understood medicine from a perspective other than
00:08:48
Speaker
you know, the, what we're taught in school and I did biochemistry, right? So it was really refreshing to hear, you know, how they view the body and, you know, what their perspective on the body is and what health is and what medicine is, right? Cause like thinking of like a drum as medicine is, was not something that necessarily popped into my mind when I thought of medicine, but now it's so clear to me. And after, you know, like creating a drum and
00:09:18
Speaker
really using it as medicine. You can really feel that energy and the healing powers of it. I just love this different perspective. You can learn from so many different cultures. That's one of the beauties of the world that we live in today is that we have access to all these different modalities of thinking and knowing. That's amazing. You did your undergraduate in anthropology, right?
00:09:42
Speaker
I concentrated on it. I concentrated on medicinal nutritional anthropology. So I took some really kind of random courses. I did some outside studies. And I wrote quite a number of papers on different things, you know, different peoples that I studied and things like that. So, you know, it really it again, it really put a perspective. I already coming in with a unique perspective, having a very
00:10:09
Speaker
different upbringing in America.
00:10:12
Speaker
having a very ethnic background, you know, already put me in a place where I appreciated other cultures. And then when you really dive into traditional cultures, you dive into, you know, the fundamentals of humanity, where humanity came from and the more simplistic ways of
Naturopathic vs. Germ Theory
00:10:38
Speaker
kind of
00:10:40
Speaker
viewing the intricacies of how community, environment, and sustenance all impact the body, either creating health or disease, you start to appreciate more where the real history of holistic healthcare or alternative, which I don't like the word, alternative healthcare comes from. Yeah, yeah, that's very cool.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess, yeah, it's beautiful, honestly. And, and I think, you know, just here in your perspective and how you came to this way of thinking, right? It's, it's amazing. So I'd like to know, you know, you know, how, how the terrain model kind of fits into what you've learned so far. Like when did that come about? You know, is it something that you learn more in, in naturopathic school? Was it even talked about, you know, because I wonder that honestly about,
00:11:40
Speaker
they teach a terrain, you know, the terrain theory perspective, not a theory per se, but, you know, when did that kind of come about? So my understanding of disease and health really came about in the anthropology viewpoint.
00:12:02
Speaker
Um, it, it was more, I understood that, you know, your, it kind of put a little bit, because again, we all came from, like you said, we come from a very more to more, a conventional standpoint, right? We're raised a certain way. You go to the doctor for your shots, et cetera, et cetera. And so when I was exposed to, again, these traditional cultures,
00:12:25
Speaker
in college, I saw how instrumental the idea that your environment, your community, the things you were eating can impact your health. And I said,
00:12:42
Speaker
these cultures are not fearful of the germs that we are in industrialized worlds, in Western culture, in primary countries that are considered first world. So that already put us like a doubt in my head where it was like, there's something to it where they're not, A, they're not getting the diseases that we get in the Western cultures. It's just not there.
00:13:12
Speaker
what is it that they're doing that makes them quote-unquote immune right so that already kind of put a little ripple of doubt for me and then again being exposed to regular medical school it was just so
00:13:25
Speaker
I don't even know. It's like bone chilling to be in regular med school and to see the stark contrast of how Western culture sees disease like this. All I envision all the time is like these white tiled hallways, people wearing white lab coats, sterility, you know, like this disconnect.
00:13:50
Speaker
And you're like a, you're a lab report. You know, like a patient is a lab report. They're not even a person. They're not a thing. Their ethnicity doesn't count. You don't even practically don't even have a gender at a point where it doesn't matter. You're just, you're just paperwork. And so I was like, this is just, it's just too, too separate for me. There was just no, no connection. So when I went to naturopathic medical school and just a step before that, I was introduced to Weston A. Price.
00:14:21
Speaker
And it was just like a brief encounter around 2001. And I remember he'd studied different cultures and he saw, you know, how they lived. And it was like a really nice little intro that kind of seeped in my subconscious. So then once I was in naturopathic school, I was presented with Weston A. Price again. And I don't know if everybody knows who Weston A. Price is. He was a dentist back in the 1930s, early 1900s.
00:14:50
Speaker
who went and studied different traditional cultures that weren't influenced by industrialization, and he saw what pre-industrialization did to a culture, meaning that they were healthy, they weren't influenced by preservatives and white sugar and white flour, and then he saw what would happen to the cultures once these adulterated foods came in.
00:15:13
Speaker
having my mentality and seeing what he did, I was like, that that would have been me if I had, you know, have a little bit more gumption to kind of like travel, you know, be by myself and kind of study all these different cultures. But it was it was really no seeing him and solidifying that idea that what we eat and where we are is what actually makes health and is what actually disrupts health.
00:15:42
Speaker
in that there really is no such thing as disease per se, in that it's just a disruption of health. And that by nature is the terrain model, right? So when I was in naturopathic school, they don't teach that. So naturopathic medical school, again, digression is different than naturopathy, right? So naturopathy was designed
00:16:06
Speaker
in Germany and then brought here. There's a couple of people, but the North American most renowned person that I know of was Benedict Loosst. And Benedict Loosst, he coined the term naturopathy here in the States. He created a school and he created naturopathy. So naturopathy was, and any person who believed in water cure and nature cure, like Lynn Larr,
00:16:36
Speaker
Henry Lindlar believed that there was no such thing as there was only one disease and one disease was malnutrition, tuxemia, and trauma. There's only one disease. They didn't believe that germs did anything. Now this was a time where science was becoming very flourishing, right? They were coming up with all sorts of different microscopes and the 1931 outcomes, the electron microscope. So they feel like they were discovering all these germs and all these different things.
00:17:05
Speaker
But naturopathy and the nature cure people were in the 1800s. And despite the fact that the whole bacteria germ theory model was really being pushed, they saw evidence, and it's still today you could see this evidence, that bacteria and such always shows up after the person's already exhibiting issues, right? You're already coughing and sneezing and all sorts of things. So for them, it confirmed
00:17:33
Speaker
The idea that the germ theory, that the germ is the cause of a problem, was completely refuted because it was always secondary to already the changes happening in the body.
00:17:45
Speaker
I personally, being that I was in naturopathic medical school and being basically, it was kind of like a green washed medical school. And I hate to say it because I was enriched with a lot of opportunities and education from the school, but at the same time, the diagnosis system, the lab reports, the looking at symptoms to define an infection based off of what type of bacteria is all germ theory driven.
00:18:15
Speaker
And when Luce created naturopathy and all the schools of naturopathy, about 1925 naturopathic medical schools started to develop and they were more germ theory based. So naturopathy was more terrain based or what they liked back in the day. Cause terrain is more of a new terminology. It was more something called nature cure. So nature cure was term naturopathy and germ theory
00:18:44
Speaker
And the use of antibiotics and the use of, you know, certain mercurial like for mercury, arsenic based stuff was naturopathic medicine. So I, I fell upon the terrain idea, the nature cure idea very early on. And, but I had to bite my lip to get through school. So there you have it. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like my kind of perspective too now is like,
00:19:15
Speaker
And we said this in our introductory episodes, it was like, everything pre-pastel for the most part was all terrain, you know, because it was always for the most part, right? You know, you, like in the, like you were mentioning, there were these mercury arsenic treatments that were maybe less ideal, but you know, um, everything was fairly terrain based. And especially when you're looking at different cultures too, I find like when you're studying, like,
00:19:45
Speaker
indigenous medicine and stuff, it was always treating the whole person. And I think what you're highlighting here is that even the more, yeah, that kind of true way of doing labs and treating a very specific part of the person may not be the best approach. Obviously, like I'm no practitioner and I'm sure there's a time and a place where you need to target the liver and there's
00:20:14
Speaker
But at the same time, like, you know, you may be able to speak on that more, but I mean, it was all like, for me, it seems like in theory and in philosophy, it was always treating the whole person. There was never, there was never a disconnection of like, you know, when you were sick, it was, you were just treated as you were, you know, you were not in ideal health, right? It was, it was trying to bring you back into this balance and this homeostasis. And I studied Hippocrates a little bit and,
00:20:42
Speaker
Maybe you could comment on his work because it's interesting, you know, he has these amazing quotes and you know in reading his work He was certainly a good philosopher in my mind at the very least You know, maybe his interventions didn't necessarily follow I would have maybe a couple criticisms there but You know in I in in essence it was very holistic still and but we've certainly gotten far away from that but
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, um, it's, it's interesting, right? Cause it's just the terrain is everything, right? And health is everything. And it's funny now that we were talking about terrain theory or terrain medicine, right? When it's like, why do we even have to say it? I think Dr. Barry Lando talked about this. He's like, I hate even calling it terrain medicine because it's just medicine. You know, the terrain is the obvious part.
00:21:38
Speaker
No, it's he's so right. He's so right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I love him. I really appreciate it. What he does. He's taught me a lot, honestly, just from listening to his lectures. But yeah, I mean, um, natureopathy being different from natural path. It's like not something you necessarily think of too. I have a lot of people go to natural paths and they, they don't really like what they go in here. It's often like from,
00:22:08
Speaker
from the people that I know that I've went, I've never actually been to a natural path. Um, but it's always very standard. Like you should probably stop drinking milk or, you know, and even the, I feel like the plant based is pushed a lot as well. Um, which in my opinion, it doesn't really align with, with nature, but it's, it's often it's like milk bread and, and they're very standard generic responses, you know, when it's like,
00:22:35
Speaker
Okay. Well, like, let's look at the milk that you're drinking. Is it pasteurized? And is it, you know, how are the cows raised and are you fermenting the grains before you're cooking your bread? Right. Yeah. I find, I just find, I appreciate your perspective because, you know, many people will take this step in the right direction, trying to get the natural way of healing, but then they're kind of just met with another,
00:23:04
Speaker
obstacle, right? It's like, you're still not looking at the body as a whole. Are you even taking responsibility for your own health? Are you still looking for that magic pill or someone else to fix you?
Natural Foods vs. Quick Fixes
00:23:17
Speaker
What are your thoughts on that, on the magic pill or supplements maybe and things like that? Well, that's a great question.
00:23:30
Speaker
I'm going to, I'm going to answer that in a very roundabout way. So I deterred myself from finishing, I just needed one more year to get an acupuncture license. I needed two more years to get a chiropractic license. And I didn't do that. And the reason being is that I myself, this is just me. Now there are some great chiropractors out there and there's some great acupuncturists and this has nothing to do
00:23:57
Speaker
with how they practice and they've done great work and they've helped lots of people. This is solely for me. The way I practice is such that I
00:24:09
Speaker
people walk in, they're referred to me, they come to my office knowing full well that I'm not going to give them the quick answer. Knowing full well that it's not going to be something that I give them that's going to make the boo boo go away. It has to be behavioral changes. It has to be things that they understand that they have to do and work on. So for me, when it comes to any type of quick fix,
00:24:38
Speaker
I deter myself, even myself away from it because of the fact that acupuncture and chiropractor are things that people go in and they go, oh, I go in and I feel better and I walk out. And then I just have to go back next week. I don't have to change anything. I don't have to do anything again, respectfully to acupuncturists and chiropractors who do work the way I'm talking about. Great. Awesome. But I've, I've been.
00:25:02
Speaker
many times having to correct behavioral patterns of someone who's been going to an acupuncturist for years, nothing really changing in their body, them just feeling better.
00:25:14
Speaker
But the problem is still there. You know, the problems, the imbalances are still there. Now with most supplements on the market are synthetic. They're garbage, absolute garbage. And many of the times they're giving you that quick fix, right? So when you're taking a synthetic supplement, which again, that's why they're garbage, synthetic or isolate,
00:25:35
Speaker
Vitamins they have no life to them. They're not Alive and they don't have those cofactors and the coenzymes. They're not they're not vibrating with life and so when you're taking them it's kind of like Your body is a car factory and you're given a wheel and now your body has to kind of come up with all the different parts of the of the car in order to create the car and
00:25:59
Speaker
the whole complex of the vitamin inside of you, right? So that's exhausting for the body. But initially the body's like, oh, at least it's something so I can work with the something. So I always when I hear people say, oh, I took vitamin D, I took vitamin C, I took vitamin whatever, and they'll feel better at the beginning, it's because it's just the part, but then the body has to rob itself from all over to make the full complex. In the States, again,
00:26:29
Speaker
I'm afforded the opportunity to work with two companies who actually understood that and they don't use synthetics in their vitamins. We're just starting to see it worldwide. In terms of people understanding, you can get like dehydrated liver, like beef liver, and get it in a capsule if you're like, if it's something that you really can't stand consuming. So now you're starting to see a little bit more of this ancestral understanding
00:26:56
Speaker
of eating organ meats, of having raw dairy, things like that. But people are not really getting, again, these two companies that are in the United States.
00:27:08
Speaker
They don't ship out anywhere else other than the United States. And those are the only companies that I recommend because if you look at their ingredients, it's like grandma's stew. It's like brewers yeast and carrots and broccoli and beef liver and beef brains and wheat germ oil. And you're getting this all in a pill that's still alive because they're dehydrating it in a state of vacuum, which is at 70 degrees. So there's no destroying heat destruction or anything like that.
00:27:37
Speaker
And that's the only time where when someone's coming with huge debilitation, they have severe
00:27:43
Speaker
you know, dysfunction, quote unquote, diseases, you know, they're on death's door, they have malignancies in their body, and you know, no amount of food you can they could stuff their face or they can fast, or they can sit in the sun. But unfortunately, their body is so, you know, teeter tottered the wrong way, that you need a concentrated food substances to help their body kind of get back on track. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. And actually it aligns beautifully with what we were talking about last week. I was talking to Daniel Roytuss from Humanely and he's a big guy. He doesn't necessarily believe in a vitamin deficiency per se, but it's an interesting perspective for sure. But it kind of aligns with what you're saying, that there's just this out of balance in the body and
00:28:40
Speaker
how giving an isolate or a synthetic vitamin is not necessarily gonna bring your body back into balance, right? You kind of have to give it the whole spectrum to from whole foods and whole foods themselves have this, have the complete profile of everything, right? You were kind of explaining that too and how using maybe a dehydrated form of a whole food can concentrate these down
00:29:09
Speaker
So I think that's really interesting actually. And so when I think of supplements, I think of them in kind of different levels, right? Like I think of like the synthetics, the isolates and things like that. And then I think of whole food supplements as well, because funny enough, like some people would consider taking B pollen a supplement. Well, I have whole B pollen in a jar that I put in my smoothies and I kind of just look at it as food, you know, we can call it a supplement.
00:29:39
Speaker
We could call it whatever you want, but it's like this is just food. I think there are really levels to this. And this is kind of just how I think because I feel like there is a small movement of people who are really getting away from supplements, which I can appreciate. I think a goal is to be able to just consume whole foods because it's true that through history we haven't necessarily needed supplements.
00:30:10
Speaker
We are also in a different state, right? And I think back to actually the Hippocrates quote where it's like drastic, um, drastic measures or drastic diseases called for drastic measures, something along the lines of that. Right. Yes. And I think of that and, um, something that was actually taught to me through, um, my indigenous professor was the, the two-eyed seeing, um, you know, and seeing that, you know, maybe even at times like
00:30:39
Speaker
you know, it's an appreciation for the modern way as well, uh, that, you know, they, there is a life saving component to that and you can't necessarily diminish that. And then there is the, you know, you can take supplements and it could be helpful and you can. So there's many different approaches. And I think, um, a topic that comes up over and over again is health is very individual. Sure. Um, yeah. And I think, uh, it depends on where you are on your journey and what's going to be best for you as well. Right. So, um,
00:31:09
Speaker
You know, when I learned a little bit about the indigenous medicine and learning about these different plant medicines, you know, it was funny because there were so many different plants that. Healed the same things, right? It was like, Oh, this is good for coal and pretty much every plant in the Mi'kmaq textbook was good for a cold and flu. Right. Um, but you know, when I started like, when I would listen to like the philosophy behind it, it wasn't necessarily, um,
00:31:39
Speaker
allopathic in the way they treated it either. It was like what was really available in their local area because they were obviously forging their own medicines. And I feel like they were treating it with more of a resonance as well, like kind of beyond even a physical, this herb for this ailment, it was kind of like the medicine man or woman who were so in tuned with nature and the workings of the body were kind of just working with the energetics of the body as well.
Role of Belief and Shamans
00:32:09
Speaker
you know, I feel like this plant is the right, you know, and, but there was also this prayer that came along with it and this intention and all this beautiful extra stuff, this setting and the, so, you know, maybe you can speak on that. What, what do you know about how, you know, and this is kind of a little general, maybe you could speak some examples, but how like, you know, ancient cultures or like how they treated medicine, right? What's the connection there and how they, how they use
00:32:36
Speaker
how they use medicine to treat the person, right? Because I just think it's a little different than what we're doing now with this herb or this ailment type stuff. I hope I'm clear there. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I always imagine, so that's shamanistic medicine, but traditional shamanistic, not the new age version of what we use, what people have been using shaman as for. So shamanistic, the shamanistic tradition, shamanistic medicine,
00:33:01
Speaker
is the understanding and the appreciation of, again, the environment. That's what I was talking about before. So the shaman of a group, a shaman of a tribe or a clan, understood the dynamics. He was the guy or the woman who actually had his ear to the ground and knew all the different gossip that was happening in the community.
00:33:24
Speaker
knew that that couple was trying to have a baby knew that couple was arguing so he knew already dynamics but he didn't really engage in that he gave away his secrets right so he knew if someone were to come to him like one of the women that was trying to get pregnant
00:33:40
Speaker
You know, he knew already what was happening. She'd be like, oh, I need something for this, that, and the other. And he knew, knowing again what was happening, he always gave the herbs that were appropriate for whatever it was. And he looked magical because somehow he knew what was needed to be given. Now, in terms of how shaman and the anecdotal understanding of herbs is, is kind of like when you get to a point when you're a cook or a chef,
00:34:09
Speaker
You smell the brew. You don't even have to think or taste. You just smell it and you know the herb you need to put to get that right flavor, that right kind of, you know,
00:34:20
Speaker
essence that you're trying to create, right? And shamans know that with herbs, where the herb grows, how it grows, you know, certain times of the year, if the sun hits it the right way, if it's growing from under a rock as opposed to above the rock, you know, all these different kind of little tweaks, they understand and appreciate what type of medicine that herb would provide. And so when they would take that herb at the specific time that they were taught to take it,
00:34:50
Speaker
They will also create a medicine from it in a certain way, combining it with other herbs, combining it with certain chants, as you said, and creating again that soup, right? Like when grandma makes chicken soup, she puts love into it, that kind of terminology. So the shaman is doing the same thing with the chanting. He's invoking and bringing in that energy, that resonance to the herbs.
00:35:15
Speaker
so that when the person takes it, they're not only getting just the herb, but they're getting an enhanced version energetically of what that herb can provide.
00:35:26
Speaker
That's also the understanding of like Spigerics and a little bit of homeopathy because you're creating an understanding that there is a huge variance between how you pick the herb, when you pick the herb, how the herb is created, you know, diluted, whatever it may be. So in terms of
00:35:48
Speaker
The shamanistic approach, unfortunately, again, we've completely lost sight of that, right? We have lost sight of the idea that there is an energy to everything. There is a difference between when you pick a tomato on June 1st on a cloudy day versus you pick a tomato on June 15th, half moon,
00:36:10
Speaker
on, you know, half sunny day and it rained yesterday. So there's going to be difference in its vibrancy, its living essence. And on a physical level, there's going to be different nutrition, different enzymatic actions happening. So it's a very different levels of things. And Shamans, not knowing the science, knew and appreciated how to
00:36:39
Speaker
use that herb and engage with the community with what that herb was. So even the people knew the power of the herb. So now you're kind of like a talisman. If I show you an amulet, you'll be like, okay, what is that? But I've empowered the amulet. I believe in the amulet, right?
00:36:59
Speaker
So people in these cultures also believed in the herbs or believed in the words or believed in the drumming, the musical incantations that surrounded in the preparations of either creating or giving the medicine itself, which again, invokes even more resonant energy. Yeah. Amazing. So, you know, it makes me think of, you know, it just makes me think like,
00:37:30
Speaker
At what point is the belief everything? Because when you look at it through time, and even now, how we've used these types of herbs, or how even the church may have sold prey, or how modern medicine sells their cures. I think some people get results, some people don't.
00:38:00
Speaker
I wonder, is it a matter of belief? Is there a lack of, they're like, what, what power does that have in medicine? Right? Cause it's something that's kind of standard along the line. Like someone who believes in modern medicine so much that it's a religion to them, which I certainly think modern science is the newest religion and it is the largest, most popular religion nowadays, but you know, there's this real belief behind it and there's this real power in that belief. You know, I just.
00:38:30
Speaker
And the book Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton comes to mind as well, right? It's something that comes up over and over again. Maybe you could speak on that a little bit. Sure. In a scientific standpoint, it's the difference between nocebo and placebo, right?
00:38:52
Speaker
I feel the nocebo or the disbelief has more power than the belief itself. So I'll give you an example. People who believe raw milk will work, it will work. People who don't know about raw milk but don't have a doubt about raw milk, it will still work. But people who don't believe, truly don't believe raw milk will work, it won't work as well.
00:39:23
Speaker
So it's not, I don't know if it's so much the lack of belief. I think it's the huge doubt. So the fear and the doubt is the energy that makes something not work. But if you are innocent in that, you don't know. Like you really go, I don't know if this is gonna, like I see homeopathy work. Now mind you, I only use homeopathics when it's herb-based. I don't use homeopathics that are chemical-based, like arsenic, mercury-based homeopathy.
00:39:52
Speaker
But I've seen homeopathy work wonderfully with children because they have no belief system, right? They don't know if it works or doesn't work. I've seen homeopathy work for people who truly believe in homeopathy. I've seen homeopathy work for people who have no idea what homeopathy is, so they have no doubt. They're like, okay, it looks like a sugar pill, I'll just take it. But I've seen homeopathy not work for people who truly don't believe it's gonna work.
00:40:22
Speaker
So for me, the nocebo effect always works way stronger than the placebo effect, where the person has no idea. But the nocebo effect works just as strong as a person who truly believes. So it's like kind of the same thing. So I always tell people the placebo, the most, if everybody had the same focus of energy that they have with their fears and their doubts,
00:40:52
Speaker
and they put that same focus and drive with what they wanted, you'd see people manifesting all sorts of things. They'd manifest health in an instant because fear is such a strong focus for people and doubt is such a strong focus for people.
00:41:10
Speaker
And so for me, it's never been, I've seen, like I said, I've seen things work and people have no clue and it works because as long as they don't have the doubt, as long as they don't have the negative aspect to it, it will work regardless. And I think, again, that comes back to the anthropological shamanistic approach. The shaman was the one that tried to remove that doubt from the people.
00:41:37
Speaker
he created such an essence and an aura around himself that he had this power, which if you think about it, shamans didn't have any more power, they just had a little bit more knowledge, right? And they knew how to kind of play around with that. So what they did was in order for an herb to work, in order for them to use these words and this essence and this sound and the resonance to really work, they had to absolve the person from their complete doubts and fears. And then you would see these quote unquote, miraculous healings.
00:42:07
Speaker
because it's just a removal of that fear and that doubt. Very, very well put. I love that answer. That's amazing. Not something I've necessarily thought about either. That's great. I often think too, well, especially in this conversation, the quote, well, quote, the saying that, you know, biology follows energy. That's something that has come up a couple of times in our,
00:42:36
Speaker
podcast that, you know, I don't like to discount the physical realm either. And, you know, the chemical world, right? It's, you know, obviously, you know, I'm so far away from the materialistic view of, of the world, but you can't necessarily discount the physical world either. And, um, but with the understanding that, you know, the biology follows the energy, I think that's really important as well.
00:43:07
Speaker
And like you're highlighting like the, the conditions in which you're giving the medicine or harvesting the medicine or creating the medicine and all of these things have profound effects on the medicine itself and maybe even in a chemical way, right? Maybe the camp, maybe it is increasing the energy and then the, you know, it's becoming a more ideal medicine and that's carrying that energy physically into the body to be released. You know, the mechanism we can speculate all day and night, but I mean,
00:43:37
Speaker
I'm not, but I mean, like when it comes down to it, I think, I think that's a good way to look at it. I don't like to discount the physical and I know we're getting a little metaphysical here, but I just kind of wanted to put that in there because I think it's important. And because I think there is a real truth to, to the physical medicine as well. I think that there is a truth to that. Um,
00:44:06
Speaker
because I think there are interventions and maybe like we're kind of on herbology
Cautions in Health Practices
00:44:10
Speaker
here. We can maybe move beyond that as well. Like, you know, interventions, like, you know, you can think of different interventions. Like I hear one that I'm not too sure about really is like an enema or something like that, or like, uh, like, like the drumming or different things like that. But like, there's a lot of different types of, of interventions. Um, but, uh, yeah, maybe I'll ask you about enema as I saw your,
00:44:35
Speaker
you might have something to say on those. What are your thoughts on that? I'm not a huge fan of them. I think when it comes to if it's like an emergency, if it's something where you have to remove some sort of severe toxin out, yes, it's warranted. But as a
00:44:56
Speaker
as a thing to kind of like your systems backed up and you're doing it as a thing, like a monthly thing or a yearly thing or whatever it may be. Your body is trying to create, as you said, a homeostasis, it's creating a balance and putting an enema in is kind of like changing the playing field. And so you have, you know, the whole
00:45:24
Speaker
microbiome, the whole system now has to readjust after being exposed to that new stimuli. And, you know, again, for some, it works. I've not seen it work amazingly, as some people may suggest it does. I think it's a quick fix. And I think if one were to stop doing some, you know, certain people stop doing their NMS, certain issues would come back.
00:45:54
Speaker
So it's just holding at bay the inevitable, right? And I don't feel other than consuming the right nutrition, I don't feel that there's any health care treatment like an enema, a natural treatment that you need to do all the time in order to maintain health, right? So if you're doing something in order to be healthy and you're doing it all the time as like a religion,
00:46:24
Speaker
I have to question that, because you should be able to do something and be like, okay, the system reset itself. Let's see how it goes. We move on step forward. So dependency on certain processes to help your body be healthy is no different than being dependent on chemicals, right from the conventional standpoint to be healthy. Yeah.
00:46:51
Speaker
I think I would group the parasite cleanses into this really easily as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and like when I think of enemas, I think it's like a very, like I said, you know, there, there may be cases, right? I think, I think you hit the nail on the head there, right? And as a reset as well, but then seeing how your body adapts again is important. Like, um, you know, I think it's a very intense intervention, right? And.
00:47:20
Speaker
I've kind of heard this, uh, this terminology thrown around the soft detox versus something that's really harsh in an intervention. And I've kind of looked at, you know, and soft detox, often you're talking about like just eating the right foods and you know, stuff like that. So, um, that's kind of how I look at interventions. I kind of look at what, what toll,
00:47:47
Speaker
it's going to take in the body because resetting the bodies is something like you said that the body has to readapt and the body has to, you know, try to, it's kind of shocking. It's kind of shocking to the body. Um, so it's not something like, I really don't like the idea of relying on anything. I don't like the idea of, I've been talking a lot about mouth tape. I don't like the idea of relying on mouth tape. You know, I like, you know, the idea of retrain, you know, if you have facial deformities and stuff,
00:48:17
Speaker
maybe interventions in that area, but I don't know. It's like, I just don't like the idea of relying on myself. It's true. Um, I think that, that is, that is really central. Um, yeah. So I mean, what about, uh, what about fasting? What are your thoughts on fasting? I kind of maybe liken it to the idea of like a more heavier intervention, maybe not something that you need to do on a monthly or
00:48:46
Speaker
yearly basis, but maybe you have some good insight there. I think fasting is, as you said, it's not just like health and what ones should do with their body and their diet is a very not one size fits all. So fasting is not for a weak body.
00:49:08
Speaker
If your body is very malnourished and it's starving and you're tired and all sorts of things, the last thing your body wants to do is starve more. So fasting needs to be analyzed for each individual and the length of time in which they do it and all sorts of things.
00:49:32
Speaker
You know, it's not a bad thing. I think giving the, um, elementary canal, the digestive tract, a break sometimes is very important. Um, but again, like you wouldn't say that to a pregnant woman or breastfeeding woman or a child or, uh, an elderly woman or man who's debilitated, you know, it's, it has to be in the right context and the type and style and timing.
00:50:01
Speaker
And, you know, all is very key in doing it the appropriate way. So again, it's not something like, yeah, everybody should fast. I can't say that, you know, that would be very dishonest in a way, because it again, and even if you are meeting the right conditions to have a fast,
00:50:21
Speaker
Is it right for you? Does it work for you? Do you feel better or worse? Is it too long or too short? You know, like all these things need to be addressed. And again, every culture had a medicine woman or shaman or a witch doctor, you know, in their culture to help people appreciate that because everybody else was going about doing their thing to survive and thrive. The shaman's goal was to really
00:50:48
Speaker
understand the intricacies of the body itself. So in every society, in every community, there's going to always be someone like myself, like other people like me. That's our job. Our job is to assess that. Our job is to be able to
00:51:06
Speaker
you know, listen to your story and understand your body and help you on that journey while you go and, you know, raise your children, create a life, you know, pay your bills, things like that. So not everybody, even though, you know, you could be like, well, but this is my body. I know my body. But not everybody is truly
00:51:27
Speaker
you know, truly understands the language of the body, you know, and so when it comes to fasting, you know, I always tell people do as much research, but I would always say get someone to guide you who truly understands fasting. Good. Yeah. I want to know your thoughts on like the client practitioner relationship, right?
Building Community Connections
00:51:53
Speaker
Because it's like,
00:51:55
Speaker
You know, we use these terms client practitioner, whatever it may be, but it's the same as individual medicine man. You know what I mean? Like it's the same as the individual shaman relationship, right? What, because you, you said something beautiful earlier about how like the shaman has his ear to the ground and kind of knows everything going on, right? What is the, the, the connection there? Is that, is there an importance in kind of like having that person near you or having that a relationship with the person that's kind of healing you and
00:52:25
Speaker
What are your thoughts on that? Oh, totally. I've engaged with a lot of social events and I know the lives of a lot of different people who come into my office. I try to keep tabs on what's going on in their life.
00:52:46
Speaker
fairly friendly way you know just to see you know how their kids are doing how they're doing you know things like that because to me again knowing their story helps me helps me help them to help themselves um so yeah it's i think to truly be a good practitioner to truly be able to help people you have to know more than just what they tell you in
00:53:11
Speaker
in your office. You have to know a lot of things and you have to be part of that community. So yeah, I'm always, it's funny, I always am bumping into somebody that knows somebody who comes to see me or I'm doing something with a person whose mom is the head of something else. It's a very small world for me and I like it that way because again, that keeps me apprised
00:53:40
Speaker
to sometimes for people who are not really good at checking in and telling me how they're doing. And so it's very, very important to me. But at the same time, I also help people abroad, right? So I have clientele that are all over the world. And that doesn't mean that I don't know what's going on with them either, right? So I also have my ear to the ground to different happenings in different countries, right?
00:54:07
Speaker
you know, if they're spraying pesticides on certain crops in certain countries, or if they're passing laws about raw milk in certain countries, you know, I try to keep myself attuned to be a resource when a person, you know, is looking and seeking out for my guidance. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the beauties of the time we live in, I find too, is that, you know,
00:54:36
Speaker
you can also find somebody that really aligns with your way of life and your views, right? So you can kind of, you know, like I'm sure if I was seeking out a practitioner, I stumbled upon your work, it'd be probably beneficial because you know, or thinking in the same manner, right? Like I'm not going to be opposing what you're doing. So I think that's an extremely helpful thing too. I think, yeah, that was a great answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I think of the,
00:55:06
Speaker
the, like the relationship and the communal aspect of it. I enjoy it and it's, you know, but there's moving with the times as well as important too, because it's, this is the, the way the world is now. Um, you know, we can strive to make it better and change it or whatever. You can have really high aspirations. It always all begins with yourself, um, and becoming a better person yourself. But in my opinion, I guess.
00:55:36
Speaker
But I mean, you know, it's, it's, uh, yeah, I think it's important. I think there is that, that communal aspect. Like I quite enjoy going and seeing like the people that I work with and going into their office and kind of hearing that, but it's certainly, certainly big. And I must commend you because it could, it must be a heavy burden as well to, um, to have
00:56:02
Speaker
that such a vast array of knowledge to a month, like working with people so far out, like something that I've been talking about in my master's is kind of practitioner self care, right? So maybe I'll ask you about that. What are some things that you kind of employ to help you in your practice?
00:56:22
Speaker
I read a lot. I read a tremendous amount. I try to do more current readings, but I find myself collecting and collecting and collecting old books, you know, pre World War I, as many as I can get my hands on, you know, to really see and understand
00:56:43
Speaker
the viewpoint before it was infiltrated by the idea of chemistry and chemicals and germs. So I want to keep myself really kind of honed in on making sure that I never sabotage myself with any type of
00:57:00
Speaker
you know, germ, you know, germ theory type mentality, you know, I think for me, I'm very simple in regards to I like just, you know, sunlight and fresh air and make sure that my water is clean. And, you know, everything that touches my skin is, you know, natural fibers. And
00:57:21
Speaker
I just make sure that I practice what I preach constantly. I don't cheat myself of making sure that I'm doing the best for myself so that I can be at top and peak performance for people who I try to help. That doesn't mean, of course, that once in a while I don't go out for an ice cream or eat at a restaurant.
00:57:50
Speaker
But it means that I know to enjoy the times that I want to cheat a little bit and I don't dwell on it. I don't get depressed about it or angry. It is what it is because we are social creatures and we live in this world.
00:58:09
Speaker
But I also understand that I reinforce the body constantly to ensure that when I do have times where I go out and do things and such, that I'm not limited. I'm not sick by it. My body's functioning in the most optimal way. And that's all. I'm just making sure that I'm just optimally
00:58:30
Speaker
you know, going about my day, everything's working and doing and my energy is great. And, you know, I spend time clearing my thoughts of any type of fears or negativity. You know, I play with my children, you know, things like that. I try to try to keep as simple and happy as possible every day. Nice, beautiful. Well, that's very helpful, I'm sure, to many. Yeah, that's great.
00:58:56
Speaker
Well, I think this might be a good time to kind of wrap things up. I want to know any final thoughts from you. I think it's just important for people to understand that, you know, everything that happens in their body, and this is not to say it's a fault perspective, it's more of an understanding that
00:59:19
Speaker
you have the power. It's an empowerment perspective, right? A lot of times people are triggered by the idea that it's everything you're in control of everything and they're triggered by that saying, Oh, now it's all my fault. And it's all this responsibility. And they don't have time, they have to pay bills and go to work. And no, it's more of an empowerment that you are not sub you don't have to be subjected to or subjugated to, you know, taking a certain drug or a shot or a certain way of doing things. Because you think that you don't, you don't have the
00:59:49
Speaker
the wherewithal or the understanding or the empowerment to kind of overcome whatever disease or ale that you have. You have it all that, you know, you can do it, you can change it, whether you seek a professional or whether you do your own research, your body has the power and it has the power in respect to as long as you give it the lack of boundaries and allow it to communicate with nature with again, clean air, clean water, clean foods and lots of sunlight.
01:00:20
Speaker
Right. Right. Amazing final words. Couldn't agree more. I think that's very important. Very, very, very, very, very important. Yeah. And that's something that we talked about. It's taken back your responsibility, taking responsibility for your health and your life. And I think, um, it's central, certainly central. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Right. Well, uh, now I'd like you to maybe tell the listener how they can
01:00:47
Speaker
support you and learn from you and maybe where they can find you on the internet. Sure. I am on Instagram, so I'm Dr. Marisel on Instagram. I'm Dr. Arce on Twitter, and then I have a website, terraindoctor.com, so you can find me on the World Wide Web, right on my website. Great. Yeah, I'll put some links down below as well to make it easy for you guys who want to check her out.
01:01:16
Speaker
Dr. Arce, thank you so much for coming on today. This is a great discussion. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I want to thank you all for listening. You should know this is not medical advice. This is for your informational purposes only. Remember that we're all responsible sovereign beings capable of thinking, criticizing, and understanding absolutely anything. We, the people in the greater forces are together, self healers, self-governable, self teachers, and so much more. Please reach out if you have any questions, comments, criticisms, whatever it may be.
01:01:46
Speaker
on Instagram, you guys know where to find me. Um, please message me. I love talking to you guys. All the messages I get are honestly so motivating and they're also kind. You guys are also great and we have great discussions. So I really appreciate all you guys that listen and reach out. Um, yeah, maybe you give me a like comment, share whatever your, your platform you're on. That's the best way to support my work and what we're doing here. So yeah, that would be, that would be great. I really appreciate all you guys.
01:02:13
Speaker
And just remember, there's two types of people in the world. Those think they can, those think they can't, and they're both correct. All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Take care.