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Green Lantern (2011)
194 Plays10 months ago
Musician Ralph Puma joins the show to remember the movie Ryan Reynolds wishes he could forget. We discuss the few things that work pretty well and the many missteps along the way.
Visit Linktree for all of Ralph's links.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
PARAGONS OF EARTH is a comic book project I’m developing with Thomas Deja and Eric Johns. You can support the project by visiting crowdfundr.com/paragonscomic.
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Transcript
Introduction to Paragons of Earth and Crowdfunding
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey guys, before we get into the episode, I wanted to tell you a little bit about Paragons of Earth, the exciting new superhero comic I'm working on with Thomas DJ and Eric Johns. For this comic, we've unearthed a number of obscure and forgotten Golden Age superheroes, plucked them from the depths of the public domain, and completely redesigned and reinvented them for the modern day. It's an exciting cast of characters, and we're throwing them up against the threat of a Lovecraftian apocalypse.
00:00:24
Speaker
It's got action, it's got drama, it's got alternate dimensions and alien worlds, and it's even got a giant shark and Hawaiian shirt. What else could you want? But in order to make this comic a reality, we need your help. The comic is crowdfunding now, and you can help support it by going to crowdfunder.com slash paragonscomic.
00:00:42
Speaker
That's Crowdfunder Without the E dot com slash Paragons Comic. You'll be able to find that link in the show notes, so please double check if you didn't quite get it. Please help make this comic a reality. We are counting on your support. And now, on with the show. Evening, ma'am.
00:01:13
Speaker
Didn't get a chance to say goodbye. Are you okay? No, I'm glad to have a chance to thank you. Just doing my job. No thanks necessary, miss. No, it is. You saved my life. You saved all of our lives. That was a very... How? Miss.
00:01:43
Speaker
Hal? Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god, Hal! How did you know it was me? What do you mean? I've known you my whole life. I've seen you naked. You don't think I would recognize you because I can't see your cheekbones? What is this? Why is your skin green? Why are you glowing? What the hell is with that mask? It came with the outfit. Cool, huh?
00:02:09
Speaker
So it all works because of this magic ring? No, there's no such thing as magic. Intergalactic green peacekeepers. Thousands of them. But, uh, no. I'm not making it up. Well, I mean, we were kids for the fun. I did, actually. I called this early on. I said, one day I'll be a green space cop. Here I am.
00:02:37
Speaker
Okay, so at the party, how did you make that big green ramp thing? Anything I see in my mind, I can create. I just have to focus. Anything?
00:03:10
Speaker
Okay, so how does it work? They just call you on your cell, cat in a tree, downtown Milky Way? No, I don't think it works exactly like that. Well, technically speaking, I actually sort of quit. What do you mean? Well, I mean, it's a lot like quitting anything else, really.
00:03:34
Speaker
I don't understand. How do you walk away from something like that? Is this even possible? I think we probably know I'm pretty good at walking away. If for once you didn't quit something you cared about, that's the worst that could happen.
Ralph Puma's Creative Journey
00:03:53
Speaker
Flip in that page. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and welcoming a new guest today, and that is Ralph Puma. Ralph, how are you doing today?
00:04:03
Speaker
Very good. Thank you so much for having me. I am very excited to dig into this film. Well, I'm excited to talk to you. I've been listening to you for a while whenever you appear on our mutual friend Anthony's digging for kryptonite show and always enjoyed your interactions on there and the Grant Morrison commentary you've done before. So looking forward to talking with you here about this movie today.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, Anthony and I have known each other for years. We used to work together at alternate. That's how we met. And then from there, just a friendship developed and he used my music in a movie of his. So it was really it. Him podcasting was just a natural progression in his like artistic endeavors. And I'm just lucky to be a part of it every now and then. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a great show. Your appearances are always always a treat. I'm hoping that you and Mike I'm blanking on his his last name, but
00:04:59
Speaker
Yes, yes. I would love to see you two do a Grant Morrison deep dive podcast at some point. Yeah, for sure. I would love to do that with him too. Him and I always bother Anthony. We have a small group, yeah, just the three of us, and we're always pestering him. What are we going to do? The invisibles. What are we going to do this?
00:05:15
Speaker
There is an Invisibles podcast, but it's been dormant for years. So definitely I would love for someone to jump into that. I did my own dip into the Grant Morrison podcasting realm a few years back with New X-Men. So I've already- Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. It was a fun experience going back through that. That's awesome. But before we jump too much into the movie, why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself?
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Ralph Puma. I'm primarily a musician. I was in a punk band for most of my life and now I just kind of release singles and make music as, you know, time allows. I'm a filmmaker as well. I created a show about a comic book store. It's called Solace. You can find it on YouTube.
00:06:00
Speaker
I'm currently re-editing it into a feature. So for the 10-year anniversary of it being released next year, hopefully I'll have it all cut together into like a cohesive like hour and a half long kind of feature. And we'll maybe see what we can do with that. Awesome. That's cool. Do you have a timeframe on when you're hoping that'll be released?
00:06:20
Speaker
We started filming in July of 2014, so if I can hit it for July 2014 to do that, that'd be fantastic. But I don't want to put any deadlines on it because I've still got, I think, 80 hours of footage to go through. Yeah, I know how deadlines work with being an author. There's been stuff I've been promising that was supposed to come out and has not yet come out, so I totally get that. Yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
And you mentioned that you worked at a comic book store with Anthony, but how did you get into superheroes in the first place? Alright, so apparently this is the way my mom told it to me, but I'll tell her perspective leading into my perspective, which was in first or second grade, I wasn't really interested in any of the books being offered at that time. I was either reading ahead or I was bored by what was available.
00:07:17
Speaker
And so
Superhero Comics and Green Lantern Fascination
00:07:18
Speaker
we kind of wandered into this convenience store. And on the rack, she just basically was like, pick something. And so I pulled a Spider-Man comic and a Green Lantern comic. And those were kind of my first two. And it was Kyle Rayner Green Lantern with like the introduction of the character Fatality.
00:07:38
Speaker
and the Ben Riley when he had taken over for Peter when he was in the hospital. So those were kind of my first two introductions to comic books in the first place and then I was hooked. What really like
00:07:53
Speaker
made me latch on to Green Lantern was I was wandering one of like the, you know, like how the malls sometimes have like the flea markets where everybody sets up like their like cards and their comic books, I was wandering through a flea market in the cross county mall. And this guy had an array of all of the total justice action figure. Oh, I remember those.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And so those were cool. And I had known those. And obviously Batman and Superman. To me, it was almost like I knew who those characters were from movies beforehand. But there was a parallax action figure, a Hal Jordan parallax action figure. And I was like, wait, that's Green Lantern. And the guy there was like, no, it's not. And I was like, no, no, that's Green Lantern. He's got the symbol. And he's like, no, no, he's a bad guy. And I was like, wait, what?
00:08:44
Speaker
And I remember just being like, wait, explain this. And that whole concept of how's journey and descent into madness, I don't know why. It was like, you know how kids latch on to Venom because he's so terrifying that he's like this wonderful character to get into because he's so scary, but he's kind of funny and he's kind of interesting, but he's accessible to children. He's not too scary that he doesn't scare them away. It was something like that.
00:09:10
Speaker
about parallax that like completely enthralled me with the Green Lantern universe and I wanted to learn more about all of that. Awesome, cool. So yeah, I remember those total justice action figures. I was never a big DC guy growing up. I was always more into the Marvel side of things. But you know, I knew, you know, like you Batman and Superman from from the movies, they were as far as as far back as my memory goes. I've already I've always had Batman and Superman in my life. I've always had knowledge of them. But
00:09:39
Speaker
So I can remember when I was introduced to Spider-Man and the X-Men and all the Marvel characters, but I cannot remember the first time I was introduced to Batman and Superman. But I do remember those Total Justice action figures and at first being drawn to them because it was billed as like the Batman Total Justice line.
00:09:56
Speaker
So you had Batman in there, you had Superman with the with the mullet back at the time. And then they also had like Green Lantern and Flash and Parallax. And yeah, I had all of those. And then later when they expanded the line, they brought in like Zariel that that I love that because I love I'd gotten into Grant Morrison's JLA at the time, too. Yep. And
00:10:19
Speaker
I think that was probably my first introduction to Green Lantern was those total justice action figures. So my first Green Lantern was Kyle Rayner in the realm of toys. Oh, that's awesome. Very cool. So that's kind of how you got introduced. So have you tended to gravitate more towards Green Lantern pretty much the whole time you've been a comic book fan? Has your fandom remained pretty strong with him the whole time?
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah, I would say I even carried through the Jeff John stuff, even though I was more of a Kyle person. You know, Nightwing was pretty early on for me, so I kind of followed through any of the Nightwing Bat family stuff. Superman was kind of lost on me because when I started, it was that what Anthony was talking about with the that was at the Titans, where you could like stack the comics and it like built like, yeah,
00:11:14
Speaker
So like Superman was almost lost to me entirely at that point because I couldn't get into those stories because it was that terrible arc. But you know, X-Men really, I gravitated towards X-Men, I gravitated towards Spider-Man and
00:11:35
Speaker
leading up to, I would say, Final Crisis, I kind of stuck with DC and Marvel. Once Final Crisis happened, it kind of felt like an ending to me. And it was almost like, all right, what else is out there? And that's when I started digging into, like, Walking Dead and Invincible. And I started branching out into much more because I was old enough to, you know, have my own funds. And so now going through the comic bookshop and I was like, this looks interesting and no one can tell me it's too mature for me.
00:12:04
Speaker
So it was like Invincible, Walking Dead. All of that kind of kept me into the image stuff. But I kept gravitating back towards Batman RIP and Final Crisis. And I didn't know why, because I, like a lot of people, had almost this visceral reaction towards both of them.
00:12:28
Speaker
an R.I.P. is too convoluted, it doesn't make sense. Final Crisis, it's supposed to be this great event, but I don't really get it. But still, it somehow felt like an ending to me, so I kept going back to those books and I was like, okay, who wrote these? Grant Morrison, what else did he write? Wait, what do you mean he wrote that Justice League run I loved when I was a child? Wait, what do you mean he wrote New Ex... So it was like, oh, I was starting to put together these pieces of who this person was,
00:12:56
Speaker
And I then started exploring, you know, I started with Doom Patrol, and that was incredible. And I was like, I need more of this. And then that's what eventually led me to The Invisibles. And after I had read The Invisibles is when I heard him talk on
00:13:16
Speaker
Fat Man on Batman about his- Oh, I remember that episode. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, man, this guy, there's something there. And that also brought me into studying and loving the occult. And it was just this whole rabbit hole from Grant Morrison and comic books that led me to pretty much everything I love and how I behave as a human and move about within the world.
00:13:42
Speaker
I'm guessing you've read Supergods then as well, too. Yes, absolutely. I love that book. I devour that like in one sitting pretty much because it was just so addictive. But yeah, Grant Morrison, they I read some of their Justice, their JLA stuff because it was like the big book at the time when I was reading Wizard back in the day. And so so I've read some stuff here and there of that. But then it was
00:14:06
Speaker
it was new X-Men that really got me into them. And then from there I branched out into, ended up reading up the whole JLA stuff and then branching out into Doom Patrol and then the Invisibles and their Bat. And yeah, like you, like the Batman stuff and the Final Crisis stuff, at first it was kind of lost on me, but over time and through multiple readings plus hearing other interpretations, such as the episode you did with, I think you did the Final Crisis episode with Anthony.
00:14:36
Speaker
One of them. Yeah. Yeah. And that gave me a whole new perspective on those comics and just going back and rereading them now. I'm just like, it's.
00:14:48
Speaker
It's one of those books that just had, it rewards multiple readings of it. Even stuff like Marble Boy, like it's just like this one little miniseries they did back in the day and going back and rereading it now with like all the corporate stuff going on. It rings so much more relevant than it, even New X-Men reads so much more relevant now than it did at the time.
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, they have a way of their foresight into the direction that industry and the direction that society moves is really, they're really onto something. And I think it's their love of Robert Anton Wilson and his kind of thought processes that get them to that place. Absolutely, yes. So what kind of stuff are you interested in lately? What's kind of been grabbing your attention these days?
00:15:35
Speaker
I've been actually going down a Stephen King rabbit hole. I've, you know, I've loved Stephen King most of my life, loves his movies, loves some of his books, but I'm kind of doing it all in order for the first time. I'm just kind of listening to audiobooks on long walks and kind of that's been keeping me company. I've got Luda coming up though, which is Grant Morrison's new book that I haven't checked out yet. Oh, I didn't even hear about that.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's like it's it's about a drag queen who like brings someone into the occult. So I'm like all about it. Is that is that a comic or is that a prose? It's it's a prose novel. Oh, OK. OK. Interesting. I'll have to keep it out about like two years ago. Oh, wow. Yeah, I kind of gravitate more towards audiobooks because I can digest them so much. Yeah. So much quicker listening on like two times speed. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:28
Speaker
I do that with nonfiction books a lot. Yeah. Yeah, for me, I think what I've been into, it's tough. I've had so little time these days because I've had like marathon podcast recording sessions. So most of the stuff I've been watching has been for this show and the other show I do Japan on film. So I've had a whole lot of time to dive into stuff just for pure enjoyment. But I have
00:16:52
Speaker
just like the past few days I started reading Batman beyond the beyond the White Knight so it's the oh nice the third or I mean I know he did the Harley Quinn one too so I guess that I guess that was like 2.5 or something but this is like the third major volume and
00:17:08
Speaker
in the series. And I loved the first two, like White Knight and Cursed the White Knight. So when I saw this one had come out, I've been waiting for it to come on sale on Amazon. And then finally it came on sale like last week. So I bought it right away.
00:17:24
Speaker
Nice. I haven't I haven't dove into any of those. So I don't know what like that whole else worlds or that reality is. It's really cool. It's it's a it's an interesting I mean, he does some interesting things too, just like with the changes he makes the bat family. Like for some reason he has Jason being the first Robin and Dick being the second one, which is an interesting flip on the dynamic.
00:17:47
Speaker
Also Joker is actually Jack Napier so he got that from the first movie but he also incorporates like he's got the different Batmobiles and he shows he draws like all the different Batmobiles from the movies and the TV shows and like the Batcave and stuff like that. So he mixes in all these different aspects from different interpretations of Batman over the years and
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really interesting. It's been a really interesting series. And it's really cool like reading it. And now in Beyond the White Knight, obviously, he's brought in Terry McGinnis and Derek Powers and tied them into tied Derek Powers into Batman's origin story in a in a way. So it's all been a pretty cool read. So I'm really been enjoying digging into
Expectations for the 2011 Green Lantern Film
00:18:28
Speaker
that. And it's and it's all correct me if I'm wrong, all Sean, Sean Murphy, right? Yes, he's doing he's doing he's writing and he's doing the art and his art style is is amazing. Like I
00:18:38
Speaker
I keep, like whenever DC's announcing these new animated stuff, I'm just like, do the white knight already. This would be so cool if you did this. Yeah, punk rock Jesus is one of those, if I could ever direct something that was like a, I want to do punk rock Jesus so bad. I've got to read that. I read descriptions of it and it sounds really cool. I wasn't aware that was Murphy though. Yeah. So that's another reason why I definitely have to pick that up.
00:19:01
Speaker
Okay, so, you know, we hinted at this earlier, but today the movie we're talking about is the much maligned 2011 Green Lantern film starring Ryan Reynolds as Hal Jordan and directed by Martin Campbell. And surprisingly, like Greg Berlanti had wrote the script for this. I didn't realize that until just now. And it's kind of funny going back and seeing this and seeing like how
00:19:30
Speaker
how far Greg Berlanti's come since this movie, this inauspicious beginning to his DC career, as far as I know, at least. Yeah, absolutely. I was looking through all of that as well. And, you know, Martin Campbell's has some of my favorite movies in there as well, like the the Zorro films and Casino Royale is so good. Casino, he's the probably the two best modern Bond films would be GoldenEye and Casino Royale, and he directed both of them. Yep.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's what surprised me, because I was so looking forward to this movie. Even like me, I'm not really a big Green Lantern fan. I never really caught on to Green Lantern in the comics. Most of my exposure to the character was through the Justice League stuff. And then I had eventually read some stuff here and there. I read Emerald Twilight, I read Rebirth, and I think it was the No Fear arc that the first one he did after Rebirth.
00:20:26
Speaker
Um, but that was pretty much it outside of like the, the just sleek stuff. I was never that familiar with, uh, Green Lantern, but from what I had read, I had always leaned more towards Kyle as my Green Lantern. Um, and Hal just never really interested me that much, but I love Ryan Reynolds and I love Martin Campbell. So when both of them were announced, I'm just like, okay, so this is probably a way that might get me interested in, in Hal Jordan. And it didn't quite work out that way.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, so just a side note, when I was like 14, I had written out six movies to make a Green Lantern movie series. So I was very invested in Green Lantern becoming a film. And when it was announced, I was so excited because I was also a fan of Ryan Reynolds from like Just Friends. And
00:21:19
Speaker
And I thought he would be a perfect way to give Hal some personality because, you know, Hal Jordan, cocky, kind of conservative. And that's kind of like all you kind of really get about Hal. And I think Ryan Reynolds would have added in a lot of interesting layers to the performance. And I was very excited. And all over my social media, I was posting about it. And I was like, this is going to be the one. Like you thought Iron, like you thought these movies were good.
00:21:45
Speaker
Not Iron Man, but he thought these movies were good, but this is the superhero movie that's gonna really show you what these films can do. And yeah, boy was I disappointed at the time. Yeah, I'm trying to think back about what I thought at the time, because I was already in Japan when this movie came out, so I don't think I even saw it in the theater, because especially back then, the superhero release schedule was usually
00:22:15
Speaker
three months or more behind America. And it wasn't until Avengers hit big that then they started releasing them almost same day as they do in America now. So yeah, I did not see this in the theater. I think I might have seen it like a download of it or something. Originally a pirated cam version or something was what I saw of it.
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah, I, you know, for the longest time I was trying to think like, Oh, it's not too bad I eventually bought it on DVD when it came out and, you know, re watched a few times like, yeah, I think I had told myself I liked it a lot more after I'd watched and I think a big reason why was because of Ryan Reynolds because I
00:22:58
Speaker
I really wanted to like this movie at the time. Like you, I really liked Ryan Reynolds in Just Friends. My first introduction with him was Van Wilder. I've been looking forward to him playing Deadpool. And he's one of those actors that, yeah, he plays kind of the same character in every single movie, but it's an endearing character. And even if the movie's bad, it's still entertaining to watch him in it.
00:23:25
Speaker
I think I kind of convinced myself that and also I, I'm also kind of one of those people who when everybody says all this movie's terrible, it's terrible. I'm kind of like, well, maybe there's some I kind of like to play a little bit of a devil's advocate and be like, No, there's some good stuff in it. So and then when I was rewatching it, for this episode, it was
00:23:48
Speaker
I'm not gonna say it's a completely worthless movie. It's not like Morbius level or anything like that, but it's got some good things in it. But overall, it's just kind of meh. It just kind of drags a lot. And we can talk about the CGI too, because I think that's also a weakness of this film in retrospect too. But what were some things you thought about it when you first saw it?
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, so I was obsessed. I not like with the movie, but leading up to it. I was like refreshing every day. I was like, Oh my god, they cast Michael Clarke Duncan. And oh my god, like it was like super nerding out every like bit of information. I was deep diving on like IGN comic book movie wherever I can find any info on this movie. I was like tracking it because this was something that as a kid, I always dreamed that I was going to be the one to do it. So but
00:24:42
Speaker
You know, obviously you get older and reality sets in and like, all right, at least I'm going to be able to be around when it exists and the movie is going to happen. So following it as crazily as I could.
00:24:59
Speaker
I had my first moment of panic when I saw the suit for the first time. And I was like, this does not look good. Okay. But maybe, maybe, maybe it'll work on the screen. Maybe I'm wrong. And then I saw like all the alien suits and I was like, okay, I see what they're doing. I see how it works. Great. Then I went to the theaters and I remember not feeling much of anything and being like,
00:25:27
Speaker
Well, this is the thing I love and they kind of did it, but it's nowhere near what it should have been. And I think this time I watched the extended version for the first time. It was only a couple of scenes here and there.
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah, from what I looked into seeing about the extended version, because I'd heard that it was out there. But from the research I had done, it didn't seem like there were any real it didn't seem like, you know, when I heard there's an extended version, I was thinking, oh, maybe it's like a Daredevil situation where the extended version is actually much better than the theatrical one. But when I did some research on on it, most people that I had that had talked about it said that, yeah, it's not really that much different.
00:26:14
Speaker
No, it just adds in what should have been the beginning of the movie, which is young Hal and exploring just a small bit of like his dynamic with Hector and young Carol and his father and then him watching what happened to his dad. So like that's really the crux of what is added.
00:26:35
Speaker
Okay, and that doesn't even feel like it was really necessary because I thought that the what we got in the movie is established that pretty well in the theatrical cut. So I didn't feel like there was anything. I mean, I think there is definitely stuff that you could have added in there. I mean, we could talk about the whole idea of throwing parallax into this movie and just like how I think that's one of the biggest problems with this movie is that they cram way too much stuff into into this one film, too.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah. I wanted to come in hot and really defend it because, I mean, you're getting a Ryan Reynolds Taika Waititi movie film. Like that in and of itself should be like a selling point for people nowadays because of, you know, everything Taika's done and Deadpool and it's kind of this early rumblings of like all of nerddom is kind of shoved into this film. Yeah.
00:27:27
Speaker
I was really hoping that this next watch through I'd be able to fully like be able to be like, nope, I'm on board. I was wrong. Because I for the longest time, you know, was kind of anti the X-Men and Raimi Spider-Man films. But now I'm watching it with my seven year old stepson and I'm like,
00:27:47
Speaker
Oh, these movies are actually great. They're solid films. I don't know what was wrong with me where maybe it was just like, they're not exactly what I was looking for, but they're still like, you actually get the X-Men, you actually get Spider-Man, and you get the themes, and they're done really well. Yeah.
00:28:06
Speaker
So now going back to Green Lantern, after having watched most of those again, I'm like, it's completely missing the mark because the themes aren't even there. The themes aren't even clear. And all of the stuff that I would have loved to have seen more of, they shove into a 10 minute sequence.
00:28:28
Speaker
So I can't defend it as fervently as I would have liked to. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when you'd asked to come onto this. I'm just like, Oh, Green Lantern, this would be good. I can, you know, I get a chance to defend this movie because I think it's actually not as bad as people say and.
00:28:43
Speaker
Well, I think I still believe that to some extent. I don't think it's like I said, I don't think it's completely terrible movie. It's it's got some moments in it. But I I also after I watched, I'm just like, yeah, I don't think I could really defend this a lot. There's there's some things I can defend, but there's a lot that just kind of misses the mark. But one thing you said in there, I'm curious about because mean, again, not being very big into Green Lantern. What would you say kind of are those major themes of the concept?
Critique on Green Lantern's Themes and Execution
00:29:14
Speaker
Um...
00:29:16
Speaker
you know, obviously overcoming fear, right? So they talk about it a lot, but I don't think there's anything, you know, there's the moment where he's fighting parallax and he's looking away and he's scared of him, but then he looks at him and he does the thing. And it's a powerful moment, but I don't think it like encapsulates like overcoming fear because his whole thing was getting over the fear of losing his father. And that kind of goes away.
00:29:45
Speaker
You know what I mean? All of these things that they're seeing in the beginning of the film, just taking it as it is, not even thinking about the comic book itself, but just taking the film as it is, you set up that what happened with his father gave him fear. But you don't really resolve that aspect of it.
00:30:03
Speaker
you know he overcomes being afraid of you know and running away but that's not even it's not even really explained to why he's running away so much you know it's just there's no nothing kind of ties together and i felt that way about Hammond and Hal as well they're don't really you know they're both coming from privilege they're both kind of given they're both following in their parents footsteps
00:30:27
Speaker
but one kind of feels like a loser and that's what's kind of their battle and it's and that's kind of not really yeah that is jealous of how right that is something that you can absolutely play up but i don't think there was enough moments where you see hector seeing how
00:30:48
Speaker
from a distance and feeling that. Well, yeah, I mean, that scene at the party when they see each other and they start talking, I remember the first time watching kind of being a little bit surprised, the fact that they are, oh, they know each other? Okay, this feels like it's kind of coming out of nowhere. And then the whole, and they try and throw in the fact that they've got this backstory and they know each other. And yeah, maybe the extended edition makes that a little bit more clear, but it still felt,
00:31:18
Speaker
It still felt like a pretty forced interaction, not only that, but also I think credit to Hal too. When Hector's father comes in, he starts praising Hal. He's indirectly trying to throw some support Hector's way too. He's like, well, I couldn't do what I do without the smart guys building the planes in the first place and all this kind of stuff.
00:31:44
Speaker
there's just like zero acknowledgement from Hector at all. And I felt like there could have been something a little bit more to play with there at least.
00:31:54
Speaker
Absolutely. Because I don't think the performances are bad. I think a lot of people say that the performances are bad. And some of Blake Lively's choices are questionable. But outside of questionable choices, which aren't bad, once again, they're very big choices that she's making in certain scenes.
00:32:17
Speaker
You also have Sarsgaard doing the most. His screams in that are like Roger Rabbit, the judge terrifying sometimes. But they're both huge. She's not giving huge choices like that, but she is still making choices that are interesting. And I think everybody in this film does. I don't think any of the performances are bad. But I agree with you that the pacing is so...
00:32:46
Speaker
bland and boring. I remember, I think it was right after the race car scene at the dinner party and I scrubbed for time and I was like, oh, there's an hour left. I was thinking that too.
00:33:05
Speaker
And so you like shove in all of this OA stuff really fast, right? You're like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And that's all the stuff that I would have loved to have seen more of, like give more training, show more recruits coming in because, you know, Green Lanterns are basically cannon fodder. All of these Green Lanterns are dying. Why isn't there a big recruitment happening? You know? Well, I mean, yeah, that's what I think.
00:33:29
Speaker
The things I love the most about this is the stuff on OA. I think that's when the film really kind of is firing on all cylinders. When Hal goes to OA and he's meeting the other Green Lanterns and he's training with Sinestro and Killawag, I love those parts of the movie. I thought those are the best parts of the film.
00:33:48
Speaker
you know, yeah, the CGI is kind of wanky, but it's still, that's still what I feel like everybody is actually having fun in those scenes. Whereas the rest of the movie, it just feels like they're kind of going through emotions for the rest of it.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think that early like early on I love the the verse the AI like air fight scene like there's something about that that it just works it brings you into the movie the movie feels fast paced like it has like a Top Gun kind of vibe this whole like opening of the film. I think you don't really need the the beginning exposition like who like
00:34:26
Speaker
We want to hear about the Guardians and Sector 2814, but what audience goer is going to... You're starting with that? Yeah. Yeah. It's such a bad place to start, especially because my late co-host, he used to say that the
00:34:43
Speaker
the opening image of a movie is like, you know, the first scene in the movie, it really kind of sets the tone for the rest of the movie. And that opening scene in that movie, it's this really terrible looking CGI creature that's attacking the Green Lantern. It's just like, yeah, and when I was rewatching it last night, I was thinking about, what are you used to say about that? I'm like, yep, that really does kind of set the tone for this movie. You're gonna get this really kind of like cheesy looking CGI monster just rushing at you.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, and it's such a, you have Hal who is supposed to be this point of view character, right? You should be following the story along with him. You started as a kid, you go into this, people don't know what to expect. No one knows what Green Lantern is. This is an introduction to something completely new to people. Everyone knows Batman, everyone knows Superman. This is before Guardians of the Galaxy.
00:35:42
Speaker
there's not been a good space superhero yet. And you start with this just like five minute exposition dump. Like I'm already out. Like if I'm watching this and I'm like, all right, well, I guess this is that kind of sci-fi movie.
00:36:01
Speaker
No, yeah, I think you're right about that dog fight sequence. I think, you know, you open up the movie with that. I mean, that's a killer opening. It gives you those, like you said, those top gun vibes. It gives you a sense of hell as a character right from the start without going like the, like him waking up in bed with this random girl too. I thought that was kind of just, kind of like unnecessary. Like it wasn't that it was bad for his character. It just felt like, I feel like there's a better way to get introduced to this guy.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, you have this top gun. One of my friends always said that the only way to do Green Lantern right would be to do, oh my God, I'm completely blanking on the film now, but it'll come back to me. Training day, you do training day. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that's it. And you have a Green Lantern movie with just that.
00:36:51
Speaker
That's an interesting way to do it. Yeah, because you've got the, you know, Sinestro is kind of like the Denzel Washington character, and then, yeah, and Hal is like the Ethan Hawke. That would definitely work, but I remember thinking about when you said Top Gun it too, I remember thinking like, you know, back in the day, like it would have been cool to see like Tom Cruise in like a Hal Jordan type of role, because I think that would have fit back in his like Top Gun days. Absolutely. And if you'd done this kind of like a mix of Top Gun and Training Day, I think that would have been a really interesting route to take.
00:37:22
Speaker
And and you know, it's so weird because you're talking about the cast, too. And I was thinking about the cast, too, as I was watching this. And it's like, my God, this has got some amazing spot on casting like you've got, you know, like you said, you know, Ryan Reynolds as as how like I was I'm also like with you, like I've never felt that Hal had much of a personality. I know a lot of Green Lantern fans are probably going to want to roast me alive for saying that, but that was just always kind of my impression of him.
00:37:48
Speaker
and you get Ryan Reynolds, it's very similar. You could have had a very similar thing like with the Downey as Tony Stark. And the Iron Man comparisons are so interesting because you could tell that DC wanted this to be their Iron Man movie. And that is a good comparison because
00:38:09
Speaker
like Tony, like you said, Hal's kind of like this cocky, but also very conservative character. That's also Tony Stark in the comics to a large extent too. And so what they do is they bring in Robert Downey Jr. He brings in this more kind of snarky personality to it and makes him a little bit funnier, a little bit more endearing by doing that as opposed to Tony in the comics who is a much more dry and he's not as
00:38:37
Speaker
he's not as entertaining to read about. And you could have had a very similar situation with Hal Jordan, where you'd have, you know, Ryan Reynolds coming in, he can do cocky, sure, but he's also, he's got this endearing personality that, you know, you don't hate him because he's cocky. And yeah, it's just weird how much they missed the mark on this role with that. Also, Bradley Cooper was another one who was up for the role too, who would have done a pretty good job in that too, or Chris Pine too.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah, any of those. And yeah, Blake Lively, she didn't impress me too much. But I think, like you said, that's probably more just because of the way her character is written, because this is very much like, I mean, the whole the love interest gets kidnapped by the villain type of thing that was
00:39:25
Speaker
That was old even before 2011. By the time Spider-Man 3 came along, audiences were getting kind of tired of that trope. Yeah, I remember I think it was around the time of Thor the Dark World where Marvel had like a come to Jesus moment where they were like, maybe we don't have the same structure where the girl gets kidnapped and is not helpful. Yes, exactly.
00:39:49
Speaker
I think it was right around like Thor the Dark World where we saw that shift out of that story structure and there's. Well, I think it was actually I think it was actually Iron Man three because that was when that was when Pepper kind of like broke out and like kind of took over the the climax of the film. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, and then you've got.
00:40:10
Speaker
Peter Sarsgaard, Hector Hammond, like you said, I thought he did a pretty good job, again, with what he was, Mark Strong, I think is probably the MVP of this movie. He is great in this. I hope we get some of these, what they're doing with the Marvel characters and they're kind of bringing in
00:40:29
Speaker
you know, Hugh Jackman and things like that. I just hope that James Gunn, even though he's going all new, that we can like kind of pull Ryan Reynolds and Mark Strong and maybe because Mark Strong is so perfect for Sinatra. Yeah, I mean, I think you could probably get Mark Strong. I think I think Ryan's probably pretty done with Green Lantern by this point.
Casting and CGI Issues in Green Lantern
00:40:51
Speaker
In fact, you had mentioned the Taiko Waititi thing. Did you ever see the interview they did about Free Guy when the promotion?
00:40:58
Speaker
No. So they were doing this interview with the other cast members, a free guy, and Ryan Reynolds and Taika Waititi, they were talking about how it's like, yeah, we've been friends for a long time. This is the first time we've actually done a movie together. And the rest of the cast members were like, wait, weren't you guys in another movie together a few years back? And Ryan and Taika were just like, no, no, can't remember. Yeah, yeah, wasn't it Green Lantern or something? And Ryan's like, no, no, I don't remember that at all.
00:41:30
Speaker
I wanted to talk about where Ryan shines. That moment with his family is so good where he walks in and he has that hesitation and then he's so cavalier about it. It all felt real and it all felt like hell. You have this big
00:41:49
Speaker
Air Force moment, he gets fired or put under investigation, and then you have the family. And all of that, it's all tracking so far. And even when he leaves the family, I don't care that he's not sitting in the training simulator and that's where he gets pulled. I love that he gets pulled from his family.
00:42:07
Speaker
because you've now shown like what the stakes are for him, right? He's got this loving family there, like his brother's mad at him, not because, you know, he wants to be mad. He's mad at him because he doesn't want his brother to die. Yeah, he has a kid that cares about him. That's like hugs him and is scared for him and his mother. You can see that there's all this stuff there. And then he gets pulled away to like join a space like police force and like all of that tracks and all of that can be followed.
00:42:37
Speaker
What like I don't know why it just loses me after that is like suddenly. Carol shows up and she's kind of fine with him because it kind of worked out and then he's in an alleyway and he beats up the working class with the first thing he does with his powers. The guys who lost his their job because of him.
00:43:00
Speaker
He grabs a fist full of like like bolts and he's gonna hit him with them and then he just green lantern fists Well, I mean it does kind of fit the conservative ethos of the character if you know You you screw the working class and then you beat up on them just just for good measure
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah, we're going back to the Denny O'Neill days. But like, like, that's kind of where it starts to fall apart for me. But like, you know, if in that moment, like the ring would have been like, you messed up, you have to report back to OA. And so like, he then gets sent back up, which right after that scene he does. And then he's faced with like the new world. And that's when the whole audience should have been introduced.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that they introduced the Green Lanterns before that, and we saw like Sinestro talking with the Guardians, it loses that impact when Hal goes to Oa. Because yeah, you're right. The first time Hal sees Oa is the first time we should see it too. That should be all of our transitions into that new world. Yeah. Because now you're faced, you've seen one alien that was humanoid, but now you're seeing a fish person.
00:44:17
Speaker
Yeah. But also other characters, too, like, you know, Angela Bassett, like she's not my first choice for Amanda Waller. I think, you know, I don't I don't like going with an actress as so so fit for Amanda Waller. But at the same time, too, like that she's someone who's got the chops for that role and she does a pretty good job with what she's doing. And even like the little we get little those little brief teases of her origin from the comics with Cabrini Green and the death of her her her husband and all that kind of stuff.
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah, and I love even, you know, Senator Hammond, like the father. Yeah, Tim Robbins. Yeah. Another great actor who gets into this. Like, there's so much talent in this. Jeffrey Rush as Tamar Ray. Like you mentioned, Michael Clark Duncan as Killawag, who is, you know, amazing. Yeah. And then you get that 10 minute sequence on OA. And every moment of that, I was like, this could be longer.
00:45:11
Speaker
And then it would like the Tomar Ray and how that was great. And then like, okay, I need more. Oh, wait. Okay. Now we're, now we're flying. All right. Now we've introduced Kilowog. Okay. Kilowog beats him up for five minutes and now he's getting beat up by Sinestro. And then Tomar Ray then explains, and that's where the exposition dump should have been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also too, the, um,
00:45:36
Speaker
Oh, what was I gonna say? I completely lost my train of thought there. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. It's my fault. Let's move on to something else we'll probably... Oh, the mask I wanted to talk about. I don't know about you, but I couldn't understand why the need for Hal to get blue eyes, like these really ghostly looking blue eyes when his mask is on. I guess they're trying to kind of mimic the feel of the white eyes from the comics, but it just felt very off-putting for me.
00:46:05
Speaker
I agree with you about that, and especially when he does the oath for the first time. I remember I went back and rewatched it, and he does this trance, and it's being sent to him by the ring because the way that they explain it is the ring, which could be a character in and of itself that could be talking to him.
00:46:27
Speaker
because it does do that in the comics. They take that aspect away, and so it looks like he's not of his own volition saying this. Yeah, that bothered me as well. And you're taking agency away from the character, which once again, all action should be driven by a character, and that felt like the action had dictated that the character has to say the thing because it's in the comic books.
00:46:56
Speaker
they're going to say it now because they have to get it right so they can move on to the next scene. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was another thing that, that bothers me too. Every time I see this, cause I'm like, I'm like that, that oath, the whole purpose of an oath is that you are committing yourself to this idea. It, it loses that if, if the oath is done for you by this ring against your will. And that should have been something when the oath is explained to him on OA or something like that. And it just,
00:47:26
Speaker
And the fact that they just did it that way to have a scene where Ryan Reynolds gets to make some joke oaths type of thing, but it sapped that scene of the weight it's supposed to have.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, like I like I love that jokiness of it. I love the To infinity and beyond. And then like he clinks it. And then like, from there, it should have been like you hear it, right? Or like, you know, in brightest day, or like it appears in like, you know, green letters around it and like, or, you know, there could have been something visual or auditory that could have been done to guide it versus it feeling it felt like it took away his agency.
00:48:10
Speaker
and it should be something that he willingly wants to do. Now, there was a perfect moment, and I'm a screenwriter, so I keep doing all of these what-ifs with this, and I'm sorry if that's- No, no, no, that's totally fine. He leaves OA after he's beat up by Sinestro and is like, I'm not good enough for this. He should have been with Sinestro at that massacre.
00:48:41
Speaker
that would have been because yeah if you see if he's at that massacre and you see people's like souls being dragged out of their bodies and flames and fire like what happened to his father and you relate this giant you know smoke monster to the smoke and the fire that was around your father like then that's like you have this visual like nope can't do that gotta do this is i'm not doing that i just dealt with my family i have to go back to them goodbye and then like
00:49:10
Speaker
you know what that's because the the scene in the in the dogfight when he starts remembering his father i you know like i said that that dogfight scene is great but the the flashbacks and the way he freezes up like that i felt that was kind of drawn out and it felt a little bit out of place for that moment and i think the way you're talking about if if he had had like froze up or something in the plane but we didn't see why
00:49:33
Speaker
And then we get these hints about his father when his brother gets mad at him. And then if we then got the scene when, like you said, your idea of where him and Sinestro find the bodies, and then you get the splashbacks, I think that would have been so much more impactful. Yeah, and it's like, he almost seems like too much of a coward, right? He's not faced with the threat. He's not faced with the existential threat that drives him home.
00:49:59
Speaker
No, it's just the, and I want, this is what I want to talk about. I remember this now, but it was the fact that he keeps, you know, quitting things like he quits, quits the core, he quits, you know, Ferris aircraft. And then later when he's having that, when he's talking with, with Carol and he's telling her is like, Oh, I quit, I quit. And she's like, she's like, why don't you, you know, try not quitting something you're, you're like this for once.
00:50:22
Speaker
And it's just like, I get the point the movie's trying to make, that he's quitting because he's afraid, but it doesn't do a good job of connecting those dots. And you're right, it just feels like either he's a coward or he's just way too much of a slacker, or he's just too irresponsible to handle this stuff. Yeah.
00:50:45
Speaker
Um, so he goes back down, right? And then it's the party as far as I like of the next big scenes. Mind you, I'm like cutting out like the intercuts with Hector Hammond. Um, I don't think they add anything. You know what I mean? It's not like they're parallel characters. It's not like they're equals. It's not like it's the Joker to his Batman and they're both being birthed at the same time. They were making those parallels with Hector Hammond.
00:51:12
Speaker
And like one is gaining good powers and one is becoming evil when he's getting the ring. And it's like, no, no, just focus on how getting the ring and then focus on Hector. It felt like they were trying to do something similar to, you know, going back to Ramey's Spider-Man movies like likely they did in the first Spider-Man movie with like Peter and Norman getting their powers. And but it.
00:51:33
Speaker
The thing that they did in, in, in Ramey's film is they did that really quickly. It was just like one or two seeds and that was it. This draws that out way too long. Yeah. And then, you know, then he's in the bed struggling and then he's, I love the body horror element. Don't get me wrong. I love that. Hector Hammond should have that. Like it's, it's terrifying. Like I don't want my head to grow to enormous sizes where then I am unable to walk. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
but I just don't like that there were those parallel shots. I feel like there should have been, once again, more to it because I don't even think Hector and Hal were introduced at that point yet. No, no, the first time they meet is at the party and by that point, Hector's, I think he's already been infected because he got infected when Hal does the oath the first time. Yep. And so,
00:52:27
Speaker
If they're not connected, and the audience has not connected them, like why edit it that way? And it just seems a lot of this movie seems like studio overstep. Like, yeah, oh, you got to get the you got to get that intro in there with the sector 2014 and all that you got to get this in there and you've got to
00:52:47
Speaker
Yeah, and like even like the whole, although I will say one of the things I did like is when, is when Hal goes to Carol's Green Lantern, and he's like trying to put on a deep voice and everything. And she goes up, she's like, she's like, Hal? And he's like, he's like, how'd you know it was me? And she's like, I just like, I've seen you naked. Why do you think I wouldn't recognize you just because I can't see your cheekbones? Yeah, that's, that's, it's an awesome scene. Yeah. And I also love that he like immediately calls Tom. Mm hmm.
00:53:13
Speaker
And he's like, alien, found this thing. It just makes sense. There's like natural stuff that's happening that, I guess you, I mean, at this point you did have the I am Iron Man, right? So you had that moment. So it's kind of, we're slowly moving away from secret identities in these films and it's not as big a part of things.
00:53:37
Speaker
So to have all these playful moments is great, and I think it all works. Well, it's cool. It's funny, too, because you kind of see the origins of the Arrowverse in here in some ways, too, with the love interest and the guy in the chair type of thing that Berlanti would use to, at first, good effect and then to overdone effect in the Arrowverse. And you kind of see the roots of that here with Tom and Carol both being in on the secret pretty much from the jump.
00:54:11
Speaker
Berlanti, I think, you know, did a good job. I just think that you, I really think there's so much studio involvement, I think. You know, Warner Brothers touts themselves as like, our directors get the final cuts for their movies. But it doesn't seem that way with a lot of DC. Yeah. You know, it seems that way with the Nolan movies. You can tell like those Nolan movies, like those feel like a Christopher Nolan film. Joker felt like a Todd, you know what I mean?
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:54:42
Speaker
This feels like a Warner Brothers overstep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think the fact that they were trying to have their Iron Man to set up a shared universe here. And you could see that so much with Amanda Waller and Argus. The only reason they're in for this is because they wanted their version of S.H.I.E.L.D. to link this to the rest of what would have been a DCU.
00:55:10
Speaker
And one of the things that I think they're forgetting is because they were looking at Iron Man, they're like, oh, you know what? What Marvel did is they took this lesser known character and they built this franchise on it. So we should take one of our lesser known characters and build our franchise on it. I'm like, well, yeah, that worked. But that worked because Marvel didn't have the rights to their top tier characters. And also, you know, The Avengers is a
00:55:34
Speaker
Like, as far as within the Avengers, like Iron Man is one of the top tier characters within the Avengers. Like, Green Lantern, he's, like Iron Man's part of the, the, the trinity in the Avengers. Green Lantern is not part of that core of the, of the Justice League in the same way. Like, so you have Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. I can understand not wanting to do Batman and Superman again so soon after the Nolan films and, um,
00:56:00
Speaker
And, uh, and, uh, Superman returns. But then, you know, Wonder Woman would have been a great place to start off with as the first tentpole in your, in your, in your new universe. Yeah. And I remember joking as Guardians was coming out that like, Oh, Marvel's going to have a tree and a talking raccoon beat out Wonder Woman. Yeah.
00:56:21
Speaker
Like how is that okay? That was I remember there was a there was a meme going around at the time where it had the scene of like Jonathan and Clark from Man of Steel and it said like DC like the world isn't ready for a Wonder Woman movie and then it contrasted with Rocket and Groot in the bottom part of like Marvel like here's a talking raccoon with a gun and his tree friend.
00:56:47
Speaker
I think I saw that, but that's awesome. It was so disappointing to be a DC fan for so long, I feel like, with Green Lantern.
00:57:00
Speaker
Then what they did with Man of Steel, that was really jarring. I don't know something about it in watching Superman snap the neck. I remember looking around at everybody I was with and I was like, did this happen? Are we okay with this? I understand it and philosophically we've talked it over so many times and I've talked it over with Anthony so many times that I'm kind of on board with it for what this is.
00:57:30
Speaker
to launch what Superman is and do that, I think was where the fault was. Well, I think all of this is that I think what DC keeps forgetting that worked with Marvel is that it was it was a shot in the dark. It was like they they didn't intend for that. The whole the whole Sam Jackson cameo at the end. That was just supposed to be like a fun little thing to toss in. Like that wasn't they didn't have any intention of doing the Avengers at that point. They're just kind of like, this is a Hail Mary. So we get out of bankruptcy.
00:57:59
Speaker
Yeah. And it worked. And then they're like, okay, well, then I guess we're doing this now. Yeah, I'm very excited for what James Gunn has upcoming. I'm all on board with
00:58:14
Speaker
his idea of what they're doing. And I feel like they're casting more like, you know, we're they have already what just cast the engineer from the authority. So like, I think in this Superman movie, you're gonna have like a moment where you see literally every DC character all at once.
00:58:32
Speaker
Well, yeah, because they mentioned like they cast like Guy Gardner and a bunch of other people in it, too. So it feels like it like they're doing something completely different from what I initially thought they were going to do. So it's definitely interesting to see. I feel like they're building up to something about like the Superman versus the elite type of thing with but with you actually having the authority instead of the authority stand ins. That'd be awesome.
00:58:57
Speaker
But also I want to talk a little bit about parallax in this because I feel like that is one of the biggest missteps here is
Parallax as a Villain: A Misstep?
00:59:05
Speaker
using parallax in this movie it it feels I mean I understand you know you want him in the background maybe because this is how Sinestro gets his fear ring this is how Hector gets his powers I'm I'm okay with all that but you don't then have parallax be the big threat of this movie you have parallax be like the the threat in like the third movie in a trilogy yeah
00:59:29
Speaker
I agree with you there. When I was a kid, when I wrote it, I had used this D-list Green Lantern villain. I think it was Legion, and it's basically these tiny robots that form one giant robot. And out of nowhere, following Avon Sur, as soon as he gets the ring, Legion came in and swept Hal away. You have this threat that's terrifying. He can't handle that. It's completely alien.
00:59:59
Speaker
Yeah, Parallax, that is world ending. That is like, you know, that is a Thanos level threat. It is existentially a threat to Howl's, like who he is, you know, because he gets possessed by this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And he throws it into the sun at the end of the first movie. Like one of his biggest threats.
01:00:25
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that was Jeff Johns putting his hand in and saying, we're not having Hal go crazy in this world. Yeah. But which now that I think about it, I think that would have actually been pretty interesting if you build up to this threat and then have Hal go crazy in the third movie and then you completely flip audience expectations and you have to bring in a new Green Lantern then.
01:00:53
Speaker
I mean, that's what I wanted to do with my versions. But watching that scene, once again, with his family and that kid, I was sitting there and I guess, I don't know, a sociopath, I was like, oh my God, imagine how many people you could hurt if you just got rid of them. You set up this scene and you've revolved so much of him saving them around this that once you take them away, you can understand how he would break.
01:01:23
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. And that would also drive home that idea of the whole overcoming fear aspect, right? If he succumbs to that fear like that and realizes that
01:01:36
Speaker
he can't he can't do this by by himself like that that would have really helped to drive those messages from and instead it does feel like you know the like you said the whole idea of overcoming fear is really kind of suppressed or is just given lip service and it's not really for all we talk about for all us writers here about and I my son obviously agrees with me
01:02:00
Speaker
for all we hear about you know this idea of as writers were always told you know show don't tell like this movie does a lot of telling and not a lot of showing yeah the it's just parallax really seems shoved in i don't know i think i know they they did reshoots because one of brother's movies tend to do tons of reshoots all the time because they have so many executives involved for some reason and they just don't let the
01:02:28
Speaker
creative teams breathe, which I think I hope is happening with these James Gunn movies because he seems to even be in charge of like when things are released. Yeah, excuse me. I mean, like I I've got a lot of faith in Gunn because he seems to have and I think he's shown this really well with with the Guardians movies is that he seems to be able to resist kind of like Marvel's worst impulses and and
01:02:55
Speaker
Whereas he'll do stuff and I'm always blown away in how well the CGI is executed in the Guardians movies compared to some of the other ones. And the reason is because he doesn't go in with the attitude of we'll fix it in post with CGI. He sets up CGI deliberately in his shots. This is how we're going to use it. He plans it very well in advance. And I feel like he does the same thing with most of these movies too. And he's very good at
01:03:25
Speaker
you know, focusing on what's really important and not getting distracted by the larger universe stuff. So I think he's got a pretty good handle on it at DC, you know, although hoping, you know, hoping that Zazlov doesn't, you know, step in and screw things up like he is with everything else.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, and and I think that worries me about Warner Brothers as a company when it comes to this stuff because they don't even know that they have this like all of the properties that Warner Brothers has could like bury Marvel films handled correctly. Yes, you know, and even I feel like I know the Batman did well, but I don't think it did as well as Batman 89 or like the Nolan movies. You know, I love that movie. But once again, like Warner Brothers, like they
01:04:13
Speaker
They have too much too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to the higher level. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think to one of the problems is that and probably one of the reasons why the Batman maybe didn't do as well as some of those other films is because I think maybe a lot of audiences they went in and they're thinking like, wait, you got you got you're bringing in another Batman now. This is like what the third one now. So I think I feel like there's kind of a sense among
01:04:39
Speaker
among most of the audience that, all right, this doesn't seem, you know, who knows how long this is gonna stick around. So maybe we should just sit this one out until we see if it develops any legs under it. Yeah. So once again, love all the OA stuff. Parallax is way too much at the end there. How did you know where Hector was?
01:05:05
Speaker
That was what I wrote down in my notes, too. That is just completely out of nowhere. Just all of a sudden, you know, Hal bursts in with the... I'm like, wait, did I? And I remember, because we had planned to record this, what was last month, originally. And so I'd watched it then, too. And I dozed off watching it. So I'm like, wait, I think I missed a scene. And I'm like, I'll check it up later on Wikipedia. And I checked the plots on here on Wikipedia. I'm like,
01:05:28
Speaker
doesn't seem like I missed a scene. And then I was watching it last night. I'm like, nope, I'm wide awake. I did not miss anything. There is no reason why Hal should know about any of this happening. Yeah, he like crashes into an Amanda Waller like secret location. Yeah, that should be like, like Batman levels of off the map. Like you should not know wherever this place is.
01:05:53
Speaker
It's a it's a plot hole that just like in Dark Knight Rises how Bruce suddenly goes from the middle of nowhere in this prison with no money and all of a sudden he ends up back in you know Gotham which has been cut off from the rest of the country But see what the Green Lantern doesn't have that Batman does have is that like it's Batman. Yeah, that's true. Yeah
01:06:18
Speaker
Which, you know, I don't give too much credence to that. But, you know, that's like audiences are willing to go with that. Yeah, exactly. You can go with it's Batman for Batman, but you can't go with like, oh, it's Green Lantern. Yeah. What? The ring whispered to him. What? There's nothing.
01:06:36
Speaker
you wouldn't know oh there's a and you could have even said in that scene with like carol oh there's a weird energy disturbance that seems like you know yellow energy just and then go but no they didn't even do that he just like flies in and he's like hector um yeah it's just and also just the cgi the decision to make the suit all cgi was i think
01:07:02
Speaker
at the time I thought oh that's cool that sounds interesting but seeing what came out of it just it's very clear the CGI was not at that level yet and and I think and again I think they were looking at Iron Man is too much of an example where they looked at Iron Man where yeah a lot of those scenes with the armor are CGI but they mixed it with
01:07:22
Speaker
actual practical suit effects too. They didn't do all CGI all the time. And that was a big weakness because you watch this movie and it just, there are times when some of these scenes, it looks like a PS2 cut scene.
01:07:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I was looking after watching it while I was sitting here, I've been playing Mario RPG too, so I was kind of like playing the new Mario RPG and then like Googling fan edits of the suit. And I don't think anything works, because I don't think the original suit would work, right? I don't think the classic with the white gloves, I don't think that'll work. I don't think that any of the fan edits I've seen
01:08:03
Speaker
have worked. I definitely don't think the movie scene suit works. I saw the John Stewart for Justice League, Zack Snyder's Justice League, and I was like, okay, that kind of works.
01:08:18
Speaker
But it's a hard thing to translate. Yeah, I think the I think the best the thing that I think would work probably is is that that Jon Stewart suit from the Justice League TV show, that's the animated series. I think that's the one where it's mostly black and you've got some of the green accents. I think that's really the only way to really make it work. And you can't make the green too bright, I think, too, because otherwise that would. It looks very distracting, like the the brightness of that green. It looked it. It's great. It's really great.
01:08:48
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, even Taika is like, Oh, green. Yeah, exactly. Speaking for all of us there. But honestly, too, I don't think you need a mask. Like, I think that mask is not really helping things at all. No, and I don't think the secret identity is necessary if you're a police of space cop. No, yeah, I mean, I think if you're doing the secret identity thing, it's, you could obviously
01:09:15
Speaker
deal with it with the fact that he's always surrounded by bright green aura anyway, so his face is kind of obscured by that. So I don't think you really need much more than that to really get across the secret identity thing.
01:09:27
Speaker
absolutely we haven't talked about any of his like power usages i mean he does all of the classic how stuff there's like i don't think anything was like left out of like what how is able to think of down to the fact that he doesn't even know how to call his ring to him because it's how jordan and he's that enough but like uh yeah i thought the
01:09:51
Speaker
I thought at the party, like using the car and the racetrack, I thought that was a pretty, maybe far more creative than Hal does in the comics, but I thought that was a pretty cool use of it.
01:10:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I think they do a good job with like showcasing the powers. I think that all like plays well. And I think that the scenes on OA like I'm in on those, even though like the CGI isn't fantastic, I'm still like into those scenes. And I mean, the swords that him and him and Sinestro generate, I thought those look pretty cool. Like it was they were like real swords. They had kind of like this like ethereal effect. I thought they worked pretty well. Yeah.
01:10:27
Speaker
You know, and the, you know, you get the boxing gloves. Yeah, I thought the constructs were pretty well done. You know, janky siege. I mean, you expect them. They're going to look unrealistic anyway, no matter how good the CGI is just by nature of what they are. So I think they I think they worked pretty well for the most part. The constructs I got no complaint with. It's just the suit in general being all CGI like that just doesn't work. And like the weird muscle texture on it, too, is also kind of an odd choice.
01:10:58
Speaker
I felt like I think trying to it felt like almost similar to like the logic behind the the nipples on the bat suits and the Schumacher films like it doesn't have to be this anatomically correct. Yeah, I didn't the the feet made me uncomfortable. Have you got like a good look at like how they're like, they're like molded around? Yeah, that was weird. That was weird. And also like the way that the
01:11:26
Speaker
it they don't it doesn't feel like you know like Carol says like why is your skin green I'm just like so like so wait he's basically naked that is what you're telling me here this feels weird now yeah pretty much the yeah it's just
01:11:42
Speaker
I didn't also like that you would see, it looked like energy was coming from the suit through the ring. It didn't look like it was coming from the ring, which I know is such a two over to the top nerd thing of me to complain about, but why does it look like it's coming from the little power battery in the center of the suit through his arm, then to the ring?
01:12:08
Speaker
No, you're right. You're absolutely right. I didn't really think about that too much. But yeah, that's very true. And again, I feel like this is another case of the Iron Man influence coming in because, you know, you've got this big glowy thing in the center of the chest. The power is going to come from there. Oh, right. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. But it is also important to note, you know, as much as a disappointment as this film was,
Failed Green Lantern Projects of the Past
01:12:33
Speaker
I mean, back at the time, it could have been a lot worse because some of the other things that Warner Brothers was tossing around in the development stages, like, you know about the Jack Black version that they were working on for a while, right? I do remember the rumblings of that. Yeah, so there's, for anyone who doesn't know, there was talk about, you know, I can't remember what the screenwriter was, but there was one screenwriter who was talking about how they were hired to write Green Lantern for Warner Brothers. And Warner Brothers concept behind it was that it would have been a comedy film starring
01:13:03
Speaker
either Jack Black himself or like a Jack Black type actor. And it would have been like the whole idea is that the ring makes a mistake and finds the wrong person. And instead of finding like this capable hero, it ends up finding this like total slacker. And like the climax of the movie would have been like the Jack Black character basically redoing ending from Superman 78, where he creates like a Green Lantern version of Superman to fly back in time and solve the problem. Oh my God.
01:13:33
Speaker
Didn't hear about that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was also like they're even like back in the 80s, too They were rumblings about doing it still as a comedy but with like Eddie Murphy involved. Oh My god. Yeah, that's crazy. I Man, it just shows how Warner Brothers just doesn't understand the property
01:13:50
Speaker
No, I mean, this isn't a Warner Brothers thing, but it does remind me of when James O'Barr was talking about his initial meetings with producers for The Crow. And he was sitting in this room with a bunch of Hollywood executives. And one of them said, like, I got it. We can do this as a musical. We can get Michael Jackson to play the lead role. And it'll be great. And then O'Barr just starts bursting out in the laughter because he thought he was making a joke. And then he realizes he's the only one laughing. And everybody's looking at him like he's crazy.
01:14:21
Speaker
I was at a Comic Con party out in San Diego Comic Con, and I was hanging out with a couple people from Warner, and one of them said, tomorrow we're announcing Sandman. And this was 10 years ago, so this is before the show. So this is one of the many dead Sandman projects. And he goes, we figured it out. Sandman's gonna be our next Harry Potter.
01:14:51
Speaker
And I was like, and I'm like, I don't know because I don't want to be mean, right? I don't like it's not my when I'm hanging out with people. It's not my initial reaction to be like, well, that's more like to just do that. I was just like, oh, OK. And I remember talking to my friend afterwards and just like spiraling and being like, what are they thinking? Oh, my God.
01:15:12
Speaker
Although, you know, being me can sometimes benefit. That's how Kevin Smith got the Superman Lives screenwriting job. That is fair. They asked him how, what do you think of the script? He's like, it's shit. He's like, you know, did, you know, wrote this. Did you pay for this? Can you get your money back? Did somebody's cousin write this? And it's like each day he comes, he brings, bring him back in. It's like, tell him what you told me until finally he gets up to Lorenzo. And then he gives, he gives, and then Lorenzo's the first one says, well, what else would you do differently?
01:15:40
Speaker
Yeah, man, at least I remember it very clearly. So if like, at the end of life, we can go back to like prior save points, it's definitely a save point. I could go and change that reality. But man, I remember I was just like, Oh, God, is this how it all works? Now, kind of the last thing to talk about is kind of the future. So we we got teased Green Lantern a bunch through the Arrowverse right with
01:16:07
Speaker
you know, the whole idea that John Diggle might be John Stewart, and then, you know, we kind of got that confirmed, we met his father, and then he finds what looks like the Green Lantern Ring at the conclusion of Arrow, but then it just turns out it's not, I guess, I can't really remember how that shook out, it was weird, but, and then there was supposed to be like the HBO Max series that ended up getting canceled, and now there's the, the DC Universe, they said they're gonna be doing a,
01:16:37
Speaker
a new TV show called Lanterns. And it's going to be starring Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart. But then we're also going to have Nathan Fillion as Guy Gardner in Superman Legacy. So what's kind of your take on all that kind of stuff that's been floating around there?
01:16:56
Speaker
I love the direction that it's going in. I love that you're including Jon Stewart with Hal. I remember when the movie was coming out, there was this big backlash, and they were like, Green Lantern's not white. And as someone who read the comics, I was like, what are you talking about? Well, I remember that was- Of course, Hal was like- Yeah, yeah. I remember that was Neil Adams' big thing too, because he said at the time, he was saying, why would you do Green Lantern with Hal Jordan when an entire generation knows him as Jon Stewart? Yeah.
01:17:25
Speaker
And to me, that completely changed my perspective once I saw people only knew Jon Stewart. No one knew Hal, no one knew Kyle. Because of the cartoon, that is the Green Lantern you know. And so it's brilliant to have them both there. You now have two of these characters.
01:17:49
Speaker
Am I holding out hope for Kyle? Always. I just think that that is where he is the Luke Skywalker of the Green Lantern story and Hal will always be the Darth Vader to me.
Character Development and Fear Themes
01:18:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think that was what works so well about Kyle because if the whole theme is overcoming fear, then having a character who's fearless is kind
01:18:12
Speaker
kind of working against you right there from the start. But having a character who is always second guessing himself, who's very unsure of himself, I think is a perfect character to have in that role. Yeah.
01:18:28
Speaker
And I love Jon Stewart as well, just how his mind works with the ring and how like everything is so detailed and he brings his like, you know, architect and he brings his military and like that with Hal then who is like, you have Jon Stewart basically I'm assuming is going to be like the like straight guy and then Hal's gonna be like the one that he's kind of off the handle, I would assume with that partnership.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting to see.
Nathan Fillion and Green Lantern Casting Insights
01:18:58
Speaker
What about what do you think about Fillion as a guy gardener then? I mean, that's perfect. And I'm very excited for James Gunn to put him in an orange bull cut. Has he said that he'll give him the bull cut? He's made a joke about it, but I don't know if that's going to be a serious thing. I mean, yeah, because, you know, because Fillion did a lot of voice work for for Hal and the animated movies, and I thought he did a great job as Hal and those. And I'm just like, yeah, you know, if someone's going to get me interested in Hal Jordan,
01:19:25
Speaker
outside of Ryan Reynolds, it would probably be Nathan Fillion, but having him as guy I think is even better because he can definitely bring that cockiness to that role. Absolutely.
New Origin Story in 'Beware My Power'
01:19:35
Speaker
Did you see the newer origin for Jon Stewart with Beware My Power? No, not yet.
01:19:41
Speaker
It's really good. I think they do a really good job of like, kind of giving him a very, like, almost a similar kind of background to how but like, instead of it being from Abin Sur, it's kind of coming from how and I think it was just a really like, well done way to kind of flesh out Jon Stewart's backstory a little bit, you know, stronger.
01:20:02
Speaker
Yeah, I've got that. So I am curious to check in and check out that because I've also see that Green Arrow is a big player in that too. And I love me some Green Arrow. So I'm looking forward to seeing that.
Mixed Feelings and Highlights
01:20:14
Speaker
But this was a fun conversation, Ralph. Thank you for coming on. I really enjoyed talking about this movie and finding some good things to say and also some
01:20:22
Speaker
some good things to say about it. I really wish I could have defended it a lot more, but I came away not feeling great about it, not feeling bad about it, just kind of feeling bored about it. After all of this time, having such strong feelings towards it to now have
01:20:42
Speaker
No feelings towards it is very, it's a strange feeling. I do have one more thing on my notes that I want to bring up. Oh sure, absolutely. And it's when Kilowog goes, can I train him or what? And I was just like, for all of the five minutes, Kilowog, you did a great job.
01:21:01
Speaker
Yeah, Michael Clark Duncan, RIP, and he was a he was a great one. Also a great kingpin, too, like up until we got Vincent D'Onofrio. He was he was like, I thought like if they bring anyone back, they should bring back him as kingpin. Absolutely. Yeah, this was this was fun.
Ralph Puma's Projects and Promotions
01:21:17
Speaker
If you have anything you'd like to promote, please go ahead and tell people where they can find you.
01:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, I'm on Instagram as at Ralph Puma. All of my links are there. You can find my music, you can find solace, you can find my weird explaining the occult via, you know, how conservatives have infiltrated politics in weird ways.
01:21:41
Speaker
mini doc called Satan Mania. All of the strange things I work on and all of the podcasts I'm on with Anthony as well. You can find all on that link tree that's on the Ralph Puma Instagram. Go check out my music. Go check out my show. That's all I got.
Podcast and Comic Promotions
01:22:01
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, well, we'll have links to that stuff in the show notes.
01:22:04
Speaker
As for us, we are SuperheroCinephiles.com is the website. We are SuperCinemapod on BlueSky and Instagram. We're also on threads. I think it's also SuperCinemapod on threads as well. Technically, we have a Twitter page, but now that Elon Musk has completely come out and gone full Nazi, I'm not going to be over there really at all anymore, so you better find me on BlueSky or threads and contact me through the webpage if you want.
01:22:33
Speaker
Also, don't forget, we've got the comic book, Paragons of Earth, that I've done with Thomas DJ and Eric Johns. By the time this episode comes out, hopefully the funding will be completed, but you'll still be able to pick it up. So you can check that out at crowdfunder.com slash ParagonsComic. That's crowdfundernoe.com slash ParagonsComic. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
01:22:57
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Superhero Cinephiles is produced by me, Percival Constantine, with the support of Zencaster. The show is created by myself and the late, great Derek Ferguson, our host, Emeritus. Visit us on the web at SuperheroCinephiles.com to listen to past episodes or find out how you can be a guest yourself. Support the show by visiting our advertiser links or click the Buy Me a Coffee link on the website to make a one-time donation. You can also support us by visiting Crowdfunder.com slash ParagonsComic. That's Crowdfunder with no E,
01:23:27
Speaker
and help support my superhero comic book, Paragons of Earth. We are SuperCinemapod on both Instagram and BlueSky, so please be sure to follow us. We'd also appreciate if you could rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and share us with your friends.
01:24:00
Speaker
Thank you for listening. And as always, good night. Good evening. God bless.