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Eternals
176 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, we visit the rare Marvel property that Perry has no real familiarity with. Patrick Lagua of the Krakoan Exports and E For Evolution podcasts returns for a discussion of Eternals, while also providing some related information on the comics. We talk about the few things in the movie that work really well...and then everything else.
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Transcript
Arrival of the Eternals
00:00:14
Speaker
We're Eternals from a planet called Olympia. We came here 7,000 years ago on the Domo, our starship, to protect humans from the deviants. We thought we'd killed them all five centuries ago, but now they're back. Look, if you don't want to move in with me, you could just say... Dame, this is serious. Oh, I know. I'm just still getting over the fact you're not a wizard.
00:00:40
Speaker
I was hoping you could change me into a giraffe. I always wanted to be a giraffe when I was a kid. It's too bad I can't change sentient beings. It made a very cute giraffe. Why didn't you guys help fight Thanos? Or any war. All the other terrible things throughout history. We were instructed not to interfere in any human conflicts unless deviants are involved. Why?
00:01:03
Speaker
If we'd protected humanity from everything for 7,000 years, you'd never have had the chance to develop in the way you were meant to. But if the deviants were eradicated a long time ago, why are you still here? We've been waiting to be told we can go home. So... Icarus. The boy who flew too close to the sun. Sprite made that story up when we lived in Athens.
00:01:33
Speaker
In the fifth century BC? How long were you two together? 5,000 years. I guess you can go that long term. What happened? He left. I always thought he'd come back, but he never did. So I moved on. I'm glad you did. I'm sorry. I have to go.
Introduction and Hosts
00:02:04
Speaker
Welcome to Superhero Cinephile's podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and I'm joined together by one of my co-hosts on another podcast. He co-hosts E for Evolution, examining Grant Morrison's X-Men with me, and he's also a former guest on this show, and that's Patrick Lagua. Pat, how are you doing today? Good, how are you? Hi, everybody. Doing pretty good. Good to have you back on the show. Thank you. So before we jump into the movie, why don't you remind people a little bit more about yourself?
00:02:34
Speaker
I lifelong comic book fan. I like Percy Perry said I'm a co-host on ease for evolution. I guess I'm really kind of a X-Men well not kind of like sort of that's my go to comic book obsession. But I've dipped my toes quite a bit in eternals. I guess since the movie came out, I think I reread that
00:03:01
Speaker
Neil Gaiman run fairly recently and then I'm a big Kieran Gillan fan as well and really enjoying his current take on those characters. If y'all haven't read that
Eternals in Comics
00:03:14
Speaker
current run that he's on, you should check it out.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, before we jump into Eternals, you also host another podcast. You wanted to tell me about that? Oh, yes. Yeah, so I'm actually on another expert-related podcast that's kind of a theme called GoCoAne Exports. So it's me and three other co-hosts who are currently going through and reviewing, commenting on the current Hickman era. I guess not Hickman era anymore, but
00:03:47
Speaker
The status quo still around. We have just wrapped up recording, we go, we go through like the dawn of x trades I don't know how familiar y'all are with how those are collected but marvelous sort of releasing.
00:04:02
Speaker
This current era and these don of x traits which collects issues from different series sort of the more chronological order by how the events take place. So we're, we just recorded volume 15, then we're doing volume 16 this week.
00:04:20
Speaker
And after that, we're going to tackle Ten of Swords, which will be a two part episode because it's it's a 22 part comic story. So yeah, it's pretty big. Me as a trade reader, those Dawn of X trades, they threw me off when I first started dipping in the Hickman stuff because I picked up the
00:04:39
Speaker
the House of X powers of 10 trade and then I started picking up the individual trades like X-Men and Marauders. And then after that I noticed the dawn of these big collections like, man, maybe I should have gotten those instead and just waited but
00:04:55
Speaker
But we had the guys from the Ex-Wife podcast on here, they pointed out that it actually is kind of better to do the individual books because then you can kind of pick and choose which ones you want to do, which has been good because there's some of the Hickman era stuff that didn't quite appeal to me. Like I tried the first two new mutants trades and it didn't really grab me all that much. So I kind of skipped out on those. And so it's late. Let me be a little bit more selective in what I want to read.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's really like your flavor of reading. I don't think either one is better than the other, though I do think the advantage of the Dawn of X trades is kind of gives you this all encompassing view. And it really shows how well edited and how interlinked all of the stories are. Yeah, it's definitely a cool format. And I'm glad that Marvel is giving people the choice of which way they want to read. So that's definitely really, I like that idea.
00:05:55
Speaker
more, they do that with more stuff, not only Marvel, but DC as well, because trying to piece together things with trades can be kind of a nightmare.
Marvel 'Gambles' and Adaptation
00:06:05
Speaker
But so, like we said, we're going to be talking about Eternals today. And you mentioned a little bit about the Eternals comics. So like me personally, I've never been a fan of the Eternals. I've never really dipped my toe into into their
00:06:19
Speaker
into their comics. I started reading the game and trade last night actually, because I picked it up years ago, probably on one of the different sales. Yeah, yeah, just like those, those Comixology sales, which as a side note, I really hate what Amazon's done to Comixology now, but that's a, that's a debate for another time. Episode, perhaps.
00:06:41
Speaker
Oh God, I could go on and on. I already wrote an article on Medium about it. But I did pick up this Game and Trade and I only just started reading it last night after I rewatched the movie. And it's okay. I think I got like three issues left in the trade.
00:07:00
Speaker
But the Eternals as the characters, the concepts, I like Cersei and the Avengers. And my only other real experience in them has been when they appeared in other books. And when they usually appear, it's just kind of, they've never really grabbed my interests at all. But so as someone who's a little bit more familiar with the Eternals comics, what kind of drew you to them?
00:07:26
Speaker
Um, I guess I don't know if I'm like, more familiar than you are, because I, I can sort of name those two, those, those are the two like big, not so, but those are the two main comics exposure I've had to them is that Game and Wrong and the current Gill and Wrong. So I don't know if like,
00:07:44
Speaker
So you're slightly more experienced than me. Slightly more, but not too much. But I don't know if that's a function of us being readers or I don't know if there's ever been. No, wasn't there Paul Jenkins run at some point or am I making that up?
00:07:59
Speaker
Um, Paul Jenkins, I think, oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. So I don't know. I do think there was enough. There's the obvious original. There was original Kirby stuff. And then I think there was another mini series or something between the game and the Gillan stuff.
00:08:17
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So I don't know if like our level of exposure is related more to like how interesting they are to us or whether there just isn't that much like actual eternal stuff. Yeah. And I'm not sure what the case is as far as that's concerned. So you've never read any of the Kirby stuff that.
00:08:49
Speaker
Cause Kirby's, you know, he's a great, he was a great idea, man. Obviously brilliant artists. And he had this, a lot of these kind of high concept stuff, but he wasn't so good as a writer when he got down to the actual character type stuff. That's the kind of stuff where he wasn't so good at. So his eternal stuff, a lot of people that I've talked to who have read it have just been kind of like, it looks nice, but that's really about all there is to it.
00:08:56
Speaker
I have not.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like the Gaiman and the Gillen run is more like, the Gaiman run is very, when I was reading it, and I don't know if you had the same reaction, I was very like, this is a Gaiman book first and an Eternals book second. Like there's so many like Gaiman-esque tropes.
00:09:34
Speaker
happening in there, which is not necessarily a bad thing because I think those are characters and the story fits well with the kind of thing that Gaiman does. The Gillin run, there's also a lot of, there's a lot of Gillinisms in there, but I feel like he does a better, he's doing a better job of like writing the characters. It's an Eternals book first and a Gillin book second. Okay, so he's made you more into, he's made you more into, so you're following it more
00:10:03
Speaker
Um, because of Dylan specifically, or has he started to make you a fan of those characters as well? Um, both. Okay. I, yeah, both. Like I, I'm interested in them in a way during this run in a way that I had not been in the past. Um, and there, there's a massive spoiler at the end of the first arc that I won't reveal that sort of.
00:10:27
Speaker
paints them in a very different light. Okay. We've never known before. Okay. So let's go ahead and talk about this movie. Now, this is one of those films that was kind of a swing for the fences for Marvel, because kind of like Guardians of the Galaxy, because that was also a property that, you know, wasn't really well known. You can also put Chang Chi in that category too, because, you know, character that a lot of people outside of the comics audiences didn't
Critique of the Eternals Movie
00:10:53
Speaker
know about.
00:10:53
Speaker
And even comics audiences I would venture, probably not super familiar. Exactly, yeah. I mean Guardians may be a little bit more, but still, but Shang-Chi and the Eternals, unless you're like real hardcore Marvel fan, you'd be forgiven for not really hearing about these characters before. You know, like I said, I've read tons of Marvel stuff.
00:11:15
Speaker
and The Eternals book is the first time I've really kind of read The Eternals on their own, not as part of some them appearing somewhere else. So it was kind of, it was a gamble for them to say that we're going to do a movie about The Eternals that, you know, this comic book that nobody's ever heard of and introduced this new team that's been in the background the whole time. So what were some of your opinions after the first time you saw this movie?
00:11:44
Speaker
I think Swing for Defenses is an app description, but I think unfortunately they failed because I feel like this movie has this conflicting mission statement where on the one hand, like they're trying to introduce all of these cool, interesting concepts that it's like, as far as the movies are concerned, like we've never seen before, but at the same time, they're also trying to package it as a very conventional superhero movie and like sort of the Avengers, like,
00:12:13
Speaker
bold, right? Like, like you see that when you first introduced them, you know, having these big fighting action scenes, there's like these dramatic poses, they're quipping, and they're like, they're basically the Avengers, but like an ancient Bible on or what have you, which I think it was the wrong tack to take with these characters.
00:12:33
Speaker
Like, if anything, I wanted them to go even weirder and more unconventional because then I think I messaged you like a couple of those panels from the game and run where like even they say, right, like we're not superheroes. But the movie, I think, was very much concerned with packaging them as such. And for me, that did not work. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that the movie works best when it kind of taps into those when it takes them out of that realm, like
00:13:03
Speaker
And I think this movie would have been better served if they had actually gone with the game and approach where he had that kind of like amnesiac and start off with that and trying to make more of a mystery and try to piece them together. I think that would have worked. Sorry, one second. No worries.
00:13:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think it would have worked a lot better if they had gone with that approach because it feels like, because then you raise all these questions, which they actually, to their credit, they actually do address in the movie about like, well, how come you guys weren't around when, you know, Thanos was blinking half the population out of existence? And it's a really good point. And even though they say, well, well, you know, they told us not to get involved unless deviants aren't involved. I mean,
00:13:56
Speaker
at that point after all this time that you you know spent living in the world you'd think you'd you know kind of say like well you know maybe we should get involved this time so that excuse doesn't work so well but if they were and if you had gone with the game and story it would have made a whole lot more sense and i what really was and disconnecting from like as far as translating them from the comics like this sense of like
00:14:22
Speaker
They have such a, I'm not familiar, intimate relationship with humans. When I think of the Eternals, they're very much like they're removed. They're removed from us because they're not humans and they know that. They're these demigod figures that
00:14:44
Speaker
They wouldn't like, I know they did the whole Cersei Black Knight thing because it's a comics thing and they're sort of tapping into that whole history with the Avengers, but like they, like the relationship that they had with humans is not what I was expecting it would be.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, I was kind of surprised by that as well. Like them being revered as gods and all that, that made total sense, but it was weird to see like, you know, Cersei going out among them and like helping them plant crops and all that and then like dancing with them and, you know, Sprite telling them stories with her powers. All of that seemed really kind of, it was also, even though I don't know much about the Eternals, it was kind of divorced from what I think they're,
00:15:27
Speaker
the original idea behind it was, because Kirby was very much influenced by stuff like Cherry to the Gods and the whole kind of idea about, you know, the gods and goddesses of ancient cultures being actual aliens. And he was very much taking that inspiration from that when he did this, when he created this in the first place. And I think the movie would have been better served if it had kind of stuck with that, because I get what they're trying to do. They're trying to establish that
00:15:55
Speaker
They've got this affinity for humans and that's why they're they decide to rebel against Ereshim. And that makes sense, but I think you could have accomplished that same thing by having them by going with the game and stuff again and having them be amnesiac and living among the humans and not knowing they're the Eternals until something awakens them.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think that approach would have made more sense to me as far as maybe providing narrative for like, you know, why should you care for these peons, these moments as much as you do, right? Because also, like, if you're a self over immortal, and I was thinking about this, like, in face those case, for example, like, like, he's been around for a long time. And I would imagine, like, they would understand the cost of like, having a relationship.
00:16:47
Speaker
with a human who's gonna die and like, it's a blink of an eye to you if you've been around for thousands of years and like, why would you do that again? Like willingly in a very mentally balanced way. And so like, I think the movie sort of hand wave, like the movie asks a lot of interesting questions that then sort of immediately hand waves away.
Inconsistencies in Eternals
00:17:12
Speaker
Right. And I think Fastos is a good example of that because there's that great scene when he's standing at the ruins of Hiroshima in 1945. And there's this whole thing about him being like done with humans and his technology being responsible. But then he's living in suburban Chicago with humans. And I get what they're trying to say is like, well, now I use my hands just to fix my son's bike. And I get what you're trying to say with that.
00:17:42
Speaker
there's a jump there that's not quite making the landing. Can we talk about Druig for a second? He was my favorite. He's like the POV character who's like, who tells, or at least as this particular audience member, he's the one who's like, he said all the things that I was thinking and I absolutely appreciate. And I just love the caustic character that's sort of like,
00:18:10
Speaker
makes the other characters uncomfortable by like, and you know this from our other podcast, by like telling things they need to hear, but maybe don't want to hear. So I really appreciated his character. One of the things about Druig that kept throwing me off ever since I saw the trailers of this movie is, and this is just my thing, but appearance wise, he reminds me so much of what's his name, who plays Flash in the Justice League movies.
00:18:40
Speaker
Ezra Miller? It's kind of, he's got kind of like something, like his hairstyle. I can see it. And it just, it kept throwing me off the entire time. Cause I'm looking at him. I'm like, I know this is not Ezra Miller, but it makes me think of Ezra Miller so much. I can see it. I can see there are some ones. That was really throwing me off when I was watching the movie. Both times I keep thinking of like, you're not Ezra Miller. Why did I?
00:19:06
Speaker
There's another speedster who's not as familiar. There is another speedster in there too. Now for my part, I actually, I thought Cersei was my favorite of the characters. I thought Gemma Chan did, I mean, anytime you have Gemma Chan in a movie, it's always good to see her. And I thought she did a great job of making that character really, really likable because if you know the character from some of her other appearances, like in, like from her time in the Avengers,
00:19:36
Speaker
she's kind of a hard character to like. And I thought they did a really good job with her. And, cause you know, if you had read the, the gathering story arc, that was kind of her big thing in the- She went insane, right? If I recall correctly. She went insane. It was the Matt Murray thing. And then Black Knight kind of got tricked into being her, her ganjosin and all that, all that kind of stuff. And there was this whole love triangle between her and Black Knight and Crystal who,
00:20:02
Speaker
was also oh that's right quicksilver at the time too so it was like this love square type of thing um and not the best story art that the Avengers have all have done before but it was interesting and it was kind of cool to see it um
00:20:21
Speaker
to see those characters appear in a different form here. And I found myself really thinking like, you know what? I wanna see her now end up in the Avengers. And I wanna see like more of Kit Harington's Black Knight in the Avengers as well, going forward. Well, and I think she's easy to like because she's the only character I think that had any substantial arc. Yeah, yeah. In this entire movie, like she's the only one who, like she started a movie as one thing, but she ends up in a different place. And I think she may be the only one
00:20:50
Speaker
From the cast that had any kind of substantial development. Yeah, it's hard to do when you have a cast of like what nine Right. Yeah, that's another thing is this movie. It kind of feels like it's
00:21:04
Speaker
It's more of the X-Men style of movies than the Avengers style of movies, if you know what I mean. Because in the X-Men movies, it was much more focused on, you know, two or three main characters. So it's like, you know, you get the focus on Xavier Wolverine and Magneto. Whereas here, pretty much all the focus is on Cersei, as opposed to the Avengers movies, which tend to be a little bit more well-rounded in terms of the characterization. Well, I mean, because they also get other movies to do that. That too, yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
Even so, like the characters who don't have their other movies in the Avengers films, like Black Widow or, I mean, I know Hulk had one movie before, but a lot of people didn't even realize that. Or, you know, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, all of them, they get quite a lot of development in those movies in comparison to the development that the Eternals get in this movie.
00:22:00
Speaker
Can we talk about Karim for a second? That's his name, right? Oh, yeah, the valet. Yes. What did you think of? I thought he was a he was a it's weird because I get the feeling they're trying to go for like this comic relief type character. And he does that in a in a few scenes. But after a certain point, just kind of feels like why is this guy still here?
00:22:26
Speaker
I get like, I thought they were trying to, okay, so here's this POV character, right? Like he's to stand in for the audience, but he annoyed me so much. He annoyed me so much. And it may be because the particular POV that he was bringing to the story may be different from my own point of view, but I'm just like, dude, there's all this crazy stuff happening. The world is gonna end. How are you this calm? How is this just?
00:22:56
Speaker
normal for you. He gets a few good lines. I will say that like I did like the scene in the beginning when Kingo introduces him and he's like, he thought I was a vampire at first and he tried to stake me.
00:23:08
Speaker
Oh, and did you just love have they all seem committed to like, telling everybody, you know, they are like, like, sir, like, yeah, whatever can go like, okay, I'll just tell you, whatever. That was kind of the weird thing, especially at the beginning, when the deviant first attacks and, um,
00:23:26
Speaker
And because they've been leading up the whole Cersei and Dane situation, you get the sense that she hasn't told him anything about herself. But then, you know, the demi attacks and she's like, it's a demon. He says, well, I thought you killed them all. And then later she says, you know, I'm an eternal. And it's like, so wait, did you tell him? What did you tell him? What didn't you tell him? It's a really weird middle ground.
00:23:51
Speaker
No but I do but I think know what happened is Sprite told him, but then I guess he thought like oh it's just bright telling stories and then the deviant shows up which I guess verifies like everything that's bright told him before, but everyone in this movie is super well adjusted like yeah like she just lays out this massive revelation like by the way.
00:24:11
Speaker
I'm thousands of years old and I can do these things. And I've had this ex who's also kind of like me, by the way. Anyway, how are you taking all this Dane? Oh, I'm good. I'm fine. Turn me into a giraffe. Ha ha ha. I actually did kind of like his reaction to all of this just because they live in a world where the Avengers had been a thing for what, like over 10 years now. And they just had this situation where
00:24:37
Speaker
you know, half the population was disappeared by magic rocks for five years and then just magically brought back. So I did kind of like that, you know, they're more, because that's one of the things that kind of annoys me when you have these situations in comics when they're like, oh, you know, how can, you know, how can aliens exist and all this? I'm like, motherfucker, you've got like, you know, Asgardians flying around down Fifth Avenue. There's been aliens. Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
So it always kind of irritates me when they have those kinds of surprises in those kinds of surprise reactions in the comics and even in other movies. So I did find it a little refreshing that they didn't go down that route in this movie.
00:25:19
Speaker
Um, I, so I guess maybe it's not so much like that narrative bit, but more like, for me, like the quippiness of it. Like there, like there wasn't a lot of distinction between how they talked in the past versus how they talk now. Yeah. That may just be being nitpicky, but like, I feel like
00:25:42
Speaker
Like in the past they would talk like contemporary people. There's no difference between like what their language is in the present versus their language thousands of years ago, which I suppose you could just explain away by like the Star Trek universal translator theory, I suppose. They don't really sound like that. It's just being translated for your contemporary ears.
00:26:07
Speaker
Right, but no, that is a good point too. And I did think that was, it didn't quite jump out to me as much when I was watching the movie, but it's a good point to make, I think. And I think one of the things about this movie is that it feels like it's half of a Marvel movie and half of a DC movie in its execution. And it feels like it doesn't really know which one it wants to be.
00:26:35
Speaker
Like when you say when it's got, it's dealing with a lot of this, like a lot of the visuals, a lot of the kind of heavier themes seem much more suited to what the stuff that DC is doing. Whereas then you contrast it with the kind of quippiness. And I feel like there was a lot more interference in this movie than there wasn't in some others.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yes, because I feel like it's trying to burst out and like do all of these weird unconventional things that they've never done before. But then I feel like Chloe Zang got all these notes about like, no, no, no, like we got to sell action figures. Like you really have to sell them as like superheroes in this kind of vein. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think part of the problem is just
00:27:24
Speaker
And this goes back to my thing with the comics too, is that the Eternals have never really been strong enough as a concept to kind of carry them into their own series, in my opinion. And I feel like that's kind of the same thing here with this movie, where you get a lot of interesting ideas, but
00:27:41
Speaker
the characters aren't really interesting enough to make me care about it as much. And I feel like the Eternals work much better when they're not the focus, when I like the backstory of them and the whole thing with the Celestials, but it feels like it works better with them, not as the main characters, but with them like integrated into the larger Marvel universe, I think. I'm not sure if you disagree or how you feel about that.
00:28:10
Speaker
Um, I, I think there's a way I mean certainly the current villain run makes them a lot more interesting. Because of that thing I can't spoil. So you're just gonna have to read it yourself. But there's a way to make them interesting and I think there's a way that the movie could have made them more interesting.
00:28:31
Speaker
By not being so committed to like making them into another iteration of the adventures because right not that is not what they are. Well, I think that's one of the strengths that marbles had with.
00:28:45
Speaker
with most of their superhero teams is that they all have like kind of like a set lane that they occupy, right? So it's, you know, you've had the Avengers, which is, you know, the big league superheroes, the Fantastic Four, they're a team, they're a family and they're a team of explorers. The X-Men is a school and the defenders are like, you know, this, like the weird kids that nobody wants to hang out with. And like all these different groups they've had, they have kind of this,
00:29:13
Speaker
this little thing that gives them a reason for being. And when you, and the Eternals being this ancient group and all that, that's kind of their stick. But when you try to make them a team of superheroes and you try to make them just like the Avengers, it doesn't work. And it just makes people, and people were watching it just like, you know what? Yeah, but you know, instead of having, you know, Cersei and Kingo, we could have had, you know, Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, it makes it made it a little bit totally dissonant to me and made me crave more like explorations of like some of the interesting implications of this movie like, for example, well, I suppose the layman and the mark and the MC you won't know but like
Celestial Concepts and Influences
00:30:01
Speaker
We're all basically like germs on this planet. We're just here to like incubate this baby. And like what are the sort of implications of that for people? Like it's kind of a big deal. Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, that originally comes from the Earth-X comics, doesn't it? The idea of- Right. Okay. Which I am-
00:30:23
Speaker
No, go ahead. I was just gonna say, like, I'm not sure if they've incorporated that into the main universe, Eternals comics at all. I don't believe so. There was a celestial at the center of the planet. I don't recall the details, but like some in Jason Aaron's current Avengers run, like the concept he introduced, but I don't think they've introduced the notion of,
00:30:49
Speaker
celestials using planets as incubators in the main um marvel in the 616 okay that is one thing i really appreciated about the movie is they went full on earth x like yeah i was like i i didn't think they would go there but they did so that was cool
00:31:14
Speaker
That was one of the things that surprised me. I wasn't expecting them to go full earth X with that. So I did like that addition there to add into the earth X stuff. And I thought it gives the eternal something to do basically. So I did like that aspect of it. So bringing in the earth X stuff and the celestial stuff, that was cool. And then the way that
00:31:36
Speaker
Tiamat is killed at the end with being kind of frozen in the earth like that. It did remind me of Aaron's Avengers and how their headquarters is basically this dead celestial. So it does make me wonder if they're gonna revisit that in future Avengers movies.
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah, like rewatching it, I kept thinking like, huh, who's going to live there now? And that island he came out of looks like a certain island in the comic where mutants live or something. Not that we want to go down that speculative route or anything. But I do want to talk about some of the other characters.
00:32:17
Speaker
So even though it wasn't as compelling to me, like I said, I did like Cersei. I like Kingo. I thought Kumail Nanjiani did a really good job in his portrayal of the character.
00:32:32
Speaker
And, you know, I was surprised, like, I'd seen like the stories about him, like getting buff. And as I'm watching him in like the Bollywood scene, I'm just like, man, he really did get, he really did buff up for that role. Yeah, but also I was like, you know, if you did that much work, I didn't even see one shirtless scene. Yeah. Done more, but I knew you worked hard. You could have gotten more mileage out of that, but yeah.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's weird that it's just the outfit like they have to do that to fit in those things. It's one possibility because I don't know if you I've seen them live and like museums and conventions and they're, they're like super tight and small. I mean of course they would be but like I.
00:33:15
Speaker
Like if you see it in person, I'm like, how could Kate Blanchett fit in that? That is a children's, that is a children's jumpsuit. But yeah, it is weird. Cause I remember them doing all this, I'm like, oh, so we'll probably see, you know, Kamal Nanjani being, having at least one shirtless scene in the movie, but we only ever see his arms. So, you know, you could have stayed a few hours at the gym and just work out on the arms and have to worry about it. Yeah. Yeah. Though I'm sure everyone is contractually obligated to,
00:33:45
Speaker
to do all that though it seems like it these days yeah um but and were they any characters that kind of jumped out uh for you in the movie um well we mentioned joey who's i think my favorite um uh ajack though felt very i mean what did you think about ajack i was like i felt like
00:34:12
Speaker
I think we could have gotten given some hike more to do, but it felt like she was really more just a plot device to get things, to get the narrative going in the movie and to sort of provide like the backdrop of the murder mystery. Yeah, yeah, I was kind of disappointed because what we see of her in the movie I liked, and I did wish we would have gotten to see more of her. Same also with Angelina Jolie-Estina. Yes, yes.
00:34:39
Speaker
I mean, we did get more of her than we expected, because originally that had just been intended to be a cameo. So we did get more of her. Really? Yeah, yeah. I did not know that. So we did get more of her than we expected in the movie, which I liked. One of the things too, like I couldn't understand why Angelina Jolie was using an accent in the movie. Was there an accent? Yeah, that wasn't her regular voice. So she's putting on a bit of an accent. And I couldn't understand for the life of me why, because
00:35:06
Speaker
so many of the characters, you know, they're just using some, the actors are just using for regular, you know, native accents. Like, you know, you've got Richard Madden, who's got like this kind of Scottish accent, you know, Gemma Chan speaking with an English accent, you know, Sprite, Face Dose, they're speaking with, you know, just regular standard American accent. So I couldn't understand why Angelina Jolie decides, I'm going to go with this pseudo-British accent. Like, I couldn't really define it.
00:35:32
Speaker
Well, apparently it's so subtle, I did not even notice. I think maybe it's because I had recently rewatched Gone in 60 Seconds. And so, you know, I had her voice very much front of mind when I rewatched the movie. I'm just like, that is not her regular voice.
00:35:56
Speaker
Gilgamesh felt like, yeah, it's sort of like this X-Men approach that you were talking about earlier where it's really hard to like find or notice anything super compelling about any of the other characters besides like the ones that they focus on. I feel like all of them have like a certain, they have one or two things to do in the movie and then they do them and then that's it.
00:36:20
Speaker
You know, Gilgamesh is a good point because that was a character that I wish we had gotten to see more of because I liked what we saw of him, but it's just, it's not enough. And I did also like the little conversations they had that tie it to the rest of the Marvel universe. Like when they're talking about hanging out with Odin and Thor chasing around. Yeah. Yeah. As a little kid and all that. I did like that kind of stuff and, and it makes sense. I did wish we would have gotten to see a little bit more of that kind of stuff in it, but
00:36:51
Speaker
But I don't know, I don't think they'll be getting the sequel out of this. Which is unfortunate, I think. I could maybe go for another one, but hopefully assuming that
00:37:12
Speaker
they commit to sort of a more weird or unconventional take on it. But I worry you may be right, though. Well, they did solve the problem of how are they going to keep Sprite young because that actor actress is definitely going to grow up. And so they did they did solve that problem, which I was wondering, as we're watching the movie, I'm like, something's got to happen to Sprite by the end of this movie, like either she's going to die or or something, because there's no way that
Casting Diversity and Changes
00:37:37
Speaker
they can
00:37:37
Speaker
have her stay ageless for the next for the sequel if they do a sequel. So it was it was kind of nice to see them kind of solve that problem.
00:37:49
Speaker
Oh, you know, some of the casting choices were interesting, too, because they had done a lot of flipping from the characters in the comics, because most of these characters are just white dudes in the comics, like Makari's a white dude, but here he becomes a deaf black woman. Ajax was a guy in the comics and, you know, ends up becoming Salma Hayek. No, Athena was the same, basically.
00:38:19
Speaker
they've done a lot of uh face those i'm not sure i didn't see him in the game at where i'm at of the game and run so i'm not sure what he was like in the comics but is he in there i don't recall i think he is yeah well even sprite right uh sprite was a boy in the comics and this uh she's a girl so they've done a lot of switching about that um what do you think about that because i thought it was it was kind of cool and it gave um
00:38:42
Speaker
It made, I did like the casting in this. I thought it was nice to see a casting that was a little bit more representative of humanity as a whole, as opposed to just white guys all over the place. Yeah.
00:38:56
Speaker
I may be the wrong person to ask because I'm very biased towards like, you know what, race blind casting, let's do it. Let's go for it. So yeah, I didn't have a problem with that. I thought it was really great. It made things more interesting as far as I'm concerned.
00:39:14
Speaker
I don't, and to me, so to me like these kinds of choices don't really have to be justified as far as I'm concerned, but even in the case of these characters, I think there's even more of a case to be made about like this being okay because
00:39:31
Speaker
Like these are cosmic God-like characters. They probably don't really give a crap about earthbound notions of gender. So who cares? And also it's cool. Like if you read the Gill and Run, he actually works that in where he mentions like, cause they resurrect every so often. And then there's a cool line there, I think in issue two where he inserts like, oh yeah, every like hundreds of every so often we just change genders cause whatever we're bored. So, you know, it's a thing.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah, which makes sense and you know you look at some of these gods and goddesses and they've got a there's precedent for doing that in the old in the old myths too so so it is, it is a cool thing to do and like you said, you know, because they're these ancient gods and goddesses, you don't have, you're not restrained to
00:40:20
Speaker
different socio political concerns like, you know, one of the arguments. My late co host used to make is that you can have a black Batman but you can't really have a black Bruce Wayne because there's so much.
00:40:33
Speaker
about the character and inherited wealth and all that and that. Where- Although, excuse me, there is a black Batman running around right now. Well, yeah, like you said, you can have a black Batman, but a black Bruce Wayne is a different story because Bruce Wayne is all about- Sure, sure. Inherited wealth in America. So that's, it's harder to do with that character. And other characters you can obviously switch fairly easily. Like Nick Fury doesn't have any connection necessarily to being black or white. You could easily make him either one.
00:41:02
Speaker
I mean, although I don't know, like I've had discussions about like, can we have a black Emma Frost and an African American Emma Frost? And I'm like, I think absolutely you can, but anyway. And the other thing too is like in the movie, they also established that like these aren't the only set of eternals that get sent out to like different planets and to do the celestial's bidding. And so I mean, it's always possible that
00:41:31
Speaker
there are different iterations of these characters. And, you know, they could be sending out like different versions of Ajax. So you can have like some Hayek Ajax or maybe there's another kind of Ajax running around somewhere else. Yeah. That was a pretty creepy scene where we see Cersei looking at like all the other versions of themselves. Yeah. And yeah. And what do you think about the decision to basically make Icarus the villain of the movie?
00:42:01
Speaker
Okay, your mileage may vary, but I seem to be on this like, I figure out that we've done it in the first five minutes of things. I'm like, this reveal is not surprising to me because he looked creepy the first time he showed up. Like something is not right with this person. So yeah, it was fine. Like the twist wasn't so twisty to me, although maybe shifting gears a little bit.
00:42:29
Speaker
They did not have any chemistry. I'm sorry. Like that romance is not compelling to me at all. Which it works in the modern day because they've been separated, but it doesn't work in the flashbacks. No, it doesn't. I'm like, I'm not buying. This is not so cute. Like when he tells her like you're beautiful and all that, I'm just kind of like that feels so rehearsed right now. Yeah.
00:42:54
Speaker
No, in that scene where he, I don't know, he made like some like foodie, whatever thing. And then, well, I'm going to have to learn their stuff, I guess, if I'm going to spend time with you. I'm like, Cersei, I just don't see it. But I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I guess there were slim pickings in the intervals. That's true. That's true. That's true. But yeah.
00:43:21
Speaker
I mean, he did okay with what he was given, but in general, I wasn't really that impressed with Icarus as a character. Just way too much stoicism. And it did make you realize why she ends up going for Dane in the first place, because he's like the complete opposite of what Icarus is. So like after being with this guy for 5,000 years, it makes sense why you'd want to go with someone who's a little bit more laid back.
00:43:47
Speaker
Although, like, she waited for him though. Like, I think she said that, but yeah. Yeah.
Casting and Future Speculations
00:43:55
Speaker
Well, speaking of, because I think he was probably the biggest casting news, at least in the circles I ran in, because he was probably the character that most Marvel fans were familiar with, was Kit Harington as Dane Whitman. What do you think of that casting choice and his character in the movie?
00:44:10
Speaker
It worked for me. I think I need to see more and I maybe need to see him as like donning the helmet and wielding the sword, which now that I think about it, he has a lot of experience wielding swords and such to make a final decision. But I think he did a good job in here just to sort of being like the charming earthbound human boyfriend to the eternal.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I like the references they threw in, like the fact about his uncle and him being estranged from his uncle because, you know, his uncle is the first Black Knight in the comic who appeared in the comics and he was a criminal. So I did like that little callback. I did like that he had the ebony blade at the end.
00:44:55
Speaker
and how they had the Black Knight symbol in the ring as his family crest that she gives him. So all of that, I thought it was cool to see those little callbacks. I'm just like, that's something I recognize in a movie based on characters that I have no familiarity with.
00:45:10
Speaker
And although I see this may be another reason for a sequel is I just want to see what the plan is to try to locate your cosmic girlfriend with a sword thing. Like I just, I want to see, I want to see what the plan is there.
00:45:28
Speaker
Yeah. Now, for me, actually, I think the most interesting scenes in this were actually the mid and post credit scene. So we had Star Fox pop up at the end. What do you think of that and the casting of Harry Styles?
00:45:46
Speaker
So I mean, the concept of like, he's the most beautiful man ever is already dubious from the start. And so I, again, you're my little guy with Harry Styles, but I think he did good with the sort of part of the story that he had to play. And I think he embodied the character well.
00:46:07
Speaker
And they, I was really, I mean, the movie, so we did, I think we threw a lot of criticism at it, but I think one of the things I enjoyed a lot was just when I thought they couldn't get deeper with the cuts, they keep one upping themselves and sort of paying off like, oh, I'm Thanos' brother. I'm like, oh, okay, we're doing that. And what is that gonna mean for all the movies going forward?
00:46:34
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that was an interesting choice too because they advanced no mention of Thanos being an eternal or anything like that.
00:46:40
Speaker
or having a family, right? Having a larger family. So you get the sense that everybody on Titan was just like him. So having him tie him into the Eternals actually does make a lot of sense then that way because he had had that situation in the comics too where you've got this purple wrinkly chin guy as like the only, where the rest of his family are all white people.
00:47:08
Speaker
Right. And pretty. And, you know, for the most part, human looking. Yeah. Which is a nice bit of comic accuracy. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I loved seeing Patton Oswalt as Pip the Troll. I thought that was a great piece of casting. Was that Patton Oswalt? That was Patton Oswalt. Yeah. Oh, my God. OK.
00:47:28
Speaker
But like, okay, but just his voice, right? Like, was that was that him? I think it was a mix. I think he definitely did motion capture for it. Because I definitely recognize his face. All right. And he's teleporting, which I thought he could only do because he had the space jam. But maybe that's not the case. That's a good point. Yeah. Or maybe it's a
00:47:55
Speaker
maybe they had raided the time variance authority from Loki. Indeed, indeed. I don't know, but that's a good point. Yeah, I wonder how they're gonna handle that. Well, there's a lot of questions about how they're gonna handle, because they had introduced the infinity stones before introducing some of the characters that were connected to them. Like Adam Warlock's gonna be in Guardians of the Galaxy 3, but the Soul Gem's long gone now, so it's gonna be interesting to see how they use that.
00:48:18
Speaker
Well, I mean, I'm just totally guessing, but I mean, there were infinity stones, but maybe there's infinity gems as well. Well, and also the gems, you know, they're destroyed, but they're just like containers. So the energy still exists somehow. So we'll be curious to see what they do with that kind of stuff.
00:48:38
Speaker
Also the post-credits scene with Dane and the Ebony Blade. I really liked the way the little glimpse we get of the Ebony Blade and how it's like moving as he reaches out for it. I thought that was a really cool touch. And then we get a little surprise cameo voice at the end. Indeed, indeed. Do you pick up on who that was?
00:49:00
Speaker
It's Mahershala Ali. That's Blade. There's another Blade in the scene, by the way. I was watching about the subtitles and they just said, mysterious man.
00:49:13
Speaker
Oh, so I mean, I guess they'll be hunting vampires together. I guess so. Yeah. Or some sort of midnight sun type thing or something like that. So, which will be cool. Like I love, I love that. I, that concept. And so it'd be really cool to see what they do with, with blade going forward, hopefully not making them an Avenger. Cause though I like Karen's run, I don't think blade should be an Avenger.
00:49:37
Speaker
I know, I mean, I guess we can go into a little bit of tangents. I feel like ever since Bendis, they've had this like, everyone's an Avenger. Yeah. Everyone can be an Avenger. I'm like, okay. That's one of the things I really disliked about Bendis' run is just how it's like, hey, everybody's an Avenger now. I'm like, come on. It used to mean something. Oh, oh. So that's a bit of a digression there.
00:50:02
Speaker
Did you notice, and I don't know what kind of legal wrangling they had to do, but apparently Batman and Superman exists in the MCU. Yeah, well they, or at least as fictional characters. Yeah, right, right. I thought that was cute. And it does make sense because they have all these references to them influencing the ancient gods and goddesses. So it does make sense that someone like Icarus could be the inspiration for Superman.
00:50:32
Speaker
So I thought that was a cool little, little nod and also that just calling him, you know, just the mention of what's his name being like Alfred. Yeah, it was cute. Those little moments were, and those little moments when they're interacting were when I found them the most interesting.
00:50:55
Speaker
And the larger story just didn't really interest me as much as the individual characters maybe did. And I wish we would have seen more of them. Okay, Pat, anything else you wanted to mention about Eternals?
00:51:11
Speaker
I guess we can conclude with, I think it's worth a view from folks, especially if you are an MCU fan. I don't think it deserved all the hate that it got. And certainly I don't think it's not the worst Marvel movie. To me, that distinction still belongs to the dark world.
00:51:32
Speaker
For me, it's still Iron Man 3. Oh, OK. For me, it's still the Dark World. So it's certainly a lot better than that. I just think that there was a lot of conflicting impulses in this movie and a lot of like different tonal mismatches, which may be a product of perhaps the director and the writers wanting to tell one story and getting a lot of notes from the studio who perhaps not a different kind of movie.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that for the for the most part as well. One thing I want to mention too is it is a beautiful movie. Like I will say, right? Yes. I mean, agreed. Yes. Yes. And it I feel bad for Chloe Zhao because she she deserved a better movie than than this. Hopefully she gets to do more stuff with Marvel, despite this, because it does look amazing. And
00:52:25
Speaker
And also like, I love how they do, the Eternals and all their powers are consistent with each other. They've all got those like kind of like, you know, outline type effects to them. I did like that, that they had all linked them together that way and showed them that they're all consistent in that way.
00:52:43
Speaker
Yeah, I just want to echo that, too. It's so just aesthetically wonderful. Everything on the screen looks pretty. Chloe Zhang has a good eye, obviously, the scale of it, the visuals. I particularly like all of the designs when she goes to the World Forge. I mean, it's CGI, but it's very beautiful and gorgeous.
00:53:06
Speaker
Well, I think they did a good job of capturing the Kirby aesthetic without being slaves to
Visual Praise Amid Criticism
00:53:11
Speaker
it. So I thought they did a really good job of that. Although I was, I got to admit, I was kind of hoping for a little bit of Kirby crackle. A little bit of crackle, yeah. A little bit of Kirby crackle would have been nice, but other than that.
00:53:22
Speaker
No, but speaking of the World Forge, I just remember this rewatching the movie yesterday. I don't know if you've read the Al Ewing run of, I'm not sure what that, it's his run on the Inhumans, but they actually visit the World Forge in that title. Oh, okay, no, I haven't read it in humans. Yeah, I'm like, oh, that's a, I mean, I thought that was a pretty cool callback reference to that. Inhumans is another one, like the Eternals that I just, I was never really able to get into them, so.
00:53:53
Speaker
just in humans and eternals. Those are like the two Marvel properties that just never really held any interest for me. Yeah. And to be fair, like I do think along with the eternals, the in humans are the most interesting to me when they're playing with other people. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Not so much just by themselves. Yeah. Okay. So I think that about ends our conversation for eternals. So Pat, you want to tell people where they can find you online?
00:54:22
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I have a tumbler called perfect Faberge killing machine that you can check out particularly if you're after more Amafrost content in your life. Um, also like we mentioned earlier, I'm on another podcast with a few other friends called Krakowin exports. So check us out if you want to learn more or curious about the, well for us current Hickman era, but I guess the Krakowin era in general.
00:54:50
Speaker
Yep, and also you can listen to both Pat and myself and our other co-host Oscar on EAF Revolution, examining Grant Morrison's X-Men. This show, as always, superherocinephiles.com is the website, SuperCinemapod on both Twitter and Instagram. Make sure you like us, make sure you rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts. And that about does it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time.
00:55:18
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles, where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com.
00:55:40
Speaker
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00:56:10
Speaker
Good night. Good evening. God bless.