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Becoming a World Archaeologist in 2024 - Ep 280
749 Plays10 months ago
You got into this field to travel, right? Well instead of traveling to Iowa, no shade on Iowa, why not travel to Saudi Arabia? Or how about England? Who knows? There’s no reason why you can’t create the career of your dreams. We talk about some options to do just that on today’s episode.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/280
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube) Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
ArchPodNet
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Transcript
Introduction and Premise
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CRM archaeology podcast, episode 280 for January 10th, 2024. I'm your host, Chris Webster. On today's show, we talk about making yourself a world archaeologist. So get your fedora and passport ready because the CRM archaeology podcast starts right now.
00:00:47
Speaker
Welcome to the show, everyone. Joining me today is Bill in Northern California. Hello. And Heather, somewhere in the northern Midwest, not California. I don't know if you want to tell where you're at. Chicago, that's right. Chicago. There you go. That's where I'm from, a Chicago girl, originally. That's right. That's right. You escaped the crazy, wet, ridiculous wave weather they're having down in Southern California for snow instead. There you go. Right. Yeah.
00:01:12
Speaker
All right. Well, just let the audience know we are recording this on the last day of the year, 2023, December 31st.
Milestones and Achievements
00:01:19
Speaker
And I know this comes out on January 10th. So I just want to let you know that we do record this about a week and a half ahead of time. The significance of that is if you follow our socials, you would have seen this towards the end of the year.
00:01:29
Speaker
But we hit for the first time in the just over nine years of the archaeology podcast network, we hit 1 million downloads in a calendar year, which puts us somewhere around 8 to 9 million downloads total for the whole network, of course, the life of the network. But that's the first time we've hit a million downloads in a calendar year.
00:01:50
Speaker
nuts. It's really crazy. So thanks to everybody who's listening for sharing this and letting other people know about the podcast because every little bit helps. And this is kind of a small show on the network because, well, it's a niche topic in a small audience. But every little bit helps and we really appreciate it.
00:02:06
Speaker
Bill, did you ever think we would be talking about a million downloads when we started this program? I didn't think there was enough people who wanted to hear about real archaeology, you know, because we don't have any magical cities or, you know, we never discover anything. Aliens never do it on our show. So I was surprised that people wanted to hear about actual archaeology, but it's amazing. It's great.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, indeed.
Humorous Takes on Archaeology and Culture
00:02:28
Speaker
Indeed. In fact, I met my brother and sister-in-law's house and there was a documentary being played on TV. I think it was from Netflix or something like that called Encounters. All about UFOs and aliens and stuff, but this one guy was on. I just got to say that since we're in the Christmas season and
00:02:42
Speaker
We're talking about aliens. He brought up, he was like, he reads his children a Bible passage every morning, by the way. This is where the guy's coming from. So he's very religious, very Christian, but saw these lights in the sky in Texas and a whole bunch of people did. Apparently it's a big well-known event back in like the nineties or something.
00:02:57
Speaker
And he's got his kids believing in himself that Jesus was probably an alien because he came down to this planet to save everybody and came from somewhere else. So he was probably in reality an alien, not a human, and really believes that. And it's kind of an interesting viewpoint though, because you ask people that if aliens do exist, which
00:03:19
Speaker
more probably they do, but can they get here? More probably not. But even if they did, did God create them too? Does Jesus save the aliens or just humans? I'm going to say yes, right? I'm going to say yes because at the end, there's going to be someone with this old book checking off all the bad stuff I did. And I want this to be a day where I did good. So I say yes. I say they were created and yes, I agree.
00:03:45
Speaker
Well, there you go.
Seasonal Challenges in Archaeology
00:03:47
Speaker
I'm only bringing this up in the context of archaeology because it would throw something like the entire archaeological record going back a certain amount of time into question if aliens did exist and things were actually turned out to be, you know, all that kind of stuff. But it's all just wacky. We have a show on the archaeology podcast called Breaking Up Ancient Aliens where Fred Rick, one of the hosts, he pours over the ancient aliens episodes. God bless him. I got to say, because
00:04:11
Speaker
They're horrific, but he goes through them and brings through the evidence against basically everything that they're saying and just talks about the reality behind what they're talking about. So if you're interested in that kind of stuff, go listen to his show.
00:04:23
Speaker
All right. So with that, we're just kind of chatting about the end of 2023, the beginning of 2024, the winter, you know, moving out of the Christmas season. I mean, you're listening to this in what's becoming the middle of January, one of the coldest months of the year, January and February typically. And so you're either lucky enough to be doing CRM right now and having a job.
00:04:45
Speaker
where you're doing some lab work or maybe you're in a region where it doesn't really get a winter and you can work outside. At least the snow's
Industry Changes and Opportunities
00:04:52
Speaker
not on the ground. That's really all that matters. It can be cold. It doesn't matter how cold it is. If there's snow on the ground, it makes it difficult to do survey. But if you're in one of those areas where you can still work, then great. And that's one of the things we were talking about. We used to have conversations on this show around this time about, oh, what do you do over the winter? And that two, three months where you're off and you had to save up money for. But I'm just hearing chatter just anecdotally online.
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, a lot fewer people are actually off for the winter these days. And I have a feeling it's due to the fact that, well, there seems to be fewer people in the field. I think Bill, you brought that up. And also there's just bigger and bigger firms that are running the shows these days and a lot fewer smaller firms, which means that the bigger firms, I mean, well, they can, they can either afford to keep you doing stuff over the winter that maybe not related to archeology, or they've got to work in places where they can shuffle you around and move you to where the work is.
00:05:45
Speaker
And they're more diversified too, I think. And Heather, you mentioned something along those lines. So Heather, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say that this is a good reminder for those that are in areas with cold weather climates that think that they are limited by their geography as to the amount of work that they can do. And that's really not true. I think if you have worked in that area for a very long time or a decent amount of time, you may not realize that
00:06:12
Speaker
You know, they're obviously we all know there's a shortage of archaeologists right now. And so, you know, if you're working for firms, the firm that I work for, you know, it's not that much of an extra expense to fly somebody somewhere. So, you know, really, you're still putting people up in a hotel, you're still giving them per diem and mileage and and all that sort of expenses. So just having a an airfare somewhere.
00:06:41
Speaker
it's not that big of a deal, right? If you have a large enough project where you're spending money on hotel and per diem, spending the money on an, on airfare is not that much of a difference. And so it really opens up your
00:06:54
Speaker
potential employment opportunities. And I hope everybody keeps that in mind. Everybody should be able to work year round now. You know, obviously there's some limitations, personal limitations that might prevent you from being able to travel too much. But if you do have that option to travel and it doesn't have to be for months on end, it can be for
00:07:15
Speaker
especially if it's a, an assessment based work where it's not monitoring, you know, you come in for a couple of weeks and you're back home. So that's becoming, I think more and more prevalent now because it's difficult if as
00:07:31
Speaker
as firms move into more and more geographies, they come into an area, they don't know who the technicians are, which is also too bad for the local technicians. But, you know, it just opens up your possibility of employment. So make sure that you're casting a very wide net and that you're preparing ahead of time, that you don't get to the winter and now you're like, Oh, okay, now I need more work. You know, start putting your name out and your resume out to
00:07:57
Speaker
places around the country and places maybe that you would like to gain experience in. Yeah. Yeah. That's excellent advice about preparing for the downtime in the winter because I remember when I first started doing cultural resources, I didn't do that. And so there was always a time around, you know, December, January, February, where I was essentially unemployed, right? I was living in Idaho at the time. And so it snows. There's no survey.
00:08:25
Speaker
it's really hard to dig because the ground freezes in a lot of areas and stuff and so, you know, there was this time where you're just kind of scrambling looking for work but of course everyone else is in the area and so it's just really kind of hard to make that shift whereas if I had known other ways that I could have left and gone to a place where
00:08:43
Speaker
it was warmer and where things keep going. I mean, in Arizona, the winter is a great time to work, but it always seemed like it was slow for some reason. And I was mentioning this before we started the show, maybe someone can talk about this end of the year phenomenon where the companies where I was working at, they were always kind of like, well, things are kind of slow right now, even though it's the best time to work in Arizona. And then the worst time to work outside in Arizona, it was when we were absolutely like, you know, hustling to get things done in July.
00:09:12
Speaker
And in August, right, in June when it's boiling hot outside, that's when everything was booming. And so I always had these questions about, well, what happens at the end of the year at a CRM company? Why is it that all of a sudden there's this rush to get certain contracts done and there's fewer contracts and stuff? And so maybe someone who knows more can tell us a little bit more about that.
Project Timelines vs Ideal Conditions
00:09:34
Speaker
Well, say as far as the timing, that is a major frustration because, you know, we have projects quite a bit in the desert regions of California and Arizona, Nevada. And it is, you always had that question, why are we working in the height of the heat? And, you know, the timing,
00:09:54
Speaker
Fieldwork is has very little to do with the serum company it's very much unless the serum companies are not all that organized but for the most part it's really based on the client's need and i mean for me i can speak on my end once we get authorized to do fieldwork.
00:10:12
Speaker
we're moving as quickly as we can to do that field work. We're not sitting back and say, okay, well, let's wait until the weather's better because I don't know any clients really that are willing to just let us wait until everything is a rush, right? Until it's a hurry up and wait on the client's end, right? And they're like, yes, yes, let's go, let's go. And then all of a sudden you have a lag or the authorization for the larger cost of the field work doesn't come in. So I think
00:10:38
Speaker
A lot of times it has nothing to do with the actual managers from the CRM side. It's usually client driven, the schedule is. At least that's what I experienced.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah. I've never seen a client say, oh, here's the project's assigned. We're good to go. Start it whenever you want. It just doesn't work that way. The exception might be some of the a little more esoteric like BLM projects or even military projects where it's just something they have to get done within a certain time. But there's not a hard, we have to start here and we have to end here kind of thing. So you do see those occasionally. But yeah, your general client-based work that's more
00:11:18
Speaker
I guess construction related usually is you're behind before you start anyway, because everything took longer to get started to begin with. All right. Well, let's take a break right there and come back and keep talking about this on the other side, back in a minute.
00:11:32
Speaker
Welcome back to episode two 80 of the CRM archaeology podcast. The first one of 2024. We're really, uh, really jumping up there in time. It's crazy. Yeah. I know. So they don't see our face. We're just aging away. I mean, Heather looks great, but you and I are just withering away. You know,
00:11:50
Speaker
I don't know, Bill. I'm going to be 50 in like a year and a half. And I still don't have any gray hair. My wife hates me for that because she's 40 and is like, you know, loaded with gray hair. Okay. Well, that's just me then. I guess I'm the one who's the winner in a way. I was looking at some pictures from like four or five years and I'm like, who's that guy? You know, what's going on here, man? Geez. I look like Father Time and it's only been like five years.
00:12:11
Speaker
Oh man. All right. Well, we are basically just kind of chit chatting here about end of the year, beginning of the year and doing
Career Development Tips for Archaeologists
00:12:19
Speaker
things. And one of the things I wanted to pick up here too was some of these firms, you know, we talked about diversification of your, of what your firm does, not only your own skillset, you should always diversify that, you know, whether it's diversified within the field of archeology or diversified within and without the field, outside the field of archeology, right? So you've got some side hustle stuff that,
00:12:38
Speaker
you know, could be a savior in times of need. So that being said, I just got to mention Chronicle Heritage, the former Paleo West. These guys seem to be freaking everywhere at this point, right? I mean, I know people that are working in Saudi Arabia on projects that they're working on. They're just getting contracted for contract in Saudi Arabia because they're doing so much work over there and they need people to actually do the work. They have laws, they have CRM regulations and they need somebody to do that. And they don't have a lot of people in country apparently that
00:13:08
Speaker
can do that kind of work logistically, right? So Chronicle Heritage put up their hand, applied for the projects, and now they're just working over there consistently for the last couple of years. Well, AECOM has been there for a while. Well, yeah, AECOM's a big engineering firm, but the thing about Chronicle Heritage that gets me is
00:13:24
Speaker
They're archeology, right? And they started as a smallish pure archeology firm and then just grew up that way. And now they're buying other archeology firms. They were bought by a big firm. So now they're Chronicle Heritage. And one of the things I'll mention real quick before Heather jumps in here is the reason I'm thinking about them right now is I saw an article on Apple News just the other day about, I don't know if you guys know that horrific show, The Curse of Oak Island, where they're trying to find that treasure up in Nova Scotia.
00:13:53
Speaker
It's like for 10 years or whatever it is, they just keep digging, saying, I'm sure we're going to find it this year. They just keep digging. Well, people keep watching. I actually met through this other business that I do, a producer on that show. And he said, you know, off the record, because I'm not going to name him. But he's like, you know, they do find treasure every year. It's in their bank account every year they find treasure.
00:14:23
Speaker
So anyway, the thing I thought was interesting is they named this article is talking about an archaeologist that was on the season that was just released, apparently the most recent season, whatever that is. And they did this little bio on her and she's an archaeologist with Chronicle Heritage and she was hired.
00:14:38
Speaker
by Curse of Oak Island to be their archaeological representative for any cultural finds they may find there. And that's, again, that's no shade on her. It's a wacky, crazy project, but it's still a project with heavy construction equipment that is digging up stuff in a heavily Native American lived area.
00:14:54
Speaker
Therefore, you need to do CRM. I'm glad there. I can totally see how Hollywood could skirt past that, I guess, discovery channel Hollywood, whatever. I think that they could probably get away with it, especially if they're on private property. But interesting times now that these shows do have consulting archaeologists on board.
00:15:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, there's been a few shows, right, that we've seen come along that really came under fire for doing some inappropriate things. And so I think that it's a, it's a small cost to limit their liability in that way. So I mean, the show gets the cancel, it gets canceled when we watch them, you know, rip burials and stuff like that. They just, yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
And then, you know, just so some background, I can't share a whole lot, but, you know, Saudi Arabia, I did some consulting there. So they had academic archaeologists out there. And unfortunately, they had some stealing of some artifacts and, you know, foreign archaeologists were coming in and they were taking artifacts and taking it back. And I'm thinking to myself,
00:16:01
Speaker
of all countries. That's one country I wouldn't mess with. I don't know what that person was thinking, and I don't ever know what happened to them. But I don't think I would, if I'm going to steal artifacts from anywhere, it certainly wouldn't be Saudi
Global CRM Opportunities and Regulations
00:16:13
Speaker
Arabia. But the repercussions there are just not worth it. So in the beginning, even a couple of years ago, they really didn't have any cultural resource management
00:16:23
Speaker
regulations or laws or anything like that for a long time. It was just academics that were coming in and doing that work. And so they were looking, they were looking around specifically at the United States and looking for opportunities to create a cultural heritage management program. And they literally in two to three years have gone on super drive. I mean, like, and have created what they have right now. And it's still, you know, evolving. But when I was acting as a consultant,
00:16:51
Speaker
and creating, you know, working with them to at least get an idea of what it was that they're going to have to do in order to create a workable program. You know, AECOM was out there at the time. And then you're right. All of a sudden, Paleo West or Chronicle Heritage went out there, but they were really desperate for archaeologists that were coming from the CRM side. They realized that the academic archaeologists were a different sort of archaeology.
00:17:20
Speaker
And so they were looking for something that not only would help them manage and set up regulations to protect their heritage, but also to use that heritage while they're protecting it to also create tourism. And so, you know, that business side of things, everything is a business right now in Saudi Arabia. The whole thing is about, you know, gating tourists. So, you know, Chronicle Heritage jumped in and they got
00:17:50
Speaker
You know, they got a piece of the pie, but they're not the only ones, but they are growing exponentially because of it. But there's other people that are involved. They're not the only ones. I mean, this is something too that I saw. I used to work for a company when I first moved to Tucson and they had projects in Senegal and I was just so pumped up for the chance to go and work on these international projects. And then it just kind of turned into, you know, the
00:18:16
Speaker
people who had PhDs and the ones who were buddies with the owner, they were the ones who really got to go to Mongolia and Senegal and the rest of us just got to go to like, you know, Parker, Arizona to run around, you know, so we did, we didn't get to do any of that kind of stuff. But I saw back then the total potential because you know, UNESCO has laws, the World Bank and the IMF, they have laws on
00:18:36
Speaker
you know, disturbing cultural heritage and stuff. And you know, the rule is that it's supposed to be conducted by the country that the project's going down in, if it's funded by the World Bank or the IMF, or the country who's doing the lead on the design or the construction, whichever has more stringent cultural resources laws. So I can absolutely see how these companies from all around the area that are working on these infrastructure projects in Saudi Arabia, they probably in the void when they don't have cultural laws,
00:19:06
Speaker
folks could get away with a bunch of stuff, now they beef up their laws and their laws are more stringent than these other construction companies or other contractors they've hired. And so now they're doing, you know, they've increased their CRM nexus. And so the prime candidate are European countries in the United States that have CRM already built that have folks that know how to do it. So do you ever see it kind of like
00:19:29
Speaker
endless summer type of job where you can just, you know, oh, man, we're working over here in California now. Oh, we're headed to Florida. Oh, now we're off to, you know, Nigeria. And then we're going to head on back around to, I don't know, Indonesia. And then we're back in California. Do you see that kind of happening where people can just kind of go around the world's northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere, just traveling from project to project? And like, you know, how would you how would you craft that dream job? Because I can see how
00:19:56
Speaker
folks would get burned out going to, you know, the middle of Kansas and then moving on to Iowa and then moving on to like, you know, Missouri and being like, gosh, when is the end of this digging shovel probes? But what if you could level up to the point where you just travel all around the world and do archaeology? I mean, how could you build a career like that? I've never even envisioned that until just now.
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, I think I mean, it definitely have to have a nomadic sense to you. You have to be OK with doing that. But I think there's a lot of us in this in this business that actually that's part of the attraction of the of archaeology is that nomadic lifestyle, so to speak, if you can afford to do it. Right. It's hard if you have a family. But I think that there's so many countries out there that do not have proper heritage management programs.
00:20:41
Speaker
You know, being protected by UNESCO and everything that that's just, I mean, it's like comparing areas in the United States that are really just had the federal laws and don't have many state laws. It's, it's a world difference between a place that is only protected by federal laws and let's say California. So.
00:21:01
Speaker
you know, there's so much growth potential. I do think that hopefully there's going to be some controls there because you do need people that are going to be, you can't have just people going in and doing work and not having any experience in the region or at least being supervised by people with experience in the region. So hopefully, you know, as these heritage management programs grow,
00:21:21
Speaker
that there is some structure in there to make sure there's oversight by people who really do know the area and know the region. What was interesting to me when I was involved in this in the beginning and I could have gone to Saudi Arabia but at the time my mom was ailing and I didn't want to leave her for an extended period of time so I chose not to do that and what I did was just
00:21:42
Speaker
from a remote spot. But Saudi Arabia was focusing on, so they have careers that are based on sex. So you have males tend to have one type of career, females tend to have another type of career. Some of that, a lot of that is because you're separating the sexes and not having too much intermingling, although some of that is changing now.
00:22:05
Speaker
But even when I was working just a couple of years ago, the idea was that archaeology was going to be a female based, which I thought was interesting, a female based discipline. I don't know if that's where Saudi Arabia is still going. It seems like and their ambition when I was working with them.
00:22:23
Speaker
was that they wanted to train their own people so that their own people could do the archaeology and that eventually Americans, it wouldn't be the Americans or Westerners that were coming in and doing the archaeology, that they were being trained, they were training their own people to do it. And then eventually they wouldn't be dependent on foreigners coming in.
00:22:43
Speaker
I mean, that's the brilliant pathway to be, you know, self-sustaining and also build up your own infrastructure.
Opportunities for PhD Students in CRM
00:22:50
Speaker
To me, it just seems like this is like the prime position for like folks who are PhD students, right? Because I can see how in the beginning, because you are kind of the person who has to come in and work with, you know, local folks who have that cultural knowledge, but also have that knowledge of the archaeology. So I can see how they'd be more willing to hire people with PhDs because that whole
00:23:11
Speaker
you know, degree thing going on, right? But I can absolutely see how once it had been started up, then it would be the same, a similar tier here, where there's folks that are from those local countries, there's folks that have masters and other things. And, you know, it kind of turns into a different image of what we have here. So, I mean, it just envisions like that would be the easiest pathway. I would say, yes, I mean, I would agree, but
00:23:36
Speaker
PhD, it cannot, it's not going to be able to come from just an academic sense. You know, they're going to have to have an understanding of the regulatory side of things. And this is where, you know, we harp on this a lot, but this is where, you know, academics are going to have to start opening up their minds to, to understanding the regulatory side of things, because if they're going to be involved in these countries, that's where it's going. Well, some other day we'll talk about academics and where their heads are.
00:24:05
Speaker
I do think it's an optimum. It's a great opportunity. But I don't see any universities are not thinking about that or thinking. So, you know, folks, I've said it many times like you won't see any change come from a university. You're going to see it come from the industry and from the students and people, new hires and everyone else. You'll never see academia change its gaze from anywhere but its belly button.
00:24:32
Speaker
OK, well, on that cheery note, let's go to the segments and we'll come back and wrap this up on the other side back in a minute.
00:24:41
Speaker
Welcome back to episode two 80 with a serum archeology podcast. And we're talking about, you know, just the beginning of the year here and, and, and what you can do. And I tell you what, this went in a completely different direction than we even talked about in the beginning. And that's creating a career in world archeology. You know, I mean, I want to do that is all I'm saying. My kids are almost graduating high school. I'm like, yeah, yeah.
00:25:03
Speaker
Let me tell you, Paul from the ArcheoTech Podcast, he was in archeology, academia, got his PhD back in the late 90s, I believe it was, and late, late 90s, I think at the end of the 90s, maybe even early 2000s. Then when him and his wife were having their first child, just came to the realization that this wasn't going to cut it as far as career-wise. They lived in New York City.
00:25:28
Speaker
you know, it's just expensive. And, and so he ended up getting a job as an IT person, but still kind of keeping his toe in, in archeology through some of his side stuff. But basically his side, his main job was as in the IT department at a private school in New York. And just a few years ago, he retired from there and
00:25:45
Speaker
There were various reasons. He retired early for sure. It's not like he was in his late 60s. I think he's in his early 50s now. But he retired from there and then wanted to just go back into CRM. He actually worked for me for a little bit on a couple of projects, just as a field tech. He's got a PhD in archaeology from 20 plus years ago.
00:26:04
Speaker
He worked as a field tech and then within a few years, I mean, he just kept finding small work. He was humble about it. He didn't care about where he worked. He didn't be like, I have a PhD. You're going to pay me this and I'm going to do this. He was just like, I just want to go dig some holes and get out of the house.
00:26:19
Speaker
So that's basically where his attitude was. And he just kept at it though. And now he is the one I was talking about that is spending months and months at a time over the last couple of years over in Saudi Arabia, working for a company over there. Like we said, there's a number of companies working over there. But he's been working over there and
Balancing Career and Personal Identity
00:26:38
Speaker
doing different things. Plus, he's keeping his toe in the academic side of things, keeping those associations together. So he's gone over and done some academic projects over there as well in Iraq and some other areas.
00:26:48
Speaker
And he just, he loves the middle East and working over there. And I think if, if you just keep your eyes open and you keep your options open and you don't continue to shut things down based on, you know, these tiny little things that you can nitpick and say, well, I don't know about that. I don't know about this. What am I going to do about that? Don't worry about it. Just do it. See what happens, right? Like what's the worst that could happen? And people always try to find these little things. And this is not even,
00:27:16
Speaker
related to the topic, but it's related to the apathy people have. But every time I talk to somebody about RVing, right? Like my wife and I, as everybody knows, it's been three and a half years now. We've been living full time in an RV. And I always get people that say, Oh, I wish I could do that. And like, okay.
00:27:32
Speaker
Why is there a full stop at the end of that sentence? Like, why aren't you doing that? And like, well, I've got this job. Well, I've got kids. Well, I've got blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, literally everybody I know that's doing this has jobs, has kids, has pets, has all the things that everybody else has. They just found a way to make it work. So quit your bitchin', right? And find a way to make it work. And I know that there are big logistical hurdles that people have, but
00:27:57
Speaker
if there's something you want to do, just write it down, figure out what that career looks like, that thing that you want to do, maybe it's only for a year, and then just do it. Just find a way against all odds and just do it. The other thing too, because you started off with talking about how we have a million folks listening to the podcast network, right? I remember in those early days, the whole idea was to talk about cultural resources to try and help people navigate the careers that we'd had for a long time. And both of us were
00:28:25
Speaker
you know, in between jobs and going all over and, you know, trying to find work and, you know, you started a company, I went for a PhD program, but the whole thing was like,
00:28:34
Speaker
you know, how are you going to make this work? And there wasn't really any archaeology podcast except for, you know, absolutely produced stuff from, you know, Nat Geo and stuff. And so we didn't know how it was going to turn out, but there wasn't anyone doing it. And so we just started doing it. And, you know, it ended up now we have a million listeners or a million downloaders. But the thing that we're talking about of being a world archaeologist, like there isn't a job for that.
00:29:00
Speaker
I mean, all the professors are stuck in their little niche and we go to our little island or our little community and dig our little thing and then we go back to our, you know, musty little desk. So you can't be asking your professors how that's going to work and we don't all work for international companies. So there's not someone who's like, oh yeah, I know how they got those contracts. They don't know how they got those things, right?
00:29:20
Speaker
So even those companies that have those contracts, there's no one who's a specialist in world archaeology who just travels the world, right? So you're going to have to make it up. And if you think that this sounds awesome, I mean, yeah, just like Chris was saying, there's no pathway. You're going to have to discover this on your own because no one's going to be able to give you advice. It's not like the CRM podcast where we had to learn how to podcast, but we knew about CRM. There's no one who's going to help you. You have to really invent this on your own. It sounds amazing. I want to try it.
00:29:48
Speaker
And so I don't know where to go, but I know I'm going to start figuring it out because it sounds like there's CRM around the world. I'm sitting around missing it out. And I think, you know, just use the resources that resources that you have. Don't be afraid to ask questions. You know, you know, start googling, start you hear here. We say, OK, if you're interested in going inside of Arabia, we said there are there's Paul that's there. Reach out to him. And those of us on on APN are
00:30:19
Speaker
fairly accessible. So, you know, I don't think you have to go it alone. Going to another country, especially one that is culturally very different than yours is exciting, but there are some realities you need to consider. So yes, you can go, but don't go with wild abandon and go smartly, but don't let those details stop you from going after something that's interesting. And especially those that are young now that you're not tied down when you're starting having children, it's a little bit more difficult.
00:30:47
Speaker
take advantage of the freedom and independence that you have right now to go and explore and try different things. And that's the one thing with archaeology that I think sometimes can be very short-sighted. I understand the idea that we need to have regional experts. That's great. But I think that we get very stuck in our own methodology when we haven't worked in other parts of the world and the country. And so having experience in other parts of the world is just going to make you a better archaeologist.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah. Not only that too, Heather, you were kind of alluding to this, but if you're going somewhere like Saudi Arabia, for example, because they're the topic at hand, I mean, maybe take a look at their cultural laws and regulations. And if that's not something you want to abide by, then don't go there because just your American passport is not going to shield you from what you may think are some relatively crazy laws, especially towards women.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. And your American sensibilities are also not going to, are not going to nag it. You can't go in there and just say, well, I'm just going to change things because that's the way it should be. It does not work that way in all countries. So yeah, definitely be mindful of that and make sure that you're going in in a smart way. But with that said, if that's something you want to do after you do some decent amount of research, go for it.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah, the opportunity is there right now more than it has ever been. The opportunity is there. I'm seizing the day. That's it. That's you doing it. Find a project there. Nice. Nice.
00:32:20
Speaker
Like I said, you always have to be culturally sensitive. Like every time we drive through Texas, I buy a gun rack at the first store on the side. I put up a rifle and then I give it back when I get to Louisiana or New Mexico. While in New Mexico, I think you got to keep it there too. Whenever I visit my family in Idaho, I get one of those bumper stickers that says, for a small town, this village sure has a lot of idiots. And then I take it off when I get back to
00:32:44
Speaker
Nice. All right. Well, anything else at the first podcast of the year that we really want to bring up and start the year off right with, guys? Well, I think we had talked about it offline as far as timing the end of the year. What are these rushes that sometimes we see? I think we've already established that for clients, typically fieldwork and rushes of getting projects done are definitely client-generated, those requests.
00:33:09
Speaker
But the one thing is a good reminder, I tell my kids this too, it's not always the smartest person that is the most successful at a company. It's the person that causes or creates the least amount of trouble for their management.
00:33:25
Speaker
almost always is turning in your paperwork on time, doing your expenses, making sure your logs are in on time. Those are the ones that are going to get consistent work. So this is the end of the year is usually when you have this push to make sure that all your records are in for expenses and
00:33:43
Speaker
You know, if you just a word to the wise, especially for those that are starting off in this business, there's a lot to keep track of. Don't give away your money by not turning in your expenses because there is a finite amount of time to turn in those expenses. So just make sure that you're doing that. You're keeping good records that you are turning in your logs on time because that's one surefire way of not getting hired.
00:34:07
Speaker
Again, from a company is if you do the work and you're showing up and it's, you know, that's good on you to, you know, be responsible in that way, but then you don't turn into your logs that demonstrate the work that you did. It's all for naught. So just making sure that you stay on top of your records. Don't leave it until the last minute on December 30th when the company's after you turn everything in. Do it as you go.
00:34:30
Speaker
Right. Indeed. Bill, any final words of wisdom? Yeah, this year was pretty tough for me. So I would recommend that folks don't make archeology or identity, don't burn out. I mean, it's phenomenal what happens when you hit the wall. It's pretty, it's pretty disastrous, right? So
00:34:50
Speaker
Don't let this be the only thing in your life. It's good for you to work for your career. It's good for you, but definitely find something else that makes your life worthwhile and enjoyable outside of archaeology.
00:35:02
Speaker
I'll echo that too because don't make fieldwork your identity. A lot of people make fieldwork their identity like, oh, I didn't dig a hole last week. Therefore, who am I in this world? I'm nothing. That's not necessarily true. A couple of years ago, I probably worked my last project for a while, to be honest with you. The last project my company is going to do anyway. I might do some other stuff later on.
00:35:25
Speaker
I made the conscious decision not to seek any more field work for my company, only because it wasn't fitting a lifestyle that we had and wanted to have. It wasn't fitting that anymore, and it wasn't conducive to the way that we wanted to live. I started
00:35:41
Speaker
basically increasing my activity in some other areas and some other work that I was doing that's kind of outside of archeology. And now that's really paying the bills for now anyway, but that also doesn't define me. So, you know, I'll just keep doing this until it's not conducive for me to do that anymore either. And then I'll do something else. So just try not to be defined by those things, like Bill said, and we'll go from there. And I think Bill dropped off the call. So the internet has said, this is all done. Heather's still here.
00:36:09
Speaker
the internet's had it. So with that, I think we will leave you with the start of 2024. Hopefully it's a good one for you and feel free to email in with any questions. We don't have to put them on online, but we do have some people here that have had some good experience and we might be able to help you through some stuff. So hit us up in the show notes at archeology, podcast, network.com. And with that, we'll see you guys later.
00:36:31
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www.arcpodnet.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use the contact form on the website,
00:36:49
Speaker
or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at archpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions. We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere, and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks to the listeners for joining me this week. Thanks also, wow, I just totally screwed that up. 2024, off with a bang. Okay. Thanks everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to the listeners for tuning in, and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye.
00:37:19
Speaker
Goodbye. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
00:37:30
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.