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Farewell to Richie Cruz and Healthcare in CRM - Ep 294
523 Plays3 months ago
On today’s episode we bid farewell to our good friend Richie Cruz. Richie lost his battle with cancer on July 26th, 2024 in his 30s. He was a CRM Archaeologist and has been on many episodes across the APN and hosted a show called, “You Call This Archaeology” that played mostly on YouTube and Facebook Live. We remember Richie and talk about healthcare in CRM.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/294
Links
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella
Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube)
Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
ArchPodNet
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- APN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnet
- APN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnet
- Tee Public Store: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/archaeology-podcast-network?ref_id=5724
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Transcript
Introduction to CRM Archaeology Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
Farewell to Richie Cruz: Impact and Legacy
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CRM archaeology podcast, episode 294 for August 7th, 2024. I'm your host, Chris Webster. On today's show, we say goodbye to our friend Richie Cruz and talk about how CRM companies should do better to allow techs time to take care of themselves. The CRM archaeology podcast starts right now.
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to the show everyone. Joining me today is Heather in Southern California. Hi everyone. And Doug in Scotland. Hey everyone. All right, everybody. So a little bit of a sad episode today. Friend of the show and really the Archaeology Podcast Network. He's been there pretty much since the beginning. I've been a friend of mine by Richie Cruz. And I mean, a lot of you listening to this either know him or or could have worked with him because there's a lot of people strangely on the West Coast that listen to this show. I'm assuming there's East Coasters as well. but for some reason, it's a lot of West Coasters that listen to this show. Richie was primarily a West Coast archaeologist, although he did work some in the in the Midwest occasionally.
00:01:30
Speaker
and he yeah We've talked about it before. We mentioned it a couple of times. He had a GoFundMe campaign, but he came down with stage three colorectal cancer last August, I think, or September, ah give or take, and kind of looked like he was actually going to maybe pull through it after he got a little bad in the wintertime, not pull through it. I mean, this doesn't have a very high survivability rate this cancer, but he had an infection and they stopped treatments, but then his infection went away, which they didn't think was going to happen. So that was actually kind of ah a little bit of a bump. And, but then in the last couple of months, he just got worse. And then on Friday, he finally, finally succumbed to the cancer and at least his suffering is over now. I mean, the last few weeks he couldn't really eat or or drink or do anything on his own. They were feeding him of course, but he couldn't really do it. The cancer was just the tumor was too big. It was just taking over everything. So,
00:02:25
Speaker
But I just wanted to you know talk today ah about Richie and you know his contributions to the show, archaeology, just everything, and and a little bit about healthcare in this field you know and and taking care
Richie Cruz's Life and Passion for Archaeology
00:02:39
Speaker
of yourself. and we're not we're no different we're We're different than other jobs, don't get me wrong. And we'll get to this. But it is a little bit different for some people in this field and how that works. But anyway, just a little bit of background about Richie. I mean i first met him, again, it was at least 10, 12 years ago. It was around then. I was looking back through my pictures and things. there's not a lot I don't have a lot of pictures of Richie, which is really sad.
00:03:02
Speaker
Richie was a photographer. He always took pictures. In fact, when I first met him, he was you know you always have like a crew of three or four people. Somebody's like the Trimble person. Somebody is the photo person. you know this is This is all back 10 years ago. Nowadays, we kind of have devices that'll do all that stuff. So that's changing a little bit. but you know Back then, you had a photo person. You had a geotramble person. You had somebody who was really good at describing features you know and doing stuff like that. And you would just have your responsibilities. Well, Richie was always the photo guy, right? And he would go around and and take the photos. and And then we'd go around and somebody else would you know do the mapping in and and somebody else would do the descriptions. And then the crew chief was around you know doing the overall descriptions and things like that. And Richie was the photo guy. And he always loved vintage vintage camera gear. He had all these crazy old cameras. and
00:03:50
Speaker
he was described to me when i first met him by the other people that already knew him fairly well we called him like he was this mystical sort of thing you know he's probably in his he was in his mid twenty s at that time probably out of field school just by a couple of years and but he already seemed like this this old soul kind of person right i hate those sort of cliche phrases but ritchie truly was an old soul and i was you know was like how old are you richie and everybody'd be like oh richie's easily two three thousand years old like he's been on this planet for for years, for for millennia. I know, right? like like Nobody knew how old Richie was. Richie would just sit there smoking his cigars underneath his big hat and just like laughing it up, not saying a word. he just He was really quiet and he would just sit there, you know smoke kind of billowing out from under his hat and just let it roll.
00:04:40
Speaker
He was just he didn't know no word whatsoever. In fact, I wrote a post on this on the Archeo Field Text channel on Facebook, and somebody commented, or the man wrote their own post, I can't remember, kind of attributing Richie, and one of the things they mentioned, he had this like, it was this ah it was this vest that he wore, this like utility military style utility vest. Yeah, they had all these pockets and stuff, and one of them was this huge pocket in the front, and it fit perfectly a can of Pringles. And Richie would just walk around doing survey with a can of Pringles. I mean, he was otherwise relatively healthy. Like he jogged all the time. He biked all the time. You know, in his last few years, even before the cancer, he actually started cutting out things like Pringles, Pringles. I think he knew that, you know, he had to probably make some changes in his life eating Pringles the first 10 years of his career. But, uh, yeah, he would just walk around with like a can of Pringles is kind of what he was known for a little bit aside from, um aside from many other things. so that's It's pretty funny. Yeah.
00:05:38
Speaker
Oh man. I have good vices you know. so it makes i really do fourth yeah yeah i know I know. You really do. He, he's been on this show before. Uh, he's, I know he's been, I don't know even know what episodes we were almost at 300 episodes here, but I know he's been on this show. He's co-hosted the archeology show with me before him. And I did a show called you call this archeology. That was his little brain child. And it was mostly a video show that you can find that on the APN YouTube channel. You can find it on his. you call this archaeology channel. ah No, happy archaeology fun time, sorry, is what his his YouTube... Yes. Yeah, that's what his YouTube channel is called. It's the one that with the little caricature. Yes. The caricature of him. Yep. Yeah, that he created. yeah Yeah. But that was one of the cool things about him too, was he was he was so passionate about archaeology. I mean, so passionate about archaeology. He was one of the few people that would, you know, go home, he would put on an old
00:06:36
Speaker
you know, an old jazz recording on a, on an LP, you know, literally on a record or something like that from like 60 years ago that he founded a, you know, a thrift shop or something and read, you know, riches to rust or something, you know, about old mining equipment. And he would just sit there and just absorb this stuff. You know, he was constantly watching YouTube about other, you know, just not, and not for any reason to like increase his skillset. We always say that on this show, he just truly was passionate about it and just wanted to learn. yeah Yeah. Yeah. It was just, I mean, I'm sure we've all known at least somebody like that. And it is, it is sad to lose somebody like that in the field. So he seemed like, you know, I didn't know him personally. I have talked to him before, but never had the pleasure of meeting him in person. But yeah I'll say in the last few months, every time he's come up with mutual friends, and nothing but amazing things about him. Right. And yeah
00:07:34
Speaker
And it wasn't in a somber note at all. like we all i mean Everyone had this idea, yes, he was sick, but had this idea that he was going to make it. And right and and then and and they're unsolicited, but everybody just, he seemed like he had such a positive attitude and he was such a pleasant person to be around. Everybody enjoyed being around
Healthcare Challenges for Field Archaeologists
00:07:55
Speaker
him. and I think that's something that sometimes we can lose in the seriousness of of what we, you know, you know, the the struggles of the business losing that childlike love for the discipline and that, you know, zest for life and the positivity because the negativity, you know, just
00:08:17
Speaker
It just brings you down, right? It defeats you. and You allow it to defeat you. So anyway, I just that that's the one thing that really sticks in my mind. And I have been watching his journey is that his positivity. Yeah. So a beautiful personality trait. It is. And it's glad I'm glad you said that because it makes me think back. like I've worked on a lot of projects with Richie. I've probably employed him on my in my company more than anybody else besides Rachel. and you know so we've We've had him on a lot of projects. I worked with him a lot when I first met him and like but the company that we both worked for.
00:08:56
Speaker
and I don't think I've ever heard him raise his voice once. I don't know what a yelling Richie sounds like, right? I don't know what an angry Richie sounds like. Like, no, I don't think anybody does to be honest with you. Like he just lets it roll right off of him. Now that, that is ah an excellent positive trait. It's, it, it can be a I don't want to say negative, but it can be a trait that holds you back sometimes because he was, he he confided me in me a lot. And he was almost like a career field tech for a long time there and, and never understood why he couldn't be a crew chief when he was working for people that, that had more knowledge in him. And I always told him, I said, Richie, you got to stand up and say, I want to do this. Nobody's just going to look at you and say, can you be the crew chief? You have to stand up and do this. And eventually he did right. Eventually he did when he,
00:09:42
Speaker
was diagnosed. He was actually crew chiefing on on a project in Nevada. so you know and He'd been working for them for I think a while actually, maybe a year or something like that. and Before that, he was working down in California for another company and they were they had him out doing these like tree surveys and things like that you know by himself sometimes just because they could trust him to do this stuff by himself. And sometimes he was with somebody else and he was kind of leading the show, but he was getting more and more leadership responsibilities. But I told him, I was like, Richie, you've got to stand up and say, I want this. You've got to take it. And like I said, eventually he did, which I'm glad he did because he definitely had the knowledge for it, right? He just had to, yeah just had to get the confidence to get into those positions. And then of course, once he did, of course, everybody knew he belonged there, right? He had the knowledge for it and he had the ability for it. And he just, he just needed to get there. So
00:10:29
Speaker
I think this is a really good thing to bring up. Yes, you have to stand up for yourself and it's not ah an aggressive way. Sometimes all you have to do is raise your hand. You know, people don't, you know, I've explained this to to people, you know, starting off in the business, you know, if you don't raise your hand and let people know, some people will just assume that you're happy where you're at and they're not going to know. Like they may be very willing to give you that opportunity and They don't, but they don't know you want it. And then the other thing that I think another lesson here is that the reason I actually got to speak to Richie, I think, I think I actually spoke to him once with the podcast that I did a special
00:11:11
Speaker
and And where i I joined one of the podcasts. But anyway, but I actually talked to him over the phone because I had heard, and this was before I knew he had cancer or anything. I didn't know that I had had so many, like people had said so many positive things about him. I thought, Hey, you know, and I didn't know he worked in California. So when I found out, I was like, I'm going to call him up and see if he wants to work. on projects that I'm managing, right? And he wasn't available during those times. But I, you know, that's another thing is that when you establish a relation, you know, you establish a reputation for yourself, sometimes people will seek you out or you're saying, Oh, they're not just going to give it to you. If you see it's a
00:11:50
Speaker
You know, it's it's both sides, right? You have to raise your hand, but you also have to work on your brand, work on yeah your personal brand of being good to work with, of being a hard worker, of having, you know, what it takes to be to be out there in these different roles. And that takes time. It's patience. But he had that. Yeah. Well, I think that's close out the segment. I think that's why he, you know, eventually when he did stand up and say, I can do this, I want to do this, that it was like probably to the people who gave him that, that opportunity was probably like, a all right, finally, it's about time. Let's do this.
00:12:32
Speaker
Because it's not like a question. It's like, OK, great. Yeah, you should be doing this. Let's let's let's put you in the spot. right and So I think that was a good ah good move for him. And it would have been would have been fun to see you know where he goes in the future. I know just one last thing. There's so many things to say about Richie. When we were talking last summer, he was actually talking about getting, you know because Rachel and I live in an RV and stuff like that, Richie's always been into camping and things. And hes he always famously lived in a canvas teepee when we were on site. ah only Richie would live in a teepee. And this thing was amazing. But he ah he put this thing up and didn't care you know didn't care who said anything about it. It was just like he had a canvas teepee. He didn't even have a smaller teepee for his extra stuff, like his camp stove and things like that. And then he ended up outfitting his Toyota Tacoma and so he could sleep in that in a
00:13:20
Speaker
in ah in a pinch, but also had like you know other stuff in there. he i mean He really did all this stuff up, but he talked about getting a small trailer, like a ruggedized trailer so he could bring it out onto work sites and and do different things. i mean He was just always thinking about how he could you know I guess be more, be more useful, be more productive yeah and get out there and be more helpful. And you know, he's talking about buying a house and Reno, um, cause he was renting for, uh, he rented this one apartment for like a decade almost. I mean, it was a long time. He was in this one spot. We was talking about buying a house and it's just, I dunno, it's sad that none of that's going to happen now, but you know, well, let's take a break. And on the other side, I want to talk a little bit about healthcare care and taking care of yourself as field techs back in a minute.
00:14:04
Speaker
Welcome back to the Sierra Mark GLG podcast episode 294. We're talking about our friend, my friend, friend of the show, Richie Cruz. And you know one of the things I wanted to talk about today, and I'm really interested in your perspective on this Heather as well, is You know, just taking care of yourself as a field tech because the perception is, well, let me, let me step back real quick because again, Richie and I used to talk, I mean, fairly often, even with us not really living in Reno anymore, um, he, we would text back and forth quite, quite frequently slack, you know,
00:14:36
Speaker
call on the phone, I mean, almost all the time. I mean, it was, it was quite a bit. And he first told me before his diagnosis that he was having like really bad stomach pains in the field and was having a hard time eating and like keeping food down and stuff like that. And he just thought, he just thought he was going through something and just had like a really bad stomach ache, you know, and you talk to somebody else like that. Like when we go back to Charlotte and you know, we go to my, like my wife's family's houses, you know, these guys have regular nine to five style jobs for the most part. And they have regular doctors like like a lot of people in the world do. And they have an ailment or they have something and they just like, you know, you just like immediately go to the doctor, right? And you're just like, Oh, let me just get this checked out real quick. like But as field techs,
00:15:18
Speaker
you just You don't have that luxury because you may or may not have health insurance first off, right? You probably don't, unless you're under the the mandate and you've bought your own health insurance, which a lot of people are just, I don't know what they're doing. If they haven't bought their own health insurance, probably just making the penalty payments or something like that. But either way, even if you do have health insurance, even if you do have a company that is providing that, and Richie did, Richie was working, i I put this in Markia FieldTech, Richie was working for ASM. And again, I applauded ASM for continuing to employ him for as long as they possibly could, giving him remote work, like they were having to work on site records and stuff like that, stuff that Richie could do just to maintain some kind of employment, keep him busy, you know, keep him
00:15:58
Speaker
keep his mind active and, and, and keep some money coming in the door, right? Because it's, it's tough when you don't, when you, when you, you just throw bedridden basically, but he could still operate a computer or his iPad or something like that. So there was that. and Again, I also don't begrudge really ASM or or any company, really, because I'm not really sure if anybody's at fault here. It's just the industry as a whole that I'm talking about. and this this idea that i mean I'm going to say we, even though I haven't been a field tech in a really long time, I remember this feeling of thinking, well, if something's wrong with me and I'm out on a 10-day in some remote location,
00:16:32
Speaker
Like if I have some sort of medical issue, I better just ah better just work through it because either A, I'm going to lose my job because I'm temporary and they could replace me at any time. Or B, if i leave I leave, I lose two, three days of pay because I've got to drive all the way back to wherever the city is, find some kind of a doctor that's going to cost me who knows how much money, and then and then drive all the way back out assuming I can still keep working and I'm not on some kind of a you know, some kind of a restriction, right? And again, it's not really anything about the company. I'm sure if you told a company legally, I mean, some companies out there might be dicks about it, don't get me wrong, but if you told somebody at a company, I have a medical issue, I need to go to the hospital.
00:17:12
Speaker
I'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people that'll say, no, you're not going to the hospital. You're not going to get this checked out. But people fear saying that because of the overall fear of retribution, right? And the retribution is this inherent, I'm going to lose my job or I can't afford this, whether it's lost time or just the medical bills alone. and That is just that is just ridiculous. And Richie was kind of in that situation only because, you know, he took like a month of feeling that way before he finally went to the doctor. And I don't think he I don't think ASM would have ever said, well, you know, you can't go to the doctor. He just felt this overwhelming air of responsibility towards the crew. He was running the crews out there. And it's like, if I don't do this, who's going to write? And nobody told him that. Nobody gave him that. He felt that. Right. And the fact that
00:18:03
Speaker
We don't make people feel like they can say, no, you know what? You come first. Your health comes first. We'll figure this out. Don't worry about that. We just we send people out there to do these jobs, and we don't make a focus on that sort of attitude. it's It's get the miles in, get the acres in, get the sites recorded. That's what's always said as like these pep talks from field directors and PIs. And nothing is ever said about your health is super important. you know I mean, sure, they're like, they they tow the party line and say, drink water on sunscreen. But I almost never hear anyone say, in my experience, personally, you know concentrate on yourself. If something's wrong, we need to fix you, because basically, you're our bread and butter. no you know They don't say that. now what And I know your take on this, Heather, is probably wildly different having been in that position, right? So I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
00:18:57
Speaker
I'm not a good person to talk to because I have all those things that you're saying, like, you know, I have a full time salaried position. I could go and, you know, I could go and work. I could call in and and be sick and and I would still get paid, right? I still had that regular pay coming in. Now, if if you have to go and leave, then that's different, right? it's a That's very different. but And I think it is a combination. I do think that there is definitely a apprehension because people are are afraid
00:19:32
Speaker
even if the company was off, you know, just did everything right. And like you said, I really do think a majority of people, majority of companies, whether it's whether it's because they just want to cover their behind and and not get sued or they really do want to do the right thing or it really does come back down to the managers to and their attitude out in the field or or the ones that are, kindt you know, basically, you know, leading these efforts. Right. So i'll I'm just going to be honest with you. I have had, you know, spots on my face that I have not dealt with that I've been told, you know, could be an issue. And I, and my family are like, you have to go to the doctor. I have to go to the doctor. And I'm just like, I have a feeling, you know, Richie was similar and I'm sure he had these other feelings, but, and it's, yeah
00:20:21
Speaker
I think it's not as cut and dry as somebody being afraid that they're going to lose money. I think it's also this, I don't know, machismo and I'm a woman, but it's yeah that too where, you know, or sometimes, you know, my mom, my mom was the same way. She didn't go to the doctor for a long time. She didn't like to go into doctors. She didn't feel like she could. She didn't trust them in some ways. And she had some reasons why. And also she didn't want to know the truth. And there were so many different Things and I think that the conversation needs to be a little bit more like, you know, I told you off the podcast that I had my husband and I had a year a couple of years ago. It was rough. We lost three very good friends and every one of them had brain cancer. They were
00:21:09
Speaker
They were gone within a year and they had they didn't know what the symptoms were. Like they had these weird feelings, they had back issues, every one of them had back issues and it wasn't, they discounted it as not an issue. And so I think it's a combination of, yes, this not feeling secure as a field tech because you don't have that regular income coming in. There's not another option sometimes where you're either field tech or you're not. You didn't have the option like Richie did to go and do not everyone. Like if somebody were to come to me and told me I'm feeling sick. In fact, I've had this happen with multiple staff members. I find another role for them and yeah and and I'll find other work for them like ASM did. Not everybody feels that that's something that is an option for them. And sometimes some companies won't do that.
00:22:03
Speaker
They're just, let's next, you know, go on to the next. But I think it's that plus a personality issue and also this, you know, concept that, you know, fear the unknown. And sometimes I just rather not know, you know, I think it's more complex. And so what can we do about it though? I mean, like we can say all this, it's more complex. What do we do about it? I think one thing is as managers, we have to have, it can't just be this rote. Oh, we care about your wellbeing. We want you to feel well. We want you to be happy, but then you don't really feel that, you know, you have to be, in and sometimes that takes consistent
00:22:45
Speaker
attitudes out in the field. if and where you are Where you have an opportunity as a manager, whether it's a manager project manager or field crew, where you have an opportunity in that moment to recognize that somebody is not doing well and to handle it properly, that says a million times more than HR saying that we care about your health. yeah You can have that at, you can say that the company cares about it. It can all be wiped away with one incident where you don't react correctly. And then not only does that person is not being treated correctly and it's not being reacted to correctly, but everyone else on the crew feels that too. yeah And then that makes everybody kind of go into their shell and and then unfortunately not taking care of themselves when they should.
00:23:37
Speaker
And you know what? Some people are going to abuse this, right? so If you had this like open open policy of, hey, anybody that needs to go you know take care of themselves and have time off, blah, blah, blah, you don't do this. And some people are going to abuse it. And I think that's one of the reasons why you know you get crew chiefs, field directors, PIs, everybody up the chain that is just like, don't want to handle it because they're like, Oh, that one person is just going to be a jerk and, you know, take time off and and not do anything or, or be a hypochondriac, or maybe they really are a hypochondriac. I don't know, but they're going to go away for every little thing and it's going to cost us a ton of money, but you know, okay. So what, you know, that, that one person, yeah, that one person is going to ruin it for 10 other people.
00:24:18
Speaker
ah you know yeah You have to have a, but as a manager, you have to look at and say, you you can't be making a mistake to avoid a mistake. That's stupid, right? So, and doing something wrong to avoid somebody else doing something wrong, right? Or taking advantage, like you said. So, it's patience. It takes some time. You have to get to know your crew. You also can't just be shuffling through crew where you're not being loyal to people.
Leadership and Healthcare: A Call for Support
00:24:43
Speaker
Like if you have a a loyal crew or ah a crew that you are loyal to and that you hire the same people and some people say, well, wait a minute, how about giving other people a chance? No, you can as you're as your projects grow, then you hire more people as they're available.
00:25:01
Speaker
But you have, you can't just be just next, go through the next person, next person. You don't get an opportunity to get to know these people, right? You don't get an opportunity to work with them and see what their style is out in in the field and to really understand them as professionals, as people. So you don't, you can't start using them in different ways and you don't get to know them personally so you understand so that you can trust them. Trust comes with experience and you have to give people the benefit of the doubt because that's the right thing to do. And then, you know, and as a as a technician or as part of the crew, just act in an honest way. And yeah if you are sick, I mean, you know, I actually had one of one of the best jobs I had and I was working for this company for five and a half years, five years. My first day
00:25:57
Speaker
I had a flat tire and I was horrified. I had a flat tire on the way. I was leaving. I was on time. Everything. I had a flat tire. I had to call them and tell them, i I'm like, they're going to think I'm a complete flake, you know? Oh yeah. Or like you're making it up. It's like the cliche excuse. of all things. Right. And the guy, the guy I'm sure was going, what the heck? You know, because now I'm creating issues for him, right? But he took the breath and he's like, okay. All right.
00:26:31
Speaker
Okay, she has a flat tire. So she really maybe has a flat tire. And then you go on, she comes into work, and you work and you continue to work with her. Now, if the next week, it's something else, right? And the week after that, it's something else. Well, then that's different. But you have to give people a benefit of the doubt to start off with. And this is, you know, I used to schedule referees for hockey from lots of different ranks. And there's a lot of people calling out last minute. In fact, I still do it for one drink, but I used to do it for a lot of different drinks. And the one thing as frustrating as it was when somebody would call in or maybe not even show up, but they would call in. I have an injury. I've got this is pulled as well. And it's just like oh and you may in your head think, OK, this OK, come on again. But you have to give them benefit out or somebody doesn't show up. And the one thing that I had in my head all the time is when I would call and leave a voicemail and say, hey,
00:27:26
Speaker
So, and so, you know, I have you at the rink today, your partner's alone, da, da, da. Just wanted to make sure you're okay. The last thing I wanted to do is leave a nasty message. And let's say they got in a car accident, they passed away and their family's listening to that message. Right. So you always have to make people benefit of the doubt. Right. And then if you find out something different, then you deal with that, but don't assume it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. All right. Let's take one last break and then we'll wrap this up on the other side back in a minute.
00:27:58
Speaker
Welcome back to the CRM Art Podcast, Episode 294. We're talking healthcare care and other things in CRM. Doug, what are your thoughts on all of this? and You guys are describing America. right im i'm just ah i'm ah I'm playing in the back of my head like Childish Gambino's song, like, this is America. yeah you like Yeah, a lot of this is systematic. It's not just like archaeology. Sometimes we look at archaeology as a problem. Archaeology is an archaeology problem. Really, what you're describing is an American problem. America is the only rich country that doesn't have a nationalized healthcare system, a mixed economy healthcare system, as it were.
00:28:44
Speaker
And, you know, that's like your description of like, Oh, you know, then you have to take off work and you have to go, go back to your, your Bay city and then try to find a doctor and make sure they met with your insurance and you don't know what the costs are going to be. And there's copay and like, it' ridiculous yeah. yeah like What you're describing is is a shit country. um that like yeah like if you so In other countries, it wouldn't matter what doctor you'd have to go to. you know Other countries will have mixed healthcare, care so there could be private ones, which may, if you're doing private insurance, that may change some stuff. But usually, like general stuff's going to be handled by your general practitioner. you In America, you call it your family doctor.
00:29:28
Speaker
And you know, it's just a lot simpler, a lot less cruel, a lot less expensive. Yeah. You know, yeah it just works a lot better. There'd be proper labor laws where that like, if you did like, yeah. So some of the things you guys are talking about is because like employers have so much leeway, I guess you could call it. like There's not a lot of legal protection for workers in the state. so like If you're in a different country, if you needed to take off, if you're not feeling well, you get a certain amount of sick days or sick pay. Some of it will be at full pay, some of it you know it depends on the country, some will be at like you know partial pay or something like that, and then there' there'll be a limit. so like Your discussion about like oh if someone's going to abuse that, usually those limits are quite low. like yeah Your sick days that you can take,
00:30:16
Speaker
full pay or like five days a year or something like that. It's not a great amount. And you know, so that there's there's always safeguards in place, but yeah, man, and it sort of goes back to like but how we were talking about like unions, a couple of well, months ago, and it's like, you know, the laws are so stacked against unions, but like, the laws in America are so stacked against like, humans, like existing that I'm sorry, guys, but like, yeah, a lot of these things.
00:30:50
Speaker
I don't know, man. like I don't know what to say other than like you're looking at systematic change that needs to happen to affect it. Again, this is not just archaeology, temp workers. I mean, you you have so many stories about basically, I mean, God, the punitive punishment of the American justice system and basically you if you if you get enough tickets, you lose your car and then you lose your job because there's there's just no there's no backup, there's no protection, there's nothing there. and That's basically what you've described. is you know It's not just archaeologists, it's basically everywhere. You could be a construction worker and you have the same thing happen. Most construction workers are on you know sort of a self-employed or contract work as well, just like archaeologists. Obviously, there's you know
00:31:42
Speaker
I don't know, was it 10 million, 20 million? So many millions of construction workers, same thing, same conditions as archaeologists, same problems. And again, you get sick, you lose your job, and then you probably lose your insurance. If you had any, you go into medical debt. If you survive it, you have basically wiped out all of your savings. And all all all of your children's savings and all your grandchildren's savings as well. I don't know how many, was it a trillion, couple trillion in medical debt in the US? It's it's pretty insane. I'll stop there with the depression, but I would just say like, you're you're really describing like a systematic problem that
00:32:25
Speaker
So the word choice here is not going is go to be poor, but it's like self-inflicted or not necessarily self-inflicted, but inflicted by a part of the country on the rest of the country. And yeah, some of these problems could easily be solved and are easily solved. in other countries. And then that's not to say, you know, cancer can be ah exponential growth. So like, even if Richie had you know gone a week or two earlier, you might still have been in the same position. um It's hard to say, but you know, it really is. It would have been a lot less cruel to him. And if I remember correctly, was he not doing like a ah GoFundMe page as well to help with his? Yeah. Yeah. Like, but he wouldn't, his last year, it was a year, right? Roughly? Yeah. Almost a year.
00:33:12
Speaker
his last year probably would have been a lot less stressful on like not having to run a GoFundMe page, not having to worry about work, not having to worry about medical bills or you know passing on massive amounts of debt to whatever family member gets unfortunate enough stuck with it and stuff like that. So you know I'm not saying it would have saved his life, but it probably would have made that last year a lot less stressful for him. Yeah, indeed. I agree. So, yeah, and we only have a certain amount of time, but I do, I do want to, so I don't think it's easily solved. And I know this isn't just about medical gear, but you know, there are, I have friends around the world that do have socialized medicine. They're in a socialized medicine situation and they wait
00:34:00
Speaker
I mean, over a year, they wait months and months to even see a doctor and they made sometimes for treatment. It takes them a long time to get that in in Canada for i have many friends in Canada. and that is the situation. So I don't think that there's an answer, but I also want to make sure that people understand because I think a lot of times, especially people that are young that are young and they don't know. I mean, I know when I was in my twenties, I didn't know all about this stuff, right? So I want to make sure that there's not a a misunderstanding here with what your rights are. And again, please
00:34:36
Speaker
it is your responsibility to know what your rights are so yeah there are more sick days like i'll say the company i work for in the company i used to work for. There is many six days that you would get for a year even if you're not salaried that people would for the as needed they would accrue six days. So and if you really are if you're sick and you need like you have cancer or something that's really you know a very serious illness. There's nothing.
00:35:09
Speaker
ah you might as well ask what you can do. Sometimes companies will allow you to bank the six days, right? Or, you know, there's there's different strategies. The other thing is, is that, you know, I've had this firsthand. I've had people on my staff. One, she wasn't sick, but her husband was sick. And there were some, you know, some things that HR didn't want to do. And as a manager, I went in and I i advocated for her. and made sure that she was covered and she was able to leave and take care of her husband and she was gone for a few months and she did get disability and like she got it was like 80 percent of her pay that she got whatever it is in the state right and so there are things don't think that like if you're sick and that's it I mean there are you do have rights
00:35:58
Speaker
There are different strategies that you can take to make sure that you're protected. And I know that when you're sick, it's overwhelming. And I remember going through it with this team member who it was frustrating. She had to go through all this paperwork and making sure that people were doing their job correctly at the hospital, that they were filling out the forms correctly. It's a pain in the neck. But, yeah the you know, it is a pain in the neck. there's You're going to get this across across the world. It is that way. And is it right? Okay, it isn't. But there's there are forms that have to be followed in order to make sure that your rights, that you have the rights that you
00:36:38
Speaker
that you have and that you're able to communicate that in a way that, you know, allows you to take advantage of these different programs. And so know what your rights are and but know what your rights are now rather than when you're sick. Right. And then having a support network. Don't be afraid to ask for help. I mean, people want to help others that most people in this world are loving, compassionate people. And you can see that just from the GoFundMe page. And there's a, you know, GoFundMe page, that was in my understanding was to support his family because he was, you know, they had a wonderful family unit and they all counted on each other. And I think they counted on him financially too. And so, you know, the GoFundMe was wonderful. If you look at people that didn't even know him that were donating to his page. I mean, people, it's allow others to help you. People that you're actually, you're actually giving them
00:37:37
Speaker
a blessing to allow people to help you. ah you have You can't just fall back. I see that a lot now because we have so much negativity in the world now, so much that people are exploiting to try to get their way in one way or another. And i so I hear so much negativity, especially from the younger group. And I want to encourage you that that negativity will take hold in your heart, in your mind, if you don't know what your rights are. go out and find out what your rights are. You actually will find that you'll be a lot more lighthearted if you know what to do in that situation. So I think Richie was doing that. So this isn't about Richie. I'm just saying in general, don't just lay down and say this whole country sucks so or this world sucks or go and take care of yourself across the board. You know,
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I totally agree. Doug, final thoughts? Yeah. that's I'd like to sort of echo Heather's comment and also just to sort of point out that likely, especially in archeology, your managers will not know your rights. Yes. So it's actually incredibly important because yeah, I mean, think about it. Most, if you're going through archeology training, you rarely actually get trained to be, we've talked about this before in the podcast. You rarely get trained how to be a leader. You rarely get trained to be a manager. You rarely get, you know, sat down with like, the companies don't spend like a couple of days of, you know, in-house training and like, yeah, this is all the HR stuff. A few might do it if you're part of a bigger company, you might get like those little videos about like,
00:39:15
Speaker
sexual harassment or something like that, but a lot of the stuff is not going to be explained. like you're You're not going to be told about sick leave. You're not going to be told about disability. so you're not going to Even if you want to help at a managerial level, you probably aren't going to be equipped or trained or have the experience to actually do that. so It's important to to know that know your rights both from when you start, but also know your rights and know the system for when you become in charge as well. Cause you know, again, it'll differ and also different between States, you know, different States have different support, all sorts of different systems. So, you know, you're, you're actually, there's not just one system in the United States. It's 50 systems basically. Well, yeah. probably more because also it depends, you know are are you a member of a tribe as well or a federally recognized group? or you know so i don know you You probably might have a couple hundred different systems to be realistic in the States. and so you know You need to know that information both for yourself, but also you know
00:40:24
Speaker
chances are you're going to need to, when you do that advocacy, you're also going to need to be able to present it as well to your boss because ah there's a good chance that they're just not going to know. then You can be like, hey, i you know this is this is the federal law, right? I need time off. and I'm going to be making up a number here, but I would say like nine out of 10 times, they're just going to be like, oh, really? Cool. Like never heard about this because they probably haven't. So yeah, it's super important Heather's advice there on just like, know the laws, know your rights, know where you can get support. And that's, that's across a whole range of stuff.
00:41:01
Speaker
ah We've talked about it in the past on on the podcast. Chris, I'm pretty sure it's in your book, but it's things like unemployed insurance and yeah know um taking unemployment and all those sorts of things. But you know there's if you're taking disability, that's actually possibly coming out of social security. Most people think of social security is retirement, but it actually covers a lot of people with disabilities as well. yeah And you've paid into that. you've and you If you're doing a job, you're paying social security. So you're actually paying for your your disability lack of a better word, insurance. Yeah. Sorry. We we probably, probably too much to cover in the last like two minutes of this segment, but it's just to say, yeah, you need to know it because a lot of people won't know it. And they even if they want to be able to help you, they won't be able to cause they just don't have that knowledge. Yeah. And I just wanted to say one, one more thing as from managers, people on the executive level, manager, but people that are managing people.
00:41:57
Speaker
you have a response a eight personal responsibility to to advocate for those that are that you manage. You have that responsibility. And you know there were, with the one example that I was giving in, a few others, where even HR, they deal with so many different circumstances, and they should be experts on it, but they're not. And so as a manager, ask questions, advocate for your team members and make sure that they are getting the attention that they need and and that they are getting the right answers. And even if that just means allowing the staff
00:42:36
Speaker
you know, that your team member to kind of do their own due diligence. i am In my case, I've done research just to make sure that they were getting the rights that they were supposed to have. But sometimes people, you know, then even if it's just a matter of moral support that you're giving them and you're telling them you are ah yourre you have their back, that makes a world of difference. Because when somebody's going through an illness And if they don't feel like they have people who are championing for them, that it just brings their attitude down and it and it it can lead to depression. And then on top of that, you have to have the power positivity is so important when it comes to healing. You just, you need to be there, even if it's just moral support, you have a moral responsibility to do that.
Episode Closure: Condolences and Cautionary Advice
00:43:21
Speaker
And and then the last thing I wanted to say is that I just wanted to get my sincere con condolences to
00:43:26
Speaker
all of Richie's family and friends, and I'm so sorry for your loss, and yeah and you know he will not be forgotten. Indeed. Doug? Probably mine's not the best way to end this. I feel Heather's ending was pretty nice. I was just going to add the comment of, yeah, ah just be careful of HR. HR is not there to protect you. It's to protect the company. So always, this goes back to the advice of know your rights is like, definitely, definitely do it and don't don't rely on HR. i've been in I've been in conversations on the other side. Yes.
00:44:02
Speaker
I totally agree with Heather that you have a moral obligation to look after your staff. not everyone is going to feel that same moral obligation. And you know a lot of what we've sort of discussed is one-off diseases, but if you have a deer ah disability, you are seeing these same effects quite often, and attitudes towards people with disabilities are not great. So yeah, just to to reiterate, to your
00:44:33
Speaker
own Well, maybe not your own research. There are lots of organizations out there and charities that provide advice. Unions, if you're looking at ah laws and employment and stuff like that, those are that's actually something in an area where unions can give advice and are really great at. you know So there's there's a lot of other places where you can get expert advice and I would just end with, yeah, please do that. And I'm sorry, Heather said it so eloquently. I feel like if we just cut her last like 30 seconds and then just shift it to the end right here, we could end on that, which was a really nice way to end it.
00:45:11
Speaker
Well, I did have one more thing to say as well. it's ah I really am thinking back to the comment. Well, when I was talking about you know the fear that people have of just saying, hey, I've got an issue. I need to take care of myself. And if we could take away the fear, then that would be... a giant step in the right direction. right and you know Companies are the are one part of that. But if we could take ah take away the fear in another way, I just keep thinking about, and I was looking up to, we belong to an RVing club. We belong to several of them because it gives us several advantages and you know discounts and things like that. But one of them is called Escape Ease, and they have this program called Care.
00:45:50
Speaker
And it used to really refer to retired escapees, but now it's more for full-time RVers. And if you have a health issue or something that would take you off the road, they say, instead of getting rid of your RV and buying a house again or doing something like that, you go to you can go to their facility. It's actually in Texas where their headquarters is. so And you can stay there. right And there is a cost to it, but it's heavily subsidized right by sponsors and things like that and our membership fees that we pay as part of this club. but But it's basically something that just gives you somewhat of a worry-free time to where you can deal with whatever illness or something that you're dealing with and you don't have to deal with it yourself, right your spouse or or partner or whoever. If we had something similar, obviously not something like that, but something similar where you know a field tech could call up and say, you know i mean sure, there would have to be some kind of dues or heavily sponsored by companies and things like that. but
00:46:45
Speaker
you know They call up and say, hey, I got to take like three days off of work in the middle of a session, and they're not going to give me per diem. And well maybe they're going to give you pay, but they're not going to give per diem, and you're relying on that, and things like that. And it's like, great. you know Here's a check. you know no no like you know We'll Venmo you this right now. you know And you're a member. You get this right now. i mean Obviously, there'll be limits and things like that. But we need something like that where people that and that can help take away that fear. I don't know. Just something I was thinking about. I would actually say this is a good area of where unions can work because you do pay dues and they do keep sort of pools of money.
00:47:21
Speaker
for event, not just for like, if you go on strike and eat it, but for other activities like this. So sure um this this is an area where actually unions have a little bit of influence and ability. And and it'ss that's a good point place there as well. And if we can get seasonal field techs, actually a union that will accept seasonal field techs that have 18 different employers a year, then great, right? If we can do that right now, a lot of the unionization that's happening is at the is at the company level, so to speak. right they're they're like people like Companies are unionizing, but we need to be able to we need ah companies aren't the problem. i mean They are. right We have people that were full-time in companies. They're in a little bit better situation, but it's the seasonal field techs that really need the help. and you know unions are probably They're going to probably be the last ones attend you know with the union attention, to be honest with you, if it comes around ever. so
00:48:11
Speaker
Anyway, that's a whole other discussion that we could have on this podcast, which we probably have. In fact, I know we have. So, but anyway, something to think about. And with that, we will end with, you know, farewell to Richie and, you know, again, my condolences as well it' to everybody that knew him. and You know, anybody else who's going through this right now, hopefully you're not alone and you're, you know, you've got some support. Feel free to write into the show. You know, not a whole lot we can do, but feel free to write into the show. Tell your story if you want to, and we can, you know, just see if we can, we can get it out there. Maybe there can be some help. So anyway, with that, thanks everybody. And we'll see you in two weeks.
00:48:52
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www dot.arcpodnet dot.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use the contact form on the website or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at arcpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions. We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere, and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to the listeners for tuning in, and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.
00:49:40
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.