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Dress To Impress - Ep 292
509 Plays4 months ago
As archaeologists we tend to dress a certain way in the field. But for interviews, conferences, and other occasions we need to dress a bit differently. Andrew, Doug, and Heather give their advice on what to wear when you need to dress to impress.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/292
Links
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella
Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube)
Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
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Transcript
Introduction to CRM Archaeology Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
Meet the Host: Dr. Andrew Kinkella
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CRM archaeology podcast, episode 292. I'm your host for today, Dr. Andrew Kinkella. I've taken over from Chris for today. Yeah, I know. I know you guys are like, finally, finally you took over from Chris. I have slowly, slowly carved my niche in this place and now I'm the overlord.
Dressing Up for Archaeology Events
00:00:46
Speaker
I'm not. So ad joining me today is Doug. All right. Well, I'm gonna say hello, but man, Andrew, that that was an intro. That was that was something else, man. Oh, good. Good. See, I was close your head. i ah and Oh, and also also joining us today is Heather. Heather.
00:01:12
Speaker
Hey there. So if you're the Lord, what does that make me? Because I'm the one to introduce you to this. Exactly. No, see, that makes you that makes you the emperor. Like, like I'm really just your minion. OK. You know, you are the puppet master. I'll take that. You are the puppet master. And today we have decided to talk about dress in archaeology, but not in the field. Like we thought we would talk some about dressing like for conferences or if you have a business meeting or basically how to how to dress up some.
00:01:44
Speaker
Because I think we've all noticed that archaeologists tend to dress down. And I don't think that's necessarily a good move. And that is coming from me. Who is someone who classically dresses down a little bit? But I worry sometimes. I've seen this a lot in my career. of archaeologists who kind of dress down because that's how they define themselves. It's like, no, you know, I am of the field. So I dress down to show you that I am of the field. And I think that's a really bad move. I think it's time for a lot of us, you know, to just.
Professional Presentation in Archaeology
00:02:19
Speaker
like take our medicine and think about dressing up. This obviously doesn't mean, oh, I need to buy a tuxedo, you know, but it means taking simple steps to just make yourself look, look clean and presentable. it it's only good for your career. you know And i'm I'm happy to kind of drill down on this a bit and even talk about you know like specific brands or things to wear or this kind of thing. And and I figured today we can just go through it. you know We can talk about specifics in archeology conferences you know and then and then onward in the job world. Anyway, Heather, I see you got your hand up. What's up?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, I was just going to piggyback off of what you're saying. It is really important because we have to remember if we were just in a room with archaeologists all the time and that was our environment, that would be one thing, but we're not. And, you know, it's funny because our reputation as archaeologists, it really precedes us and it takes a long time. to wear that down because, you know, people in the business world, they really assume archaeologists are wacky. They're not very professional. They are hyper focused on only preservation without any reasoning to it, and that they
00:03:42
Speaker
They're just weirdos. I mean, really, that is the sense. And you know what, some of it we have actually earned and some of it we have not. It's just a misunderstanding of our discipline. But I do think that when we're in different settings, we need to be conscious of that. And you know what, if that's not something you want to do, well, then just you know, know that it might impact your success, your success. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, I've I totally agree with you again. I have seen this again and again. And also, you know, for those of us who've worked in a more, I don't know, blue collar or, you know, like kind of.
Looking Presentable in Business Settings
00:04:25
Speaker
outdoorsy place like archaeology i think we tend to forget that in a more business room setting or this kind of thing i'm telling you guys i've seen this before where people who work in the business setting all the time like if you look like crap and come in they won't even listen to you like your their ears won't even open So if you if you want to argue a point, you know, you want them to listen to you, you want them to take you seriously, you have to dress up. You you just have to. I have seen this crash and burn you guys. And then the person themselves is so clueless. They're like, why didn't they listen to my point? It's like, yeah, because you look like crap. Like you got to hook it up. Doug. Yeah, what's up? When you're looking to sort of dress up for out know either maybe a conference presentation
00:05:13
Speaker
maybe a business business presentation, maybe it's just, you know, a meeting you need need to look good for. What is your guys's sort of go-to outfits, as it were? Or or i I say outfit or outfits, as and maybe you guys have multiple ways of dressing up. Can I throw it to you first, Andrew, and then Heather? Sure, sure. I think that's a great question. That's why that's where I wanted to go as well. Like, what do we personally do? So for me, I think the the sort of fail safe is like, I have two suits that I've literally owned for like 20 years, you know, for forever, but they're they're still OK. I don't wear them that much. And so if I really have to dress up, you know, and this is this would be the stuff I'd even I'd also wear for a wedding or whatever, but it's fine. It's like these are like business suits, you know, first and foremost, one blue, one black. And
00:06:04
Speaker
I will either dress them up a little bit more or down a little bit more. Again, this is extreme. Right.
Importance of Accessories and Fit
00:06:10
Speaker
This is this is I am presenting in front of the Supreme Court. Right. Time where I where I wave her little is with ties like I hate wearing ties. I just hate them. They they make me self-conscious like they're uncomfortable for me. I just I hate having something around my neck. I will wear them though when I know I have to right like I'll be like okay I'll put a tie on this but if I can get away with it and then and that and again I'm being honest to the room not to my feelings right but to the room I can be like okay I'll wear this suit without a tie you know and that in my experience has been okay like like like tireless is all right on top of it
00:06:51
Speaker
I'll also dress it up with little things, especially for men. I think a watch to go with your overall outfit can really add, you know, and and make sure it's a dressy watch. Make sure it's not like a g-shock that you're wearing in the field. um I've seen so many people with like a suit and then they're wearing this big plastic looking g-shock. And I love g-shock watches, dead but for those dress up times. And this doesn't mean you have to buy a Rolex, right? There are there are watches in like between the $100 and $200 level that are really nice, look really good. And I think it really adds an edge just that old school like dress up and and not an Apple watch too. that's it If you really go old school, it's just a nice addition. Looks cool. Of course you're gonna wear a belt and shit you know and and good dress shoes with these. Make sure the belt and the dress shoes match. Either they're brown and brown or black and black. So that's what I do. And and of course for the dress shirt,
00:07:53
Speaker
You have a million choices. You just have to make sure that they vaguely go together. So that's that's what I would wear in a in a really high end situation. And then I'll pass it on to the rest of you guys. by have I have some other options, too, if you can kind of go mid range. ah When you said the suits, like what was what was the sort of range of suits and did you get them like tailored? I guess yeah yeah there's there's ranges of you off the rack, which is you you just get it from the store and then there's yeah off the rack where it's then tailored or there's also like the sort of bespoke range.
00:08:26
Speaker
I don't know many archaeologists who can sort of afford to go into the bespoke range, but where where were you at and in your two suits? you're're You're blue and you're black. Right, right, right. That's a perfect question. I'm so glad you asked. The black one I got from men's warehouse, which is like the classic cliche, and but it's ah for sort of, um you know, more, I guess, inexpensive suits. But that suit is fine. It does not look cheap or anything and like that. It's it's like totally fine. And it was tailored after. So these are basic both of my suits were off the rack, but like lightly tailored, if that makes sense. But the one I like much better, I actually got from Macy's. I just got it from Macy's off the rack, you know, and and that was also tailored as well. I'm sorry. I cannot give a price. It was so long ago. I can't remember. And whatever I paid, I will say it wasn't like brutal. It wasn't like two thousand dollars or something like that.
00:09:19
Speaker
You know, I want to say it was several hundred dollars, you know, that that range. It's not going to be one hundred and fifty bucks. You know, it's going to be a ah lot more than that. But that also brings up is tailoring, like in general, no matter what you wear, make sure it fits. That matters so much more almost than the actual thing. Like you have if you have a slightly cheaper shirt. But it's tailored. It'll look so much better than an expensive shirt or that's fitted rather that fits. It looks so much better than an expensive shirt that doesn't fit very very well. I see so many people messing this up, you know, like like really be honest about
Cost-effective Professional Dressing
00:09:55
Speaker
about fitting, you know, just get the fittings done by the store, because I know men's warehouse does that where basically you can get it and then they'll also sort of tailor it as it were. Or did you like take it to professional tailors or
00:10:10
Speaker
You know, where did you get this done? Right. No, I did it right at the place. You know, both times I did it right at Macy's and I did it right at men's warehouse. And I do have to say between the two Macy's was way better. And I would think today any of those big stories, be it Macy's, be it Nordstrom, right. That kind of level of of of suits and stuff. That's that place I would go. I would spend some money, right. to Like I have. You know, you get a suit and it'll last you a long, ah you know, a long time. Keep it good. Get it dry cleaned every so often. Like it'll it last a long time. Actually with that, we've kind of burned through segment one. I know that Heather has a lot to say to add to this. So let's do that at segment two. So we'll be back around momentarily.
00:10:55
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the CRM archaeology podcast episode 292. And we have been talking about dressing up for important business occasions, conferences, this kind of stuff. And I just previously talked a little bit about wearing a suit and, you know, where I got my suit and the importance of having stuff that fits. That's that's huge. but Anyway, Heather, I know you had some stuff to add to this. What what do you got? Yeah, so, you know, I don't wear suits, but this is specifically for mainly males. I guess, you know, some girls may want to wear a suit. But so as far as suits go, I just don't want people to be scared. There's a lot of people that may not make enough money, even to buy just in low end suit.
00:11:38
Speaker
So here's a few suggestions. First, you can start off by having a pair of jeans and dressing it up with a nice jacket sports jacket. That's one option. There's nothing wrong with it. There are certain environments where that may not be enough. And it definitely depends on what part of the country you live in. So if you're on the East Coast, it's a little bit more formal than on the West Coast, the West Coast. ah Even dressing up, you'd be good with wearing a nice sport coat, a nice button down shirt, and some jeans. The key thing here is you got to look put together. So it doesn't have to be an expensive sport coat. In fact, I have found some really great stuff thrifting.
00:12:24
Speaker
you sometimes can find really high end suits thrifting and it doesn't matter if the suit doesn't fit you and if you haven't bought it new don't think that you can't go take it to a tailor you can't you take it to your dry cleaner and most dry cleaners have tailors there on site now if they don't they'll tell you where to go and tailoring is the key to looking sharp. So you can have something that look doesn't look, you know, it actually could be a really high end suit, but if it doesn't fit you well, it you look dumpy. So you can, or you could have a suit that isn't really high end, but because it's fit to you really nicely and tailored to you, you look really sharp. So the key is
00:13:11
Speaker
You don't have to spend a lot. You just get creative and you go in and then what you can do is you can go online and say, okay, what, what's the look right now? And you don't want it too trendy, but suits generally aren't too trendy unless you're wearing, you know, the pants that are like. anklets, which don't yeah, super narrow. please don't I would also I would bust in and and just totally agree with you. If you're getting a suit like, you know, if you're really spending some money long term, do not get something totally fashion trendy like those completely like narrow pants.
00:13:45
Speaker
don't do the anklets that come and show your ankle it looks so stupid right so you do that but in a business setting you want to be conservative you conservative and serious yeah and and that's where a suit will last you for a really long time so money wise it's smart Yeah, but I can't say enough about tailoring really. And so I worked my way through graduate school teaching sewing and upholstery. And so I do tailor and tailor my sons in the army uniform and tailor some of his friends. And there's nothing better than a nicely tailored suit.
00:14:25
Speaker
And it won't, it won't be much. It's definitely something that you, you know, that you should do. And so pieces though, just nice jeans. And the the other thing is,
00:14:39
Speaker
You know, you can go to places like Costco. Costco can have some really nice, you know, khakis on sale. You can wear khakis, even if it's on change, you can dress it up and work. And just, it doesn't have to be a matching suit. And that matching suit is nice. But I'm just saying, I don't want to kind of, you know, scare people off. um But the key is also, please.
00:15:03
Speaker
We shouldn't have to say this, but t I can't tell you how many people I see at conferences. They look like they have not taken a shower. Yes. Or more. Oh my God. Their hair is greasy. It's long. It's not kept. You could actually be dressed down and still look sharp if you have a good haircut and you and you look like you care about what you look like. Yes. It's huge. And that's where people pull that like, I'm an archaeologist. I'm from the field. It's like, well, you look like crap, right? There's no way around that. Just suck it up, grow up and do what you need to do. you know and And you know what? Maybe I could see where people have been in the field and they've been in this environment for so long that they actually don't realize what they look like. So maybe find a friend who's
00:15:51
Speaker
willing to be honest with you. I'm brutally honest with you and say, Hey, what do you think? Like how, how do I look if I was going into a business setting is do I look appropriate? Right. And I would just say, take it seriously. You know, it's okay. It's okay if day to day you look like a slob. It's all right. You know, no big deal. But for these moments, like take it seriously and be like, all right, I'm really going to kind of push forward and do this. Doug, what's up? Yeah. So I have like two little, I guess hints or, you know, advice things. yeah And one is, Uh, thrifting, go to a thrift store in the nice part of town. So like, like, if I go thrifting, I actually, there's, there's a, so one, uh, university of Edinburgh is pretty, pretty toffee, uh, tops, uh, sort of rich kids. So if you're going to a thrift shop around the university of Edinburgh, you get really nice clothes. Uh, cause you know, the students don't take it with them. They just throw it into a you know thrift store.
00:16:49
Speaker
ah go yeah Basically, aim for sort the richer neighborhoods because essentially most thrift stores, you know it's it's the donations they receive. and so you know If they're in ah ah in the rich neighborhood, you're you're going to get like you know a Chanel dress or something like that just dropped off because you know they they couldn't care less. But you know it's that's that sort of advice. and Then in terms of sort of the the general look and put together, with a haircut, I'd actually recommend getting a haircut a couple of days before. I mean, it'll it'll somewhat depend on yeah of your hairstyle. But if you wear your hair short, say you you kind of want that that look of you look good, but you're not trying too hard. It's so true. I agree with you 110%.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That, that basically plan a couple of days, if you can, you know, sometimes you're you're out in the field, there's no time, you know, a nice haircut is better than no haircut. But if you can like, you know, put maybe a week between like this conference or this meeting for a haircut or, you know, maybe three to four days, probably better. If you have short hair, that's good. Um, if you have long hair, generally it's not as noticeable that you've, you had just had a. a new haircut and actually it probably works better um if it's right before if you have long hair. But yeah, I would say you're if you're and short, would be you know you're using like the the buzz clippers and stuff like that for your hair. and That's why I define a short and then or a couple of inches on your hair for long, you could probably get away with a brand new haircut if you want because it just doesn't show up quite like you know if you've just got that
00:18:37
Speaker
you know, buzz cut or wherever whatever sort of cut you got, it won't quite show up. Or it really does show up, you know, quite a bit like you just got a haircut if you have your hair short. yeah And that's that's just sort of my recommendations that I would throw in there. And then actually, if you guys are okay, I was just asking Heather, how do you, you know, how do you dress up for conferences or presentations and So I was going to add one
Fashion Advice and Versatile Attire for Women
00:19:03
Speaker
more thing. My son is actually quite a fan. He's like is like one really good um example. He does just to, you know, stay abreast of what's popular. He says that um there's some great YouTube. Yes.
00:19:16
Speaker
their YouTube channels that specifically deal with fashion and young fashion but this is fashion and one is called these is Parker York Smith we'll put the link in the but he will put the link in the show notes but he's a really good el my son goes to when he's looking to make sure he's kind of he's business but he's still up to date And he also has budget options. He focuses specifically on different tier levels and making sure that you can look real sharp for a a decent amount of money or but low amount of money. So what do I wear? I do have a
00:19:55
Speaker
a decent you know wardrobe of for professional settings. Because for me, I am working in a professional setting a lot. And so my go-to is comfort um something that's comfortable, but is sharp looking. So for for women, you can go. i like It's ah maybe easier for us, although there's a lot of choices. So that's harder sometimes. But if the window or is this. The continuum is is much larger, of the range of what we can wear and still look professional. So my go-tos are always having a nice pair of black pants and having it made out of material that's not going to be wrinkly, um having it tailored to me so that I look sharp and I look put together.
00:20:47
Speaker
You can't not iron. Like if you don't want to iron, then you got to buy clothing that doesn't need ironing. You don't want to look all crumpled. And when you're traveling, you're going to conferences, you're traveling. So I wear black, a lot of black pants. And then I have so that I sometimes I don't want to pay for a luggage or something. You know, another way of thrifting, being thrifty is I will have one pair of pants that goes with a lot of different tops and then I do have coats over coats so I'll do a nice shell a shell for guys that don't know or maybe even girls it's like an under it's an undershirt that
00:21:31
Speaker
You can put everything over it, so it's usually a neutral color, and then you put something over it. and i you know I just dress basically to the climate, and I don't go crazy. I don't think that ah a pantsuit is necessary. I think it's fine to show your own personality. um But I do think that you need to keep it professional. So let's say you want to show your personality. I don't think going to a conference and wearing Star Wars stuff is really, it's not professional. That might be part of my personality. But let's say I have more of a steampunk kind of look, let's say. i'm not That's not what I do. But if you like to wear steampunk or more, there are ways that you can do that without looking too
00:22:21
Speaker
I don't know, just too beard. So yeah, I would definitely say professional. professional Right. that That that idea of angling towards the conservative, it's only good. We've all had that moment in our head where it's like, should I wear this? The answer is no. Don't do it. Yeah, exactly. Stay away from anything that to me, stay away from anything that is has like labels on it or has movie
Conservative Dressing and Material Choices
00:22:50
Speaker
references. my and I mean, anything that we totally don't. That's a no go from the very beginning. Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah. and And don't think like, oh, i' I'm I'm putting a wet blanket over my personality. It's like, no, you're not right. You are being professional and mature and you are dressing for that. Very important. There's nothing wrong with being professional. and holding some parts of your personality back there's nothing like once you get to know somebody then you can you know be a little bit more you know open with who you are but don't put it all out there and on let's just be honest a lot of times people put that there because they feel like they don't have a personality yes just put this caricature up yeah
00:23:40
Speaker
and and then that fits for the personality and you know what that does it shows that you are not that you're insecure yeah and you don't in a business setting you don't want to look insecure no
00:23:56
Speaker
I actually have a hand grenade. I'm just going to toss into that conversation about professionalism. But before that, before before we get controversial, um I actually, it was it was a question for Heather, because you had mentioned sort of non-wrinkly materials and stuff. And could you, see I don't know if you know enough, um and could you tell us if it some of those like materials? And then probably, so I think about this, because, you know, I worked in a in a desert and then I also work in a country that has no AC. So for about five days of the of the year, which always happens to be around time of a conference, you know it actually gets hot and humid. but And so you do need sort of clothes that will breathe. So Heather, do give us a bit more details on sort of like clothes that don't wrinkle and then some of the ones maybe you could suggest some materials, right? Not clothes, but materials is what I mean.
00:24:49
Speaker
So I would say Rayon is a really good, so anything that says Rayon on it.
00:24:57
Speaker
polyester for the most part cotton is one thing you want to stay away from because cotton wrinkles wrinkles yeah I love it though I love it yeah and I know cotton is nice just if you're going to do cotton or maybe linen a little bit more expensive but linen doesn't it it does not wrinkle as much and then the other thing is if you're If you really only want away and you don't want to wear the synthetic, then that's fine. Or you can do a combination. If youre if you really are focused on that, then be willing to to iron or steam. Steamers, there's lots of good travel steamers. Steamers are awesome.
00:25:37
Speaker
My son, he actually irons everything. He's kind of funny. He doesn't iron my stuff. He irons everything. But he steams it, actually. He doesn't iron it. And steaming really works, but you have to have a good steamer. A good travel steamer is going to take up a whole lot of weight. So you you can't count on the iron. Although, in a pinch, um most irons have steam on them. And most hotels have steamers in or have irons in them. You can use that. But don't go out wrinkled. But I would say, anything but synthetic in it. Rayon is a really good one. Another, like I like the Rayon chiffon for women over shawls. Those are great ways to dress up your outfit and it just takes black pants, a black shell, black take top or whatever, and then a nice kind of a shawl type thing that goes down and it also hides a lot of, you know, thick areas of your body that you're not feel comfortable in and but you still look professional and those you can literally crumple up stick them in your head and they'd never wrinkle so those are great and then another option is for women sorry guys but for women is
00:26:49
Speaker
um there are types of fabric that are already kind of scrunch they have a texture to them and if you buy those kinds then you are hiding the wrinkles as you're almost impossible to see wrinkles and those you can take out of a garment bag and not have to do anything in order to move forward. As far as being able to wear things that are in a hot humid climate, men wear an undershirt under your your button up.
Maintaining Hygiene and Comfort
00:27:22
Speaker
I know it seems like there's more layers and you're going to be hotter but it's not true. It also allows you to not have to worry about washing. Let's say if you only have a certain amount of clothing put an undershirt under your button up and then you can wear it more often because the sweat and You know, your body orders stick to the undershirt. And it also wicks that sweat away from the away from the over shirt. And you actually are. You do feel older. Yes. OK, yeah, no, that's that's that's ah that's a good one. I can argue that a little bit, but we'll talk about that in the next segment coming up momentarily. We will see you guys then.
00:28:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the CRM archaeology podcast episode 292 and we have been talking about dressing up. And so as I've sat here listening patiently to my fellow podcasters, I had a couple ideas that just like dovetail with some of these points. If you have longer hair, I used to have long hair. And I remember in, I would take theater classes and I'd have my long hair up there. I'd be doing my scene and my hair would be like all over the place. And I remember the director shouting control your hair. And I always think about that in business settings or this kind of thing, whether your hair is long or short, make sure it's controlled.
00:28:45
Speaker
And by controlled, I mean that you don't have to constantly take your hand and push it back somehow. So just control your hair. I know that Heather brought up the undershirt thing. The undershirt thing is a slippery slope of doom and gloom, my friends. It can work either way. Her points are well taken. I agree with you, Heather, but it's also. You can also not use an undershirt. It depends. But speaking of like smelling bad because of that, remember that to use a deodorant and an antiperspirant, right? They're two different things. Some sticks have both in them. Some are only deodorants. You have to make sure you know what you're doing right with those. Some of us are allergic, myself included, to the aluminum ones. So you may want to get and those are the antiperspirant ones, you may want to use that sparingly. But you can figure all that out as long as you're planning to like do well that day, right? You're like, Hey, I'm I'm gonna smell okay. And I'm gonna and I'm gonna look good. The whole idea of
00:29:44
Speaker
Obviously ironing is good too i would definitely invest in some sort of garment bag heather brought that up in the previous and those are sometimes they just come for free if again if you're going to the dry cleaners or something or they can be relatively very inexpensive but it's nice to have a garment bag just to carry your stuff keep it kinda flat. In terms of on YouTube, there's a couple of sites that I listen to every so often for us older gents. There's a guy who has a YouTube channel called 40 and over fashion. I think he's really good. He's he's he talks about this exact kind of stuff. There's also one called Alpha M, which is very popular. That one's for a bit, maybe younger person like and by younger, I mean somebody in their 30s, but Alpha M goes over all this stuff. I really do like 40 and over fashion for the older guys like like he's really good.
00:30:31
Speaker
Again, men, I really love that we went a bit more budget here. I started with the suits because I knew that was high end. Honestly, I wear a suit like maybe four times a year, right? It's not, this is not something that happens a lot. If you're going to go jeans, make sure the jeans are dark. Don't use light jeans. Make sure they have no holes in them, right? Like make sure they're not some sort of funky acid wash. Also khakis work great, although they do tend to wrinkle. And then as was brought up before, you know, like a budget sport coat or something, that's more than enough. One of my pet peeves is actually the bolo tie. I hate them.
00:31:09
Speaker
But I find so many archaeologists like wear them because they're like, we're southwestern archaeologists. We wear bolo ties. Have you seen my turquoise? I just think they look really terrible. But that is ah personal. I think it's better to wear nothing. Oh, and again, to to reiterate, guys out there, I would definitely get.
Cohesive Look with Matching Accessories
00:31:28
Speaker
one brown leather belt with some brown leather shoes, again, that look good. Black leather belt with some black leather shoes. Right. And then you can mix and match all over the place. Definitely tend to angle towards dark colors. They just look better. Right. So those are some things that I have just kind of learned. And I am not here to say I'm a style maven whatsoever. But these are these are good things to think about. And I say one thing about the bolutai. So my grandfather wore bolutai, so I have a sweet spot in my heart for bolutai. But the one thing about a bolutai is usually a bolutai. Who usually wears a bolutai? A lot of times, and sorry for those that do that aren't like this, but I would say a lot of times when you see a bolutai and somebody who's wearing it with a shirt that doesn't fit them.
00:32:21
Speaker
or a weird shirt that would not go well with a bolo tie. They don't have clean hair but or their hair is really long. It's unkempt. So here's the thing. Are you going to wear something that's a little kind of different? There's nothing wrong with that, but make sure and just make sure you look like you care what you look like that's it just look taken care of so you can pull a bolo tie off as long as everything else is put together and you look clean and you look sharp you can pull those little things off but you have to you really do have to look like you care what you look like
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, I can't, you know, I can't agree with you more. And maybe part of my disdain for the bolo tie is just because that's how I've seen it, Heather. You know what I mean? Like, I've seen it so many times. It's like a bolo tie on yeah with a mismatching shirt. You haven't shaved in five days. You definitely need a shower. But you're trying to make this like impression like I'm a dirt archeologist. It's like this is not I get it. We all are. OK, we all are. But some of us will take a shower of the bolo tie. If you're going to wear it, I wear it well. Although I just like that is, of course, completely subjective. But I totally agree with that. It it can to me, I apologize, a slippery slope of doom and gloom, but but you can but it can it can work. You can do it right. If if you do the things, you know, the the things that you were just saying, if you do it like that, it's like, yeah, that'll work. um Doug, I know you've been waiting patiently and I want to hear you know what you do. Heather and I brought up what you know what we do. What's your deal, Doug?
Struggles and Acceptance of Formal Attire
00:34:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I have sort of, I have a three sort of range of things I do. One is sort of the suit, but without the jacket. So, you know, it's waistcoat, nice slacks. I do do the tie. Again, this is personal and this is for everyone who's listening. like you know There's personal taste, some people like some things, some people won't. i And this might be a very UK thing, but it's ah a very big thing where you get like a lot of businessmen who will be full suit, everything but the tie and the collar is unbuttoned.
00:34:36
Speaker
And usually, it's a certain type of person who also happens to be pretty red in the face from being drunk um and obnoxious. And it's just like, there's a certain style that, for personally for me, i i I don't like the tie. i yeah I'm with you, Andrew. it It does feel like a noose around your neck. um It's uncomfortable. but I actually why it's a way of distinguishing myself from sort of ah a certain dress of people and then also i do think does look better fully done up tie i'll bring up i just want bust in for ten seconds and say i totally agree with you ah totally agree with you i' have nothing against i think that with a tie looks better, period. But I have to have this internal battle with myself because sometimes for me, it's ultimately worth not wearing it if I have to give like a presentation or something because I'll be too self-conscious with the tie on, right? That's the one time where I'm like, I will not wear a tie because it'll ruin, it'll hurt my presentation. But God, I get your like caricature of what you just did. I'm like, oh my God, Doug's so right. I've seen that. Anyway, continue.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah. So my second one is a very painful one that I've come through. It has to go back from my background and stuff like that. But like, so if, if I'm not going, it's dressed up, I'll go a nice pair of chinos and then a nice polo. Yes. I'm so glad you said it. But yeah, like for me, it has like connotations of going back to high school and a certain ah level of, uh, I'll just store it out there, douche bag. who, but like, you know, it's different styles. yes Unfortunately, it actually looks quite good. And, but like, you know, growing up and like, there was a certain type of kid who who wore that, that outfit. And there were a certain type of asshole usually.
00:36:27
Speaker
i You know, it's so funny. It's like it's like I share your brain on this. I know exactly what you mean. Exactly. But I have come through the other side. I think like you have an Apollo and Chinos or even Apollo and dark genes really work well. But Apollo is also a slippery slope. I've seen so many ill fitting polos. You have to have a polo that fits. Definitely. And and actually, ah a good fitting polo is one that could do one button. yeah One button that's undone, but it doesn't look like you've sort of like flung open your collar. um as Yeah, yeah it has to be it has to be a good fit.
00:37:01
Speaker
um it hurts It hurts my soul so much, but it actually works. If I'm talking to anyone who's listening who's like, it's just not me, I totally get your understanding. I'm a jeans and t-shirt sort of person through and through. Me too, to the to the core. Yeah, and it's taken me years, and I'd like to take credit for it, but it's mainly my wife who's pushed me to actually look nice. And it's it's that sort of that sort of setup. And ah yeah, if anyone's here who's like, no, I want to wear my my my rocker t-shirt, my Metallica, whatever, Iron Maiden shirt, that's me. i you know I understand how awkward it could feel or how much
00:37:45
Speaker
um Yeah, that mental barrier of like, you knew people who dressed like this, you hated them all. Now you're dressing like this. I get that. yeah it still It still plays. um It still happens. and I don't have any advice to help you get through it other than you actually will look nice once you get over that mental block. I think I think i have advice for that because I'm just with you. God, it's like it's just the same. It's it's just double down on the polo and buy like a few of them, try them on, you know, and and return. it's It's if you get a good fitting one, like a nice dark navy boot blue polo that is well fitting.
00:38:27
Speaker
You can get away from that cliche. You'll be like, oh, yeah, this does. I got to admit, this does look nice, right? I was so anti polo forever. And now I'm I'm I'm pro polo, but it's got to be the right one. You know, um yeah, Heather, what's up? Yeah, I was a couple things I wanted to say about the undershirt. If you're going to buy an undershirt, get a dry wick undershirt. That's what I'm talking about. You can wick that you know sweat. Some people are sweatier than others. Another really good trick is
00:38:59
Speaker
Some people, you're you're just a smellier person, either because of what you eat or you're just genetically like
Managing Body Odor and Emergencies
00:39:06
Speaker
that. So save yourself. but I'm telling you, the undershirt, the dry wick undershirt will help. Save your clothes. You can get new undershirts. They're cheaper than the nice shirts. And then also wash your clothes with white vinegar in. um That will usually be really good at taking that body smell out if you tend to be a smellier person. It neutralizes the smell. It actually kills the bacteria that's creating that smell. So that's another ah do not try not to bleach your bleach doesn't really do much. It really doesn't. And it can wet your clothes. um If you are going to use bleach, use a color safe bleach on your whites or or either because your whites can turn yellow with bleach. um Bleach has a ah weird can ah ah rear weird reaction to certain kinds of um
00:39:55
Speaker
fabrics and then um one more thing is in either setting if you are in the office make sure that you always have like you're in the office and you're wearing jeans the one good pro trick is to have some kind of sport coat um it's sitting in your closet anyway doing nothing so keep it at your office so that you're always ready for a business setting meeting if you need one at a certain point in your career If you have that, that will literally make, it makes such a huge difference and it shows that you're always prepared and vice versa. Make sure that if you're in a business setting that you always have some good work clothes in the back of your car. I always have a set of boots and work clothes in my office in case I have to go to the field and I'm dressed more business wise. So just making sure that you have a set of one or the other to to make sure you're always prepared.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, such an awesome life hack. I do some of that stuff, too. Like I have my emergency, you know, little get up or whatever. I would say one more thing that just kind of came to me. If you're, you know, ah out there and you're you're like, dude, all I wear is my Metallica t-shirt and my torn jeans. I would say a first step to kind of crawl out of the muck and into the into the light is first of course like the dark jeans with no holes in them but also a shirt that is slightly better you know than a t-shirt
00:41:23
Speaker
would be like a Henley and ah you know if you don't know what a Henley is it's just it's a t-shirt but it it has no collar but it has some buttons in the front that'll at least push you a little they both come short sleeve and long sleeve and a well-fitting Henley can be okay that that is that's not something you're gonna wear to the business meeting you know but in terms of if you just want to start like Hey, dressing a little better. Yeah, Hanley's can be very inexpensive. It's basically like a polo with no collar. And and they can they can kind of they can dress up a little more than the Metallica t-shirt.
00:41:58
Speaker
Well, I actually have, I'm going to do two two little sort of like comments on there yeah as well. And then I'll jump into my third outfit. One is probably, this is aimed more at guys, but like, yeah, if you sweat a lot and you're worried about body odor, shave your armpits. but Unless you're, I know that's going to be like a huge controversial thing. And unless you're a swimmer or something like that, or did swimming with swimmers won't care because they already do that. But like. Yeah, I know that's there's all that competition about only women do that or whatnot, but really, it will help a lot. are you You know, trim them up, you don't need to do the full shave, whatever. But if you're worried about body odor, that is something that will definitely, most definitely help.
00:42:44
Speaker
And not having body odor will also help with your confidence as well. So there was one thing. And the other thing I was going to say is just about like when you are sort of, uh, you know, Andrew's talked about this wearing darker colors. So actually there's two comments on that. One is I tend to avoid a white, a white dress shirt. Yes. For, for two reasons. Uh, one is if you You know, if you're going to be in it for a couple of hours or even a full day, even just slowly rubbing up against like your neck or something like that. If you're, if you're wearing it proper, you're going to start to get sort of like basically a little bit of grease or dirt stains along there. And they just.
00:43:25
Speaker
they don't don't last long if you're going to have to be in like that shirt all day. And the other problem you can sometimes run into is if you if you're dressing up, sometimes you can dress up, and especially if you have a white shirt, you can dress up to look like a waiter. ah yes yeah You end up with that sort of waiter dress up. It's odd, but it happens. I totally agree with you. If you need a light color, go with like a baby blue. Yeah. And, uh, cause white and black is usually waiter colors and it does look, it can look really nice, but you can also and end up with that comical movie so slash TV moment, um, where someone hands you a plate.
00:44:03
Speaker
um And um I'm not saying that that's happened to me, but it has happened to me. And yeah, it's it's that sort of mistake you learned. So yeah, definitely be careful on that sort of how you're dressing up to avoid that. And now I'm going to jump into sort of my third outfit, which is just throwing a hand grenade into everything.
Incorporating Ethnic Attire
00:44:26
Speaker
So my third dress up outfit, because I'm in Scotland, is a kilt. Yeah, yeah, but you know, on certain occasions, it's actually needed. I have to say there's, for people who aren't into kilts and the wearing, there's a couple of different sort of ways of doing it. There's like the Prince Charlie, I find that too costumey looking. I tend to go with Argyle cut, which is very much closer to just a normal sort of jacket. You can also
00:44:57
Speaker
It's not my style, but some people can do sort of the tweed jacket. It's just it's not not what I do, but I'd recommend a pretty good sort of Argyle jacket. If if you're doing you're looking to go for a kilt, but it is also- I'm not looking to go for a kilt. I'm just i'm just telling you. But it is something else I think we should sort of discuss. is like yeah They're sort of dressing up, but also dressing up in different ethnic groups. I know you talked about the bow tie, but there is like ah what I would call, and where I grew up was like cowboy chic. so actually like It will be you know ah blue jeans, but you know nice pair of of cowboy boots.
00:45:37
Speaker
They have the cowboy hat and they have the they have a nice shirt. Of course, you know maybe a very large belt buckle that is ah huge, but it actually fits for that outfit. like If you're going to do that, you could do that sort of cowboy look. um I know some people who do it and that's their look and they look actually really, really they well put together. You know, any of those any any I know what you mean. and And any any of those can work. But but I would I would tend to say the best ones angle a little conservative. You know, they're still doing the thing. But, you know, it's not it's not a caricature of itself. You know, it's it's it's sort of smooth. But then it can look right.
00:46:18
Speaker
I would have to say this can be a bit controversial because some people, especially like if you're an ethnic minority, can it can be looked down upon as being unprofessional. I think that's a horrible, horrible thing, but you know there's there's a lot of different sort of Ethnical dress is outside of sort of your typical American, Western Europe, you know, suit and tie. And there's other ways of dressing up. And I would say, you know, allow that. Oh, yeah. I think in the I think in a more modern era and by modern era, I mean, even mean like last 20 years or so. I think that kind of thing has has.
00:46:55
Speaker
People are much more relaxed about that because because it still looks, no no matter the the style of clothing, it still looks put together. It's not a jeans and a Metallica t-shirt, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's... for, ah hopefully none of our listeners are are thinking about, you know, have that sort of discriminatory, but you know, if you see that and people are like, it's unprofessional, actually encourage that. It's, you know, it's looking put together however you want to be put together. And you know, we've talked about, you know, you can still do jeans and a nice shirt can pull off being put together and it it can it can work. I would just sort of throw that out there. It's actually, um if there's one thing I could sort of push back against is like that sort of ethnic
00:47:40
Speaker
hatred against, you know, something that looks different. That's not necessarily a three piece suit. And I don't think we need that. We've discussed a lot of different things. Although I would repush back and just say, I haven't seen any. I mean, here's my repush back. I haven't seen any kind of, you know, like hatred or something for that. I've seen that be very successful for a very long time. So I do think we're like kind of over that hump, you know, and and to to the point where it's where it's actually kind of like cool. People are like, oh, yeah, that's awesome again, because it's because it took effort, because it took time, because it's put together, you know?
00:48:13
Speaker
Yeah, though there is, having said that, there is there is a look with the kilt that I find is a bit unprofessional, which is basically like, it's the kilt with like the pirate shirt. I don't know how else to describe it. It's like this loose, it's like this loose shirt that like, it's just, yeah, it's blousy. It's this loose shirt. That's it. Um, I just look at him like, man, Ahhh.
00:48:45
Speaker
we We're not, you know, it's not 1720. We're not out there to rob the locals of, you know. yeah You mean pillage. We're not out to pillage. Yeah. that That's, that's one where I'm like a little iffy on, but generally a range of other looks. And then I'll just end also with like, if you really do want to sort of get your personality out there, there are ways of including that in outfits.
Adding Personality to Outfits
00:49:13
Speaker
You can do. interesting ties, if you're you're a guy. And you could do more interesting ah prints, if say, you know, i like, maybe if you have a shawl, if you're a lady, or vice versa, you know, I'm not going to say that guys can't wear shawls. um I'm not gonna put any of the limits on people like that. But there are ways of doing that. There's like pins as well.
00:49:36
Speaker
Um, I think there still is a level of professionalism. You know, you don't want your pin with a expletive on it. Um, maybe be a bit much, but you know, you could, there's all sorts of pins people wear on their jackets, you know, little American flags. If you're, if you're into that or. Right. You know, that sort of thing, but there are other ways of, if you do want to add a bit of personality to your outfit, there's ways to do that. A funky pie. It can also be a good, um, good conversational starter as well. Totally.
Closing Remarks and Goodbyes
00:50:10
Speaker
Totally. You know, with that with that, we we've got to end it. The various ah persons here have got have got to move on. Have I got to move on with their lives? Moving on from this, which I I don't know where you can go beyond this. This is really the pinnacle. Anyway, um we ah I thought that was a great discussion. We will leave our audience by just saying bye. I think I don't think Heather can actually even talk to us anymore. She's lost in the wilds, which is completely fine. So I will say bye for her. Oh, hey! That's awesome. Okay, bye. Yeah, Doug saying bye and and me, your host for the day, Andrew Kinkela, is saying bye and we will see you guys next time. Thanks for listening.
00:51:01
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www.arcpodnet.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use use the contact form on the website or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at arcpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions. We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere, and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks to everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to the listeners for tuning in, and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye.
00:52:07
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.