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Pain Meds/Drugs in the Field - Ep 285
625 Plays8 months ago
We love getting show suggestions and questions from fans. We had one asking about drugs and pain meds being used in the field to manage fatique and pain. What do you do if you see it happening? How do you talk to someone that is taking drugs? We discuss these topics on this episode. Leave your own comments at www.archpodnet.com.
Transcripts
For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/285
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella
Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube)
Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 285
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CRM archaeology podcast episode 285 for April 3rd, 2024. I'm your host, Chris Webster. On today's show, we have a fan suggestion to talk about drug use in the field to deal with pain and fatigue. So head over to arcpodnet.com and leave your questions because the CRM archaeology podcast starts right now.
Meet the Panelists
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome to the show everyone. Joining me today is Heather in California. Hi everyone. Andrew in California. Hey guys, how's it going? And Doug in Scotland.
Listener Inquiries and Topic Suggestions
00:01:01
Speaker
And I am in Nevada this time around and I've had to miss a couple of episodes because of travel but and I'm still traveling but we just happen to be able to make the show now because now that I'm in the Pacific time zone it's at 8 30 in the morning again and not you know 11 30 when we're in the middle of a travel day usually so anyway let's talk about some things here so
00:01:22
Speaker
we always say, send in your questions and comments. And some of you do. And when you do, we try to see if we could fit it into a show. If it's something that you're requesting we talk about or you spark some sort of conversation or something like that. Sometimes we just, we just can't fit stuff in. So, but keep sending things in and we may fit it in at some point eventually. So we do write all these things down. I keep all your emails and I put them on our little system here that we have. And we decide when we, you know, what shows we're going to have and when we're going to have them. So we will eventually get around to everything I would probably imagine.
00:01:52
Speaker
But from a fan, and we never announced who the fan was or anything like that. It was just somebody who sent in a comment using the website at arcpodnet.com.
Addressing Drug Use in Archaeology
00:02:02
Speaker
And they said, would you please do a podcast about field crew using drugs to deal with fatigue and pain? I've recently learned that this is not uncommon among field techs and crew chiefs and is casually talked about. The preferred substances are marijuana, chewies, mushrooms, alcohol, and even LSD.
00:02:20
Speaker
please address how a fellow field tech or crew chief should address this when on a project. So that is a heavy topic and that's what we're going to talk about. And I'll tell you what, this is completely anecdotal, but there's pretty, pretty confirmed stories from a couple of companies that I knew way back in the day. This is, this is from times back in, say the, I think it was like the mid to late eighties when
00:02:43
Speaker
you know, CRM companies were, they were inventing CRM at that time as a business, right? In the 80s, late 70s, 80s. These people were just like, every time a new company started up, I feel like they were just inventing the business all over again and trying to figure out what was going on. And some of these people, they just like trying to get reports done and you're typing these out on a typewriter half the time, you know, leading into computers. But there were stories of
00:03:06
Speaker
some principal investigators supplying like cocaine and other things like that, like uppers to get people, keep people awake and keep people going in order to just keep working on, on these late night, you know, reports and things like that. I didn't get the impression that was for field work. That was for completing lab work and reports and just getting this stuff out on time and cranking out more work. Because even back then, they probably weren't paying a whole lot for the work they were doing as a company, let alone the employees. And you know, the more work you did, the more, the more pay you got. And so
00:03:36
Speaker
Again, I never talked to anybody directly that got supplied that or saw that, but you hear it from enough people, you start wondering if there's a grain of truth to it. You know what I mean?
Professionalism and Drug Use
00:03:46
Speaker
So does anybody have any direct stories of hearing somebody that you worked with or, I mean, I don't know if you're willing to mention yourselves or not, but that used something to, I don't know, enhance their performance or take away some pain or do something like that? Yes.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, who wants to go first? You go first, Andrew. Me? Oh, man. OK, so I'm just going to start with, hey, kids, don't do drugs. And I mean that in seriousness, because I think we've all had, you know, friends, family members, you know, beyond the archeology realm that have serious drug problems. But beyond that, in the archeology world, I have to say in my times in CRM,
00:04:29
Speaker
Whatever project I would start on, it's like that either that first morning or that first afternoon, somebody would come up to me and be like, hey, do you smoke? Or something like that. And there would be this idea that like, well, if you're in the field, you're supposed to smoke weed. That's just like what's done in the field. And it's like this cliche like, oh, you're only really with the in crowd. You're only really like a real CRM archaeologist if you smoke weed in the afternoon.
00:04:59
Speaker
You know, and look, I got to say this like I went to UCSB in the 90s. OK, I'm not a like ignorant child when it comes to various drug usage, but.
00:05:13
Speaker
It like I utterly don't care about it, if that makes sense. And it's not good for you. Right. So I'm tired of people coming up to me in the archeology world. Right. Asking me if I want to smoke weed. The answer is no. And the double answer is.
00:05:30
Speaker
Dude, you're like 35 years old. What's wrong with you? Like, you still think this is cool? Like, who cares? Like, stop. And I just you know, it gets me totally on my high horse because everyone I've ever known who's done this as they do it, as the decades go by, they just get stupid.
00:05:47
Speaker
I'm like like you smoke too much weed stop it you say stupid shit i don't wanna hear it you think it's good because you're high but you're annoying right it's not something you need to do to experience the world a little more you're not missing anything right like.
00:06:06
Speaker
I'll give you a pass if you're like 20 years old and you come up to me and you think it's the coolest thing ever. But if you're 23, like stop. So anyway, it's it's something that has bugged me for years. I'm like, grow up. And and even I have to say I have to be a bit of a hard ass when it comes to the post.
00:06:27
Speaker
Like the fan wrote, would you please do a podcast about, you know, using drugs to deal with fatigue and pain? You're going to drop LSD to deal with fatigue and pain. Are you freaking kidding? Right. It's like it's the dumbest thing. And I again, I'm overall I'm OK with like marijuana being legal. I understand why it needs to be and stuff.
00:06:50
Speaker
But that seems to have given, especially the younger generation, they feel like they have this carte blanche just to like take it whenever. And it's like, no, it's just the same as alcohol. Now, like you don't show up to work high. You don't like get high on the job. You are unprofessional. Stop it. Right. I will not hire you ever again if I see this crap grow up, you know, and don't say, oh, it's for your fatigue and pain, which is why you have to take gummies. F that.
00:07:17
Speaker
You know, like, no, have some Advil because that's really what, you know, helps her sore joints. You see, it's like that's how I feel. I really get like burned on this because I'm just tired of the that like theme of like, oh, yeah, you just have to take it to be a true archaeologist. No, you don't. I just don't I don't understand.
00:07:39
Speaker
Like you wouldn't walk around saying that I'm drinking to get through the day drinking to get through the fields. And basically that's what that's, it's the same concept. People forget because now it's legal and before it wasn't that now that means you can use it in every context. No, it's right. Think of it like alcohol. You would not be drinking or shouldn't.
00:08:03
Speaker
be drinking. I think people are a lot more open to thinking it's okay to be, and I don't know about the smoking, I haven't seen that, but Edibles for sure. I have heard of and
00:08:16
Speaker
seen evidence of people doing edibles while they're working. And that is just, it's unprofessional. And even if you get away with it, it's not a good look. And there are so many better ways to curb pain. And a lot of times just like alcohol, it does affect your body. So it's not,
00:08:42
Speaker
You know, it's not the answer, really. Now, I'm not all that versed on aspects of the plant cannabis that can or I'm not even using the right terminology, I'm sure. So I'm showing my ignorance, but it's called wacky tobacco. OK, wacky tobacco.
00:09:00
Speaker
But I know there's some elements, right, of the plant that can, like in salves and things like that, they can help people without having, I think it's the THC that is what makes you high. Yes. Yes, it is. Okay.
Health, Safety, and Prescription Implications
00:09:18
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, there's, there are some things that you can use. I'm sure, you know, please, nobody go buy this podcast or buy at least what I'm saying.
00:09:27
Speaker
But I think that you just, people say, okay, well then why should I have to be taking a bunch of a leaf? Why are you saying a leaves okay? Because when it's natural is not okay. Well, first of all, here's just a practical answer to that. It isn't okay when you're, you are considered to be under the influence when you're on pot. You're not considered to be that when you're on a leaf. So if you just don't want to impact your career and your job,
00:09:57
Speaker
Don't be under the influence. It's that simple. Be a professional. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So this was a so Bill couldn't be with us and he has a couple of comments and I think we'll bring them off in the next segment. And his big thing is, you know,
00:10:12
Speaker
don't be using anything without a prescription. And this actually goes a bit back to Heather's comment there as well. So a leave is generally okay, but we all, we all see it. Every cough medicine bottle, day quote, whatever says, do not operate heavy machinery on it. And like even having a prescription does not necessarily negate some of the issues and some of the legal aspects. So even having a prescription for pot,
00:10:39
Speaker
doesn't mean you can drive a vehicle. And then also in a work situation as well, even if you're not, say, operating heavy machinery or vehicle, it still might not be legal in a health and safety sense. And that if you're under the influence and let's say someone else gets hurt, they didn't listen to our podcast about how you don't need to do one by ones. And there's a bunch of stakes around.
00:11:07
Speaker
someone trips, lands on it, hurts themselves. It's not you, but you have a responsibility to be sober, as it were, and be able to help. And so you're opening yourself up to lawsuits, even if you're not, you know, doing what you think would be dangerous work. If you're not in the right mind or able-bodied when you should be,
00:11:30
Speaker
There's a whole liability issue and employers can easily, easily fire you. Even if it's legal, they can have other requirements about what you can and cannot do. And yeah, just because, you know, you have a prescription or even if it's say less, less controversial, like cough medicine, doesn't mean it's not risk-free. And you definitely need to take that into account. Totally. And I guess there's so much more to get to that we will talk about more on the flip side of this. So we'll see you guys in a minute.
00:12:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Sierra Mark podcast episode 285. We are talking about drug use, not just drug use in the field, which I'm sure just happens, but the fan was specifically talking about drug use to deal with certain things like pain and fatigue. I think it's been mentioned in a couple of different ways now, but there are circumstances where you're prescribed something that may
00:12:24
Speaker
you know, may hinder your ability to do something. And you really have to pay attention to that. A lot of times we don't, right? Like you're just like, Oh, you know, don't operate heavy machinery. And you're like, well, I don't operate a bulldozer, but that means a car too, or a field truck. So, or, or else are you around heavy equipment?
00:12:39
Speaker
Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you don't want to be impaired when you have to be kind of like on your game. Right. And, and even, like I said, even with this is a prescribed grading excavators. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I would probably disclose that to my employer, obviously, unless it was, I mean, if it was a work related injury, they probably know some about it. But if they, if they don't, then you should probably disclose something that you're being prescribed and taken just
00:13:05
Speaker
You know, just so people know and, and also if something happens to you in the field and I don't know, maybe you pass out for some other reason or you're unconscious and they have to call nine one or some nine one one or something happens, maybe somebody will know that you're actually on some sort of prescription medication. So you don't be given something that could conflict with that. Right. Especially if it's something, uh, something heavy like opioids or something like that. But chances are if you're on those, I can't imagine you're, you're probably doing fieldwork anyway, or probably shouldn't be doing fieldwork if I had to guess, but I don't know.
00:13:35
Speaker
So most countries legally, you do not have to disclose any medical conditions to your employers. I definitely know because I had to do stuff looking at the laws in the UK and vaguely for the US. And there's some pretty good reasons for that. And I know we're talking about sort of the more fun recreational drug side of things and for pain and whatnot, but there's a whole other
00:14:02
Speaker
I mean, there's a whole other class of drugs as well. People with mental health issues might be on lithium. And that can definitely affect your ability to do certain tasks. But then again, there's a lot of stigma around that. And as much as I'd like to say that every employer is understanding and will work with you, there are some that aren't. So it is, I would generally say, from a health and safety point of view, that you should be disclosing these things.
00:14:32
Speaker
There's a range of things, some of those, some things you might be on also might affect your ability to process heat. So certain medications, you can get really sunburned much easier or you don't, basically you can't sweat out as much. It affects your ability to sweat or regulate your heat. And there's a whole list of medications, fame. We, we posted up a paper so you can go look at like, oh God, it's, it's dozens upon dozens of medications.
00:15:00
Speaker
And so those are other things that like, even if it's minor can really affect your health. And generally I'd say it's good to talk to your employer about this because as Chris said, if you pass out or if, you know, you need to get a little bit extra shade or, you know, carry more water, these various things you might need for different medications. That being said, you know, some employers will
00:15:26
Speaker
They can't fire you for that, but they might find a way to not rehire you, not take you on. Generally, I'd say it's a good way to weed out bad employers, but you may not be in a financial place to be able to have that decision. So it's always tough. From a health and safety point of view, knowing that is really good, but I understand from being able to stay employed, that may not always be an option.
00:15:54
Speaker
You know, so I, I understand there are some people that have these stigmas and they're not, they're very strict and they're not willing to look at circumstances. However, you have to look at the practical side of things. If you have been hired to do a job that let's say is on a military base or you're being hired, you were specifically hired, especially in the as native position.
00:16:19
Speaker
to do a job that requires you to be around very heavy equipment and to be very aware and on top of your game. It is a liability for a employer to be putting you out there knowing that you were under the influence of some medication. Even though it's prescribed, it's legal, there's no issue with it. It's just like if somebody was walking around with crutches.
00:16:44
Speaker
and they're not agile, they're not able to move out of the way of large excavators. No employer cares about their employees and in their right mind would put somebody in crutches out on, and I know that's an exaggeration, but I think we need to kind of look at the common sense side of this. On top of that, there's, you know, so we went through this, we have a federal project,
00:17:10
Speaker
was not a military base, but it was being funded with federal monies and the client was requiring drug testing and that drug testing had, it was all five drugs. It wasn't just like the drugs that are illegal in California. It included pot or marijuana. And, and so, you know, people were complaining and saying, you can't require me to take this test. Well, because of the nature of the project,
00:17:36
Speaker
The company did have to do that because it was part of the contract. It was part of the requirement. It was a federal project. It was required. So if you are taking these drugs, you have to understand it will limit the kind of work that
Legal and Project Requirements
00:17:50
Speaker
you can do. If you're fortunate to have a full-time job and there's other aspects that a lawyer can put you on, then great. But if you were hired specifically, let's say for this job,
00:18:02
Speaker
And then you find out you have to take a drug test and that drug test reveals that you are on a substance that is not allowed. I mean, you've put yourself in a position where now you cannot work. And that's the practical side of things. People need to consider these.
00:18:16
Speaker
Right. You know, again, I've just as we've been talking, I've been thinking about this kind of stuff. And I've just noticed so much of this over my career, you know, in terms of people, I guess, you know, sort of self medicaid in their own way. And I'll say this as we talk about marijuana. I understand if somebody takes a gummy in the afternoon before they go to bed or something, I would relate something like that vaguely equivalent to just, oh, you had a glass of wine with dinner.
00:18:41
Speaker
You know what I mean? So that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about being serious about these things. And I just, I worry again, especially for younger people that they don't take this stuff seriously, right? And on top of everything else, we talked about the THC content, man, the THC content of marijuana today. This is not your grandma's marijuana.
00:19:04
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like the stuff from the 90s, it's not the same. So it's like very little amounts can really affect you. And I will say in my own experience, the worst times I ever had on any sort of.
00:19:21
Speaker
drug, whatever it may be, the worst ones were from marijuana. So marijuana is like this harsh mistress, right, where it's seen as no big deal, but it's it can be a very big deal, right? It sort of runs the gamut. It's a bit unique in the drug world. So I just I hope that that people listening to this at very least take
00:19:43
Speaker
Seriously, like as we've been talking side effects, how long things last, what that does to your body, what you can and cannot do, you know, and again, just be a professional.
00:19:54
Speaker
You know, just kind of rereading this question, there's a focus on what should field text or a crew chief do to address these types of, you know, maybe the purposes behind people using this. One thing is, let's get down to, okay, why do people use drugs? Either it's recreationals or fun. And they're saying that it's because they're in pain.
00:20:17
Speaker
or because they truly are in pain or maybe they're very tired and they're trying to combat some issues with fatigue. So I think one thing that we need to understand is that any medication that you take is masking your body's ability to talk to you and to tell you
00:20:39
Speaker
It's the issues that it's having. It's too tired. It's sore. And so when you take drugs, it allows you to ignore your body's normal responses. And so that is one danger for your health long-term. Also, drugs then require many times they have side effects that then you have to come back with more drugs.
00:21:02
Speaker
or other kinds of substances to bring you back to normal or let's say you've been just even looking at alcohol. Like you drink at night because you're sore, you just want to relax, fall asleep quickly, but then you got the hangover, right? And then you're tired the next day because you drank too much or you're dehydrated now. So no matter how much you drink, you're dehydrated and that's definitely going to affect you on the job.
00:21:30
Speaker
But as in the stuff, you know, moderation and all things, right? You could have a drink or two versus, you know, like you're not going to have a hangover from a drink or two unless you've never, unless you don't drink or you have some kind of a reaction to wine or whatever. Then here's the other thing is that why are we sore? Now we're sore because we're doing a lot of manual labor, but what are some things that we can do to prevent us from being
00:21:55
Speaker
more sore than we have to be stretching, taking care of your body, making sure you're eating properly. Like a lot of times people that take drugs do not take care of their body in other ways. And so they're trying to mask
00:22:09
Speaker
the repercussions of not taking care of their body. Right. You know, I think you have to look at this in a holistic sense where we're taking care of ourselves. And, you know, listen, I get it because you're busy, busy, busy. And sometimes the last thing you want to do or can do
00:22:29
Speaker
or have the ability to take care of your body. It takes a lot of work to do that. But as archaeologists, we're athletes. We are athletes and you have to treat your body as an athlete would. Garbage in, garbage out.
00:22:45
Speaker
I'm so glad you said that just because I was like, oh, man, I'm going to have to be the old man, get off my lawn and say that same thing that you just did, which is, you know, you hear this like, oh, I have fatigue, fatigue, fatigue. It's like, dude, you need to sleep. You know what I mean? It's like you have to you have to give yourself time to sleep. And with that other stuff, I was thinking stretching, too. You have to do that stuff. And I know it sounds like what do you mean? I'm I'm 26. I don't need to do this. It's like, yeah, you do. You'll only be better off if you can do some of these simple things.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I guess with that, we'll continue on this topic on the other side. So we'll see you guys again in just a moment. Welcome back to Sierra Mark two 85. And we're talking about drug use in the field, specifically to deal with fatigue and pain, but you know, drug use in the field.
Communication and Safety Responsibilities
00:23:31
Speaker
So Doug, I think you had a comment from the last segment. Go ahead. Yeah, it was basically to play off of what Heather was saying. I think this is something that you shouldn't be masking.
00:23:43
Speaker
issues with drugs, it should actually be having a conversation with your employer. And this is very valuable information for an employer to know as well as how hard are you pushing your crew? Because if it's one person who feels like they need to knock back some opiates to be able to show up to work the next day,
00:24:07
Speaker
That's probably not just one person, but obviously, you know, if you're, if you're getting back into the field or it's your first time out those first couple of weeks, you're going to be a bit sore and it's going to take you a bit of time to get acclimated to the field and that work. And that's understandable. But, you know, if, if, you know, you're six months in and you're struggling, that should be definitely a conversation.
00:24:32
Speaker
with an employer and if they're a good company, and this is a good way to find out if they're a good company, or you have a good line manager or manager, there's people there, as if there's going to be discussions about what you're doing, how you're doing it. I'm just thinking about how many people overfill buckets all the time and then wonder why they're so sore. There's a whole range of ways to be addressing your health and your body. As Heather was saying,
00:24:59
Speaker
outside of needing to use drugs. So I think that's a huge thing. And then the segues into, I think that whole idea of having a conversation should also be how the question from the viewer asked you, how do you deal with that? You shouldn't deal with this. If you're field tech and this is an issue, you pass that up the chain of command.
00:25:23
Speaker
It's not your job. And then there's also some health and safety and risk stuff to you as well. I mean, if you're out in the middle of nowhere and you have, quote unquote, narcs on one of your fellow, you know, or they believe that you're causing troubles or you're not cool, as Andrew said, and what was your terminology or stuff? I forget what you were saying. But, you know, basically that there could be some real dangers from people who basically
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, come after you because they think you're causing problems for them. So it shouldn't be something that you should ever deal with. It should always be something dealt with at the company level. Companies should have, it should be in your contracts, your terms and conditions. There should be policies about drug use and all that sort of stuff. And it should be something that someone higher up deals with. And if you are that person higher up, you should have got some training and discussions about how you approach that.
00:26:22
Speaker
how you approach it safely and how you ensure that your entire staff is safe. And I realize that is not every organization you're going to be working for will do that. But again, this is a good opportunity to sort of weed out ones you don't want to work for. I think we could talk about this many times, but not every organization is going to be one that you want to work for. There might be some that this is actually a company culture.
Positive Company Culture and Safety Prioritization
00:26:49
Speaker
I mean,
00:26:50
Speaker
Chris had talked about it being the 1980s. But you know, there are some organizations that do have that sort of more laid back, maybe laid backs out the right term, but a much more party attitude. And we've been talking sort of semi-legalish, illegal drugs, you know, things you might need a prescription for, you know, a bit on that on the drug side. But there's also, you know, alcohol is a drug as well. And again, there are certain organizations where
00:27:17
Speaker
It's not safe, the levels of drinking and alcohol consumption that happens during work or in a work-related context. Again, it's a good way to filter out those employers you don't want to work for because it's about keeping you safe. Again, I'm going back to that whole, they didn't listen to our podcast about how you can do
00:27:40
Speaker
You don't need to do one by ones. You can have stateless sites. Someone trips over, you trip over something, you get hurt. You want someone else there who knows first aid and who is there both sort of mentally to be able to help you out. So if it's unsafe, it's not just like you being safe, it's everyone around you. Because if you need help, you need help from someone who is conscious, who's there, and who is not
00:28:07
Speaker
going to freak out because they see blood while they're on shrooms and start screaming and just make the whole situation worse. Yeah, I think you bring up a great point about the like being ostracized or whatever, if you want, you know, like smoke weed with everyone else. And the answer to that is like be ostracized. It's OK. You know, like I've I've been on projects where I actually had an alcoholic beverage in my hand. Somebody asked me, do I drink? I said no as a joke.
00:28:35
Speaker
And then the whole crew thought I was like anti-drugs and alcohol, and I didn't care. I just let it roll. I'm like, yeah, I don't drink as I would have a drink. And so it's okay to be ostracized with this stuff. And what I found is totally what you say is the cream rises to the top. Over time, the good companies don't have as much of this crap going on. So if you play the long game in CRM, yeah, you'll deal with a couple duds, especially in the beginning.
00:29:02
Speaker
But you can kind of keep a note to yourself. It's like these companies are more professional on these projects. This crap doesn't happen. You know, so it's OK, especially if you're starting out in CRM, you're on a few projects where there's a ton of this. It's like, it's fine. Be the outsider on top of that. Like you're saying, if something bad happens, guess who they're going to turn to? Yeah, it's not the stone guy in the corner. It's you. I think that, you know, what's a little more difficult than the average workplace is that
00:29:30
Speaker
You know, when you're out in the fields, you're working with people, you're there with them 24 seven. I mean, whether you like it or not, even though you go to your hotel room and everything, you're not able to go home and be social so that that's what encourages the social aspect of the fields. And many times that's where I think lines are blurred and I get it. I get it. But I think that.
00:29:53
Speaker
You want to work for a company that encourages health and safety through a culture of health. And it's not just, oh, let's make sure we have a hard hat on and everything. It is an actual culture of health. And I think people need to understand that, you know, look at firemen. Firemen go through boot camp. Firemen have an academy where they're, they have to demonstrate that they're physically ready to do the job.
00:30:20
Speaker
They're constantly running and staying in shape. They have gyms in their facilities. So this, I think that we forget that, and I know we've mentioned this before on the podcast, we forget that side of archeology. It's very labor intensive and people need to understand that their body has limits. And so if you are getting tired and let's say you're out of shape, you need to get in shape. I mean, if you want to be in the field,
00:30:50
Speaker
And you're not in shape, like you're not going to have somebody in a fire. You're not going to, you're not going to have somebody who is obese, working in a fire department, actually fighting fires, climbing up stairs. It's not going to happen. They don't, unless it's a volunteer fire, but most like.
00:31:09
Speaker
most fire departments are not going to allow that to happen. And that's the problem though is that people then take that personally. And if companies are making decisions to make sure that the people that are out in the field, if they're expecting, if they have a 6,000 acre survey and they have to get, you know, they have calculated a reasonable pace, but if somebody is not in shape,
00:31:34
Speaker
I am this is from somebody right now who's been at the desk a lot and i'm not in shape so it would hurt my feelings too however i'm.
00:31:44
Speaker
I have enough common sense to know that I'm not going to be able to keep up with somebody who is regularly walking at a very high pace, who weighs less than I do, who's younger than me. I'm in my fifties. You know, we have to, we can't say, oh, that's discrimination. No, that's keeping you safe. If you are physically not capable of doing that work, you need to be honest with yourself.
00:32:09
Speaker
And sometimes, so I think some of the issues are that people are pushing their bodies beyond what their bodies are capable of. They should not be expecting the company to reduce the expectations if they're not capable of what others are. And so I think it dives into lots of different areas, but for the most part, you want to work for companies. And I don't think companies, it's a bad, and I'm not saying that's what Doug and Andrew are saying, but
00:32:37
Speaker
I agree with you. You can't say it's a bad company when you come to the company and say, I'm so sore. I can't handle this pace. You're asking me to do too much when it's not an unreasonable pace. Maybe it's unreasonable for you, but you're not in the shape you need to be in for this role. So let's find another role for you. I know it's hard. It's a hard truth, but it, but it's the truth. No, it's just a playoff of Heather's earlier comment and about like, you know,
00:33:06
Speaker
close-knit, you're working with people, you're out in the fields, you can be out for maybe 10 days in a row in the middle of nowhere. Again, that's what I was really emphasizing. It shouldn't be your problem. You should be able to take this to your supervisor, whether that's called a crew tree for a project officer or whatever the terminology, project manager, maybe it's the PI, something like that. Again, it should be something they can handle. If it's them, that's the issue.
00:33:35
Speaker
You should have been given some sort of number or an office or a place to call for issues like that. And that should be a red flag if you're basically being put out in the field with no way of being able to contact someone higher up if there are issues. I'd say, you know, it's a tough thing to do, especially if you're starting out, maybe this is your very first project. But if you don't feel safe with the actions of your other crew members,
00:34:04
Speaker
walk away, you're going to burn that bridge. But if you feel like every morning you're going there and you have to ride in the vehicle and everyone's still a bit drunk and you're afraid that they're going to flip a vehicle or get in an accident, archaeology is not worth your life. So if you feel it's danger, send it up the chain of command and if they don't respond, just walk away.
00:34:31
Speaker
Okay. I think that's good advice and probably a good place to end this podcast. However, I did want to bring up one thing that is, I guess it's health related, but it's actually a good positive note
Health Update on Richie Cruz
00:34:43
Speaker
here. So we've mentioned before on this show, Richie Cruz, who's somebody a lot of people out here in the West know, and he has been very public on his social media and he had a GoFundMe campaign, still does.
00:34:54
Speaker
for his health issues. He was diagnosed with basically colon cancer, a severe form of it last fall, and got an infection over the winter while he was dealing with and getting chemotherapy and stuff like that. They basically put him in hospice care and told him his life was limited. I've got a positive update. The infection's gone. They've taken him off of hospice care and are putting him back into chemotherapy.
00:35:18
Speaker
It's kind of a crazy situation because he got rid of a lot of stuff and moved to his uncle's house in California, got rid of his apartment, and was basically planning for the end of his life. And now there's light at the end of the tunnel. So I just wanted to put that out there for anybody following along. Check out Richie Cruz and all of his socials. Like I said, he's very public about all this stuff and wants people to know how he's doing and just the situation that he's been in. So I wanted to bring that up for anybody following along.
00:35:46
Speaker
Thanks, Chris. Yeah, no worries. And the other thing was too, again, health related because he started feeling bad in the field while he was crew chiefing and running a project. And it was just, luckily, he was paid attention to, at least eventually. And his employer has been pretty good about
00:36:06
Speaker
his health insurance and then keeping him busy and things like that. When he can, he's been really fatigued. But if you feel anything, if you feel like you're not quite right in the field, you need to get it checked out. You need to get it taken care of. You may not have health insurance. You may not have some of the other things. But you also may die. So what's the trade-off? A whole bunch of medical bills that you've got to deal with legally or dying? I hate that we have to make, but it is a decision that we have to make sometimes.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, with that, thanks a lot. Keep those comments coming arc pod net.com. There's a contact form right on there. There's contact form in every single page. So, um, it generally goes to me or just goes to the, uh, to the arc pod net email, but either way we see that and we enjoy your questions and just let us know. All right. Thanks a lot everybody. And we'll see you next time.
00:36:59
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www.arcpodnet.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use the contact form on the website.
00:37:17
Speaker
or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at archpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions. We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere, and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks to everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to listeners for tuning in, and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye. Thanks for listening.
00:37:40
Speaker
And with my bye, I just want to say go get a colonoscopy. I'm 52 years old. I did mine recently. It's not that big of a deal. Do it, do it, do it. It can save your life. Bye. Countdown. There you go.
00:38:01
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.