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00:00:01
Heather's origin story - Ep 293
477 Plays2 months ago
In this episode we explore how one of our panelists, Heather, began her career in archaeology. From professional hockey referee to archaeology and everything before and after.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/293
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube) Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 293 of the CRM Podcast. This is Doug, based in Scotland. I will be the main host for today's episode, and today I am joined by Heather in California. Hi, everyone. That is all I'm joined by today. So we're going to do something a little bit different to this episode, and we're going to be learning a bit about Heather. This is Heather's origin story episode. So, jumping right into it, Heather, I'm pretty sure you've mentioned this in previous podcasts and stuff, but archaeology is your second career, third career? You had a career before archaeology. Yeah. I had a few careers before archaeology. I would say my first, like, actual career
00:01:10
Speaker
was I was an ice hockey referee, a professional ice hockey referee. And I started that as as a young person and moved up the ranks. And about my sixth year was contracted by a professional hockey league. And I refereed professional hockey for eight years and then also did international. I was um registered with the International Ice Hockey Federation, which is who staffs all of the World Championships and Olympics. And it's each country has an allotted amount of
00:01:42
Speaker
of officials that can work those every year. in And so I was registered on that list for 10 years, along with about at the time at about 28 others. And then I started a family. i I had my son, Connor, and and then a few years later, Chloe, and I decided that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. And so I did a lot of gig stuff, a lot of, you know, like archaeologists do. So it's kind of been in my blood for a while and just did a lot of side work in order to be able to stay at home and and raise my kids until they started going to school regularly.
00:02:21
Speaker
And then I went back to school. And I also, I had learned a vocation of upholstery. So I did auto, boat, marine, and and home furniture upholstery. And then I ended up teaching upholstery and got my teacher's credential doing doing that. so i i did a teaching upholstery through an adult school. And I did that for you for years. And that's actually part of what I did to work my way through graduate school was teaching upholstery. um I might just pull back just a ah step or so. When you say professional ice hockey,
00:02:56
Speaker
Like as in, so I know basically like NHL, and I do know just from you know being from a ah smaller town, and there's also leagues below that that that we had one. So what sort of level were you doing? And when you say international, did you mention the Olympics and stuff like that? Yeah. Well, it sounds sorry. It's good to just be a complete delay. You're getting to archeology yet, but can you tell me a little bit more about, yeah, ice hockey. Sorry. It's just, it's such an interesting thing that I don't know anyone who yeah, involved in professional.
00:03:31
Speaker
I actually think that my referring capabilities have absolutely helped me be a better archaeologist and certainly a better manager. So I worked, there's there's several levels. There's something called Junior A, which is the highest level of amateur hockey that somebody plays in. And sometimes people that start going in, you know, they get drafted into the professional ranks, specifically NHL, will either play or they'll either be drafted from junior A or more often than not they're they're drafted from college ranks but it's either or they can and so I worked that hockey for a while junior A hockey which is you know a high level and then I refereed a few leagues actually that were like they've moved around a lot you know as far as the levels and so
00:04:21
Speaker
Generally, just for those that are into hockey, it's the farm leagues for NHL teams. And and then for international hockey, I did World Championship. I refereed a tour prior to the Olympics. So I traveled around and I did all the all the Olympic teams and the pre-games for all the, for the Olympics. And yeah, so, and I've been in it since I was 17 years old. I'm still involved in it. I really enjoy mentoring other officials. I have scheduled various ranks right now. I schedule a local rank in Goleta or Santa Barbara, California, and enjoy sharing the community with with new people. And yeah, it's in my blood. It'll never leave. Never leave. Yeah, it'll never leave. Understandable. And so you you know did stay at home, mom, and then you picked up a trade doing upholstery. Yes. And you know you went back to school. A couple of questions there. Why archaeology? and Well, i so I have a budget question. i I'm just going to throw them out there so I don't forget them, but it's okay it's why archaeology and why not just sticking with upholstery and
00:05:35
Speaker
Also, can you tell me a bit about the timing of you know when you decided to go back because your kids didn't hit a certain age or what was the reasoning there? So, I had been into archaeology as a young person from ah a really early age. I'm going to date myself, but I had a pen pal. I don't think those they're really popular anymore, but you would send in your name and to a this... I forget the name of the company, but it was well, you know, back in the eighties and you send in your name and then they match you up with someone else, you know, across the world in another part of the world. Typically that's around your age. And then you start conversing back and forth through male. And so I was connected with a young man about my age who lived in Cairo, Egypt. And he was his name was Hashim Muhammad Ali.
00:06:30
Speaker
And I'd love to reconnect with him. Maybe someday. I've tried it and in in it's a popular name I found out. So it'll be difficult. But anyway, and he introduced me to pictures of Cairo and the pyramids. And it just, you know, I'm only eight at the time. or seven, I'm eight at the time when I started seven or eight. And so, you know, the concept of, of pyramids was kind of unique to me. I don't even know if I, if I had known about them, maybe I did, but I certainly learned a lot more about them through Hosham. And he was a much better pen pal than I was. And he would send me all these different
00:07:13
Speaker
You know pictures that either he would draw or postcards that he would send me and he would explain about the beautiful pyramids. The other thing he introduced me to was Donna Summer, which is funny. The singer Donna Summer and all of her music and and so we we converse back and forth and that is what started my interest in archaeology. My dad's a of a physicist, a high energy theoretical physicist. And his answer to everything is, if you're interested in it, he throws an old textbook at you and he says, here, read it. And if you're more interested, I'll get you more books. And so I started reading and like I couldn't stop. I was just enamored with the subject. And then he started throwing me actually old books by so funny Brian Fagan, who
00:08:01
Speaker
ends up, you know, he was chair at the University of California, Santa Barbara, where I live. And it's funny how things work out that way. I grew up in Chicago area, the Chicago suburbs. And so I just started reading and then he he started getting me magazines and they were quarterly magazines about archaeology and I would read them probably multiple times. until my next issue came, I was just, yeah, just loved the subject. And so that stuck with me throughout my life. And actually, because of my hockey career that took off right at the age, my early twenties, I didn't actually go to college. Actually, it was my late teens that it, that it took off. And then
00:08:47
Speaker
went into professional hockey, but I was ah was so so busy with that career that I actually ended up not going to college right away. and so But I've always been a learner and i I love learning new things, diving in and just researching. And because of that, I have a great respect for for people that don't go to college. I don't ah automatically assume that they're not um educated. that You can certainly self-educate, right? And some of our greatest ah philosophers and and people that that think things through, and they they don't always have that ah you know the formal education. because And you know it's their own personal pursuit of knowledge that ends up you know informing them their their thoughts or theories, who they are.
00:09:38
Speaker
and so Anyway, when i was teaching upholstery it turned out that you had to change the rules at the adult schools part of the school district that you had to have a teaching credential and so in order to have a teaching credential i had to have and this is a little bit of a shocker i had to have a high school diploma which i did not i did. In theory, I did. um I had finished high school, but I had homeschooled because I was a competitive figure skater. And so I was homeschooled my last two years of high school. And the school that I was homeschooled through, as you know, early, obviously in the 80s, was not accredited and they wouldn't accept that diploma. So I had to go and get a GED.
00:10:23
Speaker
And it's just kind of this roundabout way of how I got back to school. And I got the GED and I actually, I can't remember what the score was, but it was so high that they thought that I had cheated on it. And so um I took it at this community college and the community college, and the person that was in charge of that department, pulled me in and said, you know, he told me, because, you know, when we were looking at your score, we thought maybe you cheated. He goes, but we look weird. Like, there's no way you cheated here. And he says, you know, I'm bringing you in because I want to encourage you to go to college. I think I would be doing a disservice if I didn't tell you that you should go to college. And this should not be your end. you I know you're doing this to get a credential, a single subject credential so you can continue to teach upholstery.
00:11:15
Speaker
But i think you should go to college and that i'd always thought about doing it but i you know my life when another direction and and so that's what kind of started my process towards going to school and so i went to a community college. And that is actually where i met andrew and he was my first professor and and i went to community college and then I went to a university at Cal State University. I got my bachelor's and I immediately got my master's right after that. So I've been doing a lot of talking. I'll let you. Well, i I have questions about that, but we'll ah well <unk> pick up on on your education or university education but when we get back from the break. Welcome back, everyone. Heather is giving us the lowdown on her history and life as it moved into archaeology.
00:12:06
Speaker
where we left off was university. So Heather, you you'd said you'd mentioned you'd gone community college first. Then, so did you do sort of an associates or like the first two equivalent for yeah know first two years and then move over to bachelor's and then did you go straight into a master's? And sorry, I'm gonna throw a bunch of questions at you so I don't forget them. um Also, yeah did you did you work in archaeology or did you go straight through degrees and then then jump into archaeology? so i i was It was a community to college. I did not i think I did get an associate's just because that's the way it was set up and not all community colleges have it set up in that way. You don't necessarily have to. You can just go straight into the university system, the four-year system using you know the
00:12:57
Speaker
the credits that you have and and then just moving forward if you don't feel like getting an associates. But I think the way this program was set up and also I tend to, I tend to like take a lot of classes every semester. And so I think maybe that was the other reason, but so I did get an associates, but that wasn't, you know, I i did really didn't have that as a goal. I ah had four years as a goal, not when I started though. So when I started, it was just putting my my you know toes in the water a bit and my kids were, my daughter was still young. She was in preschool if I remember correctly, but she was not in kindergarten yet. My son was in like first or second grade. And
00:13:36
Speaker
So, you know, i was I was working around their schedule and around preschool and and then also doing night classes. And and then i I got some encouragement from professors there. This was a lot of, you know, I was a good so it was always a good student, but, you know, you forget things. when it's been that long and so yeah I had some had some challenges and you know wondering is this really what I should be doing and and then a bit but eventually I did end up going because I loved it so much and I decided I wanted to have a career in archaeology pretty quickly and Andrew definitely encouraged that and
00:14:16
Speaker
and so did some of my other professors. And so I actually was able to start a career in archaeology. I was monitoring for a small company that had ah a large yeah had a had a contract, a government contract. And so I had work right away. The other thing, the the actual reason why I got that job was because immediately I decided when i when I started that I wanted to intern and really kind of dive in and And get some experience and so I i had started working in a museum working with their collections and decided that I wanted to kind of do a capstone senior project. Not that that was necessary. It was not necessary at the university to have something like that, but I.
00:15:01
Speaker
decided that I wanted to have something that most of my papers and most of the research that had to have some continuity would be based on. And so also I'm practical i'm a very practical person. So I wanted to learn a skill set that I thought would be marketable, that would help me get a job quicker. And so I picked funnel analysis after talking to several you know different different people. And um that was suggested that I they go into funnel analysis. So that's what I did. And and so That, let's see, I think that answers one of your questions. And then I went straight, I mean, immediately straight into getting my bachelor's. And then, yes, i right away, as soon as I finished my bachelor's, I went into my into my ah master's. um And that subject, the collection that I worked on,
00:15:53
Speaker
was, uh, for my master's was carried me throughout my entire academic career. And I did work, uh, one of your questions, did I work full-time? I did. I worked full-time throughout. I was teaching upholstery at first, and I was doing that full-time. And then, well, I should, I was teaching school full-time as well. I did. part time we Full-time. So I had a full-time schedule. Yeah, so you were doing like 20 hours of school plus 40 hours of work. Yes. And a lot of the work that I did in the very, very beginning, I was teaching, it wasn't a pretty decent schedule. And it was nice because I could take my kids with me to
00:16:36
Speaker
to the school, so they hung out with with me there. and but was you know It was fun, actually. We made it fun. They were familiar with the campus because that's where they went to preschool. and and Then I also was doing ah you know upholstery for clients on the side, and that was something I could do at home. so When I wasn't at school, I was at home doing doing work and doing that out of my garage. and and then First two years I was ah was married and then I separated from my husband and and so I was a single mom and I didn't have any financial help from him. And so I actually was, you know, I had to work pretty hard in order to be able to go to school and and support my kids. So I ended up living in housing.
00:17:21
Speaker
And for the university, and even though it's a commuter campus, it has a fairly large residential campus attached to it. And so I found out that you could be a community advisor or ah is ca a CA, right, to whichever area you were living in or to the whole entire residential campus and your rent would be free. It wasn't free. You worked for it. but You wouldn't have to pay it in monetary ways. You would be paying it through your time. And it was actually a very flexible job because I was
00:17:57
Speaker
You know, I could do a lot of what I did with community advisement. I could do with my kids. I ended up being the community advisor for the faculty and graduate housing. And then I kind of moved up the ranks there. And I did that throughout my graduate school. And so we lived there for about. Yeah, seven years, I think it was at the end of my undergraduate. So I got it actually right away. So that ah helped alleviate some of the cost. And I wasn't I didn't teach upholstery anymore. But then I started working regularly. So I actually was working a full time job plus a part time job plus going to school full time.
00:18:33
Speaker
So when did you sleep? That's a good question. I still don't sleep very much. I've never been a major sleeper. I am good if I get five hours sleep four or five hours sleep. I was a competitive figure skater earlier in my life. And so I woke up every morning at four to go skating before I went to school. And then I would go to school and then I would train some more in the afternoon and evening. And so I was going to school and like a normal kid would. And then I was also skating about eight hours a day and training, skating and training eight hours a day. So that schedule was not formed to me. And I think it set me up, for better or for worse, to be a bit of a workaholic. but
00:19:19
Speaker
So, I mean, it's been my life, my entire life. And my mom had her own business and I worked and did, you know, and helped her as an most people do when their parents had their own business. And so i I worked and helped her whatever tasks that she needed from a very early age. So I've always been very active and busy. Yeah. Well, it sounds like it hasn't quite stopped. ah No. No, it doesn't. But actually, it's not a bad, I love it. i don't I wouldn't know what to do. I mean, if I retire, I'll probably just find another, something else, some other activities to do. i I'm not really good at sitting and not doing anything. And usually if I am sitting and not doing anything, I'm infamous for falling asleep immediately. So if we try to watch a movie, I i only make it like a quarter of the way through usually, unless it's a really good movie. And you're just making up for all that lost time and sleep. Yeah, right.
00:20:14
Speaker
So, it sounds like, yeah and i'll I'll try to rephrase this, so I'm not putting words into your mouth, but in a sense, it sounds like you you said pretty early on you decided you wanted to make archaeology a career, and so then you moved straight in from you know bachelor's to master's. I'm assuming that was calculated in that you probably were familiar with the Secretary of Interiors, or at least understanding that you needed a master's to be permitted. Is that true? and Was that all planned? was in yeahr Yeah, it was kind of a combination. I decided that i I knew that although I thought it was getting a good education, I did not know what I needed to know in order to be a good archaeologist. That came because I was working in archaeology while I was getting my undergraduate. I was very fortunate in that way. And I mean, I had a job
00:21:08
Speaker
right away. It only had been in school a couple of years and I had this great job. It was prevailing wage, so I got paid well. It was, yeah, it was just, it was a great opportunity. And it was also a super fun cleanup site. So I got, you know, just ah initiation by fire, I guess, and really understood pretty quickly what was required if I wanted to move forward in and and move up in the crew in that career and i also knew that i didn't have enough education with the with the undergrad there just was not enough there is. Too much in the business to really teach you everything you need even in a really good serum program.
00:21:50
Speaker
there's And I think it was in a pretty good program that was definitely geared towards at least giving you some initiation in the understanding of CRM rather than just academic archaeology, but even then I still didn't have everything I needed, I thought, in order to become you know, an archaeologist and and move up the ranks. And so I also was a lot of my colleagues that I worked with, they were working on their masters. And so it just seemed like a natural progression for me. um Plus, I do love school. I really love learning. And I had a lot of people encourage me to do that. And um so, yeah, so that's how I ended up.
00:22:35
Speaker
under graduate school I really didn't have any, there was no lapse in time. I just kept going. And the nice thing was i I had a job. And so it wasn't like I had to stop in order to get a job. I was working. So it was ah it was very busy, but it was a good situation. Well, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, I have some questions about how how that worked out with both school and work. So we'll see you guys on the other side of the break.
00:23:04
Speaker
Welcome back to this episode of the CRM podcast as we delve into Heather's origin story. Heather, you'd mentioned both working and then also doing a master's and you know or while also working at the various times, also I think your undergraduate as well. how did that How did you manage that? Was it like night courses, night classes? Did your company have some some of those programs where they you know let you out for like a day or something to go to your your masters?
00:23:40
Speaker
So I actually, so wait, I'm having to like go back into my crevices of memory here, but in undergrad, while I was working undergrad, you know, you usually, if you're strategic about it, you can put all your classes in a few days, right? And pile them up or you can have, and you have night classes too. So that's what I did was I i had night classes and then I had maybe one or two days where I could not work. So ah I'm in as needed, even though I'm working Full I'm working full time hours. I wasn't as needed. So it wasn't like I had certain days that I had to be there. I told them this is when I had classes and they worked around my schedule. And then as far as the also working. For the university, that was something that was a lot of times was early mornings late at night.
00:24:29
Speaker
and things that you tasks that you could accomplish you know in between things on your own schedule. And then also just living. That's why you got free rent because when you're living there, you're it's 24 seven. um You're always supposed to be available to the students and the residents. So that's how that worked in my undergrad. And then when I was in graduate school, a lot of the classes were at night and there were some day classes and I just worked around the schedule. I had wonderful support network. I had a best friend who was just wonderful. She was like a second mom to my kids, and I was that for her daughter. And we had been that way since our kids were young, we knew each other before, or since our kids were born, basically, we knew each other. And our kids were only six months apart, her daughter and my eldest. And so
00:25:21
Speaker
Being able to have that support network network was was helpful. I did not have family that lived here, not my own personal family, although my mom sometimes would come in and and stay with me for some time. Sometimes if I had a really heavy load, she would come in and stay with me for a period of time, and and that was always a big help. So that's how I was able to make that work. And then when I went to graduate school, it was a little bit more flexible because of the schedule that university had. And then also, you know, the work, I just did things in between every little crevice of free time I had was
00:25:59
Speaker
taken up by studying or doing other tasks so that I could study. And I did a lot of stuff in my car. I learned, you know, I still, when I'm in the field, I have no problem working on the computer in my car. I have a whole setup for it, even attached screens. I have three screens, like I had these like portable monitors that you can attach to the computer monitor and allows me to have three screens. And so I actually like to work out in the field in the truck, but so it was always just finding a way. It wasn't easy. That's for sure. It wasn't easy. And I was, I had just wonderful supportive professors too, that would allow me to bring my kids with me to the lab. Or, you know, if I was doing stuff, I had keys so I could go there at any time.
00:26:47
Speaker
of the day or night to do my work. And my kids, it wasn't just me getting you know my graduate degree or my undergraduate degree. It was the team of me and and my kids. And I even put that in my opening to my thesis, is that I hoped that they would look at that that journey as as being something we did together as a team. something great, is something pretty cool that we did together as a team. And it definitely helped our relationship, I think. I don't know how it would have been if it was otherwise, but we're very close. And and I think that it taught them lessons that things are not easy, things that are worthwhile are not easy. And you have to pull
00:27:29
Speaker
You have to pull inspiration from lots of different areas in your life and in you personally to get through things and to accomplish things that are that are worthwhile. so And then I was certainly, obviously, I was motivated to giving my kids a better life and being able to be financially stable so that they then could go and so they could continue to thrive. And you chose archaeology. and then i I just know although it's somewhat of a joke here, but i we we've talked about this many times on the podcast that you know there's there's many ways of doing archaeology and there are
00:28:06
Speaker
fairly stable careers that you can have in it and fairly well-paying jobs as well. Yes. You have to have gumption. you know It's funny because it's just popping in my head. When I was in graduate school, it's a three-year program, but most people were taking about five years to finish it and because it was a rigorous program. It's a very good graduate program. and I had bitten off a lot for my thesis. But I was determined, I was a single mom working that I needed to get, even though I was in the workforce, I needed to get to my next step that I had in my mind that I needed to accomplish. And in order to do that, I needed that schooling, I needed my graduate degree, and I needed the time, more time with my kids so that I wasn't constantly struggling. And so I was just struggling. But ah you know I could reduce some of the hours that I was
00:28:58
Speaker
Dedicating to to working and going to school and so at some point the you know at the end of my three years I was Not the end of my it was near the end of my three years. I was I Needed to continue and there was somebody that was Wonderful, very supportive and everything. But I remember this person was reviewing my my thesis and they said, you know, Heather, I think I think it needs one more. And this is a very well-respected person. And he told me, I think this needs one more, one more year. You need to be in one more year. And I looked at him, I said, no.
00:29:33
Speaker
that's not going to happen. I need to go get a job. I was not some person that just had this, you know, in an amount of time that I could just continue to go to school. I so i cannot do this. i I worked very hard to be able to finish this in three years. I am going to finish it in three years. And I think That gumption of that fortitude, I think, helped me advocate for myself. And not that he was trying to hold me down at all. He wasn't. And in fact, I asked him. he He just didn't have the time. He had not reviewed it. And so he was just kind of going along the line that a lot of other people did. And that was
00:30:09
Speaker
You know, and it's okay. And it's graduate school. You take another year, take out more loans. And I was like, no, I'm not going to do that. And so I really advocated for myself. And I ended up, he was wonderful. He actually basically blocked out an entire week and this is, he had not reviewed anything yet. And so what we did was every chapter or every one or two chapters, he would review it. He would give me the hard copy of it. I would take it home. I would make all the revisions that he suggested. I'd work on you know beefing up this or whatever, deleting some areas that really weren't relevant. And then I would come back the next day, give him the new the new version, the revised version for him to look at again. He'd give me the next
00:30:50
Speaker
one or two or three chapters I would take those home and we did this every day back and forth back and forth and we got it done we got it done in time I submitted it and I got my my degree in three years and it was not easy and it was a definitely an aggressive schedule but I made it happen and I think sometimes having some worldly or some experience outside of archaeology can give you that courage. So I think a lot of times returning students, that is a, it's a benefit. Their their life experience is a benefit because ah you have more perspective than somebody who just went through school and and hasn't you know worked all that much or hasn't had other struggles in their life. I mean, everybody has struggles, but hasn't had
00:31:34
Speaker
hasn't been seasoned by life yet. and so And I think advocating for myself has definitely helped me climb up the ladder as well. and did you once you left grad school Did you continue working for the same company that you were? and yeah what whats What's been your career your career since then in archaeology? I mean, we're talking monitoring, so I assume you were at the sort of technician level, but were you a crew chief project manager by the time you were out of grad school, or can you give us a little bit of background on that part of the aspect of your career?
00:32:08
Speaker
So while I was in graduate school also was getting a certificate in GIS and then I decided because I wasn't I was used to this program and I thought maybe in fact it was my current husband's idea is like listen it seems like maybe maybe you should go get a graduate degree in GIS too because At the time, that was a thing. A lot of archaeologists were kind of doing dual, not that they were getting a separate degree in it, but they were getting at least certificates or they were getting very familiar with GIS so that they could have those capabilities. And because it was smaller companies, having that capability helps you be more marketable. And so I went and at the same university, and also this allowed me to stay in the to stay in the residence, continue living there, because we weren't ready to leave yet. we We didn't know what the next step was going to be, and I didn't i had a job, but tried it in California. It can be very expensive. And so I enrolled in the graduate program for GIS, interdisciplinary, and my thesis was on predictive modeling.
00:33:14
Speaker
And so specifically regarding the mainland sites in Santa Barbara County and the Channel Islands and looking at the differences there. And so I was, again, going to grad school again, I had with the company, I was still working on the same project for the most part, but I was also working for another company because I had decided that my thesis, my archaeology thesis was on a site in Santa Barbara, the actual city of Santa Barbara. It was the it was the village, the main village that was there. sohiton And I fell in love with Santa Barbara and I decided I wanted to be there someday. I wanted to live there and bring my kids there someday. And so I made a concerted effort to to put my name out there to different companies that had
00:34:02
Speaker
offices in Santa Barbara. And I got a as needed position with one of them and started doing funnel analysis for them. And I was able to do that in my kitchen, they would let me take the collection with me a certain part of the collection, I would work at the lab at the school, um and sometimes at home, and it would do this, you know, at night while my kids were sleeping. And so I was working for that original company and working for this other company and there was ah and that other company really wasn't doing any monitoring or any kind of technician work for them. I was only doing funnel analysis for the most part. The other company I was working for, I was still doing, I had moved up. I was managing crews. We had shifted from ah monitoring ah soil sampling. There were like 6,000 borings that occurred over ah almost 6,000 acre
00:34:52
Speaker
Area and so that you know lasted a few years and then we did surveys and of the entire area and which sounds a little backwards, but. You would actually do the survey 1st, but there's reasons behind why we that happened. And so we did surveys and and did a phase 1. And so I was involved in, I was actually the lead photographer and we ended up having 170 sites that had to be mapped the old fashioned way with the tape and compass. And so I came up with a a legend that was in a method that was used for every single site, which was a really neat opportunity because this is one of the and most terrific sites or complex of sites in Southern California, including one of the most
00:35:40
Speaker
incredible rock art sites there is in North America. And so ah was able we were able to start from the beginning. I i had suggested this to my supervisor at the time. I said, what about? He goes, your maps are amazing. And I'm like, and but this was only a two couple sites in. a couple cites any I'm like, well, when why don't we what do you think about let's just have a convention of how we do every single site and all maps have to look the same and so that's what we ended up doing and it really we ended up finding like 170 sites which we didn't know at the time that was going to happen but it ended up being a really good a good thing in the end and so i started
00:36:19
Speaker
training people on how to map correctly and so now that kind of carried over into my graduate and then graduate degree and into my I'm sorry my graduate the end of my graduate degree for archaeology in the beginning of my graduate degree in GIS and so it was a really awesome opportunity to use my skills and to grow my skills in a practical way on this site and so I was, yes, essentially managing crews, the survey. I actually was early on doing that with monitoring. They needed people, they had a lot of projects and and I was steady and dependable and and worked hard. And so I was put in charge of um certain tasks on the site and various tasks on the site so that the the overall supervisor didn't have to worry about whether or not things were going to happen correctly. so
00:37:10
Speaker
that gave me some experience from a managerial perspective on a large site with other disciplines. I just I can't imagine having a better first job. It really did help build a lot of skill set, a lot of skills for me moving forward in my in my career. And so then when that that project slowed down or at least the archaeology aspect of the project slow down not you know mitigation happened later but there was a time in between and when that happened i i actually decided when my son was going into high school i said you know what i need
00:37:45
Speaker
To have a, I mean, if I'm going to make a move to Santa Barbara, this is it. I did not want to move my, my son halfway through his, his high school career. I wanted him to enjoy having a full four years at one school. And so I went to the person, I was my supervisor at that other company in Santa Barbara. And I said, You know, I said, can I have a full time job? And he was like, he made it happen. So I got a full time job, a salary job. And so I, you know, left the other job, which was winding down anyway and gave my notice to the other company. They were happy for me and I moved on. And and that's what I literally, we moved in the week before my son started school and my daughter started her in an elementary school. And that was the beginning of me in Santa Barbara.
00:38:34
Speaker
How long what was your career since then? yeah How long have you been in Santa Barbara and what have you been doing since that job? So I've been in Santa Barbara about 12 years. i i am I was at that company until just a few months ago. There were some things that happened. My boss, who had hired me, actually ended up leaving the company. And so did the other person that was working and a few others. And it ended up just being me and a few of the ASNEs that we had on on staff. And so this is an engineering company. so
00:39:08
Speaker
cultural was just one aspect of all the other services that were provided. And so the cultural resource practice director at the time was looking for somebody else to replace who was my boss. And and so in in the interim, I was managing everything. And I asked if I could have that opportunity. And and he was very supportive. He's like, yes, let's let's let's see how this works out. And actually, he was I think he was already kind of going that direction. But Maybe he was just kind of waiting for me to to ask. But so I was given this this opportunity to manage this regional practice. And, you know, i'd I had learned a lot from my predecessor and, you know, was always asking for new opportunities.
00:39:49
Speaker
and which he usually gave me and um so i was even though you know sometimes and i tell my kids this is that you know when you have an opportunity that's presented to you cannot wait until you think you're ready for it you sometimes you just have to take advantage of that opportunity and move forward and you will find a way to be appropriate for that role and so i I learned and grew in the role that I was given and as I grew in the role that I i was given success happened we did very well and then I was given the oversight of our busiest office.
00:40:26
Speaker
that was down in the l LA area. So now I was managing a very large area of California from the cultural resource perspective and managing more people. And then that definitely, you know, that that definitely seasoned me further as a professional and as a manager and a supervisor. I have i a always have had a passion for training others and helping others in their career. And so this ah allowed me the opportunity to do that. I'd also been you know established some really good relationships with both agencies and clients. And so I was able to build our practice and build our business to be right quite a bit larger than it was when before I was in charge.
00:41:09
Speaker
and And then just recently I moved to a company that actually was one of my clients for 10 years, actually. And um we had just a great working relationship. I really enjoy their company and the way that they look at business and and how they grow business and how they grow professionals. And and so i they offered me an opportunity and to begin their cultural resource practice. And and so that that's carries me to today. And that's what I'm doing now, is I'm developing a nationwide corporate wide, it's actually but eventually will be international as well, but a corporate wide practice for this large engineering company. And it's just been, it's been a terrific and very busy five months so far. Wow, it's quite a career. I mean, not over yet either Heather. You know, that's why I encourage people, you cannot, and and that probably
00:42:06
Speaker
I think I'm glad that we're doing this because I have a perspective. Sometimes I think that's different than other people on the on the show. Not always different. We think a lot of alike, but there are some differences. And I really believe you have to be your own advocate in this business, in any business. You have to be your own advocate. And if you're not, you're it's going to be a harder road for you. It is a hard road when you're on your own advocate because then you have more work, right? But it's work that you have pursued. You have to go after these opportunities. And sometimes you're the one who has to go and identify the opportunity and go and make that happen. And you can't give up. And you're going to get a lot of no's. And no's teach you just as many as yeah as much as yeses do. And in fact, so and they teach you more.
00:42:53
Speaker
but many times and than the yeses do, but you have to you have to forge forward. You can't sit back in this business and wait for people to make it happen for you, for somebody to identify you and your talent. You have to see, you have to have goals and you have to see what your talents are. You have to also understand what your weaknesses are and you it's your job to be your own advocate and to make things happen for you in this business. So we're we're pretty much probably running out of time, but I just wanted to throw out one last question to sort of wrap this all up. And that is, you're looking at sort of hindsight, your full career or careers, I should say it's the multiple careers, looking back
00:43:36
Speaker
Is there anything new in hindsight you would change? Would you have gotten into archaeology sooner? Or are you you know would you have done hockey longer? or you know well Is there anything there you sort of in hindsight you would do a little bit different? Wow, that's a good question. I should also say the answer could be no as well. You know, you're sort of pushing those sort of questions. It's like making you think if you need to answer that. and then Yes, I would. but You don't have to. it's just yeah It's just something I was thinking about.
00:44:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, I had alluded to it earlier that refereeing has absolutely helped me be a better archaeologist and a better manager and a better business person. And so I would never, I would not have changed that experience. I, you know, there were times I think if I were to change anything, it would be how I look. at no's, how I look at what I perceived as failures, which they were failures. And there's nothing wrong with that. you You have to have failures in life in order to learn and in order to have an impetus behind that next step. And sometimes that fork in the road is not a choice. Sometimes that fork in the road, the choice is made for you. And it's what you do with that choice, how you respond to that choice that determines your success or otherwise.
00:44:57
Speaker
And with hockey, you know, I was very focused. I became, I was the very first female referee in professional hockey. I'm still basically the only female, well, there's one in in Europe, but I was the first one. It took a long time for any other female official to to come up in hockey from a professional sense. And, you know, at the time, this is early nineties, it was It was sad for me. I wanted to go to the Olympics. there were paul There was politics. I should have gone to the Olympics. I was the best one for the job. But it didn't happen. And it was just, you know, i at the time, you know sometimes it would be an embarrassment for me for me to say I didn't go to the Olympics. and But it taught me more, I think, not having gone than it would if I had. I see a lot of people that have gone to the Olympics. And um and a lot of times when you
00:45:50
Speaker
When you reach the pinnacle of something and you reach your goal, a lot of times people just sit back and they're like, I reached that. That's the one thing I can say I did. And it kind of takes that drive out of you in some ways. And because I had that no, and I had other nos, in hockey and other areas. It was, it kept me hungry and it kept me um driven. And it kept me actually to my best use, which is where I'm at now. I do think that everything that I learned in all these other aspects, the getting my teacher's credential and having a focus on
00:46:24
Speaker
helping others find their own professional, you know, in a hands-on career like upholstery where you can actually have your own business or it's different than most locations. You could be very entrepreneurial with it. So that helped me being a businessman. Yes, do I work for another for a company? I don't have my own company. But in order to be a really good business person in a company, you have to have an entrepreneurial sense. and And so that that helped me. So every single step along the way has helped me. And I really believe that I was and i was meant to be an archaeologist. I believe I was meant to be in this moment right now that I am at right now. And I believe that I was meant to have some of the struggles I had and in previous careers and in a previous company, even the company I was just at. I was meant to have those struggles so that I would be pushed to move into this next stage of my career. and so that I could take those lessons that I've learned to help others and and to just be a better version of myself professionally and personally. So I don't think that I have any regrets. Are there things that I've wished I had looked at differently that I hadn't allowed myself to wallow too long in and be too disappointed or beat myself up? Yeah, but it's what bred in me what I needed.
00:47:44
Speaker
in order to be successful at this point in my life. So how's that for an answer? That's brilliant. I think that's the perfect way to end this episode. So thank you, Heather. Thank you listeners as well. And we'll see you all in the field. Thanks for listening, everyone.
00:48:06
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www.arcpodnet.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use the contact form on the website or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at arcpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions. We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks to everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye.
00:48:51
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at w www.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.