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253- Indoor cats or outdoor cats?
110 Plays10 days ago
Amongst vegans, things don't get much more divisive than this question. Even Cats UK were sitting on the fence https://www.cats.org.uk/media/1023/eg12_indoor_and_outdoor_cats.pdf Nonetheless, Shane, Julie & Ant try to approach this question in as balanced way as possible. But which side of the fence will we end up on?!
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Julie, Shane & Anthony
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Transcript
Episode Introduction and Podcast History
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody. Now, what kind of vegan keeps a cat stuck indoors 24-7? Well, I'm Anthony and for this episode of Vegan Talk, I'm also joined by Shane and Julie and we're going to be talking all things cats, indoors and outdoors.
00:00:19
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butt is used for. Brrr! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:31
Speaker
Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? True education. younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems I think.
00:00:43
Speaker
What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice has occurred. connection with another as long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:01:02
Speaker
cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision hey everyone this is shane welcome to vegan talk thank you so much for joining us today Hi everybody, Julie here. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk. This is the time of the week when we have a bit of a deeper chat about one particular topic and we've done this quite a few times now. I think we've got over a hundred previous episodes that you can find on your podcast feed on a variety of topics and But never really go out of date, just everything to do with animal rights topics. Have a wee look. Indeed. Do it.
00:01:45
Speaker
Do it. Even if you've listened to one before, I often find that after a year I've forgotten what everyone said, so I can just go back, you know, 18 months ago and listen to a whole new episode. I've got infinite enough of the falafel forever now.
00:01:58
Speaker
Anyway.
Indoor vs. Outdoor Cats: Vegan Perspectives
00:01:59
Speaker
We're talking today, this episode, about the quandary of whether to keep a cat indoors or letting them go outdoors.
00:02:11
Speaker
But through a vegan lens, obviously, most folk who they might say they own a cat or they live with a cat, um are not those who would identify as vegan.
00:02:23
Speaker
But it's still something that's come up for us in previous discussions about companion animals, living with animals, and there seems to be something about cats that's not shared with dogs, which we might say is a sort of equally popular animal for folk to share their lives with, where this quandary doesn't seem to come up. To start us off, we have got from Cats Protection UK, there is a document called Indoor and Outdoor Cats. We've put a link in the show notes if you want to look through it. It's got lots of interesting red and white cartoons on it. I'm going to summarise it now, and then we'll get into Shane's and Julie's thoughts about the subject. I think it's fair to say that both Shane and Julie have shared their lives with lots of cats.
00:03:11
Speaker
I have not, so I'm going to be the ah useful idiot who asks obvious questions, but just in case there are listeners who also don't live with cats. That's our plan anyway. So this document from Cats Protection UK, it acknowledges that many cats like going outside, some don't.
00:03:30
Speaker
Cats have lots of instincts, that lend themselves to going outdoors. Naturally, that would seem to be a natural behaviour, but there might be lots of reasons why as a custodian of a cat, not going to use the phrase cat owner, as a custodian of a cat, you might decide, well, actually that might not be best for them either temporarily or throughout the whole of their
Risks and Benefits of Outdoor Cats
00:03:57
Speaker
life. That might be due to living in an urban area,
00:04:00
Speaker
that's very built up it might be for their own health there might be certain conditions that mean that that's not suitable for them they also mentioned something that i hadn't thought of is that in many built-up areas there's quite a high density of cats per square meter per square mile or what have you Which means that because cats can be quite territorial, then you're actually putting them in a position where they're going to be experiencing a lot of stress, potentially aggression, conflict, associated injuries, maybe be associated health issues as well in terms of anxiety.
00:04:36
Speaker
picking up illnesses and things like that. They cite outdoor benefits as the fact that they're naturally inquisitive. They might naturally want to hunt, even if they're well fed. It's not necessarily about sustaining themselves.
00:04:51
Speaker
Having intellectual stimulation, maybe intellectual is the wrong word. I've inserted that. That wasn't from Cats Protection UK. But, you know, exploring the world, exercise, obviously, and as well,
00:05:04
Speaker
they might be spooked by something in their home environment temporarily. So actually having an escape could actually be a useful thing. The risks that they cite are injury, either from other cats or indeed on roads. And there's an interesting reflection on the fact that consistently busy roads, strangely, might actually be safer for cats than than those that are typically quiet, but then might have a sudden influx or just ah a car that's not expected. Disease, parasites could be other threats to cats that are going outside.
00:05:43
Speaker
Poisons, unfortunately, you know, we do use toxic substances in very non-vegan ways and We could argue in ways that have nothing to do with animal rights that cats could come into contact with. And sometimes cats go missing. So in in terms of them not being able to return to their home or the home that you've decided is their home, that is a risk if they go out
Keeping Indoor Cats Stimulated
00:06:06
Speaker
too. They do in the article talk about different ways if you are keeping a cat at home, things that you can do to keep them stimulated, keep them safe, keep them exercised, ways that you might give them access to a garden space. If you're lucky enough to have a garden
00:06:23
Speaker
without completely caging them in, but sort of encouraging them not to leave. If there are those threats of high density of cats or busy roads, things like that.
00:06:35
Speaker
I think I'll leave it there in terms of summarizing things, because like I say, it's a pretty accessible PDF that we've put a link in the show notes for, and let's get some response from Julie and Shane. Julie, are you happy to go first? What was your response to just to this article first?
00:06:52
Speaker
Well, I found it quite interesting. I'll just be upfront, I think, and say that I not a fan of the concept of indoor-only cats. And apologies to anybody listening who has of a happy, healthy indoor-only cat. But I instinctively find that problematic. and And so when they were making the case for an indoor only cat, then they were kind of losing me a little bit. To give it a context, though, I had cats in my life for 40 years. And I had a cat that it did exactly what you were describing the scenario with a quiet road. I lived in a very quiet cul-de-sac and within eight weeks of him taking in a rescue cat, he was killed outright on the road outside my house. And that put me off having an outdoor cat because it really was, you know, i found him dead and everything. It really was a disturbing experience. And yeah, I was grieving horribly for a long time and ah I didn't want another wee catty to be put at risk. So I then went back to the rescue place and took in a cat who was of mature age, who'd never been outside and showed no signs of wishing to go outside. and tried to have an indoor cat as a result so I did try to do it but after a year decided that he wanted to go outside because i I didn't push him to do one thing or another i would open the door and let the door open and Yeah.
00:08:52
Speaker
became an outdoor beast cat And if he had to be shut in for any reason, like I moved house after that and he needed shut in for the first two weeks to get used to the new house, he was quite you know frustrated. So I haven't had an indoor cat for more than a year before. And having seen how he thrived and how much he enjoyed then experiencing the outdoors at such an old age and how he adapted and everything.
00:09:18
Speaker
It's made me question if indoor cats have actually really genuinely given the choice and the the kind of ability to gain the confidence, whether they wouldn't just choose to go out, you know. So that was where I parted company with that in little document, I'm afraid. no that's No, that's absolutely fine. That's fine. Thank you, Julie. Shane, what do you think?
Challenges of Urban Cat Ownership
00:09:42
Speaker
So when I read the document, I thought, okay, well, this is useless because it just gave one side and then it gave the other side. And I i would prefer something that took a position on it. so I mean, they were they were very diplomatic, weren't they? noticed there was a a couple of points where they said, some people believe that dot, dot, dot, dot. dot And it's like, come on, your cat's protection UK, like pick a lane. Right. that's That's kind of how I felt about it. I thought, okay, great.
00:10:09
Speaker
If you just want to read a milquetoast article, go for it So, well, I disagree with Julie. I'll just say that. um i have a lot of reasons. um I guess, first of all, because, i don't know, it's hard to know where to start. um First of all, I think because I live in a very urban area.
00:10:32
Speaker
And I think that you've got to take into consideration whether you live in the city or the countryside. If you live in a ah more rural area, it may be more feasible to allow your ah the cats in your care outside access.
00:10:49
Speaker
Also, I think you have to think about, do you live in a house or do you live in an apartment or as you guys say flat, or do you live in a condo? If you live in an an apartment and you you're on the third floor, you can't really let your cat out. Now, I know people who have let their cats on balconies, and I also know many people whose cats have died from falling off those balconies. So I think that those situations are also, so should we say that nobody who lives in an apartment should ever have a cat.
00:11:16
Speaker
The situation also in Texas and in a lot of the southern states is one of horrendous cat overpopulation. And I think the issue that a lot of times like northern areas and maybe like you know, places like Canada and Europe, they don't understand is that because we have such a temperate climate, the breeding season is all year round.
00:11:40
Speaker
So let's say you have a couple of cats who live outside. um i think a cat can have kittens at like six, months of age and maybe they have three litters a year.
00:11:51
Speaker
And if you've got three of those, you know, cats from those litters, then now you've got, you can do the, I can't do the math, but you can do the math. It's crazy. When I first moved to this um little area where I live now in Houston, um it was in 2011 and I could drive down the street. I'd go to the gym very early in the morning, like five in the morning. I could drive down the street and I could literally count 17 to 22
00:12:16
Speaker
feral stray cats just on my block, just on my little block. And um during the pandemic, some of my neighbors and I got together and we um like bought um those cages that you can trap cats. And we partnered with an organization and we went and went throughout the neighborhood and trapped cats, neutered them, returned them outside. And um the situation has improved so much now because there aren't kittens being born. But of course, also because those outdoor cats have died because, you know, studies show, like I have um this study that I looked at from the University of California, Davis, that shows that indoor cats are going to live about 15 to 17 years where the life expectancy for outdoor cats is only two to five years. And this is average, obviously. I'm sure there's outdoor cats that live longer than that and indoor cats that live less time. But so if I'm, you know, given a cat in my care, I feel like I need to you know,
Impact of Free-Roaming Cats on Wildlife
00:13:13
Speaker
care for that cat and
00:13:15
Speaker
obviously 15 to 17 years of life is more than two to five years of life. Although I think that you could argue about the quality be of that indoor life, which we could talk more about. Gosh, there's there's so there's so much to think about, isn't there? And like like I said at the top, like i've I'm not somebody who's ever really had a cat in my life. like my My nanny's always lived with a cat or two. So ah you know I've come into contact with them. But ah a lot of the difficulty here seems to stem from the fact that it's a non-vegan world, isn't it? And actually...
00:13:48
Speaker
you know, in in terms of some of those challenges to cats being outdoor cats, cats that enjoy the outdoors frequently. If we were to design a vegan world, many, if not all of those challenges and obstacles, I imagine in that designing of a world, we'd we'd be eradicating those or minimizing those or or putting things in place, but there they're not there, are they?
00:14:15
Speaker
which Which makes it so much more difficult. But let's talk about it even from a vegan perspective, because like I have a study, a 2013 study by the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. And they estimated that free roaming cats kill between 1.3 and 4.0 billion birds mammals.
00:14:37
Speaker
and between six point three and twenty two point three billion mammals And 77% of this is a study from the University of Georgia, they found that 77% of wildlife caught by cats is either eaten or left at the site of capture. So even though people think, oh, well, my cat's not out there killing animals, you don't know, because a lot of times they just, you know, they just hunting, they're killing, because that's, that's what they do, they're maybe not really hungry.
00:15:03
Speaker
Also, they found that the study by the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute also found that bird parents, they are they've been shown to avoid returning to their nests and that I guess also other wildlife to their dens because if cats are around. So they find that a feline in the area reduced the growth rate of young birds by approximately 40%.
00:15:24
Speaker
So looking at a a at like all the animals, free roaming cats are maybe, maybe, not the best vegan option if we think about wildlife or other animals out there.
00:15:38
Speaker
A free roaming cat is an animal rights option, though, because animals belong out of doors. And actually, in my world, animals belong away from people and people's interference and dominance.
Philosophy on Pet Ownership
00:15:55
Speaker
And i think in a really fully vegan world, would we have any so-called, I hate the word pet,
00:16:03
Speaker
I hate it. I don't even like the concept of a pet animal and, have you got, I've got a cat, I've got this, I've got that. It's like a, you know, ah a commodity, like something you buy and, you know, it's like an accessory in your home or in your life or whatever. I think in a fully vegan world, we would ditch all that. We would enjoy the company of animals that were free in the world and our little you know consensual interactions with them without confining them in our homes and doing all that my answer to the people who do live in high-rise flats it's a shame that people have to live in places like that it's a shame that humans have to live in them never mind animals who are much more desiring of nature and the outside world even than humans i think Because, I mean, a cat i mean a human has some kind of element of choice about living in that kind of environment. The cat has none. If you acquire some poor little feline from somewhere, yeah that doesn't have a choice. And if you shut it in your house 24-7, it definitely, at least if it's free roaming, if it doesn't like the food you're giving it, it can go somewhere else. But if you do live in a high rise flat, you can have interactions with cats without possessing one and taking one and trapping it in your flat. You could sponsor a cat in a rescue centre. You could go and volunteer at a cat rescue place or you could go and feed your pals cat when they're away and just get your cat cat.
00:17:36
Speaker
interactions that way you know maybe just don't have a cat if you live in an area where it's awful for them and too dangerous for them to roam about I had a the experience of a cat in my care was catnapped by my neighbours and it put me off taking a cat into this neighbourhood to care for it you know out of a rescue place because the same thing could happen the same person still lives down the street and and the cat that was in my care came to harm in his home unfortunately not not fatally but did come to some harm through what he was feeding him So, and yeah, that that's been enough of a deterrent for me to decide that actually where I live at the moment, it's not suitable for me to give, ah as I would give, free roaming choice. I've got a cat flap in my front door still. So any cat that was in my life has always the choice twenty four seven to go in or out. But I wouldn't do it living here. I would just live without a cat because there is somebody down the road who feeds them stuff that makes them ill and doesn't see that it's the wrong thing to do. So, um yeah, do you just have to live within your limits, to you know, I think.
00:18:57
Speaker
I agree with you in principle, Julie. I also know Paul reasonably well have done for quite a few years and he feels a pull, but I don't feel it at all. I have to say maybe maybe I'm a ah stony, cold hearted vegan, but,
00:19:15
Speaker
he feels a ah pull to to foster, you know, rescue
Ethics of Pet Adoption and Ownership
00:19:20
Speaker
animals. And that's a difficulty, isn't it? Because actually there's an interesting quandary there in terms of, I completely hear what you're saying, Julie, in terms of like, In an ideal world, we we say, well, I've got the resources for this. I've not got the resources for this. And then there's somebody in need.
00:19:40
Speaker
And let's be honest, lots of us will feel appalled to be like, well, if I don't intervene here, then they're toast. that's That's that. And there might be an argument there that that imperfect situation is better than the really crappy situation. And ah I mean, I i know that kind of echoes part of your experience, Shane. Yeah, that's what I was going to say that I think part of the point I was trying to make with the overpopulation situation here Is that every day lists of animals on the euthanasia list at these shelters go out, and I mean just I don't know what the numbers are, but I must be in the millions of animals that just in Houston are euthanized every year so.
00:20:29
Speaker
Just to say like, well, live in an apartment, I'm i'm not going to get a cat. But there's so many cats that need a home. And there's cats that are just sitting in these shelters in a little cage all their life. So, i you know, i i wish i wish more people would adopt cats. Now, having said that, I worked at a rescue. I was the person who for like four years approved people to adopt or not.
00:20:55
Speaker
And part of the application and most rescues that that I know anyway, and this in this part of the country will say, are you going to let your cat outside? And if people said they were going to let their cat out outside, we denied them.
00:21:08
Speaker
And I see people getting very angry about that, but that was the policy. We were not going to let them outside because um we're not going to adopt somebody who let them outside because cats get hit.
00:21:19
Speaker
they They get hit by cars. They're poisoned by people or other things that they eat. I've had people who came back and said, oh, we adopted this cat. And then, oh, we let we let it outside and we you know was eaten by a coyote. There are coyotes in Houston, which that's fine. The coyotes deserve to be in Houston, but it's not the coyotes fault they the cat. It's the person's fault who let them out. Cats disappear, they come back injured. And, you know, so I said, yeah i was, I would always be angry at those people because I'd say, well, we adopted this cat to you and you said you weren't going to let him outside. And then you did. And then of course, if the foster who has maybe raised this cat since they were a baby, maybe stayed up all night bottle feeding this, this cat, they're upset because, you know, they've entrusted the organization to adopt the cat to somebody who's going to care for them.
00:22:07
Speaker
So I do understand about, about cats wanting to be outside. Mine do not seem to want to be outside. They, I have four cats and I do think that it's hard for a cat to be the only cat. It's nice if they can have like another little friend. And I also think that if you're going to keep a cat inside, yeah, you need to have toys for them. You need to engage and play with them. You need to have entertainments for them. I think if people have the ability, they can create a catio.
00:22:34
Speaker
which is an outdoor area that's enclosed. Because again, if somebody said, well, I'm just going to let the cat on my and out in my yard or a garden, as you guys say, we would deny them. If they had a dog door, we'd deny them because the idea was to keep the cat safe and not to let them outside.
00:22:52
Speaker
So that's kind of where I come from on it. There's so much to think about, isn't there? I'm feeling really stupid. I died i guess I've just not i've just not had... the The pleasure of of of Cats really being in my life. I mean, wonder, Julie, like it at the moment, you have sheep that are in your life very intensely.
00:23:14
Speaker
Is there any crossover in in terms of like the places that your mind is going to, the ethics that you apply to your kind of worldview on this? Or is it a completely different Venn diagram with no overlap at all? and No, I think there are crossovers and certainly before the sheep arrived into the field and everything, I did have a really sleepless night where thought, I'm doing the wrong thing here. I'm containing them, I'm putting them in a field, they're not having a choice over this. Maybe they should be, you know, maybe I should be, because obviously they couldn't stay where they were at all. and In some cases, they were on a one way ticket to their death. So, yeah, I thought I wonder if I should actually just be hiring a little trailer and taking them to a big moor or somewhere wild, you know, and just letting them go.
00:24:20
Speaker
but given that they were sort of not really equipped to handle that entirely, you know, they're just, the way that certain sheep have been bred, they are become dependent on human intervention for some of their healthcare care needs, unfortunately. So, yeah, it was a really tricky one. So I suppose I just...
00:24:45
Speaker
absolutely do my best to be as freeing you know not to be freeing to be as to give them as much liberty and as many choices and things as you know as i possibly possibly can I mean, it was funny, the other day I had to, because they need to be out of their usual field for 24 hours once a year, so they go into another field. So when they were due to go back, I didn't, you know, shake a bucket or lead them or, you know, in any way. I just opened the gate of the field they were in and I opened the gate of the field they normally live in. And they're quite, at you can't see one field from each other. They literally just put themselves home. Yeah.
00:25:33
Speaker
you know, and i didn't need to persuade them. I didn't need to cajole or tempt them with food or do, and there was no food waiting for them in their usual field. They just literally just went, oh yeah, and we know where we're going and this is where we usually live. And in they went, I didn't even shut the gate behind them. They just, you know, they just did that. So I kind of take some comfort from that, that they see that as their home And certainly in the Scottish islands, you see that sheep have a heft.
00:26:05
Speaker
So they adopt an area of an island that has no fencing whatsoever. But that's their little territory and it's quite small. And the ewe... sheep teaches the lamb the extent of that heft herself she shows them whatever natural landmarks that it has and a sheep won't go off their heft it's like there's an invisible electric fence there so sheep kind of like familiarity and being in one spot and a bit of safety and security and I am comforted by that because otherwise I wouldn't sleep at night thinking I had deprived them of lots of choices and liberties. But what I have done is given them safety and continuity and care. But it's not perfect.
00:26:52
Speaker
In an ideal world, I would own a great big remote, huge moorland and I would have the the responsibility for the care of a small group of sheep that were just roaming about on that. But I don't have those resources. and I admit that.
00:27:09
Speaker
Well, I think our next COFI campaign is to raise enough money to buy you that um huge expanse of moorland. So i think I think, you know, hope hopefully enough people sign up for that. Shane, can I ask... Even if they were there, they would stay in one very small little spot, probably. Yes, yes. It sounds like you're right.
00:27:29
Speaker
Shane, can I ask, do do you have reservations yourself? I mean, like Julie's described there like her ideal and then kind of like in practice there... are things that can sometimes be like oh gosh that's not perfect there's a bit of a reservation there initially like do you experience that you obviously you're coming at coming at it from a different point of view but i'm wondering if there are sometimes nagging thoughts or no I don't really have any sorry I think what because some of what Julie said where she was talking about how the animals have been bred and obviously cats have been domesticated and they have in such a way that they are used to being
Importance of Indoor Cats for Health and Safety
00:28:10
Speaker
around people. They want to be around people. This is not to say all of them.
00:28:14
Speaker
So I think that because that's the world that we live in that we need to adjust to that world and provide the best care we can for the cats in that world. And there's,
00:28:26
Speaker
nothing that makes me angrier than when I see a story. Well, there are things that make me angrier, but one thing that makes me angry is when I see a story about somebody who's been like, oh, well, I can't keep my cat anymore. So I just drove him out to the woods and let him go there because the cats who've been inside or who've been, you know, living with people, they don't know how to catch food. They, they, my cats would be lost. I also care of for, with my neighbors, five feral cats.
00:28:53
Speaker
And these cats, you know, they, even they, we feed them. So they probably don't know how to catch other animals. I mean, sometimes I'll look out and there's like a squirrel, like eating their food and they're just sitting there watching like, oh, I hope the squirrel moves soon so I can eat. Um, so even they don't, but I do see them like when they cross the street and stuff that they are very, um, they're like smart about it. You know, they kind of know to look and and everything. Cause they probably they've grown up that way. And two of them now will kind of let me, uh, touch them. They'll, they'll come and like rub on me when I'm feeding. They want to be petted and everything, but, um, the other ones don't. And that's, that's totally fine. I'm not trying to bring them indoors, but the ones that I have rescued, um, yeah, I feel like it's my responsibility to keep them
00:29:37
Speaker
safe and I don't feel any reservations about the life that they have. I think they have a good life. And I want to just say one other thing, another reason for keeping your, your, your cats inside, because you're going to have a lot more visibility and and ideas of what's going on with them. So just recently my cat, one of my kitties, Mickey, um who is almost 14, she was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel syndrome. And I don't think that if she was outdoors for most of the time that I would have noticed anything was wrong with her. And they, she might've gone to the vet and,
00:30:14
Speaker
they would have been like, okay, it looks fine and and gone on. But because i so around her so much, I could see, you know, that there were things that were were not right with her that had changed. And there were small things because this isn't a very severe case. So there were small things. So I think that that's also part of it that, you know, they're in our care and and to give them the best care is you, proximity is part of that. You're politely saying because you're scooping up her poop every day or his poop every day. You're seeing what's going on. And also and also she was she was vomiting, you know, and I think if she was outside, she might do she might have done that outside. Yeah. Oh, no, take it from me.
00:30:51
Speaker
Even with a cat who has full outdoor access, if they can find something that you treasure, like a pair of shoes, they'll come in from miles around to vomit on that. Don't.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, maybe makes you they do go for the carpet every time. I don't know why.
00:31:12
Speaker
Well, you know, it's a it's a a good plug, really, for companies that sell vomit color colored carpets, really, it? That's the best way to do things. Thank you both for those two different perspectives. But like, it I think it says a lot for the philosophy of of animal rights and veganism, but actually that there are things that are not black and white. And it's important to be able to hear the nuances of things and yeah could couldn't have done that without the two of you um bringing what you've brought today so thank you so much listeners i'm sure you're going to have opinions on this too i'm sure many of you listening will have cats in your lives um and even if you don't you will have perspectives too there's lots of ways that we like to hear from you you're going hear our email addresses and stuff in a minute. But we've also got our social media channels that are up to full speed and doing lots at the moment.
Engaging with Listeners on Social Media
00:32:09
Speaker
You can get us on Facebook, you can get us on Instagram. Shane, remind me of the handle. I do know it, but I don't want to get it wrong and see you've got it written down.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yes, it is enough of the falafel, all one word on Facebook and Instagram. And you can go on there and you can tell me how wrong I am about for keeping my cats indoors.
00:32:30
Speaker
and Don't solicit trolls. That's just a silly thing to do. If they're listening to the podcast, they're probably not trolls. You'd hope, you'd hope. But we welcome your feedback is what I'm saying. We welcome the interaction, your comments and feedback.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Goodness, we're all learning and there's all sorts of different experiences to share. So social media is a real nice direct way to do so. Like we read comments, we read the DMs and we do love getting emails too. And you can find us at the following.
00:33:04
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:33:23
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Thank you again, Julie and Shane. Really useful stuff to have those insights, never having had a cat in my life. um And I'm sure that folk who do have cats in their lives will definitely have got value from that. If you're still listening to us, everybody, um there's a good chance that you like and appreciate what we do. You'll have probably heard this a few times over the last month or so, but we do have a Ko-Fi page. where if you are able and wanting to contribute to the project financially, you can do, you can do a one-time donation from as little as a pound or a dollar, just as a one-time thing or a recurring thing. There's some nice little perks if you do it in a recurring way. You absolutely don't have to, but all the money goes towards things like new microphones to make things sound better. And once we've got a couple of those for folks that need them, then we'll do things like spread the podcast wider and things like that.
00:34:24
Speaker
And maybe more perks will be on the way too. You'll only find out if you join our little Ko-Fi squad. Thank you to everyone who has done already. Julie, when's our next recording? The next Enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out on Monday the 9th of March. It's going to be a Vegan Week episode. So that's our usual roundup of the week's vegan and animal rights news. And don't ask me who's on it because it doesn't say on my little list here.
00:34:57
Speaker
That's because when we're recording this on the 31st of January, we haven't decided who's going to be on it yet. It's a surprise. Yay. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Julie and Anthony for all your contribution. And thanks again to everyone for listening.
00:35:13
Speaker
This is Shane and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:35:23
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
00:35:34
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:36:04
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:36:25
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from