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254- The Sound of the Underground: People ditching pork!
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The latest Animal Justice Project ad campaign is set to be seen by nearly 6 million people on London's Underground train system...and the pork industry aren't happy! "Emotional Blackmail" they call it. Well, listen to this episode and decide for yourself. This week it's Ant, Julie & Paul analysing the stories, of which we have 9 from the last 7 days of animal rights & vegan news.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
To help us keep improving the show, you can head over to https://ko-fi.com/ENOUGHOFTHEFALAFEL and make a small financial contribution towards our running costs. Only if you want to and can afford it of course ;)
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This week's stories:
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/thousands-sign-commissioner-animals-petition
https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/health/vegetarians-lower-risk-of-cancer-study/
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/devon-somerset-staghounds-researching-deer-to-death/
https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/pigs/pig-industry-responds-to-london-underground-ad-campaign?fw_source=home_livestock
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/helsinki-puloet-parempaa-meat-dairy-plant-based-food-policy-2030/
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/italy-plant-based-food-market-vegan-sales-growth-demand/
https://www.peta.org/news/michelin-green-guide-wins-for-animals/
https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/health/doctors-call-science-based-dietary-guidelines/
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/blended-meat-balanced-proteins-market-hybrid-investment
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Welcome to Vegan Week
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, it's Anthony, it's Julie and Paul here, ready with your weekly dose of vegan and animal rights news. We're delighted you're joining us again or for the first time. But anyway, that is enough of the falafel. It is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:18
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your flour-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:30
Speaker
Should I call the medium and say, hi, sorry. True education, the younger generation are getting know how brutal these practices are. That leaves a lot of pizza delivery companies in problems with things.
00:00:41
Speaker
What is this? What kind of movie is this? It's comedy gold, maybe. Any form of social injustice has been... another as long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:01:00
Speaker
i cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision hello everyone this is paul welcome to everyone listening to the show and thank you for being here Hello everybody, it's Julie here This is our news show, Vegan Week, where we look through vegan and animal rights news from the last week or so.
Animal Welfare in New Zealand
00:01:21
Speaker
But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:29
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:40
Speaker
Okay, we are starting our show this week in New Zealand. it's I'm just going to repeat again. It's lovely having you with us every single time. it's It's a wonderful little community we've got here. We're really grateful. Anyway, Anthony, back to the news, back to the news. Enough of this gratitude because thousands have been signing for a Commissioner for Animals in New Zealand. This is a petition that has got more than 31,000 signatures,
00:02:06
Speaker
thousand signatures They want an independent commissioner for animals. Why? Well, the folk who've signed it are doing so because they think this will improve welfare for companion animals and farmed animals. The petition was taken to Parliament. There is a lovely picture of it being handed over to the Green Party's animal welfare spokesperson, Stephen Abel, who accepted it at Parliament. We've heard things about this sort of thing in the past, Julie, from other countries trees where they're saying, right, we need a commissioner or we need someone who is going to champion animal rights. There's lots of details in this story that we might get to go through. But what's what's your initial hunch on this sort of thing? Is it going to improve things for animals or not? Well, you know, my initial hunch is one of surprise, just sort of going back a bit to the start of this story, that 31,000 signatures is enough for the you know powers that be to take any notice. Because 31,000 signatures isn't a lot.
00:03:17
Speaker
in a country with a population of 5.3 million people, in Scotland that has a population of 5.5 million people or so, we need 100,000 signatures for our parliament to even consider debating an issue. So for them to be thinking, oh, well, you know, this is this is really it. We're, you know, we're really making a big, solid request that everybody's going to consider with 31,000 signatures is a surprise to me. Yes, all of these things are important steps forward if they get taken up and people's concerns about what happens with a companion and other animals in New Zealand, you know, it's absolutely justified because nobody at the moment has independent overall responsibility. There are all sort of different sections of the government that sort of have some kind of say in things. But as it's been pointed out in the article, profit and being on the side of the farmer is absolutely, you know, top of their list. And it says in the article, it seems impossible to pursue economic growth without some negative impact on the welfare of animals. Well, it's absolutely impossible to farm animals in any kind of a way without a massive negative impact on their welfare.
00:04:50
Speaker
So some of that kind of goes without saying. I think it's lovely that Steve Abel from the Greens is saying that he's wanted for years to establish a commissioner. But what he's saying is he wants a commissioner for animals to independently monitor and advocate for animal rights.
00:05:09
Speaker
Well, that's a different thing because that's not about making farming better. That's about making farming obsolete. Well, agriculture you know animal agriculture, I should say. So it's a wee bit of a tricky one. It is one of these situations where, as vegans, were if we're supporting it, which we are, we're kind of supporting second best, which is slightly bigger cages and slightly more this and more that. But still, you know, the bottom line being that animals are and kept captive in conditions that are suitable for
00:05:46
Speaker
production purposes rather than their instinctual needs so yeah it is it's a bit of a a cop well it's a huge compromise if you want a wee call to action on this if you go on to the commissioner for animals alliance website You can get a lot of information, proper good information about the campaign, not what you'll hear from me. And if you happen to live in New Zealand, there's a template there for you to email your MP on this issue and of course opportunities for all of us if we wish to do so to donate to the campaign.
00:06:25
Speaker
Absolutely. it's It's fabulous, like you say, that that these things are just being nudged up the agenda and independence from you know industry watchdogs that have just got a vested interest in looking after themselves has has got to be the priority, hasn't it? And that is loud and clear in this statement. So...
00:06:45
Speaker
Good luck to ah this campaign and we we do hope that it it can ultimately make a difference for animals. A nice positive story to start the show off with.
00:06:55
Speaker
Regular listeners will um be doing well to ah listening to this show because last week's show had ah quite a few not particularly positive stories, but we're putting that right this week. Wonderful Mark has edited this show for us and got all the stories together.
Controversies in Pig Farming
00:07:12
Speaker
for us. And indeed the next story, it comes from Farmers Weekly, but the headline, Pig Industry Responds to London Underground Ad Campaign. And this is the Animal Justice Project Campaign on the London um Underground ah subway train system in the capital of England. 22 large posters across 12 stations have been placed by the Animal Justice Project urging commuters to stop eating
00:07:45
Speaker
pig meat. Quite big, these posters, if anyone who's been on the underground will be able to imagine them, but they're two by three meters in size. There's the one that there is a picture of in this story. There is a pig in, ah don't know if it's a farrowing crate, but that's certainly a very, very restrictive setup that they've got in terms of their movement their liberty. There is also a description about another such advert where you've got a piglet placed next to a puppy with the caption, if she were a dog,
00:08:14
Speaker
we'd call it abuse. Understandably, Paul, the people of Farmers Weekly are not particularly happy about this. But I i thought, actually, they've they've given a lot of coverage, really, to the the story. They've they've not sought to shut it down, have they? they're They're providing a lot of the details amidst the rebuttals, but they're they're definitely publicising the campaign quite well, actually. Yeah, so I get another story going back to what Judy says around something put in place for production rather than animal welfare, regardless of what is suggested by big farmers here. You're quite right. One of the things I picked up on here, and I think we saw this in, can't remember if it was Farmers Weekly before or similar publication, but like you say, they do give a fair wedge of the article space to what the objection is. Which is, you know, I hate to say credit where credit's due, but it seems actually reasonably balanced for this sort of publication. So yeah, let's let's have a look at that. So yeah, this is um obviously focusing on the firing crates. um
00:09:20
Speaker
So firing crates do result in extreme restriction of movement, can cause pressure... sores to cells bruising and lameness um and psychological distress and um from a quick look around it seems like uh sales are kept in furrowing crates for five weeks per litter and they have uh I think, an average of two litres per year. So that's 10 weeks of a year stuck in these furrowing crates. So pretty horrible um imprisoning conditions. So, yeah, as you mentioned as well, and the article, whilst being, you know, it's an element of balance in there, quite openly, I think, expresses the frustration from the various pig industry representatives that they um that they quote, but also um a statement that is um almost quite complimentary in a way, really, that talks about Yet another campaign, so maybe a bit of frustration in there again, to emotionally blackmail the general public into becoming vegan. It's not. It's about getting people to stop eating. I read that statement and i I thought emotionally blackmail. I mean, it's just saying if you care about stuff.
00:10:30
Speaker
then then don't do this thing. i i i mean, I'd be interested to hear an example of emotional blackmail that we could pick apart and say, that's not fair. You know, oh, if you're supporting this country, then you're supporting the genocide in such and such a country. Or...
00:10:48
Speaker
if you support this person, then you're backing them in the horrible things that they're doing. I think that's just explaining the situation, isn't it? That's not that's not blackmail. Yeah, I mean, it's some carefully chosen words to try and um at least present the view that there are nefarious tactics being used and that it's a bigger kind of conspiracy to get everyone to be vegan, which, you know, and let's not deny it, that's kind of where we want to take it. But it's ah it an incorrect factual statement in the, in terms of the campaign is not trying to do that specifically it's trying to highlight their problems with faring crates and to get people to review their consumption of pork interesting there as say it's a tactic not particularly well received i mean by them quite clearly but i don't think we really know what the result of the um the campaign is until it's over and other campaigns
00:11:38
Speaker
ah They don't really sort of quote why they think it's ah pointless. And you'd think, well, if it's pointless, then one, why would people do it? And two, why would they be worried about it? Seems slightly contradictory in itself, doesn't it? They do go on to sort of give some figures to prop up their ah opinion about politics.
00:11:56
Speaker
Port consumption going up. I think we had another story on that um around Christmas um consumption of food. Interestingly, as as well as the increase in sales, they talk about being a reasonably priced protein source. I guess it all comes and comes down to money for them um and also delivers health benefits without saying what those health benefits are. quite mysteriously but there you go they do go on to say we produce pork via a variety of different welfare based systems so quite clearly i think admitting that some of them aren't very um welfare welfare based perhaps they're being quite honest about that they do go and say that the the campaign is sustained and it's well funded and organized which again seems to be almost sort of complimentary but they go on as well to say that um
00:12:43
Speaker
Essentially, there are some cases where we think we can do things better. Well, no shit. And they do try and play the view that farrowing crates are there to protect piglets in their early weeks of life. But and there is other research that I had a quick look at earlier on that says basically if pigs are given loose housing pens, that there's very little difference in the mortality rates for piglets anyway. And and obviously some piglets die of other conditions as well in terms of health, probably because of the you know general treatment that they receive. So yeah, ah it seems to be generally quite balanced. And yeah, there's the statement from the AJP there um at the end saying what the campaign's actually about. And they've given that sort of full full page and comes across as quite reasonable. So, you know, they haven't gone, ah, vegan, crazy, lefty socialists in, you know, attack on normalised eating sort of thing. It seems quite quite balanced on that. So Yeah.
00:13:42
Speaker
Worryingly suspicious about that. But yeah, it's, ah it I don't think they, I don't think they come out kind of covered in glory in it. um and And yeah, kind of says, well, why, why wouldn't people want look into this? It's my summation of it.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I still come back to the fact that I i don't even know why they're covering it really. if If they were going to cover it in a complete takedown and just say, this is ridiculous, blah, blah, blah.
00:14:08
Speaker
But, but they're not, like you say, it's, um, is providing lots of pro-vegan arguments in many senses. And I really like that my takeaway is the fact that the Animal Justice Project project this campaign to reach nearly 6 million commuters over the time. So let's hope it does. And let's hope it convinces many more people to ditch their support of the pig exploiting industry. That's what we hope.
00:14:37
Speaker
Let's move on to our next story
Vegetarian Diets and Cancer Risk
00:14:39
Speaker
then. It comes to us from plant-based news. It is reporting news of a study that says that vegetarians have a substantially lower risk of developing five types of cancer. Often we'll look at a study and say, oh, it's only focusing on 32 people or or what have you. But this one has got nearly 1.8 million data points um in that that's the that's the number of people whose data was looked at across the uk us taiwan and india over an average of 16 years investigated 17 different cancers overall including blood and gastrointestinal cancer julie i'm going to need some help with the numbers here because i couldn't work out whether it was doing that thing where if if it says 31% lower risk, does that actually mean, you know, one has got a 40% chance and the other's got 9% chance, so 31% lower? Or is it saying, well, if it's 31% lower, it's a third lower, if that makes sense. So if one is, I don't know, 10% chance, a third lower would be 7%. I think it's the latter, isn't it? Because that makes for more impressive sounding numbers. Well, that's the whole thing. There's a real click-baity thing going on here with the headlines to this article. So I had a look in the British Cancer Journal at the actual report of the research and it looks very different to this article, let me say.
00:16:15
Speaker
Their headline, you know, where they have the abstract for the actual report, their line is this. Vegetarian diets might influence...
00:16:30
Speaker
cancer risk. So lots of things might influence cancer risk. There's no correlation or no no causality at all and there's not even a definite correlation. There's a might in there. So with that in mind, you know, when you read the rest of the report from the actual research, actually none of these figures are for us to take seriously at all, unfortunately. and Bigger isn't always better in a study. Nearly 1.8 million people is a huge amount of people to be looking at. But then when you really go into the guts of the research, you
00:17:19
Speaker
There were so many variables within that population. yeah It's just mind boggling, really. And so the subjects were asked to look at their or to report on their food intake over a 12 month period back the way, you know, over the last year, have you blah, blah, had this, had that.
00:17:40
Speaker
quite difficult for some people to remember perhaps um and then the same people were resurveyed but varying lengths of time later and people being people just to add more confusion into the mix 12% of the people who identified as vegetarian then needed to be reclassified as meat eaters so what do you do with their data so it's It's a very, very complicated one. This isn't a single study that's been done. This is just a grouping of existing studies that were already out there. So it's not been purpose built, if you see what I mean. It's just ah you know a group of researchers looking, with a hypothesis, looking for studies that are suitable and
00:18:28
Speaker
The period of recruitment for all these different studies, the results of which were pulled to make this big study, was 1980 to 2010. lots of things have changed the world.
00:18:40
Speaker
lots of things have changed in the world in terms of people's use of social media, people's awareness of diet and health, supplements that are available, fortified foods that are available, nutrition. Lots of things have really, really changed in that time period. So it it is a slippery...
00:19:04
Speaker
sort of issue to get a hold of so I'm I'm not going to get too excited about any of the percentages in terms of reduction of risk really but you know I'm not sure is my answer to your question about you know which percentage does it relate to but I do know that the actual report says Yes, we're finding these things in line with other trends from other research, but you know these are the big difficulties and flaws in trying to gather this information you know at all and to draw any you know firm conclusions from it in relation to the level of risk.
00:19:46
Speaker
Some things were quite clear cut, but the other things, really difficult to draw conclusions. Yeah,
Vegan Media and Data Challenges
00:19:54
Speaker
yeah. And I have to say, you know, we are always very open about things that we get wrong and we invite all feedback to us. You know, we'll read out emails that folk have sent in critiquing what we do. And I do note that Plant Based News are quite fond of a clickbaity headline, which is part of what makes their channel work and exposes a far greater audience to vegan messages. absolutely. We all need clickbaits. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, this kind of stuff I'm not fan of. And this was the finest hour. would like to point out, though, to anybody listening who's feeling concerned, because I was concerned when I saw the headline about vegans having a 40% higher risk of bowel cancer.
00:20:40
Speaker
That sounds alarming. I think that was pretty low of them to... include that. But again, if you read the actual original report of the research, that gets quite literally poo-pooed as well. And so what they're then pointing out is that within this study of nearly 1.8 people, there were only people who identified as vegan. And again, there was no attempt
00:21:13
Speaker
to quantify the number of people who remained vegan for the full length of the time that we're talking about in terms of the follow-up. So they did it for the vegetarians, but they didn't do it for the vegans. And we all know that that you know there is some kind of drop-off with veganism, sadly, with people at times. So we really don't know about those figures. But the other thing that I would say that hasn't been mentioned in the report, but it's just a a thing that I noticed was I might have some explanation if there is any higher amount of bowel cancer, sadly, you know, within the population of people who are identifying as vegan, is that given that we are talking about 1980 to 2010, there's a couple of things about that period.
00:22:05
Speaker
There were possibly people who have inflammatory bowel disease, who for that reason then follow a plant-based diet because of digestive problems. So they're not vegan, but they're plant-based. And very sadly indeed, if you are somebody with one of the inflammatory bowel diseases, which include things like colitis, ulcerative colitis, and what's the other one?
00:22:33
Speaker
Crohn's. Crohn's. Oh gosh, it went right in my head there. Those sadly are linked with an increased risk. So it might be that they have inadvertently caught people in the net who aren't vegan but who already are very sadly predisposed to having bowel cancer. And certainly there is supposedly a link between certain deficiencies and, well, or calcium, I think it is for bowel cancer. And perhaps in the days before plant milks were fortified, maybe there was a lower calcium rate or, you know, something like that. But the study report does then go on to say that there are, you know, lots of other studies out there that show a very positive effect of a plant-based diet and that further research is needed before we can even consider, you know, looking at any correlations, never mind causality there in terms of cancer risk being increased. So,
00:23:42
Speaker
Don't worry at all about that statistic. And yeah, the general consensus is that reducing your meat or eliminating your meat intake overall is something that is associated with a lower rate of cancer. And the bottom bottom line is that we're not vegan for our health. We're vegan because we hate animal abuse and slaughter. So but we yeah we don't want to be hurting our health in the process, but I don't think there's any risk of us doing that. No, indeed. No, thank you for that one, Julie. Lots of lots of things to get into there. And it's difficult when when wires are tangled in these stories. So thank you for so bringing some light to that one. Now, last week, listeners might remember Shane and myself going red in the face whilst dissecting Malcolm Pryor of the BBC's analysis of the the deer culling being made
Helsinki's Plant-Based Policy
00:24:40
Speaker
easier in the uk and ah part of what he was talking about was lots of the the meat from these poor culled animals being fed to prisoners homeless people schools well i'm pleased to report that the helsinki city council in finland up this week voted to halve meat and dairy procurement
00:25:01
Speaker
and replace it with plant-based options in schools, hospitals, and other municipal institutions by 2030. So they're not finding you know discarded venison or anything like that. They're being proactive about this, which is a fantastic piece of news. This comes to us from greenqueen.com. They describe Finland's capital, Helsinki, as emerging as a trailblazer in sustainable protein policy after this move. So they're committing to replace half of their animal protein with plant-based food in the next four years. The vote was 57 to 23, so pretty comprehensive there. um It's called Pwulet Parempa or half better.
00:25:46
Speaker
Paul, we can get into the details. Half better, are we settling for half better? Yeah, absolutely. Half better, and but not fully better. So yeah, widely widely ah a very positive article. There's a couple of bits at the end to pick up that probably need to just be aware of. but it gives you a bit of a faith in progress. Helsinki seeming to be one of the really progressive ah cities in the world. Also, side of I ah went back and did a bit of research because obviously Finland, historically with politics, has had quite a lot of female-led representation and it is International Women's Day today. So I thought, let's have a look at the makeup of this council here. And it's actually...
00:26:26
Speaker
63.5% female-led. So perhaps that might tell you something about ways to see more political influence in um animal welfare across the world. But yeah, of the 57% 23%, 63% of those were female there. So yeah, essentially what they're trying to do here is similar to what we've seen with, I guess, a lot of other stories about City Council is trying to bring in or adopt certain policies that will reduce animal intake. It might be on like you know some mayoral banquets or or or adopt um proposals from third parties, and welfare groups that have been put forward. This is slightly different and I wonder if, you know,
00:27:07
Speaker
The UK, for example, might want to look to this as a nice, simple way of doing something, which is just to sort of cut in half the meat and dairy procurement. it's It's not you know's not fully vegan, but it's quite an easy easy message, easy target, and um some good stats around it too.
00:27:25
Speaker
take it forward maybe that maybe the beauty here is in the simplicity you know to sell it but you know of course is it is it enough you know we will probably say no and what are the reasons that they're looking for here well as we've seen with a few stories here today lot of this is not really focused on animal welfare at very little mention of that but it's more around the environment uh the impact um on the environment and also health for humans, which is great and we'll take it, but it's not really like the driver that we want. And you have to ask, you know, especially with health, for example, is that the sort of thing that's going to make these sort of decisions stick? But it does mean that, you know, in terms of Helsinki City Council's influence, And this varies obviously across the world in terms of city councils.
00:28:10
Speaker
This will impact schools, hospitals, daycare centres and other other public institutions. So, know, really massive amount of meals that will be impacted by this ah decision moving forwards. There's also, i mean, this this was originally from Greenpeace, I believe, terms of a a policy suggestion. They're also talking about the, in the future, because there's been recent elections in Finland, that there's There was nearly 300 candidates in the elections committed to this campaign goal. So that would be over 70 municipalities. I can never say this word, municipalities in Finland. um So it could be more good news to come. So that's that's a positive. i think, like you say, Helsinki being recognised already about being at the forefront of sustainable procurement policies. So they're building on that.
00:29:00
Speaker
Some interesting comments as well from some people within the industry, talking about, you know this is strengthening climate change and improving public health, so trying to give it that double positivity. Again, not much mentioned about animal welfare or, you know,
00:29:16
Speaker
animals in general but I think you know if you're talking about public services you do have to sell it on things like cost and they're talking about this could potentially save the city over three million euros a year and that sort of thing that sort of headline bottom line takes it forward so we just have to accept I think that this is this is something that's going to appeal to people you look at in our country the amount of councils that are are struggling financially and and it's really going to Probably be the sort of thing that appeals to people rather than going in saying, hey, why don't we love the animals a bit more? You know, kind of move it. It's ah something they're going to be able to deal with, I think, and and be able to sell ultimately to taxpayers at the end of the day. Like it or not, um that's that's the way it's going to work, I think. Lots of other interesting stats in here, which I won't go into, but it's a really good article if you want to get into cuts of what people want.
00:30:07
Speaker
ah ah The reason why people were sort of supporting this, there is a mention about how some shoppers actually object to this. I guess there's some people don't like to be told what to do, essentially, is what they what they think. But I think that's probably just more of an ah old-fashioned kind of view stuck in there as well. Yeah, widely, widely positive. Talks about New York City as well, you know, being another ah city that's adopted this perhaps even to a more extreme state. Extreme is a wrong word, but a more ah committed state by having plant-based by default as an approach in hospitals. So maybe that's the sort of, maybe that's really the panacea we should be aiming for.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah, start with her hospitals and work out from there. I agree with you, Paul. I thought this was a really good article. i I took heart from a couple of things from it. One was actually the fact that public opinion doesn't necessarily seem to back these policies, but they're going for them anyway. So 70% of the country's farmland is used for livestock production. So that you you could say, well, there's quite a vested interest there in in backing animal ag, um but they're nonetheless saying this. The public are not necessarily 100% behind it, but they're saying it anyway. And actually, i I did find someone who was speaking out for the animals to an extent, the city councillor, Maya Kivela, who said that the vote was a victory for climate responsibility, animal welfare,
00:31:35
Speaker
and children's right to a sustainable future. So yes, two of those three things are not animal related, but they did get it in there. So I think cause for optimism there. Thank you for that
Stag Hunting Practices in the UK
00:31:45
Speaker
one. We're going to head over to good old Blighty. We have not had a British story yet.
00:31:50
Speaker
ah so And unfortunately, it's not a particularly good reflection of that the way that some people choose to spend their pastimes. Although there are others, namely the Hunt saboteurs, who choose to spend their pastimes fighting for justice and exposing horrific practices. um And if you go on the Hunt Sabs website at the moment, they are doing quite a few exposés of things that are going on with regards to West Country. So we're talking like Devon, Somerset, that sort of area, West Country staghound meets before the turn of the year. So we're looking at autumn 2025. They did a report a couple of weeks ago
00:32:33
Speaker
on a covert operation that they did. And this week they have focused on the Devon and Somerset staghounds that they infiltrated back in September, 2025. It is an upsetting read. There are graphic pictures throughout which they do warn you about. But the the crux of it is the ridiculous premise that much of this hunting is done on. um They are relying on the research and observation exemption of the Hunting Act, which states that two dogs can be used to hunt if the hunting is undertaken for the purpose of
00:33:14
Speaker
or in connection with the observation or study of the wild mammal. And Julie, when you read the article, it is plainly clear that that is not what is happening at all. Yeah, where's their research report? Yeah. What did they find out then? Well, it I mean, it says in the article they've they've only produced one piece of, quote, research ever, despite using this loophole. Yes, in such several decades. Yeah, it's not a very good output, is it? No. Yeah, it's is's disgusting stuff. And it's it's an upsetting read, isn't it, this one? It really is. And yes, i mean, i think so there there are three stag hunts left in the UK and their name tells you what they're up to, doesn't it? They're not even trying to hide that. All of the stag hunts are in the Devon and Somerset area. And this Devon and Somerset one are the largest and most powerful because what they've also done is become the largest landowner on Exmoors. They've bought all this land so that they can continue to hunt. So, you know, that's not in the interests of research and observation. So for the people who don't live in the yeah UK,
00:34:39
Speaker
or even the ones that do. These hunting people, I've had a tiny brush with them in the past for a short space of time, sort of firsthand. And just to explain them a tiny bit to you, they are, they're just, they're manky. They really are manky.
00:35:01
Speaker
individuals and they are so driven to kill a defenceless and innocent creature for their no other reason than their actual enjoyment believe it or not they are so driven to do this they will risk a jail sentence huge fines they'll build an entire lifestyle around this activity that actually would land them in jail, you know, in most other contact texts because it's so, so abusive and bloodthirsty.
00:35:43
Speaker
And the only conclusion that we can come to is that these people have some kind of i undiagnosed mental health disorder that is driving them to do this. My hope is that they are a dying breed and that our current young generation are you know above this. And I think generally support for hunts is declining year on year anyway. So they are absolutely, you know, archaic things that just need to be completely stopped.
00:36:19
Speaker
I'm always a wee bit conflicted in a way because... I think with hunting, it is low numbers of animals being killed and at least they're living wild compared to the millions that are enduring a lifetime of suffering and they're largely sort of hidden plight of factory farmed animals. I think in a way, you know if I had to choose between where to put my energy for campaigning, I would be on the side of factory farmed animals.
00:36:52
Speaker
But having said that, I did watch some footage this afternoon from the Devon and Somerset hunt and I felt absolutely sick to my stomach.
00:37:06
Speaker
I really did just, yes, watching the hunt and watching the hounds pursuing a stag and yeah, just absolutely horrific. It all needs to stop.
00:37:20
Speaker
And all of humanity's relationship with animals, you know, and each other, of course, needs to be one of peace and respect because, yeah, it's just awful.
00:37:34
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think great credit needs to go to the Hunt Saboteur Association for everything they do, including just getting this stuff out there online. I learn something new every time we cover a story from them.
00:37:50
Speaker
And um my biggest takeaway is I didn't know there was only three groups doing this left in the UK. I think that speaks for itself. And um yeah that number is only going to go down, isn't it? It's only going to go down. Absolutely. You're absolutely right. Yes.
00:38:04
Speaker
Total shout out to the Hunt Saboteur Association. We love you. Indeed, indeed. And shout out to greenqueen.com who have provided two stories for this week's show um and is the source from
Cultural Shifts in Plant-Based Diets
00:38:20
Speaker
our next one. Paul, I'm going to be a tiny bit critical here and say that they've they focused on the wrong stats for the headline here. The headline is saying, Italians embrace plant-based food with 11% growth since which...
00:38:35
Speaker
For me, I'm kind of thinking, well, that's better than 11% decline, but that's not the biggest growth over three years. However, you read further down and it says that 45% of Italians now eat plant-based products two to three times a month. And by that, they mean things like vegan meat, vegan milk, vegan yogurt. and I think that's the the big takeaway for this one. that's I think that's huge. It is, but I'd probably counter that actually because, similar to you, when I read about the 11% increase, I thought, you know, yess yeah, i'll I'll take that.
00:39:12
Speaker
But it is actually perhaps more positive than what it sounds. Obviously, we're again, as with the other story, we're focusing on things being driven by health here predominantly, but, you know, but stick with that. But actually, um if the quick Google search I did earlier on is accurate, the worldwide growth in these sort of products, ah plant-based food over the same period is only 5%. So actually 11% does seem quite quite a bit higher. As I say, that's a very quick figure I've looked at and I'm quite happy to be corrected on on that by yourselves or by our listeners.
00:39:44
Speaker
And of course, you know, we've got examples like the USA that in the same period have actually shown a drop in consumption of these sorts of foods and more on that later as well. but Yeah, like you say, there's some really...
00:39:55
Speaker
more perhaps ah impactful figures as we go down the article. Really, you know, really good. I guess we have to take account of some of those higher figures, like 45% of Italians having all these products. It's only a few times a month, but you know, it's something and it's a...
00:40:11
Speaker
We all know for a lot of us, it's a journey. It's fairly slow. It's like turning an oil tanker. So I take it as positive for sure. um But, you know, it is 11% enough. Not for us, obviously, but it's it's it's something. So ah what i quite liked in this article was some of the commentary here from the Italian Food Union. I don't know how particularly they are wedded to...
00:40:33
Speaker
vegan products particularly but it sounds like it's a fairly wide and diverse organisation again happy to be corrected on that but I like the comment they they make here saying vegan food is perceived very positively among Italians who recognise it brings the value it brings to maintaining a balanced and sustainable diet over 73% respondents found plant based products healthy recognising them as rich source of fibre vitamins minerals and protein so you know really really good obviously um you know, this is a a scientific worldwide view anyway, unless you live in the States, perhaps. say we'll come into that in a minute. But yeah, really, really positive. And um what I also quite liked in here was the reference to 60%, 66% of Italians, two thirds, quoting having this sort of food has enabled them to get involved in more culinary creativity. And thinking, well, If there's one thing Italians are pretty well were known for, it's for food, it's big in their culture. So if they're quoting this, as and I would maybe have thought there might be quite a diehard traditional view of food in their culture, but this seems to suggest something completely opposite. So um I was pleasantly surprised by that, it has to be said. Obviously, they talk about the environmental impact.
00:41:49
Speaker
A really interesting bit further down, pretty much near the end of the article that's pertinent to the stories I think we're talking about recently about labelling. So the Italian Food Union, it was against the EU proposals that I think are the ones that passed recently from memory. And i like their quote here that says, this measure aims to ban established and easily understood terms which have never caused any misunderstanding or misinterpretation over time and appears to run counter to real consumer awareness i thought, well...
00:42:15
Speaker
That pretty much strikes a nail on the head, that one, doesn't it? And they did a test, didn't they? They commissioned... 90% of people fine with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, calls it out...
00:42:27
Speaker
probably better than I could have done, but they're kind going, yeah. ah But as we said before with that, and I know I'm going off topic a little bit, but if that's what these people to spend their money on, go for it because, you know, too the depth that horse has bolted, my friend. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think it will affect the way that the vote goes next week on this, the final bit of legislature for that bit of EU labelling. But yeah, in this study, one in 30 people thought that vegan meatballs were of animal origin based purely on site. So 29 out of 30 people were not confused. So yeah is it worth all this? It's not confusing, is it's nice it well And a meatball as well, which wherever it comes from is a pretty just literally an amorphous blob.
00:43:15
Speaker
um it's It's everything. Anything's going to confuse you. It's a meatball. But yeah, if if there' if there's one thing the meat industry can copyright, it's balls, I think. So ah Very good, very good. Okay, nice one. Thank you, Paul.
Michelin Guide's Vegan Collaboration
00:43:29
Speaker
Thank you, Julie. Let's take a quick breather. When we're back, we're going to hear Julie and Paul's picks for the week. And I'm looking forward to it. We have got PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They are reporting on a landmark chain in the Michelin Guide's 100th anniversary. And we have got a bit of rallying against some nonsense science.
00:43:53
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
00:44:13
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. I'm going to spell it all for you. Zencaster is Z-E-N-C-A-S-T-R dot com, then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week.
00:44:35
Speaker
Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week. And then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:44:47
Speaker
Okay, Julie, let's come to you first. Peter, in collaboration with the Michelin Guide, what an exciting duo that is. And three really clear takeaways, isn't there, from from this story in terms of what the...
00:45:03
Speaker
what the organisation Mishalahu, for folk who don't know, theyre they're purveying all the finest culinary options in the land in their travel guide and their website and everything like that. And they're they're making some quite landmark changes that hopefully will be improving outcomes for animals. Or are they? Ooh, twist. So for those people who do not know, the convention is that one talks about Michelin tires and Michelin stars, but they come from the same company. I'm just going to go Michelin all the way, but the company originally, and it still does, you know, the biggest tire manufacturer in the world. But in order to encourage people to burn a lot of rubber, they then wanted to bring out guides to get people holidaying and traveling and eating out.
00:46:02
Speaker
So there's probably the most famous guide and sort of structure that the Michelin company are famous for is the Red Guide, which is all about restaurants and And it awards one, two or three stars to particular upmarket establishments if they earn that. And there's another, they've got some other awards as well for different aspects of businesses in the restaurant trade. I won't go into. So that's the red guide. But what we're talking about today is the green guide, which is just turned 100 years old.
00:46:43
Speaker
Now, I think it's quite heartening in a way to get the sense that a multi, multi, multi billion pound company like or whatever currency they trade in, it'll be all different ones, I guess,
00:46:58
Speaker
company like Mishala is put on the back foot and frightened when PETA rings their phone and says, oh yeah, great big company. So what are you doing for the animals then? Because it's clear they're running scared here because I don't think that they've thought, oh, well, you know, we're turning 100. We're going to be suddenly very responsible and we're changing a lot of stuff up. I think they're just dressing up some coincidental things and I think they're being accidentally on the side of animal rights here. But you make your own mind up. I will outline the three so-called changes or whatever that they're making and you make your own mind up.
00:47:43
Speaker
So here we are with the Green Guide, the most prestigious and influential influential travel guide in the world, apparently. It covers sightseeing, culture and travel planning. So it's travel guide books, a bit like Lonely Planet. And it's so it's not the restaurants in these ones. And they cover cities, regions and countries. And you get them paperback if you're being old school or there are e-books there.
00:48:12
Speaker
So the first thing they're saying is that Michelin won't sell leather online or in store. If you have a look at their merchandise, there's not a lot of it.
00:48:26
Speaker
I don't think any of it would ever have been made of leather ever really I mean there are some bags on there perhaps they had leather their bags previously yes they don't have them now but you're talking sort of baseball caps and key rings that's their merchandise cotton aprons little just little kind of accessories and things like that so yeah they're not doing leather Okay, we'll give them that. Maybe there was some leather they've done away with. The second thing, they are removing all tourist activities that use animals.
00:49:05
Speaker
Uh-huh. Well, let's see. Let's see if they are removing all tourist activities that use animals because, you know, they're kind of citing things like, you know, dolphin parks and these kind of things. But there are other things like people going about cities, you know, in in a carriage pulled by horses, people going places and, you know, going trekking, riding horses, all the rest of it.
00:49:37
Speaker
I've no evidence that they are absolutely outlawing all of that, you know, but correct me if I'm wrong, michelle. And also, I don't know that they can take a lot of credit for this move either, because it's the travel firms themselves, not the guide, you know, that that's done this. And, you know, they they've done quite a lot of it to date.
00:50:02
Speaker
I think Michelle and little bit after the event, but... Yes, maybe there's been a bit of their selecting from now on, making sure that there are no obvious uses of animals. But i I think that's going to be a tricky one for them.
00:50:22
Speaker
The third thing that they're doing is specifically in their Green Guide to Spain, they're including a warning that bullfighting is, and I quote, an abusive and declining tradition. Well, I think it's a bit more than abusive, given that the bulls lose their lives.
00:50:45
Speaker
And yes, it is factually correct that it is declining. So I don't know. i mean, I don't know how hard-hitting and animal rights-focused that really is. But and I would say, Mishala, thanks for trying.
00:51:02
Speaker
What I would say, and I am aware that here I am advising a multi-million, whatever currency you want to name,
00:51:13
Speaker
industry a leader on how to run their business but if they are interested in impressing Peter and the rest of us then they could hugely step up here there's a massive opportunity here So they could use their huge worldwide influence to combat animal abuse and slaughter.
00:51:42
Speaker
Because fine dining establishments and hotels and things are the absolute worst offenders for using a huge array of animals as ingredients. So imagine if they just took on board the whole plant-based eating or even veganism, who knows? But imagine if they did that, that would be absolutely incredible. Because if they think that leather's a horrible, cruel product,
00:52:15
Speaker
And, you know, cows deserve better than that. Yes, they're absolutely right. You know, they've made a point of mentioning that. But what about when cows are slaughtered for meat in the first place and every other animal that gets killed? So, you know, they're sort of picking and choosing where their compassion and their morals are going. So I think it would be brilliant, I think it would be lovely if their whole Michelin star rating was only for a restaurants and hotels that and promoted a wonderful, peaceful for the animals, respectful, environmentally sound, healthy, plant-based menus that
00:53:02
Speaker
That would be absolutely amazing. Whereas at the moment, they've got articles on their website for the best steakhouses in the world. And, you know, they're they're very pro meat on their website. And also while they're at it.
00:53:18
Speaker
They can take away ah live in Madison Park, which is the restaurant in New York that is the three star, what was a vegan, well, plant based restaurant. Last year, they started serving dead animals again. So, yeah, I would think the first job would be to whip their stars off them.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, i i'm I'm feeling optimistic about this one, Julie, because I think, like you say, they're they're clearly feeling threatened by Peter and its influence. And they've they've come up with this list for this year. And I think this lays the groundwork perfectly for next year, Peter, to get back in touch and say, well, what have you done in the last year then? you know You've said that this is important and reducing and eliminating animal abuse is is a good thing. What else can you do? Paul, I was about to put you on the spot, but you have preempted my question by flashing a piece of paper. Tell us about Michelin's tyres.
00:54:19
Speaker
Well, other listeners as might remember that when we've covered things about vegan tyres, driving that Michelin michele are the um only real manufacturer tyres who have got anything close to a a vegan product but quite oddly they never really shout about it and you do wonder why that might be so the other thing they could do is perhaps big themselves ah up a bit about being making vegan tires. But I totally agree with what Judy's saying. Bit ironic, isn't it, trying to meat wash the whole situation when your ah whole um your whole classification system is predominantly based around the consumption of meat, dairy and other cool products.
00:54:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I do like the idea. I'm going to send it on email. Yeah, you should, Julie, you should. I really like the idea of a Vegan Society logo on each Mitchell and Tyre that you see. You spinners. Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it? Let's see if that can be their next year's development. Thank you for that pick of the week, Julie.
00:55:19
Speaker
Now, Paul, we have reported on the show in the last couple of months the so-called inverted pyramid, defeating the object of the pyramid, as I think Mark pointed out, that has been the US's dietary guidelines for Americans that have just come out placing a high-impact
Criticism of US Dietary Guidelines
00:55:38
Speaker
agenda.
00:55:38
Speaker
sorry, a high emphasis on animal products like red meat and dairy. There were some plant-based foods in there, but it felt a bit begrudging. However, there's news of a pushback. Can you tell us about this pushback, Paul, and why it's relevant to animals?
00:55:56
Speaker
Yeah, in an article that should probably be headed up the craziest shit you read for a while. and This is not like Finland. This is not like Italy, and not even like New York City, but over in the alternate reality that is the wider USA, who seem to have forgotten. um all the scientific evidence out there around the food pyramid, around the entire world that has been adopted, as we've mentioned in other stories, um and instead are focused on an American dream, which is still in the past and is being driven predominantly by ah conspiracy theorist and family family embarrassment RFK Jr., who seems to have personally
00:56:37
Speaker
put some of these um criteria together in this and it really is absolutely mad shit really really is and and whilst i don't want to be drawn into being a conspiracy theorist myself you do have to ask the question about what is this for is it it it doesn't seem to be for the people is it for perhaps propping up the u.s pharma industry and and ah private healthcare you know uh look inside yourself but that's maybe a consideration But yeah, ah totally inverted pyramid putting emphasis on um meat and dairy. Essentially here we've got ah over 200 doctors writing to the RFK Junior and Secretary Brooke L Rollins to basically saying what are you talking about? there' there's There's no evidence in this. in this
00:57:27
Speaker
And even when we follow down here, we've got the um we've got people like the Lancet basically saying, you know, this is this is um conflicted and compromised in terms of its source. It's a recipe for poorer health. It's absolutely, you know, slating the choice that is made within the guidance. Those in government seem to be seem to have ignored the Dietary Guidance Advisory Committee, who are the ones who have driven some of the advice here. And there seems to have been a ah a separate organisation set up here called the Scientific Foundations, which seems to have very little um scientific basis for its conclusions that have driven the um criteria used and couldn't help thinking it's a bit like the
00:58:13
Speaker
Trump Board of Peace, and which is ah obviously made up of people not well known for their interest in peace. It just seems to be a complete fallacy to have this sort of organisation driving these um these choices. And as we know, even in this country, when we have advisory bodies on things like this, and they happen to be asking the meat industry and the dairy industry, what do you think of like reducing the product that you make all your profit from? And they're like... Well, on a balanced view and completely neutral, we probably think that's a bad idea.
00:58:43
Speaker
um So I think we're in that sort of territory here. ah Yeah, I really, mean, gobsmacking this sort of thing and the the amount of power that's given to someone like RFK Jr. to make these sort of advisers in the face of oh so scientific evidence.
00:59:00
Speaker
You know, they were talking about prioritizing beef, tallow and butter. I mean, it is like the nineteen fifty s isn't it? And it's kind of, it's absolutely crazy. The reference here, people saying, well, even if we have a modest number of Americans who pick up and follow this, this guidelines, it's going to recover require hundreds of millions of acres of new agricultural land.
00:59:20
Speaker
I mean, just from the environmental perspective, it's nuts, absolutely nuts. I wish it was nuts. It would be a lot better. But um yeah, absolutely crazy stuff. Crazy, crazy stuff. Indeed. good Good to see some pushback. I think we will probably all be a little sceptical as to whether it gets anywhere. But I often think this in terms of social justice this issues. Sometimes you've got to rally against things and and and fight back, even if you don't think you're going to get there, because actually just lying down and taking it and giving no resistance. That is exactly what these oppressive forces want you to do. And indeed, you know, if some of us fight back, then that encourages more to do so and more to do so. So I really applaud the 210 health and science professionals
01:00:08
Speaker
who have put this together. And yeah, um i I can't see this administration listening to it at all. But it's not, it's like Facebook comments, isn't it? It's not just intended to the person you're replying to. There are there are other people watching, there are other people listening. So it's good to get that that voice out there for sure. there I have noticed a few nuts on this inverted pyramid, Paul.
01:00:33
Speaker
I think i've I've counted eight of them, eight individual nuts. Is that an annual requirement, is it maybe? I don't know. I think so long as you fry them in beef tallow, then yeah that sort of again and it's fine. Indeed. Well, thank you for that one, Paul. So we've heard Paul and Julie's picks for the week. They have expressed their opinion. We love hearing your opinion in a variety of different ways. If you are someone who is using social media regularly or at all, then we are on there now with a renewed presence, which is fantastic. We're on Instagram and Facebook at Enough of the Falafel. We tend to put the week's news stories on there too. So you can just click through and read them. You can add your comments. And if you're interested in Mark's favourite falafel, flavor of shampoo and what Paul does on the weekends. There's a few little ah get to know the contributors pieces that Shane has put on there in the last few weeks you might be interested in. We also really, really like hearing from you by email, which could be especially your chosen medium if you're wanting to send us a bit more detailed opinion or bit of feedback or an idea for the show. So you're going need our email address.
01:01:44
Speaker
Here it comes. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
01:02:05
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, last story, story number nine. I said Green Queen are providing two stories. Oh no, no, no, they're providing three stories for this week's show. This week's show in association with Green Queen. The headline, blended meat had a breakout year in 2025. These factors will define its next growth stage. If you're not sure what blended meat, the idea is that you've got a meat product that is blended with plant-based
Rise of Blended Meat Products
01:02:41
Speaker
ingredients. ingredients or micoprotein, the sort of stuff that makes up corn, which offers companies a way to lower their emissions and costs, gives consumers a way to eat less saturated fat and more fiber whilst maintaining the meaty taste of burgers or whatever. the product is. um Apparently 65 companies across the world now um sell blended products. And in the US s alone, the serviceable, obtainable market for these products is worth over $5 billion.
01:03:17
Speaker
dollars Now, I don't think it's going to be any surprise to hear that um Julie, myself and Paul, we're not about to rush to the US s to get our hands on some of these products.
01:03:29
Speaker
The question is, is there an argument that in the short term, medium term, long term, this could do some good for animals or is it simply barking up the wrong tree, Julie?
01:03:41
Speaker
It's not a new concept, though, this stretching out meat products to make them cheaper. People have been doing it to cat and dog food for a very long time. So people are just getting subjected to... cat and dog food type techniques in their food that you know now so will it help the animals medium or longer term the concern i have is that we're not talking a huge reduction in the meat content we're just talking a bit like 30 percent at most or something So my concern is that that I don't think would be enough to put somebody absolutely out of production. It would just make a dent in their profits and well in their sales and then their profits. And we all know that when there's a bit of a sort of damage done to something, it can sometimes just make it more resilient and make it strengthen up against that. So my worry is then that with the reduction in profits, that they try and get the costs down and that the conditions that animals are kept in get even worse and the staff get even lower salaries and get even more stretched and, you know, impatient and aggressive towards the animals, that actually that will make a worse outcome. So you'll just have an industry that's even more sort of stretched and under pressure and also that...
01:05:25
Speaker
demand It'll just be a case of perhaps importing cheaper meat from other countries again where animals are even worse off. I know it's hard to imagine that our factory farms are so awful here as it is. but there may be places where the meat is cheaper because the conditions are even, even worse. So that's my worry that we're then just really going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel. And what might be a weird consequence is that for a while, until production s slows you know down and everything, there will be waste.
01:06:05
Speaker
There'll be a bit of waste because it won't be going into the burgers or whatever and then where will that meat go and it'll might go back into the pet food so the animals might end up with very meaty pet food and the humans might end up with the stuff with all the filler and I don't know Yeah, it's all all all possibilities, aren't there?
01:06:28
Speaker
Something i that I was surprised by, Paul, I don't know whether you clocked that in this, but there were there were three facts that stood out to me. So Disneyland has recently swapped all kids meal burgers for the so-called 50-50 foods, both burger. So it's it's half meat, but it's half not. The Dutch Grand Prix last year...
01:06:48
Speaker
quietly transitioned all their hamburgers to the halfway burger, selling nearly 30,000 of them in the three days of the event. And the fact that Lidl's blended beef mince is a third cheaper than the beef only option. I mean, whether or not this is something we get behind, those numbers could point to towards things just accidentally getting better for animals, couldn't they?
01:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, I find myself not excited by this story, but I feel like I probably try should be. Yeah, sorry about that. It was the way it delivered. ah So it was... some But i should i I think I probably should be more than I am and because it just feels a bit veg-washing, green-washing. And i yeah the phrase that sprung into my mind is you can't polish a turd. um But it is... And it's also...
01:07:38
Speaker
Perhaps I say negatively, it feels like this sort of thing could actually stifle the adoption of plant-based diets and plant-based products because we're kind of trying to create this halfway house. However, flip side, and the thing that I'm always arguing for being sort of progressive is that you do need to provide... meat-like products for people to transition. And this is, fit but it feels like and another step to the left of that. So if it's going to be like meat to half and half to meat-like products to, um you know, like full vegan diet, maybe, but it just doesn't feel like it's being pitched like that. And okay, people would be going for it maybe for health and for for the environment. But as Judy said, there's a thing here about costs, which I hadn't really thought about.
01:08:23
Speaker
when I did still eat meat back in the early 90s I remember buying stuff from Iceland and looking at some kind of chicken thing and it had been all this that was all the water injections that were going on to stuff then and even that was like it was like a chicken breast and it was like 63% chicken and I remember going like how is this possible it's it's like but I'd suspect Julie's hitting something that I hadn't really thought of so I'm sure there's a cost factor um yeah it just feels like it's a bit of a ah ah stifle and a veil over so what what the meat industry is really. um The other thing though that I thought was that, and it's probably interesting to talk about is, I don't if you know if yourself or other ah listeners have noticed, but I Quite a lot of the big ah vegan brands now have started ah other lines where, um because I think of the ultra processed foods of critique that's put forward, they're starting to create a mixture of blended mock meat and vegetables ah to kind of lessen the ingredients that they've got in there. So I think...
01:09:28
Speaker
the The vegan industry is starting to do a similar sort of thing as well. So yeah and it's quite an interesting comparison, perhaps. But so yeah, i I don't know. I think I should probably try and make myself more positive and think bigger picture. But yeah, it just feels a little bit box sticky and a bit stifling and ah a bit for the wrong reasons. that Yeah, it just doesn't doesn't really do a lot for me. Yeah, it's certainly not going to be something that I'm advocating for, but I think if just silently in the background, these switches happen and they happen to make things better for animals or reduce the amount of suffering that goes on, then then hooray for that. But yeah, I think...
01:10:11
Speaker
from a vegan perspective, it's not the ah not the thing to get behind necessarily. But who knows? Maybe listeners, you've got different ideas. You know how to contact us if you do. That's the end of our stories. And we are really so very grateful that you've joined us for this episode.
01:10:29
Speaker
Lots of you regularly comment on our shows on Spotify, which helps the algorithm. There's lots of other things that you can do to help share what we do and help more people hear it. Here's a little reminder of some of those things.
01:10:46
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:11:11
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
01:11:23
Speaker
Thank you everyone for listening. The next Enough of the Falla Fall episode coming out will be Vegan Talk and that will be available from the 12th of March. Indeed, that'll be with me, Richard and Mark. We're talking about drones, whether they are allies for the animal rights movement or whether they are pests that are getting on animals' nerves.
01:11:45
Speaker
We've told you relatively recently ah for the first time about our Ko-Fi page, several people have decided to send us a recurring donation. You can just send a one-off thing too, which we are putting towards even fancier equipment so you can hear us with crystal clear audio lines. Oh my goodness, it's going to make a grown man weep, as I think the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says when describing a I think it's the Vogon. oh that's interesting, isn't it? The Vogon ah audio technology they've got. That's a very close link to vegan. Anyway, I'm falafeling on. We have got a little appreciation ditty that we promised one of our Ko-Fi subscribers. It is the wonderful Neil.
01:12:35
Speaker
And we've asked Julie to perform for the first time ever a little thank you ditty for Neil. Over to you, Julie. Hello there Neil, this is for you.
01:12:47
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There once was a listener Neil, who heard the falafel appeal. And each month now he spends ten quid with his friends.
01:12:58
Speaker
We just love him, that's how we all feel. As he sits at home, wondrous chap, with his greyhound dozing off for a nap.
01:13:10
Speaker
Raise your glass, raise cheer, for brave Neil's always near. With sweet kindness, let's give him a clap.
01:13:23
Speaker
Well read, Julie. That was perfect. And thank you again, Neil, for your kind donation. Listeners, you can join the club if you have the means and you're interested in supporting us. Anyway, that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Paul, for your contributions. Thank you for the last time this episode, but the biggest thank you to you listening.
01:13:45
Speaker
We're so grateful that you join us each time. I've been Anthony, you've been listening to Vegan Week, and we're the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:13:57
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
01:14:07
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:14:38
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:14:59
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:15:13
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.