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Preparing for and Reacting to Dangerous Field Circumstances - Ep 281
688 Plays9 months ago
Have you ever encountered hostile land owners, aggressive guard dogs or other dangerous circumstances in the field? This week the crew chats about their own dangerous field experiences, how to properly prepare for these circumstances and the best way to get out of a situation safely.
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/crmarchpodcast/281
Blogs and Resources:
- Bill White: Succinct Research
- Doug Rocks-MacQueen: Doug’s Archaeology
- Chris Webster: DIGTECH LLC
- Andrew Kinkella
Kinkella Teaches Archaeology (Youtube)
Blog: Kinkella Teaches Archaeology
ArchPodNet
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Goals
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. This is the Serum Archaeology Podcast. It's the show where we pull back the veil of cultural resources management archaeology and discuss the issues that everyone is concerned about. Welcome to the podcast.
Episode Introduction: Field Challenges
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the CRM archaeology podcast, episode 281 for January 23rd, 2024. I'm your host, Chris Webster. On today's show, we talk about challenging field situations like shotguns and how to deal with them. So get out your business card and bulletproof field vest because the CRM archaeology podcast starts right now.
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to the show everyone. Joining me today is Andrew in Southern California. Hey everybody, how's it going? Bill, possibly in Northern California online with us. Hello. Could be some issues. Are you there? Bill? Bill's not there. Okay. Bill's here in spirit. We can see him and Heather in Southern California.
00:01:08
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Today, we have a topic. It was actually Heather's topic technically today on our little scheduler there, but we did get an email from a listener.
Safety Concerns in Fieldwork
00:01:19
Speaker
We really love emails from listeners, by the way. You can reach out to me, chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com, which is what she did. You can go through our website. There's a contact form on there, which technically does still send it to me.
00:01:31
Speaker
if you don't want to just type in my email address, or there's contact info for some of the hosts that have different socials and things on our show notes. So check all that out. But she came back and said here, I didn't ask her for permission to say her name, so I'm not going to do that, but I'm just going to read her email a little bit here. So she says, she has a safety topic. And she says, especially as a young woman working in the field for both archeology and cultural,
00:01:54
Speaker
historic architectural surveys. I've had a few situations where I've had to immediately leave an area due to hostile landowners, homeowners, and even aggressive panhandlers. I've been followed by people in vehicles and even mooned while on survey. I have too, but that was from other field technicians. Anyway, what are your stories about this wild side of CRM?
00:02:14
Speaker
Heather took that and ran with it and put together a great show with different things in each segment. And it all kind of, it all kind of ties back to this. So Heather, why don't you lay out a little bit what your idea of the show was.
Current and Future Safety Practices
00:02:28
Speaker
So, you know, we talk about safety topics.
00:02:30
Speaker
a decent amount and so I wanted to make sure that what we're talking about is relevant to current situations and that we're providing the listener something a little bit new. So the first segment we're going to focus on current situations
00:02:47
Speaker
that field staff are encountering. So not the same old same old that we would all expect that we are all it's all important, of course, but it's something we've talked about. And if people are interested in it, they can certainly check our back episodes. And then we'll, you know, just talk about different scenarios that we've encountered and maybe how it was
00:03:08
Speaker
In the segment two, we're going to look at effective situations to avoid dangerous circumstances.
Field Safety Stories and Professionalism
00:03:16
Speaker
And then obviously we can't avoid them completely. So how do we prepare ourselves and field staff for the unexpected? And then in segment three, I thought it would be a great opportunity for us to kind of look into the future and see what kind of safety
00:03:34
Speaker
issues that we think may be coming or maybe increasing that we have right now, but maybe increasing in numbers. And so that's that's how we're going to tackle our episode today.
00:03:48
Speaker
Okay. Sounds good. Well, do we want to hit it off with some of our own war stories from, uh, from Sierra? Yeah. You know, one, one for me always comes to mind and I guess it's not probably really that bad. Oh, I guess it could have been bad. And I think about this every time we're driving through somewhere in the West, especially, and we see these, we see these plots of land out off the interstate that have like a trailer on it in the center.
00:04:13
Speaker
person has just staked their claim on 40 acres or something like that. And they're like, stay the hell away. I'm in the middle. You're not coming near me. And this was near Winnemucca, Nevada. And it was one of our first projects in Nevada actually. And we were, we were doing this survey and there were no
00:04:29
Speaker
property lines or markers or anything. We did see a small, I want to say it was a small like trailer or something off in the distance on this one little plot of land. And this woman came all ass across the land, ignoring the fact that her truck was being destroyed by the bumps and rocks and things she was just doing 50 miles an hour over.
00:04:49
Speaker
and just rolled up on us and was like, what the hell are you guys doing? This is my land. Get the hell off. And she pointed out these cones that we could barely see that are the corners of her property, her big square that she owns. And we're like, yeah, OK, no problem. We did say the crew chief actually at the time was like, well, we're here for this. And we have a permit. And she's like, I don't care. Just lost her mind. And in that case, you literally just turn around and walk away. I mean, you don't find that, right? You bring it up to your superiors. They'll bring it up to proper channels.
00:05:18
Speaker
And then they'll go through and do whatever has to be done to make sure that, you know, something can be done out there. But yeah, that was, that was, I've had other situations, but that's the first thing that comes to mind.
Handling Hostile Situations
00:05:30
Speaker
I don't know. Somebody else can, somebody else can go next.
00:05:32
Speaker
This is recent, we do a lot of work in Northern Santa Barbara County, and you have a lot of good old cowboys out there, which is not a bad thing. I love the cowboy, just I love the cowboys out there. I mean, they're great to work with, but they do have an interesting sense of humor. And we had a group of archaeologists out surveying a large area.
00:05:56
Speaker
And they came across what looked like from a distance somebody with a gun on a tripod on a truck. And there was no way of turning around because it was a very narrow dirt road and there was just no way of turning around. So they went forward.
00:06:16
Speaker
And the guy stopped them and kind of went in front of their truck and they, they talked to him and you know, they were a little apprehensive, but turns out the guy, they were citing a rifle. So they're, they're just making sure that their rifle is accurate. And that is something that's legitimate for those that do shoot guns. And so they,
00:06:39
Speaker
They were talking to the guy and the guy was actually one of the landowners out there. And he wasn't all that happy about having a survey in the area. And so he thought it would be funny to when they were asking what he was doing with a gun on his truck to say he was hunting for archaeologists. Oh my God.
00:06:59
Speaker
Oh, I laugh at it. No, it was not funny. It made them very uncomfortable, of course. And so as a field director, did I think he was joking? Yes, I did. You know, as as project manager, I thought I thought he was joking and I had dealt with the guy. And he's an interesting cat, but I didn't think he was dangerous. However,
00:07:17
Speaker
As a project manager, the day was over as far as I was concerned. And even if I didn't think they were in any danger at all, they did not feel comfortable. And so I think that's a good lesson to project managers that even though you may know a little bit more information than your field staff, you need to respect when they feel uncomfortable. And that was a legitimate reason to feel uncomfortable.
00:07:42
Speaker
There's other situations where I've had field staff that say they're uncomfortable, but it's really not, it's something that's more their lack of preparation and you have to deal with it in a different manner. But anyway, it was a good thing because the client we were doing the work for backed us up 100%. It was dealt with appropriately and the guy was admonished and he didn't do that again.
00:08:07
Speaker
Anyway, those are the the little quirky things that can happen in the field. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I am going last because mine's kind of a combo of yours and Chris's. So what's funny is like Chris in his the setup is he's in sort of the middle of nowhere in Nevada, you know, and sort of in our cliche mind, we think that, oh, that's where that kind of stuff happens.
00:08:32
Speaker
Most of my stories that go like this are just labeled Santa Monica Mountains. Like and what I mean by that is the Santa Monica Mountains, they are, yes, a large open space, but they're in the middle of a very urban area. This is Southern California, right? The Santa Monica Mountains, Malibu is on one side of them and the valley, the San Fernando Valley and the Canelo Valley are on the other side. And there's
00:08:59
Speaker
roads and stuff going across them. So this is not like a far away wilderness, but it is physically large and up there.
00:09:07
Speaker
You have this funny combination of hyper wealthy people who own, you know, massive amounts of land and hyper not wealthy people who own massive amounts of land, meaning that, you know, they got some deed to it in 1859, but they themselves have no money. So they have the setup like Chris was talking about. Like they have like a like a little tiny mobile home
00:09:33
Speaker
on the middle of like a multi-million dollar plot, right? You see that like a decent amount of time. So one of the times when I was up there, and again, you're driving up there for some project or something, I took a wrong turn, which is super easy to do up there.
Tools and Training for Field Safety
00:09:50
Speaker
And I parked at where I thought I was supposed to be and it was like a little mobile home and it had like a parking lot, like a large sort of parking lot in front of it. It had different cars on it in different states of repair and whatever, but I just parked my car and it was in the morning, you know, I got out and I started walking towards the door because I was going to, you know, intro myself and say hi.
00:10:12
Speaker
But I'm at the wrong one. The one I was supposed to be at looked like it, but was just slightly different. As I'm walking up, the guy, the property owner, busts out of his door with a shotgun, racks his shotgun, and goes, who the hell are you on my property?
00:10:28
Speaker
and i'm like hey like i put my hands up and i was just like hey i'm just here you know to looking for this project i apparently might have the wrong address like i have my hands up as i'm backing away you know and he's like
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you freaking do, you know. And and so I got in my car and I drove away. But that kind of stuff, that's that's the most extreme of my stories. But I have a lot of those get off my property kinds of things. And while you think that I'm giving you a scene from Deliverance or something like that, it's like it's Santa Monica Mountains. So my note to people is it's that kind of thing that my property is is everywhere.
00:11:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say that that is everywhere in California. There's yeah, I mean, even well, especially in in Santa Barbara County and in some of these counties that have very large pieces of land without without any development on it. So I think actually I think that this is a good opportunity for us to go to the next segment. We'll be talking about how to approach these situations and prepare for the unexpected.
00:11:43
Speaker
This is episode 281 and we're talking about preparing ourselves for dangerous field circumstances and also how do we react to dangerous field circumstances. In segment one, we talked about the current situations that some of us have encountered.
00:12:00
Speaker
And what that's plaguing field staff currently, and because that does change. I think people don't realize in the last time, she spent a lot of time on climate, a lot of time on heat related and bugs and bacteria.
00:12:15
Speaker
But we don't talk about what is the ever changing dangers and I think that that is more dangerous because you don't know that you're going to encounter them poison oak heat. These are all things that have been looked at and safety.
00:12:30
Speaker
departments have created training for and have provided us hopefully with the proper equipment to make sure that we can handle those situations properly. But it's, to me, what is the most dangerous are those situations that you sometimes can't anticipate. And so we're going to talk about in this section, how do we anticipate circumstances that are strange and I think
00:13:00
Speaker
For me, this is something that I think about a lot because I'm not in the field. It's easier. Like as a mom, I feel safer when I'm with my kids, especially when they're younger, because I knew that if something happened, I would be there to help them through it. But as children get older,
00:13:20
Speaker
You have to, you think about what could happen that they're not going to know how to react to and I'm not there to help them through it. And it's the same thing. I don't, of course, I don't see field staff as children, however, except for in the, in the aspects that I care about them deeply and I want them to be safe. And so I'm always trying to anticipate what could happen out there and how do we prepare staff the best that we can.
00:13:45
Speaker
And talking about these remote areas, one thing that comes to mind that we use quite a bit is
00:13:55
Speaker
making sure that you have somebody on staff, you know, we're seeing people travel across the country doing work. And if you have somebody who comes in from, I don't know, Illinois, and they're coming into urban LA, and nobody else from urban LA is on that crew, I think that's a mistake. I think one, one aspect is you need to have somebody who's local, who understands the landscape, who understands the
00:14:21
Speaker
community who can help people through hairy situations. So I think that's one one thing that that people may not think about when they're sending field crew out there. OK, first off, what I what I took from that before Andrew goes is no one should ever go to L.A. I totally agree. Go ahead, Andrew. You just that is the that's the winner. That is the answer to that question.
00:14:47
Speaker
No, I made so as we were talking, I made a little list of stuff of like, hey, what, you know, hey, some tips and tricks to keep yourself safe first, based on my story in the last segment, make sure you have good directions to the place. Yes. You know, that's and that's a note, not just to the staff, but to the higher ups in CRM. I mean, how many million times have we all experienced where like the office gives you horrible directions?
00:15:16
Speaker
Well, in this one little thing I'd like to add to that. So most companies now, it's so accessible, these apps that can put the project location right on. It's highlighted in blue. There's no reason. Yes, you need directions. You need an address. A lot of times these projects, I still have addresses yet, right? And so, especially if they're in the middle of nowhere. So having...
00:15:43
Speaker
Every one of your staff has an app on their phone that provides, like you have a general area, but then as you get closer to the area, you can look and see that the boundary is outlined. That to me is a must. You have to have that.
00:15:59
Speaker
It's huge. And I would say most projects I worked on, you know, in serum over the years, the first week or so, we didn't have it. You know, it's like, oh, wait, you turn near the old oak tree and you go five meters. You know, it's like, no, no, no. Like that needs to happen before. So directions. And then if you're in like a crap situation where you have to deal with somebody, you know, like I did racking their shotgun or whatever, let's say it's even not as extreme where it's just
00:16:26
Speaker
You know, angry. You just got to be friendly, move slow because they're they're going to be really jittery. And who knows if they have a gun. Another note to sort of CRM firms, make sure everyone has a business card.
Communication Strategies in the Field
00:16:40
Speaker
I find that a business card is a fantastic shield. You just because you can kind of start the conversation with hey, and you sort of.
00:16:47
Speaker
give the business card as you smile, you know, and go, Hey, I'm just here to do this thing. Look professional. If it's that first day, make sure you're wearing your like good stuff. Yeah. And also PPE. Yeah. Of course. All your, you know, and that that PPE looks good. Exactly. Looks official.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah. You wear the polo from the, from the company, you know, you look like you're supposed to be, that's huge. You know, just, just, uh, no, I gotta say a note on that too, because the professionalism, you know, out in the field really goes a long way. Right. Um, it's like, it's like when I was in college and I was, I was working at Kinko's when it was still Kinko's. And you know, if I didn't really try that hard on a report, all I had to do was bind it, put it in a nice cover and glossy color, everything and make it look good. And it seemed like I did a good job.
00:17:39
Speaker
Because it's like when you sell your car, you get it detailed, right? Absolutely. Because people don't look a little closer. Well, it's kind of the same thing. If you don't look like you're a bum, and to be honest, a lot of people's field clothes,
00:17:52
Speaker
they do not look great. For some reason, field clothes fit this. They don't want to look like that guy Josh from Expedition Unknown or whatever it is because it looks like he just bought his stuff from REI, which is fine. He's on TV. But also,
00:18:08
Speaker
you know, you don't want to look like a bum. And I'll never forget this guy in Miami when we were on this project and they had us, they had us staying in a courtyard Marriott. So, you know, not, not a Motel six Marriott with a restaurant downstairs. And in the mornings they had
00:18:23
Speaker
the restaurant open for breakfast and like continental breakfast, like, you know, orange juice and you know, little things. And he comes down and he's got, I mean, no shade on anybody's tattoos, but I'm sorry, if you have neck tattoos, you're going to look shady in certain circumstances. So not only did he have neck tattoos,
00:18:38
Speaker
But he had like ripped up jean shorts, like a ripped up cut off, I think like flannel style shirt or something like that. And he literally looked homeless. And one of the guys that was running the restaurant comes out and was trying to get him out and he's like, dude, I live here. And they thought he was, because there's a lot of homeless around there trying to get in and just, you know, just do what they're going to do. And
00:19:00
Speaker
They thought he was homeless, but he's legit, a decently paid archeologist working on a project across the street, has an education, has a degree, but nobody would have known that. And that's how he was treated. And if you're seeing like that out in the field, I mean, what do you expect? Exactly. And Chris started that saying, relating it to detailing cars. It's like, yeah, detail yourself. Detail yourself.
00:19:22
Speaker
You know, and and I'm not here to say that I go out in the field in a polo and good genes every day, but those first day or two, you know, when you're meeting people, yes, you know, do that. Think about that. It's just it brings so many happy returns if you do simple stuff like that. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
So I think that this, you know, this plays right into talking about the company's responsibilities versus the staff responsibility. So, you know, in the end, you want yourself to be safe. And sometimes you're working for a smaller company that doesn't have all the tools at their disposal, or they choose not to. And so,
00:20:02
Speaker
I think that either you choose not to work for companies that don't have that safety. I mean, obviously there's things that they have to have, but the extras are trainings. When one thing that we started, we've been realizing that our staff has been coming across dogs more and more and more often.
00:20:19
Speaker
And so, and, and guard dogs. I mean, these dogs, if you're, if I live in the middle of nowhere in a trailer, I'm probably going to have a guard dog too. So, and these guard dogs, their job is to make sure that they alert the owner when somebody is on the property and they're probably not that friendly. So we started training our staff to how to handle aggressive dogs. And I think that that's probably few and far between. I don't think there's a lot of companies that do that.
00:20:49
Speaker
So, if you are in those kinds of situations, taking it upon yourself to even do some Googling, to train yourself, to take a look and see if you can find, you know, there's lots of free training out there, even if you're just reading up, or if you're working for a company that does provide that training, making sure that you're paying attention to it so that when you, as needed, are working for a company that doesn't have that training, you still have that in the back of your head.
00:21:17
Speaker
So you do as a staff have responsibility to train yourself up. And I do believe that companies have a responsibility to train the best that they can. But of course you can't anticipate everything. So just having a cool head is one aspect of keeping yourself safe on site. But the other is making sure that you're training for whatever situation you at least currently know could happen.
00:21:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I agree. There's a lot of circumstances when I've been on the field as well, where we just weren't given enough information, right? Totally. We were given enough information as crew chiefs from the company, and then we look like assholes when we go out there. And also, have business cards and things like that that you can hand somebody so they can... Even if you don't have a business card, and I never once had a business card in CRM as a crew chief, they're probably not going to give you that, especially if you're not permanent with the company.
00:22:12
Speaker
But bring the business cards of the PI out there, right? Because chances are they have business cards. And you can hand that off and say, listen, if you've got any questions, talk to this person. Just set their minds at ease. I think that's a better idea, actually, the field manager. Because if you have a card yourself, you don't want them calling you.
00:22:32
Speaker
I'd rather give the PA the ice card. Just a little bit. You put your name on it, but it's just the company phone or whatever. Yes, exactly. And we have separate... We made company cards specifically for that. So it doesn't have anyone's specific name on it, or it's just the phone number for them to call.
00:22:55
Speaker
It is good if you have the specific name. I made a big stink about this years ago with one of my companies. I'm like, you make me business cards because I knew how important they were in situations like this. And it was the right thing. And how hard is it to get some printer and print out some business cards with somebody's name on it?
00:23:11
Speaker
But I wouldn't want my personal number. That's what I'm saying. No, no. Because you know why you're so you can have your name where you have a card and it has a line that you can write your name on it and it has the company contact. Yeah. But you need your name. You need a name printed professionally in that because it's that moment where you meet that person for the first time. And if you're just giving them some BS card that has nothing, you know, just like company card. But if it's your name, they go, oh, OK, you're Andrew. Yeah, you know, and it makes a connection. Yeah. And that's
00:23:40
Speaker
That's that moment. You know, you only have that one first impression. And to me, it's really it sounds really small and silly, but to me, that's really important. Yeah. I think finally, let's talk for the end of this segment on how do you know when to leave and what are your next steps?
Recognizing and Exiting Dangerous Situations
00:24:00
Speaker
When in doubt, leave. Yeah. Easy.
00:24:03
Speaker
And I think that, you know, for project managers, that's where preparing the staff before they get there for what they might encounter is a good way of
00:24:16
Speaker
Not that you're trying for them not to leave in a dangerous situation, of course, but people are going to feel more uncomfortable if they don't know what they're going to encounter. And then they're surprised by what they encounter when really it may be fine. Let's say as a project manager, I have a client who in that client is the person who's living in that trailer.
00:24:38
Speaker
And they look weird, or they're aggressive. But I've worked with them, and they're cool. But if I don't go and tell the field staff that's going to be there, that this is the kind of individual that you're going to be running into, not that you're making any stereotypes or anything, but that you're saying, it's this person. This is his name. He's expecting you. You need to set up your staff for success.
00:25:08
Speaker
And if you don't, you just say, here's the address, go and do it. That's not setting up your staff for success. And that's when people feel uncomfortable. And that's when people feel uncomfortable, that's when people decide to leave. And it might be premature, where if you were to give them all the information before they get out there,
00:25:25
Speaker
They're less likely to feel uncomfortable and to leave when maybe it wasn't necessary. So I think the key is really a project manager properly preparing their staff, but there are situations. Where I've had staff that have called me.
00:25:41
Speaker
And to me, for those that are as needed and you're afraid, I mean, I was in that position too, where I don't want to be the person who just leaves, right? And so I push it a little bit further and push it a little bit further. And I feel like I'm not in a safe situation, but I don't want to be that person who left the site and didn't finish the work. So if you feel like you're in that situation, you go back to your truck,
00:26:06
Speaker
and you call the person, your contact, the person that sent you on that survey and you explain to them the situation and they can work you through it. That way they have investment. That way they have, they may even know something they should have told you, but they didn't think to tell you.
00:26:22
Speaker
and they can walk you through the situation. Like I've had situations where our client didn't give us all the information and then our staff goes out on site and they get into a hairy situation. They don't feel comfortable. They go in the truck. They call me. I call our client and say, Hey, this is what they encountered. And every, and the guy goes, Oh yeah, yeah, that's so-and-so he's a little squirrely, but he's fine. And then
00:26:48
Speaker
within 20 minutes, every, everything is, is settled and they're able to complete the survey. But if you don't have those lines of communication now a whole day a shot and they have to go back out there. So it's all, it's communication and preparation ahead of time is key to avoiding some of those situations. Indeed. All right. Well with that, let's wrap up this conversation on the other side. We'll be back for seven three in just a moment.
00:27:18
Speaker
Welcome back to the CRM archeology podcast episode 281.
Future Safety Challenges
00:27:22
Speaker
And we're wrapping up this segment by thinking about the new challenges that we might face in the field in the next 10 years. What are some things that, you know, maybe we haven't had to deal with that as in our ever changing world that we may have to deal with. And when I first saw Heather, this note that you wrote here, I was first thinking, especially since we just spent, you know, a month and a half with my, my wife's family and you know, her parents,
00:27:45
Speaker
Well, not her mom necessarily too much, but her dad's like always got Fox News on. And so I get exposed to that every time I go over there. I guess no shade on anybody listens to Fox News. It's just not my thing. But it just made me think that it seems like politically the world in the United States here, especially, and you really see this out West is getting even more polarized than it has been in the past.
00:28:06
Speaker
I mean, it's always, you meet these landowners that are out here in the West and they're in the middle of nowhere. They're there for a reason, right? They want to be in the middle of nowhere. But it seems like this mistrust of the government, mistrust of authority and regulation and all those sorts of things is just getting worse and worse and worse. You'd think it would get, I don't know, better and people would come together as we go forward in society, but it's really not.
00:28:30
Speaker
You know, we can talk about reasons for that on some other podcast and some other show. But I would say that it just seems like it's getting worse and worse. So I think those kinds of things are going to start getting probably more dangerous for archaeologists as well as we go through time. And we're really going to have to be.
00:28:45
Speaker
we're really going to have to be prepared and have our shit together when it comes to what we're going to say and be prepared. And, you know, you always have these pre-field talks with like your PI or something like that. That's like, Oh, we might find matatas and these kinds of features, but you also might find, you know, jackasses with shotguns and that really needs to be talked about. And what is your response to that? You know, we always say, Oh, if you get heat stress, do this. If you get kind of safety is talked about a lot, but I don't remember
00:29:09
Speaker
when I was really involved in those conversations, the discussions with landowners being it was always kind of glossed over just a little bit, but I think it's going to have to take the floor. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, part of the reason why we have some so much polarization is because people assume things about others just based on one point of their, you know, let's say they wear a hat of some political figure and all of a sudden a rush of
00:29:39
Speaker
all the stereotypes come into their head of what this person is and that is the when it comes to safety anybody will say this any safety officer will say this if you have one instance where you assume a bunch of things what are you not doing you're not critically thinking right
00:29:58
Speaker
for what could actually be the danger situation here. So now you've lulled yourself into thinking, oh, well, I know that these things are going to happen because I see this one indicator that's triggering me. And you're not actually thinking about what really could be the danger situation. So I think people need to kind of take a step back and just because you see one thing that makes you assume something,
00:30:24
Speaker
You know, we just you need to really look at the facts that are in front of you. And why are you out there right now? You want to stay safe. So let's look at let's not look at all these other emotional things that could change how and cloud our thinking. Let's look at the facts that are in front of us to make sure that we're in a safe situation. And that's that cool headed critical thinking that is going to keep you safe.
00:30:46
Speaker
Right. And while you do that smile, I'm telling you smile at the other person. Don't just sit there and go like, oh, my God, he's got a MAGA hat on a Fox viewer. You know, he's he's probably a totally cool person. We got to get over this polarized B.S. I'm so sick of it. It's like.
00:31:04
Speaker
just smile and just be like, Hey, I'm here to do this thing. You know, and I swear like, cause if you come in all angry and worried, you look angry and worried. And then the other person feeds off that and it gets worse. Exactly. We just had a project site. In fact,
00:31:19
Speaker
we've had Native American monitors on our site with political hats that you would not expect them to be wearing. So that just shows you there's this is so much more complex and without getting into politics, but people need to step outside of their stereotypes because you can't work with people when you treat them as this composite
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah, that you have no idea that they are so we just had a project site that we're on this past week and it's a and this I think is one that you're going to be seeing even more and more obviously it's it's typical for our field but that is
00:31:58
Speaker
being on a controversial site that people do not want the project to occur. And so you have people that are coming in that see people surveying, they know what that means, or they're seeing equipment, they know what that means. And so you're the first time that they've actually seen a physical representation of a development that they don't want to happen. And how do you handle that?
Community Interaction and Empathy
00:32:21
Speaker
You're not even like, you don't even care whether this thing happens or not, you know, but people are coming up to you. And so what Andrew said is that is the key. Be polite.
00:32:33
Speaker
Totally. And open-minded. Open-minded and don't, like, it's so easy to just say, listen, I'm so sorry, I said, but I'm not at liberty to say. And that's the other thing I always ask clients. How do you want us to describe why we're out there? Right.
00:32:51
Speaker
So it's not just what keeps you safe, but also keeps you from being litigated again. That's a big one. Like I'm glad you brought that up. That's a big one we didn't talk about before is in terms of the safety stuff like no be able to in like three sentences to tell a normal person what the hell you're doing out there. You know, you can't just start going, well, you see archaeology under Section 106. You're like, what? You know, you got to be like, we're doing this thing. Break it down. Basic. And it's really easy.
00:33:18
Speaker
It's really easy. Like, even though you could be the smartest person in the room, smarter than the PI that's assigned, I would not take it upon myself to make it just to describe why I'm out there. What I would do is I would ask the PI in an email, how would you like me to communicate while I'm there? Because that will that will save you long term. And the PI should say, you please say this.
00:33:45
Speaker
I'm here for environmental testing or whatever it is that maybe sometimes they do want to say an archaeological survey. And as a PI, as a project manager, I always ask the client, what do you want us to say? Because I'm telling you, people get, when you have field staff and you haven't prepared them for it, and then they get put into a corner, a myriad of things come out of their mouth.
00:34:10
Speaker
And that's not what you want. That's very important. And it's it's easy, but it's not easy when you're like literally under the gun, you know, and and you just have to blurt it out, you know. So, hey, figure it out. What are you going to say? Run through it in your mind. Talk to yourself in your car on the way over and be like, OK, if somebody says this, I'll just say this, you know, and then you're good. Right. And then friendly, being friendly. It's you know, we were there for a whole week.
00:34:35
Speaker
and interacting with the same people. It's funny how in the beginning of the week, they were kind of antagonistic by the end of the week. Hey Heather, how you doing? You know, joking about what we were doing and everything was fine. And actually it benefited the project because they didn't see it as a, you know, if you have this, like, you know, they hate you. So you're going to hate them back. Right.
00:35:00
Speaker
It never leads to something good. So never having that nuanced ability to interact with people and bring the heat down is an important aspect of this job. It's so huge. And I'm going to admit something right now on this podcast that I've had good times and learned great things from conservative people.
00:35:23
Speaker
Oh, my God. I know. I know. And I've been friends with them and I've talked with them and I think I think good thoughts about them. There you go. Because after all, they are people. I know. Shockingly, yes. And you know what? They're no different from me. I just did the things I learned. But yeah, I just I'm so sick of the polaris polarized crap. It's just like, dude, you know, like my friends.
00:35:51
Speaker
You're so insightful. I just have so much insight.
00:35:55
Speaker
So on that note, just before the segment ends, I did want to talk about a few other things that I see that I think personally, you know, obviously I work on the West Coast. So there may be different things, but things that I think that we need to start thinking about as a discipline, and that is we're going to have an increase in urban environments. You look especially out here in the West Coast, a lot of the development happened almost a hundred years ago.
00:36:24
Speaker
And what's happening now to 100 year old infrastructure is starting to fail. And that's why we're seeing so much upgrades to infrastructure with some of the grants that are coming in with BuildVac America. So you're seeing a lot more work in an urban environment. And so what does that mean? What are those things that you need to prepare yourself for working in an urban environment? Another is
00:36:49
Speaker
the increase in working in extreme environments. So as the technology increases with our discipline, so does the technology allowing us to be in extreme environments in a safe way. And so, you know, I could think, I just was talking to somebody who was doing work in a very cold environment, which would make it difficult to dig, right? Because the
00:37:12
Speaker
the ground is frozen, but now they're coming up with ways which have been around for a while, but they're becoming more prevalent where they can actually heat up the ground and you can dig and you'll be working in environments that previously would not have been hospitable to be working in. And so, you know, it just depends on how much money the client's willing to throw at the company and what the company is willing to do to solve the problem of not being able to work over the winter.
00:37:40
Speaker
Because there are times where there's grants out there that are being funded that have a finite period of time and the client needs it done and they cannot wait for winter to end. And so that's where people get creative.
00:37:57
Speaker
you know, prepare yourself for extreme environments. And then the other is border projects. And there's those are still going on. Right. But more and more as we expand being along the border, it is a it can be a very dangerous area. That is one. I think that if any company is working along the border, they need to have an ever evolving
00:38:21
Speaker
safety training that talks about signs about what you could encounter and because there are some very bad elements along the border that you have to be very careful about.
00:38:36
Speaker
that would definitely put your field crew in great jeopardy. So all these things. And then the final that I was thinking about was also diseases and bacterial infections. Things happen. I'm not talking about COVID. I'm talking about, you know, things that you encounter in the field that change over time. And so you have to always be on top of those things.
00:38:58
Speaker
Indeed. It's a lot of stuff. When I was in the Navy and I worked on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, they always said, keep your head on a swivel. You've got your area, your thing that you're working on, but you don't know if they're turning an F-14 right behind you and going to blow you off the ship. You just got to always be aware of your surroundings. That's really what that means. In that particular situation, it was very
00:39:21
Speaker
It was very poignant. It was like, you definitely need to do that. But in this situation, it's just constantly be aware and follow the mantra, don't be a dick, right? Because people that you're going to encounter, like we've said throughout the show, are very apprehensive about what's going on. They think you're going to steal their land, you personally, probably. And it's just not that way. You've got to be on their side while you're out there. And then when you get back in the office, things can change.
00:39:49
Speaker
You know, the one thing, you know, I was actually talking to somebody this past week, one of our staff that were out there with us and they're like, they asked me, how did, like, how did you get them to be really angry in the week? And then as the week went over, they were fine. And I said, it's, it's two words, which tend to break down. Oh, like bad feelings. Two words. I understand.
00:40:14
Speaker
You're not saying anything. You're not saying, I agree with you. You're not going too far, but just listening to them with a compassionate stance, with a open mind, like Andrew was saying, and just say, I understand, I understand. And when you say that, that breaks down that hardened shell, typically. And you haven't said, I agree with you. You haven't committed to anything. You're just as a,
00:40:43
Speaker
fellow human being, you're saying, I understand that you're upset. You don't have to say that you're upset. Just two words. I understand whatever that means to them, they will fill that in. And that I'm telling you, it works. It just those two words work.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, agreed.
Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement
00:41:01
Speaker
All right. Well, with that, I think that's a good place to end. This was a great topic. Again, if you've got any ideas for us to talk about or things that are frustrating you in the field or something like that, and you might think it'd be a good topic for us to discuss, because there's a lot of experience on this podcast.
00:41:16
Speaker
Sometimes there's just three of us, sometimes there's four or five, and there's a lot of depth there. So we can talk about a lot of things and maybe help out. And we don't have to tell anybody who you are if you don't want us to. If you do, maybe put that in the email. Say, hey, it's OK to mention my name if you want to be called out on the show. But otherwise, we won't do that. All right. Well, with that, I think we will call it. And we'll see you guys all next time. Thanks a lot.
00:41:42
Speaker
That's it for another episode of the CRM Archaeology Podcast. Links to some of the items mentioned on the show are in the show notes for this podcast, which can be found at www.arcpodnet.com slash CRMARC Podcast. Please comment and share anywhere you see the show. If you'd like us to answer a question on a future episode, email us. Use the contact form on the website or just email chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. Support the show and the network at arcpodnet.com slash members. Get some swag and extra content while you're there. Send us show suggestions and interview suggestions.
00:42:12
Speaker
We want this to be a resource for field technicians everywhere and we want to know what you want to know about. Thanks to everyone for joining me this week. Thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field. Goodbye. Thanks for listening. See you guys next time.
00:42:30
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.