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Just Around the Riverbend
37 Plays7 months ago
Have you ever wondered what lessons you would unlearn from a movie you loved as a kid? On this week's episode, my friends Mel and Karen join me to dive into the powerful and problematic world of Pocahontas. We talk about how, as kids in 1995, our naive minds saw a beautiful love story, but now we can't ignore the movie's problematic portrayal of race and history. We explore the character of Pocahontas as a symbol of female empowerment, talk about the courage to go against the grain, and discuss why following your intuition is always the right path.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Spoiler Alert, It's Different Now'
00:00:06
Speaker
This show is not suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:15
Speaker
Buenos dias mi gente! Welcome to Spoiler Alert, it's Different Now, the podcast where we lovingly ruin our childhoods by rewatching movies that definitely should have come with a warning label. I'm your host, Joe Arojas, and each episode, a friend drops by to laugh, cringe, and spiral with me through the cinematic relics of our youth.
00:00:32
Speaker
Because nostalgia is fun. Until you really pay attention.
00:00:38
Speaker
Rated R for Reflection.
Why Pocahontas?
00:00:43
Speaker
Karen and Melanie, welcome to our show. I'm very excited for today's content. Please tell us the movie that you chose and why. We went with a good old classic, Pocahontas.
00:00:56
Speaker
Disney movie, one that actually, I think everyone has watched at one point in their life. I think it's the beautiful Disney movie, right, that...
00:01:07
Speaker
Has a strong woman in it. I just remember seeing it and it was very like, kind of like enlightening because it was very outdoorsy and stuff and I'm that type person. So I feel like when when I saw it, I was intrigued by it, but then I chose it now because I'm like, hmm, there might be other things behind
Rewatching with New Perspectives
00:01:25
Speaker
it. Yeah, like a hidden message. Some things that you don't necessarily think about or look for when you're young. It's just out of curiosity to see it. Yes.
00:01:37
Speaker
For me, it was kind of like a love story, but at the end of the day, it's not. It's not, right? As we will learn. This is the podcast where we rewatch our childhood favorites from a grown-up perspective, and nothing is safe. As we noticed in this Pocahontas rewatch, ah which we had the pleasure of watching together this morning,
00:01:59
Speaker
There was some things that that fell on me as well. And and when i reflect on my first time watching this movie, I believe it was the first time I watched the movie in theaters. So I was seven years old. My aunt was like my favorite aunt, my mother's little sister. She took me out to Warwick Mall in Providence, Rhode Island and took me to to the movies. And I had popcorn. I had little icy.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I remember sitting down and watching this and it was... the first time that I had seen a cartoon on a big screen in that way. And I remember all the colors, you know, and the music. And it was such a really great experience for a seven-year-old girl to be seeing a movie like this for her first time. So that's really all I remember.
00:02:39
Speaker
And to be honest, I haven't watched this movie since. So now we are 30 years later and I got to watch it with you guys. And I just thought that Like you said, is it's it's just not what we thought it was.
Historical Context and Modern Parallels
00:02:54
Speaker
Disney has done some tricks in our lives.
00:02:55
Speaker
think was seven, I would say, as well. In my room, I think. backing We were living in Guatemala then, I believe. And same thing. It's like a hype, right? Yay, the other Disney movie that came out.
00:03:08
Speaker
So i came I watched it with a perspective of a joyful love story. There's little creatures running around. oh But I was about seven, I would say.
00:03:18
Speaker
I don't remember how old I was. I know probably around the same age as you guys, but my dad, I watched my dad and he always made fun of the name and I never thought anything of him. Just like, okay, here's this brown girl who fell in love with this white man and it's so cute and all the colors and the song and it's so cute, but man, what...
00:03:46
Speaker
a crazy spin like when you watch it now like what the disney was really trying to teach you something what what do you think hits different now that you watch it back what what specifically were some of the things that stood out to you the history it's like about america like people trying to take away from something that's not even theirs and making people feel smaller and judging and just Disappointing. I think right off the bat, right, the first song that comes up is something about gold and and mine and taking over. so So as an adult now watching it, I was like, whoa, the first punch came right off the bat.
00:04:26
Speaker
Like, we're going to go somewhere. We're going to take this. It's not yours, right? But we want it. And we're going go get it. right That drive. And i was like, damn, okay. Just go and take it, huh? Let's go. And that drive was so prevalent at the time, right? We're talking Pocahontas is set in 1607 in what would become Jamestown, Virginia.
00:04:47
Speaker
And the opening scene is them on the sailboat and they're, you know, in rough seas. And their whole goal is to get... you know, to this new world. And John Smith is talking to the governor and he's pretty much like, I've been to a hundred new worlds.
00:05:00
Speaker
what This can be no different, right? Like what's so special about this place? And it just made me think like, wow, they were really out here just conquering and invading and raping and doing all the things so nonchalantly. Like, and this is the first scene of the movie is we're going to go take this new world and for the gold and whatever riches it would bring for them.
00:05:21
Speaker
So, Yeah, I think you're right. The opening scene definitely, as an adult, snaps you back to ah more mature outlook on what is happening in the world
Influence of Storytelling on Perceptions
00:05:30
Speaker
right now. Yeah, when you're a kid, that's a song. You probably sing along to it or, you know, it' not necessarily paying attention to the words.
00:05:37
Speaker
What's crazy is that our parents would put these movies on for us. They did not know what they were about. Like, sit here and watch this girl sing and run. Because label, Disney. Yeah. You're not going question it. Exactly.
00:05:48
Speaker
But hold on, because I was thinking the same thing. Our parents are first generation. They don't necessarily know the history of the United States, but they do know the history of the Dominican Republic.
00:06:00
Speaker
And those same Europeans ended up on their shores. And there's a shared history there. And also, I was thinking about the fact that, OK, so maybe our maybe our immigrant parents... that are busy making sure that we survive are not paying attention to Pocahontas' message.
00:06:15
Speaker
But there was many American parents that sat down with their kids that spoke fluent English. And I wonder now, did they pick up on how terrible this messaging is for for young people? Because it's geared towards kids, right?
00:06:29
Speaker
and think about that That's a good point. Yeah. I'm sure there was more of a... sugarcoating, maybe when the the American parent that understands the song and the message, I wonder if there's a percentage of parents that digged in and explained, or it was kind of like the movie ended and, did you like it? Yeah.
00:06:50
Speaker
Right? You're going to be Pocahontas Halloween, right? Yeah. Right. Just keep it moving, right? Not necessarily a breakdown of what really did. This movie came out in 1995. So, you know, I think it is telling of the times.
00:07:04
Speaker
that they were able to present this so freely while also not... Like, for us, it's in plain sight. In 1995, again, 30 years ago, people weren't talking so freely about white supremacy oralrusion or or interracial marriage on this scale.
00:07:24
Speaker
I think our awareness and our perspective of these issues are way brighter now. You know, like, it's in our face. but We're a different generation, right? Our parents, I wonder, even for the ones that did understand what was happening, if it just went over their head, where it just... mean, now our generation, too, is more in our face.
00:07:40
Speaker
Our phones, TikTok, and all that stuff. Our parents maybe heard about it, but it wasn't in their face every single day. and Enough for them to say, like, this actually, this happened right now recently in this state, or this crime is happening here, or the racial stuff, so...
00:07:58
Speaker
Now we have it in our face. Let's just give it to the parents back then and it wasn't in their face maybe as much.
Cultural Clashes and Historical Inaccuracies
00:08:06
Speaker
That's the excuse i would give.
00:08:09
Speaker
And like you said, it's Disney. Like you would assume anything that Disney puts out is for kids and it's not anything dark. but yeah Was there anything in the movie that you rewatched and like, wait, was that always a part of the movie?
00:08:28
Speaker
Did I miss that? mean, saying savages, saying, I think at one point they said like pale demons. um I'm pretty sure they mentioned a lot of like killing and like gun stuff and all of that. So now when I heard it, I was kind of like, yo, like there was, it was point blank.
00:08:48
Speaker
We are going there to kill and take. um There was even a little like, Like comedy in between, I think the natives were saying like, this is our land are we're going protect it And literally the next clip is the sheaf. I'm not sure he his name again.
00:09:06
Speaker
Literally just puts a stick on the ground and says something like, this is ours. Just like that. um like i procra i I proclaim this land yeah in name of King James I of England. that's it We shall call it Jamestown.
00:09:20
Speaker
Like that's literally all it's up. I'm like, oh my God. That is literally all it took. But technically nowadays too, like war, right? Now we're coming.
00:09:31
Speaker
Hold on. There's people here and kids and you can't just come in and overtake. So that to me was like, wow. Just do as you yeah if you please and and fight and hopefully you win. And if you win, end of story.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, the greed was too much. It just didn't make sense. These people are living... their lives and they're fine and they haven't bothered anyone and you come and just kill and it didn't make sense to me. Like, wow, we're really watching this right now.
00:10:02
Speaker
And the name calling was ver literally savage. Like, burn like the tail be and time I think for me it was like when the chief was saying like, I don't understand this wound when the guy was laying down cause he got shot and he's like, I don't know what, like, what is this?
00:10:20
Speaker
That spoke a lot. like People use these guns to hurt people and they're like using spears and stuff like that, but they never seen a wound like this. like Why would someone do this? or how can someone do this? thing Could you imagine what it would be like to seeing seeing a gun for the first time when you've never seen one and now you have hundreds of men coming on your land with firepower? like Thunder something. like You made a reference. like It's like this thunder of fire stick or something like that.
00:10:52
Speaker
yeah
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah. The parallel that was drawn for me with the conquering state of mind, right? Like, again, this is 1607. So the world is carved the way that it is right now because of the actions of these Europeans that sailed, you know, sailed the seven seas and just put their flags down and said, this is mine. 1607.
00:11:25
Speaker
sixteen or seven As I was watching this movie and watching the Englishmen heading to Virginia and and they just want the gold and they just want the land and they want the riches and the governor's very set on fixing his reputation and pleasing the king, kept thinking of Gaza.
00:11:45
Speaker
I was like, 2025, what does this look like? And it's Gaza. It's Israel literally walking into Gaza, Palestine, and saying, this is mine.
Character Development and Themes
00:11:55
Speaker
and building housing and then walking onto another part further along and saying, this is also mine.
00:12:02
Speaker
And the reason why it's mine is because you guys are vermin and you are bottom of humanity and you are dirty people and you are not deserving. And this is prime real estate and therefore we want to take it.
00:12:14
Speaker
And now you have somebody like President wannabe Donald Trump, right? Saying we're going to build resorts in Gaza because that brings us riches and we're going to extort and extract from this land.
00:12:25
Speaker
People be damned.
00:12:28
Speaker
Right. So it was just like, here we are 400 years later. And that's exactly why I think it has now seen it in this moment. It it actually opens up.
00:12:48
Speaker
take a break? No, I'm good.
00:12:55
Speaker
It's like the the repetition that's happening, right?
00:13:01
Speaker
And it's the... I don't even know what word to use, but like disgustingness that's happening, right? So seeing something that you give yourself the power, your hierarchy, and just pump your chest out, and because you have the funds, because you have the people that you have brainwashed and the masses...
00:13:20
Speaker
And now you're able to go conquer the natives. Exactly what you just said right now. We have the power, so try us. We're going to push. You can't push hard enough. going push even harder.
00:13:32
Speaker
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. The whole immigrant situation that's happening now... You freaking label it as crime and da da da, but those are just little labels enough for the people to be like, yeah, they're immigrants on the crime. If it's about crime, then you're going to be talking about everyone else. The Americans are also doing it.
00:13:53
Speaker
So like kind of like rolling it back. It's that hierarchy that they give themselves to the point that more land, We win. The people that were destroyed through it, we don't give a damn. Send them back.
00:14:05
Speaker
Or go get out of somewhere else and find where you're going find your new home or whatever it is. so It's just wild to me to see that and then be now and be like, oh, it's nothing of the past. Is that what happened?
00:14:20
Speaker
No, it's happening right now. First moment. Yeah, it's crazy to think it was our first case study on white supremacy. And it was dressed up in colorful magic and talking trees. Mm-hmm.
00:14:33
Speaker
Now, I do want to point out, like, what you just said, like, the singing trees and all of that. I feel like um they should have emphasized or been more clear when it comes to that connection.
00:14:46
Speaker
Spiritual intuition. Mm-hmm. I forgot the name of the tree or whatever. Mother with the mother. Mother with mother. Yeah. Like, you know, you know what you want and just follow that. And the color of the window, I feel like that's intuition that we need to continue to follow. But we have suppressed it or you're wrong and whatever. Right. However we were raised and what we believe in now. Mm hmm.
00:15:09
Speaker
But think at one point, I want to say there's a connection between John showing her the compass. Like, that's how he was guided. By the superficial piece of metal that guides him. Right.
00:15:22
Speaker
And then she goes and explains to him about Earth, about water, the rivers. Even I think he wanted to kill a bear at one point. And then the bear goes and has a family, like a little cubs. like we We have lost track and connection with...
00:15:38
Speaker
if we really if we really sit down and feel and be one with Earth, we're going learn a lot. And on top of that, that person over there has the same feeling that you do as well. So can we just talk about it? Can we not fight about it?
00:15:55
Speaker
So I feel like the the message of the the even the majestic song of The Color of the Winds, there's more to it, but it just kind of became a jingle as opposed to more of a...
00:16:07
Speaker
or really significant message that I think could have been amplified a little bit more. absolutely
00:16:16
Speaker
There's ah hidden message that I picked up on. You guys might've picked up on it too. Her father gifts to Pocahontas' father is the chief, Chief Padawan. He is the chief of all the nations down there in the Virginia, you know present Virginia area.
00:16:32
Speaker
And he gives her her late mother's necklace that she wore on her wedding day. And in this moment, Pocahontas is telling her father about this dream that she continues to have.
00:16:44
Speaker
And the dream is telling her that something big is going to happen. And the father's like, of course, something big is going to happen. couum Yeah. Right. This beer warrior is going to ask for your hand in marriage.
00:16:55
Speaker
And Pocahontas thinks that while that's flattering, there's another path for her. Right. Which is pretty much saying, like, great, thank you for planning out my life. But I got other things in mind. And she felt like this dream was what was guiding that. And the response that her father gives her is be sturdy like the river.
00:17:13
Speaker
And Pocahontas' response is a song right that pops up and is just around the river bend, which is her pretty much explaining that if she can go past what is expected of her, that there's a bigger world out there available to her if she just breaks out of the mold that has been set.
00:17:28
Speaker
And I thought that was a powerful message for somebody like a young girl at the time. And again, I don't remember watching this at seven, but I appreciated that they had put that level of woman empowerment.
00:17:40
Speaker
And you see it throughout the movie and other scenes. They focused on Pocahontas being strong-willed and... independent and determined for her own path
Personal 'Riverbend' Moments and Family Expectations
00:17:50
Speaker
and carving that whatever that may be and giving her the autonomy to kind of explore that even though she had a father that very much wanted to structure that so I just in watching that back I picked that up and I was just like this is such a great song right because she's saying like just around the river bend there's all these magical possibilities and opportunities if I could just get off being sturdy right which is the path that my father has set on this you know um metaphorical river yeah
00:18:15
Speaker
good point I think it was cool that she was confident or adamant enough that she wanted to try something different. And then at the end of the movie, he's saying, oh, my daughter is wise behind beyond her years.
00:18:31
Speaker
Like, okay, now you're recognizing. And although I want to do something different, I don't want to marry what was it, Coco or something? Coco. oh Go for him. Yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
She didn't want to marry him. But she had the option to leave too, but she was still true and stayed with her family. So it's like she did her own thing, but at the same time, she's still, i don't know to explain it. Like, she's still around to with tell her family. Yes.
00:19:00
Speaker
Although she was still trying to experience her own things. And that kind of reminds us of us. Like we grow up a certain way. Our parents do things a certain way. Or don't cry. You're a man. or don't show emotion. Don't do this. Don't do that.
00:19:14
Speaker
But now we're trying to break out that mold and show our kids a little bit different. But still have the same values or a little bit of the same thing that our parents taught us. But not so much to extent.
00:19:25
Speaker
Does make sense? Mm-hmm. It's literally like the song with the riverbender. Our parents try to guide us as much as possible. They tell us, you know, I did this. If you do this as well, you'll most likely land further out.
00:19:39
Speaker
But there's such thing as venturing out and you're going to be okay right around the riverbend. So for me, going around the riverbend meant enlisting in the Marine Corps 17 and leaving to boot camp five days after high school graduation, which landed me in California a very young age.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I got to see a lot of different cultures and different parts of the world through my military service. And i felt like that was my rebellious stage experience.
00:20:13
Speaker
in life, like when it came down to ah pivotal point in my life where I can say that completely changed my trajectory, my river bend was joining the military. So for my question for you guys is, at what point in your life do you feel that happened for you?
00:20:29
Speaker
Where you ventured out past the path that your parents set for you? oh oh I think the classic college school. that's going to set you up for success.
00:20:42
Speaker
I have my younger sister, college graduate, career, or the whole shebang when it comes to a label to her status, I guess you can say. that's the That's the part that I didn't follow that river.
00:20:54
Speaker
Instead, i I made my own with Testing out what what do i really like? What do I want to wake up to? Within the hurdles that happen from high school till now, thankfully i have a business that helps my family as well. That maybe if I would have the label of the graphic designer or something, because I went to college and because I'm in bed and because I did this, I have to stick to this route.
00:21:20
Speaker
But pushing back and saying, i I don't know what I want to go to college because I'm not going to. Mm-hmm. That's the part of the the the contrast that got me to where I am.
00:21:31
Speaker
and And then also think the whole being gay, right? like Yeah. Great. Nobody in my family encouraged it. you know It was accepted. I feel very blessed to have been accepted with tears in their eyes, right?
00:21:47
Speaker
But... That's the other one that's like, I could just, you know, go this route. But no, you got to stay true. what What happens if I do follow what I feel and talk to her and date her? And next thing you know, you know, married, family, life, and everyone around me is in love of it.
00:22:07
Speaker
So that's the little challenge, the push. And then just around the riverbank, you know, we have what we actually Our true self-forms. Yeah.
00:22:18
Speaker
They have this vision of our lives that they want us to do for me. I feel like having you know getting married to a man and having kids is what everybody wants for their daughter, what parents want for their daughter.
00:22:33
Speaker
But I'm so happy that I waited and I didn't do it and right away. Or I just... Wasn't pressured. Like my mother wants to be a grandmother. She wants to be a grandmother. I have to make her a grandmother. And I was able to to wait and do it at later time, but find my true happiness, you know? And like you said, the whole gay thing, obviously it's not ideal for our parents.
00:22:58
Speaker
It's accepting now, but, and we're very blessed to have family that, does love us no matter what. So definitely my dad did not want that for me.
00:23:08
Speaker
But now look at him. 80-something years old, calling my fiancee his other daughter. Like, that's wild. Right. It's just... Holy crap. That is crazy to me.
00:23:34
Speaker
Mother Willow is the tree that Pocahontas goes to visit. And one of the messages she has is to listen to the spirits for guidance, right? That the spirits are in the wind, that they're in the wolf's howl, it's in the moon, it's in all the things around us.
00:23:51
Speaker
And depending on, you know, which route you go with spirituality or religion, the answer may be different for for many out there. What... spirits guided you guys or what what were the voices I guess is the best way to to say what were the voices that guided you guys as you made your journey around the riverbend think for me would be my mom and my best friend like I value their opinions my mom always wanted the best for me no matter what and my best friend always is the person to like kind of check me like
00:24:25
Speaker
get me kind of like, okay, like you should like kind of guide me in a way like this is what I think. And it's always, it's always made me feel so good because they just want, truly want the best for me. When you feel that energy, that positivity for you, it's just like, how can I not listen to what they're telling me? don't know. I'll be lying. I can't.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think family has always been a huge support for me, no matter what direction. i don't have anything against what they thought was the best for me. But I would have to say intuition for me was always unconsciously a thing.
00:25:07
Speaker
From simple of, thank you mom for paying me for college, but I'm not going to go next semester. Just following my own intuition. To, I think, as an adult, the past seven, eight years, that's when i have friends who have introduced me to breathwork, meditation, things to just kind of be in tune with yourself. Mm-hmm.
00:25:32
Speaker
Until this day, you know, it's like sit down and like, what do I feel? Like, bre where does my heart want to go? Check in with yourself. Not your mind because your mind is going to compare and contrast. And she said and he said and he's done it. And social media makes that so hard.
00:25:49
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. So, yeah, the tapping of intuition And believing that it's the right thing to do even if it doesn't work out, I think that's what has guided me through.
00:26:01
Speaker
And with time, I've expanded a little bit more. But yeah, just just some just feel. knowll And I'll go and I'll try it.
00:26:12
Speaker
miss
00:26:23
Speaker
Pocahontas. I think did a great job in singing Colors of the Wind back to John Smith. She was like, you you don't know what it is. You have no idea, right? It was like, you are so ignorant.
00:26:39
Speaker
I might be ignorant, but you're ignorant because you're so ah materialistic. You're here to blow up and dig the land for gold that doesn't even exist here, by the way.
00:26:50
Speaker
And for us, gold, for her, gold was corn. Oh, we have that. And she shows him an air of corn. And it's so true, right? we We have to kind of strip back to the basics and and get back to being present and understanding really what life is
Colonialism and Systematic Oppression
00:27:08
Speaker
supplying for us. like I think that was such a ah great example of what she thought abundance was.
00:27:12
Speaker
She... In Colors of the Wind, it's a beautiful song. But if you listen to the lyrics, she's telling him, like, she's giving him a read. You don't know this. You've never felt that. You can't even ah imagine this. Like, and this is my life. This is what we experience, right? You're coming from an unknown land here and you have no idea what you're stepping into. You think this is just land for grabs to build on and kill on and...
00:27:37
Speaker
we have all these ties and you can never understand what that is. And I thought it was so telling of how I look at with white supremacy now, right? People to me that are white supremacists are so out of tune with what this nation specifically, right? Talking about America is abundant in, and that's diversity.
00:27:59
Speaker
And that's you know different perspectives and thoughts and cultures and walks of life. And that makes us as a people stronger. And white people are so out of tune with what community and growth and what that right that stripped down to the basics looks like because they have years of just wanting to be in power and take, take, take, that they can't even fathom just being one with the wind or...
00:28:23
Speaker
what it is to be friends with the mountains and talk to the moon. And I'm not saying all white people, right? But white supremacists specifically missed the mark as to why we all should coexist and be in harmony and be able to right be abundant altogether. So I just thought it was an interesting song because it's one of the only Disney movies to ever win an Oscar for original song and original scores.
00:28:48
Speaker
And it's a read on John Smith. It's pretty much... calling him out for being ignorant to all of the riches outside of the gold that doesn't exist. Yeah, the priority is completely of whack when it comes to that.
00:29:04
Speaker
think he was even explaining like, we'll teach you how to build this then that and that love and then I think that's when the song kind of kicks in. And I thought it was hilarious that she did say, we don't have this here.
00:29:15
Speaker
You guys still are making this chaos yet. That's not even here. We're good. yeah We're good. If they didn't have the gold, what are they going to do with it? like Where are they using it? Where are they spending it? They're exchanging it for other goods. but The point is that her gold was the corn.
00:29:37
Speaker
and That was enough. and Everyone was in harmony. Yet, the others just want to take, take, take and blow it up. It was interesting because they showed up like, oh, these are savages and we have to teach them, right? Like we know better. We need to teach them. And then at the same time, it was like, these people are different. They're not to be trusted. They're savages. we need to kill them. We need to build a fort.
00:30:01
Speaker
And it was like, they called them an evil race at one point. I was like, that's so telling of the justifications that are given, whether it's Native Americans that they referred to as savages throughout the whole movie, which for me was just crazy after a while. I was like, was this always here? This is a little much.
00:30:20
Speaker
But yeah, again, it was just like we, you know, i served during Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, which is Iraq and Afghanistan. And I deployed in 2008.
00:30:31
Speaker
And I remember a lot of us, you know, the messaging that we get, these are like tribal people and they're not advanced people. These are third worlds. And we're here to kind of show them civility and democracy. And it's up to us. We're the white saviors to fix them.
00:30:47
Speaker
And i was too young and naive and not educated enough to understand how I was being used as a pawn and in this false messaging. Because at the end of the day, we weren't there to save the people, right? We were there to avenge 9-11 and to take oil fields and anything else that we could extract from Iraq and Afghanistan and at the cost of thousands of American lives, plus all the veterans that are walking around fucked up, right? So it hit a little different for me because I was just like, this is the message that we give to justify why we invade places.
00:31:16
Speaker
And why we occupy places is they can't do for themselves. So we're going to do for them. We see this in the streets with how we have systematic oppression of certain classes and races and genders, Black people.
00:31:31
Speaker
for example, well, they don't know better. They can't take care of themselves. So they we're going to assume them into a structure such as project housing or welfare. And we're going to give the bare minimum and scraps.
00:31:43
Speaker
And we're going to teach them that this is the way to live. And we're going to make them dependent on it because it makes us richer in the process because we can continue to exploit. I just thought, you know, in in the last 30 years, all that has happened is the magnifying glass has been expanded for many of us to see. And now we're way more aware that there's certain white supremacist actions that are systematically designed to keep certain people down.
00:32:12
Speaker
And when we look at, like you were saying, the immigrant population, we're being told they're dirty, they're rapists, they're criminals, they're stealing jobs. There's all these negative connotations that are meant to justify them kidnapping people off the street, regardless of what their citizen status is. it And so it was just jarring to me. I sat here like most of the time, just shaking my head. I was like, this is crazy. Papa, you're talking negative about people to make you feel better about doing this negative action towards them. How are they savages?
00:32:44
Speaker
They're living perfectly fine. no one's bought like they not They're not bothering you. Why do you come here so gung-ho that this is yours and they're wrong? i have to teach them better. They don't want to know better. This is their happiness, but...
00:32:59
Speaker
You're saying, you know, these white people, all they talk about is the negativity towards other races that are not them. like trying to make them better, or try putting them lower than them. Like, I don't i don't understand that. I don't get that.
00:33:15
Speaker
I mean, but it's it's rooted in our history at this point, right? Like it's cultural for white supremacists to believe that they are high and mighty. um And there's a sense of community there, especially when you have a country that is increasingly becoming more black, white, yellow, brown, right? All of the things.
00:33:32
Speaker
It's a threat, right? And we see that in the way that policy plays out. Roe versus Wade was overturned because they felt that white people were being wiped out and therefore we were going to overtake the population of America as minorities now becoming the majority.
00:33:51
Speaker
They were afraid of white people being eliminated. So now if you can't get an abortion, therefore more white babies, that's the target is for more more white babies to be born and we save our population. Right? So there's this fear, um, that they carry, that they are going to be replaced.
00:34:09
Speaker
the great replacement, so to say. And so now a lot of their policies is geared towards pushing back on us, you know, advancing in any way and allowing space for them to secure their current status.
00:34:24
Speaker
And it's pretty scary because... We have kids growing up in this society that we, over the last 30 years, would hope maybe even longer, but definitely since 1995, we've been pushing LGBT rights. We've been pushing, making sure that there's fair pay for and reducing the gender gap and making sure that the education achievement gap is closed and making sure that HBCUs are funded and that we can advance all people. We've spent a lot of time over the last 30 normalizing
00:34:57
Speaker
normalizing the strengths of diversity and having different people influence how this nation functions. And i i am often sad for my children because I'm like, man, they may not experience life in the way that we did where was so progressive.
00:35:14
Speaker
So it's just scary, you know, when i when I just look at what's different from then to now. Back then, a lot of things were taboo. You didn't talk about all these things in 1995, right? Now we do. And now it's very much in danger of us being othered as lesbian parents that are married with kids, right? And living in a Southern state. Or what does that look like when there's other parts of life that happen that require legal education?
00:35:38
Speaker
review, right? And what does that look like in the next couple of years for the safety of our children to feel normal as we have worked so hard to make sure that everybody feels? Yeah, very unfortunate, but like you said, we worked so hard and it it did feel like a very uphill, right?
00:35:56
Speaker
From, I mean, I don't have as much knowledge in the whole politics and all of that, but it's ah it felt like a And then I'm unfortunate of this guy.
00:36:09
Speaker
feels very like, whoa, hold on. like Why are we like being stripped back to something so separation and all of that? so It seems so archaic now. It seems so old. Oh my gosh.
00:36:23
Speaker
It's so good. You're so bored that you're just like taking all this stuff back or you want to be... But it shows how much we've taken for granted as well as i think that the millennial generation has definitely been given a lot of life. why we are We are traumatized by a lot of the things that our life has presented for us in the short time that we've been here. 37 years is not a long time for history, right? and In our 37 years, we've experienced 9-11, recessions, Columbine, and every other school shooting that followed.
00:36:54
Speaker
We've experienced a 20-year war in Iraq. We are still dealing with Russia. We're still dealing with an immigration crisis, right? There's Black Lives Matter has happened. The recession has happened twice. We're probably headed towards another Great Depression.
00:37:06
Speaker
There's a pandemic that shut down the world, right? All these
Cultural Evolution and Historical Research
00:37:10
Speaker
things. But we also went to school with people of all types of backgrounds, and we got to play and interact and grow together and learn from each other. we got to decide who we wanted to love.
00:37:24
Speaker
We got to be recognized, right, by states and cities and administrations legally of for who we are and what we wanted to do in life. We were given the opportunity to, we were encouraged and given more opportunity to go to college and pursue our dreams. We are ah very conflicted generation.
00:37:44
Speaker
And I think it's unfortunate that in all the chaos that has happened to us and all the progression that has also been attained in that chaos, that that'll fall short for the next generation, which is not really how life usually works, right? Like we want to give them better than what we had.
00:38:02
Speaker
And I just don't have trust and confidence in that these days. Yeah, that was very well put. Especially the fact that we can't shadow the opportunities, like you said, that we have been given and where we are right now.
00:38:15
Speaker
But... the The conflict of what's to happen is it is a little scary, especially for family, kids and stuff like that.
00:38:46
Speaker
So one of the characters I related to was Thomas. Do you remember who Thomas was? Yeah. Thomas was the soldier that couldn't shoot and was pretty much told, you're not a man if a man is not a man if he does not know how to shoot.
00:39:00
Speaker
One, toxic masculinity. Super toxic. I thought that was, I thought it was interesting how much violent references there were in a movie met for kids in 1995.
00:39:11
Speaker
It was very violent. But he had a good heart and he was actually one of the characters at the end that stepped in and was like, no, right, stop the fighting and I'm not going to shoot so-and-so. And he stood his ground at the end. And I felt that it was indicative of
00:39:28
Speaker
the
00:39:31
Speaker
the character that kind of needs to to carry the torch against what's wrong, right? He recognized that the governor was completely tapped in his approach in conquering this land.
00:39:43
Speaker
that a lot of the soldiers didn't agree in killing the natives to stay on this land. a lot of the the Englishmen at this point were over it. They're like, it's too cold or it's too hot. I hate it here. I want to go home.
00:39:55
Speaker
And so I just thought it was like Thomas was the good guy. i just thought about the placement that somebody thought of this, right? Like somebody thought of Thomas as the character.
00:40:06
Speaker
And if you do a little background research, The real Pocahontas went on to marry not John Smith, although John Smith and her interaction is loosely documented.
00:40:17
Speaker
And so it's been debated by historians whether their interaction happened, whether they actually met. But she ended up marrying an Englishman, John Ralph. And their son's name was Thomas.
00:40:30
Speaker
So I just thought it was interesting how they tied that in the movie. And Thomas was the good guy with the good heart that wanted to kind of take the most peaceful route every step he could throughout the movie.
00:40:41
Speaker
So I just thought it was interesting how the writers included her son. and They actually changed her name when she went back to Rebecca, I think. ah So for Thomas, that's very interesting.
00:40:54
Speaker
the Do you have any thought about him shooting, killing, and then kind of like, run, like, you know, like this didn't happen under your watch or something?
00:41:10
Speaker
I agree with you that he was a kind-hearted and just manipulated into the system, I guess you can say. ah But the fact that he's the one that shot or killed, yeah, I was like, huh, interesting that they selected him to be that person.
00:41:25
Speaker
I think it they wanted to develop him to rise to the occasion. Not necessarily that he wanted to kill him. i think he had something to prove. yeah And that's why i tied that to the toxic masculinity, right? He was pretty much told he was a failure and you're a disappointment and you suck at shooting and keep your eyes open, and right? and you And he says it, right? He even prepares shoot Kokomo and he's he says, you know, both eyes open and he he repeats what he was instructed to do.
00:41:56
Speaker
And I think it was that for me. It was an indication of... toxic masculinity and and the messaging that young boys are given. Because Thomas does appear like a young boy for being on a ship.
00:42:07
Speaker
I don't know exactly how old he was, the movie never tells us. Yeah, have good point that didn't catch the Thomas part.
00:42:30
Speaker
Mel, you mentioned how she ended up having a name change, right? so and And I also mentioned about how she didn't marry John Smith in the real Pocahontas story. She is the daughter of the chief of tribes, Chief Padawan in present-day Virginia.
00:42:47
Speaker
At 10 years old, around 1607, she was introduced to the Englishmen who had just conquered and invaded what is now Jamestown. So the story is, for six years, the Englishmen and her tribes are going back and forth in terms of trying to find gold or trying to conquer land.
00:43:12
Speaker
And she grows up watching this because her dad is the chief. So around 16 years old, the Englishmen realize her importance and the value that she has. And so they kidnap her and they hold her hostage for peace talks.
00:43:27
Speaker
The peace talks are successful and they refer to the time where there's peace between the Englishmen and these tribes as Peace of Pocahontas, right? This is what historians will refer to it as.
00:43:42
Speaker
At 16, 17 years old, she's kidnapped by the Englishman. She's held hostage. She is converted to Christianity, which is when she gets the name changed to Rebecca. And at 17 years old, she is married to Englishman John Rolfe.
00:43:59
Speaker
Not out of love, what like it's portrayed in the Pocahontas movie, but to keep peace. So the idea was that as the first Native American and white marriage in the new world, it would keep peace between the families now, right?
00:44:15
Speaker
And avoid further suffering of all peoples. So if we unite, the violence stops. So this is loosely portrayed in the movie, but she marries to continue the peace.
00:44:30
Speaker
The marriage did calm tensions. and They had a son named Thomas Rolfe. And he was pretty much the heir that tied the new world to the old world.
00:44:42
Speaker
And Pocahontas, now Rebecca, actually went on to meet King James and Queen Anne. And unfortunately, by 21 years old, she had fell succumbed to her illnesses and she died.
00:44:54
Speaker
So she never made it back to present-day Virginia. She learned how to live in England. She walked around as an other right Could you imagine a Native American woman with a badass tan showing up in London, walking around these towering buildings and the streets and going over the bridges that covered rivers, which is all the things that they said they were going do for them over in Virginia.
00:45:18
Speaker
Now she's in that world and she's the only person that looks like that. And she survived three, four years before she got sick and died. But she was the symbol for cultural exchange and peacekeeping. Right.
00:45:32
Speaker
for the um ah the new peoples and the new world here in America. So she definitely has ah an interesting story and a tragic one, right? it's not the It's not the ending that we see at the end, which was very empowering.
00:45:45
Speaker
I found that ending very empowering. i was I didn't remember how it ended, so i was very so pleasantly surprised that it was her left on the end of the cliff overseeing the ship sailing off and she decides to stay with her tribe on her land.
00:46:00
Speaker
And she knew that as the daughter of the chief that this was all hers, right? Like it it was such an empowering moment for me. ah feel different. Yeah. I don't think it it was...
00:46:12
Speaker
Because of what I know ah the actual person Pocahontas, I think they cut her short in a way that didn't justify her horrible life. So yes, the ending was empowering, but knowing the truth, I think they didn't give her But then again, this is not the time to do it in a Disney movie, I guess. but yeah um But just to add on from a little bit that I know, um they technically don't know if that was his son because she was raped multiple times throughout the journey going back.
00:46:46
Speaker
And while they were there, so they don't even know who the real father is. And in addition to that, they kept promising her that they were going to go back. They were going to back to dad and her land.
00:47:01
Speaker
And whatever was accomplished, and they said, sure, let's go back. they made They had a dinner for her, and it seems like they poisoned her. And she died.
00:47:12
Speaker
She was 21, think. 21, I think. There was no illness of like, oh man, she's been sick. So it was actually ah my understanding done out of spite. Just like, okay, we got what we needed.
00:47:25
Speaker
Sure, we'll take you back. You just ruined this for her. Ruined it for her too. never she They think they they told her too that her dad didn't want her anymore. At one point they brought her sisters and then her sisters...
00:47:40
Speaker
verified, like, no, we miss you. We need you back home. And then that's when the pleading, and like, can I please go? And then that's... She was killed, technically. oh my God. Mm-hmm.
00:47:51
Speaker
What a terrible event. And the father wanted her body back. Mm-hmm. And they did not. They ended up wearing her out of nowhere and whatever, right? And I think they have a statue over her in Virginia, of course, trying to give her what... Memorial.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But... Even her body wasn't even returned. Yeah, I did hear that. She she never returned. Oh, my gosh.
00:48:20
Speaker
and Why did Disney make this movie? Right. it was its first movie that was It was its first animated movie made after a real person. That was the breakthrough moment of this movie. And they had all these consultants, Native American consultants, to try to make it as accurate as they could.
00:48:38
Speaker
And so it's just... But it's 1995. Like I said, right? Like, you're not going to tell us that. Why would you tell us that? That makes y'all look crazy, right? And so I understand it because it's it's not exactly brown brown and black executives that are running Disney in 1995. So you can't put that on Front Street.
00:48:55
Speaker
I wonder if also it's almost like you want to... Give some type of applaud to the people that pushed for this movie. Because maybe it was like, let's plant this seed.
00:49:07
Speaker
And whoever wants to follow through and know who she is, they're going to know that this is not. But sure, let's make millions with this Disney movie. But let's kind of throw a little rock out there and let them find out.
00:49:23
Speaker
Like a little breadcrumb, like little trail. Yeah, so technically, I want to say, I would kind of want to... Give them a little bit of praise of putting something like that up front on the screen.
00:49:35
Speaker
How do we feel about Disney focusing heavy on romantic storylines for these type of movies? Look at me. That's the reason why I like Pocahontas, because of the cute little love story. I think they need that to draw that type of audience.
00:49:51
Speaker
It's still a business, I would say. Yeah, they they have to put a little bit of glitter on it. they can't tell the real story of Pocahontas to kids. that That would be wild. But did they have to fall in love, I guess is my question, right? like Is there a Pocahontas movie without John Smith and Pocahontas falling in love? I think her story, even without giving all the tragic pieces, if we're focusing on just her contributions and what she meant in the moment, which is also what the movie's trying to get at,
00:50:22
Speaker
Did we need her to fall in love with John Smith? I don't think it was necessary, especially if it wasn't confirmed. just need to try monopolize on that time and that type of audience. They want to get everybody in there. but really bothers me.
00:50:37
Speaker
It's like the movies nowadays. I don't know if you guys, and I don't know if I should even go off topic, but... Cinderella, the new live human movie, right but she doesn't really, like, she doesn't end up with the dude.
00:50:52
Speaker
they're trying to empower, they're switch it up now. Back then, it was like, you need a man. Right, there's a half of your brother. You need to have Like, to have kids and we need to... This is how it ends. That's usually how all movies end up. That was the recipe for the toys, for the girls, for the... Everything. So if it's working, let's keep it up. Right. The business part. part And now we're more empowered and we're like, no First of all, I don't need a man. And I'll be fine. can wear this dress. I'm going be sitting like... No.
00:51:22
Speaker
I think that's a great point. I think there was... Whether it was intentional or not, there was reinforcement of expectations, right, of your river and what was expected of of your journey on it.
00:51:34
Speaker
And we have started to stray and go around these bends and it's like, well, I'd rather not. Now we have so many, you know, we have... way more women, professional women athletes than any other time in my lifetime. We have way more professional women in the workplaces that are CEOs and running Fortune 500 companies. We have women running countries, right? We have women presidents that are literally running Western countries and they're in every other place in terms of leadership or community building in between.
00:52:03
Speaker
And I think that Disney would serve itself well if it focused on that empowerment, Because that that is the that's the current right now, right? If we're going back to the river, the current is taking us in a progressive direction, despite what society and this you know administration might want from us.
00:52:24
Speaker
The journey has already kind of been set for young girls, which is you can do whatever you want. You don't need a man. Don't necessarily follow Disney's advice of chasing the prince or counting on a prince to come save you. You can save yourself.
00:52:39
Speaker
And I think that's important, right? It's important to continue to raise young women. i have a daughter that's 12. I mention this all the time. It's important for me to make sure that when she leaves my home, that she's independent, that she's confident, that she's intelligent and aware of the dangers that are out there for her and how to navigate those. Right. And what tools are at her disposal.
00:52:58
Speaker
And as long as I can do that, then hopefully, right, I've done half of the job of getting her ready for life. She'll have to figure out a lot things for herself. But I think when we were growing up, the message was very much graduate school.
00:53:10
Speaker
find the person you're going to be with, settle down, have kids. And really, if by 25, you haven't done that, then everybody's looking at you like, what's wrong with you? Right. Whereas now we're 35, 36, 37, and we're just starting our careers or starting our families or just starting to tap into ourselves.
00:53:27
Speaker
And so I think it's important for young girls to have a better head start than we did for that.
Modern Takes and Recasting Speculations
00:53:32
Speaker
I was a little bit surprised when, when she goes and like lays on top of John, I thought she was going to say something along the lines like, he's a good guy.
00:53:42
Speaker
yeah Or we can make this happen. But she was like, I love him. i was like, well, damn. You don't even know this, man. The timeline might be, you know, whatever. It was like two days. but you but then You guys are throwing the word I love you there. Maybe I'm just thinking too deep about it. But I'm like, okay, I did not expect I love you.
00:54:01
Speaker
But there she John would have been Joanna. Then that would have made more sense. Yeah. I thought Goku was way more good looking for the record than Don Smith. Like he's athletic built. He's a warrior. He took down a bear. He has beautiful long black hair.
00:54:17
Speaker
Look at those kids. It would be beautiful. She wanted the white guy. I get it. Well, she didn't want him right in the movie. She wanted him. But in real life, I want to make sure we're not discrediting the real Pocahontas because she deserves way more credit than Disney has given her.
00:54:43
Speaker
We're going to go ahead and switch gears and move on to our segment sparks. If TikTok were around, what would have gone viral or been memed? The savages.
00:54:56
Speaker
Except for real. Like they would have been canceled quick. Mm-hmm. Like, we can teach you. Like, no, my God, I'm going teach you. about that? Yeah, I think also we have seen a rise of, like, the challenges, song challenges.
00:55:11
Speaker
So I think TikTok would have a Color of the Wind challenge for singers. I think they would have, like, a battle off because it's a really technical song to sing. There's high notes, there's low notes, right? There's there's a certain melodic...
00:55:28
Speaker
flow that I can't sing. I'm not a singer for shit, right? But I feel like- ah How did you know I was just about to sing? you can sing? No. Oh. I'm like, shit. Hit it one time. you We can make it a bonus episode. Like, hey.
00:55:45
Speaker
I think like, you know, the Chris Brown residual challenge. I think maybe Colors of the Wind, if this movie would have been a hit like that, I think that would be the song that maybe they do a challenge for.
00:55:59
Speaker
Recast Roulette. Who plays the roles today? ah had two names that came to mind, but I'm let y'all start. Because she got to sing. She got to be able to do it all. She got to sing.
00:56:12
Speaker
She got to dance. She got a fight. She got to be able to run across rivers and mountains and shit. ah hearings No. Who plays Pocahontas in 2025? Make a remake.
00:56:23
Speaker
Who is Pocahontas? I mean, if we're going just based off looks and they can sing and everything, not like her actual personality, the person. Nicole Scherzinger.
00:56:35
Speaker
o Nicole Scherzinger. She looks like Pucolus. The pussycat though? She can sing and all that. like see That's pretty good. That's pretty spot on actually. but like Wow. Okay. even. Good.
00:56:50
Speaker
had Zendaya. ah i had zedea Oh, that's another perfect one. have Zendaya for Pocahontas. Or maybe Ariana Grande if they really want her to hit the notes.
00:57:02
Speaker
Ariana Grande's a hard no for me. I don't think so. She's in Wizard of Oz. She can't beat Pocahontas. oh That's a crazy jump. Yeah. It's very selfish. You can't beat Ruby and Pocahontas. Pick one.
00:57:19
Speaker
The governor, of course, would be Trump. Okay. soon as I saw it, I was like, this dude gives me Trump. Okay. Governor Ratcliffe. Donald Trump.
00:57:32
Speaker
John Smith. Who's John Smith? John Smith. Ryan... One of the Ryans. Ryan Reynolds? the The guy with the mask? of the spider Is it Spider-Man? No.
00:57:44
Speaker
No. That's not Spider-Man. Not Spider-Man. The other eat red mask. The other red thing. Deadpool. That's ronald Ryan Reynolds? No. no Not for me.
00:57:54
Speaker
He's too funny. Yeah, don't see him as John Smith. don't I don't got one. Maybe... Maybe she's a lesbian. Maybe Pocahontas doesn't have a John Smith.
00:58:05
Speaker
So we don't got to worry about casting you up. we go a cast Charles
00:58:30
Speaker
who was the moment scene stealer or iconic character
00:58:36
Speaker
Miko. I loved Miko. I loved Miko. Yes. I love him. Miko and the hummingbird were my favorite duo of the movie. They were so great together. i have a hummingbird tattoo and i would now I'm... I told Mel, from now on I'm going to say I got this hummingbird set. That's great. Reach! Reach!
00:58:58
Speaker
that's crazy
00:59:02
Speaker
The best
Reflecting on Pocahontas' Portrayal and Message
00:59:03
Speaker
friend, Dito. She ratted her out, but she was just looking out for her. Nowadays, a girl would be like, you know what? F you. You loyal. We friends no more. like ah got me in trouble.
00:59:16
Speaker
Got my mans killed. i wasn't even going to marry him, but I only got the option, so thanks for that. know She done fucked that all up. But she did. She tried to help. She tried to help.
00:59:45
Speaker
All right. Ratings and rewrite. For our rating scale, what do we what would we like to use? What came to mind was feathers, but y'all can... it One out of five.
00:59:57
Speaker
On a rating scale of one out of five, how do you rate Pocahontas today? How many feathers would you give Pocahontas today? How many ears of corn? How many ears of corn? yeah because we are in abundance. yeah I would give it three maize.
01:00:14
Speaker
Three Maze. Love that. I like the ending, but everything else is just too much violence. Guns, showing... I don't like that. I would say four.
01:00:25
Speaker
I think it's a it's a movie that I would show my kids with explanation, dive in, w just break it down, conversation after. Because it's a great way a conversation started, right? Where adults are kids, so...
01:00:44
Speaker
Is there more to it that could have been done? Absolutely. That's why it's a four. But I think it's... Look where we're at now. Right. Talking about it. know it was in 95, so... I agree. I would give it four feathers as well. Or four, I'm sorry.
01:00:56
Speaker
I would give it four ears of corn. ah I felt that it was also... a great story, they did a good job at crafting the story.
01:01:07
Speaker
i think what sets us on a path of more deep diving and criticism and reflection is the fact that we know that it's based on a real person. So I think if we take that out, then it's just a good story, right? is It's a mind blowing story to watch 30 years later and understanding that this is a Disney movie.
01:01:26
Speaker
But I think if this is if this movie is just made with the storyline that it has today, we don't blink twice. The point you made about sitting with your children and being able to explain, i think it is a great case study.
01:01:39
Speaker
The same way i just explained, this was our first case study in terms of white supremacy was and how this land came to be. So I think it's a great opportunity to kind of dive into that when most parents don't know how to start difficult conversations.
01:01:50
Speaker
This would be a great blueprint to kind of talk about how racism has been ingrained in this country since the very beginning. And you see that from the beginning of the movie. So um I'll give it a four as well.
01:02:01
Speaker
If you could change one thing, what would it be? I would have to say the the name because her being a person and the history she had and all of that, i wish there was more provided so for her name.
01:02:20
Speaker
So yes, let's share all that, but can we just not cut her short? Let's make up another name, right? This is not Pocahontas. This movie is called X, Y, and Z. Because if you're going to choose someone,
01:02:35
Speaker
I feel like she was cut short. Yeah. So that I would change that. The name. The character herself.
01:02:46
Speaker
I don't know what that change. I mean, the obvious. the The wording or the phrasing or the bullying a little bit. Calling them savages. and I think that was true to the moment, though, too. right They wouldn't call them friends.
01:03:03
Speaker
Sure. So that's what i'm saying. like It was very like bold. The language was bold. And I think that's why at 30 something years old, it caught us off guard. But they're not lying. but They're painting a very true similar picture of how they interacted and how they spoke and thought of each other. right The Native Americans also did think that they were pale demons. They literally thought that these were beings that were sent like from the spirit world.
01:03:32
Speaker
they couldn't understand they never seen somebody so fair-skinned. All these people did was come and take and spread disease and rape pillage, set shit on fire, right? and the Native people, all they knew was community, which you see at the end of the movie, they bring baskets of food for their voyage back to send John Smith to the hospital in London, which was also crazy. That was a little weird.
01:03:55
Speaker
Like, is this the ambulance y'all taking? I thought he would have liked to see her leave with him to see how she would have liked it. She didn't like it. did happen. Not in real life, but I mean in the movie.
01:04:06
Speaker
Right. Like actually show... man her life over there. But then again, it would be a verse. I was going to say, would we be pissed that they're trying to romanticize what her life was in London?
01:04:19
Speaker
it's like, it's a slippery s slope. At some point, Disney just has to say, end of story. This is where it stops. They don't go on to explain that she doesn't marry John Smith and marries John Rolfe, a whole other Englishman.
01:04:31
Speaker
What I think... can happen going forward for this specific Pocahontas is to give true credit, is to do what a lot of movie companies are doing now and kind of doing the before or after warning or what happened.
01:04:48
Speaker
They're including these now. So for example, there are certain movies that are very just like racist and like the slurs are just insane. So there'll be a warning, so to say, to tell the new viewers this movie was made during a completely different time.
01:05:02
Speaker
And we understand that we have kind of developed and that this language is no longer acceptable. This is reflective of the time. Like, be prepared. It's kind of like the it's the courtesy to let you know, like, you're going to be shocked by some shit that you see. But also, this is what it was like back then.
01:05:16
Speaker
So I think something like that kind of informs the new seven-year-old that's about to sit down with their mom. yeah That this isn't normal. This isn't natural interaction. But it was of the time. It does speak truly to how people engage.
01:05:28
Speaker
That's an educational moment. What I would also appreciate is that when they end the movie, and she is sitting standing over the cliff, that then they give us the... Pocahontas lived from blah, blah, blah, and then give us just some snapshots of her true story and how she contributed and that she did move to England and that she did die and that she had a child and she was married to somebody. like I think giving us her real but just ending, her real like just a summary of kind of what her life was really like without going into the details of being raped on the voyage and all these things, it it brings...
01:06:06
Speaker
the fairy tale reality to a reality and provides closure while respecting and acknowledging her true contributions as a person and in history at this
Final Thoughts and Future Conversations
01:06:17
Speaker
time.
01:06:17
Speaker
Right. This is where the the visual ends, but let's give you some facts. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. i agree. That's a good point. we god I wouldn't want anybody to watch the movie and then think it's normal to call brown people savages. So I think that Disney...
01:06:33
Speaker
in still streaming Pocahontas could kind of do damage control on that on both ends and provide more perspective for today's viewers.
01:06:50
Speaker
Does this movie still hold a place in your heart? Yeah, I don't think i don't think it ever did, but I think it now holds a place in my brain. was like, holy crap, like, it's so wild to...
01:07:02
Speaker
To imagine. To imagine. And if I were to dissect this, it would drive me crazy. Because all all I have is little bullet points of what it was. And it's a whole rabbit hole because it's still happening from the ugliness of kidnapping and all of that. So I wouldn't say it's the heart. It's more of the, damn. Yeah. Man, it's just in a direct light right now.
01:07:28
Speaker
It added right to the light. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very cool. It's tough. the Aging is tough, right? Because you start to appreciate, you start to recognize and appreciate the naivety and the the like ignorance is bliss aspect of childhood.
01:07:47
Speaker
And so it's a privilege and a blessing that we didn't pick up on all of the violence and the racism that was happening throughout this movie in 1995.
01:07:58
Speaker
But it is also difficult to process, right? Like, again, and for me, I hadn't watched movie in 30 years. So now it's, yeah, there's a wrinkle in my brain where it's like, wow, this has been the messaging. This is what I was introduced to. And this is what we've been getting away with as a society in terms of how we have conversations about these specific horrors that real groups of people have endured.
01:08:20
Speaker
i wonder if there was ever a real point that we missed... When people saw this movie, with the natives, if there was like a, like, why are you guys just showing this? Like it's a fair, yeah.
01:08:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That's a question. Cause they had people, native people helping them get the story. Right. I'll get the story. Right. They want it to be authentic in the way they presented the story.
01:08:47
Speaker
Yeah. But those people were on board. Right. Right. What about the community? The, the, the, but Yes, that know what Pocahontas contributed. What was their reaction? I'm going Google that. Now I want to know.
01:08:59
Speaker
We don't have time for it today, but I'll loop back in the comments on Instagram.
01:09:06
Speaker
It was an absolute pleasure speaking with both of you about Pocahontas today. i hope that you guys also had a good time. I i thank you for... sharing your experience, your perspective and your reflections as hard as they may be sometimes.
01:09:20
Speaker
I hope that this is a good platform for everybody that is listening to relate to others and their journeys and that we wish everybody good luck in getting to their destination.
01:09:33
Speaker
It's nice to kind of have these moments to kind of renew again. Tristan's thoughts and blah, blah. I liked it a lot. It's a nice conversation.
01:09:44
Speaker
It cracked open doors and windows that made us tap in a little bit. So yeah, thank you so much for sure. Appreciate you.
01:09:53
Speaker
For all you listening, please join us next time for a new guest, Old Movies and the Uncomfortable Truths we cover along the way. was an absolute pleasure. Thank you again. that being said, stay focused, stay motivated, love one another, have a great day.
01:10:13
Speaker
love the finger. Burp, burp, burp, burp.