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Color My Life With the Chaos of Trouble - Part 1
51 Plays7 months ago
Welcome to the first part of our series on modern relationships! In this episode, I'm joined by my special guest, Massiel, as we embark on a journey back to the beginning of our understanding of love. We're kicking things off by diving into our coming-of-age stories, exploring the formative experiences and pop culture influences (yes, 500 Days of Summer, we're looking at you!) that shaped our initial perspectives.
Join us as we candidly discuss the early challenges of navigating relationships, from the confusing signals to the often-unrealistic expectations fostered by movies and media. We'll explore what truly informed our perspectives of love, comparing our youthful ideals with the complicated realities depicted in films like 500 Days of Summer. Was it a guide, a warning, or just another piece of the puzzle in figuring out how love really works?
Follow Us on Instagram: @spoiler_alert_podcast
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Spoiler Alert' Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
This show is not suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:19
Speaker
Buenos dias mi gente! Welcome to Spoiler Alert, it's different now, the podcast where we lovingly ruin our childhoods by rewatching movies that definitely should have come with a warning link.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm your host, Joel Rojas, and each episode, a friend drops by to laugh, cringe, and spiral with me through the cinematic relics of our youth. Because nostalgia is fun, until you really pay attention.
00:00:43
Speaker
Rated R for Reflection.
Guest Maciel and Movie Choice Discussion
00:01:03
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Spoiler Alert. It's different now. i am here in Long Island, New York with a great friend, Maciel, and she has brought us another movie to dissect and dive into.
00:01:14
Speaker
Maciel, welcome. Hi. Welcome back. Welcome back. Tell us a little bit about the movie you chose and why Okay, so I chose 500 Days of Summer.
00:01:29
Speaker
And for one, I like the actress. There's just something endearing about her. And, you know, I just casual watch when you're young, you just watch the movie.
00:01:42
Speaker
But immediately that movie just kind of caught me like, oh, wow, because of how it started. ah rom-com that's not A that's not a romantic movie. I was into that a lot, and it was not a love story.
00:01:58
Speaker
It wasn't. It really wasn't. At all. I didn't understand that until you you said it after, because when you texted me about it, that's you gave me the quote, and I was like, I'm so confused. ah yeah Because I have never seen this movie. This movie came out in 2009. Yes. um So we're looking at 16 years ago.
00:02:14
Speaker
what 21 21 22 years old 21 years old i was in the military so that's probably why i i didn't catch this movie when it released so thank you for introducing it to me and i'm glad that you picked it and we're ready to to jump into it but the actress was i thought that the casting was really spot on in terms of the story that they were trying to tell the amazing yeah um oh my god what's his name In the film, Tom?
00:02:39
Speaker
not Yes, but the actor. I forgot his name. I should have looked this up. I suck at this. Zoe, what's her name? That's Chanel. She's the actress. Yes. But yeah, so lets let's talk a little bit about what you remember watching about it.
00:02:52
Speaker
Or excuse me, what do you remember about watching it?
Connection with Movie Characters
00:02:55
Speaker
Okay, so back in those days, or at least what I recall at that time, immediately loved that they said, this is a story about boy meets girl, but this is not a love story.
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay, that's cool because, again, so many rom-coms, so many, like, you just watch movies and you're like, all right, let's hope this is good. But back then, it was more like, it it did such a twist. Obviously, once you watch, you know, like, it's it's such a a role reversal, but at the time, i just looked at it more like, oh, I get her.
00:03:29
Speaker
That's so me. I really feel her. And I, you know, I felt like an odd person in society for not wanting everything that everyone was like, I need to have, you know, the girls. I need to, by 25, I need to be with the guy that I'm going to be with and and plan for the kids. I used to be like, nah, I'm not.
00:03:47
Speaker
Mind you, ah that time, i was watching this movie as I'm going to embark a journey similar to a lot of things we'll discuss. Yeah, but it's just weird that...
00:04:00
Speaker
At the time, i was more like, i get her. I get her. Like, why does everything need to feel so serious right now? We're young. i looked at it like we had a lot of time. i didn't feel the pressure like tomorrow I have to get this and have to do that. Or I met this guy and I'm head over heels.
00:04:16
Speaker
I was a cynic and I can still be. Where does that stem from? in a lot of ways, what she went through. Okay, my parents are divorced, everybody that has kids break up. Like, what do we, like, this is a, what do you call it? Like, this is not real. Like everybody, there is no soulmate. that You don't just meet somebody and everything just works out.
00:04:38
Speaker
and I looked at things, and I want to say my mother, because she would say that. She would be like, everybody loves each other once you have some kids. Everybody thinks they get it until you have some kids.
00:04:49
Speaker
And obviously in the movie, she didn't have that, but she still inherited her mother's thinking. Right. Yeah. Where she's like, you don't believe that. And informed her approach. Yeah. And even though she had no frame of reference, really, she was young, but somehow she inherited that thought process of like...
00:05:09
Speaker
You don't, that's not real. Like, okay, cool if it happens, but that's not how you go about your life. Searching for Somi, searching for something else. Right, because for Tom, his belief was that no one could be happy until they found the one. Right, and she's like, I'm good already. Like, I'm happy. I'm fine. I'm whole.
00:05:27
Speaker
I used to feel like I'm happy. I'm fine. It's cool. Like, all right, fine. We have fun. It's nice. All right, okay. and you know And I honestly didn't have a heartbreak at that point where I was like distraught about anyone.
00:05:40
Speaker
it didn't feel like, oh my God, someone is... I didn't have that... It's like a telenovela that plays in your head when you grow up watching these things. So I love seeing a character that represented my feelings. Like, oh okay, cool, you get it.
00:05:55
Speaker
I'm not broken. You're not broken, no. That's interesting because I feel like my my mother's experience... experiences with marriage or relationships from, you know, from an outsider's perspective, for me, always lended to the fact that no, love doesn't make you whole, but that you can find love over and over again. Okay. So like, I didn't chase love, but I understood that love was attainable and that there wasn't only one.
00:06:26
Speaker
To me, there was like multiple, like there was just a chance for multiples, right? Like that's kind of the, the, the mentality that was given, yeah, More so from the fact that love isn't what makes you whole. And if you're not happy, then feel free to leave that love, right? For however long it lasted and move on to the next. And yeah that was kind of the attitude that was presented for me when it came to relationships growing up.
00:06:50
Speaker
And there's a bunch of issues that come with that, right? But there's there was this sense of empowerment at the same time, which is like, I don't need to stay forever. to stay, I can always feel free to leave. Yeah.
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. nothing Nothing can trap me in and make me feel like I can't make a change and and just completely pivot from whatever the thing is. that's That was my thinking. and And I still hold that.
00:07:13
Speaker
like you I can pivot if I have to. Like, you can't make me do this thing or be with this person or continue on. I'm not going to... Although, as we know, in life and in how things happen, you don't just make a change tomorrow and just carry on. like When you put roots somewhere, you have to think about the domino effect, where that's not the thought process at all for her in the movie. She's very much like...
00:07:39
Speaker
Like, she's just so happy-go-lucky about her like her life and her world. And I was moving just like that. i was like, oh, okay, whatever. It's fine. Carry on. She had a...
00:07:51
Speaker
a quote which was, color my life with the chaos of trouble. And I thought that was- Don't you love that? that was When I heard that quote, then I was like, i see why must see I see where we're going with this. Because at first, not for nothing, I never watched the movie. I never had never heard of it.
00:08:04
Speaker
So when the movie starts and it's like, this isn't a love story and they're presenting Tom and they're giving Summer and the you know it's a 20, 25 minutes in now and I'm like, I don't get it. like what I was like, but I know you enough to know that there's a message that you're getting at. So when that quote came out, color my life with the chaos of trouble, i was like, there it is.
00:08:21
Speaker
Like that, that made the most sense. That tells you about her. Yes. it It felt like she was looking for an exciting journey more than like a destination of some sort. Like instead of focusing on, you're my happy ending. She's like more concerned with,
00:08:40
Speaker
you know, going up about her life with some chaos of some sort, but not chaos in the word chaos, more like like moving through things with some flexibility, with flow. Like she just, her whole thing was that chaos of trouble to me just sounds, and I didn't think of that back then.
00:08:58
Speaker
I thought about it now. I'm like, wait, that's this was there from the beginning. She was saying from the beginning that she was just kind of feeling her way through it. Like, I just kind of go through life and we'll see what happens and whatnot.
00:09:12
Speaker
And she doesn she didn't ask or wasn't seeking some smooth sailing type of thing. Like, she's kind of looking for excitement. Right. Yes. She was trying. She was accepting the challenges. Yeah, she was accepting to any challenge that that life was stronger. And even the fact that she moved to the city, she said, I moved here because she was seeking just to feel like, i don't know, like a alive or something. From whatever quietness is over here, i want more. i want this.
00:09:37
Speaker
this this She talks about it, the city, and how there's so much opportunity here and how you can go about things here. Which at the time, i was working in New York City and it was new to me. And it felt so... ah Like she gets it. Like this character just got it.
Impact of New York City on Perspectives
00:09:53
Speaker
For those that don't know what it's like to live in New York City or work in New York City, 2009, two thousand and nine What is that like for your 21-year-old Maciel to be going into the city and being able to resonate with the character that is also experiencing this for the first time?
00:10:07
Speaker
New York City is lovely. I never went to New York City like with my mom. like She was too busy. So when I finally got to New York City in 2000, I'm talking like I can get out now. I can walk on my own and I don't need anything.
00:10:22
Speaker
you know You're an adult. You're 18 or whatever. So when and New York City is such a like, it doesn't intimidate me. If anything, it's exciting. It's, you know how people say, oh my God, the city. And they're like, ugh.
00:10:34
Speaker
It is a little nerve wracking. I don't feel, it was exciting. and felt so like, oh my God, what else is there to do? And what can I get into here? And I and i did that type of stuff. Like I would be like, Walking with a friend and like, let's just check out this bar or let's just go check this out. And I went to art exhibits like that. I went to galleries.
00:10:50
Speaker
Again, in that character, she is into this stuff. And I still, to this day, I'll see something. And if it stops me, whatever's over there, if it's not like a real serious thing, can wait because this is exciting now.
00:11:03
Speaker
Like, I'm worried. This is so cool right now. So the city was that. The city was, like, opportunities, endless opportunities. i could do this. i could do that. I can go into this type of space.
00:11:14
Speaker
It just felt like a playground. There's a certain energy there. There is. That even if you're there to visit, even if you're there to go to dinner, there's a certain energy that just carries throughout the streets, and I i can i can feel that. And depending who you are, because to some people, that's just, like, get me no, I feel the same way. I've been around that. Like, you're like, get me out of here.
00:11:31
Speaker
And I'm more like... I miss this so much. There's nothing like walking at night here. Like, this is my thought to this day. Like, oh, I miss it. Why don't I come here more often? and There's value in spontaneity if you're that type of person. Oh, I love spontaneity.
00:11:45
Speaker
Even though, like, for my everyday life, I absolutely need structure. I need to have order. You know what? Organized chaos is what I'd be now. I want chaos, but organized. right but Don't just throw me into anything. Yeah, stuff I can control. Okay, we're going to the city. Be ready in two hours. Oh, I could do that.
00:12:04
Speaker
But in 30 minutes, I'm a little like, yo, hold up, hold up. This is too fast. Right. Reschedule. Yeah. But two hours, I got it. I got it I'll be ready. Yeah.
Evolving Perspectives on Characters
00:12:21
Speaker
What's different now as you rewatch it with a lens from a completely different perspective, we're talking 16 years later. Well, I said that she was cynical, right? And the character until the end, she was a very like, that doesn't happen. This is not a thing or that's not all that.
00:12:37
Speaker
What's different now is I understand my point of view today. i get Tom, I get him. I get him yearning for that or longing for that.
00:12:51
Speaker
Not to say that i still like she's still someone I identify with, but I think two sides of that, I can i can shift between both with ease. Whereas before, I would be like, yeah, he's out of his mind. like She told him.
00:13:04
Speaker
you know He was on a date with a girl, and she said, after she hears a story, she says, but she told you X, she told you Y, and she told you this, right? she The girl heard what she said and said it back to him, and he all that did was make him feel worse.
00:13:20
Speaker
But today I'm like, but also she let him on. did. She kind of like, you know that the he's this lover, sweet, like wanting to put, and I feel like she pulled some of that energy from him because for her to arrive at where she arrived, you had to see it somewhere or you had to feel it.
00:13:42
Speaker
maybe not with him, but you know that it existed because you saw it in him. It's one of those things that's like, I know that this is possible. Right. She was in denial for a long time. Yeah. yeah Because she arrived at the at the place where he was technically like, all right, well, I'm disillusioned. Yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
So what's different now is that I can see like, hold up, she let him on. Why are you holding his hands walking through the store and giving him all these... Because because a part of her didn't want to accept that she also...
00:14:12
Speaker
was... operating from a space that didn't really belong to her. You adopted beliefs based on something that you saw, your mother, and you remember the scene that she but she's young and she cut her hair and she felt nothing.
00:14:25
Speaker
But what if you just numb to whatever you're supposed to feel? Because you're just like, all right, well, that happened over there and it broke and it fell apart. So I don't need to feel this much now.
00:14:36
Speaker
She's jaded. She's jaded through throughout somebody else's experience. Because it wasn't her own. says she didn't have she't have heartbreak. So that's, I think today I see that like, damn, Tom, he was kind of like an innocent bystander in her story.
00:14:51
Speaker
But he was trying to cast her into a role she did not ask for. And he kept pushing for it. He said, we are together. Right. You're not the only one that gets to see yeah in this.
00:15:02
Speaker
But I feel like... while she isn't the only one that gets to say, it takes two. And he was he was having a hard time understanding that. And she, again, you you hit it on the on the head.
00:15:14
Speaker
She told him, you know, I just want to be friends and, you know, i don't I'm not looking for anything serious after they're skipping through Ikea, pretending to be married in all these different spaces, which I thought was super cute. But she like lays down in bed and was like, I'm not looking for anything serious. and i was like, God.
00:15:31
Speaker
So she caught it there. i feel like she caught it. She knew that she was giving into something here. Going too much. Yeah, and then and then she kind of reels it back. Because she keeps reeling him back into like, oh, we're not that, right? Like, we we know that, right?
00:15:44
Speaker
But then you keep giving him the things that are making him feel whatever he's feeling. And we're all responsible for whatever we decide to take from experiences. Like we can't just sit there and blame eat them too, right?
00:15:56
Speaker
But we've we've we do this in our lives. Like people do this. You let him on and she had no accountability up until even the end I want to say to a little bit. She had no accountability. It was like, oh, well, you know.
00:16:09
Speaker
i just didn't see it with you. She was a little cold. Yes. I thought that was pretty fucked up, but it needed to have that scene needed to happen to set up the next scene, which is the ending of the movie. So I and ah i understand why they had her go so hard, but at the same time, it was like, they gave they they should have gave her they should have given her the growth of empathy At minimum. I think that would be nice. yeah But then it's, that's why she was like the evil person in his life.
00:16:35
Speaker
You know who she is? You know, girls go through this whole like, oh, the bad guy, you know, jaded. She didn't have a reason to be this jaded other than someone else's experience. Or inheriting someone else's views.
00:16:48
Speaker
And i feel like you know how they have all these stories and most movies are there's a bad guy and he's the he's he's the guy that makes the girl go crazy. And this was reversed here. Yes.
00:16:59
Speaker
She's supposed to be the evil, the bad woman or the manic, you know, the girl that makes the guy go crazy. but The only sad part about it is that she had z the cold stare to tell him, um i felt what I didn't, what I wasn't sure with you.
00:17:18
Speaker
Like, oh man, you didn't have to like stab him at the end. heart hurt for him. Like that was sad. I said loud. was like, although Like I wouldn't say that. went crazy. That was too honest. In the cold stare when you say that to him? it was too honest.
00:17:33
Speaker
Too honest. Yeah, like that's something... Again, it's like she was so frank and I can relate to being almost like, you like diplomacy. I see myself young and I'm like, you like some diplomacy. You need to learn how to say the thing, but not say it so cold or so crass. Like she's just heavy. And she just had no, at any moment that she could tell him something to like back off, she would just say it.
00:17:58
Speaker
and she said And she continued to lead him on even after she was right engaged during this relationship when they go on to the wedding. And he says that her during that conversation where she says to him, I just woke up one day and I knew what I was never sure of with you is the quote. I wrote it down. And he pauses, she's trying explain you know but she's trying to explain to him like you were right.
00:18:21
Speaker
There is something such as fate and there is something such as love and falling in love at first sight. And, you know, she's kind she's trying to make the point, but she was very blunt in it. And, and it was kind of like, book right. But it's also coming from a point where to your point, she, she has really little zero fucks.
00:18:38
Speaker
It was, it became very selfish and very narcissist towards the end. It was like, you know, like you really are the villain. Yeah. He was like, why'd you dance with me? Well, cause I wanted to. oh I was going to get into that right now. So,
00:18:49
Speaker
If you remember, and I don't know because you were in the military and at the time, there was this movement of women being unapologetically themselves. And I want to say that whoever wrote the film was tapping into this feeling where women always had to excuse and justify their behavior. Summer doesn't justify anything. She is her and flawed and however you want to see her.
00:19:11
Speaker
And a part of me liked that at the time because I refused to be the... the sad girl that went through the sad story and he broke my heart. And I refused to be that at the time.
00:19:22
Speaker
So then she, when she says, i wanted to, so casual, so like, well, I just wanted to. So what? I'm like, all right, well.
00:19:33
Speaker
And then you, he he he went into it. He danced with her. So like... How's that heart fall? She's acting like, how's that a problem? like I wanted to. But at the time, it was a lot of music too that was like, you women, we're just going to do what we want to But the problem lies in like the, we if men were doing this for so long and men are wrong for doing this, we are going to do the same thing they did back. that you just The pendulum is swinging all the way to the other side. But we're also wrong. i know but then But then there you go. So like, all right, you know how they say, right? You don't like the patriarch, but then you are literally doing the same thing of what they did, which is, oh, one man, men will be like, oh, I wanted to.
00:20:17
Speaker
And then it's like, okay. But then when she says it, it lands different because it's like, oh my God, you're doing what a someone, like like if you reverse the roles and and a guy said that I wanted to, you'd be like, oh, he's just a jerk.
00:20:29
Speaker
But we it weighs different when it's a woman saying that. like At that time, it was like, Oh, just, I felt like it. No feeling about it either. Just cold. I felt like that.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. And then to get on the train with him and lean on him and just invite him so an event. That her be at. At her It was just like... But I thought it was master class and the way that they illustrated the expectation of reality. When that came up and they split the screen. That was beautiful. i was like, oh my God. yeah i felt like this was ah snapshot into my life. I felt like I have lived, because you know, I feel like everybody at some point when they're dealing with a complicated relationship does this.
Unrealistic Expectations in Relationships
00:21:14
Speaker
They they set up a scenario in their brain and you convince yourself of this narrative that's about to take place.
00:21:22
Speaker
When deep deep down in your heart, you kind of already know, like, it's washed and it's over and there probably is no chance for it to rekindle or... But... like his sister said, you're holding onto all the good memories.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so he did that and he consolidated all these good memories and good feelings to setting up an expectation that when he got to this rooftop party after reconnecting at the wedding, that this was going to kick off the relationship again, because they had already gotten into the swing of toxicity where they're fighting and breaking up and fighting and breaking up, even know though they're only friends.
00:21:53
Speaker
But... You know, so I'm looking at this screen and I was like, man, i can I can think of a few situations in my life where I set myself up that way, where I created this story in my head of how this was going to play out with somebody I was involved with.
00:22:08
Speaker
And you get there and it's just like, It didn't live Shell shock. Because the reality is so far from the expectation you set that you have literally set yourself up for disappointment.
00:22:21
Speaker
And now you're distraught because not only are you upset with the person that hurt you, but you're upset with yourself because you let yourself believe that it was something that deep down you knew it wasn't. That it wasn't. on and And even in the very beginning when his sister's, you know, that she walks in and he's smacking the plates down. And she talks to him and she's like...
00:22:42
Speaker
like His little sister, out of all people, is like, walk me back through it. but like, you're not seeing it for like for what it was. He couldn't. Because why? That's what happens. The feelings got involved and he just couldn't.
00:22:56
Speaker
I mean, you saw when when he finally got her like alone or they went out and whatever, he was somebody else from there on. Because, you know, she was supposed to be unattainable for him.
00:23:08
Speaker
Quote, unquote, right? Like, that's not going to be your girl. But he felt like, I got so close. This is going to happen. Like, he believed it. He thought he could will it into existence. And that's the part of me that I'm like, he's casting her in a role that she did not ask for. They were just friends. She kept telling him that.
00:23:25
Speaker
and But her actions were not matching that either, though. um mean, you argue both sides, but her actions were of someone that is... feeding something, nourishing something that you know you're not willing to like... Sustain. Yeah. And she didn't feel bad about it.
00:23:43
Speaker
She didn't. And she shouldn't have at the same time if she felt like she was being honest and forward in terms of what her intentions were. Because for her, it was you know the there was the disconnection of...
00:23:56
Speaker
you know, thought and words and then action. She's thinking that she's verbalizing, um don't want anything serious. I don't want a relationship. Boyfriend, girlfriend titles are just so juvenile, right? All these things. And then again, your actions aren't aligning. And now you got this man disillusioned into believing that you're about to be the love of his life. And in little, you know, less than 500 days, this man has spiraled.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah. A few times. We don't want to take any accountability into how our actions are impacting someone else. But I feel like I've been there where it's like I have led someone on or I have let them think that it's more when I knew it wasn't going to be.
00:24:38
Speaker
But it was just fun. Like, it's cold. and It was just fun. i know it sounds bad, but it was like, okay, well... It's not that serious. I wish I was more like that.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, but also remember, that's coming from a place of looking at everything my mother would say about relationships and how all relationships crash after the baby or whatever. what It's stuff like that, like the story. And then you know people in your family that are actively together, but it's like, oh but she's just tolerating. Yes,
00:25:07
Speaker
Oh, I never wanted to be the girl that just tolerates because of, oh, because where we have family now. Like I'm supposed to just be unhappy because because I'm supposed to put this in front of me. I was never going to do that. And I moved on to not do that.
00:25:20
Speaker
I moved on to even after a kid, like I'm not staying here just because. why I can build another family. like That's my thought process. To give you a little insight, by that age...
00:25:32
Speaker
I had moved out and I moved into like different, like I had my own apartment. I had moved, you know, just in the world. Like I'll get a place here, I'll stay here a year. I'll go go over there and stay there a year.
00:25:43
Speaker
i had literally no attachment to anything other than my sisters, really, not even my mother. But I felt like I had to be there for someone. It was only my sisters. And I felt like I just got to be by them.
00:25:55
Speaker
If I'm by them, I'm happy. There was no man that I needed to be attached to. I didn't feel that. So I feel like I would move in life in that way where it was like, oh, like um a guy is a plus. It's just not even that important.
00:26:07
Speaker
And if you remember, she's telling him about all the guys and she's going down the list of guys and girl. And she's like, and he's like, oh, yeah and when they're talking about um Nancy and Sid, you know, like the movie or whatever it was that she's that Sid he thinks that she's saying he's Sid. He's projecting onto her, like, oh, so we think she's working every day. And she's like, no, I'm Sid.
00:26:33
Speaker
Like, I'm the crazy one. i'm the one doing damage here. I'm the one that stabs you here. He's like, wait, the story that he stabs her, she goes, no. He goes, wait, so you're saying I'm Nancy? Like, remember, that's what she told us. Nancy's scary place to be. Tom's... I feel like I resonated with Tom so much. was like, man, I'm like the hopeless romantic.
00:26:51
Speaker
And that's why I was like looking at you like, man, that's so progressive. That attitude that you carry was like, I don't need this. I don't need that. But now I am. Right. I was going to ask, like, we'll we'll get into what's different now. But at the time, and I think now it's different, right? I've been married. I'm in this, you know, different phase of life. But in my twenty s it was... i was I was a ah Tom.
00:27:10
Speaker
I was chasing finding the love of my life. Oh, wow. Yeah. And not like, like intentionally doing so, but I would find myself seeking that and desiring that with somebody. So every relationship became, every interaction became a relationship in some way, whether it lasted for nine months, a year, two years. Right.
00:27:32
Speaker
they were very temporary, you know, looking back in hindsight, you're like, man, that was a flash in the pan. That was 18 month relationship where that was a 10 month relationship. But at the time I would get so invested in making it something because I would see potential or I would see how they would make me feel or I would see the connection or the chemistry. And I,
00:27:51
Speaker
watch this movie looking through Tom's lens and i'll just like, I'm very much him. Like, I understand the reality of things, but I also desired love, right? also desired finding my person.
00:28:05
Speaker
And so I stumbled a lot in trying to find who my person was. And so there was times where ran into the summers that would tell me to my face what it was and what it wasn't. And I would just...
00:28:17
Speaker
You know, go along with it and get a disillusioned. And then you have my heart broken a few months later and be like, damn, that sucked. Right? And then be mad at myself because it was like, bitch, you couldn't. Like, she told you. You knew what it was. You know, so.
00:28:28
Speaker
And then you have the friends that have to have the kind the hard conversations with you to also remind you, like. You're remembering all the bad or you're remembering all the good stuff. There's all these bad. There was these times where you called me at two o'clock in the morning and I had to come over here and hold you because you were falling apart. And then the next day, y'all holding hands on Instagram, right? Like it's so common. Yeah.
00:28:47
Speaker
And it's true because, but see, when I, what I remembered, because before I press play this time, i wanted to remember what that I like about this movie. So the first line, obviously, like I told you, captivated me. like I remember this.
00:29:01
Speaker
But then I said, oh, I remember now, I liked how realistic it was. I could change that today and see what I really meant by realistic. Because it's not that it's realistic. Yes, it happens. Obviously, you get the summers, right? are you But also, it's like, realistic, why?
00:29:20
Speaker
Because what frames of reference do you have when you're 21 years old? Like, what really are you holding on to? Or what stories? Why have you adopted? Because we are subscribing to these stories that you're told. So, you ever, at least I think, like, you almost...
00:29:35
Speaker
you decide that you will not be the one that falls in love and decides that you... I had this thing where it's like no one can control my emotions that much. Just because I just needed to feel like I was holding on to me because I used to see people lose, women specifically lose themselves in their relationships.
00:29:56
Speaker
I was a young girl going out, hanging out with my friends. I had girlfriends here, there, here, there. That's one thing I always had, girlfriends. I mean, my thing in life was like, I need to have good girlfriends or good friends.
00:30:09
Speaker
And... The minute a girlfriend or I would be like, I can't go out because my boyfriend is mad. I'm like, what is your dad? Like, I would immediately go to that. Like, you don't have, like, you don't, like, what you you can't just get out. Like, and I'm also, in at the time, I knew we were young. So I would say, why can't you get out? That's what you got to, like, you're supposed to get out. You're supposed to go out.
00:30:29
Speaker
So, oh, so he go out he could go out yesterday, but you can't go out. So all of a sudden, there's a, there's a battle over for that. You can't get out. Mm-hmm. And I was that friend. I was the friend that was going, damn near going to end your relationship because I'm going to start to let you see how this guy is spinning you.
00:30:45
Speaker
So I would do that. I'm like, what do you mean you can't get out? What do you mean you, what are talking about? So I was that friend on in your ear, like, and I was told this by one friend a while ago. You remember we were making spaghetti?
00:30:56
Speaker
And you were like, oh, we need to get out and live our lives. We don't have to be tethered to to this and that. And that's how I was operating. Like, um we need to get out. Like, what do you mean?
00:31:07
Speaker
but do you mean he told you no? Also, keep in mind, i didn't have a dad, so there's no man that was going to be able to tell me you can't. Because the fact that you told me you can is exactly why I'm going to, even if I didn't want it.
00:31:19
Speaker
Just because you told me I can't, it's like... Oh no, and now I'm going to. And I didn't even care for that. But now? You told me I can't. And you know, you have relationships.
00:31:30
Speaker
Boyfriends that are like, oh no, don't go out tonight. Or something. or Or why are you doing this? And I was very much because I wanted to type of person. like Because I work and I can pay for this and i want to go.
00:31:44
Speaker
And the minute I have my own place, forget it. You really couldn't tell me nothing. The only thing that's stopping me is, to does my sister need something? Is everything, okay, no, okay, I'm outta here.
00:31:57
Speaker
Like, yeah there was nothing, i really wasn't grounded in anything relationship-wise, seeking it. It was like, okay. I think everybody needs that, though.
00:32:08
Speaker
If everybody had the opportunity to kind of just live on their own for their for their selves. That is so important. we would be better off. That is so important. It very important. I think most people don't have the opportunity, especially in these days. Right. The economy is so crazy that you really can't afford to live on your own. Yeah.
00:32:23
Speaker
I feel robbed for our youth. Like, our youth doesn't get to have that right now where because of this the inflation and and the cost of living does not going to allow them to have these very, very fulfilling experiences.
00:32:37
Speaker
Because, you know, when you're on your own, you don't have to think about what someone else would want. You need to really think about you. Mm-hmm. Did I today? Regular yourself. Right. I got to clean. I got to go to the gym. I got to get myself to work. So who are you when no one is looking or waiting? Exactly. are you then? That was super, like, at that time, defining for me. I got to see a lot of my own, like, I'm in my way for stuff.
00:32:59
Speaker
And then for other stuff. Or um I move too fast on this and I need to take it back. That, which, back to Summer, that's how she was doing that. You saw she would she went to his house after. She basically told him...
00:33:13
Speaker
you know, because of the fight at the bar. And back to that. i'm I would say I'm not interested and whoever I'm with needs to let me handle it. And men just want to protect you.
00:33:24
Speaker
It could be my guy that I'm dating and he just feels like I want to protect her because I really like her. And here I am. i don't need your protection. I got this. I told them no he was going walk away and here you come.
00:33:35
Speaker
Want to get into an argument and this is not necessary. But he didn't walk away. No. So, like, I kind of understood him because it was like, bro, you he he was antagonizing the situation. But she really thought she still had it, though. Yeah.
00:33:49
Speaker
She thought she had it under control. That's why she was still mad. Like, you can't speak to me type thing. Even though that could have been the end result. That's why she kind of went back, I think. Because she knew that, come on, you overreacted. he He was trying to defend you or stick up for you.
00:34:05
Speaker
And you didn't even let him do that without you throwing a fit.
00:34:11
Speaker
Toxic on both ends. Yeah. It's two extremes. Right, yeah. I think that's where they clashed. What's different now?
00:34:23
Speaker
So I told you, I see Tom's side a lot more now. Although I don't know if I'll be able to see it if I didn't have that view on summer.
00:34:34
Speaker
Because at the the thing is that you can have the beautiful story that he's talking about. And people have it.
00:34:46
Speaker
The thing is that the chances of finding that, you have to find somebody that is, again, honest and willing to be up front with you and do what they say, mean what they say, and say what they mean. like You have to have them...
00:34:59
Speaker
you know, two things working together. So today i feel more like, i although i see i still see all of the things Summer says realistically, like as i as i would tell my daughters to operate more like Summer.
00:35:14
Speaker
Let me say that. Because you will walk around life, to have your standards and have your bar, but don't be don't feed into this fairy tale that there's a guy that's going to come and he's going to like be this amazing person.
00:35:28
Speaker
Hopefully, that's in your path based on the choices you're making because they exist. So that's what I'd say first. So the times are out there. But also... By the time you want to wake up to that, most men that are operating like Tom tend to find the one, settle, and kind of like, you know, I'd say...
00:35:51
Speaker
They're not going to keep doing that because they want the relationship. They're not going to keep looking for one So even, even see, this it this this whole Summer and Tom would have kept going, but it stopped because she stopped it.
00:36:04
Speaker
yeah He would have kept going into this delusion and keep going back to the toxicity because he's the one that's pushing for the story where she's like, wait, hold up. Right. So what changes now that I see Tom's side more and I feel more like you can have these things and you can be optimistic, but then realistically your choices need to align with that.
00:36:26
Speaker
Like the choice in partner, the yeah you're what you're willing to allow, what you your boundaries are, all of those all of those things have to go in line for you to be able to have what Tom is looking for, which he could have, but he he was in his own way too.
00:36:41
Speaker
yeah Forcing something that was not happening. He also wasn't following his own path,
Growth Through Relationship Experiences
00:36:46
Speaker
right? And I think that was highlighted where he shares that he had this dream of architecture and that's kind of in the in the background of the the movie. know And she she pushes him to kind of explore that more. And so, you know, i believe in the people show up in your life for a reason or a season or you know, for a lifetime. And for him, I think she was necessary in his story and the story of his life to come up at the time that she did
00:37:12
Speaker
with at minimum leaving him on the path towards following his dreams. Even if the anger propelled him to do this thing, because if you see, he has like a manic moment drawing on the on blackboard, and he's drawing and drawing and drawing because it's like he needs to see something.
00:37:29
Speaker
Like, he needs to have that that visual, like, I can't do this. Because it was like a spark for him. And that anger propelled him to move and do something else that that he probably, he would have just sat there making greeting cards about love if if she would just keep feeding his delusions.
00:37:45
Speaker
He would just sit there and do the same because he's reading that she's feeding the delusion. But because he had no other option, he had to channel that somewhere. And he went into the whole architecture world, which he was already really, really good at.
00:37:57
Speaker
you know what's crazy? she um embraces that. Like, she speaks light into him about that. That's what I'm Even if she took away the other stuff, she said, oh, he's an amazing. like So she didn't... She wasn't all that bad in the sense that like she would... She believed in Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
Like, you should be doing this. And by the way, this the cute part of that is that she was very... Her spontaneity is like, just draw it on my arm. Like, just... She was she was very, like, flowed.
00:38:29
Speaker
That's how I got from her. Very like, go with it. Just see. Where he's a little, he was a little more boxed. This is what I'm doing right now. And then that. And then to me, it's like, she she did spark something in him to like, okay, go now. Like, do this thing. Even if you're angry.
00:38:47
Speaker
But I say that to to to also connect the dot on, like you were saying, i would tell my daughters to be more like summer. And the Toms are attracted to the summers, right, at the end of the day. So there's there's value in just being yourself. I had a friend that when I was going through heartbreak would remind me, like, just keep being Joa.
00:39:04
Speaker
Just keep being you. Because you're awesome. And if you focus on being you and being who you are and the best version of yourself, you will attract. Your people will find you.
00:39:15
Speaker
Just be you and your people who will find You will land them. They're going to land. And they might land in the version, you know or you know, a version that is Tom or somebody else. But at the end of the day, you will find the people that you're supposed to be surrounded with. Or at minimum, life will filter out the people that aren't supposed to be around anymore.
00:39:34
Speaker
I think there was, for me, there was a little bit just nostalgia in the fact that you really do have to walk your own path, regardless of right how you kind of deliver that to others. right You want to be compassionate and you want to be empathetic and you want to be aware and not hurt people on purpose.
00:39:50
Speaker
But there was value in the fact that in Summer being her authentic self, she pushed Tom to be his authentic self. for me it was worth the 500 day cycle, right? If at the end when he meets Autumn, that 500 day cycle has pushed him to be his best version of himself, which lands him with this person that, you know, time will tell, we'll never know, because the movie doesn't come out.
00:40:14
Speaker
but even But even if Autumn, because if we were talking back to seasons, right? Like you said, we're in the season of life. It could be you... What I got from that, I said it out loud. I was like, you have to get through summer to get to autumn, right?
00:40:30
Speaker
But it's more like you you you don't have this without that most of the time. you You don't appreciate this if you didn't have that, right? Like today I can appreciate... you know, oh where I live and the things that I have or how, you know, how things are and the calmness that I am in as far as even though it's chaotic with kids, as you know, it can get a little crazy.
00:40:50
Speaker
But what i mean by that is like, I'm not in survival mode. I'm not like fighting for having something to eat tomorrow or like making sure that if I, you know, I got to go to work to do this. I got that hustle, that mindset of like, I have to do this or else there's a certain calmness that comes from like just accepting or or just like he has to go through some, a little bit of this chaos of the for him to maybe accept the new change or the evolution of him. Because that's what that that's what that left me with.
00:41:23
Speaker
The evolution of Tom. Yeah. He was going to e evolve into something else now. There's a new season that was starting in his life. I don't even think it was so much the girl, but what it represents. Right.
00:41:34
Speaker
That's what saying. I don't think that was the girl either. just the next phase, right? Like, this is, it prepares you for this next phase of life, the next season, to your point. Yeah. I don't think it was so much, oh, this is a girl, of you know.
00:41:45
Speaker
i don't think it was that surface. I think it meant more, okay, you went through all of this, and now you're in this season. Mm-hmm. there could be a winter, spring coming, but they're leaving you with one thing.
00:41:56
Speaker
You can think what you want of the rest. But it was is one of those things that's like, okay, this is temporary. And this autumn might just be temporary, but again, you don't get back to...
00:42:08
Speaker
Maybe he gets another summer with a totally different, where he shows up differently or even more aware of himself because he was totally unaware. he was he was just operating from this complete delusion.
00:42:22
Speaker
You know? So that's what I got from that. That made me think of a quote that I, it's actually in my email signature for, I think, school, but the quote is by Steve Jobs.
00:42:33
Speaker
And it says, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. and And so that takes time, right? You have to, I always tell people in order to grow or gain wisdom,
00:42:47
Speaker
you need to ah experience life. You can't skip, right? You can be very knowledgeable. You can be very intelligent. But wisdom comes with time and it comes with experience. You can't just become wise. You don't wake up wise. You don't ever get it like that. And you live forward, but you understand backward. that's just our lives. Exactly. And that's where I think the... Yeah. So what I'm getting at is that, right?
00:43:08
Speaker
For Tom, this was his process in... gaining wisdom which will land them wherever it's going to land them and you know taking outside of time for any of us it's important for for us to take a minute and just one be able to recognize who we were all the way up until now but also the different choices and actions that informed us getting here and and that you know the reset of the calendar at the end of the movie kind of did that for me I was like wow like really here's right like here's the next wrinkle so it was pretty dope
00:43:42
Speaker
No, I love that. It's true. And you have to live your life forward. And then yeah you just have to make choices that align with your authentic self. We don't ask ourselves those questions as often as we should.
00:43:55
Speaker
Like, how does this feel? Like, how does this and why does it feel that way? Because you don't want to operate from a space of like habit or whatever you got used to. Or adopting other experiences as your own and because you saw it over there.
00:44:11
Speaker
But like you again, wisdom. It takes years. who Whoever you are at 30, 40, 50, 60, it just keeps evolving. So I'm sure if I watch this movie another 10 years with new life experiences, um I might see a whole other side. If I show this movie to my 16-year-old, she might just catch surface things.
00:44:29
Speaker
Might. yeah I don't know. we I guess, yeah. Their experiences are so different, too, when it comes to just relationships. and Yeah. Right? Because I'm thinking, too, how we just talked about at the beginning of the of the show in terms of what informed us early in our early 20s, right?
00:44:46
Speaker
And what informs us is what we grow up seeing. So to bring it to the to present, I was very intentional about the type of relationship I wanted my kids to see growing up and the type of conflict resolution that I wanted them to be exposed to and the type of affection that I wanted them exposed to and experiences with me and my wife, right, as a family, but also for them to see that me and my wife do things separate and aside from them and the family and being able to have a ah stronger and more healthy frame of reference when it came to what they wanted out of relationships.
00:45:22
Speaker
Now you say that today. Did you have that feeling before? Like before you got married, before when you were younger, did you always know that there was a certain tone that you needed to have in your life?
00:45:36
Speaker
Like, did you envision it or this something that you just started to put together? Like you started to pick at the things that you're like, okay, this is, I need this in my home and I need this. I think I knew that early.
00:45:49
Speaker
i feel like my My upbringing was very um
00:45:58
Speaker
turbulent in terms of relationships in the home. So my parents divorced real early when I was five. That was a domestic violence situation that happened. Then I, you know, my mother had the relationship with my first stepfather.
00:46:12
Speaker
That was another domestic violence situation for a super extended period of time. And then by the time I'm a teenager, You know, she's married with my second stepfather and that was a much calmer, it was a complete switch in terms of personality and temperament and tone.
00:46:31
Speaker
I think that confused me more than anything, but I knew that it was possible at the same time. Like that kind of gave me a different point of reference in terms of what home life is. But that also wasn't the healthiest because I felt like he made a lot of concessions to my mother. My mother was very much the strong arm in that relationship.
00:46:46
Speaker
And so... What I knew was in my home, i want I wanted to have the opposite of what I experienced. So when I ran into situations and relationships in my twenty s that exhibited violence or a tone in which I felt was just not respectful or conducive to a healthy relationship, I would usually be turned off and leave those relationships.
00:47:12
Speaker
Like for me, it was very much, i did not want to repeat that. what I experienced as a child, as an adult within relationships.
Influence of Family Dynamics on Views of Love
00:47:20
Speaker
And I knew that I never wanted my kids to experience that.
00:47:23
Speaker
So there was relationships, like I said, that I walked away from just based off of how, extreme you know fights got. And it was just like, i this is not the life I wanna live, right? It triggered my inner child, which it was like, this is not yeah this is not what you want, right? You don't want to be cussing your partner out. You don't wanna be throwing things. You don't wanna be laying hands on each other or pushing each other.
00:47:48
Speaker
you know That's not the life that I wanted. So anytime my relationships got anywhere close to symbolizing or signifying to me that it was heading in that direction, i would I would run.
00:47:59
Speaker
Like, i would just cut and run. Okay, funny you say that because i relate. First of all, I relate to that in the sense of like, okay... You remember your mother and her relationship and how ah how that was. like You actually remember seeing them like on an everyday life, right?
00:48:18
Speaker
What that was like. All I remember was the divorce in my life with my parents. And I remember them being loving with each other or there for each other or anything other than...
00:48:33
Speaker
We're moving one summer. ah it It's funny, the movie's summer, but it was moving. and oh, you guys are going to DR. And I hear my mother saying that she's divorcing my father.
00:48:46
Speaker
But I didn't have a marriage that you were divorcing from. you You never behaved like you were in a marriage. Not her, them. Can't say was... They never behaved like they were in a marriage. He went to the yard where he felt like it. She was going to work.
00:49:00
Speaker
We were living here. i remember my sisters and I... My sisters and I were so close because that was family, even more than my mother. um mother was going to work. So then... Relationships, I was never modeled a relationship.
00:49:14
Speaker
And as you get older, you start to look at relationships. And I kid you not, no one had a relationship that I would say, I want that. When I thought I wanted that, when I thought that I liked something I saw and I was a dama in a wedding, i remember the bride crying because she found out that he did whatever he did at his bachelor party.
00:49:33
Speaker
So then all I thought about was, why do you guys all keep doing this? Why do you all keep trying to have this? stick No one is here happy. I want to hear one person say to me, it's beautiful being married. Like, I didn't have that.
00:49:47
Speaker
It was always, hi what you have to do, what you have to do, what you and it's like, why do you have to? See, there was no representation in my life where something needed to happen like in that way.
00:50:00
Speaker
So it was like, no, I don't want that. I don't want that. Why would I want that? You're all miserable, is how I used to look at it. Today, thank goodness, I have beautiful examples around me, and therein lies why I see Tom.
00:50:12
Speaker
Because when I see the beautiful, now today, I'm like, I love love. I love seeing that my girlfriend's so happy with her partner that that he buys her the flowers. or like It just makes me feel like, oh, you deserve that.
00:50:25
Speaker
It's just beautiful. But it's... It's not something I saw growing up, but today I get to see it. I get to see the the couples around me and I'm like, oh, that's dope. That's beautiful.
00:50:36
Speaker
I mean, I would say you guys are one of the couples for us that we look around and I'm like, man, they're dope. And so being someone that... I wouldn't say rejected, but right, like avoided and deflected these arriving in a situation where you are in a happy relationship, where you're, you know, you have a partner, like ah a true partner in life that you are raising kids with, but also have a romantic, very real relationship with on your own.
00:51:05
Speaker
Where was that switch? what What informed you to be able to say, okay, I will accept this. Maybe not Tom, because G's not a Tom, but... No. But the intention from a man to want this what some people would imagine as a fairy tale.
00:51:21
Speaker
I... Prior to my partner, I started to... or at least I kind of started doing that way younger.
00:51:32
Speaker
i needed to establish some form of friendship. Like this, this, where do you, what is your relationship rooted on? When there are, you know, people get together, then they have the kids, and now it's like, this is what ground, like, this is what your anchor And it felt like the anchor needed to be a friendship for me. Like it needed to come from, you really like who I am and I really like you are, independent of you to me and what I am to you.
00:51:59
Speaker
Like just the person, like, and and your values mattered to me, right? Like the person, his values mattered. And not just his values, our vision together. Like what do you envision for yourself?
00:52:10
Speaker
Those are questions we talked about. Like how do you want to live your life? Like how do you want to, do you believe that people should, you know, Just the conversations are a lot of... like Because before I even think of you like a boyfriend, I need to know that we i want the same things out of life.
00:52:25
Speaker
That we are going to have this this path where you we're like walking together. Not just like, oh, we're just doing life. Like, you're just there, I'm just here, and we're just like, you know, orbiting each other. No, we should definitely be in tune, in frequency. Like, this needs to be... And that we do and there's a lot of check-ins.
00:52:44
Speaker
And in relationships...
00:52:48
Speaker
It's funny now, but I didn't pick a guy that would be such a lover boy. that's so Even though I want, like, that's what I look for now, where I tell him, like, I need you to do this. Or I would be like, I need that. Because I want that that type of, that Tom thing where it's like, oh, no, I need this.
00:53:04
Speaker
But I'm also very, very good at vocalizing. i have no problem with telling this is what I need. So that's when I hold both. When it's like my frankness, I'm going to tell you exactly what I need.
00:53:16
Speaker
I'm going to draw off the map. If you choose to not see this thing, then I know where you stand or I know where I stand. Because now I know that you don't care for that. Right? Which can drive someone crazy because it's like, hold up, you never wanted any of this. It didn't matter to you.
00:53:33
Speaker
yeah And it's like, well, I don't think it's not that it didn't matter to me. I just didn't prioritize it. This wasn't like, to me, you can be a person that presents like Summer, sweet, loving, all of the things, but lead you on and make you think that you have this whole world that you might be possible. Like you almost can attain it if you could just get her to see what you're willing to give.
00:53:55
Speaker
But that's not the case. People are showing in their convictions like this is what I want. So I think that shift of like, okay, I just want a real good friendship that has chemistry.
Balancing Romance with Life Responsibilities
00:54:05
Speaker
Like ah quote that I remember and I do not know where I got it from was i want to be...
00:54:14
Speaker
like a fireplace with my partner. We turn it on and then we got to get the stuff done. You can't always be on fire. You need to get stuff done. It can't always be hot. You gotta be yeah you have to get things done.
00:54:26
Speaker
So I want to be able but to tap in, but we have to get out. Because if you stay all the time operating from this this delusional lover world where you're like you know living in happiness, you can't.
00:54:40
Speaker
Right. We talked about this before. Yeah. Oh my God. Because that's, the happiness is not a thing. You don't stay there. You can't stay there. that Happiness, all happiness is, is dopamine release in your body.
00:54:52
Speaker
And you feel joy and elated. It's a pit stop. Yeah. But like you want to be, we talk about this, but I want to be content. Right. I want to feel fulfilled. I want to feel like I'm fulfilling you. So I just want to be able to give what you need.
00:55:04
Speaker
And I want to also be able to ask for what I need. So that we can find the, not that you're going to get it all. because that's very difficult, but that you're able to meet each other. or like when it gets a little hard that you're able to think, hey, this is the why.
00:55:19
Speaker
And it can't be because the kids, because marriage. And it needs to be because I really like you I love you or we have something here. we get each other. Because when you fight, you don't get each other. Let's be real.
00:55:31
Speaker
It's actually when you start to think, oh, everybody fights. You just got to let it go. Well, no, maybe you have to work through some uncomfortable stuff to get to the other side.