Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Friends in Low Places with Danielle Castillejo and Eliza Cortes Bast
160 Plays1 year ago
We all know the rock bottom moments or seasons when we could use a friend . This week, Danielle Castillejo and Eliza Cortes Bast recall friends who made all the difference for them. Two tough chicks who bring their fierce and their tender into the room, this conversation is filled with laughter and possibility. Join us to discover the beauty of showing up, bring known, and choosing to play with a friend.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Tracy Johnson and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. This season, we tackle the messy truths of friendship. I'm excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table.
00:00:17
Speaker
This episode is entitled, Friends in Low Places. And I could think of no one better than the two lovely Latina women that are going to bring some of their stories to you today. I absolutely love Danielle, Cassiejo, and Elisa Bast. They are going to make you cry. They're going to make you laugh.
00:00:40
Speaker
You are going to just love them. They are so delightful and I cannot wait for you to meet them.
Stories of Vulnerability and Support
00:00:47
Speaker
So here they are, Eliza and Danielle with Friends in Low Places. I saw what they said we were supposed to talk about. I briefly read that before and I was like, whoa. Who gave us this assignment together by ourselves?
00:01:06
Speaker
You should have started recording. This is the bad part. We need to, wait, there's a pause button. Where's the, we should have paused so we can get our lives together. I'm ready anytime you are.
00:01:15
Speaker
Well, hello, my name is Elisa Cortez-Bast, and I get the privilege of sharing this time with Danielle to talk about friendship. Danielle, would you like to introduce yourself? Oh, yeah. My name is Danielle Reeve Castigiejo. I am in Paulsboro, Washington, right at the moment in my house. And I am a licensed mental health therapist in the state of Washington, and I'm
00:01:37
Speaker
I just love you, Lisa. So I'm just grateful to get to hang out. So you'll probably hear some of that in our dialogue today. And my day job, I get the privilege of serving a national ministry that focuses on women. And a fun fact is that Danielle and I have only been in the same physical space once. But as soon as she hopped into the car of the person who was picking us up, I was like, this lady is my sister from another mister. So very grateful to be in the same space with you too, Danielle. Micah can go first if you'd like me to. Yeah, I'd love for you to go first.
00:02:07
Speaker
said there were a lot of places to hide in the building. The campus stretched wide and long with nooks and crannies and pockets of dark halls. I found a space to cry making sure I was alone. Door closed, lights low, total security, total secrecy. I clenched my jaw and squeezed a small second of time for angry hot tears. And then the door creaked open. Hello? There's a small low voice I recognized. And in that split moment I had, I had to make a choice.
00:02:38
Speaker
total vulnerability, absolute nakedness, or I could cover and I could fake it. I could hear her coming closer, hello, are you okay? My colleague was in fact coming and there was no fake leaf big enough. She found me in the semi-dark, red-faced, tear-stained, totally broken, totally naked.
00:03:00
Speaker
Oh, Lisa, oh, friend, she said it low and carefully, and I wasn't sure what to do. Sue sat down next to me and said softly, Oh, Jesus, fix it. Oh, Jesus, fix it. She didn't ask and thank God. She didn't hug and thank God.
00:03:16
Speaker
For this tough chick that was already wildly disoriented by my own emotional display, I was immediately fearful of what might come next. Would she tell? Worse and very worse. Would she want to ask about it tomorrow? And then the next day, and then the next day, Elisa of the emotional breakdowns, are you okay?
00:03:36
Speaker
I wanted to start explaining. I'm frustrated. I'm angry. The tears that are in me are just only just limited rage that had nowhere else to go. And I'm allowing this small relinquishing of self-control. And I sputtered. I regrouped. I tried to explain. She said, it's okay. It's okay.
00:03:55
Speaker
You don't need to explain. She sat down next to me, softly praying, staying close, hand on my back, no hugs, giving me space, giving me tons of dignity, and giving my tears dignity. I could feel my body beginning to relax. Better I could feel my heart doing the same. I was seen. I was very seen, and I was safe. We finished that moment, just praying together in the semi-dark, and then we left. No more words.
00:04:25
Speaker
Since then, my friend Sue is the one I call. Outside of my sisters and my husband, she has seen the best and the worst of me and has found me crying and will sit next to me and sit next to my racing heart. Her half cheerleader, half big sister, half self doing all the things with me together, half adventurer.
Exploring Friendship Dynamics
00:04:44
Speaker
She's rocked my kids to sleep. She's missed the train with me. She's dreamed big with me. We cry and we laugh publicly together at our favorite sweet potato fried spot.
00:04:55
Speaker
no worrying around us as I'm waving around my Diet Coke while she thoughtfully sips her Dr. Pepper. She says my name deliberately, Alisa, and my kids call her Aunt Sue. My intensity doesn't bother her, and her deliberateness doesn't feel like slowing down for me because we are salt and pepper together. That's my story of friendship.
00:05:19
Speaker
How does it feel to have read your story out loud to me? You know, it's hard, right? I'm not one of those people that has a ton of friends and you feel like, well, as an extrovert, like there should be, you should have a ton of friends. And I think that's the miss, I think for people who are wired like me, like, oh, this person is completely comfortable, authentic self all the time. And it's hard to admit that this person actually almost did an end run around the gate of my own heart. She just kind of found me in a space where like the gate was down and just like softly crept in. And that feels hard to be able to name.
00:05:48
Speaker
it's like she caught me off guard right she became my friend because she caught me off guard and so she earned it in a maybe in a different way than other people would have and i think that always feels both interesting and hard to acknowledge and i imagine even vulnerable to admit or share out loud on a podcast or on a more public forum yes this is a way that someone accessed your heart
00:06:09
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely. For all the other tough chicks that are out there that are listening, that are wondering how you let people in, it's hard to recognize that the moment I let her in was a moment I just couldn't control. I couldn't recover fast enough to not let her in. I couldn't put up the gate back far enough to get her back out. And that was OK. It was terrifying. And it was OK.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, as I listen to you, I feel like some calm but some jittery feelings. Yeah. What are you noticing? When I was thinking about what I wanted to bring into this space, what felt probably important or maybe even super hard for me was that I love people that want to connect. And I'm very guarded against things that maybe feel like false authenticity. And so it's always that the worry for me, the worry more than anything else for me was not that she got in, but that somehow she would see me as what I didn't want to be seen as.
00:06:57
Speaker
right and so it's like you know they come back the next day hey friend are you okay and i'm like i'm fine like you caught me at a bad moment i'm okay i'm not emotionally fragile that was the fear right that was the worry yeah i think you've described yourself as a tough chick
00:07:12
Speaker
and the vulnerability that you're displaying in the story. But even the narrative that the next day, however you're coming into whatever space, whether it's weepy or you're feeling actually good, but that there's a certain expectation of yourself. Absolutely. Would you be willing to say any more about that? Oh, this is really bringing up a therapist in you, isn't it?
00:07:34
Speaker
You know, it was tentative. It's almost like a scared cat coming in the next day to work like, okay, you know, what impression did I leave? Who am I going to show up and see next? How does that impact how I'm seen? And almost like bringing the bravery and the courage to come in the next day, to be able to say it was a frustrated moment. Thank you for showing up well. Yeah. I mean, you described yourself as naked, like more than once, right? Yeah. That's a very vulnerable person for a tough chick.
00:08:00
Speaker
terrible. Yeah. What did you expect out of yourself the next day with that person? You know, I don't think I really had any Danielle. It was a lot of watching and waiting on my part. Yeah, just that feeling of you caught me once. You may never catch me again. Yep. It's like seeing a bald eagle or something, you know, pink dolphin, rare once in a lifetime opportunity, like you saw it, tweet about it and then never talk about it again.
00:08:25
Speaker
Which tells me that particular person had been watching you from before the moment you moved into that space. What do you do with that? You know, I love that because I think about what even would move me in my own story. There's a part in there that somebody was looking for me before I invited them in and that's powerful. Somebody was watching and was looking for an opportunity for invitation.
00:08:46
Speaker
And then did it with such tenderness and gentleness. They were watching a new enough to be able to come in well. And I think that's so critically important when we think about the friendships and the people that we allow close. Some people have been quietly earning the right to come close even before we know it. I see that that person had a care for you long before you entered that bathroom. That's right. And that that care extended the risk of following you because this person would know you're tough. Yeah. Yep.
00:09:14
Speaker
And it was worth that risk to them too. Yeah. So I'm curious for you, Danielle, like anything in that story, I don't want to put my stuff on you, right? But I know we're two tough chicks together sometimes. So is there anything in particular in my own story that you feel resonated with your own experience?
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think just feeling like the space that the spaces that are more public are usually unsafe. And that feeling, I think what really moved me is I think there was something in what I heard in the tone was that you wanted to be found. Perhaps like because rageful crying to me doesn't resonate like sniffles and quiet, you know?
00:09:50
Speaker
There's some volume to that. I think I just resonated with there's both the obscure bathroom, but also the crying that has volume. And I think that really moved me about something beautiful in you. Not only did you need to be hidden away, but you also were crying out like, Hey, if there's the right person, they could find me. And I think I feel like that sometimes I'm actually here.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah. And if it's the right person that's paying attention and loving me, then they can they can actually find me. Oh, Danielle, I love that. Because I think, you know, I know not everybody has the experience of being a mother. But I think for any of like close person or family member, it's like the idea that there can be a whole room of people crying. But I know when it's my kid, I just recognize it, like there's something inside of there. And I, you know, God bless the people who recognize us. Yes, I really want to honor that. And the and the way you wrote about your story just
00:10:43
Speaker
the both the hiddenness but also the volume that was there. You're still very much yourself and strong and I would say not small in the tears. It's very lovely. It's very lovely. And I love that this person entered gently. That means there was not a sense of intimidation.
00:11:04
Speaker
How do you want to live differently based on what you heard in your own story? I was totally expecting to ask you that and not answer that for my own story for myself. Of course you do that. Honestly, what feels true for me is that I have been accused in my own story and not in the most tender kind ways of just being very untrusting of other people. So I'm just not surprised very often. And it was lovely to be surprised.
00:11:29
Speaker
It was lovely to be surprised and to make space to be surprised and to have the benefit of that being an incredible surprise. I have to have enough tenderness in my heart where I recognize the surprise and where somebody comes in and an experience in that way and it's like,
00:11:45
Speaker
Oh wow, what a gift. I am shocked that this happened this way and it's a beautiful delight and it's an incredible surprise and it's like a party in the way that I've been delighted. And so I need to be able to make space for that and for my heart to be tender and ready for that. I think one thing that really moved me is that it feels like your story gives permission to be both protective and like say like, hey, I may need some secretive space, but also to like give that call for help.
00:12:12
Speaker
It's okay to do both at the same time. So I'm going to share it verbally. It's going to be a story from high school, okay? Yeah, do it. Do it. Okay. So I went to high school. I moved from Nebraska to Paulsboro, Washington when I was 14.
00:12:30
Speaker
So I started ninth grade here in Palosable, Washington, and I had loved basketball since I was very little. I have watched Michael Jordan videos. I loved Magic Johnson. When the Lakers played the Bulls, I watched every finals game. I had like this massive picture of Magic Johnson on my wall.
00:12:52
Speaker
And of course, when Michael beat him, I was like, this is the end. So I was obsessed with basketball. And when I arrived here to Washington, I grew up in the Midwest. It was a huge basketball for females. There was basketball everywhere. When I moved out here, it just wasn't the same. So I walked away from a world where I was in the middle of the pack, as far as talent, to I got out here and I was the best.
Gender Norms and Friendship Expectations
00:13:19
Speaker
It was both weird and it was, and it was fun, but it was also really lonely because it's not fun to move when you're a freshman in high school. So I made it through my freshman year. I didn't have a lot of friends, got into high school my sophomore year, and it was just hard. I, I made the varsity team, played sophomore, played
00:13:39
Speaker
Junior year and I had this random friend named Shay who I don't think I would have called a friend her name was Shay Terry and she would invite me to Hang out to get ice cream to get double cheeseburgers a Burger King before games. I would never go I would never go I was just
00:13:59
Speaker
kind of in my own world, didn't have a lot of friends, a super big homebody. But one day I sat down at lunch my senior year at the beginning of the year and she sat down at the table with me and she was popular and she just looked at me and she's like, I don't know why we're not friends. I want to be your friend.
00:14:17
Speaker
And I was like, okay. And we started, she wasn't as good at basketball as me. So I started playing her one-on-one like every day. And we started playing basketball every day. She started coming over to my house.
00:14:35
Speaker
And then when I was a freshman in college, I just wasn't prepared emotionally. And I remember she showed up because she had gone up to Canada for college and I was at Seattle Pacific and she came over and she said, I know I'm far away, but I'm still your friend. I know it meant so much. It's not like we ever talked about the tragic things in our lives at that point, but she just knew when to show up.
00:15:04
Speaker
And I had kids. She was my friend. I got married. She came to my wedding. I went to her wedding. I was in her wedding to this day. She'll send a card or write a letter. And we've had some more deep conversations. But at a certain point, she's like, I just I just wanted to be your friend. And
00:15:30
Speaker
I don't know why I believed it when she said it, but I think I believed it because when she sat down at that table, it was just so certain. The way she said it was so certain, it was so matter of fact, it was so basic, and she never took anything from me. It wasn't about money or I didn't have a car anyway, but it wasn't about rides. She just wanted to be there.
00:15:55
Speaker
And when I think back across life and I was looking at the prompt and I thought about writing about her and I have another spaces, but for me, Shay is someone who I've wanted to be like, just to be able to show up one day and just tell someone like, hey, you're my friend. Yeah, it still brings tears to my eyes like 30 years later.
00:16:18
Speaker
Oh, you know, Danielle, it's so funny because I hear you saying like, that was the moment it was certain. And I'm just curious for you in the invitations leading up to that, what did not feel certain enough for you to say yes? I don't know. I think I needed all the invitation.
00:16:33
Speaker
I think I needed them. I needed to say no to them. Like looking back, as you ask me now, it's off the top of my head. I just was in a place at that time where I did not trust people. I wasn't bullied in high school, but I didn't have any friends. Like I had people to say hi to.
00:16:51
Speaker
pal around with a bit at school, but like a friend? No. I think when I moved here, I just kind of said, well, I left my friends. I just didn't know if I could do it again. Wow. Yeah. What I hear in that is starting over. Like who wants to start over with brand new friends? No, not in high school. No. That's horrible.
00:17:12
Speaker
Now you said 30 years later, it's still bringing you tears. What moves you about your own story? Why is it still moving you 30 years later? Because there's something so sweet and just matter of fact about another human seeing me or seeing anybody.
00:17:27
Speaker
and just being like, I think that person needs a friend, I'm gonna go do it. And they meant it. Well, and that's commitment, right? Like that's, that to me feels almost like the rarity. Yeah, in a day and age where everything could strip us apart. You said that when you had left college and you felt like you weren't ready and she was somewhere else, to have her still be far away, but to say, I'm here for you, what did that do for you? You know, and how do you show up when you're far away from somebody else? I think it was something in her voice
00:17:54
Speaker
I always knew this was not the person I was going to share all the details of my life with. We were really close, but we weren't close in the storytelling kind of way. I think I'm someone that needs physical presence.
00:18:08
Speaker
And she could just provide that. Danielle, what I heard you describe is the typical relationships that I see my husband have. He has these guys that he could just go and play basketball with, people to do stuff with. And I'm like, hey, how's their mom doing? How's their health doing? Have they thought about this? And he's like, we didn't talk about that. We just didn't talk about that.
00:18:26
Speaker
There's a part that I wish I had more of those relationships, but I can't. Part of the feminine construct is that it always has to be deep. And it's not a real friendship unless we're like crying over mocktails, you know, and like talking about
The Value of Uncomplicated Friendships
00:18:38
Speaker
our husbands. That's the stereotype. And, you know, we just can't normalize having relationships like that where it's like, no, we just do stuff together and go watch movies together. And I would totally expect my husband to have that. And even him challenged him on like, don't you want to go deeper? And he's like, this is a great relationship.
00:18:53
Speaker
this is a fun friendship for me. And there's a little part of me that resents that because I don't have any that get to be that easy. Like it has to be emotionally expensive because I think that's what I have to believe, right? Like it's not a real female friendship unless it's emotionally expensive every time.
00:19:08
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I think we're running into gender norms, right? Right. What are the gender norms? And for some reason, Shay and I just were fine in that. I mean, we did, we did crazy stuff. Like she would like these guys at these random other schools and we'd go watch their basketball games and like throw airplanes with like notes with her phone number down and like all kinds of crazy stuff. But we needed someone to be with, to have adventures with because life was hard. It's like the break.
00:19:38
Speaker
you know, but you got to like break together. And I just wonder for my own self, you know, as I think about my own journey of friendship, do I say no to the possibility of more friendships, because I feel like they have to be something else. You know what I mean? And there might be somebody who's out there that's a shame for me, and it would be fun and cool. And that's awesome to have somebody like you said, she didn't take anything from you. But I would imagine she probably didn't expect like a ton from you could
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, there's just not the, the drain of expectation. Not that it's bad, you know what I mean? But then it's like, you can show up and just breathe a little because you're not, you know, that you're not having to show up with a bag of things to give away. Yeah, I think it was enough in those seasons. It was what was needed and it felt, I felt so loved by it. Just to have someone to do things with that didn't have a demand on me for
00:20:28
Speaker
emotional labor or other things. There's just something in me that kind of just needs that. So I guess if people are listening and you're female and you're like, Hey, I need to play or I just need to have fun. I mean, I hope you hear that it's normal. That's so good. I love how our stories we came up with were so different on the interpretation. That's so freaking awesome. Well, I don't want to bless like the vulnerability mix of the toughness that you bring to the table.
00:20:57
Speaker
I really admire you for in a lot of different ways. But that's just another example of you are a woman that is strong and tough. And you also have this capacity to be vulnerable. And there's space there for that too.
Openness to New Friendships
00:21:10
Speaker
Thank you. I received that.
00:21:11
Speaker
What I would just bless about you and about your story is, you know, I think Danielle, you're one of those people that constantly surprised me and I love it. I'm always here for it. Like, Oh my gosh, what is she going to talk about? And like the insight is so good. And I think the stories that you share are always permission giving to do things differently and to experience life differently. And so there's a lot of liberation in your storytelling permission for people to think differently and to be differently. And, and I love that about you. And I love how that makes me better.
00:21:40
Speaker
It's like the Johnny Appleseed of liberation. You know, you're just out there like just throwing seeds at people and hoping it lands on good ground. 20 years from now, we're gonna look back and be like, oh my gosh, Danielle was here. Oh, you're so funny. What resonates for me the most is that let people pursue you. You know, there's a part where I think we're wired, that pursuit, we feel like it has to look a particular way.
00:22:06
Speaker
And then I think there's a natural inclination that if somebody's pursuing me, they want something. And we have to be open to the fact that somebody just might want...
00:22:14
Speaker
want us, like want to know us. And that, you know, I don't know, I think we just become so increasingly suspicious of other people that in that it's like something must be wrong, like there must be something wrong, you know, and so either there's something wrong in you or there's something wrong in me. And I just I think that if we do that, we live life arm to the teeth. And we miss out on some of the goodness that might be available to us if our hands were just open a little bit more. What about you? Oh, man, I just like get yourself a friend. That's how I'm feeling. Get you one.
00:22:43
Speaker
I think I am struck when you said pursuit. I was like, we were both pursued in the stories we brought. It's interesting that two tough women brought stories of being pursued and vulnerability. So I think one thing I'm taking away is we may have stereotypes about people, but
00:23:00
Speaker
Clearly they're not correct. You know, like tough people don't need to be pursued or vulnerable people can't pursue or can't care for someone that's radically different. And the truth is we actually make really good matches. Yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
Didn't you just love that? They are absolutely so much fun. I really enjoyed the difference in their experiences and in how they came into this prompt. And I found myself walking away wanting to bless my own toughness and vulnerability.
00:23:36
Speaker
And I found myself so delightfully surprised by the invitation from Danielle to just enjoy having friends we can play with. And if you're like me, that probably hasn't been something that you have thought about often. Like who are the friends you have that you can just play with? So a couple of women's faces came to my mind
Concluding Thoughts and Call to Action
00:24:03
Speaker
And I actually reached out and set up an opportunity to be with both of them, not long after I listened to this episode. So there's my invitation for you. Who are your friends that you can play with? And could you reach out to one today and set up some time to be with her? Maybe you are the friend that people play with. And if you are just here for me, I am so grateful that that is what you bring to the world.
00:24:29
Speaker
Hope you enjoyed this episode and that it's left you thinking about what you can bless in yourself and how you can play more. And we'll see you next week.
00:24:40
Speaker
The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by Katie Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson and our guests are all part of the Red Tent Living community. You can find us all at redtentliving.com as well as on Facebook and Instagram. If you love the stories shared here, we would be thrilled if you left us a review. Until next week, love to you, dear ones.