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29: Two Private Christian High Schoolers Discuss Their Faith Walk
237 Plays3 years ago
Ryan Pfendler and Jill Devine invited the next generation to sit down and chat about the faith of the next generation. Ivy Mueller and Maddie Davis are two private high school students who opened up to Ryan and Jill about their faith walk, what they want from adult ministry leaders, and what they want their parents to know and understand about them.
Ryan is the Director of Student & Young Adult Ministry at Messiah St. Charles. Ryan’s ministry believes that following Jesus is the way young people grow into the best version of themselves. He wants every teenager to belong to a community of faith where they can learn who Jesus is, and discover the purpose He has for them now and as they grow.
Highlights from the episode include:
*Switching from Public School to Private School
*Going from no faith experience to having it be constantly in your face
*The importance of connection and community
*Being brave and showing up
*Everyone is broken
*Not everyone at a Private School is a Christian
*An explanation of Chapel
*Wanting and needing adults to listen
*Being able to relate to Christian leaders
*What it’s like to be a “P.K.”
Messiah Middle School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/middle-school/
Messiah High School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/high-school/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Introduction to Faith Discussions
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
High School Guests Join the Podcast
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome back to normal goes a long way. I'm your host Jill Devine and we're back with more high schoolers. Well, that's kind of a lie. We'll explain in just a minute, but Ryan, we had Audrey and Jenna on on our last episodes and we have some more ladies on. I want to set this up real fast though, because if you have been a listener of the podcast,
00:01:07
Speaker
you have heard from Pastor Jim Mueller. And he is our lead pastor at where Ryan and I work and serve. And that's at Messiah in St. Charles. That's a suburb outside of the St. Louis area. And so he's been on a few times and now we roped his daughter in. So Ryan, you're gonna do your magic like you did the last time. You're gonna talk to these ladies, I'll chime in.
00:01:35
Speaker
when I feel like it, when I wanna just kind of derail that combo. Yes, please derail as you see fit. You're so good at that. Thanks, I'm derailing. Yes, yes. In a positive way though, in a good way. Okay, thank you. Well, hey, we've got Ivy and Maddie here with us today. Ivy just graduated high school. So she is a former high school student, fresh out. So she is excited for the next stage of life. Maddie here is about to start senior year.
00:02:04
Speaker
And while our last guests, Audrey and Jenna, they were public school.
00:02:11
Speaker
Ivy and Maddie go to a local private school here in the St. Louis area. And so that's an interesting thing about this area, too.
Public vs. Private School Insights
00:02:19
Speaker
The St. Louis area is full of this public school, private school divide. And so that's why I thought it was important to have people from from both sides on this podcast hearing from the public school kids, hearing from the private school kids. Later on, we're going to have some guys come in. And as I mentioned last episode, we're going to have a teacher on, too. So we've got a bunch of different voices coming at us.
00:02:40
Speaker
Ivy, how are you feeling being done with high school? Tell us about that first. Well, it's kind of hard to process. There was a lot going on in high school and now I feel like I have nothing going on. So I just sit at home every day and I'm like, what do I do?
00:02:56
Speaker
You know, I think this isn't for me, I remember this phase of just finishing high school and feeling this combination of freedom and a little sadness. The sadness kind of kicked in when I realized, okay, moving far away for college and.
00:03:14
Speaker
All my friends are kinda staying back here, my family staying back here, so you're kind of in the exciting stage of this process, but you're kinda going far away from school, aren't you?
Transitioning to College Life
00:03:24
Speaker
I am. I'm moving to Arizona, Flagstaff. Northern Arizona University. I'm very excited, but it is very far.
00:03:32
Speaker
That is where the Southwest United States, right? You got some deserts. You've got Grand Canyon. So it is going to be a different place than Missouri. Definitely not the Midwest. But actually tell us a little bit about yourself. So, you know, Ivy, you...
00:03:48
Speaker
aren't a native to Missouri. Where did you go to school? What were you involved in there? And give us one word you'd use to describe Maddie. And Maddie, same for you. Where'd you go to school? What are you plugged into there? And one word you'd use to describe Ivy.
00:04:04
Speaker
Okay, so I went to Lutheran High School of St. Charles. I loved it. It was, I went for my last three years of school. So my freshman year, I was in public school in Texas. And then we moved from my dad's job to St. Louis. And so now we go to Messiah and Lutheran High. And at Lutheran High, I was really involved in dance. I also did student ambassadors and sometimes NHS. I did like some kind of random popping clubs, but not a lot, I guess.
00:04:34
Speaker
And then one word I would describe Maddie. Maddie is very thoughtful. She always knows a good thing to say, but she's also a good listener. Yeah, I would say really thoughtful. So nice of you, Ivy. All right, Maddie, tell us about you and your word you'd use to describe Ivy. OK, so for middle school, I went to a public middle school.
Navigating School Changes
00:05:00
Speaker
In Winfield which is right by my house, but now I go to Lutheran high school I'm gonna be a senior and it's like a 35 minute drive and I'm also on the dance team and I'm also in student council Student ambassadors and I'm the secretary at NHS. So that's like kind of big that's about it and then one word to describe Ivy would be
00:05:26
Speaker
Uh, I would say loyal. I feel like she's like, I can like trust her with a lot of stuff and like trustworthy, but definitely loyal because like I can tell her stuff and I know she's going to like, she's going to take it to heart. She's not just going to like blow it off her chest, you know? And I feel like I can trust her with stuff. I like those words for both of you. That's interesting. Ivy, I knew some of your backstory. Maddie, I didn't know it as much, but so you both went from public to private school.
00:05:55
Speaker
I want to hear about that transition for you. You went to a public school in Texas, public school in suburban St. Louis. Now you got a private school. So tell us what that transition was like. Was it weird? Was it fun? Did you love it?
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, it was definitely weird. I went to public school my whole life before I went to Lutheran High. So I really liked public school actually and my public high school was really big and there were so many things I could be involved in. Like we have this ginormous theater program that I loved being a part of.
00:06:32
Speaker
and we had a dance team that I was on really big and then I came and we decided to go to Lutheran High because a lot of people at our church went and they really liked the school and I didn't know where I was going to go so I decided that was probably a good place to go and it's really small so there's less things to be involved in but I would say the programs that are really good at our school are very good we have a really good robotics program I'm not in that but like
00:06:59
Speaker
They're very good. And I don't even know if I had that in public school. Yeah, we have a really good football team. Our dance team's good. Less things to be involved in though. We did not have a robotics team at my school growing up either. So it is a plus, I guess. I am kind of surprised though, that with your dad being a pastor, that you were in public school all the way up until your sophomore year. Yeah.
00:07:25
Speaker
And what was that decision like or were you involved in that decision? Do you know how that came about?
00:07:31
Speaker
Well, so in Texas, especially where I just moved from, I lived in Dallas, there's not that many private schools. Like I think I remember like maybe three and they were like for either like very rich kids or like people that were like involved in like cheer or something. So they had like almost no time to be at school or like gymnastics, like gymnastics, you really can't be involved in a lot of other things if you're like very competitive. So there was no reason for me to like go to private school and we just never considered it.
Adjusting to Church Involvement
00:08:00
Speaker
And then when we moved to St. Louis, there was like all these people that went to private school, like everyone was talking about private school. They're like, are you going to this private school? Are you going to this private school? And I was like, what? That's an option. Did it feel weird? Yeah. It was so weird. And I was like, OK, I get to wear a uniform. Like, that's kind of cool. I was excited about wearing a uniform.
00:08:19
Speaker
because I didn't want to pick out my outfit every day. Like that's such a struggle. Like, oh, so I was excited. Okay. So you saw the uniform as freedom. It freed up some mind space. Interesting. Okay. I did not like, I don't like the uniforms. I, I, yeah, I, you liked the uniform. I had just no one. Did you attend church before going to Lutheran High? No, not really. I like went for like,
00:08:45
Speaker
Easter and for Christmas with my family, but I didn't attend like a regular Sunday church. Okay, so then I wanna start with that question then, because I think I kinda understand maybe for you, Ivy, what this would be like, but you go from public school, which is what I did, to a Christian private school, how much in your face is the Jesus talk? I wanna know that too, yeah. It was like, it was a very, so my sister has
00:09:14
Speaker
went to Lutheran High before me. So she was four years. And so when she was a senior, I was a freshman. So she kind of told me like it was gonna be like, cause I was an intro to gospel cause I didn't know anything. And I like walked in and we started saying, the Lord's Prayer. And I had no idea what that was as a freshman. And I was like, I was like, what am I getting myself into? I was like, I don't know. Like, and then everyone was carrying like
00:09:41
Speaker
We had to carry my Bible around, because it didn't fit in my book bag. And I was like, what am I doing right now? But no, and then we had chapel and small groups. And at my old school, we'd have assemblies for sports. We would never have get together and do it, because it's a public school. So it kind of was really in my face, right? And I stepped into Lutheran High. And especially, you walk in, and there's a big cross right there. And I just never experienced that before.
00:10:08
Speaker
Did it feel weird for a while? Does it still feel weird, or have you gotten used to it? It still feels weird, because still in my religion classes, I'm still a little bit behind everyone. Actually, a lot behind everyone. But I do try my best in classes.
00:10:25
Speaker
So why did your parents decide to send you to Lutheran High and your sister? Yeah. So my grandma actually used to be the cheer coach at Lutheran High and my aunts went through Lutheran High and they were all the like calm squad. And right whenever my grandma quit doing the cheer coach is when my sister came, but she was already enrolled. So she was just going to try it out. And so she joined with the new coach and she liked it and went through all four years. So then I just joined in my freshman year.
00:10:54
Speaker
So Maddie, this is interesting because you not only didn't grow up in our church, you didn't necessarily grow up going to church regularly at all. So now you're kind of plugged in to what we do at Messiah. Tell me, how did that happen? How did you end up showing up to our high school environments on Sunday nights?
Connecting with Church Community
00:11:15
Speaker
And Ivy, you can also share some of the story too because you're a part of it as well.
00:11:20
Speaker
I remember the first time I came it wasn't actually to church it was to like a pool thing last summer but it was just for leaders and I was with Ivy and I like showed up and it was like and then I was like I like these people and then like I went to the summer things with you yeah I think that was only like a year ago we like went to summer events do you remember that the I don't remember the pool event but
00:11:49
Speaker
the summer events. I mean, I, I did throw them. So I did put them on. Um, were you at the volleyball tournament? Okay. Okay. That's right. Oh man. I love that. That was fun. Uh, interesting. So that was how you got plugged in now.
00:12:08
Speaker
You know, we've always had, we've had guests come to our environments and some of them show up once and never come back. And I'm glad we got to bless them that one time, but you stay connected. And I noticed there have been Sundays you've come when Ivy wasn't there. And I thought that was very interesting. I always text her, are you going to be here tonight? And I'm like on the way. And she's like, no, I'm like, oh no. And I just took out.
00:12:35
Speaker
Oh man. But Grace is there too. Like all my other friends. Well, okay. So this is an important point that you can do great stuff as a church or as a ministry, but if you don't have the relationships and the community as a part of it, that's oftentimes what a lot of people are missing or are looking for. I have been to churches myself that I loved. Their worship was great and their preaching was great, but I didn't feel connected. I didn't have people there.
00:13:04
Speaker
And so it's hard to come back when you don't know someone. And so for you talk about like what community have you found community being plugged in here? Um, clearly Ivy's very important a friend in your life. And so you want to be there with her, but tell us a little bit about that.
00:13:23
Speaker
I just, I like the community at Messiah. Like I've gone to a few other churches, like youth groups trying to get involved and I would go like one time and I just like feel like everyone was like a click and wouldn't really talk to me. But right when I came to Messiah, I feel like it was just like, I connected with so many people that like I knew Audrey, like she went to school with me, but I haven't like talked to her. And then we came to Messiah and we like talked to each other again. And I was like, I didn't know I was gonna like be friends with her again because like,
00:13:51
Speaker
I haven't connected with her throughout the two years. But then I just feel like it's more like a community at Messiah. And I always look forward to like, it's on my alarms to leave. And I bring my brother now. He's going to do a few things. And all the guys hang out with him. And I just think it's fun for him to even get connected.
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah, your brother, by the way, killed it in the hot wing eating contest the other week. Let me just say that. He was very excited. I came home to my mom. Guess what I did? And I was like, oh, you can tell her. I have got some pictures you need to see from that because it was quite funny. Ivy, when you first came to Messiah, so I got a bunch of teenagers together once and said, we need to do what we're doing better.
00:14:36
Speaker
And you were part of that initial conversation. And I remember telling you that, you know, you were pretty fresh. I think literally a freshman or no, just you were a sophomore. So you are not only new to Messiah, you're new to your school. And I remember saying, you're gonna find people, you're gonna find friends at your school. It took some time, but, uh, how did you get connected to Maddie at school and how did you start,
00:15:07
Speaker
just inviting her to our church. I'm very interested in that. Yeah, so I met Maddie through dance. We were on the same dance team. She joined the dance team because of her sister Ella. And I had done dance whenever I lived in Texas. And then I wanted to do dance when I got here. And my coaches had contacted my coach at my school.
00:15:26
Speaker
She was super excited that I was coming. They're like, I dance here from Texas. So I was so excited. But Maddie and I actually didn't really talk our first year of being on the team together. I don't really know why. But I don't know. But at that time, I would say I probably wasn't that comfortable to invite people. I was really excited about Messiah. And I was excited about what Ryan wanted for it and what the rest of the kids that we talked to in that leadership group or whatever wanted.
00:15:53
Speaker
But I was so new that I didn't really know who all these people were. And I was going with my brother and my younger sister, and they were really new to everything. And so I think the three of us were a little scared at times and were like, I don't know what to do here. But then as I got more comfortable and saw more of our visions coming to life about what we wanted youth group to look like,
00:16:12
Speaker
I was like, oh, I really want to take some of my friends here. So I know I've taken some other dance people before, but Maddie has expressed wanting to know more about God to me. And that made me really excited. I was like, OK, I can bring a friend to youth group who actually really want to be here. And she liked it. So she kept coming. As we're sitting here talking, I'm looking at Maddie, and it hit me. We have met before.
00:16:42
Speaker
And I know this because I believe it was at Easter. So for our church, we take reservations and RSVPs and I was half in charge of that and I was helping check people in. And I remember seeing your name and you showed up. It was just you. And I was like,
00:17:10
Speaker
There's only one of her, okay. I mean, I just started thinking, what the heck? And then I don't remember exactly if Ivy, you came out and you said this is my friend or you said that you were here with Ivy. And I thought, oh, that's super cool. That's really cool. And then I think maybe it happened again, maybe just random coming. But then also was this Easter too that you,
00:17:38
Speaker
stuck around for two services, Ivy. So Ivy stuck around for two services and she said, I'm just fired up for Jesus. I'm like, who are these people? These like teenage girls. It actually can happen to my girls. They could be like this, but I mean,
00:17:58
Speaker
I know you two aren't perfect, but when I see that love and I see that curiosity, I see me and you, Maddie. I mean, just to be able to just show up and do that, give yourself some credit for that. I remember filling out the thing and I was texting Ivy and all the services were filled up and I was like, Ivy, which one are you gonna go to? And then I based it off there and the only one open was the eight
00:18:28
Speaker
and I was like, oh. I was like, are you gonna be at the next one? So Ivy stayed for two services. I went to all three. I snuck into the last one too. I just, I was really feeling the best. Wow. And he's amazing. That's so funny and that is so cool. Maddie said, or maybe it's you Ivy,
00:18:57
Speaker
You're talking about how you still have some questions about your faith and you're still trying to know who God is more, which by the way, we all are. Jill is. I'm 45 and I still don't have a clue. What are some of those questions and what are you learning about God? What are you wanting to understand about him?
00:19:20
Speaker
Oh, there's so much like I definitely get some questions during like chapel during um Assemblies and stuff when we like meet I feel like I get sometimes lost in the message because I just don't know like the Backstory to some of it or like the context that we're in unlike my peers around me that are like, oh this happened before I'm like like grace was sat by me and I was like She's always like
00:19:47
Speaker
She has to fill me in really quick, because I haven't learned about it as much. What I have learned is the basic of basic, because I went through Intro to Gospel, and then I skipped Old Testament. So I don't know much about the Old Testament, and I skipped New Testament class to be with the juniors in my grade. So there is a lot that I still don't know.
00:20:11
Speaker
I think that is so important to remember. Oftentimes, when we're upfront, as a teacher, as someone who speaks upfront, it's very easy to get in a place of, you know the story of Dave and Goliath, right? Well, just like in that story, and I, you know, you can skip over that story and just assume everyone in the audience knows it because you're at a private Christian school or whatever. There's always someone in your audience. And if there isn't, you should assume there's someone in your audience that doesn't know the stories that you might think they know.
Context in Religious Teachings
00:20:42
Speaker
And I have learned that, you know, my time with our confirmation, our middle school students has really taught me that you've got to slow down and walk them through this so that they feel invited and included. I'm really glad you have.
00:20:58
Speaker
friends and connections at your school. I can be there on the side like, okay, so this is what happened there. And cause they know, I don't know that much either. So like one time we were, I don't know where I was, but they're saying like a really important story. And I was like, and like, everyone was answering questions about it. And then it got to me and I was like, I like truly don't know because like, I never really like learned about this. I've never really dove into this story. So it gets confusing at times for sure.
00:21:27
Speaker
And I'm glad that Ivy, you've been there as well. And it sounds like there are multiple people, Maddie, in your life that have been there to connect you to this greater story. I want to know though, being in a private school, I think sometimes people assume if I send my kids to private school,
00:21:47
Speaker
They're gonna be around good kids that don't do anything wrong. And that's an over exaggeration. But I think there is this idea that there's somehow less brokenness in a private Christian school than in a public school. Is that true? Is that not quite accurate? What's the culture like at a private school? I would say they definitely encourage good behavior more than a public school would.
00:22:14
Speaker
But one thing I would say is like everyone's broken and definitely there's many people at our school that are broken and our school is actually not like all Christian at all. We have these big projects our senior year that you have to interview a non-Christian and like learn about their faith and ask them questions about it interview them and like
00:22:34
Speaker
There's at least 10 people in every class that interview someone from our school because there are people from our school that are not Christians and they never become Christians while they're at our school. And their parents send them there because they have good sports or they just want them to be in a more positive environment maybe.
00:22:49
Speaker
And I would say sometimes I feel like it's more positive. I would say that in public school, you have sometimes cops just standing around. And I understand why, but they're not looking for us to do bad things at our school. They actually reward us when we do good things. They have the Cougar Character Award every quarter of the semester. They recognize four students, one from each grade, that have done above and beyond Christian service. They've just been a good kid. And some of them aren't Christian. You don't have to be Christian to get that award.
00:23:19
Speaker
And so I like that they like are looking for good things too. And they're not just constantly like looking like, oh, are you doing something illegal? Like, are you doing something that you should not be doing in high school? Should I dress code you? Like that kind of stuff. And I feel like my teachers don't look for that here. So that's a good thing. What does it mean to be a Christian to you? That is a hard question.
00:23:42
Speaker
I feel like there's not really an answer to what does it mean to be a Christian. It kind of depends on the person. So I guess I ask that because when you said that there are kids in your school that aren't Christians, how do you define that?
Exploring Christian Identity
00:23:59
Speaker
Well, so I know some kids that are atheists that go to my school or like Jewish or like Muslim or something that identify with a different religion, which would mean not Christian to me personally. That doesn't mean that they don't believe in a God though. And so I think it's kind of maybe more of a debate like, do they believe in God or like, are they identifying with who Christians identify with?
00:24:26
Speaker
a lot of denominations are in the Christian church, and some people believe that certain people are Christians, and some people believe those people aren't. It's like Mormons. Some people don't find Mormons to be Christians, and some people do find Mormons to be Christians. It's like, how do we debate that? It doesn't directly say in the Bible, this section of Christianity is not actually Christianity. We don't know.
00:24:50
Speaker
I'm curious what some of those students, I mean, they, from what I know of your school, you know, they're coming every day to a devotion or gospel or small groups. So they have direct contact with the good news. So what are their takeaways? Are they like, Oh, I see things differently now, or this is even weirder than I thought, you know, what,
00:25:18
Speaker
What are their thoughts being in a Christian environment and not being a believer? One of my friends plays football and he technically does not believe that he is Christian.
00:25:29
Speaker
I'm not exactly sure what he identifies as, but he does believe in God and he'll, you know, like get a touchdown or something. He's pointed up to this guy. He's like, this is all for you God, you know? So clearly he's connected to something there. And I don't know, like for him, like I think he actually does like the devotionals and stuff, even though technically he would say he's not a Christian and everyone that comes and speaks to us is identifying as a Christian. But because we're talking about God, he feels like it relates to him. And I don't know, he likes hearing about it.
00:25:58
Speaker
What do they, do you ever hear them pushing back on anything they teach or any of the devotions or chapels?
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah, there's some kids like in our religion classes. I feel like you've probably seen this too that like they'll raise questions or whatever to the teachers. There's actually quite a bit of that. They'll talk about like something Christian, especially if it's like controversial, like we're talking about like gay rights or something like that. Like there's a lot of kids that will raise their hand and they're like, I don't believe that to be true. Or like, I don't think it says that in the Bible or something like that. Or I don't know, people that like aren't even Christian will like, they'll try to like talk to the teacher about it.
00:26:32
Speaker
Here's what I love about these conversations. We are spending a lot of time on school, which is very interesting to me because chapel, I wanna bring that up. So I wrote down chapel at the high school level, question mark. So going to chapel for me as a church worker and now that my daughters are going to a private Christian school,
00:27:00
Speaker
I had no idea what it was, what it was about. And I hope this isn't, I don't hope nobody takes offense to this, but I do feel like when you go to chapel, it's the same thing. You're awesome, God loves you, which is, that's true, it is. And this is how you should know you're great. It's like, okay, when you have early childhood to eighth grade, you can't get too in depth, right? You have to just,
00:27:29
Speaker
preach that word of the love and whatever. But what is it like at the high school level? Because Maddie, you were talking about not understanding some things and so I'm thinking, okay, well, you know, how does that work? What is that like? And maybe for the listener that doesn't really understand what chapel is, do you, I don't know, do you want to go through that, Ryan? Or how do you explain that? Because nobody explained it to me.
00:27:55
Speaker
how do I do a chapel or? What is a chapel? I mean, would you say it is the one day of the week that the school comes together, kind of like your own worship, like a Sunday, would you?
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's so Lutheran high specifically it's it's a little different because they do, you know, they're two devotions during the week, which is basically a guy comes up or girl. They give a little 10, 15 minute talk and walk away. Chapel's basically that with some music. It's a little bit longer is liturgy sometimes. Yeah. Um,
00:28:33
Speaker
So it's a pretty basic format. But to me, I see a chapel at their school and at our school. But to me, this is the biggest group of unchurched people that I'm going to get to speak to for a while.
00:28:53
Speaker
because they're showing up to our building on a Sunday night, they're churched. But clearly, as what they've said, there's a lot of unchurched people in that audience. And so if I have one more message to give to them, what am I gonna tell them? If this is the last time they're gonna listen to anyone up there on a Wednesday or a Monday or Friday, maybe they're coming in that room and they're thinking, I'm bored of this, I'm sick of it. This is my last one that I'm really gonna listen to. And from here on out, I'm putting my headphones in and I don't care.
00:29:23
Speaker
What does that kid need to hear? How can I give them a compelling view of the gospel? How can God speak to me? What do they need to hear about God? I love it because of that.
00:29:36
Speaker
It's a different space than what we do on a Wednesday night or Sunday night for our students just for that reason alone. It kind of excites me to get in that room and to speak to people like that, to speak to people like Maddie that are like, it's a good reminder. There are people that don't know all these stories that I grew up hearing that a lot of other people didn't.
00:29:57
Speaker
It blows my mind that you said going to a chapel, let's just say high school, let's not take K through eighth, going to a high school Christian school, you have the opportunity to speak to more unchurched individuals than whatever on a Sunday.
00:30:16
Speaker
I say unchurched. I also use the words maybe unconnected. Maybe they're a member at a church, but they don't go anymore. And I don't know what the number is, but I know, you know, if they're a regular person showing up in our environments, you know, they're churched because they're literally showing up to church. But if they're at a school, I don't know their background. And I know from what they've said, from what our students who go to the school have said, there's a lot of kids there that
00:30:46
Speaker
don't believe in Jesus or maybe they are a member of the church, but they don't go anymore. So that's who I feel like really compelled to speak to in those spaces. Do either of you have any, I mean, we know about Maddie, how you feel about chapel sometimes, but any thoughts on that? I mean, I would say that Ryan does a really good job of like appealing to those kids. Yeah. I agree with that. Sometimes I actually can relate to, but sometimes people will sit up there and it's the same.
00:31:16
Speaker
Something from Matthew, I don't know. It's the same thing every time. And I'm like, I still don't understand because they're not getting me into the story, like asking questions and stuff. Whenever if someone I know is doing it, I feel like I listen better than someone that has done it for many years. And they're not really relating it to our lives today and how, I don't know, teenagers today relate that to them instead of relating it to a Sunday morning.
00:31:45
Speaker
with audience from three to older age. So it's relating it to teenagers. It is hard, I'll say, to bring all of that in. And so I do empathize for the people, especially the pastors that come in. And they're not a youth minister. They're a pastor. They don't speak to teenagers on a regular basis. And so I do empathize for them there.
00:32:13
Speaker
It's a tough crowd. Not because there's anything wrong with y'all, it's just a tough crowd. And it comes back to kind of what I said with Audrey and Jenna, you teenagers, you're almost adults. So I can almost speak to you like an adult and yet you're also still growing, you're still learning.
00:32:34
Speaker
So what does someone in that position need to hear? Someone who's becoming independent yet isn't fully independent. Someone who maybe grew up in the church but has forgotten all the stories. There's many variables there. It's gotta be a nuanced.
Teenagers' Pressure to Mature
00:32:49
Speaker
message, a nuanced thing to speak to them. This brings me to a question that I want to know as an adult, and Jill probably wants to know it too. What do you wish adults understood better about teenagers? I feel like a lot of people expect high schoolers to grow up right away.
00:33:09
Speaker
and you're right you're talking to like people that are about to go into adulthood but I think it's also important to remember we're not in adulthood though so the expectations that are put on high schoolers are like a lot of the time like to be an adult like you need to have like long job like lots of hours like get paid a lot you need to
00:33:27
Speaker
you know like do your own like taxes and stuff like I have like friends that like are like getting their oil changed and their car repaired all the time and they're like helping their mom pay bills and I'm like oh my gosh like you're still a kid so I wish sometimes I guess that adults would understand that you know we still want the high school experience we are still a kid and
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, you didn't get that experience when you were in middle school, elementary school. So once you're in high school, like we're eager to still be kids and we're not exactly ready to grow up. And there is a point when you should encourage them to, but.
00:33:59
Speaker
I feel like even my freshman year, I was told all the time, you're about to go to college, you need a plan right now. I'm like, what? I just got into high school. I'm 14. I know, I'm like, my little brother's going into high school right now. He's not going to college anytime soon, but he kind of is, and he's gonna start having those conversations right now. And I feel like that can be a lot of pressure on someone sometimes. I would say kind of branching off of that though, I just feel like a lot, like we see a bunch of other teenagers our age that are like,
00:34:28
Speaker
influencers and stuff and they're like making so much money and like doing all these platforms and everything and we see that and we kind of feel like more bad about ourselves like oh should we be doing that we should still be like kids though so it's like there's a lot of different perspectives of like a teenager nowadays that I think adults can get kind of confused with and like
00:34:50
Speaker
Kind of, cause like, my mom was always like, when I was younger and I'm like, no, but it's like kind of like different now, like, cause we have like phones and stuff and different technology and cars. I mean, they had cars, but like. Yeah. Back in the 1900s, I was born then.
00:35:13
Speaker
I never got to call people I just had to show up at their house and like yeah but now like we have phones and like technology to like do stuff so like I feel like they almost had to grow up faster than like we had to grow up with like maturing and everything. That's a great point both of you. Your comment about seeing
00:35:33
Speaker
I think our culture does see so many young people get really famous, really rich, really quickly. And it's funny because I don't know what parents are saying to Gen Z in this regard, but I grew up in the culture where the internet was just coming to the foray
00:35:50
Speaker
gaming was just coming the foray and we were all told, don't get into gaming. You're not going to get anywhere if that's just a waste of time and don't get into the, spend all your time online. Cause it's not going to get you anywhere either. And now the richest, most successful people are the people that spend all their time gaming and on the internet. So it's just kind of funny how quickly things have changed. And maybe that's where some of that pressure is coming from. It's the pressure of we want to get stuff out of our life. We want a good job and we want money. And so,
00:36:20
Speaker
It's almost like, okay, if I get started just a little sooner, I'll have an edge. Well, then everyone else starts a little sooner, right? And so you got to start a little further back and you start a little further back. And now you have, you know, people putting their kids into specific
00:36:36
Speaker
like elementary schools to set themselves up for the future. And I'm just like, wow, we are really planning this life far in advance. And maybe that's a good thing. I don't know. I'm not a parent, but I can see how that builds into that pressure. I'm curious. Ivy, you said it sounded like you were saying you wish adults were more patient with teenagers because you're almost adults, but not quite yet.
00:37:05
Speaker
And I remember your, your college decision process. That was an interesting one. Cause you're coming right up to the end. And I remember your mom coming to me and saying, I'd be still deciding. And I checked my calendar and realized it was April of your senior year. Um, did you need a push at some point to come to that decision? Are you, are you simmering in it still? Like, how did you reach that? Decision of I'm going to Northern Arizona university.
00:37:33
Speaker
I forget a lot that I'm actually going. Sometimes I'm like, wait, what? I think I'm still in middle school. I don't know, I feel so young, but also sometimes I definitely feel like I'm really old and I should be adulting or something. But it took a while for me to decide, I think, because I was so focused on what I was doing in high school. I was really involved in dance, and dance season lasts until March.
00:37:57
Speaker
So, you know, like everyone else like was kind of done with their stuff and they were like, okay, so like, let's move on to the next chapter. And I was still so excited about going to prom. And like, I was really excited about, I don't know, just lots of things. And actually I was prom dress shopping in Arizona with my aunt whenever we decided to like go tour.
00:38:18
Speaker
Northern Arizona University. And it wasn't because I was necessarily gonna go. It was just kind of for fun. Her twin boys are going there with me next year and they're my age. So we went and toured and I was like, yeah, this is my second favorite school. I'm not going here though. And I remember flying home and my parents were talking to me and they're like, well, this is an actual possibility. This would make sense. This is a good school. You should potentially go here. And I'm like, yeah, maybe later.
00:38:47
Speaker
It was like, wait, actually it's like really soon, like maybe I should make that decision. I don't know. And then I remember whenever I guess we kind of did make the decision, like I hadn't even realized that we did make the decision. And so I was texting one of my friends and like I went over to her house and I was talking to her and her mom and
00:39:08
Speaker
They're like, oh, so have you decided college? And I was like, yeah, I'm going to Northern Arizona. And they're like, what? You didn't tell anyone? And I was like, oh, I guess I didn't. I don't know. It just feels like it's so far in the future that I didn't need to tell anyone. So I don't know. I think some people don't know where I'm going, but I've tried to tell more people. Yeah, yeah. There is a, and I guess it's an awkward balance of wanting to be patient with your kid as a parent.
00:39:38
Speaker
I'm glad they did speak a little bit too and say this is a real possibility, you know, and I would say to parents
00:39:44
Speaker
You know, it's important to listen to your kids. It's important to, you know, you want them to listen to you. Be reciprocal. Be willing to listen to them. Be willing to be patient with them. But also don't say nothing. Don't have no voice. I've seen the inverse problem where parents can be so passive and so uninvolved that it ends up having negative effect. And so again, it's just a tough balance. I'm glad you had parents that were,
00:40:10
Speaker
Patience, probably a little impatient at times, pointed you directions, but also let you arrive to that decision yourself. I think that's really important. As we're talking about adults, you've got a lot of Christian leaders at our church that are adults. As teenagers, what are you looking for from Christian leaders, such as myself or our pastors or small group leaders, all these adults you have in your life, what are you looking for
Building Trust with Teenagers
00:40:39
Speaker
from them?
00:40:39
Speaker
from like Christian leaders and from like my small group leader, especially we break off into the boy girl small groups. I feel like I can really like talk to them about my faith and stuff and like just trust between the conversation, like what we're talking about. So I feel like it's more like a trust, but also like I want to hear like their story too. So like I can learn life experiences from them as well. Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like whenever I was like freshman, sophomore, maybe even junior in high school, I was looking a little more for like
00:41:08
Speaker
You know, a lot of guidance and someone to like talk about my problems with and that kind of thing. And lately I feel like I've been looking a little more for somebody that, you know, is similar ish and age to me, someone that like recently like went through.
00:41:24
Speaker
what I'm about to go through that can give me advice. So I know one of our leaders, she's still in college. And so she's able to talk to me about what she just went through and how her first year of college was. And that's really helpful for me right now, almost to have a friend that's still older than me, still can give me advice and stuff. But someone that I can talk to more that relates to me. And I know some leaders can be at other churches that I've been at.
00:41:52
Speaker
or like older leaders, and not that those people can't have wisdom for you, I absolutely think they can, but it was a little harder for them to connect, because it would be like, you know, back in my day, like, this is what we did, and I'm like, well, college has changed a lot since then, and high school has changed a lot since then, and you know, I don't know, it's just, it's a different kind of like relation. So I'm really thankful that we have like younger leaders that have gone through like experiences that I'm about to go through and can talk to me about that.
00:42:20
Speaker
in looking for some of that guidance. I'm curious, do you want to reach out to that leader and get that and say, Hey, I could use some wisdom on this or would it work better for that person to reach out to you? Cause this is a big question in small groups. Like should the adult be the first to reach out and engage in, Hey, you're going to this next stage of your life. How can I help you? Or would you rather be the one to initiate a conversation?
00:42:47
Speaker
I think that the adult should initiate it at first because sometimes we're just not comfortable. We're not really sure that they even want that kind of relationship. And I know our leaders do, but some leaders don't want that. And so if they initiate it first, then I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable being like coming back to them and saying, okay, I have another question. Like, can we talk about this? Because I've already established that they want to talk to me and that they'll answer my questions. It'll help me out with that. I think a lot of times people in, in,
00:43:16
Speaker
leadership roles of the church. You can say from a stage, my door's always open. You can come to me whenever you want. And that's true and great. And I think I've said that before, but I have to remind myself that sometimes I have to be willing to go up and myself have the courage to ask you how you're doing and where you're at. Because as awkward and nervous as it might be for me to ask you that question, you're probably feeling the same way or even more because you're a teenager coming to an adult with questions about your life.
00:43:47
Speaker
And so maybe for us leaders in the church, not a position of a passive open door and not a position of just telling you what I think and walking away, but a position of curiosity and coming and asking, how are you? How's it going? And letting the conversation go from there. Maybe that's the right approach. I'm out of questions, but this has been a good conversation, Jill, to you.
00:44:17
Speaker
Well, I can't let you go Ivy without talking about being, is it known as a PK?
Perceptions of Pastor's Kids
00:44:24
Speaker
Yes. Pastors kid. We learned about that earlier on when we first launched. Talk briefly about that. I mean,
00:44:33
Speaker
Is there this pressure that you put on yourself? Is there pressure that people put on you? I would have to think that, like, what is that like? And why are we so obsessed with wanting to know what it's like to be a pastor's child or kid? Yes, it's definitely a well thought of experience that people want to know about. Cause I guess not many people get that experience. Definitely being at a private school, more people have asked me that. Cause I guess maybe they know more that I'm a pastor's kid cause my dad comes around.
00:45:03
Speaker
And there's probably a few pastor's kids at the school. There are also, yes, more pastor's kids than I've ever seen in one place. At this school, there's a lot of them. So I'm like, oh, wow, people that I can relate to. But there is this good versus bad pastor's kid that everyone has an idea that you are either a good pastor's kid or a bad pastor's kid. And if you're a good pastor's kid, you have to be very good. You are an angel. Everyone thinks you're the nicest person in the whole world. You're so sweet.
00:45:31
Speaker
Everyone has really good things to say about you, teacher's pet, that kind of thing. And otherwise, you're a bad pastor's kid. And bad pastor's kids are known for rebelling because they, I guess, had this really structured parental guidance their whole life. And I think they want people to think different of them. I don't know that they have different values. They're more fun than their parents would expect of them.
00:45:57
Speaker
And so that's kind of a bad place to get grouped into. I've been told before that I'm a bad pastor's kid. They didn't explain it to me, but I've also been told I'm a good one. So I don't know. I don't know if I really care. This is, you know, we really do have the binary nature of our culture so
00:46:20
Speaker
frustrating sometimes. Those are big, heady words. Basically, we divide things into two sides. Republican, Democrat. Private, public. Private, public. You're either a Christian who knows everything, or if you don't know everything, then you must not be a Christian. And you're either a good pastor kid or a bad pastor's kid. What if people are people that have multiple sides to them, they're multifaceted,
00:46:48
Speaker
that have sides that are good and helpful and sides that are broken and struggling. What if that's how we all were? And what if pastor's kids were the same way? I was just going to say, or what if Ivy is just a kid who has a mom and a dad and they do good things and they make mistakes and Ivy has some great things and she's made mistakes.
00:47:08
Speaker
but I still like to know. I actually, I was actually, whenever I found out you were a pastor's kid, I was kind of like scared. So I was like, Oh no, she's going to judge me. I went to public school. She's like, Oh my gosh. And then she's like, I went to public school. I was like, what? Are you a pastor's kid? And I was like, she kind of relates to me though. Cause we both go to public school. We're like the only ones on the dance that went to public school. It's just a title. Yeah. It's literally just a title.
00:47:38
Speaker
Well, I just think it's been a joy to listen to the both of you and just totally different dynamics and backgrounds. And I will say this is a little bit of a background to the listener.
Appreciation for Relatable Leadership
00:47:52
Speaker
When we were putting together the thought process on the faith of the next generation and the high school kids that Ryan wanted to bring in, he has nailed it so far. I mean, this is why you do what you do. And in our last episode, in this episode, you had the ladies describe each other in one word. Well, I think that we already know the word for you, and it's relatable.
00:48:21
Speaker
And so I am so glad that this is what you're doing. I don't think that people would come on like Ivy and Maddie to talk about their experience if it wasn't the experience like this. You know, they would not, I don't feel like you girls are forced to be here. Like you really are excited about this and excited about what Ryan's doing and what's gonna happen in the future generations. So thanks to all three of you.
00:48:51
Speaker
love this conversation and it makes me want to learn more about the both of you that that both these conversations have made me want to follow up with
00:49:00
Speaker
you two with the other two. And I'm guessing that's how they're all going to be. Yeah. So we're going to bring the boys in for the next episode. We're going to have their perspective. And I don't even know what to think. Like I have some different things going on in my mind that I think is going to happen. And but I shouldn't assume that. So
00:49:23
Speaker
That is going to be the next route we take. We're going to get the guy's perspective. So make sure you are listening for our next episode of Normal Goes a Long Way. Thanks, ladies.