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Suicide Squad: Hell To Pay
147 Plays5 years ago
The best Suicide Squad movie isn't the live-action one, but this animated feature from a few years ago. We talk up Christian Slater's take on Deadshot, debate which version of Harley Quinn we like better, and explain why DC's second-string villains are better than Marvel's.
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Transcript
Who Deserves Hell?
00:00:20
Speaker
This was hell, Captain Kangaroo. Hey, all right, first up, that's offensive. I'll tell you another thing. If any of us truly deserves hell, it's Waller. And that bitch knows it. I ain't got the way she does. I ain't worried. I know I'm going to heaven. Anyone who can put up with Mr. J deserves a break. See, the problem is, sweetheart, you have to die in order to find out if the card really works. It'd be pretty bloody embarrassing if it didn't. What about you, gunman?
00:00:50
Speaker
I could wipe away all the blood you spilled. Well, don't you believe in heaven? I believe in heaven, Boomer. Every time you shut your mouth. You joke about heaven and hell deadshot, but trust me, they exist. As night of morning goes by, I don't get up wondering if this will be my judgment day. Will I end up with a woman I love?
00:01:17
Speaker
who face the lake of Hellfire with the same vermin who brought me down. The only thing any of us can hope for is to find an invention. Only through the grace of God can we be saved from eternal damnation for all the blood we spilled. Everything else is just talk.
00:01:47
Speaker
So I guess the card couldn't hurt there, no?
Recent Viewing: Cromwell & Snyder Cut
00:01:49
Speaker
Welcome to Superhero Cinephiles. I am half of your host, Perry Constantine. And as always, I am the other half, Derek Ferguson. How you doing today, Derek? Oh, pretty good. I can't complain. I got to watch two good movies today, one of which we will be talking about very shortly. And what was the other one? I watched a movie, a historical drama called Cromwell.
00:02:15
Speaker
It was made in the 1960s with Richard Harris. Yeah, and it was a nice historical drama. Anybody out there, if you've got Amazon Prime, you can watch it via Amazon Prime, no extra charge. And I just watched it because I'm a Richard Harris fan. And he goes through this movie and he's like the personification of that saying, you know, anger gets shit done.
00:02:41
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because he stays angry. I've never seen the actor that started out angry and just got more and more angry as the movie went on. And that's what he does in this one. So yeah, but it's about, you know, it's a historical drama. It takes place in England. And Alec Guinness, he plays the king, and they're trying to overthrow the king because he's disbanded parliament.
00:03:07
Speaker
And now he needs parliament to get back together because he wants money to go to war against Scotland. And, you know, it was really entertaining. I enjoyed it. So that's another free movie recommendation for you guys out there. Cromwell starring Richard Harris.
00:03:21
Speaker
Okay, cool, cool. I had been
Nostalgia: Simpsons, Clone Wars & Media Overload
00:03:24
Speaker
rewatching Parks and Recreation lately, because I think it was Barry Reese mentioned that he started watching it, and I'm like, you know what, I haven't seen that in a while, so I started rewatching it from the second season, because the first season is crap, but man, that show is so good.
00:03:39
Speaker
Well, it's not that it's crap. And this is what I told Barry. I said, listen, hang in there until the second season. Because it's not until the second season they figured out what show they were doing. Yeah, the first season they were still very much in office territory. Well, it's the Amy Poehler show, really. It's really not like an ensemble.
00:03:57
Speaker
that it eventually turned into. It turned into an ensemble thing. The first season, yeah, it's really, yeah. And that first season, it was much more like, you know, the office light. Exactly, yeah. And Amy Poehler, Leslie Knopf in that first season, she felt, she feels like a different character than she became in the second season going forward.
00:04:18
Speaker
exactly exactly like i said by the time they get to the second season they said okay now we know what now we know what show we're doing yeah yeah and so rewatching that has been a lot of fun like i was surprised like how much i'm really getting into it and i've also been putting um
00:04:33
Speaker
I started The Simpsons from the first season on Disney Plus, and I put it out in the background when I'm reading comics or something, just to have some background noise. And you know what's interesting in that is because all this time, for most of The Simpsons run, I had seen it through reruns on Fox, because they showed it five times a day on Fox. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so it's interesting to go back and say, whoa, wait, that episode was in the first season? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so that's been fun to do, too.
00:05:03
Speaker
I haven't started watching it yet because what I'm doing now, I'm right in the middle of the Clone Wars, Star Wars, Clone Wars. Cause I seen like the first two seasons, but for some reason I didn't continue watching it and I don't know why because I'm a Star Wars fan. So I've been watching that and that's what I want to do next. I want to watch, you know, The Simpsons right from the start because once I saw Disney Plus had all of the seasons of The Simpsons,
00:05:33
Speaker
I said, oh, yeah, well, I can't pass up this opportunity to start for. I think that the only episode that they don't have is the one with Michael Jackson. I read something. Yeah, that's the only one that they don't have on there. Oh, and Comixology had a big sale on Daredevil stuff, so I picked up
00:05:54
Speaker
Spent way too much money on that stuff the other day. Oh man, please uh Well, I didn't have to spend any money on that last week, but they had like Batman black and white. Oh, yeah Yeah, they had like all the individual issues, but they had them for free. Yeah, I picked up all those. Oh my god Okay, you know what? I and I can't get nothing else on my Kindle I have to like go get one of those uh, I have to get like an SD card. Mm-hmm
00:06:21
Speaker
you know, for storage, so I can put the stuff on there. Or else, just like sit down and read some of this shit. Yeah, yeah. Instead of just down, instead of just clicking and downloading it. Because I was looking at my Kindle the other day, I'm looking for another book to read. And I'm not going to lie to you, Perry. I would say there's about a good 50 books that's on there. I don't even remember downloading those things. Oh, don't even get me started. Don't even get me started on that.
00:06:47
Speaker
I said, why did I download this? You know what? I took an inventory of my iTunes library because for some reason there's some like weird syncing issue where the unwatched movies on Apple TV from my iTunes library, they don't display right. So they don't always register right. So I went through the library and I'm like, okay. And I made a list on letterbox of all the movies that I haven't watched yet that I own. There's like damn near 200 movies in there. Oh my God.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah.
The Snyder Cut Debate and COVID Impact
00:07:17
Speaker
Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes I have to do like my Netflix queue. There's like, Oh, I did that like about six, eight months ago. I went through it. I'm saying, why is it still on here? I have never watched it. I'm never going to watch it. I don't even know why it's here. Yeah.
00:07:34
Speaker
And no lie, there was about a hundred movies that I just cut off on my cue. Because I said, this is ridiculous. And especially if I haven't watched it by now, well, apparently I'm never going to watch it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which has been my thing now.
00:07:54
Speaker
If I download something or if I record something on my DVR, if I haven't watched it by the end of the month, I just delete it. To hell with it. Yeah. If I really need to watch it, I can always go back and find it someplace. Yeah. There are free books on my Kindle that I downloaded, no joke, 10 years ago probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:17
Speaker
Same thing with me. I've got free books that I downloaded like five years ago, five years ago, and I have no idea why. It'd be different if I knew the writer. I'd say, okay, well, I downloaded this because I know so and so. I don't even recognize the name.
00:08:32
Speaker
Something else we should mention before we get into today's movie, which is something we talked about briefly before we got on the air. And it was like the first thing I woke up to this morning. Like I woke up about like an hour ago and soon as I wake up, I see I got a message on Facebook and I'm like, oh man, I hope Derek's not gonna have to cancel again. But the message is from a buddy of mine and it's a link saying that they're finally releasing the Snyder Cut of Justice League.
00:09:02
Speaker
Nah, yeah, that's all I saw all day long on Facebook. Seriously, that was the only thing I've seen. So I guess all the whining and bitching and moaning by Snyder fanboys over the past, what, like three years now has finally paid off. But here's the thing.
00:09:23
Speaker
as I was telling somebody earlier on, because, of course, everybody jumped on me and said, oh, you said that they were never going to release it. And I said, no, that's not what I said. I said, if they had it, they would release it. If they thought they were going to make money off of it. I said, which has always been my thing. I would say, if there is a Snyder cut, and I said, no, I don't think there is one, but if there is one, they're not going to release it unless they're going to be able to make a lot of money off of it. And, and now with the Corona virus,
00:09:52
Speaker
There has been so many productions or movies and TV shows that have suspended. This is an excellent way for HBO Max to get attention to their streaming service. Because of course, everybody's all streamed out. But this is an excellent way to draw attention.
00:10:14
Speaker
to HBO Max whereas otherwise most people would have said yeah okay well just another streaming service so what you know yeah and the the article i read about it too um is uh Deborah Snyder his his wife and his co-producer on the movies uh she had said that um one of their pitches to Warner Brothers was well look all these VFX studios and everything right now they don't have any work so this will give them something to work on so i think it is kind of like this perfect storm if this hadn't happened i don't know if we would actually be getting a Snyder cut
00:10:45
Speaker
Well, see, that's my thing. I was talking to somebody earlier on, and that was my take. I said, you know something, if it hadn't been for the coronavirus, we probably never would have seen it anyway. But they figured, you know what, people are home now anyway. People are thirsting for stuff to watch. So, you know, hey, you know, why not? And the people who have to finish the effects. Because what people, I think what a lot of people don't understand is it's not, it wasn't a finished movie. It was a movie that was made before all the effects were added.
00:11:15
Speaker
And Snyder's movies are heavy on visual effects. So there's a lot of work that's still gotta be done on that thing. See, that was my thing. People acted like this was a whole complete movie he had finished. No, it was. That's not how it works. They don't give you all that money to start the VFX work before they've seen a cut of it. Yeah. And like you said, Snyder, his movies are very
00:11:41
Speaker
you know, the visuals are very heavy on that. So yeah, but hey, listen, anything that puts people back to work, I got nothing, you know, I got, you know, nothing against that, of course. And for you good people out there, of course, if you would like for Perry and I to take a look at the Snyder Cut of Justice League and review it, all you gotta do is just let us know. And you know,
00:12:10
Speaker
Cause I, there's no, I made no secret on this show how much I hated Zack Snyder's DC movies. With, you know, Watchmen being like half an exception to it. But even still, like I've got a morbid curiosity in seeing the Snyder cut. Just cause I'm wondering, after seeing Batman V Superman, I wonder how terrible Justice League was, his Justice League was gonna be. Right.
00:12:41
Speaker
Well, I think I like Justice League more than you did. The version we got, I didn't mind. I think there's half of a good movie in there. And that half that is a good movie, I think is the Josh Whedon stuff. Yeah, I wasn't crazy about it.
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, and, and as I've said before, I didn't like, uh, what's that guy's name? Ezra Miller. I didn't like, I didn't like his flash, you know, but except for that, you know, I wasn't crazy about it, but I didn't hate it either. No, I didn't hate it. Like it was just, it was a very under, it was much better than I think we would have gotten with the Snyder cut, but it was all, at the same time, it was also very underwhelming.
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, see, that's what I think too. I think that the, like you said, I think the best parts of it was the one, you know, was the parts that Joss Whedon did. Yeah, yeah. Like Henry Cavill, he actually got a chance to play Superman for the first time in three movies in that movie.
00:13:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And I was fine with it just for that. And they brought back the Danny Elfman Batman theme. They brought back the John Williams Superman theme. Ben Affleck had grown more into the Batman role. He felt more comfortable in it. He wasn't. So he was a lot less Frank Miller Batman and a lot more like Denny O'Neill, Grant Morrison Batman, which I liked a lot more. Right, exactly. Yeah. It was, yeah, I mean, listen.
00:14:07
Speaker
Listen, I bought the Blu-ray when it came out. And occasionally when I feel like a superhero movie marathon, yeah, Justice League is one of the movies that I throw on. It's perfectly acceptable in a lot of ways. Is it flawed? Yes, it's flawed. But as we shall see when we finally see this much Ballyhoot Snyder cut, you know,
00:14:32
Speaker
We'll, you know, we'll all see how much more different it could have been. I don't think it's gonna be like, say, Prince is like, what's the best example I could think of? Like the Richard Donner. Richard Donner's Superman II, yeah. Right, Superman II, yeah. Because I mean, there was a whole bunch of stuff that he had filmed. Yeah. That was just never used, that they just threw away. And even still, even with all that stuff that was changed, like there were still problems with that cut, like when they reused the ending from Superman I.
00:15:02
Speaker
Right. Exactly. There were still problems with it. So, you know, like I said, it's not like, I think that people have got their hopes up, like they're thinking that they're going to see a whole brand new movie, you know, which, but hey. Okay. Listen, now that it's on, now that it's on the schedule, we will all see. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
All right, now with that in mind, today we're talking about an actual good DC
Grindhouse Vibes: Suicide Squad Animation
00:15:28
Speaker
movie, and that was your pick from last week, and that's Suicide Squad, Hell to Pay. Yep, yep, this one was made in 2018. Yeah. And this was an animated movie that was made a couple of years after the live action. Yeah. Suicide Squad. And it's far superior to the live action one.
00:15:51
Speaker
Well, you know what, anybody that I have a conversation with, when they tell me how much they hate, Suicide Squad and blah, blah, blah, and I said, okay, well, have you ever seen Suicide Squad held the pay? And they said no, and they didn't even know about it, which really surprises me. So apparently, DC didn't do a lot of advertising on this movie, hoping that people would just be drawn to the live action one, I guess, you know, and wouldn't see this one, because I tell everybody, okay, if you wanna see,
00:16:21
Speaker
Because in our old regular now, Sam Lu, who has directed a ton of other DC animated movies, it's like if he was given the mandate and said, okay, imagine if Quentin Tarantino or Robert Rodriguez, if they had directed
00:16:38
Speaker
a Suicide Squad movie. This is how this feels to me. I mean, once they started with the credits, which were very grind house. Yeah, and I was going to say, that's the kind of attitude you've got to take with the Suicide Squad movie. Because you've got a bunch of bad guys who are being forced to work for the government under a bad woman, and they're going out there doing bad things that are going to get them killed. So yeah, it does have that very grind house feel. I mean, the whole thing about the Suicide Squad concept was inspired by the Dirty Dozen. Exactly.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, that's, and I know I get this from people all the time. Well, I need a movie where I can root for somebody. I need somebody to like and everything. Well, that's not the Suicide Squad. They're all, you know, this is a movie about a bunch of characters that don't like each other. You know, don't give a damn about anybody. They are flat out no good.
00:17:33
Speaker
bad people who do not have a single redeeming quad. Well, I wouldn't do that because here's the thing about the Suicide Squad is they're not good guys, you're right about that, but they're bad guys you love to watch.
00:17:51
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's the thing. Who doesn't like, it's kind of like, okay, I put this in the same class where the moves, like you said, okay, the dirty dozen or, uh, you know, the wild bunch or, you know, movies of that type. I mean, these are not, okay. These are not people that you necessarily like or you want to hang out with everything like that. But it's, but it's fascinating to watch them do what they do. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:14
Speaker
And because they are these types of characters, that's what brings a level of unpredictability to the story. Because these people are constantly double-crossing each other. They're stabbing each other in the back. You don't know who's going to switch sides at the drop of a hat. You don't know who's going to stay loyal to this character. So to me, that brings a level of unpredictability that
00:18:35
Speaker
you don't get is say like a Justice League movie or an Avengers movie where you know what the characters, okay, well, you know how this is gonna play out with Iron Man or with Captain America or with Superman or with Batman, unless we're dealing with an alternate world version of these characters. But if we're dealing with the traditional version, you know how it's gonna play out.
00:18:55
Speaker
You don't get that with Harley Quinn or, you know, Amanda Waller or, you know, Captain Boomerang. You don't know how these characters are gonna act in a given. You can't point and say, okay, well, I know that they're gonna do that. Yeah. And one thing I also liked about this movie, too, is this is actually the first Suicide Squad movie that did not feature any superheroes at all. Like, you got the guy who used to be Dr. Fate, but that's it.
00:19:18
Speaker
But other than that, it's not like the first Suicide Squad animated movie, which was not even titled Suicide Squad. It was called Batman Assault on Arkham, which was using Batman to tell a Suicide Squad story, basically. And then there was, in the Suicide Squad movie, where you had Batman in a bunch of scenes, you had the Flash appear as well. But there's none of that in this movie. And it shows that they had more confidence in the characters of the Suicide Squad to just carry this movie on their own.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That was the whole thing. And that's another reason why I recommend this movie over, because I know somebody was, I was talking to somebody about it and said, oh, you should have did, you know, the assault on Arkham. I said, no, because that's basically a Batman movie. Right. The way this is, this is from beginning to end. This is the Suicide Squad. And it's a much better Suicide Squad movie than assault on Arkham.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I've never seen The Salt on Arkham, so I'm going to take your word for it. It's not bad, but it's not great. It's nothing to write home about, basically. Oh, OK. Because now I'm starting to get on the real DC animated movie kick now. Because I've seen Flashpoint Paradox. But there's one that just came out recently.
00:20:46
Speaker
And I wanna watch that Justice League- Oh, the Justice League Dark Apocalypse? Yeah, yeah, Justice League Dark Apocalypse. Even though I'm not too crazy about the whole Justice League Dark concept, I say, you know what? Let me give this a chance. Well, you know, this is like, cause with beginning with Flashpoint Paradox, they kind of started a DC animated universe that was based on the new 52 stuff. So you had, you had Flashpoint Paradox, then you had Justice League War, Justice League Throne of Atlantis.
00:21:14
Speaker
You had the the Batman and and Damien Wayne Robin movies like son of Batman Batman versus Robin Batman bad blood and then you had the death of Superman the return of Superman And then this because this one had this one is kind of like a slight sequel to Flashpoint paradox because we find out what happens to reverse flashing this right actually, yeah, and we find out you know why because
00:21:45
Speaker
The reverse flash right at the start of the movie. Well, first of all, we should tell the people what the plot of the movie is. OK, you got the Suicide Squad, which is for those of you that don't know, it's a program that was started by one of my favorite characters of all time, Amanda Waller, who goes to the government with a proposal for what she calls Task Force X, which means that any supervillains that they capture from now on
00:22:15
Speaker
They will put them on a team to carry out covert missions that, of course, that nobody else will take. In essence, they are suicide missions. But here is the deal that she offers them. You go on the mission, you survive the mission, eventually you go free. Yeah, you get time saved off your sentence. Right. You'll get eventually time to vent. And if you survive enough missions,
00:22:37
Speaker
Eventually, the notion is that you go for, of course, Amanda Waller doesn't plan that, which is why she, she escalates the mission.
Task Force X: Waller's Control
00:22:45
Speaker
And if they don't go on the mission, she has had each and every member of the squad injected with a nano bomb in their neck that will, in essence, blow their heads off if they get out of line or refuse to take the mission. And in fact, in this movie, we see a very graphic
00:23:03
Speaker
example of what happens to somebody who screws up on a mission. Oh, that's one of the things. This is one of the few R-rated DC animated movies, and they take advantage of that rating.
00:23:15
Speaker
And let me, because I'm always mindful, and I know because a lot of people, they just see animated movies with superheroes in them, and they think, okay, well, I can put this on for my kid. No, you definitely, this is an adult movie. I cannot stress that enough. Unless you don't mind your kids seeing explosions and cursing and stuff, which I grew up with and I turned out fine. But if you're one of the parents who doesn't want your kid watching that stuff, then you don't wanna show them this movie.
00:23:44
Speaker
Because actually, before the opening credits even start, something like 40 people get killed. Oh, yeah. Because there's a mini mission that we see before the main mission that has Deadshot, Count Vertigo, and Punching Julie. Yeah, and also Black Manta, too. And Black Manta, yeah, because he transports them to get on this train.
00:24:09
Speaker
You know, they basically lay waste to everybody that's in the trade. So there is an extraordinary body count even before the opening credits start. Yeah. And I really, I'm glad you mentioned that segment. I really like that segment because it feels it's like the cold opens for the James Bond movies.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I love it when they do that. And something you talked about doing with your Dylan books, where you open up with this small, unrelated mission, and it's like a shorthand to tell the audience, this is what these characters do all the time. Right, exactly. Which is why I love this so much, because we get to see their powers, we get to see what they do.
00:24:51
Speaker
So, you know what, we don't have to be told who these characters are. We see them in action doing what they do, which, like you said, I stole that from the James Bond movies, because I always liked how we see James Bond on, like, these little mini missions before the main one. It, like, gets us, you know, primed. We say, okay, James Bond is back, you know, and we got the opening credits. So, yeah, so I really liked this. And I liked the twists and turns.
00:25:19
Speaker
that it takes, you know, this opening mission. Yeah, where you got Julie and Count Vertigo, they're working together and they're trying to betray the team and all that. Yeah, and we see, and again, I have to stress, folks, that this is a movie that does not pull this punches when it comes to the violence, the level of violence. Yeah, yeah, definitely not. And you know, I gotta say, also, Christian Slater does the voice of Deadshot, and he's amazing in this. You know what? You know what?
00:25:49
Speaker
The first time I saw this movie, I didn't really pay attention to it, but I'm going to be honest. I didn't pay attention to the voice, and I'm actually going to have to go back because I wrote a review of this movie for the Ferguson Theater. And I'm going to have to reevaluate it because I really paid attention to the nuances of his voice when he was talking to the other characters. Yeah. And yeah, I really got into his performance. Him and the guy that does
00:26:19
Speaker
What do you call it? The bronze tiger? Yeah, Billy Brown. Billy Brown, yeah. I really got into it this time. And I said, oh, OK. Because Christian Slater does a lot of interesting things with his voice, where he's doing one thing, but he's saying another. And you can feel there's something else going on.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, he was really, and like you, I didn't, I wasn't really paying attention to the voices the first time around, but after I'd seen it the first time, like in the aftermath of that, I remember reading somewhere that there was some article I saw that saying like Christian Slater explains why he loved voicing Deadshot so much, and I'm like, oh, that was Christian Slater? And then when I rewatched it this time, I paid a lot more attention to that. Yeah, because you know why, and also,
00:27:04
Speaker
probably because the first time I watched it, I watched it just, you know, casually and stuff like that, which is why, uh, and for the folks listening to this that don't know this, a lot of these movies that we talk about, I have seen, but it's been a while since I've seen them. So before we record these episodes, I always like to watch them again so I can see it with a fresh eye and watch it with a more critical eye and ear so I can catch things that I, that I missed the first time around.
00:27:33
Speaker
And yeah, you know, the voice work by Christian Slater was something I really didn't pay, I have to admit, I really didn't pay attention to the first time, but I paid attention to it this time and I was much more impressed. Yeah, same here. Now, good knowing the rest of the plot. So, Amanda Waller, see how fast we digress here, bro? Well, at least, unlike most of our digressions, this was actually about the movie, so that's, so we're doing better. So, but Amanda Waller puts together
00:28:03
Speaker
This new version of Task Force X with Copperhead, Captain Boomerang, Harley Quinn, Deadshot, the Bronze Tiger, and Killer Frost, and sends them in search of a card.
00:28:20
Speaker
it's a card that says get out of hell free yeah and the idea is that if you're if you're holding this card on you when you die then you go straight to heaven you don't have to worry about being damned now this is it's actually you picked this at the perfect time because unknowingly i had not realized that they were connected but i had um you know because they
Get Out of Hell Free: Secret Six Influence
00:28:41
Speaker
Like I mentioned earlier, there was a big Daredevil sale. There was also a big DC sale at Comixology. And some of the stuff I bought was, years ago, I had read the first volume of Gail Simone's Secret Six series, and I really liked it. And I'd always been meaning to get the other books at some point. Well, they were on sale now, so I bought them. And in the second volume, it's all about this story. It's all about the Get Out of Hell free card. And I read it just last week.
00:29:07
Speaker
Oh, really? So, okay. Okay. So they got it from something else. I thought it was just something they had just cooked up just, you know, for this movie. No, no, it came from Gil Simone's Secret Six. So it wasn't necessarily a Suicide Squad, but there are a lot of the same characters. Like Deadshot was a big factor in that, in that story. He was part of the Secret Six team. Scandal Savage was part of the Secret Six team. So was, um,
00:29:31
Speaker
Well, Knockout was actually dead in the comics by that point, but she was a member and the whole thing was, Scandal was getting the card because she wanted to bring Knockout back to life.
00:29:43
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Cause they're in this movie too, because we should mention that Vandal Savage shows up and he's looking for the card too. So now you've got all of these different, you know, you've got, and then you've got the reverse flash. He's looking for the card for a reason, which we find out later on. And he's got his own team. He's got silver banshee and blockbuster. So you've got these three factions that are all
00:30:08
Speaker
Well, there's no other way to put it. Killing each other off to get this card. Yeah. You know what? Maybe it's just me. But I want to mention this about Vandal Savage, because it kind of struck me when I was watching this movie, is he's been in a lot of good
00:30:22
Speaker
movie and TV shows, right? He was in, he was in Justice League when him and Superman were like the only people left on Earth. He was in, he was also in Justice League where he like took over the planet by going back in time. He was in, you know, the Legends of Tomorrow TV show. He was like the main villain of the first season. And then he was in,
00:30:48
Speaker
you know, Justice League Doom, which both of us agreed. That's like one of our favorite of the animated movies. Absolutely. I can't think of like any comics where like he was really, he really stood out to me. And maybe I just haven't read enough DC stuff, but he's always seemed to be have more of a presence in the movies than in the comics to me. No, you're not wrong because I would actually have to be hard pressed to actually remember like a really memorable
00:31:17
Speaker
storyline that Vandal Savage, but, but, but I admit though, I haven't read as many comics as some of our listeners have. So maybe they can chime it and they can help us with that. But all I know is that every time I've seen him in every other medium, I've been impressed with the way that they've handled Vandal Savage. Yeah. Yeah. Same. He's, you know, he, you know, he's more like one of the big bads of the DC universe in the animated.
00:31:45
Speaker
and in the live action series in the comic books. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. So that was just a brief digression. That was something I never really realized it until I was watching this movie last night. I'm like, man, Vandal Savage is in a lot of these things. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. Have I even read a Vandal Savage comic book? They're just so unmemorable. Well, you know what? Vandal Savage is a great villain because it's like, OK.
00:32:11
Speaker
No matter what you do, because as you said, we've seen stories where he's still alive in the far future. It's like no matter what you do, you're never going to get rid of this guy. This cat is always going to be out there, so we're plotting and planning. It's like, okay, well, we can get rid of him for a while.
00:32:31
Speaker
There's a part in the movie where reverse flash, he tells them, you know, they're trying to get the card and they said, Oh, we can find saying, Oh, you don't know this. This guy disappears for hundreds of years. He's a, I'm never finding them. Yeah. He said, this guy disappeared. You don't understand.
00:32:47
Speaker
So yeah, so that was something that jumped out at me. And I thought this was a cool lineup they chose for the Suicide Squad because obviously you got the mainstays like Deadshot and Bronze Tiger and Captain Boomerang who were mainstays back in the John Ostrander run in the 80s. And then you have Harley Quinn who's become a mainstay in the newer volumes as well. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
And then you also have, cause then, cause those are like, those are like the classic Suicide Squad characters. And then you have some other characters that are thrown in there to kind of like vary it up a little bit, like the kind of rotating characters. So in that, in this one, it's basically Killer Frost and Copperhead. And Copperhead, yeah. Who? Who? I was mildly surprised that they showed up. Cause like you said, I thought they would go with some of the like higher profile types of characters who have been members.
Comic Origins: Suicide Squad Roster
00:33:38
Speaker
of the suicide squad in the past. But as you quite rightly point out, as long as you go with Deadshot, Bronze Tiger, Captain Boomerang, and Harley Quinn, you know, I mean, cause let's face it, those are the ones that people are going to be most familiar with and who want to see anyway. Right. Yeah. Cause I think that Captain Boo, cause if I remember from the Australia days at Boomerang, he really handled him well during that run. Yeah. Captain Boomerang. He was, he was,
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, Deadshot and Captain Boomerang, they were like core members of the Ostrander run. Right. And I remember Amanda Waller was always calling him Boomer Butt. Yeah, Boomer Butt, yeah. Yeah, so the lineup that they have in here, and one thing I like about this movie is that
00:34:30
Speaker
Okay, in a movie that's called Suicide Squad, you expect some people to get killed. This movie is not afraid to kill all people. No, no. Like right from the start, like they kill Punch and Julie and Count Vertigo. Yeah, Count Vertigo, they get zapped in the first 10 minutes. I was like, whoa, okay. But see, again, that lets you know that this movie, again, it goes back to the own print.
00:34:52
Speaker
the unpredictability factor that I enjoy so much is that this movie lets you know right from the start. Nobody is safe. And that goes back to Ostrander's run because he did not take that name lightly, Suicide Squad. He killed a bunch of characters in that series. Oh, yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, he killed a lot of characters. I wouldn't have believed DC would let them kill off. Yeah. I mean, granted, you know, it's DC, so most of them ended up coming back later. But yeah, he killed a bunch in that series.
00:35:24
Speaker
We know right from the start that
00:35:28
Speaker
Not everybody is guaranteed to survive until the end except for Amanda Waller and Harley Quinn I said, well, there's no way you know, they're too popular, you know, they're never gonna kill them all now it was a this was a speaking of Amanda Waller, I thought they made a kind of interest I was kind of surprised by the choice they made with her because the new 52 they made it Amanda Waller thin and like supermodel which fans objected to like a lot of fans were pissed off by that
00:35:58
Speaker
And it kind of surprised me because this movie came out, you know, seven years after the New 52. You know, it came out, what, like two or three years after the Suicide Squad movie where you had Viola Davis play her. So it really surprised me that they went with the thin version of Amanda Waller in this.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, if I have any complaints with this movie, I am one of those people not a fan of supermodel Amanda Waller. No, I mean, she's called The Wall for a reason. Yeah, you know what? I like Amanda Waller as she was originally presented. As a matter of fact, if you folks will go to my review of Suicide Squad held to pay at the Ferguson Theater, you will see there is a picture that I have on my desk
00:36:46
Speaker
of a little Amanda Waller action figure. And it's the full figured one, which is my favorite Amanda Waller. And I always liked her because Amanda Waller looked like the black women that I grew up with in my neighborhood. And I really got a kick out of the image of
00:37:09
Speaker
a woman like that who I've grown up seeing being in a comic book and the background that they gave her that she was in the ghetto and she educated herself and she put her kids through school and she rose up through government. That kind of took the edge off of
00:37:26
Speaker
Oh, how character which is let's be honest. She's very brutal and she's very ruthless. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, when I first saw the shield and there's the actress on that CCH pounder, my first thought was, oh, that's Amanda Waller. She ended up voicing Amanda Waller and a lot of stuff. Exactly. Exactly. Now, if I was now, if I had been casting the movie version, okay, nothing is Viola Davis. I love her to death, but that's who I would have chosen.
00:37:56
Speaker
you know, for Amanda Waller, CCH, you know, because, yeah, that's who I visualize as being Amanda Waller. But I don't get to cast these things. But they got Vanessa Davis. Oh, I'm Vanessa Davis. Viola Davis. Vanessa Williams. Oh, and this one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who does a good job? She does a pretty good job. She does a good job. It's just, it doesn't, she's not as Waller-esque as like Viola Davis or CCH founder. Yeah, yeah. And like I said, I'm not, I am not a fan of supermodel Amanda Waller.
00:38:25
Speaker
who they also had on, she was an arrow, the supermodel version of Amanda Waller. I can't remember who that actress was, but she also did a good job to her credit. But again, it just didn't feel like Amanda Waller. No, no. And of course, your favorite actress played her on Smallville, Pam Grier. Oh, yeah. Well, listen.
00:38:51
Speaker
Listen, Pam Gray don't play anything. I don't care. Tell me Pam Gray is in it. I'm there. I don't care. Which, again, here comes another digression, which I have no idea how she's been on the TV series for this long, and I didn't know about it. Oh, on Smallville? No, there's a TV. There's a sitcom called Bless This Mess, which is kind of like, you know, Green Acres. It's got this man and this wife from the city.
00:39:19
Speaker
this husband and wife, and they decide to go live this rural life. They go off the grid, and they go to this little small town. And from what I've heard, Pam Grier, she's a series regular. She plays like the mayor slash sheriff of this little town. And I'm saying, wait a minute, how did I not know about this? I mean, I just heard about this recently. Oh, yeah, I'm just looking it up now. Yeah, nobody tells me anything anymore.
00:39:48
Speaker
I'm pissed. Hey, don't blame me, man. This is the first time I'm hearing about it. Oh, no, well, listen. You've got a legitimate excuse. You're on the other side of the world. I'm talking about these people here who know me and know how I feel about it. You think one of them would have done, they'd send me an email about any other damn thing. You think they could send me an email and say, oh, Derek, you know what? Pam Grizz on TV, really? Thank you very much.
00:40:15
Speaker
Now something else that kind of seemed weird to me was some of the design choices they made for the character costumes. So you've got like the ones who are very much like they are in the comics, like Christian Slater, Bronze Tiger, Copperhead, Captain Boomerang.
00:40:30
Speaker
And then you got Harley Quinn, who for some weird reason is wearing cutoff shorts with her costume, which seemed like a really strange choice. And then you've got Blockbuster, who looks like he's starting a hip-hop video, and Silver Banshee, who looks like she's gonna be starting a punk rock video, which makes me wonder when they're gonna drop their mixtape. I actually thought...
00:40:53
Speaker
Blockbuster was Solomon Grundy at first. So did I. I was thinking the same thing. That's who I thought it was. I said, that's Blockbuster? When they call him Blockbuster, I said, what? I said, shit. I thought it was Solomon. He looked like Solomon Grundy to me. Same thing. He looked like Solomon Grundy was starting on a rap video. Yeah. Yeah, because he's got the gold chain, and he got the cut off jacket, and stuff like that. He had a silver band. She's got that whole 70s punk rock vibe though.
00:41:24
Speaker
So yeah, they're like, yeah, they got some, yeah, they took some weird. I mean, I don't know why, unless, as we were saying earlier, it was to fit in with the whole grindhouse sensibility of this. Maybe, I just think it's interesting how they had some characters are very comics accurate and then some characters are completely not. So it just like, it was a, it was a weird choice, I thought. But I love how when they go to the casino, because
00:41:52
Speaker
They're looking for the guy, what's his name, Maxim? Maxim Seal that used to be Dr. Fate. Yeah, Steel Maxim. They go to this casino looking for him and he's a male stripper and they go to the casino, you know,
00:42:07
Speaker
They're going to look for information as to where the card is. So they go in there and kill her for us as the Harley Quinn said, we're supposed to be keeping a low profile. She said, look around, who's paying attention to us? Because actually, they're really not dressed all that outrageous, really. No, no. And in fact, Steel Maxim, Greg Grundberg, did the voice of him. He was from Heroes and Alias and a bunch of other TV shows like in the early 2000s.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, I remember him. And I think that character is Steel Maxim. I think it's kind of loosely based on the Jared Stevens fate. Do you remember that period in the comics? Yeah, I do remember. I do remember. Matter of fact, that's why I said, OK, I associate this movie that it could have been made by Quentin Tarantino, because that's the type of character, it seemed to me, he would have thrown in there. They would have given him a kick. The guy with the power.
00:43:02
Speaker
of Dr. Fate, but he's a total idiot. He was a little fun addition. Yeah, because the guy was, I said, oh man, you know what, Naboo must have been having a bad day that day when he decided to make this guy Dr. Fate. Well, I mean, you're an eternal sorcerer. You're going to make mistakes every now and then. Yeah, I guess so. You can't listen.
00:43:30
Speaker
Listen, they all can't be Stephen Strange. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They also had kind of a light, because they had the two-faced cameo in here, and I like how they stayed true to the Batman animated series version of Two-Face. It was just kind of like a nice little Easter egg. Yeah, yeah, they had him, they had
00:43:55
Speaker
that other, what is it, Professor Pig? Professor Pig, yeah, from the Morrison Batman and Robin Run. Yeah, yeah. They got a couple of Batman characters, which to me was all right as long as they didn't have Batman.
00:44:07
Speaker
himself. Well one of the things too that annoys me with a lot of Suicide Squad iterations when they do them and stuff like that is they try to make them heavy on Batman villains and they like forget that there are other villains because like I think even more than like I think Marvel's got some better like world-class villains but when it comes to like the smaller villains for stuff like Suicide Squad DC has a ton of characters that really work well in that. Yeah yeah and because okay
00:44:36
Speaker
then what I okay like you have your villas like Dr. Doom and all the mother guys and you know guys that have to take over the world anything like that but when it comes down to stuff like this
00:44:50
Speaker
you want what you would might term the B or C lists, you know, supervillains. These are the guys who just put on a costume. Sometimes you get the feeling that they did it kind of out of a lark. That is just a thing to do, to put on a costume. Like, the one thing always cracks me up about Marvel, for instance. Okay, folks, here comes the first legitimate digression of this episode.
00:45:15
Speaker
The one thing that always cracked me up about Marvel was that I said, wait a minute, was Tony Stark and Reed Richards the only guys in the Marvel universe that could figure out they can make money off their inventions? Yeah. Yeah. You have all of these other guys that created this stuff and they invented all this wonderful technology that could make a million, they could make a fortune from, and the first thing they decided to do, all I'm going to put on a costume and go rob banks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like paste pot Pete.
00:45:41
Speaker
Dude, you created a super adhesive that's more powerful than crazy glue. You're going to tell me he couldn't have marketed that and made a fortune. Stiltman. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Stiltman. I mean, just application, just to wash windows alone.
00:45:57
Speaker
And yet he decides he's going to be a supervillain and get his ass kicked by Daredevil every single time. Every single time he gets his ass kicked. Because all he got to do is trip the guy up. You know, it's funny because this is, you know, to continue on and go deeper into our digression because that's what we do on the show. I was reading, because I bought all these Daredevil comics and I was reading the Bendis run of Daredevil, which, you know, I know a lot of people, they got
00:46:20
Speaker
They got poor feelings about Bendis, but I liked his Daredevil stuff. And there's this one scene when after the newspapers have outed Matt Murdock as Daredevil, and Stiltman goes into his office, and he gives him the Stiltman armor. He's like, no, I'm sick of it. He's like, I've been waiting up every night waiting for you to come and kick my ass. He's like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm not going to be Stiltman anymore.
00:46:43
Speaker
And then Foggy walks in, and then Matt, and he asks, what's that? And Matt says, oh, that's the Stiltman armor. He's like, you want to be the new Stiltman? And Foggy's like, hell no. Yeah, you know, nobody's got, despite this, I love Stiltman. But now to bring this back to the movie, DC has got a whole bunch of villains that are like that. But they did it as, OK, because they were already criminals. Right.
00:47:11
Speaker
So when they got a hold of this technology, they figured out a way, okay, well, I can use this to be a better crook. It wasn't like in Marvel where it's perfectly law abiding citizens that all of a sudden they said, okay, well, now I can be a super villain. These guys, which is why I like the villains in the DC universe slightly better because it's
00:47:32
Speaker
If a guy is a killer already and he comes across a device that can make him a better killer, then he says, okay, well, I'm not just going to become a law abiding citizen. I'm going to become a better killer and make more money doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why there is so much cannon fodder for the suicide squad because you got a whole ton of villains
00:47:53
Speaker
in the DC Universe that are like that? Well, especially when you go back to like the Silver Age when there were tons of throwaway villains, because that was back in the days when you had to have a new villain every issue. And there were lots of gimmicky supervillains that it was, it was clear by, in some of those cases, they were just throwing darts at a wall and, you know, picking random words out of a dictionary, like you had, like, Kite Man and Crazy Quilt and all those guys.
00:48:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Which a lot of them ended up in Suicide Squad, John Ostrander, and he killed them all. Punch and Julie, they were two of those characters. They ended up in Suicide Squad. And he took them from these goofy, gimmicky villains, and he made them like these violent sociopaths. Bingo. Listen, that is the only way that you can go with
00:48:39
Speaker
uh some of these characters and make them a credible threat you have to not you're not yeah because a lot of those villains like you said they were goofy and silly and how could you take them like calendar man oh yeah yeah you know the the greatest thing ever done with calendar man was um uh the long halloween where they played him as like a Hannibal Lecter type you're right like that was amazing when they did that exactly you have to reinvent him seeing another way but
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, but you've got a lot. But DC has a lot of those throwaway guys that, you know, it's perfect for a book like Suicide Squad because you say, OK, because these guys get caught all the time anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So it does make sense. It makes sense. And it also provides a reason why they end up back on the streets so quickly.
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, they come in and I think that, and I may, I may be mistaken, but I think I've read somewhere that was, that was part of Ostrander's idea was, you know, how does, you know, it makes these prisons look ineffective. So how come these, these guys are ending up back on the street so quick? Well, it's cause they did missions for Amanda Waller. You're right. You know, and they weren't like, say like, okay, like a guy like Deadshot. You know, if you have your thumb on him, well, you're never going to let him go. Cause he's too useful.
00:49:57
Speaker
But a guy like Slipknot, you know? Yeah, okay, well, you know what? You may need him for one of two missions. Okay, thank you, goodbye. If we need you again, we know where to find you. Right. And then you got someone like Captain Boomerang, who was kind of a joke character too. And then they made him into someone a lot more threatening in the Suicide Squad. Yeah, well, you know what? They gave him a darker, more psychotic age. Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of those flash rogues, like they were kind of goofy and they didn't quite,
00:50:28
Speaker
They were very much silver age goofiness, but then you get them in Suicide Squad or something like that, or you get a writer who writes them with some respect like Jeff Johns or Mark Wade, and they're able to bring a new dimension to those characters. And then when you see him on something like Captain Cold on the CW shows, he was one of my favorite villains. Oh yeah, Captain Cold, oh absolutely, yeah. And I just loved what they did with him.
00:50:56
Speaker
And in this one, so we've got, like we mentioned before, there is kind of the tie-in to Flashpoint Paradox, because we find out what happened to Zoom after he got shot by Thomas Wayne in the alternate reality. Yeah, because everybody, because like I said, I'm watching this, I'm saying, wow, reverse Flash, he's kind of, and I mean, the guy is really desperate to get the card. Yeah. You know, and to me, it was kind of like a funny,
00:51:25
Speaker
to have a Flash villain in there, and then there's a point where he's talking to Deadshot, and he pulls off his mask to reveal he's got a big honking hole in his head. Yeah. Yeah, and he says, you know, Batman shot me in the face. And he's like, not that Batman. Yeah, it's another. Yeah, he's from that alternate timeline. Which is, I love how casually he mentions that, right? Just like him being into an alternate timeline is no big deal. It's like another Tuesday for him.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Well, he reversed flash, you know what I mean? After a while, once you get to all these different timelines and stuff like that, but he explains a deadshot that he's kind of frozen in the moment between life and death. Yeah. And, and that's why he's trying to get this card before, because it's not going to last. Yeah. Yeah. You know, whatever he's done himself,
00:52:18
Speaker
that I mean the stable because he's been shot through the head. Oh, yeah. And in fact, he's got the bullet hole is just like right there. Like it's not even healed or anything like that. No, no, it's right there. So he said that, you know, well, listen, I need the card worse than anybody else. And there is even which I also appreciate it.
Spirituality on the Road: Deadshot & Bronze Tiger
00:52:39
Speaker
There's a nice little spiritual discussion between
00:52:43
Speaker
Deadshot and Bronze Tiger when they're in Winnebago, which is another touch that I love in this that because Amanda Waller, when she sends them out on this mission, she says, well, this is off the books. She said, this one is strictly off the books. She says, so I can't give you access to any of the high tech transportation that you usually have, but you could take this and it's a big dish in Winnebago. I was going to mention the same thing. Yeah, I love that.
00:53:08
Speaker
So the movie turns into a road trip where the characters in this beat beat the shit Winnebago and they have these conversations and Deadshot and Bronze Tiger end up having a really good conversation about spirituality Do they believe in heaven in hell? You know, that's what I liked about this Suicide Squad is that every member of the team gets some little spotlight some little moment of characterization Yeah, I mean, um
00:53:36
Speaker
I mean, okay, well, Harley Quinn, she gets her more, but she really doesn't need any because we already know the deal with Harley. But I thought that it was nice that in.
00:53:45
Speaker
this move in this movie, even with all these characters running around killing each other and double crossing each other, that the director and the writer had the confidence to slow down the story and put that scene in there, which they really didn't have to do. But, you know, they're sitting down there and they're not exactly having like a heart to heart because they don't like each other. But it was nice to hear them express their views on, you know, like some characters, you know,
00:54:11
Speaker
Uh, they're very comfortable with the notion of them going to hell. Yeah, yeah. Other characters aren't. Some characters pretend like they're comfortable with the notion of going to hell. Some characters reject even the notion of heaven and hell, because they don't want to think about either one. Right. Like Killer Frost, that was something I liked about her story in that, where when she betrays Zoom to get the card, and then they're like, well, I thought you didn't want, you didn't care about the card. I thought you didn't believe in this. She's like, well, I don't. But you know, there are a lot of people who do, so I'm going to auction this baby off.
00:54:41
Speaker
Right, exactly. Yeah, she doesn't want it for herself. Which is what I like. It's a way to give each character the individuality. Everybody wants this card or doesn't want it for a different specific reason.
00:54:57
Speaker
And you know, I gotta give credit where it's due because that was something, it wasn't always the same characters, but that was something that came from Gail Simone's Secret Six story. She had these characters on both sides, both the villains who were opposed to the Secret Six and also the Secret Six themselves, talking about like, you know,
00:55:15
Speaker
what they thought of the card what they thought about you know having these like theological discussions so so that credit all all due credit to gail simone who i will always give all the credit in the world to because she's an amazing writer okay and speaking of writers i would like to mention that this movie was written by the great alan burnett yeah you know he's written a ton of these yeah and i do believe and i do believe this was the last
00:55:43
Speaker
DC animated movie he wrote before he retired. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, I think that was a producer credit. I'm checking a writer. Oh, no, actually, the last one he wrote was Justice League versus the fatal five. Oh, okay. So I read it wrong then, but it's worth noting. Alan Burnett wrote it because hell it's Alan Burnett. Yeah. So if anyone doesn't know who he is, he's written,
00:56:09
Speaker
like a lot of the DC animated universe stuff back from the, back in the 90s. So he wrote several episodes of Batman the Animated Series, Superman the Animated Series, Batman Beyond, he wrote a ton of Batman Beyond. He was on, he did some static shock. He wrote the Deadshot story and Batman Gotham Knight, which for my, like I didn't really care much for Gotham Knight, but I liked the Deadshot story.
00:56:37
Speaker
Yeah, you know, eventually we're going to get to that because there's some stories I liked in there better than others. Yeah. You know, uh, but yeah, but for those of you listening to this, if you've been watching the DC animated stuff for a while, I guarantee you that pick out a favorite episode of any of these series that Perry has mentioned.
00:57:02
Speaker
And I'm willing to bet that it probably was written by Alan Burnett. Well, I mean, he wrote the best Batman movie ever made, which is Batman, Mask of the Phantasm. Oh, yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah. He also wrote two episodes of Tailspin, it looks like. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But he did like a whole bunch of other animated stuff beside the DC stuff. Yeah. I mean, this is this is a guy that, you know,
00:57:26
Speaker
He knows, okay, he knows these characters and he knows how to write this animated stuff, which I imagine, and mind you, I am no screenwriting expert. I've been trying for years to write a screenplay and I haven't written it yet because I am convinced that I have to sacrifice a virgin to crack the code to know how to write a screenplay. So I admire anybody that can write a screenplay, but I imagine that even writing an animated screenplay is not
00:57:56
Speaker
is significantly different from writing a live action screenplay. But I watch like movies like this that he's written and I can't help but feel that he didn't look at it as an animated movie, but just as a movie. No, no, he's someone who, he treats these, he treats these things as serious movies and that shows.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. You know, like you could tell that some people they write in this. Okay. Well, this is an animated movie. So I feel I got to write it in a certain, you know, I don't get that sense from the pacing, the dialogue that I don't get the feeling that he said, okay, well, this is just an animated movie. I'm doing, no, he treated like a movie period. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:43
Speaker
And, uh, and yeah, he does, he does that very well. And plus you got Sam Lou directing it and Sam Lou's also directed a, we talked about him before when we talked about Hulk versus cause he directed the Thor segment and that, but he's done a ton of these, um, these DC animated movies and he's also, you know, amazing. Again, because I feel that he doesn't look down on it because it's an animated movie. He just treats it as a movie. Period. Right.
00:59:11
Speaker
Yeah, because there's action scenes in here and the shoot-ass and stuff like that that easily rival anything I've seen in a live action movie.
00:59:30
Speaker
And another thing I liked about this is just like, all the, not only the, but also like, you know, talking, going back to what you said about the theological discussions, you also had that happening with the villains they're going up against too. Like, you know, Zoom's got his whole crew assembled, Vandal Savage has his thing going on, and all of them have clear stated reasons for why they're doing this. And I like that, that they don't just toss these characters in for no reason. Oh yeah, yeah, well,
00:59:58
Speaker
Excuse me, anybody that knows me, I tell people all the time, when they say, well, you know, did you like the characters? You know, well, I don't necessarily have to like the characters. For me, it's more important to understand that I know why they're doing what they're doing. Yeah. That's what sells me, the motivation. If you got a character that tells me and gives me
01:00:28
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? Incredible reason for why they're doing why they're doing like you hear people all the time say, well, I need a villain that needs a reason, you know, well, yeah, okay, but
01:00:42
Speaker
Villains do have different reasons for being a villain. And whether you realize it or not, there are some people just like doing dirty shit just because they like doing dirty shit. Right. You know, there's no underlying psycholot. Well, he was abused as a child. Well, plenty of people are abused as a child and grow up to be law-abiding citizens. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Upstanding citizens. Yeah, exactly. You know, some people just like doing shit just because they like doing shit. Wherever that movie, that Nicholas Cage movie, 8 Millimeter, directed by Joel Schumacher,
01:01:11
Speaker
Yeah. The guy, um, machine. And at the end, um, you know, Nicholas Cage confronts him and he pulls off his mask. And it's just like this, like, you know, chubby middle aged guy with glasses. And he looks up and he's like, what'd you expect? A monster? He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm, he's like, I'm just a regular guy. Like, yo, daddy didn't, you know, daddy didn't rape me. Mommy didn't abuse me. He's like, I'm just a regular guy who likes hurting people.
01:01:37
Speaker
Right, exactly. And know what? There are some people like that. There are some people just now go to the other end of the spectrum. There are some people that like doing good, simply because they like doing good. Right, yeah. These are the people that are walking down the street and they'll just hand a random stranger $20 and go, oh, well, you look like you needed it. And they'll keep on about their business and they'll never think nothing about it.
01:02:03
Speaker
Different people have different motivations and to me that is more important in Characterization then well, I have to like the character, you know now to me that's that's simplistic Yeah, I like the well, I have to like the character. Well, you know, I
01:02:21
Speaker
You don't like, matter of fact, I would hate to tell you on the jobs I worked on, how many people I worked with, I couldn't stand. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. But hey, I didn't live with them, I didn't have to go home with them at the end of the day. My thing is, you don't have to like a character, you have to find the character interesting. And you know what, that is all I require from a character. If I'm gonna take X amount of time out of my life to watch this movie,
01:02:51
Speaker
It's got to, you know, those characters have to at least be interesting. Yeah. You know, don't do not bore me, first of all, because if you're boring me, I don't care how much I like you. Goodbye, click. Right. Right. I mean, if, you know, there's one thing, I mean, there's a lot of people I like, like, you know, but I wouldn't want, I wouldn't pay money to see a story about that.
01:03:13
Speaker
no, because there's nothing interesting about that. They're, they're nice people. I like them just fine, but their stories aren't interesting. I wouldn't pay money to see that story. Well, um, well, um, why do we find Scarface more interesting than, uh, I don't know.
01:03:31
Speaker
Sandclaws. No, but seriously, you know. No, you're right. It's because he's got an interesting story. He's a, he's an interesting character. He's not a likable character. He's an interesting character. He's not likable character at all. But then again, and that goes back to what I always say.
01:03:51
Speaker
that in a lot of ways our society is hypocritical because we always talk about how much we hate these characters and okay then why is so much of our popular culture around these characters? Taking it back to this movie, I mean
01:04:06
Speaker
Look at Bronze Tiger. He is the most likable character on the team. He's a good guy. He's taken a vow not to kill any innocents. He's grieving over the loss of his wife. You can sympathize with him with that kind of character. He's a good guy. But he's the least interesting member of the Suicide Squad. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:31
Speaker
You compare him to Deadshot, Deadshot is interesting as hell, but he's an amoral bastard. Harley Quinn is interesting as hell, but she's a freaking psychopath. Yeah, I found myself, you know, you're watching this movie, you're worried about what's gonna happen to Deadshot. You're not worried about what's gonna happen to Bronze Tiger. No. In fact, when you think he's dead, nobody really cares. Yeah. I mean, sorry to say, because out of all the characters in the movie, like you said, he's like the nominal good guy. Right.
01:05:02
Speaker
You know, but. Yeah, he's not. He's not OK. We shouldn't say he's not interesting. He is interesting. And if he was put in another movie with like a bunch of superheroes, he would probably be a standout. Oh, yeah. But but but in this movie with these characters, he's definitely not on the same level of interest as Captain Boomerang or Deadshot or Harley Quinn. Well, he's the straight man. That's what he is.
01:05:34
Speaker
There you go. Yeah. I mean, he's totally the straight man. He's there to be a foil for the other characters. Yeah, to be their conscience for whatever that's worth, you know. And also another note on the characters. I love that Harley Quinn is such a horn dog in this movie.
01:05:57
Speaker
Well, Harley Quinn is the one character that you put in when you want to people. And what she does serve a purpose, that she gives you something to laugh at, you know, to break up tension. But I did love that when she goes in the strip club and she's like ogling all the guys. Yeah. And then she's like, and then Killer Frost is like, I had to stop her from frisking all the guys. Yeah, she's got snow all over her and she's shivering the next time we see her. Yeah.
01:06:21
Speaker
Well, I had to stop her. She was trying to frisk all the guys. Yeah, I had to pull her off. I had to give her a cold shower, which I also like how they flipped the script on that because if you were doing that story with the David Ayers Suicide Squad, that would have been like Captain Boomerang doing that to the strippers at a women's strip, at a girl's strip club. Right, there you go. Right, so they flip it and they have Harley Quinn doing it at a male strip club.
01:06:48
Speaker
But since we are talking about Harley Quinn, let me ask you something. Out of this movie, Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey, which one is your favorite version of Harley Quinn?
01:07:05
Speaker
Well, first off, I think Margot Roby is nothing against Tara Strong. I think she's great. She's done a bunch of Harley Quinn over the years, but I do like Margot Roby better. Now, as the question of...
01:07:19
Speaker
which version. This is a tough one because I think Harley Quinn was a lot more fun in Suicide Squad, but I think there were also some problems with the way that David Ayers was filming her in that movie. Whereas in Birds of Prey, I also like that she's a much more well-rounded character in Birds of Prey. So it depends on what you want out of Harley Quinn. Do you want her to be
01:07:45
Speaker
this comic relief type of character, or do you want it to be a more well-rounded character? If it's the former, then Suicide Squad version is better. If it's the latter, then the Birds of Prey version is better. Okay, see, I only ask because that is the question that I have been asked, though, by people that have asked me the same thing. They say, okay, well, did you like her better in Suicide Squad? Did you like her better in Harley Quinn? Because as a matter of fact, a lot of people actually
01:08:13
Speaker
Talk about them as if they're two different characters. Why I can see that because in in Suicide Squad She's not like a fully developed character. She's there to be a foil
01:08:26
Speaker
But whereas in Birds of Prey, she's carrying the whole movie. Right, exactly. So it's a different take on the character, and that'll give a different impression. So it depends. If you want to do a Harley Quinn story centered on Harley Quinn, you've got to make her a more well-developed character, otherwise you don't have a movie.
01:08:45
Speaker
But if you're doing something like Suicide Squad where she's just there to, to make jokes and to be kind of like the, and to be kind of the comic relief, then, then yeah, that what, what, what, how she was portrayed in Suicide Squad was great. Okay. Fair enough. How about you? Which one do you prefer? Uh, well, okay. I prefer, okay. Here's where I show my sexism.
01:09:13
Speaker
Well, I don't see, you know, while I don't see anything wrong with the way she was portrayed in Suicide Squad, because... Don't jump on me yet. Let me explain. I'm not gonna jump on you. No, because whenever I said to be, ah, you sexist pig, no, it's not that I'm a sexist pig, but, you know, if that's how the character is presented to me,
01:09:40
Speaker
Go have a problem with the filmmaker. Don't have a problem with me because I'm accepting the character and enjoying the character for how she's presented to me. Because I think it was you or somebody that was saying that, yeah, that the way that she was presented in Suicide Squad says more about David Ayers.
01:10:01
Speaker
than anything else. But then as I remind people, I said, but then you got to remember too, that Harley Quinn was directed by a woman, which made a whole world of difference. Right, exactly. Well, that's one of the things that was me and Mark Buskin and our Facebook group.
01:10:19
Speaker
And what Mark said, because I get him credit because he said a lot of this, was that if you compare the way she's filmed, the way the camera photographs her in Birds of Prey, the way compared to the way it's done in Suicide Squad, it's not only different costuming, but it's just like there's a very different gaze that the camera has on her. Right, because they have that scene where she has the elevator fight. Right.
01:10:47
Speaker
And then she comes out of the elevator and she's walking away and all the guys are staring at her butt as she's walking away. You don't see any of that in Harley Quinn. No, no, no. One thing that jumped out at me and taken it back to Justice League was, if you compare Justice League, because I saw Justice League after I saw Wonder Woman,
01:11:07
Speaker
And I noticed there was a very big difference in how the camera filmed Gal Gadot in Justice League compared to how she was filmed in Wonder Woman. Because in Wonder Woman, it emphasizes her strength.
01:11:23
Speaker
And it's the same costume both times, right? And it's the same actress and she looks gorgeous and sexy in both of them. But in Justice League, it's more about, look how sexy she is. And Wonder Woman, it's more about, look how badass she is. Look how strong and powerful she is. Yeah, exactly. I get exactly what you're saying. And like I said earlier,
01:11:49
Speaker
That's why I believe that it's almost valid when people say that it's like Harley Quinn is two different characters in Suicide Squad.
01:11:57
Speaker
as opposed to Harley Quinn, simply because what was directed by a man and what was directed as a woman. And folks, if anybody ever tells you that there's no difference between a movie directed by a man or woman, you tell them they're full of shit. No, I mean, I did not realize how big of a difference it was until I watched Wonder Woman and Justice League back to back. Yeah. You watch those two movies back to back, you can tell there's a big difference. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:25
Speaker
So yeah, but you know, that's nothing against like, that has more to do with the directing side, the cinematography side, but as far as the characterization side, like even still, like the Suicide Squad version, she's a fun character. But she's basically just there just to be a comic relief. She's not there to carry the story in the same way that Deadshot is or Rick Flag is. And oddly enough, you know, while, okay, this is why I like,
01:12:53
Speaker
This is why I like Harley Quinn for probably the same reason that I like the original Nick Fury, you know, the white guy. Okay. Got nothing against Sam Jackson, mind you. I love his Nick Fury, but I liked the original Nick Fury before they brought in all that nonsense with the infinity formula and stuff like that. I liked him because
01:13:16
Speaker
In a world of super soldiers and thunder gods and guys with iron armor and everything like that, and Atlanteans and humans and all these things, Nick Fury held his own simply by being the toughest son of a bitch on the planet. No superpowers. He was just simply tougher than anybody else.
01:13:38
Speaker
And even guys like throwing Captain America gave him his, you know, they gave him mad props. They gave him respect because of who he was, because he was Nick Fury. He just didn't fuck with Nick Fury. And it was just that simple.
01:13:49
Speaker
Harley Quinn, I kind of like in the same way because she has no superpowers. She's just batshit insane. But yet she's able to hold her own in this crazy world that she's in with people with superpowers and skills that, you know, that she don't have. Oh, she's got a baseball bat.
Harley Quinn's Quirky Leadership
01:14:06
Speaker
But she, but she holds her own and she survives and she, and you know, she improvises and
01:14:12
Speaker
you know she manages to stay in the mix. You know one of my other favorite Harley Quinn moments in this movie is when Deadshot puts her in charge and like even Harley looks like oh my god that's a bad idea. No but yes oh no you don't want to do that.
01:14:30
Speaker
But it only happened briefly. He's like, you're in charge. She's like, really? And a moment later, she's like, OK, let's order pizza. Oh, my god. You know what? Harley has a moment of clarity there, where she's saying it. She said, no, you don't want to do this. Well, also, when she comes back to Deadshot at the Edge, she's like, oh, yeah. So Amanda Waller found out that you put me in charge, and she's not too happy about that. Oh, my god. Yeah.
01:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, you can always count on Harley for a good laugh in these movies. The only thing that I wonder though, and I think I even mentioned this in the Facebook group, that I'm curious.
Harley Quinn: From Psychologist to Fighter?
01:15:10
Speaker
And okay, I'm watching the scene in Harley Quinn where, you know, she's in the hallway and she's in the police station and she's fighting the cops and everything like that. And then she has the other fight scene after that, you know, when she finds the baseball bat and then she's really happy. I said, well,
01:15:27
Speaker
How did she learn how to fight so good? She was a psychologist. Yeah. Yeah. That's something that I had never thought about that until you mentioned that in the group. And I'm like, well, okay. Yeah. That's actually a good point because she was like, no, the Joker can't fight. No, the Joker's a crappy fighter.
01:15:44
Speaker
Like he's all about death traps and that kind of thing. But when it comes to, once Batman gets into a face-to-face confrontation with the Joker, like even before he throws a punch, you know it's over because he's gonna beat the shit out of Joker with like one punch. Oh yeah, yeah. But I have no idea how, I don't think it's ever been addressed. Yeah, because if we go just by the fight scene in
01:16:13
Speaker
You know, the whole movie of Suicide Squad and Harley Quinn, she's one hell of a fighter. Oh yeah. You put a baseball bat in that chick's hands and that's it. She's going to do some work. It's like the hammer of Thor. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm, so I'm just, which I should add that years ago when I was a
01:16:37
Speaker
lad, and I was studying karate, and there was a guy I knew, and we were talking about weapons, and I was telling him, well, what's the best weapon? You know, I'm a kid. What's the best weapon? What's the best? And the guy said, baseball bat. I said, what? You know, I'm expecting him to say, samurai sword, or, you know, or, you know, a bowler, or a nunchuck, or whatever. He said, yeah, baseball bat. And I said, what? He said, listen, one day, he said, when you have time, you come around to see me. He said, I'll show you what to do with it. I never went around.
01:17:06
Speaker
to see the guy. But you know what? After seeing with Harley Quinn, I wish I had. You were to learn some Harley Quinn or some bear juice stuff there. You know what? I'm thinking that maybe there's some secret martial art involving a baseball bat I've never heard of. And maybe that's what she learned. Bat-fu. Yeah, you know, she went to something like, I don't know, a baseball bat, Zen master or something like that.
Zoom's Strange Behavior
01:17:32
Speaker
Babe Ruth is still alive. He's teaching the art of bat-fu.
01:17:36
Speaker
Hey, see, now you just gave me an idea for a story. Okay. But you know what? One of the things that was jumping out to me is like, well, that's kind of weird watching this movie is when, when Zoom is fighting off Killer Frost, right? He's got the card.
01:17:58
Speaker
And he's dodging her icicles. And I'm like, don't you want to die while you've got the card? This is your chance. What are you doing? So that part kind of seemed a little strange to me. Reflex. Yeah, I guess so. It did kind of just seem strange to me. And also when he's facing Bronze Tiger, and Bronze Tiger, he sees Bronze Tiger slide the card into his bandages.
01:18:22
Speaker
But instead of doing what he did with Boomerang, where he went and he searched him at super speed, he decides to try and fight it out with Bronze Tiger first. So that was another thing that I thought was a little weird story choice that didn't quite gel with what Zoom was trying to do. Well, to me, see, that's always been the problem with
01:18:42
Speaker
A guy like the Flash. Yeah. See, to me, Quicksilver. Quicksilver, as far as I know, he could run fast, but his top speed was only like 50, 60 miles an hour. No, not that slow. He can run at sonic speed. Oh, OK. Yeah, he can go super sonic.
Super Speed Logic Critique
01:19:00
Speaker
But he can't go above Mach 3 or something like that. OK, well, that's still too fast. But the point I'm trying to make is that when you have a guy like the Flash who can literally move so fast,
01:19:13
Speaker
that he can be around the world a dozen times before you take a breath. Yeah. Yeah. Then when he just like dukes it out hand to hand, somebody with somebody, you know, then you said, well, why is he doing that? Yeah. Yeah. You know, when he could run around the world, get behind the guy and knock him out before he's even know he's gone.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, that is one of the weaknesses with speedster characters. And that's something that does pop up a lot in some of the TV shows when you're watching, like, well, why don't you just do this when you've got that power? Yeah, yeah. Or even since you can go back in time, well, OK.
01:19:52
Speaker
The guy kicks your ass, okay, the super villain kicked your ass, but you know his real identity now. So you go back in time and you get him before he even, you know, and you put the handcuffs on him. Well, what'd I do? Well, it's not what you did, it's what you're gonna do, come on. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that is one of the weaknesses with the super speed. So it is, you do have to take a little bit of, you know, suspension of disbelief there, but it did just kind of jump out at me.
01:20:20
Speaker
when I was watching the movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what? That's one of the things that you kind of think about, which is why we got stuff like, what was it, back in the 80s when we got the handbook of the Marvel Universe and stuff like that, that tried to explain how these powers worked. Right, right.
01:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, and we got all you know that whole thing where okay Well, we're gonna get into it and we're gonna explain then they finally just went all mystical and said well There's a speed force and and you could do this with it Because they couldn't explain flash of power
Action Choreography: Bond-like Praise
01:20:54
Speaker
any other way. Yeah. Yeah And something else we haven't talked a lot about the action but the action in this movie is really well done like some of the action scenes are just you know breathtaking a watch and
01:21:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, right from the, like we said, the mini mission, you know, that's at the front. Because we don't know where they're going in Black Manta sub. And Black Manta, who was conspicuously absent for the rest of the movie. Right. I'm guessing, like, they just used him for transportation or something like that. Right. That's what I'm trying to figure. Was he actually a member of the squad, or did Vertigo just go to him and hire him and say, OK, well, we need you to take us someplace? Yeah, I think he was just hired for that job or something as like transportation.
01:21:32
Speaker
Right, because I can't see Amanda Waller turning him loose. Which, you know, also comes from, that comes from the, uh, the Gail Simone thing, because there was, uh, in the lead up to, uh, one of the missions, um, they had, uh, they were, they were flying around in one of Black Manta's subs and they say, well, Black Manta loaned this to us. He rented it out to us. Oh, okay. Yeah. But that opening scene that's on that train, like you said, you know, they slide down on the ropes to the train and
01:22:00
Speaker
You know, they take it over and they don't, it's a well crafted scene that like you said, you would find in any James Bond movie, you know, I can, it's just, it's just as good as anything you would see in any live action movie. And then you got the gunfight. That's the side of, you know, the train and then Punch and Julia using their powers. And yeah, it was very well done. Very well choreographed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all the fight scenes in this are like that. Even.
01:22:29
Speaker
Even though there's a lot of characters in one of them, especially in the scene in The Penthouse where Vandal Savage busts in, and there's a lot of characters.
Vandal Savage's Heart-Card Plan
01:22:39
Speaker
But there's no time where I was confused as to what was going on and who was doing what to whom. Right. And I also like how Vandal Savage tried to
01:22:52
Speaker
tried to prove himself against them, where he rigs the card to his heart. So like, if you remove the card, he dies and the card's still with him. Yeah. Yeah. I said, you know what? That's going to backfire on him. Well, yeah, because he wasn't counting on Zoom being around. Yeah. I said, you thought that was a good idea? No, that's going to backfire on you. But I also do like how they establish right from the beginning that something's off with Zoom.
01:23:22
Speaker
right, when they're shooting at him as they're leaving in the Winnebago. And Deadshot's like, no, he's moving too slow, something's not right here. Right, exactly, exactly. See, that's what I'm saying about when you have like those super speed type of characters, you gotta do something like to slow them down. Yeah. Cause otherwise, you know, guy that can move at the speed of light,
01:23:47
Speaker
You know, and yeah, that was a good yeah, that was a good scene where he said yeah, he said nah, it's something wrong He said he should have caught us by now. Yeah. Yeah and and Even the animation is very because you can see in the animation zoom is working. Oh, yeah Yeah, you know this cat is like huffing and puffing Well the scene when he he tries to put the the tracking device on savages ship, right? That's another scene where they they really drive home with the fact that something's not right with them Yeah
01:24:16
Speaker
Now, see, the first time I saw it, I figured that, well, you know, the super speed is burning him up. That's what I thought. I said, OK, well, because I hadn't seen the first time I had seen this, I hadn't seen the fact. Matter of fact, I went back and watched Flash the Flash play Paradox because of this movie, because I hadn't seen it. So I didn't make that association with that movie.
01:24:39
Speaker
And then, of course, when he explained it at the end, you know, go on and say, OK, well, now I've got to go see this damn movie. The same movie. But yeah, that's what I thought it was. I said, well, it must be something wrong with his super speed. And it's burning him up. Yeah, and I had seen the Flashpoint Paradox, you know, before I saw Hell to Pay. But I had completely forgotten about the scene where the Thomas Wayne Batman shoots him.
Deadshot's Redemption Arc
01:25:04
Speaker
So I didn't think anything of it. Like, I don't even realize that these were in the same universe.
01:25:09
Speaker
Right. Yeah, and then it wasn't until he says what happens that I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah that I remember that now And it should be pointed out that the flashpoint paradox is pretty damn violent, too Yeah, like this. Yeah, you know that's got a pretty high body count that one as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah All right, so do we have anything else to talk about with hell to pay I
01:25:32
Speaker
Uh, no, as Oh wait, there's, there is one more thing I did. I just thought of now, sorry to cut you off, but no, please cut me off. The end when he, uh, after he saves bronze tiger's life or his soul, and then he gives, and the card is still there and he gives it to Amanda Waller. And she's like, it feels cold. And he's like, it's a cold world. I love the way that it ended like that. That, you know what? That ending said so much about did shots character, which
01:26:04
Speaker
You know what? I love movies where you can see a character is making a stab at redemption, but he doesn't make a big deal out of it. Right, yeah. Which he didn't. He did the right thing by giving the card to Bronze Tiger. And he went, and he said, well, Amanda Waller is never going to know that the card don't be, because the card can only be used one time, not one time for each person, just once. Yeah, exactly.
01:26:33
Speaker
So when he gives it to her, you know, she's not going to know and she's stuck with a cart, which means Amanda Waller is going to keep on doing dirty shit thinking that she's got a way out. Well, also that kind of opens the door because you know how resourceful Amanda Waller is. So like even Deadshot has to think, well, all right, I'm painting a target on my head.
01:26:55
Speaker
Yeah, but how she's gonna know the car doesn't work until, you know, she dies. I don't know, but you know what? She's Amanda Waller and she finds shit out. So I'd be scared to pull a trick like that out of Amanda Waller is all I'm saying.
Waller's Suspicion of the Card
01:27:10
Speaker
Because I don't remember who, but it was somebody who said, yeah, well, how do you know that the card even works? And the answer is, well, I guess you'll find that out when you die. You'll know if it works or not. So we know that it worked for Bronze Tiger. OK, so we know that the card works. So he gives it to Amanda Wall.
01:27:32
Speaker
I think that you hit on it when you said, oh, it feels cold. So, so apparently she must have got some kind of description of the card. Right. So she knows that she knows that something's not right. Yeah, she was expecting it to feel a certain way. Yeah. And so like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put it past, especially if you're talking like the John Osterder, Amanda Waller, like first thing she's going to do as soon as she gets back to her base is she's going to call up someone like John Constantine to come and examine that card.
01:28:00
Speaker
Well, that would be my guess. That's who I would call. Yeah, John Constantine would say, well, you know, take a look at this and, you know, tell me what you think. Yeah. And, you know, and once she finds out that it's, it's been used up, like, I would not want to be deadshot is all I'm saying. Well, you know what? Okay. She's not going to kill deadshot because he's too useful. She's going to say something. Well, you know what? That bomb's going to stay in your neck for the rest of your life. She said,
01:28:27
Speaker
I own your ass from now on. You know, cause really the only thing he cares about is his daughter. You know, that's the only thing in his life he really cares about. As long as his daughter is taken care of, I think that Deadshot really, you know, he really doesn't give a shit what happens to him as long as his daughter is taken care of. But I think that if Amanda Waller following your logic and it's, and it's good logic. Now I'm not taking that away from his good logic. If she finds it out, it would be too petty of her
01:28:56
Speaker
to kill a resource like Deadshot where she'd keep malign the torture the shit out of her. Well, that's right. That's what I mean. Like Deadshot, because Deadshot doesn't care about dying. Nah. Like one of his, one of the, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, that was one of his character quirks in the comics, wasn't it? Like he had a death wish. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He had a death. Yeah. That was one of the little psychological quirks. Yeah. That John Ostrander gave him like another one where, uh,
01:29:22
Speaker
I think because he was going to see a psychologist, and the psychologist said, ask him, well, why is it you've had Batman in your sights a hundred times over these years, but you never shot him? And they were trying to figure out the reason why.
01:29:37
Speaker
It was some kind of psychological quirk right here. In other words, he can't pull the trigger on Batman for some reason. Some psychological reason, he can never pull the trigger on Batman. Because they said, it's kind of funny, you're the man that never misses. Well, why do you keep missing Batman all the time? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. So yeah, that and the death wish. I do remember the whole thing about the death wish. Yeah, yeah. I knew there was something about that. So yeah, if I was deadshot, I wouldn't be worried about Waller killing me. I'd be worried about her making my life a living hell.
01:30:08
Speaker
Yeah, but what else is he going to do? He's got no other kind of life. The only thing he knows how to do is kill people. Now, since we talk about characterizations, I wanted to get to this as well. I'm glad you brought me back to it. Did you like the Christian Slater version of Deadshot or Will Smith?
01:30:30
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question. I do love the Will Smith version. I was really surprised by how much I liked the Will Smith version because it's so against type for him, for him to play a character like that. But the Christian Slater version, I think, gets a slight edge because he is much more of an amoral bastard. And I think there's something more interesting in his redemptive arc.
01:30:57
Speaker
when you compare it to the Will Smith version? I think that, because people always ask me this, oh, what did you think about Will Smith? I think I liked the, okay. I liked the Deadshot character in Suicide Squad, mainly because it was Will Smith playing against Tight. Yeah. Cause you know, usually Will Smith is always into the heroic characters and stuff like that, you know? Right. I mean, you turned down Jangle and Shane because of his image.
01:31:26
Speaker
Right. Exactly. He's right. He didn't want to play that type of character. So for him to play that type of character, I thought was a bold move for him. And I think that as he gets older, he may want to explore going further in that direction. Yeah. And I hope he does because I thought he did a good job in Suicide Squad playing against type like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, uh,
01:31:50
Speaker
He's getting older, you know, he's getting older. And I mean, personally, this is just my opinion, folks. I think it's time for him to start exploring other types of characters to play. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, and that character was a step in the right direction. Christian Slater. Yeah, I wouldn't mind if they made a Deadshot movie.
01:32:15
Speaker
and brought him back to do the voice. No, definitely not. I thought he did a great job. I would love to see him do the character again. And apparently from what I've heard, he loved doing the character as well. So it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, because I can say he does interesting things with his voice where he's saying one thing, but he's obviously meaning another. Yeah.
01:32:40
Speaker
And I'm not sure if this is, but remember when he was going to the, he was looking for his daughter in that, that crack house or whatever. And he's, one of the guys attacks him. And it sounded like Christian, the guy's voice sounded like Christian Slater's Jack Nicholson impersonation. Did you catch that?
01:33:02
Speaker
I did not catch that, but you know what? I'm going to go back and watch it again. That's good though. I wonder if Christian Slater did that voice for that other guy. He just did his Jack Nicholson impersonation. Remember when he first started out?
01:33:19
Speaker
That's who he was doing? Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you remember The Critic, the John Lovitz cartoon? Oh, yeah. I remember there was a few More Good Men starring Jack Nicholson and Christian Slater. And he's like, I want the truth. He's like, you can't handle it. He's like, all right, you want the truth? Fine. You look like me. You sound like me. You don't have a freaking original bone in your body. And then Christian Slater's like, that's a freaking lie.
01:33:46
Speaker
Oh, cause I mean, when he first started out, he had, he had the eyebrows down. He had the body language down and everything. And I said, oh my God. They have to get him and Jack Nicholson in a movie together where they can play father and son. Yeah. There was a, he was in, there was an independent film. It was called Who is Cletus Tout? I'm not sure if you ever saw that or heard of that. No. All right. So it was with Christian Slater, Portia de Rossi and Tim Allen and Richard Dreyfus.
01:34:16
Speaker
And Tim Allen plays a hitman who's a movie buff. And he's got Christian Slater tied to a chair. And he's asking Christian Slater to tell him the story and everything. And Christian Slater's telling him the events of the movie. And Tim Allen is imagining how he turned into a movie. And he's saying, we've got to figure out who we cast to play you. He's like, anyone ever tell you you look like a young Jack Nicholson?
01:34:46
Speaker
Uh, what's the name of this movie? This is uh, it's called Who is Cletus Tout? Who is Cletus Tout? Okay, I gotta look this up. It's not that great, but it's funny just for the Tim Allen bits.
01:34:57
Speaker
Well, you know what? I like Christian Slater. I've always liked Christian Slater, even in his Jack Nicholson phase. And once he grew out of that phase, and I think he was in that phase, because that's what everybody was telling him. Yeah, yeah. So I guess he figured, well, if everybody's telling me I look and sound like Jack Nicholson, I might as well look and act like him. But once he grew out of that and found his own vibe and his own voice and everything like that, yeah.
01:35:25
Speaker
He turned into one hell of an actor. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. All right, so anything else to talk about in this? Not that I can think of other than I highly recommend it. It is currently, you can find it on Amazon Prime, what is this, like three bucks to rent
01:35:46
Speaker
Although if you're subscribed to DC Universe, I would imagine that you could probably
DC Universe Subscription Dilemma
01:35:50
Speaker
find it on there. Oh yeah, I imagine. First time I saw this, I'm pretty sure I saw it on Hulu, but it's not on there anymore. I had to rent it off iTunes. Oh, okay. Yeah, I rented it off Amazon Prime, even though I haven't. I'm trying to figure out, you know what?
01:36:07
Speaker
You know, since they're doing all of these different things and all these different streaming services and stuff like that, I have not yet subscribed to DC Universe. And I'm trying to figure out, do I want to subscribe to that? Or do I want to wait and see? Because I keep hearing the rumors that it's going to merge with HBO Max. And so, I mean, I don't know.
01:36:31
Speaker
I mean, I'd say if there's, if there's one thing you could do is you could wait until they get a bunch more shows. And then when you've got like a free week, you subscribe to the free trial and just like watch everything you want to watch and then decide later if you want to keep doing it. And then when HBO Max comes along, if they've got the same stuff, you can just cancel it. Well, well, you know what? I wouldn't mind. Cause I think it's all something like, well, like seven bucks a month anyway. I think so. So I mean, it's not like it's going to break the bank. I mean, I think it'd be worth it just to have those, just to have access to all the animated stuff.
01:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, and you know what? I deeply want to finish watching because I watched half of the season one of Doom Patrol. For some reason, I never finished watching it. So I want to finish watching that before the second season starts. But from what I'm understanding, the second season,
01:37:20
Speaker
Oh, due patrol is going to be on HBO max, but I haven't heard of the first season is going to be on there. But I'm saying, you know, I don't think you got to this yet because I think it's probably in the later half. But did you get to Admiral Whiskers yet? No. Oh, you're in for a treat. I see what I mean.
01:37:39
Speaker
So like I said, I think it's only something like seven bucks. At this point, it's not gonna kill me. So maybe I just go ahead. And if it does decide to demerge later, I'll just go beat up somebody and get my money back. That's all. I'm thinking about, because the reason I haven't jumped into it yet is because it's not available in Japan. So I got to use my proxy service to use it, but they haven't added support for DC Universe again. So I got to email them and ask them,
01:38:05
Speaker
Cause they say like, you know, email us if you want access to something and we'll pass it on to engineers, see if we can make it happen. So I think I'm going to send them an email and, you know, see what they say. I gotcha.
01:38:17
Speaker
All right, so my pick is next up, and I thought we'd go back Marvel, and especially because I'm reading the comics now, I thought we'd go look at the Ben Affleck Daredevil film, the director's cut, that is.
Next Review: Daredevil Director's Cut
01:38:33
Speaker
One of your favorites. Well, not one of my favorites, but something I think it's underrated. It's not as bad as people think it is.
01:38:41
Speaker
Listen, I remember how mean you was going back and forth when the director's cut came out. Because you were the champion of that movie, the director's cut. Because you told anybody to listen. No, no, you got to see the director's cut. You got to see the director's cut. And I was saying, eh, it can't be that good. Did you see it? Did you see it? I said, whoa, calm down, dude. I'm going to see it.
01:39:11
Speaker
OK, yeah. Listen, OK. OK, this is the director's cut. Yeah, the director's cut. All right. OK. Because I kept asking you, and now I get the chance to make you watch it. Yes, you do. I know you're loving it. But listen, if you got the opportunity, why not take it? Exactly, yeah. OK, looking forward to it.
01:39:35
Speaker
Okay, all right, so join us next week. We're gonna talk about the director's cut of Daredevil. Until then, head over to Superhero Cinephiles on Facebook. Join the group. Join in discussion. Also, you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Follow us on both of those and head on over to the website. Click on any of the links there. Do some shopping on Amazon and we get a little bit of kickback.
01:40:02
Speaker
Absolutely. All right. We love kickbacks. Yes, we do. We love kickbacks. All right, that does it for us. Thanks so much for listening, and we will talk to you next time. Good night, and God bless. Wash your hands. Stay home. Stay safe.
01:40:21
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superheroescinephiles at gmail.com, or you can also visit us on the web at superheroescinephiles.com.
01:40:41
Speaker
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