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Trail Running Series: Running in Extremes
9.3k Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Alyssa sits down with coach Martin Zhor to discuss running in extreme conditions like altitude, heat and cold. They kick off with recommendations for acclimatization before racing, and different strategies to utilize depending on time and finances. They break down the higher caloric and hydration needs at altitude as well as the changes the body goes through at altitude. They then tackle running and racing in heat and heat training strategies that can help the body adapt more smoothly to the stress. They also touch on nutrition and hydration factors in heat as well as cold. Finally they wrap up with proper preparation and gear management for cold weather running to stay safe. For those reaching for higher and more complex races, this is the podcast for you.
Write to us at [email protected] or visit uphillathlete.com for more information.
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Transcript
Introduction to Uphill Athlete Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome to the uphill athlete podcast. Our mission is to elevate and inspire all mountain athletes through education and celebration. My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today.
Interview with Coach Martin Zor
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm psyched to welcome back one of our favorite coaches, Martin Zor, to discuss running in extremes. So Martin, you've been up to some interesting endeavors, particularly in some extreme temperatures and climates. So can you tell us a little bit of what you've been up to? Hey, Alisa. Hi, everybody. It's good to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Running in Extreme Climates
00:00:49
Speaker
And yes, I just recently got back from Pakistan, so that was a great experience with altitude and cold and some heat as well. And I'm living in the Alps in the mountains, so it's kind of an everyday life for me. And in the past years, I spent a lot of time at altitude on a daily basis. So I'm happy to share my experiences and also
00:01:17
Speaker
dig into the physiology behind it.
Research on Altitude Physiology
00:01:19
Speaker
So let's do it. Awesome. Yeah, so Martin has a lot of experience at altitude. He is also currently studying for a master's in. Yes, the specifics of altitude. Actually, what is that exactly?
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, so my academic background is I have a bachelor degree in sports science. And now currently I'm studying in a master program in the University of Ostersund in Sweden. And it's actually a master by research. So there's less theory, let's say, but mostly I'm doing a research project.
00:01:58
Speaker
And I'll be writing a thesis based on the data that I'm getting. And it's really specialized in the altitude physiology. So I was really super excited about this topic for a long time, because I really like mountains. And so when I was studying the Bachelor in the UK, I was actually living in Chamonix while I was doing that. But I wrote my final thesis on faster acclimatization. So like really cool topic about
00:02:27
Speaker
Do we acclimatize faster when we go back to altitude? Is there any such thing in the body? So when you actually start digging into it and try to find studies explaining that, there's actually not much about it because we just don't know or don't know much about it. And so now currently with the master, we are looking again into this topic and it looks promising. So I started actually
00:02:54
Speaker
this last winter and I was planning to go to the high altitude expeditions in Ecuador and Pakistan later on in spring. So we actually quickly created this plan and tested myself. I was actually being tested and so we basically did a pilot study on myself seeing if there is any result.
00:03:18
Speaker
And now it seems really promising. And we're actually right now in the process of getting more people so that I can actually do a study with more subjects. It's necessary. Otherwise, when you do a research with just one person, one subject, the data, you cannot draw any conclusions from it. So now it's really interesting.
00:03:44
Speaker
relates to everything I'm doing, you know, with Happy Latte, with my clients, and most of them, they are going to high altitude and learning a lot. That's excellent. Yeah, I'll be so curious to see.
00:03:56
Speaker
what your findings are from that.
Impact of Altitude on Trail Racing
00:04:00
Speaker
With this, though, with the topic of trail running, we were actually talking before this about what category of altitude that most trail racing falls under. So I would say on the high side, you're looking at 3,000 to 3,500 meters, which is, gosh, 13,000 to 14,000 feet, which
00:04:25
Speaker
is considered kind of mid-range altitude in your studies, correct?
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, so there's different categories, I would say. It relates to, well, where people live most of the time. I think most populations live sub 3000, 3005, even in high altitude countries like in South America, in the Tibetan Plateau, in Eastern Africa. So I think the maximum is really about 3005.
00:04:56
Speaker
Then I would that I would call maybe medium altitude then high altitude until 5,000 and I don't think there is any Long-term settlements about that altitude that's really hard on the body and it's pretty much impossible to live long-term So anything about 5,000 is considered extreme altitude But well many people go there anyway just for
00:05:23
Speaker
you know, for mountaineering or for tracking or just people that go there, I guess, for different reasons, but they don't really spend that much time up there because it's really hard. Obviously, on the body, we are not supposed to really be there for too long. Definitely.
00:05:43
Speaker
So if we're looking at say that kind of 2500 to 3000 meter range for trail running, because I think that's where we kind of fall when we think of altitude in trail running. If you are taking an athlete who's been at sea level or relatively close to sea level, how are you helping them to prepare for a race that is going up?
Preparation for High-Altitude Races
00:06:10
Speaker
over say 2000 meters. What are your best strategies for that athlete? And maybe a couple different if you're looking at someone who has a lot of time and a lot of resources and someone who's much more limited in time and resources.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think what is important to say at the beginning is that acclimatization, so the way we adapt to altitude, whether it's the more moderate altitude or the high extreme altitude, is very individual. And again, from the
00:06:41
Speaker
Research we don't really we still don't know why that is we know some things but we don't have simple tests as we do in normal performance we can do VOMAC testing we can do
00:06:56
Speaker
physiological testing to be able to predict quite well. For example, in running, marathon running, we can draw some really good conclusions if the person is fit and is able to run a marathon or whatever endurance race there is. But as it comes to altitude, there's no such thing, at least not yet. And so it's really important for me to
00:07:19
Speaker
Do proper analysis to talk to the client first. Do you have an experience from before? Have you been to altitude before? How did you react? How did you perform? If you had problems, what were the symptoms like? Where do you live? Do you live at sea level? All these questions are obviously very relevant too.
00:07:40
Speaker
to then when I prescribed a training plan. I would say then, for most people, you start to experience something about, let's say, maybe 2000 meters, but some people already react to even maybe 1800 meters.
00:07:58
Speaker
At that level, I think the body starts to sense the hypoxia. I don't think there's much happening, at least not much relevant. That is below 1500 meters. So if you actually are going to altitude for training purpose to enhance your performance. So if you go below that level, I don't think that is actually not worth it. It's not worth your time because not much will be happening physiologically.
00:08:24
Speaker
So we ask them, if you are planning for a race that is happening, above 2000 meters, even 3000 meters, then the factor, the altitude factor will be quite big and important. So it's important to prepare for it. And then, um,
00:08:39
Speaker
It really is then hard to say individually, okay, will this person get sick or will it be okay? The most important is to come to the start line really fit. Obviously, that's the best we can do with the client. But then the next step for me is to actually look at the race.
00:09:00
Speaker
So you got a race that will happen actually at 2000 meters and will actually not leave that level. It will not drop below the 2000 meters. So that's actually a specific situation where the altitude will be a very important factor. So we need to really...
00:09:16
Speaker
invest into acclimatization that's that's really the best uh best shot that's the best strategy but there are some races when where you run over some mountain passes maybe one mountain and you drop down to the to the valley right so the actual time spent at that moderate altitude above 2000 meters will actually be not be that long so for me then it's it's good to know that but maybe uh it will not be that worth to to spend the time acclimatizing because yes the person might
00:09:45
Speaker
Be a bit uncomfortable, the client will have to slow down a bit and maybe there will be some additional fatigue. But most of the training spent should be just really getting fit for the race and that's the most important part. We don't need to focus so much on altitude and acclimatization.
00:10:04
Speaker
And obviously when it's about two thousand five three thousand meters i mean we can expect the release starting to see some symptoms even of i'll act you a huge mountain sickness again that's very individual super hard to predict before so yeah that there's done.
00:10:21
Speaker
you know, all these questions that I first ask. And then yes, if the altitude is a very important factor, then we can develop strategies. So I mean, that's a problem next question, but we can dig into
Acclimatization Process
00:10:35
Speaker
that. Oh, go for it. Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
there was there was different ways. So it's really important than how the acclimatization works. It takes a while, there are different adaptations in the body, and they all take a bit different time. So first, when you when you get to altitude, the body senses the the lack of oxygen in the system, let's say, detects hypoxia, so called. And so first, adaptations are that you, your breathing goes up the the
00:11:05
Speaker
you start to breathe deeper and also the rate of breathing goes higher. And also the heart rate goes up. You start to feel like your heart is pumping in your chest and that's totally normal. Your body is trying to compensate by increased breathing and the heart rate to increase the cardiac output. It's not very comfortable, obviously, but it's really the first kind of adaptation.
00:11:36
Speaker
You can imagine that it's kind of taxing on the body, so you don't really feel that great. Also, when you try to sleep, it will affect the quality of your sleep. You might really struggle with sleeping, so these are really normal symptoms of acclimatization. So this is really the first reaction, and it happens within minutes and maximum hours when you actually go to altitude.
00:11:57
Speaker
But then the next, what happens next is that the body has this cascade of adaptations and it starts with a pretty fast, but still you want to think about probably minimum six days, six days when we talk about the moderate altitude at least.
00:12:12
Speaker
so if you're preparing for a race that will happen above 2000 meters between 2000 3000 meters so that first week is really really hard on the body because yes the body needs to adapt and there's a lot of energy invested into it so you can imagine that the performance will go down.
00:12:28
Speaker
So then when it comes to me as a coach and the client, I need to ask the client, do you have time to acclimatize before that race? It's a very simple question. You know, and if the race happens on the other side of, you know, on the, on another continent, like UTMB for Americans, right? So.
00:12:43
Speaker
It's not super easy. It's very costly, it's very expensive because you need to be there in the mountains one week before the race and it can be really expensive to take that kind of holiday. Also, you're away from your family.
00:12:59
Speaker
the euro from your job so all of a sudden it's not like race that lasts one day it's you know we have to even invest one more extra week so that's not easy for most people so then are there any other strategies how can we go about that so
00:13:16
Speaker
Yes, many different options. But I guess it comes to the beginning when I talked about how big of a factor the altitude actually is, the acclimatization. Is it actually worth to spend so much time and energy on acclimatization?
00:13:31
Speaker
How will it affect the training? So the first of all, I need the client to be fit. That's the first and foremost. And then obviously the acclimatization is great if the person is acclimatized, but we also then need to know that being at altitude, you need to reduce your
00:13:49
Speaker
I would say training stress because the altitude is an additional stress so that would be too much you need to reduce something so you need to make sure that this makes sense in the overall long term plan that before you start acclimatizing you are already really well trained, you are really well prepared for the other attributes of the race, the uphill, downhill, the distance and everything because when you start acclimatizing you need to reduce the
00:14:19
Speaker
the training load. And so all these things are really important in the overall picture. So what is actually, I think what is important to say is if you have a week or less, it's actually maybe sometimes better to just arrive the day
Training for High-Altitude Races
00:14:37
Speaker
of the race. That's been observed. Obviously, if there is no time to acclimatize or you have less than one week, I think it's really better to just
00:14:46
Speaker
really keep the fitness do the good taper and come the day before the race i think the research says it's it's really maximum fourteen hours because that it really is done the body starts to go three acclimatization process and did the first days until maybe day six they are really hard indexing so you need to make sure that you know.
00:15:09
Speaker
the cost and benefit it will just cost you too much you will benefit the bed but it will cost you more so maybe that's a good.
00:15:18
Speaker
good tool to think about. When it comes to that, you're maybe somewhere where you live and you have options to go to the mountains, not where the race is, but somewhere in your area. So that totally makes sense. I would encourage you to do that. I would say what is important to think is you want to spend more than six days, six days, maybe until two, three weeks for it to be really worth it.
00:15:46
Speaker
There is then a lot to talk about how much time and you should do sleep at that altitude or do you train at that altitude or both. There are different strategies. There are called live high, train low, live high, train high or the other way. Anyway, we don't need to go into that.
00:16:04
Speaker
No but i think most important is to spend some time at the body senses the hypoxia and starts to start to make these adaptations that will help you in the process in the performance i believe in the one is the passive i call so i just stay there just.
00:16:27
Speaker
working or just spending some time sleeping, but also the active, the active which means the exercising. There's really like specificity about it obviously and that's very important in training and there are really important adaptations happening in your body when you're actually active in hypoxia.
00:16:48
Speaker
Really important then to make sure that you reduce the load, at least in that first week. So make sure that the intensity goes down a bit and the client can report on the RPE. Really respect that because you might just do too much. So really primary focus is the acclimatization during that time. Would you lean on RPE over heart rate during that time period?
00:17:18
Speaker
I think you want to follow both, but yeah, the heart rate will for sure reflect the intensity and the
00:17:28
Speaker
the altitude to some extent as well. One of the symptoms of especially the first stage of acclimatization is dehydration. The heart will need to work harder anyway because when you dehydrate it, it's just really hard to move the blood around for the heart. It will reflect in the increased heart rate, but it's really hard to say how much to what extent. At some point, the heart rate might actually not make sense.
00:17:57
Speaker
related to the intensity zones as you are used to at sea level. So I would say the RP is the best, the perceived effort. And so I would probably rely on that more than heart rate. And then
00:18:14
Speaker
I think within one month before the race, whatever you do at altitude will help you. But it's important to know that if you go back down to sea level or low altitude in general, you will lose those adaptations to some extent, but the body will not keep them forever. That's important to know. So the best to go with is to...
00:18:35
Speaker
kind of stay at altitude until two weeks, 10 days before the race, not longer. But I would say you might lose some, but you still keep some within one month, I think it's fine. But yes, the best is to actually keep those adaptations until the closest to the race, obviously.
00:18:55
Speaker
Again, I really want to stress out that if you're preparing for the trail running race, your fitness is really important. So you can imagine that if you're training at 2,000, 3,000 meters, you will have to slow down your training. And that might be an issue, especially maybe if you're trying to win the race. So you really need to make sure that everything is included in the training plan. And you might do some training sessions at that elevation, but you might actually just
00:19:20
Speaker
benefit from going down. So train low and stay high. So stay high for the acclimatization, but do quality speed sessions at lower altitudes. So you know, all the factors matter. And it's really up to you and your coach to develop a good strategy there. That makes a lot of sense.
Living at High Altitudes
00:19:39
Speaker
And also, I mean, I think a lot of people are like, well, if you're an athlete, why don't you just always live at high altitude? And a lot of that is because the quality of your work is not as good as you are able to do like speed work, etc. at sea level. So again, then I think the very important question to ask at the beginning is, what are you actually trying to achieve by that, by either living at altitude or training at altitude, you know, so
00:20:05
Speaker
Again, it's good to see where you are. What's your experience with altitude and acclimatization? And then what's your race? When is your race? How much of a factor the altitude and acclimatization is for that race? If it's a race like in Nepal, I think there are some trade running races. I think like state race. There are happening at 3,000, 4,000 meters or maybe even higher. So you definitely want to invest into acclimatization.
00:20:33
Speaker
Because otherwise you will suffer or you will just not perform really well. But on the other hand, if the race is maybe at 1500 meters or 2000 meters, I think the best is to get fit and stay at sea level, stay in your home where you used to train, sleep well, recover well and be prepared.
00:20:53
Speaker
Um, you know, you will not benefit so much acclimatizing. Um, for me, I think most, most of the, my objectives recently in the last years were kind of extreme altitude. So I know that the acclimatization is so important. So I was doing a lot of that, like living at altitude, but also, uh, training at altitude and even like extreme altitude. So I needed those specific adaptations, but if I was preparing and, you know,
00:21:23
Speaker
some lower mountains, I don't think I would be worried so much about that acclimatization. So it all depends what you're actually trying to achieve by that.
00:21:38
Speaker
Gotcha. If an athlete, two questions, if an athlete say has, it's one of their first times ever racing at altitude and they've really only done, they've lived and spent most of their time at sea level, do you see a benefit in them doing some kind of like a test piece, even if it's not necessarily a climatization for the race, but more just
00:22:06
Speaker
seeing how their body responds to altitude? Or is there just such variability in how the body can respond to altitude that one exposure to it really doesn't give you that much evidence for later on? I think every experience will count. I guess it depends on what altitude are we talking about. But
00:22:28
Speaker
Again, the best is really to go out there and to test yourself, see how you feel, see how your pace changes at the given intensity. I would really watch the heart rate. I would watch the saturation and you can really see, okay, my body really reacts badly or I'm fine. It's really hard to predict. It's not really based on the fitness as well. That's what's been observed more with the high altitude and extreme altitude.
00:22:59
Speaker
There are probably other mechanisms in the body that actually determine how well you acclimatize or react to altitude, so fitness doesn't seem to be the most important factor at all. But again, if we are talking about the moderate altitude, you really want to be prepared the best you can. What is interesting maybe, just to throw it in there in this topic, is that
00:23:25
Speaker
The people with high fitness, so when we talk about high BO max, you lose your Arabic capacity with going higher to high altitude. The higher you go, you will lose more. So imagine compared to sea level, I think on 50%, it's about 6,000, maybe 7,000 meters at the half of your Arabic capacity.
00:23:48
Speaker
But that's not really that, it's really the atmospheric pressure that is the 50% of the sea level. So it logically should reflect in also your VOMax and aerobic capacity, but what's been observed that
00:24:01
Speaker
Like high fitness people, let's say, higher VOMax, they will actually use more compared to, you know, people with lower VOMax. So they might tend to, when you go to 8,000 meters, like really extreme altitude, they might be at really like 30, 40%, but actually the ratio goes higher with the people with more fitness.
00:24:26
Speaker
don't really know why. And I don't think many people know why. But again, we are looking into that. But anyway, let's try to talk maybe more about that moderate altitude.
00:24:40
Speaker
what happens there. So I think any experience again will be important for you to try to see, okay, what can I do better? Should I invest next time more to acclimatization? And again, it's really super hard to predict before. Yeah, I think that that's one of the trickiest parts of
00:25:06
Speaker
talking to clients about these races and such is you can, it's kind of this like, well, we can try everything and we can do the best we can, but we still cannot 100% predict that you will have a positive, negative neutral outcome out of this situation.
00:25:25
Speaker
And so I think that can be really frustrating for people, but it also, I think just has to be a consideration that you take when you are doing races in this, you know, 2000 to 3000 meters. It's just, that's kind of the way it is. And we just have to accept that to a certain extent, that there is a level of unpredictability.
Body Response to Altitude
00:25:49
Speaker
We can do everything right and still have not the best outcome.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, again, the depends what the race you're doing or what kind of adventure you're doing. And, you know, it's an adventure out there. So I think it's a big part of it. But I think, you know, you invest so much into your training. Maybe, you know, you took one year to really prepare for one specific race. So you really want to make sure that you do things right.
00:26:17
Speaker
So I think then you approach us as coaches, for example, an uphill athlete, and you really want to find out, okay, what, what is the best strategy here? What should I do? What kind of plan? And so I would say, uh, if you have the opportunity to go throughout that year to test yourself and you know, we can really get some data, get the experience and make a plan for it. And then again, depends really on so many factors. So most, mostly where the person is, where the client lives, C level. Okay. Then.
00:26:46
Speaker
the on the daily basis, it's the training that is important and the recovery and then okay, let's get you to some
00:26:52
Speaker
you know, to the mountains and do some specific training there, see how you react. And then before the race, okay, do you have time to take to, to spend some time there just before the race, or we can plan for some trip acclimatization training camp, uh, two or three weeks before the race. And, uh, you know, and then once, when you fly through the race, you, we can assume that you'll be, you'll be ready for, uh, for the challenges of the race, of the altitude.
00:27:22
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, I think that acclimatization piece is your surest bet to perform your best, even if it's not exactly where the race is being able to get out and spend time in acclimatize. Yeah, ideally, I'd love if every client was able to do that. I know that that's not always the case. So let's get into...
00:27:45
Speaker
A couple of other pieces of altitude, and we are going to try to touch on heat and cold as well, but nutrition and hydration change when you are at higher altitudes.
Hydration Needs at High Altitudes
00:28:00
Speaker
So Martin, how do you help athletes adjust to these changes in hydration and nutrition needs?
00:28:12
Speaker
So when I talked about the acclimatization process and how long it's taking and what actually happens physiologically in the body, so that's really important and relates to the nutrition and what changes and what we can do about it. So what's important to know is that first,
00:28:34
Speaker
was some of those first adaptations in the first days and the first week, let's say, is that the body loses water. There's this weird
00:28:47
Speaker
how to say, I call it like really strange adaptation that, you know, the body tries to get rid of the plasma to increase the hematocrite, which then actually makes it harder for the heart to pump blood around. So it really makes it very uncomfortable. And also the increased diuresis through the urinary loss. So you just lose water. So you want to make sure that you hydrate more specifically that first week.
00:29:13
Speaker
And so that i would say that that is really one of the more important things to do to pay attention to in the first week at altitude. And then what is that important to know is that your base base metabolism is increased so you're spending more energy.
00:29:35
Speaker
whatever you're doing, if you're exercising or not. So that's really important to know. And so it will just cost you more. So make sure that you reflect that also in your, in your nutrition, that you maybe get more calories in and
00:29:53
Speaker
But also just make sure that you're aware of the increased stress, increased stress on the body. Specifically, that first week is important. After that, it starts to stabilize more. You will notice if you spend more than one week at altitude, for most people what happens is that the heart rate goes down, the resting heart rate. If you compare it on a daily basis, you will notice that it starts to
00:30:20
Speaker
calm down, your rate of breathing goes down. It's also something that with the increased rate of breathing, as I talked about, it's really one of the first adaptations of the body to try to get more air and oxygen in. You also breathe out and breathe out the water. There's more of water loss through the breathing, the increased breathing.
00:30:42
Speaker
these things start to go on down because the adaptations that take longer, they will start to take place. And so the body can, you know, put things into order and, you know, try to calm down the heart and then the breathing as well. Then like, you know, there are obviously other challenges and other things you can do with nutrition, but I'm not the specialist in that area. But I think these ones are quite important, especially at the beginning. So you want to make sure that you
00:31:12
Speaker
Pay attention to it. I think now you can understand that whether you're training there or you just live high and train low,
00:31:24
Speaker
It's an additional stress, so make sure that you invest more into recovery and maybe reduce the training stress. That might one week, if you just keep going with training like nothing happened, you might pay, you might overdo it. That's really important.
00:31:46
Speaker
Definitely. Those are great. And because I think that I've mentioned it before on the podcast, but so often we can feel really excited and dialed in on our nutrition at sea level and don't take into account that there's a tremendous amount of difference at altitude. And so I think just really being conscientious of those changes happening
00:32:09
Speaker
I experience plasma dumping. I always have to pee so much when I first start getting into altitude. So it's yeah, it makes a difference and it's something you really have to take into account and make sure you're staying on top of. Because unfortunately, you know, you can do everything right and just not have be accounting for the extra fueling and hydration and that can be kind of a
00:32:37
Speaker
a factor that takes you down unfortunately yeah and it's a big part of the old picture so um yes again so many scenarios there but uh you know when you go to the even higher altitude you know then usually how what happens is the suppressed um um appetite you know so you're not that hungry so that's kind of a challenge because you know you actually need to get more calories because because you're
00:33:07
Speaker
Everything costs more energy. The basal energy expenditure is increased, but you're not that hungry. It's quite a challenge. Usually, it results if you're spending more time, especially on the expeditions and extreme altitude. Usually, it's done to lose weight. That might be a problem because then it's not all
00:33:29
Speaker
It might be in the form of the muscle and then obviously you lose your losing your muscles is not the best. It will affect your performance. I don't think that's such a big factor in the in the moderate altitude as you know, when we talk about the boring races and those scenarios.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah I do think and also yeah just the acute nature I mean when you're in an expedition you're out there for a month plus where there is the constant weight loss whereas for a race it's a much more immediate I think just a much shorter time frame of when you're dealing with it but
00:34:13
Speaker
That actually relates to one last question, then one more point we want to touch on with altitude. How do you take into consideration races like Pour de Jean, for example, that are
00:34:28
Speaker
three, four, five, six days long, and you are kind of doing that vacillation of being high, dropping really low, but because of the length of it, you are spending a fair amount of time up there, and also if you do that kind of rapid
00:34:48
Speaker
drop in the day before the race, you could start feeling the effects of the altitude on day two, day three. Like, I guess, have you thought about that type of a race and what would you, what would be your considerations for people?
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Well, it's gone with my area. I know it's close to Chamonix where I live. And I know I will start really well, all those valleys. So this race is so brutal. I haven't done it and I'm not sure I really want to. Even though there were a couple of seasons ago, I was really looking into that.
00:35:23
Speaker
No i mean to the questions good question i think it's actually one of the races if the client approaches me and ask me do i need to invest into acclimatization my question is yes hundred percent because it's a factor in the whole the performance and so.
00:35:40
Speaker
If you don't, if you arrive, yes, as I said, within one day before the departure, before the start, I mean, you'll pack. Some of those passes are, I think, close to 3,000 meters, so I'm not mistaken. And it's really you going up and down, up and down, and all the way to the end of the Asta Valley, and then the same on the way back.
00:35:59
Speaker
you're on the shoulder of the 4000 meter peaks with some of the highest mountains in the Alps. I think it's really smart if you really already invest so much time for the preparation because it's a big race, it's 200 miles or so. You need to take it into consideration.
Acclimatization for Tour de Geants
00:36:22
Speaker
Obviously, it comes with all the other factors with it, so the dehydration, come with it.
00:36:27
Speaker
and the increased energy requirements, et cetera. So those obviously will be addressed by the acclimatization process anyway, you know, that you should be more kind of, I would say, you know, the, I would say, the direct de-erases will be not as high as the beginning, as in the first days or in the first week.
00:36:56
Speaker
For example, let's talk about what I would suggest is to really come two, three weeks before if you can and really train there. Obviously, you can stay low in the valley. You don't need to sleep up at 3,000 meters, but you can really train and spend time on the actual
00:37:15
Speaker
on the actual race trail. So really you'll get the specific training in and also the altitude exposure. But yes, it means that you will actually have to take a really long holiday. It will cost you quite a lot of money.
00:37:32
Speaker
Again, I like to think about it from the cost and benefit point of view or perspective. How much will it cost me and how much will I benefit? I think in this point and this and this example, the benefit is really high. So yes, even if it costs me, I know the benefit is really important.
00:37:50
Speaker
But yes, if you're living in the States and you want to raise the tour, then you can spend some time in Colorado and, you know, invest into the high altitude camp two or three weeks before the race. And yeah, I think you're ready to the large extent.
00:38:10
Speaker
nice. Yeah, I think it's just a really, I mean, gosh, I feel like the tour comes up on every one of our podcasts, but it is a really fascinating and very unique situation that I just wanted to touch on. And yeah, I would totally agree, you know, it's a huge investment. It's expensive, it's time. And so I feel like it's worth taking that extra
00:38:35
Speaker
bit of the whole thing. Because otherwise, I mean, you are running the risk of not finishing it. And then you're taking, you know, you're taking away everything you work towards. So yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, it's worth the extra time. It's sort of like an expedition, right? It's such a big adventure. So I mean, for me, it goes without saying, but yes, if clients don't really know, and I really tried to break it break it down into
00:39:00
Speaker
These factors are really important to address. You have this time to train, you have your life at sea level. We need to really make sure that you spend some time at the altitude because, as you said, you might just fly halfway around the world to race and you will just fail because you didn't invest into this really important factor.
00:39:22
Speaker
In other cases, the races, you know, they just kind of touched the moderate altitude and you will spend maybe 5% of the whole race, whole time at that altitude, which might cause you trouble. But, you know, the majority is actually at quite a low altitude. So yeah, it's not such a big factor. And so we don't really need to spend so much time and energy and money, resources on that. And, you know, so it really is about.
00:39:52
Speaker
looking into the whole picture, make analysis of the, of the race and, and really determine how, how important those factors are in the, and investing to them. Definitely. Yeah. It's, it's so true. You have to make that investment. Um, unfortunately, I mean, fortunately, unfortunately, like, Oh, darn, gotta go spend some time in Eosta Valley. Like it's truly amazing. So yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
would recommend it. So I guess the last thing I'd like to touch on and we could go I mean, we I think we are going to do a podcast series on altitude on its own. So you'll be a big part of that. But something that athletes will sometimes try to lean on is more on the medication side of things.
00:40:43
Speaker
And so we just want to give a few safety precautions about using medication to mask symptoms or to kind of like, quote, unquote, treat the symptoms of altitude and
00:41:00
Speaker
Just recently I was looking into Diamox and that's quite often prescribed for altitude and it is illegal for at least the UTMB series races. It's a diuretic and so it is banned on the WADA list and so UTMB uses that as their governing principles and so just
00:41:25
Speaker
For a heads up, Diamox is not allowed. Honestly, for health reasons, I can absolutely see why. So really just make sure that you're checking all of your medications for racing in terms of what is banned. That's hugely important. But Martin, do you want to touch on anything about medications or using those types of things when it comes to altitude?
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm not really an expert in this area, to be honest. So I don't really want to say that, you know, I will give you some relevant information here. So maybe like from a personal perspective, you know, I think moderate altitude, I think you can do without any medication, you should be able to.
00:42:08
Speaker
I mean, there are usually specific cases and I think it's more about you talking to your doctor and with specific expertise in order to really make an appointment and if you're, let's say, elite athlete, yes, these things are actually being controlled. For example, the Dymox, that's the usual
00:42:29
Speaker
Medica mentor medication that is being used for specially high altitude it's it's banned so you need you you cannot use it. But for me personally i was used to work on the middle which is the high altitude left in chamony and so i also used to sleep up there as a part of my job. And this the top is a three thousand eight hundred meters so let's consider it high altitude.
00:42:57
Speaker
And even though being really acclimatized throughout the season, I was there pretty much every day. I still struggled to sleep. It was really interesting. I don't really know why. It was random. Some nights were okay. I slept really like a baby, but some of the nights were really tough. So I used to take aspirin. I'm not saying that I encourage people to do that, but it's just a thing to this
00:43:24
Speaker
diluting effect of aspirin. I think that's one of the effects that it has. I would say that really helps to, you know, with, with, um,
00:43:33
Speaker
to make the blood flow easier, how to say, facilitate, really made difference. I was able to sleep much better. That's one thing. And another kind of a funny, funny insight. There is actually one research paper on that. So the scientists did a test on the huts on Mont Blanc, which is the cosmic huts, the Tetris and Guterat. And they actually tested the urine in those huts without people knowing.
00:44:03
Speaker
I was anonymous and they tested it for the drugs and they found it quite an interesting very long list of the different all kinds of different drugs and all the way to cocaine and so it's kind of hilarious and just interesting what people actually.
00:44:21
Speaker
take to make it easier for them to climb Mont Blanc, or maybe it's also anxiety to help with the anxiety, but it was quite remarkable what it was actually found in the toilet. I love that. I mean, that's pretty incredible. I mean, I don't... Wow. Yeah, honestly, that was a very bold move to be like, oh, we're just gonna use cocaine to get to the top of Mont Blanc.
00:44:48
Speaker
But interesting, people are willing to do a lot of things.
00:44:53
Speaker
And I guess the stance that we'll take on it is to be very careful to consult your doctor and also to check water. And really, I think, you know, all of this is to protect your health. I mean, when you start getting into situations where you are masking symptoms, that can often lead to other really serious health issues. And so just being safe is the number one thing.
00:45:23
Speaker
and sometimes taking medication can mask our ability to be as safe as we should be.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah be conservative and I think test yourself first before going for some serious race and acclimatize if you can I mean maybe one the last thing we I Forgot to mention is the use of the normal baric hypoxia, which means using actually the tents with reduced oxygen and that actually has pretty good effect and sort of simulates altitude one when you're at home, so
Using Hypoxic Tents for Training
00:45:58
Speaker
It is basically a machine that comes out the air of the times you have this time of your head and you sleep in the time and it's not exactly it's not at all it's not at all like altitude but.
00:46:16
Speaker
Principally, it works quite well. We've tested this with the clients, and so it's one of the options. If you don't have the option to travel to altitude, to high altitude ranges to train, or you don't have the option to go to the place where the race takes place, you have this option too. It's a bit costly, obviously. These tents are quite expensive. You can also rent them. All this is possible, and again,
00:46:44
Speaker
If you and your coach decide altitude and acclimatization are really important for the performance, and you don't have any other option, this one could help. Ask around, contact us at AptilaAthlete. We've tested this before and it works not exactly as the real altitude, but it works pretty well.
00:47:12
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, that's a great place to wrap up the altitude conversation, which again, we can continue on for much longer. So the other extreme that we'll be talking about is heat and cold.
Managing Heat Stress in Races
00:47:30
Speaker
And when we think of heat, we have examples of bad water. I think marathon dissolve is quite hot.
00:47:38
Speaker
Some of the crossings, the desert crossings, even Western states is quite a high heat race. And then with the cool, we have the Iditarod, we have races up in the Minnesota area, like the Arctic Ultra. There's some very big extremes of temperature. So Martin,
00:48:03
Speaker
I think especially heat is becoming more and more relevant to us, sadly. What are some of your key pieces of advice for hot weather racing?
00:48:15
Speaker
Well, yeah, heat is really a big factor and the term regulation is really one of the biggest, let's say, physiological factors when it comes to performance and the overall functioning of the body. It's really good to realize that our body functions within quite a narrow range of what is considered healthy and actually what is really within
00:48:41
Speaker
where we can actually function at left. So I think when your body temperature drops below 34, maybe 30, I think I'm not doing.
00:48:48
Speaker
really sure about the exact number, but it's, it's pretty impressive actually that within really narrow range, that's where the body functions. If it drops below and if it goes over like 38 degrees, 40 degrees Celsius, I mean, um, then we are into, in, in trouble real fast. So this is really important. And so, um, our body has a really amazing way to function and to actually keep this, the, especially called the core temperature. So, um, as really various ways to.
00:49:18
Speaker
to adjust to keep this temperature within these narrow boundaries and this is challenging obviously when we talk about the cold and about the heat. What is important to
00:49:39
Speaker
to also realize is that when we are active, especially with the exercise, we are creating a lot of heat in the muscles, the so-called metabolic heat. The body then needs to get rid of this heat because otherwise we can overheat. Obviously, this is very challenging.
00:50:02
Speaker
when the outside temperature is also hot. So there are different ways for the body to get rid of this heat. So basically the four types of the heat transfer in general are the conduction, convection, radiation, and evaporation. So I think most people are familiar with the evaporation. So the body uses sweating to get rid of the heat.
00:50:31
Speaker
The most basic way to transfer the heat from the core of the body to the outside is through the blood. That's also very important when it comes to exercise because, as you can imagine, most of the blood is actually used to bring oxygen to the exercising muscles.
00:50:51
Speaker
then, if the body then needs to also thermoregulate, so part of the body needs to do that as well because that's super important, but the body will prioritize it because it cannot afford for the core of the body, for the organs and the brain, the crucial organs in the body to overheat. That's out of the question. If it happens, then you're in trouble, you faint, you lose consciousness, you know, and even die at the extremes.
00:51:19
Speaker
and so obviously that's the priority so you realize that when you're running and it's really hot then you you know you get sick or you just really feel it you have to slow down you have to do something because the body is actually trying to thermoregulate what is good is that we can actually train this we can get better at this and actually with the heat specifically with the heat we can this can happen real fast and actually compared to altitude faster and so
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah the maybe just a very important one the sweating for example the sweat rate can really double within a couple of weeks of a good training so.
00:51:58
Speaker
There are different ways to do this, so obviously it depends where you are, where you're based. If you're preparing somewhere in the cold or in a normal climate, and you're preparing for a race like the Badwater and the other races, Maratondesablas, like these extremes, you should spend some time, invest some time in training for this specific condition, water heat. Obviously, there are different ways you can train in the heat. You can train when you're overdressed.
00:52:28
Speaker
to bring this stimulus for the training. Well, maybe the most convenient and practical one is to use the sauna. So it's basically do a training and then actually go to the sauna right afterwards because you are actually slightly overheated from the training, from the heat created by the muscles.
00:52:53
Speaker
And then you top it out with the soda. And you can do this maybe not every day, because that can cost you, obviously. Or if you do this every day, then you will probably have to reuse the training load. This will affect the training quality. So just be smart about it. Just ask your coach and create a good strategy. Just know that these adaptations can happen within a couple of weeks.
00:53:20
Speaker
Usually it's good to start maybe with more intense, maybe almost every day, and then keep it for every two, three days. Just go to the sauna and keep the stimulus, the heat stimulus, and then the body will be creating and keeping these adaptations until your race. Excellent. Yeah, it's super important to be able to adjust to it. And part of that also is figuring out how to keep yourself cool.
00:53:50
Speaker
and also how you fuel.
00:53:54
Speaker
when you are in the heat. With that being said, digestion becomes a lot more challenging when it's super hot. And so having foods that are much easier, I think of gels like spring energy, also a lot of liquid calories versus trying to eat a heavy dense thing will be a lot easier for you to digest when it's super hot. And also things that have more
00:54:22
Speaker
Um, liquid in them inherently will add to your hydration as well. And so it can be kind of that dual purpose. Um, yeah. Do you want to add to that? Yeah, definitely. I agree too with that. And, um, I think.
00:54:38
Speaker
that your experience is super precious. I think you want to test yourself there. This is also very individual, the reaction to heat. Everybody sweats differently. Everybody's sweat will be different. Some people will lose more salt compared to others. Some people will just lose more fluid rather than salt. So these things you can actually test relatively easily without any complicated testing.
00:55:06
Speaker
And so that will give you a great idea. Okay, you tend to sweat more, you tend to lose more salt, so you really can then create a good nutrition plan for the race. But also knowing that by the heat training, as we spoke about, you know, you can even double the amount of the the sweat rate. So that's a good thing, because that's how you get rid of the heat.
00:55:31
Speaker
the excessive heat that helps you to thermoregulate your body to thermoregulate. So you actually want that. But then also you obviously need to replace that the fluids. And again, back to the point that I spoke about before, is that most of your blood during exercise will be in in the muscles or bringing the oxygen and nutrients to the muscles.
00:55:53
Speaker
So less blood will be available for digestion. So that's the obvious challenge. That's why nutrition is such an important part of the whole performance and training and exercise. And so, yes, eating anything solid, complicated to digest will be, it's
00:56:13
Speaker
it will turn into disaster because your digestive system will just reject that. There is no capacity you will not be able to do that. And also very important is if you're dehydrated, especially seriously dehydrated, anything else like the digestion and absorption of nutrients of food will be very, very difficult. So obviously you want to hydrate first. But yeah, there's so much to talk about.
00:56:43
Speaker
about nutrition and there are much more knowledgeable people than me for this. We'll see. But I think just kind of general guidelines or just even, I think, alerting people to the fact that strategies will have to change in all of these extreme situations is
Staying Cool in Hot Races
00:57:05
Speaker
super crucial. Yeah, I think people are just like, Oh, yeah, I know. It's this is what works. It's like, well, that might work great at sea level in a nice 60 degree or like, you know, 18 C day. Perfect. But you know, we start adding in different factors and it changes a lot. Yeah, I call it a train for adversity. You know, if you only train in the, I
00:57:29
Speaker
Well, you will come to the race and the weather will be bad and well, you're not ready. And mostly on one way or the other.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yes, I think it's really important and important as you spoke about the cardboard rings or eating more like the fluids and the calories in the fluids. I think it's really important to keep separated the fluids and also the cardboard rings because if you only have the cardboard rings, you might run into trouble because you're kind of stuck with either one or the other.
00:58:04
Speaker
It's important again, but talk to the other coaches and the nutritionist before and really to know test yourself. Again, test your sweat rate and test your sweat, what is actually in it. How much salt, how much mineral, how much salt do you tend to lose through the sweat because these are important because then you can really adjust your nutrition for the race.
00:58:32
Speaker
Absolutely. So recently, as in a week ago, and then back in April, I participated in two races that were unexpectedly warmer than anticipated as in far, far over, well,
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, the one in April was 35 to 40 C and the one most recently was about 30 C, which was a very big surprise in Wales. And one of the things that is very key as you are racing and you're trying to maintain the higher pace, the higher effort is cooling yourself and your cooling strategies during the race.
00:59:10
Speaker
And so often I think people actually just don't quite know how to cool themselves. So for me, that looks like every opportunity at the race that I had of canyons to have ice down the shirt, ice in my hat, dunk my head in, you know, just get wet and to cool my outside. I did. And the same thing for
00:59:35
Speaker
Dragon's Back was shockingly hot and it's the same thing where I just try to get in streams, put my whole head in, get my hat wet, just cool my exterior down because that ultimately, and Martin's going to explain why that is so useful, that ultimately will help you to perform better in the race and Martin can explain
01:00:04
Speaker
I'll let you explain why that's the case. Yeah, so again, I think it's really key to keep the core temperature within the limits as we spoke about. So really try to help the body to get rid of the heat. So it comes to the cooling, the different strategies for the cooling, if that's an option.
01:00:23
Speaker
but also wearing the right gear the clothes right so you don't want to wear the black clothes because that's you know that will not be great it really tracks more heat and so you're getting into more trouble there when it comes to the cooling if you have that option if there are streams along the trail rivers or.
01:00:45
Speaker
or ice at the eight stations. What happens is actually you're not, if you obviously don't jump into the ice river, Glacier River, or the ice bath there, you probably will bring the core temperature down at some point. But in the more practical sense, what happens quickly is you're actually cooling the surface of your skin, or your skin and your surface of the body. And so you're actually increasing the gradient. So the heat inside, near core,
01:01:15
Speaker
and compared to the surface, so then the body actually is able to get rid of that internal heat faster and better, and that's very important. That's so that you're really helping yourself there, and you need to take every opportunity that happens during the race.
01:01:38
Speaker
It really depends, obviously, on the situations and the races. I just had a couple of clients in Berbia. They ran the UTRI and it was really hot. Very unusual for September. But I guess this is now the new norm. What it used to be, you were in the mountains. It was supposed to be quite cool and now all of a sudden you're facing these challenges. You're running in 30 plus degrees.
01:02:04
Speaker
conditions. And so the heat factor is super important. You want to be ready for that. Absolutely.
Running in Cold Conditions
01:02:13
Speaker
I guess we will touch on the last bit, which is cold, which is seemingly less and less of a factor, which is a huge bummer for many reasons. But just quickly, like what are some of your key pieces of advice for tackling colder weather efforts? Yeah, well,
01:02:34
Speaker
To be honest, I like cold. I like it much more than the heat because I don't really work well. I guess some people do. I guess me as more like a mountaineer, I have to be ready for the cold weather because it can really be dangerous. You can come to the point where you damage your
01:03:02
Speaker
have some damage in your body like frost bites and more serious versions of it. When it comes to running, I guess it's really about experience, about being used logic, being prepared for that, having the right gear, knowing that yes, you can afford to not overdress because your body is creating heat with the exercise. Why? Because the metabolism and the way that
01:03:31
Speaker
the body works is not exactly efficient. You know, some of the energy goes.
01:03:37
Speaker
to the work of the muscles, but some of the energy is wasted as the heat. And so we can then use the body, can use the heat to actually keep it quite warm during exercise. And so obviously then if you're really cold and if you cannot move, for example, then you start to shake involuntarily, right? So that's actually how the body is trying to bring up the heat by actually the shaking, right?
01:04:03
Speaker
All these things are really important to know. If you are running in the cold, you want to have, again, the right gear, the right clothes, protect your eyes as well, because you can also freeze your eyes. It's important to know. And also avoid constrictions, constriction of the body parts, because why? You want to allow the blood flow to be free, because if you constrict the blood flow, the blood actually brings the heat to the surface.
01:04:31
Speaker
or to the tissues. And so if you restrict that, well, you're not doing yourself a favor. So it's important. It's important, especially at high altitude with the boots. And if you're doing ice climbing, you know, your fingers, you tend to freeze your fingers a lot because, well, squeezing grip in the ice tools, right? So it's super annoying.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's so annoying. It's so painful. Yeah, don't use cotton materials because then, you know, from your sweat, you will just have the moisture on your skin and then by the conduction, you will lose a lot of heat. So you want to use merino and the wool materials for sure. That's super important.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess it's more about experience. There's not that much actually adaptation or by training when it relates to cold. So it's really more to adapt through. One is the experience, being smart. So, you know, if you go out there to run some winter.
01:05:44
Speaker
winter trails or then the races or expeditions. You need to really know what you're doing, have the right gear, being able to change quickly, you know, when you sweat and you need to stop. So I would say the experience comes there. Oh, that's great. Last kind of question is adjusting fueling strategies for cold. What do you recommend and also hydration?
01:06:13
Speaker
Yes, so I guess you want to, again, stay with your fueling strategy and hydration, but I guess you want to try to drink something warm, so if you can, obviously, you have the option. I wouldn't say that if you go for some shorter training sessions, it doesn't really matter, but if it's
01:06:32
Speaker
For longer races i think you want to have those options so use the terminal bottles so by drinking the warm drink you actually helping the to keep or bring up the core temperature so that's the best way to go for it and
01:06:51
Speaker
Yeah when it comes to nutrition strategies and the cold so again be smart you know you still need to you still need to drink well and regularly but you probably want to maybe carry a thermal bottle and buy that by drinking warm.
01:07:11
Speaker
warm water, you're actually helping to keep the core temperature up. And I would say the fueling kind of stays similar. By actually eating digesting, you're creating this metabolic heat as well. So obviously it will help your body to keep the core temperature up. Excellent. Yeah. And so to kind of wrap up the three topics that we covered within this idea of running
Safety in Extreme Training
01:07:40
Speaker
in extremes. We are increasing risk because we are on the edges of what we're trying to do, whether it's the edge of extreme heat, the edge of extreme cold, the edge of higher altitude. Obviously, we're not going into super high altitude, but higher altitude. And so the most important factor is safety.
01:08:00
Speaker
Whether that means carrying an extra jacket, whether that means bringing extra water or hydration, and whether that means taking a little bit more time to acclimatize, it's very important to take those extra steps, to take that extra precaution, because you're not just talking about a faster finish or a better result. You're talking about safety and you're talking about making sure that you come back to your family in one piece.
01:08:27
Speaker
healthy, happy, and safe. And ultimately, that's what we want our athletes to do. That's what we strive to do and help people to prepare for. So do the best you can and make sure that you're prepared when you're heading into these more extreme situations. Martin, do you want to wrap up with anything else?
01:08:46
Speaker
Sure. Well, I think now people can understand that the environmental factors are really important in terms of performance. And so for us, coaches, it's obviously the first and foremost important, as you mentioned, is the safety and the health of the clients or the harm the client. Really important of the most important.
01:09:05
Speaker
But then when it comes to the performance during the races and when the environmental factors are really important, then what is important to know is that we can actually, to quite a large extent, change it, improve the capacity of the body to deal with these factors. And so, you know, then it really comes to understanding well the physiology and
01:09:30
Speaker
how much of what we can do to improve, how much can we benefit from the training at those serious conditions, extreme conditions, how much will it cost to do the math and then incorporate it into a smart training plan. Excellent. Yeah, we do have tools to make this better, to make this safer, and to help you do your best.
01:09:57
Speaker
So thank you for listening to the uphill athlete podcast.
Conclusion and Community Highlights
01:10:00
Speaker
If you can rate, review, subscribe, that helps us a lot. Martin, it was just a joy to have you on and bring so much wisdom and experience to the podcast. And I know that our athletes will take a lot away from this. So thank you. Thank you. It's not just one, but a community. We are uphill athletes.