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Foot Care with Dr. Jeff Hammond
4.3k Plays4 days ago
Dr. Jeff Hammond, a double-boarded foot and ankle specialist, joins host Alyssa Clark to talk about athlete foot health and injury prevention. They cover the pros and cons of shoe drop, custom orthotics, and how different footwear can impact performance and injury risk. Jeff shares practical advice on managing Achilles tendonitis, stress fractures, blisters, and trench foot while emphasizing prevention through smart training, socks, and foot care. The conversation also explores mental and physical challenges athletes face during tapering and long races, plus strategies for nutrition and gear testing. Join us to learn about all things foot care and injury prevention.
You can learn more about Dr. Hammond at https://hammondfootandankle.com/
If you'd like to check out our special offer for podcast listeners visit: uphillathlete.com/letsgo
You can also write to us at coach@uphillathlete.com
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Transcript
Steroid Injections and Achilles Tendon Risks
00:00:00
Speaker
Never let anyone put a steroid around your Achilles. If they offered to put a steroid around your Achilles, just say, great knowing ya, goodbye.
00:00:22
Speaker
If you're enjoying the show and want to take the next step in your training, join our newsletter and receive a free four-week sample training plan. Head on over to UphillAthlete.com slash Let's Go, and once you sign up, you'll instantly get a link to try out some of our most popular training plans.
00:00:39
Speaker
It's a great way to get a feel for how we train our athletes for big mountain goals. Check it out UphillAthlete.com slash Let's Go. UphillAthlete.com slash L-E-T-S-G-O.
Podcast Introduction: Alyssa Clark and Jeff Hammond
00:00:56
Speaker
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Uplathlete podcast. i will be your host today. My name is Alyssa Clark and I am joined by my good friend, Jeff, Dr. Jeff Hammond, who is a double boarded foot and ankle medicine and surgery specialist with additional certifications for foot and ankle surgery.
00:01:17
Speaker
He has climbed Kilimanjaro. He is a father, an athlete, and most excitingly, he is signed up for the Kokodona 250 in 2020 and was also on the support team for one of our mutual friends.
00:01:37
Speaker
um And I just got to see him work his magic on her feet throughout Kokodona. So I had to have him on today to answer A whole bunch of questions you all have sent in. So Jeff, thank you so much for being on. Yeah, for sure. I'm super excited. And let's talk foot and ankle.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, well, to be honest, I think one of the best parts about you is your excitement and enthusiasm for the area of that for us as athletes is most important. Like we can't do anything without our feet.
00:02:11
Speaker
And um I think some people are maybe a little skittish about dealing with feet. So I love your enthusiasm for it. It's awesome. Yeah. i feel like people it's hilarious. They like every person comes to my office. Like I have the ugliest feet and they'll have like the prettiest feet in the world. you're Like what? Like people, foot and ankle feet,
00:02:30
Speaker
have such a weird thing about it. And as athletes, I mean, any athlete really, and ankle is so important. Oh, absolutely. i think I said to you right away, i was like, oh, my feet are really ugly. Don't worry. You're like, you're fine.
00:02:44
Speaker
These not that bad. Yeah, yeah. I think I had someone in the other day, like no calluses, like basically perfect nails. Like, I mean, pretty feet, like basically have put on an advertisement and they're like, I have the ugliest feet.
00:02:58
Speaker
Like, sorry, you have to touch these feet. And it's just, yeah, it's funny.
Jeff Hammond's Specialization in Athlete Care
00:03:03
Speaker
ah Well, I should say also in your intro that you work a lot with athletes and you are also really expanding into the trail scene and supporting anywhere from first timers to pro athletes across the board. I know you also work with soccer players um and kind of a whole range of athletes. so that's something like Jeff truly specializes in the sports that we do. So, yeah, it's just really exciting to have.
00:03:32
Speaker
someone's liked on that. Yeah, it's fun. It's like, I feel like probably 50 to 70% of my population is involved in some type of adventurous sport or sport where soccer or like hunting, trail running, running in general, like that's, yeah, really, i love keeping athletes happy and healthy.
00:03:51
Speaker
And I'm really in the mindset of like, if someone's injured, you don't have to like shut them down, you know, keeping them going. And yeah, so love, love this world. It's a great world to be part of.
00:04:02
Speaker
It is. And before I get into the questions, I should also say that Jeff operates out of Provo, Utah. He has ah an office that I am like begging to like, he's got snacks and ah medical pedicures and all the things. So if you are in that area or visiting or driving through, then you can visit him in his office and I'll link his website in the show notes, but um yeah, just say hi.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. We love people stopping by and just checking it out. And I also do telehealth. So if you're somewhere in the country and just have questions, I'm happy to chat with you there too. Awesome.
00:04:40
Speaker
Well, Jeff, without further ado let's dig into this.
Heel-to-Toe Drop and Athlete Performance
00:04:45
Speaker
So we have kind of a few overarching themes, and then we'll dive into the specific questions. Our first theme is footwear and gear. ah And what are your thoughts on drop in shoes and the different support levels of trail shoes?
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So this, I was looking at this question and I'm assuming we're talking about hill to toe drop with the drop. And that's a question I get often because people, you know, you read Born to Run, you read these other books and it's like, oh, I should go barefoot running essentially, which is like a zero degree.
00:05:20
Speaker
And there's you know strong opinions there than the strong opinions the other way. I think one interesting trend to look at is shoe gear in general. There's a couple brands out there that went to a zero degree and now we're kind of coming back from a zero degree.
00:05:35
Speaker
I think that's something interesting to look at. Um, zero degree is totally fine or zero degree. Foot drop. The, the issue is, is when we're little kids, our parents buy us cute little shoes.
00:05:48
Speaker
And then we wear all these fun little shoes that have a heel to toe drop in it. And because of that, our body naturally adjusts to a tighter or shorter Achilles tendon. And because we have that shorter Achilles tendon, if we then go to a zero degree shoe, we're stretching that tendon out. Even if it's only a millimeter two, it leads us to have potentially more injuries.
00:06:09
Speaker
Achilles tendonitis, posterior tibial tendonitis, or heel pain, plantar fasciitis, where that word can come from very often. And so for people who are like,
00:06:21
Speaker
I want to go to a zero degree shoe, you need to just do it really slow. So you go, you run barefoot on some grass, a hundred yards for a week, and then you just slowly increase that or go into a shoe like that zero degree and you just slowly go that way.
00:06:38
Speaker
Um, now is there benefits the one or the other? And honestly, I don't think so. In my personal opinion, it's just what you're comfortable with. Um, I mean, running in a stiletto, yeah, that's not going to work well, but you know, whether you're running in a four degree or so four millimeter, six millimeter degree shoe to a zero, it's not going to make a big difference. It's just, are you prepared to run whatever distance or activity in that shoe or hike in that shoe or whatever it may be?
Custom Orthotics for Enhanced Performance
00:07:05
Speaker
So personally for me, like, yeah, I'll wear like an ultra zero degree around my office. And at the end of the day, my Achilles will start to get sore because I'm used to a little bit more of a lift. um I like the wider toe box of the shoes. That's why i like wearing it.
00:07:19
Speaker
But I don't, for me personally, I don't run in that shoe. Now people love that shoe and run in it. And that's great because they're prepared for it. But I personally like a four to six millimeter drop. So at least for the drop portion of the question, that's, that's kind of my take. I don't know. What are your thoughts, Alyssa?
00:07:35
Speaker
You love shoes. Yeah, I do love shoes. We could talk for hours about shoes. we could start here all day. ah We could. i know this is the, this is Jeff and I can talk for hours. This is the fun part.
00:07:48
Speaker
So, yes, I mean, very similarly, i think that the biggest concern is when people try to make drastic changes. And so they go, yes, I'm just going to jump out and run a 10 miler in barefoot shoes or zero drop. And that's really that abrupt change is going to cause a lot of issues.
00:08:05
Speaker
And so yeah I think of it as it's why I never. really give specific shoe recommendations. I will offer, Hey, these are some ideas after I've asked them a few questions about how they run, what they're doing, what they're used to. Like, it's kind of a questionnaire before I will start offering a few ideas, but I will never be like, it's only this shoe and that's it.
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah. um So yeah, go ahead. No, yeah, I agree. And I think for me, because as a podiatrist, people are like, hey what's the best shoe? What's the best shoe? And i have like things that I like about shoes, but there's no brand that I'm like, this is the shoe that's going to change your world. And shoe companies want you to feel like their shoe is the the cure all right.
00:08:52
Speaker
um So in our office was really cool. We actually have a foot scanner that will actually measure your foot and tell you what shoe brand you fit best into, which is really cool. um But even then, i always tell people you have to go to a good store and try them on. You have to go or find a store that's going to let you take them and maybe have a really good return policy if you don't like that shoe.
00:09:13
Speaker
I know like REI in general, big store that's available. They have a really good return policy for shoes um here in Utah. There's a place called Runner's Corner and they'll let you return shoes. So finding that specialty run store where you're at or somewhere, really try it out because it will make a world of difference. I have patients all the time. They'll come in and they'll be ah, doc,
00:09:34
Speaker
Like, I'm just also having Achilles pain. And I'm like, okay, they're like, I ran a marathon with no problems. I did all this. And now I'm having this trouble. And I go, well, have you got a new pair of shoes?
00:09:45
Speaker
Like, oh, yeah, I just changed from brand A to brand B. And I say, well, let's start just go back back to brand A. And they come back like, oh, I'm fine. i don't have any problems. And it really can be something as simple as that.
00:09:58
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And the other thing is, I mean, i personally really struggle with ultra. I have found that that is a shoe that it just causes it's, it's not my shoe and that's okay. I mean, and I have so many clients, friends, et cetera, who swear by ultra. And so yeah to me, it's like, I can't, I ah amazing.
00:10:18
Speaker
I'm so glad it works for them. So what works for me, you know, it's just like nutrition. It's just like training. Everything is personalized. And the wonderful thing is we have so many great options. Yeah. So it's, I think it's, yeah, very And different price points and things like that.
00:10:33
Speaker
Totally. And I think we'll get into this a little bit more later on, but like shoes can only do so much. There are other things that you can do that will personalize things to you to help you. And that would be like a custom orthotic or an orthotic that's then gonna give you the ability to adjust to like, you could go into a shoe that you're like, I'm like the shoes, tread pattern's really good on it. So I'm technical stuff.
00:10:59
Speaker
But you can put an orthotic in it to then give you even more stability, whereas so you might not have had that. Or if you want a quicker shoe, there's so many ways to take the shoe and make it better without having to like, find the one shoe that really doesn't exist, I feel like.
00:11:15
Speaker
So, I mean, let's get into that. What are your thoughts on custom insoles and yeah how do you use them for your athletes? So we're opening Pandora's box here. I have very strong opinions here.
00:11:30
Speaker
So i think, and you know, and i some people might want to turn off the podcast now and say, here, orthotics, because there's so many strong opinions in the United States. And I think that's key in the United States against orthotics.
00:11:43
Speaker
um And that's because in the United States, the training of podiatrists, orthopedics, sports medicine is often very surgery first. Um, and they, they kind of miss, I feel like the biomechanical portion of the world, um, to get better. And I feel like if we can adjust biomechanics, we can get better without surgery. And that's kind of where I like to come from.
00:12:05
Speaker
And so orthotics outside the United States, there is amazing stuff in shoe gears. If you look at a lot of the increases and and quality of stuff coming into the shoe world and things like that, it's outside the United States because there's a different view of it.
00:12:21
Speaker
Um, But with orthotics, so the orthotics i make personally are through a company called Podiatek or C-DES, and they are performance enhancing orthotics. So the orthotics is very activity specific.
00:12:34
Speaker
So if you're a trail runner, you're a sprinter, you're a golfer, you're baseball player, you're a hunter or hiker in the mountains, You know, each of those activities require different biomechanical functions, you know, different support in different parts of the foot.
00:12:48
Speaker
And so when we make those orthotics personally, it's we're putting you into your neutral and not a textbook neutral. So you're not coming in. I'm taking some like foam mold or laser mold and sending it to ah lab where they build you a hard piece of plastic.
00:13:03
Speaker
Maybe it has a little top cover on it and putting you into a textbook normal. I'm building it for that person's functional. neutral. And I think that's really key. So when you start looking at orthotics out there, over the counter can be great.
00:13:17
Speaker
There's great options. And that's because they're playing to a generalized neutral, right? And that's why I think they do so well. The nice thing with like the ones that I make is we're getting you into neutral and we're making it so you can go and do whatever you want without trying to correct something. And there's like the stores out there, like the Goodfeet store.
00:13:37
Speaker
They're trying to correct you and build you into this textbook normal, and it doesn't work. It just really doesn't. And sorry for the Good Feet store. I just don't think it's a really good option for most people.
00:13:49
Speaker
There might be a slight few. And that comes down the same thing with those hard plastic orthotics out there or the general orthotic you're going to get. And it's hard to my colleagues and other podiatrists out there. There's just better ways to do it.
00:14:01
Speaker
And I and I don't think it's necessarily that they don't want to do better things is I think that's a larger issue. We can get in health care and insurance in the United States. And I honestly I think that's the bigger issue. It's not podiatrist not knowing that it's just they're stuck in the system.
00:14:16
Speaker
And so for me, where I kind of kicked out insurance in my office, I'm able to bring in these really cool things. And so, yeah, orthotics long question. They really can help you.
00:14:28
Speaker
They can help you extend your ability to run farther because your muscles won't fatigue because it prevents you from allowing those muscles to overextend. It keeps them in their optimal position.
00:14:40
Speaker
And I think anytime we're lifting weights or anything in our life, You know, if you go hyperextended and try to lift, you're going to have a much harder time lifting. But if you're in the proper position, you can lift heavier and your muscles can get stronger.
00:14:53
Speaker
And the same thing with an orthotic, we're keeping at your optimal position. Your muscles get stronger. You prevent injury, greater stability. They just do a lot of really good. And so I honestly think most people, not that they necessarily need an orthotic, but it will help them prevent injury and get stronger with an orthotic.
00:15:15
Speaker
I mean, I think it's very similar to so many times I'll have athletes be like, oh, I'm I have muscle imbalances or like one side is stronger the or the other. Like, actually, our lives are generally asymmetrical.
00:15:32
Speaker
yeah We are like, I don't know if there's anyone who is perfectly symmetrical. yeah And so i think what it sounds the like in what we kind of work on as coaches is that it's not that you're trying to go for perfect symmetry, you're trying to optimize what you have and prevent injury.
00:15:55
Speaker
yes So it sounds like, you know, if you're taking a general orthotic, they're almost pushing you into that, hey, we're trying to be symmetrical. yeah if you are functional with the orthotic, it's like, it's optimizing what you already have and maybe supporting of, yeah, we do have a little bit of weakness.
00:16:13
Speaker
That's some pain, discomfort, whatever. we want to be aware of that, but we don't want to overcorrect to the point where your body isn't functioning as well as it should. yeah And how like, it's really interesting. So when I make my orthotics, I put a foot in a beanbag and I push it down and we, and we um suck it out so we can see the mold and no mold is ever identical to the left and right.
00:16:35
Speaker
Like no orthotic I make is perfect on either side, which, you know, is obviously the point. And with also when we scan feet, it's really hilarious. I have seen one foot that was symmetrical in length and symmetrical in width.
00:16:52
Speaker
I was like, wow, I've never seen that. I mean, if if any of you listening right now put your hands together, one of your hands is going to be a little bit bigger. Like when your feet going little bit bigger and I don't know what's just doing it right now. So see, but like my, my right hand is probably a millimeter or two longer, but it's my dominant hand.
00:17:10
Speaker
I can palm a basketball with this hand. I cannot do it with this hand. Like, but you know, I've always used my right hand side. My left foot's bigger. I jump off my left foot. Like we kind of build these things.
00:17:23
Speaker
you know asymmetries in our life and our bodies just aren't symmetrical. I mean, how our faces form, they like kind of come together in, in utero. So like, you know, it's. Or yeah, I think like maybe, i don't know, like Blake Lively and maybe a few other people like Beyonce are like symmetrical. and Yeah. These, these gorgeous people out there, right? Like the rest of us are just like, well, yeah.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, and then you got like, oh, I shouldn't go into this, but like the guy who plays, he's from Texas. and Not Matthew McConaughey, but the guy, Owen Wilson.
00:17:57
Speaker
You're like, how did he get there? Like doesn't have symmetrical face. Sorry, Owen. But you know, like. But we love him. Yeah, he's quirky. Yeah, he's quirky. We love it. But yeah, no, no one's symmetrical. In fact, they almost say when people are symmetrical,
00:18:10
Speaker
they they kind of almost give off a weird vibe because it doesn't seem normal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is so
Managing Achilles Tendonitis
00:18:19
Speaker
this is great. um So let's get into Achilles and tendon issues.
00:18:27
Speaker
Let's do it. We're talking about the first question, Achilles tendonitis. What are ways that you help people to heal from Achilles tendonitis and also keep it from returning back? Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. So Achilles tendonitis is a tricky one. Um, or not tricky, but like preventing it from coming back really takes a lot of work um Usually Achilles tendonitis comes from a couple different things.
00:18:58
Speaker
Like, like we talked about changing of shoe gear, going to maybe a zero degree drop shoe. Usually Achilles tendonitis comes from over stretching. Very rarely is it the other way around, or it's starting a new activity where you're putting more strain on this Achilles. So Simple ways to treat it are to go into a shoe with a little bit of a higher heel to toe drop because taking even like a millimeter or two and giving that little bit of reprieve to that tendon will make a big difference.
00:19:30
Speaker
Um, so if you start feeling something like that coming on in your training or what you're doing, either getting a little hill lift in that shoe or changing shoe gear or something like this, simple way. So that's a very simple preventative or it's coming.
00:19:44
Speaker
Now, if you're in like a full blown, have Achilles tendonitis. so I want to stay active. What do I do? So shoe gear changes and then stretching. Stretching is key. I think one thing people do with stretching is they love to count to 10 or 15 and they call it a good stretch. And that is that it doesn't work. You have to go beyond 25 seconds.
00:20:03
Speaker
The muscles themselves won't fully relax until about 24 to 25 seconds when the sodium and potassium channels have like fully like relaxed.
00:20:14
Speaker
And so doing a 32nd to a minute long stretch on all these different stretches will really help. So pulling your toes up to your chest, dropping your toes off a step or up against the wall, any of that posterior chain or muscle stretching will go a long ways with Achilles tendonitis.
00:20:31
Speaker
um that would be like at home, do it yourself. Now, if it starts getting to a point where you're like, you are not getting better, things aren't going the right way. That's when you need to go see whether it's sports medicine, podiatrists, orthopedic and see what they say.
00:20:45
Speaker
Now in my clinic, I try to keep you very active in doing things. So from my perspective, I offer PRP injections. I offer laser therapy, I offer, um you know, custom orthotics will help a lot of times because it stabilizes it.
00:21:00
Speaker
And then, you know, going to physical therapy or something like that. ah Never let anyone put a steroid around your Achilles. If they offered to put a steroid around your Achilles, just say great knowing you, goodbye.
00:21:14
Speaker
and because the steroid injection will degrade the tendon and degrade the tissue and can cause a rupture. Now, if you get one there, like if you're like, oh no, I've had a steroid injection there, am i more prone to the thing? No, you're probably fine. um But it's just like, we don't want that kind of medicine in that area.
00:21:31
Speaker
um Other things too is like alter your activity. You might have to change some of your activities in your life. Like if you're not a high performing athlete and this is like, hey, I played tennis my whole life.
00:21:44
Speaker
Now I'm starting to get my Achilles tendonitis. You know, it might be, let's take a small break. Let's see what we can do to get you back to the activity. But maybe, you know, age does catch up and we do have to adjust how we play.
00:21:57
Speaker
You know, the serve might go from 100 miles an hour to 90 miles an hour. Like, I'm not saying you have to stop in your sports. I want you to keep doing everything you want to do. If you want to play tennis until you're 105 years old, great.
00:22:09
Speaker
But you have to realize life does catch up with you on at least on that aspect. But stretching. Swimming or alternating your activities for a while. Let's say you're you're running, you got Achilles 10 nights, go get in the pool, go try some of that, try yoga.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yoga is amazing. I think yoga is overlooked. I think there's always like this, like, oh, it's this meditation. it's not doing, it's something different, but yoga is really good for the body or or things of that nature, um whatever you like.
00:22:36
Speaker
But yeah, Achilles 10 nights, it's not fun. I have a little bit going on right now. I'm trying to like, you know, wade through it myself. And I need to stretch more is honestly what I need to do.
00:22:48
Speaker
So take my own advice. ah Oh, that's, i mean, classic. All of us are. Like I have said many times before, I'm a terrible self coach. I can't coach myself.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. ah No, no, it's not. So following up on that. Yes. Telling the difference between a stress fracture and tendonitis.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah. How and when should you stop or be like, hi I really need to know, like, pay attention to this or yeah, get this investigated. So with stress fractures and where the stress factors typically show up. So this is a typical thing.
00:23:28
Speaker
So if you're out there thinking you have a stress fracture in an atypical spot, you could, but most likely you don't. So stress fractures, if you were to like, look at your hand and make it like your foot and you'll get your fifth and fourth toe and kind of come back and put a quarter or a half dollar right there. Now relate that to your foot on the fourth and fifth digits, just back there. That's typically where you're going to see a stress fracture.
00:23:49
Speaker
So if that's where you're having a lot of the pain, you're having that issue, that's more likely a stress fracture. Now, if this pain is more back in the hill or farther back on the foot, it's probably more of a tendonitis or a tendon issue.
00:24:03
Speaker
Now, could you have a fracture there? Could you have a stress fracture there? Yes. It could also be arthritis. It could be a nerve issue. It can be like a compartment syndrome. There's so many different things. so I'm not really answering that question, so this is how I'd answer it. Let's say you go and you run and you get two miles in and it starts hurting again. The next day you run two miles in starts hurting again. It's very reproducible at a very certain distance and you can't get rid of it. That's worth going and getting checked out.
00:24:32
Speaker
And more likely that's probably a tendon or issue. If it's something where you run and it just kind of aches a whole time, you go home, it aches the whole time. And it's just this constant ache in a very specific spot.
00:24:43
Speaker
That's where it's more likely a fracture or an arthritic issue. um But yeah, if it's something you're concerned about, honestly, go see someone. I mean, peace of mind. I give all my patients my cell phone number, which I'm pretty crazy for doing. but You are a little bit.
00:25:00
Speaker
little bit. But I like to treat my patients well. you know forty five I have a 45-minute appointment. We can talk about whatever we want. um and you And you'll know at the end of this podcast, he talks a lot.
00:25:10
Speaker
um But yeah, like peace of mind is is really great when it comes to anything. It's the number one thing when I have an athlete and I'm also coach remotely. So, you know, i can't be there and like experience it. if we have any question, I always just say, hey, what are the chances we could see a PT or a doctor before? Because a lot of a lot of times, which I totally get this.
00:25:37
Speaker
um there's this like, I have this pain here. Like, can you tell me what's wrong? And I'm like, I really can't.
Differentiating Stress Fractures and Tendonitis
00:25:44
Speaker
yeah A, that's out of my scope of practice, but B also like, I don't know.
00:25:48
Speaker
um and so it could be nothing. It could be something. But like, I, if you have health insurance or are you know able to see Jeff who um doesn't, you don't need to have insurance for, and I realize that is a privilege, but like, gosh, like if you can just get in or I also think it's really key If you are starting out or you're finding that you're struggling with a few things of just like, wow, I just feel not great. Go get an assessment to like give us a starting point. So even if you don't have issues coming up, I mean, it's great to do an assessment. And then also if you do, yeah, just go you can have that ability.
00:26:30
Speaker
get it checked out. And you know you're saying like, I wasn't really answering this question that well, it's like because you can't diagnose that difference from afar. Yeah.
00:26:42
Speaker
Well, and I think it's interesting, too. So in the last i well, so there I was out like um right before Western States, I was at the trail con out there and someone's like, hey,
00:26:52
Speaker
I have a friend who has this ankle issue. Could you take a look at it? So I was taking a look at this person's ankle and he was really concerned he wasn't able, going to be able to race the Western. And, you know, I'm sitting there examining him and ah he had built up this fear in his head, you know, like, is this a more serious injury? Is this, if I, am I going to injure it more if I continue to run?
00:27:13
Speaker
And I was like, I was kind of examining like, don't there's much going on here, basically, and maybe a mild ankle sprain. So he's like, oh yeah, I've been running on it still and doing fine. I'm like, it was just me telling him, you're fine, you can run, you can do this.
00:27:26
Speaker
And he did, he finished and did great. And like I, yesterday i was on another call with another person and they were like, man, I get, I get this pain here and everything. I'm still running and doing everything, but I I'm just worried now that they have a race, they're worried, right? Like they weren't worried during training, but now the race is coming up and they're there.
00:27:43
Speaker
Anything to kind of psych you out. Right. And like, no you're great. There are things we can do to help with the little pain you're having, but you're not going to do any more damage. And sometimes you are. And so that's why it's worth getting checked out, but.
00:27:56
Speaker
Like, yeah, I have people I do ingrown toenails on, right? And it gets really sore, but it's numb for six hours. So they go home, they're happy, doesn't hurt. Come, you know, 1030 at night, they're like, oh, I'm hurting. Is this, am I all right? Am I all right? And then they they they worry about for four or five hours and it's two in the morning and they're not asleep yet.
00:28:16
Speaker
And they're freaking out. Whereas if they would just called me, I said, oh, I said, ibuprofen, they would have fallen asleep. They would gotten better quicker. So yeah, peace of mind goes a long ways. Oh, absolutely.
00:28:29
Speaker
ah Jeff, I keep coming up with like, extra questions on top of the questions. do it um So what do you so very common runners, especially now, you know, everyone, you're tapering into your event, and you get those niggles and like, but exactly as you're describing, oh my gosh, this is gonna throw off my race.
00:28:52
Speaker
What is causing us to feel like that? Is it just all psychological? of Or is are there adjustments that your body is making with that downtime that you're not used to, like with that bonus recovery where it's like, yeah, maybe it is healing something or like...
00:29:08
Speaker
things are coming up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of different ways to answer that question. I think one way is like, let's say if you've ever been like, let's say in school and you're like coming up to finals and you're just pushing yourself hard through finals, you get through finals, you get home for Christmas break and also you get sick.
00:29:27
Speaker
or you have a big project at work, or you're really stressed about something for a couple months and like just working really hard, you're pushing really hard, and then you're able to relax after those events and you get sick and you're like, wait, why am I sick?
00:29:40
Speaker
And I think a lot of times the body allows itself to push through things. And then when we start tapering back and it's like oh, we're starting to relax this, we start to notice things.
00:29:50
Speaker
And I think That's one thing that could be happening. You're, you're pushing yourself really hard and now you're tapering back and your body's like, oh, we're trying to take it easy. Hey, this is bothering you. Like, this is what's going on. I think that's some of it.
00:30:03
Speaker
I definitely think psychological. I think there's many times when you're just, you're psyched out, you know you're doing a longer distance than you've ever done, or you're really excited because you think you could podium or you could do your PR whatever it may be, or.
00:30:17
Speaker
It's a big trip, you're gonna go hike a mountain or you're gonna go on a trek. And there's just something that's outside of your comfort zone. think there's, especially in our current culture, I feel like in the world, it's like, what's wrong? Is there something wrong with me? And then you start finding things.
00:30:33
Speaker
And then also I feel like we get hyper aware. I have so many patients who will come in because of sudden their toes started hurting and they'll be like, I have this bump on my foot. I've never seen that bump before.
00:30:44
Speaker
And it's like a bump that's obviously been there their whole life. Like it'll be like part of their bone. And it's we just get hyper aware of things that are going on and then we get worried about things. So, ah you know, lots of answers there. So sorry for people out there wanting a specific answer now.
00:31:00
Speaker
It could be a our body is injured and now it's allowing itself to tell us. It could be you're just psyched out. Or you just never noticed it and all a sudden you're noticing it because have a second where Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
No, I think that's the perfect answer. I actually warn athletes, especially ones who have kind of never tapered before. It's their first maybe race or etc. I'll be like, you will think everything is broken and that you have never you'll you can't run that you're dying, etc.
00:31:37
Speaker
it's 99% of the time you're going to be okay. Yeah. You're going be fine. You're going to be fine. Made it to that point in that training and are coming down. You're going to be fine. In fact, yeah. And like, so this runner, you know, I was talking to her, she was in another state. We're just, you know,
00:31:53
Speaker
face talking and and i said they're going like she was training for 100 miler and was running 100 miler and i was like the amount of running you've done to this point and then you know it's like the week it's like in a week and a half or something and i'm like it's it just becomes psychological in some ways and and they do have they do have something going on but Now they're really worried about it. And, but they're totally fine.
00:32:16
Speaker
They can make it through the race. They can push through it. And, and maybe after the race, we can assess different things to help, but yeah, just, you can do it. That's what I'm telling people out there, go for it.
00:32:27
Speaker
Like, and if you, you know if you break a bone, bones, men, not joking.
00:32:34
Speaker
Based off of that, we're going to switch into foot care for bigger days out.
Foot Care Tips for Long Events
00:32:43
Speaker
Okay. How are you taking care of your feet for Cocodona 2026? I love that this question came up.
00:32:52
Speaker
What are your kind of like go-to like, well, what, so say, okay, you're gonna stand on the start line. What is maybe on your feet or you've done to prepare your feet? And then what are a few things that you're gonna have in your kit when you come in to say Whiskey Row at mile 80?
00:33:11
Speaker
and then it's a burrito and uh some mcdonald's french fries i am hoping alissa can you make sure those are there um absolutely i'll be out there um so yeah no i have a great question i am very big into preventative um prevention of stuff i already know both my second toes they look funky um i have ugly feet no they're beautiful beautiful um and i'm gonna be putting very specific gel padding on those toes because I know that, yeah, they're not gonna hurt for the first, who knows how many miles, but eventually they're gonna start hurting. I mean, everything's gonna start hurting at some point, but I'm gonna prevent that.
00:33:55
Speaker
I'm gonna, as I'm training, I'm keeping track of what's really bothering me, like what rubs weird, things like that. So for at least the rubbing aspect, I'm gonna pre-tape, I'm gonna pre-stick on what I know is gonna bother me because,
00:34:08
Speaker
Why am I going to wait for it to start hurting before I do anything about it when I know it's going to happen? And you can prevent blisters. You can prevent toenails falling off. You can prevent all these things.
00:34:20
Speaker
And it's so annoying when you get out in the middle of a long distance, whether it's running or trekking or whatever you're doing, hiking, climbing. And all sudden there's that little poke, po poke, poke, a pain.
00:34:33
Speaker
And then all a sudden your focus goes away from your mental stability and static to finishing whatever you want to do. And all you can think about is this like nagging pain, whether it's a little toenail or whatever it may be.
00:34:47
Speaker
So mike for me, it's really foot care right before trimming all my nails appropriately, taping up. And then for me, so On my feet, I'll have that. I'll put friction rub cream.
00:34:59
Speaker
So there, again, I'm really big on a product in a company called Cetus. They have some really great products. I'm going to put their friction cream on. Socks. I mean, socks are so important.
00:35:11
Speaker
I just, I mean, Alyssa always talks up how well I took care of these feet, but honestly, it it comes down to using quality products um that go a long way.
00:35:22
Speaker
And so for me, like, It's amazing how if you get into certain stock companies, you want to find a stock company that has a variety of stocks because that means they're really focused on activity specific things.
00:35:34
Speaker
So for me, If I'm going up a hill, more climbing, I have a specific sock I like to wear for that. Whereas I'm coming down a hill, I have a sock that I like for that. So in my drop bags and stations, personally, I'm probably going to have different styles of socks that I'm gonna be like, this is what I wanna do. And I'm gonna be changing my socks. Anyone who thinks they can go rule go a long distance without changing socks.
00:35:56
Speaker
Just don't do it. Your feet are going to sweat. Your feet are going stinky. Yeah. What were you going to say, Alyssa? I will say that I can get away with 100 miles without changing my socks. And I know he's going to be so mad at me and not have terrible blisters.
00:36:11
Speaker
Well, and that's probably because you have a really good sock or you're just a blessed person. so But 200 and zero shot. Zero shot. like a multi-day event.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah. And like in a hundred miler where amazing athletes like you who are finishing it in a reasonable amount of time, like, yeah, you don't need that. Your time on feet is slower. It's not the distance.
00:36:37
Speaker
I think that is the issue. It's the time. So for me, where that you know i'm going to be on my feet a lot longer than other people, I need that change of sock.
00:36:48
Speaker
Or if I know like there's a water crossing, knowing that I'm going to have a water crossing, I want a thinner sock that's going to wick moisture away and dry while wearing it. And there socks that do that. I think sometimes we think, oh, my feet are wet.
00:37:01
Speaker
They're done for. it And that's not true. I mean, and if you do feel that way, you should have a second pair of socks to put on at some point or do that. So yeah, socks. So yeah, I can be very particular about my socks.
00:37:12
Speaker
um And then going to have custom inserts in my shoes with padding. I get sesamoiditis in my feet. So I'm going to have padding underneath my sesamoids, which is two little bones underneath your big toe for anyone out there. They're the bones that everyone is when they get an x-ray go, what are those?
00:37:29
Speaker
um I get inflammation there. I'm going to pad those up. So there's things like that. And shoe gear, like I am... buying shoes like crazy right now and trying different shoes. So that way, like anyone would, so I know what will be good.
00:37:44
Speaker
um And I'll probably take my ankles a little bit potentially just for greater stability. We'll see. And this is all comes with training and that's why training so important. It's not just getting miles on your feet.
00:37:56
Speaker
or climbing so many whatever. It's okay, I'm gonna go run it and I'm gonna focus on what my toes or my heel or my ankle or my thighs or my quads or whatever you're looking at. Or today I'm gonna try this gel or this gel or real food or whatever it may be. I know me and Alyssa talked about this the other day and you gotta find out what works for you. And if you don't do that and you're experimenting on the trail, on the race, yeah, you're you're setting yourself up for failure um out there. You need to be prepared.
00:38:26
Speaker
you didn't If you're not watching the YouTube version of this, you didn't see that I was doing a little hand prayer emoji when Jeff said, trait your training is key to your success, not just because of the physical, but because you get to test everything out. yeah I say this all the time. It's the only way that you get some kind of taste.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, like when I did Kilimanjaro, like I trained really well physically for it and that was not, luckily wasn't a strenuous, over strenuous thing for me. It was difficult, but I was prepared for it.
00:38:59
Speaker
But what killed me, I didn't try out all the like honey stinger stuff. I didn't try all my gels. I didn't try what food I'd wanna eat. And honestly, I overcarried stuff because I was trying to put too much it because I didn't know what I liked.
00:39:12
Speaker
So I could carry it, but like, I'm like, I didn't need half that stuff. And i didn't even want to eat that stuff. Like I wanted this, like, and so I think that's really important too, is really knowing how you're going to react in different situations. And it's, you have to push yourself to limits in training to go out on that hot day, go out on that cold day, go out on that rainy day, whatever it may be, and try something different.
00:39:36
Speaker
um I think something really funny I heard is people were trying to eat sandwiches and saunas and for to train for Coca-Dona this year or something. That's a rumor mill. That's what I've heard. That's brilliant. I hadn't thought of that, but yeah, I mean, I've had more than one athlete. Cause I mean, i think everyone who I coach always sees notes from me that are like, Hey, great time to test out your nutrition.
00:40:01
Speaker
Try what you're going to use for the race. Let me know it goes. ah But it's, you know, it's altitude, it's rain, it's cold, it's heat, it's humidity versus dry heat. Like, you know, there's so many, and obviously not everyone has the,
00:40:16
Speaker
luxury of being able to absolutely simulate what they're going to be. But like, gosh, if you can get a few tests in or try to get it as close as you can, like eating a sandwich and a sauna, I love that.
00:40:30
Speaker
yeah um That's huge. Well, and I think too, it's like sometimes... we look at it as like a costing, right? Because a lot of stuff is expensive. This is, you know, unfortunately, you know, you wish you could to go say, hey I'm just going to go try a bunch of pair of shoes. And you might be sitting there going like, hey, I can maybe afford a pair of shoes once a year or whatever it may be, or even less or whatever it may be.
00:40:52
Speaker
And so like you have to get creative, you know, like, and there are ways to try things out. Like let's like, for me, like I'm thinking I'm going to go try hot yoga. Now that's obviously going to cost money, but it's going to put me there.
00:41:07
Speaker
But saying they're going like an, an, a ah cheaper way would be go run at the rec center. You know how hot rec centers are in the world. Like, gosh, let's go run around there. Like go put yourself in situations or like go find your local YMCA or your local 10 99 a month gym. They probably have a sauna in there. Like there are ways or go get a day pass somewhere.
00:41:26
Speaker
You know, we can, you can simulate things still affordably, but get creative. Like I'm going to be training for Coca-Cola in a place that's going to cold. Cocodona is not going to be cold, most likely. Well, as I was going to say, we don't really know. We'll see what happens. You maybe it'll be a snowstorm this year. Like this year is crazy. yeah I mean, it did snow this year. I mean, so, you know, we'll see. But like, I have to be creative in how I'm going to go about doing that. going have to work with my coach really closely and see what she says and and go from there.
00:41:54
Speaker
That's Alyssa, by the way, for anyone out there who's wondering. Yeah, you'll be my first person for Cocodona, which will be fun. Cool. 250. Yeah. I mean, I've done 200 milers clients. You've done everything.
00:42:07
Speaker
client or you're you youve you've done everything
00:42:13
Speaker
for better or for worse, whether that was a good decision or not, we still, the jury's out, but yeah, I do stuff like that too. I've done a lot of stuff that I've done. It doesn't mean it was smart.
00:42:25
Speaker
So I feel like you've answered kind of the best way to avoid blisters for long training days. It's practice awareness, you know, just like exactly what you were describing.
00:42:36
Speaker
Also, I did want to say, so when I finished Labarado, about, about or at the end of June, yeah my crew member, who's a good friend of mine, but she's she's a really good climber. She's very much in the mountain sports, but is learning the trail running scene a bit more. And I finished and I had one blister. it was just, I sent you a picture.
00:42:59
Speaker
Um, yeah one blister on like my fourth toe and that was it. And she was like, Oh, so your feet just must get destroyed every race. Like you must just be in horrible pain every single race.
00:43:14
Speaker
Right. I said, not at all. Like I do not, my feet are not getting sacrificed at all. I mean, it's been, I have literally had feet that were so infected that they were kind of borderline rotting flesh. Like they smelled horrible. They were like black.
00:43:39
Speaker
Oh yeah. Well, a blister that got infected. It was a five day run in a blister that got so infected. It was like, eating itself basically. Um, so I have been at the depths of really bad feet and I would say in the last two to three years, I will come away from a hundred, hundred plus miler with maybe one to two small blisters, um, that I don't even know I have until I have finished the race. I pull off my shoe and I'm like, Oh, okay.
00:44:09
Speaker
There's the one. So you do not have to sacrifice your feet yeah to be able to do these things. You can be preventative. You can yeah have it be a good experience.
00:44:22
Speaker
You don't have to come at the end of the race knowing you're going to lose toenails or anything. Like so many marathon runners come into my office and they're like, oh, I'm going to lose my toenails. Don't worry about it. I'm like, well, how about I just make them so you don't lose your toenails?
00:44:35
Speaker
And they're like, you can do that. I'm like, yeah. Or, you know, we can do something to prevent that. And then they come back the week after like, why don't else feel great? And you're like, yes, there's so many ways, whether it's blisters or anything, you can really do a lot of things. Now, obviously you're going to get stuff.
00:44:52
Speaker
I mean, even the best, there's always that weird thing, whether you start breaking through your shoe differently, you're wearing it differently, you're on different terrain. Like you can't prevent everything, but you can be better prepared. I think so. Here's one thing I'm I'm Jeff Hammond. I like long weeks, long walks on the beach.
00:45:08
Speaker
um So I go on long walks the beach. I do. I love them. And I go barefoot. and my trouble is i'll walk for like an hour and a half one direction and my feet are killing me because i like i'm like on sandpaper and no i didn't prepare myself to like wear some sandals or shoes or something better and i do it every time i go i go to south carolina almost once a year and i do the same walk um so i'm gonna watch you when you come to san diego and be like stop it jeff Yes, grab a pair of tennis shoes. Yeah, it's not sexy.
00:45:40
Speaker
I'm not going to look great on the beach. But boy, ice then I'm walking back and I'm hobbling back and my feet are like raw. Because, you know, i'm I'm in Utah. I don't have beaches to walk on and I don't walk barefoot on the cement here. So, you know, and that's like I could have prepared myself and prevented that and had a much better experience. That's the same thing with anything we do in life in general. I mean, this could be just general life.
00:46:01
Speaker
Preparing yourself will... go a long ways. And even if it's for an experience you don't ever expect to happen, if that experience ever happens and you're prepared, you'll be able to jump in. And I think from like the medical standpoint, you know, I've been trained to do CPR and emergency medicine. And it's amazing how like you train, you're like, I'm never going to do it. I'm a foot doctor.
00:46:20
Speaker
When am I ever going to do this? But I've been in situations where those things have come about and it clicks in because I prepared and I can do something. And the same thing with any race or adventure in our life or,
00:46:31
Speaker
grand, you know, a travel experience. If you prepare yourself, you'll be so much happier.
00:46:40
Speaker
Yep. That work. Stick that on someone's. Yeah. And we're done. ah Stick that on everyone's forehead. Be prepared. Okay. This should be a fast and dirty one Should I pop blisters or just leave them alone?
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah, i love this question. um sure you've never answered it. Yeah, this I've never answered this question before. This is a brand new question. No, this is great. This is a great question because everyone has this question.
00:47:07
Speaker
I say, so, okay, this, this has caveats and everything, but I'm all about popping blisters. Okay. Now, when should you pop that blister? So if you're in the middle of a hundred mile race and you have 25, 50, 30, 70 miles Because what it's going to do, i always kind of say, like, you know when you put a new phone screen on and you get a bubble in it?
00:47:30
Speaker
How you have to like push that bubble out to get it. Well, it's kind of like a blister. If you have a blister there and it's moving around, it starts lifting all the skin up around it. So your blister actually gets bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger without needs for it to get bigger. So if you can drain it, so that pressure goes away and you keep the skin on tack. So that's one thing always keep the skin there and then, you know, put a bandaid, the mold skin, put a protection tape, whatever over it, then finish the race. It will prevent it from becoming a bigger blister.
00:48:00
Speaker
It will prevent it from getting worse and it'll feel better. that Getting that pressure away is going to feel better. Now, let's say you're at mile 99 of 100 you're on a hike and you're coming down and you're at your car.
00:48:13
Speaker
I say, let that blister without putting pressure on it sit for a day, let it kind of fill up and then pop it. Because then you can kind of demarcate where that blister is really having issues. But I'm all about popping the blister, keep the skin on Eventually the skin will get hard.
00:48:30
Speaker
Take your fingernail clippers and trim it off when it gets hard or go see me. Um, don't do bathroom surgery, but do bathroom surgery, you know, take it off. But yeah, just like, and that, that yeah. So there you Pop it.
00:48:44
Speaker
I'm all about popping it. Go for it. Me too. It's so uncomfortable. Well, and also, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but not only is it lifting, but I always say it's like, it's changing pressure points.
00:48:58
Speaker
Oh yeah. On other parts of your foot. So like that might cause other places. Yeah. Well, the other issues, too, is like I have so many people who come in with plantar fasciitis and they've been trying to self-treat it for so long.
00:49:11
Speaker
And they're like, well, yeah, but then my outside of my foot started to hurt. I go, well, yeah, you're compensating. Same thing with the blister. Let's say you get on your big toe, you're going to naturally start to turn out to the side to take pressure away from it.
00:49:23
Speaker
And now you're putting yourself at risk for not just blisters, but broken bones, tendinitis, a lot more other tripping, falling, rolling an ankle, not getting your, your crampon into the ice. If you're ice, you know, whatever it may be, you're also going to start changing what you're doing and that's bad.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yeah. Agreed. So, i i mean, you've touched on this a bit with the changing the socks and also using thinner socks, but keeping things dry when you're doing a bunch of stream crossings, it's pouring rain, you're in Hawaii, it's super humid.
00:50:01
Speaker
yeah on Preventing, honestly, like trench foot. Yeah. It's trench foot. So what are your tips for keeping our feet from
Managing Wet Feet and Preventing Trench Foot
00:50:12
Speaker
going in that direction? Because trench foot's rough.
00:50:14
Speaker
Yeah, you don't want trench foot. That's what got a lot of soldiers in World War I. Like that's literally like kind of where it killed them. Yeah. Like if you look at the deaths of like typhoid and trench foot in World War I and you go to World War war two it's like basically absent in like World War versus World War I. Now granted, go to other wars and other climates and changes. But yeah, it's that's a hard question because people are like, well, I go out and one mile in and my feet are soaked, right? I'm running in the rain.
00:50:42
Speaker
Or... I go out and I'm in Hawaii. I haven't been to Hawaii, so I'll let you, but I assume it's humid like Florida. I've been to Florida and you know, like you're going to be wet, you're going to be wet. And so that is really, you have to prepare yourself for preventing friction.
00:51:00
Speaker
I think, you know, and right gear, you need the right socks, right shoes and things for that climate. Like if you're going to go Florida and heavy leather boots, Merino wool socks, um,
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's not gonna go well. Like you gotta to be prepared for what you're doing. um yeah One shoe doesn't fit all climates. um I think that's big thing, but prevent prevention is, you know, if you notice your feet getting to a point where they feel kind of that pruney,
00:51:30
Speaker
I've been in the pool or bathtub too long, honestly, taking your shoes and socks off and letting them sit for 10, 15 minutes. I know that's a waste of time if you're in a race, but if you're doing something endurance, letting it dry out and then having a pair of socks that you can put on and then take, you know, and obviously if you're doing a hundred miles and you're changing it every 25 miles, you don't want to be caring for socks unless you have drop bags and things like that.
00:51:52
Speaker
But it's It's being prepared for those situations. Now, eventually you're gonna be in a soggy wet shoe and it is gonna be what it's gonna be. And so you have to, again, that's where having a good fit shoe. So you're not sloshing in it and moving around, cause that's gonna enhance the speed of breakdown of tissue and everything.
00:52:14
Speaker
And even if you have to take your socks off and ring them and take the insul out of a shoe and ring it and then put your feet back in so they're just half as wet as they were, that goes a long way too. um And also with that temper control, if you go from hot to cold, hot to cold, you need you definitely need to change stuff because that temper variant will definitely break down your skin very quick.
00:52:39
Speaker
That's really good for people who are doing like tour de genre is it a huge race or anything where you're going up in altitude. It could be really cold night or the desert where it's super cold at night. And then it's really hot in the day or if you're dropping elevation. Yeah.
00:52:56
Speaker
So yeah, that's great advice. yeah Yeah. Like if you can, you have your sock for going up. And then you have your sock for when you're down low, if that's your hot or cold or what at night and day, like if you can't now, I understand that's not realistic all time, but doing your best. And sometimes, you know, if you're starting to get it, honestly, the best thing is to take them off, let things dry, put them back on. Even if it's just a little bit.
00:53:20
Speaker
To kind of like, how do you feel about these? Okay. Baby powder. Yes. What do you think about people use it to dry? it I've seen it to use it to dry out feet.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I like gold bond a lot. I'm a big gold bond fan. So baby powder, I haven't used baby powder, talcum powder people use. I'm all right with all of it.
00:53:45
Speaker
I think one thing to notice is if you put an excessive amount into something that's moist or wet, can kind of get pasty. and can create pressure points. So be careful with that.
00:53:55
Speaker
Also can sometimes if it's too slick, it can cause sliding into the shoe. So I think some people are like, oh, and they just go like crazy and put like powdered sugar on powder, you know, powdered donuts or something. And they want to go nuts.
00:54:09
Speaker
I think less is more sometimes with that, but yeah, I'm all right with that to some extent. Yeah. Be careful. Number two. Gore-Tex. Yes.
00:54:20
Speaker
How do you feel about people? It kind of became, I feel like it's a little bit like caffeine where they're, I think we're getting better, but for a while was just like, Oh, every shoe, the best shoe should be Gore-Tex. And yeah let me tell you, i have messed my feet up yeah using Gore-Tex shoes.
00:54:38
Speaker
that reached a level of saturation that they could not dry and my feet were stuck in a chamber of soggy sadness. so Yeah, I mean, Gore-Tex doesn't breathe. And so you're just you're you're creating a ah hot environment. It's like you know watching boxers run around with a trash bag over them to lose weight before their weigh-in or whatever it may be.
00:55:02
Speaker
That's like what you're doing with Gore-Tex sometimes if it's too much Gore-Tex. Now Gore-Tex being used appropriately in the right conditions. Great. Like it's a good material. It works well, but yeah, caution to the wind with like heavy, heavy Gore-Tex, anything that's going to include your foot. So occlude or like trap your foot in any environment is not good.
00:55:24
Speaker
In my opinion, I mean, there are I mean, I take that as a caveat, but like, yeah, like if you put a plastic bag over your foot, you're going to have sweat, witty feet. And that's kind of what you're doing with an all like vortex shoe or something that's not breathable.
00:55:37
Speaker
Now, if you're in the winter and you're hiking through snow, you something that's a little bit more, you know, thick and solid and you are trapping a shoe, but they can still be breathable and still be a good shoe or gear allowing the protection you need.
00:55:53
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. I don't want to answer this question, but No, I think within caution. yeah I think that the struggle that some people have the perception that Gore-Tex prevents any moisture and there is a point at which Gore-Tex will fail.
00:56:11
Speaker
yes Just like, i mean, if you're in an absolute downpour, you are getting wet. Like it's almost impossible to stay completely dry. So I think just be being cautious with. Yeah. And I think we kind of go back to what we're talking about at the beginning with shoes and and products. It's like, there is no absolute best product.
00:56:30
Speaker
Like I can't come on here and say product A is the only product you should use bar none. Like there, there's nothing out there that's, I think is truly like that because every person is so different.
00:56:42
Speaker
Some people are going to like something more than some people are going to like something different. And so when it comes to gear and stuff, like again, and that's why it's so hard because it can get expensive. So go to your thrift stores, look for that secondhand stuff, try it out because you're going to find things that work really well for you and not well for you and never rely on one thing to be the, the savior of your race or adventure.
00:57:12
Speaker
Definitely. Okay. Last question in the foot care for longer days is foot pain on steep days slash, I mean, to be honest, like, ah yeah, those really long days were like, man, my feet just kind of ache.
00:57:31
Speaker
Yeah. What are ways that you help people to mitigate that a bit? Yeah. Well, I mean, Any day you're going to be on your feet more than another day, you're putting more stress and like any substance in the world, you put more stress on it. You're going to be sore.
00:57:51
Speaker
Um, it's supporting the foot. And so in my world, and I know we've talked a lot about good shoes, good things, but that's where like my customer thoughts come into a big play because now we're supporting the foot, allowing it to function more properly.
00:58:06
Speaker
We're less likely to get arthritis, tendonitis, you know, muscle fatigue. um from it. I think other things is there's appointments and things you can use or strategy. So like I like a CBD, CBG cream.
00:58:20
Speaker
I think using that helps with the and inflammation helps keep, you know, the inflammation from getting too much. Cause the problem is, is when we start to notice inflammation, we're like Oh, we can fight through it. We can fight through it, but then it continues to get worse.
00:58:32
Speaker
When you start noticing something, you got to start taking care of it. So like if you're starting to get to a point, you're like hey, my feet are starting to hurt. It's all right to do you know an ibuprofen or Tylenol or put an anti-inflammatory cream on, whether it's CBD, oil, tear and gel, IcyHop, blue, um the blue stuff. I can't ah bio, not bio free. Some, you know, there's all those. that There's so many different things out there using something to help you that works well for you.
00:58:57
Speaker
That goes a long way. um And then I think over training or overdoing it, knowing yourself like There might be a day where you get out there, you know, today is not my day.
00:59:09
Speaker
Today is not the day I need to push beyond this and knowing your limitations. Now there are days you have to push yourself because in races, you're going to push yourself and you have to understand how you're going to react to those situations, but knowing where to, to not get yourself injured, you know, not pushing yourself too far, i think it's really important to live to fight another day.
00:59:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, if you have a proper training modulation, you've given yourself enough time to prepare for the event. Hopefully you have built into these days so that you're not jumping from, say, two hours to five hours or four hours to eight hours.
00:59:53
Speaker
yeah You know, thinking about the percentage increase in time yeah pretty safely. for me, I like to. increment my athletes and that's not just like up up up up up that's with variation 15 to 30 minutes for that longer effort yeah 30 at the most man i hate putting more than 30 minutes it's just to me unless i have an incredibly experienced athlete who has been through the cycle multiple times you know it's a like very very narrow window the rest is 15 to 30 minutes yeah
01:00:28
Speaker
Well, and and the problem is, is when you get beyond that little increment, and I'm i'm bad at this, so i i sometimes just go out and do stuff.
01:00:39
Speaker
So, but when you start doing these things, I mean, i mean if me not signing up for Cocodona tells you that I just jump in into crazy things, doesn't tell you a lot about me, there you But...
01:00:51
Speaker
you your form or technique or whatever it may be rapidly decreases when you get fatigued. um You know, whether it's you're playing golf, you go play, you know, 18 holes once a week. Great. And then you go play four days of 18 holes. I guarantee your last 18 or last 36 holes, you're probably not going to be as good if you don't have that built into it.
01:01:13
Speaker
And I think what's funny, and this is, They won't say it, but you look at your LIV golfers versus your PGA. Now we're way off topic here, but they play four days of competitive golf. They play three days of competitive golf. When they come together, the LIV players don't always do the best. And now can I say that's because they don't play as much golf?
01:01:32
Speaker
No, but honestly, i think it is a factor that mental fatigue of playing four straight days of very competitive golf. Cause they'll say, well, I play golf every day. Yeah, but they go out and they're trying different things and doing different things. I think it's the same with any other type of sport. If you don't have that,
01:01:48
Speaker
If you're not doing the incremental and you just start, you you just lose it and you lose your form, you lose your ability to do what you're trying to do. And that comes with injuries. As soon as you lose form, you get injured.
01:02:00
Speaker
You get injured, that affects even more form and you're just on a slippery slope. Yeah, I mean, you absolutely. You have to practice being on. Like, I think about racing situations where, um yeah, I have been, i know what it feels like to be on for 23 hours, which is a long time.
01:02:20
Speaker
um But you have to work into that because... If you have never really practiced during your training, et cetera, of like, okay, I'm really on right now. And also, I mean, a mountaineering and the more dangerous mountain sports, that's the difference between staying alive or not. and Yeah. um Yeah, no, that's super key. Yeah, the fatigue putting your pick into the ice whatever it may be, you don't do right, you know, there's bigger issues coming down the road and you lose that mental acuity and it's not good.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. So I think we're going to save the ah kind of like more injuries for another episode.
Preventing Frostbite in Cold Conditions
01:03:01
Speaker
Sounds great. um Because there's still a lot there about kind of getting more into like almost diagnosis and like that side of things, which I do want to get to.
01:03:12
Speaker
um i also think too, like once people listen to stuff it's like, oh, What about this? What about this? What about this? And I think if we put it out there again, I bet we get some pretty fun, fun questions.
01:03:24
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah. But I do want to talk about, um, because we do have a lot of people who climb in the winter, who climb conditions. We've talked about heat quite a bit.
01:03:35
Speaker
So I want to touch on the cold. um so you've shown me some insane pictures of frostbite, ah It's awesome. Pretty wild. Yeah. So I'd love to hear about um prevention frostbite and also just, okay, say it starts happening. How can you protect and manage frostbite?
01:04:03
Speaker
Yeah. um Well, okay. How to protect yourself, I think, and I think this is pretty well known as layers. you know, not one big thick sock, multiple socks, especially mountaineering and stuff like that.
01:04:18
Speaker
um Skiing where you're out skiing and you can get into a ski lodge, whatever, that's different story, but you're out mountaineering, you need thin layer and thick layer or something like that will go a long ways um to prevent warmth. I remember I was a ah scout and we slept in snow caves. We built snow caves and everything. And And we like looked up how to build the best snow cave, right? We had like this like 1950s, like how to build a snow cave.
01:04:44
Speaker
And it was like in the bottom of it's like put newspaper, layers newspaper, then put this and it had like four layers and it wasn't anything amazing. It was thin stuff, but man, we were like in our boxers and our sleeping bags in the snow cave, cause it was so hot. Like we were so warm in there. We didn't have anything else, but you know couple feet, like a foot above our heads. And but because we layered, it was really nice and warm and we weren't getting the cold. And the same thing was your socks, feet.
01:05:12
Speaker
That layering goes a long ways. um Now, let's say you start feeling like you're getting frostbite. Something like that's starting to happen. That is time to get out of the activity you're doing.
01:05:25
Speaker
it's It's time to stop it unless you're prepared to maybe lose a toe or whatever it is. You got to get out whatever environment you are, at least for some portion to get that circulation back into whatever appendage or area that needs that blood flow.
01:05:39
Speaker
Essentially you're losing the blood flow. You're not getting the warmth you need for that area and your skin will die you risk of losing something. And so. Yeah, getting into a warm environment. Now, this isn't saying like you have to go from like sub zero to 80 degrees. In fact, that's actually bad.
01:05:59
Speaker
It would be better to go from sub zero to just above freezing, you know, just getting slightly warmer and letting your body slowly warm back up. You know, don't go boil water and then pour it onto something. so that' you're That's not good. And you're making a face because people think that, right? Yeah.
01:06:15
Speaker
Oh, it's like The first thing you learn in wilderness first responder training with frostbite is do not rapidly heat. You will mess everything up. we'll mess everything It'll be a worse decision. Yeah, it's that slow, slow warmth.
01:06:31
Speaker
You know, whether it's changing socks, change, putting our layer on doing something to just let it warm up and it should start feeling like you've been in a cold day and you're starting to get on a warm tub and you kind of get that like, woo, stingy, burny, but like not bad.
01:06:45
Speaker
That's what you should start feeling. You don't want to feel just burn. You don't want to be like where you had the tub too hot and you put your toe and you came and get your foot in. You know, you don't want that. You want to just like this, like. calming feeling with a little bit of sensation to warm up.
01:06:59
Speaker
Um, I mean, prevention is key. Once you start feeling it, getting out of it, if you do have frostbite seek medical, you know, attention quickly, that's just the best way to go about it.
01:07:11
Speaker
Um, and just don't rapidly heat it. Don't think that's going to help. It's actually treated, i it's like a trauma unit treatment. It's like a burn, is you actually go to the burn unit.
01:07:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because ah it's, it's, it degloves is kind of the medical word, meaning like it, your skin will slough off um from whatever area it is.
01:07:34
Speaker
So yeah, you don't want it. It's a vascular issue. You lose blood supply. Blood is life. You don't have blood to an area. ah dies quickly. Yeah.
01:07:45
Speaker
Let's avoid it if we can. Well, and here's an interesting thing. So like as a podiatrist, I used to deal with a lot of diabetic patients who have neuropathy, so no filling. And if they would keep their heel or foot on something for, you know, 20, 25 minutes and not move it that 20, 25 minutes, that skin is dead and they're going to get a wound.
01:08:04
Speaker
Like it's that quick. And so I, you know, people think, oh, hours, hours. No, like now we, the people who are feeling stuff, we, even if we just move it a little bit, that's getting rid of that area, but same thing, you know, that quick, it can go bad.
01:08:19
Speaker
Same thing with like frostbite, you start getting it. It's not okay. Well, it'll be all right in a day. Like it can change in half hour, 40 minutes really quick and rapidly.
01:08:31
Speaker
Is it true that once an area has been frostbitten that it is prone to frostbite again faster? Ooh.
01:08:43
Speaker
I don't have like a strict medical, I can theorize on it. I would say yes, because you've altered the blood flow to an area. So once you've had frostbite to that area, most like, and the significant frostbite to the area where you've had some skin sloughing, you've had some type of injury because of it, that scar tissue and everything is probably while it has good vascular supply, but it's poor vascular supply. Like there's a lot of little vessels, but you're more likely probably to get frostbite. That would be my guess. Now I can't be the expert on that. I, you know, that would be, that's, that's good question. I might actually go do a little reading today on a frostbite, but my guess is you're probably more prone to it.
01:09:26
Speaker
That's always what I've heard is kind of like, oh my gosh, if you've gotten frostbite, you know, I'm really particularly careful with that area because the likelihood, don't know what the percentage or any of it.
01:09:39
Speaker
Well, next, next podcast, I'm going to do some research and we'll, I'll give you all the information on a re frostbitten areas. Love it.
01:09:49
Speaker
Well, and the thing is too, is like some people get like frostbite on the nose where they lose part of their nose and they have to do like a skin flap or something to it. you know, they're getting more blood supply to that area after something like that. So probably not, but yeah, I don't know. That's cool question. I like it.
01:10:06
Speaker
The kind of the last question about cold and I've actually only really heard this term a few times, but treating and managing chill Blaine's with training.
01:10:19
Speaker
So what chill Blaine's and yeah. Let's chill glands. So there it's, it's similar to like Raynaud's people have Raynaud's things like that.
01:10:30
Speaker
Usually it's associated with some other autoimmune disease, whether it's like a lupus or something like that. Um, but essentially it's spasm of your vessels. So your vessels spaz out, so you get less blood supply to an area. So you get cold feet painful. It's usually very, quite painful too.
01:10:51
Speaker
i i I wish I had really good answers for those people. It is is' a challenge. It really is warmth, keeping your feet warm. I know like there's a brand out there, Thermic, who has you know Bluetooth socks where you can heat those feet and things. Truly insane.
01:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, we're amazing. Yeah. Like they're cool. Like look into them. I, I have a discount code. We'll post it somewhere. I think it works there. I will make sure it does. But like, also it's, if you truly have an issue and you're consistently dealing with it, honestly, think about changing where you live.
01:11:31
Speaker
Think about the climates you live in. I mean, i know that sounds drastic and that's not possible for everyone, but those are like for drastic things. It is where you are. It's funny with Raynaud's, you see it in the Northern latitudes and those people go south. They don't have it anymore. it's because of the warmth and everything and, and people who move from the South move North all sudden they have,
01:11:55
Speaker
this Raynaud phenomenon or something like that. And so really can be climate induced. And so for those people out there who are trekking, like, well, hey, I still wanna do this, summit this mountain or trek here or run this race or whatever it may be.
01:12:10
Speaker
Being aware that I needed the extra cautious on keeping my feet warm um or knowing when to stop to allow them to get back. But that's fast.
01:12:20
Speaker
That's fast test. I don't know if that's word moment like goes away and so they can get more blood flow back and get going again. So that's a hard thing.
Benefits of Orthotics for Blood Flow
01:12:31
Speaker
I've had a couple of patients and it's really really hard to treat them.
01:12:36
Speaker
I will say, now this is interesting, orthotics actually help the blood flow in your foot. So, cause it actually keeps the the vessels open and more patent. And so like I build ski boot ones and people come back and like, my feet are so hot cause they're just like, you know, and so support of the foot is always always a good thing too.
Personal Challenges and Overcoming Them
01:12:57
Speaker
I think it really falls into the category that we are all bringing unique challenges to every situation. Like you've mentioned, you have a ah few feet challenges, we'll say.
01:13:11
Speaker
I don't have a colon. um So, you know, like throwing that out there what might be kind of invisible to others where it's like, oh, they're totally fine. They have nothing. It's like, oh, no, they're probably coming with you know, they're kryptonite, but they have probably worked on yes all these solutions and a lot of trial and error to be able to compete, climb, et cetera, safely knowing that, yes, I have this. Yes, I have that. I know I need to be more cautious for this reason.
01:13:48
Speaker
And for everyone out there, everyone has something. i have been ah church service. I've been at a country club. I've been at Disneyland and people pull their feet out and go, your foot doctor. This is, I have this wrong with me. i have this wrong with me. I have this wrong with me. I've not been, I've,
01:14:06
Speaker
You name it, I've been there and someone's pulled their foot out. Like I was at like a neighborhood welcoming party and I had like a random neighbor come up to me and like pull their feet off and start showing me at this like welcome party. Like everyone has an issue, whether whether it's physical, emotional, meant you know, whatever it may be, we're all dealing with something. So don't feel scared to go out and get help or figure out how to get through that challenge you may be dealing with.
01:14:32
Speaker
Even if it seems dumb to you, even if it's like I get hangnails really annoyingly, like it's not dumb. It affects you. it can be the smallest thing. Absolutely. And I would say too, I mean, I'll just take use myself as as an example because it's really weird.
01:14:49
Speaker
um
Living with Ulcerative Colitis
01:14:50
Speaker
I mentioned like the whole not having a colon. I have ulcerative colitis. I had a total colectomy when I was 14. have a J pouch made of my small intestine. There is another ultra runner has the same thing in the U S who he's a bit older now, but he was a very competitive ultra runner, in his time and has learned a lot.
01:15:14
Speaker
And I have learned from like, know, it's crazy how you think I auth or snow and else who's dealing with this. There's no way. And yes, you are unique. Everyone is, but there's probably someone who can give you some guidance yeah about your situation.
01:15:30
Speaker
It's not going to be exactly the same, but they're probably going to point you in a lot of the right directions. So, yeah, I mean, yeah. Search out, like if you hear someone with that, go ask them, what have you done or what has not worked?
01:15:41
Speaker
Like, yeah, really good, good advice. I like that. So to close up and we will come back on with talking more about the injury side of thing.
Climbing Kilimanjaro Experience
01:15:53
Speaker
What was your favorite memory from climbing Kilimanjaro? Yeah. And what was the first thing you wanted to eat when you were kind of like back down and settled?
01:16:04
Speaker
Well, my favorite thing about Kilimanjaro, it was the, and I can't say this word really well, camaraderie of everybody who was going up together.
01:16:15
Speaker
In my group, I had people who... were not probably as prepared as they may have should have been to people who are really prepared. But man, we bonded and loved each other. And I didn't know any of these people. They're from the UK.
01:16:27
Speaker
They're from Florida. They're from two groups from the UK, like from all over the world. And we were, it was really fun doing a hard thing together. And I really, really love that. And I think that's why I love the Coca-Cola experience so much. It was helping someone accomplish something really cool.
01:16:42
Speaker
um And so that's that's something I really like is seeing people succeed, especially in athletes I take care of. It's just so cool. And so that was really like getting to the top of the mountain and us sitting down.
01:16:53
Speaker
Cause after we got to the top, we like, booked it down. Like we were basically off the mountain after spending five days going up and we were all sitting around eating our spaghetti and our cake they made us like super nice group we were in. And, and we're like, everyone's like, would you do that again? Would you do that again? And I,
01:17:10
Speaker
I'm crazy. I was like, yeah, let's go up tonight. Like I was like ready, but you know, they were all like, it it was just fun and sharing stories. and and I really liked that portion. Uh, I mean, i was in Tanzania, so there wasn't anything that I could get down to the bottom mountain and eat right away that I truly wanted to.
01:17:28
Speaker
um but diet Coke, I mean, i always want diet Coke. Uh, I almost brought a can so I could drink it on top of the summit, but I was vetoed by my wife.
01:17:40
Speaker
So, but yeah, that's usually it. Well, we'll have plenty of it for you at Coco. I might make you drink the full fat. Well, I'll drink, I'll drink the full stuff. Okay. I'm telling you it's gold.
01:17:54
Speaker
but You can have diet afterwards. Oh yeah. I'll take, take the real stuff. get it. i'll take i'll take the real stuff i get it Awesome. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for being on part one of this.
Where to Find the Speaker Online
01:18:07
Speaker
And then, yeah, where can people find you? Reach out. So hammondfootandankle.com. um You can set up a telehealth visit if you're not in the state of Utah. You can find me in Provo, Utah.
01:18:18
Speaker
um I'm on TikTok. I'm on Instagram. I'm on YouTube. um LinkedIn. Just reach out. Message me. I'm happy to you know reach out and talk to you.
01:18:31
Speaker
um wo so i assume they'll put some links or things somewhere yeah that they can find I'll be charged that. i will. Yeah. So yeah, please, I like reach out to me. I love talking to people. And, and if you're ever at a race, and I'm going to be at the race, come reach out and say hi to me.
01:18:45
Speaker
So yeah, very approachable. sure Awesome. Well, Jeff, thank you so much. And thank you for listening to the uphill athlete podcast. If you can rate review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform that helps us bring more amazing guests and information to athletes and help them be their best.
01:19:09
Speaker
So it's not just one, but a
01:19:26
Speaker
One of the most common questions I get is, how should I get started with training? Well, they say the first step is the hardest, so let's make that easy. We are offering free four-week samples of our most popular training plans for mountaineering, trail running, climbing, and more.
01:19:43
Speaker
Go to Uphillathlete.com slash let's go to sign up for our newsletter and you will not only get monthly insights on training for uphill athletes, but you'll also get a sample training plan. It's totally free, so why wait?
01:19:56
Speaker
That's Uphillathlete.com slash L-E-T-S-G-O.