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Episode 58: Playing With Fire featuring Michael Darling
49 Plays1 month ago
Michael Darling is back and he’s brought in a barnburner: Playing With Fire (1985). This, frankly wild, made-for-TV message film stars Gary Coleman as a young, troubled arsonist. Mr. Coleman burns down a number of things, Cicely Tyson chews through a therapist’s office, Yaphet Kotto doesn’t need warrants, because he’s the fire chief and then Ron O’Neal eventually becomes something similar to sympathetic. Once forgotten (or perhaps buried) this film was mysteriously uploaded to YouTube and now it lives in our brains rent free. But I do hear sirens, so maybe tune in…
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts & Guest
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. The only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:52
Speaker
We're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson, and with me, as always, I have the Mikey to my David, Mr. Greg Bossy. Yes. Hi. How are you this evening, Chris?
00:01:04
Speaker
I'm doing good. You know what? I think I'm doing pretty good. Are you doing good? I am doing good, finally awake and ready to talk about whatever it turns out this, whatever this thing is. It's interesting.
00:01:17
Speaker
It sure is. And of course, we have with us, you might know him as a bit of a flaneur, but on this show, he's our chief walker. It's Michael Darling. Hi.
00:01:30
Speaker
Hi, Chris. Hi, Gregory. Glad to be here. Glad to introduce the world to this nonsense. Yes, this was quite find. You brought to us this week the 1985 made-for-television movie Playing With Fire.
Overview of 'Playing With Fire'
00:01:49
Speaker
how this go Please tell the people the cast of this movie first, because we need to sell that bit. it's It's very important that you know that our lead actor is Mr. Gary Coleman, a 17-year-old Gary Coleman, playing a 15-year-old David Phillips, a burgeoning pyromaniac.
00:02:10
Speaker
You've got his mother, played by the inimitable Cicely Tyson. Mm-hmm. You've got his father, played by Paul McNeil. Paul McNeil?
00:02:21
Speaker
No, Ron O'Neill. Ron O'Neill. Superfly. Yes, famous for playing Superfly. And of course, you have the one, the only, Yafet Koto as Chief Walker of the Fire Department.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah. Such a lineup. Really going for it. But if you haven't seen it, here's just a brief summary of the plot to hold in your mind as we discuss the film.
00:02:58
Speaker
As a teen, David has to deal with a lot of stress, including his parents' divorce. He copes the only way he knows how, by starting fire of increasing size while everyone he knows begs him to stop.
Plot & Character Analysis
00:03:15
Speaker
i mean, like they they kind of beg him to stop. Yeah, kind of. We'll get into i'm all of that. Yeah, it's... They start with, like, asking him to stop. But they start with asking, like, did you do that?
00:03:27
Speaker
And Coleman convincingly says, no, why would you why would you think I did that? We keep fining you around fires. Are you starting them? No. All right. Well, Kit says he's not starting those fires. he keep We keep fining him at, so it's totally fine. mean, we can't prove he started the fires. No, we can just keep putting him at the same time and place as every one of the fires. Yeah. He's constantly watching the fires.
00:03:51
Speaker
Well, the thing is, they don't show all the fires that he doesn't start in this movie. That's true. There's at least two other fires a day. ah Michael, how did you come across playing with fire?
00:04:03
Speaker
Okay. So at some point ages ago, I'd heard this movie is just a thing that existed. And when you hear, when you hear the words Gary Coleman, teen arsonist made for TV movie, you want to know more.
00:04:15
Speaker
and Your ears break up for sure. Yeah. And unfortunately, this film was believed lost for like decades until like it was rediscovered by someone last year. There's a copy on YouTube that I watched. It has commercials still in it.
00:04:28
Speaker
And like the tape kind of fades in and out sometimes. So it's great because it really has that feeling like someone literally recorded off of television. It didn't start like on time, which makes it even funnier because there's like some VHS cracking stuff at the beginning.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. And you missed a couple opening credits. Yeah. Yeah, someone found it, uploaded it, and then oh my favorite found footage, I guess we call it show, Museum of Home Video, aired it ah back in January.
Director Yvonne Naj's Career and Controversies
00:05:00
Speaker
And I was just like, oh, my God, this is the most deranged thing. when you get, Gary picks up the lighter at like, 2 minutes, 20 seconds.
00:05:12
Speaker
And you go, like, oh, we are off to the races. Oh, yeah. oh Like, as soon as I, like, I watched that on a Tuesday night, on Wednesday morning, messaged Chris saying, like, I just saw this. It is incredible.
00:05:24
Speaker
When you have a vacancy on the show, I want to come on and talk about it. Well, thank you for doing so. I had not seen this one before. Greg, I imagine you had not seen this one before. No, I had not seen this one before. um i can't speak too much about it, but I will say this much. I think this is the place to bring this up. Watching it reminded me not of my childhood per se. I was not a teenage arsonist. My parents didn't go through a divorce.
00:05:50
Speaker
But it did remind me of just how much terrifying television there was at the time. and how like as a child, like I was like, it was just like I was terrified of everyone and everything because this kind of shit was on all the time.
00:06:05
Speaker
and it was so extreme. Like if you I almost feel like the the whole point of this movie is like if your mommy and daddy break up, you're going to kill your sister in a fire. which of course doesn't happen in the movie. as No spoilers there, but still it seems to be the implication. And it's just like, it's like, I don't want my mom and dad to fight because then I'm going to start fires. It's like, you're not going to start fires, Greg.
00:06:27
Speaker
I don't know if we really needed to worry about this one. I don't know. It's crazy. Yeah, I want to start at the end ah because this movie ends with Gary Coleman talking directly to camera as himself. Yes, I love those bits.
00:06:40
Speaker
He says, juvenile arson is the fastest growing crime in America today, which... I think he said juvenile crime. Oh, no, juvenile arson? Oh, sorry, you mean like... I think you was saying i think he saying like arson is the fastest growing juvenile crime in the United States, which may be true.
00:07:00
Speaker
I don't know. He definitely used the phrase juvenile arson because that's just been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Juvenile arson is the fastest growing juvenile crime. Yeah, yeah.
00:07:12
Speaker
Which would be your choice to be the fastest? Something has to be the fastest, which I'm going to say juvenile embezzlement. That would be great. Yeah. Yeah. yeah but Yeah. And I, I had not seen this one before and I was not even like a big different strokes guy.
00:07:28
Speaker
feel like different strokes was like a little bit before my time. Yeah. In terms of like who it was targeted at. If I was like five years older, maybe. Yeah. I mean, like part of the thing of this is like, it was believed lost media.
00:07:41
Speaker
Like it just kind of, yeah. in Legend as this thing, like Gary Coleman, our system movie. And it is astonishing that it actually delivers in terms of what I was thinking it could be. Yeah.
00:07:52
Speaker
It really fires on all cylinders. No, it does. Well, I can tell you a little bit about why it became what it is. If we get into the context portion of the show. So here I go with that context bumper.
00:08:19
Speaker
I wish I had some context about the background of the film. Script director, actors on set. What was going on on screen? I want to hear some details.
00:08:32
Speaker
Gossip skin to all that shit. Can't imagine all the time.
00:08:47
Speaker
nobody transitions from segment to segment like Chris. in He's so humble too. Flame Fire came out in April 14th, 1985.
00:08:58
Speaker
nineteen eighty five It aired on NBC at 8 p.m. Yes. The Sunday night movie. Yeah. I don't know how you break that down by time zone, but somewhere it aired at 8 p.m.
00:09:10
Speaker
It was directed by Yvonne Naj, ah spelled Ivan Najee. But not the ballet dancer, Ivan Naj. There are two famous guys called Ivan Naj. He's the one that was not a ballet dancer.
00:09:24
Speaker
Okay. yeah The tagline, all he wanted was love. Which I don't think was true. That's interesting.
00:09:36
Speaker
and think the main thing he wanted to do was set fires. Yeah. Yeah, it's just interesting as a tagline for a teenage fire starting film. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't quite add up. Maybe they figured the title and the image said it all. Yeah, that's what assuming. And then the tagline would soften it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like there's a couple shots in the movie of Gary Coleman looking like complete dead-eyed sociopath that i think existed mostly for the trailer and ah like advertising. Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah Well...
00:10:12
Speaker
You might find out there other reasons why people in this film seem slightly sociopathic. Uh, okay. I don't know much ah about Yvonne Naj, uh,
00:10:25
Speaker
Or who he was when he directed with Playing With Fire, in any case. I can tell you that he was born in Budapest in 1938. By 1973, he had moved to America and directed his first film, a comedic period piece, about coal miners who become Chicago mobsters called Bad Charleston Charlie.
00:10:45
Speaker
Okay. Great title. Yeah. ah Now, he would mostly work in television. ah He directed an episode of Chips, two episodes of Starsky and Hutch, and a handful of TV movies with titles like Mind Over Murder, Once Upon a Spy, and a Gun in the House.
00:11:07
Speaker
I love this. Three great titles. Yeah, very good. that's good It was during this period that he directed Playing with Fire. That was all, pretty much all I learned about Neji, was that he was sort of a working director trying to move up the Hollywood ladder by doing for hire work with no particular distinction.
00:11:28
Speaker
Now what I found out about Naj was up to after he made Playing with Fire is much more interesting and hopefully reveals a little bit more about the man behind the movie. Now, listeners on movie podcasts might not be familiar with the name Yvonne Naj, but listeners of true crime podcasts might be because he was once the boyfriend of famed Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss.
00:11:51
Speaker
ah god Oh, okay. Wow. Yes, and he was so much more than former boyfriend of Heidi Fleiss.
00:12:05
Speaker
Najee played a significant role in both Fleiss' rise and fall. According to at least one source, Najee was the one who turned her out and introduced her into a life of prostitution.
00:12:19
Speaker
Oh, God. He was also, at one point, an FBI informant that snitched on her. Wow. Wow. Wow. So whether you are pro or anti-sex work, you could legitimately gripe with Yvonne Nash.
00:12:34
Speaker
Wow. That's wild. Oh, that's a good, oh, that's so good. Yeah. In 1991, he was arrested for soliciting drug dealing, drug cultivation. He was apparently growing some weed and bookmaking, ah but only the bookmaking charge stuck. That might be because he cut a deal and turned evidence against Heidi Fleiss.
00:12:56
Speaker
I didn't find out a lot about the Heidi Fleiss story. From what I've read, he appears to have provided women, drugs, and sports book to high-level executives at Columbia TriStar.
00:13:10
Speaker
He's also, from what I've read, by all accounts, a real asshole. Yeah, that makes sense. He also features heavily in Nick Broomfeld's documentary, Heidi Fleiss, Hollywood Madam, which I did watch for my research.
00:13:25
Speaker
And I wrote down here, talk about this extemporaneously. LAUGHTER I didn't particularly like the documentary Heidi Fleiss Hollywood Madam. ah It, it mostly because it's sort of centered around the three main characters of Madam Alex, the madam that introduced Heidi Fleiss into prostitution, Heidi Fleiss herself and Yvonne Naj.
00:13:48
Speaker
And the problem is that all three of them were liars. So I didn't walk away with any more information. They all seemed incredibly untrustworthy people. At
Cultural Context and Rediscovery of the Film
00:13:57
Speaker
one point interviewed Ron Jeremy.
00:13:59
Speaker
And they're if you're going to Ron Jeremy for sources, like a credible source, you're you're out of your depth, man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, very briefly, Heidi Fleiss was just Hollywood madam. I don't remember what the controversy was. she was mountain to the stars, basically. Okay, okay. Like, I think yeah the biggest name attached to her was Tom Sizemore.
00:14:20
Speaker
Oh, okay, okay. But yeah, mostly for, like, studio executives, like those kind of people. Okay. And allegedly a lot of, ah according to the documentary, quote unquote, Arabs, whatever that meant sure at this point in time.
00:14:36
Speaker
Sure. um And there was also ah at one point they go to ah Yvonne Naj's apartment and there and it's like well decorated. He allegedly had some like Lichtenstein's on the wall. I don't know.
00:14:51
Speaker
Probably Prince. I don't know. But he and and Nick Broomfield asked him, like, is it true that you sold Heidi flies to Madam Alex for four hundred and fifty dollars to cover a four hundred and fifty dollar debt?
00:15:07
Speaker
And he's like, no, no, look around my house. Look at them my nice house. item I don't need $450. But then you look at this guy's career and there's no way he got that nice stuff legitimately.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. This guy should be hanging on by a thread. So he's definitely this guy is dirty to me. He's also dead now. You say that you're probably right. But also like being a TV movie director back in the day actually paid some money.
00:15:33
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, he was only doing like one or two a year. Like he... I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, he's dead and he was, by all accounts, a piece of garbage.
00:15:45
Speaker
But he made one wonderful contribution to television cinema. That's right. i did watch... I forgot. I almost forgot. I did watch the movie that he made during the Heidi Fleiss era, like trying to capitalize on his notoriety. Oh.
00:15:59
Speaker
It was... And you're going to love how classy this is. Uh-oh. It was a ah horror movie ah starring Ted Raimi called Skinner.
00:16:10
Speaker
his name And he played a guy named Dennis Skinner, who was a serial killer that would skin prostitutes. And he was on the run from a prostitute that he had attacked but who had escaped, who was named Heidi and was played by Tracy Lords.
00:16:26
Speaker
Oh, my God. Wow. Oh, we don't have time to unpack crazy lords here. No, no. that Yeah, that's a whole other can of worms. ah But there was also a 10-minute long sequence in the middle of the movie where the only person that Skinner killed that wasn't a prostitute was just a black dude at work that he didn't like.
00:16:46
Speaker
And he then skinned the black dude and wore his skin and then acted black for like 10 minutes. God. and Yeah. Really, really feel bad for poor Ted Raimi trying to work his way up the Hollywood ladder and agreeing to do that.
00:17:02
Speaker
That was a bad call. Yeah.
00:17:07
Speaker
So that's the kind of guy that made this. You know, that that makes things make slightly more sense in a strange frame. Maybe that's why he had trouble like understanding human emotions, because he's probably like evil inside.
00:17:22
Speaker
Do we know anything about the writers of this movie? I don't. I saw that it was just a regular TV writer guy. And the script, I think, is not like it seems on point for what it's trying to do.
00:17:34
Speaker
yeah you know what I mean? I mean, there are being a message movie about what if your kid's an arsonist. Yeah, there are some insane moments, though, and some insane lines that we'll get through. So that that is true. It's in the in. I know it was a different time, but some of the characters choices, a lot of them are just like, well, I don't wait a minute. Why is why are you doing that?
00:17:54
Speaker
Like that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. No, no. But some of that, if it had been directed differently and I feel like, um I don't think like the script is amazing. No, you know, but but maybe a different director could have figured out these problems better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:09
Speaker
You might be right about that. Yeah. now Also, like, the scoring. Like, we'll talk about the music in a bit, I'm sure. But there are some moments where the score is just, like, goes full Twilight Zone. I'm just, like, why is this yeah scene of the mom going out on a date with some random guy being shot, acted, and scored like this is a horror movie and she's been brainwashed?
00:18:34
Speaker
it It does try to create like and an emotionally manipulative style, but because i think Ivan Naj doesn't understand human emotion, that it it doesn't work.
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah. So the other big piece of the puzzle that we should definitely talk about is our star Gary Coleman. uh, Coleman was one of the most celebrated stars, uh, child stars of all time.
00:18:58
Speaker
He playing precious adoptee, Arnold de Jackson, sorry, precocious adoptee, Arnold Jackson on 181 episodes of different strokes. He was obviously precious too.
00:19:11
Speaker
I was going to say, what's your talking about, Chris? Mm. He also played Arnold Jackson Drummond on at least episodes ah eight episodes of other TV shows.
00:19:23
Speaker
His chubby cheeks and diminutive stature allowed him to play much younger than he was. He was 17 when he starred in Playing with Fire, ah but the character he played appears to be about 12, but he is actually 15. Yeah, well, i mean, that is because he's short, but...
00:19:41
Speaker
yeah Yes. Part of the legend of this movie is that this is the thing that killed his career. Because like, also, let's be honest, like, I don't think Gary Coleman has range. No, and that's very clear here.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, there's a very limited, like, even if he had more talent, there's a very limited acting pool for, shall we say, a you know, a short cherubic black actor in Hollywood.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that, uh, cherubic features and diminutive height were the result of steroid therapy used to treat a chronic liver condition. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker
Uh, still at 17, one can understand why Coleman might've been interested in pivoting from playing the type of child that might say G willikers. Uh, so, Playing with fire was Coleman's first dramatic role and being cast opposite such heavy hitters as Cicely Tyson, Ron O'Neill and Yafet Koto.
00:20:36
Speaker
You would think that he was set up for success here on paper. Yes. On paper. Yeah. There's just one problem. He's Gary Coleman. Yes.
00:20:48
Speaker
And let's not, there's another problem and it's behind the camera. you There's more than one problem on this. I'll think.
00:20:56
Speaker
Now, ah unfortunately, Playing With Fire was largely forgotten after it aired. It never received any kind of physical release. And as far as I know, did not air again.
00:21:07
Speaker
Pretty much forgotten until 2024 when it appeared on YouTube and has been developing a small cult following ever since. Who knows? It might finally even get ah legitimate physical release.
00:21:18
Speaker
Probably not, though. That's almost definitely not going happen. He would be crazy if it did. And I would purchase it. You would have to find the masters somewhere. If anyone is listening and can make it physically available.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah. You at least have one customer. So should we just go through this movie like kind of quick beatby beat by beat as best we can? oh i've I've got a very detailed summary. Okay.
00:21:44
Speaker
All right. All right.
Character Deep Dive: David's Troubled Life
00:21:45
Speaker
Before we get to that, other kids movies 1985. Okay.
00:21:50
Speaker
You got the Goonies. Classic. You go see the Goonies or you can see Playing With Fire. We did the Goonies. Yeah, I was at Goonies house.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah. The Dirt Bike Kid. No idea. Ever heard of it? I think it stars the kid that was in A Christmas Story and he has a flying dirt bike. That sounds about right.
00:22:14
Speaker
I've seen the poster a lot. Never watched it. That sounds post-ET. Just like someone had the idea of like, oh, people like kids on flying bikes. That's worth a shot. Let's see if it hits.
00:22:26
Speaker
all You got Teen Wolf. Love to me some Teen Wolf. no The Journey of Natty Gan. Familiar? Don't know it.
00:22:38
Speaker
Anna's a big fan. It's got John Cusack and Patton Oswalt's wife. and it's like in the 30s or something. ah The Peanut Butter Solution.
00:22:51
Speaker
Oh my God. Terrified Child never revisited. Very frightening. Absolutely. If you haven't already done that, you need to do that on here because that movie is insane.
00:23:03
Speaker
That is a real wild one and shows the state of made-for-TV movies at the time, which you could get away Canadian made-for-TV movies. Ah, even better. Well, with that, let's get into that plot we were just talking about. Yeah.
00:23:35
Speaker
Plot bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:23:47
Speaker
Plot bumper, plot bumper.
00:23:58
Speaker
matter how many times I hear it, here's the synopsis always gets me. yeah I'm glad to hear it. So half of our opening credits roll as we see young David Phillips playing basketball with his dog, Fred.
00:24:14
Speaker
Two things immediately strike me. The ball looks huge in Gary Coleman's hands because he is such a tiny man. And two, the way that he says the name Fred is like a beautiful song.
00:24:27
Speaker
e Third thing hits me, and this is a thing that carries throughout the entire movie. He is styled like a 45-year-old electronic salesman throughout this entire movie. Yes, he is.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yes, a lot of khakis and plaid shirts, even on the court. It's a very odd decision. and the The thing I noticed most, this is the first thing I wrote down, was he doesn't like that dog.
00:24:51
Speaker
He doesn't like that dog not at all. Not even Cicely Tyson. She says, like why didn't your father take that dog with him? Yeah, real real dog-hating film. Yeah, kind of realistic in that way.
00:25:04
Speaker
Dogs aren't that great. This is not the response I expected to hear. Hot take! Now, uh... David, he appears to be about 12 years old, but we later learn that he's actually 15. This is very confusing to me at the beginning of this film to not be able to clock out.
00:25:23
Speaker
But he's apparently just a late bloomer. you You buy it. That's a thing that happened. And he's roughly between 12 and 48. Yeah. Yeah. Now, ah his soon-to-be single mother, played by Cicely Tyson, brings home groceries, but doesn't have much time or energy for David.
00:25:41
Speaker
And David responds to this emotional neglect by angrily chucking a basketball at Fred. This is the first sign we get of David's dangerous mental state. Mm-hmm.
00:25:54
Speaker
Now... The next danger is ah David finding mom's lighter and idly flicking it. Now we know for sure this guy's in trouble.
00:26:08
Speaker
And it happened so fast. oh Yeah. Within yeah the first five minutes, 100%, you're like, David's got a problem and the problem is fire. We know what's up with the movie. I think it's like, it's a TV movie. So they really need to hook you in those first five minutes. Cause you've got in those days, like two or three other channels you could check out.
00:26:25
Speaker
Right. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And they're they could be airing their movie of the week. They're bringing in their heavy hitters up against your movie the week. That's for sure. Exactly. Like you're not in the theater and have bought a ticket like you were choosing. Like, well, I have so many other things I could be doing right now if this isn't interesting.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah. Now, ah the next day, he's tardy for school, and his bio teacher busts his chops about in front of the whole class, including cute new girl Pam and the closest thing David has to a friend, Mikey.
00:26:56
Speaker
yeah What did you guys think about David and Mikey's relationship? god like I also found that hard to clock. Yeah, it's really confusing, in in some ways, that made it seem slightly more realistic to me, in a way. Yeah.
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah. Where it's just like, I don't know if they like each other, but they keep hanging out, which is something that I recall for a while. You know, like when you're first in high school where you're just like, I don't think I like them, but like, this is what we do.
00:27:23
Speaker
do I want to hang out with them or not? We were friends with small kids and now we're still right kind of not really ish. But at the same time, it didn't quite make any of their choices make any sense still, even in that context.
00:27:39
Speaker
To be fair, the only choice in that movie, in this movie that makes sense is Light Thing on Fire. Yeah. That may be true. Yeah. Based on the internal logic of the film. Yeah. That's the only thing that's consistent.
00:27:52
Speaker
yeah Yeah. To me, Dave and Mikey, it was like Mikey seemed like he was the nicest person to David, but yeah he wasn't that nice. No. And it seems like he would sort of bust his chops maybe the way other kids would bust each other's chops. Like maybe it was that.
00:28:09
Speaker
and But he was just completely oblivious to what David was going through. Yes. Yeah. ah Which is also very high school, to be fair. Now, ah that weekend, Dad comes by and the Phillips residents to pick up David's younger siblings, Eileen and Marky, to take them to Playland.
00:28:32
Speaker
Dad is played by Ron O'Neill, a.k.a. Superfly, and he's still pretty damn cool in this movie. Yeah. I heard that he was ah like a classically trained Shakespearean actor, and that's why he has the ability to bring such a regalness to his performances that I always enjoy.
00:28:50
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. And he's got that voice, which just does a lot of work for him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can tell that that's a trained voice. that That's not a voice that he was walking around with. He put some work in.
00:29:03
Speaker
yeah see what demon here You know, there's that tweet about ah why do deadbeat dads get such a bad rap? What if the kid just sucks?
00:29:15
Speaker
That's this movie. Yeah. I completely understand why dad does not want to hang out with ah David. David does truly have bad vibes. It's true.
00:29:28
Speaker
Now, ah he tells David that he's too old to go to play land, but he promises to buy him an authentic leather basketball. And hey, why don't you go out there and kiss the girls? You know, completely ignoring the fact that his son is two feet tall.
00:29:42
Speaker
oh Now, ah mom mumbles about how this is all bullshit and wanders off to do something in the kitchen. So David takes this opportunity to menace Fred the dog with a lighter.
00:29:55
Speaker
the Just to let you know, right off the bat, he's instantly trying to set a dog on fire. Yeah. I mean, this kid is fucking evil. to be fair, I don't think he's necessarily trying to set the dog on fire. He's just trying to menace the dog with the lighter, which is also evil.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. i've I feel like at this point of the movie, I was so ah unsure about the tone and like how far it would go. i was genuinely afraid that he was going to set Fred on fire. I literally wrote down, don't set the dog on fire. Yeah.
00:30:29
Speaker
Like I just saw the dog and I was just like, don't set the dog on fire. Don't set the dog on fire. And we are eight minutes into the movie and we are torturing a dog with flame. yeah like we We all have incredible fear that we are about to see a dog get burned alive by Gary Coleman. That's a very strange place for a movie to be.
00:30:51
Speaker
The dog lives. The dog is fine throughout this movie. The dog is the most normal character in this movie. In fact, this may be the last time we really talk about the dog. I don't know. He survives the house fire midway through.
00:31:07
Speaker
yeah Fred runs away, obviously afraid of being set on fire. So David takes this opportunity to ah set his mother's trench coat on fire instead.
00:31:18
Speaker
I think it happens accidentally. That was my read on it. He's flicking it. He kind of is like, you know, drunk with power and accidentally lights the trench coat on fire. Because that is the one bit of character development is that like at first he's entranced by the flame and then he accidentally starts a fire and he's like, oh, oh.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah. Now, first he just loves lighter. Then he realizes no lighter, good fire better.
00:31:44
Speaker
Now, mom puts out the fire. And she asked David how this happened. And he shrugs and mumbles something about faulty wiring before wandering off.
00:31:54
Speaker
And Mom's like, hmm. Yes, and points to two extension cords that are just loaded to bear. but yeah I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm with the kid on this one. This is believable.
00:32:08
Speaker
So admittedly, he's right. It's too much power. But as a parent, I'd be like, well, if the plug started the fire, then they should be on fire. And they're not.
00:32:21
Speaker
So what did happen here, David? But she didn't it never even occurs to her that David could lie. I don't think she really cares about him.
00:32:33
Speaker
No, she's got enough on her plate. She's not curious about anything else. I wrote over and over again. i was like, these adults are failing this child. Oh, yeah. Well, there's a whole scene we'll talk about with that. Oh, yeah. so So next week, he but ah he brings his cool new leather basketball to school.
00:32:55
Speaker
And he's dribbling it around the gym while wearing a flannel shirt and khakis. Well, everyone else is either playing. this is a gym where simultaneously gymnastics and basketball and probably like three other sports are all happening at the same time.
00:33:08
Speaker
Very normal. Yeah. You know, they built a gym that's way too big. So, you know, they're making use of it. Multiple clubs can use it at once. The boys after school rec league is having some fun.
00:33:21
Speaker
The gymnasts are warming up. And ah let's see. Mikey asks if he can borrow the leather basketball and then plays with the other fellows, excluding David in front of Pam.
00:33:35
Speaker
Very emasculating. yeah When Mike returns it to a visibly upset David, he explains that he only wants to play basketball with the guys who are good at basketball, who are all at least 18 inches taller than David.
00:33:52
Speaker
Now, he tells him that they aren't kids anymore, after all. And David responds, I'll show you how much of a kid I'm not, and then sets a trash can on fire.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yep. ah Before we get to that fire, i just want to back up. He has his first conversation with Pam, which has like one of the greatest negs I've ever heard, which is, yeah, I know you're the big deal gymnast in my first period.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, this is. What a shit. Yeah, he's really unlikable. Oh, yeah. A literal angel throughout this entire movie.
00:34:29
Speaker
Completely. Yeah. And utterly. Mm. So, yes. So he lights a trash can on fire. Then, he yeah, he says, I'll show you how much of a kid I'm not and sets a trash can on fire.
00:34:40
Speaker
Mike sort of yells at him about this. Like, what are you doing, man? but what What's going on? Why would you do that? yeah And Dave is just like, I don't know. i don't know Whatever.
00:34:56
Speaker
And then he goes and he pulls the fire alarm. The fire department rolls up, including Chief Walker, played by Yafet Kodo. What did you guys think of Yafet Kodo in this battle?
00:35:07
Speaker
He's fantastic. He's also not a police officer. no Yes. He's not. You may watch this, but he's not a police officer. He's a fire chief. He's a fire chief. I love this. I love him in this. I also love that there is a point of view of this movie where if you're his mom, you're just like, why is the fire chief stalking my son?
Chief Walker's Investigation
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah. like yeah and then there You'll find out the reason is actually surprisingly legitimate. yeah There are so many scenes where he will just walk into a room and you're like, how?
00:35:37
Speaker
Why were you there to begin with? Yeah. there's He's in the backyard. It's like, how'd you get on the grounds? I got where I was. Fire inspection. Looks like you're under capacity. I had to come check it out. It's like, does this man have anything else to do in town as fire chief?
00:35:56
Speaker
Yeah. Look. The entire town besides stock Gary Coleman. Here's what I'll say about the chief. Yeah. A lot of fire chiefs are reactive.
00:36:07
Speaker
Here we have a fire chief that's proactive. That's true. He's trying to prevent fires. Yeah, that's true. And we'll find out why a little later. And this guy is setting, sets like four fires in a week. So once again, I'm going to say he's making the right call. He's all doing it right. He's doing it right.
00:36:25
Speaker
I also love later when he's like, answer like you're in a court. And the father's like, he's not in a court. there's a beautiful exchange yes yeah yeah dad does have a point there yeah but i and i love yafet koto just in general as an actor he's fantastic homicide fans so and he brings that same sort of like magisterial energy i i hate to describe two actors in this as magisterial but he does feel like he should be a king he allegedly is descended from a king uh
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah, like that's something like weird the adult actors they got are so good. They're all legend. yeah The people that are acting in this are pillars of that. You know what I mean? They're very strong, very strong actors.
00:37:11
Speaker
And they are strong in this, despite the fact that it is a message movie about children starting fires. Yeah.
00:37:21
Speaker
Now, ah well Walker questions the boys. And ah David says, hey, I'm the one who pulled the fire alarm. There was this lifted truck that sparks came out of its exhaust.
00:37:34
Speaker
And then we get a commercial break. Michael, you watched the commercial version. Greg and I decided to eschew that. Can you give us just a couple commercial thoughts? I got a couple of commercial breaks worked in.
00:37:48
Speaker
This break, I didn't really take any notes. wasn't anything particularly notable, but I think it was just fun to watch it as if it was but the air date back in 1985. The version that's on YouTube is from WVTM, Birmingham, Alabama.
00:38:04
Speaker
Oh, nice. Oh, wow. One or two little local ads for Alabama. Nice. is Very nice. Yeah, I suspect the version that Greg and I watched was that version that someone just edited out the commercials. Like, it was almost definitely the same cut. Oh, for sure.
00:38:18
Speaker
yeah I just want to point out, like first commercial break, we've had two fires already. like This thing is just like trying to grab your attention, and it holds.
00:38:29
Speaker
Now, ah
00:38:32
Speaker
the next day, Walker goes to Mikey's garage, and he accuses Mikey of being a firebug. He's not a police officer. He's not a police officer, but the non-police officer shows He is an authority figure.
00:38:45
Speaker
He is. He is. He is someone that a child should respect. I do like later when he's like, I had a beer and he walks up on me. It's like, he's the he's the chief fireman. He's the chief fireman.
00:38:57
Speaker
and that's yeah That's when the outfit has an amazing threat, which is, if I'm right, I'm going to nail you to the highest tree. Yeah. Yeah. he's he Like, he knows cops.
00:39:09
Speaker
I work with cops. I will rat you out. I will tell them. If I testify against you in court, they will believe me because I am a fire chief.
00:39:20
Speaker
Which I want to point out, we've seen the rest of the movie. He never even attempts to come near the idea of nailing someone to a high treatment form. It's genuinely kind of an odd scene because everything else he just seems like kind of proactive and kind of caring, maybe in a strange way. But this one, he's just like, I'm going to fucking get 16-year-old. Yeah. And it's just like, this is a weird turn. yep Yep. Maybe he read them differently. When he saw that it was David, he's like, maybe I can take a softer touch because I could pick him up in one hand.
00:39:50
Speaker
and so This man has Colonel Gary Coleman. Now, back at the Phillips household, David and his siblings play cards with their babysitter.
00:40:01
Speaker
Once again, we're seeing David getting a story. Sometimes he should be acting like a child. Sometimes he should be acting like the man of the house. Yeah. It was really weird to me where it's just like, why do they have a babysitter? He's like 15. You'd think that just for an hour, they just have him watch everybody. Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
And they do it later. Yeah. But it's all complain about it. It's very weird. Mm-hmm. And you got to figure that's part of why old David's so mixed up. I feel like that's deliberate.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yeah. and thing I think I got to say that I do like about this movie is that it's a black household where both parents are like very successful individuals. Like this is probably a thing, but yeah, like she's a doctor.
00:40:41
Speaker
He is like in charge of construction, it seems. So yeah, I thought that yeah they're doing great. Yeah, for sure. ah Especially because then we see ah the dad show up.
00:40:53
Speaker
in one of the funniest, uh, child sports scenes I've ever seen. oh yeah. Yeah. where He's like, uh, come out outside for a second, David. Listen, you're, you're younger siblings. They can't handle this, but you understand, uh, this is my hot date, Debbie.
00:41:10
Speaker
And, i here's the child support check. Uh, Smell you later. So question here, and I don't know if we'll be able to answer this, but if you pay child support, that would mean that they are divorced, right? Like you don't, you don't get separated and then pay child support, right?
00:41:28
Speaker
Because you aren't legally separated. Right. I think you're right. i also think the movie's just confused. Yeah, because I was like, why? Because there's so much time in the movie where they're just like, we are a normal household. It's like, but you're divorced.
00:41:41
Speaker
And you know that because you're paying child support. But then it turns out they're not divorced. They're just separated. Yeah, no, the movie makes it clear they're separated. Yeah. Maybe he's just paying support because he does want to, you know, be, maybe miss he doesn't say a child support check. He just says, this is your support check.
00:41:58
Speaker
Maybe he's just like, listen, I'm, they're still my kids. I'm still right. Right. Right. Yeah. You know, cause he doesn't have any beef for the kids. there's like here's my share you we we said that ah It was more of a, less of a legal term and more of a description.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. Here's a check for supporting my children, not my child support check. Yeah. And he could have easily just said, can you just give this envelope to your mother? Yeah. It's very important.
00:42:24
Speaker
That probably would have covered it. Imagine you're on a date with a man. He's like, Hey, hold up. I need to make a stop at my wife's house to give a check for the children. just Yeah. and I'm going to bring them out so you can watch me do that.
00:42:38
Speaker
but I'm the type of guy that pays his child support. You could say you you frame it that way. Here's the proof. Here's the check. Okay. signed by me and envelope to David.
00:42:52
Speaker
Good guy. It's insane scene. Cause it's like, Oh, this is scummy. But also this guy has a cool car and he's got a bad bitch behind in the, uh, in the passenger seat. Like, I mean, yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
Dad's doing all right with this single life. Yeah. No insane movie. So David, at this point, he wanders away. And then he uses the child support check as kindling to set a brush filled vacant lot on fire.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Yep. Fuck them up.
00:43:25
Speaker
Fuck you, mom. Fuck you, dad. Yep. Then by an odd coincidence, his mother drives by and sees him staring at a burning vacant lot and decides to call the fire department.
00:43:41
Speaker
When Chief Walker shows up and sees that David is by a fire, he decides to. Yeah. Me thinks this be no coincidence.
00:43:53
Speaker
um So he questions them about it. And mom logic replies. Surely I wouldn't have called the fire department if my own son set the fire.
00:44:04
Speaker
No, because when your children start a fire, you're legally not allowed to call the fire department. yeah No, i want I would let the whole neighborhood burn down to keep my child out of trouble. Yeah, of course.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I know what my children do at all times. Of course. was at this moment when i first watched this movie that i was like, God, like the escalation that had already happened in the first 21 minutes.
00:44:29
Speaker
I was like, please, please let this end with Yafit Kodo shooting David in a hail of gunfire because god wouldn go that way it would have been incredible. Yeah, that would have been a good one.
00:44:44
Speaker
Now, the next day, David gets jammed up in bio class again. And his parents get called. Sorry. Uh, He has a conversation with Mikey about how Yafet came by to threaten Mikey, but he's not saying that the fire chief would come by So David has this incredible line with his, who, what is this, a game show?
00:45:06
Speaker
It's true. i liked I liked Mikey in this. I thought he had some good delivery. And yeah and yo yeah yeah, David also, he crushed him. And it's important to note that Gary in this portion of the film is wearing a jaunty little sweater tied around his neck.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yes, he's looking very preppy. in the movie Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he gets jammed up in bio class and his parents get called in to talk about his troubles ah with the principal. And they end up freaking out on the principal when the principal asks about the state of David's home life. they're like, well, I don't think that's your business.
00:45:44
Speaker
I don't think that's any of your business. Good day, sir. Good day. And then he leaves. Yeah, dad has a good line about, we will not accept the blame for our son not being just fine.
00:45:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, uh... A rare moment where someone stands up for David. yeah Well, I think they're more standing up for themselves. Yeah. i also Now, while all this is going on, David looks out the window and spies a jerry can of gasoline on a passing ground keeper ATV.
00:46:19
Speaker
After getting yelled at by a few adults, he sneaks off and steals the jerry can, hiding it in some shrubbery. He is looking at that gas can like, longingly like yeah his parents are talking the principal during that whole scene and he's just looking out the window like ah hello beautiful yeah boy it's got to be five o'clock somewhere uh so uh that night he sneaks back and uses it to light some bushes on fire
00:46:53
Speaker
David watches as the fire department does their thing. But when chief Walker shows up, he hightails it out of there, but not before Walker sees him bicycling away. Yeah. Stop.
00:47:06
Speaker
David's op sex sucks. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't occur to him as he watched firefighters putting out this massive fire that he started that the fire chief might show up.
00:47:17
Speaker
Yeah. You know, he was just too hypnotized. I also like later the fire chief would be like, why did you run away from that fire, David? It's like, maybe you should ask why he was there. Yeah.
00:47:28
Speaker
Maybe that's a more important question. Yeah. Yoffit, when he catches sight of David you get it again, again, as he's biking off, he just does this exhausted eye roll. Like just, Oh, this fucking kid.
00:47:45
Speaker
Now I got to figure this out. Uh,
00:47:50
Speaker
So the next day, Walker questions David about it. ah David has the perfect story. I think we had an ad break in my version. Oh, that's possible. Yeah, I might have missed that one. Yes.
00:48:00
Speaker
What do we have then? The first ad, and this was just neat to me, was Product 19, which is the Kellogg's breakfast cereal that was marketed with like the kind of hip, isn't it neat that we're not even giving it a real name? We're calling it Product 19.
00:48:13
Speaker
and Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so that was like, probably the best eighties time capsule commercial that got in this whole show. Okay. Yeah.
00:48:24
Speaker
Well, that's a good one. Product. That's the only ad note for this break, but yeah. Okay. Now ah the next day Walker questions, David about it. David has the perfect story. It looks like the papers used to start the fire were flyers from an adult nightclub.
00:48:41
Speaker
We're going child have gotten those. Game, set, match, chief.
00:48:48
Speaker
That night, Mikey has a party at his house. I like this party. I like that it looked like a real teen party and that it had about 14 people there. yeah why The fire chief also talked to David's mom and had a line that is beautiful.
00:49:05
Speaker
It's not normal for him to be setting fires at his age. No. I was wondering about that line, actually. Yeah.
00:49:14
Speaker
this onset a little early. Yeah. ah The party's great. The first thing we see isn't teen debauchery, but Mikey giving tips on how to properly twist an Oreo.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah. This is what you would have been doing at a pre-booze party. We forgot what it's like in a teen movie to have a pre-booze teen party. Although the weird thing is like, Mikey makes reference to how he wants David to get a six-pack for party. yeah.
00:49:41
Speaker
And like we saw Mikey drinking beer earlier, so this really feels like multiple scripts were just kind of like multiple drafts were just stapled together and they never really figured out Mikey's character.
00:49:52
Speaker
Or maybe it's like the kind of party where there was six pack. Yeah. Yeah. right right Yeah. The four coolest dudes split it, but it yeah, it definitely captures that vibe. And I thought that was kind of cool.
00:50:05
Speaker
David and Pam are enjoying a little alone time. doing some sort of weird game where they both hold ah toothpicks in between their lips and try to pass a ring from one toothpick to the other.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah. in ah In a sort of kissing simulacrum. That would probably be a lot better if you didn't also have a toothpick sticking directly in front of your mouth. ah Yeah. Yeah. That's a difficult transition.
00:50:31
Speaker
But they're about to make it. I did like this scene because It is kind of sweet the two of them bonding over having parents who are divorced or separated. it's like, oh, this is the most normal moment in this entire movie. This is the closest thing that feels like it takes place in our reality.
00:50:49
Speaker
And it is the only scene where you feel like there's like a connection between Pam and David. Because there's no reason why anyone would be interested in David. He's completely off-putting. He's clearly prepubescent.
00:51:03
Speaker
Like, it's just not appropriate. Yeah. He's her hero because he fished the worm or frog or whatever it was that Mikey put down the back of her shirt.
00:51:15
Speaker
Out from her shirt. And so that's why he's John Wayne. Yep. Okay. if yeah Good. Good for them. Uh, now, uh, they're big. They get very close to making out.
00:51:28
Speaker
Pam drops the two pick and gives him a pick on the cheek. And it seems like it's about to happen when suddenly Mikey busts into the room with the whole crowd. It's like the opening scene from just friends all over again.
00:51:44
Speaker
David storms off with Mikey half apologizing until David just sets a stack of newspaper on fire. That's at the end of the driveway. as you like like the The funniest.
00:51:55
Speaker
Mikey is the only person that David lights fires in front of. yeah That's why I think his fires are always the funniest because he's always like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, what if I did this? And then lights a stack of shit on fire.
00:52:08
Speaker
I do love this is like the only moment of fire de-escalation in that like the last fire before this was trying to light the school on fire and now he's just like petulantly like I'll light your garbage on fire.
00:52:20
Speaker
i mean you gotta burn what you can where you are. you know and He's an arsonist of opportunity as well as one that plans. That's what makes him so dangerous. ah Mikey calls him a loser as David walks away.
00:52:33
Speaker
it's ah Now David then runs away from home. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Never David runs away at home. Finally, a stress response that isn't lighting things on fire.
00:52:46
Speaker
So that's good. That's cool. But the next day. Attached to his basketball. Yes. Yes. and We are ready to do it. This is where I had a great ad break. because Okay. Because we had Very 80s Dr. Pepper ad themed to Red Riding Hood, where Red is like a hot 20-something roller skates.
00:53:07
Speaker
Okay. John McEnroe for Bic Razors. Okay. And a NBC ad that advertised what was coming up on this week's A-Team and Remington Steel.
00:53:19
Speaker
Ooh. Nice. My dad's cousin is Stephanie Zimblist, star of Remington Steel. Oh, fun. How about that? Yeah, met her at a family reunion once.
00:53:31
Speaker
That's the ad break report. All right, nice. ah The next day, dad finds him sleeping in Pam's family's van. He's wearing, I love that he's wearing a A-line shirt.
00:53:46
Speaker
Yeah, he's wearing a little tank top. Which again, 45 years old. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. he He looks like he should be Pauly from Rocky the way he's wearing this.
00:53:57
Speaker
There should be spaghetti stains on that thing. And yeah, and he's sleeping in a van. ah And his dad's like, let's let's get you out of here. ah In front of Pam, once again, embarrassing him.
00:54:10
Speaker
So they go and they hang out at dad's job site ah where he's building a big fancy house. And they have a ah heart to heart. where David learns that his parents are not getting back together and also that he was an accident.
Family Dynamics and Therapy
00:54:24
Speaker
Yes. I wonder how David's going to respond to this. so In a healthy fashion? Well, I'm sure things will be normal with his mom later that night. Oh, absolutely. That night, Mom is going to go out on a date with a fella named Harry.
00:54:40
Speaker
And as you might expect, David is extremely normal about it. yeah Extremely. This is the sequence where the music is basically horror movie score.
00:54:52
Speaker
And Cicely Tyson seems like she's been hypnotized into going out with this man. Yeah. And David just keeps on yelling, you're not my dad! You're not my dad! i have a dad! You're not my dad!
00:55:05
Speaker
This also the funniest sight gag in the movie when Gary Coleman is trying to close a door on a man twice his size. Yeah. Yeah. that He doesn't put up as much of a fight as he hopes.
00:55:20
Speaker
Now, to add insult to injury, Dad pops by late at night sometime around midnight i don't know what he's doing going to his uh separated wife's house unannounced at midnight that's a creepy move in my book yeah uh when he finds out mom is out on a date with harry he takes it out on david because david like tries to cover his mom and now dad's like so that's how it is huh you lied here old man So your mom can fuck a guy named Harry?
00:55:54
Speaker
That's what's happening? I think he accuses him of scabbing for his mom. He does say scab, yeah. Which is weird weird thing to say to a 15-year-old. Well, you know, that it just goes to show how inconsistently they treat him.
00:56:09
Speaker
That's true. This stresses David out so much that as soon as dad leaves, he goes into his mom's closet and lights all of her clothes on fire.
00:56:20
Speaker
And this fire rapidly spreads. This is a wild sequence, too, of him just burning dresses and chucking them behind him and just doing it for what feels like longer than any other scene in any portion of the movie. This scene looked genuinely dangerous to It did.
00:56:35
Speaker
yeah. It did. Like, Gary is on set with flames. Yeah. and And that shows his dedication to his craft, I think. yeah And at one point there's an explosion of allegedly there's some sort of gas leak also in the room, which is probably bad.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. They probably should have looked into that at some point. Uh, but David realizes that there are other people in the house. And so he runs and he, he wakes up Eileen, but then Eileen succumbs to smoke and collapses to the ground.
00:57:06
Speaker
He gets out Marky. He gets out Fred. Thank goodness. Fred is fine. But when he goes back and gets Eileen, she's lost consciousness. Um, And that night she has to be hospitalized. And that's when we go to a commercial break.
00:57:18
Speaker
Yes. Had a wild commercial for Diet Coke with Martin Mull hitting on women drinking Diet Coke at a restaurant. And it's clear that he's supposed to be a sleaze in this ad, but it's fun.
00:57:30
Speaker
And then it really surprised me. The NBC News Digest presented by Bud Light. This is a thing we definitely don't do anymore where there was just like,
00:57:42
Speaker
a minute long news update of just like quick hit stories in the middle of prime time. And what was interesting was like two of the more interesting headlines were about a bombing in Madrid and a person becoming the fifth person to receive an artificial heart.
00:58:01
Speaker
Wow. and Okay. What a time. Yeah.
00:58:06
Speaker
Now, chief Walker, he shows up at the hospital and he yells at mom and dad. At 1.30 in the morning, he just walks into the hospital room. He's very good.
00:58:17
Speaker
I'm Chief Walker. yeah And ah he yells at them about all this fire stuff. It's really starting to become a problem. We really need to sit down and talk about this. So I want you at my office at 6.30 in the morning, or else I'm going to the police with everything I know about your son setting fires.
00:58:36
Speaker
So... that morning he confronts the family with all the evidence he has of david's arson he tells them that they have to go to therapy fire chief mandated family therapy reluctantly agree after mom initially says can't we just send him to jail yeah she's great and yeah oh she's we're almost there there's the cicely tyson scene that oh Yes. once we Once we get them into therapy, Cicely Tyson really gets to open up and it's great.
00:59:11
Speaker
I also think this may be the point at which she says I should have never covered up for you before. and it's like, yes, mom, you should not have covered for your son who started that fire, especially if you knew you were covering up for your son starting a fire.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah. They were real bad parenting. Yeah. not Not crushing it, my old mom. But she's got a lot going on. She just can't deal with her son starting fires right now.
00:59:38
Speaker
That's right. She's compartmentalizing. So the next thing we know, they're talking to a therapist, Dr. Becker. ah Dr. Becker tells mom and dad that they might need to actually do something before David burns someone to death.
00:59:53
Speaker
And while dad is coming around to this argument, mom finds it, frankly, offensive. Very offensive. She proudly proclaims that two of her children are normal.
01:00:04
Speaker
No one ever talks about them and how good they are. I wrote this down because this is please like, I need this movie to become big, like a cult thing, just so that drag queens can do this monologue and people know what they're doing. Because like first she says the therapist, like, I know how you work.
01:00:25
Speaker
I'm a doctor and we send people to you all the time and they come back to us even worse. But then. ah the horror movie music starts in during the top of her monologue and she's just like, what are you going to do? are you going to go through Oedipus?
01:00:39
Speaker
Maybe he wasn't potty trained properly by his mother. And then the line that you're referencing that is just, is it my fault we have two children who are terrific and one child who happens to be a problem?
01:00:53
Speaker
It's at that moment that David walks out of the room as to just wait in the car until therapy's over. Yeah. Why don't you let her up back? Yeah. She also at one point proudly proclaims, we don't set fires. yeah Yes.
01:01:10
Speaker
So maybe you should be talking to the guy that sets fires, huh? What are we going to talk about that? I thought that's what we were here about. Honestly. She really goes crazy in this scene.
01:01:24
Speaker
No, she's very upset. Yeah, she crushes it. By this point, like we're basically done with fire for the rest of the movie. However, yes that's the bad news this moment, like the movie does not lose any energy because this is the most ridiculous, wonderful thing in the whole movie.
01:01:42
Speaker
and Absolutely. A fantastic scene. And it it raises the question, out of these two, who do you guys think was the worst parent?
01:01:51
Speaker
Probably the mother. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, yeah Dad at least tried to talk to David about, like, you know, ever since caveman time, we've all been fascinated by fire.
01:02:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And I do feel like ah the father is the only character in this movie who undergoes any kind of character change whatsoever. Because at first he's like, I'm just a shitty dad. And then eventually he's like, actually, maybe I should pay attention to what's happening to my son. And maybe um we should try to talk about some of our own stuff away from everybody else so that what's happening to us isn't as clearly affecting our children. And maybe we should talk about that.
01:02:31
Speaker
It's like Bravo, finally an an adult. Yeah. yeah I think Dad is sort of the first one that's sort of amenable to therapy, and he sort of leads the way towards healing. yeah But at at the beginning of the movie, I'd say they're all pretty shitty.
01:02:46
Speaker
No, they're terrible. They're terrible. Dad's just the first one to turn the corner. yeah yeah i mean, he still has another shitty moment towards the end of the movie. but no Oh, no. No one in this is really good. No one in this is really good except for Pam, realistically.
01:03:00
Speaker
And Yafet Kodo, who... Imagine if they did a weekly series just Yafet Kodo harassing child arsonists. I would watch. and yeah And that therapist being like, I know we're here about the boy who sets fires, but let's forget about him for a minute and talk about the wife.
01:03:16
Speaker
It's like, I don't know if I would forget about the boy who starts the fires. I think that. So you're with mom on this I'm not necessarily with mom. I'm just not with that therapist's idea of abandoning the boy who sets fires, who's the whole reason everyone is in that room.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. I just feel like maybe that's going to make his problem even worse than it already is. Well, I do like the idea of the alternate title for this movie being The Boy Who Starts Fires.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. that That's very punchy. Now, the next day. Oh, this is where we had, I think. Oh, we got another one? The next last ad break. which okay had something incredible. I was unaware of the show and now I need to look into it.
01:03:59
Speaker
Scene of the Crime, a one hour mystery special series where it was like basically one hour mini mysteries that you could solve while watching a kind of thing. Okay.
01:04:10
Speaker
Lasted for only one season, but the host Orson Welles. Oh fun. Yeah. Like I need to see if any of that is out there. Cause I'd love to see these Orson Welles hosting segments.
01:04:22
Speaker
Yes, what what was it called? Scene of the Crime. Scene of the Crime. Can we announce it like right at the end of the credits of this movie? because it was just like white It was coming up right next.
01:04:34
Speaker
Because it was just like up next. Scene of the Crime. airplane Oh, that was Monday night. Ah, alright. Now, yeah the next day,
01:04:46
Speaker
Walker swings by to hang out with David.
01:04:50
Speaker
He's given him the tough love. Now he's just given him the love. love So they go for a ride. I'm sorry. ah sorry He makes some comment about how he's seen cases like this before, which makes me just think like, how many teen arsonists has this kid has this town had? Because David talks to a reformed teen arsonist.
01:05:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I'm going to say there's maybe one every other year. onell pop but That's going to be my guess based on population side. Now, uh, they go for a ride and Walker tells him that he too likes starting fires as a boy. But look at him now. Hey, you can turn a corner kid.
01:05:33
Speaker
he also takes David to a burn ward. Yes. Yes. to to show him the potential cost of fire. Shades of shallow hell there.
01:05:46
Speaker
and David is freaked out a kind of normal looking elderly woman. Yeah, that was confusing me. Old people are gross. Yeah, I'm sorry. Also, Yoffit throws out the fun fact that girls don't start fires.
01:05:59
Speaker
Don't know what that is about. There's scientists figuring it out, I think is what he says. Yeah. This never happens. Mm-hmm. Now, he tries to get him an older boy as a mentor, some sort of Pyromaniacs Anonymous sponsor, but it doesn't quite click.
01:06:18
Speaker
ah So David wanders home only to find his parents arguing again in front of their burned out house. He doesn't want to deal with all that. So he goes to play with matches on the bleachers at school.
Resolution and Final Thoughts
01:06:30
Speaker
this scene is so weird because he's just yeah lighting matches and throwing them in Pam is talking to him and there's no indication that he's doing like at some point I'd be like somebody be like let's just put the matches down. yeah Yeah. No one knows how to talk to him about the matches.
01:06:47
Speaker
Sorry the weirdest thing about that also just like this was the weirdest ad. So we have the scene where ah the parents are fighting and David overhears it and dad says like well, he just ain't enough anymore about David.
01:07:03
Speaker
And then we go to commercial, and the first or second ad was for an asthma medicine where it's an asthma sufferer trying to burn out a match, or trying to blow out a match. And was just like, what the fuck is happening now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:17
Speaker
That would be off-putting. Yeah. David kidnapped someone and held that match up to them. Blow it out, you guys. Blow it out, kid. You got asthma. Sorry, we're on the bleachers. Literal Angel Pam is...
01:07:28
Speaker
yeah talking to David as he just throws flaming matches into the air. And who pulls up? Why, it's Chief Walker. I thought you'd come here, kid.
01:07:40
Speaker
Which again, which has this is the amazing line. When the kids see him pull up, Pam says, ah policeman? And David says, worse, a fireman.
01:07:53
Speaker
yeah I hate them because they put out fires, fires that I love. Incredible. Pam, what is your deal with this boy? Get away from him. he is weird. Yeah, you can do better, Pam.
01:08:08
Speaker
ah He tells both of them to buzz off, and he rides off on his bike again. Classic David behavior. yeah He pulls up to his dad's construction site, and he mulls over whether or not he wants to set it on fire.
01:08:22
Speaker
And we get ah flashes of every fire he's ever set. we see you know We experience his train of thought. It was at this point, I was like, is this going to be like our second Chekhov's construction site? like Is that going to actually be a theme? Is there actually enough Chekhov's construction sites in films?
01:08:41
Speaker
oh Yes. Maybe not, actually. I feel like any time you see a construction site early on, you do tend to come back to it. I bet it's true common than you think. That's true. It's like hot air balloons.
01:08:53
Speaker
Greg is talking, of course, about cool as ice. Check out our episode about cool as ice. That is certainly a movie. It's it's an all-timer. ah So David, instead of sending the construction site on fire, he decides to go home and vent at his parents.
01:09:10
Speaker
He's finally, he's going to open up and talk. That's what he's needed to do this whole time. Earlier on, ah Chief Walker explained that kids, they light fires for the same reason they drink alcohol or do drugs, because they want attention.
01:09:25
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Which is certainly that's why i drink alcohol and do drugs. Okay. I need to know how common this actually was. If they are saying like, cause it's only in this last half hour that starts to become the message of like, well, you know, there are so many teen fire bugs because of divorce.
01:09:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah, they definitely tie it directly to the divorce. And I think and also like but they never tie it to being like David doesn't have a healthy stress response. That's clearly the issue, not him wanting attention.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah. Like but no one ever talks about stress for some reason. ah Now, for a moment, you think. that all this venting at his parents might have arsoned them back together somehow.
01:10:11
Speaker
Sorry. When David is, uh, giving them the four one one, he says a line that really stayed with me to the point where I had to pause it. He just says like to his dad, it would be different if you were being mom.
01:10:23
Speaker
And there's a cut to, ah Ron O'Neill who just makes this face where he's just like, I don't even know how to unpack that one. I'm just going to let it stand right now. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I did do a bad job raising you. Um,
01:10:39
Speaker
That's when it hit Owen for Ron. Like, damn, I didn't tell this kid nothing. But instead of ah reigniting their love for one another, he has only reignited their passion for family therapy.
01:10:52
Speaker
They all agree to go back. This is probably a good thing. Yes, that's a that is as happy an ending as we could expect. Maybe go to a different therapist. Yeah. Eileen says, this is dumb. Let's go to bed.
01:11:04
Speaker
She really speaks for all of us. And then we get a brief scene. of Sorry, her last line before, you know, rap on Cicely Tyson. She says, our son, which I rewound that once or twice because I was like, wait, is she saying arson or our son? Interesting.
01:11:25
Speaker
Interesting. they they They should have called the movie Our Son. Our son. With either like a colon or a hyphen between. I don't know. ah We get a brief scene of David mentoring a younger firebug before we cut to Gary Coleman sitting in a classic Hollywood folding chair addressing the camera and saying, Hi, I'm Gary Coleman.
01:11:49
Speaker
Please don't play with fire. Fire is dangerous and bad for you. Once again, I'm Gary Coleman. goodnight. The end. And then we get got a final ad break that included, and they mentioned this over the end credits.
01:12:04
Speaker
On Monday night, Bob who? and Bob Hope salutes the soaps. And then the comedy classic, air or the not classic at that point, it was too young, but the hit comedy spoof airplane. And I need to try to find Bob Hope salutes the soaps, because that sounds like it's interesting. That sounds really good, too. Sounds very subdomic.
01:12:25
Speaker
Well, final thoughts. Five-star ratings. Where did people land in terms of watchability and weirdness? Greg, do you want to start? Sure. ah so as far as weirdness goes, it's not crazy weird, but it is really illogical and insensible and over the top.
01:12:45
Speaker
I think I'm just going to give it a two. it's it's okay right It's right in line with what i Like, if you think of... If you were to write a cliche message movie from the 80s in your brain, you're probably pretty close to what this does.
01:12:59
Speaker
It gets weird because of some of the choices, but it never struck me as being like... that crazy weird uh and i'd say it's pretty watchable i'm gonna give it a four i think uh i could see some people clicking off or changing to another channel but i think uh it holds your interest to a degree so yeah that's where i'm at fair enough i i landed it around a three and a half for watchability i thought it got a little bit redundant sure maybe Maybe one fewer fire could have tightened it up that way. Sure.
01:13:33
Speaker
But it is weird that... It's strange what a slifer, Gary Coleman's character is. You really get no view of his interiority at all. No, no.
01:13:48
Speaker
He has no insight into... Anytime anyone asks him why he's doing this, he's just, I don't know, and just walks away in a very strange way. Usually throwing up his hands.
01:13:59
Speaker
Just a lot of shrugging and like trying to be a despondent teen, which is not like, once again, Gary Coleman really is much better at saying G willikers. That really was his pretty much his only strength.
01:14:12
Speaker
I mean, he was dressed like a guy who would say G willikers. Absolutely. Absolutely. But the that supporting cast obviously crushed it. You know, there are a lot of fun performances in it. Yafet Koto, always love to see Yafet Koto.
01:14:24
Speaker
So that kept it pretty watchable for me. I gave it a four in terms of weirdness. Wow.
Analyzing Film's Themes and Weirdness Factor
01:14:30
Speaker
that It was consistently so funny that every beat of the story would be David getting stressed out, then David lighting a fire and never exploring why.
01:14:42
Speaker
Yeah. real reason. It was just like, yeah, yeah. He just keeps lighting fires, man. Over and over. it was like he was a ghost repeating the same action over and over again.
01:14:56
Speaker
Mike, where did you land in terms of watchability and weirdness? i think let's see. For weirdness, I'm going to say like 3.5 because like... It's all pretty, like, there's nothing that really jumps out as, like, wait, where the fuck did that come from? Yeah.
01:15:09
Speaker
There's no... It's of a piece with itself. Yeah, there's no sudden swerves. Like, there's the weird stuff, like, the therapy monologue, which... Yeah....is still of of a piece of the movie, with the movie, rather.
01:15:23
Speaker
ah Like, there's no, you know, sudden shocking... twist or anything but there's just like enough weird goofy things that happen throughout where it keeps it very watchful i think like even though the last fire is about halfway through the movie the back half still has like enough bizarre things like like the therapy monologue like yafet just popping up wherever he needs to that just like What else do you have for me, movie? I'm going to keep seeing what nonsense comes up. Like, this is the kind of thing, like, I often imagine when watching found footage stuff, like, if I were just at home watching TV and I came across them like this, like, would I call up a friend and like, turn on channel four right now. You got to see this crazy movie.
01:16:07
Speaker
And this is one of those. So I'd give this a nice solid five and watchability. Fair enough. Yeah, we always say that it is very valuable when a movie finds new ways to be weird and new ways to be bad as it progresses. Yeah. you know and And this movie definitely does that.
Review Segment: Critiques & Amusing Reviews
01:16:22
Speaker
Well, those were our reviews. Do you guys want to hear what I found for this week's review review? oh yeah. Please.
01:16:36
Speaker
Review, review. Where we review reviews. You wrote a review of the film, now we're going to review you.
01:16:52
Speaker
Review, review. Review, review.
01:17:19
Speaker
That's right. It's the review review. So I went to IMDB this week and there are only five reviews of playing with fire on there. Okay. But I found a guy on there who was interesting enough that I looked up a couple of his other reviews.
01:17:35
Speaker
I think you'll find out why. Uh, what here's, his name is B Tucker 86. And this is the review he wrote for playing with fire. He gave it, he did not give it a rating and he posted it on January 2nd, 2004, which leads me to believe that he just remembered this movie.
01:17:56
Speaker
People have said that this film is unintentionally hilarious and preachy. Just another disease of the week TV film. This one with Gary Coleman as a teenage arsonist.
01:18:07
Speaker
There's nothing funny about pyromania. A few years ago, Malcolm X's widow, Betty Shabazz, was burned to death in an apartment fire that her young grandson set.
01:18:20
Speaker
It's just that Gary Coleman was such a sucky actor. I wish there was a nice way to say this, but there is not. I am sorry about the terrible health problems that he has had to live with all his life. His kidney condition and treatment stunted his growth.
01:18:35
Speaker
It's just a little bit of him goes a very long way. I admit I like to watch different strokes as a kid, but what is it that the poet said? As a man, I put away childish things.
01:18:48
Speaker
What I remember about this film is how stupid Coleman's parents were. They didn't even realize what an evil little shit he was. It's like he could have burned the house down and they wouldn't have said boo.
01:19:00
Speaker
Cicely Tyson and Yafet Kodo as a fire chief who tries to help Coleman give Abel support, and Coleman makes a nice PSA at the end about arson. But the film is really unintentionally funny in a lot of ways.
01:19:12
Speaker
I remember when it first showed on NBC, they had one of those parental discretion advised warnings at the beginning, and I couldn't understand why after seeing it.
01:19:22
Speaker
So it turns out he's been writing a lot of reviews and he's still writing them to this day. Sorry, here initially he said there's nothing funny about this movie it's nothing funny about arson.
01:19:34
Speaker
But by the end, he's like, there's a lot of unintentionally funny stuff in it. Yeah. Yes. He's very inconsistent. Now, here's his review for Satan's Waitin'. 10 out of 10.
01:19:46
Speaker
Titled, Disturbing. Warning, spoilers. I have so many fond memories of Saturday mornings watching Bugs Bunny and Friends. It's incredible that Mel Blanc did all those voices. What a talent!
01:20:00
Speaker
I remember laughing at them, but there was one that really scared me. And this was where Sylvester is chasing Tweety and dies and literally goes to hell where he meets old scratch in the form of a bulldog who informs him what a bad pussycat he's been.
01:20:20
Speaker
After all, he has spent his earthly existence chasing and tormenting this helpless little bird. He's even given a chance to go back because he has nine lives, but keeps losing them.
01:20:31
Speaker
This cartoon might really disturb kids even today. And I noticed that in some versions, they cut out the very end while Sylvester locks himself in a bank vault because he has one life left and loses it and goes back to hell when two robbers blow up the vault.
01:20:47
Speaker
I prefer cartoons with a lighter touch.
01:20:51
Speaker
Okay. To be clear, Satan's Waiting is the name of a Looney Tunes cartoon. Yes. He also he was reviewing. He gave it a 10 out of 10, right? He gave it a 10 out of 10.
01:21:04
Speaker
I'm not quite sure he knows what ratings are for. Okay. Interesting. He also rated just a lot of individual episodes of television. And I want you to know that he wrote this review.
01:21:17
Speaker
Well, hang on. I'll read the review. Then I'll tell you the date of when he wrote it. Okay. Okay. Unsolved Mysteries, episode 5 or episode 5.12. So I'm using season 5, episode 12. Sure.
01:21:31
Speaker
Title Matthew McConaughey's first role. Unsolved Mysteries was one of my favorite shows when I was in college and I never missed an episode. Robert Stack was the master storyteller and I always enjoyed it when they talked about historical mysteries like what happened to Amelia Earhart and those planes that disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle.
01:21:52
Speaker
Who would have ever guessed that Matthew McConaughey would have gotten his start on this show playing a murder victim? Larry Dickens was a Marine who was shot and killed by Edward Harold Bell in 1978 in Texas.
01:22:05
Speaker
Bell shot Dickens after Dickens tried to stop him from exposing himself in front of a bunch of kids. Bell shot Dickens in the head with a hunting rifle while his horrified mother watched. Bell was at large for 14 years, but finally captured due to this show.
01:22:19
Speaker
He confessed to other murders and died in prison five years ago. This was one episode I could only watch once because of the recreation of Dickens murder was so upsetting. Bell should have been executed.
01:22:30
Speaker
He was absolute scum, a monster in human form. When do you think he wrote that? 9-11. Not a bad guess, Greg? No idea.
01:22:41
Speaker
Not a bad guess either. January 2025. What? oh of which
01:22:51
Speaker
So but very interesting, man. Yeah. ah You found a guy. i' there And trust me, this guy, if you want to check out his TV reviews, he's written a lot of them.
01:23:05
Speaker
Okay. A lot of them for ah not ah for a show. i think it was called like Room 226, a like high school sitcom from the 70s. Yeah. He reviewed like at least 20 episodes of that.
01:23:18
Speaker
I'm glad somebody did. You guys want to play a little This Guy Played That Guy? yeah. yeah
01:23:32
Speaker
This guy played
'This Guy Played That Guy' Game
01:23:34
Speaker
that guy. Yeah! This guy played that guy. This guy played that guy. a fair...
01:23:51
Speaker
All right, so we're doing a little This Guy Played That Guy, and we're doing it with the made-for-TV movies of Yafet Kodo. So this is going to be a buzz-in game. You'll buzz in by saying your own name, and I will give you the title, the year the film came out, and a brief description, and then three characters that were in the film.
01:24:14
Speaker
I want you to tell me which one was played by Yafet Kodo. Okay. Everybody understand? Yep. Yep. All right, here we go. Question number one. Chrome Soldiers, 1992.
01:24:27
Speaker
Five ex-soldiers go to a small town in Oregon to help a friend investigate the murder of his brother. Did Yafet Kodo play Sheriff Blackwell, Perry Beach, or Jim Flash Gordon?
01:24:45
Speaker
Michael. Michael? ah Jim... beach was it but well you had perry beach and you had jimmy perry beach you are correct uh jim flash gordon one of the rare uh characters that is named after two comic book characters how about that and he was played by gary bucey question number two wow stiletto dance oh easy
01:25:17
Speaker
Two undercover police officers must try to prevent a multi-million dollar nuclear arms deal among several mob factions. Hmm. Did Yafet Kota play Captain Rick Sands, Detective Kit Adrian, or Detective Jay Flowers?
01:25:35
Speaker
Greg? Greg? What was the first one again? Captain Rick Sands. Yes, Rick Sands. You are correct. Asked and answered.
01:25:46
Speaker
We're all tied up. Question number three.
01:25:51
Speaker
Rage 1980. Oh, no. In an attempt to be rehabilitated, a rapist goes to therapy while in prison. The tagline of this film is the worst tagline I've ever heard in my life.
01:26:03
Speaker
Oh, it is. Rage dares to look at things from the rapist's viewpoint. Oh. Yeah. That's not good. That's not good. I don't want to watch that movie. No, thank you. nope ah Did Yafet Kodo play?
01:26:16
Speaker
This is a fun crime that we watch. We don't need to watch that one. no No, no. Arson is, I'd much rather see things from the point of view of an arsonist. Yeah. Did Yafet Kodo play Ernie, Ray, or Bo?
01:26:32
Speaker
Greg? Greg? Bo.
01:26:37
Speaker
I'm sorry, Bo was played by Tom Noonan. going to say Ray.
01:26:43
Speaker
No, I'm sorry. Ray was played by Craig T. Nelson. Wow. Good for Craig T. Question number four. I guess. Yeah, I mean, he was getting some work.
01:26:56
Speaker
and's some Working with some good people. rap us in that We'll see who he is. Neither of them. the The rapist was played by a guy that played Not one of the Dukes of Hazzard.
01:27:08
Speaker
David Soul, I think his name was. Oh, wasn't he Miami Vice? No. No. but he was But he was some sort of show like that. He was a famous TV actor. David Soul.
01:27:21
Speaker
Oh, he was Hutch on Starsky and Hutch. Hutch, that's what it was. He later starred in ah the ill-fated ah tv version of Casablanca.
01:27:33
Speaker
As Rick. That's a rough ask. Good for him. Yeah, no one was go to come out of that particular ask alive. Question number four. The corpse had a familiar face. 1994. Nice. ninety four 94? 1994. Wow.
01:27:50
Speaker
wow A tough Miami criminal journalist investigates the disappearance of a 16-year-old. Did Yafet Koto play Detective Harry Lindstrom?
01:28:02
Speaker
Ben Nicholson or detective Martin Talbot. Michael, I'm to say Talbot.
01:28:10
Speaker
You're correct.
01:28:14
Speaker
Question number five, almost blue. 1993. A young jazz saxophonist blames himself for his wife's death.
01:28:26
Speaker
When he finds himself a new love, he finds himself also in a situation very reminiscent of his first wife's death. Did Yafet Kodo play Terry, Charles, or Morris?
01:28:42
Speaker
Greg? Greg. Terry. God, you guys are crushing it today. I don't know what it is, but for some reason, ah it makes sense somehow.
01:28:55
Speaker
No, Morris was Michael Madsen and Charles was Garrett Morris. Oh. Question number six. Prime Target, 1989. An and NYPD detective looks into the death of several police women and discovers that she is to be the killer's next victim.
01:29:18
Speaker
Did Yafet Kodo play Judge Ralph Manza? Gilmore Brown or Peter Armitage? Michael.
01:29:29
Speaker
Gilbert Brown.
01:29:33
Speaker
Gilmore Brown is correct. I'll give you that one. ah Judge Ralph Manza was, of course, played by Joseph Bologna and Peter Armitage, David Soule. David Soule back again. He's back again.
01:29:46
Speaker
Question number seven. Harem, 1986. Harem.
01:29:51
Speaker
A young woman from Victorian England is visiting her fiance in Arabia when she is kidnapped and sold into the harem of the Sultan. Did Yafet Kodo play Forest, Sultan Hassan, or Agha Kislar?
01:30:08
Speaker
Michael, he's got to be the Sultan, right?
01:30:12
Speaker
No, the Sultan was Omar Sharif. Perhaps the only one that could take that from him. What was the third person's name? Agha Kiskar. Let's try that.
01:30:24
Speaker
That's correct. Tied up again. Forrest was, of course, played by Julian Sands. Man, you know... They often say we used to make things in this country and like having three pretty well-known names in something that stupid that was was airing on a TV on TV one night.
01:30:42
Speaker
Like now they'll just be dumped in Netflix. But no, that sounds like it would be an event. Yeah. Yeah. I'd watch then. Question number eight badge of the assassin 1985. Oh, yeah.
01:30:54
Speaker
ah yeah three black revolutionaries gunned down two and NYPD officers. And now an ADA and a detective will team up to chase them from New York to Los Angeles to New Orleans, the Big Easy.
01:31:08
Speaker
Did Yafet Koto play Detective Bill Butler, Robert K. Tenenbaum, or Detective Cliff Fenton?
01:31:18
Speaker
This little tricky. Greg. yeah Greg? Tenenbaum.
01:31:27
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. i Robert K. Tenenbaum was played by James Woods. ah Who are these names again? the last one like the Detective Bill Butler or Detective Cliff Fenton?
01:31:41
Speaker
oh Cliff Fenton.
01:31:45
Speaker
You've got it. wow Okay. Greg, you're down by one point. You have a chance to tie it up. Okay. I thought that was the last question. I had no sold myself with the fact that I was a loser again. And that's fine.
01:31:58
Speaker
No, it's fine. But question number nine is your chance to maybe turn things around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This one I definitely want to watch. The Park is Mine, 1985. Vietnam vietnam veteran Mitch wants to raise awareness of how veterans and the disabled are overlooked.
01:32:16
Speaker
So he takes Central Park hostage for 72 hours armed with a gun. That's a lot of area to take hostage. With one guy. Well, you know, you you got you got one guy running around there with a gun shooting people. That's fair. You're probably just going to stay out of Central Park as a whole. yeah If he's taking it hostage, that implies like there are people that he's taking it hostage. I think what they mean i think going to have to watch it to find figured out. Future episode.
01:32:43
Speaker
Yep. Did Yafet Kodo play Mitch? Eubanks or Dicks? Michael. Oh, I'll defer Craig.
01:32:54
Speaker
but
01:32:57
Speaker
Dicks.
01:33:01
Speaker
Eubanks.
01:33:04
Speaker
Michael, adding insult to injury. It was a good game. We played a good game. again The guy that played Mitch, ah who held Central Park hostage, Tommy Lee Jones. What?
01:33:16
Speaker
He could hold Central Park hostage. shit. Yeah, now it all makes sense, right? yeah Now you want to watch The Park is Mine. I am searching YouTube automatically. Well, it's
Batty Awards
01:33:28
Speaker
time for the Batty Awards.
01:33:36
Speaker
Now you're messing with me.
01:33:40
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:33:53
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees.
01:34:02
Speaker
That's right, it's the Batty Awards. The only award show that is happening right now on the podcast. Greg, do you have a batty award? I do. ah This goes to something that plays in the background. There's this really beautiful moment where it's family drama. Something has happened and they cut to David and the TV's been on the whole time. And in the background, you just hear the TV go, oh, I'm so mad. And it was just like, yes, perfect. Absolutely perfect.
01:34:31
Speaker
100% perfect. Loved it. Beautiful. ah Michael, what about you? do you have a batty award? Well, I have a preemptive Batty Award for The Park Is Mine because I found it on YouTube. So we'll probably have to that. And also, if you look at the poster, it's Tommy Lee Jones in camouflage, like a little bit of a facial camouflage, and a New York Yankees hat with men's sunglasses.
01:34:57
Speaker
So I'm all in on that nonsense. But for this movie, I'm going to give a joint Batty Award to two early lines of dialogue that I found funny because it's just like, funny phrases.
01:35:09
Speaker
The science teacher talking about how we'll now return to our amoeba of the day. Yes. And ah David's dad talking about how they need to get to Playland so they can see the character parade.
01:35:23
Speaker
Yes. Playland's famous character parade. Yes. You don't want to miss Sorry. Character parade just reminds me when we, when my wife and I were in Paris and we went to Disneyland Paris,
01:35:35
Speaker
We overheard this English family. And it was so funny to hear like the usual Disney ridiculous like parade names being said by an English family. Because it was like, no, honey, that's Disney stars on parade.
01:35:49
Speaker
We want dream and shine brighter.
01:35:56
Speaker
Brutal stuff. No offense to you, English. ah I'm giving out my Batty Award to ah favorite accessory, and that's Mikey's Headband.
01:36:09
Speaker
1985, you could just be a guy walking around wearing a headband tied around your head. That's good. We got to bring that back. It's true. I right? Yeah. Greg, I think you're the you should kick it off.
01:36:20
Speaker
I was going say, I might actually look pretty good in a headband, actually. Yeah, I think you would i think it would look great. Listeners, if you think it would look great, write in to your favorite bad movie pod at gmail.com and Greg will mail you a Polaroid of himself wearing a headband.
01:36:37
Speaker
Okay. I demand it. Buy a Polaroid camera. Okay. Supplies are limited. i've all they are I've always wanted a good excuse.
01:36:50
Speaker
Michael, thank you so much for joining us this week. Do you have anything that you want to plug? Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad that I got to talk about this thing because as I said, like I saw this in mid January and it's, we're recording mid May now.
01:37:06
Speaker
So I've been sitting on this for four months, just being like, ah I can't wait to get this out in the world because it's so insane. I guess that's how I felt when I found out that even Yvonne Naj was Heidi Fleiss's boyfriend. like what yeah I'd also like to add, I watched this on mother's day, which is really interesting for that scene in therapy. Yeah.
01:37:28
Speaker
That's a lot to unpack. It was. Yeah. Um, yeah um My only plug right now is that last year i made a mixtape that is on YouTube called Sitcoms that Primetime Forgot. It is a two hour or so mix of intros to sitcoms that failed and have been basically forgotten by the public.
01:37:51
Speaker
I'm in the process right now of working on its companion piece, Dramas that Primetime Forgot, which will come out sometime this summer fall. TBD, TBD. I'll keep an eye out for sometime in 2027. Hopefully we can get TV movies that time forgot. oh my Just title cards, I think, would be perfect.
01:38:10
Speaker
Oh, here's the thing. I saw someone make a mix of the title cards, just the ah Hallmark, Lifetime, Tubi, etc. Original movies for Christmas 2024. And it was only like 15 minutes, but by minute seven, i had already disassociated because I'm just seeing like, oh, so much of this is just like off the shelf stock footage with like really basic fonts and like fake Mariah Carey. Like it was like, it broke my brain a little bit in a way that I'm not used to when I'm doing like in a different way, rather than like something like this.
01:38:49
Speaker
And especially with title cards, they're coming so fast and furious. Exactly. With a full TV show intros, you at least have like a little bit of time to breathe and be like, okay, yeah, all right. That's a name. I recognize that name.
01:39:02
Speaker
Yeah. You can find me on the Blue Sky at Future Has Been, which is where any info about that project will show up. Beautiful. Give Michael a follow. He's a great dude. Thank you so much for coming this week. thank listeners If you're still listening, this show is run long. So I'm just going to hit you up with the give us that five stars.
01:39:19
Speaker
Give us a follow. ah Don't forget to find the stuff in our link tree. Shoot me an email if you want to join the discord. We're watching movies once a month. We're watching the oval every week.
01:39:31
Speaker
Come hang out. It's always a blast. And ah just to send you off, I've got the only song that we could use to close out the episode. So ah until next week, be good.
01:39:43
Speaker
Goodbye. Goodbye.
01:39:51
Speaker
I mean, it's hacky, but ah come on. I mean, you don't need to overthink it. If you see a nail, you get a hammer, right?
01:40:02
Speaker
You see a garbage can full of rags, just set it on fire. yeah