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Episode 82: North featuring Lucy Valentine
104 Plays16 days ago
Lucy Valentine, host of the podcasts Boonta Vista and Savant Garde, is in the guest seat today and we’re excited to talk to her because she’s brought North (1994). This Rob Reiner adaption of a young adult book stars Elijah Wood, Bruce Willis and too many others to list. Despite all that talent on screen, the film did not land well, famously inspiring Roger Ebert’s hatred. It’s a film for the neglected child in all of us while being full of adult humor and some very bizarre choices. All in all, it got us all talking and inspired many strong reactions, so tune in!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:41
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. It's the only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much? We're your hosts, and I'm winning so much I must be Winchell, but I'm actually Chris Anderson.
00:01:00
Speaker
And with me, as always, i have the man who they all called Joey Fingers back in college, Mr. Greg Bossy. Hi, Chris. Hello. It's good to be here, actually. Hi. it's It's good to see you, Greg. How are you holding up?
00:01:14
Speaker
i'm I'm hanging in there. We had our first snow today, so that was intriguing. Oh, yeah. Great day to be indoors. How are you? We had a pretty nasty cold snap, but I got tomorrow off for Veterans Day. o We're all veterans of the psychic wars here in America, so I think we should all celebrate ourselves.
00:01:33
Speaker
But forgetting that, we do also have with us ah my own personal Mrs. Ho, my wife, Anna Anderson. i Why did I know I was going to be Ho?
00:01:45
Speaker
ah Because she was of ah the most charming lady character in the film, and you were once described as a lady? Yeah, no, I love Laura and Tom. Well, I'm glad to hear it. How are you holding up, my dove?
00:01:56
Speaker
I'm doing great. Yes. Doing great. That's what we're talking about, listeners. I'm doing great because we have a very special guest with us, the host of Buntavista and SavantGarde.
Special Guests and Movie Regrets
00:02:09
Speaker
But she's left her podcast behind today, so we're trying to convince her to join our happy family. She's from the Southern Hemisphere, but she's our own personal north. It's Lucy Valentine. Hi, Lucy. Hey, I feel immediately apologetic for inflicting the psychic damage of this film onto all of you. It's all right. yeah We've built up some thick scabs. ah Oh, I bet.
00:02:34
Speaker
ah But this was a wild picture. I have not seen this one before. Listeners, we're talking about North this week. If you haven't seen the feature length film North, here's a brief summary to hold in your mind. year old boy.
00:02:58
Speaker
emancipates himself from his parents and begins a whirlwind worldwide search for new parents and inspires kid revolution
00:03:10
Speaker
yeah it was the revolution part that surprised me to be honest that was a weird b-plot yeah yeah I kind of forgotten about this, like the whole background B plot that's going on with the huge kid revolution.
00:03:26
Speaker
it was very over the top. Lucy, How did you come to know North? What's your background
Personal Connections to 'North'
00:03:33
Speaker
North? All right. So North was my favorite movie as a kid for quite a long time. I remember very vividly setting my VHS player to record it off the TV. I must have been 10 or 11. And I think it was just after a Fellowship of the Ring had come out.
00:03:48
Speaker
And I was obsessed with Elijah Wood. I was like 10 or 11 years old and I was like, wow, that's my boyfriend. Okay. So I saw that there was this movie on TV. And if you're under 30, you used to be able to ah set your VHS to record things at a certain time. so ah It was not easy.
00:04:05
Speaker
It wasn't. But I bet my mom still has a tape of North sitting around the house somewhere. And I just, I loved this so much. I used to watch it so frequently. I've probably seen this film a hundred times.
00:04:18
Speaker
i I could see this being the type of movie that someone could imprint on. And I could definitely see Elijah Wood being like a young lady's like first crush. He has those big steely blue eyes. You know, it makes perfect sense. I hadn't thought about it at all that way when I watched it, but.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, I had no idea until recently how hated this movie. So I learned very recently that this is such a widely like reviled film that Roger Ebert famously hated so much. This was news to me. I was like, really? North? Yeah.
00:04:52
Speaker
if Yeah, I had always heard of it as like this famous flop, but I had never heard anything about it that made it sound like it was an interesting flop. Like it just sounded like, oh, it was just some kids movie that was like a little overambitious or something. yeah And it's ah it is that, but it is also more than that, I think. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I'm here to defend it. I'm going to defend North. I'm not going to defend the ah the racial politics of North. but I'll defend the rest of it. Well, ah Greg, had you seen this one before?
00:05:25
Speaker
Yes, I had seen this one before. i had seen it twice before. Twice? Yes, that will become important in this story that I'm about to tell. So for me...
00:05:37
Speaker
Me and Elijah Wood are basically the same age by, like, weeks. And we more or less had the same hair. and so I had... And he struck me as, like, a small, little, like, nice little actor. And so he he I really... ah I really connected a lot with him in a sense. Like as a child, was like, yeah, Elijah Wood is like me in a way. And so when North came out, I didn't see it in the theater, but I remember everybody hated it.
00:06:10
Speaker
And I was like, I bet it's not that bad. I'm going to check it out for myself. And so I rented the thing and I watched it and I was like, I loved it. I'm going to watch it twice. It's so good. And so I like watched it a second time. And I always remembered enjoying it and like connecting with it.
00:06:27
Speaker
But all that I could remember from it was the fiddler on the roof joke. Yeah. And that makes sense that I remember that because I had just started getting into acting at this time. And so it was like, oh, it's like a studious kid who's ah well, I'll get into that one second here. Yeah.
00:06:44
Speaker
What I remember most was just the MSG joke. It was an MSG joke, and I don't remember why I remember that joke, but I did, and I remember even as a child thinking, I don't think MSG will calm him down, actually. i don't think that's going to work.
00:07:01
Speaker
ah Which is weird to have that reaction as a child. But ah watching it again, I realized that I really connected to this movie so much because he looked a lot like me and no one in my family would talk to me.
00:07:13
Speaker
So this was a real, I really glommed on to this movie quite a bit as a child and yet chose to remember none of it. And I think that came out in the rewatching.
Exploring 'North': Background and Critiques
00:07:25
Speaker
But I did find that while I had forgotten a lot of it, it was like when I watched um Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead, it felt like the movie was inside of me and was kind of leaping out.
00:07:37
Speaker
It was just weird how much I was just like, oh, this joke. I remember this. I only saw it twice, but it really left it really left an impression in this brain. Okay, that's really interesting. I was very excited to revisit this one and see what I thought about it now. And my opinion has changed drastically.
00:07:59
Speaker
Fair enough. Anna, had you seen this one? I had not. I think I was probably a little too old when it came out. That makes sense. You're the oldest of the bunch here. Yeah.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i had I had not seen it. ah But what I had done before I sat down to watch this time is I did a bunch of research. You guys want to hear about the research I put into North?
00:08:25
Speaker
Yes. Please. who Yes.
00:08:41
Speaker
I wish I had some context about the background of the film. Script director, actors on set. What was going on on screen?
00:08:51
Speaker
wanna hear some details. Gossips can do all that shit. Can't imagine all the time.
00:09:09
Speaker
All right, so North came out July 22nd, 1994.
00:09:14
Speaker
Director Rob Reiner. and where I got three taglines here. Tagline number one. North's hopping mad with his parents, and now he's off on a worldwide adventure. Don't know about that one.
00:09:30
Speaker
That makes him sound like a rabbit. He must have been in the bunny suit. Yeah, that would make sense. That's the only way that makes sense. You never hear someone described as Hop and Rad. Wait, it came out Yeah.
00:09:43
Speaker
So why does it take place at Easter? Well, only that first scene takes place at Easter. Well, I guess since the movie a dream, it all takes place at Easter, but who I don't know. Anyway, tagline number two. I don't know why that bothers me so much.
00:09:59
Speaker
If that's the most illogical thing you can find in this movie, my dad, you are overlooking quite a bit. ah ever wonder what your life would be like with different parents?
00:10:11
Speaker
A boy named North did. yeah Okay. Okay. It does at least help clarify that North is not a direction, but a character. Right. Right. Yes.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that tagline did it's Greg, it's Stefa frequent guest. Stefa Noons had said that she remembers that. really liking this movie. She's like, I really liked this movie, but I also really hated my parents.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. That's the common thread of enjoying this. Like, I think because I saw it, maybe because I saw it as a child and I was like, wow, he is just like me. It's like, it's a child's fantasy of like, yeah, definitely goingnna stick it to my parents. Yeah.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. and I think that's kind of a rarity in children's media, actually. Definitely. Definitely. For obvious reasons, but yeah. Yeah, to me, it mostly reminded me of like Roald Dahl in that way, in that like adults were all kind of cruel and stupid. Yeah. Yeah. ah Tagline number three, a family comedy that appeals to the child in everyone.
00:11:21
Speaker
Really generic. Yeah. That's a snoozer. All right. So you guys ever hear somebody named Alan Zweibel?
00:11:34
Speaker
I mean, I have at this point that because I've watched this movie and I've been doing some research. Touche, Greg, touche. and So he was a comedy writer. ah He graduated the University of Buffalo and then started selling jokes to stand-up comedians for $7 piece. Nice. Nice.
00:11:53
Speaker
nice Nice work if you can get it. And then I'm building him a portfolio of allegedly 1,100 jokes, or I guess almost $8,000 worth, that he was able to bring to Lorne Michaels ah when Lorne Michaels was starting Saturday night Live. He was one of the first writers on Saturday Live.
00:12:10
Speaker
Oh. Okay. Characters that he created that you might be familiar with are ah Roseanne, Roseanne Adana. Yeah. Okay. And the one that maybe you can see a little bit of the roots of in North, he created ah the Samurai.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah. Now that all makes a lot of sense now. Yeah. ah So he left in 1980. His next big gig was as the co-creator of the It's Gary Shandling show in 1986. Oh.
00:12:41
Speaker
Okay. My parents were big fans of that, but I know a lot of people were. was interested in it at the age of seven. Yeah, I feel like there are a lot of like comedy nerds that are into Gary Shandling, and I never like could get over the hump.
00:12:57
Speaker
But in between then, he wrote a YA novel called North. And ah just as a side note, Lucy, I wanted to make sure that you know that later on he would go on to write one episode of monk I did not know that. That's crazy.
00:13:14
Speaker
he wrote season six, episode seven, Mr. Monk and the Daredevil. Wow. Haven't seen it yet. I'll report back. Yeah, you've got a ways to go before you hit it, but I'll be listening.
00:13:27
Speaker
ah So at at somewhere, at some point in this career, he became friends with ah Rob Reiner. They both had worked with Steve Martin on different occasions. So maybe that's like an action or maybe it's just a comedy was a small world at this point. don't know.
00:13:42
Speaker
But he I do know that he sent a galley of his book north to Rob Reiner, hoping that he could get a quote for the Dusk Jacket. And Reiner liked the book so much that he optioned it. He wanted to to adapt it.
00:13:58
Speaker
Interesting. Now, this was right around when Reiner did This is Spinal Tap, which was his breakout as a director. And from there, he would go on to have a massive string of hits after his sophomore slump of The Sure Thing, a movie where John Cusack drives across the country to get laid.
00:14:20
Speaker
i've Never seen it. But he also did, ah in order after that, Stand By Me, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, and A Few Good Men.
00:14:35
Speaker
o Wow. It's just crazy that this is a Rob Reiner film. That's just so hated. It's like one of the best directors of all time. like yeah Yeah. Like just a solid craftsman, if nothing else. Like, I don't think any of these are a lot of people's favorite movies, but no one can say that they're bad movies. Yeah, they're all like good movies.
00:14:55
Speaker
I mean, Princess Bride. Really, really good movie. Yeah. that's so there are Some of them are people's favorite movies. Yeah. Yeah. He's made several people's favorite. Absolutely. ah Now, during this run, he became one of the founders of Castle Rock Entertainment, the production company, which meant now he could write his own checks for his own projects.
00:15:16
Speaker
So now he's like, now I can write the check for North. Green light to me. that Now, ah because of that money and his prior success, he was able to get a lot of big names on board. yeah He was able to get ah Jason Alexander and Julia Louis-Dreyfus in part because Seinfeld was produced by Castle Rock Entertainment.
00:15:39
Speaker
So we already had that working relationship with them. He was able to get Bruce Willis on board because he was married to Demi Moore and Demi Moore vouched for Reiner after they had worked together on A Few Good Men.
00:15:50
Speaker
room Okay. And then he rounded out his cast with Dan Aykroyd, John Lovitz, Reba McIntyre, Abe Vigoda, Alan Arkin, Kathy Bates, Graham Green, Richard Belzer, Ben Stein, John Ritter, and the woman that played Corky on Murphy Brown, whose name I've forgotten.
00:16:13
Speaker
Faith Ford. Thank you. And also before I'm looking at the North cast on ah the other day. Yes. Yes. The cast is amazing. Like the guest stars are out of control. Yeah.
00:16:28
Speaker
You've even got little Scarlett Johansson at the end. I didn't know that. I i didn't catch that. um It's got so many stars in it that the credits can't pick one to bill first. They have to put them alphabetically, which is not something you typically see.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The closing credits are in order of appearance in order to also avoid that problem. Yeah. ah It also has Lauren Tom in there, who was the voice of Amy on Futurama.
00:16:54
Speaker
Oh, wow. And Kevin's mom on supernatural. Yes. yeah
00:17:03
Speaker
Also, I should mention. Bummer alarm. Bummer alarm. This next bit is kind of a bummer.
00:17:14
Speaker
It's the only film appearance of Phil Hartman's wife slash murderer, Bryn Hartman. Oh, my God. Who is she? She plays a waitress in one scene. Wow.
00:17:26
Speaker
That is rumor. Yeah. and But such an odd piece of trivia. and yeah and Now, I think more interesting than who he was able to get in the film is who turned him down.
00:17:38
Speaker
that we have a record of anyway. And I was able to find out why for a couple of them.
Casting Rejections and Ebert's Review
00:17:43
Speaker
So you wanted John Candy to play Pa Tex, but John Candy thought the script was too racist.
00:17:49
Speaker
come Good call, John. Yeah. Yeah. Good call. Robin Williams was already committed to Mrs. Doubtfire. Understandable. Good call.
00:18:02
Speaker
For the Dan, he was thinking maybe Albert Brooks, but Albert Brooks was already working on the scout. Yeah. Everybody loves the scout. Yeah. The movie where he helps Brendan Fraser work through his baseball related trauma.
00:18:18
Speaker
ah Yeah. Weird movie, but it does have a young Brendan Fraser in it. So it's not all bad for the Alaskan father or our Alaskan grandfather. First, he went to his own father, Carl Reiner, but he was busy directing fatal instinct. Oh my God. Yes.
00:18:36
Speaker
I watched that again recently and enjoyed myself. It's not that great, but I still really enjoyed myself. Okay. Fair enough. Uh, then he went to his father's best friend, Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks did not like the script.
00:18:51
Speaker
And yeah. yeah Then he went to Peter Falk, his old, uh, star from the princess bride. Peter Falk also did not like the script. Wow. And he's still like, okay. Okay. Yeah, all of his friends are just like, this is bad, actually. Just one more question. Why do you like this script?
00:19:12
Speaker
I think Mel Brooks is an idiot when it comes to filmmaking. I know what's up ah It turns out audiences and critics didn't like it either. It only took in $12 million dollars on a $40 million dollars budget, which for a smaller studio like Castle Rock, that that's a hit.
00:19:31
Speaker
Yeah. not Not a box office hit, a hit to your bank book, I suppose. And it only got 14% from critics on the old Tomatomometer.
00:19:41
Speaker
Tomatometer. Tomometer.
00:19:45
Speaker
ah It inspired Roger Ebert's most famous review, which began, and I quote, I hated this movie. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated this movie.
00:20:00
Speaker
Hated it. Hated every simpering, stupid, vacant, audience-insulting moment of it. I hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. I hated the implicit insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.
00:20:15
Speaker
And he named his 2000 book of bad reviews after this review. His book was called I Hated, Hated, Hated This Movie. It's good book. It's shocking to me. this like I mean, Roger Ebert hated Gladiator as well. So, you know, take that with a grain of salt. but It's true. He's not perfect.
00:20:31
Speaker
I also, went I went on Letterboxd the other day because I was like, oh, everyone's crazy except me. Everyone's stupid except me. And then I realized even all my friends had rated this movie like half a star. So I had a real moment. I like, hmm, am I wrong? real Real Kaiser Soze all sudden. Yeah, it really got me.
00:20:53
Speaker
I mean, I did have several people come out and defend it to me online when I had posted that I had watched it. They're like, no, I loved this movie as a kid. They're out there. They're few and far between, but they're at.
00:21:05
Speaker
ah Other family films of 1994, just to see what it was competing against. First, you got three from Macaulay Culkin, really overstretching himself at this point. You got Richie Rich, The Pagemaster, and Getting Even with Dad.
00:21:21
Speaker
o forgot about Getting Even with Dad. Yeah, three lesser Macs at that. ah For the sports fans, you got Angels in the Outfield, which I sort of remember. Little Big League, which I definitely do not remember.
00:21:39
Speaker
And D2, the Mighty Ducks, I think where they went to the international hockey competition. That all sounds right.
00:21:49
Speaker
Similar to getting, even with dad, in terms of kids who are now in charge of things, you got Blank Check. You also got Monkey Trouble, little gal hanging out with a capuchin. You got what I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be the best one in the lot, Baby's Day Out.
00:22:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Okay. You got the movie designed for grandparents to take their disinterested grandchildren to, The Little Rascals. can't imagine anyone wanting to see The Little Rascals. My friend and i went to see that, but I think it was because we couldn't see something else.
00:22:26
Speaker
Okay. that That was probably a good percentage of their take. Yeah. You got three ninjas kickback. The three ninjas are still going strong. You got my girl too. and Didn't she die?
00:22:41
Speaker
No, he died. The girl lived. yeah What's my girl too about? He's dead. Yeah. now Now she's someone else's girl, I guess. I guess so. She's my girl. They should have done TOO. She's my girl too.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. They really blew it. And last but not least, you got ah Clifford. Not the big red dog. The weird child played by Martin Short. Yeah. It's crazy to me how many of these movies I've seen. I've seen quite a number of them. Yeah, I've definitely seen most. This is my prime childhood. I actually think this is a part of why North is so hated. is like in comparison to all these like Macaulay Culkin family films are out at the time.
00:23:21
Speaker
there's nothing like North they're all like they're funny but in an earnest way and I don't think that North has that like earnestness about it like it it's chaotic evil it's something yeah it has a meanness to it yeah yeah it's very arch I honestly like I didn't hate it i i'll say I'll say that right now i there is there words was actually a lot in it that I liked um I like that it's I like that it's almost about family abolition.
Plot Analysis of 'North'
00:23:52
Speaker
Like that really surprised me. I didn't expect that. Almost. yeah But that was interesting to me. Well, you guys want to talk specifically about what North is about? Dig into this plot?
00:24:05
Speaker
Desperately. Yeah.
00:24:26
Speaker
Plot bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:24:38
Speaker
Plot bumper, plot bumper.
00:24:51
Speaker
We open on a suburban three-story house. Number 35, whatever street this is. Maple. I wanted be i want to say Maple Street? Excellent. But I want to say one thing real fast about the credits.
00:25:05
Speaker
oh Because watching the credits this time, thats you can see all these, like, doc it's like here's the Statue Liberty. Here's ah here's a pyramid. here's Here's all these relics everywhere. And you can see that with the names of all the people,
00:25:20
Speaker
And with this like kind of tour of where we're going to go, it's just like they're setting us up for this grand adventure. And you can tell from the credits that it's like when you rewatch this, you're going to be like, oh, remember when North goes to China? And remember when North does this? And like watching it this time, it really felt like.
00:25:38
Speaker
going on the roller coaster ride that they planned for a movie and then the movie came out and it was a flop, but you're still for some reason on the roller coaster ride. You're just like, I guess we'll give it a run and we'll see what it's like.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like that universe theme park that they're opening down in universal studios. That's crazy, but good for them. Yeah. I mean, I guess they're already doing it, but yeah, we do get a tour of North's room where it's, he's filled with all like the toys that little boys have in movies. Yeah. Like a train set and a bunch of snow globes. He doesn't have like any Ninja turtles or Nintendo.
00:26:16
Speaker
This kid instantly reads fake to me. I'm like fake kid. I don't care. i was out instantly. ah But then we cut to family dinner with North and his mom and dad, who are obviously played by Jason Alexander and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
00:26:33
Speaker
Don't have a lot to do other than sort of just yell and ignore North. That's their whole characters. Mm-hmm. Bruce Willis starts narrating a lot and North starts having a panic attack right in front of ah his parents who are complaining.
00:26:49
Speaker
And then we get a cutaway gag of North being a good kid in lots of different ways. We get a lot of like family guy style cutaway gags. in this ah But the familial stress is starting to get to him and he starts, you know, underperforming.
00:27:05
Speaker
So what he decides that he needs is he needs a good sit in his secret spot. So he takes a long walk through a forest past ah a perfectly good tree house and a covered bridge. And a secret spot is, in fact, a leather chair on display in a furniture store in the Bridgewater Commons Mall in New Jersey.
00:27:24
Speaker
Did any of you have secret spots? Yes. I did.
00:27:29
Speaker
can are Can you tell us what it is or is it still? Will you tell me where yours was? Yes. Okay, then I will tell you. So there was a tree branch that I would go to specifically, and I would sit in that tree branch and I would watch the sunset. That's how I kept myself calm as a child, which is a weird thing to do as a child, I admit. But I was like, I need that branch, guys. At sunset, I got to have that branch. or whoof Hey, whatever gets you through the night. Exactly.
00:27:55
Speaker
We lived across the street from the backside of a golf course and a neighborhood old man would cut a hole in the fence every fall. So everybody could just go out and like sled on there. Oh, okay.
00:28:07
Speaker
Like we'd walk our dogs there after night and let them shit on the golf course. And, uh, but there was one, ah little water trap that had a little rock that was like a promontory out over it. And I would sit on that little rock. Yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah. Secret spots. I should have gone to the mall. That would have been better. ah While North is at the mall, he meets Bruce Willis in the form of an Easter bunny.
00:28:34
Speaker
And now Bruce Willis is not just the narrator of the movie doing like wall to wall narration for long chunks of this movie. He's now also going to become a recurring cur He's like a spirit guide. Really? What did you guys think of Bruce in this?
00:28:45
Speaker
I think Bruce is amazing in this. Like yeah he's giving this wall his everything. He's quite funny. I think he's he's pulling a lot of the weight in North. He might be the best part of North, frankly.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah, I could definitely see that. i think I think the wall-to-wall narration was too big of an ask, but I don't put that on him at all. No, and I think that's like any movie that's wall-to-wall narration. It's like you should have you should show that stuff, not just narrate that stuff. But that's an issue that this movie has, I think. so Yeah, it was trying to tell a lot of story for some reason in 87 minutes. Yeah.
00:29:28
Speaker
That is not how long I thought this movie was. It was sub 90. I wouldn't guess 100 at least. No. No.
00:29:39
Speaker
ah So North tells Bruce that his parents aren't paying enough attention to him. And Bruce tells him, hey, that's rough. It's a shame that you can't become a free agent. See you around, kid. And then he sort of wanders off into the miasma of the mall.
00:29:56
Speaker
So then the next day, North goes to see his friend and classmate Winchell, a very strange character. Yeah. Very strange. Very odd. At first you think he's like a precocious kid because he's like the manager of the school newspaper. But then you find out that he's actually some sort of supervillain.
00:30:17
Speaker
it's It's really weird because he's acting in a way in doing things that only a child who isn't considered an adult could do, but as a child who's acting, quote unquote, like an adult...
00:30:32
Speaker
Like he's giving people like financial advice. It's like, this is cute or whatever, but also like no adult could do this in be liked. Like there's no way an adult could be this character and have anybody go like, I like that guy. But like, it's so it's weird to see a child pulling, trying to do that as well.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah. He just reads really, and he's definitely not as good an actor as Elijah Wood. No, nowhere in near. he's He's not really pulling it off. He's probably the worst bit of this movie, but John Lovett, on the other hand.
00:31:03
Speaker
He is fantastic. love John Lovett in this movie. Those two together are electric. I will give you that. yeah ah Now when he talks to Winchell and he's like, I'm thinking about maybe emancipating myself and becoming a free agent child. I'm a good child.
00:31:24
Speaker
Any number of parents would want to have a good child like me. So I will see if I can find one, but maybe not. I'm going to give my dad one last chance.
00:31:35
Speaker
So he tries to call his dad, who is working at his job as a pants inspector at the Pants Factory. I remember this sequence so vividly. Once I saw it, I was just like, oh, the Pants Factory.
00:31:48
Speaker
I like it. It's a good sight gag. Yeah, you get to see a bunch of people. all inspecting the pants by doing stuff. Yeah, it's really great.
00:31:58
Speaker
I'll give him that. ah It was very like Mad Magazine. and I liked it. But dad doesn't have time to pay attention. It's a shame. he's too He's got too many pants to test. They just brought in another rack of pants for him to test.
00:32:13
Speaker
So ah a literal ambulance chaser, Arthur Belt, played by John Lovitz, rolls up. And so North is now ready to go to court.
00:32:25
Speaker
I would also like to point out that this is one of the first things that this movie taught me as a child, that um there's like a running joke that lawyers chase ambulances.
00:32:36
Speaker
but that was it was just like Then I would start seeing that in other media and like, oh, just like in North. Okay. this is one of the ways that that this was a real touchstone for me as a child. This movie taught me a lot about life. or ah ahll I can take this moment. like They use the word pro bono in here. And I remember as a child being like, you guys know pro bono means? And they'd be like, no, I don't. You'd be like, okay.
00:33:00
Speaker
And then you would just have lived with that mystery for years until you could figure out how to look it up in some context, you know, just, and, uh, I forget what the other, just a number of things is was like, Oh, that's what that's about. Like this taught me stuff about people, which is maybe not the best place to learn it, but still.
00:33:21
Speaker
Hey, if you ain't learning, you ain't living. That's what I always say. It's true. So we cut to the trial. We got Alan Arkham as a judge. You love to see Alan Arkham. So funny in this.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, he he delivers. And the parents, though, they can't participate in their defense because they've been shocked into a coma at the news that their child would even attempt to emancipate himself.
00:33:44
Speaker
They are in a coma in the courtroom. And so the judge is forced to rule against them. Uh, judge Alan Arkin rules that North has until labor day to either find his new parents or return to his old ones, or he has to go to an orphanage.
00:34:00
Speaker
It has to be in. It's one or the other. And the stipulation that he has to be in the arms of both parents at the stroke of noon. Yes. At noon, that classic deadline.
00:34:14
Speaker
Well, he's a child. You don't want him to stay up till midnight. It's It's true.
00:34:21
Speaker
So with that, and with the help of Arthur Belt, North begins trying to find his new family. ah He gets a bunch of letters, there's a bunch of calls, and he chooses his first candidates, and they're the Texes who live in Texas.
00:34:37
Speaker
Ma and Pa Tex, played by, of course, Dan Aykroyd and Reba McIntyre. To me, these two characters felt like American characters in an anime. Yes. like favorite dream They're insane. I love their outfits, though. The ah the costuming in this pit is like it's great. Yeah. it's It's full cocaine cowboy glitzed up, all rhinestone out. They're looking... yeah super shiny and, and very cartoonish. You can read them from the back row. And this is when this movie becomes more cartoony than it even was before.
00:35:14
Speaker
Now it's very clear that this is not meant to be realistic, especially because, ah there's a large musical number. Um, and But the Texas do offer North a life of luxury and privilege as the son of Texas oil and cattle barons.
00:35:31
Speaker
ah Also, they have a ranch hand named Gabby, who is also played by Bruce Willis, but claims to be a different guy. But he's very clearly still Bruce Willis. In all of these, he's Bruce Willis. He's never like, oh, I'm Bruce Willis playing a nerd. He's just he's Bruce Willis in every one.
00:35:49
Speaker
He's exactly who we want him to be. Yeah, egg he's he's perfect. Don't go changing, Bruce Willis. So that night, over a big dinner, they tell North that they need him to eat as much as humanly possible because they want him to be as big as their dead son, Buck.
00:36:06
Speaker
Because they want the biggest and the best of everything. And North is already the best, so now they need him to be the biggest boy in the world. if And they sing and dance about it.
00:36:17
Speaker
And this makes North feel a little weird. Yeah. Understandably that to find out that his parents are non-erotic feeders is an odd situation.
00:36:30
Speaker
So Gabby says, you know, there's plenty of fish in the sea. You don't need to stick with these guys. So the next day, North bids adieu to the Texas.
00:36:41
Speaker
And before he leaves, Gabby shoots a hole in a silver dollar and gives it to North for luck. I do like that his given reason is like, he doesn't say that he doesn't want to be fat.
00:36:55
Speaker
He says that he doesn't want to change for his parents. That's true. And I appreciate that with everything else that's... ah All the rest? problem yeah Yeah. That is at least not fatphobic. Yeah, he could have been like, they want me to be a pig, you know? But he doesn't say anything like that.
00:37:13
Speaker
Good point. At this point in the movie, you can sort of tell that the next at least half hour to 45 minutes is going to be North going to different families that he's going to fail with.
00:37:24
Speaker
yeah And this is when the movie sort of feels like it's spinning its wheels a little bit. They're trying to create some dramatic tension with the B plot, with the the kids revolution that's going on, which I don't know how effective it is.
00:37:39
Speaker
Just because the kids revolution seems more like a gag than a plot every time they cut to it. Basically, yeah. Now, before North meets the next set of parents, we cut to a Viva El Norte rally led by Winchell out in a public park. And Arthur's there, too.
00:37:58
Speaker
And other kids have been inspired by North's example, and they want to use him as like a bargaining chip. Like, oh, if my parents don't start upping my allowance, I'm going to emancipate myself. That of thing.
00:38:13
Speaker
Then North arrives in Hawaii to meet his next parents, Governor and Mrs. Ho. Hawaii is beautiful. Things get bad.
00:38:24
Speaker
yeah Yeah. This is when things start going downhill. Yeah. I'm going to say as broad of a caricature of Texans, the Texases were, you're going to have a broad character of every other type of person that you meet. Yeah. yeah And they're not really going to be types of people. They're just going to be people from places.
00:38:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. They're just mostly going to be racist that you're encountering. It's really weird. It's like, I'm going to different families all over the world. And what I found is that they're the race they are. It's like, i didn't feel they weren't needy or didn't talk to you or they weren't bad parents because they did this or they were just Chinese.
00:39:01
Speaker
That's weird. Yeah. It was weird when they did Chinese stuff. I didn't like it. No.
00:39:08
Speaker
Now, ah let's see. Hawaii is beautiful, and the Hoes don't have a dead son, so North is interested in sticking around this time. That's ah that's one in the plus column.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah, hey, no dead son. ah But the Hoes reveal that they want to use North as a spokesmodel for ah Hawaiian tourism in a campaign where an octopus yanks down his swimsuit, revealing, as he calls it repeatedly, his crack.
00:39:40
Speaker
this is so weird he keeps saying my crack but yeah there's this big billboard with like a like a half nude little boy on it i don't know what i'm supposed to think about this yeah well it's a reference to a classic suntan lotion advertisement campaign i can't remember the one copper tone yeah yeah everybody like from the 60s yeah all the kids of the 80s love that joke but Well, that, Greg, I'm glad you put it that way. This ties into my central
Inappropriate Content and Surprising Scenes
00:40:10
Speaker
thesis. This movie, to me, it felt very much like, you know, in a kid's movie when they make the jokes for an adult, they'll throw a couple of those in there.
00:40:22
Speaker
ah This feels like it was a kid's movie with just the jokes for adults. I would kind agree with you. That pretty much sums it up. Yeah. At the same time, I think that increases its resonance with you know, the kind of children who get referred to as old souls. I was going to say as a precocious child. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah. No, same here. And I was very much just like, oh you speak like a person much older than you. It's like, yeah. And so I love this. yeah like I love this six months of daylight joke. I fucking love that six months of daylight joke. I loved it. Yeah.
00:40:59
Speaker
yeah So ah tetata North later runs into Bruce Willis again, this time in the guise of a metal detection enthusiast.
00:41:10
Speaker
And he tells him that the hosts are just using him. Even if it's mutually beneficial, he should probably move on. a Then we get Winchell and Arthur getting massages. Weird to seeing a child getting a massage. Very odd. I went to the chiropractor a lot. So for me, this didn't seem that crazy.
00:41:30
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Maybe it's because I was still in my father, the hero mode. It felt in a. Yeah. Watching these two near each other is an interesting ah double whammy.
00:41:45
Speaker
We've had a weird run of kids movies. Yeah, we have. Okay. Yeah, because we have My Father of the Hero, Girls Just Want to Have Fun, Barbie as Rapunzel, and now North. I feel like we've had a solid kids month.
00:41:56
Speaker
Yeah, we have, actually. Wish I had thought more consciously about that ahead of time. Yeah.
00:42:04
Speaker
Yeah, so they're getting massages and ah adults are now being pressured to vote the way that their kids want. And so Winchell says, and now I'm going to make you our next president, Arthur Belt. And John Lovitz is like, oh, goody. you know he's that So North arrives in Alaska and he he meets his next parents, who are Graham Green and unfortunately, Kathy Bates in Redface.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, it's not great. It's probably the worst bit. Kathy, come on, babe. The version I watched was, it was streaming it and it didn't look great. So I was like, I'm going to pretend like this is just a color correction issue.
00:42:48
Speaker
And just like some the the the the compression is off. I'm just going to run with that. Yeah, it it was truly shocking. But I guess after Rob Reiner won her her Oscar for Misery, she felt like she did. Putting on the brown face. Yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like now Rob probably still owes her another little bit. But yeah, they're a very nice couple at the very least. other than the fact that they're about to set their aged father adrift on an ice flow before he can become a burden on their community. This is also essentially Inuit blood libel.
00:43:27
Speaker
This is a rumor that was told about the Inuit people for ages and never happened. So that's right unfortunate. I'll note we're not using the word Inuit in North either. no No, no. Not at all. I am assuming that they are Inuit, but they, you know, anyway.
00:43:42
Speaker
They, yeah, anyway. North finds the process of sending grandpa to his death, sort of alienating, especially after dealing the with the impersonal ice flow guy played by Richard Belzer, possibly as Munch, extending this into the Munchverse. I love that.
00:44:06
Speaker
We don't know what he was doing between when he left Baltimore for a homicide and joining up with SVU. He could have had a stopover in Alaska. Mm-hmm. ah Now, as North rides back home to the igloo on a horse-drawn sled, he talks to the sled driver, who is also Bruce Willis.
00:44:28
Speaker
And for the, I'm going to say, third or fourth time in this movie, he explains to Bruce Willis what is going on in his life. This happens a lot in this movie. Yeah. ah Bruce Willis tells him to move on to the next. And unfortunately he only has one week left due to the time dilation of living in the North ah and it being summer.
00:44:50
Speaker
So I want to talk about this for one second. Yes, please. This is where the joke was. And he's like, I only showered 12 times during the 70s. It's like, that's pretty funny. Like as a as a smart little boy, I was like, that's pretty funny, Bruce. I like that. But the idea that North, the idea of this movie is that this child is looking for different parents all over the world.
00:45:13
Speaker
And seven eights, which I did the calculation, that is 87%. 87% of his time is spent off screen on a joke. 87% of North's journey is him going, I didn't realize I had that.
00:45:32
Speaker
I think that is the metaphor for this movie where it's just like, isn't that funny? It's like you skipped the plot to make a joke. And the joke was funny, but what about the plot?
00:45:46
Speaker
Well, you know, not that much interesting happened in those 49 days with that they were walking out to the ice. I don't doubt that, but maybe they could have written something interesting.
00:45:56
Speaker
I think it's funny to do that. and then they just do the the race racial speed run after that. Yeah. Oh, and then, yeah. Then it gets wild. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately now is when North goes international mode. And as soon as you see his little plane icon flying out over the Atlantic, you're like, Oh, there's some good gags though. The Amish one, little bit funny.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'll take the Amish one. And i did like the, the Amish couple there were the leads of the movie witness. If I remember correctly. Jesus.
00:46:31
Speaker
ah Yeah. Everybody's. ah But unfortunately, after the Amish, then he flies to ah Beijing, Zaire and Paris. The jokes that you imagine happen are the ones that happen.
00:46:45
Speaker
French ones very funny, though. I did laugh at the French parents that are just like chain smoking and watching TV. That's good. That's good. Yeah. As a child, I noticed that every channel was showing the same actor on it. And I was like, I don't know who that is. And I don't know why they think he's funny because he doesn't seem funny. But also, why are those people just watching that one guy on every station? This doesn't make any sense.
00:47:09
Speaker
Who is it? It's Jerry Lewis, the comedian, because all French people love Jerry Lewis as the racist stereotype. Again, a joke not for children. like Yes. It's a joke for yeah adults. Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, I guess, you know what? I would have gotten these a lot of these jokes as a child, but that's because i read a lot of, like, Bloom County when I was, you know, five. I started reading Bloom County later, so that probably helped me, because I know at some point I was, like, piecing this stuff together. like, so that was Jerry Lewis. Okay. So what's the deal with, you know, and then just, like, North was a real through line for me as a child. Possibly because it was, like,
00:47:50
Speaker
People were taking him all over the world and I was just sitting in my house not being talked to. So that was probably something about it. It also sort of reminds me of like in a Looney Tunes, like an old Looney Tunes where you'll see like Humphrey Bogart and you don't know who Humphrey Bogart is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, you know, when you're 18, you're like, oh, that's who that was in Looney Tunes. Or someone sings a song and you're like, what's that song? And then you hear it decades and you're like, oh, it was really popular in the 40s. Oh, that's Michigan Rag.
00:48:18
Speaker
Yes, the Michigan Rag. Okay. Okay.
00:48:24
Speaker
uh let's see uh so after he finishes his international tour he flies to upstate new york uh to try living with just sort of a nice normal family last ditch effort oh and what's a nice normal family you know it's a white nuclear family with that i was just gonna say this also seemed pretty racist to me as well that's the perfect family Yeah, you got your dad, John Ritter. You got your mom, Corky Sherwood. you got little sis, Scarlett Johansson, and a brother who's just some dude. He seems like he's finally going to be fitting in.
00:48:58
Speaker
Back in Winchell's plotline, he has parlayed his success into a high-rise office filled with arcade games. I don't know what's going on with this guy.
00:49:11
Speaker
John Lovitz is loving it, though. Yeah. Yeah. He's riding Winchell's coattails all the way to the top. ah His plan for global domination by leading a children's social revolution is going shockingly smoothly.
00:49:25
Speaker
But unfortunately for him, North's comatose parents, who he has kept prisoner in a display case in his office building's lobby, No, in the Smithsonian. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, okay. Because it's they're in the longest simultaneous coma? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. oh It's not a very good joke. No. No. And it's delivered very dryly by Ben Nye.
00:49:52
Speaker
Stein. Ben Stein. Yes, thank you. Bill Nye, Ben Stein. I combined the two. That would be something. Yeah, they're both television smart people. Mm-hmm. So the parents begin to arise from their stupor.
00:50:07
Speaker
They're unconcerned with waking up in a glass case in the Smithsonian Museum, ah and they accept Winchell's offer to help make a VHS tape to send to North to sort of smooth things over. they they He tells them that he's not ready for a face-to-face interaction, but this this is how they can make their intro.
00:50:28
Speaker
Unbeknownst to them, Winchell edits it so that it looks like they are jerks. North watches the North. like It's like the conversation.
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's really powerful stuff really teaches kids something about trusting everything you see on TV. It's true. So North watches the tape, and even though it makes him appreciate the Nelsons all the more, they still aren't quite right.
00:50:59
Speaker
So he hops a train to the big city, where he makes a beeline for Columbus Circle for a little wandering around Central Park aimlessly at night. Winchell has heard of North's arrival and sends a security guard to assassinate him, hoping to make him a martyr to the kids liberation cause.
00:51:17
Speaker
This is where it gets insane. It's like the tone of the film shifts. It's really jarring. It's like, oh, they're trying to murder a child now. Yeah. Yeah. Like you definitely get the feeling this guy did not know how to end this story. So it's like big action set piece. That's where we're going.
00:51:33
Speaker
It's also weird because you see him go into the park and the guy calls. He's like, he's in the park. And then they cut back to windshield for a while. And then you see North and then someone shooting him. And I like had to go back. i was like, have they revealed who's shooting him? Because it was just that cut to something else.
00:51:49
Speaker
I was just so shocked that anyone would be shooting him. that I was just like, is it a mugger? Is it some random stranger? Like, what's going on here? And then eventually it's like, oh, it's it's that guy some. a political assassination of a 10-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. I was not at all expecting gunplay in North. Not at all. Yeah.
00:52:08
Speaker
Between dodging bullets, North runs into a kid that's also working for Winchell that he knew his kid. Adam, played by Jussie Smollett, who is the guy on Empire who filed a false police report. Interesting. Okay. Yeah.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah. Everybody's in this movie. yeah ah So Adam gives North an unedited copy of the VHS tape. And then North escapes his would-be murderer one more time in a Borscht truck. Oh, this movie also taught me what Borscht was. was about to say that. I was like, you know, very happy to know what Borscht was as a child. Yeah, it was always a mystery to me. And then after that, I was like, oh, like in the movie North. Oh, like from North. Okay. Okay.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah, Winchell says specifically, it's a cold beet soup. Yeah, he actually literally explains it. I was like, fuck, yes, now I know what this is. And I think my favorite line delivery of the film is here when John jo Lovitz is playing like a pinball machine and just turns around and says, I make a good borscht.
00:53:07
Speaker
and so Yeah. Yeah. The other, ah he had another line where he turned around from a Terminator 2 arcade game and said, Oh, are they talking about me? like
00:53:19
Speaker
he's so good. on this He's having so much fun. You can just tell how much fun he's having with this Alan Arkin as well. You know, they just yeah showed up. You can, yeah, you can see it in their faces. So, uh,
00:53:30
Speaker
North ducks into a nearby hotel where he meets Bruce Willis again, this time in the form of stand-up comedian Joey Fingers. Which is a rough name for stand-up.
00:53:43
Speaker
He's probably my favorite bit of this. I think this guy's really funny. Yeah. I mean, he's crushing in the room. I'll give him that The joke he tells. the smoke alarm convention?
00:53:54
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. it ah I don't even know if we could describe it here. It's like, it only makes sense in context in a strange way, but yes it worked for me. Yeah. When I rewatched that, I was like, that is genuinely very funny. Yeah. yeah I mean, the writer did write standup jokes for $7 a piece. It makes sense. He'd have at least good one in this pocket.
00:54:15
Speaker
Joey fingers is of course, Bruce Willis. And so now we get to see for the fifth or sixth time in this movie, Elijah would explain to Bruce Willis that he's a strained relationship with his parents. They pop on the unedited VHS.
00:54:28
Speaker
there They pop on the unedited VHS tape and North learns that his parents do in fact love him. Ray. ah yeah He tries to get, I guess, I mean, yeah yeah, you know, it was all just a big misunderstanding. I mean, they, they spent the entire movie in a coma, not having any growth. It's very normal.
00:54:51
Speaker
Well, they were just so shocked. It never even occurred to them that their wonderful son North felt neglect. North tries to catch a flight home, unaware that his parents are actually,
00:55:03
Speaker
In the Smithsonian, they're somewhere. It's tough to say. ah But he can't catch a flight home because Winchell's media empire has declared him dead. It's very Kafka-esque.
00:55:14
Speaker
So then he hops into a FedEx truck where the FedEx driver is also Bruce Willis. And Bruce Willis ships him home in a FedEx box.
00:55:26
Speaker
But when he gets home, his parents aren't there. Who's in his house? Winchell.
00:55:33
Speaker
Winchell tells North that his parents are waiting for him at his secret spot. And so North rushes over to the mall, about to reunite with his parents in front of the judge, who was also at the mall, just seconds before the deadline, when Winchell's assassin fires a shot at him.
00:55:52
Speaker
But then North wakes up. The whole movie. Yeah. oh but yeah It was all a dream.
Dream Sequence and Narrative Criticism
00:56:03
Speaker
Everything since it's a counter with the rabbit, Bruce Willis. That's all been a dream because we then see rabbit, Bruce Willis again, who offers him a ride home and reunites him with his parents and North thinks maybe they aren't so bad.
00:56:20
Speaker
Maybe. So I got a question before we get into the things here for the people who hadn't seen it before. Yeah. Did you know it was a dream sequence when it started? No. No. Okay.
00:56:31
Speaker
Because they do, I noticed this time, that they fade in a way that actually makes it seem like it's a dream sequence when it begins, and I was very upset by that. Oh. Never noticed that. He doesn't have a coin, though.
00:56:43
Speaker
He's got his dollar that Gabby has. Yeah. So it's kind of like, ooh, was it a dream? Yeah, exactly. Yes. Think about it. Well, final thoughts. Five star ratings.
00:56:55
Speaker
Greg, why don't you kick us off in terms of watchability and weirdness? Where'd you land on the movie North? Right. So, yeah. So ah really loved this one as a child. It meant a lot to me. I mean, it still kind of does in its way.
00:57:11
Speaker
But watching it again this time, I had a very different reaction to it. Now that especially now that I've like taken film classes and have written some scripts and stuff. It's this movie is really weird because one, you can kind of if you're paying attention, you can tell that most of the plot is a dream sequence, which is not great to reveal that right away. You want to obscure that. It's weird that they would put any kind of hint in there. Yeah. um And then it's like the people that he should be connecting with are literally don't talk at all.
00:57:42
Speaker
Seven eighths of his journey occurs off screen in a joke. And then we spend a lot of time with a character who exists only in a dream, who has a superfluous story about a child revolution.
00:57:55
Speaker
And I realized watching it this time that this feels like it's hearts trying to do the right thing. and it was just like, sometimes our parents don't pay attention to us and that's a problem.
00:58:07
Speaker
And then they just launch into a movie for the parents. And it was really upsetting for me to watch it again. And I feel like now I can understand why people dislike this is because it seems like a children's movie. But when you go in, it's just a movie for the adults, which is basically the situation that North is in. but It's like, I want to be a child and i have a family.
00:58:30
Speaker
but they keep ignoring me. And so I'm going to have this dream sequence in which we can just ignore everything. And then in the end of it, I'll just be back with my parents because it turns out they did like me. It's like, it might've just been better if you just talked to them.
00:58:43
Speaker
Or if they would just realize what was, you know, I mean, obviously that's not a movie and all these things. Just like I had a very, very strong reaction to it. I've also ah the realization that my family ignored me like that was something that I knew for a long time, but just recently have actually literally confirmed it. So this came at a weird time in my life to be like revisiting this thing.
00:59:04
Speaker
ah But as far as watchability, like I'm not going to give it a zero because it's not My Father the Hero. like note i Maybe me like a half, I think, probably. it just like It's an interesting movie. I'm certainly glad that I watched it, and I don't want to...
00:59:21
Speaker
poopoo anybody liking it or anything, but it is very racist. Uh, and, uh, again, it's one of these movies where it's just like, I don't know what a child is supposed to learn from this. And I learned a lot from it as a child. I learned a lot from this. And I learned like factoids and trivia. exactly Exactly. And that's the thing is like, this feels like a world tour.
00:59:42
Speaker
And it's also just weird. It's just like we could examine the different types of parents that we encounter. But instead, it's just like, what if you were with a Chinese family or an African family? Or it's like, i what does that have to do with people, though? That's just... So I had a just a really wild reaction to it this time. I'm certainly glad that I watched it. Thank you very much for bringing it back into my life. It's good to reassess it. It certainly got value in seeing it because I think that this is –
01:00:16
Speaker
There's just value sometimes in seeing stuff that just completely misses the mark so that you know where the mark is located, I think. ah And as far as weirdness goes, I'm going to give it a three because the whole child revolution plot's pretty weird. The jokes are really out of place ah for where they are. I will take this moment to say that I loved Alan Arkin's joke about the clock. He's sitting in a bunch of clocks. turns a digital clock around and he's like, you've got three minutes. That's a clock. That's my clock.
01:00:45
Speaker
And it was just something like that. I was brought it from home. Yeah. There's so many little wonderful beats like that. And I love those beats as a child, but now as an adult, I was like, I learned the wrong lessons from this movie. I think that's fair.
01:01:01
Speaker
Anna, where did you land in terms of watchability and weirdness? um I would rate this. I don't know. I'd say about a two. I like. I like movies with big casts. um you I always find it very watchable, whether you're always like, it's that person and that person and that person. um So I enjoy that aspect of it.
01:01:26
Speaker
I do think, I do think it's weird though. i think it's real weird. I give it a four for weirdness. I think that's it. Cause I think both yeah the, both the kids revolution B plot, but then also the, you know, the,
01:01:40
Speaker
Even the idea of a kid shopping for parents is um weird in children's media, I guess. Yeah, that's a unique tale. I'll give it that.
01:01:53
Speaker
I gave it two stars in terms of watchability. I thought there was a high level of craft. There was a high budget. It was delightfully brief. I got to give it up for something coming in sub 90 minutes. You know, I got to give it up for that. But it was also completely devoid of a single recognizable human emotion. And there were not very many jokes.
01:02:13
Speaker
All the characters kind of sucked. ah And there's just a vague unpleasantness to it. ah In terms of weirdness, I gave it a four stars just for like what I was saying earlier about it being like a kid's movie. It felt kind of like, yeah, a kid's movie made for adults who don't like kids.
01:02:34
Speaker
If that makes any sense. Like, I just don't yeah know who this is targeted towards. I guess alienated children. I looked into the book because I was curious what how that was in comparison in the movie. And I think a lot of the issues that we've all been talking about are just present in the book. Oh, I'm sure.
01:02:52
Speaker
i bet this was very faithful. This feels very literary. yeah it sounds It sounds like from what I read that, well, it did have to cut out a lot of things to reach its time that it is relatively faithful. So, yeah.
01:03:04
Speaker
Well, Lucy, we saved the guest for last in terms of watchability and weirdness. Five stars. Where'd you land? Yeah, look, it's it's definitely weird. I've got to give it four stars for weirdness. I think that's the thing. It's like I can't name a movie that Norse is like. Like it's not anything like the other family films at the time. It's got such a strange – like you're right, it's like a kid's movie it's got this really adult like cynicism to it. There's no genuine emotion, which, you know, I quite like and I think is extremely funny. Yeah.
Reflecting on 'North' and Personal Growth
01:03:38
Speaker
For me, I loved it, but I have been, you know, thinking even in this conversation of like, well, I loved this movie and I was a precocious, undiagnosed autistic child. um And the things I remember from this movie are the factoids that I learned from it. I learned what Borsh is. And I was like, oh, I get these adult jokes. um It's got like really adult jokes in it. I realized rewatching it, like even when they're in Hawaii, there's a joke that
01:04:04
Speaker
where he's asking about the dead kid and the parents are like, the only barren area in this whole island is Mrs Ho. I forgot about that. yeah Yeah, I do remember being like, Mom, what does Baron mean? It's insane to have this in a child's movie. But, um you know, I'm going to give it four stars for watchability just because I do think that it's fun. the cast so like The cast outside of the main plot is just incredible. Like there's so many funny jokes in it.
01:04:35
Speaker
But maybe, again, it's it's for a strange child. That's who this movie is for, is a strange outcast child only. That's fair. And I'm going to say as also – And maybe if I'd watch it as a child, I might've felt differently. That also might be the dividing line. I think, uh, well, uh, Greg rewatching as adult, that obviously seems to have traumatized him, but it didn't I'm having a personal thing. I'm having a real personal response to this film. So yeah, fair enough.
01:05:03
Speaker
Uh, well, Let's head on to act three of the show. We all had different feelings about this movie, but we aren't the only ones. There are a lot of people who left reviews for the DVD on Amazon.com. And we're going to talk about them in yeah the review review.
01:05:27
Speaker
Review, review, where we review reviews You wrote a review of the film and now we're going to review you Review, review
01:05:49
Speaker
review review review
01:06:08
Speaker
that's right it's the review review all these reviews came from goodoldam amazon dot com thanks jeff bezos The first review comes from Thomas. Thomas gave it five stars. The title of his review, five stars.
01:06:27
Speaker
Okay. Great job. No problem with these people.
01:06:32
Speaker
Okay. Great. all right All right. I am begging Thomas to review the podcast. That would be the dream review for a podcast. Okay.
01:06:45
Speaker
Larry Hirsch gave it four stars with the title, people who hate this film seriously need to lighten up. Now, I got to say, across the panel, even the defenders of North can at least understand why someone else wouldn't like it. 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:08
Speaker
People who are bashing this film really need to lighten up. The film's message is meant to be taken seriously, but its supposed racist stereotypes are not.
01:07:21
Speaker
so I mean, they're pretty bad. We didn't even talk about like the African scene. No, I really wanted to skip it.
01:07:33
Speaker
Agent Cooper gave it five stars. I like to imagine that it is in fact the Agent Cooper. me This movie is totally underrated. Yes, there are some racial stereotypes, but it's nothing that's a real negative.
01:07:49
Speaker
It's all done with tongue-in-cheek humor. Yes, some of the acting comes across a little stiff, but in the context of the whole movie, it is just kind of adds to the humor.
01:08:01
Speaker
Maybe you'll be unhappy with this movie. I don't know. Everyone has different tastes. But if you like this kind of movie, then this is the kind of movie you'll like.
01:08:12
Speaker
o I guess that's always true of movies. I like that as a sentence. Yeah, that's actually good. it's And it's accurate for this one for sure.
01:08:22
Speaker
Yeah. ah Elizabeth gave it five stars. Cute and funny. This movie is for all those individuals who don't realize what they have until they've lost it.
01:08:35
Speaker
North is a delightful journey into the delusions of an 11-year-old boy's mind. Wow. Bruce Willis shines as an unlikely spirit guide.
01:08:48
Speaker
This film is perfect for stargazing with its large and recognizable cast. Oh, that kind of stargazing. Yeah. it It has the same appeal as like an issue of People Magazine.
01:09:02
Speaker
This one comes from Tim Nyverth. there's some grammar problems on this one. So, uh, Bruce in a bunny suit, five stars. This is really a good movie for the kiddies, but for some critics, the late Roger Ebert have hated this film. I, a big Rob Reiner fan, have liked this from start to end. I think Bruce Willis, who made amazing creations, such as John McClane and Butch Coolidge, this film he was nominated him Worst Actor. He played an Easter Bunny, a Cowboy, Beach Bum, an Eskimo, and a comedian named Joey Fingers, among others. And with a young Elijah Wood, this duo had done a great job.
01:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I think every time it was just the two of them on screen, I loved all their little scenes. Oh, yeah. No, they're I they were repetitive, but I don't know. For some reason, that worked to me. for Discomforting. It was punctuation. yeah Yeah. Little bookends to every, you're like, okay, now we're leaving this racial stereotype behind onto to the next.
01:10:13
Speaker
But it also shows like the, the skill Bruce Willis has working with child actors, which you'd obviously put on display in six cents, you know, but eight years from this there. Something last one, Josh gave it five stars.
01:10:27
Speaker
The title of the review, watch this movie. This movie was bad.
01:10:36
Speaker
and Okay. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Josh. Also a very good point. Well, Are you guys want to play a little game? Uh-huh.
01:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. Well, we got a brand new go game. oh you know what that means? It's a new bumper.
01:11:04
Speaker
These actors acted together. They were both in this movie, and they were in.
01:11:15
Speaker
At least one more, guessing's the game. Don't mess around, can you match up the names? Just stop, stop, and think about it.
01:11:26
Speaker
Stop, stop, and just think about it. Soon you will know which two actors acted together.
01:11:42
Speaker
So the idea for this came because the cast is so stacked. And I thought that some of these pairs of actors, some pairs of actors must have been in other movies together. yeah So I'm going to give you one actor and a movie and then a choice of three actors.
01:12:02
Speaker
And you'll pick one. i This is a buzz in game. You will buzz in by saying your own name. um I think that's all. Do we have the chance to steal?
01:12:13
Speaker
Of course. You always have the chance to steal. Yes. left around here All right. Question number one. Jason Alexander was in White Palace. 1990 with.
01:12:29
Speaker
ah Was it Rosalind Chow? Kelly McGillis or Kathy Bates? Greg. Greg. greg Kelly McGillis.
01:12:41
Speaker
Nope. Okay. Chris or Lucy? Chris. Yeah, I'll have a guess. oh oh Lucy, please. Kathy Bates.
01:12:52
Speaker
Yes.
01:12:55
Speaker
Haven't seen it. the job. It's a weird movie. It is a weird movie. It's like an erotic thriller, but it's a but it's a bummer. Yeah. Kind of. It's Susan Sarandon and James Spader. All right. and some Have some very ah some very good scenes together. you need yeah Anytime James Spader's doing anything erotic, I'm in scenes. I don't know why, but that has turned out to be true. So here we are. Put on a crash. Put on a sex, lies, and videotape on there.
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah. What's weird about it is that Susan Sarandon ends up kind of blowing him off the screen a little bit in their like seduction scenes. She steps him up. fascinating. How fascinating. Interesting.
01:13:38
Speaker
What was it called again? White Palace. Yeah, I got to see this. I'm going to write that down at the top of the page and then forget about it again like I always do. Perfect. It'll be great.
01:13:51
Speaker
Question two. Bruce Willis was in Die Hard with a Vengeance in 1995 with, was that Alexander Goodenough, Graham Greene, or Richard Belzer?
01:14:02
Speaker
Chris. Greg. Greg. Graham Greene. Yes. I didn't know if I remember that one. And then as soon as you said, was like, oh, I remember him. Yeah, he was great.
01:14:14
Speaker
Yeah. Number three. Abe Vigoda was a voice artist for something called Farce of the Penguins. ok And so was Dan Aykroyd, John Lovitz, or Ben Stein? Ooh.
01:14:32
Speaker
Ben Stein. Nope. Greg?
01:14:42
Speaker
Who's first? Greg. ah John Lovitz? Yes. Okay. I was going to say that. He does a good voice. was going to say, I feel like he'd be good as a penguin.
01:14:52
Speaker
I believe John Lovitz's character is called the My Eyes Are Up Here penguin. Ooh. So, yeah, you can I can hear him saying that. Yeah. My eyes are up here.
01:15:10
Speaker
Number four. Lauren Tom was in the Joy Luck Club, 1993.
01:15:16
Speaker
With Faith Ford, Keoni Young, or Rosalind Chow? Chris. Chris. Rosalind Chow. Yes, indeed.
01:15:28
Speaker
Also known as Keiko O'Brien. Okay. Who was she in North? She does not speak. I didn't know that. um and ah she She's ah the lady in China standing next to North's chair. Oh, okay.
01:15:45
Speaker
oh I mean, it technically is true. so Yeah, she is in the movie. She got a paycheck. don't think she has a line, though. ah Number five. Alan Arkin was in Gross Point Blank, 1997.
01:16:00
Speaker
with was that Dan Aykroyd, John Lovitz, or John Ritter? Greg. Greg. Dan Aykroyd.
Movie Longevity and MCU Surprises
01:16:10
Speaker
Yes. I love that movie a lot.
01:16:12
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't seen it in way too long. I captioned it again recently and i was like, God, I hope this is still okay. And I was like, no, it still is actually. It's still pretty good. That's good to hear. Yep. Yep. Number six, Scarlett Johansson starred in Marvel's Black Widow 2021.
01:16:30
Speaker
Who had a cameo? oh Was it Lauren Tom, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, or Kathy Bates? Chris. Chris.
01:16:41
Speaker
Kathy Bates. Nope. She should be in the MCU. They're missing out.
01:16:49
Speaker
Greg. Lucy. greg Julia Louis-Dreyfus? Yes. I was surprised to know that she's in the MCU.
01:17:01
Speaker
It's very interesting to me. i like her in the MCU. I think it's a great choice. I was just surprised. Very odd. Okay. Yeah. They got everybody in that dang thing. They did. They did. did. They do. get Get the bag. I respect people doing it. It's fine. Get your money.
01:17:15
Speaker
yeah i I'd do a damn anything for that kind of thing. They got Gwyneth Paltrow back on the big screen and off the little screen for a while, you know? Yeah. Hmm.
01:17:26
Speaker
just weird Number seven.
01:17:30
Speaker
Reba McIntyre was a voice artist for ah Charlotte's Web in 2006. And so was. Was that Elijah Wood, Kathy Bates or Lauren Tom?
01:17:44
Speaker
Lucy. Lucy. Is it Lauren Tom? No.
01:17:51
Speaker
Chris. Yes. ah I'm going to Elijah Wood played the pig. No, it was Kathy Bates.
01:18:03
Speaker
ah Okay. Greg is running away with it. All right. This one might be easy. um Number eight. Alexander Goodenough was in Witness 1985 with was that kelly Kelly McGillis, Elijah Wood, or Abe Vigoda?
01:18:22
Speaker
Chris. Chris. Kelly McGillis. It was. yes Yes. I'm sorry I gave away that question earlier. sure did, yeah. It's really weird that that scene is just a witness joke.
01:18:35
Speaker
Like, nine years later in a kids movie. Is that for a child? Yeah. All those witness fans, me and all the boys playing witness on the playground.
01:18:47
Speaker
I get to be Lucas Haas. I saw... I'm going to protect you. You're my witness. I haven't seen
Quizzes and Unexpected Knowledge
01:19:00
Speaker
it. ah Bruce Willis was in Die Hard with Alan Arkin, Alexander Goodenough, or Kelly Mikulas.
01:19:08
Speaker
Are you sure that was Bruce Willis? I'm just kidding.
01:19:13
Speaker
Chris. I feel it. Chris. Alexander Goodenough. I bet he was like a heavy. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. i It was just like, I feel like I should be able to answer this question, but for some reason I can't.
01:19:26
Speaker
Good job, Greg. You got four. Okay. All right. Thank you. Congratulations to Greg. Commiserations to Lucy and myself.
Batty Awards: Celebrating the Unusual
01:19:37
Speaker
But good news. It's the Batty Awards.
01:19:48
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards! Congratulations to all the nominees!
01:20:12
Speaker
That's right. Congratulations to all our nominees. It's the Batty Awards, the awards that we give out on the show. Greg, do you have a Batty Award? I sure do.
01:20:23
Speaker
I'm going to give my baddie award to Bruce Willis in that cowboy outfit because, wow, he looks fucking good. Yeah. And he fucking looks like Bruce Willis.
01:20:35
Speaker
Like, it's just i had the same reaction when I went to Colorado for the first time. Like, you just see it. You're like, this looks like that picture I've seen of this place. Mm hmm. uh, like this is Bruce. foot Like you just see him, you just see him firing that gun and those chaps. And you just think, God damn it. You're Bruce Willis. And you're definitely one sexiest man at some point.
01:20:55
Speaker
I can tell that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he never played like a proper cowboy, which seems strange, but he's so like New Jersey. it It just, it just worked. Like you just see him in that and you just think, yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
01:21:12
Speaker
How about you, Anna? Do you have a batty award? I do. I decided I'm going to give it to the Malamar. Oh, yeah. Which Joey Fingers offers.
01:21:25
Speaker
I Googled this and during my rewatch because I didn't know what that was. Oh. That was definitely another one of those. Like, I've heard of those and now I have a box which gives me a clue as to what they are. Yeah. Well, and in kind of an appropriate ah corollary,
01:21:42
Speaker
When you look at the the Wikipedia for Malamar, it redirects you to chocolate-coated marshmallow treat because they were invented in Denmark in the 19th century and given wildly racist names all over the world. wow And Wikipedia has all of them. Okay. Okay. But the Malamar was always the Malamar.
01:22:07
Speaker
Okay. so ah It's a delicious confection. I'll give it that. It is very good. I'm going to give my baddie award to at one point at the beginning when North first gets emancipated, there's a shot of a bunch of switchboard operators all wearing and yeah high frames. Those are the exact same switchboard operators in John Wick. I'm giving them to those switchboard operators for making this officially part of the John Wick universe. I love this concept. Yeah.
01:22:38
Speaker
and North definitely played Arthur belt with a solid gold coin. god Lucy, do you have Batty Award? Look, I don't know how negative or positive I can be here, but ah we we got to give Kathy the ah the Borderline Blackface Award. Yeah. or and that's Out of control. And then you got to give North the most out of place musical number. There's just one musical number for no reason. For no reason at all. Yeah. and Apparently that's in the book.
01:23:10
Speaker
Oh, the musical numbers in the book. That's weird. Wow. Yeah. That's according to review. They're like, they even do the musical numbers. it' Like they do the musical number in the book. musical number That is absolutely insane. Although Reba's fit in it. Her outfit. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:27
Speaker
Oh, for sure.
Podcast Promotions and Future Episodes
01:23:28
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for tuning in listeners. And thank you so much for joining us. Lucy. I'm going to be completely honest. Uh,
01:23:38
Speaker
I would say at least once a week in our house, you will hear one of us say, oh hey, there's a new Buntavista. And the other one will say, oh, nice. That's my podcast. And Sala Garde is also super fantastic. We've been ah checking it out from the beginning. It's a ah solid show. Strongest recommendation from the Anderson household. Greg famously doesn't listen to podcasts, but you need doesn't listen to podcast guy on the show, I think. I don't listen to podcasts. I mean, I've just started to, but I respect, you know, abstaining. Yeah. You need that voice to keep you from getting podcast brain, I think.
01:24:17
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. But Lucy, what do you, what do you have going on? Is there anything that you want to plug any place people should track you down? Yeah, I'm on a podcast called Buntavista with three other Australians. I don't know how you describe it. We talk about strange news stories from around the world. And then I have a podcast about the TV shows Monk and The Good Doctor, which is causing me weekly psychic damage. We talk about autism and OCD through the lens of those two shows. I'm also on Blue Sky. I still have a Twitter account for some reason, but my name on both is Lucy XIV.
01:24:54
Speaker
Well, check all that stuff out, Lucy. And I'll tell you also listeners, Anna and I are part of the listening group to some of guard who do not watch either monk or the good doctor. Perfect. Yeah. You do not need to watch them.
01:25:09
Speaker
You can just enjoy. absolutely I have watched monk, but like as it was airing, I've had to watch several episodes of The Good Doctor. I was forced to for a job. And that's one heck of a show is what I will say. That's one hell of a show. Yeah. yeah listeners Well, while you got your phone in your hand, before you fast forward or you go do whatever else going to do, if you're still listening at this point, why don't you just just give us that five stars?
01:25:40
Speaker
Five stars is free, brother. That's what I always say. And ah come back next week. We're going to be talking ah ah Christmas movies. We're starting off our Christmas spectacular. We're starting off with my pick, the boy who saved Christmas.
01:25:56
Speaker
Don't let the generic title of that fool fool you. No, it's a wild one. It's really wild. So don't miss that. And ah until next time, here's just a little sample of that ah musical number.
01:26:14
Speaker
And until next week, be good and goodbye. goodbye Ready, Paul? Ready, Ma! We had a son who was trampled by ton of longhorns But you're here cutes to fill his boots as flat as they may be You'll yell, yippee-i-o at the rodeo till the day's done Then you'll make a lot of pals with buffalo gals Just leave some for me We'll barbecue sticks and stew feed you pumpkin pie Till you can's bigger than the big old Texans guys