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Episode 65: Moonwalker featuring Josh Boerman
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Josh Boerman, co-host of the podcasts Ill Conceived and The Worst of All Possible Worlds, is with us today and he’s brought the musical anthology film Moonwalker (1988). It’s a complicated film from a complicated star: Michael Jackson. While not having a narrative throughout the whole piece, the Smooth Criminal segment does spin a very strange tale and contains a well-known music video (which also gets a little weird). It’s certainly a film and a person that has us talking, so tune in!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:28
Speaker
That you would, that you could And you know that you should Yes, you know that you should
00:00:41
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. We're the only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:53
Speaker
Well, we're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson, and with me, as always, I have the man in my mirror,
Meet Josh Borman, Special Guest
00:01:00
Speaker
Mr. Greg Bossy. How are you, Greg? Hello, Chris. Yes, I'm doing well. I got a new pair of shoes today, wearing them right now. They feel fantastic.
00:01:08
Speaker
Oh, my How are you? i'm I'm hanging in, brother. I'm hanging in. My wife is not here with us this week due to dental work. Prayers up for my wonderful wife, Anna.
00:01:18
Speaker
But we do have a very special guest with us this week. ah You might know him as a co-host of Worst of All Possible Worlds. You might even know him as a co-host of his new podcast about the natalism movement in America, Ill-Conceived.
00:01:35
Speaker
But on this show, he's certainly a very big guest. So he's our own personal Mr. Big. It's Josh Borman. Hey, folks, how you doing? I only hope that I can live up to ah your your expectations. That's a very magnanimous introduction.
00:01:48
Speaker
Well, hey, we like to roll out the red carpet. And ah you're here. You're on a sort of no pods declined tour. And you're promoting your new podcast, Ill Conceived, I'm imagining. Yeah. I mean, in general, to be really honest with you, I just like going on podcasts for the love of the game.
00:02:10
Speaker
If somebody offers me the opportunity to go on their show, there are almost no circumstances under which I will refuse an offer. And I mean that genuinely. All right, listeners, reach out.
00:02:21
Speaker
No, seriously, do it. Yeah. ah But i I want to thank you for taking on this natalist
Josh's New Podcast: 'Ill-Conceived'
00:02:30
Speaker
movement. We don't get too political on here, but I will say that Greg and I were talking about it before the show, that it is sort of a genuinely disturbing ah yeah contemporary movement.
00:02:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, we ah so basically the show ill conceived is a show about the natalist movement, which sees declining birth rates as the most important thing in American politics.
00:02:51
Speaker
I've been doing it with my friend June, June Sternbach, a.k.a. Juniper on Blue Sky and all of the various social media platforms. Been doing it for a few weeks now, and we've already been getting a lot of really good feedback. And it's It's not.
00:03:06
Speaker
I would say it's fun and it is actually fun to make. It's not fun to stare down the barrel of that kind of horror week after week. But sure. I have to to get a sense of perspective. I will say the worst of all possible worlds, which is the media ah podcast that I co-host.
00:03:23
Speaker
We tend to look at good stuff there more frequently, which isn't to say that we're always looking at stuff that's good. We also look at a lot of really bad and heinous shit there, too, particularly in the evangelical Christian tradition. But generally speaking, we're not looking at like, quote unquote, bad movies unless we think they have an interesting ideological angle that makes them interesting to
Michael Jackson's 'Moonwalker': A Deep Dive
00:03:45
Speaker
unpack.
00:03:45
Speaker
So when you offered me the chance to come on the show, I was like, I want to talk about Moonwalker. Because Michael Jackson's Moonwalker is a wild ass movie that I think is very bad.
00:03:56
Speaker
But also has some unbelievable moments that are really, really fantastic. Just absolutely. right up wait ah And there are moments that are so ludicrous that you're like, what? Like genuinely, how did this? How many things needed to go wrong for this to happen?
00:04:16
Speaker
And then how many things needed to go right to get it out the door. And that's why i love moon Walker so much. yeah It is truly a bizarre viewing. Oh yes. Oh yes. Greg, had you seen this one before?
00:04:28
Speaker
No, I thought that I had seen clips of it. Like I have a memory of walking through a movie theater and like watching Michael Jackson beat up a car. I was like, they would probably showing a clip of moon Walker. I imagine. Or I also thought I had a memory of Marlon Brando and Macaulay Culkin in a cafe in Morocco, but it turns out that was Chris Tucker, not Macaulay Culkin.
00:04:47
Speaker
Okay. And both of those things were not this movie. This easier. Chris Tucker, Macaulay Culkin, commonly confused with each other. I understand. I understand. They both have a certain boyishness about them. Yes, they do. ah So yeah, this was ah this was a shock and a surprise to me all the way through.
00:05:05
Speaker
Uh, I, I remember watching this. I want to say in middle school, in gym class, like they gave you the option of either you could go upstairs and play basketball or you'd stay downstairs and watch a movie and just use the rowing machine. So it's like, yeah, okay.
00:05:23
Speaker
I don't want to play basketball. I'm completely uncoordinated. I'll just sit down here and do this.
Analyzing 'Moonwalker' and Jackson's Career
00:05:28
Speaker
This is fine. I love TV. TV is amazing to me. And one time the VHS tape they put on was Moonwalker.
00:05:35
Speaker
that but And ah the only thing I remembered was some of the claymation stuff going on during Leave Me Alone. Oh, yeah. Those really, really horrifying claymation puppets.
00:05:47
Speaker
There's a lot of... Okay, listeners, I forgot the short summary. Yeah, yeah. And this is a very hard film to summarize. Yeah, it really is. If you at home have not seen Moonwalker, here's just a short summary to hold in your mind so you know what we're talking about here.
00:06:09
Speaker
The most popular musician in the world, Michael Jackson, leads us through a stream of consciousness retrospective of his career, from his earliest to his biggest hits, to even a couple of new bangers, to show the audience sheer majesty of the King of Pop.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah. We're not a little Spanish-ly. So how do you guys feel about MJ in general, if you had to say? ah Because we can't talk about one without talking about the other. exactly.
00:06:42
Speaker
I would describe my feelings on Michael Jackson as complicated. And I think that that is the case with most people. yeah um I think that there was something about watching this movie again where I'm like, oh no, he really was that guy.
00:06:55
Speaker
Like just a generational talent. they there There are nobody before him has ever done what he did and nobody after him ever will either. There are people who have tried to emulate what he's done.
00:07:07
Speaker
There are people who obviously have parodied what he's done, but he was such a singular artist who had this unbelievable raw, natural talent that then got forged in fire by his unbelievably abusive dad to make this singular voice. Right.
00:07:25
Speaker
And as a person, because of the fact that he had this horrific abuse in his childhood, that also led to him, ah maybe doing, uh, allegedly horrific things. It's hard to know yeah due to the fact that these, you know, there's always been this cloud that's followed him. It's hard to know how much of his psychosis then was pushed out into abuse. And it's something that I think we need to be honest about because it is weird also watching Moonwalker where most of the movie is about him protecting these children.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yes. Like, well, how does this square away this version of sort of his persona and who he was? How does it square away with the truth about who he was? Very difficult to ignore that while watching it.
00:08:12
Speaker
It's just impossible. Yeah. And also, I'm going to say very difficult to ignore. sort of how strange looking he was at this point. And he would only get more strange looking after this, but already in the closeups where they are showing his nose, the surgery that they did on this,
00:08:31
Speaker
really did not end up in a good place. And like, and there are a couple of times where he's like tearing his shirt off and you can tell that he's like in the throes of an eating disorder, but he was such an icon that yeah none of, none of that entered the public consciousness. You could overlook all of it.
00:08:50
Speaker
Because he was the biggest thing there was. It's also one of those classic things, too, where when somebody gets to that level of fame, there are so many people who surround you and pretend to be your friends so that they can get something out of you.
00:09:03
Speaker
And because he very clearly had an extremely childlike brain, i I think that it was hard for him to differentiate between the people who actually cared about him and the people who were trying to get close to him because they saw an opportunity to hitch their wagon to his star and get somewhere or take some of his money or whatever.
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, because obviously, you know, Michael Jackson had enough money on hand at any given moment to idly make someone wealthy for the rest of their life. Right. You know what mean? yeah Yeah.
00:09:39
Speaker
Well, you guys want to talk about ah the context research that I put in on ah Moonwalker here? Yes, please. All right.
00:09:59
Speaker
I wish I had some context About the background of the film Script director and who's on set What was going on on screen wanna hear some details Gossips can do all that shit Can't imagine all the time
00:10:26
Speaker
That's incredible that you got Michael Jackson to do that for you. Well, we've got the touch. ah So Moonwalker came out October 29th, 1988, just in time for Halloween.
00:10:38
Speaker
Perfect. There are several lists of director. The main one, i think, was Jerry Kramer, just because I think he was would have been the guy that did any sort of framing ah you know between the individual segments. More like Jerry Framer.
00:10:53
Speaker
ha ha ha ha. But you also got Colin Thivers, Will Vinton, and Jim Blushfeld. All seem to be pretty much guns for hire working to create a vision for Michael Jackson.
00:11:08
Speaker
I found, i believe, seven different taglines for this movie. Wow. That might be a record. Here they come. From the imagination of Michael Jackson comes a movie like no other.
00:11:22
Speaker
That's true. That is 100% true. Number two, just simply a movie like no other. Sure. Yeah, okay.
00:11:32
Speaker
I think you could say that about most movies. Yeah. oh I mean, depending on how far you want to stretch like, I don't know. Anyway, an adventure like no other. Okay. I don't know about that one. Yeah, that one's stretching a little bit there. We're going.
00:11:47
Speaker
That's really generic at this point. ah Enter the realm of the moonwalker. Okay. not That, that... yeah I mean, if he had played a character called the moonwalker, would be different. it's it's It's not a bad tagline. It's just not a good tagline for this movie called Moonwalker.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah. I would definitely see any other movie if it had did the tagline enter the realm of the moonwalker. No, As soon as you said it, I was like, I want to see that movie. I was like, wait, I have seen the movie we're talking about, though.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good tagline for Apollo 13. Well, actually, not really. Shit. yeah was a Maybe for like conquest. some I'm thinking like a swords and sorcery situation. Sure.
00:12:33
Speaker
All right. One giant leap into the future of home video. Okay. now we're Now we're not. No, that's weird. That's that's corporate babble right there. That's, yeah.
00:12:44
Speaker
Okay. Here we go. Now we're talking. On his soul, a king of music. On his heart, a king of beats. Huh. What?
00:12:59
Speaker
First of all, i feel like that must have been for like a South American release. Yeah, but also he's not a king of music. He's the king of pop. Like, yeah right, you know? Yeah.
00:13:11
Speaker
Okay, here's this last one might be my favorite. In between each of these words, imagine ellipses. Robot. Supercar. Spaceship.
00:13:23
Speaker
Star. A superstar. Megastar. I think that's pretty accurate. I'm not sure how effective it is as as a tagline, but it definitely describes the movie.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yes. Sure. and And several things that appear in the movie. Definitely. I feel like it gives some things away in a way that I don't expect. Yeah, that's true. That is a bit of a spoiler alert I feel like we should throw in for Michael Jackson turns into a car and then a robot and then a spaceship.
00:13:56
Speaker
Yes. Each one cooler than the last. Now, uh... Let's see. So I mentioned before Jerry Kramer. He's directed the framing narrative, so he could be considered the primary director here. He could also be considered Jerry Framer. And I just really wanted to make sure that that really good joke got heard a second time.
00:14:17
Speaker
i I'm glad that you did that, and I appreciate it. ah He mostly directed music videos, working with bands like Styx and Jefferson Starship and John Fogerty.
00:14:29
Speaker
The only video of his that I was personally familiar with was Rod Stewart's Some Guys Have All the Luck. So seemed like he was mostly working with like 70s acts trying to break into the music video world in the nineteen eighty s He did direct not the video for Thriller, but the making of Thriller, the behind the scenes VHS tape.
00:14:51
Speaker
So I imagine that's how we got us in with Jackson. So... Let's talk Michael Jackson for a second. Normally we run on the auteur theory here at your favorite bad movie podcast, but let's face it.
00:15:05
Speaker
When Michael Jackson is both the star and executive producer of an anthology film covering his life and music, the director is not going to be the primary author of this work. No, it's gotta be MJ.
00:15:20
Speaker
So who is Michael Joseph Jackson? Hmm. Hmm. It's hard for me to imagine anyone over the age of 30 not knowing, but any off chance that anyone listening doesn't know, let's call him the Taylor Swift of the 80s, but maybe times a factor of 20. No, no, no. I'm not going to let you do that. wow Okay. i that's She's, I'm going to say, as close as we have to a contemporary reigning monarch of pop.
00:15:47
Speaker
I suppose. Okay, fine. I'll allow it. And what but maybe what Beyonce was like 10 years ago. Right. Like the the defining artist of the era, certainly.
00:15:58
Speaker
He was massively successful, era-defining pop star. In 1982, he released the highest selling album of all time, Thriller. In 1987, he released the album Bad, which was the number one selling album of both 1987 and 1988. That's crazy.
00:16:15
Speaker
that's crazy And it was the first album to ever produce five number one singles. He was also the kind of guy that would land somewhere, as we've been hinting on a spectrum between very weird and very evil.
00:16:27
Speaker
ah He had an ah addiction to cosmetic surgery, a lot of which appeared to be intended to make him look less black. Well, I mean, also a big piece of it was that he had vitiglio or at least he he claimed as such, you know, so his skin ah did not have even coloration, would become more unevenly discolored over time.
00:16:48
Speaker
Another huge piece of it is that, as previously mentioned, his dad was a massive piece of shit who called him yeah ugly and horrible all the time, which is crazy because if you go back and look at Michael Jackson from like the off the wall era, he is beautiful.
00:17:03
Speaker
He is a yeah gorgeous, yeah gorgeous man. Yeah. It, it, he really, you could tell that this was a symptom of something inside of him.
00:17:14
Speaker
You know what I mean? Uh, he also, uh, allegedly attempted to buy the elephant man's skeleton. Uh, also while he was never convicted of molesting children, he sure did hang out with a lot of children overnight.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah. It was at the height of his fame, right after his bad world tour, that he produced moon Walker. Uh, it's an anthology film. One might call it a visual album.
00:17:39
Speaker
Sure. I've said this before on at least three other movies on the show. I want to say, but there would be no Beyonce's lemonade without Michael Jackson's moon. Yeah.
00:17:50
Speaker
Uh, this time I might actually agree with you. Fair enough. You were less sanguine when I said it about the apple, I think. Yeah. But, uh, It's an anthology film and it covers a lot of ground, ah but a major theme of the piece is the emotional impact of being the most famous person on Earth and how he wishes his fans would focus more on his great tunes and less on the hyperbaric chamber he sleeps in or the chimpanzee that he took with him to Japan or the children he would soon be credibly accused of sexually assaulted.
00:18:24
Speaker
and The play was fairly successful. It's interesting too, because it is his perspective. And this is the one thing where I do agree with you, I guess, about the whole Taylor Swift comparison, right? In terms of the sheer amount of fame that he had in the way that it sort of distorts your perspective on the world.
00:18:41
Speaker
I think it's fair to say that there is nothing in Moonwalker that you could consider even remotely relatable if you're a normal person. Yes. The world is so bizarre and so distorted, and but because it is so clearly a manifestation of his singular artistic vision, it is fascinating to watch.
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, he's clearly a man who's lived like his entire life in a glass cage of fame, right? You know, yeah just completely alienated
The US Release of 'Moonwalker'
00:19:12
Speaker
from the world. Uh, but, uh,
00:19:15
Speaker
Moonwalker did not receive a theatrical release in the States, but it raked in $67 million dollars in the European South American box office. It was released in the U.S. s on January 10th, 1989, with a manufacturer's suggested retail price of $21.50. So it was direct to VHS?
00:19:34
Speaker
Yes. yeah and Do we know why? I think they just weren't able to secure a distribution deal, ah but I can't be 100% sure. It's just surprising because it's see because ah I know Warner did the direct-to-video distribution, but you would think that you'd be able to see enough upside to do a theatrical release. It's it's very unusual.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, i wish I was surprised when I found out about it. Yeah. Who can say? Maybe they were kicking themselves afterwards. It could also be that it was something to do with... Because around this time, too, there was like you know Captain EO and all that. like I wonder if perhaps the deals that Michael Jackson had with like Disney maybe had something to do with this in terms of restrictions on distribution. Although, again, this was Warner, not Disney. So who can say?
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah. Or... You know, this they might have been thinking this is more something that we want people to purchase, you know, like an album, thinking of it more in terms of album.
00:20:32
Speaker
Because it is a very album-like experience. And yeah I feel like if I went to see this in the theater, I might have walked away befuddled. I mean, apparently Warner was originally going to release it on Christmas in 1988. And then they just decided not to.
00:20:50
Speaker
written it Maybe they got cold feet, maybe... Maybe they found some dirt that they didn't want to find. ah But in any case, I think maybe that lack of theatrical release in the States might be why it doesn't have much of a cultural legacy today. You never really hear people talking about Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, I want to say.
00:21:09
Speaker
it was never released on Blu-ray or DVD in the States. It just received a region-free Blu-ray release in the UK in 2010. which was slightly edited to remove a bit where Joe Pesci threatens to inject someone with heroin.
00:21:24
Speaker
I didn't see Joe Pesci threaten to inject anyone with heroin in my cut, so I have gotten don't recall seeing that. No, no, I think I must have gotten that cut as well. It's a pretty good master, I will say. ah Yeah, it's a very nice looking.
00:21:35
Speaker
The Blu-ray transfer, it's not amazing, but it's it's good. So just to put it in context, normally we like to talk about other films in the same genre that year, but I think this is so genre-less.
00:21:46
Speaker
I just looked up some of the more memorable music videos of 1988. Okay. okay So you got Sweet Child O' Mine. Okay.
00:21:57
Speaker
What happens in that one? Um, I think that's mostly Axel doing the snake dance. Oh, okay. So not, not much to write home about. Just live performance.
00:22:08
Speaker
I remember right. Like in a, in some interesting space. Yeah. Like a, a graffiti double warehouse, maybe something like that. You got a simply irresistible with Robert Palmer and his hot lady band.
00:22:23
Speaker
Uh, you got a father figure.
00:22:28
Speaker
George Harrison's I Got My Mind Set On You. oh yeah. Yeah. With all the taxidermied animals, if I remember right. You got Will Smith's Parents Just Don't Understand.
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah. That's wild. Just thinking about, like, the cultural moment that this movie finds itself in. like it's Yeah. during It's during the rise of the Fresh Prince. That's crazy.
00:22:53
Speaker
Don't Worry, Be Happy. Yep. Fast Car by Tracy Chapman. And of course the fat boys featuring chubby checker, the twist.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The fat boys were in the mix. Well, with that, I would say, do you want to talk about the plot of moon Walker, but it doesn't really so much have a plot as it has a series of things that happen.
00:23:18
Speaker
Do you want to talk about the things that happened in moon Walker? Yeah, absolutely. That's what I'm here for.
00:23:42
Speaker
Plot bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:23:54
Speaker
Plot bumper, plot bumper.
00:24:08
Speaker
So we open on footage of Michael Jackson performing live at an arena during his band tour, and he's performing my favorite Michael Jackson song, Man in the Mirror.
Opening with 'Man in the Mirror'
00:24:18
Speaker
It's great so Great way to start a movie.
00:24:20
Speaker
And this is, as best as I can tell, actually compiled together from a number of different tour stops on his, I think... um European stadium tour. bank Because if you look at the signs ah that are like in the middle of the thing, ah there's Milton Keynes, London.
00:24:37
Speaker
think Stuttgart was one of them. ah So, and and oh my God, this is like him at the absolute fucking peak of his powers. You've got girls fainting, people crowd surfing, everybody's screaming.
00:24:50
Speaker
Massive crowds. Unbelievable stuff. And so this is really well shot and edited too. Uh, it's a great reminder of just like how fantastic a performer he was. Cause like, I kind of forgot it's been time. And as soon as you see this, you're just immediately just like that.
00:25:07
Speaker
he He just has it. He has something. i can't look away. It's electric. It's exciting. it's kind of crazy. And I think my only complaint, I wish they had used the live audio.
00:25:20
Speaker
It is just the the studio version with a little bit of like vamping added at the end. And that's a shame. Also, ah note worth noting, everything that he can that allows him to bring it in these full live concert performances, that is a skill that he does not have for acting.
00:25:38
Speaker
um He is not in any way, shape or form a magnetic screen presence, but he's an incredible stage presence. yeah Yeah. So the whole crowd, they're just losing their shit as MJ performs this classic hit about introspection and personal accountability, which is ironic because at no point in this film does Jackson do anything even approaching introspection.
00:26:00
Speaker
No, no. In fact, he barely even talks in this film, ah preferring to let the music do the talking for him. He's very much ah cipher in this film. You don't walk away knowing anything about Michael Jackson you didn't know when you started.
00:26:15
Speaker
I mean, I think a piece of it is that he, at this point, saw himself as a singular transformative figure, ah almost a messiah-like figure. Because these concert shots are intercut with shots of other major peacemakers.
00:26:31
Speaker
um and There is a shot of Jimmy Carter with ah Anwar Sadat and Meghan at the um Camp David Accords. There is a shot of Gandhi. There's a shot of Gorbachev and Reagan. There's a shot of Lech Walesa.
00:26:46
Speaker
There's a shot of MLK, Bobby Kennedy. Yeah. john It ends with ones that have all been assassinated. Exactly. Yeah. before yeah And John Lennon.
00:26:57
Speaker
Because I think that he may well have seen. i do believe that at this point he saw himself as a figure that potentially could have been assassinated as well.
00:27:08
Speaker
Because this I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that. no given what oftentimes happened to high profile pop culture figures who were seriously agitating for some sort of a specific project.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a theme in throughout the whole thing of people shooting Michael Jackson as well. Yeah. Yeah. He is constantly being hunted in this movie. Yes.
00:27:36
Speaker
But, and Like at no point i don't really think of Jackson as being like an advocate, you know, I mean, obviously he did. We are the world, but I never really like associated him with like a lot of message, you advocacy or, or what's the word I'm looking for.
00:27:54
Speaker
He didn't strike me as ah somebody was out there using his fame to do very
Jackson's Musical Legacy
00:28:01
Speaker
much. No, I don't think he had a coherent political project, but then again, neither did John Lennon.
00:28:06
Speaker
yeah um And I think that this is the thing that really comes across from this first bit of the movie is his paranoia and the way that he thinks that what his music is doing is bringing about unprecedented change.
00:28:22
Speaker
Like he is telling everyone that if they want to make the world a better place, then look, look in the mirror and make a change. Right. and And, I think he, he truly believes that that is ah world historical in and of itself.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah. I guess, yeah. He's sparking a thousand changes. h Even though he never does actually take that look in the mirror. Well, i just don't think that he has or ever had a coherent theory of change in a political yeah sense.
00:28:55
Speaker
Because... yeah That's not his job. He's a musician. Well, right. and it And it makes sense given his upbringing as well, where it was just all about you have to perform, perform, perform, perform.
00:29:05
Speaker
And so he is seeing that performance as his unique contribution to the improvement of the world around him. And I think that's why the the film is sort of so unrevealing is because it's just another performance. This is not yeah a documentary about Michael Jackson. This is a Michael Jackson show that you're watching.
00:29:25
Speaker
ah Now, from there, we move on to part two of the film Retrospective, a 10 minute medley composed of 21 Jackson hits, starting with the Jackson five and then kicking off his solo career with the song Ben from the movie Ben. Either you guys seen Ben?
00:29:40
Speaker
I have not seen Ben. It's strange. It's a strange movie, but it has its charms. There are lot of rats if you like rats. So I was going to ask, was this the one with the rats? Because there was all these clips of like rats looking at newspaper clippings of Michael Jackson performing. And I was just like, what what is happening?
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That was a movie about a killer rat ah that was trained by a guy. And then the rats turned on the guy that trained the rats. How about that? And it yeah I think it was either sequel to or had a sequel called Willard, which the Crispin Glover movie was a ah remake of the two of them.
00:30:15
Speaker
I think an interesting piece about this part, too, is that, yeah, you're seeing sort of a retrospective of all of his music videos. You're also seeing a close up of it's it's a long pan before they start showing like the videos.
00:30:28
Speaker
There's a long pan across all of his personal effects. yeah There's like dozens of gloves Um, there's some of his costume pieces. There's the moon man that he won for thriller.
00:30:39
Speaker
ah just, yeah it's an interesting series of shots because it's sort of trying to, I think on some level, put you in his head space or make you empathetic, I guess, toward like what his life looks like.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah, at the very least, ah remind you, this is who Michael Jackson is. You know what mean? You know Michael Jackson. He's the guy. There he is, a photo with him with Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas working on Captain EF.
00:31:08
Speaker
And it's it's myth building, too. yeah It's like this is the mythology of Michael. And as you said, ah Chris, like we're not learning anything about him. We're just remembering some shit that he did.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah. And this is the perfect point in the film to have this kind of stuff being like, here's the main thing that it reminded me of was that I thought all of his best songs were with the Jackson five, but, uh, that is, that is a wild opinion.
00:31:32
Speaker
You really think that his work with the Jackson five is better than shit like thriller? Really? i mean, i i feel like gi me one more chance. ABC. Those are such bangers. They're good.
00:31:47
Speaker
They're good, but, Oh, man. Huh. Hey, hot take. And i who knows? I might feel different if you ask me tomorrow. But that's how I certainly felt when I was watching, because when those came on, i was like, yeah.
00:32:00
Speaker
ah But anyway, we get ah Bits and Bobs of Jackson Ephemera, his Grammys, Captain EO set. And then we see at first what we think will be Michael Jackson's iconic music video for the song Bad.
00:32:17
Speaker
But instead of the original video, it's a remake where all the original performers have been replaced by children. Yeah, i I had forgotten about this. This is this is such a funny reveal because yeah they did a perfect job. The whole thing is on a soundstage. They didn't actually go back to White Skimmerhorn Station in New York to do this.
00:32:37
Speaker
They just built a station that looks exactly like it. But like there's little details that I noticed. For instance, the sign rather than the sign that says to all trains, it says to all choo choos.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, wow. They did a really good job of ah imitating the old video, getting all these little kids in costumes. so cute. They're very cute. It's very fun. It's very sweet.
00:33:00
Speaker
And you try not to think about, like, why are there so many children? Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to. Yeah. The clouds always there. but Also, that kid who they got to be, Michael, that kid is so talented.
00:33:14
Speaker
no he's good. That is Brandon Adams. ah You might know him from The Mighty Ducks. Oh. He was also in Sandlot. and He was also in Children Under the Stairs.
00:33:25
Speaker
Okay. So, yeah, after this video, that's part three. And then somebody calls cut and we're on to part four of the movie.
00:33:36
Speaker
And it turns out that little MJ is just an actor in the bad music video being shot in a film studio. And then when he steps into a fog bank and emerges, he's now adult Michael Jackson.
00:33:47
Speaker
hmm. This is how we know Michael Jackson himself is just essentially a big kid. Right. so Yeah. I think that's kind of the idea here is this is the Michael Jackson that exists inside of Michael Jackson's own mind.
Jackson's Eternal Child Persona
00:34:00
Speaker
um And I think this is essentially true, even though the way they do it is a little bit of a contrivance. the thing that makes that's always made the whole thing with Michael Jackson so difficult for me is that he does have very kind eyes and his whole thing is so clearly the product of a childhood where he wasn't allowed to be a child.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah. So, I think that all of the genuine desire to be a child again and to reach back to sort of these childlike, and to to experience childhood moments as an adult, I think all of that is very real, but it also sits alongside these very, very credible allegations Yeah.
00:34:44
Speaker
One does not preclude the other, obviously, but raw sexuality and sensuality are also a big part of Michael Jackson's work. And even they are portrayed in this movie as being two very different things where you've got the kid's side and the sexy Michael side, never the twain shall meet.
00:35:02
Speaker
It does kind of beggar belief a little bit that there would never be any overlap of these two things at all. It's also weird to see them next to each other, just like right in the stark contrast of each other and be like, they're not related. It's like, but they're in the same thing together.
00:35:17
Speaker
you chose to put them in. And it's not like you're even showing me like a third thing. you know Yeah. No, it's like there are these children who are running around and then all of a sudden we're with Michael Jackson doing this choreography where he's humping the ground.
00:35:30
Speaker
The kids aren't watching him, but it's still there. Yeah. And presumably the kids are in the audience of the movie. He had a huge following. That too. bro exactly like Yeah. This is probably mostly like the people watching this movie are mostly going to be children because this is clearly a movie that is made for children.
00:35:47
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's it the next segment. He ends up. Well, okay. Okay. to further that point. The next segment, uh, is spotted on the studio backlot by some tourists who are sometimes grotesque claymation and sometimes just, uh, giant, foam heads that match the scale.
00:36:09
Speaker
Um, and obviously he doesn't want to deal with these freaks, his fans. Uh, and he doesn't want to deal with a paparazzi or the Hollywood types, one of whom is clearly a Steven Spielberg type.
00:36:21
Speaker
ah And they all begin ah chasing him around the back lot. So he ducks into wardroom storage and he dons the perfect disguise. That of an anthropomorphic claymation rabbit that dresses like a pallet swapped Michael Jackson.
00:36:38
Speaker
yep
00:36:40
Speaker
So now we can at least confirm that MJ's fursona is a rabbit. Right. Anybody who's wondering, we've got it. And then now that he's essentially a ah cartoon rabbit, he goes and does cartoon rabbit stuff. He changes shapes.
00:36:57
Speaker
And there's a big theme in this of Michael Jackson changing shapes. Physically. Yeah, changes into just different things. He can morph in almost every one of these segments.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah. which is strange. I think if you want to look at it psychologically, it is this is obviously what he wishes he could do. This is wish fulfillment that yeah when I'm being chased down by the paparazzi, I wish I could simply become a silly little bunny and they wouldn't notice me.
00:37:29
Speaker
i I wish that when all of my haters were confronting me, I could simply become a car and drive them over, right? it's there's not There's not much subtext here. This is, I think, a very literal portrayal of his fantasy.
00:37:46
Speaker
Fair enough. but So this fourth segment is called Speed Demon. I do not remember this song at all. Speed Demon! No! this was a weird one song wise. I was just like, what is this song?
00:37:58
Speaker
It's a strange song. Very weird. He eventually escapes his pursuers by leading them into the clutches of a 30 foot tall police officer. Not before he turns into Pee Wee Herman, though.
00:38:11
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, another adult loved by children everywhere. Unjustly punished for sex. I was going to say, Pee Wee Herman kept his adult life and his child-facing life fully separate from each other. Yes. yeah ah Now, let's see. MJ ditches his fursuit by the side of the road only for it to come to life and the two of them to have a dance off, which MJ can only win just like another MJ in a little movie called Space Jam by embracing his own cartoonishness and doing an impossibly cartoonish act.
00:38:44
Speaker
And it's interesting that both these iconic MJs did sort of have run-ins with cartoons. Just a little parallel there. Yeah. Then it's off to the fifth segment of the film, music video for the song Leave Me Alone, the only part that I remembered from my childhood.
00:39:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah. The dogs in business suits. Yeah. ah I specifically remember the dancing elephant man bones. Yeah. um This was not one of his biggest, not one of his biggest hits.
00:39:15
Speaker
No. The video is ah mostly an animated photo collage, it looks like. I thought this was so fucking cool. The way that this video was directed. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:27
Speaker
And it really worked with the song. i this is, I think there's a reason why I remembered it. You know what I mean? I feel like it is sort of one of the more impactful moments. This is also the, the, the climax of the video right at the very end is that you've got Michael Jackson, who is essentially entombed by this gigantic amusement park, and he finally manages to you know break free of the shackles of like this roller coaster that's holding him down in all of these little fun tents and shit.
00:39:58
Speaker
and And he reasserts, I guess, his independence over the media carnival that has become his life. Yeah, yeah. The Gulliver's Travels moment. And sort of the way the last segment was like, I wish my fans would leave me alone. This one is much more, I wish the media would leave me alone.
00:40:16
Speaker
We see references to ah the shrine to Elizabeth Taylor he allegedly built. The elephant man skeleton bubbles the chimp. His snake muscles. Ironically, in the decade to come, I'm sure Jackson would be fiending for this kind of press coverage as opposed to the kind that he got.
00:40:33
Speaker
including his addiction to plastic surgery. That time he laughed as he held his baby out over a balcony. yeah And ah once again, for the allegations and I don't have a place to bring this. Well, anyway. Okay. So then it's off to the next segment, the penultimate segment, the centerpiece of the film, the one that takes up the greatest chunk of the
The 'Smooth Criminal' Segment
00:40:55
Speaker
runtime. I want to say somewhere 35, 40 minutes.
00:40:58
Speaker
That sounds about right. And this is the smooth criminal. Yeah. So we start off with a trio of children. One, Brandon Adams, who we saw playing little MJ before.
00:41:10
Speaker
Two, John Lennon's son, Sean Lennon. I didn't know that was Sean Lennon. so That was little Sean Lennon.
00:41:20
Speaker
And also some white girl named Kate. Good for her. Yeah. Who who in the in the film is is named Katie. there She's kate playing a character named Katie. So there you go. yeah Easy peasy.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah. ah Brandon's character in this is named Zeke for some reason. But they look down from a rooftop as ah Michael Jackson in a white suit and fedora leaves his apartment building.
00:41:44
Speaker
I think it should be noted that these children are Dickensian urchins for some reason. Yes. It's very hard to clock what time period this takes place. And when they are like scuttling along the roof like they're clandestine assassins or something. Yes. It's very weird.
00:41:59
Speaker
It looks like they're like sneaking over to steal an apple from a fruit stand. Yeah. Yeah. Or they're like going to scope out the place before the bank heist. They're casing a joint. Yeah. Now, ah let's see.
00:42:11
Speaker
His apartment is instantly surrounded by men armed with machine guns that have cool little red counters on them to let you know how many bullets are left. And they open fire. Kate the child yells in terror before we fade to a flashback of a more idyllic time.
00:42:29
Speaker
Which was very confusing. This flashback is basically the football scene from The Room. Like, you know the scene where they're throwing the pigskin back and forth in Golden Gate Park? Except for some reason they're playing football with a soccer ball.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yes! Yes! So confusing! I didn't catch that. I didn't catch that somehow. There's a dog there. Go along, go along. And he has a soccer ball under his arm.
00:42:55
Speaker
Bizarre. There's a dog there. The dog gets the ball. That dog is going to be imperiled later on, obviously. yeah yeah That's Skipper the dog. And when Skipper runs off at the soccer ball, Kate and MJ give chase and they run into the woods where they find a cave.
00:43:11
Speaker
And the cave has a hidden door. And this happens to me all the time. um did that Happens us all. This happened to the other week and it was really unfortunate. I think the reason that the room comparison jumped out to me so much is that like Tommy Wiseau is one of the only people out there who is as weird as Michael Jackson, like that's fair specific way, you know? yeah And I want to say also they have more in common fashion wise. than you Yes.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, you're similar silhouettes. Yes. That it's mostly like the hair. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, the tight jeans with too many belts could rock too many belts for sure.
00:43:48
Speaker
and And I think Wiseau could wear some marching band jackets. Oh, God. would it. The problem with Tommy Wiseau is he's just a little too dumpy to like really pull it off. but Yeah. Yeah, he's not the lean cut man of the room with that Harvey Keitel bod that we remember 20 years ago.
00:44:06
Speaker
ah So ah Skipper runs off. the They find a cave with a hidden door. ah The hidden door conceals the secret layer of one Frankie, Mr. Big Lideo, played by Joe Pesci.
00:44:18
Speaker
What do you guys think of Joe Pesci? He's wild in this. is he's, he is really making strong choices, which I always appreciate. Like he could have totally mailed this in ah but no, he, he's really going for it. And Frankie's whole thing is that he needs to, well, he he's working on a plan because there's this big globe in front of him that's covered in tarantulas. I love his plan.
00:44:43
Speaker
His whole plan is to get kids to stop praying in school, number one. yep And number two, distribute drugs to all of America's cities. So he's going to get them to stop praying and then hook them on crack.
00:44:55
Speaker
That's the idea. Well, there's also bugs involved because I remember everyone chanting drugs and bugs, drugs and bugs. And I don't remember what the two have to do with each It is really unclear because they do have the crest of the organization is like a spider.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yes. It's unclear how the tarantulas actually factor into the plan. Well, first the customer, they get the drugs and then they get the bugs if they don't pay. Yeah.
00:45:25
Speaker
the The bugs are your enforcer. Oh, so you don't, when you don't pay for the crack, they send a bunch of tarantulas to your house. Is that the idea? Because tarantulas work cheap. That's not a very good plan. I don't think.
00:45:36
Speaker
So and this is one of those things, too, where the credit at the end of the movie says that this movie is based on a story by Michael Jackson. Yes. i love that it It makes me wonder what what was the original sort of direction for this as written by Michael Jackson?
00:45:55
Speaker
And then how much of this was then massaged into something interesting? even remotely intelligible by the writer and the director, right? Because you know that the original pitch must have been even fucking weirder, much like The Room was completely unintelligible in its first adaptation, and it had to get redrafted by somebody who actually knew what a plot was.
00:46:16
Speaker
I mean, I can only hope that somewhere there's Michael Jackson's original draft somewhere in the archives. I would love to read that. And the craziest thing to me is like the first, everything you've described takes place. And I feel like like two minutes.
00:46:33
Speaker
So it's so many wild swings. It's like we're with children. Then we're on a doorstep. Then it's a lot of people shooting. Then we're playing football and a dog has run away and now we're in a cave, but it's a secret door and now it's drugs and bugs.
00:46:44
Speaker
And it's like, that was two minutes away. It's very dreamlike. It's so crazy. It is so crazy. Now, ah Kate, she gets scared by one of the spiders.
00:46:56
Speaker
It happens. Yeah. Spiders are scary. Not to me, but. Well, but I'm built different. I'm scared of spiders. I'm scared of some. So ah then we cut back to the present.
00:47:08
Speaker
MJ has escaped the semicircle of gunmen unloading into him somehow. Also, for some reason, his suit has changed colors. That's right. It's the classic white suit, which if you know anything about Moonwalker or you've ever played either of the games, the Genesis game or the arcade game, it's the famous look where it's this white suit with blue accents. It looks gorgeous and it looks incredible on him.
00:47:30
Speaker
yeah Yeah. But for now, for some reason, he's wearing a black suit with a red armband. Red armband oh yeah always reads Nazi to You're right. Yes, it does. Hero suit transformation. this is This is when he's running around. He's he's wearing black. That's right.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah, I guess maybe he's trying to, like, lay low. And obviously a guy wearing a white suit with a white fedora is going to stand out. So then he proceeds to run away from the goons for like 10 minutes. Yeah, there's a very long chase scene with Mr. Big's thugs.
00:48:00
Speaker
They're chasing him through the rain. There are dogs. They chase him down a blind alley. Michael Jackson, luckily he has a way out of this blind alley. It's transforming into a concept car.
00:48:11
Speaker
That's right. Specifically the Lancia Stratos Zero. Oh, okay. I didn't know if this was actually a specific type of car. It is a specific car. There is only one Lancia Stratos to Zero.
00:48:23
Speaker
Okay. It was built in the 70s, and it looks sort of like a cross between a Lamborghini and a Cybertruck. okay But with such a powerful form, Michael easily escapes from the gunman.
00:48:38
Speaker
And then he meets up with the kids at Club Moments ago in Abandoned Nightclub. And now it's not abandoned anymore. Thanks to Michael Jackson's magic.
00:48:49
Speaker
That's right. he brings the club back to life and populates it with zoot suited dancing ne'er dwells for some reason. and And this is when he gets the white suit is after he has transformed back out of the Lancia. That's when he's wearing the white suit with the blue accents.
00:49:06
Speaker
And yeah, he's looking sharp. Very sharp. Oh, I had also forgotten in this, like the the the the smooth the smooth criminal bit, right? Which is what this is about to become.
00:49:18
Speaker
I had forgotten just how amazing the costumes are across the board. Everybody looks fucking amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Now that we're getting into the smooth criminal music video proper and we're done with whatever this crazy story is and you just get to have Michael Jackson singing and dancing, all of a sudden the movie comes alive and makes sense again.
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah. It's great.
00:49:42
Speaker
ah For some reason, in the middle of the music video, there's a brief dream ballet. Yeah, it felt like and a theater exercise. Yeah, it felt like an experimental dance class.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah. And this is also one of the moments where it gets very, very sexual. Yes, for sure. Extremely sexual. It sounds like an orgy um and it feels like an orgy and it's actually really hot. Like, I think it's incredibly cool and effective storytelling through choreography, which is always one of the things that Michael Jackson was best at.
00:50:14
Speaker
But yeah, fucking weird that it's in the middle of a children's movie. Yep. Uh, so, uh, once all the singing and dancing is done, Mr. Big's goons show up again. MJ shoots at them with the Tommy gun and screams and tries to look cool and tough.
00:50:29
Speaker
Uh, but then, uh, the thugs kidnap Kate. and MJ follows them back to Mr. Big's fortress. He has a fortress. Uh, uh, when Mr. Big comes up and starts slapping the child around, Joe Pesce's like, shut the fuck up and starts slapping this girl. It's really intense.
00:50:46
Speaker
Mm hmm. But Michael Jackson has a solution for this, and it is transforming into a giant robot. The giant robot is armed with a force field, laser beams, energy blasters, missile launchers and a sonic scream attack.
00:51:03
Speaker
Right. every that This is something that we've actually seen a couple times in the movie now, is that Michael Jackson has the ability to yell really loud and break glass. He does this during Smooth Criminal, ah and and he does it again at this point, except now that he's Mecca Michael and he's huge, when he screams, it's enough to shatter the masks of the goons who are pursuing him.
00:51:28
Speaker
Yes. It's awesome. This is I'm going to say, one of the coolest parts of the movie. I literally had to keep closing my jaw. like i was just like, you're going to hurt yourself. It goes on so long.
00:51:42
Speaker
And it just keeps topping itself. And it's also one of the craziest things I've ever seen. him Like the idea that Michael Jackson is turning into a giant robot is so bonkers to me.
00:51:54
Speaker
It's also like absolute peak late 80s CGI that they to put all of this together. It looks fantastic. Yeah. And I love that it has all these different weapon systems. It's like exactly what like a little boy would draw in their notebook. was like, and there are missiles on the arms. That's he's got to scream.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yes, this robot kicks ass. um It's really good. And if you if you if you play the arcade game, you get to pilot the big robot too. Yeah. Yeah. He then transforms into a vertical takeoff and landing aircraft, which Mr. Big shoots with a giant laser.
00:52:31
Speaker
But aircraft Michael brushes this off and dispatches of Mr. Big with lasers of his own and then flies away. Later, the kids all lament that Michael is gone, and Kate wishes on a paper star that he would return, and then he does.
00:52:49
Speaker
Yay! He reunites them with their dog, Skipper, before taking the stage once more to cover, I'm going to say, one of the worst Beatles songs, Come Together.
Critique of 'Come Together' Cover
00:53:00
Speaker
It's a bad cover, too. Yes. It is not good. No. Which is so strange because other than this, every musical performance is fantastic. Yeah. And this sucks.
00:53:11
Speaker
It's really bad. Yeah, it's like embarrassingly bad. It's bad both in terms of the musical side of it as well as the staging and direction. None of this works.
00:53:21
Speaker
And I had completely forgotten about this point. I thought the movie ended... with robot Michael Jackson slash super spacecraft airplane Michael Jackson flying away. I completely blanked this out of my head because it's not, it it's just bad in a way yeah that was surprising.
00:53:37
Speaker
Because as as I was sort of saying before, and and and as as as you were saying before as well, Greg, like when he is on his shit, when he is doing the choreo and the performance, Nobody else can do ah what Michael Jackson does before or since.
00:53:52
Speaker
But watching this, you if if this was the only thing of Michael Jackson's you had ever seen, you could be forgiven for being like, yeah, I don't get it. This guy's mid. Yeah. It's definitely, it has like big encore energy. It feels like very kind of phoned in and unnecessary.
00:54:08
Speaker
And the movie could be, I'm going to say 10% better if it was just chopped right off. I mean, the band the band is really cunty. The guy on the fucking, um, Keytar is awesome. Yes. My wife called out the keytar guy 100%.
00:54:22
Speaker
And i I think what doesn't work is that you've got these sort of like deliberately Dadaist nonsense lyrics. And then you have Michael Jackson like trying to put a lot of stank on his delivery. Yeah.
00:54:35
Speaker
Stank is like already a little bit out of Michael's wheelhouse sometimes. And so to do it with these like nonsense words, it's just like this just seems goofy and dumb. the the The other thing that's weird about it too is that the in the original is in a different tempo from the rest of the song. Whereas in this version, he locked it back into four or four and it just doesn't work.
00:54:57
Speaker
it's that's Interesting. that That's the thing. Because it's shu dong dongdo four. jungdongdongdong I think it's six eight. And then it shifts back into four or four for the rest of it.
00:55:08
Speaker
And you don't get that here. And yeah, just boring. Yeah. Yeah. But then luckily after that, as the credits roll, we get a nice little acapella moment with Lady Smith, Black Mombazo.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah. They're singing. The moon is walking. Get it. Yeah. Get it Really nice. No, it is really, it's a good performance. and And they're all also dressed up in those same ah costumes. The, the looks designed by Michael Bush and Dennis Tompkins.
00:55:38
Speaker
Iconic looks. They look fucking great. They do. Well, That was Moonwalker. Final thoughts, five-star ratings. Greg, why don't you kick us off? Okay, so for weirdness, we're giving this one a four.
00:55:52
Speaker
ah Some of it's pretty normal. Some of it isn't. ah Some of it is genuinely some of the strangest things I've ever seen, but that's partially just because it's Michael Jackson. ah Like, I never would have expected to watch Michael Jackson literally turn into a robot.
00:56:08
Speaker
Yeah. And now I have. So it's pretty weird. It's a pretty weird movie. I'm going to give that a four. Watchability. i think this one, I mean, it's ah it's got a it's got an appeal to it. I'm going to go three and a half, I think.
00:56:21
Speaker
I think it would be easy for some people to have trouble getting through the noise of Michael Jackson to see the product that's there. And also, I think there are some some of the, like, Speed Demon, Leave Me Alone, in all honesty, like, I don't really remember much of that one.
00:56:38
Speaker
Fair enough. Some of them. And that may just be because of the whole bonkers last 40 minutes. Like once I saw that, I kind of forgot a lot about everything else because I was just like, did he just shoot missiles?
00:56:51
Speaker
Did Michael Jackson just shoot missiles out of his shoulders? he li He did. He did do that. Yes. Yeah. It was cool as hell. Yeah. Yeah. It sure was. Fair enough. I landed very close to you, Greg. I gave it about ah three in terms of watchability.
00:57:07
Speaker
ah Lots of great music and dancing, even if three of the seven segments are built around sort of lesser work, you know, Speed Demon, Leave Me Alone, and Come Together. all you know But the problem is that ends up being like 20 minutes of a 90-minute movie where you're like...
00:57:24
Speaker
Uh, then, uh, for weirdness, I landed on a three, uh, Jackson himself was such an odd man, but he was also so ubiquitous that all the weirdness sort of became normalized to the point where he couldn't see it any anymore.
00:57:36
Speaker
Kind of like there was this guy in my hometown that we all call and almost everybody's hometown had a guy like this. We called him John the Acid Man. And the rumor was he fell asleep in a bathtub full of acid.
00:57:48
Speaker
And you'd see him like wandering around the mall wearing a sequined shirt and a gaucho hat with a big Fu Manchu mustache and aviators. And it be like, oh, yeah, that's John the Acid Man. He's a crazy guy.
00:57:59
Speaker
And the first time you're like, whoa, but like you see him two more times. you're like, oh, yeah, that's John. And like the whole world did that with Michael Jackson. ah So that's kind of weird, but it's hard to like experience it as weird. Yeah.
00:58:14
Speaker
What about you, Josh? Watchability and weirdness. How are you feeling? I think watchability is going to be somewhere between two and a half to three. um I think that the moments that are good are fucking fantastic, particularly Smooth Criminal and the core of it. The the actual yeah scene, the music video of Smooth Criminal might be the best Michael Jackson music video.
00:58:36
Speaker
Maybe it's certainly up there. Um, I think the other stuff too is, is pretty fun. I mean, i actually really liked the retrospective part. Um, so, you know, no, I'm bumping it up to a three, three, maybe even three and a half. The problem is the pacing of it is so all over the place yeah and everything with the children, except for the bad music video remake is so fucking awful.
00:59:01
Speaker
Like just genuinely unwatchable. Um, yeah, that I had to... i did not watch the whole thing in one sitting. you know I had forgotten how much of a drag some of it is. So I guess I'll give it a three and a half for watchability.
00:59:17
Speaker
i think for Weirdness, four feels about right. It is a controlled weirdness. It is a performative weirdness. But that doesn't take away from how singular it is to me. And i agree that like and that the moment where...
00:59:33
Speaker
Michael Jackson turns into the robot, becomes huge, screams out their visors by shattering them, and then fucking ah gets the rockets in there. It's great.
00:59:43
Speaker
it's It's just great, as is, ah you know, again, everything in the Smooth Criminals. ah the the the speakeasy scene which is similarly controlled weirdness but it's still so fun and so funny like the part where he uh michael's got a guy coming up behind him who's gonna stab him and then he does a no-looker like shooting him in the face with a revolver stuff like that yeah it's just fun and i really enjoyed that a lot Yeah, I think in general, listeners can say, check out highlights of Moonwalker on YouTube, and you'll probably be better off. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good one. Or just, yeah, just watch the Smooth Criminal video, honestly. Like, the actual music part of it.
01:00:26
Speaker
You don't necessarily need to watch anything else. um I mean, you should also watch the robot part. Yeah, you should watch the robot part. The robot pretty wild. Well, with that, let's head on to Act 3 of the show.
01:00:38
Speaker
And we've got a brand new segment. and Bumper heads. You know that means a brand new bumper. Yeah. It's game time.
01:00:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Good, good, good, good, good games. Video games. Video games. This movie inspired a video game.
01:01:05
Speaker
G-g-g-games. Video games. Video games. Ooh, it inspired a video game. You can't game me, but it is game time.
01:01:23
Speaker
That's right, it's game time. It's not the time when we're playing a game. That's next. That's the problem with this segment name. But it is game time. now ah Now, while Moonwalker was in production, Jackson approached the good people at Sega about making a video game starring Michael Jackson.
01:01:42
Speaker
Obviously, Sega was very interested in getting in the Michael Jackson business, so they were on board. Yeah, the guy, he prints money. So they ended up making two versions of ah Michael Jackson's Moonwalker.
01:01:56
Speaker
Uh, one ended up in the arcades. Another one ended up on the Sega console. There was also a port to PC that I think only had like four levels on it. Uh, might've had a different company involved.
01:02:08
Speaker
Uh, now the arcade version was a beat them up done in an isometric view while the console version was a side scrolling platformer. But beyond that, they were more or less the same. theyre couple like I think only one of them had Bubbles the Chimp in it.
01:02:24
Speaker
Only one of them could you pilot the robot. But you play as Michael Jackson in the smooth criminal music video. White suit, white fedora. ah You wander around city streets looking for children.
01:02:38
Speaker
But the children have been kidnapped by Mr. Big. You're and not just looking for loose children. That's not what you want.
01:02:45
Speaker
Bubbles would make an appearance in the game in every level ah when you find the last child and then take you to the boss of the level. You fight Mr. Big's henchmen by high kicking, shooting out blue magical sparks, or even tossing your cool fedora at them.
01:03:02
Speaker
ah You can also spend some hit points to cast a spell that forces all the enemies on screen to dance with you, which damages them somehow. And there would be like four different dance numbers.
01:03:15
Speaker
Have either of you actually played these games? No. Not in like 30 years. Because ah the arcade one is, i don't think it's very fun. The Genesis one, though, if you like weird side-scrolling platformers from that era, which are a little bit of an acquired taste, it is a pretty fun game.
01:03:34
Speaker
and Okay. Yeah, I think they didn't phone it in. I think this wasn't like a cheap pump and dump, like the Home Alone platform. Oh, no, no. Those games are fucking dog shit. Yeah, no. This was actually like at least a game, you know.
01:03:49
Speaker
um Let's see. that the datatata Oh, of course, you can also do the moonwalk. You've got be able to do moonwalk. Can either think you guys do the moonwalk in real life? No. God do. No. No.
01:04:00
Speaker
No. Never figured it out. ah Let's see. There were also 16-bit versions of Jackson's hits. Bad, Beat It, Thriller, Billie Jean, and Smooth Criminal, amongst others.
01:04:10
Speaker
One of them will be our outro this week, listeners. Stick around to hear that. nice Well, and that's another one of the things that makes the game so much fun is these are excellent, excellent interpretations of those songs, very nice which is not easy to do with how the Genesis synth chip works.
01:04:26
Speaker
It's a very harsh sounding chip. So getting an accurate reproductions of the getting accurate reproductions of ah these songs took quite a bit of work. Yeah, and it paid off. They sound great. You can listen to the whole soundtrack on YouTube. It's it's pretty fun.
01:04:41
Speaker
ah Now, the cri critical consensus was that in spite of these many charms and being better than your average piece of licensed shovelware, Michael Jackson's Moonwalker was still not actually particularly great.
01:04:55
Speaker
And so it was largely, along with Moonwalker, been sort of combined to the confined to the dustbin of history. you know i mean, ja it's an oddity, but I wouldn't say it's a bad game.
01:05:07
Speaker
there are I've played a lot of bad games from that era, and Moonwalker is not one of them. Yeah, I feel like bad is probably harsh. I'd probably put it at like the same level as maybe like the Aladdin game for Genesis.
01:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's not it's not as good as Aladdin. but Those are held in pretty high regard, I think. yeah Okay, fair enough, fair enough. Worse than that. Uh, well, in any case, we report, you decide, let us know listeners. How good do you think Michael Jackson's moon Walker for Sega Genesis was?
01:05:36
Speaker
Uh, in the meantime, we're going to talk about, uh, the game this week. And it's about how there's a lot of different jobs. If you want to work in film, this bumper is really long and I have to apologize every time.
01:06:01
Speaker
We show up at the film set. Running from the mob. I'll take whatever I can get.
01:06:11
Speaker
There's so many kind of jobs. A key grip. A PA. I'll do it. If it pays.
01:06:22
Speaker
A best boy. Makeup. Makeup. I tell you folks, that's what's up. There's a lot of different jobs if you want to work in film.
01:06:34
Speaker
There's a lot of different jobs if you want to work in film.
01:06:51
Speaker
That's right. There are a lot of different jobs if you want to work in film, and this is a game about nine of them. What I'm going to do is I'm going to read you a description of a job that was credited in the film Moonwalker, as well as what that job was, how they were credited.
01:07:06
Speaker
And then I'm going to read three names that appeared in the credits. I want you to tell me which name had that job. This is a buzz in game. You'll buzz in by saying your own name.
01:07:17
Speaker
If you get it wrong, your opponent has a chance to steal. Any questions? I think I got it. Yeah, I'm good. All right. Question number one. Stunts are dangerous work, so you want to have someone in charge planning the stunts and keeping an eye on all the stunt performers.
01:07:35
Speaker
It's the stunt coordinator. Was the stunt coordinator John Moyo, Diamond Farnsworth, or Monty Cox?
01:07:46
Speaker
Greg. Greg? Diamond Farnsworth.
01:07:52
Speaker
No, I'm sorry. It wasn't Diamond Farmsworth. Josh, can you steal? Yeah, I'm going to go with whatever the first one was. John Moyo? yeah That's correct. Josh is on the board. Okay.
01:08:05
Speaker
Question number two. When you're doing stop motion animation, you'll want a camera operator with a specific skill set. Different than that of the live action camera operator.
01:08:16
Speaker
It's animation camera. Was the animation camera... Dion Hatch, Steve Slocum, or Christopher Dusendshin?
01:08:29
Speaker
ah Josh, I'm going with the third one. Christopher Dusendshin? Yes. Right again? Very nice. Very nice. Very strong instincts on Josh. Greg, you got to watch you out here. I'm trying. I'm trying.
01:08:43
Speaker
Question number three. When you record some dialogue in post-production, you'll want somebody to mix it so that it blends seamlessly. This person did not do a good job, by the way. I need to throw that out there.
01:08:58
Speaker
adr Mixer, you're getting a thumbs down. whis your name Lionel Strutt, Gary Zink, or Brick Price?
01:09:09
Speaker
Josh, Gary Zink.
01:09:12
Speaker
No, I'm sorry. Greg, can you steal? Brick Price.
01:09:17
Speaker
Man. No, I'm sorry. That was Lionel Strutt. Yeah, that was a... There were a lot of good names in that one. Those were good names. All right, question number four.
01:09:30
Speaker
With kids popping up in productions, studios will keep a teacher on staff to make sure any child actors on set don't fall too per behind... Oh, my Christ. What?
01:09:40
Speaker
price
01:09:43
Speaker
Studios will keep a teacher on staff to make sure any child actors on set don't fall too far behind in their schooling. It's the studio teacher. What's the studio teacher?
01:09:54
Speaker
Nikki Cox, Dick Wickland, or Brad Southwick?
01:10:01
Speaker
Greg? Greg? Brad Southwick.
01:10:07
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry, Greg. i going to go for Nikki Cox.
01:10:13
Speaker
um I'm sorry, that one was Dick Wickland. Dick Wickland. Dick Wickland. Question number five. You think posters just come out of nowhere?
01:10:25
Speaker
Of course not. You need a poster designer. the poster designer Michael G. Ploog, Dale Belden, or Bill Gold? ah Josh, it's Michael G. Ploog. It's gotta a be.
01:10:38
Speaker
I'm sorry, that one was the bait. i get the Could I get the first could to get the other names again? Dale Belden or Bill Gold. Dale Belden.
01:10:51
Speaker
I got some stumpers tonight. Yeah, you do. Question number six. A film crew can be a couple of guys or a small army of people.
01:11:01
Speaker
If it gets big enough, you're going to need somebody in charge of logistics. It's the unit production manager. Was the unit production manager James F. Orendorf, Gary Depew, or Hal Gaussman?
01:11:19
Speaker
Josh. Hal Gaussman.
01:11:24
Speaker
I'm sorry. was Harry Depew, and who was the other person? James F. Orendorf. Let's go with Depew. You got it, Greg. All right.
01:11:40
Speaker
That's right. There's plenty of game left to play. Question number seven. Somebody has to oversee set design, props, costumes, the whole art department. It's the production designer. Was the production designer Hal Gaussman...
01:11:54
Speaker
Michael G. Ploog or Thomas Kost?
01:12:00
Speaker
I'm going to go with Josh, and I'm going to go with Ploog. him That time it was Ploog. I couldn't resist Ploog for too long. must have really lost track. I don't normally reuse names like that. Question number eight. It's fun, though.
01:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe I'll work it in. and Editors can't do it all themselves. They need assistants. The assistant editor. Was the assistant editor Jill Goulart, Spike Silver, or Virginie?
01:12:32
Speaker
Greg. Greg? Virginie.
01:12:37
Speaker
No, sorry, Virginie was in the makeup department. You just got to try, you know? What are the other options again, Sarah? Jill Goulart or Spike Silver? Let's say Spike. Let's go with Spike.
01:12:49
Speaker
That one was Jill Goulart. Last question. Okay. What's the scores? ah Greg, ah you've got one. Josh is sitting on three. Yeah, I've already won.
01:13:00
Speaker
I've already won. Let's see how it goes.
01:13:04
Speaker
When you've got analog special effects that require multiple filming exposures, you'll want somebody to make sure everything is where it needs to be. It's the visual effects optical lineup.
01:13:16
Speaker
Was that Michael Bukowskis, Richard Geertz, or Gary Bialke? Josh, I'm going to go with Bukowskis on this one.
01:13:28
Speaker
Damn, yeah Josh. Pulling it out. You really did it. Stomping on Greg's face. What can you do? A brutal showing. Yeah. Uh-oh, it's the Batty Awards.
01:13:40
Speaker
Oh, congratulations, Josh.
01:13:49
Speaker
you're messing with me. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:13:59
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:14:05
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees.
01:14:13
Speaker
That's right, congratulations to all the nominees. It's the Batty Awards. The only awards that are Awards. Greg, don't you kick us off?
01:14:24
Speaker
All right. So I would like to just take this moment to say that during the credit, because this was almost my baddie award, but during the credits, I saw like a chimpanzee jump into a biplane with Michael Jackson. Was that ever in the movie for some reason? Or was that just in the credits?
01:14:37
Speaker
That must have been an outtake, yeah. Yeah, so um yeah I don't remember that. That's going to get my honorable mention for Batty Award. My actual Batty Award is one that I would... I'm going to say this because I don't think I'm going to be able to turn this into a series of awards, but I want to try.
01:14:53
Speaker
so I'm going to make this the inaugural one. And this is the award for that sound that their outfit makes. ah And it is during the time when Michael Jackson is dancing for the rabbit in the desert.
01:15:06
Speaker
He's got like all these buckles and chains and things on. And it sounds like someone put about 15 washers on a Plinko board. And it was so distracting. he's just like dancing and doing all this
Anecdotes and Awards
01:15:15
Speaker
stuff. And he's like, clad, clad, clad, clad.
01:15:17
Speaker
it was just like you needed a different outfit for this particular one or there to be more sound or something because it's just dead silence with you swishing around and all this metal just clattering and clinking everywhere and it was just really hilarious to me fair enough yeah it really did hit at home that he was wearing a lot of buckles a lot is at so many buckles
01:15:41
Speaker
I'm going to give my Batty Award to my favorite faintly remembered Michael Jackson memory. o And ah that's going to go ah to when he was, I believe, on the Music Video Awards with his new wife, Priscilla Presley. And all they did was like they announced, like, Mr. and Mrs. Michael Jackson.
01:16:04
Speaker
And then the curtains, like, barely parted. And they walked down a long runway holding hands. And Michael Jackson said, To think they said that this wouldn't last.
01:16:16
Speaker
And then took her by, like grabbed her face yeah and gave her the most disgusting kiss. Horrifying. So unnatural. That was so bad.
01:16:27
Speaker
now So bizarre and weird. And then they just left and got divorced like three months later. i I will never forget that. Josh, do you have a Batty Award?
01:16:39
Speaker
So what exactly is a Batty Award for? Whatever you want. If there's anything that you want to say about Michael Jackson's Moonwalker or anything that came up even tertiarily,
01:16:52
Speaker
Give that bad boy a baddie award. I want to give a baddie award to myself for absolutely dominating the game. Just like laying down the law and leaving Greg in my dust. That's kind of, I really, this is not to flex or anything, but I think I did really well and I wanted to give myself credit for that.
01:17:11
Speaker
No, you were decisive excellent and insightful. And ah this is going up. Fans, update the the wiki. We've got a new guest winner.
01:17:22
Speaker
Greg, you're really letting down the home team. I just want to make that clear. All right. and I wanted to give a Batty Award to both of you for inviting me on this show and and and having a delightful time.
01:17:33
Speaker
Well, thank you for coming. And Josh, you've been a fantastic guest. Our door always open if you ever want to come back.
Guest Plugs and Social Handles
01:17:40
Speaker
do you What do you have to plug? Hit them up again with your plugs. Yeah. I mean, listen to the worst of all possible worlds. It's a media podcast where we talk about the pop culture of a dying empire.
01:17:51
Speaker
It, lots of episodes about all sorts of different things, good things, bad things, stuff that falls somewhere in between. What we're always trying to do is figure out what are the narratives at the core of this thing, both the explicit ones, as well as the ones that you might've missed.
01:18:06
Speaker
So if that sounds relevant to your interest, go check us out. I listened to your episode about ah As Is Aids Play. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. were very proud of that one. The other day. that was It was really insightful. it was a great listen, something that I knew nothing about and a great way to learn about it.
01:18:23
Speaker
If you're looking for a place to jump in, listeners, I can't recommend that one enough. Yeah, we're all we're all theater kids, so ah we are always giving ourselves opportunities to perform. ah The episodes where we talk about theater, we like to read segments of the plays because it's just fun to do.
01:18:39
Speaker
um Yeah, and then my other show, Ill Conceived, it's podcast about natalism and the natalist movement in the United States, both the history of it as well as the present day. So that's obviously more on the politics side of things, but we we are...
01:18:52
Speaker
doing that now every week and so far have been learning quite a bit and we've got some cool stuff coming up as well. So very nice. By the time this one comes out, when is this episode coming out? The one we're recording right now?
01:19:04
Speaker
It's going to be the first Sunday in August. Got it. Okay. Then I don't know what the hell we'll be talking about by then, but I'm sure it'll be interesting. I'm sure it will be listeners. Check it out.
01:19:17
Speaker
And, uh, and if people want to follow you, where should they find you ah You can find me on blue sky at Bosch dot worst possible dot world. I also have a website, which is Josh Borman dot com that has links to everything that I'm getting up to.
01:19:31
Speaker
Nice. All right. Check it out, you guys. And you know what I'm going to do right now? I'm going to plug the show. Have you followed us yet? Have you subscribed? Have you given us five stars?
01:19:44
Speaker
Josh, do you listen to your own podcasts? Uh, yeah. I mean, I, that, that's, it's a very important way to see if what you're making is any good or not. I agree 100%. When you listen to this podcast, make sure you give us five stars.
01:19:58
Speaker
This is my new thing. I'm bugging the guests. I figure it's worth a shot. oh Oh, you're telling me I have to do it. Gotcha. Yes. right here yes give your Give yourself five stars. Let me just do that real quick. I can do that right now as we speak.
01:20:10
Speaker
Look at this. a man in action. Listeners. Podcasts. Here we go. Five stars. How do you like that? Josh, if Josh can do it, listeners, you can do it.
Next Episode Preview: Batman and Robin
01:20:21
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. It was that easy. And ah come back next week when we're going to be talking about Batman and Robin with MB from Tasting Menu. And I'm very excited for that should be a good time.
01:20:33
Speaker
And ah until then, ah be good. Goodbye. Goodbye.
01:21:12
Speaker
Bye.