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00:00:01
Is This The End?
63 Plays2 years ago
G'day! This week on Outback Packers we have actual football to talk about! We discuss the Preseason win over the Bengals, all the ups and downs!
But first, Nick gives his final sign off and he takes a break from the podcast.
please like and subscribe and drop us a note to wish Nick well in his travels!
But first, Nick gives his final sign off and he takes a break from the podcast.
please like and subscribe and drop us a note to wish Nick well in his travels!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Outback Packers podcast
00:00:19
Speaker
G'day, everyone. Welcome to the Outback Packers podcast, the podcast where two mates from all the way across the world have a yarn talking Packers football and the green and gold.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm Nick Gregory, as always, joined by my co-host, Iowa Joe, today breaking down the latest from training camp, preseason, and family night.
Nick's announcement of stepping back
00:00:36
Speaker
So tonight is kind of a funny episode, pretty bittersweet for myself. Due to my own kind of personal commitments and things like my music school and all that stuff, I decided to kind of take a step back from the pod, not necessarily from the entire brand, but just from the show, I wouldn't be able to be regularly on here anymore.
00:00:57
Speaker
So we do have a few changes coming up here and Joey's going to take the reins and I absolutely trust him to do a fantastic job with this. But yeah, unfortunately for me, this is probably going to be the last one for a good while here. But luckily for our last one here.
Excitement for upcoming Packers season
00:01:12
Speaker
for my last one, there is a heap to talk about, you know, we're kind of right, you're getting onto this point, we're just about to look into the barrel of the season. And we have actual players and footage to look at and film that we've been able to break down. And yeah, I'm just really excited to kind of get into that, because you know, it's only been a week since we last talked, but I just feel like there's so much that's happened in that time. Joe, what do you think?
Joe hints at podcast changes
00:01:35
Speaker
Well, I think you're a son of a bitch for leaving this all to me. So that's, that's the first thing.
00:01:40
Speaker
But, you know, we've been doing this so long. Well, not so long. It's not been quite the year yet. We almost made it a year. But, you know, you got to get in your own headspace. So take your break. I think we'll leave part of the news kind of a surprise until after this episode comes out.
00:02:12
Speaker
As for what we're here to talk about, I was excited.
Preseason excitement and wins
00:02:17
Speaker
I was watching the Freezer podcast earlier today, and those guys said it great that, you know,
00:02:26
Speaker
this is the most excited i've been for a preseason game in a long time and it just because it's an unknown i mean hell we had starters playing for the first time in forever and uh you know we actually got to see plays be made not just the you know the bare minimum effort being put in and we actually got a win in preseason a decent win in preseason
00:02:56
Speaker
I mean, yeah, of course, preseason wins don't excuse me mean anything. But it still felt good to see that happen. Of course, there's ups and downs, and we'll get into that. But it was just great to have football on TV again.
00:03:15
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I'm right there with you.
Jordan Love's performance analysis
00:03:18
Speaker
I wasn't able to tune in for the entirety of the game live. But that feeling of seeing the guy who's going to be our starter just out there, there's not really much you can do to really recount that in the years past. Rogers always looked fantastic in free season, and it didn't really matter at that point.
00:03:37
Speaker
But now we're, you know, we're kind of at a stage where these things do matter. And, you know, the way, you know, well, not necessarily that I'm projecting Jordan Love's whole season from one preseason game, but, you know, like the way he looks in this drive, like it really did matter. And it's fantastic that he looked so good and so promising. I mean, you know, not to be that guy, but, you know, Justin Fields is out there throwing screen passes and his net average air yards was like negative nine or something, you know, like. And obviously, like I don't actually care that much about this stuff, but
00:04:06
Speaker
As far as the process, we're seeing that from him. We're seeing him making those reads, seeing him being smart with the ball. Not to inflate training camp stats, but any of him made that comment a few days ago.
00:04:24
Speaker
In the entirety of camp, he's only made three or four true turnover-worthy plays, and even now he's made even less interceptions. It's just really nice to see in here that he's definitely getting better. You can see it from the clips, and we've seen small snippets from the videos from training camp, but to actually see it in a game on the field is another thing entirely, especially against another team.
00:04:47
Speaker
um to kind of sidetrack a little bit i do want to apologize to anybody who's going to be watching this video because this was kind of a last minute record session and i'm sitting in my car so i don't know if you guys can see this is my view so if i'm not looking at camera then you know it's because i'm trying to watch out to make sure nobody's coming up on me um but yeah
00:05:13
Speaker
I mean, even throughout the game, I was happy with the way the floor game is schemed for the game because I gave him a few out passes just to get him confident. And of course you don't want to give away everything. So you're not going to just start throwing bombs down the field, but at least gave you a sense of what he could do.
00:05:38
Speaker
Um, I don't know do we want to get right into the game or is there anything else you want to start kind of talking about? Well, it depends if you want to start with uh, the preceding game or with the overall just like general takeaways because I think it might be nice to describe go through the game first Right. I mean I have a whole four pages worth of notes from every drive So I I mean we could probably spend another two days just doing talking about my notes um
00:06:07
Speaker
But so I mean, uh, what's that? Let's start with the game then. Okay. Um, cause I mean, even on the first drive, I missed just a hair at the beginning of it, but the first drive I have wrote down that he had a couple of nice quick hitters, which I just mentioned that, you know, to get him confident and, and you could see the poison and when he was making the passes.
00:06:35
Speaker
Um, then he had a nice deep throw And I know i've seen some people kind of Trash it Maybe not maybe trash is a little harsh word, but you know, they they critiqued it a little too much. It
Love's resilience and growth
00:06:51
Speaker
was a perfect pass The safety just made a really good play on it. He read it the whole way
00:06:58
Speaker
But the pass was technically on buttons. Could he have made it a little bit longer? Sure. But I mean, it was right there over the shoulder for Christian Watson to make the play had the safety not read it like he did. Yeah. So I mean, and then there was kind of the bad thrill where he overthrew Musgrave. But, you know, I think he kind of got excited with that throw because he saw Musgrave coming over the middle.
00:07:29
Speaker
wide open and, you know, we haven't seen that in Green Bay in a long time where we've had a speedy type tied in, receiving tied in. So, but that's what I said on the first offensive drive. The defensive drive was great, but I'll let you talk about the offensive one first.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, the thing that really excites me about Jordan Love when it comes to things he could do potentially better or just different to Rogers is, you know, kind of that thing of just having the short-term memory. You know, we see him kind of get, like you said, get a bit excited, overthrow his mass grave, and especially after that Watson pass, you know,
00:08:11
Speaker
I think it's very easy for a young player to just get in their head a little bit. And I think we definitely saw that in his first start against KC, right? But this time, it's a pretty decent game. But it is just nice to see that he can focus, he can reel himself in, and he can still make some really nice throws with a nice touch on them.
00:08:28
Speaker
This is because the first drive didn't go for a touchdown. It didn't seem like it really affected him that much. He was very capable of dusting himself off and trying again, which I think is a testament to his character in general. For those of you who know about Jordans,
00:08:48
Speaker
Backstory in his past, you know, this is like a really resilient guy and that's one of the things I'm really excited about When he gets more serious playing time, you know, just like that kind of you know Never give up mentality and he's I don't think he's a guy who's ever going to get shy with the ball So it's just nice to say there's the kind of little inklings of that. Yeah Definitely and you know Compared to the past he's more confident. You can see that the poise in him when he when he drops back and You know
00:09:18
Speaker
I'm sorry to a lot of these haters that have been fucking talking shit about him, but, you know, he's looking good.
Comparing Love with other QBs
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's just preseason, but you're going to have ups and downs with them. Even the best quarterbacks in the world don't go lights out in their first year. Hell, Peyton Manning looked like a bust for the first couple of years until he got settled in.
00:09:46
Speaker
I remember talking with a friend of mine that back in the day when after Peyton was drafted that he held like the rookie record for most interceptions in a season or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, he did. And so, I mean, yeah, love isn't a rookie anymore, but this is going to be his first season getting playing time, consistent playing time.
00:10:13
Speaker
So there's going to be ups and downs and there's going to be things that he's going to do that I'll be more worried later on in the season. If he's still making those same mistakes than I am when he's making those mistakes. And now that's what preseason is for preseason is for making those mistakes. But if he progresses and cuts those mistakes out, we've got a quarterback on our hands. Hmm.
00:10:43
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And I guess kind of going even more into these young players here, it just really seems like he's starting to build a rapport with both Dobbs and Watson and even Reed and Musgrave. It's just so nice that these guys are hyping each other up. And it feels like every second update that I read at a training camp and watching it in the games is like Jordan Love hits Luke Musgrave over the middle of the field. It's like, is that?
00:11:13
Speaker
I didn't realize that was allowed. I didn't realize that. Yeah, no kids teams could do that. We haven't seen over the middle in a long time. But but we also haven't seen the weapons like these in a long time. Again, I go back to the freezer podcast that they were talking about. It was just a few years ago when the three wide receivers that the Packers drafted in the same draft, all basically were the same. I mean, Jamon Moore was
00:11:41
Speaker
was kind of the outlier because he didn't run the, the high 40 and he, you know, consistently couldn't catch a cold, but you know, basically they were all built the same. They came out of the same mold. Well, now we have Christian Watson, who's the tall athletic speedster, the kind of all around guy that you want. You have Dobbs that seems to be like the route runner and the guy to make a miss, but still has kind of,
00:12:09
Speaker
I hate to put this kind of on him, but the devante type player where they weren't full out speedsters, but they had the ability to Make it then you've got jayden reed who is your essential slot receiver? Who's built like a slot receiver but could play on the boundary? And then you've got that toure who's probably not ever going to be a number one But will be that solid
00:12:38
Speaker
all around guy that you need when you need him. And then now you've got the tight end, the athletic tight ends that, you know, they definitely need to work on their blocking and some of their decision making. But, you know, that's because they're rookies, all these guys are still young. Yeah.
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think you might have retweeted this today. Sorry, should I say reposted? The rookie receptions record for a tight end in Green Bay is only 34 from Bubba Franks. And that is just so mind blowing. Only 34 receptions, even for a rookie, that's like,
00:13:22
Speaker
the record, are you kidding me? Like I think like if love is healthy and if Musgrave is healthy there's no chance that that stands as the reception record for a rookie title because he's going to be like the third or fourth option in this offense. Well not even just Musgrave but Kraft. I mean you know he could be that option too
00:13:46
Speaker
And he could be more of the all around type tight end, the blocker, the receiver, the route runner type guy. So that's the first time in a long time. We've had that type of a guy and yeah, 34 receptions for a rookie tight end seems really low, but you know, that's just how the Packers have used their tight ends for a long time. They've never really put a premium, haven't put a premium premium on them in a long time.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah.
Packers' defensive strengths
00:14:17
Speaker
But now let's talk about the defense because we saw a lot of the starters on defense. That first drive was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. The slot blitz. Yeah. I have it wrote down here, you know, good defense start or defensive start Nixon sack and a pass breakup.
00:14:39
Speaker
You know if we can get that kind of play consistently out of kishon in our slot This this defense is going to be amazing who fucking cares about safeties So but I mean the pass rush got there uh, uh The devante why it was you know broke through um, and then of course you got a kishon making the plays
00:15:09
Speaker
And obviously they didn't have Jair out there. And I think it was Rizool out there. I don't remember. I believe so for the first drive. Okay. Um, so you really weren't dealing even with the very, the cream of the crop of the defense, you know, think about when Roshan comes back and Jair is in there, which we probably shouldn't mention that they activated Roshan off the pub.
00:15:37
Speaker
So not saying that he's gonna start anytime soon But that's just goes to show that he could be ready by week one
00:15:48
Speaker
I mean, and yeah, and you know, I think everyone is hyper aware of our recent history with ACL injuries, especially by Chiari. I mean, because I kind of mentioned that last week that, you know, he, it seems like he was already kind of like gearing up to start training again. And the fact that he's practicing already, I'm like, that's fucking insane, dude.
00:16:08
Speaker
I don't think he ever stopped training though. I think even when he had the brace on his knee and the, you know, all sutured up, I think he was still out there training. He's that kind of guy. He's such a workaholic. And I mean, I find it so hard to just not love everything about Gary. I mean, what a fantastic player and person. And I had to continue to say, I'm sorry, because I, not that I really called the pick a horrible, horrible, horrible pick.
00:16:35
Speaker
I just didn't understand it at the time. I thought he could end up busting out because, or being a bust just because of the lack of production in college. And that just goes to show that sometimes you don't have to have the production in college to be a player in the league. But, um, you know, it just, uh, that first defensive drive gave me a lot of hope. Maybe there's something there.
00:17:06
Speaker
Hmm. Well, yeah. And something I think that really excites me about the group this year is just, you know, like that, that edge depth is like genuinely exciting. Even behind Gary, you know, probably Preston's last year with the team, but Justin Hollands is routinely making, making himself known Kingsley. And I agree was so, I mean, I, sorry, Eddie Barre was so promising last year and continues to kind of get better here and more physical. I think you put in a little bit of weight.
00:17:31
Speaker
And then that's not even mentioning Van Ness, not even mentioning Karl Brooks and Kobe Wooden, who both have some versatility at the 5 and 7 tech. This D-line rotation is actually genuinely just so exciting. And going even further, talking about guys like Jonathan Ford, you mentioned Devontae Wyatt. I mean, oh man, I'm so excited to see him play. Well, and you missed a big UDFA that the Packers signed Britton Cox, who was even making plays in the game.
00:17:58
Speaker
That depth is something else, but I think it was Preston and Justin Holland starting on this drive. Between those two and Devontae Wyatt, they were creating tremendous pressure.
00:18:19
Speaker
Sorry, I interrupted you, but we're good. I think especially this Barry system is really predicated on the fact that you can just leave a deadline to do that thing. Like he was saying that he's almost basically refused to put any effort into like stunts and twists and any kind of, you know, um, systematic havoc from the dayline, you know, and what if, you know, then this pans out and with, with the Bonta white looking as good as he, as he has, and you know, TJ Slayton kind of taking up the middle of the field there, like,
00:18:50
Speaker
These guys have the potential to really push this unit forward, and especially in a year where the secondary, the safeties, namely, are going to be weaker than they have been in years past. It just makes it even so much more important that these guys are able to contribute. We're seeing all the right signs out of them. It seems like that is quite a tentative battle there in the middle of the field.
00:19:12
Speaker
You know, I mentioned Jonathan Ford, but he's by no means necessarily a lock to be on the roster here. I could probably, you know, like the last string defensive lineman on there. Um, maybe, I mean, I, I think he really, uh, when I think we, who did we talk about this with Paul Bredl? Um, where the Flores went out of his way to compliment, uh, Ford.
00:19:35
Speaker
And then just some of the things he was doing in this past game, I don't think he may not be like 100% lock in, but I also don't think you can just throw him aside. I don't know if he'd be able to ride the practice squad.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. It's just nice to hear about it. I always point out the past few weeks I've said this, that in Gudakhan's tenure, the Packers have ranked 32nd in EPA by play, stopping the run. The whole time they've been the worst run-stopping team in the league by that metric. And it's a big part of it, the dayline talent. Now that Dean Lowry is out of the way,
00:20:21
Speaker
I mean, we're getting some fresh blood in, then we're Darren Reed. These guys were just straight up just physical, just talented. It's exciting. The thing we always come back to with this year's team is it's exciting. And there's just so much unknown. But what we're seeing so far has been good. Definitely.
Rookies stepping up highlights
00:20:40
Speaker
I mean, even the rookies are stepping up. Jayden Reed was making some tremendous plays during the game.
00:20:50
Speaker
I just, we didn't really see much out of the tight ends per se. Um, but you know, it's still early on with those guys. Malik Heath was doing tremendous. Uh, you know, the, yeah, the, you know, I kind of been pumping him up something fierce lately.
00:21:10
Speaker
I, you know, going back to our wide receiver episode pre draft, I believe I said during that one, if I hadn't during that one, then I've said it since that I talked about him, you know, he was the type of guy that seemed like he had the ability he just wouldn't
00:21:28
Speaker
put in the effort at Ole Miss. And I think even some of the interviews he's given recently, he said the same thing that, you know, he just didn't try. He just coasted through and now we're starting to see what he can be in practices and in the game. I will say it was kind of weird seeing an 18 out on the field in it not being Randall Cobb. At first it had me thrown because I saw that first completion to him. I was like,
00:21:58
Speaker
Wait a minute. Was that Randall? Cause he kind of, he kind of ran a Randall route and I was like, Oh yeah. And I was like, wait, that's not Randall. That guy's a little bit taller.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah. Almost as strange as saying like 17 on the kicker. That one's still pretty hard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in 17 on the back of the third string quarterback too. Yeah. And I think it's Magoo. I think I was correct about that. Yeah. I think that's what they were calling him during the game. So we'll have to do some checking on that. But I think it is Magoo.
00:22:38
Speaker
Um, which is still kind of funny. Uh, but, um, Oh, who else was, well, I mean, even, uh, you know, the line, well, I guess Rashid Walker's not really a rookie anymore, but after one Rocky play, he like settled in and did great. Uh,
00:23:03
Speaker
Royce Newman though, your boy is just, he's gotta be gone. He does not look good at all. You're not wrong.
00:23:12
Speaker
It's so funny. Like some of these players that come through the league in general, it's like they have like, you know, serviceable or, you know, sometimes even a good, uh, like rookie, uh, and then it's kind of like fall off a cliff. It's really weird. Like, for example, like, like Josh Jackson, not that he was necessarily ever a good player, but it was kind of like, you know, I seem like all right. And you didn't need to improve obviously, but it was kind of like, you know, whatever he was there and it was okay.
00:23:38
Speaker
But it's like, as time goes on, they just get like more and more kind of exposed for their weaknesses. I think that's kind of what we're saying a bit with Royce Newman here is just like, because there was things that he could do well in his first rookie season. And he was a starter on that O-line. Even though he was the worst one, he was still a starter. That still counts for something. But it's like, everything that we hear from him is just like, what's going on, man? Or even like Josh Myers, you know, there was that post the other day that there was
00:24:06
Speaker
there's been like five or six fumbled snaps in practice, and all of them come from Josh Myers. It's like, how are you? What? What? What? I don't understand. Like, what's happening? Like, you should be getting better, at least incrementally. And it seems like it's getting more and more exposed. Well, I've got a, the only thing I can stand up for Josh Myers about is he's going from one quarterback to another. So there might be a different preference when it comes to snapping. Um,
00:24:35
Speaker
But that's got to be getting taken over quick. There's no way that he can keep doing it. But yeah, I saw something about that where there's been at least one fumbled snap in every practice so far this year. And I don't even think it's just Josh Meyers either. I think that Cole Snyder had a couple of them too. And then, uh,
00:25:04
Speaker
Was it during the game when John Runyon was first put in a center? I think there was a fumbled one. So, I mean, it's not just been Meyer either. It's been everybody. It's like nobody wants to fucking snap the ball. But I mean, there was very few. How do I want to say it?
00:25:34
Speaker
You know, there's always your good list and your bad list and there were very few that I could tell on the bad list. I mean, there was some and they were noticeable, but there wasn't a lot. There was more good than there was bad.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, I can agree with that. And they kind of, you know, like, like, like Lufthansa said, it's just nice to see that kind of that energy from these guys. And, you know, they are playing a little bit differently. You know, Justice Mosqueda posted a few cut-ups as well of, not to put too much stock into a preseason, but the fact that Joe Barry is, you know, kind of scamming these guys up man on man.
00:26:14
Speaker
where even in the past, you know, he has been like, when it gets to the the lesser players, like, you know, plays lower on the roster, he's always trying to kind of hide them. And, you know, obviously it's preseason, but it's just like he said that he's he noticed that there's a few concepts that he just hasn't seen much, if at all, from this defense, even even in previous pro seasons. So it's kind of it's nice. And it seems like, you know, he kind of is willing to experiment a little bit more. And Jair has talked about trying to trust his play calls a bit more and that kind of thing.
00:26:43
Speaker
It's all these small little incremental changes that are in a vacuum. None of them are especially indicative of anything massive, but you're just saying what you want to see out of all these little areas. You're saying what you want to see. Right. Just to give back to the game,
00:27:08
Speaker
Uh, you know, it was nice seeing motion being used We know the former quarterback was notorious about saying how he hated motion But it was nice seeing like the fake jet sweeps and the actual jet sweeps and stuff like that because we were seeing the floor system Actually being put in place So that was really nice jayden reed was getting most of the jet sweep snaps which
00:27:38
Speaker
You know he was looking great. I I mean he wasn't getting He wasn't gashing the defenses by no means but he was still making Enough to count on I mean like the one that I have right down here for the very first one. He got a nice five-yard pickup So it just
00:28:00
Speaker
It's nice seeing that stuff. I know we could sit here and bash Rogers and the way things ended the last couple of years. And, you know, I know the floor and Goudekins both kind of made the comment that, well, it's not that we haven't seen the full system of Latin at the floor. Well, we really haven't because the floor system is based on motion. And when you've got a quarterback who doesn't want to do motion,
00:28:28
Speaker
then that just cuts out half of your plays. So it's good to see that concept being and actually being run by people who are capable of running it. I'm sorry, Alan Lazard, but you should not be taking jet sweeps for nothing.
00:28:47
Speaker
No. I think everyone can agree on that pretty comfortably. But yeah, seeing the raw explosiveness from these guys. And again, when your big rookie tight end is the fastest recorded player in your training camps, this really speaks to the explosiveness. And between him, Watson, Reid, obviously, and some of these lower roster players.
00:29:13
Speaker
actually blanking out these receivers who are lower on the depth chart, you know, there's so many explosive players and it's just, you know, just by default, you know, we saw it from Emmanuel Wilson. I mean, that kid's got an absolute, you know, absolute jet pack. And this is what you want to see from these kind of guys, just a little bit of excitement, a bit of speed, explosiveness
Ongoing O-line and running back competition
00:29:34
Speaker
and
00:29:34
Speaker
You know, because we saw it with Tyler even, you know, that one year, if, if, if the forest has, you know, someone that he can use on those, on those gadgets, gadget players, he will, he will use them. And last year it kind of was only Christian Watson because, you know, Dobbs was injured and we kind of had, you know, 80 year old Randall Cobb out there and Alan Mizzard, like you said, and now that there's just so much to choose from, there's, there's just so much potential for what he can do in that scheme.
00:30:00
Speaker
Well, and I, I tweeted it or X did or posted it or whatever the hell it's called on that site anymore. Um, that with the shoulder injury, the Tyler Goodson sustain, if it keeps them out for any period of time, it would break my heart, but I could see Emmanuel Wilson jumping him for that third running back spot.
00:30:22
Speaker
I mean, which sucks because Goodson has done everything in the world that they've asked him. They put him on kick return. He's taken the Tyler Irvin role where he was doing the jet sweeps. He was, you know, in pass catch, he was doing the pass blocking. And now he's hurt his shoulder. They don't think it's a long-term thing, but you never know what those type of injuries until they really announce, you know, usually Wednesdays are when they announce they're full.
00:30:52
Speaker
injury reports but You know with the way Wilson played and the speed that he's got There's just no way that if Goodson is out for any extended time that he can get over it now I've been wrong before We've seen these flashes in the pan before now. I'm not calling Wilson a flash in the pan I mean, we obviously got to see what he can do the next two games but You know
00:31:20
Speaker
We've seen that happen where they've come and balled out during the preseason, but they don't make the final cut. So it's going to be interesting to see what that third bet. I just for the life of me cannot understand how Patrick Taylor is still on the team. He really does nothing for me.
00:31:41
Speaker
And I hate to say that. I'm not trying to say he's a dud by no means, but they've had him for so long and I've not seen any kind of real improvement to him. He's still the same type of player that they had when he first signed as a UDFA.
00:32:03
Speaker
So I just, I don't see the lore there anymore, which sucks. I've been on the chain for years, man. Even when he first came on, I just feel like when you have a young running back like that, he can block. That's kind of like really it. I don't know. I mean, he's kind of just like very average at everything and just not bad at anything, I think. And then it's like, you need like one exciting thing about you as a young player, as a back of the roster player.
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, he just doesn't have it, but which kind of pisses me off even more thinking about last year where he was getting snaps over Goodson. Cause it's like Goodson can probably do just about the same shit as Taylor can. Um, and people are going to say that that's just my bias showing, but it definitely is. Oh, it definitely is. But I mean, if you sit there and think about it,
00:32:58
Speaker
There there's no way Looking at the two players that you can say. Oh, yeah, that guy should be playing over the other one because he's been in the system longer and Still doesn't look like he's had made any improvements on And you can you very rarely can improve your abilities and he was very limited with his abilities to start with But
00:33:26
Speaker
I have to say, you know, I got I got to point this one out to, you know, how about my vote of my boy Carrington Valentine? That that just amazing what he's been doing. Again, we got a kind of temporary expectations because it is preseason. But jeez, man, talk about putting your name in the spotlight. It just
00:33:52
Speaker
what he had one interception and at least two pass breakups, um, and tackles. There were a couple of times that if he didn't make the tackle, the, the guy was gone. Um, so I now on the other end, you know, Corey Valentine could probably take a walk, but he probably won't because of the special teams. Yeah. Well, the thing with Carrington is that, um,
00:34:23
Speaker
Even though, like you said, he does quite often play with second and third stringers and against preseason, he's still doing similar things against the starters on the team who are good. We know that they can play. We know Watson can play. We know Dobbs can play. And Valentine is making plays against them. And that's the real exciting part to me is that
00:34:44
Speaker
He's not just beating up on these back of the roster guys. He's showing legit promise. It's physical. He can tackle and he has that kind of man coverage ability, which, you know, we'll see just how useful that actually is during the season. But yeah, like you said, he's done everything that he possibly can to just put himself into the limelight. It's fantastic.
00:35:03
Speaker
Well, and like you just said, it's not like he's doing it against grubs because during OTAs, he was the only one that was going up against the number ones because Jair wasn't practicing, Rasool wasn't practicing. So he, and of course, you know, Stokes is still out. So that meant he had to step up and he was doing it consistently against Christian Watson and Dobbs and Toray and those guys. So.
00:35:32
Speaker
You know, what a steal for a seventh rounder if he can really make it work during the regular season. Now I hope that they don't do to him like they were trying to do with some other guys. You know, he's a boundary type guy. He's not a slot guy. Leave him in the boundary and let him eat. Don't let him, don't try to put him in a spot where he's not going to be able to handle it.
00:35:57
Speaker
You know, so I mean, I can't say that he can't play slot, but to me with the way he was playing, he looked like a pure boundary guy. So, you know, throw him out on the boundary.
Concerns about safety positions
00:36:10
Speaker
Hell, if you've got to move, resuled to the frigging safety position, do it. And you know, you're going to be able to do it.
00:36:17
Speaker
uh without much hiccup because you can you know you've got carrington who's bawling out on that side and then you got jair on the other side and if stokes comes back you've got another one who can play boundary
00:36:30
Speaker
So, yeah, it never hurts. It never hurts to have those guys around, right? Definitely. Something I want to quickly touch on here as well is this safety room. I guess if we have to look at something that was not the greatest from the preseason game, it probably is that safety room. Anthony Johnson Jr. hasn't really kind of had the incredibly strong start to camp.
00:36:57
Speaker
um he hasn't really solidified himself even with the starters at all um and you know you guys like like Jonathan Owens who i never really expected much out of in the first place but not the pretty pretty weak showing from him there a few missed tackles and uh kind of misreading some of these run plays here
00:37:14
Speaker
Um, but on the other hand, you know, to various more has been extremely promising. I think he's kind of in line to be the starter week one as it is, uh, even over, over, over Rudy Ford, which I think is quite interesting. Um, as a guy who was kind of intended to be a special teams piece, but I mean, you know, what did you see from these safeties here? Good and bad.
00:37:32
Speaker
Well, I will agree and disagree with you on Johnson. I think he started off slow, but then as he got more comfortable, he was starting to make plays. I think there was one hit he made towards the end of the game that even made my jaw hurt. Um, so I mean, and I, again, I think it was when we were talking to Paul Bredl.
00:37:55
Speaker
You got to remember that anthony johnson's only played the safety position for like two years So he's still trying to he's still trying to get comfortable in that. Did you hear the train go by? Um, but You know, he's still going to have time I now this is where I disagreed with paul I don't think there's going to be a way that they're going to be able to stash him on the practice squad and
00:38:24
Speaker
I don't see how they could cut him either. Maybe it comes down to Jonathan Owens. Now I have to give Jonathan Owens credit. He played the run well. Yeah, when there was some broken coverage, it was usually him doing it. But other than that, I thought he played the run well. He was hitting the line.
00:38:52
Speaker
Very well, and he was you know fill in the role as well as he could I I don't know I It's so hard to say because there's not really much there to talk about yeah ward has looked all right But he still hasn't been a world beater by no means Rudy Ford hasn't looked you know like a superstar I Don't know did Savage play
00:39:22
Speaker
That's a bad question to ask. If you can't remember if he played or not, then he didn't really do anything. I'm pretty sure that he played. But yeah, I think I don't know. Savage is such a weird one because he's had a lot. He has had highs. He has had his moments. There is also still those kind of messy plays and him getting beaten relatively regularly as well.
00:39:44
Speaker
Um, I thought Benny sap in a way, kind of like I just talked about Anthony Johnson started off a little slow, but then the more he got comfortable, the more, uh, he started showing up. Cause I mean, he even had an almost interception and it was a nice play too. I really thought that they were going to overturn it the way it landed. Did you, were you able to see that? Uh, yeah, no, but by the time it was halftime, I wasn't able to keep going.
00:40:11
Speaker
Okay. Well, it was along the sideline and he read the play. Well, he jumped for the pass. And when he came down, he had one foot in and he didn't get the other foot down, but it looked like he got his one ass cheek down, um, before he went out of bounds, but they must've not thought so when they went back and reviewed it. Uh, but I mean, it was a really nice play and, uh,
00:40:41
Speaker
Uh, so I, I think it's more that when these guys start getting comfortable is when we're going to see more out of them. Sure. Um, because they are rookies, you know, Benny sap was undrafted. Anthony Johnson's only played the position a couple of years and was drafted in the seventh round. Um, now on the other hand, Jonathan Owens to various more or yeah, more, did I call him ward earlier? I think I called him ward earlier.
00:41:11
Speaker
Oh, well, if he's listening to this, I'm sorry, but I doubt you're listening to it. So I don't care. That they shouldn't know a little bit more, they shouldn't have to become comfortable in a situation. You know, they're the veterans of the group, they should be able to handle it a little bit more.
00:41:36
Speaker
So you should be seeing more out of them than you do the guys that are going to take a little bit longer to get into it. But yes, the thing that's going to help the safety position is if our corners come out and just ball out and the pass rush hits home, then we won't have to worry about safety play. Yeah, I mean, you need at least two of the three to be good, you know. Yeah, because like,
00:42:05
Speaker
Especially recently in the NFL, we've seen the development of placing a lot more value on safeties, but traditionally, it looked like 10 years ago, the safety position was not valued as highly as it is in the modern NFL. If we have a really strong corner group, and some of those guys are, because this team plays a lot of quarters coverage as well, the corners are, and the fact is that Jaya and Russell are going to be covering a decent amount of the time.
00:42:30
Speaker
So it's not like the safeties are all alone by themselves. And I'm sure the coaching staff is aware of their weakness there. So it will be interesting to see how they tackle that. But yeah, it's not really an ultra promising safety performance here.
00:42:45
Speaker
who knows with all the corners that they're producing, maybe they'll turn one of them into the Charles Woodson type roamer, then he can be like a hybrid safety corner type deal where he can just roam around the field and make plays. You know, maybe that'd be a good thing for Ruzool to do. I'd hate to take Jair and put him in that position because I think he's the type of guy you just put him
00:43:07
Speaker
you know say that's your guy cover him you know basically Jair Island so I mean maybe that's something they'll end up doing and that would help out the safety position too because then you could play like one safety and one roamer and who's theoretically in that safety position but will just basically be your playmaker
00:43:33
Speaker
Um, so who knows? And I would also look towards cut downs. Um, you know, if, if a safety comes free at some point during cut downs, then I could see the Packers making a jump at them.
00:43:51
Speaker
It's very possible. It's very, very possible.
O-line battles and strategies
00:43:54
Speaker
The last thing I want to talk about here, kind of as we're just finishing up the time, this O-line battle is probably the most fascinating part of camp for me at the moment. I mean, when you look at kind of just the way they've been juggling around these guys and they haven't been shy about the fact that this is an open competition at some of these spots. I mean, to some degree, at least one of the guard spots is up for grabs or up for discussion.
00:44:18
Speaker
The center position is absolutely up in the air. Right tackle is still a mystery. And we get to the depth even. I mean, you know, they had Rashid Walker playing with the ones today. And it really seems like Rashid Walker and Caleb Jones are in line to be those backup tackles behind kind of Yosh Naiman, Zach Tom and Bach Tiari obviously.
00:44:38
Speaker
Um, and then, even then, like, you know, it's kind of like some, you know, Zach Tom is one of the best five. It's just trying to figure out where exactly that is. And you know, some people have kind of entertained the idea of putting him at guard and Elton moves to center or Josh Meyers moves, Josh Meyers moves to guard and Tom becomes the center or, you know, Tom becomes the tackle. Josh Meyers stays at center and, you know, maybe Sean Ryan slots in somewhere. This, this battle is just so fascinating. And.
00:45:03
Speaker
What I want to know, Joe, is what is kind of your best five here? Where would you put these guys? Well, before I give you the best five, I'm going to make this comment. If Josh Meyers is not center, or how do I want to put this? If Zach Tom is playing interior, then they've done a whole lot of reshuffling. I don't think
00:45:32
Speaker
Well, no, I even put that wrong. I don't know how I want to put this because I don't think Zach Tom, unless it comes down to it where they really don't trust Josh Myers, there's no way they're going to kick Josh Myers out to guard and put Zach Tom center. I think if Zach Tom is playing anywhere in the interior, it's because they don't trust Josh Myers anymore.
00:45:56
Speaker
So you're hypothetical where you put Tom at center and kick Myers out the guard. I just don't see it happening. I don't see Elton moving. I think he's pretty rock solid right at the left guard position. Right tackle is open. I know they wish that they could just keep
00:46:23
Speaker
Yash as a backup left tackle and not have to worry about switching him in and out if there's an injury or something. They've talked about that a lot where they would rather keep him at one position than trying to move him around as needed. I think, in my opinion right now, my five guys would
00:46:50
Speaker
Obviously, Bakhtiari and Elton at the left side probably Meyers at center for now, Runyon, and then Tom at right tackle. Yash can do Yash things. There's no doubt about it. I'm not denying Yash as a player. I just think that Tom is the better potential
00:47:14
Speaker
Um, and I think he played better at the tackle position than he did at the guard position when he was thrown in there. I agree with that. Absolutely. Um, and I know we did, we've disagreed on this a lot, but I think John Runyon's pretty much earned his spot and there should be no need for him to move. I, is he a top 10 guard in the league? No.
00:47:42
Speaker
But he definitely is not a scrub either. He's not the weak link of that line. So I mean, he's a dog. That's pretty much how I got to put it. He's a dog. He's going to go out there and play the game without getting any kind of recognition for it.
00:47:59
Speaker
Um, but if I had to say the wink link, it's probably Myers, you know, I joked about this a lot this past year where, um You know, he seemed to make his best blocks against his own teammates. Um So, uh
00:48:17
Speaker
And I mean, he's had his ups and downs. And like I said earlier about the snaps, you know, he's trying to get used to another quarterback. It's not like you can just snap your fingers and have a connection with a guy. So it's going to be interesting what they do. But I just I think if they put Tom at any of the interior positions, that means Josh Myers is out.
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, look, for me, this, if it being kind of, for me being honest about who's the best, like the best players in general, I, it's tough for me to put Josh Meyers there right now. I think that Josh Meyers has the potential to be a better guard than Jon Runyon is purely just based on physical talent. And obviously that's a lot to say without having seen him there. But right now, I think that you should try and solidify
00:49:14
Speaker
one side of the line really rock solid. And, you know, I'm a big believer in, you know, if this like, uh, pick a, like pick a weakness that you're going to have and just kind of deal with that one weakness. If you have holes on either side of the line, if you shuffle around Elton and you know, you're kind of playing around the center, et cetera. I think it's just like, it's just too much to deal with. If you, if you know that your right tackle is not super strong, or if you know that your right guard is not as strong, you can deal with
00:49:39
Speaker
You can work around that. But if Jordan Live is constantly worrying about both sides, I think it's a recipe for a nightmare. So if it was me, I would keep it so that the back to Yaron Elton on the left side, obviously I would put Tom in the middle. I would leave running on the right side and just deal with whatever Yosh does at right tackle and kind of see how it goes.
00:50:00
Speaker
I think, you know, next year is when it gets really interesting kind of what's going to happen with by Tiari. And I think it's why they're really pushing these kind of backup tackles to see what they can do. But at the moment, yeah, that's kind of my ideal line or who I think are the best five as we stand here currently. I think that Tom is like his best position is at center. I don't think he has enough kind of mass to really run it at the guard position as well as he could at tackle center.
00:50:29
Speaker
Um, I think at that point you might as well just put Sean Ryan in there. Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it is like this, this competition is just very, very fascinating. Um, has been looking good according to what I've been reading coming out of camp. So, I mean, that's a possibility too. Uh, I mean, looking at it next year, there's a real possibility that, you know, Tom's at center or Tom's at right tackle.
00:50:54
Speaker
um i i'd hate to put him over at left tackle but i mean i suppose i would if i had to not that he couldn't do it it just i i don't know you'd have two of the same type of guys on that left side because i i view him kind of similar to i do elton um
00:51:14
Speaker
Not that it's anything bad, but you know, I just, I mean, Elton is a bit more physical though, to be fair. There's, I know you said you got to get going, but I just, I thought it was funny after the joint practices that Elton was the one that was getting into the scraps and knocking people around. And, um, yeah, he got escorted out of, uh, practice because of the fights and I just, that was hilarious.
00:51:42
Speaker
Yeah, because I just didn't see it coming from Elton. You know, he's that quiet kind of laid back type of guy, but I'm glad to see the fire out of him. And one other thing that I forgot to mention about Malik Heath that block that he put on, uh, what was the guy's name? Tell that piss tell off so much that he drew the fucking penalty. Yeah, that's beautiful. We definitely got an Allen Lazard replacement right there. And more the athletic Allen Lazard.
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, yeah, that's all the time that I have for today. Is there anything else you want to say here kind of before we finish up? You know, with Nick leaving, just kind of keep your eyes out for news. You know, we kind of got to do some changing up and stuff. This pod isn't ending. It might come out as a different name.
00:52:41
Speaker
or something like that. But we are going to continue. And we'll see what happens for the future. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, I kind of want to say,
00:52:57
Speaker
You know, thanks to Joe for really kind of helping me as cheesy as it sounds, kind of like realizing a lot of
Nick's farewell reflections
00:53:03
Speaker
my dreams. You know, the guys that I've gotten to meet by being on this pod and, you know, I've had so much fun doing it is this, you know, like, like Wes Hodd, Jacob Westendorf, getting to meet, you know, meet, not do a pod with Jimmy Christensen.
00:53:17
Speaker
You know, obviously Todd V, Mike Colano, Brian Marfy, Sarah Kelleher, Joe Mackey, Maggie J. Loney. I mean, I never would have thought I would have got an opportunity to actually meet and talk to these people. And there's people that I've left off, and I apologize if that's you, but I've loved every second of doing this, and it's a shame that I don't really have as much time anymore.
00:53:38
Speaker
I doubt that I'm going to be permanently extradited from this publication. I do plan to kind of just be around and obviously check in on how it's going all the time and I'll still be listening. It's just kind of time for me at the moment. Need to take a bit of a break, I guess. But yeah, thanks to whoever does listen. I really appreciate everyone and appreciate the friends that I've made here. Getting a bit sappy, but
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah, I've loved doing this and thanks to Joe for really being my better half of this operation. I never knew I was going to be a better half of anything. But yeah, like I said, the future is still bright and how do they say it's not
00:54:24
Speaker
Well, here you go. It's not goodbye. It's I'll see you later. Exactly. Exactly. Well, guys, for the last time or last time in a while, you can find us on Twitter at Nicholas gr gr Joe at Iowa underscore Joe 86, the podcast at Outback underscore Packers. And, you know, make sure you like rate and subscribe. We officially have a star rating on on Spotify now, which is quite nice. Yeah, until next time. See you later.