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Inshallah, I'm Gay: Out of the Closet, and Into the Discourse.- Episode 14
74 Plays8 days ago
Coming out? Groundbreaking. Khalil and Ali unpack the overhyped ritual of telling people you’re gay... as if that fixes capitalism, your parents, or the Zionist occupation. From jerking off to gender politics to surviving Eid with the straights™, your favourite queer Palestinian divas drag respectability, heterosexual fragility, and $10 mango cakes. We reflect on when to be visible, when to be strategic, and why queerness is a vibe, not a job application. Also: tattoos, Berlin, and confronting Andrew Cuomo voters at the function. It’s giving… jihad but make it personal growth.
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Transcript
Unconventional Breakfast Choices
00:00:09
Speaker
Good morning. ah are you? good. Alhamdulillah. Yeah, life has been good. Winding down from New York. Moving, inshallah, in like three days.
00:00:24
Speaker
Doing the thing. You seem a little haggard this morning. No, I'm good. I'm good. I had breakfast. I made us turkey burgers for breakfast, which is insane. but I actually but i believe any food can be eaten any time of day.
00:00:39
Speaker
Yeah, we just have like turkey burgers and i'm like, when am I going to make these before we leave? So like we're having turkey burgers for breakfast. We ate them on English muffins. so you You know what I had for breakfast?
00:00:50
Speaker
What? ah any A mini mango cake. Yum. Sounds delicious. When it's a mini cake, it's like a serving of four. It's a whole cake.
00:01:02
Speaker
Oh, hell yeah. Slay. Do you have a picture? i have it. I have like a fourth of it left in the fridge. Maybe i'll go pull it out at some point. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. I love mango anything and is this it's the season. So does it have actual mangoes?
00:01:17
Speaker
No, but like it's a nice like mango puree, like i jelly kind of thing. I think it's lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's $10, you know? Sounds lovely.
00:01:27
Speaker
Lovely.
Frustrations with Apartment Applications
00:01:28
Speaker
How are you? How's life? Good. I mean, I think I applied. I applied for an apartment, but I half-assed it. When I was, like, doing the up application, i was, like, you know Snooki on the computer when she's, like, oh, my God, this is going to be so bad.
00:01:44
Speaker
Like, I don't know. Like, I just hate ah i hate apartment applications. Like, i can pay I can afford this. Like, I just feel like by virtue of, like, my pay stub and, like, the fact that I've been paying significantly more rent for longer should just be, like, okay, approved, girl. Like, right why do you need three to four references? Why do you need to, like, all this stuff, like...
00:02:05
Speaker
So annoying. Anyway, we'll see if that was a mistake or not, because then maybe they'll just um' I feel like if they want clarification, they'll just ask me because it's not that competitive in Winnipeg. But then the other part of me is like they could also just reject me and be like, we're just going to wait for somebody less stupid.
00:02:20
Speaker
No, they're going to approve it right away. I think it's just a formality. and Well, to be honest me honest, honestly, I don't really care. There's a lot of apartments and I kind of decided on this one kind of haphazardly.
00:02:33
Speaker
So if I got rejected, it's my sign from Allah to yeah be patient and they look more carefully because I went on the upper end of my budget to get kind of the luxuriousness that I wanted.
00:02:46
Speaker
Hell yeah. So, don't know. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. I'm not i'm not concerned.
Lil' Kim Tattoo and Personal Significance
00:02:52
Speaker
But i had i had I've been having fun, going to parties, I've been at the beach. Oh, I got a new fucking tattoo.
00:02:58
Speaker
Oh, shit. Oh, shit. What is that? Who is she? Who is she is the question. comment belllo is a Tokyo Tony? Girl, fuck you. No. It's little... I mean, right now it's bleeding a lot. Like, there's a lot of... value Yeah, yeah. Cup in there.
00:03:16
Speaker
And then... ah So, it's Lil' Lil' Kim. oh Like, these face Lil' Kim. Okay. Okay, okay. You know, I don't think I know what Lil' Kim looks like. I'm gonna go through it.
00:03:28
Speaker
Look up... Oh, the ninety s Yeah, 90s. The Flay. Holy shit, she looked so different. Yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
Wow. But anyway, she suffered a lot of people being very racist towards her. Her career was based off her sexuality and as a black woman earlier on when it was a white woman's game or at that point in time.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah. Like people would always tell her she would look better if she's lighter. She always she also had daddy issues and would date men. and And this isn't her fault in any way, but like they she just got several like broken noses and like it a la got nose jobs because of that. So people make fun of her, but like I don't know. I feel like she gave a lot of herself to the world, and you know what? She's happy.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, she's a product of her own. And you know what? Some people like people, honestly, it's kind of like, in a way, the feline snatched, plumped, Look is kind of cunty in a way like yeah, we make fun of it Sometimes but like I don't know I feel like in other cases like it's just gender affirming surgery, right?
00:04:37
Speaker
Right. It's it's how she feels euphoric in her. Yeah, that's all he has a daughter. She's happy and I have now she's forever Immortalized on my arm. Hell yeah nice um and I also got some script on my butt that says let me sit with that That's so funny.
00:04:58
Speaker
I like it. I like a good double entendre. That's cute. That's cute. So that's what I've been up to.
Life Transitions and New Beginnings
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah. ah I also, like, I feel like this past two weeks has been super, super busy, and like, back to back. It's it's obviously fun, but at the same time, like, draining because I'm saying goodbye to a lot of people as I'm, like, getting ready to leave.
00:05:21
Speaker
You're weeping soul. You're having a pity party. Basically. It's been like work and then immediately after work, pity party. And then work and then pity party. So I finished my last day of work on Friday.
00:05:33
Speaker
ah oh and was it this Friday or last Friday? I think it was last Friday was my Laylat set. And it was amazing. I don't know we've spoken since then, but it was so much fun. No, we didn't.
00:05:45
Speaker
It was so much fun. I had so much fun. It was great. My a mix for that day is on SoundCloud. Go check it out. Oh, we're going to charge you for the promo. We pay for advertising slots, cost money on this podcast.
00:06:00
Speaker
But yeah, but that's basically it. I'm excited to move, actually. I feel ready. I'm ready finish the next chapter. And you know what I think of it as? like, I'll put it in your perspective, in your terms. Like you have, you know, you did, you know, you could live in New York successfully.
00:06:18
Speaker
and it's like, now is the time to, you know, look at a different place and find, you know, the beauty in it or find how you challenge yourself. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. I guess, yeah, if you live in New York and you enjoy it, you should probably be able to survive and live anywhere and thrive, not just live.
00:06:36
Speaker
exactly yeah that's how i feel about living in the city i'm like i've done this i can do it again if i need to and down the line but yeah ready i'm excited to slow down yeah yeah yeah um i have something else to tell you tell me but you have to not judge me okay i already didn't judge you over the little kim tattoo That's not even something to ever judge me over. where Whoever thinks this is a stupid tattoo, like, ah you need psychiatric help. You need to love yourself more. Like, you're you're projecting on something that is unequivocally, like, the most aesthetic thing I've ever seen.
00:07:15
Speaker
Right, right.
Coming Out and Podcast Break Announcement
00:07:16
Speaker
But I just wanted to tell you that I'm gay. Really? yeah
00:07:23
Speaker
I don't know how i feel about that. and um mean That's why the podcast is going on summer break. Yeah, I can't. I can't do this anymore. europe You're a faggot?
00:07:35
Speaker
Really? i wouldn't put it in those terms. so no. ah Yeah, well, I have something to tell you as well. But you can't judge me.
00:07:47
Speaker
no promises. I'm also gay. What is...
00:07:55
Speaker
What is Allah going to say? Gardner. Have you spoken to a sheikh before?
00:08:04
Speaker
About my queerness? I have not. But I've spoken to a psychiatrist, which we've talked about before. And he was basically a sheikh. And he wanted to suck my dick. so no he Did he really? No, no.
00:08:16
Speaker
ah
00:08:18
Speaker
It would be so funny if he was just like, huh? So anyway, this is how you prevent and gayness from spreading. Yeah, I need to... Oh, Jesus. ah um So that's a good segue into our topic, right?
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. We are talking about coming out Matt, this is purely fan service. Yeah. Because Addy and I are going to be very busy and want to enjoy our summers.
00:08:46
Speaker
And we actually lose money doing this podcast, believe it or not. Right. This is truly a joy. Like, it's a joy for us. I pay.
00:08:57
Speaker
Like, I get charged every month for the olive people. Yeah, no, this is truly has been like just a passion project. And we do it because it's enjoyable engaging with the community and such. yes, we are going on a little hiatus.
00:09:14
Speaker
and inshallah we will be back we plan on coming back yeah not as frequently but yeah yeah we'll see we have a we have a no what do you mean we'll see i'm i'm locked into a year ah paying for a video editing software like yeah might as well take advantage We paid a year for the podcasting service too.
00:09:34
Speaker
Right. So, you know, let's use this investment. yeah Yes. so don't get Don't get lazy. Hashtag put in the comments below. Ali, don't get lazy. Ali, don't get lazy. That should be the title of this podcast.
00:09:49
Speaker
But anyway, so the actual topic is coming out. So Khalil has prepared some stuff for us. So I'm going to pass it over to you. Oh, okay. She said, let's get this the fuck over with.
00:10:01
Speaker
I got places to be and things to do. No, I'm good. I'm good. yeah
00:10:09
Speaker
I'm just going to get to the top of my thing. Okay. That's a good time. So what did coming out mean to you before you ever did it? And how has that definition changed for you now? Oh my God, this is a good question. Because before I came out, like before i I guess when I first was like, oh shit, I am gay, was the first time I said out loud.
00:10:31
Speaker
So then i thought coming out meant... like the solution to everything. Like if I were to fully be out and gay, that means i am happy and satisfied and everything is rainbows and sunshine and like, you know, beauty, blah, blah, blah. And then I realized I'm like, oh, actually, once you reach inner peace and you're like validating yourself, you realize coming out is kind of a sham.
00:11:02
Speaker
Like there's nothing cornier than coming out on coming out day. I'm stealing that from Trixie. She said that because I feel like just be who you are and live your life.
00:11:15
Speaker
You don't need to. It doesn't have to be a statement. It doesn't have to be this big thing. If you love yourself, that's all that matters. ah You tore with that.
00:11:28
Speaker
Hell yeah. Thank you. i I feel like that perfectly encompasses a lot of what I've been thinking about lately in terms of many different identities is when you develop the so identities and labels are like a stepping stone to like self-actualization.
00:11:47
Speaker
And then when you become confident in yourself, yeah, you realize that it's like, I don't need these things anymore. Because i am who I am. And like at first, maybe those things helped me understand why I was different from most people.
Identity and Self-Acceptance
00:12:02
Speaker
Right. Right. Because in society, like people don't understand the labels that they subscribe to if they just so happen to end up in like the statistical majority.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah. So then they don't really see how their labels really kind of like you subscribe to those labels and then those labels subscribe to you. And it's like a feedback loop. And I think that if like, I mean, there's a lot of white gays who get trapped into that. But I think as queer, queer Palestinians, we're like doubly ostracized. So we really think in depth about our identity and what that means and who is it is ah important to And it's like the queerness part isn't necessarily real.
00:12:47
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I always say I'm Palestinian first because, you know, that's ah that's a place that has a history, that has a language that means something. But like who I have sex with is like fluid and changing and like gender is a whole other thing. So it's just like...
00:13:06
Speaker
You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, if I slept with a woman, no one would say I was straight. I'm forever going to be, like, gay anyway. Like, it it's, like, it's really not about who you sleep with. So it's just, like, to be damned with it. Like, I know what I like. I know where I stand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:23
Speaker
I have two points. you But coming, oh, coming at so? Yeah. I would say...
00:13:31
Speaker
i I don't know what happened, but for me, it was very much a switch. I was just kind of like, okay, I just knew i was like not down to marry woman. I was like, this is no way possible that I could satisfy satisfy the status quo of what was being presented to me and I just accepted that that really fast then I switched to like very pragmatic like okay now how do I survive how do I like get to like the silver bullet solution that you were talking about is when I'm like this is no longer an issue and I'm no longer have to constantly perform but then once I got to that I realized that that wasn't even necessarily my problem which is kind of a mindfuck
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you mean by that? Do you mean, like, you realize that being gay isn't that big of a deal? it exact it was more of, like, I just, rather than me, the problem was I wasn't out to my parents.
00:14:31
Speaker
It was, i wasn't, I didn't have the confidence enough to set the boundaries with my parents. Yeah. I mean, which is not fair to ask a child to like, grow into with their parents.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah. But like looking back at like the real crux of the issue is is that because it's the, it's not really any of their business rights. i Like I didn't, I like, you know what I mean? Like I could have just, there could have been a lot of different scenarios, but ultimately like, I don't think coming out yeah yeah is a thing in terms of like how people position it. Like, Oh, my family knows.
00:15:07
Speaker
Right. Like, ah like how you were saying, if you love yourself, That's Period. That's all that matters. I'm curious what you think about this. But recently I was hanging out with an ex-co-worker. We are still very close friends.
00:15:19
Speaker
And she currently works in Michigan. And she was saying how one of her co-workers is gay. And how some of her their old crusty bosses like still say inappropriate things to him. Like...
00:15:33
Speaker
oh, when are you getting married to a woman and stuff like that? And he just kind of like takes it because he doesn't want to make any trouble, but that it really affects him. And I thought about it and I'm like, why?
00:15:47
Speaker
Okay, look, not to say that obviously like hurtful comments hurt, but I think homophobia is not that upsetting to me. Like, I think to me, anti-Palestinian rhetoric and like,
00:16:02
Speaker
pro-Zionist speech is more like hurtful than if somebody were to call me like a faggot or even like to other me because of my gayness. I feel like I'm like, okay, yeah, and that goes back to the whole like once you're secure in your own self, who cares what other people think? I don't need you to think like me.
00:16:26
Speaker
I think the important piece to that though is like how protected from violence you are. but obviously, like, literally there's zero protection for Palestinians. Right.
00:16:37
Speaker
And the protections for queer people are, like, more significant and, I mean, limited depending on who you are, or where you are, and how you present and all that. But I just, yeah, I feel more emboldened as to stand up for myself as a queer person because it's like, the fuck?
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah. Like, what are you going to do? Come and kick my ass? Right. Right. But in some places, like Berlin, for example, that is like a real um issue and where i like you do have to ah like police yourself in order to be safe or you have to potentially like be prepared to fight a bunch of people.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah. You wait for your pro-Palestine stuff, you mean? No, I mean for being like visibly queer. Oh, really? I didn't know that about. In certain areas in Berlin, um like taking the metro, walking, like I was assaulted, attacked, spat yelled at.
00:17:37
Speaker
That's great. And like, and like, I've like, I've heard stories and like, I believe i mean, it experienced it, but I've heard stories of much worse in terms of like, stabbing, being beaten up and stuff like that. So, yeah you know, I think it's like, you know, protect your physical safety first always.
00:17:55
Speaker
And that's tough to do because it's like you're regressing on the Maslow's hierarchy right of needs. But the difference is like it's easier to not it's easier to just pretend you're not gay than to literally not be, you know, person in Palestine, a person in Lebanon, a person in Iran, a person and wherever the fuck America and Israel decide to bomb.
00:18:19
Speaker
you know what I mean and yeah yeah that's the thing I'm just like my priorities have shifted and I think yeah like my we've progressed yeah yeah in certain ways we have but in certain ways I think individually we've advanced as horrible as what's happening in like the Middle East region I feel like it's made me more confident in my identity because I'm like yeah I don't associate myself with this place that I'm in currently and I don't like the government's here and I'm very homesick and you know, like that kind of thing. So if anything, it emboldens me to feel more like proud of my otherness.
00:19:02
Speaker
I don't want to be the same as you. And I hope it continues to embolden people. I think like the next step is like wondering, does it
Activism and Personal Safety
00:19:12
Speaker
embolden you to the point where you're willing to put some actual like risk on the table, you know, because I like know a lot of people who are organizers.
00:19:22
Speaker
um And like, I obviously like go to protests and demonstrations and I have my own forms of resisting and When it comes especially to direct action, like when the cops come, like, how scared are you? You know what I mean? Like, yeah. ah ah And like for a lot of people, like there's so many different things that could be on the line.
00:19:44
Speaker
Financial, taking care of other people, your own health. Like, I don't know. I'm not saying like everyone should put their lives on the line, but like. obviously there's a dude yeah like when the gun when like when they point the gun at you which is a very easy thing that they could do at any point in time like i personally think i recently reposted a thing on my story where it's talking about like know what popular opinion doesn't fucking matter they'll just they'll do whatever they want regardless of what the majority people think they need maybe like 20 30 percent of people to agree with them and then they just need to control the men with the guns and like the drones and the missiles and like
00:20:20
Speaker
they'll do whatever not to be say it's completely fucking hopeless but in order to stop that i don't know how organizers and people who are organizing against this i don't know how a couple of us don't put our bodies on the line in a significant way yeah yeah there definitely has to be sacrifice for that like mood was in prison for how long three months yeah yeah so i don't know
00:20:48
Speaker
I'm not trying to say anything to tip off the CIA, but... Right, right. I feel like there are definitely many, many ways that you can, like... ah So in Islam, jihad means to, like... I know that sounds... Yeah, we're going... i know, I've heard this. We're going back. Jihad doesn't mean what mainstream media thinks it means. It just means kifa, like you're...
00:21:14
Speaker
putting you're doing your best in the name of a greater you like utopia. you know like You're doing what you can. And if it's if it's in getting your degree, if it's in like building a business, if it's in whatever, blah, blah, blah. All these things are also jihad because you're also like putting in time, efforts, and money to advance jihad.
00:21:35
Speaker
Not just you, but your community. yeah Also, like, literally, I don't know, like, you have free speech. Like, I feel like I've seen people with certain symbols of things that I don't like. And I've said to people in public, like, go fuck yourself.
00:21:51
Speaker
Right. Like, even if you feel like confrontation sometimes is meaningless, I think it's a like as a society, if we have the numbers to band together and make these people feel like shit in every space they go into.
00:22:03
Speaker
yeah that's a small win. And like that could change that. I don't know. I hate to be the person, but it's like the small things lead to the big things. What other answers do I have for you?
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, i i exactly. I think that the you do have the you actually have free will to do whatever you want. So yeah in John recently like graduated from his thing. And ah at the like after party or whatever, where there was like drinks and stuff, I was talking some of his co-workers and one of them voted for Andrew Cuomo in New York.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I straight up just started like ripping him a new one, just explaining to him... why that is a dumb, dumb idea. And like you as a, especially as a Democrat, and he can't, and I think me like two years ago would never have done that. I would have just been like, oh, whatever. And just like ignored.
00:22:55
Speaker
But I was actually like, no, this is a teachable moment because you're actually a fucking dumbass for doing this. Like I literally was like, I, yeah, just explaining to him that Andrew Cuomo is a rapist.
00:23:07
Speaker
It's somebody who, I mean, I don't know if you know a lot about him or New York politics, That's familiar, yeah. But he's also a rich white kid who doesn't actually know what it's like to be a New Yorker. yeah go And also he's being endorsed and paid for by Israeli lobbyists and has gone on to say like very much like prioritizing Israel in his speech over New York itself.
00:23:32
Speaker
ah Whereas Dohran Mamdani, which a different candidate, has very clearly established, you know, like Palestine as his like compass and whatever and bubble blah, blah, blah.
00:23:43
Speaker
And so his counterpoint was like, well, I'm not just voting for one issue. And I was like, actually one issue trickles down to all the other things you've described. New Yorkers have a ranked choice ballot too?
00:23:56
Speaker
They do, but you're supposed to not rank Cuomo. Like, that's the thing. You're supposed to not even include him in the ballot because he's that horrible.
00:24:06
Speaker
You know what I mean? like But did this person rank? He ranked him one. He ranked the other guy two. That's disgusting. And I feel like our listeners probably already politically align with us and are like aware of like the whole situation.
00:24:19
Speaker
um But ah did you have a point? Yeah, with confrontation. that it's just that It's just that being able to like actually be like, actually...
00:24:30
Speaker
I disagree with you, and here's why. I feel like a lot of Palestinians maybe feel like we need to be quiet, or used to feel that way. Like, we can't really share our but political opinions because it's so unpopular. But I think now it's the time. they do will come after you. That's what I mean. Like, are you willing to put your job on the line? Are you willing to, depending on your status, put, like, your status on the line?
00:24:52
Speaker
Are you willing to, do you know what I mean? Are you willing to lose friends? Are you willing... Like, who are you willing to piss off and when and where? If someone who loves to piss people off, yeah shit will hit the fan and it will, like, it doesn't feel good.
00:25:05
Speaker
Right, right, right, yeah. I'm so ready to lose friends over the shit. Like, I don't care. Are you ready to go to jail? No, that I'm still not. I'm still not there. So and you know, sometimes I feel like then in that case, it's like, yeah, be strategic about your yeah confrontation.
00:25:22
Speaker
Me personally, I'm definitely someone with a lot less to lose. So I definitely like feel a lot more emboldened and reckless. Like I'm out there graffitiing. I'm out there like I was at like ah an encampment last summer and I literally like was pushing people.
00:25:39
Speaker
Because like these random Zionist agitators came, and it was just like insane like what they'll do to try to piss you off. And I was like, honestly, will play this game. Yeah. yeah Yeah. yeah Yeah.
00:25:52
Speaker
But you know what I mean? like No one has the run right answer, and I feel like you just have to evaluate your situation. Right. Everyone... And I think that this brings this back to coming out. and yeah so If you are a person who desires to Talk about and be like open about your sexuality or just like even just dress in like a queer way that signals a queer way because you like that aesthetic and that makes you feel whole and seen because like honestly without my earrings without my tattoos I would feel so sad and so like not myself it would feel like very dysphoric all of a sudden I think
00:26:34
Speaker
um So I can kind of empathize with that. But like at the same time, you know, if you're a listener in Saudi Arabia, like girl, You got to do what you got to do. You got to do what you got to do. And life's not fair. And you have to really accept that fact.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with Khalil. I think every yeah there's no one playbook that everyone needs to follow. You have to assess your own situation. come to the realize, like, find peace.
00:27:02
Speaker
Just find your own peace. Find a way to deal with it. Don't try to the minute that you're trying to control how other people feel to make yourself happy. That's a problem.
00:27:13
Speaker
You know what I mean? You can never derive your own happiness from other people's reactions. You need to find your own happiness and then other people can react however they want. But at the same time, when the time comes to collectively organize, like, you know, make sure you're tapped Yeah.
00:27:32
Speaker
That's the, that's like, because it's like, yeah, go find your peace, go, you know, you know, but at the same time, like, I feel like if everyone were to, like, pour into the streets and start rioting, you know, you don't want to be the person who's looking for peace.
Family Expectations and Cultural Biases
00:27:46
Speaker
Right. You want to be, like, ah you know, with the people at all times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. um Did you come out to yourself more than once, like in layers or was it all at once?
00:28:04
Speaker
It was definitely layers. So initially I thought, oh, this is just a phase. I for sure I'm going to get married to a woman and blah, blah, blah. Like even I used to trick myself and I used to like reward myself also when I like ah jacking off.
00:28:20
Speaker
I would I know who I would be thinking of a man to help me get to that point. And then right as I'm about to, I'll switch it out for a woman in my head.
00:28:32
Speaker
And then I'll be able to because I'm basically there. And then I'll like feel like you, you know, like I am straight. that but The most mental gymnastics. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. Mental girl math.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, no, literally, I was like, looks like I'm straight. Like, i i it's so crazy. You lying on the am I gay quiz? and No, literally, literally. Like, I, yeah, fully was in denial. And then, bit by bit, I think,
00:29:01
Speaker
And with honestly, like, again, my friends never like pressured me into being one thing or another. so I think they just like were accepting of whatever I said I was. And then bit by bit, as I started realizing, oh, shit, this isn't changing. And actually, I hate vagina.
00:29:17
Speaker
And actually, you know, like, I want to be with a man and blah, blah, blah. So it was layer by layer. Like, and I didn't even think it was possible for me to be in a relationship with a man until like,
00:29:30
Speaker
my early 20s like i thought there was no future for me in that regards that i would always have to like conform to what my parents wanted me to do and that i would just have to get over that you know what i mean like i thought i wouldn't have to marry a woman and just like pretend but then i realized actually there are options there's always a choice like there's always age did you realize there is a choice
00:29:56
Speaker
I think maybe be like 21, 22, 28, 21. twenty eight twenty one But when ah I think when I first moved to the States, which was 23, that was when I was like, I knew I wanted to date a man. Like I knew I wanted to be with a man. I knew that consciously that's why you went to the States.
00:30:15
Speaker
I mean, all jamer so that's a, I guess I may have said this before, but my biggest reason for like trying to get to the streets was to be queer and gay. Like that was my main driver, which is so funny because now I'm like, I'm so glad I had that fire under my feet because otherwise I would not have worked as hard as I did to make it to where I am now to be able to come here.
00:30:39
Speaker
Like if ah if me now was in the Middle East back then, i would have just been like, I'm staying here. you know, I'm staying there. Like I would not have tried as hard as I did. But yeah, the main reason was because it was life or death for me. Like I thought if I stayed in the Middle East, I would not be able to live a life that makes me happy, buth blah, blah.
00:30:58
Speaker
But obviously that's an exaggeration. and But honestly, sometimes it's just I feel like needing that experience. Like I needed to go away to develop that confidence because I feel like honestly, I would have got my ears pierced in front of my, even if I didn't tell my parents we're gay, I would have started getting tattoos. I would have got my ears pierced. I would have just been doing what I was doing. And I would have just been like, and what about it? Think what you want to think.
00:31:22
Speaker
And it still would have, they still probably would have had major issues and falling out. Right. But I just don't think I would have been strong enough to do that. at that time. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:34
Speaker
You need to, I think everyone needs a chance to like explore who they are in their own space, not in their parents space where it's already like, it's their space. You know what I mean? So you need to like leave the nest, figure out who you are, and then you can come back if that's what you want.
00:31:50
Speaker
Go into the darkness so you can see your own light. Yeah. um But for me, I feel like, I don't know, I never did any weird mental. Well, okay, I was like fully jerking off to gay porn being like, oh, I don't know what this is. Like, I hope like one day, I just thought it was like maybe a phase.
00:32:10
Speaker
I was doing the like making dua, like hoping it would change. But like not really like an entertaining ever like watching. Like, I mean, I would try to like look at a woman. I'd be like, I don't get it.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah. I'm just like, I just like, I don't get it. Like I never really like did any of that like switching. But then as soon as I graduated high school, I was kind of just like, nah, who am I kidding?
00:32:33
Speaker
Right. sit I was like, this shit's not changing. And also because I guess i just was getting less and less religious as i would just as I was just like getting older and seeing how the world worked. I was like, this is not...
00:32:51
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like, it's just, this doesn't make much sense to me. And know so then I was pretty able to just like shift from like, okay, I'm gay. Now how do I be gay and survive? Because I did, again, I didn't have the confidence.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. At that time. Were you ever, did anyone ever call you out when you weren't ready? Like if somebody has like a friend or something, then like, Girl, you're a gay. well I had rumors and stuff.
00:33:17
Speaker
But the thing is, I feel like I had enough confidence and I was confrontational enough to, like, kind of squash that shit or, like, deal with it. Like, people would ask and I'd just be like, no. And they'd be like, okay, he said no.
00:33:32
Speaker
yeah And, like, I guess that was maybe my defense mechanism was to go into, like, Well, I also have a quick wit and I'm funny. So it's just like i was I could either like rip you to shreds, make you laugh. Or I had other friends that because of my relationships, like people couldn't really like come for me like that.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But then also at the same time, I was a bitch. Right. And as you are now. i you know what? And now everyone wishes more people were bitches earlier on. I think so.
00:34:03
Speaker
Honestly, I had an opposite experience where people's comments used to destroy me. Like, if somebody called me out, like, being like, you're being a girl, or like like, they'd make fun of the way I said something by, like, emulating, it would destroy me. i would just, like...
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, but and and now, obviously, that's different. But it's a realization. Don't your parents drill into you? If someone does something to you, you go 10 times harder. So my mom, I think, actually, where she fucked up in her helicoptering. One time, i did I remember I was maybe six years old.
00:34:34
Speaker
Or meet somewhere between six and like 11. ah love and and Like elementary, like or early middle school. I came up to her and I was like, somebody called me gay.
00:34:46
Speaker
I told her that. It was like we me and a girl got in an argument and she's like, well, you're gay. ah She clocked your tea. Clocked my tea. And I remember it upset me then, but it didn't upset me a lot. But then I told my mom and my mom's reaction Like she just freaked out.
00:35:05
Speaker
And so she even like got the principal involved. She had her the principal bring me and that girl to sit down and for that girl to apologize to me.
00:35:15
Speaker
And I think that kind of reaction is not good. Because you're making it seem like this is a big deal. Like this is a problem. Instead of my mom being like, who gives a shit what that bitch thinks?
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah. You know, instead of being like, her words have no power. You like do whatever you want. You know, like you know what my parents would say? They'd be like, next time you go see that person and tell him his like, mom's a crack whore.
00:35:39
Speaker
Right. ya and That's the type of shit my parents were putting into my head. Yeah, yeah. Which, honestly, it might be even healthier than what my mom was doing. I think... Yeah, because your mom kind of protected you rather than empowered. Exactly. Like, she made me feel like it was something to be ashamed of. It was, like, a bad thing.
00:35:57
Speaker
Like, I shouldn't have... You know what i mean? So, I think, ah truly, as a child, the smallest things that parents or adults say really do impact you. So, be careful out there. If you're yeah you're a parent, don't fuck it up.
00:36:12
Speaker
Don't, oh my god, I think it's so, don't comment on your child's body ever, you fucking weirdo. Yeah. My family loved to do that shit. It was weird as fuck. I don't know why. yeah my parents do that too.
00:36:24
Speaker
Like, literally. howard like Especially when I got older and I'd see it happening to my younger cousins, I would literally get so fucking mad at my mom. I'd be like, I'd literally just be like, you're creepy as fuck. Stop talking about a seven-year-old's body.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I may have said this on the podcast before, but one time my uncle to his grandchild was like, kun zeleme, be a man. And my Jew, he's like two years old, barely standing.
00:36:48
Speaker
I'm not even kidding. And he's like, be a man. I'm like, what the fuck? Oh my God. That was my dad's favorite line. Yeah, that's horrible. Like, get over yourselves. Like, my grandpa, so anti-black. Like, if people got too tanned.
00:37:04
Speaker
Jesus. and it's just like, girl, what the fuck? Yeah. ah You're brown Palestinian refugee who used to eat out of the garbage can. And...
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, the things that our parents and grandparents had to like create these layers of hierarchy to give themselves meaning and power. I mean, my dad did that too with Shia people.
00:37:29
Speaker
For the longest time, he bought into the propaganda that they're the source of all the issues in the Middle East because it made him feel good to other people. Honestly, I think that's what it is. i think people like the idea that they're morally or just inherently better than someone else.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yes. Simply because they were, you know what I mean? It makes you feel good. And it's like, ew, that is horrible. That is literally... I wish I could talk to my dad right now because I'd love to hear his take on Iran because I remember before he was very hesitant to say he like appreciates Iran for their supportive like resistance. Yeah.
00:38:07
Speaker
But especially now, like, yeah, it's like, how do you, how do you feel about that? The, out of all the Muslim worlds, yeah the Shias that you so-called don't even but think are real Muslims are the only ones doing anything literally remotely Islamic. Literally.
00:38:20
Speaker
And it shouldn't just take that for us to humanize them. Like it shouldn't be, It shouldn't take this that, but like when it's that fucking obvious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the the version of Islam that you subscribe to fundamentally, like at its core, our leaders, our scholars, our political leaders are fucking fisting you up the ass with no loop.
00:38:43
Speaker
Literally. You're not even doing it consensually. Literally. Maybe that's why you're mad. No, literally, literally, literally. I think that is on the money. ah Yeah, yeah.
00:38:54
Speaker
What do, oh, no, well, we kind of covered that. i We always like getting to the questions I feel like as we're talking.
00:39:04
Speaker
are How do you feel about going into the close back into the closet in certain spaces? So every time I go back home, i I'm back in the closet. It used to be, again, this is a really good question.
00:39:16
Speaker
Because it used to be, like, maybe four years ago, so fucking difficult. Like, I used to go back and it used to, like, trigger all my prior traumas. And, like, it would, like, set me back so much, like, months of therapy where I would need to, like...
00:39:34
Speaker
dish out how this made me feel and how, like, again, because I wasn't fully convinced in my own self. Whereas now when I go back, It's so much easier because I'm like, all of you are weird.
00:39:49
Speaker
And I'm like observing, you know, like to me, it's entertaining. Like if anything, like I remember I was in, it was Eid one time and I was back home in the Middle East and I was in like that setting where like, you know how men sit on one side and women will sit on the other.
00:40:04
Speaker
And then just hearing all the men talk, like, wow, the straights are not okay. like What are they talking about? It was, like, a lot of politics, but a lot of, like... Their base shitty takes.
00:40:16
Speaker
Shitty takes. Shitty, shitty, stupid, dumb takes. Like, straight man, conservative takes. And I'm just like, whatever. But what straight Middle Eastern man, like, what are their political takes?
00:40:26
Speaker
I'm trying to, like, let me think of one.
00:40:35
Speaker
Like, they want women to go back to being less... included oh my god you know what i mean like they want like that kind of stuff literally like here it's like every other problem and they're like it's the immigrants and the trend yeah yeah yeah yeah fucking morons yeah exactly no that's exactly it was it' just like really you really think like they just say things to make themselves feel better i'm like you guys are so funny you're just all lame that's what it is you're all lame ah Yeah, but so I feel like now it's actually very enjoyable and very easy to do because I don't care what they think or say.
00:41:13
Speaker
i do, however, for my parents' own ah peace of mind, i I'm not like... I am back in the closet in all intents and purposes. Like, I'm not flaunting my partner. I'm not, like, talking about my life here. Nor do I want them to know. I think that's the difference, is that before... nice to keep it vague when you don't really like a bitch. It's like, I'm good.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, life is good. You know, work is good. yeah maybe I'll stay a couple more years. Like, they love to ask me, how long how much longer are you staying in this place? They say, don't know. Yeah, say, I don't know, maybe...
00:41:48
Speaker
Did I tell you the story about my uncle who like confronted me about you? Yeah, yeah yeah that was so funny. And again, I'm going to always act ignorant because you can't pin me down. Like you're never going to make me give you a straight answer on that.
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's easy. It's always easy to just be like, we'll see. Like I'm just in the moment, you know? Yeah. Which um I think it's like in I mean, this is a tying it back to Islam. And I think all things coming out.
00:42:16
Speaker
prepare for the Prepare for the worst. I feel like don't necessarily hope for the best, but just in every moment, you know, try to observe, try to find the things that make you laugh, a little enjoyment.
Managing Anxiety and Parental Conversations
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. do and Do you catastrophize? Like, do you think of the worst case scenario when you go into things? I struggle with that, yes. But because I'm so used to, like, always thinking of the worst case scenario, it's kind of like,
00:42:46
Speaker
It's like i because I expect it everything Sometimes life feels really good because it usually doesn't happen. And I'm always prepared for the worst case scenario anyway. So then when it does happen, I'm like, yes.
00:42:56
Speaker
But that's also not the best way to live because you do spend a lot of mental thinking over like cycle of thoughts. Like what if this doesn't happen? What if the would have what if what if what?
00:43:07
Speaker
And then it's just like, wait, that actually didn't even happen anyway. And I just like spent two hours being anxious for nothing. And, you know, I'm getting better at that. Especially with like, you know, with different, when when there's, when again, it's just about having the confidence.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah. but You know, I think it's definitely gay. Are you heading out? Okay. Bye. John. John says hi as well. it's Hi, John. Bye, John. He says hi. Bye. He says hi. Bye.
00:43:33
Speaker
Anyway, i definitely think it's gay Palestinian trauma to start to like get anxious about like analyzing possibilities because I used to do that so Which is a good skill though, because other people, it has use they don't they're not paying their credit card bills off. They're not like, you know, where they're at, their jobs. They're not ah where they are. They don't have like a good cheap apartment. like Like the thing is when you are meticulous and you are, when you're planning something, something that is like pragmatic, material, like you're coming from ah ah Bahrain to America, like taking all the exams, studying.
00:44:11
Speaker
This, this, this, this. yeah Like the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Like break everything up into steps and be like, hey, I need to do this. i need to do this. i need to do this. but But then you also at the same time have to just be like, ah when you take an exam, you studied, you did your best.
00:44:27
Speaker
It's hard to not be anxious about the results. yeah But like when you develop a sense of confidence and being like, I know I put it went all out on the floor. I did what I could and the rest is going to be fate. And just ready to deal with any kind of reality that comes next.
00:44:42
Speaker
Right. Whether it's the next step or re-evaluating the situation. Right. Where I think it was maladaptive for me was like when I think about times where I'm like trying to tell my mom something. Like let's say I'm like Okay, I'm going to tell my mom that I'm going to be living with someone and that this is the reality of the situation.
00:45:01
Speaker
In my head, I'll start seeing the conversation unfold, kind of like in a video game, you know how where you select the dialogue option? Yeah. Each one has like a consequence. If you say this, I'll say this. Yeah, yeah. And I'll think of all the possibilities and it would take like hours in my head of just like thinking, what is it going to be like? What's she going to say? How's she going react? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:45:25
Speaker
And then my therapist who finally broke that down was like, you're trying so hard to control how your mom is going to react to it. yeah You need to let that go.
00:45:36
Speaker
You need to just start thinking about what you need to say for your own, you know, like in ah in a way that makes you feel good. So you still, if you want to respect how your mom feels, that's great. But at the end of the day, when you say what you have to say, she has to be left to deal with it. You know, you can't like start focusing or controlling how she experiences that.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah. And the thing is, it's also like you have to see your mom as a person who's capable of making her own decisions and taking care of herself. Right. Like she had a full on life before you or even a thought in anyone's mind. So like devastating news coming from you and changing her whole or whatever. Like she has the tools in there, whether she wants to empower herself to reach them or not to like ah handle it. But it's like it's not your problem. Yeah. you That your therapist is tea for that. Yeah.
00:46:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:31
Speaker
Do you think our, well, speaking of, do you think our families grieve with the idea of us being queer or the idea that we no longer belong to them in the way that they hoped? Oh yeah, if it was up to my mom, I'd be chained to a radiator in a dungeon.
00:46:45
Speaker
I'm not even kidding when I say that. I am not even kidding. Like, she would actually prefer i be super safe and unhappy than living my life the way I see fit and her viewing it as, like, a danger.
00:47:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I really i don't understand. the It's hard for me to empathize with their feelings that I'm like dead to them or I'm so different because it's like almost insulting because it's like you are so stupid.
00:47:19
Speaker
You just didn't pay attention this whole time. Yeah. Like, how's it? I was there. yeah How did you not know? In fact, notoriously, one of the things my mom did say when I came out to her she was like, you think you could have been this way and I wouldn't know?
00:47:33
Speaker
i literally she was like, girl, yes. And then I like listed off all the times like so as a kid, like somebody would say something about me and the family like as like, oh you're being girly or whatever, and it would get to me.
00:47:45
Speaker
I'm like, no, I have been like this. You can't gaslight me into thinking this is a new development. It's not. I've always tried to pick. Yeah, exactly. My parents were like, oh, you like you went into the labels. It's like, no, girl. I remember I was there in my own brain. I loved. Hey, I wished I was with with all the girl cousins all the time.
00:48:03
Speaker
I hated being with the boys. yeah I remember in kindergarten, like thinking boy, like, I don't know what I thought, but I just knew I was like into like I thought was cute. And you know what? Also, I'm sure there's a shit ton of personality traits that you have that your mom actually loves.
00:48:21
Speaker
And I think that's one of the things I tried to explain to my mom. i'm like, the things that you like about me, the fact that I'm sensitive, the fact that I explore my emotions with you and we talk openly and like before.
00:48:33
Speaker
And the fact that like all these things are because I'm gay. You know, it's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not just a gay thing. I was, because my parents had to have a restaurant.
00:48:46
Speaker
I ran that place like nobody's business. ah like It was like the busiest day. i was always there because my brother, he just as a straight guy, if someone gets like as another customer gets angry, he immediately goes to like grabbing a baseball bat and like escalating threats.
00:49:02
Speaker
Like, my sister, she is too much of a... She shuts down. When shit hits the fan, she shuts down. Me, because I'm more aggressive and I'm more, like, able to tell people what to do and be like, this, this, this, and this.
00:49:15
Speaker
And I feel like that is, like like like, gay straight guys can't work in retail. Or, like, straight guys can't work in retail. But you see gay people working in shit and, like, they're organized. They, like, can, like... You know, like, there's that sassiness that, like...
00:49:28
Speaker
boldness that you know was appreciated and yeah compensated exactly exactly so it's like hello you can't just like it is yeah who you are they're all intertwined it's not like being gay is like a chunk of you it's like in a way all of you but it's not like saying that being gay all you are but at the same time it's like you know what i mean like Yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. And you know what I wish that because, you know, the fact that they're like grieving us and like they wish that we kind of continued this cycle of trauma is like being queer is what emboldened me to be like a quote unquote cycle breaker.
00:50:11
Speaker
And it would be a lot better if my brother and sister were more in on it. But because, again, I don't think they're the happiest people in the world, but it's period. It's like a cost benefit analysis.
00:50:22
Speaker
What's easier for them to just go with the things that they're already kind of like anyway. Like, okay, well, my sister's like, I like dick anyway. I want to have a baby. So might as well do this thing. Same thing for my brother. He's like, you know,
00:50:36
Speaker
i i I like women. i I want to have a baby. Let me just do this. Even though I know it's, he doesn't, that's you know what I mean? He would like to date and explore and be himself and do all those things, but it's just easier to do it their way. absolutely And that like adds on to the thing. And that's why like, it's not going to be that much of a cycle breaking Because they're continuing it. No, you're absolutely right. They are absolutely continuing it. I see it with my sister as well.
00:51:03
Speaker
Even though they're like, obviously of a different generation where their minds work differently, but they're buying into the same system. Yeah. oppressed our parents and now them. And even though, just like you said, it kind of does fit with their...
00:51:16
Speaker
thoughts because there nothing is forcing them to take risks. yeah Whereas for us, we're forced to like break out and like do something completely different and explore.
00:51:28
Speaker
And in a way, we have a freedom that they are never going to experience. To be able able to like choose whatever we want ah yeah ah and not like be shackled or chained like one path, even if that path to them seems desirable, they don't know any better because they haven't tried anything else.
00:51:49
Speaker
To every heterosexual, heteronormative, normie person out there, being in proximity to like queer baddies like us is the most alive you're ever going to be. Yes.
00:52:01
Speaker
And that is why you should be great. That's why I'm honestly, I have such an ego because I was saying this to someone who listens to the podcast who posted some crazy all lives shit matter in regards to the Middle East.
00:52:15
Speaker
like I when I speak to you I'm like this is I'm like saving you like yeah I'm I see myself it's like I it's a privilege exactly like you I see you drowning in the ocean I'm throwing you a life raft yeah don't try to come back and be like oh actually this this and this and this like no no and no no like yeah you need like I'm not trying to be egotistical but it's just like No, absolutely. There's a there's a certain like resume.
Advocacy and Misunderstandings about Palestine
00:52:41
Speaker
There's a certain experience that it's like when you stand up for yourself, genuinely, like to be Palestinian and be a Palestinian advocate before October 7th means something.
00:52:52
Speaker
Right. like You were doing shit when like no one gave a fuck and the people who did give a fuck were viciously like coming for you. Right. Right. Like I had an anti-Semitic scandal before October 7th, not even being anti-Semitic. Like, you know what I mean? yeah Like I, and I wear that with a ah a badge of honor. I'm not going to be like humble about it ups because I like, it I'm not going to say I told you so. I'm going to be like, I have continually,
00:53:17
Speaker
Like many other people, I'm not the only person in the world who's like this, but a large minority of us have been continually rightfully guessing all the shit and all the evil in this world. And I feel like rather than like be humble about it, we need to be like, no, like we have the answer. um And it's so a funny because we were gaslit, at least I was, into thinking that this special talent that we have is actually the opposite, where it was like...
00:53:43
Speaker
Thank you, straight people, for still allowing me to be included in your space, even though I'm different. And then now I'm realizing, actually, no, we are in the utopian. Like, our our our brains are lit.
00:53:59
Speaker
And it's like you being in our lives is a privilege to you. I fully feel that. My presence is always presence. Yeah.
00:54:09
Speaker
And I'm not sorry about it. Me neither. Anyway, um yeah, there was this crazy olive who is a listener in occupied Palestine was in occupied Palestine.
00:54:23
Speaker
And I was like, girl, why do you listen to this podcast? Like what? Like what? well world What was their take? What they say? and just more of like uh okay some some progressive zionists are like i want liberation but like i want you to see my trauma too and it's like girl fuck your trauma and it's like like like they talked about their grandfather like dying on october 7th whether that's true or not true and i was like first of all i don't give a fuck
00:54:54
Speaker
That's none of my business, not my problem. There's a number of things that could have happened differently that were well within your grandfather's control to make that outcome differently. Number one.
00:55:05
Speaker
Number two, that's Israel's fault. Name the apparatus of Israel. Like, right don't, especially from a, I literally said to this person, was like, what? Like, you want, you you you took everything away from Palestinians and you want sympathy?
00:55:20
Speaker
Right, right. Like literally go jump off a cliff. And this was a Palestinian living in occupied Palestine. No. Oh, this was the... Maybe Jewish, maybe not Jewish. Just like a white person. But they don't live there anymore. And they're like pro-liberation, but they're just kind of like bleeding heart for both side for all sides.
00:55:43
Speaker
I see. You know what I mean? like I think they genuinely have good intentions. like There are some rotten people and there's some people with like actually decent intentions. It's just like you're just misinformed and stupid and haven't shaken off Your own yeah propaganda. Yeah, your own involvement in the system of oppression.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yeah. um
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Is it fair to expect every queer person to come out? Why or why not? No, you don't have to come out. I think coming out is stupid anyway. I think you should just...
00:56:21
Speaker
do whatever you need to do in the moment. yeah I think there's a concept, like, not to be cheesy as fuck, but, like, coming in instead of coming out, where you're, like, coming into yourself. You know, like, you have to embody yourself, find God within yourself, like, learn, how like, a Sufi mentality, where you're fully just, like, find inner peace. I know we've harped on this before, but, like,
00:56:50
Speaker
The idea that you have to come out to be happy is ridiculous because that's yet another template that someone else is telling you you have to follow. You know what I mean? like Very well put.
00:57:01
Speaker
Whenever someone's like, you need to do this to be happy, maybe they needed to do that, but that doesn't mean you have to. like I think the idea of coming out, like coming to the States and thinking, oh, if I want to be happy, I have to be like all the other gay people.
00:57:15
Speaker
That's absolutely not true. and And that's the thing, like, never, like like, believe that you could be the first one. yeah Like, not that you will be, yeah but the thing is, I never listen to anybody who's like, oh, like, it's unusual that someone does this or whatever.
00:57:31
Speaker
Like, especially the fact that if you're already in a minority, if you're already in such a statistical improbability of, like, lottery of birth, why not be like, make like, don't hinge your entire life on the fact that you could win the lottery. Yeah.
00:57:45
Speaker
But or like other things, you know what i mean? Like, and there's a small chance you'll get into some program that you want to get into. There's a small chance you'll get the visa that you want to get the apartment, whatever. But like, you can still be like, why not me?
00:57:59
Speaker
Yeah. Like, you can have that delusion. Yeah. And I think the key is, it's like, you don't have to come out, but you should always... strive for the confidence like you were saying very well put to come into yourself yeah like always strive for that always fight for yourself and that's a tough one for anyone to give you genuine advice on because
Personal Journeys of Coming Out
00:58:20
Speaker
like like we talked about at the start of this podcast like we are two queer Palestinians but we're two individuals Like we are queer Palestinians in our very specific own way. And because there's, you know, so many hundreds of thousands of us around, there's that many different ways to be that title and vice versa with anything that you're doing. Right. Like Khalil and I's story very different.
00:58:42
Speaker
Like... So the fact that within our own communities, is it's like so different. Yeah. Truly, there's no one way. And anyway, I think anything mainstream is kind of lame.
00:58:53
Speaker
And if it's mainstream now, especially in like liberal spaces to be like out and proud, then kind of avoid doing that.
00:59:02
Speaker
ah Okay. Last question. What would a truly non-Western version of coming out look like? Oh, that's going to need... Spiritually, in community, politically... I have an answer.
00:59:19
Speaker
um I think my like utopian like idea of what a queer society would be is one where there would never be a coming out. like There would just... No one would ask like, oh my God, you like boys? Yay.
00:59:35
Speaker
Like, no, there just wouldn't be that because who cares if you want to marry the opposite gender or not even like marry, be with whatever the opposite gender or the same gender. It just is what it is.
00:59:47
Speaker
Like there isn't a, like a divergence of, oh, okay, you're choosing this path. No, it's all just like, whatever, you know, like that would be ideal, but I don't know how or when that would happen.
01:00:00
Speaker
I think like because there's always a building towards confidence and the need for labels and the need to make ourselves different and create groups. like i i I think that's just like an inherent part of existence. like I exist, so you exist, and like vice versa. like We can never all be one because the nature of existence would just...
01:00:22
Speaker
change Not to get too meta on the olive people. But I would envision a more... I think, again, this is the thing. I think, not not that life is a movie, but, like, I feel like there is a growing evil.
01:00:37
Speaker
And over the years, this growing evil has slowly been trying to stamp out everything that's good in the world. From, like, Turtle Island to, like, destroying all these, like, beautiful cultures and languages where they, like...
01:00:51
Speaker
val i'm like I'm just vying for like queer people to be worshipped as prophets. I think we need to get back into spirituality. like Go find your local trans person and ask them about God.
01:01:03
Speaker
Yeah. You know, go find a lirian fire lesbian and go build a cabin with them in the forest. Yeah, yeah. No, but it's like for so like I think it would genuinely work if we like got religious again, but then made it inclusive.
01:01:20
Speaker
yeah as then made the Instead of you know making the different people evil, make them divine. yeah I feel like we would all have such a party because it's like... all the fucked up adhd neurodivergent queer poly blue-haired weirdos whatever ever the one that the ones that like in society like mainstream we make fun of when you get to know those people they are the kindest most intelligent most like there is such like a
01:01:52
Speaker
It is a holiness to behold when you get to know people like that. like yeah ah You would be like, wow, I wish that if everyone was on board with this and there was some kind of culture that upholded and uplifted this and you were selected as leader, like I wish that
Reflections on Podcast Journey and Growth
01:02:08
Speaker
could happen. yeah And that could actually happen because you just have to fucking trick people.
01:02:11
Speaker
Right. It's just about radical acceptance and realizing... And a culture and religious shit. Yes. And realizing that difference should be celebrated and not ostracized.
01:02:23
Speaker
I mean, it used to be... Worship. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not even saying celebrate it. I'm saying worship it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're onto something that you're not you know, like, you know what mean? And that's I that's, I think, kind of the understanding of of indigenous people and how they saw it is like, whoa, this person's able to embody two things at once. You're the avatar.
01:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. That's very true. So that would be my non-Western coming out world. would be And you know what? like While we're on summer break, olives, let's work on this.
01:03:01
Speaker
yeah Think about it. but the narrative on ah By the time we come back, that world better be a reality or you're failing your test. Failing your test.
01:03:14
Speaker
Period. Yeah, this has been a very fun experience the past couple of months. And we're excited to have taken this journey with you all. And honestly, we're impressed by how big the community was. Like, I don't think I expected a lot of people to watch, but a ton of you are. So it's pretty cool.
01:03:33
Speaker
I had all the confidence that I would get some shit to go a little viral. If you look at our socials, they're not doing too shabby. Yeah. um And neither are the streams. So thank you for showing out. I'm so, it's so cute to receive little messages about how,
01:03:52
Speaker
This podcast makes people feel, whether it's good, whether it's bad. I've also, i feel like me personally, I've grown in making this podcast.
01:04:02
Speaker
Like, coming into it, I really felt...
01:04:08
Speaker
more i get it's like a developing of confidence i developed confidence yeah essentially and to put it to put everything i was going to say into one word i developed a lot of confidence because of this podcast so thank you play thank you guys and on that note have a wonderful week month year enjoy your summer you'll see us hopefully in september ish you'll see us when you see us i Well, I'm aiming for September. Hashtag Ali, don't be lazy. you know, not to not to be too much, but all you have to do is come sit down for an hour. That's true. That's literally all I have to do. I literally do nothing else.
01:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I can't complain.
01:04:52
Speaker
See you guys. Bye.