Transcript
Alexis : Brought me so much joy the other day when um I wasn't thinking and somebody came to the door, of a friend of mine.
Alexis : And ah so I just like stepped out on the porch and I said, oh, I got to go grab something out of the barn. You want to come with me? she said, yeah. So we walk out to the barn and I was halfway there before I realized I don't have shoes on and my feet aren't cold.
Alexis : And how nice was that? Because the grass was touching my feet. And I wasn't even, I was like, oh, um just so it's so pleasant outside. And I wasn't, and I just...
Plant People: You're like a plant. You're hardened off your feet. Maybe your feet are just hardened off, Alexis. Maybe they are. Is that it? Or just, it's just pleasant outside.
Alexis : No, it was just it was just one of those beautiful spring days and I got to touch grass and I was just didn't even have to think about the fact that I need to put shoes or socks on. And it was such a lovely, lovely minute that I just had to share it.
Plant People: There'll be snow again soon.
Brett: I will say earlier, earlier in my life, I would, I would be in situate, travel places and stuff and meet people and I would tell them from Kentucky.
Plant People: I mean, don't worry, Alexis. I mean.
Brett: And one of the stereotypes for Kentucky, of course, is that we don't wear shoes and that, or, you know, don't have teeth or whatever, any number of things.
Alexis : Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: And I do have all, all of my teeth plus a couple of my wisdom teeth even. um
Alexis : Yep.
Brett: But I did not, I did nothing to break that stereotype, particularly when I was younger.
Plant People: Extra.
Alexis : Same.
Brett: i
Plant People: I didn't wear shoes in the summer.
Brett: used to not wear shoes at all.
Alexis : I never wear shoes.
Brett: um
Plant People: I hated shoes growing up. I hated them.
Brett: And now, i mean, now I feel like my, my feet are like more sensitive or something. Like if I'm walking on grass, it's cool, but there was a time where I just feel like I didn't put shoes on for months.
Alexis : There was like a pride if I could walk across gravel without shoes on. I was like, that was, that was, there was such pride for me in that. And mine, yeah, maybe I'm more sensitive, but I think I just wear shoes more with farming.
Plant People: Now, peak gravel is different than gravel
Alexis : Like you just, you you gotta to wear, you can't tell, you shouldn't tell barefoot everybody.
Plant People: I know.
Alexis : So. Yeah.
Plant People: Not tilting an old glass patch or nail, rusty nails.
Brett: Coward. Coward.
Alexis : you
Plant People: I mean, tetanus is a thing. Yeah. I used to have nothing used to be.
Alexis : Step on a bee one too many times, you know.
Plant People: Have a little reaction. Don't have your EpiPen. Just whatever.
Alexis : Yep.
Brett: Now feel free to step on a yellow legged hornet.
Plant People: These are things you think about.
Brett: It may hurt though.
Alexis : Well, yeah, I was gonna say, according to our apiarist, they have pretty intense sting, so I might not be doing that.
Brett: If you have not listened to our previous episode with Amanda Skidmore, go back and do that. It's a, it's really interesting and emergent thing, but to, from my perspective to quote Patrick Swayze, pain don't hurt.
Plant People: Pain don't hurt. is that a roadhouse quote? I can't remember, Brett.
Alexis : Um, yes.
Brett: That's from Roadhouse.
Plant People: I'm sorry.
Alexis : Um, hi. It hurts me.
Plant People: Okay.
Alexis : So yes.
Plant People: I'm impressed.
Alexis : Hi. Hello. You know what else hurts me?
Brett: It's hardcore.
Alexis : know what else hurts me? When my, um, cuttings die.
Brett: What?
Plant People: Hmm.
Brett: Hmm.
Alexis : That's hurtful.
Plant People: Is that like the song when the doves die except with cuttings when the cuttings die?
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: I could imagine I would feel that way if i didn't have a 100% success rate.
Plant People: Yeah. See, Brett knows no failure.
Alexis : Wow. Okay.
Plant People: no He does not know the pain of failure.
Alexis : So maybe, you know, in the horticulture world, usually we meet, we, we think that means you don't start enough. So I don't, it's not the compliment you think.
Plant People: Oh, oh.
Brett: i could see how weaker I could see how weaker women and men might think that about me, but
Alexis : but
Plant People: Yeah. Maybe you just need to try weirder things. to Step out of the hydrangea.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: no, no, I don't.
Alexis : Maybe you're just not. Okay.
Brett: That's a joke. I have a very low success rate.
Plant People: No, now if you get rid of all the dead ones, Brett, and only keep the living, that's 100% of what you have in front of you.
Brett: Let me be clear. be clear
Brett: Of the ones that survive, 100% of them survive.
Plant People: That's an economist. it just that Yes, it just depends on your sample group.
Alexis : Of the ones that are actually rude.
Plant People: Let's get specific here. Yeah.
Brett: Yeah, it's not my fault that they didn't have it in them.
Plant People: Yeah, absolutely.
Brett: They didn't have that dog in them.
Plant People: Yeah, they're quitters.
Alexis : I have to say, ah taking cuttings, I love starting seeds, but taking cuttings of any kind is probably one of my favorite things to do.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: It's a different thing taking cuttings because it's, you give plants, you know, immortality with cuttings.
Alexis : and
Plant People: I mean, because you're taking a clone and just making Yes.
Alexis : Ray's like, you get to play God.
Plant People: yes and You, what is it? Dolly the sheep several years ago, you know, when we first started talking about genetics and the accessibility of, you know, cloning things.
Brett: several decades ago.
Alexis : Cloning.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, was going to I was a child.
Plant People: Yeah. Several, a long time ago. And now you can, you know, get that kit on eBay. You can purchase it cheap. I'm not ah advocating for that. But, ah yeah, you can you can you can ah take plants.
Plant People: And that's one thing I love about it, Alexis. That's different than seeds, right? Seeds are like a genetic cross of parentage, but not cuttings.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: That's so good that's always been so cool to me.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah, it's such a cool thing.
Alexis : And it's just, yeah, it's more, i mean, some cuttings take a long time. We'll kind of talk about the different ones here in a second. But for a lot of cuttings, I think there's a a little bit more...
Alexis : from a relative speaking in the plant world, almost like instant satisfaction, right? Because you get this kind of, like you're taking it from, you know, an adult plant and it's already got like leaves on it.
Alexis : And, you know, you're forcing the roots versus with the seed, you're getting the root first, you're eating this underground part you can't see, and then you're going to get this.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So it's just it's just a different vibe. um And I love it. I take a lot of cuttings in the springtime, of mostly herbaceous stuff, just really, you know, like fleshy, succulent things, not necessarily woody items.
Alexis : um But I just, I love it so much. And I check on them probably too much. I'm a little bit of a helicopter mom. I'm like, how you doing? Do you get any roots today? What about now?
Alexis : What about now? What about now?
Plant People: Are you like giving them a little tug test every week and you're like, it slips up and you're like, oh no.
Alexis : Yes. It's like twice a day and I'm making it worse.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. i See if they're anchored. Yeah.
Alexis : But
Plant People: Yeah. I was always the one I'd pull it up, it'd slip up i like, dang it. Put it back in and give it five more days.
Alexis : Yep. Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Once you learn that that doesn't really bother them any, you'll do it all the time.
Plant People: I never had enough patience.
Plant People: No, it's fine.
Alexis : So. Mm hmm.
Brett: So I'm a little newer to the cutting game than you two are. um So as i as I understand it, there are different kinds of cuttings that are taken from different types of plants at different times of year And so our our thought is I think we're going to do a series of episodes on different pre propagation types so we can focus on on specific ones.
Brett: So at a high level, what are those types of cuttings that we're talking about? And and you you mentioned herbaceous, and I think of herbaceous as stuff that like –
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brett: dies back to the ground every year as opposed to having a woody structure that it grows from again, in case anybody's not familiar with that. So, so can you, can you orient me and teach me to how be, how to be like you guys?
Alexis : Yeah, there's, I mean, there's technically a lot, but I think the big, like the big three to think about is, yeah, your herbaceous or um cuttings, like you said, they they die back to the ground, or these are the ones that your stems stay green, right?
Plant People: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And they stay easy to cut with snips. You don't need pruners necessarily. These are easy to easy to cut. You've got semi-hardwood or softwood cuttings, and then you've got hardwood cuttings, and those are exactly what they sound like.
Alexis : So thinking about some of our shrubs where they're, you know, technically woody, like the stems will be brown, but you can bend them pretty easy, if that makes sense.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So, Wajalia are an example of that one, Ninebark, things like that, where they have kind of these flexible, but woody brown stems. And then you've got hardwoods, which are going to be more along the lines of your trees and these, you know, woody stems that are not super flexible.
Plant People: Low energy kind of stuff. Because they're dormant, aren't they?
Alexis : And sometimes, yeah, and like you can get softwood cuttings off of trees. um So that's like kind of the hard part. I don't want to like categorize you too much you get it in your brain.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : um It's more about the type of wood that you are taking in the time of year you're taking it.
Plant People: And hardwood, yeah, it's like winter.
Alexis : But those are the big ones.
Brett: So its the so can you take can you take softwood and hardwood cuttings from the same plant?
Alexis : i mean,
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Like a same type of, like it just depends on...
Plant People: Yep.
Alexis : yeah, if the plant produces hardwood, yes, um you can.
Plant People: Yep.
Brett: Right, okay. So it's not like that all hardwood coming cuttings come from hardwood plants.
Alexis : Or the trees. Yeah, no.
Brett: It's it's that that you can do different... Okay, well, that's that's a helpful orientation, right?
Plant People: It seems like I had a botany professional.
Alexis : Right.
Plant People: They said, well, the only difference is timing when you do it and the age of the wood, you know.
Alexis : Yep.
Plant People: whether it's first year growth or older growth.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: and and he always called, and it was interesting, Alexis, you might be able to shed some more light on this. He called hardwood cuttings, low energy cuttings, and then,
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Softwood was high energy cuttings and it talked a lot about that and the importance of that where hardwood is more of a dormant process, hardwood cuttings and softwood, which we're talking mostly about today is more of a high energy.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And I didn't appreciate that enough until I failed lots with, because I mean, that's, that's one of the things that's a great thing about softwood cuttings, but it's also one of the challenges we can talk about is they're, they've already broken dormancy.
Plant People: They're growing. So you have to manage them in a certain way.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: So when you say and you saying high energy and low energy, you're you're referring to like sort of the amount of energy and movement and of the plant.
Plant People: The metabolism within the plant and the stage of growth that that plants at that time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah, because it's like, i think about like the the cycle of the year and, you know, you when you have a this initial push of all this greenery and flowers and everything else in springtime and then that humming green, everything's flowing, everything's happening in the middle of summer and then he starts to slow down and it goes into dormancy and they look dead.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah, the fun times.
Brett: Obviously, they're not dead. They're just really so like cryogenically frozen. you know, they're in like a really slow rate of metabolic activity.
Plant People: Taking a little nap.
Brett: And so so that's what you're saying is that
Plant People: Yeah. Yes.
Brett: you're taking them at a higher energy time of year when stuff's humming along.
Plant People: Yeah. They're moving and growing and and doing things and and you got to account for that because another big difference is one has a presence of leaves and one doesn't. That's another difference. I mean, but that plays into the high energy.
Plant People: If it has leaves on it and all of a sudden you separate it from the parent plant, you have to treat it a certain way and manage it a certain way or it's not going to be successful ah because leaves give off, you know, I guess.
Brett: And so with which one of these are we talking about today?
Alexis : yeah they're
Plant People: motion
Alexis : softwood softwood cuttings because it's time of year you can start thinking about doing that mm-hmm
Plant People: Good.
Brett: Softwood.
Plant People: We won't confuse the conversation. Yeah. Yeah.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: So we're in we're going to, you know, late March, people are hearing this in late March into April, May, June.
Alexis : <unk>t it
Plant People: gosh
Plant People: I'd say May, what, the first two weeks in May is like prime time for a lot of this stuff, depending on the year. Like beginning of May, the first to second week is like go time.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: But you started to say, make some good comments, Alexis, about how do you tell like when, you know, softwood is at just the right stage. And I heard you talk about the snap test or whatever.
Plant People: Didn't you mention that as far as calming?
Alexis : Yeah, and and there's also to play in whether or not it blooms in the spring. So, and you do have a bigger window with softwood cuttings because basically you just want those green leaves to be out and still, you know, not um this super hard wood.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : You want like ah a very flexible um new growth.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So this growth is going to be, you know, kind of like this year's growth. You want full leaves out. And if it's something like, for example, I was just looking in preparation for this episode of some softwood cuttings I took of flowering almond and wigelia last year.
Alexis : And, you know, I put my dates on there so that remember and I was proud of myself for doing that. but I didn't take those till the beginning of June and that's because they flower in the spring.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : And so you're going to take those after flowering is ideal.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : You can take them before flowering if they have enough leaves on them, which often if they're a spring bloomer, they're not going have a ton of leaves on them yet.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : um But you have to like rub off those flowers.
Plant People: Yeah, if you see that big terminal swollen butt, it's like you got to get rid of that.
Alexis : You don't want. the
Plant People: And I never was really good at paying attention to that.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: and That's something to watch out for, yeah.
Alexis : yeah and So taking them after bloom is great if it's a spring bloomer. If it doesn't bloom till later in the summer, you know, some some of our hydrangeas species and stuff like that are later bloomers, fall bloomers.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : You can still you can take those softwood cuttings in the spring.
Plant People: That kind of explains for me, I never thought about it, but I mean, the the window for me is like the first part of May all the way through July, but based on what you just said, that kind of makes sense because some of them you can do in June and July and it's still not differentiated into like that lignus hardwood, like that real, ah you know, it's not gotten we're real woody.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: So that kind of makes sense. I never thought about it in those terms, but yeah, the window for some plants is really broad, like, you know, May, June and July.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah. hardware Hardwood is a little bit ah different and we'll talk about that closer to the time when you'll take hardwood cuttings where, you know, acting like we're we're timing these perfectly, right?
Alexis : so we'll talk about those later if you're interested.
Plant People: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Brett: We are.
Alexis : But yeah, so softwood cuttings, her those herbaceous ones, first let's get those out of the way. but her Those herbaceous ones where you're going to take where those that stem stays green, That plant, you know, maybe dies down to the ground.
Alexis : If it's an annual, you know, you can take cuttings of it over and over. It just stays green and flexible. Those you can take at any point in the year. The caveat is if you take it when there is low light levels, you are going to need to supplement light or you won't get good rooting happening.
Alexis : So you'll have a lot of death. There's just, you know, it's most predominantly light, but it's lot of death, lot death.
Brett: lot of death.
Plant People: A lot of death. Brad is unaccustomed with failure in that area.
Alexis : Um, we're just We're just horticulturists. We talk a lot about death, actually.
Plant People: We do.
Alexis : um So you can take those any time of the year.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : But I tend to, if I have the flexibility, um I tend to wait until ah after the first of the year to do that because we get that light.
Alexis : It's returning right after winter solstice. The beginning of February is kind of ideal. You hit the you get rid of the Persephone period is what they call that. And we start to really get those long days.
Alexis : And you will find that the rooting is, you know, twice, if not more, faster during that period of time. And so though those later taken cuttings will catch up to the ones you did earlier during low light.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Now you can supplement those with light if you want to do your tropical houseplants because, you know, they're too big or you want a bunch more that you can give away. hey You can do those inside under lights. But i would I would encourage you to wait and do them because you'll you'll have more luck and those plants will catch up.
Alexis : So getting those kind of, yeah, go ahead.
Brett: So, so on the, on the herbaceous stuff, so you're saying that you're going to do this in February.
Alexis : okay
Brett: Well, nothing's growing out of the ground for me yet in February. So is this is like that you have a, a mother plant in the greenhouse and you're taking cuttings off of it and rooting those not, not like taking cuttings from a baptisia that's coming up out of the ground or something.
Alexis : Mother plants. Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, like we're talking about like greenhouse type stuff, it sounds like, yeah.
Alexis : Yes. Yeah. Thank you.
Alexis : Right, right, right, right.
Brett: Okay.
Alexis : Yep, yep.
Brett: Okay, cool.
Alexis : up so um
Brett: Perfect.
Alexis : So yeah, mother plants, house plants, anything that's green and foliage. And then you can take those, you know, when your stuff does come up, if you want to take cuttings of that, you know, you can take that pretty much any time during the year.
Brett: yeah
Alexis : ah So as long as you've got high light levels, you can take those.
Brett: Side note, the mother plant thing is so cool.
Alexis : So yeah.
Brett: It's such a, I didn't ever know about it until somewhat recently that, you know, you have this, this plant that has the characteristics that you really love and want. It could be the foliage color or size or what it's big deal in bonsai because you want things that have smaller foliage patterns.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: And so if you get one back to Ray's point, you're literally copy pasting it.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: You're cloning this thing that will have the same genetic characteristics.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: And so you'll have these plants, which is, I just find really culturally cool that you have this plant, that you keep for years and years and years that you're cutting stuff off of. It starts looking weird because it's, you know, getting snipped here and there, but it's like got all this very cool natural energy of it's produced all of these clones across this whole period of time.
Alexis : yeah
Brett: It's, it's some pretty cool stuff. Um, so anyway, so you got a mother plant, you're doing that for the herbaceous stuff.
Alexis : I love it. Yep.
Brett: Uh, softwoods are around the corner.
Alexis : Yep.
Alexis : Yes.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So herbaceous, relatively simple, straightforward.
Plant People: Coming on.
Alexis : And I would say herbaceous and softwood, like when we talk... about the the actual, like the physical of the cutting or the type of cutting we take and the treatment, you know, to get it to root, they're going to be pretty similar. um For the most part, you might use a stronger hormone to induce rooting, but it's going to be, it's going to be the same.
Alexis : So if you can do one, you can definitely do the other. You just got to have to...
Brett: You'd use a stronger stronger hormone for which one?
Alexis : for the, um you could possibly need a stronger hormone for the softwood cuttings because it's just, you know, a heavier duty plant cutting.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : um
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : So you're trying to trying to force it. And then there's a ah whole nother harder set for those hardwood cuttings because, you know, you've got this really strong wood and you're taking it while it's dormant.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So there's just some other things to play there.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So that one is definitely the more difficult of the three big categories. So,
Brett: all right, that's enough of my dumb guy questions. So...
Alexis : No, those are those are good. Sometimes I forget like I'm so used to doing them and they make me so happy and I get excited that I leave those steps out because those are um inherent. I worked in a greenhouse in undergrad and I they spent hours and weeks of my life just taking cuttings.
Alexis : So it's just kind of like lodged in my brain. Sometimes it's muscle memories.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: That's something I hadn't done as much as what you're talking like more of the winter top cuttings on the herbaceous plants. I hadn't done as much as that.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Most of mine have been like woody stuff. I hadn't really thought about in those terms either, but yeah, I hadn't done for whatever reason.
Alexis : I do a senedranium is a big one.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : And then you can actually take dahlia cuttings as well. And so they're a different idea of how, when you think about cutting, you usually think about, you know, you're cutting off a branch, you're cutting through a stem.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : um These are technically cuttings, but you're kind of cutting it off the tubers itself. So you're cutting it directly from the growing point.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : um And
Plant People: Because a good start. Yeah, I bet.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: I
Alexis : And you get just more more clones that way. So um that's always that's always nice when you need ah need a certain color like or a bonsai, you need characteristics. So you can do with your tomatoes too.
Alexis : you know You can take cuttings of your tomatoes and root those out. So if you've got a really great tomato until you get to the seed point, you can do that as well. So that's an option for you.
Alexis : But so back to taking a cutting, the actual process.
Brett: softwood softwood taking and herbaceous taking cutting
Alexis : Right, so the actual act of cutting through the stem.
Plant People: Tameen is everything.
Alexis : So um there is ah the the best way to do it.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : And I will say that some, if you've ever taken cuttings, there'll be people go, well I don't do that. And it works. Well, there are easier things, like some things just root better than others with cuttings. But if you want to always have the best chance of root, the best thing you can do is cut right under the node.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And so you are you will be applying the hormone and burying that node underground.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And the reason that is important, so as a reminder, the node is where your leaves or a branch will come out. It's usually kind of a swollen-ish area. it kind of has this obvious line for and a lot of plants that are visible, but where the leaves emerge.
Plant People: That's sort of the really, one of the coolest things about plants there too, is that the cells are undifferentiated.
Alexis : So it's...
Plant People: Like they can, you know, that one stem cell, it could, or that one cell, I should say, it could become a stem or a root.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Yep.
Plant People: So with that active growing point, meristematic area,
Alexis : Right.
Plant People: the sales can become, and that's always kind of blown my mind.
Alexis : Right.
Plant People: And if you can get that one concept in horticulture botany down, you can play with that in so many cool ways.
Alexis : Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: And it's, it's such a, such a neat area of a plant. And I, sort it's a neat function of a plant, a feature of a plant.
Alexis : Yeah, so that node is where where more um of those undifferentiated cells are located.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So there are them throughout the plant because that's how it wards itself for disease and you know damage and stuff. But the most amount of them are found in the node, which is why we want the node because we want the most cells that can just do whatever they want, right?
Plant People: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : we're go to And we're going to tell them what to do by applying a hormone that is specific to rooting.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And so we encourage those cells to become root cells rather than a leaf or a branch. So that that is the number one way to have success is by making a cutting number one at the proper time, which we've talked about, and at the proper place, which is right beneath the the node. I would advise from on the plant you're taking it from, so your mother plant of sorts that you then... um cut that little inner stem area you left, cut that back to the the note the next node on the plant, if that makes sense, just because that will encourage it to to grow and you're not leaving this little stub that's going to die back anyways, you know, maybe have some other problems.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So I try and do that.
Brett: So just in case anybody's kind of new to the plant physiology and you're having trouble imagining this, if you go out and look at a tree, like a tree branch, you will see there's a long section.
Alexis : Perfect.
Brett: There are often long sections where there's nothing going on. It's just literally like what we would call a stick. And and and and then there's areas where leaves come out or flower buds come out. And that's the node.
Brett: And so if you were going to take a cutting, you would not want to just cut it in the middle of that stick and stick the stick end in there.
Plant People: Off
Brett: You would want to get the cut up closer to that note to that node point. And you can go out and look at this in the backyard or wherever. Just go ahead and look in that. This is again, in bonsai, we talk about inter node length.
Brett: We're trying to shrink that and make that smaller, but that inter node space, there's very little chance that there's going to be roots coming out of that.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: And actually what what I do sometimes is a bit of a maverick here, Alexis, if I go off script is I'll actually add i'll cut it close to the the node on the mother plant.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Off script.
Brett: and then trim the stick off the cutting. So I don't know if you've ever heard of that that approach.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah, you can do that too.
Plant People: do you ever in bond in bonsai do you ever leave a little stick you leave a little tail on there i bet you sometimes don't you brett and scarify that like you scratch it down that little green layer do you ever do that like an inch or so i've
Alexis : Yeah, you can either way.
Brett: No, I'm just
Alexis : We just don't want the stick.
Brett: It's a stupid distinction, yeah.
Brett: Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes you'll do that. That was that would be not be recommended for literally anything else besides weirdos who play with little plants.
Plant People: i've seen i heard people talk about that and what you're saying and i thought that was interesting to me they left a little tail
Brett: Yeah, creating dead wood, creating ah area that's dead and is not it looks...
Plant People: And they would get some root differentiation, minor amount there, but I didn't. I was like, oh, there's that must be something specific to them.
Brett: Well, cause if that the idea is in nature, if a branch snaps off, sometimes it snaps off in the middle of the stick and it has to die back.
Plant People: o
Brett: We want to prevent that if we're, you know, as horticulturalists, hold horticulturists, cause it gives the plant easier time of healing and of budding out from that site, et cetera.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Brett: So, so don't cut the stick, cut it at the node. Okay. I'm with you so far.
Alexis : Right. Right. Okay. So then if that node that you plan to put underground and make, here's the one of the important things on semi, ah um the semi-hardwood or the, sorry, softwood, those are interchangeable. Softwood makes more sense to me. On the softwood ones, you won't have this problem because you already have leaves on this plant, but this is very important in other and hardwoods and things like that.
Alexis : make sure you're putting it cut side down into the soil. Don't flip it around. Plants do know which which way is up. I mean, they grow towards the sun, right?
Alexis : They do know and they do have, I forget what the word is called off top of my head, but geotropic maybe or something along those lines. They know.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And if you bury the wrong end, it will not do anything. So make sure that you're putting your cut side down.
Plant People: It is. Yeah.
Alexis : And again, this can be... more difficult when you're doing things without leaves. It's harder to tell. But anyways, or it is, well, because if you've got a really long stem, so say you go out and you're cutting a big one, you're going to take five node cuttings off of this big long stem, you know, but technically for some of them, both of your ends are cut, right?
Brett: it That sounds ridiculous, but it is very easy to do. It is very easy to do.
Plant People: Yeah. yeah
Alexis : So like, you got to make sure that you're paying attention to which side.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : And yes, it is very easy to do. Ask Brett and I how I know that we know. Um,
Plant People: and ah And when taking that new wood, I sometimes get the question, well, how do you know? How do you know? And I do use that snap test and it's served me pretty well for most of most things.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: It's if I go out and you know I'm trying to time because as Alexis said earlier, gosh, it's from and Brett, we're talking about May to July. Well, how do you know within that time period when the perfect time is?
Plant People: I would go out and if it's super flexible, super succulent, I don't necessarily want that. You don't want that super high water content because um I've been told that you know and explained technically that that doesn't have a lot of energy in that.
Plant People: It's so succulent.
Alexis : move
Plant People: It's mainly water. As soon as you cut it, it's going to wilt. You're going to have failure. On the flip side of that, if you wait too long, it's going to be more lignous. The cells are already going to be differentiated. They're already going to be what they're going to be.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: The plant sort of locks into what it's going to be. So somewhere in between, you need to identify that period. And that is when roughly on most plants that we're talking about for softwood cuttings,
Plant People: ah you would bend that and if it snaps cleanly, that's perfect time. And that's i've held pretty true. If I bend it and it just keeps bending like a rubber band, it's not time. It's too soon. But if I try to bend and it doesn't break or it has a lot of resistance, I'm too late.
Plant People: But if you bend it and it snaps cleanly, perfect time. Now, I don't know. There's probably exceptions to that, but that's always worked really well for me is the bend and snap test.
Alexis : Yeah. I mean, just think about the name that you're going with, right? It's called soft wood, which means you don't want it too green because that's not wood, right It doesn't look like wood, but yout you don't want it to be hard.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: And I tread out that.
Alexis : It's called soft wood. And so that means it's flex.
Plant People: And I was guilty in the past.
Brett: Think Mama Bear. This is Mama Bear.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: I've done it too soon in the past.
Brett: Just right.
Plant People: i was like, oh, if it's really soft, it's going to be better.
Alexis : Yes, exactly.
Plant People: And it wasn't. and I didn't, I was like, and I had to go back and look and be like, oh, I was probably too soon on some of those things, Alexa.
Alexis : Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: I made that mistake quite a bit.
Alexis : You want, yeah, you want juvenile growth, which is, means this year's growth, but you want the leaves to be fully formed.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So that's how you can know not to go too early. You want those leaves fully unfurled, you know, they, they are not super soft. um So you want that. And then yeah,
Alexis : more the And the easiest way is to do those is from tip cutting. So that means that literally just the very tip of the plant, it's hard to go wrong. You may have to, you know, create go down the stem a little bit, but when you go too far down the stem, you get that older growth.
Alexis : So that taking a tip cutting, can you can really hedge your bets that way.
Plant People: And I've always read if you're having trouble, do in the mornings also, because that's the time where the turd your pressure or water, the water content of the plants at its highest.
Alexis : Yep, it's highest.
Plant People: I mean, is there something to that?
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: i mean, that's bound to, you know, I've not paid lot of attention to that.
Alexis : i
Brett: I tend to...
Alexis : Yeah, we I mean, we take in the floral world and like when we talk about woody shrubs, like cutting them for cut flower production, predominantly we tell people to cut them in the morning because of that turgid pressure.
Alexis : the The blooms are at the most hydration at that time.
Plant People: oh yeah.
Alexis : So there's, ah I mean, it's also cool and all these other things, but one of the big ones is the water content.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Well, I, I tend to think, you know, we're throwing a lot of variables at you. And the reason why because there are some different things that you can optimize, but I also think plants want to propagate, you know, they, they, they, this is the reason, I mean, like any of you, if you think about why these plants might do this in some of the, in some cases it's because the plant might fall over and then it's node is in the contact with the ground and then it can root out from there and become a plant that's in a better situation than it would have been when it flipped over.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Want to live. Yeah. Okay.
Brett: Like, That's what happens with brambles too. You'll have this where it goes out.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: And so like, I think that you can shoot for best circumstances, but there is a window of time. There's some, you know, plants can be forgiving.
Alexis : Yes.
Brett: They can also be punishing, but they can also be forgiving with some of this stuff, especially like I think, and I would echo what you said, Alexis, like my take rates are way higher the closer I am to the tip that I take them from.
Plant People: Both, yeah.
Brett: don't know there's an apical thing. don't know if it's just the freshest, Precious whatever available, but I do would agree with that. I've i've had higher success from stuff when I've focused on just taking.
Plant People: I know the auxins are traveling towards that terminal end, so that makes sense.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: I mean, the natural hormones are highest towards that terminal end, so it makes sense.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : yep Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : And it's that it's that more juvenile growth, which is ideal.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So, OK, so you go out and yes, there to Brett's point, our job is to tell you the perfect situation so that when you can flex those, however, that makes sense from a timing standpoint or a you know, whatever, but like if if we tell you the perfect circumstance and you can flex it a little bit.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So we go out, we take our cutting, we take our cutting and we've got just our node um there. And then we're gonna make sure we strip any leaves or extra foliage that we are going to put below the soil surface is the number one thing.
Alexis : And really we don't want a ton of leaves because remember this cutting has no roots. And so roots are what take water up to give to the leaves. So we don't want a lot of leaves putting a lot of pressure on that stem to need water.
Alexis : to and them respiring and do these, all these things, but we need enough leaves that it's going to photosynthesize. So it's a, it's a kind of a delicate balance there. I, in general, like ah as a rule of thumb, try to leave no more than about two leaves.
Alexis : And if they're really, really large leaves, like, you know, say they're the size of my palm, um I will actually cut those leaves maybe in half. So I'll still have two, but I'll cut off some of them and you know just with
Plant People: Are you cutting across the leaf or down the leaf? How are you cutting that, Alexis?
Alexis : usually just across. I'm just like grabbing them and giving him me a giving them a haircut basically.
Plant People: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Trying to just keep that from losing so much moisture.
Alexis : um
Plant People: You said.
Alexis : Yes, so and losing so much moisture and not asking so much of that stem while it doesn't even have roots.
Plant People: yeah Gotcha.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : So so then you're left with this little ah this little stem. You got your little node at the bottom. You got your leaves that have had a haircut, roughly two.
Alexis : If there are any bloom buds or even leaf buds, I tend to take those off. Because again, those are needy structures. They take up a lot of food. They take up a lot of water.
Alexis : And we ain't got no roots, baby. So we take those off.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : um Just pinch them off with your fingers. It's fine. Make sure you have clean tools and clean hands when you do this as well. We don't want to introduce any bacteria to that fresh cut.
Plant People: ah No garden soil, I'm assuming.
Alexis : And then what?
Plant People: i said, no garden, no native garden soil. and You said, no, no contamination.
Alexis : Yeah, no native garden soil. Yeah.
Plant People: i was like, oh, that's a no, no, I bet. Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah, yeah. i am And this is definitely a do what I say, not as i do it which is probably why some of my cuttings die, because I don't wash my hands and or snips as often as I should.
Plant People: You're 70% isopropyl is not sitting there handy.
Alexis : um
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : yeah Yes, but if I was doing this and being paid to do it for somebody else, I would be cleaning my snips pretty often throughout that.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So we've got our little stem with its haircut leaves, and then we are going to dip that cut end pretty quickly. We don't want to wait. We don't want this to air dry.
Alexis : So fairly quickly after you cut it, ah you're going to dip it in some type of hormone. So there's multiple ones out there for a softwood or herbaceous cuttings, just the standard hormone.
Alexis : If you Google rooting hormone or you go to your box store, you can buy rooting hormone. Generally, whatever they've got on the shelf is going to be just fine for what you want to use. Once we get into hardwoods, we get a little bit more intense and a little bit more specific. But Like I have seen the most success with just the pretty much the cheapest rooting hormone you can buy for any of these.
Alexis : So you're going to dip that cut end into the rooting hormone and then you'll place in the media. So let's talk about media. Do you all have a.
Plant People: The media.
Brett: Well, can I get one one thing real quick on the rooting hormone, if you are a dork, um so there's different levels of strength of rooting hormone and Alexis mentioned that, but they actually, a lot of the companies, they will have a species list that has, these are the recommended levels for that particular thing.
Alexis : Yes.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: And so The high strength ones, that's an indicator. This is something that's challenging to root.
Plant People: Really got to push, yeah.
Brett: You know, if you're trying to set set a PR for most difficult plants to set to to root, it'll be on that list.
Alexis : yeah
Brett: So if you're if you're wanting a little bit extra confirmation that this is the right one, usually either in the pack or online, they'll have a ah list of the different species and match it up.
Alexis : Yeah. Yeah. And I will say for a lot of woody cuttings, um a minimum of a thousand parts per million is what you're looking for. um So you can get away with probably 90% of what you need this for with a thousand parts per million.
Brett: All
Alexis : You can go higher, um but you know, that'll be a good place to start.
Brett: all right, media, sorry.
Alexis : Yes. No, that's good. Do you all have any preferences on media you use for rooting?
Plant People: Immediately, something with no fertilizer in it, I see that cause a lot of problems. A lot of potting soil is, I mean, they love to add value.
Alexis : Yes. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Let's, I guess, put it nicely. Add value by putting in some kind of slow-release fertilizer. And that's a no-no.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: I've got had a lot of burn in the past with that, and I've done projects.
Alexis : Yeah. No fertilizer for sure.
Plant People: No fertilizers. But I find that if you go, and it's readily available most box stores now, you can go and get the... the the small bag mixes that are specifically for starting seeds, and that almost never has fertilizer in it.
Plant People: It's a finer mix.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Now you can add some amendments to lighten that up, but I start with something like that, Alexis, because it's kind of hard it's to find something that doesn't have fertilizer in it sometimes because a lot of the stuff does.
Alexis : Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: So watch out for that.
Alexis : Yes. Good. Very good point, right? What about you, Brett?
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : What do you like to use?
Brett: Well, so I i personally find for for me in general, moisture causes more problems than it does solutions or or like, you know, water is life, but water is death.
Alexis : smith little easier to give something moisture than to take it away.
Brett: Yeah. And so, so it's definitely for me, a significantly more well draining mix than I would use for like seed starting or potting up a house plant or something that has established roots.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Brett: And there's some stuff with, again, i keep them under the back of the bonsai world, but they'll, they'll do like some. crazy loose mixes where it's like just straight up sand, like, like large, large, large, uh, particle size sand or really fine particle perlite or something like that, where it's like, it's, it's really, it's weird.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Almost like bark and sand.
Alexis : Yeah.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brett: Cause you're kind of, you're kind of crossing over with the rooting. You're kind of crossing over into this almost like hydroponic space, as opposed to the seed starting of your tomato plant, where at least that's been my experience that, uh, if it stays too wet, it'll rot.
Alexis : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Yeah, I will say that for hardwoods especially, that um the more drainage, the better. And but so for softwoods, you're kind of right in the middle but between those. So um for herbaceous cuttings, a regular old potting soil, which is, you know, peat, vermiculite, perlite is going to be great.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : And for probably most your softwood cuttings, you would be fine with just that. But I prefer to add, to either do solid vermiculite, which is that shiny substance, um or if that's unavailable, because sometimes that's hard to find for people, or, you know, it can be expensive as well, and you don't want to reuse that too much.
Alexis : So I actually like, for softwood cuttings, a... ah potting soil that I add a lot more perlite, which is the white substance too.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : So I get the benefit of a little more water holding from that peat that's in that potting soil, but I get a lot of aeration, which is what we want, a lot of drainage by adding.
Plant People: yeah
Alexis : So I'll do like one part, roughly one part potting soil
Plant People: one One to one.
Alexis : to two parts per light and put that in a mix.
Plant People: Two parts. Gotcha.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah, yeah. um and it And it does kind of you know depend a little bit. You could probably do one to one ratio as well. ah
Plant People: But important to add some though.
Alexis : But when I've done it.
Plant People: Yeah, it sounds like, yeah.
Brett: It ends up looking, I described, so this is actually the mix that I grow my, but almost identical mix that I grow my pre bonsai trees in when I'm trying to develop old crazy roots and stuff.
Brett: And I described it as dirty perlite. It looks kind of like dirty, more so than black with a couple of perlite pieces sprinkled It's more like white with you know the the dirt of the peat stuff.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : The pro-make sprinkled in, yeah.
Plant People: I've seen that almost on everything.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : and
Plant People: They say add perlite, even if you're using like the seed starting mix I mentioned, you would definitely add something to that because it's a seed starting mix.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: It's finely ground. You would, and almost all the notes that I've read or the books I've seen is a one to one or two to one or even greater, like you're talking about bread, even a ratio.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: But yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, a full commercial level, they'll probably use only perlite or only vermiculite or only sand, depending on what they're they're rooting.
Brett: yeah
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis : But I think for like the ah average person or even the, you know, plant inclined person, you need a little bit more flexibility, which is where that peak comes in.
Brett: agreed agreed yeah if it's not your full-time job to monitor these cuttings exactly exactly
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : So yeah. Correct. Right. Exactly. You don't have like monitors out the wazoo to keep measurements of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so that would be my recommendation, uh, for your media. So put your media into, you can pretty much use any type of, um, you know, cell or flat that you want, uh, to use. You just want to make sure that it's deep enough that, uh, you can bury, um,
Alexis : you know, one or two of your nodes underground and are under soil, under your soil media. And then it's not going to like touch the very bottom of your tray because you want some media below that for the roots to go into.
Alexis : But pretty much anything with drainage will do. And then one really important thing, again, some people are going to say they don't do this. But, and again, sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. And I do see a difference, especially when you're using, doing softwood or something like hardwood where you need you need to kind of nail it.
Alexis : um You need a dibble. What is a dibble? A dibble is your finger, a pencil, a little raw, a little wooden rod, Sharpie, anything like whatever you're going to.
Brett: Sharpie. I like a Sharpie. I like a big Sharpie.
Plant People: I thought you said jerky, Brett. I thought you said jerky.
Brett: Jerky.
Plant People: I was like, what kind of animal are you?
Brett: Use some beef jerky.
Alexis : He dips his jerky in his perlite.
Brett: Get a little inoculum on there.
Plant People: I use my Slim Jim jerky and I was like, what kind of animal are you?
Alexis : Slim Jim.
Plant People: What?
Alexis : um
Plant People: i was like, I am so confused right now.
Brett: Dibble with a Slim Jim.
Alexis : yeah Whatever you I usually use, whatever I'm using to write my plant tags with.
Plant People: a death Sorry.
Brett: Oh, yeah.
Plant People: Sorry. I dibble. I dibble.
Alexis : So um my pencil or.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Right, right.
Plant People: Mine's just a number two pencil. I just, a yeah.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah. So you're going to use that to make a little hole so that when you insert your cutting, you're not washing away all of your rooting hormone, right? You want that hormone to stay on that cut end.
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis : And so you make that little dibble, you put it down in there till it's kind of firm and you firm that in to your ah soil mixture media mix. that sound good?
Brett: Yeah, I virtually never
Alexis : Make sense?
Plant People: Got it.
Brett: ah do cutting. I'll do cutting, i like it could do cuttings in individual cells. I will almost always do them in like a bunch, like in a small flat or something like that.
Brett: And let those, for me, i' let i let those, a lot of that foliage kind of be close to each other.
Alexis : okay
Brett: So it helps to maintain a little bit of the the humidity around. It makes a little forest that it holds onto that humidity a little bit better.
Alexis : little microclimate yeah yeah
Plant People: Community is really important. Yeah.
Brett: And it, but the point being like we're used to, sometimes people were used to seed starting where you've got an individual cells and each one has its own and you've a pretty good, you know, whatever with, you don't have to do that. You could take a whole bunch of cuttings and do them in a, create a little mat.
Brett: It looks like a, a, you know, a tray of microgreens or something. Um, anyway.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : There's yeah lots of ways. It just kind of depends what you want to deal with down the road and what you are able to deal with now. So if humidity is a problem for you, clustering them is good. But if you usually have high humidity, then you don't necessarily need to do that.
Brett: True.
Alexis : And so and then you don't have to deal with your roots, separating your roots out later. Um, so, okay.
Brett: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So we've got our cutting in our media and whatever form or fashion, and now we have to grow it on for a while. And so softwood cuttings can take, uh, know, where ah a herbaceous cutting can take a couple weeks, a softwood cutting can take a couple months.
Plant People: ah Four to six weeks at least, yeah.
Alexis : Um, Yeah, yeah. So it it really just depends on the, you know, there's a lot of different or a lot of things that can play a part, but don't be expecting it to root in two weeks like you would.
Brett: Yeah. Hot,
Alexis : Also, for softwood, typically we want them actually in a little bit more of a shaded area because when we're taking these cuttings in the spring, it's about get hot for most of us, right, in the summer.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : We don't want those cuttings to be experiencing is any more stress than we have to, than they have to. And so um we actually tend to shade them, put them, you know, I put mine under like a greenhouse bench, or if you put them inside, you can do that where there's mirror window, but they're still good.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So they're still getting light, but it's not harsh sunlight. The other reason is right.
Plant People: That's a tough thing. I see bright, but not direct. That's what you're saying. I guess I see that.
Alexis : Yeah. Bright, but not direct.
Plant People: And know but sometimes that's tough for people, especially if you're using a humidity tent.
Alexis : Yep. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Ask me how I know, but yeah, I felt that you were going in that direction.
Alexis : Yes, that was my next thing.
Plant People: So my gosh.
Alexis : Yeah, so you need to give them some sort of humidity.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : And so even in a greenhouse situation where they're being shaded, they'll often put some sort of dome, humidity dome, or you you could put a plastic them in a clear plastic bag.
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis : But all that to say, if you got them out in too much sunlight, then they're going to just, you know, bake in there, right? They're going to
Plant People: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : shrivel up. So you don't want to do that. So you'll put them ah under, you know, in some shade somewhere. Make sure that that media that you put them in is consistently moist, which is why that high drainage is important because it's going to stay kind of wet, but the those particles are so big that there's ah enough air in there.
Alexis : So you want that to stay wet and you're going to leave that humidity on for at least a month, maybe two, that humidity dome or that bag, whatever you're using to create this like mini greenhouse atmosphere.
Alexis : um
Brett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Are you using a bottom heat for this process too, or did I just jump ahead?
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : ah You can, it depends on what it is. Usually if you're doing them in the summer, like where where they're coming into the summer months, if you've got them outside in the shade, that is enough warmth that they're going to be fine.
Alexis : um As long as we don't get cold. if As long as it doesn't drop below like 65 degrees at night, they're going to be great outside. If you're going to move them inside the house, put them on a heat mat in that indirect light.
Plant People: That's typically around 80 degrees or something, which isn't, is yeah.
Alexis : Steph,
Brett: Depends, yeah.
Alexis : 72 would be, yeah kind of depends, but I would say like 70 72. Mm-hmm.
Plant People: I know some of them, the good ones you can set the temperature on, but the ones that are preset are 75, 80.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: And I've heard greenhouse people call that, um you know, ones that are doing like large quantity as the of these, and even our local associate or big commercial greenhouse, they call it, what is it?
Plant People: Warm feet, cool head. And that's how they they they train people is that they, I guess, like you said, and that's in a controlled environment, it's gotta be 75 degrees or so at the roots and then cooler up top, you know, 70.
Alexis : oh
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : yeah
Brett: I back to our discussion on, on perlite versus dirty perlite versus something else.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: um If you add a heat mat, you are increasing the rate that the water is going to evaporate, meaning you've got to keep an eye on them to keep them moist enough that but yeah i've I've had good success with both with and without the heat mat, but with, with the heat mat, you've got to be paying a little more attention.
Plant People: Yes, yes. Yeah. Rot will be a problem. Decay will be a problem.
Plant People: do Are you using, in your scenario, Brett, are you using a dome or some kind of covering? ah You are?
Brett: Dome, and it was like, depends on how big it is.
Plant People: Okay. Yeah.
Brett: If it's something relatively small, I'll just take a Ziploc bag and like a gallon or two gallon bag and just put it over it.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Ziploc or something, like a gallon bag. Yeah. So you're using that too for your process?
Brett: And i do I do periodically kind of like take that off and let everything kind of breathe for a little while and then put it back on.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: When I see those big drips starting to, kind of mist is fine on the inside of the bag, but i I get nervous when I start to see the big drops starting to condense and drop down.
Alexis : Yes.
Brett: Big drop.
Plant People: That's when I, yeah, the big drops, you don't want that. Then I'm propping edges or depending on what the material is, I'm ventilating that thing. That is my breaking point.
Alexis : Yes.
Brett: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: I'm like, I am going to rot stuff.
Alexis : You do want a little bit of ventilation, even if it's um you.
Plant People: I don't
Alexis : Again, it depends on how often you have to water. But like, you know, maybe you take your dome off to water and you leave that dome off for oh just a couple minutes, just enough for you to get some water.
Plant People: know.
Alexis : Maybe you water everything else.
Plant People: I
Alexis : And then before you finish, you pop that dome back on, you know, every other day or something like that. you want very high humidity. But to raise perfect point, you don't want big fat raindrops. You just want a light a light mist, a little little fog in there, one might say.
Brett: Pop that dome back home.
Plant People: like that fog. Yeah, fogged up.
Alexis : Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: That's perfect way to put it. Yeah.
Alexis : um
Plant People: and You just want to look foggy.
Alexis : Yeah, and then you just then you just wait. And so I would say like at a month, you might kind of check to you know give them just the slightest little tug, just little as possible, see if you feel any resistance.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : Hopefully you do feel ah even just a little bit and then you just put that dome back on and then you let them go. So I, well, you know, looking at the wajalia and almond cuttings I did last year, which I think are pretty good examples of, ah you know, softwood cuttings.
Alexis : I took them in June after they bloomed and they were rooted and ready to pot up by, um i think my tag said around August.
Alexis : And then yes, they were because they were
Brett: Mm-hmm. And and you you took them when did you say?
Alexis : In June, early June.
Brett: June. Okay.
Alexis : Right.
Plant People: Tinge log and see.
Alexis : ah Yeah. Right after they bloom, they bloomed around or the Vigelia bloomed around Mother's Day. So then I took them early June, which is about two weeks after they bloomed.
Brett: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Alexis : Blooms were done. And then, yeah, so I potted them up around mid-August or so. And I then they were ready.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : And because I gave Brett a cut, a rooted cutting and like ah and a nice size pot. mid-September. So, um you know, that gives you kind of an idea of what those look like. And now they're coming back to life because they're still in those little pots ah that I potted them up in, you know, in last August of last year. And so the ones that I didn't give away, i still have, and they're now starting to leaf out and they're still in their little pots. And so at this point, I'll probably be able to plant them outside. So basically i took cuttings last June and I will probably plant them this year
Alexis : ah you know, April, May. So almost a full year, could probably go a full year or a year and a half because they are still quite small. But I'm going to give them a little extra TLC.
Brett: Yeah. And depending on how you're like, what you're doing, your cuttings into, there's not really a rush to get them out.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: I think sometimes people get more impatient than and they, you know, could go a little longer.
Alexis : Yeah.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: I mean, if you're more experienced and you can do that, and and if you can get ah a plant into its own pot, it's going to have more room.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: It's not competing for resources. going to grow faster period. um But there's also, i have had cuttings that I took in, June and I just let them rock until the following spring, just as cuttings growing.
Alexis : Yep.
Plant People: Oh.
Alexis : Yep.
Brett: And they, you know, they grew together a little bit, but I'm doing a bunch of root work and stuff on a lot of them anyway. But so, I mean, like there, there is that too. Some of them, some of them will be like, I don't even know if these took. And then I forget about them.
Brett: And then I come back and I'm like, they made it.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: And they're fine. Yeah, they're good.
Alexis : Oh, cool. Yeah.
Brett: And the ones that I was like, that's all over.
Plant People: They're good.
Alexis : Yeah. Mine's more about, I just don't want to baby them anymore.
Plant People: You're babying, you've ruined them, yeah.
Brett: These are the ones I was babying and kid paying attention to all die.
Plant People: Mother Nature's out there, mother naturing.
Brett: The ones that was just like, grew out and was like, whatever.
Alexis : Yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis : so um So yeah, so if you're wondering what you can take cuttings from, you know make sure it's not a patented plant. We have to tell you that ah you know so that you can take cuttings from it. But really, if it's a soft wood, you should be able to take a cutting from it. And you know you can experiment a little bit about what's going on and what's in there. One of the books I recommend that i actually have opened for this episode is from the American Horticulture Society, and it's literally called Plant Propagation. and This one is an oldie, but a goodie. Plants have been propagating the same way for many, many years. And it is great photos, really great description, much better than I could ever probably tell you on a podcast. But
Alexis : Highly recommend that book. There's a lot of them out there that you and you can look up a lot of stuff online. We do have some publications we can link as well. But it it really is simple.
Alexis : And I think once you do it once or twice, you'll you'll nail it. it's And my one tip is take three times as many as you actually want.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : Like literally at least three.
Brett: I was going to say, I was going to say 10 times.
Alexis : Yeah, ten three because if you're limited on space.
Plant People: Yeah. The more, the better.
Alexis : Ten if you just want to make sure you have the limits.
Brett: If you want one,
Alexis : And that's, I do that as someone who's experienced, I always take a bunch. the
Brett: if you want one and you take one cutting, it will die. If you want one and you take 10 cuttings, they will all survive.
Alexis : Yes.
Plant People: will live.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Yes.
Alexis : And then you can make and give them to your friends. So, you know, it's a, you'll be the most popular person.
Brett: That's right.
Alexis : you'll It's a win-win either way.
Brett: What?
Plant People: For plant swaps and stuff, it's so much fun doing this. And and one plant, i mean because plant stock is very expensive.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: If you have an heirloom plant or a plant that's off patent, man, it's so cool that you can get 20 plants from even cuttings from one small plant. I mean, and if you are careful, like Brett was saying earlier, and you cut down to the next nearest growing point, it doesn't hurt the plant, you know, the parent plant, mother plant, but so cool.
Plant People: So cool.
Brett: one One question I...
Alexis : It's a good way to prune your plant too. Like you're pruning it and taking cuttings at the same time.
Plant People: Yeah, yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : i mean.
Brett: Well, the the the thing that it gets me into trouble is I'll prune stuff and I'll be like, I can't just let this die.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: Win-win.
Brett: i need to take turn all of it into cuttings because I need more potted plants to take care of.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Oh, so you're trying to use the prunings. Yeah.
Alexis : yeah
Brett: Absolutely.
Plant People: You need more anxiety in your life.
Brett: That's what I need.
Plant People: Yes. I need some more responsibilities.
Brett: But...
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: Well, the one one other thing we... We sort of talked about it, but... um talking about taking new growth that's juvenile, but it's ready and it's, you know hardened off and it's kind of ready to roll.
Brett: As far as size of cuttings, like the actual size of the stem, um any thoughts on that?
Alexis : Yeah. Good point.
Plant People: kind of plant dependent. I base it more on the stage of what, like we were saying, you're trying to balancing, you know, and different size or different plants have different size stems at appropriate timing.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: So I base it more on the the maturity of the material I'm working with.
Alexis : Yeah.
Plant People: ah Did you have something specific in mind for you, Brett?
Alexis : Yeah. And you just, you don't want too many leaves.
Plant People: It may be different. Yeah.
Alexis : Yeah. You don't want too many leaves.
Plant People: A
Alexis : I like to bury at least, you know, in a perfect world and the perfect cutting.
Plant People: couple of no's.
Alexis : I like to you know, you've got your, your node that has the rooting hormone. And then ideally I get to, be I'm going to bury a second node, the net one next higher.
Plant People: moon
Alexis : Cause I still might get some root growth, you know, I'll get, um, later on from there. And then I got a really happy plant.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Alexis : So that's two. And then ideally I would like to have two above ground, um, for, leaf and branch growth down the road. So like four, if I had four would be the minimum, if in a perfect world, but for a lot of plants that are easy to root, you just need one above and one below and you're good to go.
Alexis : um but four would be where, where I usually go any more than that. I start to worry. I'm sure that I'm just, I'm an over worrier when it comes to stuff like that. So, um, I tend to like over take off more leaves than I probably should. And you know, that kind of stuff. But, um,
Brett: I think for the thing that I've experienced is
Alexis : I want them as little stress as possible.
Brett: you start to get greedy about trying to accelerate the process of having a big plant by trying to use cuttings that are too big or they're too, they're too lignified.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
Alexis : Too big. Yeah.
Brett: They're too, in some cases it's not gonna work at all cause it's too old.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But I think in general, not to say that you need to do the teeny tiniest little cuttings, but, but the younger and therefore smaller cuttings usually have a higher, higher take rate.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Brett: You know, if you want to, take a bunch of different different styles. And this is what I did.
Alexis : Different sizes.
Brett: i tried some that were, you know, because I want things to have a thick trunk fast or, you know, ah ah be able to grow big fast. And it's just your take rate's going to be, your your success rate's going to be a little lower.
Plant People: It's fun to play around with. I mean, the number one thing is if you have not done anything like this, just know that you can do it. And, you know, go and look up top five easiest plants. At the top of every one is going to be hydrangea probably. ah You know, and there's some other easy ones that Alexis and Brett mentioned.
Plant People: But just look up something like that. Find ones that you have the highest likelihood of success and go out and just try it. you know, based on the basic information that we gave you today. And I think you'll be surprised in a lot of situations.
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: You're going to have some success. And that's so encouraging when you have that cloned plant of the parent plant. And, you know, it's ah it's just kind of a really cool thing.
Brett: Yeah, i think I think one of the things that I i love love about propagation, and I'm imagining it in this case, is that if you have like a tree or a bush or something that has like some sort of sentimental value for you or your family,
Alexis : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
Brett: I mean, people do this with house house plants and stuff too. It's in like, let's say it's reaching the end of its lifespan or it's going to need to go for one reason or another. You're able to like recreate that in a way that can be either shared with other people.
Brett: So like, you know, that ah parents giving it to their kids of like, this is front cutting from this place that ah from where you grew up and you know you can plant it at your new house or, you know, that, that type of thing.
Brett: It's just really, really cool. Yeah.
Plant People: ah I've had to do that before, Brad, and it that is so neat. And when you explain to people, now listen, this is not like the the parent plant. It's exactly the parent plant. And that's really cool. You're bringing that plant forward with you. I've done that with like red twig dogwoods and some lilacs and some other things. Even the regular dogwood I got to wear. But it's so cool when you can't take that plant with you and it' if it's a memorial plant or something, yeah it's super cool.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, it's good thought.
Brett: Had to finish this on a sentimental note.
Alexis : Awesome.
Plant People: It's a good word.
Alexis : as Alexis gets to talk science the whole time and is just jacked about it.
Plant People: no Meristematic activity.
Alexis : um If you couldn't tell, I freaking love talking about this stuff. But if you've got questions, please feel free to reach out to us, shoot us an email.
Plant People: yeah it's good stuff.
Alexis : You know, you can follow us on Instagram. I am going to do better at keeping up with that. If you've not seen posts, it's, it's me.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis : I'm the problem. Hello. But we're working on that. Please feel free to send us an email or reach out to us and in another way. If you've got questions on taking cuttings or plants in general, you If it's nerd stuff like that, I love to answer it.
Alexis : So please, you are not bothering us if you want to ask questions about it. ah But yeah, anything else I'm forgetting, guys?
Plant People: I don't think so.
Alexis : No? Wonderful. Well, we thank you guys for being with us today, and we hope you'll join us next time. And don't forget, we'll cover more about cuttings later in the fall. So don't miss out on those. But, you know, any of the cool stuff we have coming up between now and then.
Alexis : We'll see you later.
