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Gardening on a Budget
66 Plays22 hours ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, the hosts discuss why people garden and how to keep gardening affordable. They begin by sharing their personal reasons for gardening, such as growing fresh food, experimenting with unusual plants, creating relaxing outdoor spaces, or producing crops for market. The group emphasizes that successful budget gardening starts with a plan. Gardeners should think about their available space, what foods they actually like to eat, and how much time they can realistically spend maintaining plants. Poor planning can lead to overcrowded gardens, wasted money, and disappointing results. They also talk about different growing methods, including containers, raised beds, and planting directly in the ground. While containers and raised beds can be convenient, they often require more inputs like potting soil and fertilizer. When possible, using native soil can be the most cost-effective option. The hosts share tips for saving money, such as using repurposed containers, buying quality seeds or transplants from trusted sources, participating in seed swaps, and checking local schools or extension programs for affordable plants. They also discuss the pros and cons of starting seeds at home versus buying transplants. Finally, they remind gardeners to plan for a productive harvest. Gardens can produce more food than expected, so preserving or freezing extra produce can help make the most of the season and reduce waste.
Home Vegetable Gardening in Kentucky
How To Save Money in The Garden
Kentucky Extension Service County Offices
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Greetings
00:00:17
Brett
Greetings, plant people.
00:00:19
Alexis
Earthlings.
00:00:21
Plant People
I was going to say earthlings were on the same vibe.
00:00:22
Brett
Welcome to another episode of Hort Culture. And today we're joined by all four all four of our core team here.
00:00:26
Jessica
Hello.
00:00:27
Plant People
That was kind like a.
Personal Gardening Experiences
00:00:30
Brett
And I wanted to open open by asking you all, do you garden? And if so, why the heck do you do that?
00:00:41
Plant People
Hmm.
00:00:42
Alexis
I garden in pots predominantly and because I think it's really exciting to grow weird things that I've never grown before or i just i just picked up some turmeric.
00:00:57
Alexis
I'm going to grow some turmeric this year. I'm just excited to grow some plants that I can also eat.
00:01:03
Brett
So you like to eat it? Do you like to look at it?
00:01:05
Alexis
Yeah. I mean, I like to see it thriving. Yeah, I like to see my success.
00:01:11
Brett
oh i think of it as like there it's the plant's success and you're just there to, you know.
00:01:16
Plant People
oh
00:01:16
Jessica
Oh.
00:01:17
Alexis
Listen, i gotta I gotta take some credit because I don't get very much.
Market Gardening and Unique Varieties
00:01:20
Plant People
Looking at you, Lemon Tree.
00:01:20
Brett
I like that.
00:01:24
Brett
What about y'all?
00:01:26
Jessica
Money. know just kidding.
00:01:28
Plant People
Money?
00:01:29
Jessica
I mean, because we do market gardens, but ah I just like having the fresh produce to eat.
00:01:30
Plant People
Gainful?
00:01:39
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:01:39
Jessica
Like, and then preserving some of it and then having it like right now, this time of year, like where we just cracked open another jar of strawberry jam the other day from some of the strawberries we had.
00:01:53
Jessica
So I like seeing that. And like Alexis said, trying the weird varieties, like try something new. Like I'm not allowed to grow this kind of stuff with the stuff that's going to market.
00:02:03
Jessica
But like I've ordered purple. I might've already talked about this. I'm very excited about it. I've ordered purple sweet corn.
00:02:10
Plant People
Oh, nice.
00:02:10
Jessica
Okay. It's supposed to stay purple when it is cooked. And that doesn't normally happen when you have purple vegetables.
00:02:16
Alexis
yeah it's really gray. but
00:02:17
Jessica
They turn gray.
00:02:18
Plant People
Are you going to, are you going to to separate that from the other sweet corn though?
00:02:19
Jessica
So, so I will report back.
00:02:19
Brett
Is it is it
00:02:22
Jessica
Hey dad.
00:02:23
Brett
is it grape flavored?
00:02:25
Plant People
Ooh.
00:02:25
Jessica
I don't know. My kids might think it might be great flavored.
00:02:27
Alexis
It's purple giant flavored.
00:02:29
Jessica
Yeah. It's just purple drink flavor.
00:02:29
Brett
Mm-hmm. Tasty. Oh, yeah.
00:02:31
Plant People
Purple drink.
00:02:32
Jessica
No, it will be separated. i said, Ray, dad, because my father-in-law and my dad both said, you can't plant that near the other sweet corn.
00:02:36
Brett
Yeah, Ray Dad.
00:02:37
Plant People
We did.
00:02:41
Jessica
It might cross pollinate. And I was like, well, you know, I only have a horticulture degree and been doing this for so many years.
00:02:46
Alexis
Right. I actually have this degree that neither of you have. Thank you.
00:02:51
Jessica
so yes. So we got that just for fun, right? Purple corn, sweet corn.
00:02:56
Brett
Purple corn.
00:02:57
Plant People
Is it something that people will have, ah you said for market, is that right, Jessica, for market or for home or both or whatever?
00:03:03
Jessica
I think for both. i mean, it was advertised in very common seed seed catalog that sells a lot of products for homeowners and market growers.
00:03:04
Plant People
Okay. Mm-hmm.
00:03:12
Jessica
So...
00:03:13
Plant People
i mean, that's one the cool things about farmer's market, if you're a market producer, is growing novel things. and We've had a lot of discussion about this over the last couple weeks during a lot of community classes.
Choosing Varieties for Personal Satisfaction
00:03:22
Plant People
We've had several strawberry classes and we've had asparagus and we have other small berries, brambles, things like that coming up.
00:03:29
Plant People
but the novel things that that you won't necessarily find that are mainstream, that you know kind of a ah ship first kind of variety, ah picked first and foremost for its durability for shipping rather than for its maybe flavor.
00:03:44
Plant People
and But that's one of the cool things about like market stuff and growing stuff for home. Brett, just to kind of speak to your question is you can choose varieties that it the first quality you look for in those varieties is that it tastes the best to you or it looks cool or it's just weird, Alexis and Jessica, purple corn and whatever Alexis has going on over there.
00:04:03
Alexis
this says
00:04:09
Plant People
But, I mean, choice and and you can grow some of these cool things. You know, for me, it's like i sometimes I think it's almost like childhood trauma. I said I'm never coming back to this.
00:04:19
Plant People
I never have to pick another bushel of market beans in my entire life. so i But I came back to it at a certain point in my life because it's what I grew up with. And, you know, I kind of waxed nostalgic at some point and came back around to that. But a lot of it is kind of the qualities of these things, these heirlooms. I mean, heirlooms have their own challenges if you're talking about growing them. But boy, it more than makes up.
00:04:45
Plant People
for it when you pick these things and fix these things um as far as the different qualities. But for me, it's just about choice. um
00:04:53
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:04:54
Plant People
And, you know, there's joy in growing things just for me personally, too. I'm sure there is for for all of you guys in one respect or
Gardening on a Budget
00:05:02
Plant People
another. But yeah, that's cool. Purple corn and turmeric, Alexis.
00:05:05
Jessica
I will give updates as the season goes on.
00:05:06
Plant People
I mean...
00:05:08
Plant People
Yeah, very curious. Did you get requests for things like that? Does that drive some of the interest? Or did you just see Purple Corn and be like, Purple Corn, that's weird.
00:05:16
Jessica
but That was just an impulse.
00:05:18
Plant People
and Okay.
00:05:18
Jessica
I was supposed to be ordering other seeds that were for legit ah on the order list for the business.
00:05:19
Plant People
no
00:05:24
Jessica
And then I was like, well, look at that. Well, let's just add that to cart.
00:05:28
Plant People
you I'm the one ordering.
00:05:28
Jessica
Right. um
00:05:30
Plant People
I'm going to do what I want.
00:05:30
Jessica
Also, yeah, I got some Beauregard sweet potatoes because why not?
00:05:31
Plant People
Okay.
00:05:31
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:05:35
Jessica
My son is named Beauregard and he thought that was cool.
00:05:35
Plant People
That's a standard. That's a good one, yeah.
00:05:38
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah, but sometimes with the market, getting some like unique veggies like that, however you think... A lot of times you're like, oh, this is really cool. A different kind of variety that's going to sell. Right.
00:05:52
Jessica
But people are often very leery of that. So experience over time we did one year, we had like red, white and blue potatoes. My husband was very excited about this and he was like, they're going to sell.
00:06:06
Jessica
They didn't really um patty pan squash. Right.
00:06:09
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:06:10
Jessica
the People either love it or they hate it. A squash variety that we grow every year that is very popular now. And I think like our market, like the people know to look for it and they know it's really good is ah a yellow squash called Zephyr. And it's like half yellow, half green.
00:06:25
Jessica
um But I know like when I see that being offered at other markets or maybe it hasn't been, you know, I've seen it offered in the market where I work at here and people are like, what's wrong with that?
00:06:37
Jessica
squash, right? Like they're not, it's something's, something's wrong with it. So sometimes it's, sometimes it works and other times people are are just looking for those traditional, you know, you know what you know, kind of varieties.
00:06:49
Jessica
so you got to kind of win, win, win win the customer over.
00:06:50
Plant People
Quite half earned beans. Yes. Yeah.
00:06:53
Brett
Yeah.
00:06:54
Plant People
It's like their middle ground there.
00:06:54
Brett
Well, so I'm, I'm, I'm pure like vibes based gardener now.
00:06:55
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:02
Brett
So like, if it doesn't contribute to the vibe or it detracts from the vibe, it's out.
00:07:08
Alexis
Don't kill my vibe.
00:07:09
Brett
Don't kill my vibe. And the reason I ask about that, so like I want a space to spend time in that it feels like there's plants growing and it's cool and it's it's relaxing and it's all those things.
00:07:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:07:19
Jessica
Thank you.
00:07:20
Brett
And that's one of the reasons why a couple years ago we completely shifted from growing like annual vegetables to growing perennials is just a different thing.
00:07:31
Brett
and the reason i the reason I opened by asking this is because I think that it's ah it's something that's kind of –
00:07:31
Plant People
Just what brings you joy.
00:07:38
Brett
Some people would roll their eyes be like, oh, that's very Brett question that you're asking. Who cares?
00:07:43
Plant People
me
00:07:44
Brett
I grow the plants. It's gardening. Stop turning this into some sort of thought experiment. But I will not stop ever.
00:07:52
Alexis
I will not stop. Okay.
00:07:53
Brett
And also, I think it's it's an important thing. And we talk about this with folks folks who are who are operating businesses or who operating you know some sort of an organization. But also, think it's important to just like reflect a little bit as you enter into conversations like we're going to have today about budget gardening, gardening on a budget.
00:08:00
Plant People
Thank you.
00:08:10
Brett
What is the reason that you're doing this in the first place? And so... If your reason for doing this is you want to space outside to spend some time grow some plants and see them
Planning for Gardening Success
00:08:23
Brett
grow.
00:08:23
Brett
Great. Keep that in mind. If your reason for doing this is you want to have really tasty stuff to eat from your garden throughout the course of the season and you really enjoy you know making some salsa and having friends over and eating it.
00:08:36
Brett
Great. If what you're trying to do is offset household expenditures, you're trying to save money by growing stuff for yourself. Great, but keep that in mind.
00:08:48
Alexis
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
00:08:48
Brett
And I think there's some other reasons that I'll talk about later that I think aren't aren't great reasons to garden that sometimes people get caught and caught up in. But so as you as we embark on this conversation about gardening on a budget, just remember there's different reasons people do this in the first place.
00:09:03
Brett
For some people, it's just a hobby.
00:09:04
Plant People
Hmm.
00:09:05
Brett
It's just a thing. And so you're not not trying to spend too much money on your hobby.
00:09:06
Jessica
Thank
00:09:09
Brett
And so you want to save a little money here and there, great. But if you're if you're really trying to save some money, Well, it's easy to not do that while gardening. um And so we hope to ah head that off, but also acknowledge that as we talk about gardening budget, gardening on a budget.
00:09:27
Brett
I think one of the things that we might recommend for anyone is to make a plan. This is just something, Jessica, that you say you've talked about in some of your your classes in the past.
00:09:32
Alexis
Hmm.
00:09:37
Brett
So what do what what do you goes into something like a plan and why might that be useful for a budget, for gardening on a budget?
00:09:44
Jessica
Well, I think like you got to think about what is your environment like at home first, right? Like, what is it? Do you live in an apartment? Do you have space in ah but like a backyard to put a raised bed or maybe you're just growing in containers or do you actually have ground you can till up, right?
00:10:02
Jessica
um i think that's where, you know, you want to start at. And then consider, as you mentioned, all those other things. Do you need something just as simple as i just want to grow a few herbs in ah and a flower pot just to add, just have a little culinary.
00:10:17
Alexis
Little judge.
00:10:18
Jessica
Yeah. You know, or am i wanting to grow tomatoes and peppers and the whole shebang to do salsa and then can that salsa and have it, you know, to eat throughout the year? um So that's my first thing I think about is like, what is your growing situation like?
00:10:34
Jessica
Right? Like what, what can you do? Cause that'll really determine very quickly how much you can, you can do. ah Followed by like, you know, what I think I always tell a lot of people with garden planning and when they decide you actually want to pick stuff that you like, and you can waste money very quickly by growing a lot of things that you don't really like to eat.
00:10:50
Alexis
Yes.
00:10:53
Alexis
Yes.
00:10:53
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:10:57
Jessica
Does your family like eggplant? Do you only eat eggplant parmesan? Is that the only that you know way you're going to use it? um I always give the example in a lot of my classes of with ghost peppers. My husband really likes spicy peppers. Do you know each one of those pepper plants produce 50 to 75 peppers themselves? So maybe we don't need to plant 25 ghost pepper plants.
00:11:20
Jessica
Right. is So I think that's like starting off there where you're playing what you like to eat, those ultimate goals. What is your
Logistics of Gardening: Watering to Trellising
00:11:27
Jessica
environment like to start planting?
00:11:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:11:29
Jessica
And then you can elaborate from there to different ways to make it more efficient from if you're doing like a raised bed, you can incorporate square foot gardening.
00:11:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:11:35
Plant People
Hmm.
00:11:36
Brett
and
00:11:39
Jessica
You can, you know, you know, part of that plan figuring out also like, am I just going to grow stuff in the spring?
00:11:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:11:48
Jessica
but I want something that's going to last all summer or fall?
00:11:50
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:51
Jessica
Do I want to put all the time and energy into producing um that tomato plant? Ray made a very good comment earlier about what the, um the hundred dollar tomato plant, right.
00:12:05
Jessica
All the time, all the time and energy you put into it and inputs to get, you know, maybe a couple of
00:12:09
Alexis
To save a dollar at the grocery store.
00:12:11
Jessica
Save a dollar at the grocery store.
00:12:11
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:12
Jessica
So that's where I start with.
00:12:14
Brett
Yeah, I think, I think so that the theme that I'm kind of getting from this is you're going to, if you're choosing that you're going to do the garden and you're going to invest the time, you're going to invest the energy, et cetera, setting up the plants and yourself to have success with the things that you are investing in is better than doing way too many things that you aren't prepared to invest in or aren't going to use. And so it's about this kind of Steady yourself up for success translates to less wasted money and wasted time and anguish and all these other things.
00:12:44
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:47
Brett
I think another, another piece of that too, that I have seen is like being realistic about the amount of space that you have. ah and And you said this kind of with, you know, we're living in an apartment, but even like if you have 10 by 10 square in your yard that you want to commit to the garden,
00:13:05
Brett
You are not helping yourself by jam packing it so tight with plants that are when they're little tiny things. And then it becomes this abomination of a garden that you can't even get into harvest.
00:13:15
Jessica
Thank you.
00:13:18
Brett
Everything's diseased, overlapping each other.
00:13:18
Alexis
What?
00:13:20
Brett
It's just, it's suffocating each other. And so you ended up, spending bunch of money on plants and you maybe could have had two or three, you know, a pepper plant, a tomato plant and a row of onions in that space.
00:13:31
Brett
That would have been ah much more, you know, useful, like you're actually going to get those things out you're going to grow them and you're going to feel good about it. It's also easier to weed and take care of and all that kind of stuff. so that's kind of the, what I'm hearing you say, do you all make plans for your, for your gardens?
00:13:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:48
Alexis
Making plans and then there's like the care for the the plant.
00:13:48
Plant People
Go ahead.
00:13:53
Alexis
So I think what we've talked about so far is like the physical space, the amount of space. But then there's like the second tier of like, how are you going to water it?
00:13:58
Brett
so
00:14:02
Alexis
How are you trellis it? And I say that from like a, you know, I think of the plants that i have not gotten that I did not trellis in time.
00:14:12
Alexis
And so therefore they're like floppy, they make mad when I want to harvest them, they're not high quality. um And so there's, just, I just can't deal with it.
00:14:18
Jessica
Thank you.
00:14:22
Alexis
So I just don't, I you know, and to what you're saying, like the disease and all these other issues that come with it. That's like the secondary step of the plan. There's the physical space. What can I fit here? What makes sense?
00:14:33
Alexis
What do I like? And then there's, okay, is there anything special? Do I need a tomato cage? Do I need some netting? Do I need,
Container Gardening: Pros and Cons
00:14:40
Alexis
you know, um to have some bird netting or, you know, whatever?
00:14:44
Alexis
Do I have a hose that reaches the space? That kind of stuff is also important because when you're watering those containers, you know, four times a day because you didn't put the, you put too many plants in a pot.
00:14:48
Jessica
And bring bring up
00:14:51
Brett
Thank
00:14:56
Alexis
Yeah.
00:14:56
Plant People
Hmm.
00:14:57
Alexis
It's a little annoying.
00:14:59
Jessica
Yeah, you bring up a good point with that, with like the watering. And I was thinking in my mind too, like with containers, just because sometimes we see online or places that, you know, this tomato plant is thriving in this one little small container.
00:15:12
Jessica
In reality, it might not thrive in that size of a container, right? So that's the other thing, like figuring out, right, then, yep.
00:15:17
Alexis
Yeah. It may have thrived for a week and then it's going to go downhill.
00:15:22
Jessica
So like figuring out like certain plants do better in certain size containers, part of that planning.
00:15:30
Brett
Yeah, I want to talk a little about containers in a second, but I think just to make sure we're connected back we're talking about logistics of gardening, right? This is the basics of how to get set up, and that may feel like what we're talking about here, but the reality is all of us have seen, and maybe someone here, we'll call him Brett, ah has experienced this where you you put out too much or you put stuff out in a bad setup that wasn't logistically well-planned based on the basics that you're laying out.
00:15:56
Brett
And then the whole thing ends up becoming a loss, which is the opposite of gardening on a budget.
00:15:59
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:01
Brett
You have now put out however much money, time, and energy, and then you don't end up with it.
00:16:01
Plant People
Yeah.
00:16:06
Brett
So like as we drift into talking about how to do gardening well, the underpinning of all this is to say, like, we want to make sure that the time, energy, and money is well invested and it yields something. That's just something that I that found out.
00:16:20
Brett
Containers, though. What is the vibe on containers? Because for me, I'm like, oh, a container might make it more manageable, make me more likely to take care of it. can put it right behind my back door or whatever.
00:16:34
Brett
Positives, negatives. what do you all think about that?
00:16:37
Alexis
I love me a container. And by container, I mean the mineral buckets that Jessica has given me, which if you're not permit yeah which if you're not familiar, are about, i don't know, about two foot tall, two maybe two feet in diameter.
00:16:44
Jessica
size Size matters sometimes with.
00:16:54
Alexis
um And so maybe a little less than that. So a pretty large container, aka I can easily grow a tomato plant in one. i tried to put more than one just you know to see if I could.
00:17:03
Plant People
hello
00:17:06
Alexis
Do not recommend. Will I probably do it again because I want to Probably, but I don't recommend But yeah, I think containers...
00:17:13
Brett
um It's like the size of like a short a short garbage can, like what you put up out the street, but it's but shorter.
00:17:16
Plant People
small tub kind of thing yeah
00:17:18
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. I think containers are a really awesome way. As someone who has plenty of in-ground space that I could grow in, I'm choosing to grow my vegetables in containers ah because I just think it's a little bit it's a little bit easier. I can put them right by the water. It makes it a little bit more of an enjoyable experience because I'm not weeding them. um You know, I can see problems with them right away.
00:17:41
Alexis
And ah yeah, I just think it's a little bit more of an enjoyable... It's it's less of a chore and more of like thing I like to do for myself to reward.
00:17:53
Alexis
Mm
00:17:54
Plant People
container The biggest hurdles with containers that I've found working with people is just the sheer, you know, we're talking about cost.
00:17:54
Brett
I like that.
00:18:00
Plant People
And, you know, any cost that we're talking about today, you have to kind of spread that over how many years the useful life of that material, that input is.
00:18:02
Alexis
hmm.
00:18:09
Plant People
It's kind of important, but that also plays into the soil of containers. It's expensive, especially if you're doing primarily a peat-based soil. And it's important to realize that that peat-based media, it doesn't last forever.
00:18:22
Plant People
You have to supplement that. You have to refresh that. You certainly don't throw that out when it does get a bit tired. You can kind of dump it out and remix it with you know and mend that with some organic matter.
00:18:32
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:18:34
Plant People
But that's the number one cost of Input cost for containers is, my goodness, the soil.
00:18:34
Brett
Thank you.
00:18:40
Plant People
And finding a good raised bed mix that works well, you know, across different sizes of containers and raised beds ah sometimes sometimes can be pretty
00:18:41
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
Exploring Raised Beds
00:18:50
Plant People
difficult.
00:18:50
Plant People
And that's the main frustration point that I see people have is the cost of the medium, if you can even find it, the media, the the mix.
00:18:57
Alexis
Yeah. Thinking of the idea of like budget, we're talking about containers that could be, you know raised bed, um which we don't often think of as a container or, you know, what I'm talking about, like a pot type of system.
00:19:09
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:09
Alexis
I've seen a lot of success with the because this is an artificial system, right, where the the soil profile is not working the same way. as it does in ground, right?
00:19:21
Alexis
And so um I've seen people have a lot of success. I've had a lot of success with using some sort of like mulch or large, know, if you have a really deep raised bed, you can use, they call, it's kind of leans back into this thing called hyggeculture, which is, you know, you're starting at the base with some like larger, um,
00:19:33
Jessica
Thank you.
00:19:39
Brett
Thanks.
00:19:41
Alexis
ah not stems, but branches, and then you're slowly reducing your particle size.
00:19:44
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:47
Alexis
So you start out with some larger branches, then you go to some more like something like sticks, and then you go to mulch, and then you have this top, you know, two foot or something of a topsoil mix or a potting soil mix or something like that.
00:20:00
Alexis
And so it's a way to fill your beds on it in a cheaper way. And a lot of the time, if you're, you know in an area where you can have access to, you know, things like this, you know, on the farm or a tree falls down or, you know, something like that.
00:20:15
Alexis
Sometimes you can get mulch for free from the cities. So if you have a really big container where it can be cost prohibitive to do that, you can um modify in a way there.
00:20:26
Alexis
And so, you know, then you're spreading out your inputs instead of you might have to refresh once a, you know, every year we add one bag of compost or topsoil or something.
00:20:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:37
Alexis
So it's just a lot more um ah budget friendly in that way.
00:20:43
Plant People
Some
00:20:43
Brett
Yeah, so we we started the conversation about raised beds. I say we go there fully now because I feel like raised beds are sort of like the most idyllic ah
00:20:56
Brett
Instagram, Pinterest coded, like, oh, the nice little raised bed.
00:20:59
Plant People
of the best and some of the most challenging, some of the absolutely most challenging.
00:21:00
Brett
And yeah. Yeah.
00:21:03
Jessica
Yeah.
00:21:03
Alexis
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:21:03
Brett
Well, so in the, I'll just, one thing I'll note is in the, in the world of commercial horticulture and ah in our former backyard, a raised bed actually doesn't have any sort of frame on it.
00:21:03
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:04
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:16
Brett
It's literally just soil that has been kind of mounded up.
00:21:17
Plant People
amount.
00:21:19
Brett
And so if you see like, ah like out in California, they grow strawberries or cantaloupe or something like that.
00:21:20
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:21:25
Brett
And they literally make these crazy huge mounds that they grow it in. it might be end up being, you know, 10 inches deep. It's kind of wild. um And so there is, there is an option if you're looking to increase drainage, if that's why you're trying to do the the raised bed thing or whatever, to literally just mound up some soil into a pile and plant into the middle of that.
00:21:44
Alexis
Yep.
00:21:46
Brett
ah But if people have in mind the, lovely framed in maybe cedar plank ah raised beds. Do you all have any kind of thoughts about that? I mean, so I, just to give you an example,
00:22:00
Brett
um i have access to some really nice railroad ties that are covered in tar and other carcinogens. And I was just wondering if that would be a good, they're free. And so I was just wondering if that would be a good idea for me to make raised beds out of, or that's a way to save money.
00:22:10
Jessica
yeah
00:22:15
Alexis
So you you can line those with plastic. It's still not recommended because that plastic can rip and you use the word carcinogen. So you kind of gave it away why that is not a good idea to use railroad ties.
00:22:27
Brett
Oh, sorry.
00:22:28
Alexis
But from ah from a visual perspective, you could use that to frame up something that's maybe not as attractive, that is safe to use, maybe some sheet metal or you know some something else.
00:22:39
Jessica
Risky.
00:22:42
Alexis
And then you can put your railroad ties at it. ah Over that, if you're an HOA and you've got to be really aesthetically pleasing, you can also line those railroad ties with a plastic to keep from it.
00:22:53
Alexis
But, you know, plastic, we're dealing with sharp tools on a constant basis, right?
00:22:54
Jessica
risky
00:22:58
Alexis
So lining something with plastic doesn't seem to be super long term, but it is possible.
00:23:05
Brett
So is it is it something where like, is that a situation where you would be better off, you think, to to buy materials? Or it, you know, I have thoughts on seeing seeing good applications for any adaptive reuse of stuff in those contexts?
00:23:18
Brett
Any other non-railroad ties?
00:23:18
Plant People
there's There's everything in the world. ah the the One of the local pizza places right down from where you know um my home is, they've used one of these mobile.
00:23:30
Plant People
It's a kind of a mineral feed bunk, Jessica. It's one of the half bunks that are plastic lined.
00:23:34
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:23:35
Plant People
You can drag them around, and they do a very good job in that. I mean, the possibilities are endless as long as the material itself, source material, is safe and doesn't have any leachates in it.
00:23:45
Plant People
That's a problem.
00:23:45
Jessica
Yeah, I think, you know, we we talk we talk about a lot with like growing veggies and stuff as like, or ah anything can be used as a ah pot, right?
00:23:46
Plant People
Yeah, there's all kinds of things.
00:23:55
Jessica
As long as it can, to a point, right?
00:23:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:23:57
Plant People
Straw bales, straw bales can be a
00:23:58
Jessica
Because we don't want those like those railroad ties like that. But like, as long as it can contain the soil, it has great drainage.
00:24:03
Brett
Thank you.
00:24:05
Jessica
Because if you don't have that good drainage, you're just setting yourself up for a failure. ah But as Ray mentioned, like those cattle feeders like that, or a lot of people I've seen, they use old water troughs, like the the galvanized ones that have are like, they don't might be rusted on the bottom and already have, you know, they're leaking.
00:24:22
Jessica
So another use for them that way.
00:24:23
Plant People
Yeah. Perfect.
00:24:24
Jessica
um Yeah, there's, as you have said too, straw bale gardening, ah that's a whole other, don't know, task, project, lots of other inputs that go into that one, right?
00:24:35
Alexis
Thank you.
00:24:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:24:36
Jessica
A lot of more fertilizer costs that has to go into those, but that is also another option ah for growing for growing your veggies in.
00:24:37
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:24:45
Jessica
And it does well. If you season your bells the correct way, ah plants are happy and you will you will get some good production out of them.
00:24:51
Plant People
I don't necessarily plant in straw bells, but I've used that and it kind of made me think about it when Brett mentioned one of my favorite systems is just mound production because you get the drainage for a crop like home.
00:24:52
Jessica
Yeah.
00:25:02
Plant People
Strawberry is absolutely critical because all the associated root rots, but and you you don't have to have sides on it as long as you adhere to the principles of not walking on the soil constantly. and keeping good, you know, organic matter levels in there.
00:25:14
Plant People
But I've started those mound cultures with straw bell bells, and it started out looking more like a raised bed garden. But as the the straw bells quickly break down and start to decompose, you just sort of incorporate those into the mound.
00:25:24
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:29
Plant People
And what once initially looked like a a raised bed now is more of a mound.
00:25:29
Jessica
you
00:25:35
Plant People
So I've done that, but just year in and year out over the years, the number one problem, I know we're talking about kind of garden economics, does it make sense? But, uh, the number one frustration point, um,
00:25:48
Plant People
for raised bed gardens is just modulating fertilizer. It's a boom and bust cycle.
00:25:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:25:53
Plant People
And we had a a big discussion on a container strawberries last week.
00:25:55
Brett
See
00:25:57
Plant People
Um, met a couple there that were doing them some things commercially. and They were like, well what's your schedule? I'm like, there is no schedule. It's based on the weather you're planning in an artificial medium. That's heart heavy artificial social media.
00:26:09
Plant People
Um, it's not mineral based soil. Uh, I guess ah what I'm trying to say there has no nutrient holding capacity. And instead of using granular fertilizer a couple times a year, year like you would in in-ground strawberry production, my goodness, you're fertilizing every two weeks, you know, twice as much, 10 times as much.
00:26:28
Plant People
but And I've done petio analysis, you know, to see how, you know, raised beds react with fertilizer inputs. And I've never gotten a consistent analysis of plant tissue because it's all over the board.
00:26:42
Plant People
It's just boom and bust. So nutrient management's incredibly difficult on raised beds. It can be done, but it's You know, that's one of the differences that can add a frustration point, but also can take a little bit more time and add a little bit more inputs.
00:26:56
Plant People
That's why I say kind of raised beds are sort of a boom or bust. It seems like sometimes I love, or I love raised beds.
00:27:00
Brett
Yeah.
00:27:02
Plant People
I love containers, but there's just some considerations you have to, you have to make up front. It's a completely different ball game than if you were planting, you know, in native soil, mineral-based soil, just completely different.
00:27:15
Brett
Yeah, and so like if you're, for instance, if you were gonna plant a tomato in a raised bed, comparing to planting it in the ground.
Using Native Soil in Gardening
00:27:22
Brett
Maybe you till up your soil, you add some fertilizer at the beginning when you're working in the ground and the tomato's fine for the whole season actually, because you have nice clay soil, it's holding onto those nutrients and, you know, it probably would have been benefited from fertilizer a little bit later, but it does okay.
00:27:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:31
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:27:35
Plant People
Golf ball stage, yeah.
00:27:36
Brett
And if you try that same thing and sometimes in a raised bed, it's your, by the time it gets to being big and having leaves and putting on fruit, it's, it's hurting for some, for some nutrition.
00:27:39
Jessica
you
00:27:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:47
Brett
And, yeah,
00:27:48
Brett
Yeah, that can be that's a challenge. I think of any any anytime anytime you move away from this magical thing we call the soil, ah you have to take on some of those responsibilities that the soil was taken care of for you.
00:27:55
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:58
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:01
Brett
So i mean, that's a nice transition to do I have to grow in a raised bed with how grandma used to just dig a hole and put it in the ground?
00:28:09
Plant People
Goodness, I would tell people that if you can plant in the soil, I know Alexis plants in containers for very you know specific reasons, and there's reasons you would do that. That's the number one money-saving thing and frustration thing you can do, that if you have tillable soil, Jessica mentioned it, the number one thing you can do is use the resource that you have on hand. If you have good land resources, there is no replacing that. If you have good tillable soil, take advantage of that. There's some real benefits, cost-saving benefits, and frustration-saving benefits to using your native soil. It's the best resource you have.
00:28:45
Alexis
Can I interject? You cannot take native soil and put it in raised beds or containers.
00:28:51
Plant People
If you want concrete, you can, Alexis.
00:28:51
Alexis
It does not...
00:28:53
Plant People
It will make...
00:28:53
Alexis
boom, nailed it.
00:28:54
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:55
Alexis
It does not work the same because I can hear some of you all going, whoa, why wouldn't I just mix the best of both worlds?
00:28:56
Plant People
Yeah Yeah
00:29:01
Alexis
Unfortunately, that is not how that works. So just gonna nip that in the bud right here.
00:29:04
Plant People
Yeah
00:29:07
Plant People
yeah
00:29:08
Brett
And then can you just, you see, i know you all said concrete. ah I've never, not tried growing in concrete, so I assume that's bad, but can you just say why, a little bit of like why that, why it doesn't work?
00:29:19
Plant People
of
00:29:19
Alexis
One of the reasons you're is you're disrupting the soil profiles, right? So we've talked before about soil. Soil has layers and we, you know, we'll say topsoil. That's literally it's on top of the soil is often the heaviest nutrient base.
00:29:33
Alexis
And then, you know, you kind of go down. So if you dig that up, you're not going be able to like, you know, pull out this perfect little slice of lasagna and plop it down into your garden, right?
00:29:39
Brett
Thank you.
00:29:43
Alexis
You're going be digging it up and mixing it all together. um that makes your microbes not in a good order. It makes all of your particles not mix up well together. and they They are accustomed to being at certain levels in in the soil profile.
00:29:58
Alexis
So that's one reason. And those mixing together can cause your clay to clump up and become really hard and and just ah be really difficult to grow in.
00:30:10
Alexis
So just a lot of lot of reasons, yeah
00:30:12
Jessica
And not even accounting for all the weed seed you've introduced as well.
00:30:13
Brett
Thank you.
00:30:16
Alexis
Ooh, yeah. Good point, Jess.
00:30:17
Jessica
That's what I always think about. i've A project once we had with another group that they had already built the raised beds and they had somebody who was generous to donate the soil. um Do you know what we grew in those raised beds?
00:30:29
Jessica
We grew Johnson grass.
00:30:30
Alexis
Ragweed.
00:30:31
Jessica
Yeah.
00:30:32
Plant People
Well, Ragweed too, yeah, and Johnson, greg both both terrible.
00:30:33
Jessica
Yeah, it was it was a horrible battle of the, you know, and that usually that's that's a quick way to you know, when people are debating, I don't really want to par purchase, you know, soil to fill in raised beds.
00:30:49
Jessica
And then if you're quickly to be like, hey, you're just going to be doing just as much weeding in that case, that usually gets them like, oh, OK, yeah, yeah.
00:30:54
Alexis
Right. Right. For years and years. Yeah.
00:30:58
Plant People
We talk a lot about soil solarizing and prep work. If you know you're going to have a larger home garden and your or you're changing locations, is a year before you plant, and it's not always possible, but if you have the time and the resources and the land you know to do so, is that year before you plant your weed control starts then a year before.
00:31:20
Plant People
With solarization, which, you know, we have programs just on soil solarizing, ah you know, those six to eight weeks in the process there. Or if you're using whatever, double till and you're, you know, trying to extinguish the seedbed or at least deplete a little bit.
00:31:29
Brett
so
00:31:33
Plant People
There's all this work you can do before you you actually plant a new area or plant in ground. But prep work is real important and we don't think a lot about that. And that's 12 to 18 months before you actually plant.
00:31:44
Plant People
You certainly don't have to have that kind of lead time. I don't want to discourage anyone. I'm just saying, like Jessica is saying, and Alexis is, there's always a seed bed in Kentucky and everywhere as you go. And when you start to till in the soil, you expose, you know, weed seeds to air and water and sunlight, and they germinate.
00:32:02
Plant People
So you can head off a lot of those problems if you prep.
00:32:03
Alexis
that kind of yeah that like heading off problems also like takes you down the path of uh you know buying something quality up front is going to save you money in the long run
Investing in Quality Tools and Inputs
00:32:17
Alexis
and so uh we've all we've all been in the a position doesn't matter what it is where you're like ah
00:32:17
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:32:20
Brett
Thank you.
00:32:22
Alexis
i'm gonna buy this cheaper thing and then it breaks in a year and then you've got to buy it it again and if you had bought the more expensive thing up front, it would have been cheaper, right? And so there, of course, is always a balance to that.
00:32:34
Alexis
It helps if you know somebody who has used those tools or has done something similar, you know, you can get some opinions in that for sure. So if you had got questions on you know, specific tools or something like that, please feel free to reach out.
00:32:47
Alexis
We've all worked on a lot of different stuff, but ah you know, whether that's tools or, you know, planning and saying, I'm going to, I'm going to spend some money on quality soil or quality media for my pot so that I'm not spending as much on fertilizer or I'm not having to weed my beds it can be really the the right thing to do upfront.
00:32:50
Jessica
Thank you.
00:32:56
Brett
Thank you.
00:32:58
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:33:10
Alexis
if you've If you've got the money to do it upfront.
00:33:13
Jessica
Alexis, that also brings up a good point of i thought I thought you were going with purchasing quality transplants and then you were like tools.
00:33:19
Alexis
I mean, yeah, totally.
00:33:20
Jessica
and so But I was in my mind, I was like, oh, she's going to mention ah buying quality transplants, right? Like it might be a little more expensive versus that clearance one.
00:33:30
Jessica
But that clearance one might already have something majorly wrong with it.
00:33:31
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:34
Alexis
Clearance for a reason.
00:33:35
Jessica
Yeah. Right. It, it could be there just because wherever you're buying it, maybe they don't water that great. Right. And it's a little crispy, but it could also have other major issues. That's just going to cost you more in the long run.
00:33:47
Jessica
So like buying good quality, healthy transplants, um, investing in those or Yeah.
00:33:52
Alexis
Less sprays, less fertilizer. Yeah.
00:33:54
Jessica
yeah Or seeds too. Like talking about seeds, you know, you can,
00:34:00
Alexis
Stop buying them from Etsy.
00:34:02
Jessica
Right. And yeah. And don't buy them because they Amazon don't buy them off Amazon too. So many people get them from like weird, weird places.
00:34:06
Alexis
Yeah, stop buying them.
00:34:10
Jessica
Buy them from a legit seed company. um You know.
00:34:14
Brett
Or sometimes your local extension office will have either a seed swap or a seed giveaway or or even transplant.
00:34:15
Alexis
Or a seed swap.
00:34:18
Jessica
Oh yeah. We got seed packets.
00:34:23
Brett
Jessica, you mentioned that there there are sometimes local high schools will have a greenhouse and their FFA.
00:34:28
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:29
Brett
You could say what that looks like.
00:34:31
Jessica
Yeah, ah I'd encourage everyone to check out like your local high schools if they have a greenhouse class in them. I know in our county, we have we have two high schools and both of them have greenhouses and their goal is they're learning they're learning all these horticultural practices, but they're also growing ah not only flowers, but a lot of vegetable transplants that they sell in the spring.
00:34:41
Alexis
do.
00:34:47
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:34:51
Alexis
Veg.
00:34:54
Jessica
And then the funds that they get from those goes back to the classroom for the following year, right? So they can do other projects and horticulture wise. But, you know, that's another good option of a more reasonable price often.
00:35:08
Brett
you
00:35:09
Jessica
ah It's like tomato plants or vegetable plants that you're looking for.
00:35:10
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:35:12
Jessica
And then, you know, your money is going back towards, you know, those students as well. Same thing with farmers markets. A lot of farmers, what they end up doing, there's some that just grow plants to sell at market, but I know a lot of other ones are growing them for themselves, right?
00:35:27
Jessica
So they're already growing like these more unique varieties. Often they're investing in disease resistant varieties, things like that. And then when they have their surplus of plants, sometimes they bring those to the market to sell, right?
00:35:40
Jessica
Because they don't need any extra ones. And so sometimes you can find some really great, healthy transplants that it might be a unique variety. And as I mentioned, disease resistant kind of varieties that you might not just be able, you might not purchase as a homeowner, right?
00:35:53
Jessica
You wouldn't pay, you wouldn't want to pay that amount for that seed, right? Or they're selling those seeds.
00:35:57
Alexis
You don't need 500 seeds, right?
00:35:59
Jessica
Yes. Yeah.
00:35:59
Alexis
You need three plants and it's cheaper to buy three plants and 500 seeds.
00:36:00
Jessica
They're like 500, right? Exactly.
00:36:03
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:04
Plant People
la
00:36:05
Jessica
And then also just share seeds too. Go in, go in with people.
00:36:08
Plant People
Seed swaps, plant swaps, yeah.
00:36:09
Brett
Well, this is an interesting, it opens us up to a little bit of, i think something where where we we might be a little bit of a house divided on
Seeds vs. Transplants: What's Better?
00:36:16
Brett
this topic. So feel free to lash out at each other here.
00:36:19
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:22
Brett
Starting seeds versus buying transplants. Budget.
00:36:27
Plant People
Transplants are expensive. I'll be a team start your own, but i don't think you should do it if you have tried in the past and it's a point of frustration or if you obviously have no interest. But if you have a strong interest, starting seeds can be cheap. um I guess a case in point for me is i see a local, I've worked with a local community organization at a retirement facility. The last five or six years, they have, you had this beautiful, amazing community courtyard garden, a large planting, and they've they produced every single transplant in little random containers in a sunny window, in a sunny window with very little input.
00:37:08
Brett
Thank
00:37:10
Plant People
they ah and and if If they were to purchase those transplants on an annual basis, It would have been, i don't know, $1,500, $2,000. But it's incredible what they've done with almost no experience.
00:37:21
Plant People
But they you know we've had some discussions with them. And that we always have master gardeners working with this group. So they have good, solid growing knowledge. And they have sunlight. And they have little cups, ah containers that they put in.
00:37:33
Plant People
And they stick to the basics of you know tomatoes. and peppers, things that are easy to germinate and grow. They do some flowers, but as Alexis and Jessica and Brett can tell you, some flowers are highly specialized.
00:37:45
Plant People
They have to go through special processes. They don't grow any of those. They grow things that are easy to germinate and grow, annual flowers and veggie transplants. So just watching that group just amazes me what they accomplish.
00:37:54
Jessica
Thank
00:37:59
Plant People
With you know very low tech, they have ah they have a warm windowsill that runs the length of their community room. They grow hundreds of transplants. It's not a frustrating process to them. Now, sometimes if the weather's not great or if they start their plants, we...
00:38:14
Plant People
really caution them about starting too early because then they get leggy. But for the most part, they turn their transplants and sometimes they'll get a little tall if they have to delay planting. They do a good job and they save a ton of money and they have this beautiful garden. And, you know, there's some other in value to them with getting the residents involved.
00:38:31
Plant People
But I watch groups like that grow these good quality transplants that aren't always the most perfect stocky looking transplants like you would find in a greenhouse operation. So that just kind of solidifies my opinion that, you know, the average homeowner, if they have a little bit of ingenuity,
00:38:48
Plant People
um You know, they they they can grow their own transplants. And I see transplants as an input cost over the years. I remember buying bundles of bare root tomato plants, you know, and we get those for four or five dollars, 25 to 50 tomato plants, three, three fifty four dollars.
00:39:05
Plant People
That's not the case. Now you get a little six pack and that's what if you go to a garden center, you know, six, eight bucks or whatever, which, you know, things have you know increased in price.
00:39:16
Plant People
But I'll be team transplanting. And I know.
00:39:18
Brett
Well, one thing I'll i'll remind everybody, there there are some things that...
00:39:19
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:23
Brett
i mean, there's nothing that you have to start from a transplant. There's some things you'd be crazy to not start from a transplant. ah And there's other things where you have the option. And there's other things that actually don't like to be transplanted at all.
00:39:33
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:36
Plant People
No.
00:39:36
Brett
And so if you are going to go super budget, put a seed in the ground, you know, cut out the transplant.
00:39:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:41
Alexis
Yeah.
00:39:41
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:42
Brett
You don't have to buy media.
00:39:42
Plant People
Don't do a cucumber transplant.
00:39:43
Brett
You don't have to.
00:39:44
Plant People
not good.
00:39:44
Brett
do Yeah.
00:39:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:45
Alexis
Yeah.
00:39:45
Brett
Yeah.
00:39:45
Brett
Cucumber.
00:39:46
Alexis
rule of thumb yeah they Rule of thumb, the bigger the seed is, the easier it is to start.
00:39:46
Brett
Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:50
Alexis
And the the bigger it is, the more likely you can put it directly into the ground.
00:39:51
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:54
Alexis
um
00:39:55
Plant People
Some things are real fragile, like all the cucurbits.
00:39:56
Alexis
Except for, yeah, like lettuce or something.
00:39:58
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:00
Brett
Beans, ah corn, peas, those are all good options for putting straight in the ground.
00:40:04
Plant People
Direct. So yeah.
00:40:06
Brett
And Alexis just mentioned things like lettuce, some, you know, lettuces and and even kales and stuff like that.
00:40:11
Alexis
Carrots.
00:40:12
Brett
You can, you could throw out some seeds and see how it goes. Sometimes you'll see commercial operations will still do transplants of things like watermelons or or cucumbers or whatever.
00:40:15
Jessica
Thank you.
00:40:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:40:22
Brett
It's just because they're trying to you know enhance the odds that they're going to have a full field. But if you're, you know, the the real common thing people will do, for instance, with with cucumbers is they'll make a mound, kind of like what Ray was talking about. And in the center of the mound, to drop a couple of seeds. ah And if they all germinate, great. If you decide they all germinated and I don't want that many, you could just pull one out, thin it, and it's cost yeah you know less than a penny to have that extra option. so i think But if we are going to start transplants, who would like to take the opposite tack and say, if you're maybe be cautious about transplants?
00:40:59
Alexis
I do i do boths Yeah, go ahead Jess.
00:41:01
Jessica
I was going to say, but i yeah, both as well, but you want to go or me?
00:41:03
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:41:04
Alexis
You good?
00:41:06
Jessica
I was just to say it again depends on your location.
00:41:08
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:41:09
Jessica
As Ray was talking, I was thinking about the house that I used to live in I could not start transplants in that house unless I invested in a grow light, right? So there's another cost, but eventually would it pay, you know, if I kept doing it, it'd probably pay itself off.
00:41:22
Jessica
Or if I have house plants, you know, could use it multiple ways.
00:41:24
Plant People
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:41:25
Jessica
Yeah. But it all depends on your location. um am my current house or like my office here, I have great light that I could easily start transplants with just, you know, being by a nice sunny window. So I think that's what you really got to think into Cause I'm, I'm,
00:41:42
Jessica
for both. I'm for starting your own for sure. And then also just, um, I think knowing your limitations, uh, and then how much you want to, you know, put into it because I've seen so many people who get so excited, they get discouraged, I guess, because they start them and then they get really leggy and then they don't, they don't really, they don't really do well.
00:41:45
Brett
Thank you.
00:41:57
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:41:59
Plant People
Yeah. You don't want, yeah, you don't want a bad experience. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:42:04
Jessica
So I think that's, you know, if you do have a nice bright window, a good location for it, then you totally should. try it, you know?
00:42:12
Plant People
Well, and you mentioned, Jessica, what if you have a program that, you know, sells very affordable, high quality transplants and it just happens to be a learning greenhouse, like at a high school program or whatever. And that plays in your mind, too.
00:42:24
Plant People
My goodness, if every community had, you know, access to that kind of program, it may say, hey, we're going to support that program instead of growing our own. So, yeah, that may, you know, kind of affect your opinion in the end.
00:42:35
Alexis
give yourself permission to not do it you'll be like you know what mm-hmm
00:42:37
Plant People
Yeah, I like that. Alexis, you had permission for me not to have to fool with it. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
00:42:44
Brett
I think another thing too is if there are particular varieties that you wanted to grow, you're probably not going to be find some of those weird things unless you ask someone to grow to grow stuff for you.
00:42:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:48
Alexis
mm-hmm
00:42:50
Plant People
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:42:50
Jessica
Right.
00:42:53
Brett
And and but and the other thing, i think another thing that Ray touched on was the the I word of interest.
00:42:53
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:00
Brett
Uh, and it goes back to why is it, are you interested in starting your own plants? Is it going to give you something to do and think about and play around with while you're hanging out inside, waiting for stuff outside to
Preserving Produce and Saving Money
00:43:10
Brett
grow?
00:43:10
Brett
If you're interested in it and you want to do it and you want that to be part of your sort of your hobby, then the economic efficiency is less of a, less of a consideration. I think, um, then if you want, I am hanging my hopes on having a pepper plant, a tomato plant and some onions in that garden patch that I'm growing.
00:43:25
Jessica
Thank you.
00:43:29
Brett
I'm going to let a professional get me on the path to getting that one single plant.
00:43:32
Plant People
Sure.
00:43:34
Brett
But if I was going to start 50 plants or 100 plants, then it starts to become a little bit more of a challenge to kind of like, okay, that's going to be pretty pricey for the transplants.
00:43:44
Brett
But as someone who this year, for the first time in a long time, is outsourcing some of our transplants starting to Alexis,
00:43:56
Brett
I'll say this. it is It is relatively cheap to seed trays, Ray, but it is not cheap in emotion, time, investment, energy, everything else.
00:44:06
Plant People
okay
00:44:08
Brett
And and the thing that that Jessica said, too, about the space, I think, is...
00:44:12
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:12
Brett
absolutely key so we have a space that's really sunny but that section is not conditioned or heated and so i can have heat mats i can do that but it was when we get the inevitable cold snap in march april it gets cold out there and sometimes we lose a bunch of transplants and then i'm mad uh and so
00:44:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:25
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:44:32
Plant People
It's a, I mean, there there's a million different ways you can be frustrated growing transplants. And there's a a lot of ways that, you know, it could be very satisfying. I've done them both. I've been very upset with leggy plants when someone at the office turns the heat up at night, 74 degrees when it should be 64.
00:44:41
Brett
it
00:44:46
Plant People
I'm like, why are my plants getting leggy? And then I find out the cleaning crew has been really keeping it warm day and night. And I'm like, no, I don't want, but yeah, there's that
00:44:55
Brett
Don't you know we're growing transplants here?
00:44:57
Plant People
Yeah, I'm like, come on, it's supposed to be 64. They're like, we have groups in there. I'm like, turn it down. Yeah, so there's, it I mean, you yeah, you can't always get the the perfect ah growing conditions.
00:45:03
Brett
They can shiver.
00:45:08
Plant People
That's a great point. But, you know, one thing we, I don't think we've touched on as I'm looking at the time here on our episode, ah you know, growing up, we put, I don't know, my ah family would, you know, can three to 400 cans.
00:45:21
Plant People
preserve, you know, whatever we grew in the garden. And that was the number one cost saving thing that we realized doesn't have anything do with growing. And I believe you need to make that consideration up front.
00:45:30
Brett
Thank
00:45:30
Plant People
You have to plan to not be frustrated by your success. Home gardens can be so incredibly productive that it can bring you to the point of frustration. You're like, these tomatoes won't stop growing. Why do i have so many tomatoes or so many green beans?
00:45:45
Plant People
But I believe if you plan on, you know, a preservation plan, one of the greatest things you can do is gardens are very productive annuals for the most part. There are some perennials like asparagus and things like that that we grow. But for the most part, we're talking about annual plantings.
00:46:01
Plant People
that have the capability to be so one pack of seeds, you know, tomato seeds or green bean that's direct. So can be so incredibly productive that you're going be like, oh, I can't consume these fresh fast enough if you over plant.
00:46:14
Plant People
So I think you have to make that decision when you put your garden out or before you do, when you're thinking about quantities and your space that you have, are you going to consume this stuff fresh or are you going to involve yourself in a totally different process that may or may not be your jam?
00:46:23
Brett
Ayo.
00:46:30
Plant People
No pun intended. Uh, it, uh, you know, or ah how much you're going to be involved in food preservation, but that's how my family, um, really saved a lot of money was involving themselves like all in on preservation. And that was ah something that my mom kind of stressed early on. She goes, no, we, we will eat all that we can eat fresh. But the real thing is, you know, you'd start washing those Mason jars like a month in advance. We'd have jar washing parties. Um,
00:46:55
Plant People
but But make that consideration, fresh consumption versus preservation. that's a big That can be a big point that can save you a lot of money and save you some frustration of, you know, once again, having such a bounty, you can't consume it all fresh. So I don't want any of that to go to waste. i think that's an important consideration.
00:47:13
Jessica
And
Motivations for Gardening and Supporting Local Farmers
00:47:14
Brett
Yeah.
00:47:14
Jessica
it's fantastic to be able to have fresh, well, frozen, but fresh sweet corn, like right now, right?
00:47:19
Plant People
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:47:21
Jessica
Or to have some of those other products.
00:47:21
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:47:23
Jessica
And they're like they're great. They're better than what you're getting at the store frozen, you know, but then it just gets you more excited for actual growing season to get it actually really fresh.
00:47:33
Jessica
Yeah.
00:47:33
Plant People
Yeah, who is her freezing, canning, or whatever. Yeah, good products, yeah. Hmm.
00:47:37
Brett
You are youll are hitting a little bit of a nerve for me actually here ah because think one of the things that I hear you all saying, the things that I hear you all saying, I hear, wow, that is a lot of time.
00:47:41
Plant People
Hmm.
00:47:55
Brett
set up to pack the jars, to wash the jars, to wash the jars, ideally wash them, then pack them, wash the jars, pack the jars, let it go, get multiple canners going, et cetera.
00:48:02
Alexis
Thank you.
00:48:07
Brett
And that, that has a lot of value. It's really cool. But a couple years ago, Annie and I had, Annie's my, uh, wife and co-gardener. Um, we had to have a pretty,
00:48:18
Brett
frank conversation because we had kind of lost the joy of doing annual vegetable production.
00:48:25
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:48:26
Brett
ah And granted, we did not do the things that we said would go small. We you know we were going big. And it came to this point where we, i felt, I'll speak for myself, I felt like there's almost this like identity thing where people knew that that was a thing that I did.
00:48:41
Brett
and I felt like I supposed to do that or had to keep doing that in order to retain this sense of participating in the local food economy or whatever. And we would can, we can probably 150 jars of, of tomatoes that we use throughout the course of the year.
00:48:54
Plant People
Oh, wow.
00:48:56
Brett
And, and we did dry storage on 150 plus um butternuts that we had throughout the year.
00:48:56
Plant People
That's a lot of tomatoes.
00:49:03
Brett
I mean, and this was just in our backyard in Lexington. And we came to a point where it's like we aren't – we are at a different point in our lives. ah Time is something that we don't have a whole lot of.
00:49:15
Brett
And so we had to kind of make a decision. i think that's one of those things. That's asked why why you do it. um And we weren't doing it for good reasons anymore. And so we we changed that. And I think – you have to sort of think about how much time do you have?
00:49:29
Brett
and And there's times in my life where I didn't have any money and I had all I had was time. And I did, I spent my time more than I spent my money. And it's a different, you know, things change.
00:49:39
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:49:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:49:42
Brett
And and so I think one of the reasons speaking again from personal transition is, I think a bad reason to garden is because you feel like you're supposed to because of some sort of identity or some sort of like, this is what people do or this is what people need to do. And that there are a lot of people out there in this local food world, in this farm world that are growing food for you and your family to eat.
00:50:08
Brett
And it's totally chill to go and and buy that stuff from them and spend your time doing what you want to do. And maybe that looks like I'm going to have some trees and have a nice lawn and spend time outside out in the backyard instead of having any garden.
00:50:15
Plant People
Oh
00:50:22
Brett
I'm going to do that instead.
00:50:23
Plant People
so yeah.
00:50:24
Brett
And that's just something that like you, mean you all.
00:50:24
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:50:26
Alexis
Those farmers would thank you for that.
00:50:28
Brett
yeah totally.
00:50:28
Jessica
Yes.
00:50:29
Brett
Yeah. and And I think, again, there there is there's a whole so spectrum of sizes and scales. And does it make you appreciate how hard it is to grow tomatoes so that you're more willing to go and buy some tomatoes from people who are working hard to do it? I think absolutely it does. I think sometimes gardening is the biggest boon to supporting local local producers because you realize the difficulty of that. But yeah.
00:50:54
Brett
Yeah, I think, and I think if there's, if you're, if you're getting joy from it, or if there's a real strong economic incentive or any of those reasons, it's really great to grow the, grow your stuff and and can it. But if you don't, if you're not in that position, there's a whole there's space for you to fit in and to not have to spend a whole ton of money to do it.
00:51:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:51:12
Brett
i think that's one of the main takeaways we want from this episode.
00:51:12
Plant People
Yeah. There's all kinds of cons.
00:51:18
Brett
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:20
Plant People
Yeah, we're just lucky. I guess knowing your local food web, your local food situation, you know, if you make a choice to buy, you know, really super local in-season stuff, is getting to know, like you all have alluded to today, is getting to know your local neighborhood, your local community, your local county, whatever unit you're looking at, is get to know the people that grow and do things, whether or not you want to, you know,
00:51:22
Brett
Thank you.
00:51:44
Plant People
grow and preserve your own food, or if you want to purchase local transplant, just knowing those vendors ah is, you know, can help you make informed decisions and, and set up a situation that works for you and your family with all the inputs.
00:51:58
Brett
Yeah.
00:52:00
Plant People
So, yeah
00:52:00
Brett
By all means, please do go forth and grow a garden because it's one of the best.
00:52:03
Plant People
yes.
00:52:04
Brett
This is one of the best.
Resources and Final Encouragement
00:52:06
Alexis
if you If you do want to garden, we've talked predominantly about food here, but we all know Alexis can't leave without flowers.
00:52:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:12
Alexis
Flowers are gardening.
00:52:13
Plant People
I was waiting for it.
00:52:13
Alexis
you can totally You can totally grow flowers.
00:52:14
Plant People
waiting for it.
00:52:16
Alexis
There's lots that you can grow there, but we have some from you know jumping back.
00:52:20
Jessica
Thank
00:52:21
Alexis
into veg gardening that would also have some really good resources if you're wanting to grow you know flowers or herbs and some things along those lines there's some really good resources that the university of kentucky has if you're in kentucky i think that probably an extension service in your state has something similar but uh one we call it the the bible of kentucky vegetable gardening id 128 which is kentucky vegetable gardening
00:52:28
Brett
Thank you.
00:52:46
Alexis
ah You can look that up. You can find it on the horticulture website at UK. We'll drop a link in the show notes for that. But we look at it all the time. I look at it all the time just for some resources.
00:52:59
Alexis
You know, if you don't know how much soil it takes, how many cubic feet of soil it takes to put in a raised bed or how many tomatoes you can put in a pot or what size pot you need for basil, it's got some good information in there.
00:52:59
Jessica
you
00:53:12
Alexis
And so it's just really excellent. It's free online. If you go to your local extension office, they should have a copy. if you If you're a person who likes a paper copy, you can get a paper copy from them as well.
00:53:25
Alexis
ah So if that's of interest of you, please go find that. And we've got some resources for flowers. And if you need help on you know something, can you use certain types of containers or you're like, why can't I use railroad ties or don't use black tires for your raised bed gardens unless you like snakes.
00:53:45
Alexis
So if you if you need any help going in those areas, please feel free to reach out. You can shoot us an email and that email goes to all four of us all the same time.
00:53:49
Jessica
you
00:53:53
Alexis
And so we'll make sure that your answer is delivered promptly. And if you've got any other thoughts, ideas, please feel free to reach out. Follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast and join us for next time. We were glad you're here.
00:54:08
Alexis
Have a great one.