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The Business of Christmas Trees in Kentucky
31 Plays1 hour ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, we are joined by Kenney Gulley of the Kentucky Christmas Tree Association to discuss Christmas tree production in Kentucky. Kenney shares how he and his wife started a small Christmas tree farm near Mount Sterling as a way to make productive use of their land while fitting farming into their busy schedules.
The conversation covers the basics of growing Christmas trees, including species selection, planting seedlings, and the seven- to eight-year timeline required to produce a marketable tree. Kenney also talks about the challenges growers face, from labor demands and drought to choosing species that match their soil and climate.
This conversation also highlights the importance of the Kentucky Christmas Tree Association, which provides education, mentorship, and support for both new and experienced growers. Beyond production, the episode explores how Christmas tree farms create meaningful holiday traditions and community connections for families who visit each year.
Kentucky Christmas Tree Association
National Christmas Tree Association
University of Kentucky Extension Service Christmas Tree Resources
Kentucky Christmas Tree Production Workbook
Tennessee Christmas Tree Production Manual
Christmas Trees, Center for Crop Diversification
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest's Surprise
00:00:17
Alexis
All right, coming in hot with a question for you guys today.
00:00:19
Plant People
Oh man, I know just straight out, just straight out.
00:00:20
Jessica
You were prepared.
00:00:23
Alexis
Straight out the gate. That's the way we do things around here.
00:00:24
Brett
Well, before you do, I'll just acknowledge we're joined by a guest here today.
00:00:26
Plant People
but
00:00:28
Brett
Kenny from the the Kentucky Christmas Tree Association does not know what he's in for, but he's about to find that out.
00:00:33
Plant People
No.
00:00:34
Alexis
it's a good It's a good, easy question. I'm going to lob something nice to all of you.
00:00:36
Brett
Okay, okay.
00:00:38
Alexis
Yeah, yeah guys, come on.
00:00:38
Plant People
Oh, for a change.
00:00:39
Alexis
Come on.
00:00:40
Plant People
Okay.
00:00:40
Brett
Turning over a new
00:00:40
Plant People
Okay.
Winter Activities Discussion
00:00:41
Alexis
cheese and You all act like I'm...
00:00:41
Brett
leaf?
00:00:41
Jessica
Not putting us on the spot.
00:00:41
Brett
Yeah.
00:00:43
Alexis
I was just going to ask you with the recent little a break from winter that we've had, what is your like first thing that you do, your favorite thing that you do when you get that little, you know, 60 degrees in winter time?
00:00:59
Plant People
Hmm.
00:00:59
Alexis
Like, what you what do you got? Come on, guys.
00:01:04
Plant People
Gosh, if you were a young kid, you'd say touch grass, but I don't know.
00:01:05
Jessica
I
00:01:07
Plant People
who
00:01:09
Jessica
talk myself out of planting things doing, cause I like, cause I totally did like this last week. I was like, I mean, my kids go outside anyways, even in the cold all the time, but like we really went outside all day. And then I was just like, Oh, I want to dig and plant and this and that and do all these things. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah.
00:01:30
Jessica
It's February.
00:01:31
Alexis
It's February.
00:01:31
Jessica
And my, and my, yeah.
00:01:31
Plant People
Maybe a little early, maybe a little early.
00:01:32
Jessica
yeah And my son was like, it's spring.
00:01:34
Alexis
Oops.
00:01:34
Jessica
And I was like, no, baby, it is, it's winter. And he was like, but it's, but it's spring.
00:01:39
Jessica
And I was like, no, no. And then it snowed. So he's learning.
00:01:39
Alexis
Warm.
00:01:44
Plant People
like, my mom is a genius. She knew into that or you're going get blamed for bringing back.
00:01:47
Jessica
I know have these amazing powers.
00:01:49
Plant People
ah Yeah. You're, you're going to get blamed for bringing back on the winter, Jessica. It's all on you.
00:01:53
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:54
Plant People
It's on you.
00:01:54
Jessica
Thank you.
00:01:55
Plant People
You took spring away. so yeah.
00:01:57
Jessica
did.
00:01:58
Plant People
Yeah. It
Preparation for Spring Planting
00:01:59
Plant People
seems like we have plan things.
00:01:59
Alexis
Kenny, what about you when you get those warm days? What is like your your favorite thing to do?
00:02:03
Kenney Gulley
Well, what is on my schedule today is that we have seedlings coming in in March. So that's where my mind is already at is I really need to try to get a little herbicide down before we get those trees in in mid-March.
00:02:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:15
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:16
Kenney Gulley
So that's where you start to try to almost want to jump ahead of the season a little bit. And as I'm driving away from the house this morning, I'm looking at the snow covered ground out there and I say, well, it wouldn't have been very effective anyway.
00:02:20
Alexis
Yeah,
00:02:28
Kenney Gulley
So, you know.
00:02:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:28
Alexis
yeah there you go. See, it's like you're not behind, you know, it's it's totally fine.
00:02:31
Jessica
Right.
00:02:31
Kenney Gulley
They're always behind is the problem.
00:02:31
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:02:32
Kenney Gulley
Always behind.
00:02:33
Alexis
ah Yeah, but see, eventually, like always behind becomes full circle and then you're like on time, right?
00:02:35
Brett
Yeah. It's got a white long enough.
00:02:37
Kenney Gulley
okay All right.
00:02:38
Plant People
When your you're so far behind, you're in first place.
00:02:38
Kenney Gulley
Okay.
00:02:39
Alexis
Yeah.
00:02:40
Brett
what the what's what species
00:02:41
Plant People
Yeah, then that you're doing it right.
00:02:42
Alexis
Yeah.
White Pines & Personal Memories
00:02:44
Brett
What species are the seedlings you're putting in?
00:02:46
Kenney Gulley
um I am just have some Norway spruce and some white pine this spring.
00:02:49
Plant People
Good deal. Good deal.
00:02:52
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:02:52
Alexis
Which leads perfectly into ah the fact that we're talking about some Christmas trees today.
00:02:53
Brett
Awesome.
00:02:59
Alexis
Speaking of conifers, we don't what i'll talk about conifers as often as probably Brett would like as the as the biggest of the conifer lovers amongst our group.
00:02:59
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:03:04
Plant People
hey
00:03:07
Alexis
um I just threw shade at...
00:03:09
Brett
In size and enthusiasm.
00:03:11
Plant People
Yes.
00:03:11
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:03:13
Plant People
An outsized enthusiasm and love for conifers.
00:03:14
Alexis
Physically and emotionally.
00:03:15
Kenney Gulley
Yes. Well, Brett, maybe we can convert them a little today.
00:03:19
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:19
Brett
Well, maybe you'll have better luck than I have.
00:03:22
Kenney Gulley
Okay. All right.
00:03:22
Plant People
I mean, any you mentioned white pine.
00:03:23
Alexis
I
00:03:24
Plant People
I perk up immediately. I don't know what it is.
00:03:26
Kenney Gulley
Okay.
00:03:26
Plant People
I grew up with white pines and and not necessarily looking through the lens of Christmas tree production, but I just love the sound. We had some white pines around the farm growing up. Love the sound of wind moving through kind of larger white pines.
00:03:38
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:03:39
Plant People
They are they're one of my favorites.
00:03:40
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:03:42
Plant People
and they days To this very day, i don't care you know what we're talking about. When somebody says white pine, I perk up.
00:03:48
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:03:48
Plant People
So Brett, and you both, we're on the Evergreen train today. So, yeah.
00:03:51
Alexis
See, the only thing, ah when I hear white pine, I think white pine decline and all of the trees people have called me about over the years.
00:03:57
Jessica
Same.
00:03:57
Plant People
Alexis, Alexis, please.
00:03:58
Jessica
Same.
00:03:58
Alexis
And they're like, my trees are dying.
00:03:58
Jessica
That's
00:04:01
Alexis
i'm like, well, they're about 25 years old.
00:04:01
Jessica
that's all I think.
00:04:03
Plant People
You know, we try to steer it in a positive direction, but Alexis is not bringing us back around.
00:04:03
Alexis
So yes, they're dying. but I'm a realist, okay?
00:04:08
Plant People
She is turning a 180.
00:04:10
Alexis
I'm a realist. It's who I am as a person.
00:04:11
Plant People
Turn that smile upside down.
00:04:12
Alexis
But...
Appreciating Spring's Warmth
00:04:14
Brett
When I think, yeah, well, to it I guess to answer in that and to answer your own question earlier, when the when the warm weather comes, I just think this is probably one of the, you know, there's only so many more times I'm going to feel the warmth of spring.
00:04:25
Brett
I'm just in decline now. That's how I feel when you just answer it that way.
00:04:27
Jessica
getting really really heavy here though today
00:04:27
Plant People
Yes. Yes.
00:04:30
Alexis
Listen, I mean, if that's,
00:04:30
Brett
same work See more springs than I'm going to see.
00:04:32
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:04:33
Plant People
We're at the beginning looking for the end.
00:04:34
Kenney Gulley
Well.
00:04:34
Alexis
I mean, maybe that means you value them more moving forward.
00:04:35
Plant People
Okay, sure.
00:04:36
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:04:36
Plant People
Moving on.
00:04:37
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:04:38
Alexis
All right. You're just, they're, they're more, you feel them more deeply as you move forward. Okay.
Joy of Christmas Trees
00:04:44
Alexis
Gosh, guys.
00:04:45
Plant People
We didn't start this.
00:04:45
Jessica
anyways so Christmas trees they're yeah things that bring people joy
00:04:46
Plant People
We didn't start this. Yes. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. Talking about something wonderful today. Yeah. Christmas trees. Wonderful.
00:04:55
Jessica
During the holidays.
00:04:59
Kenney Gulley
yes
00:04:59
Brett
I guess we could go that direction if you really want to, Jessica.
00:05:01
Jessica
I guess we could.
00:05:01
Kenney Gulley
yeah
00:05:01
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:01
Brett
a
00:05:02
Alexis
Thank you.
00:05:02
Jessica
We could try to turn it around a little bit.
00:05:04
Plant People
yeah
00:05:04
Brett
Yeah, well, I mean, I would just love to hear a little bit, Kenny, about like about your farm. And then we could also talk about the the association, too. But I'd love to hear kind of, you mentioned you're planting some seedlings. I'm sure i'm sure you've had some seedlings planted in the past that are, how long you've been doing this? How far along are your trees?
00:05:21
Brett
All that kind of stuff.
00:05:23
Kenney Gulley
We, my wife and I, we began a conversation in 2020, you know, right there in beginning of COVID.
Starting a Christmas Tree Farm
00:05:29
Kenney Gulley
um ah A good friend of mine, which was also a faculty advisor of mine at the University of Kentucky is a Christmas tree farmer.
00:05:36
Kenney Gulley
And we we have 10 acres there just outside of Mount Sterling is where we live and where we farm. ah Both of us are gainfully employed full time doing something else. So this is ah something that we do on our nights and weekends.
00:05:50
Kenney Gulley
And we went to this individual and and asked him about a thousand questions.
00:05:50
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:05:55
Kenney Gulley
as we were contemplating a small agricultural enterprise. And we decided that's what we were going to do. So we planted our first trees in spring of 2021.
00:06:06
Kenney Gulley
So this will be our sixth year of planting seedlings and our in our ah plots are really pretty full. So we're just doing some fill-in planting this year. This is by far the smallest planting that we will have thus far.
00:06:20
Kenney Gulley
um So we, six years.
00:06:21
Plant People
Well, six years. yeah Yeah. Seven year, eight year production cycle.
00:06:24
Kenney Gulley
and ham
00:06:24
Plant People
So you're getting ready to come on next year then probably for this year.
00:06:25
Kenney Gulley
Yep. Well, we we actually did harvest a a few, a couple dozen trees this year. So we're a little bit ahead of schedule.
00:06:32
Plant People
Oh, awesome.
00:06:34
Kenney Gulley
And um so that that part is is exciting after you've worked for five years and you do have some things that you you see enough other things that aren't going in your favor that some things did.
00:06:39
Plant People
Yeah.
Community Support in Farming
00:06:44
Kenney Gulley
And so we, that was one of the first things that my mentor gave me was that you really should come to the Kentucky Christmas tree growers association meeting coming up next month from the time that we were discussing that with him.
00:06:44
Jessica
you
00:06:45
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:57
Kenney Gulley
And we did find it very useful to be able to meet other growers, talk to them about the challenges, what we should do, what we certainly shouldn't do. And so we, we've capitalized on that and we've, we've been very active in the Kentucky Christmas tree growers association since then.
00:07:13
Kenney Gulley
asked
00:07:13
Brett
who was that Who was that person that you worked with?
00:07:15
Kenney Gulley
ah Dr.
00:07:15
Brett
You can give them shout out.
00:07:15
Kenney Gulley
Bill Moody. Dr. Bill Moody.
00:07:17
Brett
Okay.
00:07:18
Kenney Gulley
um He was a, he is an animal, he was, he's retired.
00:07:18
Brett
Great.
00:07:22
Kenney Gulley
He's an animal science professor at the University of Kentucky. I'm an animal science major. I grew up milking cows and raising tobacco and, you know, traditional agriculture as far as I i know that to be in Eastern Kentucky.
00:07:33
Kenney Gulley
And um so that, that was my background as we certainly was around hay production and corn and and those types of things. But I also worked in to tobacco research the whole time I was a student at University Kentucky.
00:07:44
Kenney Gulley
So um ah that's really all I know is agriculture.
00:07:45
Brett
you
00:07:48
Kenney Gulley
So that's what I've been around my my entire life. And and I am an owner and operator of a a farm equipment dealership now. So I've been around agribusiness my entire professional career. And I guess you like to see things grow and and it's hard to give up the production part.
00:08:02
Kenney Gulley
So as we were talking about doing something on our little ah corner of God's acre there, we we we got into the Christmas tree business.
00:08:03
Jessica
Thank you.
00:08:11
Plant People
mentioned You mentioned that you were involved, you know, it sounds like a lot of traditional agriculture and you mentioned tobacco.
00:08:16
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:08:16
Plant People
I will not terrorize you by bringing up Dr. Neesmith's name. i
Balancing Farming & Full-Time Job
00:08:20
Plant People
don't know if you ever ran into him.
00:08:20
Kenney Gulley
Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes.
00:08:21
Plant People
ah I figured you had some dealings with him way back in the day in tobacco, but it sounds like you have a lot of great experience in traditional agriculture. And I'm always curious, especially with the Christmas tree growers, because it is a different sort of thing.
00:08:33
Plant People
It's got a longer payout. It's got a different kind of labor schedule.
00:08:35
Kenney Gulley
Yep.
00:08:36
Plant People
But what brings someone like yourself that's more familiar with more traditional end of agriculture in Kentucky, what brings you to the Christmas tree end of things? ah Was it your wife's enthusiasm or did you have to bring or what was it?
00:08:47
Kenney Gulley
No, no, that wasn't it. No, ah now no, no.
00:08:49
Plant People
I should have. Sorry. I always am curious about that.
00:08:51
Alexis
Immediately, no.
00:08:52
Kenney Gulley
um
00:08:52
Plant People
A medial no. A hard no.
00:08:54
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:08:54
Plant People
I heard that.
00:08:54
Kenney Gulley
sir
00:08:54
Plant People
Yeah.
00:08:55
Kenney Gulley
We um ah both of us grew up in, in rural Kentucky and living in Mount Sterling at up to for raising a family. we We lived about a mile away from Walmart and Kroger's and all those conveniences of which we did not have growing up. And she was very accustomed to that. So it took me a little bit of prying to get her to move four miles outside of town. ah But yeah,
00:09:16
Kenney Gulley
Then we started having the conversation as far as stewardship and we had some land here and we really should try to make the best use of it. Uh, she made me, uh, compromise on, on, uh, animal production.
00:09:28
Kenney Gulley
So there'll be no animals, um, because of lifestyle and weekends and that kind of said, okay, that's all fine.
00:09:31
Plant People
Thank you.
00:09:32
Alexis
Thank you.
00:09:35
Kenney Gulley
That's all well. So let's, so as we started talking through some things, that's when the, really the question I knew that Dr. Moody was raising Christmas trees and, um, You know, you don't have the problems with the Christmas trees getting out in the road and stuff like you do with cattle.
00:09:48
Alexis
just
00:09:49
Kenney Gulley
And so, you know, so we we met the in the middle somewhere there. And um like I say, part of the things which we also had to work around is we had the land. I do have
Why Christmas Trees?
00:10:00
Kenney Gulley
availability to equipment.
00:10:02
Kenney Gulley
How do we make this work in our lifestyle? Because I don't i don't want a farm market that's open six months a year.
00:10:06
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:10:09
Jessica
Thank you.
00:10:10
Kenney Gulley
So the Christmas trees fit very well. It's a very closed retail market. It lets us do much of the physical labor on our schedule so we can do it at nights, weekends, whatever we need to do there.
00:10:15
Plant People
you
00:10:21
Kenney Gulley
So it really does fit into what we had going on. um And then if you watch a Hallmark movie, you know, there's no Hallmark movies about raising pumpkins.
00:10:25
Brett
Can I ask you?
00:10:29
Kenney Gulley
So.
00:10:29
Plant People
No. well no
00:10:30
Alexis
ah
00:10:30
Brett
That's right.
00:10:30
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:10:32
Plant People
Yeah, that's always the it's always the pretty stuff.
00:10:32
Brett
What else?
00:10:34
Plant People
Yes, absolutely.
00:10:35
Kenney Gulley
Sure. sure
00:10:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:10:36
Brett
what What else was on the the short list that got scratched off before you arrived there? Do you do you recall that? Maybe Pumpkins was one of them.
00:10:42
Kenney Gulley
um Really what we had out ah out there was, this was all hay ground. Hay production is what what the ground was being used for up to this point.
00:10:49
Brett
Hmm.
00:10:51
Kenney Gulley
But we had no desire to get into ah pumpkins, vegetables. We really did not have a desire to do that. ah So after she said we couldn't have livestock, that's really where it turned into, ah put us into a, yes, it sort of put us into a corner there.
00:11:04
Plant People
It kind of steered the ship. Yeah. Yeah. Well, some of those things, I mean, yeah, it's, I mean, when cows need to be fed, they need to be fed or milked when they need to be milked.
00:11:14
Kenney Gulley
yes Yeah.
00:11:14
Plant People
So it sounds like that it was a, is it fair to say kind of a life fit for you guys? It sounds like, and I hear that a lot.
00:11:19
Kenney Gulley
Yes, exactly.
00:11:19
Jessica
That's
00:11:20
Kenney Gulley
Yes, it it worked because we already had the property. um and And as you start to think about, if you have 10 acres and by the time you say, well, there's a pond and there's ah you know, our yard and the barn, and there's very limited how much land is there.
00:11:23
Plant People
Yeah.
00:11:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:11:32
Kenney Gulley
So how much of an agriculture enterprise can you have on five acres of land? And Christmas trees actually allow you to have a a decent amount of gross revenue coming off that small acreage.
00:11:42
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:11:42
Kenney Gulley
So there was a critical mass is is the way I would put that terminology.
Labor-Intensive Nature of Tree Farming
00:11:48
Plant People
Yeah. It seems like ah so many times fit's very important all across the state in any ag enterprise, but specifically as you go towards more hilly regions, it has to be a fit for the land, not only a fit for the family, it sounds like for you guys.
00:11:48
Jessica
that's
00:12:00
Kenney Gulley
Sure. Sure.
00:12:01
Plant People
You know, we we talked to to folks a lot about that and how it fits in with your family.
00:12:02
Jessica
Thank you.
00:12:06
Plant People
And we talk about, it's kind of like grapes and some other enterprises, apple trees, orchards and things. It does have a longer payout. So it sounds like, yeah, you guys made all those considerations since when you were Thinking about getting into this.
00:12:15
Kenney Gulley
Right.
00:12:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:17
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:12:17
Plant People
Good deal.
00:12:18
Kenney Gulley
um ah it I mean, with Christmas trees, it is not a huge capital outlay. If you already have the the the land, albeit the commitment is more toward the the labor,
00:12:29
Kenney Gulley
that it's going to take. and And that comes back to what's the the management system that you want.
00:12:31
Jessica
Thank
00:12:34
Kenney Gulley
And from our perspective is we wanted to keep it mowed down. We wanted to look attractive. We did not want briars and, you know, things growing. So we we do spend about seven to eight hours a week mowing.
00:12:44
Kenney Gulley
And that's really when the other question that came back up is whenever it turns 60 degrees, what's in your mind and go, Oh no, we got to start mowing in about a month.
00:12:50
Plant People
The sod is growing.
00:12:51
Kenney Gulley
ah So but I wasn't looking forward to that.
00:12:52
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:54
Kenney Gulley
ah But because once we start, you know, it's just what we do.
00:12:54
Alexis
Yeah.
00:12:58
Kenney Gulley
And you still work in your fertilization and your tree shearing and you, you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:12:58
Plant People
You don't stop. Yeah.
00:13:05
Plant People
Yeah. I talked to lot of folks who like, oh, it's so little labor. You know, we're into something that with very little labor. I'm like, well, there's some, there's some labor in involved.
00:13:12
Kenney Gulley
This is not it. this
00:13:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:13:14
Jessica
Right. That's, yeah.
00:13:14
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:15
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:16
Alexis
There's very little horticulture that is as little labor, at least as people want.
00:13:18
Kenney Gulley
That's correct.
00:13:20
Alexis
There's there's a spectrum for sure, but but ah this whole like plant it and forget it ah timeline is not not really what people think it is.
00:13:20
Kenney Gulley
that's That's correct.
00:13:27
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:13:29
Alexis
Yeah.
00:13:29
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:13:29
Jessica
photos that you see online about all those different production systems and horticulture make it look often glamorous and easy and you're just going out there plant plant a christmas tree and then a couple years later just cut it down that's it right so yeah
00:13:31
Alexis
and
00:13:37
Plant People
Very Instagrammy.
00:13:37
Alexis
Hallmark movie.
00:13:38
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:39
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:13:42
Plant People
hey i'm playing
00:13:43
Alexis
Frees just like grow in my yard by themselves.
00:13:43
Kenney Gulley
hallmark never shows that
00:13:45
Plant People
I'm blaming Hallmark
Agritourism & Family Joy
00:13:46
Plant People
for this and Lifetime TV. Yes.
00:13:47
Kenney Gulley
That's right. They never show the morning and the spring.
00:13:48
Plant People
Getting married or...
00:13:50
Kenney Gulley
They never show any of that part.
00:13:50
Plant People
Yeah, no. No, we're sharing. They just show the mayor of a small town and someone...
00:13:54
Kenney Gulley
That's right.
00:13:54
Alexis
Spraying for spider mites.
00:13:56
Plant People
though Yeah, they they never show...
00:13:56
Kenney Gulley
That's right. Somebody's falling in love and there you have it right there.
00:13:59
Plant People
But that's got to help with marketing though, because I mean, it's one of those things.
00:14:02
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:14:04
Plant People
i know it doesn't sell itself. Christmas tree production, but a lot of hard work, you know, lots of sweat equity in there. But I mean, um ah yeah, it's one of those things that it's kind of positive vibe.
00:14:14
Alexis
A lot of the marketing is being like done, right? like you You have to do some, but there's a lot more being done for you, i think, in some ways than like a cucumber is.
00:14:17
Jessica
Okay.
00:14:19
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:14:21
Plant People
lot of positive vibes. Yeah.
00:14:22
Kenney Gulley
Yes. Yes. Yes. there's There's pictures painted in people's minds as far as going out to a Christmas tree farm because they they see those things.
00:14:27
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:14:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:14:30
Kenney Gulley
and And some people have that tradition. Some people do not. And and they desire to make that. And that's that's also part of the fun part of it is that it is 99% of the time it is the best environment to sell.
00:14:44
Kenney Gulley
People are happy to come and see you year after year. You start to get to know their families. It is a neat experience. So that part is very, very good.
00:14:53
Alexis
So what would you say you
00:14:54
Jessica
But you...
Learning Curve in Tree Farming
00:14:56
Alexis
dislike about growing Christmas trees?
00:14:58
Alexis
Sounds like you all have made some you know good decisions that makes it work for you, but what what do you dislike about it?
00:15:04
Kenney Gulley
Well, I mean, there's, there's it's laborious.
00:15:05
Plant People
Negative.
00:15:07
Kenney Gulley
I mean, it's, you're, there's no shortcuts.
00:15:10
Alexis
don't know.
00:15:11
Kenney Gulley
We do not have any hired labor. So it's me and my wife and that that's who's going to go out and, and, you know, the the the work has to get done, but that's just, that's, that's agriculture, isn't it? I mean, that's whether it's horticulture or just agriculture, the work has to get done. And, and I've never been one that works from eight to five and you work until you get the job done. And so that's always been part of my mentality. So, you know, really there's,
00:15:36
Kenney Gulley
ah part of the most discouraging part, it's not necessarily the part that you hate, is whenever you go, the effort of planting trees and you watch them die. um
00:15:43
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:15:44
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:15:44
Kenney Gulley
And that's the learning curve that you have, is that you try to figure out which species will work on the land, which we have, and under the the management, which we have.
00:15:50
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:15:52
Kenney Gulley
Because we we were talking about another grower just prior to going on air, and and they have irrigation systems. I do not. So whenever we have this, you know, two, two months or six weeks of, of, uh, no rain, you know, that's not, uh, the best on, on a lot of things which we try to plant and grow there.
00:16:04
Jessica
Thank you.
00:16:05
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:11
Kenney Gulley
So that's part of big learning curve is is, helping us come to the point of realization. I can grow this and this, but I cannot grow this and this.
00:16:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:22
Kenney Gulley
So we were talking a little of the same thing about what we're growing and, um, you know, the, the disappointment of thinking, Hey, I can, I can overcome my soil and I can overcome the weather, you might as you must well come to the realization of, no, you can't.
00:16:31
Alexis
I'm going play Colorado blue spruce everywhere.
00:16:37
Kenney Gulley
so So I'm becoming more of a realist in this process.
00:16:39
Plant People
but Okay.
00:16:41
Jessica
Yeah.
00:16:42
Plant People
so So you started on a high point. Now you're at a real point, it sounds like.
00:16:45
Kenney Gulley
Yes. Yes.
00:16:46
Plant People
Well, well ah i'm ah on the vein of positivity, Alexis, um I mean, you you guys have several years under your belt now. I mean, are there some positive surprises or some some things that's ah kind of growing in a certain direction in a very positive light?
00:17:03
Plant People
with growing the Christmas trees that maybe you hadn't considered or is just a kind of a real plus. as I mean, it doesn't matter bringing people to the farm or just the whole marketing end of things, the direct sales, just whatever.
00:17:15
Plant People
i mean, some things that have been kind of a pleasant surprise. I know there's lots of challenges each and every year with, you know, things.
00:17:22
Kenney Gulley
it's It's an enterprise that what what we have found is that people want you to succeed. Even the people who don't come and buy from you want you to succeed um because they think it's a neat thing and they want it in the in the community.
00:17:28
Plant People
Okay.
00:17:35
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:17:35
Kenney Gulley
And and so it is it's fun to have ah supporters because often, you know, in production agriculture in whatever form or fashion, you feel like you're out here on your own little plot and it's you against the world.
00:17:40
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:45
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:47
Kenney Gulley
And and that's not that's not necessarily the case. And I think you really see that in a lot of agritourism.
Challenges of Clay Soils & Phytophthora
00:17:53
Kenney Gulley
And that's where we sort of put ourselves into that that category, is people want you to be part of that community and they want you to succeed.
00:18:00
Plant People
I mean, are you guys known as the Christmas tree people now there locally?
00:18:02
Kenney Gulley
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:03
Plant People
yeah do you have a kind of a new title? It sounds like in a very good way.
00:18:06
Kenney Gulley
Yeah, so it's...
00:18:07
Alexis
He called worse things.
00:18:07
Plant People
I mean, yes, absolutely.
00:18:09
Kenney Gulley
Yeah, we've not gone down the path of the merchandising yet, but whenever people see the stuff that we wear, they want to know where can I buy that? So that will probably get phased into that because of the same thing that people want to buy into those, those kinds of.
00:18:23
Plant People
Oh, sure. And then it's a local thing. And it's awesome to hear that.
00:18:25
Kenney Gulley
It is, it is.
00:18:26
Plant People
It sounds like the community is kind of taking ownership with you of that as far as that goes.
00:18:29
Kenney Gulley
Yep. Yep.
00:18:31
Plant People
And that that's awesome. Sometimes I don't think we focus on that enough when you feel supported not only by the technical side of things, you know, like the association and other help that you get along the way, but just the community and the positivity that sort of brings.
00:18:45
Plant People
It's a very good point. Yeah, it's great.
00:18:46
Kenney Gulley
Well, and there's even more to it. Really, when you come back and you see the programs that are available from the state to
Spring Planting Preference
00:18:53
Kenney Gulley
assist in diversifying agriculture, that's a big deal.
00:18:53
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:18:57
Kenney Gulley
um Because often we we, you know, it's the soybeans and corn now, and it used to be tobacco, those bigger programs.
00:18:57
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:05
Kenney Gulley
demanded the support, they demanded the dollars. um and And those things, those need support. i'm I'm not talking against those. But as we are trying to diversify into more horticulture type programs,
00:19:20
Kenney Gulley
those supports are needed as well, especially with the learning curves that most producers are trying when they're transitioning for someone like me, which has been much more traditional in agriculture.
00:19:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:29
Kenney Gulley
But now we're trying to to take on a different enterprise, which I have no background in. So it's a whole different set of knowledge and experience that you have to gain. And it's good to have those programs available.
00:19:43
Plant People
It's ah interesting.
00:19:43
Jessica
You kind of,
00:19:44
Plant People
Yeah. Your take on that. i love it.
00:19:47
Jessica
I said, you were kind of talking about the, you know, we've talked before, like I have some Christmas tree growers in my County and like some of the challenges that they have had, especially disease issues.
00:19:57
Jessica
Has that led you, i know they have been looking at more like unique varieties of trees to try to plant, to like try to combat
Experimenting with Turkish Fir
00:20:06
Jessica
that. Is that something that you all are doing or you might not have the same issues as they, you know, they are having a lot of, um,
00:20:09
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:20:13
Jessica
like Phytophthora issues going on on their property.
00:20:14
Kenney Gulley
We do. I get to deal with that on a very regular basis. And that's part of what we have to ah come to the realization when you're dealing with clay-based soils, of which that's what I'm dealing with.
00:20:27
Kenney Gulley
It was a little different experience when I worked at UK's research farms. You know, their soils are so different from what we have.
00:20:32
Jessica
Oh, spindle top is like perfect, right?
00:20:32
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:20:34
Kenney Gulley
That's correct.
00:20:34
Jessica
Yeah.
00:20:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:35
Kenney Gulley
That's correct. So the drainage is totally different. Top soils are totally different in the world that I'm living in. I'm working on very little topsoil, a lot of clay. And if you're trying to grow Fraser firs or really any type of firs, you're going to struggle. And I've struggled for four years. Well, guess what? In year five and year six, mine, I'm a lot smarter. I quit planting firs and my success rate's going up tremendously. So I'm dealing with phytopther.
00:21:02
Kenney Gulley
So that that so i'm you know there there's no quick fix to that, that i've unless you all want to share that with me. ive haven't found anybody that can tell me what that is. Other than species selection is a big deal for us. That's how we're really dealing with it. Now, one of the things which I did last year is I have brought in some Turkish fur because they are supposed to be more ah resistant to Phytophthora. So I have an experiment of ongoing there on my own property. um At this point, it's hard for me to tell how much I'm gaining there versus the death because of drought last fall.
00:21:35
Kenney Gulley
So I'm still dealing with some issues there.
00:21:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:21:37
Kenney Gulley
But but yes, we we are looking at other species all the time because we are seeing weather variations from what we've had in the past. So
The Business of Farming
00:21:46
Kenney Gulley
we're trying to figure out what what is going to be effective, what's going to work, and still deliver a product that the end you that the end customer is proud to put in their home.
00:21:54
Jessica
you
00:21:56
Kenney Gulley
So yes, we are certainly experimenting with that as well.
00:22:00
Alexis
Question about ah your planting time. So I know, you know, in Kentucky, we we normally tell people at least for, you know, most deciduous trees that they're growing that fall is actually the best time to plant.
00:22:10
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:22:11
Alexis
But you're mentioning spring plantings. Is there a reason why?
00:22:13
Kenney Gulley
yes
00:22:14
Alexis
Is it just, you know, what you prefer or when things are available or what's that look like?
00:22:19
Kenney Gulley
um the nurseries that we buy a seed stock from seem to be more highly directed to spring planting than they are in fall.
00:22:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:27
Kenney Gulley
There are some who you can get fall.
00:22:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:29
Kenney Gulley
And I attempted to plant some ah a year ago this past fall. The survivability was not very good at all. Same thing. We were having these dry falls. um
00:22:39
Alexis
Yeah.
00:22:39
Plant People
yeah
00:22:40
Kenney Gulley
And so what we have found is that spring, if anything, it's too wet, but but we have moisture to get those plants.
00:22:45
Alexis
Yeah.
00:22:47
Kenney Gulley
So they're dormant when we plant them. And then we hope to have them in the ground before ground starts to warm up and then we get good bud break and we have successful growth taking off in the spring.
00:22:49
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:58
Kenney Gulley
So I know of people who do plant it in the fall. seemed The things from our like say from the nurseries up to the weather, which we're having, seem to be a little better aimed for our production for springtime planting.
00:23:13
Kenney Gulley
If the weather, you know, we start getting, go ahead, sorry.
00:23:14
Alexis
Are you doing any type of, sorry, go ahead. i was to say, are you doing any type of mulching on those first year plants just to try and even out the soil moisture or you're just saying live or die guys, good luck?
00:23:26
Kenney Gulley
Well, I have used wood chips in the past on some, same thing.
00:23:26
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:23:27
Plant People
Thank
00:23:31
Kenney Gulley
I just experienced with them.
00:23:31
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:23:32
Kenney Gulley
And and i for as much as weed control is and as as much for that purpose as I was for moisture, um I did not see ah a tremendous difference in the performance of what I saw on on our property.
00:23:46
Kenney Gulley
So i I have not gone past
Role of the Growers Association
00:23:48
Kenney Gulley
that. um So there is the mentality among some growers that I i sort of follow. It's when it comes to irrigation in whatever form or fashion, you know, dragging a tank around and pouring water to base the tree versus sprinklers versus drip irrigation.
00:24:04
Kenney Gulley
You know, i've I've seen bits and pieces on all of those things. And I have done some of those things, um, like in the fall planning, I did go out and water those because after you, you take the time it's, to me, it's not as much about the money as the labor.
00:24:07
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:24:17
Alexis
Yeah.
00:24:17
Kenney Gulley
Uh, I got there and sweat over these things to get them in the ground.
00:24:18
Jessica
Great.
00:24:19
Alexis
Yeah.
00:24:20
Kenney Gulley
I would like for them to to live. Um,
00:24:22
Alexis
Right.
00:24:23
Kenney Gulley
But anyway, so I have almost adopted the idea of ah you know, if if I want 50 to live, then plant 100. um So because it's almost easier than and for me to figure out the investment of drip irrigation doesn't seem to make sense to me on my property.
00:24:34
Alexis
True.
00:24:42
Alexis
What I love hearing you say is that you're experimenting one and number two, you're kind of running the numbers, right? Like you're saying, you i could put in the drip, but i'm you know you're I think sometimes we going back to that romanticizing of farming in general, right?
00:24:49
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:24:56
Alexis
it's People forget it is a business. And so you are you're taking that seriously, especially when you're looking at eight years, seven to eight years and return on
00:24:58
Kenney Gulley
Yes, it is a business. Yes.
Consumer Expectations & Education
00:25:04
Alexis
investment there.
00:25:04
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:25:04
Alexis
Like that's that's huge. So it's just exciting when I get to hear a farmer like crunching the numbers.
00:25:06
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:25:10
Alexis
Yeah.
00:25:10
Kenney Gulley
Well, ah we did start with a business plan. You know, we this is not my first business.
00:25:13
Alexis
Love it.
00:25:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:13
Alexis
hum Speaking our language.
00:25:15
Kenney Gulley
This is what we do, but I still run it like a business because it we, as we also, my wife and I look at retirement upcoming, we we do expect for this to be a viable ongoing business, maybe after we do cut back on our professional careers to go this path.
00:25:16
Alexis
so Love it.
00:25:32
Brett
Well, these people are plant nerds. I happen to be in ag economics, so I have different things that I tend to focus on.
00:25:39
Plant People
Speaking of bringing us down, Brett.
00:25:40
Brett
They're going to ask you about growing plants, and but but ah but I did want to make sure we talked. You mentioned several times now the Kentucky Christmas Tree Growers Association.
00:25:48
Kenney Gulley
Yep. Yes.
00:25:49
Brett
And I wanted to just hear you you said you attended there when you first started. and I think you've been involved since then. I'm just curious kind of what your experience has been. What if you have ah if we have some aspiring Christmas tree growers out there listening in, um should they come and check out the the association?
00:26:05
Brett
What what kind of stuff are you all thinking about in 2026 or beyond?
00:26:06
Jessica
Thank you.
00:26:10
Brett
I'd just be curious about that.
00:26:12
Kenney Gulley
Sure. um As we, whenever I joined the the organization, there was a i don't know, 20, maybe 20 member farms. And that's how we have membership is by farm, not by individual. So if five people from a farm want to come, that's all great. ah Today we have 55 member farms.
00:26:30
Kenney Gulley
So we are seeing a growth in new individuals coming into production of Christmas trees. um Now that puts a, because it it actually changes the shift of what the organization is. And yes, we still promote production of Christmas trees.
00:26:47
Kenney Gulley
Um, but we have a handful of veteran growers and I'm talking about multi-decade type growers, people that have been around the block multiple times. And and and really what I have found is these are a a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of experience, and they're very, very open to sharing that information with other people. So it's not like, well, this is a new farm. They're going be a competitor to me. That's not the perception.
00:27:11
Kenney Gulley
um So as we are up to 55 growers, ah what we really have to identify as an organization is, yes, we want to promote the industry, but two, we have to be the educational component.
00:27:22
Kenney Gulley
As much as we would like, and you can look at the staff at the University of Kentucky and Extension, it's never been that large of an industry to make it viable for the university to invest in staff the same way they do other enterprises.
00:27:33
Alexis
Hmm.
00:27:34
Jessica
Thank you.
00:27:34
Kenney Gulley
So we get that. We know that. So that's part of the charge that we have as an organization is we have to offer that educational support to our growers as well. So that's where much of our meetings is is tied around trainings. and And farms, our local farms will host. We've got one coming up in March on planting practices. So there's supposed to be an actual mechanical planter there as well as hand planting. And so we can do some various training with individual growers to see what works for them. What are their best what are the best practices as far as root dips or those types of things which we can talk about? One of the most intimidating things for most people is shearing.
00:28:14
Kenney Gulley
How do I trim that tree after I get it to start growing and I still want it to look like a Christmas tree when I'm finished?
00:28:15
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:19
Kenney Gulley
um because I, I've butchered them, you know, that just, You know, but but you it's good to have those resources to help us learn because none of us, or at least not they know him about Christmas trees growing in the production side of them before we started. So I've leaned heavily upon these experienced growers. And as I'm learning, I certainly try to make myself available for other growers who are looking to maybe come to come out and visit the farm and look and and learn on what we might be doing right and things you probably should not try to do.
00:28:53
Brett
you know it's an interesting component to the the nature of the industry is that even if you did look at people as a competitor,
Consumer Preferences & Demand
00:29:00
Brett
you've probably got a seven-year head start as far as if you're if you're in production.
00:29:03
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:29:04
Brett
So there's ah there's a different almost a different way of thinking about it in terms of the longevity of the industry and handing things off.
00:29:04
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:29:04
Alexis
Yeah.
00:29:10
Brett
Like, i just any time that you start to have longer time horizons that you're thinking about, I think it just changes – the nature of the conversation and the, the, that there is this kind of slingshot lag effect in terms of production, you know, when you're going to get stuff out.
00:29:24
Brett
So that's really cool to hear. And of course we work, we work a lot with the Kentucky horticulture council and, and that's this association is one of ah a large number actually of grower associations that do a lot of support like this.
00:29:30
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:29:37
Brett
So that's really cool to, to hear. I'm going to shoehorn in one more ag econ in this case question. And I'm curious, you know You've been you've been in around this and you're talking with lots of different growers.
00:29:49
Brett
What do you see on the consumer demand side? Do people, do they just want a beautiful idyllic local Christmas tree? Do people come to you and they're quizzing you about the species you have available?
00:30:01
Brett
i know there's all kinds of things like ah like how, I don't even know, there's needle loss and there's branch elasticity and all these other things that factor in that we don't necessarily think about.
00:30:10
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:30:11
Brett
what do What's your as you're thinking about your consumer and you're thinking about the trees, you're trying to grow for them. What's your, what are some trends or things you've seen about that?
00:30:21
Kenney Gulley
Okay. ah One, I think we sometimes we have preconceived ideas in our minds. um From the perspective, if you go out and look at Christmas tree, cut Christmas trees across the board. If you go to a big box store, they're pretty much all going to have furs. That's what they're going to have.
00:30:36
Kenney Gulley
And that that sounds good. ah There is a farm in Kentucky who effectively grows Fraser furs in the Lexington market, and they they do very good.
00:30:45
Jessica
Thank you.
00:30:45
Kenney Gulley
He's an excellent producer. But when it comes back to soil types and those types things, that doesn't properly. on our operation. It doesn't work on most Kentucky operations. Uh, so he's a wealth of knowledge. He's very open and I'm very appreciative of this individual.
00:31:01
Kenney Gulley
Um, but if, if I were to line up species in front of the typical producer and say, all right, here's, here's ah a, a, fir and here's a spruce and here's a pine.
00:31:11
Kenney Gulley
And i if I ask them, most people couldn't tell me which one was which anyway, in reality.
00:31:16
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:31:17
Kenney Gulley
So they, sometimes they have a preconceived idea, but it's an idea. It's not necessarily based in reality. So this year, what I've, for the last three years, I have brought in pre-cut trees from North Carolina.
00:31:28
Kenney Gulley
I brought in for some Fraser furs just to help get people acclimated coming to our farm. This year, since we had trees available they're on a limited basis for someone to come out and cut your own tree, you can you come out, identify it, cut it, do all that deal.
00:31:34
Jessica
Thank you.
Marketing Strategies & Consumer Interactions
00:31:43
Kenney Gulley
We had a number of people who were very happy, even though I didn't have fir trees. not a Fraser fir, I don't have any fir trees.
00:31:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:50
Kenney Gulley
I've got some Norway spruce and I've got some white pine and we had the conversations. With Norway spruce, sometimes there can be issues with needle loss, but it is a rigid branched tree and what I have harvested Norway spruce the last two years for my personal use and I did not see those problems.
00:32:06
Kenney Gulley
Now, I'm also very diligent to talk to them about, you must keep this plant in water. You must do the, you know, try to keep ah heat away from this tree.
00:32:13
Alexis
isn
00:32:15
Kenney Gulley
You must do these things. If you have a white pine, you may love the smell. You may, you all of those things, just understand it's not the best tree to handle heavy ornaments. So you try to help them set their expectations on what the tree is.
00:32:25
Jessica
Oh.
00:32:28
Kenney Gulley
But I had people that were much more enthusiastic about going and cutting the tree than what species it was.
00:32:35
Alexis
Yeah.
00:32:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:36
Kenney Gulley
which I'm very pleased with since i have thousands of white pine and thousands of Norway spruce planted.
00:32:36
Alexis
It's experienced.
00:32:40
Alexis
Hmm.
00:32:40
Kenney Gulley
So ah now the the other side of that is I've also had other, I've had landscapers who've come out and said, look, if you can't sell those Norway spruce, we'll buy them all from you for landscaping.
00:32:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:49
Plant People
I was just going to ask if you bottled in burlap any.
00:32:50
Kenney Gulley
So I have a back up if something were to not work out well there.
00:32:52
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. How about greenery?
00:32:55
Brett
That's great. way Well, I i just had one.
00:32:57
Plant People
Oh, sorry, Brett. Yeah, go ahead.
00:32:58
Brett
That's okay. There's a really interesting parallel there, I think, with the wine industry in Kentucky, where people are used to, in the same way that they they think, well, i want a Fraser Fir because that's what I've gotten you know before.
00:33:12
Brett
They'll kind of roll into a Kentucky winery and say, well, I i want a Cab Sauve. Can you grow grow a Cabernet Sauvignon?
00:33:19
Jessica
Thank
00:33:19
Brett
And the the response is very similar where it's kind of like, well, no, but if you like this kind of big body, bold red with this nice tannin content, so maybe it's a decent amount of oak, try this other variety that we can grow here.
Parallels with Kentucky Wine Industry
00:33:32
Brett
And I think that that's a really interesting because it also, it gives them a little bit of a,
00:33:32
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:33:37
Brett
a story that they can then take when they take that bottle of wine or they have that Christmas tree set up at their house to say, well, actually, I know a lot more about Christmas trees and wine now than you do, my guests who are coming over.
00:33:41
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:33:47
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:33:47
Brett
Let me tell you about this experience I had out with Kenny or with one of the wineries in town. And so I think that's a really cool aspect because there's a little bit of an agricultural education component about local locality and terroir and all those other fun things.
00:33:54
Jessica
Thank you.
00:33:55
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:34:00
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:34:01
Brett
But sorry, Ray, I cut you off.
00:34:02
Plant People
No, not at all. um ah I was just going to ask you, I mentioned bald and burlap, which I was kind of curious about if you're going to do any of that at all. I know digging's its own thing, especially alexa if you like falling in planting holes.
00:34:13
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:34:15
Plant People
you know I think some of us have done that, that have ran across Christmas tree farms, but ah it seems like ah a lot of ah the different operations I ran into, they didn't set out to do greenery, but that's become big.
00:34:27
Plant People
Are you guys thinking about any cut greener in the future? Is that even a consideration?
00:34:29
Jessica
you
00:34:31
Kenney Gulley
Well, let me talk about bow and burlap to start with, because I'll have ah a couple of people, and I'll say a couple, a handful of people each year who call and say, do you have live trees?
00:34:33
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:39
Kenney Gulley
That's the way they don't, like you know. yeah ah And the the problem that I've got is that by the time, if I want to go down the path of saying I want to get the equipment to start digging trees, and then i'm going have to get a nursery permit, and, there are you know, these other
00:34:41
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:52
Kenney Gulley
caveats that go along with that. um It doesn't make economic sense to me at this point. And if I get to a point to where I can't sell them as cut Christmas trees, which is plan a then I have plan B to come back to if
00:34:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:06
Kenney Gulley
another year or two years if I think that's not going to be a viable option, but it does not seem to be the case today.
00:35:06
Plant People
Gotcha.
00:35:11
Kenney Gulley
So I do not have a desire because if I've already told you, I don't have a lot of topsoil. The first thing I i get to do if I start down that path is to start get bringing in truckloads of topsoil and then try to figure out how does that fit with the topsoil already have and then start making the soil amendments and
00:35:17
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:35:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:26
Plant People
A whole different thing.
00:35:26
Kenney Gulley
That's a whole other game.
00:35:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:28
Kenney Gulley
ah So at this point, I'm not pursuing that. ah Your other question about greenery is this past year was the first year that we started making reeds. um
00:35:39
Plant People
Oh, yeah. you
00:35:39
Kenney Gulley
So that that I really wondered, oh, you know, how's this going to go? You know, just told you I'm a... cow and tobacco guy, you know, he making Christmas trees.
Wreath Making & Greenery Potential
00:35:51
Kenney Gulley
It was actually a fun deal. It was very successful for us on the the limited basis, which we started with. it So I certainly think that is a very viable continue to grow in the future.
00:36:02
Jessica
Thank you.
00:36:02
Kenney Gulley
Um, and we were able to work with some grants in order to help us even go down that path of doing that. So that's been very, very good for us. A lot of other tree farms in Kentucky have not been doing the value added, uh, greenery and, and, and reeds.
00:36:14
Plant People
Sounds
00:36:14
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:36:16
Kenney Gulley
And if they can do that without having to, to, to make those strides, so that that's great for them. But I think for most of us, as far as young, I'm going to say young farming operations, not young farmers, cause I don't really fit that category either. Um, But it can certainly be a a revenue source to help make the overall enterprise work.
00:36:37
Kenney Gulley
um And we go ahead.
00:36:37
Plant People
sounds like it, yeah.
00:36:37
Brett
So to doing that, this is specifically way about this.
00:36:39
Jessica
Definitely. Go ahead.
00:36:42
Brett
so So doing that, are you, you're taking prunings from trees that are not yet ready to be sold in the meantime? Is that, is that where those wreaths, that wreath content comes from?
00:36:54
Kenney Gulley
Well, where where I started at this year was I brought in pre-cut trees that need to be basil pruned. So as soon as I bring them in, I'm basil pruning them.
00:37:01
Alexis
um
00:37:04
Kenney Gulley
I'm cutting the the bottom of the ah ah handle off. And then I put my pre-cut trees in water. So they are in water the entire time they're on my farm. from the day they arrive until the day they are sold to keep them as fresh as possible.
00:37:18
Kenney Gulley
So I have now the bottoms of these Fraser firs, which is is quite a bit of greenery. And then what I've also been to add to that as I've gone out, I've got some scotch pine, I've got some other things that
00:37:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:37:30
Kenney Gulley
ah some trees that be honest with aren't the most pretty things in the world. Well, they, they will contribute to the enterprise when it's all said and done.
00:37:36
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:37
Kenney Gulley
So I go out and just collect some of that information, some of those, that that greenery. And one of the things which I found very interesting is I had customers there. And so would you like to just make your own wreath instead of me make a wreath for you?
00:37:48
Kenney Gulley
Well, that was the greatest thing. They really liked the experience of making for ah children or making for their grandparents, you know, that special touch of getting to hand craft these things for gifts.
00:37:50
Jessica
You meant
00:37:59
Kenney Gulley
So, i mean, there's a lot of ways of marketing that. I know some people do wreath classes, but, you know, there's there is a market for the experience. and And I don't have a place for hay rides and all that kind of stuff, but these are certainly opportunities to to bring experiences for those families.
00:38:07
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:38:14
Plant People
What so many farms have figured out is that experience is worth, yeah, that's ah that's a revenue in itself.
00:38:15
Jessica
you mean
00:38:17
Kenney Gulley
Yes. Yeah.
00:38:20
Plant People
Yeah, go ahead, Jessica.
00:38:21
Jessica
You mentioned some, you know, using some of those funky trees or whatever, which makes me think of like deer, deer issues. Do you have any wildlife issues and stuff like that? Cause I know um the growers that I work with, you know, that's what they were using for some of their um cuttings for wreaths and other things, know, greenery that they were selling this year were the ones that the deer had come and rubbed on and split all apart or were really funky that they're like, this will never recover.
00:38:33
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:38:37
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:38:42
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:43
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:38:45
Jessica
Like no matter what we do pruning wise, this is always going a really funky tree.
00:38:48
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:38:49
Jessica
And so that's, Thus, those became the the greenery ones.
00:38:53
Kenney Gulley
That is a real issue with other farms. So I have my challenges. Thankfully, deer is not one of my challenges.
00:38:59
Jessica
good
Wildlife Challenges & Solutions
00:39:00
Kenney Gulley
So I have some wild land behind me and they seem to be content staying over there and there's not much cover for them on my side.
00:39:00
Alexis
ah
00:39:07
Kenney Gulley
So they they tend to stay on the other side of the fence. So there's deer around, but I really have not had any problems.
00:39:13
Alexis
Keeping things mode probably helps a lot.
00:39:15
Kenney Gulley
It does. Good and bad is it doesn't leave a lot of coverage for for wildlife.
00:39:18
Alexis
Yeah.
00:39:20
Kenney Gulley
That's that's true.
00:39:20
Jessica
you
00:39:20
Plant People
Yeah. It's one of those things that can, I mean, bowl damage and all the secondary things.
00:39:23
Alexis
Hmm.
00:39:25
Plant People
i mean, hand training.
00:39:26
Kenney Gulley
I do have plenty of the mold problems. I'll get plenty of that.
00:39:29
Plant People
Oh yeah.
00:39:29
Kenney Gulley
but yeah Oh, yes.
00:39:29
Plant People
Moles and bowls. Yeah.
00:39:30
Kenney Gulley
Oh, yes.
00:39:31
Plant People
I know we don't like to see, especially the bowls.
00:39:31
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:39:33
Plant People
I mean, moles are one thing and bowls are another. yeah And keeping all those things down, give the owls and hawks plenty of sight lines to come in and do their work.
00:39:35
Kenney Gulley
Yeah.
00:39:41
Plant People
And was worried when I was working with orchards or Christmas tree farms in the past when we get these snowy winters, because my goodness, I mean, voles, especially they'll get under that snow and they just have lots and lots of babies.
00:39:42
Kenney Gulley
Yep.
00:39:49
Alexis
Nice.
00:39:51
Kenney Gulley
Yep.
00:39:52
Plant People
And then we have to prepare for the fallout of that on in scenarios like yours and dealing with with those issues.
00:39:53
Kenney Gulley
Yep.
00:39:58
Kenney Gulley
Well, one of the things which I'm trying to do is I'm also planting, I'm putting some post in for the purposes of providing purchase for birds.
Support for New Farmers
00:40:07
Plant People
for raptors.
00:40:07
Kenney Gulley
Because if they want to come and land on the top of a tree, they will effectively break the leader out and then you get to go back and fix it.
00:40:12
Alexis
of the
00:40:12
Kenney Gulley
So I'm making some places for those birds to want to come and sit rather than the top of the trees.
00:40:15
Plant People
Oh, cool.
00:40:17
Alexis
nice
00:40:18
Jessica
you
00:40:18
Plant People
Good deal. So they can be your hunters and they get the benefit of not tearing things up.
00:40:22
Kenney Gulley
That's right. Try to welcome them. Yes.
00:40:25
Plant People
Yeah. Good deal.
00:40:25
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:40:26
Plant People
Good deal.
00:40:26
Alexis
So as you kind of think about the, ah ah so you know, Christmas tree industry in Kentucky in general, you know, the organization, ah what are, what would you say are some of the goals or initiatives that you guys have, you know, 2026, 2027 timeline?
00:40:32
Kenney Gulley
I think
00:40:43
Kenney Gulley
Part of the, ah i think a real charge of our organization is that we have to help young farmers be successful. and And that comes back to that educational component is that if, ah because the first year we planted trees, we planted 1,100 trees. And had an individual, why did you start so big? Why didn't you plant 100? And they figure out, well, if I planted 100 and they all died, I'd have quit. Right.
00:41:06
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:41:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:06
Kenney Gulley
I wouldn't have continued while planted 1100 and 900 done really well.
00:41:09
Alexis
I'm in it now.
00:41:10
Kenney Gulley
So I'm, Hey, let's just keep going.
00:41:11
Alexis
of
00:41:13
Kenney Gulley
um So, so that's where the education is that there are discouraged, discouraging moments in any kind of an enterprise and Christmas trees is no different. So if we help them, and I take that as a real charge is that we have to be there to offer that support to help them make decisions on what will your soil allow you to do?
00:41:33
Kenney Gulley
What are the right species? Have you set up marketing?
00:41:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:41:36
Kenney Gulley
Because as much as we like, may like to think, well, if we build it, they will come. That is not true. I don't care how great your Christmas tree farm is. If you build it and nobody knows about you, you will be unsuccessful.
00:41:47
Kenney Gulley
So there's marketing components that goes along with that as well.
00:41:47
Alexis
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:41:50
Kenney Gulley
So that's, but that's really one of the biggest charges we have is to offer those mark, these training opportunities as well as these educational opportunities to invite people to come out to our farms.
Advice for New Growers
00:42:02
Kenney Gulley
And I think that's also something we also have to help equip extension with because Let's face it, what most extension people are going to go with who's calling the the the greasy, you know, the the squeaky wheel kind of a thing. Who's making all the calls? Well, if you're looking for extension to come out and to help me, most don't have that experience.
00:42:20
Kenney Gulley
So we have to sort of offer that to support people as well.
00:42:20
Alexis
yeah
00:42:25
Kenney Gulley
But think we have to grow together.
00:42:28
Jessica
Well, what would you, as we kind of like wrap things up, what would you recommend a a new grower? What would you recommend to a new grower as they start into this like journey of growing Christmas trees? Like, is there anything, you know, you would avoid or look gorgeous?
00:42:41
Kenney Gulley
Do they have trees in the ground? Do they have trees in the ground?
00:42:45
Jessica
Do they have trees in the ground? I guess maybe be before, right?
00:42:46
Kenney Gulley
Yes. Or haven't made that choice yet.
00:42:48
Jessica
It's it's like when we get where we get that call of like, hey, I think I want to grow Christmas trees.
00:42:48
Plant People
Brand new.
00:42:51
Alexis
Yeah.
00:42:51
Plant People
Plant 1100 right off.
00:42:51
Brett
Yeah. yeah
00:42:52
Alexis
Someone's like, I want to grow Christmas trees.
00:42:53
Plant People
allirado
00:42:54
Alexis
What do i do
00:42:54
Jessica
I also appreciate earlier on when you were like talking about your acreage and what the reality you can grow. As I talked to somebody the other day who has a single acre and is wanting to do vegetables, fruit and livestock.
00:43:01
Kenney Gulley
Sure.
00:43:07
Jessica
So, so so i appreciate that about what do you got to work with?
00:43:07
Kenney Gulley
here Yeah, sure.
00:43:09
Alexis
It's ah a lot on the maker.
00:43:11
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:43:12
Jessica
Yeah.
00:43:12
Kenney Gulley
Yeah. I mean, it's a critical mass issue, isn't it? I mean, that's what i mean. If you have five acres, you can say, well, hey, I can run three cows. I can run three cow-calf units.
00:43:19
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:19
Kenney Gulley
Okay, well, I can't afford the fence. I can't afford the head shoot. I can't afford any of the stuff, you know.
00:43:22
Alexis
Hmm.
00:43:23
Kenney Gulley
but So that's really really, you do have to keep that all in in mind. How do you make it work? um If someone came to me and said, look, I'm interested in doing this, and I and i do get those phone calls, and I said, don't you come out? Just come out.
00:43:35
Kenney Gulley
And um then I'm going to introduce you to two or three more growers. And then I want you to go out there and go ask that same thousand questions that I ask. And go see how they do it, how someone else does it, and then figure out will any of that work for you.
00:43:47
Kenney Gulley
and and And be realistic with them. Here's what it's going to take for you to be successful. And here's the work that's going to be involved. um Help them open their eyes and just be realistic so they're not enthralled by that hallmark moment and you think that's all there is.
Misconceptions about Tree Farming
00:44:02
Kenney Gulley
There's more. There's more.
00:44:04
Brett
Are there, are there within that conversation, are there typically like some very common things that people hit it and they realize this isn't for me.
00:44:15
Kenney Gulley
Well, I think it's a ah the time, the labor thing, because i I really do try to be a realistic with that, is if you think all there is is that, you know, hey, I have to sell Christmas trees on Black Friday and, you know, a couple of weekends in in December, that's all there is to growing Christmas trees.
00:44:31
Kenney Gulley
i'm Hardly that. um You know, do what do what kind of land do you have? How do you do you have much labor do you have? have to go alongside you.
00:44:38
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:39
Kenney Gulley
Are you willing to hire if that's what it takes? Because there is a time that you must have trees planted. There is a time those trees must be sheared. There's a time that you have to spend out there amongst them ah evaluating, do you have a pest problem?
00:44:52
Kenney Gulley
ah Do you need water on those trees? do You know, you've just got to be out there. It takes time. And if you think you can just stick them in the ground in March and show back up in Thanksgiving and they're going tonna be ready to sell, that You know, there is no enterprise that works that way to my knowledge.
00:45:10
Kenney Gulley
So you try to be realistic.
00:45:10
Alexis
Nailed it.
00:45:12
Plant People
That is not the hallmark line that I was fed all these years, Kenny.
00:45:15
Kenney Gulley
That's correct.
00:45:15
Plant People
I just want you to know.
00:45:15
Kenney Gulley
Me either. Me either.
00:45:16
Plant People
ah just want you to know.
Upcoming Workshop Information
00:45:20
Alexis
Well, I was checking to see when this episode was going to come out and it's going to come out just in time still register for the Christmas tree planting workshop that you mentioned earlier that's going to be in Shelbyville.
00:45:20
Plant People
Great conversation.
00:45:32
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:45:33
Alexis
And that is on Saturday, March from 10 to 1. And And if you are interested, anybody listening and registering for that, you can go to the CCD's website, which we'll have in the show notes.
00:45:45
Alexis
And if you go under the news and updates tab right there at the top, you'll be able to scroll just down a little bit. I think there's a couple of news articles ahead of it for Christmas tree information.
00:45:55
Alexis
And you'll be able to click that and sign up for that. I'm not, is there a cost to that Kenny Dino? I don't think there is.
00:46:02
Kenney Gulley
No, there's not there's not.
00:46:02
Alexis
It's free.
00:46:03
Kenney Gulley
There's not a cost.
00:46:04
Alexis
Awesome.
00:46:05
Kenney Gulley
ah The Kentucky Christmas Tree Association is helping to sponsor that.
00:46:06
Alexis
Awesome.
00:46:06
Plant People
Awesome.
00:46:10
Kenney Gulley
ah Just as the same thing, just let's just make it available to as many people as possible.
00:46:11
Alexis
Awesome.
00:46:14
Kenney Gulley
You certainly do not have to be a member of the Christmas Tree Association to to be able to come to that. um It's open if somebody is just exploring, as Jessica mentioned earlier, if somebody was just wanting to find out more.
00:46:26
Kenney Gulley
that's a good place to come out and to meet some growers and actually see what's going on and the best way to approach that.
00:46:33
Alexis
Fantastic. Yeah, finding a community that's doing something you want to do or that you're trying to do is super important, especially when it's generally new to you and even when it's not and you just need somebody to complain to it.
00:46:37
Kenney Gulley
Yep. Yep.
00:46:46
Alexis
That can be really...
00:46:46
Kenney Gulley
I will still be there. ah so um'm I'm going to the same training of so I can air my grievances to the rest of them.
00:46:49
Alexis
to There you go. Go meet Kenny in person on March 14th.
00:46:55
Plant People
called therapy.
00:46:56
Alexis
But we appreciate you being with us, za Kenny, and learn all of that about Christmas trees.
00:46:56
Kenney Gulley
Yes.
00:47:02
Alexis
I'm always fascinated