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The Off-Season That Isn’t: Winter Planning for Gardeners
28 Plays1 hour ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, join the hosts in a conversation on garden and farm planning and calendars. they begin this episode with a discussion about slowing down over the holidays and what gardeners actually look forward to during winter break—whether that’s comfort food traditions, couch time with cheese boards, or a quiet walk in the woods. The discussion naturally turns toward seed catalogs, garden planning, and why winter is anything but “off-season” for plant people.
The heart of the episode dives into the often-overlooked reality of garden and farm planning calendars. From seeds and bulbs to plugs, crowns, and bare-root plants, the hosts break down why many orders for the next growing season are placed months—or even a full year—ahead of time. They explore issues like variety scarcity, pricing incentives, weather-related production risks, and the differences between home gardening and commercial-scale ordering. Practical examples—garlic, strawberries, dahlias, tulips, potatoes, and specialty crops like ginger—help illustrate how timing, flexibility, and experience all play critical roles. The takeaway is clear: successful growing starts long before planting day, and understanding the ordering timeline can save frustration, money, and missed opportunities in the garden or on the farm.
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Stress and Humor in Daily Life
00:00:17
Alexis
I just snapped my pen.
00:00:19
Plant People
I heard something break.
00:00:20
Alexis
and Sorry about that.
00:00:21
Brett
Wow.
00:00:22
Alexis
i guess you all stressed me out more than I thought.
00:00:22
Plant People
I was hoping you were not popping your knuckles. Yeah, well, job accomplished.
00:00:27
Brett
You're trying to play it cool, but
00:00:29
Alexis
I'm actually just really strong. I just don't know my own strength.
00:00:32
Brett
two things, two things can be true.
00:00:33
Plant People
The rage is strong today. The rage is strong.
00:00:37
Alexis
I have to take it out on something. um
00:00:40
Plant People
P.N.
00:00:40
Brett
I was, it it didn't like explode all over your face or anything. The ink didn't explode all over the face or anything.
00:00:45
Plant People
Not like the cartoons. Yeah.
00:00:46
Alexis
No, no.
00:00:46
Brett
Like that's,
00:00:47
Plant People
Disappointing.
00:00:49
Alexis
That would have been a real one. The YouTubers would have gotten good good video right there.
00:00:53
Plant People
it would have It would have been viral.
00:00:54
Brett
I remember chewing on pins as a kid and occasionally they would explode in your mouth and like, oh
00:00:56
Plant People
Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Been there, done that. Not good. Yeah.
00:01:02
Alexis
I think that did happen to me one time, but ah never happened again. so
00:01:08
Plant People
I don't know. When I was in school, I was a creative pencil chewer. I would, like, chew patterns into my little wood pencils.
00:01:13
Brett
Ooh.
00:01:14
Plant People
I don't know what it was. Yeah. Just, yeah, I was a pencil chewer.
00:01:17
Alexis
I had braces, so I think that like knocked out the the chewing.
00:01:18
Plant People
Oh.
00:01:21
Brett
So you would sharp, you would put it in and just sharpen the pencil.
00:01:21
Alexis
you know You can't do that.
00:01:22
Plant People
Yeah, your pencil sharpener. Yeah.
00:01:25
Alexis
I had one real gray tooth from where the worthy graphite would stick around.
00:01:25
Plant People
yeah
00:01:29
Plant People
Nice. That was that was really graphic that was a graphic.
00:01:30
Brett
Oh, that's my gray tooth. I'm going grab that.
00:01:32
Plant People
Yeah, this is my this is my pencil tooth.
00:01:35
Alexis
tooth.
00:01:36
Plant People
This is my sharpening tooth.
00:01:38
Brett
graite
00:01:38
Plant People
Yeah,
Holiday Traditions and Personal Time
00:01:39
Plant People
this is my graphite tooth.
00:01:39
Alexis
i had I had something fun to tell you all, but I don't know. Oh, I was going to ask, not tell, ask you all if there was something that you all did over.
00:01:50
Alexis
A lot of us have a break. We are fortunate in Extension to have a nice, solid break around the holidays.
00:01:55
Plant People
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:56
Alexis
And i was going to ask, like, what's something that you look forward to? Not necessarily family. Like, I mean, I hope you look forward to your family, but not all of us do sometimes, but like something that maybe is just like just for you and something you look forward to.
00:02:07
Plant People
In small doses.
00:02:12
Alexis
And you usually do over break when you have more time. Do you have something like that?
00:02:17
Brett
Yes, I have an i have an idea. ray do you have one?
00:02:21
Plant People
No, go ahead.
00:02:22
Brett
Okay, I was going to buy.
00:02:22
Plant People
I'll think of something eventually.
00:02:24
Brett
a you know but i'm ah I'm a time filler.
00:02:25
Plant People
Let it fly.
00:02:26
Brett
I buy a time. ah So Annie, my ah my wife, is she is Polish, of Polish origin from Pennsylvania.
00:02:38
Alexis
Hmm.
00:02:39
Brett
She also has a birthday on December 24th. And so... um and so Those two things now conspire to at some point in the time around Christmas time, we will make a very nice particular meal that is like of that origin. And usually we'll have some sort of like a nice fish, whether that be scallops or sea bass or some some variation on that. And we make pierogies.
00:03:10
Alexis
geese
00:03:12
Brett
And we also make sauerkraut and mushrooms, which is another thing that um that they kind of make on that. So it's this hybrid of like her special home cooked.
00:03:25
Brett
ah birthday meal, but also like that, that's a traditional Polish ah Christmas Eve meal. but That's a, that's a reinterpretation of ah traditional Polish.
00:03:36
Brett
I think the Polish one, according to our modern cultural frames would be considered a little gross, ah like canned fish and stuff like that.
00:03:43
Plant People
Yeah,
00:03:46
Brett
That's just, it's a different, it's a different vibe, but yeah, so that's something I kind of, I would say that i kind of look forward to.
00:03:51
Plant People
yeah cool.
00:03:53
Alexis
Mine is also food related and I've probably told you all before, but I am getting hyped and planning is my ah day of nothing where I just watch my shows with my charcuterie board that is huge and I eat on it all day.
00:03:53
Plant People
Kind of doing those.
00:04:12
Alexis
And I make a bunch of like little, sometimes I bake little things, but it's just like this big, giant charcuterie board all for me. And it's just, that's what I do all day.
00:04:23
Alexis
And then I just, I don't like to call it rotting. I ferment on the couch with a show and it is amazing.
00:04:30
Plant People
Sounds like you have a bit more purpose, at least with fermenting. Yeah.
00:04:33
Alexis
It's so great. It's so exciting. i get like i get to buy all the all the good cheeses and I get i usually make something and really simple, but bake something in the and I snuggle with the dogs all day and I literally do the bare minimum and it's excellent.
00:04:53
Alexis
Can't wait.
00:04:53
Brett
So when do you do you typically target a before or after Christmas for that?
00:05:00
Alexis
it's Yeah, it's post Christmas. It's usually a day that my partner goes back to work. And so that way I don't have to i' want to share. but also
00:05:09
Brett
Get out of my face, Tyler.
00:05:11
Plant People
Yeah. Get out.
00:05:12
Alexis
But also so that I don't, some if he works from home that day, I will make a little extra of everything.
00:05:12
Plant People
and These are my Cheetos.
00:05:18
Alexis
So he has one on his desk. But like the office door gets closed and I am in my own little space out in the living room and I don't fold laundry while I watch TV.
00:05:21
Plant People
Very nice of you.
00:05:29
Alexis
I do nothing. do nothing. And I just in my sweatpants, put on my cute little sweatpants. I do have a onesie that has tacos all over it. I think I wore that last year.
00:05:39
Alexis
So yeah, it's pretty.
00:05:41
Brett
i We swung by Buc-ee's recently, and they had Buc-ee's onesies. and
00:05:48
Alexis
Hmm.
00:05:49
Brett
I was not tempted, but i I feel like I know people who would be tempted, which is great great for them.
00:05:51
Alexis
yeah
00:05:56
Plant People
There's obviously a market for those things, Brett.
00:05:57
Brett
a The onesie thing makes me feel a little claustrophobic. like The idea of wearing it makes me feel a little claustrophobic.
00:06:03
Plant People
Yeah, like if I were to have an emergency, it would be a really, um ah an emergency in a onesie. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:08
Brett
Yeah, well, I...
00:06:08
Alexis
Yeah, you have a girl and rompers are a thing.
00:06:09
Brett
yeah
00:06:10
Alexis
so you know, it's pretty.
00:06:12
Plant People
No, no problem.
00:06:12
Brett
No, I don't. i don't i don't i think it for me, it's like ah it's like a deeper psychological problem. like i Like when I was a kid, and even to this day, i can't really wear mittens because I don't like the idea that my like fingers are pressed together.
00:06:27
Brett
ah it's i can like do it okay now, but when I was a kid, I like could not. I had to be straight gloves or or nothing. No mittens and similar feelings.
00:06:37
Alexis
So ah are all your socks toe socks? Now I need to know.
00:06:40
Brett
Well, and ironically, so several of my toes are webbed. So permanent.
00:06:45
Alexis
Oh, my brother has webbed toes.
00:06:47
Brett
Yeah. So anyway, that's enough about me and my deformities.
00:06:50
Alexis
Ironically, some of my toes are webbed.
00:06:51
Plant People
Oh, how did we get to start talking about web toast? How do we get here? How do we get here?
00:06:55
Brett
why did you did you Were you able to think of?
00:06:56
Alexis
What about you, Ray?
00:06:57
Brett
Yeah.
Post-Holiday Relaxation
00:06:58
Plant People
ah it's usually, I will, ah you know, it says it's always post Christmas because the holidays are very, you know, you know, very busy and it's really a time to just decompress after that. I'll usually do a walk towards the end of the year before, just before the beginning of the new year, I'll go, you know, try to go for a hike or, you know, do a little distance in the woods and kind of get away from everything.
00:07:20
Plant People
That's kind of my post-traumatic ah therapy of, you know, of just being around everybody and being overstimulated, which I love.
00:07:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:07:27
Plant People
I love all that. It's not a bad thing. But yeah, I usually try to get into the woods over a break, which i've not got I've not been really good about that here lately, but I do enjoy that, just some quiet time, and it's kind of indulgent, but that's that's what I enjoy doing, in addition to catching up on Alexis, all of my favorite shows, and sometimes it's just hard having a day without an agenda.
00:07:33
Brett
Thank you.
00:07:40
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:07:43
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:07:51
Plant People
It's kind of how I'm wired, ah and I get called out on that sometimes because I do have to-do lists, even during break, but I make it a point to to just enjoy family, our little family time with, ah you know, our wife and the kiddo.
00:07:51
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:08:05
Plant People
And it's kind of just, ah we kind of come together in quiet time. And, you know, i do like to take that hike too during that time of year.
00:08:11
Alexis
I think that's it. That's ah it's that lack of to do lists as people who constantly have one and there's always something to do.
00:08:15
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:08:18
Plant People
Yeah.
00:08:18
Alexis
And it's just like giving yourself permission to not do it. Like it doesn't matter if it needs done.
00:08:22
Plant People
Yeah.
00:08:24
Alexis
Today is my day. I'm not doing it.
00:08:26
Plant People
And there is always cheeses involved with me.
00:08:26
Alexis
And that's you can exactly.
00:08:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:08:29
Alexis
And then you pair that with cheese. I mean, hello, this is Alexis's dream.
00:08:32
Brett
Well, I, I will, I will just speak up as someone who does not have a compulsive to-do list, uh, that I am, that I am the, the light in me bows to the light in you.
00:08:32
Plant People
Brett's like, Brett had a look on his face like, what?
00:08:42
Plant People
I'm a list maker, man.
00:08:46
Alexis
pressured by.
00:08:48
Brett
And, but like, that's just a different, it's just a different vibe. Like the idea of just sitting and doing nothing is a very common thing that I do. Um,
00:08:56
Plant People
I, and I think it's, that's wonderful.
00:08:58
Alexis
I do it, but I feel guilty about it
00:09:00
Plant People
That's wonderful.
00:09:01
Brett
Oh yeah. Like I just, yeah, I just do it, man. I just, I just, I'm really good at doing nothing.
00:09:05
Plant People
and But Brett, here's the thing. See, I want a feeling in of accomplishment. So my to-do list sometimes is very short so I can accomplish it in 15 to 30 seconds and give myself the rest of the day.
00:09:13
Brett
Okay. Yeah.
00:09:18
Plant People
See, I want both. I'm like, done yes.
00:09:19
Brett
to On the to-do list, make to-do list. And there's just this loop that just is an affirmative loop.
00:09:23
Plant People
Yeah. It's a snake eating itself. And, um, Yes, it's just a self-affirmation. You know, it's like, darn it, I'm good enough. Yeah, no, that's that kind of thing. But yeah.
00:09:33
Brett
Well, I could imagine.
00:09:33
Alexis
yeah My to-do list is don't do anything.
00:09:35
Plant People
Yeah, there you go.
00:09:36
Alexis
Mission accomplished.
00:09:37
Plant People
Perfect. Perfect.
Gardening Plans and Challenges
00:09:38
Brett
Yeah. Well, I could imagine, I can imagine one thing that might be on the non to do to do list for you all when you're chilling out this time of year might be perusing some of the seed catalogs and various new varieties of fun flowers and plants and other things that might be coming up.
00:09:38
Plant People
Split the difference.
00:09:53
Plant People
Reload.
00:09:55
Brett
Um,
00:09:55
Plant People
Absolutely. absolutely
00:09:56
Alexis
I'm getting all the ah magazines already.
00:09:58
Plant People
oh gosh, the catalogs. I think they lace the pages with something because when my fingers touch garden catalogs, my pupils dilate.
00:10:00
Alexis
Yeah, catalogs.
00:10:03
Brett
laughter
00:10:06
Plant People
I'm like, what is happening?
00:10:07
Brett
laughter
00:10:07
Alexis
yeah
00:10:08
Plant People
What is happening? What is happening? i I've always said that. said, what are they lacing this print with? It's not soy-based ink. I don't know what it is.
00:10:17
Alexis
Yes. drugs
00:10:18
Plant People
Yeah, but I do start to get excited, Brett, at this time of year when, you know, they know just the timing. to just And yes, I do love getting, that's the few magazines and catalogs that I love to get in the mail still is good, colorful catalogs of plant things, seed things and plant things.
00:10:35
Brett
Well, when I was but a boy, i didn't really grow up in a family that did a lot of gardening. i mean, we did some. um People had houseplants and stuff. But I always thought of the time of year to think about gardening and planting is like April.
00:10:51
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:10:53
Brett
you know It's like maybe Easter is like, okay, it's time to get some seeds, time to get some stuff. And what I've come to realize as I've hung around with I don't know.
00:11:03
Brett
choose choose You could choose your Mad Lib, ah but psychos like you all, cool people like you all.
00:11:10
Plant People
Aficionados, psychos, fine line.
00:11:11
Brett
April, the idea of April, experts experts in the field.
00:11:13
Alexis
Experts, geniuses.
00:11:13
Plant People
who Acolytes, whatever.
00:11:17
Brett
april April might be a little late in the game to be thinking about some of this stuff.
00:11:20
Alexis
April stresses me out.
00:11:21
Brett
um
00:11:22
Plant People
First of all, Brett, it's never too late to be thinking about these things.
00:11:25
Brett
Yeah.
00:11:25
Plant People
But it is too late technically sometimes.
00:11:25
Brett
it's yeah One year's too late is another year's just early yeah or a little early.
00:11:30
Plant People
okay It's all in perspective. That's right. Yeah, yeah timing is, I mean, I tell ah garden groups when we're doing presentations and stuff and just meeting with community groups, I'm like, more than anything, to me, gardening is math.
00:11:43
Plant People
You're always doing math. You're ah either, you know, you're looking ahead, whether or not you're dealing with a transplant or a seed, but gardening is kind of math to me. It's counting days and counting degrees and all of that.
00:11:56
Plant People
That's exactly right. And know that's where i start.
00:11:57
Alexis
Yeah, I think that's one of the big reasons they like do your, you know, in in horticulture, we do like the weeks of the year is usually what we go with say, like, you know, delivery for your plugs as week, you know, 22 in the year.
00:12:05
Plant People
Hmm.
00:12:11
Alexis
And so like my calendars, that I have set up have the little weeks of the year in them as a reminder. And one of the big reasons is
00:12:17
Brett
So like New Year's, the week of New Year's Day is week one.
00:12:20
Alexis
Week one. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:21
Brett
Okay.
00:12:21
Alexis
And so um I think part of that, i mean, I'm sure there's multiple reasons, but a big one is easier math. Because if you know you need something in week 20 and you know that it's going to take, you know, 10 weeks to get there, then you need to start it in week 10.
00:12:35
Alexis
You know, so I think that a lot of that helps versus saying, OK, if I want something by March 8th and I got to backtrack it and, you know, counting and stuff.
00:12:43
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:43
Alexis
So. I swear that's one of the reasons, but yeah. Do you guys want to like talk about sort of the calendar of ordering or thinking about, you know, some of the things that we do in, you know, gardening or even kind of commercial production?
00:12:58
Alexis
Does that sound good?
00:12:59
Plant People
Yeah, because the two are kind of different, right?
00:12:59
Brett
So
00:13:01
Plant People
I mean, depending on what you're doing.
00:13:01
Alexis
Yeah.
00:13:03
Brett
so just want to take a quick vibe check.
00:13:03
Alexis
Yeah.
00:13:04
Brett
Yes, I do want to talk about this.
00:13:06
Alexis
Okay.
00:13:06
Brett
No, i know I reject your premise. Do you have another podcast episode idea?
00:13:08
Alexis
o We're not doing this.
00:13:09
Plant People
No, start again. Start again.
00:13:11
Alexis
Okay.
00:13:11
Brett
um
00:13:13
Brett
So we are recording this as of December 8th. This will come out mid-December-ish, mid-december ish mid to late December. So my question for you all is have you already ordered any podcasts seeds, plant materials, et cetera, for 2025 as of now.
00:13:31
Alexis
For 2026?
00:13:31
Plant People
probably a question, this is a war behind the game already, Alexis.
00:13:32
Brett
Or for, sorry, for 2026. Yes. Sorry.
00:13:34
Alexis
Yes.
00:13:36
Brett
sorry yeah
00:13:37
Alexis
I was like, um, it's cold outside.
00:13:39
Brett
Yes. Ordered, planted, they have died.
00:13:40
Alexis
Yes. Yes.
00:13:40
Plant People
Yeah, this is definitely a question for Alexis on this one.
00:13:42
Alexis
Yes. Yes, yes, I have. I have, I have stuff that I have already ordered that will come in in March. um I have already ordered the seeds that I will start in February and March. I ordered those earlier this year.
00:13:58
Alexis
And then of course.
00:13:58
Brett
And when you say earlier this year, when was the earliest that you ordered something that is for the 2026 growing season? As far as plant material goes.
00:14:09
Alexis
um Trying to like backtrack here with myself. For the 2026 grind season, the earliest I ordered was in August.
00:14:22
Brett
Okay. So in August of 2025, you ordered something that will be available. put into the ground some point in 2026 or put into a pod or whatever.
00:14:30
Alexis
Right. Yes. the The hard part is the tulips always mess me up because... You're planting them in a different year than they're blooming in. And so those always throw me off. But yes, something that will be planted in 2026.
00:14:46
Plant People
I guess ah a follow-up to that is this Alexis, and it kind of gets to the heart of the thing is You purchased that in my brain and not even thinking about it not knowing exactly what you purchased. You purchased it on that date. Are you basing your purchases on just hard-earned experience of scarcity or just knowing you got to plan ahead? Or are you purchasing based on when you want things to immediately come, be shipped, get there to be put in the ground or to be produced at the proper time of year or both?
00:15:16
Alexis
I think it's
00:15:21
Alexis
it's a mix of scarcity. I definitely to get certain varieties, but also having things like, so for example, some of the stuff that I ordered in August, you know, I get a better price on it if I order it certain times of the year.
00:15:25
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:15:32
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:15:33
Alexis
So there's that. If I know I want it and I know I can store it properly.
00:15:35
Plant People
So.
00:15:37
Alexis
um But for example, the earliest things that I'll start that I ordered in August, I'll start in February. So I have some seeds that I'll start in February.
00:15:43
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:15:46
Alexis
um It takes a pressure off of me to know that i have Hey guys, those are corgis.
00:15:55
Brett
It kind of scared
00:15:55
Alexis
They're really great. Everybody should have some.
00:15:57
Brett
kind of scared me
00:15:59
Plant People
The delivery guys here from August, they're like, mom, mom.
00:16:01
Alexis
I live the life of of a little bit of a jump scare all the time.
00:16:06
Plant People
They keep life lively. Love it.
00:16:10
Alexis
Yeah, they keep the blood pumping. Everybody's heart to go in there. so anyways, but Plains in February. So it also takes some pressure off of me to know I have what I want when I need it all I have to do, when I'm ready to start it, it's already there and I'm not forgotten about it.
00:16:25
Alexis
So it's kind of a mix of it. But yeah, scarcity of certain variety varieties is certainly a big thing in our in my world.
00:16:31
Plant People
Yeah. Now, when you're placing this order, do they ship right away? Or when you're ordering things, can you say, I want it shipped on this date based on my zone or whatever? Mm-hmm.
00:16:40
Alexis
Depends on what it is. So seeds usually ship pretty quickly within a month. But ah like plugs, I ordered some plugs in ah early November that I won't get until March.
00:16:52
Alexis
So but they need time to grow.
00:16:53
Plant People
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:16:54
Alexis
And, you know, I have to let the the greenhouses know that I want these things and things like that. So um there's yeah, it's kind of a a mix of stuff.
00:17:05
Plant People
And I'm guessing that you're when you say you're ordering these things, you're probably ordering not from ah like a super local source like your neighbor.
00:17:05
Brett
yeah
00:17:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:12
Plant People
You're not ordering from local green.
00:17:14
Plant People
You're talking about like national type order or international order sources.
00:17:14
Alexis
Right. Yeah, big greenhouses. Yeah, in other states.
00:17:18
Plant People
Gotcha. Okay.
00:17:19
Alexis
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:17:19
Plant People
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:17:20
Brett
Yeah, this is one of the interesting things when when there was discussions about the tariffs and the implications of the tariffs for farmers and for cut flower farmers, for instance, or for vegetable producers that like there is this
00:17:25
Plant People
Yes. Yeah.
00:17:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:32
Brett
there's both this pre-order effect with a lot of this stuff.
00:17:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:36
Brett
And there's also a, uh, lag effect with the tariff stuff. And so it's like, I don't really know as a grower, how it's going to affect me until 2026 or 2027 in some cases, depending on what it was.
00:17:44
Alexis
Yeah.
00:17:47
Alexis
Right.
00:17:48
Brett
And, uh, it's just an interesting aspect of it.
00:17:48
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:48
Alexis
Yep.
00:17:50
Brett
But I think one of the things that I wanted to talk, reasons why I wanted to talk about this in addition to you not growing up in this world, but, And having to learn it is every single year, I think to myself, I want to grow garlic this year, I need to order it.
Ordering Challenges for Gardening
00:18:08
Brett
And every single year they have been sold out for a while, of seed garlic.
00:18:12
Plant People
First of all, that garlic's an odd one anyways. that's I mean, not odd, but it's at a time we're not thinking about things usually in the Brit. Yeah.
00:18:21
Brett
Well, even ah even i I think, oh, if this is early enough.
00:18:22
Plant People
Even with that.
00:18:24
Brett
This is early enough for me to have remembered. Nope. Everywhere is sold out.
00:18:28
Plant People
Garlic is notorious for that. What is up with that? And I used to have some local sources here in Kentucky and for whatever reason, they're no longer producing.
00:18:34
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:35
Plant People
And then I suffered from that, Brett. I mean, I've had programs for years on garlic, but my, the local sources went out. And so I had to order for more national sources.
00:18:44
Brett
Yep.
00:18:45
Plant People
And that hit me. I was like, oh gosh, I did not order early enough because i I was out of tune with the rhythm apparently, or I don't know who's growing garlic, whoever they are.
00:18:52
Brett
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:18:54
Plant People
They're growing a lot of it because I couldn't get any that year. Because my local sources went out and I couldn't get them.
00:18:57
Brett
What?
00:18:59
Brett
Yeah. And so like that, that would be a good example of like a first one. And then we'll keep we can walk through some of the other ones as well. um that So garlic, you're generally planting it at some point, September-ish, August, September, October, or something like that.
00:19:14
Brett
You're putting a a little bulb, a little clove of garlic in the ground, and then it will grow as if by magic into this little green set of tendrils that will grow up and then grow across the course of the year.
00:19:14
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:25
Brett
And then you will harvest it the following summer, July-ish. Yeah.
00:19:30
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:31
Brett
All of that sounds great. And it does sound great to me, except for Brett forgets to order these things, because as you were saying, Ray, you you don't order it and then they ship it the next day.
00:19:41
Brett
And then you you know you order it ah September 1st, they ship it the next day, and then you put it in at some point when you feel
00:19:42
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:48
Brett
when it feels right, you instead have to order it in like May, April, May, June, the latest met June.
00:19:54
Plant People
yeah
00:19:56
Brett
But I usually remember about June 30th and I'm like, perfect. This will, nope. So um you put your order in and then they wait and they they will ship it to you in December.
00:20:06
Brett
But if you haven't called dibs with your credit card on the internet, you probably aren't going to be getting any that year And so that that's that this lag thing. It's the same way with seeds, right?
00:20:17
Brett
I mean, you all can speak to it about like, if you if you got your eye on some kind of either a commercial quantity of something or a specialty variety, wit when when's too late?
00:20:27
Plant People
The varieties are the biggest thing. Yeah.
00:20:29
Brett
when You know, what's the, what what makes you, what what date makes you nervous for that? Yeah.
00:20:35
Alexis
For seeds. I think it depends if it's a spring or a fall seed. ah So like I have, I usually do two seed orders, two seed dates um just to like keep my stocks fresh.
00:20:50
Alexis
so I order once in August and that August is for my fall planted or very early spring, like that February, March seeding dates. And then I'll often order again in January or February.
00:21:03
Alexis
And that will be for my, a lot of my summer stuff. And It changes a little bit from year to year, but like I give myself kind of a backup of January, February, but I know that I, ah that stuff's not going planted until maybe May or June.
00:21:16
Alexis
So, but yeah.
00:21:18
Plant People
And also be prepared. um it's We're not talking about seeds here, but I'm thinking about specifically another crop, ah transplants, and that's strawberries.
00:21:29
Plant People
um I used to order from a great order source, and half the production area was in Canada and half was in the north extreme northern U.S.
00:21:29
Alexis
Yeah.
00:21:39
Plant People
And i would I knew exactly when to place my order. But remember, we're working, especially with transplants, it's a little bit different than seeds because These things are dug and shipped fairly quickly to keep them super fresh when they get to the producers.
00:21:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:21:51
Plant People
You've done due diligence. You know when you need to order. You place the order and everything's locked in. well this nursery, I don't know, ah for a good percent, at least 25% of the time, um would experience like extremely hard, harsh winters when the ground would be frozen.
00:22:10
Plant People
And so even though you did everything correctly, just remember that if you're ordering things like blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, those things have to be dug. And even though you've done everything correct on your end, there's going to be years where it may not go according to your timeline.
00:22:19
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:26
Plant People
Commercial people, I think if you have some experience, you know that. But if you're new to higher level of production to commercial production, just be prepared to be flexible on your end.
00:22:38
Plant People
And it's sometimes frustrating for new producers that even though they did everything correctly, those strawberries may arrive four weeks later than They should have, depending on where they're dug in the country, depending on what's going on with the weather, how wet or how cold it is.
00:22:51
Plant People
But there's a big difference in seeds, which tends to be harvested ahead of time, a little bit more control.
00:22:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:57
Plant People
But when you're talking about like, you know, rootstocks or, you know, like I said, strawberries strawberries, things like that, whole different ballgame, whole different ballgame.
00:23:05
Alexis
Same with bulbs, corms, and tubers.
00:23:07
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:23:08
Plant People
Is it?
00:23:09
Alexis
So it's like dahlias, tulips, amaryllis, you know, a lot of those like, so I mean, they are dug most of the time pretty far ahead of when, um you know, they're shipped necessarily, but there can be, you know, big order or there can be, you know,
00:23:11
Plant People
Is it like that also?
00:23:19
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Hmm.
00:23:28
Alexis
big weather issues that affected. So like tulips are a really good example. Tulips are something that we cannot produce on a commercial scale to a tulip bulbs in the United States. They're coming from overseas.
00:23:40
Alexis
And there was a lot of, you know, they got a lot of rain in their springs over the past few years. And so ah there was shortages. And so, you know, they, these commercial producers can assume hey, we've planted this many bulbs, we should you know get this you know x amount that we should be able to ship, but then they get them and the quality is not up to standards.
00:23:59
Alexis
or you know some of them rotted in the fields or whatever it is. So you've got to be flexible when ordering larger quantities. But even even smaller quantities, sometimes you know looking for a substitution, um similar color or something like that is very normal for some of these orders.
00:24:18
Alexis
They just don't. And that's what you want. You know you want to purchase from a place that has high standards for their quality. And so I'd rather them say like, This just didn't meet the standards.
00:24:29
Alexis
Do you want something different or your money back? But you can do everything right and order on time and order the minimum, you know, the right amounts and still not get something that you planned for.
00:24:34
Plant People
Yeah.
00:24:39
Alexis
So that can be, that was really hard on me.
00:24:40
Brett
Yeah.
00:24:42
Alexis
I know in my first year, especially when I'm like ordering things,
00:24:42
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:46
Alexis
Commercial quantity, like I'm ordering the minimums, but they're the minimums, you know, they're not like there's not enough buffer for me. So like if I didn't have a hundred and I needed white and they didn't have any white and I was only ordering a hundred to begin with, you know, you can't really sub another white, right?
00:24:52
Plant People
yeah
00:25:01
Alexis
Like there was only really one option for that. And so making that up, that was something I learned pretty early from, again, that commercial scale was, i don't want to say like over-ordering for the sake of over-ordering, but kind of assuming that you're going to have some um some failure in that in that ordering process. And so how are you going to meet your minimums, you know, in another way? That was kind of a...
00:25:28
Alexis
That was a tough one in the first couple of years.
00:25:28
Brett
Yeah.
00:25:29
Alexis
I was like, oh, i have half of my order and i can't, there are no more, you know, I can't just say, oh, okay, give me more pink because there were no pink.
00:25:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:38
Alexis
Everybody had already bought them. Right. So like that was a struggle the first couple of years.
00:25:40
Brett
Yeah.
00:25:42
Plant People
I mean, we're dealing with living systems and it's very weather dependent.
00:25:43
Brett
it's Yeah. that's fun
00:25:46
Plant People
I mean, that's tough. That's really tough.
00:25:47
Alexis
Yeah.
00:25:48
Brett
you the first I remember the first time when I was ordering a lot like a lot of seeds for trials or whatever, um and it first clicked for me that like so when you order that seed, it didn't come from the seed factory.
00:25:48
Alexis
Yeah.
00:26:03
Brett
At one point, that was literally inside.
00:26:03
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:05
Brett
There are there are farms that are so just growing for seed in order to produce a seed that has that particular characteristic or whatever. and so When you order that tomato seed,
00:26:16
Brett
eight, 10 months ago, it was inside of a tomato fruit growing on the vine. And like, just, I think that that's, again, you all are more plant people from the jump. But for me, it was one of those click moments of like, this is speculative.
00:26:30
Brett
All of this is projecting ahead.
00:26:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:26:32
Brett
We think based on this, based on this, based on this, but we have bad weather.
00:26:33
Plant People
yeah
00:26:35
Brett
We lose stuff to rot. We lose stuff to whatever, or even just the seeds. They just don't produce as many seeds because the, the, The plants aren't as healthy for one reason or another is ah is a whole other aspect to it as well.
00:26:47
Brett
So all those caveats aside, um all we can do is our best to to plan on. So at this point, we're again in mid-December-ish. um I can say there are people, there are many commercial producers who have placed some seed orders for their spring seed already.
00:27:07
Brett
There are some seed suppliers that are already sold out of some variety. Don't panic. but there are some seed seed companies that are sold out of some varieties of things that are really popular because, because there are farms in the country that are buying, they they have a ah contract or or, sort of like a, a deal or whatever with a particular company.
00:27:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:27:21
Plant People
Thank you.
00:27:26
Brett
And that company specifies what varieties they want them to grow. And they need 50,000 of that or a hundred thousand of that. And so like that, there are levels to this game of seed stuff, but so.
00:27:37
Alexis
Or that it's a new variety too, that like, you know, if I'm, I'll use Johnny's as an example, just because they're a well-known thing and they do can't speak apparently suddenly, they do a lot of their own breeding there.
00:27:40
Brett
Hmm.
00:27:52
Alexis
And so they bred and released some new Xenia varieties. Well, Xenias in Kentucky are not getting planted until, you know, let's say mid-May, early to mid-May.
00:28:03
Alexis
what they sold out of that seed. So if you would plant it May, 2026, they were sold out of some of those new varieties by August, 2025, right?
00:28:13
Alexis
So like you've got these sellouts if they're new varieties and they have a lot of seed, but everybody wanted it, right? And so there's, normally I wouldn't buy Xenia seeds early, but they had things I wanted.
00:28:25
Alexis
So I had to buy them early.
00:28:27
Brett
Yeah, because in ah in a business situation, you are talking about this nasty little thing called cash flow where you have to have bought stuff.
00:28:34
Alexis
Hmm?
00:28:36
Brett
with money that you maybe don't yet have, or, you know, take money out of reserves, whatever to, to do that. If you're, if you're just doing this for fun, you might, you might want to just go ahead and get stuff as early as you possibly can and get on their, their mailing lists and receive the, ah the updates about when stock is posted and all that kind of stuff.
00:28:54
Brett
But I think generally speaking, even, even crazy people like you all, December, January, February seems like a typical time to order some seeds for like a traditional garden,
00:29:05
Alexis
Totally.
00:29:06
Brett
That sort of thing.
Securing Desired Varieties in Gardening
00:29:07
Brett
So what about if we if we kind of move forward into the year, Alexis?
00:29:07
Alexis
Yeah.
00:29:11
Brett
What other kind of stuff do we should we be thinking about?
00:29:13
Alexis
So if we think about sort of that March or February, March timeline, Things have changed a little bit over the past couple of years from like ah a bulb standpoint. We used to say bulbs and corms. So i was specifically in this case talking about tulips, ranunculus, anemone. You know, I'm the flower person, so that's where my mind goes. But I just wanted to let you know, we used to say buy it when it's blooming. And so when your tulips just start to bloom, you should be in your brain thinking, I need to go buy for the next year, right? For my order that will come in this fall to bloom in the the following season. So it was a little bit complicated. But you if you remembered, I need to buy it when it's blooming, then you'd be golden. And that's still mostly true. But it's gotten earlier and earlier each year, i think because of the just the amount of people wanting to grow larger quantities because weather has been not so great. So
00:30:11
Alexis
Late February now is when we start looking for those emails that are saying like things are are loose and what they're talking about. And they'll put in some preliminary numbers. So if you're like, I have to have this one color, that's when you're going to order it.
00:30:25
Alexis
Um, you also in February, March timeline, looking at things like potatoes, uh, you're going to want to start looking at, which potatoes is the one I never get early enough.
00:30:37
Alexis
So I just get whatever's left and I'm like, let's try these fingerlings, um, or weird colors or whatever, which is fun, but, uh, I never remember.
00:30:41
Brett
Yeah. you You can buy right now, Johnny's as one example, there's a bunch of different ones. They they have their seed potato purchasing live now.
00:30:53
Brett
You can buy you know different lots and they yeah they will ship, it says here ships late March to early April.
00:30:53
Alexis
Yes. Yeah. You're not going to get them until late spring. Yeah.
00:31:01
Brett
Some of them might ship a little earlier than that, but yeah.
00:31:02
Alexis
No, you go
00:31:05
Brett
So if you're if you're an early bird, if you want to just knock it out and get it over with, if you you cannot wait, if your your cabin fever's already set in, it's okay. you can ah
00:31:13
Alexis
ahead.
00:31:13
Brett
You can grab that stuff now even.
00:31:16
Alexis
um escape
00:31:16
Plant People
And if you guys, oh, good sorry, go ahead, Alexis.
00:31:19
Alexis
no you go ahead
00:31:20
Plant People
I was just going to ask ah to to even add another layer of complexity. Sometimes what we deal with locally is you're dealing with two sets of schedules. You are dealing with seeds, so you have to order those and think about getting those in a certain amount of time.
00:31:33
Plant People
But you're also working with custom growers, like a greenhouse, for instance. You may not be growing your own transplants, but you have to purchase and deliver the seeds to the greenhouse. I don't know if any of you guys have ever worked with someone like that, but you have to be careful with those schedules too. And that mostly applies to commercial producers if you're getting you know plants custom grown.
00:31:55
Plant People
A lot of times they say, well, you know, deliver the tomato seeds and then we will grow them. So you're working with multiple levels of schedules and you have to work with the greenhouses.
00:32:01
Alexis
Right.
00:32:05
Plant People
If you're going to have somebody grow like a special transplant, ah you know, a special variety of a tomato or pepper or whatever. Uh, so you have to get with those people sometimes months and months and months in advance because they have a finite amount of, you know, shelf space, um, you know, to put things out.
00:32:24
Plant People
So be very aware of that, that if you want special things grown and you're not growing them yourselves, you may even have to go even farther out in talking and, you know, uh, getting, uh, organized, uh, a space for some local producer to actually grow, you know, the transplants that you're going to be doing.
00:32:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:32:41
Plant People
So, Keep that in mind too.
00:32:42
Alexis
yeah
00:32:42
Plant People
That's even more lead time. Do you ever get into those scenarios, you guys, at Alexis?
00:32:48
Alexis
Yeah. If you want to, I'll tell you through my timeline as we kind of go through the months, just to kind of keep it like a little more structured that way.
00:32:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:56
Alexis
um I know like people listening are probably thinking, okay, what do I need to be doing in the month?
00:32:59
Plant People
Yeah. Lay it out and chronologically.
00:33:00
Alexis
So thinking about, yeah. So thinking about, again, going back to kind of March, maybe late February, again, your zone might dictate this a little bit. So if you're saying, oh, well, I always order mine and you know, January.
00:33:12
Alexis
Well, then keep doing what you're doing. That's great. We're just trying to give you an idea.
00:33:15
Plant People
If it's working, yeah. Oops.
00:33:16
Alexis
if you if you're like Brett or me, who's always like thinking they're on time, but actually are not for ordering some of this stuff. um Asparagus, sweet potatoes in that, you know, March, February-ish timeline, depending on your zone, um can play.
00:33:32
Brett
And if you're ordering those, what are what is it that you're ordering?
00:33:36
Alexis
You're ordering...
00:33:37
Brett
Is it slips or is it like, what is the plant?
00:33:37
Alexis
Sweet potatoes are probably...
00:33:39
Brett
What is the, is it a asparagus seed or
00:33:42
Alexis
yeah Sweet potatoes would be slips. Potatoes would be quote unquote seed potatoes, which is but they're chunks of tomato.
00:33:48
Plant People
potatoes crown yeah
00:33:49
Brett
Junks are tighter.
00:33:49
Alexis
And asparagus is a root, usually a ah ah not planted, what's the word I'm looking for? we
00:33:57
Brett
Rooted cutting.
00:33:58
Alexis
No, it doesn't have soil on it. It's a crown. Yeah, but it doesn't have soil, any soil attached to it.
00:33:58
Plant People
it's a a crown yeah oh bear root yeah yeah yeah
00:34:02
Brett
Mm. Mm.
00:34:04
Alexis
Yeah, it's a bare root. Thank you. I was like, there's a word. um So you're looking at those again. and also in that timeline, another root type of situation would be any of your brambles.
00:34:16
Alexis
So like raspberries, blackberries, things like that. You can look into blueberries as well at that timeline. but you know ordering them early so they're going to come to you when you need them.
00:34:28
Alexis
And dahlias. Dahlias, some people will sell them in the fall. A lot of growers are starting to do that because then they don't have to store them and then the storage is on you, which is very smart in a lot of ways.
00:34:36
Brett
yeah
00:34:40
Alexis
But some most people start putting their things online in that February-March timeline because they're about done dividing and they kind of know what kind of what their stock looks like. So If you're wanting to get some more rare dahlias or large quantities of one, that would usually be your timeline to order.
00:34:57
Alexis
But again, some people have already ordered theirs from various places that are a little more consistent on what they know they'll have. So yeah.
00:35:06
Brett
So in the game of risk, the name, the term hot potato has been replaced by wet Dahlia. Like who's going to get stuck with the wet Dahlia, the hot potato.
00:35:14
Plant People
It doesn't have the same flow, Brett.
00:35:16
Brett
And we we'll see.
00:35:16
Plant People
<unk>t have the I mean, maybe it'll catch on.
00:35:18
Brett
I mean, we'll just have. Yeah.
00:35:19
Plant People
Maybe it'll catch on. Hmm.
00:35:20
Alexis
We'll see. Wet dahlia sounds gross because they, like potatoes, they're like grody. They smell bad.
00:35:27
Brett
Yeah, well, you don't want it. You don't want that. You don't want to get stuck with the wet Dahlia because storing it is a risky, can be a risky proposition that maybe the thing won't be viable next year.
00:35:30
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:35
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:37
Brett
Anyway, sorry.
00:35:39
Alexis
So that's kind of like the things I think about in the springtime. Is there anything else you all have ordered in the spring?
00:35:46
Brett
Here's an oddball one ah that we do have people grow on a very small commercial scale that you want to be ordering probably now that would ship pretty soon is seed ginger.
00:35:47
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:58
Brett
And people are growing that in high tunnels.
00:35:59
Plant People
Uh.
00:35:59
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:01
Brett
so so So ginger basically has this crazy long um season. And so we're able to use high tunnels and supplemental heat and a variety of other things. It's kind of, it's a complicated, can be a complicated thing to grow, but it's also ultra high value for certain markets.
00:36:16
Brett
And so basically you're you're trying to get those in and get them started in one way or another very, very soon in order to then ah grow them in in the high tunnel for the but majority of the season and then even late so that in the fall you'd be able to harvest them.
00:36:31
Brett
And you can, you used to have to order ginger like a full year ahead of time. So like you would order now for...
00:36:37
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:39
Brett
spring of 2027. believe that the seed stock is more available now than it once was. Um, so that's pretty cool, but, uh, I don't even know how you would get stuck in that loop of being too early.
00:36:51
Brett
I guess you would just decide when you were going to buy it and then just put in your order. And then three years later, you'd be able to grow some ginger, but, um,
00:36:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:37:00
Alexis
It took me years to get, I was getting the tulip ginger, which is not the edible kind. And it took me years because it would, the only place you could order it in the U S opened up on like January 2nd at, you know, 8 AM.
00:37:13
Alexis
m And if you weren't there by eight Oh five, it was gone. And so I was, yep.
00:37:17
Brett
You were at the fruit and vegetable conference. You couldn't buy it.
00:37:20
Alexis
Yep. I always missed it So now there's more growers and it's easier to find.
00:37:24
Brett
Like Taylor Swift, Taylor Swift tickets and seed ginger. Those are the things you got to get in line for.
00:37:27
Alexis
And ginger man.
00:37:29
Plant People
Got to hit that time limit.
00:37:33
Alexis
Cool.
00:37:33
Brett
Um, I don't think there's anything else. Um, I mean like if you, if you were going to, this kind of along the r lines of what Ray said about like the specialty, um, growing, like if you were going to order transplants for someone, even not provide the seed, they may, they were probably taking orders now, not maybe maybe not now, but in January, February ish, um, just depending on, you know, kind of what scale you're operating at, but you, you likely would have had conversations already with them.
00:38:00
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:38:01
Brett
i say we I say we charge forward to beyond beyond this window.
00:38:01
Alexis
Yep.
00:38:03
Alexis
good so So April, I don't really have anything listed necessarily. April tends to be the time, like go time. Like everybody's busy planting the stuff they ordered, sowing the seeds, you know, like doing all that stuff.
00:38:12
Brett
Yeah.
00:38:16
Alexis
So luckily it's, I say this loosely, but you know, looking at it on the all the stuff I wrote down, your really busy times when you're doing a lot of that planting luckily often doesn't overlap with the ordering type of thing um it certainly has in the past but i think it's a little bit more spread out where you're doing a lot of that ordering when you're not as busy outside which is really nice um there are a few things that do overlap but that's really nice so april i don't really have anything which is nice may goes back to that like garlic if you want certain varieties of garlic get in there um
00:38:31
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:38:51
Alexis
or know know where to get it from. This year I got mine from the ah the Mennonite group and they had it really late and it was the variety I wanted and it was awesome. So, cause I forgot to order mine.
00:39:02
Brett
That's great.
00:39:03
Alexis
So that was great, but...
00:39:03
Brett
Yeah. it Part of the part of the reason for that, too, is that the the type of garlic that in general that we like to grow here, which is their hardneck varieties, meaning that they produce scapes, they're not it's not the garlic you get in the grocery store.
00:39:18
Alexis
yeah
00:39:19
Brett
um because that stuff grows better in other places. So as a result, the seed stock is not, there's not as much seed stock because it's not the primary commercial garlic in the United States. And you have farms, you know, small, and they're not small farms, but farms that aren't growing hundreds of acres of garlic competing over this, you know, limited hard, hardneck seed stock. But um yeah, it's, it's just a,
00:39:45
Brett
it's It's a very peculiar thing. ah And again, I have a lot of personal regret over the years, years of, of missing the boat.
00:39:51
Plant People
A lot of anxiety there.
00:39:54
Brett
So yeah, I would even start, get on that list.
00:39:54
Alexis
Years of missing the garlic boat.
00:39:57
Brett
get You know, you can get an alert for when this item's back in stock and then just order it April, May do as I say, not as I have done.
00:40:07
Alexis
Um, okay. So then moving in into, uh,
00:40:10
Brett
Any no flower stuff that you're ordering in May, like May, June ish.
00:40:14
Alexis
no, not usually, because you've already ordered your stuff for the fall, a lot of your stuff for the fall, not everything, but a lot of it. Uh, and you're just kind of in go mode. Uh, again, there's it going to be those of you in a different zone than me who may say differently.
00:40:27
Alexis
Um, so I'm just mostly talking about, uh, you know, our Kentucky seven, six, you know, zones in there. So, um,
00:40:36
Brett
And june June, July, you're starting to get into when you're going to start starting some of your fall seed that you ordered way back in January, too.
00:40:42
Alexis
Yep.
00:40:43
Brett
So there's always something to do.
00:40:43
Alexis
Right. Right. Yeah. And ah June and into July is when I do start thinking about any fall plugs, specifically plug production. Because remember how Ray was saying you're going to get with a greenhouse that's going to grow for you um months in advance, right? Because they may have to purchase the seed and then they have to grow the thing and then it has to be shipped to you. So there's you know several weeks depending on what you're growing, worth of time that has to go into these, you getting these plugs. So I'm usually ordering in June or July for a September plant date.
00:41:18
Alexis
And those are for plug production. They're arriving, I'm putting them immediately into the ground. So those are the kind of things. In July, i also start ordering any of my amaryllis or paper whites to be able to get the quantities and the colors that I want. So if you're ordering more than one, um usually, you know, or you're ordering more than five, I should say, amaryllis, then you should start looking at ordering them in around July for them to be delivered in around October to have them for Christmas blooms.
00:41:51
Alexis
Yeah, cool.
00:41:52
Brett
Yeah, no no notes.
00:41:52
Alexis
And Ray called ray called me and um Ray, you were you had scheduled, it you wanted to schedule a class doing amaryllis. And it was like October.
00:42:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:03
Alexis
And he was like, where do you get your amaryllis from? And I told him all my ah but spots. And he was like, okay, there are none. And I was like, yeah, no, bro.
00:42:09
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:11
Alexis
You were able to find some paper whites though, right?
00:42:12
Plant People
Yeah, a lot of those. the Yeah, some narcissists.
00:42:14
Alexis
Um, there's a lot, paper whites are a type of, basically a type of daffodil and narcissus.
00:42:15
Plant People
I was able to do that.
00:42:20
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:20
Alexis
And so they're, they're, they store really well. They are, they don't rot very easily. There's a bunch of good things that happen for them. So they usually are more readily available. Um, but amaryllis tend to be a little bit more difficult.
00:42:31
Alexis
And then in August, yeah.
00:42:33
Brett
but before you Before moving on there, I think one one thing we have sort of mentioned off and on, and this is it's different now than it used to be, but ah for july June, July-ish is probably when you're going to want to think about ordering ah strawberry plugs if you're going to do fall planted um strawberry production in like a ah plastic culture system.
00:42:54
Plant People
Yeah, commercial production.
00:42:59
Brett
However, there is a new emerging ah disease threat in the strawberry world.
00:43:05
Alexis
yeah.
00:43:05
Brett
Some of that coming ah maybe from plug suppliers. It's called neopestal. They call it neopest for short because morons like me can't pronounce it.
00:43:14
Plant People
Neopass.
00:43:16
Brett
But um talk to your extension agent. Talk to your you know your extension folks have heard of this. It's ah it's a disease that is very, causes major problems and you don't want to get that in your field from ah plug source.
00:43:28
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:29
Brett
But under normal conditions, typically June, July is when you're going to be ordering some of your plugs to then put in in September.
00:43:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:43:37
Brett
That's a different timeline from like a matted row installation. But anyway, August.
00:43:43
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. So August again is when I start ordering. i do usually my first big bulk seed order. And a lot of that is because I get things cheaper.
00:43:53
Alexis
I also want what I want. And so I don't want to miss out on something when a lot of those new year seeds are released. So there's like a scarcity thing there. But mostly it's I get a discount if I order before the end of August for a lot of places.
00:44:08
Alexis
ah And I want those seeds if I need to start them super early. I don't want to have to wait on them. So I want them sitting there. And by super early, I usually mean, you know, like January, February.
00:44:19
Alexis
There are some stuff that you can start. Mm
00:44:22
Brett
We don't have to go go way down this rabbit hole, but is there a consideration too of like, you you have it within a business context, you have money on hand to buy the stuff in August compared to some other times of year?
00:44:24
Alexis
hmm.
00:44:31
Alexis
Yeah, so
00:44:37
Brett
and Or is that not something that, I don't because ah like with the weddings and the deposits and the all the different things, I don't know how that exactly works in your, but that's a real consideration and in the commercial sphere.
00:44:46
Alexis
yeah so Yeah, um cut flowers, I mean, cash flow is always a thing, but there're a lot of the stuff time you're ordering stuff, and you may be ordering it when you have lots of cash flow, but you're not going to have them delivered until it's cold and you have less cash flow, so you're to have to save that money separately anyways, but...
Financial Planning in Gardening
00:45:08
Alexis
what order So tulips are a great example. i'm good I might be ordering them in um you know February, March. I've got CSA built up money. i've got I'm about to enter cash right of spring season.
00:45:21
Alexis
But I'm 99% of the time not paying for them then because we don't know if my tulip order is going to come through. They all might die. Right? Right.
00:45:28
Brett
they They charge you when it when it officially packs and ships.
00:45:31
Alexis
They charge me when it ships, correct.
00:45:32
Plant People
Um.
00:45:33
Alexis
But what I do get is an estimate of how much that's going to cost.
00:45:34
Brett
Got it.
00:45:37
Alexis
And so it might not include shipping.
00:45:38
Brett
Okay.
00:45:39
Alexis
It definitely didn't include tariffs this year. So those were additional charges that were unexpected, which did hit farmers hard because we didn't know they were going to be there.
00:45:42
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:45:48
Alexis
um But I can say, okay, I need to set back $2,000 for when they're going to ship to me in November or whatever that timeline is. So that is...
00:45:59
Alexis
uh, nice because I can, I have a few months to set that money aside. You know, maybe I put another couple hundred ah dollars back each month for when they ship.
00:46:03
Brett
Yeah.
00:46:08
Alexis
Now plugs, depending on who you buy through, um are a mix. They may not charge you till they ship. They may charge you upfront. And then if things die, they just refund you.
00:46:19
Alexis
it just kind of depends. Um, And I think that does play a little bit into who I order from. So certain times a year, i may order from the place that won't charge me till they ship because I know I'm going to have a little more money in the bank at that time.
00:46:33
Alexis
ah So I think some of it is personal preference, at least in the flower world.
00:46:33
Brett
yeah
00:46:38
Alexis
I think vegetables... are a little bit more upfront with how like how quickly they are um charging you. But yeah, I mean, like i you'll have a ah small commercial flower grower, small scale, will still put in thousands of dollars worth of orders in February and March that they don't pay for until October and November. um And so they kind of say they have time to save that money up, which is nice.
00:47:06
Brett
but it's a way to call dibs on the stock to say, okay, i'm kind of I'm locking in a price in essence, even though it's not guaranteed that all of these will ship and I can use it as a projection tool for my business to make sure that, okay, I know that i know this is how much my fall planting is going to cost.
00:47:08
Alexis
Right.
00:47:13
Alexis
Yes.
00:47:15
Alexis
Right. with them
00:47:23
Brett
So this is how I need to structure pricing or whatever.
00:47:27
Plant People
Yeah, and i did I hear you say that there is pricing incentive in certain cases by ordering early?
00:47:27
Alexis
Right.
00:47:33
Plant People
i mean,
00:47:34
Alexis
Yeah, some and ah some catalogs do it, some don't.
00:47:34
Plant People
yeah
00:47:37
Alexis
um I just happen to buy mine from a place that'll give some incentive. So ah yeah, and sometimes with like strawberries and garlic, you'll see that.
00:47:41
Plant People
Yeah, nice.
00:47:45
Alexis
Just again, it just depends um on who it is. But yeah, so August is your fall early seeds. Also, if you're doing any type of ah Christmas greenery, which I know is not a plant and it's more on a different edge, but I wanted to throw it in there because anything that is around the Christmas holiday that you may be providing, whether that's you're providing, you know, ah greenery and wreaths or so something like that, they order berries, you know, stuff like that. um
00:48:17
Alexis
Order it in August or you might not get it. You probably won't get it or you definitely won't get it for a good price. They definitely do have ah a price breakdown after August. So, yeah.
00:48:28
Alexis
That's just a little thing that I think a lot of people don't think about is it's August. Why am I ordering for Christmas? so
00:48:34
Plant People
Yeah, it seems like there's a lot of nuances. The more special the specialty crop, the more niche it is, the more you have to kind of get your hands in the dirt and really get personal experience with ordering small, specialized quantities of things.
00:48:39
Alexis
Yeah.
00:48:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:48:49
Plant People
And I think greenery for me, falls into that category where you have, in some cases, you even develop over time a relationship with an order source. And that also gives you a leg up.
00:48:57
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:49:00
Plant People
But some of those places, the only way to get that information, yeah, they'll send an order form at a certain time of the year. And it's no joke.
00:49:06
Alexis
Yeah.
00:49:07
Plant People
If they say, please, to get the best selection order by the end of June, end of July, do that. Especially with small production companies, smaller production companies, the more local ah places, you know, state-based places and stuff. Because their quantities truly are limited. It's not marketing hop. You need to get your orders in early.
00:49:27
Brett
Yeah. and I'll just mention too, we haven't talked much about the nursery landscape kind of side of things. They operate on generally speaking, even longer lead times ahead as far as plant stock and
00:49:38
Plant People
Yeah, the dig cycles.
00:49:39
Alexis
Yeah, years.
00:49:41
Brett
It's always like a kind of a baffling thing to me sometimes that like you will see a tree for sale for like $80 in a nursery. And that tree was started and has been grown for like 10 years.
00:49:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:49:56
Brett
Like there was this 10 year butterfly effect of this thing growing in a pot that led to this moment.
00:50:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:50:01
Brett
And somehow it only accrued $80 worth of value. Anyway, but that's, you don't need to tell someone 10 years ahead that you need the plants, but um In general, the the lead times are even longer for a lot of the nursery industry, and it's a whole other different way of thinking about everything.
00:50:13
Plant People
yeah
00:50:17
Brett
um So maybe we'll figure out a way to get somebody on who can speak really intelligently about that.
00:50:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:50:21
Plant People
i worked I worked some in the ah dig business. That was one of my first, what I call real jobs. And i I did some digging for a company and we grew a lot. You know, I say a lot for Kentucky, you know, a few thousand shrubs and a few few thousand trees up to a certain caliber.
00:50:37
Plant People
And those orders were placed two to three years in advance. If they were, you know, because we were a local local order source and we were speculating ahead, but to lock in certain prices, that we felt comfortable with on the dig side.
00:50:42
Alexis
then
00:50:50
Plant People
But those orders, yeah, went in 18 to 24 months minimum. So you're looking at, we looked at them as dig cycles. So two to three dig cycles ahead, you know, those things were basically sold.
00:51:02
Plant People
Otherwise on, you know, the nursery end, we couldn't make it work. You wanted, it in fact, you know, that's what we wanted. Everything sold three years out. So. Yeah, it gets a little tricky when you're dealing with local sources.
00:51:13
Brett
Yeah.
00:51:16
Plant People
ah Now, we were a smaller operation, but we you know had high quality, larger plants. And and that was it it depends on the model. But once again, people were always surprised when they would call and want 10 of this or 20 that.
00:51:27
Plant People
and they're like, what do you mean? You're already sold out. I'm like, well, we don't have any of those.
00:51:31
Alexis
were sold out for next year.
00:51:33
Plant People
Yes, for next year, the next cycle.
00:51:35
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:35
Plant People
Yeah, that's exactly right. so And that's what I would guess I was getting at for those local order sources. If in doubt, just call early.
00:51:41
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:51:43
Plant People
Call early for some of these things, especially these long-term things, you know, these perennial plants that, like Brett said, and my goodness, they go through several years of production before the final sales point.
00:51:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:51:56
Plant People
So, yeah.
00:51:56
Brett
Well, you'll have people who are the, they're the stock growers, then they you have the grafters who will then, and then you'll have people who grow it on from there.
00:51:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:52:02
Plant People
Yes. It's all different.
00:52:04
Brett
Like there's a whole, there's, there's this industry that's really, really complex and very, very interesting ah that leads to you getting that boxwood or juniper or whatever in your, um in your, in your yard.
00:52:06
Plant People
A whole chain. Yeah.
00:52:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:16
Brett
And yeah I think it's a, Obviously I'm interested in it, but I think it's a massively underappreciated industry and like the, like the way the impact it has on our lives, but also just how complex and and efficient it can be.
00:52:29
Brett
But anyway, won't go down that rabbit hole too much.
00:52:31
Plant People
Well, now it's tough but because you don't know what's going to blow up on TikTok.
00:52:31
Brett
Alexis.
00:52:35
Plant People
Alexis, and you have both, I mean, you don't know what's going to blow up on the social media platforms.
00:52:35
Brett
Yeah.
00:52:39
Brett
Yeah. Some crazy like variegated pine.
00:52:39
Alexis
Yeah, which houseplant.
00:52:39
Plant People
And yes, yes, yeah.
00:52:41
Brett
It's like, Oh great.
00:52:42
Alexis
Yeah.
00:52:42
Brett
We'll respond in five years, five years from now, we will have a three, three inch tree that you can put in your backyard.
00:52:44
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:47
Plant People
yeah That's it.
00:52:47
Alexis
Right. Right.
00:52:48
Plant People
Yeah, exactly. That is, and people are, they're like, oh I want that.
00:52:49
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah, it's huge, like the Dahlia world too. Like people will post these photos and it's like, like what you don't know is that was a random seedling.
00:52:53
Plant People
yeah is it?
00:52:59
Alexis
We don't know, like it takes years to make sure that it's true to type.
00:52:59
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:01
Brett
I have no idea.
00:53:03
Alexis
And so there's like at least two years of that. And then you got to build up stock of it. And then you got you know, like there's so much that goes into it.
00:53:09
Plant People
It's a rubber band effect. and but And as a grower, you hope that when you have all of that stock, that the trends have not moved on to something else.
00:53:11
Alexis
Yeah.
00:53:11
Brett
and
00:53:16
Brett
Totally. That's what I was going to say.
00:53:16
Alexis
Right, right.
00:53:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:53:17
Alexis
Yeah.
00:53:18
Brett
you you Nobody really benefits from it because they don't have enough stock to even sell enough of it to make a bunch of money in the first place, unless you're going full on Tulip Mania vibes and you can sell it for like, you know, a million dollars for one bulb or something like they did back in the day.
00:53:26
Plant People
Yeah.
00:53:33
Alexis
right
00:53:34
Plant People
Yeah.
00:53:34
Brett
But um anyway, Alexis, September.
00:53:35
Plant People
yeah
00:53:37
Alexis
all right so yeah September i don't I don't tend to do anything in September again because I'm usually in planting mode so all those things I ordered all those seeds I started luckily I get a little break from my brain and I then get to put them in the ground for the most part is that been your all's experience in the veg world as well
00:53:56
Brett
Yeah, I mean, you're you're going to put your garlic in. You're probably starting to think of, ah we didn't mention cover crop seed, but you know ordering cover crop seed earlier in the summer, if not even a little earlier, depending on if you have room to store it.
00:54:05
Alexis
Yeah,
00:54:08
Brett
ah But yeah, I think and putting in your strawberries that you ordered in June, July, you're putting those in first.
00:54:14
Alexis
it's kind of more planting mode.
00:54:16
Alexis
not necessarily ordering mode and then get it into October. if you're interested in doing any grafting of fruit trees, um, a lot of that stuff, I mean, even, I don't know if you can be early enough, um,
00:54:17
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:54:32
Plant People
Roots.goes so quickly.
00:54:34
Brett
you
00:54:34
Plant People
Yeah.
00:54:35
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. so again, we're talking about rootstock and scion wood, which is the actual variety of apple or fruit, whatever that you want. You're not going to be doing that until March, usually, February, March timeline. But ordering it, sometimes October can even be kind of late, but it's a lot of these places had...
00:54:55
Alexis
set order so when i used to do it at the extension office we just had a set order they knew they were going to send me x amount of root stock uh every year and so sometimes that can be hard to beat but some of these smaller nurseries don't necessarily do that and they will you know you can put in an order with them um they usually do have minimums so working with a group to meet that minimum unless you do want to graft a hundred trees i mean some people do that that's fine um but you know have a friend or the extension office or the garden club or whatever, who may maybe want to go in on an order with you.
00:55:32
Alexis
So thinking about that in October and then,
00:55:34
Brett
I think in general, when you decide, okay, here's some things that I'm thinking about doing in the next year or two, Let people in your orbit know that you're thinking about doing those so that when group orders, when collaborative purchasing becomes a possibility or put it in people's heads that it is a possibility.
00:55:53
Brett
There could be people who hadn't thought about doing ah fruit tree grafting, but because you took the lead and said, yeah, I'm going to be doing some, can we put together an order and all get a good deal that they take interest and and want to do that.
00:55:53
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:56:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:56:04
Brett
I think that that that is ah a smart play in general, just manifest, it's a way of manifesting your desires into the world in a way that might actually, you know, come back to to help you.
00:56:13
Alexis
I love it. We're manifesting. in It's end of the year. And then ah November is when I start ordering usually before Thanksgiving.
00:56:16
Brett
That's right.
00:56:21
Alexis
Thanksgiving is kind of like my timeline. I got to get it in before Thanksgiving. I'm going to be ordering ah plugs that will go in in early spring. So things that I'm going to plant in about March um ah or, you know, March, April timeline, I'm going to order before Thanksgiving.
00:56:36
Alexis
So
00:56:36
Brett
And that includes what?
00:56:38
Alexis
ah For me, that's Lisianthus because they take so long to grow and I do not want to grow them myself. So Lisianthus is the big one um that I make sure to do. Some of the others, I might wait a little longer, but that's a big one.
00:56:52
Brett
Yeah. It's like some of your cooler seasoned vegetable stuff. If you're going to do, if you want to do cabbage or broccoli or whatever transplants and you're wanting somebody to grow them for you want them grow a specific variety, thinking about this is good.
00:56:56
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:04
Brett
It gets back to Ray's comment about having that conversation early and making sure, and even having the conversation before you're going to order it to make sure that they're not going to say what we can't do that when you then talk to them.
00:57:16
Brett
But, but you're ordering from a place that, that specifically is set up to sell plugs.
00:57:20
Alexis
Right. They only grow plugs.
00:57:21
Brett
Right.
00:57:22
Alexis
Yes.
00:57:23
Alexis
Yeah.
00:57:23
Brett
you You didn't have to like navigate that.
00:57:25
Brett
Like I want you, they they're telling you we're growing this.
00:57:25
Alexis
and
00:57:25
Plant People
Yeah. That middle man.
00:57:26
Alexis
No, they're a big national seller of plugs.
00:57:28
Brett
Yeah. I gotcha.
00:57:31
Alexis
That's what they do. So they have a list of things and I order from their list is what it's like.
00:57:36
Brett
And that, that pretty much brings us all the way around the calendar to almost now.
00:57:37
Alexis
And then... No.
00:57:40
Brett
And was there something else you were going to?
00:57:41
Alexis
No.
00:57:42
Plant People
When are you supposed to catch a break for all this stuff?
00:57:42
Alexis
No, I was going to say and then in December. Okay.
00:57:44
Plant People
I thought we were taking a break around Christmas, Alexis. Doesn't sound like there's a lot of break time in there.
00:57:49
Alexis
I mean, December and January is dreaming months.
00:57:52
Plant People
ah little break in there. Okay.
00:57:53
Alexis
They're dream months is what I like to call them. um You know, December, it's like I let go of all the things that didn't work. And I think about all the things I'm going to do. And you get a clean, fresh slate every year, as long as you didn't get neopest in your in your strawberry field because that stuff will stay.
00:58:11
Alexis
um And so you get a fresh slate. I think that's the best part about like farming and gardening is that like there's this whole new clean slate to start over with, at least for the most part.
00:58:22
Alexis
And that is so exciting. So December, we let things go.
00:58:25
Brett
but And that,
00:58:27
Alexis
January, we plan for success.
00:58:30
Brett
I think also that, I mean, that goes for your successes and your failures.
00:58:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:58:35
Brett
No matter what, whether you would like that season to have gone on forever and this was the best you've ever done with x y or Z, you still have to start the cycle all over again.
00:58:43
Alexis
Start over.
00:58:45
Brett
and And that's where some of those best practices and having your timelines lined up.
00:58:46
Alexis
Hope for the best.
00:58:50
Brett
for when you're going to order stuff so you don't forget and you get the best deals and all that kind of stuff comes in where you're like, okay, great. I can't i can't take my my success from last year forward, but I can do things better to set myself up for success this year.
00:59:03
Brett
I think it's, yeah, both
Adapting to Gardening Cycles
00:59:05
Alexis
Yeah. it the It's a snowball that just doesn't stop. Like once you get started on the cycle, the cycle starts to make sense. And then you just you just let it keep going.
00:59:05
Brett
successes and failures are in the past now.
00:59:15
Alexis
You just roll with it.
00:59:16
Plant People
It's like a rhythm.
00:59:16
Brett
Yeah.
00:59:17
Alexis
And then, yeah yeah, there's a rhythm to the madness. And um it feels a lot less daunting after you've done it one or two times. So hang in there if you're scared.
00:59:27
Brett
This conversation makes me want to do ah ah similar like um propagation calendar through the year.
00:59:35
Alexis
Yeah, I love propagation.
00:59:36
Brett
You know, like grafting and cuttings, hardwood cutting, softwood cuttings, all that kind of fun stuff. It could be could be a cool, a cool little chat.
00:59:44
Alexis
I love it.
00:59:46
Brett
Awesome.
00:59:47
Alexis
Love it. Well, cool.
00:59:47
Brett
Well, so so get out there and order your seeds.
00:59:48
Alexis
Well, yeah, go order seeds.
00:59:50
Plant People
Do it now.
00:59:51
Alexis
um
00:59:52
Plant People
Sooner rather than later.
00:59:53
Alexis
Well, ah maybe I can make up some sort of easy graphic to throw up on our Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast with these reminders because, you know, you may inevitably be somewhere where you're not writing things down as I am when I'm usually listening to podcasts. So I'll see what I can do about working up a graphic. If you go follow us at Hort Culture Podcast on Instagram, and that would be great. If you've got questions about any of this, please feel free to reach out on our email. That's in the show notes.
01:00:21
Alexis
But we thank you for being here. You'll hear some... um different episodes as we, you know, manage the ah holiday season and kind of a slower time for all of us being with family. So we'll still have episodes out for you. They just may be a little bit, little bit different with only a couple of us or, you know, be bopping around here and there. So we hope you enjoy those and we hope you enjoy ah this winter season, but thanks for being here with us and we hope you will join us next time.
01:00:46
Alexis
See ya.
01:00:50
Plant People
Mm-hmm.