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Succession Planning: Securing the Future of Your Operation
94 Plays8 days ago
In this episode, the Hort Culture team are joined by a full panel of guests: Hunter-Anne, and Spencer from KCARD, along with Dr. Steve Isaacs from the Agricultural Economics Department. Together, they dive into one of the most critical—and often overlooked—challenges in horticulture: succession planning.
The conversation explores the realities of generational transition in horticulture businesses, including the emotional, financial, and operational complexities involved. Speakers highlight how succession is not just about handing off ownership, but about preserving knowledge, maintaining relationships, and ensuring long-term business sustainability.
Key themes include:
- Early Planning is Essential: Waiting too long to plan for succession can create instability. Proactive strategies help avoid rushed or forced transitions.
- Communication Matters: Open dialogue between current owners, family members, and potential successors is critical to aligning expectations and avoiding conflict.
- Training the Next Generation: Preparing successors involves more than technical skills—it requires leadership development, decision-making experience, and industry awareness.
- Financial and Legal Considerations: Structuring ownership transfer, valuing the business, and navigating tax implications are all vital components of a successful plan.
- Non-Family Transitions: The episode also addresses alternatives to family succession, including employee ownership and external buyers, which are becoming more common in the industry.
The episode emphasizes that succession planning is ultimately about legacy—ensuring that businesses, relationships, and expertise continue to thrive beyond the current generation.
Listeners walk away with a deeper understanding of how thoughtful, intentional planning can safeguard the future of horticulture operations and support the next wave of industry leaders.
Kentucky Center for Agriculture and Rural Development (KCARD)
University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension Service
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Icebreaker
00:00:17
Alexis
Welcome to another episode and we hope wherever you are you are warm and it's spring-like and you're not too hot and the wind isn't smacking Yeah, not too warm.
00:00:23
brett
But not too warm, not too warm.
00:00:27
Alexis
i said warm, not hot. Okay.
00:00:29
brett
I was sweating earlier and that was concerning.
00:00:29
Alexis
Yeah.
00:00:31
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:00:32
Plant People
Glistening even glistening.
00:00:32
Alexis
ah
00:00:35
Alexis
Well, ah we are joined. We have a full room today. We are we have three wonderful guests today. so we have Hunter, Anne, and Spencer from KCARD and Dr. Steve Isaacs from the Ag Economics Department.
00:00:46
Alexis
So we're happy to have all of them on there and If you've been listening for a while, you know that we've had K-Card on a couple times. So we've got some great episodes by then and more to come today.
00:00:57
Alexis
But I do have question for all of you. Here is here's our icebreaker.
00:01:01
brett
and
00:01:02
Alexis
And if you're a listener, i want you to also answer this question, see who you who you relate to If you were a berry, what kind of berry would you be?
00:01:09
Plant People
at
00:01:13
Plant People
I'm trying to think of the weirdest, of ah ra a raspberry.
00:01:13
Alexis
i would be a raspberry.
00:01:17
Alexis
oh gold I want to be a golden raspberry specifically case anybody wondered.
00:01:20
Plant People
Of course you do.
00:01:22
Alexis
yeah
00:01:22
brett
no one was wondering No one was wondering.
00:01:22
Plant People
Why raspberry?
00:01:24
brett
Everyone already knew.
00:01:24
Alexis
You don't know that.
00:01:25
Plant People
I mean,
00:01:26
Alexis
You don't know what our listeners were wondering. i would be a golden raspberry.
00:01:29
brett
and more about You're more of a bronze raspberry.
00:01:31
Plant People
yeah
00:01:33
Alexis
Wow. i' After the Olympics just passed, I feel I'm a little offended by that, that you don't think I would win gold, but but not but not the top of the podium, Brett.
00:01:37
brett
You're on the podium. You're on the podium.
00:01:42
Alexis
But it's fine.
00:01:42
brett
Yeah, well.
00:01:43
Alexis
I mean, whatever.
00:01:44
Plant People
You placed so good enough.
00:01:44
Steve Isaacs
Okay. I'd be, I'd be at the Huckleberry Hound.
00:01:45
Plant People
So a golden raspberry. Okay. There you go. Huckleberry.
00:01:50
brett
Well,
00:01:51
Plant People
Huckleberry is a good one. Yeah.
00:01:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:01:53
Plant People
That's sort of one on the fringe.
00:01:53
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:01:54
Plant People
I like it.
00:01:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:01:56
Plant People
i like it. Brett, what do you got?
00:01:59
brett
but I'd like to hear from from Hunter Ann. Looks like she's ready with a berry.
00:02:02
Alexis
I know. She was, like, rubbing her hands together.
00:02:03
Hunter Anne
I'm thinking that like this is a first.
00:02:04
Alexis
She's like, Classic.
00:02:08
Hunter Anne
I've never been asked such a question.
00:02:10
Plant People
such a weird introduction.
00:02:11
Hunter Anne
ah
00:02:12
Plant People
You're welcome.
00:02:12
Hunter Anne
hello
00:02:14
Plant People
Thank you, Alexis.
00:02:14
Hunter Anne
yeah I guess ah I'm gonna say a strawberry, because that's probably what I'm the most excited for when they're finally in season.
00:02:22
brett
and what
00:02:22
Hunter Anne
was like, we gotta to go now.
00:02:23
Alexis
Yes.
00:02:25
brett
I would nominate strawberry for the biggest gap in amazing flavor between local and non-local berries.
00:02:33
Plant People
Okay.
00:02:33
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:34
Hunter Anne
Oh, I agree with that 100%.
00:02:35
brett
Like it, it might be, it might be the biggest gap.
00:02:35
Hunter Anne
There we go.
00:02:37
brett
I don't know. Oh,
00:02:38
Plant People
So bring in that local flavor. Yeah.
00:02:40
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Spencer?
00:02:43
Spencer Guinn
So I had to look it up because it's been a while since I've had, enjoyed one of these berries.
00:02:45
brett
oh
00:02:47
Plant People
He's got something.
00:02:49
Spencer Guinn
But you ever hear of a Marion berry?
00:02:52
Alexis
No?
00:02:53
Plant People
Is that a ground berry? Is it one of the ground?
00:02:55
Spencer Guinn
So it's from the, they only grow, they only grow, what's that?
00:02:55
Steve Isaacs
I thought that was a mayor of DC.
00:02:55
Plant People
one
00:02:57
brett
laughter laughter
00:02:57
Plant People
and Mayor Marion.
00:03:01
brett
laughter
00:03:02
Spencer Guinn
I'm pretty sure that's what they're called. They only grow in the Williamette Valley in Oregon and Washington.
00:03:09
Plant People
Oh, wow.
00:03:10
Spencer Guinn
And it's like the best pie I've ever eaten.
00:03:11
Alexis
All right.
00:03:13
Spencer Guinn
um
00:03:14
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:03:14
Plant People
A Marionberry. I'll have to look that up.
00:03:15
Spencer Guinn
Marionberry.
00:03:16
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:16
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:03:17
Plant People
but And it's a very site specific. It sounds like. Yeah.
00:03:20
Spencer Guinn
Very much so.
00:03:21
Alexis
I definitely pulled pulled up the mayor of District Columbia.
00:03:21
Spencer Guinn
Because I tried to bring plants home with me and they wouldn't allow it. So what was that, Alexis?
00:03:27
brett
I just wondered if, I wonder if that was a, day it was a berry that you don't just go on a couple of dates with, but you actually, you know, right put a ring and yeah, that's, that's a Marion berry right there.
00:03:33
Plant People
Oh, it's Marion material. Oh gosh. Brett. Brett. Wow.
00:03:38
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:03:39
Plant People
Oh man.
00:03:39
Alexis
It says it is a hybrid blackberry ah created in Oregon in the 1940s.
00:03:42
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:03:43
brett
Hmm.
00:03:44
Plant People
Okay.
00:03:44
Alexis
Great for pies.
00:03:46
Plant People
Pies.
00:03:46
brett
and
00:03:46
Alexis
so
00:03:46
Plant People
So it sounds like it's got its niche.
00:03:46
Spencer Guinn
It's a fantastic pie.
00:03:47
Hunter Anne
That's it. Okay.
00:03:49
Spencer Guinn
worth Worth the travel to Oregon.
00:03:51
Plant People
Yeah. Worth the trip. It sounds like awesome.
00:03:54
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:03:54
brett
Ray, you're going to pull out some folksy thing that's going to make me...
00:03:54
Plant People
Awesome.
00:03:57
Plant People
oh There's so many good ones. I forget the ones which I'm not going to pick last year, Alexis, we saw fields of them. They were real bitter. Oh, what was the berry? Wasn't gooseberries.
00:04:06
Alexis
The Aron- The, um, hug no.
00:04:08
brett
Aronia?
00:04:08
Plant People
It wasn't.
00:04:09
brett
Like currents?
00:04:10
Plant People
Not huckleberries.
00:04:10
Alexis
I thought, yeah, they were currents. They were currents.
00:04:13
Plant People
Currents, yes. They, you know, they've they've got that look, but you got to watch them.
00:04:14
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:04:18
Plant People
You got to approach carefully because
Farm Succession and Transition
00:04:20
Plant People
but they're not as good as they seem. So, yeah, currents. i I think we had black currents and every manner of current. But yes, looks can be deceiving, I guess, is where I'm going with that.
00:04:31
Plant People
Yes.
00:04:31
Alexis
So Ray's raised claim to fame is, I'm not as good as I seem.
00:04:35
Plant People
No, no.
00:04:36
Steve Isaacs
Thank you.
00:04:36
Plant People
And that's a pretty low bar and I'm underachieving under that. So perfect. But those berries, yeah. I was kind of surprised. Beautiful berries and they had a whole farm of them.
00:04:45
Alexis
they They are pretty, yes.
00:04:46
Plant People
And i qui I kept asking myself, why do they have whole farm of these? We tried, maybe they did.
00:04:50
Alexis
They made good ice cream, though.
00:04:52
Plant People
We tried 30 varieties and my face was contorted as if, you know, something bad had happened at the end of that trip.
00:04:59
brett
So confirmed, if you put it with a bunch of sugar and fat, it is delicious.
00:04:59
Plant People
So, yes.
00:05:04
Alexis
It's delicious.
00:05:04
brett
Well, that's good.
00:05:05
Plant People
Kind of like a Marion Berry, kind of like a Marion Berry, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So that' that's it.
00:05:09
Alexis
All right, Brett.
00:05:10
Plant People
That's it.
00:05:11
brett
I like to think of myself as
00:05:12
Steve Isaacs
brett that's Brett, that's my thing about rhubarb. There's not enough sugar in the state of Kentucky to make rhubarb edible.
00:05:17
Plant People
But you mix it with strawberries and enough sugar and you've got magic, Steve.
00:05:18
Steve Isaacs
if
00:05:21
Plant People
You've got magic.
00:05:21
Steve Isaacs
that That helps. That helps.
00:05:24
Spencer Guinn
I don't know. It's still questionable at best for me.
00:05:26
Alexis
Okay, thank I also am kind of like, is this, this is what y'all are real excited about? Are you sure?
00:05:34
brett
Yeah, I think it's like, it's botanic resilience makes people just like, we got to figure out something to do because this thing is doing good.
00:05:40
Plant People
Yeah, we, I mean, it grows. It keeps growing.
00:05:42
brett
Yeah.
00:05:42
Plant People
So, yeah.
00:05:44
brett
I mean, I think of myself as equal parts Wendell Berry and Chuck Berry, but I would say that bear, maybe an elderberry, because everybody says, you know, says that it's good and beneficial, but it's kind of an acquired taste.
00:05:47
Plant People
Oh, my goodness.
00:05:49
Alexis
Mwmwmw
00:05:55
Plant People
Okay, that's a good one.
00:05:56
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:06:01
brett
Yeah.
00:06:01
Plant People
So you're like the wisest of the berries, you're the elderberry.
00:06:04
brett
as I didn't think about it that way, but yeah, I'm feeling more and more like an elderberry.
00:06:07
Plant People
That's your wizard name.
00:06:08
brett
Yeah. with it And you know, so it likes to spend time in an agroecological context with other trees.
00:06:09
Plant People
I can see that being a nickname for you, elderberry. Just make a t-shirt, put it on there.
00:06:15
brett
I love spending time with trees. So
00:06:18
Alexis
yeah
00:06:18
Plant People
An ecosystem approach.
00:06:19
Steve Isaacs
ah You've quit preaching and gone to meddling. I am the elderberry here today.
00:06:24
Plant People
The elderberry.
00:06:25
brett
the eldest berry, it's going to be like the Marion berry of elderberries in Kentucky.
00:06:26
Hunter Anne
yeah
00:06:29
Plant People
yes
00:06:29
Spencer Guinn
There you go.
00:06:30
brett
Yeah.
00:06:31
Plant People
We have covered a lot of ground with this Barry talk.
00:06:31
brett
so
00:06:33
Plant People
I mean, I've got two or three ideals I'm going to have to research after this.
00:06:37
Alexis
Okay, so you're welcome.
00:06:37
brett
Yeah.
00:06:38
Alexis
Please stop judging my question so harshly because I don't know what I'm doing.
00:06:39
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:41
brett
I loved to that question. That was a good, that, that was a good hort culture question.
00:06:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:45
brett
um Well, one of the things about a lot of berries is they're perennialized. ah So they're going to be there, especially brambles can be there for a long time. And the thing about us humans is that we're not always going to be here for a long time.
00:07:00
brett
And so if you're putting in some berries You may be thinking, well, somebody down the road, some it's my my kids or my grandkids or whatever, are going to be picking these berries and thinking of me.
00:07:12
brett
Doesn't always exactly work out that way. um So Steve gave a presentation at our ah fruit and veggie conference, horticulture conference in Kentucky about farm transition. And it's been a topic.
00:07:25
brett
and Lots of people have been thinking about and talking about, you've seen statistics about the age of farmers and the shrinking farm, selling off of farmland, all these things happening across time. And so we decided to pull these three amazing folks in to talk a little bit about this.
00:07:39
brett
how Who's going to take care of the brambles when I'm gone and all the other things, including the farm that they're located on. um And so like I think maybe it would be helpful just to start out.
00:07:52
brett
How long have you all been working in this farm transition space? what What are your, what's your involvement with it? Maybe we'll start, we'll start with Steve and then, and then maybe move to Hunter Ann and then to Spencer.
00:08:03
Steve Isaacs
ah Oh, probably for the last 10 to 15 years of my extension career, this has been one of the bigger things that I have been working on. and it's It's kind of like being in the funeral home business.
00:08:11
Hunter Anne
Thank you.
00:08:12
Steve Isaacs
You know, you got you got it's recession proof. You you always got an audience out here. ah So ah but the yeah, it's been something I've done here out of state some. But yeah, and it's it's ah applicable to everybody.
00:08:26
Steve Isaacs
I mean, at a at a.
00:08:26
brett
You know,
00:08:28
Steve Isaacs
pretty good size venue a couple of years ago. Somebody asked, what's the most unpopular thing about this? I said, well, you're all going to die. So, so yeah, it it is.
00:08:34
brett
with our
00:08:34
Plant People
Oh, that's a strong opener.
00:08:36
Steve Isaacs
yeah
00:08:37
Plant People
That's real strong.
00:08:38
Steve Isaacs
it It is, isn't it, though? Yeah, that sets the stage.
00:08:39
Plant People
It is a strong opener, yeah.
00:08:43
Steve Isaacs
Now that that cheery thought's out of the way.
00:08:43
brett
you know with our
00:08:45
Alexis
I'm sorry.
00:08:46
brett
With our botanical names, we like the ah Latin, you know, the Asclepius tuberosa and things like that.
00:08:51
Hunter Anne
you
00:08:52
brett
But this is sort of the memento mori version of that. Remember that you too are mortal. So you've been, you you what what are the kind of the places and ways that you've engaged with this across time, Steve?
00:09:05
Steve Isaacs
Well, since I'm an extension state extension specialist, it's been a lot of county meetings, multi-county sessions. ah Oftentimes they would be sort of sequential or half day or full day and try to bring some other folks in because I am not the professional in the room.
00:09:20
Steve Isaacs
I am not. the attorney, the accountant, the tax advisor, the financial planner.
00:09:24
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:09:25
Steve Isaacs
ah So oftentimes we would do this in some sort of a multi-meeting setting and bring in some of those professionals. Also, it has been really, really helpful to work some with our specialists over in family and consumer science because they look at this more of a family side than necessarily the farm management side, which is my approach.
00:09:37
brett
so
00:09:45
Plant People
It involves some relationships. This does, too. It's one of those things that I've seen go a lot of different ways, I guess. And Steve, ah you know, I know that, you know, you've done other programs that you ah that some others of you on the podcast today may have been involved with.
00:09:53
Hunter Anne
Thank you.
00:10:00
Plant People
But. Like, would you consider like side programs like the Kentucky Ag Leadership Program? I mean, is that really kind of somebody said that that was kind of a part of farm succession planning. was like, how is that?
00:10:11
Plant People
But they said, well, it's the future management, the management aspect. And I didn't know if you considered stuff like that kind of as ah as a part of that, too. And I had never considered it that way, that that was kind of addressing kind of the future generation, you know, sort of as far as management on the on the side.
00:10:28
Steve Isaacs
Oh, absolutely. absolutely right I think that's an interesting observation. And certainly we say that the the person, the reason for developing leaders or the the job of leaders is to raise up new leaders.
00:10:34
brett
Thank you.
00:10:39
Steve Isaacs
So that's something we're trying to do with our leadership certificate here in the college and Kentucky Ag Leadership Program.
00:10:39
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:10:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:10:45
Steve Isaacs
The other side of that, and this really raises transition side, is that ah sometimes leaders don't get out of the way when they should. so So I have this presentation called, When is a Long Time Too Long?
00:11:00
Steve Isaacs
And it deals with fossilization of leadership and in a lot of ag or rural organizations or institutions, we have people that like being there and they like the perks the job and they like the status and they tend to want to brag about the fact that, yeah, I've been this i've been in this role for 40 years.
00:11:17
Steve Isaacs
Well, if you are, you've kept two other people at least from being in that leadership role.
00:11:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:11:21
Steve Isaacs
So so that is an interesting side twist on the whole notion of transition planning and
00:11:26
Plant People
Well, when they said that, I was like, wow, this farm succession planning, ah because my first time realizing that it involves a lot of different things when you're talking about succession and some of the information I've seen from, you know, some of the other programs that those on the you know podcast today kind of.
00:11:35
brett
and
00:11:42
Plant People
we'll be talking about, I'm sure, but I was like wow, this is a big topic. It's a big topic. And that, that was the first time couple years ago when someone said that, that, ah that, that dawned on me that it's more than just asset transfer.
00:11:53
Plant People
You mentioned FCS is involved in that and all the relationships and this, that, the other.
00:11:54
Steve Isaacs
Oh, absolutely.
00:11:54
Alexis
Thank
00:11:56
Steve Isaacs
you
00:11:58
Plant People
So very cool.
00:11:59
brett
Steve, I haven't observed that fossilization of leadership, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to look it up and see if I see it anywhere.
00:12:04
Plant People
Okay. Elderberry.
00:12:05
brett
um
00:12:06
Hunter Anne
don't know.
00:12:07
brett
Hunter Ann, what about you all? for those who maybe aren't familiar with KCARD, they are truly one of the gems of our Kentucky agricultural world. um They do a lot of support for things like business planning and market research and analysis and and all kinds of direct support to producers and have been doing it for the last 25 years. Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary. But this this space of farm transition, in broad sense, you've been engaged with it for a long time through business planning and other things like that. But There's just kind of this more recent stuff that you've have been up to. what Can you tell us about that?
00:12:41
Hunter Anne
Right. And this, I came on indicate KCARD almost two years ago and very shortly after I started, that's when we started really digging into what us being more heavily involved in farm transition would look like.
00:12:58
Hunter Anne
And so that was one of my first big projects was like, go research, see where this is at and other places and did it work.
00:12:58
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:13:04
Hunter Anne
I was like, okay, I've been involved with it ever since I started at KCARD in some form. or another, but have moved more into looking at it through like I went through and Spencer just finished it up to a mediation class and learning how to tackle tough conversations and keep it all civil.
00:13:24
Hunter Anne
And we've sat through and and been engaged in farm succession coordinator trainings and learning more of how to manage again, emotions and answer family questions and handle
00:13:25
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:13:28
brett
Thank
00:13:31
Alexis
Bye.
00:13:36
Hunter Anne
mean, someone had already said it, there's there's a lot of emotion. There's a lot to tackle within more than just this transfer of assets, but we're also dealing with with people and people can be great, but they also can be their own bunch of emotions. It's hard to predict how they'll go. And so we we looked at it, how we may help manage the conversation in a highly emotional situation, but we're also kind of similar to what we would do in in a business plan, we're looking at what are people's goals?
00:14:09
Hunter Anne
What is the real, the like real, is it, I can't say it, realistic ah state of the farm and where do we want to go and how do we create the plan to help them get there?
00:14:20
Hunter Anne
So it's a similar process just in the different context.
00:14:22
brett
With.
00:14:25
Hunter Anne
But we we were already doing some transition planning when talking about business planning and development, what that looks like and the continuation of it.
00:14:33
Plant People
Thank you.
00:14:34
Hunter Anne
so it was a natural fit also with the technical assistance abilities of KCARD for us to move into this space. And so we we tackled it head on.
00:14:45
brett
with
00:14:47
brett
if If Alexis Ray and I break out into a fight, we will look to you to mediate that live on the podcast for maybe ah a demo.
00:14:52
Hunter Anne
That's right. And say, get into your corners.
00:14:55
brett
We're going to do what we can to.
00:14:56
Alexis
I don't need many meetings and I'm going to
00:14:58
Plant People
We always have equal versus is fairness.
00:14:58
brett
That sounds like someone someone who needs mediation.
00:14:59
Hunter Anne
See that exactly inside there like, okay.
00:15:02
Plant People
it ah it's a where It's a rumble always.
00:15:04
Alexis
I'm the problem.
00:15:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:05
Alexis
You're
00:15:05
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:06
brett
Well, see, you you mentioned in the.
00:15:06
Hunter Anne
yeah I'd say we got to go into different rooms.
00:15:07
brett
book
00:15:09
Hunter Anne
We'll come back later.
00:15:09
Alexis
done.
00:15:10
brett
OK.
00:15:10
Plant People
Time out, Alexis. Time out.
00:15:12
brett
Breakout rooms.
00:15:12
Plant People
Brett.
00:15:13
brett
So.
00:15:13
Hunter Anne
That's right. Yeah.
00:15:14
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:14
brett
So you you mentioned when we.
00:15:16
Steve Isaacs
um ran Is it helpful if you had control of the mute key? Would that help with mediation?
00:15:20
Hunter Anne
You know, if I could have a real life mute key, we would probably be way faster.
00:15:24
Plant People
The good
00:15:25
Alexis
you're done
00:15:27
Plant People
Yeah. Good thing about an online meeting is if something gets thrown at you, it doesn't hurt as much if you're online. maybe Maybe that could be incorporated into the meeting notes.
00:15:33
Hunter Anne
ah yeah
00:15:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:37
brett
like to approach this meeting in lecture format.
00:15:37
Hunter Anne
That's right.
00:15:39
brett
ah Please, everyone mute yourselves and I will share everything that we're going to do here. You mentioned when we were we were warming up, you were you were talking about the kind of the complementary but separate nature of estate planning and transition planning.
00:15:43
Alexis
given zero permissions.
00:15:53
brett
Can you just put a little bit of context around that and and what you what you meant by that? And I think you all are kind of landing in the transition space more, but there's implications for both.
00:16:04
Hunter Anne
And And I had always heard or wouldn't say always heard, but it hurt a lot of succession and estate planning used pretty interchangeably. But the more we were digging into this topic, specifically of transition planning, it was a realization that the we're talking about two different things or they should should be because it boils down to I'm not an attorney.
00:16:15
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:24
Steve Isaacs
you
00:16:28
Hunter Anne
I don't want to be an attorney. And there's other people that do a really good job of being an attorney and that the estate part, that is where those legal professionals come into play and they know the ins and outs of the law that surrounds estate planning.
00:16:38
brett
you.
00:16:46
Hunter Anne
And that is very much needed. but what we're looking at with the succession plan is not necessarily like the tax code and and all that fun stuff, but looking at the transition of leadership, like we're talking about sometimes when leaders have a hard time of letting go and have been there for 40 years, like there's a lot of institutional knowledge there that maybe not necessarily has ever been communicated to the younger generation.
00:17:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:13
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:17:14
Hunter Anne
And kind of think of in that space of where we're talking about where a certain piece of equipment is and how you have to hit it in just the right spot. And then it goes and then we we can we can carry on with our tasks like that stuff's not written down or in a tax code or necessarily in an estate plan.
00:17:31
Hunter Anne
ah But we can put it in our succession plan, so to speak, like what makes the farm run and work within a season or or for a particular task.
00:17:36
brett
Thank
00:17:42
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:43
Hunter Anne
But also we've all heard the conversation of like, well, I don't know. what's going to happen to the farm once it's done, if it's me, if it's so-and-so down the road or who who gets it.
00:17:54
Hunter Anne
And we can kind of help guide those conversations so the whole family knows the plan. And what I meant by like estate plan, succession plan there, they can be complimentary is we can put that succession plan or that transfer of knowledge and of roles and of leadership into the an estate plan and we've hashed all those fun fun conversations out outside of
Certified Agricultural Succession Planning Program
00:18:20
Hunter Anne
an attorney's office.
00:18:21
Hunter Anne
And again, I love the attorneys because I cannot do nor do I necessarily want to do what they do, but they are expensive and we can hash out the, the awkward conversations outside of the attorney's office without the meter running.
00:18:29
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:18:29
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:18:38
Hunter Anne
Um, that, that ends up being a much more, uh, favorable bill. at the end of all that, but also sometimes folks get nervous talking to attorneys and hashing out their family, maybe, uh, tensions in front of other people.
00:18:55
Hunter Anne
So I mean, I'm, I'm not related to them.
00:18:57
brett
Yeah.
00:19:00
Hunter Anne
I'm not their attorney or their tax professional. So it's like, you, you want to tell me the dirty laundry, I guess you can, and we'll figure out a way to navigate through it and create, uh,
00:19:06
Alexis
Hunter-Ann's like, I didn't know I was a therapist now, but apparently I am.
00:19:13
Hunter Anne
you know, have been times like, well, maybe I should should have paid attention a little bit more in certain classes when we were discussing those things.
00:19:20
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:22
Hunter Anne
But but it it is a little bit like a family therapy event session. And ah sometimes people just need to air that out. And then we can get down to the actual planning and focusing on the goal once once they've gotten whatever it is off their chest sometimes.
00:19:38
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:39
Hunter Anne
And we can move past the
00:19:42
brett
Yeah.
00:19:42
Steve Isaacs
Well, Hunter Ann, you make a really good point.
00:19:43
Hunter Anne
the grievances.
00:19:44
Steve Isaacs
that Folks, the families need to know what they want before they go for the professional
00:19:50
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:50
Hunter Anne
Right.
00:19:50
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:50
Steve Isaacs
help that's going to obviously cost them some money. So if they've got this worked out and they they have sort of a plan in in their mind, then you can pay somebody to help facilitate that.
00:19:53
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:19:58
Steve Isaacs
And you need to do that.
00:19:59
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:20:00
Steve Isaacs
So make you can make a good point.
00:20:02
Alexis
And they know who's going to come in at yeah after them, right? Like they don't just show up to the lawyer and they're like, oh yeah, my son's taking over.
00:20:06
Hunter Anne
Right.
00:20:09
Alexis
And the son's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not doing that.
00:20:11
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:20:12
Plant People
They get expensive. Yeah. The meter's running at that point. And just the value of knowing, like, for instance, what documents you need to have in place when you go to legal, you know, and, um you know, like you said, just your goals, just knowing that has a lot of value because literally time is money when you get to legal, I'm sure.
00:20:30
Plant People
And that, that, that time is not cheap in that, in that, you know, instance.
00:20:33
Hunter Anne
right
00:20:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:36
brett
I have some many friends, multiple friends who are lawyers. you know I like them and everything. But how do you, how can you tell if somebody's a lawyer? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
00:20:47
Plant People
No, they'll let you know.
00:20:47
Spencer Guinn
Ah, ha, ha, ha.
00:20:48
Hunter Anne
that was good
00:20:50
brett
And on that note, ah Spencer, i'm i
00:20:54
Plant People
It's the landing that's funny.
00:20:55
brett
this this
00:20:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:56
brett
this didn't necessarily come to happen overnight. And I'm curious, so you all have this program, um ca the CASP program, which you can tell us what that stands for. But I think there's also some groundwork that was laid before that that's built out of the reality that every estate and every transition business transition plan is going to be messy and complicated and unique.
00:21:18
brett
But agriculture really poses some specific things that are chat can be challenging. or that can you know So who are the actors, funders, people involved in that? How has this come to be that you all have this wonderful program now?
00:21:33
Spencer Guinn
Yeah, Brett, I think that's a fair question to ask. you know for For us, I've been at KCARD now for like nine years, I think.
00:21:44
Spencer Guinn
um So you'll be there long enough, next thing you know, you you're one of the senior members of the team just just by default. But um one one of the things that I think I saw a lot that kind of led up to this and and really started the conversation with some of those partners you mentioned was some of our own clients at Kcard.
00:21:52
Plant People
Elderberry. elderberry
00:22:05
Spencer Guinn
I mean, you mentioned it there, Brett. We've been been around for 25 years this year, and we've been around long enough to where our clients are starting to look at retirement.
00:22:15
Spencer Guinn
um and And what does that look like for them? You know, is that the next generation coming on? Is that selling the farm outside of the family, but we want to keep it an agricultural business? So so that's really what led us, KCARD, to be involved in this from the get-go.
00:22:15
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:32
Spencer Guinn
was all those relationships that we've established over the years. And then you talk about partners. we've We've been talking with Kentucky Farm Bureau and really when they started their Kentucky Farmland Transition and Initiative, that's really what gave this thing legs to really take off.
00:22:49
Spencer Guinn
um Eddie Melton and his team there at the state level at Bunsen Parkway, you know they they had this foresight of, you know, they they were seeing their membership change and and people coming in, coming out of the business and and asking them the questions of, hey, what am I going to do with this property or this this operation that that I've built over the last, you know, 20, 30, 40 plus years.
00:23:15
Spencer Guinn
And so that really got them involved. and
Initiating Farm Transition Conversations
00:23:20
Spencer Guinn
once once they rolled their program out, and that's about two years ago, I'm i'm probably off on the timeline, but we'll say about two or three years ago,
00:23:29
Spencer Guinn
uh that that's really where kcard started getting involved of you know kfti would have these quarterly calls that kcard would participate in of you know what what does farmland transition look like and where should we be going that was the questions farm bureau was asking that we were a part of and then next thing you know kcard's like well we we would like to be involved in this because of the questions we were already getting and then i guess you fast forward uh a little bit into the future to catch us up to where we are today.
00:24:01
Spencer Guinn
um there There was a program, it it was a certified mediation program through the US Department of Agriculture. Kentucky was liking one of those. And really what that does is it gives of FSA, all the USDA programs, really, FSA, NRCS, Rural Development, they all have a seat at the table then of if there's issues that come up through the facilitation of those programs, they can be mediated to try and resolve those issues.
00:24:32
Spencer Guinn
um KCARD said, well, we feel like this would be a role that we could serve. ah By providing that service, it also opened us up to receive funding to focus on the transition side that that we're all here talking about today.
00:24:46
Spencer Guinn
and And then I think another thing that I need to mention too is Kentucky Ag Development Board, Kentucky Office of Ag Policy.
00:24:54
Hunter Anne
Thank you.
00:24:56
Spencer Guinn
that That administration has seen, i think, also the same thing. They've been around long enough now to where they're getting the same questions KCARD was and Farm Bureau was. So it kind of brought us all full circle to say, well, how can we work together to make those things have a solution?
00:25:11
Spencer Guinn
And then you tie it in with Dr. Isaacs being here, you know, tie UK into the mix. And that's really the the full circle moment for KFTI starting the process, pulling in KCARD, pulling in UK, and then starting the certified mediation program that KCARD's a member of now.
00:25:30
Spencer Guinn
That also has, I think, Steve, if it's all right, if I mentioned that, you know, it's given the opportunity for a focused effort on UK's end, not that there hasn't been, but an actual extension specialist that's going to focus in on that has also resolved from this this programming that all three of these partners have been a part of.
00:25:47
Steve Isaacs
And Spencer, emails have been emails been flying fast and furious for the last few days, and it looks like we're going to be able to post that position perhaps by the end of this week.
00:25:55
Plant People
Oh,
00:25:56
Steve Isaacs
So that is going to be a real feather in the cap to be able to bring somebody in to and look at that all the time. That will be their job.
00:26:05
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Spencer Guinn
Yeah. ye
00:26:08
brett
Well, for the next part of this conversation, I thought I would throw some ideas out and just see, hear your all's reaction to this or things that you've come across. is one One of these it's just me straight up stealing from Steve's presentations and and talking about the idea in ah in ah navigating a transition plan. you know People are thinking about this.
00:26:31
brett
Who starts the conversation? who' Who's the one that in the family that I hesitate to say should, but let I'll just go for it, should start the conversation. and have you all seen that play out in different ways? Any thoughts on that?
00:26:48
Steve Isaacs
Well, it I love having audiences where there's a lot of gray heads in there because I put the burden on them. It's a very difficult conversation for the younger generation to start.
00:26:59
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:26:59
Steve Isaacs
But as soon as you you start the conversation, it's almost imbued with the notion of, well, what am I going to get out of this?
00:27:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:27:05
Steve Isaacs
And so I would much prefer the senior generation start this. And one of the ways I've used this as a way of killing the conversation is when the senior generation says, don't worry, I'll take care of you. That means i don't want to talk about this. So I'd say rather than say, don't worry, i'll I'll take care of you, that generation needs to be saying, here's what we're going to do. This is what we would like to do in the future. So, Brett, I'd put the burden on the older generation because it is so difficult for the younger generation to start. However, as an example, a younger generation that was having difficulty getting that started finally just said, okay, mom, let's start at the end. What songs do you want at your funeral?
00:27:47
Steve Isaacs
And then they work backwards from there.
00:27:47
Plant People
Skip to the end game. Yeah.
00:27:49
Steve Isaacs
so but So younger generation can start it, but it's it's it's much harder for them to do.
00:27:49
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:51
Hunter Anne
What?
00:27:54
Alexis
Hmm.
00:27:55
Plant People
It's interesting that, day yeah, that's the case, yeah.
00:27:55
brett
is that is that ah up Has that played out in your all's experiences? whats What's the... Yeah, I'm curious.
00:28:05
Spencer Guinn
Yeah, so I think from my side of things, and maybe it's just the the stage of life that I'm in, I'm getting i'm getting the questions from the the people who have been in the family operation for 10, 15 years out of school now. That's where I'm getting the questions from. Yeah.
00:28:24
Spencer Guinn
I think they're, and they're not looking at it from ah the greed standpoint that's been alluded to.
00:28:27
brett
Okay.
00:28:31
Spencer Guinn
They're looking at it from, I've been a part of this operation. I've helped build this operation. No disrespect to the generations before me.
00:28:36
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:28:38
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:38
Spencer Guinn
I mean, ah i'm I'm standing on their shoulders to get here, but but we've all found our lanes and and stuck to them to grow what we've got now today. But they're looking at it from the standpoint of, you know, if something happens, um do I do I still have employment?
00:28:56
Spencer Guinn
Am I still a part of the operation?
00:28:57
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:28:59
Spencer Guinn
Do I need to find another job before all this hits the fan?
00:28:59
brett
Amen.
00:29:03
Spencer Guinn
And so that's where I'm getting the questions from. I like Steve's comment about, you know, my age and younger approaching it that way to start the conversation.
00:29:16
Spencer Guinn
ah But I do feel like that it it takes some of the onus off of the, you know, those 20 to 40 year old folks, if the older generation starts it, because then it's kind of been blessed of, hey, I see this as an issue, and then I'm ready to talk about it.
00:29:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:29:30
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:29:33
Spencer Guinn
So let's have the conversation.
00:29:36
Plant People
That seems to make sense.
00:29:36
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:29:37
Plant People
ah You know, what I heard, you know, from your comments was, and I know it's not uncommon for farm families, some to be on the farm, some to be off the farm.
00:29:44
brett
Thank
00:29:44
Plant People
But let's say a certain segment of the farm family, the ones that are on the farm, yeah, they've kind of got a big dog in that fight. You know, if it's their goal to stay on the farm, I mean... And I'm sure that's one of those mediation things to square that once you get everybody to the table, ah those that are off and those that are on the farm, and that gets it to that whole equal versus fair, you know, conundrum and, you know, working out issues like that, you know, in addition to everything else. I'm sure that gets in, you know, uh,
00:30:15
Plant People
you know, to some touchy areas and and take some discussion. So it's probably just not a 30-minute session with you all that are involved with this. It takes, what, a little bit of time, I imagine, this process does.
00:30:26
brett
Thank you.
00:30:27
Hunter Anne
For sure. For sure.
00:30:28
Spencer Guinn
Yeah, it does. And and I think the the key to for listeners to to think about is it it doesn't necessarily mean that it's all in one. I mean, it's not a one.
00:30:36
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:30:37
Spencer Guinn
We don't have one conversation and it's done. It's not like you you set aside your whole day. let's Let's bite this thing off in chunks because everybody's attention span is different, right? ah How long they want to dial into something, especially when it's heavy like this one can be at the start.
00:30:50
Spencer Guinn
So let's break it up in pieces.
00:30:51
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:30:52
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:30:53
Plant People
Yeah.
00:30:54
brett
Do you have a ah typical first bite ah to take that that people tend to take or or that, you know, if you have somebody who comes and they're like, we don't we know we need help, but we don't know what help we need.
00:31:05
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:31:07
brett
What's your, you know, some some kind of like a first step that might not might not feel so overwhelming or so daunting?
00:31:15
Hunter Anne
I tell folks just start writing down your assets and how they're titled. If you don't know where to start, just start. We got, we got to know what you have first to talk about it in the sense of what, what do you hope to pass on and what, what's the plan with, but we, we have to have pretty up to date look at what, what are we talking about?
00:31:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:31:36
Hunter Anne
What all is in, in the pile, so to speak. And, and even looking at, um, And something and add Dr. Isaacs, you mentioned this, I was like, I'm going to add that to every, every PowerPoint is like looking at your digital estate and the passwords and where's everything at.
00:31:51
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:31:52
brett
um
00:31:52
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:31:54
Hunter Anne
And, and also your bank accounts and where are they at? What do you have loans out there? and What bank? And do you have someone else on your bank account that if something
00:32:08
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:32:09
Hunter Anne
tragic were to happen that they could access those accounts are kind of the first things like let's just start getting a lay of land of what even we're just talking about within this conversation and start writing it down so we can have a pretty good view of what we're looking at
00:32:26
brett
So can you...
00:32:26
Alexis
I call that my ah if I go missing folder, but I feel like I need a better, like non scary way thing to call it.
00:32:30
Hunter Anne
yeah
00:32:34
Plant People
Where's your passwords at, Alexis? Yeah.
00:32:36
Hunter Anne
me do
00:32:36
Plant People
Where's all the account passwords?
00:32:38
Alexis
Yeah, if I go missing, here's how to access everything, but I feel like it it could be more positive.
00:32:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:46
Plant People
Well, I mean, it's a hard topic to talk about to begin with, Alexis. Yeah. If you go missing...
00:32:52
brett
So the digital estate thing, I'm assuming you're not exclusively referring to those NFTs of ape pictures that I bought back in 2021 that don't have any value anymore.
00:32:52
Plant People
well
00:33:04
brett
i assume you're talking about something else. Can you expand a little bit on what what you all mean by that digital estate thing?
00:33:11
Hunter Anne
I'll tell you the first part of your question. like that That's up to you. like either i'm gonna I'm gonna let you decide how you you take care
00:33:17
brett
I kind of want to be buried with them, but I can't figure out a way to turn a digital NFT into, yeah.
00:33:19
Plant People
A digital asset.
00:33:25
Hunter Anne
know if that
00:33:25
Spencer Guinn
Flash drive. Just stick the flashcard in that or flash drive in there with you.
00:33:28
Plant People
Yeah, just your digital token, Brad, you're going to be put in with that.
00:33:29
brett
Perfect.
00:33:32
Plant People
was just kind of curious if you guys have like big categories of things when you're working with people.
00:33:32
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:33:35
Plant People
I know you guys have talked about assets and touched on management a little bit, but is there like big categories that you guys think about behind the scenes? Let's say Joe calls you up, Joe and Emily, the family, and they're, you know, they want to have this conversation.
00:33:49
Plant People
I mean, ah is there kind of categorizations you walk people through or how do you guys break it down behind the scenes for people? I mean, what's your game plan? is or Is there a kind of a game plan, a structure that you guys think your way through with people?
00:34:02
brett
Sorry.
00:34:04
Spencer Guinn
So I think it depends how the inquiry comes in. if i agree 100% with what Hunter Ann said, especially if it's an email inquiry. um you know we've we've got ah And Hunter Ann did a phenomenal job putting this together, and I still can't haven't committed to memory what it's called.
00:34:14
Plant People
don't
00:34:21
Spencer Guinn
But we've we've got kind of like a here's the how-to steps of starting the plan.
00:34:26
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Oh.
00:34:26
Spencer Guinn
And it's a worksheet that answers, you know, lists out questions, you fill in the blanks that fits you. And then we can start the conversation. Like if if it's a digital request, that's where I that's where i like to start.
00:34:39
Spencer Guinn
um You know, if it's if it's a phone call or if it's ah you see somebody out and about at a meeting and they pull you aside, you know then it kind of depends what the questions are.
00:34:49
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:34:50
Spencer Guinn
if If it's something where how do we start the conversation? A lot of times I defer back to, well, just tell me how you got here.
00:34:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:34:56
Spencer Guinn
especially if it's trying to get that that older generation to to open up and and start the conversation, start the dialogue. Because, you know, I'm a history guy anyway. I love learning the backstory to things. So, you know, give me a little bit of that. That way it's something that we've all, lived you know, at least when I say we all, everybody within that operation has lived at some form or time frame together.
00:35:20
Spencer Guinn
So that that gets everybody comfortable maybe. And then we can start diving into the harder stuff of, you know, what's what's your goals? What's next? What's the future look like in five, 10 years?
00:35:31
Steve Isaacs
So Hunter Ann, tell us a little bit about what you've got in that structured worksheet. but What are they asking
00:35:37
Hunter Anne
So i could call it the like, it's always a question of like, well, what can I start doing today? So like that's what we call it. It's like, what you can do today? um and it it does tell you to like, go start writing down, listing out those assets. But it follows our similar structure. of I think of it in terms of of buckets.
00:35:58
Hunter Anne
And our first set of questions, our first bucket we're going to tackle like, Where are you at right now? So figuring out like who all is involved in the operation? What does it look like structure wise?
00:36:13
Hunter Anne
Just kind of gathering the intel, learning the story and the history of the the farm or the operation. So we have a few questions on mainly of where you're at, like looking at what you have, like as in the physical sense on the farm.
00:36:29
Hunter Anne
Then our second kind of bucket or pot
00:36:29
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:36:32
Hunter Anne
of questions is where do you want to be?
00:36:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:36:35
Hunter Anne
and that one will start asking like, what do you see as like the top priority of your farm transition? and then that can vary. Some it's keep it a farm at all costs. Some it's, I just want my kids to get along no matter what that looks like.
00:36:50
Hunter Anne
Or it could be, i wanted to stay a farm, but doesn't have to be my kids. Like someone else can take it over, but it can be a variety of answers, but for them to start thinking about what their top priority in a transition looks like, because that that'll dictate what the conversation moving forward looks like.
00:37:11
Hunter Anne
If it's family harmony above all else, then we're going have to keep that in mind and keep redirecting the conversation towards that goal overall.
00:37:23
Hunter Anne
And then the last section of that document is How are we going to get there? So we have where, where are we at right now?
00:37:33
Hunter Anne
Where do we want to be? How do we get there? um That one, we, it's when we very gently will pass you along to the legal professionals that can make it legal and binding, but we'll discuss how to get documents ready for that process and how to find those legal professionals and kind of build that team.
00:37:35
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:37:54
Hunter Anne
But that what you can do today document kind of walks you through the listing of assets, how they're titled, things to think about as far as where pieces of property might be located or what banks have you used in the past. Then our second section of looking at those goals, long-term goals, questions to help kind of frame our conversation. um And then we'll, we talk about in the third and final part that that's more of an individualized depending on what we've developed the prior two sections and getting them ready to go on to
00:38:29
Hunter Anne
the the legal section.
00:38:33
brett
Yeah.
00:38:33
Alexis
I have a question. When is when is it, is it there such thing as it being too early to start this planning, like the succession um process?
00:38:46
Hunter Anne
You know, I used to say no, but I had someone want to have that conversation and their children were like in elementary school.
00:38:47
Steve Isaacs
good
00:38:55
Hunter Anne
was like, that's kind of hard to
00:38:55
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:38:57
Alexis
Yeah.
00:38:58
Plant People
Hard to do goal setting, smart goals with, you know, kindergartners.
00:38:58
Hunter Anne
figure out yeah so not that so now i change it to possibly depending on who we're talking about in the conversation yeah
00:39:04
Plant People
etc Yeah.
00:39:08
Alexis
Yeah.
00:39:09
Plant People
Because it really is a family kind of discussion, isn't it? is that I guess that's what you're getting at, is you want everybody to be able to be at the table and and take part in that. Is that the case? I mean, everybody that it impacts, it sounds like, yeah.
00:39:22
Steve Isaacs
Well, yes, but then Hunter M makes a good point.
00:39:22
Spencer Guinn
Yeah.
00:39:24
Steve Isaacs
You're probably there's a time when you're too young to have a you know substantial portion of that conversation.
00:39:28
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:39:28
Plant People
Yes.
00:39:28
Hunter Anne
and so
00:39:29
Plant People
Yes.
00:39:29
Steve Isaacs
But part of that conversation it does need to be had, maybe in when the eight year old is not around, is, OK, if something happens to us, what's happen with kids?
00:39:30
Plant People
Yes.
00:39:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:39:41
Steve Isaacs
I mean, that's part of the plan. Just or can you do you have a plan? in the event of bad things to be able to get them to 21 or 25. So I think it's it's if you've got kids, it's not too young or not too early to start thinking about it, even just from the standpoint of of their welfare and their future.
00:39:59
Hunter Anne
right
00:39:59
Plant People
So certain
Farming as Opportunity or Obligation
00:40:00
Plant People
aspects, I mean, think about it from like day one, if you want to certain aspects, it sounds like, because that's just good planning overall. Sounds like.
00:40:08
brett
Yeah, that ah it opens up another thing that I'm going to rip directly from the Steve Isaacs playbook here of this discussion that you frame, Steve, as asking whether or not from from the vantage point of the parent or the older generation, asking whether or not this farming life is an opportunity or an obligation.
00:40:26
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:40:31
brett
And having some real hard conversations about that. And Hunter Ann touched on that with what's your goal? How are you going to get there? is that family harmony? Is it farm keep it in farmland, but something else? Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:40:42
Steve Isaacs
Sure. I mean, it's gotten to the point here in the past few years, about every third slide in my slide deck says opportunity or obligation. And and and they I mean, families really need to have that conversation because we are, it's one of the most wonderful things and maybe sometimes the most notorious things about farm life is that we raise our kids to be farmers.
00:41:05
Steve Isaacs
You know, we start out giving them little toy tractors and all of us who grew up on a farm, that's just part of it. I didn't even know there was a term for that. I got prowling around looking at some other stuff and and psychologists have a term for that. It's called identity foreclosure.
00:41:17
Steve Isaacs
When you decide what somebody's going to do, even without their knowledge or consent or acceptance. And and it's not just farming. I mean, you could be, let's face it, you're you're probably root for a sports team because you were raised that way and you never give it a thought to do anything else.
00:41:32
Plant People
Now we're getting personal.
00:41:33
Steve Isaacs
ah Yeah, exactly.
00:41:34
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:41:35
Plant People
Yeah. Oh, man.
00:41:36
Steve Isaacs
ah so So, yeah, having that discussion early on and and not feeling like the kids are being forced to do that. If it is an opportunity and it's perceived as such, it is wonderful opportunity. But if it's an obligation, then it's not. We, you know, Deb Reed, the ag nurse that worked with many of us for years, said that sometimes in ag, one of our problems is we don't give for people people permission to do anything else. And we should be able to consider that, that it's okay. If you want to have this farm, great. If you don't, I'll encourage you in some other area. So, so yeah, it's it's identity foreclosure. It actually has a term for it now.
00:42:13
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:42:14
brett
Yeah, I think that that the the important part about that is if we're all operating under the assumption that this is an opportunity and I'm excited about it and then mom and dad die, and that's when I tell everybody, actually, I don't want to do this.
00:42:27
brett
The whole transition plan, everything has been set up under a false assumption that as we couldn't have an honest conversation before before that happened.
00:42:32
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:42:36
brett
um well i wanted to maybe you know wind us up here end up here with just an explicit ah So Hunter and Spencer, if somebody wants to get started and working with you all in the CASP program, and and can you remind us what CASP stands for?
00:42:52
Hunter Anne
Yeah.
00:42:53
brett
But if they want to get started, what does that look like? How do they kind of get the ball rolling?
00:43:01
Spencer Guinn
Yeah, so i think I've neglected to answer that whenever I started my talk there, but Kentucky Agri-Legacy Solutions Program is CAASPP. We love acronyms, so we had to we had to make this one an acronym as well.
00:43:11
Alexis
We love them.
00:43:12
brett
You threw another one in the stew.
00:43:13
Spencer Guinn
so
00:43:13
brett
I like that.
00:43:15
Spencer Guinn
yeah yeah that's right that's right um but really a couple different ways um actually three i guess i'd i'd point you three different ways depending on what your your poison was um you can start off with our our website um we've got if you go kcard.info n f o And then go to the, hold on, I'm going to have to look it up myself to make sure i tell everybody the right way.
00:43:42
Spencer Guinn
At the top right corner, whenever you open up our website, there's going to be a toolbar and it's going to say services and tools.
00:43:46
brett
Thank
00:43:51
Spencer Guinn
It's the third one over from the left. And if you go all the way to the bottom, it says transition your farm business. That's going to give you the quick rundown of what CAASPP is.
00:44:02
Spencer Guinn
and how KCARD is here to help. it It walks through a lot of those things that Hunter Ann mentioned as far as you know where are you now, where you want to be, and how do you get there. um The second thing, if you just want to reach out with an email, casp, K-A-S-P, at kcard.info.
00:44:23
Spencer Guinn
So casp, K-A-S-P, at K-C-A-R-D, dot I-N-F-O. And that's going to go to Hunter Ann.
00:44:31
Hunter Anne
Thank you.
00:44:32
Spencer Guinn
So Hunter Ann watches the email contacts that we get. The third thing that i that I have in my position at the moment is the phone number. So we have a dedicated phone number for CAASPP.
00:44:44
Spencer Guinn
And i'll I'll throw that out here at 859-417-2592. um that's the That's the three ways of getting a hold of one of us within the program.
00:44:58
Spencer Guinn
And then the other thing too, you can download the, you know, where are you at worksheet that Hunter Ann has put together. You can download that and even get started on your own before you do any of those things.
00:45:06
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:45:09
Spencer Guinn
If if you want something to do before you engage with us.
00:45:14
brett
Hunter, Ian, what does that process look like once you once the ding goes off, it's in your email inbox?
00:45:19
Steve Isaacs
so
00:45:20
brett
How how do you kind of reply? What's the first steps? What's the process? I assume you just call all the family members immediately and get on a Zoom call at that moment. with ah
00:45:28
Hunter Anne
Yes.
00:45:29
brett
No, but there's an opportunity to get slowly on-ramp to this process, right?
00:45:30
Hunter Anne
It's instant. It's amazing.
00:45:35
Hunter Anne
Right. Right. ah so generally, if I had to, we had to categorize my my emails, usually it's people that are actually wanting the main K-Card line at this moment. So I will direct, I will very nicely send this. Thank you so much.
00:45:49
Hunter Anne
And pass them onto the correct avenue. But um a lot of times what, if someone's just wanting more information, about the program.
00:46:00
Hunter Anne
um i'll send and we have a real I'll send them that, what you can do today and our general like process document that breaks down what working with us would look like of some of the questions we'll go through, how we can help you prep for those legal meetings down down the line, just kind of give the rundown of of what we can offer if they're wanting more information.
00:46:02
Spencer Guinn
Thank you.
00:46:04
brett
Thank you.
00:46:24
Hunter Anne
But some people very much are like, no, like I know I need to do this. And so that'll definitely send them what you can do today to get started document.
00:46:37
Hunter Anne
Well, I'll take their contact information and set the reminder to in about three or four weeks, give them some time to really think over their answer and reach back out and see how we can help further if they're ready to move forward, need some more time, just kind of what their general need is at that moment after they have received that kind of starting info.
00:46:59
brett
Awesome.
00:47:00
Alexis
Is there, we didn't ask, is there a fee to this service?
00:47:00
brett
awesome but
00:47:04
Hunter Anne
No, that's the best part. I don't know how we forgot that.
00:47:06
Spencer Guinn
there's
00:47:07
Hunter Anne
It's free.
00:47:08
Alexis
I knew the answer, but I wanted you to like shout it about how awesome um this resource
00:47:09
Hunter Anne
you and they need to keep a sign on my desk and just hold up.
00:47:15
Alexis
but
00:47:15
Hunter Anne
Nope, it's free.
00:47:16
Plant People
That sounds like you guys work with a lot of, ah yeah, yeah, free succession planning.
00:47:17
Alexis
Free hugs, but it's free succession planning.
00:47:19
Hunter Anne
yeah
00:47:21
Plant People
Sounds like you guys work with some awesome groups too. I guess I didn't realize until I started looking over some information for today that there were so many groups and, you know, kind of umbrellas that kind of fit under that's working in this area.
00:47:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:47:33
Plant People
And sounds like it's ah going to get expanded, Dr. Isaacs, maybe here in the future.
00:47:38
Steve Isaacs
Yes, I hope we're going to have a better extension presence in this. It's always been working in this area, but it is such a big area that it's difficult to go out there.
00:47:45
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:46
Steve Isaacs
And we simply haven't had the resources to do what Hunter Ann and Spencer and Kay Carter are doing, and that is sit down with people and do this.
00:47:49
brett
Mm-hmm.
00:47:53
Steve Isaacs
I also think we'd be remiss, and I think it's been evident in our discussion this today, that this is not just you one person who's going to get you through this. You need those legal, tax, accounting, financial planning resources.
00:48:04
brett
Thank
00:48:05
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:48:08
Steve Isaacs
And it's great that K-Card has this that can start it out without charging anybody anything and letting them know where they need to go. and maybe building in that transition team that they can help.
00:48:18
Steve Isaacs
And that's going to vary depending on the business, the complexity of the business. I heard somebody say the other day that the solution all this is is that if you have when you have one kid, stop.
00:48:30
Steve Isaacs
yeah that that So it makes things a lot easier.
00:48:33
Alexis
what if you farm and don't have any kids I feel like that's you know good too
00:48:37
Plant People
One and done is the UK way, Steve. One and done.
00:48:40
Steve Isaacs
you get
00:48:40
brett
ah Oh, wow.
00:48:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:48:41
Steve Isaacs
There you go.
00:48:44
Spencer Guinn
ah
00:48:46
brett
Well, Steve, this is, you know, this is topic is inherently deals with death.
00:48:47
Alexis
Ray's gonna be getting a phone call
00:48:54
brett
And I think in, you know, a lot of cultural frames in the U.S. and in the West and other places, too, we think of death as a morbid thing. But it turns out it's a part of life and it's literally a part of everyone's life.
00:49:06
brett
ah I grew up, my my dad was cop, police officer, and was very blunt about that reality. and He really, we, our estate plan was crystal clear.
00:49:20
brett
And so when he died, it was a major burden off of our shoulders. And there's a lot of positivity that came out of those seemingly morbid discussions. And so I'm wondering if you have any, as the eldest Barry, I'm wondering if you have any ah concluding words of kind of wisdom or the value from your experience working with people that you want to leave us with about this.
00:49:32
Hunter Anne
Mm-hmm.
00:49:35
Alexis
yeah
00:49:45
Steve Isaacs
Well, it it is incredibly ironic that the one thing that is an absolute certainty is the one thing that many people don't want to talk about. I mean, just outside the ag world, there's estimates that maybe two-thirds of Americans
Engaging with KCARD's CASP Program and Conclusion
00:50:00
Steve Isaacs
don't have you even have a will.
00:50:01
Steve Isaacs
So, but... Four thirds of Americans are going to die. so so yeah
00:50:07
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:50:09
Steve Isaacs
So, yeah, one third are prepared. So, yeah, I'm not trying to be flippant, but it is an inevitable. fact of life. It is part of life. And to be able to think and prepare of that, not thinking about it, not having those discussions does not either delay it or prevent it from happening. It is going to happen. So I think the earlier you can start planning or thinking about this, the better involve everybody. So have have these conversations and use the resources that KCARD has and some extension resources and other to to just go ahead and get that get that discussion started.
00:50:45
Alexis
Awesome.
00:50:45
brett
That's great.
00:50:46
Alexis
Well, we really appreciate you guys being here with us today and telling us all the things that we should be doing if we go missing or just, you know, want the next generation to have some, a good experience, right? Whether they're family or just someone purchasing and wanting, wanting to farm. Sometimes we forget that there's lots of people out there who, uh,
00:51:07
Alexis
There's whole host of students right now at the University of Kentucky who want to go farm.
00:51:10
Steve Isaacs
Mm-hmm.
00:51:12
Alexis
So those of you who are in leadership positions, trust me, there's some someone who wants to come after you. But anyways, we appreciate this. We're going to post all of those links ah in in our show notes that people can you know find you easily.
00:51:24
Alexis
as well as they can follow us on Instagram at HortCulturePodcast, and we'll post some of those. We'll tag K-Card as well on there so that you know people can... We like easy clicks, right?
00:51:35
Alexis
We like to be able to get around. If this was helpful for you all as listeners, please leave us a comment in there and let us know if you want to hear more about this type of thing or something along these lines.
00:51:36
Hunter Anne
you
00:51:46
Alexis
We'd we'd love to be able to do that. We always love having our K-Card pals on here. And I mean, Steve's pretty cool, I guess, in some situations.
00:51:52
Plant People
Thank you.
00:51:52
Alexis
So. Anyways, we appreciate you guys. Thanks for being here. And we hope you join us next time. Have a great one.