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Credit Cards, Cash, and the Cost of Doing Business
84 Plays9 days ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, the hosts kick things off with a lighthearted roundtable about small purchases that unexpectedly bring joy—from coffee tumblers and rechargeable batteries to plant humidifiers and even computer RAM. The casual conversation sets the stage for a deeper dive into a topic many growers, vendors, and consumers are noticing more often: credit card processing fees.
The discussion explores why more businesses—especially small and agricultural ones—are charging credit card fees, how inflation and rising input costs play a role, and what the data says about consumer perceptions. The hosts unpack the psychology behind transaction fees, transparency at checkout, and whether itemizing fees helps or hurts customer trust. Drawing on real-world experience from farmers markets and direct sales, the episode weighs the cost of swipe fees against increased sales volume and convenience for customers who rarely carry cash.
Blending humor, data, and practical insight, this episode offers valuable perspective for producers, vendors, and anyone navigating modern purchasing habits—while reminding listeners that even serious business topics can still be rooted in everyday life and good conversation.
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Transcript
Warm Welcome
00:00:18
Brett
Welcome. Welcome to all of our listeners. Welcome to my co-hosts, Ray, Jessica, and Alexis.
00:00:22
Plant People
Welcome good people. It's in your best radio voice.
00:00:26
Brett
How are you all doing?
00:00:27
Jessica
Welcome.
00:00:27
Plant People
Good. It's a good day. It's a good day to be good on.
00:00:30
Brett
Yeah?
00:00:30
Alexis
I feel very welcome to be here today.
00:00:32
Plant People
Very welcomed.
00:00:33
Brett
Well, I'm glad that you feel welcome to be here today. ah You're welcome for that. ah
00:00:38
Plant People
You're welcome.
00:00:39
Brett
i So i have a question I have a question I'd like to ask you all.
00:00:41
Jessica
yeah.
00:00:41
Plant People
Oh, we need a question. Yeah. Convo question.
00:00:43
Brett
Yeah, so what is...
Joyful Purchases
00:00:47
Brett
something nice, like it doesn't have be the nicest thing, but something nice that you recently bought for yourself. That's just made your day a little brighter life, a little better.
00:00:56
Brett
It can be something simple, like some food, or it can be something more like, Oh, you know, I wanted a bag.
00:01:01
Jessica
Thank you.
00:01:02
Brett
And so I got this bag or, okay, Jessica's got boom on.
00:01:04
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:01:05
Plant People
a
00:01:06
Brett
Ooh, I'm in the market. So tell me, Jessica, for those listening is holding up a, what would you call that? A tumbler, a tall tumbler. Give me the, give me the rundown.
00:01:13
Jessica
Sure.
00:01:14
Brett
Give me the specs.
00:01:14
Jessica
it says It's a non-fancy but does-the-job coffee, portable coffee tumbler that I can say is a good one because this morning I couldn't find it before I left and somebody had moved it and it was completely upside down the floor and ah no coffee was s leaking out of it.
00:01:32
Alexis
this
00:01:36
Jessica
But it's...
00:01:36
Brett
So it's kind of like ah a seafoam green, about eight inches tall, probably a two and a half, three inch diameter for those listening at home.
00:01:39
Jessica
Yes.
00:01:44
Brett
It's made of steel, I assume.
00:01:45
Jessica
it's Yes, it is. All I asked for for Christmas was I said I needed a new travel coffee.
00:01:47
Plant People
Very heavy.
00:01:52
Jessica
mug my five-year-old tried to relate this to his dad and he kept telling his dad that my mom just wants a coffee cup with a lid and his dad took that as like a paper coffee cup with the lid and was like we're not getting your mother that instead I got two other really nice coffee mugs that were really fancy with big handles um so after Christmas I got myself this and And it has brought me much joy.
00:01:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:02:17
Brett
There you go.
00:02:19
Jessica
And my son ah saw it. He took it out of the box. He put it behind himself. And then he came to me and said, look what I got you for Christmas. And um so it's a great present.
00:02:30
Plant People
Oh, thank you.
00:02:30
Brett
ah like that.
00:02:30
Plant People
And he said, thank you.
00:02:31
Brett
you He re-gifted your gift to you.
00:02:31
Jessica
him He ripped it.
00:02:33
Plant People
Yes.
00:02:33
Jessica
Yes, he did. Something simple.
00:02:35
Plant People
He's learned early.
00:02:35
Brett
That's good.
00:02:36
Alexis
You remembered you wanted it.
00:02:36
Brett
That's smooth.
00:02:37
Plant People
He's learned early.
00:02:37
Alexis
I think that's important.
00:02:38
Plant People
He's smart.
00:02:38
Brett
Yeah, he knew that you wanted it.
00:02:38
Jessica
Yes, he did.
00:02:38
Plant People
He's thinking. He's thinking. He said, how can I go wrong with this?
00:02:42
Alexis
Listener.
00:02:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:43
Jessica
so so something simple, but it's been good.
00:02:48
Plant People
How about you, Brett? You have something in mind? I'll take it.
00:02:52
Brett
Um, no, no this not necessarily.
00:02:52
Plant People
little something, little something, something.
00:02:54
Brett
Um, I bought, I bought a ah couple of small, uh, like misting humidifiers, uh, for around the plants, particularly houseplants.
00:02:55
Plant People
Yeah? Okay. Okay.
00:03:01
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:03:01
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:03:04
Plant People
Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:03:06
Brett
And they, they seem to be liking that and enjoying that. Uh, it's kind of a fun vibe to has actually be able to see the mist coming up. Um, so those have been kind of fun.
00:03:16
Brett
um And i've been I've been carrying chapstick more often. I didn't buy it for myself, but I mean, I guess I did. Yeah, I mean, I did, but yeah, I'm an adult.
00:03:23
Alexis
At some point.
00:03:24
Brett
I'm an adult. I bought it at some point.
00:03:26
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:03:26
Brett
But ah that's been a real plus up. I'm not a big chapstick guy, but I've been feeling dry lately.
00:03:30
Plant People
I mean, chapstick is like mugs.
00:03:31
Brett
I guess i guess that's my see that's my theme is just being dry and trying to hydrate.
00:03:32
Plant People
They get fancy.
00:03:35
Jessica
Yeah.
00:03:36
Plant People
Being desiccated.
00:03:36
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:03:38
Plant People
Brett brett is desiccated. do You have a new thing.
00:03:39
Jessica
Do you go for a a certain type or flavor? My kids in their Christmas stockings this year got Sour Patch Kids chapstick, and they think that's the coolest thing ever.
00:03:49
Alexis
like they're going to eat that.
00:03:49
Brett
Wow.
00:03:50
Jessica
it has been confiscated, though, and placed up high, so they can only request it now to put it on and not just eat the chapstick.
00:03:54
Plant People
Okay. They can only eat so much at a time.
00:04:02
Jessica
But did you you branch out?
00:04:02
Brett
um I mean, I just were i just wear Burt's Bees, ah you know, and put on my toms and listen to Blink-182 to just feel young.
00:04:06
Jessica
Oh.
00:04:10
Brett
there you go.
00:04:10
Jessica
I mean, that's what I do every day, so.
00:04:13
Brett
Yeah.
00:04:14
Plant People
Dance off in the kitchen.
00:04:14
Brett
oh
00:04:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:16
Brett
yeah
00:04:17
Plant People
Gotta rock on.
00:04:17
Brett
What about y'all?
00:04:18
Plant People
It's.
00:04:19
Brett
Anybody else got anything?
00:04:22
Plant People
Compute.
00:04:22
Alexis
i got I got rechargeable batteries.
00:04:23
Plant People
Usually. Yeah. Go ahead.
00:04:24
Alexis
Does that count?
00:04:25
Plant People
Hmm. Actually, that's kind of nice, Alexis.
00:04:27
Brett
I mean, you tell me how it's affecting your life.
00:04:30
Alexis
I'm, I'm pretty, I'm actually pretty stoked about it because I hate not having but like batteries in the house.
00:04:30
Plant People
That's kind of nice.
00:04:37
Alexis
And so now I have all these rechargeable batteries and the the charger does double A's and triple A's.
00:04:40
Jessica
Very nice.
00:04:44
Alexis
So like, I'm i' am always going to have the ability to have a fresh battery in the house.
00:04:45
Brett
Hmm.
00:04:46
Plant People
Very nice. And
00:04:51
Alexis
And that's clutch for me.
00:04:53
Plant People
and as expensive as batteries are, i mean, awesome.
00:04:53
Brett
such a practical Such a practical plus up.
00:04:56
Plant People
Awesome. That is an awesome glow up. Yes. I mean, that's something to get excited about.
00:05:02
Alexis
I'm a practical, i like practical use things, so.
00:05:05
Brett
Yeah.
00:05:06
Jessica
Right.
00:05:06
Brett
Ray, you got anything?
00:05:09
Plant People
I was trying to think. I did get some DDR5 RAM. I usually build a computer every winter just because it's something I do. And I saw the RAM apocalypse coming. and Those of you that follow the tech forums, all of the world's fast access memory is being taken up. Well, I purchased this, didn't need it, but I was like, if I'm going to build a new build, I'd need some DDR5 RAM.
00:05:32
Plant People
Purchased it for $70 and now that gets $500.
00:05:33
Jessica
I have no idea.
00:05:35
Brett
Ray, you you have this whole, like, it when I hear you talk, it's like a worlds collide because literally no one else in my orbit has any idea what you're talking about.
00:05:42
Plant People
I make up stuff.
00:05:47
Plant People
Josh not did.
00:05:47
Brett
And i I have also been plugged in.
00:05:48
Plant People
Josh, Josh was a fan of that.
00:05:49
Brett
Yeah, that's true. That's true. We kicked him out to Vermont, unfortunately.
00:05:51
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah, you exported him.
00:05:52
Brett
But but yeah, the forums all over the place were blowing up ah anti-AI sentiment, anti-NVIDIA sentiment, anti-everything sentiment because a lot of these things for normal people are getting diverted to other applications for big customers who can pay more money and all that kind of stuff.
00:05:53
Alexis
You
00:05:53
Plant People
So I'm worried. I'm nervous now.
00:06:01
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:10
Plant People
Yes.
00:06:12
Brett
And so, so wow, that is like...
00:06:15
Plant People
I jumped on board, man. I told every friend I had, I said, buy your graphics processing unit now, which has on board fast access memory. And your DDR5 RAM if you're using a new motherboard.
00:06:26
Plant People
So I convinced everybody.
00:06:27
Brett
I'm so tickled by this.
00:06:28
Plant People
so that But normally I would not have, that would have been an indulgence, but I purchased and I justified that to Jennifer. I said, I spent this much, but if I'd have waited two weeks, it would have been this much.
00:06:38
Plant People
And I don't think she was proud of me, but she tolerated me.
00:06:39
Brett
So basically, I got it for free.
00:06:42
Plant People
So, you know, yeah.
00:06:42
Alexis
Girl math.
00:06:43
Jessica
Girl math. yeah
00:06:43
Plant People
Yeah, girl math. I did girl math. on And I think she was confused by that because I totally did girl math. So yes, exactly.
00:06:49
Brett
I like that.
00:06:49
Alexis
She was like, oh no, he caught on to my math.
00:06:50
Plant People
That was my indulgence. Yes. I was like, I got a good deal. And, you know, I did. So, yeah.
00:06:57
Jessica
So coffee mugs to computer things that I don't understand.
00:06:57
Brett
Just a vibes-based economy out there.
00:06:58
Plant People
It is. It is vibe-based.
00:07:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:07:04
Alexis
Yeah, I'm out.
00:07:05
Plant People
I mean, the mugs, yes, exciting.
00:07:06
Alexis
and I'm happy for you.
00:07:07
Plant People
The humidifier, exciting. The batteries, very exciting to me. i mean I mean, all these things are, you guys are kind of cool.
00:07:14
Jessica
We're really cool.
00:07:14
Plant People
like that. Yeah.
00:07:15
Brett
Well, here's my question for you.
00:07:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:07:16
Alexis
I'm happy if you're happy.
00:07:17
Jessica
Yeah.
00:07:18
Brett
Here's my question for you.
Rise in Credit Card Fees
00:07:19
Brett
Do you recall when you purchased that item, were you charged a fee? What did you pay for it with a credit card or did you buy it with cash? And if you did, were you charged a fee to use your credit card?
00:07:32
Plant People
I just assumed since it said free shipping that it would have the fee built in hidden.
00:07:32
Jessica
And around...
00:07:36
Plant People
I mean, I'm just saying.
00:07:36
Jessica
girl Girl math again. i used my Amazon points.
00:07:39
Plant People
Oh.
00:07:41
Jessica
So it was free, right?
00:07:41
Brett
Okay.
00:07:41
Plant People
Oh, power move.
00:07:41
Alexis
Yeah.
00:07:44
Plant People
Power move. Okay.
00:07:45
Alexis
yeah
00:07:46
Plant People
Free.
00:07:46
Brett
So you order ordered on Amazon.
00:07:47
Plant People
Totally free.
00:07:49
Jessica
I did.
00:07:50
Brett
Yeah, yeah. So so they they are are currently not charging a fee. So even better deal, basically, what I'm trying to tell you.
00:07:57
Alexis
So free.
00:07:59
Plant People
A fee that you can see.
00:07:59
Jessica
Free free. Yeah.
00:08:00
Plant People
Yeah. Sure.
00:08:02
Brett
but So when i when I venture out into the state ah to talk to people about a variety of things, one of the presentations we used to do through the Marketing for All curriculum is accepting more than just cash.
00:08:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:08:14
Jessica
Thank you.
00:08:14
Brett
And I make my pitch. Some people are into it. Some people aren't. And frequently people just get really mad about the fees associated with accepting credit cards. They just get real mad about it.
00:08:26
Brett
And as if I'm the one imposing the fees often, and I'm just like, I'm i'm not. But my pitch to them is, we'll get into that later, but back before Christmas, we were riding around and Annie and I were talking and she said like, man, it just seems like a lot more businesses are charging credit card fees now.
00:08:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:08:49
Brett
Like at point of purchase, you get up there and it's boom, your $5 thing is now $5 plus 5% 3% or whatever. five percent or three percent or whatever
00:08:57
Plant People
Hmm.
00:08:58
Jessica
I don't.
00:08:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:09:00
Brett
is that does that Does that resonate with your all's experience? Is that something that you have noticed or seen?
00:09:04
Alexis
yeah
00:09:05
Plant People
I've just seen fees overall, swap fees, and but but fees that are, I don't know if it's a rule change or what, but I'm starting at, maybe I've just started noticing those or maybe there's been a rule change.
00:09:05
Alexis
Yeah.
00:09:15
Plant People
I don't know, but ah but I do notice now I try to pay more attention when there's these fees on there.
00:09:17
Jessica
and
00:09:20
Jessica
I know if it's like with the cost increase of everything, fees that businesses once, you know, used to just eat themselves, you know, like they would just, and now they can now they can't justify.
00:09:26
Plant People
oh Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:29
Brett
Yeah. well we'll We'll get into some hypotheses here. Yeah.
00:09:33
Jessica
right.
00:09:33
Plant People
Okay. ah I'm excited about this.
00:09:33
Brett
so So here's another question. We'll just get a little bit of data on the table before I share some other stuff from other places. did that make you more Does that make you more likely to buy in cash instead?
00:09:50
Plant People
No, absolutely not.
00:09:50
Alexis
No.
00:09:51
Brett
Do you carry cash?
00:09:52
Jessica
a
00:09:53
Alexis
Right, yeah, I don't usually have enough cash for what I'm purchasing.
00:09:54
Plant People
I don't pay cash, yeah. I would have to make a lifestyle change.
00:09:57
Jessica
I live with somebody who carries cash. So
00:10:01
Plant People
Because i don't think pockets, I don't think are designed for heavy weight of copious amounts of coins anymore.
00:10:01
Jessica
i
00:10:01
Brett
So does Annie. All
00:10:07
Plant People
I mean, it's a that's a big that's a big ask to go back to cash.
00:10:10
Brett
all right. One more question. One more question. did Does seeing that that business is charging a fee for you to use a credit card, does it affect your opinion of that business?
00:10:22
Alexis
No.
00:10:23
Plant People
and Somewhat. it It makes me aware. It raises my awareness level that there might be other fees that I need to watch out for. but it Yeah.
00:10:31
Jessica
I guess it depends on how big the fee is.
00:10:34
Brett
Mm.
00:10:34
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:10:35
Brett
and Okay.
00:10:36
Plant People
Or if I've not ran into the fee at all before and they're the first, then I will remember that they were the first that I recognized to charge me a fee.
00:10:36
Brett
Well, I,
00:10:43
Plant People
I mean, but as far as dissuading me, i would i mean, if it was a good deal, it's a good deal.
00:10:49
Brett
Yeah, I have, well, I have some, I have some data here to to share from this this thing that I wrote.
00:10:50
Plant People
Whatever was supposed to say.
00:10:54
Brett
And if you if you want to read the article, it's pretty short. It's over and on ccd.uky.edu. We have news items on our main page with lots of different stuff, updates, including our presentations from recent conferences.
00:11:05
Brett
And we also have this little short article and ah Alexis wrote a really nice article about prepping your high tunnel and and stuff for, for snow and for cold temperatures and stuff like that.
00:11:14
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:11:16
Brett
So if you ever are looking for some interesting news, you can either follow us on social or or go and pick it up over there. But anyway, so, In 2021, as of 2021, the estimate was that small business among small businesses, about 5% of them were charging a credit card fee of some sort to their customer at checkout.
00:11:37
Brett
As of 2025, anyone care to guess the percentage number? it was five percent
00:11:44
Plant People
25%. Take that, Alexis. Yeah. 26%. twenty five percent
00:11:50
Brett
34% of businesses are now are now charging credit card fees.
00:11:52
Plant People
take that alexis
00:11:53
Brett
So what that tells me is, you know, I'm i'm trying to do,
00:11:55
Alexis
We're both over, so
00:11:58
Plant People
twenty six
00:11:58
Alexis
neither of us would go
00:12:01
Brett
it it ah it makes me think, okay, yeah, there is something to this, like noticing that it has gotten to be more and that it is a case now where people are charging that.
00:12:08
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:12:09
Brett
And The thing is, like i think part of it is that our our out in the agricultural community, people are they're just different kinds of businesses, different kinds of clientele. The vibe is different. i would I would suspect that more agricultural producers were probably charging fees before as compared to other kinds of businesses. But like in the old days, the reality was that you were getting charged a credit card fee.
00:12:36
Brett
It was just built into the cost of goods and services. And if you paid cash, you were paying part of a credit card fee for somebody else.
00:12:39
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:43
Brett
I mean, in reality, that's kind of how how you might look at it if you were in favor of it or whatever.
00:12:44
Alexis
Right.
00:12:45
Plant People
Oh, hmm.
00:12:49
Brett
um So I'm curious, Jessica, you started ah thinking a little bit about why. why do you Why do you all think it might be?
00:13:01
Brett
There isn't a right answer. This is all you know kind of thinking.
00:13:03
Plant People
You mean the increase?
00:13:04
Alexis
that more people That more people are charging?
00:13:04
Jessica
I guess that was just my, yeah, was
00:13:07
Brett
why more businesses are charging this.
00:13:09
Jessica
That would just be my first initial thought was like, well, the price of ah you guys farmer's market standpoint, like, right. If we start charging a credit card fee, like price of seeds have gone up, right.
00:13:20
Jessica
Price of you know, other input material, all of that has gone up price of even like maybe vendor fees have gone up and then something to offset, you know, to offset that.
00:13:32
Plant People
Yeah. I'm kind of curious what what would drive that. Would it be that swap fees themselves have increased or is it the overall cost of doing business?
00:13:37
Jessica
Right. Right.
00:13:39
Plant People
Because I remember, and you brought up a great point there, kind of a subtle point, Brett. ah Years ago, the first time I ever noticed this being a thing was at a gas station. When I was traveling, I started noticing that certain gas stations, this is the price of cash and this is the price of a gallon of gas if you use a credit card. And the two were different. And I got to thinking about that and I thought,
00:13:59
Plant People
maybe that's a a good equitable way of doing swap fees because that, you know, doesn't charge the ones paying cash, you know, that fee. It doesn't levy the fee on everyone, in other words.
00:14:11
Plant People
ah But yeah, I'm most curious what drives that.
00:14:11
Brett
Yeah.
00:14:14
Plant People
And i mean, um you know, we'd love to hear the kind of the psychology or the information, the planning behind, like, is it better to build the fee in or just to kind of show it and be transparent about it I'd love to kind of know more about that.
00:14:26
Brett
yeah
00:14:29
Brett
Well, I think one of the things that's tricky is you're never coming from like a vacuum. You're never coming from people who've never purchased anything before. And now here's this fee.
00:14:40
Brett
And I was thinking about and it.
00:14:40
Jessica
I don't
00:14:41
Brett
and It feels, you know, if you've traveled internationally, um like some places like like in Europe, for instance, there are really pretty strict laws about the way that your receipt needs to be itemized and show how the tax is included.
00:14:53
Brett
And that like even your advertised price has to include tax, the VAT, on the front end so that like the customer doesn't get there and say, wait a second, it's this plus 6% or 8% or whatever.
00:14:58
Plant People
Interesting.
00:15:01
Alexis
There's no surprise.
00:15:04
Brett
And it feels in a way, the idea of like having the fee itemized out feels very not, you know American typical experience, you know, purchase experience.
00:15:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:13
Jessica
Thank you.
00:15:16
Brett
And in that regard, I think some of the people who are consumer advocates would say, it's actually great to have the fee broken out so you can see the entire cost of everything that you're paying for.
00:15:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:15:24
Brett
um We'll come back to that in a second. But the um I think one of the big things people point to is, in fact, the effect of inflation, the and the effect of some political ah interventions on driving prices up or making you know availability of things more expensive.
00:15:41
Brett
And you you even see Some businesses will itemize out like a tariff fee or a tariff charge to just to show. And I think that to me cuts through to businesses don't want to necessarily raise the price of an item and give the impression that it's their fault that it's happening.
00:15:48
Alexis
who
00:15:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:16:00
Brett
You know, like if you were if you were paying $3 for tomatoes and now tomatoes are $3.25, I don't want you to think that I'm getting greedy and I'm taking all that money.
00:16:01
Alexis
Yeah. Right.
00:16:08
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:16:08
Plant People
Gotcha.
00:16:09
Alexis
Right.
00:16:09
Brett
ah There's like a sticker shock psychology there, I think, that that plays into it. ah but But largely, it's that things are going up, businesses want to cut costs. And it's a theoretically, i think in theory, it's a way to cut costs and try to incentivize different behavior.
00:16:26
Brett
Whether it actually works out that way is an entirely different question.
00:16:29
Plant People
almost feel like it's a gotcha when I see that on a bill and I wasn't, because more don't than than do at this point when I see it, I'm like, oh, oh, a fee I didn't anticipate because, you know, that wasn't advertised on the sticker.
00:16:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:39
Brett
Yeah.
00:16:41
Plant People
I'm used to calculating sort of the 6%, you know, local sales tax in my head or whatever. But yeah, that's a gotcha thing. So it could work for and against you, I guess, couldn't it?
00:16:50
Brett
Yeah. Well, you say you're used to it. And I think that is one of the most important pieces in the puzzle because you all all said, no don't carry cash.
00:16:55
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:17:00
Brett
I you know live with some old guy who carries it. But other than that, you know we don't really have it.
00:17:03
Jessica
Yeah.
00:17:03
Alexis
so she's fifty
00:17:06
Brett
So some estimates say that 81% of consumers prefer using a card.
00:17:14
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:17:14
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:15
Plant People
I'm surprised it's that low, really.
00:17:15
Brett
And generally speaking, ah the eight, the old, the younger, the the group gets the more likely they are to pay with a card instead of cash or some sort of electronic payment instead of cash, which means if you implement a fee,
00:17:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:27
Plant People
Hmm.
00:17:34
Brett
that's now new, you are going to hit four out of every five customers with a fee that they didn't experience before.
Impact on Consumer Behavior
00:17:40
Brett
Like, I think if you had made this intervention 15 years ago, 20 years ago, it's a different conversation altogether, maybe, but we have moved so far in this direction that um the other the other piece, and we we can talk about this in a second, but people do tend tend to spend more money when they use a card than if they have cash, because it's ah theoretically a much bigger pool of assets they can access.
00:17:40
Plant People
Hmm.
00:17:40
Alexis
okay
00:17:57
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:17:57
Jessica
Yes.
00:17:58
Alexis
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:18:02
Brett
But you You mentioned, Ray, um that eighty s that ah you you sometimes feel like a gotcha. And so here's another statistic from some studies about this, that 87% of Americans say that they feel nickel and dimed by transaction fees.
00:18:19
Plant People
That's kind of where I was at a little bit.
00:18:22
Alexis
yeah
00:18:22
Plant People
that i It's a little fee that I just wasn't on my radar until it was right in front of me.
00:18:28
Brett
Yeah, a number of years ago, the the fees were actually not legal. And then there was a lapse back in the 80s and some stuff. And there was some class action stuff that happened in 20 teens. So it's it's been a while, but there was a point and 57% of people still think that they should be illegal.
00:18:44
Jessica
Thank you.
00:18:44
Brett
57%
00:18:47
Plant People
50% of the people think that the phase, what goes in?
00:18:47
Alexis
yeah
00:18:49
Brett
of people who were polled thought they think that these types of transaction fees should be illegal.
00:18:53
Plant People
I guess with the rise of all the different systems, and I know you guys have done some work on this, Brett, like the different swipe systems and softwares and hardware systems, that I expect that that has to be paid for somehow, you know, to maintain those systems.
00:19:06
Brett
Yeah.
00:19:07
Plant People
So I realized from a practical standpoint in the back of my brain that that money has to come from somewhere. either they charge a bunch up front. or they sell the equipment at a subsidized cost and they get it on the back end for swap fees or or whatever their business model is.
00:19:20
Plant People
It's got to be funded. So I realize that there's all these systems, but at the same time, i mean, it's ah kind of a weird thing in my head, the fee.
00:19:22
Brett
Yeah.
00:19:22
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:27
Plant People
Okay.
00:19:28
Brett
Oh, I think a lot of the a lot of the but the reality is that that like with everything, small scale, medium scale, and large scale are kind of completely different ah sets of considerations.
00:19:41
Brett
So if you're only processing 500 swipes in the course of a year, you may be more likely to see that your fees are all kind of flat, they're all the same, they're all predictable.
00:19:42
Alexis
and
00:19:52
Brett
When you get up to larger scales of processing, the rates can be kind of different and they can even be different by the type of card, ah the type ah even even within like a Visa, MasterCard, whatever, within that, if you have like a super rewards card,
00:20:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:20:00
Plant People
Hmm.
00:20:06
Brett
In some cases, the banks actually may charge more of a fee for that to be used than others.
00:20:11
Jessica
you
00:20:12
Brett
And so it's like this war on you get your rewards for your spending, but the merchant pays more. And so um actually, ah target even Target and Walmart are jumping in and thinking about charging fees for some things more than others.
00:20:30
Brett
So this isn't just like a you know small business niche consideration.
00:20:34
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:20:35
Brett
As of right now, I don't think they are, but they're starting to think about, OK, how is this hitting us?
00:20:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:20:40
Brett
How are we you know playing with this? I think in general, most of the folks that I see and interact with it ah in Kentucky, at least, who are doing a lot of direct sales, they tend to be at the smaller end of the spectrum. They may be using something like Square or some other kind of an interface.
00:20:57
Brett
And I pulled it just real quick. So with, with square, if you have the free one right now, they charge you 15, 15 cent charge plus 2.6% for their free account.
00:21:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:12
Brett
And if you have paid accounts, the amount goes down. Um, in some cases, I think the fees could be higher than that. And again, if you get to a certain volume of swipes, uh, there's the the game kind of changes and you have different conversations, but, uh,
00:21:26
Brett
You know, one of my arguments for, okay, that does suck. It does suck to pay for something that that you're not getting any that's just going to a middleman, whatever. But coming back around to that idea of why we might want to accept cards.
00:21:42
Brett
One is if people don't carry cash at all, we're not getting their business if we don't accept the card.
00:21:48
Plant People
yeah
00:21:48
Alexis
Right.
00:21:49
Jessica
Right.
00:21:50
Brett
But the other is, if I am trying to control my, so I refer to this as reverse Dave Ramsey-ing our customers. um So Dave Ramsey says, pay for everything in cash. Don't have a credit card because if you have a credit card, you're going to spend more, which is true, but we want that.
00:22:05
Brett
We want our splurge purchases.
00:22:06
Alexis
this she says
00:22:08
Brett
So if i if I go to the to the but local farm market or something like that, and I take $40 in cash in my pocket, and start getting stuff, and I realize I've picked up $88 worth of stuff,
00:22:20
Brett
if I got no card and you take no card, I'm putting back $48 of that at the very least.
00:22:24
Alexis
Right.
00:22:25
Brett
and Maybe more.
00:22:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:25
Brett
Now I'm second guessing it. Now I'm not impulse spending. And so the one thing that I always thought talked about a little bit is you have to weigh the way that it allows you to access more purchases, moving more volume against the fee.
00:22:40
Brett
And so if it's 5%, a 5% fee, which is higher than what most people are going to be paying right now, at least. and you sell 50% more or a hundred percent more, you gotta kind of do that math.
00:22:49
Plant People
yeah
00:22:52
Brett
And obviously there's costs associated with those additional products. It's not just pure profit, but in general, in a business, you wanna be moving product and moving product is ah having people access a limitless amount of money or a you know higher amount of money than what you're gonna be charging to be able to buy stuff from you is ah is a foot up.
00:23:01
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:23:15
Jessica
I can definitely, for experience with farmer's market, seeing the difference between when we were not taking credit cards, just because like it was just starting to roll out more, you know, making it easier, an easier way to have credit cards and stuff. ah But at the end of the year, looking back when you can get on like Square or whatever you use and you can on their site, break it down to exactly how much fees you paid over the year, you know,
00:23:46
Jessica
that fee, uh, it's, it's, it's not that like, it might be a big chunk, but it's worth that chunk, that investment for that fee, because the against your increases sales.
00:23:54
Brett
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:55
Plant People
Cause you were judging that against the sales or increase in sales probably.
00:23:59
Jessica
Cause what we have seen is if they have a credit card, like you said, it tends to be like, Oh, well I'll take, get some beef.
00:24:00
Plant People
o
00:24:06
Jessica
Oh, well let me add some honey to that. Let me add this. Let me add that, you know, versus, ah
00:24:10
Alexis
higher price items
00:24:13
Jessica
I gave my kids $5 in cash to go, you know, and like, what is, you know, what are they going what are they going to get? What are they going to pick out? And that limits, you know, what they can get at the farmer's market, which may be three or four onions or could be freeze dried Jolly Ranchers.
00:24:31
Jessica
So
00:24:33
Brett
Yeah. And I think sometimes you'll see that the the bigger the purchase especially with some of like the square amounts that I said, where it's 15 cents per swipe.
00:24:43
Brett
Well, 15 cents on a $5 purchase is very different from 15 cents on a $50 purchase or a $500 purchase.
00:24:48
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:49
Jessica
Mm-hmm. huh
00:24:50
Brett
And so you will see people sometimes implement a, you know, $5 limit or $10 limit or whatever for credit card purchases.
00:24:56
Plant People
Yes. Mm-hmm.
00:24:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:24:58
Brett
And I, you know i think there's positives and minuses to that. um But, you know, one of the things that I asked you all earlier, did did you all have, like, if you see that you're charged a fee, do you have any sort of,
00:25:10
Brett
Does that make you feel some type of way about the vendor? and you all And you all said sort of no, no, sort of, I think was our are our our are panel here.
00:25:17
Plant People
Yeah, I was a sort of freshman.
00:25:21
Brett
Well, you all are significantly less petty than the participants in this study, which found that 70% of retail shoppers and 72% of restaurant customers say that a fee hurt their view of that business.
00:25:21
Plant People
I don't like surprises.
00:25:36
Jessica
I think if it is visible, like, you know, like you're going, that fee is clearly visible.
00:25:40
Plant People
Yes.
00:25:43
Jessica
It's not a surprise.
00:25:43
Plant People
Fed up front.
00:25:44
Jessica
Like if, yeah, that's the difference.
00:25:44
Plant People
Yep.
00:25:46
Jessica
At least for me, it is like that. I know like if I'm getting ready.
00:25:49
Brett
how How would you go about making it visible and clear?
00:25:53
Jessica
I think as a, like at a farmer's market booth, having the sign put up, like right in front of where you have your cash box, where you keep your, your, square reader, you know, all of that, have it very clear out in the front, a convenience fee, you know, um or like if you're at a restaurant, if them having it on a menu, you know, having it there where you can clearly see it.
00:26:04
Plant People
Like a convenience fee or swap fee or something, whatever you want to call it Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:15
Jessica
I think it's when you go to purchase something and then after they've already swiped or, you know, or they're taking your card, then say, Hey, by the way, there's also, you know, this fee on it.
00:26:28
Jessica
That's where it gets icky. Yeah.
00:26:30
Plant People
That's like when you buy a car and there's all these fees that's not, it's not the, what they, well, here's what you're going to pay per month.
00:26:30
Alexis
It's like when, mm-hmm.
00:26:36
Jessica
right The
00:26:36
Plant People
Then you get in to do the loan and they're like, no, no, no, no. Here's the other $150 a month miscellaneous fees.
00:26:42
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:26:42
Plant People
That always kills me. And you know, that, but it's the knowing. If I know it up front and I feel like, you know, then it's different.
00:26:49
Alexis
I can mentally prepare myself.
00:26:50
Plant People
And yes, I can mentally prepare myself, but yeah, it's becoming more common.
00:26:54
Jessica
processset and the processing fees that you get for like tickets or, you know, like...
00:26:54
Plant People
That helps.
00:26:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:26:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:59
Jessica
that are really expensive.
00:26:59
Plant People
Oh, the yeah, just, well, and you said in some fees like that or or resort fees or just whatever when it seems like there's a lot of different kinds of fees and maybe that's what we're picking up on you all is it's just another fee and it adds to the weight.
00:27:00
Alexis
Yeah.
00:27:02
Jessica
Yeah. or digit For digital, you know, stuff.
00:27:15
Plant People
Maybe that's what's showing up in that survey you referenced, Brett. That we're, there's fees for everything. Now, the fees we're talking about today are smaller, much more, probably in most cases, much more reasonable, much more logical.
00:27:26
Plant People
But, you know, people encounter fees for all sorts of things, whether it's an Airbnb or just going down and buying some gas or whatever. So maybe it's that unknown, it's an unknown factor for me that does it.
00:27:38
Brett
Well, I'll point out first, if I were doing a focus group for a marketing firm, I would immediately throw you three out as way too rational to not to represent the American consumer.
00:27:48
Plant People
you want You want more knee-jerk radical.
00:27:48
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:27:49
Alexis
Well, you also you're also talking to people who use these businesses.
00:27:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:52
Alexis
So like I feel like I'm...
00:27:53
Plant People
if We've already made the considerations.
00:27:55
Alexis
My opinion is like going to be different because i I pay these fees personally, you know, every swipe.
00:27:55
Plant People
do You guys have. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:28:02
Alexis
So it's it's a different.
00:28:03
Plant People
But do you charge those fee forward, though?
00:28:07
Alexis
No, not at the moment.
00:28:08
Plant People
Oh.
00:28:09
Jessica
Same.
00:28:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:28:10
Brett
but So I think that's the the tension is that, is that there's this, like, we, we want to do this thing and be transparent, but actually we see that a lot of people react to that transparency in a negative light because, you know, I said 70 something percent have a negative view.
00:28:10
Plant People
so you Okay. Okay.
00:28:27
Brett
And then on top of that, 86% said they had a negative view if, if they had not experienced fees before. So if it was like a new fee, it would, they were even more mad about it.
00:28:35
Plant People
Yes. Yes.
00:28:36
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:36
Plant People
I could totally see that.
00:28:36
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:38
Plant People
Yes.
00:28:39
Brett
And so that's
00:28:39
Plant People
As you get used to things, it's different. It's different. Yeah.
00:28:43
Brett
So so the um the through line, I think, ah is that you got to make a decision based on your business, how much money you're making, oh how you want to handle that interaction.
00:28:58
Brett
ah For me, especially, i would almost certainly be selling in an urban setting where it's like a non-negotiable thing and you have people with maybe higher incomes who are able to just put, don't think of anything about putting a couple hundred bucks on the credit card.
00:29:09
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:29:13
Brett
that it's gonna outweigh the fees in a small, in a most small bidding business settings. But so ah another way of thinking about this, another way that people have approached it is is by offering instead of a fee for credit cards to offer a discount for using cash.
Solutions and Strategies
00:29:30
Brett
So this is the, cause, cause I think even if you have a signup, even if you have a, you know, clear information, even if you have whatever people are not gonna, most customers aren't gonna read that.
00:29:30
Plant People
Yeah.
00:29:40
Brett
It's the same people.
00:29:40
Alexis
I think.
00:29:41
Brett
You can have your signage everywhere. Where's the bathroom? Where's the signage everywhere? You know, how do I get to the hay rides? It's just, that's just part of doing business with people who are coming to give you money. is that they're not going to read and then they're goingnna be mad.
00:29:53
Brett
And at the point of sale, there's going to be a little bit of friction in that interaction caused by me asking you, are you paying credit card or cash?
00:29:58
Jessica
you
00:30:03
Brett
And I had this recently where someone asked me, are you paying credit card or cash? And I said, well, does it matter? And they said, well, offer. And of course, there was a sign.
00:30:14
Brett
I didn't read it because I'm a dumb consumer like the ones I'm telling you about that.
00:30:17
Plant People
Thank you.
00:30:17
Brett
They do assess a fee on the credit card. Now, I like Sean ah come from the 19th century where we carried around cash. ah And so we so I had cash and I just paid cash instead.
00:30:29
Brett
And that was fine. um But it was like 50 something dollars. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like a $5 purchase and most people were probably not go to carrying around 50 something and in cash flex.
00:30:41
Brett
Yeah,
00:30:42
Alexis
i would say I was like, baller.
00:30:42
Jessica
yeah
00:30:43
Alexis
Baller.
00:30:44
Brett
that's right. Do you accept $1,000 bills, sir? ah
00:30:48
Plant People
Got 10 of those right here.
00:30:48
Alexis
Baller.
00:30:50
Brett
But I think that the cash discount it's, you're, you're still to have that friction where you ask somebody, are they paying for it in cash? Are they paying for it in credit? But you get to say, you can actually pay me less money if you give me cash.
00:31:00
Plant People
It's a discount instead of a fee.
00:31:01
Brett
Rather than, yeah.
00:31:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:31:03
Brett
And I think I was trying to think about like where that would be a pain in the butt. I think it would be a huge pain in the butt if you were, if you had a huge amount of physical inventory that you were going to have to reprice in order to change the price and rather, rather than just changing it in your system of like, okay, we're going to start assessing this fee on top.
00:31:16
Alexis
yeah
00:31:21
Brett
I have to go around, like if you had a small grocery store or something like that. If everything's digital, it's still a little bit of a pain, um but I think the the way that you would do it is you would kind of follow the trend of the old school system of including the fee in a normal price increase of the base level product.
00:31:24
Alexis
yeah
00:31:26
Jessica
you
00:31:40
Brett
and then chart then give the the thing back. And so um generally speaking, you might expect this, maybe maybe wouldn't, people tended to prefer ah cash discount and they tend to have a better experience with that than they do with being assessed a fee.
00:31:55
Alexis
Hmm.
00:31:55
Brett
And in fact, I asked you all if they if they ding you, does it make you do anything different?
00:31:55
Alexis
Hmm.
00:31:59
Brett
and you all said no, um which is, i think, very fair. But ah actually, cash discounts have been shown to increase the odds by 19% that people will will go ahead and pay in cash.
00:32:10
Brett
And so it does it does constitute a little bit of a nudge, not a huge nudge, but one that can kind of help reorient the way that you're ah you're being perceived and being explained.
00:32:23
Brett
i think I think there's other issues around transparency of like stuff's gotten more expensive and that's why we're raising our prices.
00:32:26
Jessica
Thank you.
00:32:29
Brett
And I think in general, a lot of people in in Kentucky that I interact with are are kind of far off on their prices anyway. They're probably behind on raising their prices, much less to do so to reflect the crazy last you know five five to six years of costs, cost increases as well as inflation.
00:32:35
Plant People
Yeah, too cheap.
00:32:45
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:32:48
Brett
So Yeah. So i i kind of proposed that as something that in the way, I guess the way that I would do it too is if I was thinking about the cash discount I would probably price like let's say I have ah you know a $10 item and I want to assess a 30 cent fee.
00:33:07
Brett
The price for that item is going to be $10 and 30 cents. And if you pay in cash, it's $10. Like a way a way to make the cash price break more easily with the cat with with you know denominations and that sort of thing.
00:33:20
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:20
Brett
Especially now that we don't have pennies anymore. Uh, that's another thing that's been weird. It's like, it's like 87 cents and I get back a nickel or something.
00:33:26
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:28
Brett
It's ah and a nickel and a dime. Um, yeah. So I'm curious, does any of that stuff surprise you?
00:33:37
Plant People
it's I'm surprised by the fact that there was, what you what did you say, 19%? Increase in likelihood of using cash. I'm surprised that many people have cash in their pocket because I would be one of those that absolutely doesn't have cash.
00:33:51
Plant People
I've even adapted my wallet that has no room for cash at all. It's just all cards.
00:33:55
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:33:56
Plant People
So that's that's where I'm at. Now that bouts me sometimes because I run into vendors at wherever, whatever I'm doing every now and again that they just don't take credit cards or the credit card machines down, whatever.
00:34:06
Plant People
And then I'm that awkward one that has to pull out of line at McDonald's because either A, their ice cream machine's broken, or B, their credit card machine's broken, and and I don't have cash.
00:34:07
Alexis
who
00:34:16
Plant People
i have to pull out of line at that point.
00:34:18
Alexis
Yeah.
00:34:19
Plant People
So, I mean, I should carry cash maybe, but when you mentioned the penny going away, I attributed a lot of that ability to take the penny away is that it became easier as less people carried cash and coins.
00:34:29
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:34:30
Plant People
That probably facilitated that process. So I'm really surprised, Brett, that 19% movement there in likelihood to use cash.
00:34:40
Brett
Yeah, well one of one of the things that some of these studies seem to indicate was that
00:34:44
Jessica
Thank you.
00:34:44
Brett
that customers did indicate some intention to continue to or begin to carry cash more. So in other words, cash isn't dead.
00:34:52
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:34:53
Brett
The problem is it was so far beat down close to being dead that even an incremental increase of 50% is still gonna be pretty small compared to the amount of people that have fully wholesale gone to carrying plastic and that's it.
00:34:54
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:35:09
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:35:11
Brett
Do you all feel, really sorry.
00:35:11
Alexis
I always think that's I was going to say, i um when I think about whether or not to charge a processing fee, you mentioned many things.
00:35:23
Alexis
price you know What is the actual price point?
00:35:24
Brett
Thank
00:35:26
Alexis
If is whatever. or even more, ah there's that to consider. But I also kind of think about, you know, to me, it's sort of like charging a credit card fee is sort of like more cash in my pocket today, but i and but I'm not claiming that on my taxes down the road.
00:35:46
Alexis
um So, you know, if you're one of those people who, you is always stressed that you might owe a bunch with most small businesses don't owe, but like if you're one of those people who's stressed about what you might have to owe, ah ah owe the government at, at during tax season, you know, then using these credit card fees as a write-off can help you in that department. You know, if if that's, ah if you're in the scenario where you're not able to save a lot, just in case you're, you owe something that's potential there versus you know, having money in your pocket today. So there's also that kind of way to frame it as a business owner, too.
00:36:26
Brett
Yeah, that's a great point that there's a, there is a, a both a cashflow and a tax liability consideration as part of that.
00:36:29
Jessica
Thank you.
00:36:31
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:36:32
Alexis
hmm.
00:36:33
Brett
And again, when you're moving to retailers, that are doing millions or hundreds of millions of dollars and then suddenly, you know, 2.5% or whatever becomes really, really non-trivial as a, okay, what's the the best strategy here?
00:36:49
Brett
I think that there's also an argument to be made about, or a a conversation to be had about how how strong of a relationship do you have with your customers?
00:36:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:01
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:02
Brett
And how realistically or reliably can you communicate about it to them? Because I think if the fee feels very impersonal and it's just sort of like, here's the policy, ah it ah it feels you know a little, maybe has a little more sting to it.
00:37:17
Brett
I did come across some interviews with folks who have implemented these and they claim, which I find very hard to believe, that their customers don't care at all. And that you know that they, you know
00:37:26
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:29
Brett
They were selling larger amount like like ah larger pieces of equipment, lawn care equipment and stuff like that, where the 50% does you know bite in But
00:37:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:37:35
Plant People
yeah
00:37:38
Brett
and but but i think the other piece too is that um there's a credit crisis happening in the United States right now where people don't have cash themselves.
00:37:52
Brett
And so there's ethical implications here, but it could very well be that they don't have the money to buy your expensive thing unless they put it on a credit card.
00:38:00
Jessica
Thank you.
00:38:02
Brett
And whether you want to participate in that, again, that's beyond the scope of what I want to get into here. But Especially if you're talking about more expensive items, it's so, and we haven't even gotten into the buy now, pay later kind of stuff where Klarna and those types of things that function as these short-term, la more unsavory credit options ah that that fewer credit checks and that sort of thing.
00:38:27
Brett
um Nor did we talk about Bitcoin. there's a there was a There was a line on the thing.
00:38:32
Alexis
This is a hort culture ah podcast, so we're going to keep it we're gonna keep it along those lines.
00:38:33
Brett
That's right.
00:38:34
Jessica
Thank you.
00:38:38
Brett
Yeah, chill, chill, Brett.
00:38:42
Brett
Peony coin or whatever, I don't know. um But yeah, I thought it was interesting when it's something that um it's one of those rare scenarios where something in my daily life intersects with things that I talk about with people out in the world. And so, I mean, I think if it's me, I'm probably going to at the very most do a cash discount, if not just keep prices the same and just bank on the fact that you're going to be making more money than you would if you didn't take them and think of it as a cost of but cost of doing business.
00:39:12
Brett
hard to swallow that. I understand. um But it's the the data seem to suggest that the the threat, especially in a small business, of isolating a consumer base outweighs the money that's going to be coming in. you know And don't necessarily quote me on that for every scenario, but I think for a lot of scenarios, that's probably the case, especially given the what we know about how people spend money when they put it on a card.
00:39:39
Brett
um Yeah. So I think, thanks for indulging me on that little trip down thought lane.
00:39:44
Alexis
No, that was good.
00:39:45
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:39:47
Brett
Any final thoughts from anybody?
00:39:47
Alexis
kind Well, remind people where if they want to go, if they're a person who likes to read something to fully understand it, where they can find that.
00:39:57
Brett
Yeah. So if you go to ccd.uky.edu, which is the Center for Crop Diversification website, that's where Alexis and I work along with some of our colleagues.
00:40:07
Alexis
Hello.
00:40:08
Brett
And if you go on there and scroll down just on the main page, there's a bunch of different news articles, including the one about ah caring for your high tunnel when it's cold and snowy, as well as this one. And if you click it, all of the stats and and references are linked in there so you can click out and and view them yourself.
00:40:25
Brett
Just a very short little read. And if you're not subscribed to our newsletter, you can also do that on the website.
00:40:27
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:40:32
Brett
So you go to ccd.uky.edu, scroll all the way down to the bottom, and there's a link to our newsletter to subscribe there. So appreciate appreciate the reminder to to plug it.
00:40:43
Alexis
Yeah. And maybe if you're going into farmer's market season and, you know, every year you're kind of starting new.
00:40:46
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:40:48
Alexis
So if you've been thinking about doing that, do it as you start, like in the first market, even if you didn't do it last year, a lot of people won't remember that. Or, um you know, even if they do, you can just be like, hey, twenty it's 2026 now and things are expensive.
00:41:02
Alexis
So um yeah, yeah.
00:41:03
Brett
Yeah, totally.
00:41:05
Alexis
I think it, like you said, like doing it up front as, soon as ah to As close to the start as possible is helpful for people um to to get around that and get used to it, things like that. but Anyways, yes, you can follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast.
00:41:21
Alexis
If you've got more questions about whether this is the right situation for you and maybe you just need a little bit more one-on-one help with that, you can always shoot an email to us. Our email is down there in the show notes and we will make sure Brett is is the one that answers that because he's all knowledgeable about credit card fees now.
00:41:40
Alexis
So we'll make sure he gets a hold of
00:41:41
Brett
i'd hoped I'd hoped for a better claim to fame by now.
00:41:46
Alexis
You have many bread. That's just one. That's just today's.
00:41:48
Plant People
He's the swap King, the swipe King, the swiper.
00:41:49
Alexis
so
00:41:50
Brett
bal Baldest horticulture host.
00:41:53
Alexis
But true.
00:41:53
Brett
That's my superlative.
00:41:53
Alexis
That is true. But anyways, we are so glad you were here with us today. If you have ideas for shows that you want to hear or people you want to hear from, we've just been planning our guest list for the next few months. So if there's anybody in particular you'd love to hear or learn more from, please shoot us a DM on Instagram or shoot us an email or um you know tell us when you give us five stars for this episode that who you who you want to hear from next. Yeah.
00:42:22
Alexis
Well, we appreciate you being here with us today and we hope you join us next time. Have a great one.