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Inside Yew Dell: Plants, Passion & Public Gardens
4 Playsin 4 days
In this episode of Hort Culture, the crew welcomes Jacob Stidham from Yew Dell Botanical Gardens for a wide-ranging conversation about plant passion, nursery life, and the evolving landscape of Kentucky horticulture. In addition to his work at Yew Dell, Jacob is a leader in both the Kentucky Horticulture Council and the Kentucky Nursery and Landscape Association, helping shape the future of the industry across the state.
Jacob shares stories from his early days gardening with his grandparents to his career journey through greenhouses and into botanical garden leadership. The group swaps bucket-list garden experiences—from England’s Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew and the Chelsea Flower Show to botanical destinations across the U.S.—while reflecting on the power of gardens to create lifelong memories.
They dive into Yew Dell’s role as an approachable, year-round botanical garden, its growing nursery program, plant trials, and educational mission. The conversation also tackles industry trends, including the native vs. non-native debate, the importance of accurate plant education in the social media era, and the urgent need to bring more young people into horticulture through hands-on experience.
From coleus love to overwintering challenges, this episode celebrates curiosity, experimentation, and the joy of growing—while reminding listeners that sometimes the best way to learn plants is to kill a few along the way.
Kentucky Nursery & Landscape Association
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Garden
The Arboretum, State Botanical Garden of Kentucky
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest Jacob Stidham
00:00:16
Alexis
and the culture of horticulture. We have a guest on today, so we're going to introduce. Very exciting. And Jacob, why don't you introduce yourself to get us started?
00:00:26
Jacob Stidham
Yeah, Jacob Stidham, work here at Udell Botanical Gardens just outside Louisville, Kentucky. i Been in and out of different types of greenhouses for I think 25 years this year.
00:00:38
Jacob Stidham
Also a board member with the Kentucky Nursery and Landscape Association and on the board of the Kentucky Whore Council.
00:00:47
Alexis
Awesome. Lots of good.
00:00:47
Jessica
Very cool.
00:00:48
Alexis
We've we've had some Hort Council peeps on here, so shout out to them for sure.
00:00:52
Jacob Stidham
It's a great group.
00:00:54
Plant People
Well, yeah, we're going to jump into what what Udell is here in a little bit and and talk talk more, but I have ah a question here. So, Jacob, as I was looking some of what you've done before, I saw that as part of your your schooling as a Boilermaker,
UK Horticultural Experiences
00:01:11
Plant People
am I correct?
00:01:11
Plant People
The Purdue Boilermakers.
00:01:11
Jacob Stidham
That's right. it.
00:01:13
Plant People
you You actually had the opportunity to spend some time in England hanging out and seeing some the Kew Gardens and the Chelsea Flower Show and all that kind of stuff.
00:01:22
Alexis
Oh.
00:01:25
Plant People
And so I was curious if you had to take one of those that for for you, you would recommend to others to add to their bucket list.
00:01:26
Jessica
Bucket list.
00:01:35
Jacob Stidham
all of it
00:01:36
Plant People
What might be on, which one which one of those places that you you went to?
00:01:40
Plant People
And if you want to do two, you know, Alexis might alexxiis might keep you, to try to keep you from doing it, but we have we have the ability to stretch the rules for you.
00:01:48
Alexis
Oh.
00:01:48
Plant People
Which ones might you might you recommend most highly?
00:01:53
Jacob Stidham
that That might be harder than asking me what my favorite plant is. um yeah We were over there for 18 days on a Maymester through Purdue. So we did to the gardens, like you said, Chelsea Flower Show.
00:02:06
Jacob Stidham
ah The Chelsea Flower Show is I've not been to the Philadelphia Flower Show here in the States, but it was awe-inspiring. They're really showing off what they do.
00:02:18
Jacob Stidham
Over here, if you go to trade shows, it's a lot about sales and things like that. But over there, they were just very proud to show you their horticulture. um And then the gardens, I mean, all of them had something different, but walking out of Hampton Court through the back of the castle and seeing the gardens, that was our first stop on the trip.
00:02:41
Jacob Stidham
England just brings such a different level of horticulture ingrained in their society. But to be fair, they have much better weather than we do here in the Kentucky area.
00:02:51
Alexis
Yeah. Lucky. but
00:02:52
Jacob Stidham
and You know, they weren't under two foot of snow and five degrees below zero two weeks ago.
Plant-centric Vacations Discussion
00:03:01
Plant People
What about you all?
00:03:01
Alexis
lucky
00:03:02
Plant People
Do you all have ah a thing that you've traveled, you Alexis or or Jessica, that you've you've traveled to see plant or horticulture related? that you know It doesn't have to be the best the very best one, but the one that comes to mind that you're like, you know, if I were helping someone to assemble their bucket list, I would recommend this one.
00:03:21
Jessica
I actually was just talking to somebody kind of about this who is getting ready to go to Hawaii for the first time.
00:03:27
Jacob Stidham
you
00:03:28
Plant People
Mmm.
00:03:28
Jessica
And I had the opportunity to go to Hawaii 10 years ago. and I always make this joke because it's so true. Like farm people, plant people on our vacations. We do farm people things and plant people things, right? That's what you do even on your vacations. So I was just actually sharing with somebody how cool it was to obviously going to the national park there with the Volcano National Park. But then I was telling them about like, oh, hey, while you're there, you should check out a lot of the um of the coffee plantations while you're there or just the botanical gardens that are there or there was I was telling her a great detail about on your way to the volcano there is a orchid greenhouse and they only do orchids and you know all these different things like that so something a little more you know unique one of those other bucket list things of being able to go to that national park and those opportunities to see how some of those crops are grown
00:04:01
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:04:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:04:18
Jacob Stidham
Thank you.
00:04:28
Alexis
Yeah, tip, never pass up a botanical garden.
00:04:31
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:04:31
Alexis
I've i've yet to be go to one that I didn't enjoy in some way. Yeah. That's just, we'll we'll center, we center our vacations around two things. Can we can we fish there? And is there a botanical garden and botanical park, something along those lines. um The most recent one I went to that I was really, that was so cool was the Phoenix Botanical Garden. Because they've got, you know, Arizona has these really vast different types of landscapes. And so they have a little bit of everything um up there. They do a really good job. So they have like different cacti collections and that, you know, they're like 40 foot tall. And I'm like, what is this is a tree, but it's a succulent, but it's that it's a tree, you know? And so there's just a lot to see ah in that way. So I would say just like rule of thumb, if you can go to a botanical garden, i don't care where it is, you should go.
Unique Botanical Visits
00:05:25
Plant People
I like that.
00:05:26
Jessica
Can I share one more that's really cool and unique?
00:05:28
Plant People
I would encourage you to. Yes.
00:05:30
Jessica
Okay. ah The Florida, going to Florida Keys, right? Also a great opportunity to see some really cool botanical things. We, my husband and i had the opportunity to go to the fruit and spice botanical garden ah once.
00:05:42
Jacob Stidham
oh
00:05:43
Jessica
And it was pretty amazing because everything you could think of like tropical fruit, they were trying to grow there or spices, right? And it was, it was a very unique experience um to see all these little different plants and some huge plants or, you know, um but that was all right there, right at the the Florida Keys.
00:06:05
Jessica
So very cool experience.
00:06:05
Plant People
Florida Keys now has the song Kokomo stuck in my head. a And you specifically singing it, Jessica. So thank you.
00:06:15
Jessica
Oh, thank you.
00:06:16
Plant People
Yeah, thats it's in it's in there.
00:06:16
Jessica
Sure. It sounds great.
00:06:17
Alexis
she's She's great.
00:06:19
Plant People
Yeah.
Jacob's Gardening Roots
00:06:20
Plant People
Jacob, are you at your at your core? Would you say that you're a plant person? And it when when do you remember that starting?
00:06:25
Jacob Stidham
Absolutely. um you know
00:06:28
Plant People
Or like what's kind of been your, when when did you know?
00:06:30
Alexis
was your What was your gateway drug to to plants?
00:06:31
Plant People
When did you know you were yeah you were a plant person?
00:06:35
Jacob Stidham
Really growing up, I was always out in the garden with my mom and dad, my grandma and grandpa. I grew up in southern Indiana right across the river from Louisville. but My grandparents were born down in eastern Kentucky down in Letcher County.
00:06:48
Jacob Stidham
And like any good mountain folk, you know, they know how to grow a garden. I spent many a days a kid picking the white the mountain half runners.
00:06:56
Alexis
Hmm.
00:06:57
Jacob Stidham
So always felt a connection to gardening and knowing where your food comes from. And it's just really grown cron since then. So at a very early age.
00:07:09
Jessica
Very cool.
00:07:09
Alexis
Yeah, I think gardening is a lot of our segues, or at least Jessica and I, like art we just grew up with it, right? And you just grow up getting dirty, planting something, and, you know, hopefully harvesting something from it. If you can keep the squirrels and the rabbits away, that is.
00:07:27
Plant People
Yeah, I think I'm the, if I am a hardcore plant person, which I'm not really entirely convinced that I am, but
Childhood Plant Memories
00:07:34
Alexis
is. Just a different kind than us.
00:07:35
Plant People
I'm the latest, I'm the latest bloomer of the group by a long shot.
00:07:40
Plant People
I think, I think everybody else was keyed in and I, I came late to the party. So I'm always curious. Well, cause sometimes, you know, you you end up in a situation where your job's a really good fit and like you are interested in the thing and it allows you to do it.
00:07:52
Plant People
And then the other times it's like, you just, you end up in a job and you're good at it and you can figure it out, but You know, your real passion is, is yeah, snowboarding, for example.
00:08:00
Alexis
Snowboarding.
00:08:03
Plant People
Olympics plug.
00:08:04
Alexis
Olympics are on my brain.
00:08:05
Plant People
so
00:08:08
Jacob Stidham
Do you all have a ah plant that you remember from your childhood that just ingrained, whether it's a tree or anything like that?
00:08:17
Alexis
We had ah the farm I grew up on. There was this weird little ah crab apple in the woods that was just like on the edge of the woods. And it was like the perfect tree to sit in.
00:08:29
Alexis
Like it wasn't huge. It wasn't so tall. But like as a kid, I could get in it. And I felt like I was up, you know, really high and had like the perfect little sitting branch. So, you know, i could sit up there and read and the dogs would just lay under the.
00:08:40
Alexis
So that was that's my immediate like the little crab apple in the woods.
00:08:41
Plant People
Thank
00:08:44
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:08:44
Alexis
Mom knew where to find me. It was it was there.
00:08:46
Jacob Stidham
Yeah, my grandma would grow castor beans.
00:08:50
Alexis
Mm.
00:08:50
Jacob Stidham
Kids, so the great big green plants that we get tall as a house.
00:08:52
Alexis
Yeah.
00:08:53
Jacob Stidham
And we call them dog ticks because if you've seen that seed before, it looks like a tick that's swelled up full of blood.
00:08:59
Jessica
huh
00:09:00
Jacob Stidham
Not to get what it looks like. So sweet we called them dog ticks. And I remember going out there and, you know, as little kid karate chopping off the yellow leaves that had formed on the bottom. And to bring it full circle, you know, we've had those planted here at Udell in display gardens ah since I've been here. So it's really nice to be able to see kids see the same thing that I did and maybe spark that same passion for them.
00:09:00
Alexis
Mm.
00:09:23
Alexis
They do give off like a um Jurassic Park vibe when they're really big because the leaves get so large, you know these like bright red spiky looking things. ah So they are very like for a plant that is, you know, something that grows here easily. It is. It's very, very Jurassic Park vibes. I think like
Overview of Udell Botanical Gardens
00:09:43
Alexis
I play in that as a kid.
00:09:47
Alexis
For sure. Jessica, what about you?
00:09:51
Jessica
um One, it's kind of it's almost like, oh, it's kind of sad, but um i used to have a huge ash tree outside my parents' house, like a massive one that was right outside my bedroom window.
00:09:59
Jacob Stidham
Thank you.
00:10:05
Jessica
And I remember doing my very first like leaf collection, like tree observation on it. And ironically enough, a few weekends ago, I ran into that teacher who did that project.
00:10:18
Jessica
And I was like, hey, do you remember me? Hey, by the way, core memory did that project. I have a degree in horticulture now. Right. i was like, you made a difference.
00:10:27
Alexis
Look what you've done.
00:10:28
Jessica
Yeah. um But we still have like, it is course declined by this point, that ash tree. um But we have a big chunk of the stump of it still in my parents' yard. And ah so I think fondly of that, that tree that was there pretty much my entire childhood and right outside my bedroom window.
00:10:51
Jessica
so
00:10:51
Jacob Stidham
Great.
00:10:53
Alexis
Brett. bread
00:10:54
Jessica
Bye.
00:10:56
Plant People
Um, I, I would say there's like a so a silver maple that was in my parents' backyard that I climbed on some. And then i remember having a garden at my grandma's house, uh, growing, growing some vegetables and stuff like that.
00:11:10
Plant People
But they, you know, those were, but don't have a as vivid of plant memories necessarily from that, from that era.
00:11:17
Alexis
Brett's making so many new plant memories that he's like, I don't need those old ones. Well, we're talking about trees and Jacob, you mentioned you work at Udell. Tell us about the gem that is Udell. Jessica and i love Udell. So tell us more about it.
00:11:35
Jacob Stidham
We'll appreciate that intro. it's It's a magical place to work.
00:11:37
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:38
Jacob Stidham
I've been here since January of 2018, so I've seen the gardens grow quite a bit.
00:11:44
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:44
Jacob Stidham
We're a little bit for everyone. Just like all those core memories we were just talking about. You know, Udell is that for a lot of the kids that come through today, whether it's seeing the big leaf magnolia in full flower with the flowers that are big as a great big dinner platter.
00:12:00
Jacob Stidham
A lot of people have had weddings here, and so they share that memory throughout the rest of their lives.
00:12:03
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:05
Jacob Stidham
But no, active botanical garden. So lots of display gardens. We're about 30 acres of maintained garden spaces and arboretum. We've got about 30 more acres of woodlands where we have a couple lakes and such like that. So hiking trails, plenty of bird watching opportunities throughout the property, especially in the woodlands.
00:12:25
Jacob Stidham
I came on to start developing a nursery here. and that in 2018. So now we're an active nursery growing thousands of plants for our annual displays each year, perennials, plant sales, our online sales for 2026 went live just this week. um And then get into the educational aspect of it. So workshops and seminars and lectures and things like that to really really open the community's mind and eyes up to to the world of plants.
00:12:59
Jessica
Thank you.
00:12:59
Alexis
Yeah, it's a, I feel like Udell is just such a approachable, like botanical garden for people who like, you know, maybe aren't sure or you have never been to an arboretum or there's just like you said, there's a little something for everybody. And there's really like, cool little niches, you all have the like, you know, the castle, the little mini castle there. And there's just, there's so much like history just the stonework that's in some of those areas is is so beautiful. And um i I was there in late October was the last time I was there. And, you know, you had great signage, you know, if someone wants to know, I literally have on my phone a picture of a sign of an aster that I saw that I've never seen before. And I was like, I need to own this.
00:13:42
Alexis
And then took a picture of it. It's still on my phone for one day when I can find it But the you know signage is great. It just feels like a really approachable place for you don't have to know a ton about plants.
00:13:50
Jessica
you
00:13:52
Alexis
If you just enjoy being outside, you know walking in the shade under some of those stunning trees, ah it's a really great place to go. And there's like kids areas that are also super cool that I love to go through, like the fairy garden.
00:14:05
Alexis
And um there's a big beach, I think, that's like right on one of the like outer perimeters that I pass. I'm always like, hey, hey. I wave to her as I go by.
00:14:16
Jacob Stidham
Yeah, the fairy forest is a big hit with both the little kids and the ah the adults. um That's been going on.
00:14:23
Alexis
whip The whimsy.
00:14:24
Jacob Stidham
Yeah. um And then, you know, you you talked about the the aster you took a picture of. That's kind of what we're trying to do with the nursery is get more these hard to find perennials into the hands of the people that are looking for them that you can't find in box stores and ah definitely grow a whole lot of your more unusual, especially shade plants.
00:14:32
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:14:43
Alexis
Yeah.
00:14:44
Jessica
Yeah. I remember that on one of our tours that we had where those were really high.
00:14:48
Alexis
The shade gardens are.
00:14:49
Jessica
Yeah. They were really highlighted. And I also, you talk about having pictures on your phones. I know I had pictures of one year you all were doing, i think an echinacea trial um out there.
00:14:59
Alexis
Hmm.
00:15:00
Jessica
So do you guys do, do you trial a lot of different plants for just yourselves or for companies or how does that work with those little tests, the test beds that we've seen?
00:15:11
Jacob Stidham
We do. We kind of consider the whole garden a big evaluation. You know, whether it's the annuals that we put in this year, you know, come August, September, we're going to see like, well, that one, we're not going to do that one anymore. But this one was great. But we've definitely partnered with a lot of nurseries and breeders around the industry and around the country ah to be an asset for them to trial new plants or see if something's going to be hardy in this area.
00:15:38
Jacob Stidham
And we've got the two evaluation gardens we've had going for a few years, really trying to get as many of one type of species, as many cultivars together in one place.
00:15:38
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:15:48
Jacob Stidham
So the visitors, and they come in they can see right next to each other which one they might like and that's hard to grasp when you're walking down the aisles of an independent garden center and you see you see two echinaceas and you're like well which one which one's going to look better in two or three years so they can come visit us and really see a whole lot right next to each other we got a good blue stem big blue stem and little blue stem trial that we started last year so that's going to be really spectacular this fall when they get established
00:16:16
Alexis
The ah Amsonia that you all have, um so there's like there's an area down by the, is it like the pavilion and one of the barns? That is just spectacular. I think I get so much inspiration going for like my own beds. ah when When you're feeling a lull, go at some point in the season. If you're like, wow, I'd really love to have more fall color. Go to Udell. See what's going on there. How they've paired things together. um it just I love seeing how you all pair this sort of perennial. A lot of them are native perennials, but perennials with... um
00:16:50
Alexis
annuals I think you all do such a great job of of mixing those together into that there's just this interest kind of year round for people. I think that's really inspiring when people are trying to do, you know, more natives or, you know, ah something along those lines. It can be really tough sometimes to imagine them together.
00:17:06
Jacob Stidham
Yeah, and we're very, very diverse in our plant collection. Even being here in Kentucky, we bloom 365 days a year outside, which is, it's hard to
Year-round Blooms at Udell
00:17:17
Jacob Stidham
believe, but if you add in your witch hazels and stuff into December, you know, we got some of the real minor bulbs coming up. The snow finally melted for the most part here yesterday and today.
00:17:26
Jacob Stidham
um We're getting back into seeing our hellebores that had started to flower in early January and December.
00:17:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:32
Jacob Stidham
So people are kind of blown away when we say we do bloom 365 days a year. You know, don't expect fields of daffodils throughout the year, but for a plant person coming out and finding those little hidden gems mixed out through the gardens is really fun.
00:17:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:48
Jessica
you
00:17:49
Alexis
Gives you some ah something to look forward to as well. Like, you know, the depths of winter and the ice is melting. and You're like, okay, there is something. There's something here for me that's interesting, whether it's blooming or just, you know, pretty bark or something like that. That's always nice for sure.
00:18:06
Alexis
oh man. Oh, now I want to go Come on. Let's go. Everybody, we're going. Why aren't we doing this at Udell? It's what we should be doing. just This podcast in person.
00:18:15
Jessica
As we were talking, I was just thinking, I was like, man, I've been there during the spring. I've been there during, you know, like mid-summer. and I was like, well, i need to go now in the fall and the winter as well. Like, so you have something, you know, like you said, all year long for people to see.
00:18:28
Jacob Stidham
It's a great time to really pay attention to our evergreen collection. You know, that can kind of be overlooked when all the deciduous trees have their leaves on and there's just everywhere. But we do have a really nice collection of evergreens throughout the property that really show off this time of year.
00:18:45
Jessica
Thank you.
00:18:49
Alexis
so exciting.
Industry Involvement and Networking
00:18:50
Plant People
So you, you mentioned that you were, you've been involved with the Kentucky Horticulture Council and the Kentucky Nursery and Landscape Association, I think as well. What, what's been your involvement with that?
00:19:02
Plant People
you know, is there, is there a UDEL involvement, you know, do you have meetings or anything there or, you know, kind of what's, what's been your role in that sphere?
00:19:10
Jacob Stidham
um We definitely had some K&A meetings out here. i think it was probably three or four years ago. um Kentucky K&A had their summer outing. at UDEL. I've been on the board, I believe it was summer of 2019. So I've seen it through the pandemic and how that all changed things. And we went virtual one year. But really working with a bunch of like-minded individuals from across the state to help organize the hopeful meetings and things like that and bring people together a couple times a year for networking, continuing education and things like that.
00:19:49
Jessica
So a part of those groups too, are there like any issues and stuff that like is coming across with some of the Kentucky nurseries and stuff now?
00:19:59
Jacob Stidham
In terms of just like struggling with some aspects of business and things.
00:20:03
Jessica
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:05
Jacob Stidham
I would say the the one even outside of the K&LA, at any industry association, and and I think this goes outside of our industry as well, it's just finding the talent to fill the world that we have a desperate need of to get people in here that are passionate like us n and get them involved in working with us.
00:20:29
Alexis
Yeah, I feel like ah being ah seen that a lot, you know, Jessica and i both
Horticulture Industry Challenges
00:20:35
Alexis
graduated from UK and just the amount of people that in our graduating class was so small with horticulture and, you know, that nursery degree.
00:20:44
Alexis
And it has grown substantially. i have seen, you know, since i I graduated many years ago, it has, you know, continued to grow, which is always inspiring. But, you know, horticulture in general is so broad, right?
00:20:56
Alexis
So just because you study horticulture doesn't mean you have a passion for nursery and growing plants. And, you know, if that's the angle you want to go, you could be doing turf or, you know, growing vegetables and farming and stuff.
00:21:06
Jessica
Thank you.
00:21:06
Jacob Stidham
Absolutely.
00:21:07
Alexis
But, The nursery, man, i I'm so always so impressed by nursery people because it's it's not only the cultivars, but you know there's it's much different growing ah a perennial plant right to size than it is to grow just an annual that you're turning over quickly or hanging basket that you're only touching for a short period of time compared to, you know, you're probably starting plants and doing special seed treatments and things like that and then keeping them and taking care of them for, what, two years at a minimum sometimes?
00:21:39
Jacob Stidham
Oh, if you get into some of your tree nurseries where they're growing in the field, um three, four, five years.
00:21:44
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:21:46
Jacob Stidham
So you you have to be willing to take that gamble that, yep, that tree is going to make it, got to take care of it.
00:21:47
Alexis
Yeah.
00:21:52
Jacob Stidham
And then there are the customer is going to be wanting to buy it still in five years.
00:21:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:57
Jacob Stidham
So it can definitely be an investment.
00:21:57
Alexis
but Yeah.
00:21:58
Jacob Stidham
But like you said, the... There's so many aspects of the industry. Even if you're, you know, you're good at marketing and you like that. There's so many plant companies that that need people in marketing to share what we do. Accountants, every business needs accountants and money people and business people.
00:21:58
Jessica
you
00:22:16
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:17
Jacob Stidham
And I think you really hit on a passionate oh topic for me. I think too many kids at a young age are told they need to be a doctor or a lawyer and all the avenues aren't explored.
00:22:34
Jacob Stidham
you know, they just get into school and then they get out and they don't know what to do.
00:22:35
Alexis
Yeah.
00:22:39
Jacob Stidham
They didn't get those part-time jobs in high school in a greenhouse like I did.
Inspiring Young Horticulturists
00:22:43
Jacob Stidham
They didn't get to experience the smell of potting soil on a February day when the sun's out in that greenhouse.
00:22:43
Alexis
is
00:22:51
Jacob Stidham
And they get too far into life and they miss that opportunity. I can talk all day about bringing more of that stuff, the need to bring more of that stuff back into high school and middle school. A son that's in fourth grade, um and there's no reason those kids shouldn't be able to experience that to see if it sparks that passion like that ash tree did um for you as a young kid. So, yeah.
00:23:19
Alexis
That's how many people have probably all of us met who, when we tell, you know, you're introduced yourself, you tell them what you do. So many people go, Oh, I love that. I wish I had known to do that. Or, uh, you know, I'm too far, like just exactly what you said. I'm too far along in life to change career paths now. Or, um, I wish I had known that was an option. And, uh, yeah, Yeah, I feel I feel lucky. I also like interned and in a greenhouse between i was like, I don't want to be a civil engineer. What am I going to do with my life? And, you know, interned in a plant place and learned there were careers in that. And so ah that's a really great point that kids just don't even know it's an option. And not every school has even the option. Right. And in Kentucky, there's you can't get a plant degree and at every university and same in other states. So, yeah.
00:24:10
Alexis
That can be even more limiting.
00:24:13
Plant People
Just to be clear, Alexis didn't have trouble with the engineering part. She had trouble with being civil. That was why she had to end up opting out of that.
00:24:18
Alexis
ah
00:24:20
Jacob Stidham
Yeah.
00:24:22
Alexis
I mean, you're not wrong.
00:24:25
Jessica
you
00:24:26
Plant People
Well, so I hang out with a lot of plant people and it's, you know, we end up getting a lot of plant people on this podcast. So I want to pick your brain about it.
Edible Gardening and Social Media Trends
00:24:34
Plant People
If are there any plant trends that could be, ah you know,
00:24:37
Jacob Stidham
yeah
00:24:40
Plant People
consumers that could be landscaping could be other arboretums and things that you've been to but are there any plant trends that you're either really into and excited about or very over like please don't ask me for this again can this just go away yeah both please
00:24:55
Alexis
We want both, actually. I want to know both.
00:24:57
Jessica
Yes, please tell us both.
00:24:58
Jacob Stidham
ah I'll give you both. Let's go back to those mountain half runners that, you know, I helped my grandma and grandpa pick when I was a little kid. I think COVID and the pandemic really showed us that people do kind of yearn to know where their food came from. They had the summer off that year and they're like, hey, let's try it. I remember Papa and Granny doing this one as a kid, but my parents didn't do it I really hope with every ounce of myself that that's something that's going to kind of come back a little bit. We're going to lose some of those people that got into it in 2020.
00:25:29
Jacob Stidham
um But you you can't talk to anybody who eats a plate of food at home. that doesn't say it tastes better if they know where everything came from we have a lot of edible garden plants here around our cabin at udell we've got the cafe now chef mike is you know dishing out all kinds of great food we're starting to grow some of that food that goes through the cafe for our visitors and that's something that we need more of that everybody needs more of that um so that would be the trend
00:25:38
Alexis
Cool.
00:26:02
Jacob Stidham
that I am super excited about and I hope that stays and the stuff that I'm not excited about.
00:26:11
Jacob Stidham
Um, most anything that you see on the social medias, um,
00:26:18
Jacob Stidham
So I've been on Facebook now since the fall of 2004 to date myself a little bit there. It's. But the the issues I take with it is you have a lot of people that are really wanting to get into gardening, whether that's edible gardening, they want to do an ecological side of it, create more habitat, and they're yearning for knowledge.
00:26:43
Jacob Stidham
So they're doom scrolling, they're getting on the Facebook, and they see a meme, yay, yay All right, I need to plant native plants because they have deep roots. Everybody knows native plants are better because they have deep roots, right? That's just not.
00:26:57
Jacob Stidham
There's plants from all over the world. that have both deep roots and shallow roots. So I think as an industry, and that's what we try to do here at UDEL, is provide better information to people that's that's in depth.
00:27:10
Jacob Stidham
it It kind of goes past those two or three lines that you see on meme and really letting people scratch that itch and teach them what they want to know.
00:27:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:21
Jacob Stidham
and not just going through the fads of you know deep roots and no mome and don't rake the leaves which are all important but you can't you can't just look at two or three sentences and learn everything you need to know so
00:27:40
Alexis
Yeah, that's a good point. Especially, that yeah, the the native fads and the there's just you know so much
Favorite Plants and Gardening Challenges
00:27:49
Alexis
around that. i I'd like to know i'd like to know what your favorite plants are to grow in the nursery because I i just think, or what's your favorite plants to grow and then maybe what's what's your plant that you just can't seem to make thrive? and i And I ask that because we always say like every horticulturist has the thing they grow really well and or they enjoy. And there's always one plant that somebody can't grow. And mine is air plant, to give you an example. I kill every air plant I've ever had. so ah
00:28:19
Alexis
I'm like, ah you know, I know someone who can grow an entire beautiful greenhouse, every tropical plant you can imagine, but can't keep aloe alive, right? So we all have something. So i'm curious if you if you also have a plant that you don't do as well or plants you just really love. I won't put you too much on the spot.
00:28:38
Jacob Stidham
That's a, that's a tough question. you can't ask a plant person that question.
00:28:40
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:42
Jacob Stidham
um
00:28:44
Jacob Stidham
You know, our cuttings for our summer annuals just came in yesterday. So we had 2000 cuttings come in and some of those are coleus. Coleus is kind of like a hosta is either a hate it or love it.
00:28:58
Jacob Stidham
I love it. um
00:29:00
Alexis
ah
00:29:01
Jacob Stidham
They, they,
00:29:02
Jessica
You're team Coleus at my house.
00:29:03
Alexis
yeah
00:29:05
Jacob Stidham
They root so well, and I think what I enjoy about growing them so much in a greenhouse setting, and I've stepped away from the growing aspect here. Jeff takes care of that now. but they make such good patchwork color blocks in the green.
00:29:18
Alexis
Yes.
00:29:20
Jacob Stidham
We use a lot of those pictures in our marketing to promote plant sales and nursery and UDL in general. You know, it's kind of like that patchwork quilt that you saw your your grandma make or something. So it's just it's just really fun. They grow really uniform.
00:29:34
Jacob Stidham
They're easy. And then the plants that are hard,
00:29:37
Alexis
vision
00:29:41
Jacob Stidham
There are a few perennials that we just haven't figured out here at Udell. um I've had a horrible time overwintering certain types of anemones in our hoops.
00:29:54
Alexis
Yeah,
00:29:54
Jacob Stidham
They have to do with the the greenhouses we're overwintering them in. but But you're right, there's some people that, you know, Brett might be able to take an air plant, throw it in his desk drawer and pull it out in two years and be like, yeah, this thing's still doing great.
00:30:07
Jacob Stidham
And then you look at
00:30:08
Alexis
yeah it's three times the size and yeah.
00:30:10
Jacob Stidham
Yeah. but that's That's what makes what we do so magical is you're never going to know everything. And the best way to learn how to grow plants is to kill some.
00:30:18
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
Native vs. Non-native Plant Debate
00:30:26
Jessica
That's how you know you're a true plant person.
00:30:26
Alexis
What?
00:30:28
Jessica
We talk about that, right?
00:30:29
Alexis
Yeah, I know we're, ah where we know memes aren't always the best thing, but the one ah that's, um it's Loki and they say something and you say like, oh, I just killed another plant.
00:30:30
Jessica
Like...
00:30:40
Alexis
Your friend's so upset. I just killed a plant. And you're just like, yes, so sad. Anyways, that's what horticulturists are. They're like, well, we've we've killed so many at this point.
00:30:51
Jessica
We just laugh about it
00:30:52
Alexis
yeah You gotta, just gotta to hope that it wasn't something super rare you can't get again.
00:31:00
Alexis
Awesome.
00:31:00
Plant People
Well, I noticed that
00:31:00
Alexis
Well, how do you... Yeah, sorry. Go ahead, Brett.
00:31:03
Plant People
i was going to we talked briefly or we touched briefly on this idea of of native plants. And I think, um you know, one of the I would say one of the trends that I would like to see go away is the like kind of native pure pure nativeness vibe.
00:31:28
Plant People
ah like, oh, you got to do all natives. And, you know, there's a, there's a portion who you just mentioned you were growing coleus. There's a portion of, of our audience that would probably is expecting me to just throw you off because last time I checked, there's no native coleus.
00:31:41
Jacob Stidham
canceled.
00:31:42
Plant People
Jacob, you're out.
00:31:42
Jacob Stidham
I'm done. Go ahead and stop the podcast.
00:31:45
Plant People
Okay. This has gone differently than we thought, but no, but we, but I think it's one of the beautiful things about horticulture and about ah just being able to delve a little bit longer and down into some longer conversations is that,
00:31:46
Alexis
Sorry, folks.
00:31:58
Plant People
my The landscape at my house is a blend of natives and non-natives and um a lot of different cultivation techniques and approaches and varieties, improved varieties, things that don't spread disease as much, all yada, yada, yada. But um I was just curious, like how do you all...
00:32:17
Plant People
handle that or or navigate that native, non-native. i think that there's been a little bit more tolerance that has come back into the space over the last few years, but I was just curious how you all have navigated that.
00:32:25
Jessica
Thank you.
00:32:30
Jacob Stidham
We do it all. So we have a tremendous amount of native plants here at Udell, but we also have a lot of exotic plants too. We don't do invasive plants.
00:32:41
Jacob Stidham
So a lot of people get their definitions confused on the difference between a native plant, an exotic plant, an aggressive plant, and an invasive.
00:32:42
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:32:49
Jacob Stidham
So an Eastern redbud, Circus canadensis, is native to Kentucky. where all of us are from. And a lot of times it'll be listed as invasive because it seeds itself everywhere.
00:33:02
Jacob Stidham
But it's just aggressive. That's kind of the niche that plants grown into. You know, clear cutting or something, they pop up. And so we, you know, going back to trying to educate as much as possible to our visitors,
00:33:16
Jacob Stidham
is that there's room for both.
00:33:20
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:33:20
Jacob Stidham
But I really appreciate someone that's completely native planting. um And I think, like you said, there's a lot more tolerance now. It had gotten pretty heated a few years ago.
00:33:34
Jacob Stidham
um You know, people were really, really talking bad about planting anything but besides native. But if you look at the state of Kentucky again, within our imaginary geopolitical lines, we have such an amazing population of native plants that a lot of other areas in the country aren't that fortunate.
00:33:51
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:53
Jacob Stidham
You know, we're some of the most diverse plant species in the whole country. So we should be promoting our native plants just for what they are. and Great plants, they're beautiful.
00:34:06
Jacob Stidham
um Obviously if they're native, the native wildlife and stuff will feed on them. But at the same time here at Udell we like to make sure we tell people that that hardy garden month, we're starting really build up a collection of those.
00:34:19
Jacob Stidham
When they're blooming in November, the pollinators are all over them. and look around like we gotta go tell these bees and wasps and everything they need to stop feeding on the chrysanthemums because they're not native and it's not good for them.
00:34:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:34:34
Jacob Stidham
like that So it's pretty
Kentucky's Native Plant Diversity
00:34:37
Jacob Stidham
neat. um And I would encourage people to look out and or to the Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden because they do a whole lot of classes and kind of citizen science type research.
00:34:52
Alexis
here
00:34:52
Jacob Stidham
between natives and cultivars and stuff. And they've found found that some cultivars of native species actually attract more insects than a straight species do.
00:35:04
Alexis
Huh. Interesting. i wonder if it's like color related or something.
00:35:08
Plant People
Yeah. It just makes me think of like, you know, i I enjoy bourbon, but I also have, you know, tequila and sake and things from all over the world. Take a little sip, you know, taste good, look good to learn from other places, get ah get a more cosmopolitan worldview through my nectar consumption if I'm a little bee butterfly. So yeah, that's a that's kind of cool.
00:35:33
Alexis
I'm pumped for these hearty moms, man. and i'm ah I'm a chrysanthemum lover. so ah we need to do some trading.
00:35:39
Jacob Stidham
We'll definitely come up in and October, November, you know, we still have plenty of them blooming until late November. It's it's kind of what a lot of your moms came from that you see now on the garden center shelves.
00:35:47
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:35:52
Jacob Stidham
They've been bred to bloom earlier and earlier and earlier. But the the original is very late blooming.
00:35:59
Alexis
Yeah, as those nights come in, right? Just it signals them to bloom. Super cool. Awesome. Well, I would ask you, you know, we talked about ah we wish people were more exposed to the nursery and horticulture as job opportunities.
Advice for Aspiring Horticulturists
00:36:14
Alexis
So what advice might you give someone wanting to enter this sort of nursery landscape industry that you're in you know Where would you tell them to focus their energy if they're in school and you know trying to figure out what classes to take or whatever?
00:36:30
Jacob Stidham
A lot of it's getting out there and getting that part-time job. um And if you can find a part-time job in high school that you love and it's not really like going to work after school or on the weekends during the summer, that's a great place to start.
00:36:45
Jacob Stidham
And you can see so much of it. And with what we do, it's so hands-on. I relate horticulture a lot more to say electricians and plumbers and your trades people.
00:36:55
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:36:57
Jacob Stidham
We are so much more a trade than we are, you know, book learning.
00:37:00
Alexis
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:37:02
Jacob Stidham
I've got a degree out of Purdue University, but I've learned more on the job. by far than than I did sitting in the classroom. and And those really make a difference when you go out there to to find a job, you know that work that she put with it. Just talking today with Chelsea, Kentucky Court Council, we're gonna be hosting a round table here at UDEL about a registered apprentice program in Kentucky.
00:37:02
Jessica
Thank you.
00:37:31
Jacob Stidham
and the things we need to look at and talk about to to really get this going. But there's we need to offer a lot more opportunities to the youth to to get into what we do.
00:37:42
Alexis
Yeah, that interning. I worked in the greenhouses at ah at UK and at the farm. Jessica and Brett did as well. But I always say like, yeah, I learned stuff with my degree, but I knew how to use it because I worked in the greenhouse.
00:37:55
Alexis
um like it's It's cool to know. It's helpful, right? like It gives you a little bit of a boost when you need to go to step two.
00:37:58
Jessica
you
00:38:01
Alexis
But knowing how to pot something up and seeding efficiently is... those are huge skills that it's that have to be you know learned. um You just don't magically do it right the first time.
00:38:14
Jacob Stidham
And to to run greenhouse operations, you kind of have to be your own electrician, your own plumber, your own carpenter, to a certain extent for small things.
00:38:21
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:38:22
Jacob Stidham
um
00:38:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:38:24
Jacob Stidham
and And a lot of that's what's missing out of the four-year degree program.
00:38:28
Alexis
Yeah.
00:38:28
Jacob Stidham
And, yeah.
00:38:31
Alexis
Yeah, I learned how to do irrigation by getting like water blown up in my face, right? And you're like, oh, this isn't right. i don't know. The books don't tell me. Just get soaked.
00:38:39
Jessica
Well,
00:38:48
Plant People
ah So and maybe, maybe we can close with just a question about, as you look at, you know, you've got, i know you've had a lot, a lot of experience in, in greenhouses, commercial nurseries, retail nursery, now at UDL.
00:38:48
Alexis
Anyone else?
00:39:05
Plant People
As you think about Kentucky horticulture, what are you hopeful or excited, ah you know, positive? What are you, what are you really hopeful about in Kentucky horticulture?
00:39:16
Jacob Stidham
I think we're in a really good spot right now. um So i don't think we I don't think we have to do a lot to to get better. We're we're already good.
00:39:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:39:26
Jacob Stidham
I think, you know, you look at the, going back to the tobacco buyout and how it diversified agriculture in Kentucky.
Optimism in Kentucky's Horticulture Sector
00:39:37
Jacob Stidham
I think it's just more networking um and getting, i hope we can make a big push to get more of what we do into the schools.
00:39:47
Jacob Stidham
And like I said, we've been talking about bringing in more talent to the industry that we desperately need. um But it's it's great now.
00:39:59
Jacob Stidham
You know, i brag about that if I go out of state, how diverse our our agriculture is here Kentucky. And growing up in Indiana, you know, it's a big row crop state. We got plenty of row crops in Indiana or Kentucky too, but we're very diverse.
00:40:07
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:40:13
Jacob Stidham
It's been great working with the people at the Kentucky Court Council and all the associations underneath that umbrella, KNLA, and then networking with all our botanical gardens and public institutions across the state and talking to like-minded people like you.
00:40:29
Jacob Stidham
So I think what I'm most excited about is just doing what we're doing and keeping on keeping on.
00:40:36
Alexis
Sometimes we get wrapped up, you know, when you're in in the place, it's easy to think that we're not doing everything. And so got to step back sometime be like, oh, right, we're actually, we're actually doing pretty good.
00:40:46
Alexis
You know, like for we're not, you know, we're not California or Florida. We're different than them. And that's okay. And we're we're doing some great things. And Yeah, we're very diverse. I know that because CCD, we have like 200 publications we have to um to have to edit on different crops and stuff like that.
00:41:03
Alexis
So we we know for sure how diverse we could can be. And the state itself is so diverse as far as just climate and stuff across.
00:41:10
Jessica
Thank you.
00:41:12
Alexis
So, yeah.
00:41:13
Plant People
I think one of the things that I've seen through this podcast and through working
00:41:13
Alexis
Awesome.
00:41:18
Plant People
in extension and at the university and and with people is that it I, I've come to pitch it as like that, that horticulture is in everything.
00:41:28
Plant People
Like it's, and it's not, not in like a derivative way where the, you know, no shade to the soybean people, but the soybean people will be like, you know, your toilet paper is 8% soy or whatever. i'm like, that's cool.
00:41:38
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:41:39
Plant People
But like horticulture is so thoroughly woven into so many different aspects of human culture in similar and different ways across an international spectrum that you don't have to go very far in your life to see how and where it impacts you.
00:41:40
Jacob Stidham
Yeah.
00:41:57
Plant People
And that's the case. That's the case for, you like all of the citizens of Kentucky or of the United States or of the, you know, all the people of the world, as opposed to some other forms of agriculture that really have to make a pitch for here's how, you know, mean, yeah, you get your food at the grocery store and it's related to that, but like people have memories, they have experiences, they have these cultural engagements.
00:42:20
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:42:21
Plant People
They know that ah the shade of a tree feels good when it's hot. Like there's a, there's a whole lot of in ah ways that we're integrated into people's lives and And maybe they realize it, maybe we need to do a little bit better to job of pointing it out. But that's something that makes me feel excited and hopeful about horticulture is that it's so, it just is so human and so so culturally integrated across, and it becomes a common ground in a way.
00:42:51
Alexis
Oh, plants are human.
00:42:55
Alexis
Listen, Brett, Brett's always here to put us in our feels about ah plants and and all that. Jessica and I are like, let's go plant something outside.
00:43:03
Jessica
I know brett always so eloquent.
00:43:04
Alexis
Let's go climb some trees.
00:43:04
Plant People
So about the about those cuttings.
00:43:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:43:07
Jacob Stidham
Bring him out.
00:43:08
Jessica
yeah
00:43:08
Plant People
ah
00:43:09
Alexis
Yeah, not me like going to go steal ah cuttings from chrysanthemums. Be like, oh, what are these?
00:43:14
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:15
Jessica
I may be in like coleus.
00:43:16
Alexis
Just kidding. I won't do that. I will certainly purchase them from the Udell sale. Hopefully.
00:43:23
Jessica
How many different kinds of coleus are we talking about?
00:43:23
Alexis
Jessica might. ah
00:43:26
Jessica
i have a five-year-old who's obsessed with coleus. Think about He's five years old and he is obsessed with coleus. So we might have to come up there.
00:43:33
Jacob Stidham
bring him out
00:43:33
Plant People
Sounds pretty cool to me.
00:43:35
Jacob Stidham
ah bring them out. I would love to walk through with them and be able to pull up the cutting and show them that it doesn't have any roots and come back in a couple weeks and pull up that same cutting. That's exactly what Udell's here for is to to inspire and teach and make it accessible to everybody what we do.
00:43:35
Jessica
So...
00:43:55
Alexis
And Udell is spelled like the plant,
Engaging the Community through Udell's Programs
00:43:58
Jacob Stidham
right.
00:43:58
Plant People
y e W.
00:43:59
Alexis
Y-E-W-D-E-L.
00:44:01
Alexis
So just in case anybody's like looking it up, I remember the first time I looked it up and I was like, why can't I find this place? Because the plant brain hadn't kicked in yet.
00:44:08
Plant People
Like Uline, the packing company.
00:44:09
Alexis
i' was like was like, oh.
00:44:11
Plant People
It's just Udel, though.
00:44:12
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:44:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:44:13
Jacob Stidham
Yeah.
00:44:14
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:44:16
Alexis
Or just, I was like, U-Y-O-U?
00:44:16
Jacob Stidham
Udell.
00:44:17
Alexis
Is it really just Dell?
00:44:18
Plant People
Oh, God.
00:44:19
Alexis
What? Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:21
Jacob Stidham
Udellgardens.org.
00:44:23
Alexis
Awesome. Well, Jacob, thank you so much for joining us, telling us a little bit about KNLA, Plant Nerdy Now with us and how awesome Udell is and ah just such a cool job. And so remind everybody if they wanted to purchase plants, they can do that now.
00:44:39
Jacob Stidham
Yeah, through our website. If you go to udellgardens.org, click on the plant market, and we uploaded about 5,000 different perennials, not different types of perennials, but inventory-wise, it was probably 200 or 300 different species and things like that this week. So we'll be selling plants online throughout the year. Once we open back up to the public with the visitor center,
00:45:03
Jacob Stidham
And first Tuesday in March, we'll have plants sitting there to visit. Big spring plant sale the last Friday and Saturday of April. And then any of the events you come up to, we're starting the farmer's market now on the last Friday of every month in the summer months.
00:45:16
Alexis
Wow.
00:45:20
Jessica
you
00:45:20
Jacob Stidham
Concert series. So there's plants, music, food, plants, coleus cuttings, and even the architecture.
Conclusion and Invitation to Visit Udell
00:45:28
Jacob Stidham
So like like I said, when we started, there's a little bit here for everyone.
00:45:29
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:45:31
Jacob Stidham
And we'd love to have all you all come out.
00:45:34
Alexis
Yeah, they give great tours too. So if any of you are looking to take a group, Jessica and I have taken groups and and had the planned tour and it was really wonderful. So you don't have to you don't have to walk around by yourself if you don't want to. so But yes, we're super awesome.
00:45:50
Alexis
And you know look up KNLA if anybody's interested in some of the things they do or if you have a student or are you know a student of you know young or old who wants to do some internships and learn more about on the industry.
00:45:55
Jessica
Thank you.
00:46:04
Plant People
Yeah, that's, that's K-N-L-A in case anybody's not, we we are so bathed in the Kentucky Nursery and Landscape Association, which is a grower association, which is part of the Kentucky Horticulture Council's network of groups they work with.
00:46:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:46:21
Alexis
Awesome. Any final thing you want to say, Jacob, before we bounce?
00:46:25
Jacob Stidham
No, it's been great. Glad you all invited me to be on and looking forward to doing it again, if you want. Come out here to UDL.
00:46:32
Plant People
Love to.
00:46:33
Alexis
Yeah.
00:46:33
Jacob Stidham
Maybe I can twist your arm since we're being recorded right now. We can do it
00:46:37
Alexis
Oh no, twist my arm.
00:46:38
Jessica
Yeah.
00:46:40
Jacob Stidham
it. We can record a podcast sometime here at UDL.
00:46:44
Alexis
Awesome. Well, putting it in my calendar, that would be like the thrill of my entire spring. So awesome. Well, we thank you for being here with us today. We hope you guys are listening, gain something new, have already scheduled your trip to Udall. Looking forward to it. Maybe maybe you're just going to become a nurseryman and that's awesome too. But we're glad you were here with us and we hope that you will come back and join us again.
00:47:07
Alexis
Have great one.