Transcript
brett: Welcome, welcome, plant people. We are down one Alexis. She's out in Utah seeing Cutflower Farms and attending a conference.
Plant People: You mean she she doesn't read that intro every single time, Brett? You're letting secrets out.
Sarah Geurkink: Okay.
Plant People: Man.
brett: we we had to We had to zoom her in remotely for the intro, but other than that, she won't be here for the rest of the episode.
Plant People: She had to just speak the intro. She had to speak this episode into existence.
Jessica : I have to make a phone call.
brett: um And this will air after she's back, so don't don't like break into her house or anything.
Plant People: Well, what? She is on an an adventure. yeah
brett: She's already back, okay?
Plant People: No. Yeah.
brett: um
Plant People: Don't do that. Yeah, she's she's here. She's here. So...
brett: But it's...
Jessica : I already, so I scolded her for not letting everyone know that she was gone.
brett: a
Jessica : And then she says she realized that she forgot to tell everybody that she was gone, but it made sense. Cause I got text messages from her at a weird hour that I normally don't get text messages from her versus, you know, don't know.
Jessica : was like, Oh, you're in a different time zone. That's why.
Plant People: Well, I saw her husband, Tyler, I saw his feed.
brett: She's just trying to cultivate the feeling of being missed.
Plant People: He was posting like fish, like gear. And I'm like, he's somewhere. So that means Alexis pray somewhere. And then I got onto Alexis. I'm like, thanks for letting us know, Alexis.
brett: Yeah.
Jessica : Oh, so you scolded her as well.
Plant People: Yes. So she's getting it coming and going.
brett: Well, lucky, lucky for us, we've upgraded because we have the smart, the talented, the amazing Sarah Gerking from the Organic Association of Kentucky with us today.
Plant People: That's what you get.
brett: Sarah, how are you?
Sarah Geurkink: Hi guys. Good. Such fun group. i'm glad to be here.
brett: Yeah, thanks for joining us.
Plant People: yeah
brett: well So i have little question for you, and you know, if it's coming from me, it's probably going to be trees. ah What...
Plant People: i sent those it's trees
brett: What is your favorite spring blooming tree? The experience of seeing that, maybe smelling it, maybe otherwise.
brett: And if you pick something really basic and you know that's a good standard conservative choice, maybe pick a secondary one if you if you have another one that you want to throw out. Like if you say dogwood,
Plant People: I'm going to pick two basic.
Jessica : guess it depends on what you're saying.
Plant People: Brett, don't take my plant, man.
Jessica : i
Plant People: Don't take me to look at you.
brett: Okay. All right. was Go ahead.
Plant People: Who's going first here?
Jessica : Yeah. You go first, Brett. so I want to hear what you're saying.
brett: No, no, i don't want to go first.
Plant People: Oh, Brett.
brett: I got a lot in the chamber.
Plant People: Oh, man.
brett: I got a lot to i got a lot to give.
Plant People: I know Brett's got something good.
brett: Why don't start with our with our guest, Sarah?
Plant People: what Yeah, so Sarah.
Sarah Geurkink: I really like ah spotting pawpaw flowers in the forest.
Plant People: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jessica : one.
brett: Oh, the fly pollinator is coming in and sniffing it.
Plant People: Yeah, it's good stuff.
brett: I saw Kirk Pomper from KSU posting pictures of the pawpaws in his backyard and out at the orchard and the flies.
Plant People: Pop balls. That's a good one.
brett: He was excited. Lord of the flies, the pawpaw tree.
Plant People: So survivor. Yeah, that's a good one. I don't think about the blooms when I think about those, but they are really cool. Yeah. ah Grew up with those.
Sarah Geurkink: They're freaky. They're like little demogorgons.
Plant People: It's very strange. If you look at those guys closer, kind of inconspicuous, but once you see them, you see them. So yeah. It's kind of wild. Very nice. Very nice.
brett: Jessica?
Jessica : Okay, now I feel like i can't just say these basic things because you already said one of the basic.
brett: No, I mean, You can. you can i just wanted to expand the audience's knowledge.
Jessica : ah Oh, well...
brett: I mean, Sarah sarah had a perfect answer, so just that's that's the standard.
Jessica : Okay. Well, she made me think she made me think of one that I'm really excited about.
Plant People: I know that was a good one.
Jessica : It has not bloomed yet, but it's it's right there in my yard.
brett: Uh-oh.
Jessica : It is a Carolina allspice that I have.
brett: Ooh.
Jessica : um and I'm very excited about it because there's lots of buds on one that I planted two years ago. um but I was going to say ah that the dogwoods were really popping this year or the red buds and
Plant People: and Oh, yeah, the Dougwoods were nice.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank you.
Jessica : Another ah brainwash my oldest child to while we were driving to school, he'd be like, dogwood, dogwood, dogwood, which it didn't annoy me or or aggravate me at all.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : I'd be like, oh, yeah. Oh, you missed one. But some people might be get frustrated with him yelling out every single dogwood.
brett: bark Barked for dogwood.
Jessica : He's all blooming. Right. Yeah.
brett: Yeah, our we have ah a white one in our backyard and a pink one in our backyard. And it seems like they... they They don't necessarily alternate having really good flowering years, but it seems like when one is really good, the other one is not as good.
brett: And this year was the white. It's just like so it was like a white Cadillac, just like bright, almost luminescent.
Jessica : Oh yeah.
brett: ah so Those are good answers.
Plant People: glowing
brett: Those are good answers.
Jessica : yeah
brett: Ray?
Plant People: was trying to think well we already talked about dogwood and redbud that's the classic combo as i'm driving up down the mountain parkway it's so pretty this time of year uh classic combo so i'm kind of like jessica's child uh i'd say the same thing dogwood dogwood dogwood and all of its many many variations from the natives to the, you know, the cultivated varieties. But I've got to say around May, I start to look for the magnolia blooms in Red River Gorge. Some of those, what is it?
Plant People: Is it the big leaf magnolia that has like the blooms like 12, 14 inches across? You know, there's cucumber and big leaf and a star, I think, magnolia.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: But I think it's the big leaf that have these massive, you know, I'm going to pick something gaudy, Brett. Really gaudy. May and June.
brett: I love that.
Plant People: So, yeah. It's gotta be the Magnolia and the Gorge and I go and look for those specifically, you know, along the edges of the roadways and stuff. The blooms seem to be a little bit bigger, but yeah, i love that one.
Plant People: That one's just a big shoy bloom.
brett: Our friend, uh, Our friend Neil Wilson has a really nice, young, ah big big leaf magnolia in his front yard, actually. that
Plant People: it bloomed yet? I mean, i mean yeah has it bloomed at all, I guess, and and is it older than it's been?
brett: I can't remember. No, yeah, i it's not that young.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: it's not It's not that young. It's just not not that old, you know, like me.
Plant People: Yeah. yeah
brett: Not that young, but not that old.
Plant People: Yeah, ah that's my that's a good one.
brett: i think I think for me, ah I'm going to go with ah an unsung hero of the spring performance, which is...
Plant People: Okay.
brett: I'll go with the whole pine genus, but a special shout out to the Eastern white pine. um
Plant People: okay
brett: this is the period where the, the buds begin to extend and turn into candles. And it looks like this tree is holding a bunch of little candles on the tips of its branches and then overall, but right now it's, um, it's getting very phallic in the, in the Pinus community.
brett: Uh, the buds are popping.
Plant People: but
brett: Uh, yeah, it's a very, it's a very intense, uh,
Jessica : This is not where I expected this to go, honestly.
brett: experience. You know, this is a science podcast.
Plant People: I knew it would be a pine of some sort.
brett: I think we can, you know, I didn't, I didn't say anything uncouth. I just, so I'm just saying what I feel.
Plant People: He's...
Jessica : Ray did it make me have some mom guilt because I should have said Magnolia, considering my daughter's name is Magnolia.
Plant People: Well, I wasn't going to say I knew that you were going to take Magnolia, but I was like, no, Jessica's thinking of like the Bay Magnolia.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: That's a landscape. She's not going to say that, but no.
brett: I mean, Magnolia does play as a better name than the for a little girl than Dogwood, probably, but you never know.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : Right.
Plant People: Little red bud. I mean, those are kind of, proud that those could work too.
brett: You never know.
Plant People: Or a little cornice moss. I mean, if you want to get technical about it, she can be like little cornice. Yeah. Been stranger things, but oh everything. It seemed to be, it's ah been a good bloom year so far. It seems like I've just noticed, I don't know, just some years when the weather and the temps are just right and we don't have super cold weather.
Plant People: you know, snaps that that kill blooms, but it's been a pretty good bloom bloom year so far. And there's just fields of like a purple dead nettle as I drive up and down 460 towards my office in Bourbon County.
brett: Yeah, it has been a little hot.
Plant People: And people are stopping and taking picture and I'm not gonna, you know, poo-poo on anybody's parade and say, that's a weed. Don't take pictures of that. but There's these beautiful fields of just, um, on farms up and down a couple, uh, that are just purple dead nettle and it's, they're defined borders and they look like you've just sowed this stuff.
Plant People: Uh, and, and it is a weed, but it is beautiful. This year has been one of the best purple dead nettle years.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Plant People: If there is such a thing that I've ever seen, just gorgeous. It reminds me every time I drive by these fields of like I'm in Holland or something. It was just really cool. So some good blooms this year.
brett: Yeah. Ours are starting to start, the leaves are starting to yellow and they're starting to kind of retreat, retreat for, from their spring ephemeral kind of vibe.
Plant People: o
brett: And we never really touch, touch those as far as weeding or anything, just cause they don't really, they're not very aggressive.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: They're not very anything.
Plant People: No.
brett: They're just kind of there a little bit, a little bit of pollen. little I mean, a little bit of nectar, you know, why not?
Jessica : The bees bees will bring in some, yeah, it's like red, reddish orange pollen ah you'll see on the bees and that's what they're getting it from.
Plant People: Bees enjoy them.
Plant People: you
Jessica : this So it's beneficial to leave it. It's going to die anyways when it gets hot.
Plant People: It goes away when the things that we're trying to grow, we want to grow them. It's already gone. So at that point, it you don't need to treat for those for the most part unless it's a special situation.
Plant People: They go they go away when we start to plant things typically.
brett: Yeah, but to return to the pines, just briefly ah in the uncouth uncouth description of those.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
brett: um Right now, there's a lot of them have pollen cones on them. And so like if you can like vibrate it and then there's just this big, yeah, poof of yellow pollen.
Plant People: Oh, just is it poof of you? was going to say, I've seen the memes like on social media where somebody like cuts a pond during this time of year. And here's this just death cloud of ah allergens, just a yellow, just going, just to a mass cloud, like a mushroom cloud of pollen.
brett: Mm-hmm.
brett: Yeah, i put on my like bumblebee suit and I like run through it and then go and like find a giant flower to fall asleep in.
Plant People: That's what I think about. Yeah.
brett: it's like That's sort of my normal springtime activity.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: but That's right.
Plant People: You go jump on the the hood of every black vehicle you can find. just You just kind of jump on the hood. Yeah. Deposit your pollen.
brett: That's right.
Plant People: how you roll, Brad. i believe Totally believable. Totally believable.
brett: Yeah, I don't know of many bees that take Flonase, but you know I'm maybe the first in this case. So I think for today, we're not there's not going to be some magical segue that we were talking about weeds and which ones to worry about and which ones to not and and that kind of thing.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank you.
Plant People: What we talked about, dead nettle, purple dead nettle.
brett: but but Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: So there you go. There's zigzag.
brett: We talked about that. So I guess that is a segue in, but we wanted to, I just wanted to kind of have a little bit more of a freeform episode today and talk about some little tips or fun, you know, things that make life a little easier for producers or businesses, or, you know, you're trying to maybe ah do something a little different or try something out ah that we've seen in the course of, you know, we have a mix of farming experience and technical assistance experience on this, on this chat here.
Plant People: we'll We'll make it yeah while we get a hard one.
brett: And I thought, um Sarah, maybe building off the dead nettle, maybe we'll start with the the the sage advice you said you received previously about weeds and and time to seed and all that kind of stuff. Can you set that one up?
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah, sure. It was, ah in the fall, um, where things were apocalyptic.
Plant People: Thank
Sarah Geurkink: I was growing, uh, mixed, mixed produce on about six acres at the time. And I was talking to a a wise advisor and I said, I don't know, know, it was going to rain or something. I had a limited amount of time to deal with weeds.
Sarah Geurkink: And he said, you should just, uh, what we see what primarily what weeds are where and kind of know your enemy. So know how many days until a the weeds are going to go to seed and know sort of what the weed seed bank in each field looks like. if It's already terrible or if you have a pretty good, pretty good control in a field. I kind of prioritize based on facts about your field and facts about your enemy, the weeds.
Sarah Geurkink: I thought that was helpful.
brett: Yeah, I think it's...
Plant People: And six acres. Yeah, that's, that's a quite an area. If you're thinking about weeds, goodness. I mean,
brett: It's an example of like working smarter and not harder. I think that sometimes we think of wheat, it's like there are crop plants and there are weed plants. And this a, this is the only two categories, but even within the, the weed community, there's some that are more, ah more problematic than others for a variety of reasons. And yet when you have a, a weed that is growing, yes, it's taking some you know stuff away from your plants. Maybe it could harbor disease or whatever, but for that moment, it is one weed.
brett: as soon as it goes to seed and set seed and drops that seed, it's now thousands to maybe millions of weeds, depending on what it is.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: Big weed.
Sarah Geurkink: and knowing how many how many seeds it will produce is another thing he said.
brett: Yeah.
brett: okay
Plant People: That will depress you very quickly.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah.
Plant People: that that that will I'm sorry.
Sarah Geurkink: yeah
Plant People: That will motivate you to action very quickly. Yes.
Jessica : That's like,
Plant People: Foxtel or yeah any of those.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: I mean, goodness.
brett: iweed
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : We get the poison hemlock calls all the time at the office and it's like one flower can produce.
brett: yeah
Plant People: Yeah. This time of year. Yeah. this time of year
Jessica : And I'm probably not saying this the right way. I have the right number, but like 36,000, I want to say like seeds. It's something in the like 30,000s seeds, like one flower head can produce.
brett: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Jessica : So it's we're like, you know, know your weed, know it what it looks like when it's young and know like, okay, you know, this is going to flower. It's going to big time trouble later on down the road.
Plant People: Well, for new producers, this is such a, i that's such a good one, Sarah, ah because, you know, I've worked with new producers and you don't appreciate, you know, like the seed bank that's in the soil when you first start working the soil. And all of a sudden you till to four to six inches and you're like, oh my gosh, where did all this crabgrass come from? And then you realize that, you know, there's seeds in that soil that's going to be there 10 to 15 years from now. That's probably a pretty good viability.
Plant People: ah but such an important concept, the seed bank, and especially on the organic end of things, depending on your production system, how you deal with things, but yeah, not letting any more seeds into the seed bank than you absolutely have to.
Plant People: That's a, that's a great one.
brett: Can you, right Ray, can you talk about the the weed seed bank concept?
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: Because this is was something i had not come across until it's, it's important in any agricultural production system, but it's particularly when ones where you're not trying not to use herbicide and you're trying to kind of manage land land for a long time.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: Can you talk about what that is? Just, I mean, I think it's kind of clear, but maybe not.
Plant People: no
Plant People: Well, you just take, ah let's say, a typical Kentucky field that may have some kind of fescue sod on it. You look, you see fescue, and you decide to break ground and and plant a crop. So you break the sod in most typical systems. Let's say you're homeowner. You have a garden tiller that are tilled down to about six inches deep.
Plant People: When you go digging in the soil, ah you know you may not have had, let's pick on crabgrass. You may not have had crabgrass. It looks like it was just fescue sod for years.
Plant People: You till in the soil four to six inches deep, and all of a sudden you have all this crabgrass, you're thinking, where did this come from? What in the world happened? Well, anytime you disturb the soil and you bring seeds close enough to get the warmth of the sun or actual sunlight, ah you're you know you don't know the history, the complete history of that soil 10, 15 years back in most cases. So you're going to expose the seed bank. And the more you disturb the soil, the more you tend to create conditions where seeds that have lain in the soil for many years in some cases are going to germinate.
Plant People: Now, there's all sorts of ways of dealing with that. If, like Sarah said, you don't do a good job, you know, taking care of the weeds and not letting them mature and produce seed after seed after seed that goes back in the soil. There's lots of ways of dealing with that and all of them take effort, time and financial resources. So I find it's a lot better on the front end.
Plant People: Not, first of all, not letting any more weeds go to seed than you have to. But the, I guess the moral of the story is the the seed bank is always there in soil.
Plant People: You may think it's not even, you know, in let's say corn ground that's been continuously cropped for years. If you stop, you know, that production system, all of a sudden there's going to be weeds emerge from there that haven't been there in 15 years, yet no new seeds been introduced.
Jessica : Thank
Plant People: So that's the seed bank in a nutshell. And the more you till, the more you tend to expose those.
brett: Yeah.
Plant People: So, you know, these are concepts we have to deal with in production systems.
brett: yeah
Sarah Geurkink: I'm going go ahead and put in a plug for Manage Weeds on Your Farm, ah guide to ecological strategies, which is a SARE publication um that has, it shares, you know, each weed species and then how many days to maturity and then how many seeds each produce like each plant would produce and different methods of dealing with them.
Plant People: Wonderful.
Plant People: and one
Plant People: And that is a SARE. That's S-A-R-E. It's sustainable ag.
brett: S-A-R, yep.
Plant People: And what, what does that stand for?
brett: Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education.
Plant People: You yes, there you go.
brett: That's a USDA program.
Plant People: And
brett: It's a sustainable ag program that is the longest standing federally funded program of its type through the, the again, through the USDA. um I am happy to get to work with them quite a lot.
Jessica : Thank
brett: So i appreciate the the shout out there.
Plant People: They have a lot of wonderful publications, don't they, Brett, you and Sarah?
brett: They do.
Plant People: and It seems like I've pulled on their publications and they've got a lot of great stuff. I'm always amazed at some of the publications that they've sponsored ah throughout the years.
brett: the one of One of the things that's coming through to me in the in this discussion too is just like, varying expert ah you know, experience and and enthusiasm. But I think one of the things is thinking about weeds and understanding them as a plant and how they function and when to intervene and how to intervene. And even like, so one of the big Sarah things is cover crops and,
brett: if you have something like ah a rye grass or a wheat or something like that, and that you're growing as a cover crop, you're also paying attention to when it goes to seed, um to terminate it on time, to not let it go to seed, to not have a cover crop that you put out become a weed in your field by accident.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
brett: um Buckwheat is one of those that it can become kind of a problem if it gets up, cause it flowers so fast.
Jessica : yeah
brett: um But it just in the same way with the, with the, the, not just treating it as sort of like ah it's it's a living plant with its own biological imperatives and ah to to just treat it as sort of this garbage to get rid get rid of is, you know, it's kind of counter, but even like the stuff like the the purple dead nettle I mentioned earlier, like,
brett: I'm not worried about that compared to something like Johnson grass or amaranth or big weed or, you know, something a little more aggressive. Um, so that's a really, that's a really good one to start on.
brett: Um, anybody else have a, have a tip or, or trick or thing, no matter how big or small.
Jessica : Kind of ties in ah just something that I realized the other day, like just a couple days ago at home with this weed, weeding wise, just putting the time in and this is more flower beds or it could be, you could be even in your garden, just taking the time in to do like the mulch.
Jessica : Or like putting down the weed barrier, like maybe in between rows that you can pull up each year in your backyard garden. But just taking that time front, even though it's like, man, this is a lot of labor, but it'll pay off in the end. Because I was just thinking about my own flower beds that one of them was just solid, like weeds and grass like three years ago.
Jessica : That's all it was. And I didn't till it up really. I've pulled weeds out. I've planted flowers and I'm building you know perennials in there, but I've mulched it every year. And so this year so far, granted it has not rained for a full month.
Jessica : There are still weeds that have popped up, but it was so much easier this year going into year three to pluck those few weeds that had already started coming up Um, cause I've already taken out the big ones and then, you know, just to keep adding that mulch and organic matter, even though it seems like a big task at the beginning of the year to do that.
Jessica : And a lot of work it all, like I'm seeing how it's paying off. Right. So with some of those, you know, tasks of getting that weed, weed management under control, even if it does seem like a lot of work and take a lot of time up front, it will eventually pay off in the end if you keep, keep at it.
Plant People: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.
brett: You'd also shared one about after after transplanting stuff into ah black plastic.
Jessica : Oh yeah. Yeah. So like a tip and trick that ah learned over the years, if you're planting in black plastic or the black plastic raised beds for more commercial growers, or even if you modify it for your own backyard, and sometimes it gets, well, it does, it gets really hot.
Jessica : And under that black plastic, it kind of causes what we i would say when I worked at the research farm, a volcano effect, and this heat would rise up out from under of the plastic And could burn your transplants really easily.
Jessica : So the easy solution would be is to go along and put soil and fill that hole up around that plant. So then you don't have that heat coming out. And, you know, over the years we had used soil just from next to the plastic, right?
Jessica : Like it it's already tilled up, just use that soil.
brett: Native soldiers, just yeah.
Jessica : native soil. But this also ties to what we've been talking to. What are we moving in that, into that area? We're moving weed seed in there. um So if you hadn't done a pre-emergent or something, maybe between your rows, um you're just bringing weed seed in right around those plants and having more competition.
brett: Oh.
Jessica : So it's at best to just invest the money in a bag of potting soil, soilless media, right? get it wet and then go down the row and fill in those holes with that soilless media. And you're not going to have near as weed pressure right up against those plants. So then you really do have a nice barrier of weed pressure, um nice barrier from the plant all you know out to the side of it with weed protection that way. So your plant doesn't get fried. And then you also don't have to worry about coming along and weeding around um those planting holes right there.
brett: Mm.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: Double whammy.
Plant People: Then nothing's more frustrating. Yeah. Then a bunch of weeds coming right up in that hole. Speaking of seed bank.
Jessica : and then And then when you try to pull him out sometimes, you accidentally pull the entire plant that you want, right?
brett: Yeah, I just... a
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: The plant and comes with it. Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah, so...
Plant People: Yeah. It's like, yeah.
brett: I just imagine these poor, you know, these little transplants and they've been in a greenhouse and it's just been nice and they've been taken care of.
Plant People: The weeds.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
brett: And then you take them out and you throw them out in the elements first off, and then you're putting them right on top of a steam vent under a solar, you know, pressure and a heat generator.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank you.
brett: and just think, man, what what are they thinking?
Jessica : a fry.
brett: You know, how are they feeling about that?
Plant People: And the plastic gets hot. Yeah. I mean, ah the cabbage lay lays up against that plastic and I mean, yeah, it's a, the temperature is a big issue.
brett: yeah, it's like you could almost touch it with your hand. It's so hot. And um yeah, I remember trying to trying to shoot for ah days where it was going to be cooler and more overcast for a few days.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: And of course, you don't want it to be too overcast that it rains and you can't get in the field.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: And it's just this balancing act. We had to put out some watermelons one time and it was so hot, but it was the only day we could do it. And we did transplants at that point. And
Plant People: Oh, wow.
brett: it was I was sure that we had just killed an entire field of watermelon transplants, but we did scoop in some ah weed seed bank. We did not use ah planting or a potting soil, but they survived somehow.
Plant People: It's going to pinch the... one
brett: Granted, they were stressed and they probably were set back several weeks, but they at least survived.
Jessica : I'm
Plant People: It's always nerve-wracking to see those plants just melted.
brett: It was, it was like, it was one of those things you're doing it.
Plant People: Just watch them melt.
Jessica : gonna swap over.
brett: You're like, why am I even doing this?
Plant People: It's scary.
brett: Like, this is just gonna, but I had to do it.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: and And that's the way she goes. Well, Ray, you got any, you got any hot tips for us?
Plant People: Oh yeah.
Plant People: I don't know about hot tips. Um, you know i was thinking back yeah and one of the things I've always loved, um, you know, doing field work, uh, is working with producers that are kind of leveling up their production. They may be going from a large home garden, to more of a market garden, a small scale. I just love working with those folks, but I worked with a lot of folks when I was in Floyd County in the far Eastern part of the state.
Plant People: And one thing that we were, I ran into a lot with folks is they were used to using homeowner versions of, you know, if they had to use chemical products or, you know, supplies, they were used to, you know, using homeowner
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: Level supplies, but then they quickly found out that they had to drive in our case when I was working with those producers, if they had to get a two gallon concentrate of something or they had to get, you know, lay flat irrigation or something like that. It was a two hour drive to get any of that stuff.
brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And that that time and the expense of doing that, working with producers, that that always kind of caught them by surprise. Once they leveled up, they got bigger. They realized quickly that they had to to have access to commercial sources of horticultural supplies. And that is something that I said right up front. I said, you're going to get to this level, you know, and we're going to have to, you know, to drive, you know, someplace because there wasn't a lot of shipping. at that time. And it was very expensive if you did have stuff shipped, but I told them to a lot for time to go pick up supplies. And we made supply list. We were very deliberate because fuel wasn't cheap even back then. And it did take time, but to kind of be deliberate, and we had to make lists to make sure to make every trip count because that was a four hour round trip, two hours to get supplies, two hours back. And now that's not the case. We have much more convenient, you know, supply sources much closer where I'm at now in the central part of the state. But when I was in a part of the state that those suppliers were not close, that was a big consideration. And it was something that we talked a lot about with producers that were leveling up their game and production.
Plant People: um And it was kind of a big deal and and something I hadn't thought about until we started talking and and having this conversation today. But it was it was a big deal. yeah You had to a lot for that.
brett: I think the scaling scaling and access to some of those commercial products, even in small volumes, is one of the It's one of the bigger grump production growing pains that people come across because they sort of go from getting their stuff at Lowe's or Home Depot or whatever, and they're kind of putting stuff together and that stuff's made for like your garden beds at home and that's totally fine.
Plant People: Can be.
Plant People: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
brett: um But there are very specific horticultural products that work a lot better, the drip system in particular, like yeah they don't sell Toro tape or whatever brand of tape, drip tape at those places.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: and
Plant People: Yeah,
brett: especially like figuring out how to set it up. And, and um we've recently, a couple of folks at UK have been been doing a little bit more hands-on demos of, ah of those, that type of setting up that type of irrigation, because it's not overly complicated, but it is kind of overwhelming at first.
Plant People: that's awesome.
brett: Actually, Jessica, do you remember many years ago?
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: i think at least maybe two children ago, if not three, we, we made,
Jessica : Three, pre-COVID.
brett: we we made
Plant People: Three kids ago.
brett: Oh, gosh. Yeah, I watched that video not that long ago. Jessica and Jay Tucker from the UK South Farm and i put together, we have a video on irrigation parts and like, but you know, components of an irrigation system that we put together. i went back and watched that and I was not on camera for it, but we were so young.
brett: um You still look young and juvenescent as always, but ah but man, that it's been a few years.
Jessica : Oh, thank you.
brett: um But I think um another you know tip with that would be if you are in those far-flung locations, if you can figure out somebody that you can stand to be in a car with for two hours and split the trip, ah go and get your stuff together, that can be another little ah mechanism for for figuring that out. But I do agree with you, Ray, the scaling up to those specialty products.
brett: And it's that way in other industries too, where you sort of have a homeowner version and ah or a you know consumer version, and then you have your professional versions.
Plant People: yeah
brett: And um yeah, it's kind of overwhelming.
Plant People: well and i'll ask you guys this i'll ask you guys this because i'm always curious and i'm always wanting to know more sources but isn't there co-ops or different organizations where they kind of split bundles of things isn't that still going on for small producers i want to say i don't work a lot with co-ops now um But do they do some that, Jessica, at co-ops where you like boxes or you know box supplies, things like that?
Plant People: Do any do, Brett, you guys, Sarah, do you know of anybody that does sort of to ease the pain of producers that don't want 10,000 boxes?
brett: At some points in the past, like um in the, so the organization in our state, Grow Appalachia, was doing stuff for their sites and part of their original funding structure from the ah Paul Mitchell Studio a Persons Foundation, it required them to use organic practices.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
brett: And so sourcing organic fertilizer, especially at that time, was really challenging. And so you'd basically have to order it from a pallet from Virginia or somewhere else. And if you did that for each site, that would be a you know a total pain or accessing compost and that kind of thing.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: they they They have done some collaborative purchasing in the past that I'm aware of, but um I don't know, you all have other examples of that?
Plant People: Good.
Plant People: We get lots of questions on
Jessica : I know, oh, go ahead.
Sarah Geurkink: I know that, oh, no, it's okay. I know Nolts, there are a couple of Nolts in several locations, but they do ah a sale to give folks a discount for ordering before December, maybe.
Sarah Geurkink: So um i was part of a group of growers that would try to put it two orders together. One that is like, when we have our stuff handled before December, get that discount.
Sarah Geurkink: And then one that was the oh no, I forgot this thing afterwards. And I, when I farmed, there was a guy named Andy who used to buy potatoes um from Wisconsin.
Sarah Geurkink: And he, it was, it was in Wisconsin, but I'm pretty sure it was called Vermont potatoes. And he would drive, organic potatoes. He would drive from Michigan where I was farming at the time to Wisconsin, pick up a load of potatoes for like 20 different farms and then bring it back.
Jessica : Thank you.
Sarah Geurkink: So I'm a big fan of group purchases. Um, i used to say, Hey, I'm going to so such and such place, anything that can fit in my car, feel free to order.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Oh, man, that is dangerous, Sarah. We we used to do that the Eastern part, too. But whoever and it ended up, it used to be a car. Then it turned into a truck. Then it turned into a big box trailer for group orders.
Plant People: Just and really, really informal. But different people would be like, oh, you're going to Lexington. Get me this. or You're going to Liberty, Kentucky. Get me this and this. And then it started out there and it became a whole thing.
Plant People: And there was even discussion, I don't know if they ever did it after I left, of just like coming together as a group and buying a big box trailer to so somebody could tow it if they were gone.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah.
Plant People: But yeah, kind of a along those same lines, Sarah, of what you're talking about. It's like, oh, hey, it's like when you yell at the office, anybody want lunch? Yeah, all of a sudden, everybody needs something.
brett: Well, if you're going,
Plant People: So it's kind of cool. Yeah. Well, since you're gone, since you asked, yeah, yeah.
brett: It sounds like, uh, Sarah, Andy, the potato procure sounds like he had, he had eyes everywhere.
Plant People: Oh man.
Sarah Geurkink: You know, he he was in the plainclothes community and the only way to get ahold of them was leaving a message than having your phone on you constantly.
Plant People: Oh, Brad.
Jessica : good one.
Sarah Geurkink: And, uh, yeah, he was very, ah yeah it was great because shipping for seed potatoes was, it was, is a big savings.
Plant People: Oh yeah.
brett: yeah
Sarah Geurkink: He, he charged an amount for picking it up, but it wasn't nearly as expensive.
Plant People: That's so cool when you can see people working together like that. And a lot of times there's no contracts. There's lot of times it's just informal groups, just accomplishing things together, going in together.
Jessica : to say, I've seen a lot of farmers markets do that. Like the farmers market here in our county has done that.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : The ones that my husband is a part of, they've done like big orders like that for more of like the um tomato boxes, you know, like different packaging material that they might use or ah the clamshell kind of things.
Plant People: who
Plant People: Yeah. Packages, especially.
Jessica : If there's several of them growing berries and, um, They've done orders like that or a popular one are like bags, different they like reusable and non reusable bags, and you know, going together as a market, ordering things and splitting them up amongst themselves.
Plant People: Yes.
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
Plant People: And these are things like newer producers don't always think about, but the clamshells or the bags or the spuds that, you know, if your potato field's gotten bigger, but yeah. And just I just, I ran into that a lot over the years when working with people, you lovely.
Plant People: So, yeah.
brett: I will also say if you're if you happen to be relatively close to a produce auction, sometimes they also source boxes and source other types of materials that you can go and and buy from them.
Jessica : Yep.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: um And if you sell at the auction,
Plant People: Like you have to be a member or anybody can.
brett: ah some of them Some of them do, I think, but most of them, you know, I think it's, you kind of want to give them a little bit of a heads up if you need a lot, because they can just add it to their order, kind of the longer form version of, or the more complex version of if you're going already, go ahead and pick me up some, but.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: they're They're really interested in you know promoting quality and having standardized product pack packaging and that kind of stuff. But um some of the produce boxes and stuff like that, you can get from those. um On this front of sourcing stuff, which I do think is a huge, Sarah's done a whole bunch of stuff about this. Sarah, you have a comment?
Sarah Geurkink: Oh, I just want to say time sensitive thing, but there is a place near Henry County that has yellow crates that are stackable. and You know, we can turn it in for $4 each, which is like so much cheaper than they usually are on Facebook marketplace.
Plant People: o
Sarah Geurkink: I sent it to lots of farmers in an email, but ah I really think, i I really think if I had seen that when I was a farmer, i would freak out and buy them all in a
brett: Short time deal. Short time deal.
Plant People: Flash deal.
Plant People: You would have snapped that up. Stuff like that's so handy.
Sarah Geurkink: Apparently there are like 800 of them left, so go get it.
Plant People: Oh, wow.
brett: use Use promo code GERKINK to get a smile when you arrive.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah.
Plant People: That's for you. Yeah.
Sarah Geurkink: I've heard they're sturdy but a little dusty.
brett: Yeah.
brett: Yeah. That's what the bin bin washers for.
Plant People: Doesn't sound like anything.
brett: Either that be a two-legged creature with thumbs or a machine.
Plant People: Yep.
brett: Um, Sarah, another thing on the, like on the sourcing side that we we had have talked about before, um is the people element of working with vendors, um, seed vendors or other, uh, is this ringing a bell for you?
Plant People: Clean them up.
Plant People: Amen.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah. Yeah.
brett: Could you give us a, give us a tip?
Sarah Geurkink: I'm a big proponent. I'm a big proponent of getting to know your seed rep, become besties with your sales rep for all kinds of things. um So I, this is an but advice that a farmer gave me many years ago and i had, it you know, I had a pretty close relationship with the seed company sales reps, I actually ordered my seeds over the phone and not online because sometimes you'll be like, oh, I want the 10,000 seed packet of this thing, but you only have the 5,000 one, which is more expensive. And then they'll be like, we'll just give you two 5,000s for the same price.
brett: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Geurkink: as the 10,000, you know, if you order it by phone or you, you could be like, this is out of stock. She'll be, you know, she'll be like, well, let me check if it's really out of stock or yeah, but this, this other variety might be better for you.
Plant People: Yeah.
Sarah Geurkink: So it's always, it saved me a lot of money and time, even though I know kids these days are afraid of calling people, but I'm really into calling sales reps.
Sarah Geurkink: And I,
Plant People: There's something comforting about that. Yeah.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah, it's like a real human you're dealing with. And I really um got a lot out of my irrigation ah supplier. His name was Al and he was so helpful. And he gave me a lot of advice actually. I've since moving to Kentucky pinged him a couple of times with questions about irrigation. um
Plant People: Those suppliers can be absolute gold. And there was a couple of examples of that where people were new to irrigation, but They even invited people and they were Kentucky suppliers, invited people to come to their place. They would show them how to put it all together, take time. But yeah, it was that human relationship, getting to know a supplier, talk them on the phone. And then my producer was like, well I've never done this before. I have no idea. And they're like, come on up. We'll show you. It only takes 30 minutes to show you how to put together this acre of irrigation. And they did.
Plant People: I mean, that's amazing. Just, the you know, suppliers being helpful, just developing that relationship. Yeah, it's so cool.
brett: Well, something you mentioned, so yeah, go ahead.
Jessica : I'm glad to be. Oh, I was just going to say, i I agree. As you were sharing that, I started thinking in my own mind about with work and personal of times like ordering Apple, grafting, rootstock and how they help me select certain ones by calling rather than ordering online whatever.
Jessica : ordering more sweet corn personally with a variety that we really wanted but was out of stock and then they were able to still be like hey but we can find this one that's almost exactly like it like the maturity date is just a couple day you know there's really no difference between this and so you can get a lot of valuable information like you said that you might miss just by looking online you know
Plant People: Mm-hmm. Right.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank
brett: Yeah, I think, you know, another thing you mentioned, Sarah, too, is like so a lot of these people, they're they're 21st century people. So they do phone calls, but some of them will also text you and or email you and to be able to shoot them a quick text and ask them a question.
brett: You know, obviously you't you're not going to do your whole seed order via text, probably, but to to just say, hey, any word on such and such or like, is this a thing? Like I'm having some germination issues. Is this a thing with this? You know, whatever, like those types of interactions and relationships can be really, really powerful. And I will say we had an event last year and you were even in your technical assistance capacity, practicing what you preach really like the number of vendors who were there that were really personable that you were chatting up and had their numbers and we're calling them and stuff. was really cool and really like a affirmation that what's you're what you're saying is spot on because those people were there. They took time. Their companies took time and money to have these people come and show, in that case, some weed control equipment and stuff like that. But there were some seed reps there who were really friendly.
brett: Um, and yeah, I mean, you're not, you may not be a huge customer, but they understand that you also know people and have relationships. And I'd say, if you have a good experience with someone to feel free to share that with other people and let them know, like this person will actually call you back or text you back or whatever.
brett: Um, I think that's, yeah, that's a really good tip.
Sarah Geurkink: Shout out to Dana Hilfinger at Johnny's Select Seeds.
brett: Dana, you say Dana or Donna?
Sarah Geurkink: Dana.
brett: Dana, shout out Dana, friend of the pod.
Plant People: There's a person behind the organization, a name.
brett: whether she wants it or not.
Plant People: Love it. and And it's to be so intimidating for these new producers to, any which way, there's all this stuff they're learning.
brett: ah
Plant People: And it seems like those relationships are super important.
brett: Well, I have a tip and i just shared this with a group in our marketing for all six week training recently.
Plant People: Good point.
brett: And since you nerds are talking about production and stuff, I'll i'll just share a little kind of marketing tip of sorts.
Jessica : you
brett: Um, it's not so much, uh, it's, it's more logistical, but so if you go put through, put in the time and energy to think about your building out your marketing, whether that be little flyers or little promo things or your packaging or whatever, um, if you take the time to decide on some colors that you really like that are associated with your brand and some fonts that that you associate with your brand and you are trying to create some sense of continuity across everything, take the time in one form or another to write down what those things are in some place that's easily accessible.
brett: Now with the colors, You may know this, you may not. Every color, thanks to our friends in graphic design and print professionals and everywhere else, every color in the world has a little identifier of sorts.
brett: um And there's actually three three or four, maybe more than that, different languages for how those colors are coded.
Jessica : Thank
brett: But every color has what's called a hex code. And so it'll be a pound sign followed by like six letters and numbers. And that's a unique, it's like the social security number for that color.
brett: And so then what you can do is anytime you go and build a flyer, you can go back and use that exact same color again. And you don't have to go through picking and sliding and thinking and trying to figure out what it is.
brett: Brands, Coca-Cola red has a very specific color that they always use for everything in in whatever, you know, format that they're going to use. The University of Kentucky has brand standards.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank you.
brett: There is a defined UK blue and it has, You may see RBG or CMYK as other languages and all of those can kind of be converted into each other, but take the time to do that one time. What I actually do in Canva, if you use Canva, is to go in and create a little file or a little design called your brand kit.
brett: and create a little swatch of color, a little square, make it the color that you want it to be. And then in the center of that, you can actually put text and just type what the hex code is in there. And so if you have six different colors that you're going to use in your flyers, go ahead and just save those.
brett: The other one is fonts. um Font stuff is something that people who are really into it are really into it. And other people are like, your ears are, caving in right now because you're so bored by this. But if you choose some fonts that really you feel like fit what you're going for and you're not trying to change the font every time, take the time to actually write down what those are as well. The main goal of this is that you will not dedicate any more brainpower to deciding on what those things are after you first do it. And you can go back and just immediately reference that you know that these are the fonts you use.
brett: um So standardizing, if you use the paid expensive version of Canva, you can actually create a brand kit in there that has those colors and it'll allow it to be and and fonts and stuff and logos.
Jessica : you
brett: But if you're trying to do it on the do it on the cheap, hex codes work pretty much on any different format that you that you might use digitally. And so that allows you to have the the social security numbers for your brand colors.
Sarah Geurkink: Thank you.
brett: So that's a little a little tip from the marketing side.
Plant People: I think you said fonts. I was thinking like the Coca-Cola font and like the difference between that and Dr.
brett: here
Plant People: Pepper, but they're both been the same as long as I can remember. no The color, yes, but also the the stylistic, you know, font that they use. It's ah instantly recognizable.
brett: And I'll give a shout out. there is a if you're in If you are a Canva head, which most most people who are doing this themselves are using that, I think there is a Canva font pairing guide that I still go back and regularly reference.
brett: It tells you fonts that look good together and kind of the vibe that they bring. There's like 25 or 30 different pairings that they give examples of. So if you're struggling with your design and you know you're trying to tweak some templates or whatever, that would be another another quick tip for for going and and finding that out.
Plant People: It's easier for me to think about the production side of things than very, very important stuff. Like you just talked about Brett, uh, you know, and i think I've worked with a lot of folks that are sometimes can be similar. Uh, you know, I found in the larger operations,
Plant People: ah that I work with in my county that I'm currently in, there's usually somebody that does think about the social media stuff, the continuity, the logo that their farm uses.
Jessica : Thank you.
brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: If they do a good job on social media or marketing in general, it's not ah it's never an accident. There's always somebody that they're kind of assigned to think about that on those operations. And ah I don't notice it when it's there, but I notice it when that continuity is not there for these operations. And some of these will make a post and I instantly know it's them because of the way that they make the post or the logo that they constantly use or the font or the color. So yeah.
brett: Yeah. Creating a brand identity is, it can be challenging. It's not the most important thing. There's other things, you know, that are important to a business, but i find in general people,
brett: um who like growing plants, most of them loathe marketing and developing things like that.
Plant People: yeah
brett: And so anything that you can do to make, because I think most most marketing is, the the things that actually make most marketing campaigns successful are really, really boring, simple tasks.
Plant People: We like to grow things.
brett: It's kind of, it's like production in that way. Like a lot of the things you do in individually are really boring, but they add up to something much more complex and um So the more I think people think, well, they want to create this idea that you have to be like this creative genius to be good at marketing and you, it's really a lot of boring planning and ah
Plant People: You have to backfill the holes in marketing as well, Brett. You have to backfill the holes.
brett: that's right. You have to, and I would use potting soil for that. I would not use ah field soil.
Plant People: With a specific type of font. So there you go.
brett: Anybody got any other hot tips for us at the moment?
Plant People: I don't know. Things are definitely growing.
Sarah Geurkink: I had a, on my, uh, on my CSA, I always had way more. i didn't want to be too generous to my CSA members. I wanted to give them the value that they paid for maybe a little more, but not like twice as much, but we were swimming in tomatoes and peppers and stuff. So we made a peak season CSA. That was just the month of August, which might be different in Kentucky. Maybe that would be the month of July.
Sarah Geurkink: um for folks who just want the sexy vegetables in the middle of summer. um And it was just like a a little infusion of cash flow without really affecting the rest of the CSA.
brett: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Geurkink: And they were and and people were people who were CSA curious just tried it out. So peak
Plant People: So you market it as sort of a short season. You said peak season kind of CSA, like a special peak season.
Sarah Geurkink: peak season. Yep. And it was more, so the full season CSA, I don't know if this would work anymore nowadays.
Plant People: Gotcha.
Sarah Geurkink: ah The last I did it was 2022, but the full season was about $36 a week um is what we charged. We were one of the more expensive ones cause we, reasons.
Sarah Geurkink: And um the peak season we charged week. So it was for a month. But they you know people got ah definitely more than $40 a week worth of produce.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: Yeah.
Sarah Geurkink: um
Plant People: That probably really appealed to people like that canned tomatoes or did like preservation.
Sarah Geurkink: So yeah.
brett: That's a good shout.
Plant People: i bet you it really appealed to them because I think about those folks and, or whatever need they might have for larger quantities.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah.
Plant People: So they're like, heck yes, give me a box of tomatoes or whatever the case may be.
brett: Or maybe they have a relationship to tomatoes like I have to peaches, Ray, and maybe they ate every single one of them raw or, you know, just fresh.
Plant People: And millions of tomatoes.
Plant People: Yeah.
brett: And we don't judge people like that because, you know, we all have our own.
Plant People: Lord of the Rings style, just you just chow down on, let the juice just kind of run down.
brett: hmm.
Sarah Geurkink: It always comes back to Lord of the Rings.
Plant People: It does. we We try to make it always come back to Lord of the Rings.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
brett: Cool. Well, I enjoyed this.
Plant People: I don't.
brett: I enjoyed just kind of bouncing some ideas. um If you enjoyed this type of episode, please do let us know on social media. um You can do that on Instagram. We are at Hort Culture Podcast there. You can also email us at hortculturepodcast at gmail.com.
brett: And let us know what you think. If you would not mind to rate us on these apps, whatever app you're listening on, we would really, really appreciate that. We know we have hundreds of listeners and we have only maybe 15 or 20 reviews. So we would love if you would take the time to do that. Just if you've been putting it off, now's the day. Just go over there, click five stars and you're done.
brett: um I think, thank you so so much, Sarah, for joining us and sharing some hot tips and hot tricks. And if people want to reach out to you in your professional capacity, what's the best way for them to do that?
Sarah Geurkink: Well, our website, which I definitely know, is oak-ky.org. And then if you keep going and also type slash production dash consultation, you will get more information about OAK's organic production technical assistance program.
brett: Yeah. So if you search, so you search organic association of Kentucky or Oak, Kentucky, KY should get you there eventually. But there, so there's a form on there that they fill out in order to, to get a consult with you.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah, yeah.
brett: Okay. Or with some, someone on your team.
Sarah Geurkink: Yeah, for production assistance, it would be for me with me. So I get back to folks pretty quick. And I do work with commercial growers. um So if you're beginning grower, we have some resources online for that as well.
Sarah Geurkink: And I can also I'd be happy to refer you if you reach out um to the great folks doing that work.
brett: Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you once again for joining us. I think this is your second or third time here.
Sarah Geurkink: Second.
brett: Second. Okay. Well, we'll have Sarah back soon. i know we all love to hear from her. um And i think next time around, Alexa should be back in the state of Kentucky. And ah between now and then we will see you when we see you.
