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Return of the Kawano
59 Plays2 years ago
G'day! we bring Mike Kawano back to take a deeper look into the 2023 Draft class and also our expectations of the upcoming season!
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Transcript
Introduction and Packers Off-Season Overview
00:00:35
Speaker
G'day, everyone. Welcome to the Outback Packers Podcast, the podcast where two mates from all the way across the world have a yarn talking Packers football and green and gold. I'm Nick Gregory, as always, joined by my co-host, Iowa Joe, today with special returning guest, friend of the pod, Mike Kawano. Mike, how are you? It's always good to talk to you. Good to have you on again. Thanks for having me. No, I'm doing good. Just waiting for the regular season to get here.
00:01:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like a full swing. It's like your guys' summer is like the real dead zone of the off season. Yep. So that's where we are right now. We're in the doldrums. Yep. Yep.
00:01:18
Speaker
Mike, we're just going to have to make you a permanent host with as many times as you've been back for so far. That's your guy's decision to make. That'd be fun. I just like the record to show I did not force myself onto these two.
00:01:34
Speaker
They came back to the well, the well with the, the little hood thing is falling in on it. Some stones are falling out of the side. You know, you were messaging me every other week asking, when's the next time I'm coming on? This is Joe dropping me back in the well. No, it's great. It's always fun to have you on because I know we're going to get a good time out of it. So appreciate it. You know, it's great having you back and you know,
00:02:03
Speaker
I don't even know what we're talking about, Nick. I just showed up, like I told Kawano before recording, I just show up and let Nick handle everything else.
NFL Off-Season Dead Zone and Draft Class Review
00:02:15
Speaker
So yeah, you know, as, as Mark mentioned, we're in like the real dead spot of the season. And so I kind of wanted to take this as an opportunity to just slow, slow down a little bit and kind of go back with a fine tooth comb over this draft class. I wanted to start with a defense because I know Mike is a lot smarter about football than I definitely am. And maybe even Joe as well. That's what I said.
00:02:36
Speaker
Thanks a lot here. I was feeling good about myself and then Nick drops those kinds of bombs. Well, yeah, I'm definitely, I'm definitely keen to get Mike to kind of talk us through what he thinks about these defensive prospects. I was kind of like a little bit confused as to kind of how these guys would be implemented. So I'm definitely interested to hear what Mike thinks. But before then, you know, I just want to kind of go as we always do every single week.
00:03:05
Speaker
Just kind of get our bearings on what's going on in Packers Twitter. There was that interview with Rogers that came out yesterday. I don't want
Aaron Rodgers Interview and Packers Impact
00:03:15
Speaker
to, I don't want to, I don't want to go too depth in depth on it, but I just want to acknowledge that it happened. I just, you know, I just think it's so funny that like there's, he's still so spiteful or something that happened four years ago now. And even, even the floor was getting like potshots, like,
00:03:32
Speaker
I even paid the dollar just to read the damn thing because I was like, okay, what the hell is everybody talking about? You can tell that he tries to bend the truth to fit his narrative. I don't understand
00:03:55
Speaker
I guess he's always been this way. He's always had that chip on his shoulder. He always thinks people are wrong on him. So, but it's done. It's over. Just quit it. And I have to kind of put the fault a little bit on Schneiderman too, because Schneiderman, you know, called him up and say, Hey, I'm doing this article. Do you feel like talking? Well, that was a stupid thing to do because we all know Aaron Rodgers is going to talk.
00:04:25
Speaker
especially when it comes to taking pot shots at the Packers. So, whatever. I used to say I was a big Rodgers fan, but now that more and more is coming out and the more he talks, I'm really, I'm over it. Yeah. I mean, Simon is very good at his job. I give him credit for that. And he definitely knew that Rodgers would love to talk. But yeah, there's some of the excerpts I just found. Yeah, me too.
00:04:55
Speaker
my any thoughts on that kind of stuff before you kind of move on here none that need be said yeah yeah smart man no wonder we keep bringing you back
00:05:08
Speaker
I have to say, you guys hear weird noises in the background. My dog is having a fit right now because I've got her locked in here with me. So just mind the noises because it's pissed off. And I apologize if I forget to mute before I have to cuss mine out because they're barking at something random on the street.
00:05:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, all good. All good.
OTAs: Rookie Optimism and Team Potential
00:05:33
Speaker
Obviously, OTAs are still continuing. We're going to be kind of seeing glimpses. It's the optimistic offseason where everyone's in the best shape of their lives. Every rookie is a future role pro. Every, I mean, most Jordan Love passes are perfect.
00:05:47
Speaker
I think it's just really nice to get the first look at these guys always. And, you know, kind of just, you know, all off season leading up to the draft, we've been joking about how Green Bay has never had really athletic tight end since Jamichael Finley. And it's really interesting to see these guys out there, these big lanky dudes who can run really fast. And obviously, you know, it's just like, it's just short videos that don't really mean anything. But it's exciting, you know, it's like, it's a nice time before we get crushed with reality in week one.
00:06:16
Speaker
You know the whole like this just seeing this happen and obviously Joey's about to go up in a couple days here So yeah, you know just getting a look at these guys on the field is this really nice, you know, and I'm very happy to have them on the team Well like Mike and I were kind of talking before we recorded we were trying to come up with the perfect analogy for what?
OTAs vs. Spring Training: A Comparison
00:06:37
Speaker
these OTAs were and we were trying to, we were kind of discussing whether or not it was kind of fit like baseball, spring training or not. But it, you know, it's basically like the combine all over again. It's the underwear Olympics, you know, just to get out there, get, you know, moving around, get in shape if they need to and whatever.
00:07:03
Speaker
But, and Kawano's getting pissed off at his dogs out there. My Rottweiler is protecting us from a plastic bag.
00:07:14
Speaker
But it just, it's good to see. I mean, it's nice to hear the good things come out because we know just as well that the bad things could be coming out. I mean, but you also have to take everything that's being said with a grain of salt because like Nick just said, you know, everybody's in the best shape of their life. Everybody's in going to be an all pro and all that stuff.
00:07:40
Speaker
You know, it's nice to hear some of the things coming out of like the coach's mouth. I mean, it was kind of an interest. I was looking for the audio, but I couldn't find it just before we recorded from the floor saying about Jordan Love that, you know, he's looking good, but there's still some things he needs to clean up and that. But also when asked about Musgrave, you know, he goes,
Rookie Tight Ends and Team Camaraderie
00:08:04
Speaker
well, I really like his speed. So he's still being cagey with some of his answers. So it
00:08:09
Speaker
But this time of year, you take everything with a grain of salt, but you enjoy it while it lasts. For sure, for sure. Yeah, I know. Mafia always jokingly but seriously calls draft season, you know, the time right before the draft lying season. It's not I wouldn't call it lying season right now, but, you know, it's temperate expectation season right now. But like Joe kind of alluded to, it's just good to see the guys out there.
00:08:33
Speaker
get to see love make throws on a practice field kind of thing and stuff like we're you know and that was the thing we're kind of alluding to is it's like the reason I bring up like spring training or even if it's just catchers and pitchers report time for baseball is like
00:08:48
Speaker
don't read too much into like the oh love got intercepted I know it's gonna get overplayed because of who he's replacing but just remember Rogers threw interceptions in training camp and OTAs and the reason I liken it to baseball's pitchers and catchers and preseason too a little bit is because while no they're not playing like a live or even a simulated game right now
00:09:09
Speaker
they're trying stuff and you know it's just like when you see like scion pictures with a five era and the priest in the trade in uh spring training and you're like whoa why does he suck right now it's big because he's working on a new pitch or something like that and all and
00:09:22
Speaker
You know, we joke about it that, you know, it's the time to kind of mess around and see what you got and what you don't got kind of thing with whether it's love making certain throws or if it's what his receivers can and can't do. And obviously with the caveat about there's no shoulder pads, no, you know, it's not full contact or anything, but just seeing guys run with their helmet on and stuff like that. So it's good to
00:09:45
Speaker
at least go on air kind of thing and, you know, kind of put the stuff that he's been doing with his private coaches to, to work with the guys he's going to be playing with this season. Hmm. Well, let's also say that it's a good way for the new guys to start learning the playbook without having to be full bore on it. You know, they can, you know, let's like Lucas van Ness, you know, from everything that I've been reading on him, he's been having some pretty solid practices.
00:10:11
Speaker
but it's a lot easier to do them now without the pads, without the pressures because the, you know, the linebacker coach or the edge coach, I'm trying to think what's the edge coach's name.
00:10:26
Speaker
can say, all right, well, in an actual situation, you might try this a little bit differently. Whereas if it's game week, they have to know that this is my assignment, this is what we have to do. Whereas they can tweak a little bit more in the OTAs and say, all right, we'll try this a little bit.
00:10:45
Speaker
you know, go work in the weight room a little bit or go run a couple laps, you know, get loose and all that stuff. They're not so much worried about gameplay at the moment as they are just instilling and conditioning. But like I've been saying the last couple of weeks, I'll be up there in a couple of weeks just because, you know, hey, I got to do it.
Team Bonding and Leadership Styles
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to put it to the test. I'm going to be out there on the field yelling at him. No, I'm really not. I'd probably get arrested and I don't really want to get arrested. Just for the being on the part, not the yelling part. I'm too pretty to go to jail.
00:11:25
Speaker
But as a saying, as a saying in music, that's kind of like along the lines. If you're sounding, if you're sounding good in the practice room, you're kind of doing it wrong. And it's like a little bit the same in football. I feel it's like, like, like you guys have said, you should be using this time to take risks and see where you can get away with. Not necessarily just trying to bring in every single thing. Oh, okay. Sorry. I didn't know you were not done yet. You kind of took a minute there, but, uh,
00:11:55
Speaker
I just want to bring up that I'm really liking what I'm seeing out of the bonding of the team. The whole Memorial Day weekend trip with Jordan Love and Christian Watson and that group of guys. It was really great to see those guys bonding because really, let's face it, outside of a few instances, we really never saw that out of Aaron.
00:12:22
Speaker
And, you know, it it's nice to see these guys communicate because usually you can transfer the communication from off the field to on the field because you guys start they start learning the synchron. God, I can't even friggin talk tonight to look and talk and think alike a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. They synchronize. There you go. That's the word I was synchronize.
00:12:47
Speaker
But they looked like they were having fun and, you know, poor Simone Biles got beat to hell by Christian Watson on that race they had. Christian almost fell on his face to start it off and still beat her by a good chunk. But, you know, it's really nice to see that the camaraderie is starting to show up and they're really, really growing together so far. It makes me feel a little bit better.
00:13:14
Speaker
For everything that Roger says about not needing to hang out with his players, stuff like that, and not needing to do the extra work, all the receivers he had the best chemistry with were the guys that he was personal friends with. Jordy, Davante, James Jones, the guys that he had that next level telepathic kind of thing going on, guys that he hung out with. Besides everything about football, just getting to know each other and know how they operate under the hood,
00:13:42
Speaker
It's just, you know, it's just good for them as a team as well as on a personal level. It's just good for the team in general. Yeah, definitely. And it does help that love is like, you know, he's the oldest out of all these guys, like it's him and the guard, but you know, they're all within like four years of each other, basically kind of thing. And like, I get it from Roger's point of view, like it'd be like me hanging out with, you know, like,
00:14:04
Speaker
my sister's friends kind of thing because my sister's 10 years younger than me kind of thing and stuff and it's like we have nothing to relate to kind of thing and stuff but it's like at the same time like i know what you're getting at is like make an attempt everyone like take them out to dinner or something like that you don't gotta like you don't gotta be buddy buddy every time but like do a memorial weekend thing or something like that it doesn't have to be
00:14:24
Speaker
Every day and stuff, you know, you hear the rumors that it's like, oh, I like never hang out with him, that kind of thing. And like, like I said, part of it is the age gap. You know, he's like, he's an 80s kid and these are late 90s and early 2000s kids at this point. But it's like make the effort kind of thing. Mike, look at it this way. I'm 36, Nick's 21. Yeah, I was going to say, it's almost like doing a podcast with a 21 year old. Never do that.
00:14:53
Speaker
But I hate to step it up there, but you'd even have Drew Brees or Peyton Manning and Tom Brady at least have these camps where they'd bring all the players in and have these moments with them where they could bond and work out together. You never really saw that with Aaron.
00:15:13
Speaker
I mean, yeah, yeah, for sure you go again. We saw the videos and the pictures from Memorial Weekend of, you know, Jordan loving them. And then we turn around and see videos of Aaron Rodgers with his new woman at a Taylor Swift concert.
00:15:29
Speaker
You can't tell me he couldn't have went to a concert with his teammates in Green Bay, especially a Taylor Swift concert. I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I'm pretty sure that's young people music. Yeah, the tickets were exclusive. And he's sitting and he's dancing around, you know,
00:15:53
Speaker
having a ball. Good for him. But what makes bonding with those younger players any different than bonding with the young players in Green Bay? Absolutely. Cool. Well, I mean, bastard. I'm sorry, people who listen. I'm on one tonight. So, you know, it's going to happen.
00:16:20
Speaker
Fucking Ben Albert's lucky he's not on here tonight because I'd have ripped him in new ones too. Talk about a callback. So let's get into the intention of this episode, the content, if you will.
Defensive Draft Picks and Strategy Analysis
00:16:40
Speaker
We're recording an episode. Apparently, allegedly.
00:16:47
Speaker
This time having fun and recording it maybe the domain I thought it Sorry, I told you I am really odd one tonight, so no we're good So going over the defense here. There's a few Dry picks on defense obviously we spent a lot on the tight ends and the receivers and things like that but these guys some of them will still be projected to be starters or second or third stringers and
00:17:14
Speaker
Colby Woodin, Lucas Van Ness is probably going to be Preston Smith's replacement. Kyle Brooks, Carrington Valentine, Anthony Johnson Jr. I feel like out of those five, Valentine is probably going to have the least impact in his career, most likely. But even then, guys like Colby Woodin, you know, there's no more, no more Jaren Reed, no more Dean Lowry. They're kind of looking for more of a presence on the inside.
00:17:39
Speaker
It's funny because Colby, he's only listed at 285 and he's on the chart. He's listed as a defensive end or a defensive tackle. Just like really kind of strange or like non-typical body types of what you'd usually see. Even Kyle Brooks, you know, even looking at as purely physically, you'd almost think like they drafted three edges in this class. So I'm just really curious to see how they're going to be implemented into this system. But I mean, how do you feel about this, Mike?
00:18:09
Speaker
I think that they're all going to start off as sub package rushers, even Van Ness. I think, you know, even let's just say Roshan isn't ready to come back at the start of the season. I do think he's going to start on Pup just because, you know, he tore his ACL on.
00:18:25
Speaker
I think it was November 9th. Week 9. And then so, you know, the start of the season is like a short, you know, the short side of 10 months, basically, at that point. So that's pushing it. I know Elton got hurt in the kind of the same window and I know Tunyon was hurt even before that and came back. But look what Tunyon was when he came back. He couldn't run. And Jenkins, it took him a while to really like and part of it was he was playing tackle, but
00:18:52
Speaker
Part of it too was he just wasn't moving as good as he was before the injury. So I do think Van Ness is going to be, you know, he's going to be your edge three. They're going to kind of break him in. They're going to let him test the waters that way.
00:19:05
Speaker
kind of let him get his feet wet as a sub package rusher. And then the more snaps you see him get on run downs, that'll mean that he's progressing along kind of thing and stuff. That's the way that I look at it in terms of his progression in terms of picking up the playbook and stuff. Because pass rushing is pretty, I don't want to say it's easy, but it's a lot easier to learn pass rush rules than it is to learn all the run stopping rules. And we'll kind of get into that when we get into the Packers defensive philosophy.
00:19:34
Speaker
And that's kind of the same thing for wooden and Brooks in that I think they're primarily going to be used as sub package pass rush guys, Brooks in particular, just because of his size, because for all intents and purposes, they're looking at him and thinking, can we get another Mike Daniels? That's basically what I think Gouda Kuntz is is gambling on with with Brooks with wooden.
00:19:58
Speaker
I think that they're looking for someone in the mold of Mike Neal when Mike Neal was still a D lineman when he was a rookie and a second year player coming out of Purdue where, you know, like Nick said, he's not your stereotypical, you know, yoked up five technique, but he's someone who can play five technique. But he's here to get some interior pressure. And that's that's the reason that he was drafted. And, you know, like,
00:20:23
Speaker
I my preference was Ojomo from Texas. I thought that he's a guy where you know what his role is right now, but he did have, you know, athletic upside and pass rush ability that I thought would play up more in the pros than it did in college. But Green Bay has always picked the guys with pass rush potential over the guys that are like right now a run stuffing kind of player and stuff. So I think that you're going to see him break in as
00:20:52
Speaker
pass the rush specialists. And then, like I said, the turn you're looking for them to make is, you know, by around week eight or nine to see if they start to get more early, early rundown snaps and, you know, not injury driven kind of thing or anything like that. You want to see them sort of start to earn those reps. And, you know, that's something that even Wyatt didn't really do. And I get it because, you know, the situation is a little different. And that's the thing is like last year's team, you know, people were always like, why is it Wyatt playing more?
00:21:21
Speaker
The problem with that is that the team wasn't eliminated from playoff contention. And I know this isn't the answer people want to hear or the most exhilarating one. But until the team was eliminated, they were going to lean on the veterans to take them home kind of thing and stuff. It's a very old school kind of way of thinking. And it's kind of what I'm getting at is you're trusting your vets to know their run sets.
00:21:51
Speaker
It's funny talking about that with Reed and especially with Lowry because he was just a human blow up doll on run down. It's one of those where they trust their vets to be in the right position and run defense because it is a gap control run defense.
00:22:11
Speaker
The faster those two guys on the D-line can pick it up, the better. And honestly, depending on what sub-packages Van Ness gets himself into, he might get some interior snaps too. They won't have him there intending to defend the run, but I do think he might get some of those Zadarius snaps, or when we used to put
00:22:32
Speaker
Julius Pepper is down with his hand down as a three technique kind of thing and stuff, especially if Roshan's out for, you know, on PUP, he's going to miss four weeks. So I think Van Ness would be the guy because they don't really have a guy with that kind of a frame to take those snaps up. And then you'd still have like a Hollins and JJ Inigbari and Preston to play the edge. And you can kind of
00:22:54
Speaker
use a van Ness's that Joker kind of Rover, um, Russia role that, you know, we've seen Rashawn do recently and obviously Zadarius made it, you know, kind of big in 2019. So that's kind of the, the super surface level outlook on those guys.
Evolving Defensive Schemes
00:23:12
Speaker
Now, is there a possibility that we could see more of a four, three front with the type of guys that the Packers have brought in? I mean,
00:23:22
Speaker
I mean, so that's something that I've talked about, like mafia and I have gone back and forth about it. And so, yeah, Green Bay is a three four defense bore in name that it is in substance, like, because they play so much sub package. And that's the thing is like,
00:23:42
Speaker
Their sub-package fronts are all four-man fronts. They're playing with two linebackers, but their linebackers are really edge rushers. So they're standing up, but they're really playing like a four-man, like a four-two-five nickel, as opposed to like a two-four-five nickel kind of thing.
00:24:03
Speaker
And mafia and I were joking about it how like, you know, because the, the, one of the things that came up is like, Leslie Frazier visited the Packers and you know, would green base. And, and it's like, and I kind of jokingly raised the question of, I know he's mostly been a four three guy. But does he have any chops with three four, but at the same time,
00:24:24
Speaker
if they for whatever reason decided to move on from Barry in season sneak preview I don't think they would but if for whatever they did I don't think it would be that big of a transition to go from what Green Bay does to a 4-3 being their base because they basically run a four-man front in all their sub packages whether it's their
00:24:46
Speaker
nickel, their dime, even their penny look is more of a four-man front. You know, it does get into that who they bring up on the line of scrimmage and stuff like that. So it's kind of semantics, but yeah, it's by nature of what they do and what they have, it's going to look like a four-man front most of the time, especially when these rookies are playing.
00:25:10
Speaker
Well, and to kind of go off what Nick was saying, it just so happens I was on the Packers roster because of what Mike and I were talking about before we started recording. So I just went and looked a little bit and they actually have wooden listed at 273. Well, that's even lighter than what
00:25:30
Speaker
Roshan was when he was drafted and then Brooks was listed at 295. So I could see Brooks taking that Dean Lowry role because that puts them around the same size and hopefully Brooks can have a little bit more of a success than Dean did. We'll just put it nicely, but
00:25:55
Speaker
It's just, it's weird that they're taking such light players, but the Packers really never have been the type to bring in huge guys. I mean, TJ Slayton was about the only outlier right now as to guys being drafted that were, you know, mountain of men. And so it,
00:26:17
Speaker
It's going to be interesting. I know Davante Wyatt's been out for the voluntary camp so far. Or he's there, but he didn't participate in teams, I think. Yeah, something like that. And Wooden and Brooks have been basically taking his snaps. So, I mean, they still view him as DL, a down lineman.
00:26:42
Speaker
Who knows they could be doing the the hybrid. They've always wanted that hybrid type player. So wouldn't could be that hybrid that could both play the down lineman and the outside edge when need be. I think this first year. In my opinion, in my opinion, I'm going to put it that way, but Nick said Kawano is smarter than me. So, you know, my opinion don't matter too much anymore.
00:27:09
Speaker
I think for the first year Van Ness is just going to be nothing but pure stand up outside linebacker or edge rusher.
00:27:17
Speaker
just until they can get him built up and get some pass rush moves built into him because that's been the biggest knock since before he was drafted was he only had the one real move. I mean, he was a little bit of a speed guy, but it was all purely bull rush. There was no, he didn't have a swim move. He didn't have an undercut. He didn't have any of that kind of thing.
00:27:42
Speaker
So I think for at least for this first year He's gonna be more of a stand-up guy than he is gonna be like a down lineman So I could see that coming later on if they say all right. Well, he's picking up pretty fast He's doing pretty good. Let's start throwing a little bit more at him. So That's how I view it a little bit. But of course, you know, like Nick said Quanto's smarter than me on this stuff. So
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I think like what you guys are saying is very interesting and kind of like, we're not really sure how long Joe Barry's going to be around. I mean, this is kind of his last year to prove that he can do something. I really don't see him sticking around. If he underperforms again, I don't think he'll be around next year. I'm not sure when his contract expires, but I just don't. Yeah. I just feel like a fourth year with this mediocrity is pretty like,
00:28:39
Speaker
Pretty brutal, even for the Packers. I could be wrong, but coach contracts are really weird because they have this thing where they can just re-up them, you know, automatically. Especially, especially assistant coaches. They're, they're like, they might be multi-year, but they also kind of are just like multiple one-year kind of things and stuff. Even like Patton wasn't fired, right? They just didn't bring him back.
00:29:04
Speaker
But that's what I think. Like you said, Mike, I didn't think he would be fired mid-season unless something terrible happened. Which again, this is a kind of testing, you know? I don't really see that happening. I think the only way he gets fired in season is like, so, you know, we've heard reports in the past where Lafleur's like told him, like, do this, do that kind of thing. And then...
00:29:23
Speaker
This whole offseason we've heard that Lafleur is taking a much more hands-on approach to the deep like both sides of the ball He's you know trying to attend more meetings on the defensive side and that kind of stuff and I think the only way Barry Gets fired is if like Lafleur says this is the game plan This is what you're gonna do this week And if he just says no like I'm doing I'm I'm doing it my way kind of thing I think that would be the only way there because you know he
00:29:50
Speaker
Barry comes like highly regarded, you know, and that's the thing like is behind closed door, like everyone in the league loves him. Like he's pretty universally well thought of in the league circles and stuff like that. And I think that you would have to take something big like that where he just kind of
00:30:10
Speaker
flips the bird at la floor kind of thing and you know says nope like you get out of my room kind of thing and then the floor is like all right there's the door so I think it'll take something on the extreme like that to happen yeah yeah no for sure no go ahead I'm trying to form my thought because I'm
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah, but I think because the fact is kind of our bracing for... I don't think they're planning for his replacement just yet, but it's like they have pieces in place for a potential succession plan.
00:30:44
Speaker
I think, you know, like, like, like, yeah, I said, Leslie Frazier, not as in like a potential head coach replacement, sorry, defensive coach replacement, but I think they kind of just like trying to bolster the coaching staff on the defensive side. You know, losing guys like Mike Smith is still like really, really big deal on this defense, especially when we have so much young talent. I think it's really important to emphasize the development of those guys.
00:31:11
Speaker
And yeah, I think next year, I'm not sure who is really going to be available. But even like you guys just talked about, the whole 3-4-4-3 thing is not really as solidified as it used to be in NFL. But things like that, philosophical differences. We'll get into that right after this, how the Packers currently run their defense. But
00:31:34
Speaker
After so many years of this style of defense, the kind of more softer hands-off kind of approach, they might be looking to shift to something a bit more physical, a bit more man coverage as much as there is in today's NFL. It just feels like this is a side of the ball that could be totally different in the next couple of years if things change. What I was thinking was
00:32:04
Speaker
Joe, we've talked about this before where I wish Joe Berry could like be demoted to just be like the linebacker coach because Joe Berry is such a good linebacker coach. But I don't think he can handle the defensive coordinator position. So if there was some way the Packers could hold onto him as the linebacker coach,
00:32:28
Speaker
and bring in somebody to fill that defensive coordinator spot. But I just don't see Joe Berry taking that step back. They would have to get rid of him first. So I don't know. As for Leslie Frazier, yeah, it's a good thought. But he's come out and said he still wants to be a head coach. So even if they brought him in as like a
00:32:54
Speaker
like a defensive consultant this year, he's gone next year if he gets the opportunity to be a head coach. So there'd be no reason to try keeping him around. Cause he still wants to be a head coach. No, for sure. Yeah. Well, like, so like,
00:33:13
Speaker
Going back onto the past two years of Joe Barry, the Joe Barry experience, how do we kind of feel about this philosophy?
Defensive Philosophy: Pass vs. Run Stopping
00:33:22
Speaker
And look, I know, you know, when Sam was on here the first time, we talked a lot about how the, you know, people get so antsy about the zone coverage thing, but like in the NFL, defenses play majority zone coverage in basically every single defense. It's actually the exception if you play more than like 50%, even at 50%.
00:33:41
Speaker
Personally, philosophically, I think it's fine. The whole like, bend, don't break. And even the thing with the run defence not being the focus. I definitely think it matters, but I'm also kind of fine with them not prioritising it if the pass rush and coverage is really good.
00:34:02
Speaker
I mean, Ross Uglum kind of raised this point when after the game happened, they came against the Eagles where Jalen Hurts ran for all those yards and they totally destroyed us on the ground. Even with all those rushing yards, we still could have won that game. Obviously, it's not ideal and you're not going to encourage them to win on the ground. But even as terrible as that run defense was, it didn't actually stop us from being in the game.
00:34:31
Speaker
And so I thought I'm kind of fine with them not dumping heaps of resources into run defense. I mean, philosophically, I'm kind of okay with that. But obviously that hinges on the other parts of the defense actually being good.
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of those like you can't in this day and age, you can't cover everything. And so if you want to be more, you know, the game, it's a passing game, you know, no matter what the Eagles do or what any team does with an explosive running attack, it's always going to be about limiting the passing attack. And if you want to have more guys in coverage, it's, it means that your run defense is reliant on, you know, what I was talking about before gap integrity and
00:35:12
Speaker
And that's, you know, that's one of those where it's like, okay, you know, you have choices up front. So, you know, we've seen Barry, he, he does try to mix it up. He doesn't just play like edge defenders. You've got to hold the edge and funnel everything inside kind of thing because, okay, if you do that, you know, like I said, we play so much sub package with guys who aren't, you know, we don't have a true nose tackle on the field, every down kind of thing, because we can't just have Kenny die out there with no help, but
00:35:39
Speaker
You know, if you're running out there, yeah, I know, right. But like, you know, let's say you're in a sub package where it's pressed in Van Ness.
00:35:49
Speaker
Wyatt and Wooden are your four, like front four guys. And you tell like, okay, if they run the ball funneling inside, it's like, well, okay, but then that means that Campbell and Quay have no meat in front of them kind of thing. Like, you know, like Wyatt isn't a small guy, but he's not a big guy by NFL standards. So, you know, there's choices you have to make. And what we've seen them do is we've seen him do that. We've seen him where, you know, they try to just say like,
00:36:20
Speaker
all 11 guys are responsible for a gap. And Ross has had tweets about this where it's like, if you're going to play that defense, your safeties have to come up and fill the run. And I know Savage doesn't have a good track record for that, but even Amos, who was Mr. Dependable, he wasn't good at it this season. You know, like as much as Savage was, was not great at it. Amos was not good this season either in terms of run, run defense. So, you know, it takes not just, it's not just the scheme you've got to have.
00:36:49
Speaker
complete buy-in from your defensive players and I do think there was you know we'll never know what the full story was but it did seem like there was some sort of thing between Barry and Jerry Gray where like we could sense the undertones of it all season where you know we had that weird one where Savage and Amos were kind of like
00:37:12
Speaker
trying not to step on toes but also pissed after a game because you know they knew that everyone was like the safety suck and it's all their fault and they're like hey man like
00:37:22
Speaker
You can't say that because you don't know why someone is running wide open with no coverage guy around them kind of thing and stuff. So, like I said, we'll never know, you know, what exactly happened behind the scenes, but something wasn't kosher in 1265 Lambo on the defensive side of the ball from a coaching perspective. Guys just seem to be, there seemed to be like a really weird relationship between the coverage to the rest of the defense this season, but
00:37:50
Speaker
I do think there are times where, you know, there's the whole philosophy of, you know, why don't they play more press? Why don't they, you know, and it's it's the whole. So the reason they don't play more press, and I'm not saying I agree with it every time, is because Green Bay plays so much cover four and cover six, where like one side of the field is playing cover four.
00:38:12
Speaker
you can press but that means that guy who's pressing has to get on his horse and bail to deep coverage and so you can only do it so many times before the other team's like okay we're just gonna run a hitch and it's gonna be an easy five yards every time because that dude is pressing you but you've just got to win in a second because he's gone after that like he's getting two hands on you and he's bailing to the deep half the deep quarter of the field and so whereas
00:38:38
Speaker
The idea is we play off because it's easier to come up, you know, it's easier to trigger downhill and attack a play kind of thing. But the thing there is like you have Stokes who's, you know, got beat a couple of times in week one, then it gets in his head. Then he's like, oh, shoot, like, do I, you know, am I reading this right? Do I, or do I need to sit an extra second and wait for it to happen kind of thing? You know, there's a million different things that
00:39:06
Speaker
are happening and I think what fans sometimes forget is that these are human beings they're not you know it's not Madden where every time it's gonna guess right that I'm supposed to jump this flat route kind of thing and the reason that they don't is because they're like
00:39:22
Speaker
You know, Dusty put this great play, it's called Flood. What is Flood? It means that you put three receivers to one side of the field because you're trying to stretch zone defenders out and force those defenders to pick. Do I get the guy in front of me or do I have to go chase the guy in back of me kind of thing? You high-low them all over the place. And that's sort of the conundrum that, you know, defenders are in because you ask every zone defender, what are they afraid of getting beat in back of them? So that's why they're always playing back and
00:39:51
Speaker
So it's it's a combination of a lot of different things. And the thing I was kind of trying to get into fans is at the end of last season is like, oh, you know, there's the whole like, what if Brandon Staley isn't the Chargers coach? I was like.
00:40:05
Speaker
Staley is going to run a similar defense. It's going to be a Ben, you know, a quote unquote, then don't break defense. He might do some different window dressing, some different pre-snap looks and things like that. But I was like, if you don't like Barry's run defense, you're really going to scratch your head on some of the things Staley does because he plays lighter boxes than Barry does. So he's kind of more like petting in that sense where
00:40:28
Speaker
he's gonna play a lot of diamond stuff like that just because he wants his you know he wants speed on the field and stuff so there it's it's it's there's no like magic bullet other than if you get just perfect players on your defense and so
00:40:43
Speaker
surprise surprise Green Bay doesn't have 11 of those on their roster so there's gonna be some window dressing there's you know there's there's guys are gonna have to play a little above their head but like Nick was kind of getting at is that you know the the nice thing is that there isn't pressure on the Packers to do anything the only things the Packers have to do this year is find out
00:41:06
Speaker
What love is? Is he good or not? And then find out who the guys are worth keeping on this defense kind of thing. I think Rashawn is a foregone conclusion. I know some people are making buzz about like, oh, Kenny Clark's there. They're going to re-extend him. Like, he'd have to knock on wood. He'd have to get catastrophically injured. And as much as I busted on Kenny last year for kind of like going into hibernation after the New England game last year, it's not like he had a lot of help out there.
00:41:35
Speaker
I was you know to whom you know to whom you know what when there's great responsibility you know to whom much is given there's great responsibility we've seen Kenny be Superman in the middle of that line with nobody's around him kind of thing and I thought last year he just had a down season but then by the second half of the season he looked like Kenny effing Clark again and so so I I don't he's not anywhere close to 30 at this point and
00:42:05
Speaker
I think that, you know, that's all this side, you know, whether it's looking at it from on the sideline in terms of Barry, some of the other position coaches, Koff, Jerry Montgomery. I do think Rebovich is a keeper. I think he's actually a really good coach. You look at his track record. You look what he did with Enigbari last year after, especially after Rashawn got hurt. He had Enigbari producing up to what his like college, you know, pressure rates were.
00:42:33
Speaker
I think he's a keeper. I think he's a, you know, as much as Smith losing Mike Smith was a, like a buzzkill, Rebrovich has actually been a sneaky good hire by, by Lafleur to fill Smith's shoes. And I am kind of excited to see what Greg Williams brings as the secondary coach. I know, I know some people are kind of like, Oh, like, you know, you know, what's he done and stuff. Like he's coach. Okay.
00:42:58
Speaker
It's not his fault that Arizona had a bunch of nobodies and Byron Murphy as their best corner back. And then Buddha Baker was obviously their best DB. But that wasn't his fault. He's not drafting the guys he's working with. But he's worked with Eric Weddle. He's worked with some decent, I forget who was on the Colts the year he was there. But I think that they've got something there. And the main thing is that he's someone who will
00:43:27
Speaker
coach within the scheme. And like I said, I'm not trying to exonerate Barry. Like I said, there are things that I don't agree with that he does from a schematic standpoint, but I also don't think he's as like dumb and lacking of adjustments as a lot of fans think he is. Like if you watch the minutia and I know Sam does great breakdowns and he's done a million different things on it, he
00:43:50
Speaker
Barry's tried things and whether it's the guys he's got can't do it or if it's just you know if Even if they are doing the things he's coaching and the other guys are just better You just kind of have to tip your cap and like you said Nick
00:44:05
Speaker
remember that this team is built to stop, you know, not stop, but to limit the passing game, not snuff out the run game. And I, I just think those things are kind of a bygone of the past where it's like, you're gambling on one side or the other of the thing. Because it's like, to really stop any run game, you either have to have just world beaters up front like that San Fran team had before when they had
00:44:32
Speaker
You know, Nick Bosa as a rookie, you had Eric Armstead and you had DeForest Buckner. And then look what happened to them. They couldn't keep Buckner. And then they thought, you know, their fans foolishly thought they drafted his replacement. And then they had to go out inside Jervon Hargrave because
00:44:49
Speaker
What's the kid? I can't think of the kids in the Kinlaw from South Carolina. Yeah. Oh, surprise, surprise. He wasn't, he wasn't DeForest Buckner, but it's very rare that you find guys who are definitely are able to, or not guys, but teams that are able to really take both things away without having either some kind of schematic weakness or some
00:45:14
Speaker
makeup of their defense where there is a weak point and it's just a matter of can you attack it and that's where
00:45:22
Speaker
Like I said last year too, you know, as much as I thought the defense was going to be better, my biggest problem for the defense is that the offense couldn't score enough. And I know that sounds counterintuitive to a lot of people, but it's like this defense is made to play in shootout type scenarios where it's like, like you said, it's the Ben don't break idea. And it's like, okay, we're going to let you run the ball, but we're banking that we're going to be able to stop you on some critical down. But if the offense can't score and the defense is like, well,
00:45:52
Speaker
I'm built to stop the pass, but if the other team doesn't need to pass, we'll try, but that's not our calling card and stuff. And like I said, it's not to exonerate Barry, but that's how this team was built because you're thinking with the four-time MVP quarterback that you're going to have an offense that's going to score 30 points a game. And we'll see what Love is able to do on that side of the ball in relation to this defense.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of the part of it where it's kind of, you know, there's excitement, but I don't want to say it's nervousness, but that's sort of the like given goal of where it's like, it's exciting to see what this team is going to do this year, but also there could be growing pains. Like it's very easy to see where those could come in this upcoming season.
00:46:36
Speaker
the game.
00:46:51
Speaker
with his defense. He just kept running out the same scheme, even though he was getting his ass handed to him during those games. Well, you've got to make some kind of adjustments. And that's where LeFlore would step in and say, hey, these guys are doing this. You need to start doing this. And then he would make that adjustment. And, you know, they would start having some success with it. Now, I don't know how true it is. I don't even remember where I read it.
00:47:18
Speaker
But to talk about the disconnect between Joe Berry and Jerry Gray, supposedly, and like I said, I don't remember where I saw this, but supposedly, Jerry Gray was finally just telling his defensive backs to go out and do what you think is right. Don't listen to that. Just go do what you think is right. And that's where the secondary started looking a little bit better. Now, obviously, Jerry Gray is not in Green Bay anymore, so that's going to be a weird thing.
00:47:48
Speaker
But I'm kind of interested with what Greg Williams will do. He was with Vance Joseph in Denver for a few years and then went down to Arizona. And according to this article from Dairyland Express, during William's time with the Cardinals, the Arizona secondary ranked in the top 10 bypass defense DVOA on two occasions.
00:48:15
Speaker
So even with a lot of the, you know, not great players that he had, he was still producing solid pass defense. So.
00:48:27
Speaker
That one's going to be interesting to see what he can do with actually a full stable of known secondary. You know, what's he going to do with a guy like Jair and, you know, Stokes coming back from injury and Rizool and Kishan.
Prospects and Internal Improvements
00:48:44
Speaker
And I know Nick kind of said something about him earlier, but I think Carrington Valentine could be a guy that, you know, shows up this year because I think he's going to be what they were hoping
00:48:55
Speaker
Shemar Jean Charles was gonna be and Shemar didn't end up working out that way, but I think Carrington's gonna be one of them Sleeper guys from the seventh round that could step up and be a be a player So it's it's an interesting outlook. I I really think that like I said, Joe Barry has to learn to adjust and
00:49:17
Speaker
You can play zone, you can play press, but you got to know when to adjust to go to the opposite side when you need to play that opposite side. Don't just keep running the same game plan throughout the whole game when you know it's not working. You got to do something to adjust to what the other team's offense is doing.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like the point that Mike made, I think is very, is like a very astute observation. The fact that the defense wasn't given a lot of ideal situations to work with. That's a really big part of it. All the times that they performed at their best was when they got into those kinds of shootout scenarios. I mean, even like the Cowboys game, you know, part of that was like some silly deck choices as well and poor throws. But I mean, that's, you know, that's just how it goes on defense. And you know, like it would be interesting to see how they maintain
00:50:10
Speaker
any kind of success into next season because I think they were the third most dependent on turnovers. Their defensive production was that the end of the league was the third most dependent on turnover.
00:50:23
Speaker
So that's probably not the greatest thing to be banking on as far as consistency. So we'll see how that works out. But part of that is also just making the most of the opportunities that you do get. So I guess we will see and hopefully when Stokes comes back and maybe Savage kind of has a bit of a bounce back again. And even like Anthony Johnson Jr. is really intriguing. I think he has more potential than any kind of backup option we've had in the past couple of years.
00:50:51
Speaker
I mean we're kind of sitting here getting excited about like UDFA safeties like oh wow he might be a third string for us how incredible you know and like you know it's all well and good and like obviously I support the UDFA guys but
00:51:04
Speaker
Like there's kind of a thing in Green Bay where we just get super excited about depth pieces. And then like even like sometimes the second stringers are actually like not really great. And we get like caught up in like the battle for third or fourth string in a lot of these positions. Like sometimes, you know, you just need to have like players who are good, full stop. Not, you know, like Robert Onion. Oh, he's good if you can scheme him open and you can support him and you know, you can use his hands and like that's all well and good. But sometimes you just need players who can just win.
00:51:33
Speaker
Like, I guess a good football player straight up who can just win. And that's kind of, you know, again, like going back to things like the offensive line, sometimes I feel like we're kind of dependent on getting them in the right situation more often than not.
00:51:47
Speaker
But yeah, you know, I mean, this defense, it's just kind of one of those things. It's just funny cause like they do some things well and some things like awfully and like kind of almost like the patent thing where like statistically it's not as bad as it looks or feels sometimes, but it's also like never as good as it should be. Right. And of course the talent thing is always going to get brought up at first round picks. Yeah. And like it's, it's pretty inarguable that they have underachieved, but you know,
00:52:17
Speaker
Hopefully going into these next couple of seasons, it'll change if Joey Barry gets the boot and things change in the fun office. Yeah, kind of to go in on Johnson. Sorry, I've got to run in a little bit. Got to be a dad in a sec. But I think Johnson is not your typical round seven pick. I know that a lot of people have said it, but
00:52:44
Speaker
Mafi, Brian Mafi put together this great thread. So I recommend all of you to go and find that on Twitter and just look at the work that Brian put into that one. Yeah, I think Johnson has the chance to be the starting safety for the next five to 10 seasons for the Green Bay Packers.
00:53:05
Speaker
He won't start the season, just everyone's got to remember even haha Clinton dicks he didn't start when he was and he was a first round draft pick Savage wasn't the the definitive go to starter when he started out either kind of thing so
00:53:20
Speaker
It's going to take some time. I expect him to roll into the season probably with Savage and Ford as they're starting safeties. Maybe you see Owens battle Ford for it. I do wonder how much like Ford's usefulness on special teams may kind of let them hedge towards someone else, you know, whether it's taking more reps away or if Owens just beats him for the job. I think it's going to kind of come down to those two, but
00:53:47
Speaker
I think forward because he has more experience in the system whereas Owens is coming in kind of he's coming in cold you know this is the first season here but I think Johnson he has a good range you know he's not he's a pretty good athlete not necessarily an elite tier athlete but he has good range good really good ball skills on the back and
00:54:08
Speaker
And you see he has, because he was like, so he's at Iowa State for five years, the first four years he was a corner. And, but you see his cornerback skills play as safety because he has good route recognition.
00:54:24
Speaker
when he has to get down in the slot, he has good man coverage skills. The weird thing, and this is something that Mafi pointed out in his thread, is that, and it's weird because he did play cornerback, is that he's high in his backpedal, which means he's not the most efficient changing directions when he goes, gets into coverage drops and stuff like that, but
00:54:43
Speaker
I think that is something that, you know, hopefully Greg Williams can coach up with him and stuff. But I think the most important thing kind of getting back to run defense, like we were talking about, is that he's tough. And even though he is like a former corner, he doesn't shy away from contact like you expect a corner back to. He's actually got some plays where he's willing to stick his head, his nose in, you know, in there and stuff. And I know there's, you know, people are like, oh, there's the one where, you know, he kind of had to hog tie Bijon Robinson. I was like, well, it's Bijon Robinson.
00:55:13
Speaker
He didn't have a hard time. He ran from the other side of the field. So I don't mind that he dove at him or anything like that. But I think Johnson has a chance to be like, you know, obviously one of the receivers or tight end is going to be, I think the most important player. But I think while Venice probably will be the best player, Johnson won't be that far behind him when all is said and done because
00:55:38
Speaker
He's a guy that I thought they could take as early as round four. And really the only hedging thing was like, like I said, he's only been at safety for one year. So the league tends to push guys back kind of thing and stuff. But honestly, if they took him in round three, I wouldn't have hated it because
00:55:56
Speaker
It was such a weird class because there were so few what I thought were draftable safety prospects. I thought that more of them would go in that late second, third round range kind of thing. But instead, all the teams were like, that is class sucks, so we'll just get them later kind of thing. And so they all slid an extra one to two rounds or whatever. And you had Johnson just slipping towards the end of the seventh round.
00:56:25
Speaker
I'm really glad that Goot was able to scoop him up there. And like I said, sorry, because I've got a Dine and Dash on this one.
00:56:35
Speaker
But I think one of your talking points that you had, Nick, was what are the things that we should look forward to in terms of internal improvement for the defense? So I think one of the biggest ones would be Kway Walker continuing the upward trend we saw in the back half of his season. He was really settling into that inside linebacker spot.
00:56:58
Speaker
Davandre had also bounced back from a rough first third or half of the season and the two of them were really playing well off of each other and I think that that's something where the two of them having a full season with each other under their belt, you know, they
00:57:16
Speaker
they cover a lot of ground, Kway more athletically and Devondri just because he's so like lanky and he just takes up a lot of space. He's not necessarily a big guy, but he takes up space with his long arms and his wingspan and stuff like that. But Kway taking a step would be
00:57:33
Speaker
just a big, big leap for this defense because you solidify the middle of the defense. That's where Green Bay has been weak for since the Super Bowl season realistically. And it's going to just take this defense up another level. And then I think the thing I'm most interested to see is what starting D line do they go to? You know, like we kind of mentioning earlier is
00:57:58
Speaker
I think it would behoove them to move Kenny off of nose tackle for the most part, especially when they're in their three-man, their three-four base defense, their true base defense, just because unless they're playing the Vikings so he can son his son Garrett Bradbury on every play, they're better off having him over a guard where he can just
00:58:18
Speaker
emulsify the interior offensive line as a, you know, kind of like a hybrid three five technique, interior D lineman. And then you get Slayton, who I think made a pretty decent jump last season. You know, he I thought, you know, everyone's like, well, he wasn't, you know, a world beater, but I was like, he's a fifth round pick who became an average NFL player. And I think
00:58:41
Speaker
People, too many fans don't appreciate how much of a jump that is for a second year player to make who's not a top day one or a day two pick kind of thing. That's a big deal for a guy who could, as a round five or later pick, you can be cut any day of the week kind of thing and the team won't really lose sleep over it. For that kind of player who was deemed a project to become a league average player,
00:59:07
Speaker
in his second season, that's a pretty big jump in my book. And then Wyatt also being able to step forward in what will be his second year and assume the other starting DN spot. I think if you're able to get, like I said, they play so little base, but if that's your starting base defense and then you kind of, like I said, they're not quite at the point, but really they are because they've overloaded Kenny for his whole career.
00:59:35
Speaker
You've got to try get him into the 60-70% range, not playing upwards of 80-84% of snaps on the scene. Just because, like I said, I think he's still got a lot of good football ahead of him, but he's only getting older and the amount of mileage on him, it just compounds at this point of his career. So you're at the point where you want to reduce his in-season wear.
01:00:01
Speaker
By getting him off the nose when you can, I think that's going to help. And then I think it'll just give this defense a different look to it to have Kenny kind of playing that strong side defensive end. It's a defensive end on a three-man line, but it's really an interior lineman position. And then you have Wyatt playing on what is the weak side defensive end in the 3-4. And so you just get a little bit of different juice on that front as opposed to
01:00:30
Speaker
And then it just gives you more meat on the front as opposed to like, well, there's Dean Lowry and we're going to run at him every time he's on the field and stuff. So I think there's going to be some addition by subtraction. And it really is just going to be on guys in their second, third season, stepping up, stepping into roles and just really taking the bull by the horns on themselves. And then
01:00:57
Speaker
The rest of the spaces, like we said, this defense, it's not expected to be some top 10, even top 15 unit this season. But if those positions are able to be solidified and fortified, and they're able to buy time for Stokes to come back from, I don't think he's going to be ready for the beginning of this, just because hearing that it was like a Liz Frank and stuff, caution is going to be the name of the game with him.
Expectations for Defense and Jordan Love's Performance
01:01:24
Speaker
let him get back into things and then so you know hold the fort while he gets healthy see if you can get savage back to the guy he was in 2020 and early in 2021 and then get johnson up to speed and you know just like i said you're just trying to see which guys are building blocks and which guys you're kind of like hey guys thanks but we're gonna look for in another direction so that's really what i think the mission is on defense is and
01:01:53
Speaker
like like i said they're not looking to be a top 10 unit but what this unit has to be is serviceable because to get a fair evaluation of love this defense can't be getting dog walked up and down the field every sunday they have to provide resistance because
01:02:09
Speaker
love needs to play in at least tight, you know, even if every game is a shootout, he needs to be within a score kind of thing so that it's not like he's got to play from down, you know, he's not just saddled with being minus 14 every week kind of thing. And then every defense is just pinning their ears back on him kind of thing and stuff. So they have to give him, you know, a fair shake at it because that's the only way that anyone's going to get a real idea of what love is. And if he's able to
01:02:36
Speaker
play well and the offense is able to score some points, that's in turn going to help the defense look, you know, better than it, you know, maybe it is an aggregate kind of thing.
01:02:46
Speaker
But yeah, love it. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't. Nothing else to add, except for, um, I would throw Benny sap in there too. I know Nick just shit all over the UDF as, but I think you, Benny sap is a guy that could probably step into, he's got the lineage. He's got the ability. The only reason why he didn't do, you know, get drafted according to some people.
01:03:12
Speaker
Is because he suffered a few injuries in college and that kind of held him back a little bit But if he can stay healthy and he can live up to his talent he should be able to be a solid guy in that room too, but But yeah That's about I mean, there's not much more I can add to what Mike just said because that hit on all the parts Yeah, absolutely Yeah, well, I think with that we're basically ready to finish up here
01:03:43
Speaker
As always guys, you can find Mike at Kamano Mike, myself at Nicholas grgl, Joe at Iowa underscore Joe 86, and of course the podcast at Outback underscore Packers. Until next time, we'll see you later.