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X Marks the Hedgehog! Let's Discuss Sonic X || Sonic Anniversary Month
63 Plays2 days ago
Three Sonic the Hedgehog fans. One mission. Join Satsunami, SuperShadow271 and WysteriaMoth as they navigate through 35 years of the iconic blue blur. From anime adaptations to the best anniversary games, join the trio as they look back on what made this series so iconic.
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by SuperShadow271 as they look back at the anime adaptation Sonic X 23 years later. Being the most prominent show of the time, how does it hold up? What differences does the infamous 4Kids dub have against the original Japanese version? And they changed the theme song to WHAT in the UK?! Grab your rings and your dodgy dubs as we spin dash head first into the first episode of Sonic Anniversary Month!
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Transcript
Chatsunami's Five-Year Milestone and New Venture
00:00:01
Speaker
Well Shadow, it's been five years, i think I've finally figured out the next step for Chatsunami. Introducing Chatsunami X, the anime. Satsu, I told you to stop breaking in it- wait, did you say anime? Oh you're gonna love it. It's got it's got action, it's got dubious dubs, and Shadow Realms galore. What's not to love? Well that sounds... interesting. What's the plot? Well, get this. We kick off the first season by recapping the early seasons of the podcast. Then in season two, we go all in with the nostalgia-baiting. Hmm, this is sounding awfully familiar. What about season three? Umm... Space tree people? I'm sorry, what? Big ol' tree people with swords and... yeah come on, it'll be great! Just look at the script. Satsu, did you steal a Sonic X script from Sega? Wait, where's Moth?
00:00:53
Speaker
She's, um, in the Shadow Realm. Definitely didn't set her timer to escape for five minutes or anything.
Quirky Show Intro and Sonic Anniversary Month Begins
00:01:00
Speaker
Is that code for trapped in the Sega vaults again? The point is, do you think I would be that stupid?
00:01:05
Speaker
I mean, come on, Shadow. You know how good I am at calculating things. But I also failed math class, so there is that. Welcome to Chatsunami, everybody. Now, if you'll excuse us, go, go, vo go, go!
00:01:23
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the first episode of Sonic Anniversary Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me is none other than the long overdue guest is SuperShadow271. Yes, it's me.
00:01:38
Speaker
Shadow, welcome back. How are you doing? I'm doing quite well, thank you. I'm especially excited for what topic we have coming up. Yeah, it's a doozy. Yeah. Yes, for all the Sonic heads out there, and I'm sure that's the name of the fandom it is now, Sonic heads, press X to continue, that kind of thing. But that's a completely different game. I'm going to cut that. Press right to win. Press right to win, yes. Sonic Forces is next week, of course. Nah, I'm only joking thoroughly. That's a joke, but we will be touching on it, but that is a story for another
Personal Sonic Reflections and Character Impact
00:02:10
Speaker
day. So, yeah, of course, for all the Sonic fans out there, you'll know that this month is the 35th anniversary of the blue blood himself, Sonic the Hedgehog, which is absolutely crazy. And they've got to ask Shadow, how are your knees? Are they alright? Or how's your back doing? Uh, my back is not doing terribly well, unfortunately. I'm in the process of doing exercises to ease it, but it's manageable. Yep, you and me both, because as soon as I saw that I was 35 years old, I was like, no. that can't be right. Yeah, yeah. It's like, like you know, counting with the fingers. One, two, three, four, five, six, oh no, they're right, they can count, oh no. what so Well, I did fail math, so ah maybe I just added wrong. I mean, you and I both. yeah For legal reasons, that joke in the skip semi-accurate. Oh, all joking aside, yeah, this is the 35th anniversary of Sonic the Hedgehog. Cannot believe that. I feel as if Sonic has genuinely been a part of my life for a while, especially in the gaming side. And is it correct to say that that's the same for yourself? Absolutely. Honestly, it it felt like Sonic has been with me ever since I was born because I was 94. So, you know, there's always been Sonic around. All around at the speed of sound. I know that feeling. Yep, yep. And it also helped that my parents, when they would go into a video game stores and ask what's popular, oh Sonic the Hedgehog, he's popular, and so that's probably how they decided on him. That's actually quite funny, because you would think they would say something like, oh, Mario, Legends of Zelda. No, that was a true blue fan behind that counter.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, well, they created another one, so. Like, you ever seen a hedgehog with a gun? No? Well, let me show you. But it wasn't 2005 yet. That sounds like one of those creepypastas, doesn't it? It does. The old man pulled out a hedgehog with a gun in the video game. Not an actual hedgehog with a gun, not be terrifying. Honestly, even back in the day, I thought it was just like some childish forum post and not like a real thing because there were news stories about like, Shadow's gonna hold a gun in this new game.
Sonic's Edgy Persona and Media Representation
00:04:20
Speaker
And I was like, no, that's clearly just some kid said it and everyone's taking it seriously. Boy, was your face red. Yeah. Yeah, boy was I wrong. Oh god, I remember those times.
00:04:31
Speaker
yeah Yeah, back in the days when the information would come out in magazines. Yeah, and you had to the very dodgy screenshots of the games and things, and you thought, is it real, is it fake? And then was like, oh oh, it's violence. It's violence of my favourite character. Yeah, yeah. And speaking of very strange screenshots, of course, the topic that we're going to be talking about today is none other than the anime adaptation Sonic X, which came out in 2003. That doesn't help my knees. It came out two years before Sega decided, hey, let's give Shadow the Hedgehog a gun. I would have loved to have seen how they adapted that in Sonic X. Oh my god, that would have been so funny. Because I remember I rewatched a lot of this in preparation for the episode. A lot of it I genuinely forgot. But one of the things that really stood out to me, and it's something that they did in the, c think it was the Spider-Man series as well, was that they gave the guns laser sounds. So the police are shooting real firearms, and they're all going pew pew pew. And you're like, do you think kids are stupid? To some extent. I mean, I was a big Yu-Gi-Oh fan back in the day and both Sonic X and Yu-Gi-Oh were dubbed by four kids and four kids is notorious for censoring stuff. So in some ways I did fall for it, but also, yeah, it's pretty obvious what they were censoring. Yeah.
00:05:52
Speaker
the shadow realm to the dungeon, you know, it's like... yeah Dark energy discs. That still makes me laugh every time. We need to do an episode on Yu-Gi-Oh, but that still makes me laugh. I would love that. The fact there's an episode where there's a giant buzzsaw and all they did was put a purple filter around. And TinLine is a dark energy disk, it's like, I'm sorry, but if you go to B&Q, Home Depot, any of these like DIY places, you're gonna see that's not a dark disk energy saw. It baffles the mind and boggles the brain. the technology and money required to create such a thing seems wasted to just make it into a saw blade.
Sonic X Anime and 4Kids Dubbing Controversies
00:06:31
Speaker
I mean, I would hate to see what the DIY would be like in their shop, in their home. You know, it's like, oh, do you like this bookshelf? I made it with my dark energy disorder thing. mean, you're crap at card games, but you're good at, you know, carpentry, I suppose. Oh, yeah, Four Kids, that is a dub we want to see. I mean, yeah, yeah. Oh, but my dream adaptations aside, of course, you're completely right. This was dubbed by Four Kids, which is the very much infamous dubbers of the time, especially in the early 2000s, because as you said, they did things like Yu-Gi-Oh, they did Sonic X, they did Pokemon at some point, I'm sure. Yeah, they did. And they did One Piece as well. Yeah. Which is absolutely crazy. Although, fun fact, and this is just me bragging at this point, that actually got to see, you know, the voice of Luffy from the Four Kids dub Erica Schroeder? Yeah. Yeah, I got to see her at Comic-Con. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I just want to point that for second. There's no side tangent, I just want to be like, that was so cool. Because we went to PowerCon in Glasgow and she was doing this speech talking about a voice acting career. Really fascinating stuff, but not a lot of 4Kid bashing there, which yeah I think is a very wise decision because obviously you don't want to insult your employer or whatnot. At least not public. Don't bite the hand that feeds, you know? Yeah, unlike us, which, unless four kids decide they're going to hire us for any VA work, we're going to go at them. Because, yeah, they had some very questionable dubs. Like, as we said jokingly, instead of dying, it would be things like, oh, the Shadow Realm characters would just straight up disappear or vanish. My favourite one is, I remember seeing this ages ago in the One Piece dub, and I think it was, you know, the shark, fa this does not narrow it down at all, but Like this shark-faced guy in the first couple of seasons, and he takes one of the characters, i think it's Nami's mum, he kills her in the Japanese dub. But in the English dub, he turns around and says something like, take her to the dungeon. And it's like, you're not going to see her again.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. One of my favorite dubs that they did, Censors, is in Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds, there's a scene where a kid is being electrocuted and he's screaming in pain. And then they have it cut to the people watching the footage of it and they go, don't worry, he's totally fine. He's just producing that electricity with his mind. Hmm.
00:08:55
Speaker
That is brutal. Yeah. I feel like that's the opposite of, you know, those PSAs you used to watch in school where it's like, for the love of God, children, don't climb up a pylon. Don't go into a power station to get your ball. You will be electrocuted to death. And then there's four kids coming in being like, it's okay, he's got
Sonic TV Adaptations and Sonic X Nostalgia
00:09:15
Speaker
magic electric bill. yeah oh no i don't even know four kids is still a thing to be honest i'm pretty sure they're not no i don't think they are but that is definitely an episode we now need to do and yes absolutely sign me up oh absolutely but going back to Sonic X and I'm quite curious before we dive into Sonic X what is your history see what the Sonic shows as a whole because I remember when I was younger I saw i don't know why this was on so often but I saw things like the adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog you know the one where at the end he has a PSA where he's like oh that's no good you know the one ah the classic if anyone doesn't know google up yeah I'll explain it Yeah, and be sure not to watch a YouTube poop because that is a very popular one to poop.
00:10:04
Speaker
Put that in the t-shirt. That's a very popular one to poop. Yeah, true. I'll make a fortune. Yeah. But I watched that. I watched a little bit of Sonic Underground. Sorry. Sonic Underground. That one. Yes. Which is interesting. And again, that's your whole episode. I think it was Sonic Sat-EM. Although it was called Sonic a Hedgehog. It was called Sat-EM because it was broadcast on Saturday mornings. Remember when cartoons used to do that? Yep. I remember. remember. Pepperidge Farm remembers. But yeah, I remember that. And I think... That was really it before Sonic X came out, but flipping onto you, were you the same? Did you watch many of the old cartoons or... Yeah, I was basically the same. watched a lot of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and I enjoyed it, but it always felt a little off to me in weird ways. Well, it was very odd.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I still have a lot of nostalgia for it, but looking back at it, I'm like, this is just weird. This is so weird. I mean, is that not the same cartoon? You've got Sonic's at AM, which is about a bunch of animals who are freedom fighters against the nefarious Doctor Robotnik and everything. It's really cool. It's dripping with atmosphere. And then you've got the adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, where I think, does he not blow into his hand at one point and a female hedgehog pops out of it or something? I'm sure that happened somewhere, but I don't remember. There's a lot of weird things. I just remember everybody's reaction to those scenes being like, yeah, what the hell is this? Yeah, yeah. All I'm saying is, if you're trying to introduce someone to Sonic the Hedgehog, do not start them off with that cartoon because you're going to lose a friend or close acquaintance, as it were. So yeah, I watched a fair amount of it, although it was always at the mercy of when it was aired because, yeah you know, back in the day, you didn't get to just choose what you watched. True. Preach. And then I would catch little snippets of underground and sad AM. m And I didn't really like either of them. So I never made it a priority to try and tune back in. So I don't have much nostalgia, but there are a few moments that I'll look at and be like, oh, I remember that era. yeah I don't have much attachment. To be honest, this I'm the same. As you said, I watched it when it came on, but that was very few and far between. So, I mean, compared to something like, say, Pokemon, Dragon Ball, or even Yu-Gi-Oh! I think outpaced that. I don't know how, but I've never really yeah watched it so yeah when sonic x came out i was actually really curious because i feel as if that was the point where my interest in sonic was really peaking you know i've said this a million times in the episodes but i'm a huge sonic adventure fan and i was really getting into that i was getting into sonic heroes and whatnot so when this came out i was like oh my god this is so cool to mixed degrees i'm gonna Yes. For me, I'm also an adventure fan, and I was starting to get very into Sonic at that point. So when Sonic X came out, I admit I liked the visuals of it, the animation. It all looked very clean. And then I watched the show and had mixed feelings, to say the least. I'm quite put on the same page here. Otherwise it'd be a short episode to be like, is it good? Print that in a t-shirt.
00:13:18
Speaker
Is it good? And on that note, I do think that is indeed the perfect place to bell grab our rings and spin dash into this, I suppose. Again, I'll get onto that. But yes, we will indeed be right back after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interests. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept your page! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, do you know what I'ma do? It's the exact thing.
00:14:02
Speaker
Doesn't well. She had the pointy teeth. What was that about? She looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back. but She turned into him. I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. yeah Trousers are for the working man You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
00:14:25
Speaker
Leave the kids. You can milk an otage. Oh.
00:14:32
Speaker
That's the worst thing you've ever said on any of the episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chatsoami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:14:48
Speaker
Stay classy and have a banana. This has been chatsoami. I'm sorry, what?
00:14:59
Speaker
hi I'm SuperShadow271. You can find me over on Twitch, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, and even Discord. I play and talk about a huge variety of games, so there's bound to be something you're interested in, especially if you're a Sonic fan. My content tries to be chill with some insightful commentary on games, so if you're interested, please check me out. Thank you so much for listening, and let's get back to Chatsunami.
00:15:21
Speaker
And we are back. So let's talk about the absolute anomaly that is Sonic X. Can I be honest here? And this might be a controversial point, but do you feel as if the Sonic OC community is one of the major sources that kept the show afloat? You know... I think so. It's kind of a lot of different factors, but I think between the Archie comics and Sonic X, there was a lot of fertile ground to make OCs and other things, so a lot of fans really latched onto it during that period. It's just, I remember when I was the thick of the Sonic community and everyone had their OCs and things, and nine times out of ten, what you would always see was somebody who had recoloured a picture of Sonic. And I always thought, oh my god, that's really cool. It's very high quality and everything. But as you were saying before, is really well drawn. Where is this from? And then people are like, oh, it's from this anime, Sonic X and everything. It sounds terrible, but there's some scenes in the anime where I looked at it and I was doing, you know, the pointing at the screen.
00:16:26
Speaker
Oh my god, it's the OC thing. Like the scene where Amy's in the dress or she's hugging Sonic. I remember seeing that everywhere. People were re-colouring, being like, oh, my boyfriend's Sonic. And it's like, oh, okay. That's a lot understand. The cringe is real. And, you know, you had the shadow ones and everything. And my personal favorite, of course, is Nazo the Hedgehog. Oh, of course. Which, for those who don't know, and I could totally be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure it was this image of, it was like a silver hedgehog. And I think it was supposed to be an alternative to supersonic Hedgehog. or something, but they never used it. And the word Nazo, apparently, just means, like, unknown, I think, in Japanese, or something like that. But I remember it got so popular that the animator Chakra X made a whole Dragon Ball-esque animation. It was so damn cool, but he made that, and he made this Silver Sonic as the antagonist and everything that had different forms. It was amazing how much headcanon came out of this one screenshot. And this is before, you know, watching the actual anime. I think you could drag back a Sonic fan to the past just by showing them any screenshot either from season one or two. Yeah, pretty much. Which I don't how to feel about that, to be honest, because the actual show itself, and correct me if I'm wrong, but was this the first one that they got the new voice cast for? for Sonic at the time. So before, Sonic was voiced by Ryan Drummond, Dr. Eggman was voiced by Dean Briscoe, who unfortunately he passed away, so had to replace him. But for the rest of the cast and everything, they replaced them with basically the Jason Griffith cast. I feel as if in that era, it's like you don't remember some of the other ones, but you always remember who Sonic was. As we were talking about before, whether that's Julia White and the adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic's IM or all the way to Sonic X with Jason Griffith and then Mike Pollock and so on and so forth. But yeah, that's right, isn't it? That this was their first debut as the character. So, as far as I understood, and I could be wrong about this too, but I was pretty sure that 4Kids brought on a bunch of people and Sega was like, hey, we should go with these guys instead. So it's kind of more that Sonic X brought new voices to the games rather than them deciding, hey, let's get new voice actors for the games and then put them in the show. Yeah. Yeah, because I was reading that thing, and I don't know how true this is, but it was something to do with Ryan Drummond, who was the voice of Sonic in the Adventure era, and think that's why like the voice so much. But I think he had a falling out with Sega, because at the time they said that he had to live in New York. or something like that. It was something like that, that had to be in New York to work with four kids. And he said, well, I'm willing to move to New York if that means, you know, I get to keep my job. And then, God, do you remember, completely off topic, but do you remember the fan outcry after Ryan Drummond was replaced with Jason Griffith? I honestly don't. At the time, I didn't have very much internet access, so I never really got to see a lot of other people's reactions to things. You're a lucky, lucky person. I really am. I encountered it, went, huh, this is weird because I'm so used to Ryan Drummond's version, but like, this is fine, I guess.
Voice Actor Transition and Chaos Control Confusion
00:19:49
Speaker
And that was as far as it went, but I've never really thought about how other people were taking it. Yeah, not well.
00:19:55
Speaker
I can imagine. Because as you know, between nowadays and back then, the Sonic community is like a pillar of understanding and compassion. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely go nuts when Sonic's arms change blue, but that's another topic. Yeah, yeah, when any change is made ever. Yeah.
00:20:12
Speaker
It's not a good time to be a Sonic fan, Shadow. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, yeah. It's not a good time to be a fan of anything on the internet. Yeah, true. But I just remember, and i think it was mainly younger fans and whatnot, but it was all things like, oh, we're not going to play another Sonic game until Ryan Drummond comes back. Tell Sega you're disappointed. As if they were writing to Congress or something. Or Ministers of Parliament. It was just like, oh, it's so silly. But again, they kept him on. I mean, I do appreciate trying to give support to the things you care about. o absolutely. I probably would have advocated for Sega to keep Ryan Drummond, but it's one of those things where Sega's most likely not going to reverse course unless everyone complains. So either accept it or you leave. Jason, what
00:21:10
Speaker
and wasn't as good on the outset also doesn't help that your voices je the hawk and he speaks like this and you're like oh oh yeah jason what did they do to you but i mean forliny eggs I think he does a good job. Again, you know, when you play the games for so long, it's jarring to hear the difference, but I wouldn't really say there's any bad voice actors in this show. Yeah, I'd agree. I think all the voices are very good. Maybe not necessarily the ideal voices of all the characters, but they're all good enough that it doesn't feel bad to watch or listen to. Yeah, I mean, I've seen so many animes that you listen to them and you're like, oh, this is really hard to get through. yeah, it's an actual struggle to listen to them. But yeah, no, for this, I think they sound fine. think it's more the dialogue that's a problem. Yeah, yeah, the dialogue is probably the sticking point. Because as we were saying and talking about, trust me we'll do an episode on this because it's hilarious, but the 4Kids dub of this is just quite baffling. The only good thing they did right enough, they had a different opening for this. Oh, yes, yeah.
00:22:17
Speaker
I can't even remember what the Japanese one was called, but Japan had theirs, which is really catchy and upbeat, and, you know, if you want a bit of energy through your music, definitely go listen to it. Gotta Go Fast was the one for America and everywhere. Did you know Britain got their own one as well? I didn't know that, whoa. Erm...
00:22:36
Speaker
Do you want to hear it live on air? Because, um... No, no. Have a listen. Tell me what you think of this. A few moments later. This is so weird. Isn't it?
00:22:49
Speaker
Yeah, that was the intro we got. oh gosh. So many things are bouncing through my head right now. So do you like it? Okay, so I just finished, and honestly, it's not that bad, it's just, you know what it makes me think of? It makes me think of Sonic Rush. Yeah. The soundtrack by Hideki Naganuma. It kind of has that sort of funky style going on, which is interesting, but it's so weird because I'm so used to Gotta to Go Fast. Yeah, I genuinely had no idea that Gotta Go Fast was the official one in America until I saw it online, and I was like, oh my god, this is so it's about
00:23:29
Speaker
like You know Dragon Ball where they had the Bruce Faulkner soundtrack? And again, it was a bit much, but you had all the different soundtracks. So then when you listen to the original Japanese version, and apparently it was only in America and the yeah UK, I think they had that soundtrack. So it was really jarring watching everyone else just get the original. And yeah, it's the same for this one. It's like, did you guys get the cool theme? And we got Sonic X, Sonic X, yeah. It's not inspired, is it? That's what I'm saying.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, definitely doesn't leave as much of an impression as How to Go Fast. I mean, you remember the show name, at least. Yeah, true. What's it called? Sonic X. Okay, that's great. Thank you guys, very cool. Yeah, I will say in defense of 4Kids, for as rare as a time as I'll do that, even though people don't like changing the intro, a lot of animes nowadays will just take the Japanese intro wholeheartedly. Yeah. four kids did new intros and whoever they got to do the new intros they were really good because lot of the intros that they did became pretty iconic for their respective series oh yeah absolutely like yugioh has it's time to duel in its intro and is so much more iconic than the japanese intro which kind of sounds rather just i don't know to me generic i'm sorry i think you mean time to do exactly Yes. If four kids just took the Japanese intro, we never would have gotten that. Because, I mean, you've got that and then you've got I Want to Be the Very Best. Like, no one ever you know, with Pokemon and Jason Page's rendition. Oh, it's so good, that one. Yeah, amazing. Or even One Piece. I remember the One Piece intro being pretty catchy, although I know that's more controversial. Was that the rap? Yeah. I know the one you mean there. Yeah, it's just so many of those intros left such an impact on their franchises. Whether or not you like the subsequent dub, the intros are very iconic. Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, we still hear Gotta Go Fast all this time, and Sonic has literally never said it. Wait, has he not? He probably has in recent years, but I mean, when everyone started joking about it, he had not said it by that point. Because I mean, I know he says it in the films, but that doesn't count really. Yeah, that's what I mean. he says it's because it's enough of a joke now that Sonic Team was like, hey, let's include that as a little nod to fans. But nobody consciously at Sonic Team thought to add that sentence until everyone joked about it because of the Sonic X intro. The fans yearn to go fast. I mean, it gets right to the point. You gotta go fast. Which is ironic, because the pacing in this show is so damn slow.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah. It's genuinely, and again, this is when we're diving headfirst into this, but I'm gonna be honest, the one thing I absolutely hate about this show, and it's something that hate about a lot of Sonic adaptations, where it's like, oh, it's Sonic, but he gets transported into the real world and everything, and you're like, okay... It's a little overused, for sure. Yeah, it's always the case. Don't get me wrong, the films and such, they're enjoyable in their own right, but I just wish we had an adaptation where it was Sonic and his world. pun intended. I was just gonna make that joke if you didn't. It's just, it's quite annoying because it's like, oh, look at Sonic, but he has to deal with his tax returns and things. I'm like, oh, Sonic has to go to school to play baseball. And it's like, I don't care. They really don't. And of course, in the very first episode, they do this really weird thing. I don't know how you feel about this, but it's like they don't know what Chaos Control is because they keep speaking about it as if it's an entity, then they speak about it like it's a machine. It's just really weird. It's like Knuckles says, oh, look, that's Chaos Control. Oh, use the Chaos Control. And it's like, do you guys know what Chaos Control is? Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. I know that's such a nitpicky thing, but it's like, you know when you go back to watching an anime or a cartoon that you watched when you were younger, and then they have very obvious people who don't know what they're dubbing? So you just kind of say it, and then they're like, oh yes, Chaos Control? Jim, what the hell is Chaos Control? It's like, ah, don't worry about it. Yeah, it's what happens with a lot of anime, or not even just anime, but a lot of adaptations in general who are don't care about the source material so much they just get the cliff notes and then just ram that in whatever way they think. I mean it's just it's such a weird beginning because it does the thing that I think Sonic Unleashed did at the beginning where it's like oh Sonic is at the tail end of his adventure and he's fighting Robotnik and everything and then all of a sudden things go wrong and fortunately he doesn't turn into a werehog he but his friends get transported into the quote-unquote real world and everything, where he meets the totally not overhated, not despised character Christopher Thorndike. Shadow, what your opinions on I'm sure all positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You'd love this character. Want him to return every single time? No, I hate him.
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah. the The kindest thing I can say is that he felt very committee included. Like, oh, we have to include a human kid character to be like a kid's cartoon. It just felt very expected, if nothing else. Yeah, it's kind of the common thing, isn't it? Where they say, oh, kids won't relate unless you look at the world through their eyes kind of thing, and you're like, we didn't need this. Yeah, they think that having a kid character will help kids connect to all the different other characters, and I don't think that's the case. It's a bit like, you know that episode of The Simpsons with the Itchy and Scratchy and Poochy show, where Milhouse is crying because they haven't got to the fireworks fire? Yeah, that's how I feel whenever a human character pops up, where it's like, oh look, it's Chris's granddad, who's a wacky inventor. It's Mr. Tanaka. Oh, who's the butler. Oh, it's Ella, who's the maid. Oh, yay, cause this is what want to see with Sonic.
00:29:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, every time they popped up, a bit of me inside kind of died. Yeah. so I can see why there's mixed reviews for this show. Rewatching it, they weren't as bad as I remembered, except Chris. But Yeah, again, it's like, I just, I don't see their purpose. Do people, or rather the quote unquote committees, not think that children could relate to Sonic in characters? Yeah, I would assume so. Or maybe they thought that they wanted kids to feel like they were in the adventure. So they included a character that could be like an audience surrogate. because if i'm watching sonic the hedgehog as a kid you know the one thing that i want to do is be in a school while sonic's having adventures outside and you have to deal with the creepy spy teacher keeps following them and everything which i mean he'd be struck off to begin with but yeah it's just baffling and especially with season one and i know i'm taking this so seriously but come on someone has to but season one that is just so baffling to me purely in the sense of as a robot of the week story where it's like eggman gets his animation recycled he's got a whole deck of cards and have to admit i do think that's quite cool and he puts it inside of this i don't know card sort of thing and you know his gambling problem isn't getting any better because he pulls like the lever which how did they not answer that I don't think you could, really. It's like he puts them in and the machine sorts out the best robot for the job. And that's what was baffling me because watching this going, can you imagine for, say, the school episode where they send in a robot teacher? It's supposed to brainwash the kids into loving Eggman and then it rebels against its programming and all of that. What if the machine was like, you know what would be hilarious? See if you send rocket arms into the school? LAUGHTER Dark energy arms. Oh yes, sorry, dark energy arms, of course. He has to return to the other school in the Shadow Realm. Yes, exactly. The Shadow School.
00:31:21
Speaker
but He would as well. Yeah. Something I actually do find really weird as well is, and I don't know if you've noticed this, but they try to edit some really weird things. And don't get me wrong, there's an episode, and i think it's the second or third episode, where Sonic, and I remember this vividly because he's got the Vegeta scouter on his head, it's like he runs to save cream and cheese, which if you're not a Sonic fan, that sentence is going to sound really, really weird. Just assume he's hungry. Yeah, yeah I'm very hungry. Cream and Cheese, they're characters, I swear to God, but he goes to rescue ski them, and then when he's coming out, these cameras suddenly have laser guns on them, and in the Japanese version, he says, oh, shit, and you know, come on, Cream, let's go, which I understand that. I think, okay, can't have a swear word like that in a children's cartoon. That's absolutely fine. But then there's other weird ones where it's like they straight up just erase a lot of the Japanese characters and things. i can't remember why I think it's there's a chaos emerald at the bottom of the sea or something so they're trying to figure out the best way for Sonic to go underwater and to be able to breathe and he holds up a sign which I think had some kind of Japanese characters on it but in the English version is blank I
00:32:41
Speaker
I vaguely remember this. I just don't know why they didn't put something else on it. Maybe, I don't know, maybe it was just too time consuming for a children's show, but...
Odd Translation Choices and Sonic X's Narrative Shift
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah, possibly. They took a away all of the Japanese characters wherever it popped up, which is really weird because there's an episode where Knuckles goes to Chinatown and they keep all the characters there, so it's like, couldn't get the ball, could you? fucking Yeah, yeah. I can appreciate trying to translate things if an important plot point relies on text, but I can't comprehend a lot of 4Kids' censors. As I said, some of them did make sense that felt relatively inappropriate, but yeah the rest of it, it was like, this isn't needed.
00:33:21
Speaker
I mean, you literally have, and I think I put this in the Discord chat, but you literally have a character who's called Uncle Sam, who's a race car driver. Yes. I feel so stupid, but it didn't click with me until I was rewatching it. And it's like, oh, there's my uncle, Sam. And it's like, you're the end of Fantastic Four. It's like, say that again.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah. Why does the police have a Formula One division again? Yeah. Just in case interdimensional hedgehogs happen to speed by. I'm sure this is a running commentary or something back then. But it was like, yeah, we've only caught one person this year.
00:33:57
Speaker
I'm sorry, where is the budget coming from? Yeah, yeah. And again, that's a children's anime and that sort of thing, and you know, it's not serious, but you know the way you're just sitting there like, hmm, they did not think us through, did they?
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, that is my big problem with season one, is that it feels very aimless in a lot of ways. like Yeah. they're doing things and it seems like they try and make it seem like it has some kind of consequence but it's all just kind of the same. It doesn't really add anything to the overall plot and it doesn't really bring up about any interesting topics.
00:34:30
Speaker
It's just there. I had a friend that I tried to get to watch Sonic X because I was like oh you know it's bad for the first two seasons but then the the third season it gets surprisingly good and my friend made it i think halfway through season one and he was like I can't do this anymore it's so bad.
00:34:46
Speaker
i mean yeah it's a rough watch for sure especially watching it back i honestly had to force myself to watch some of the episodes i have to admit i may or may not have sped through some of them because i'm like okay i get the gist of it oh sonic's going very fast he can't slow down oh no how you gonna resolve this i mean it's not like he's in the other 100 episodes of this anime one of the weird ones i have to say and i can't remember if i complained to you about this because i definitely complained to both about it was some of the designs of the robots as well that they don't really feel like eggman robots at times it gets a little bit better as the show goes on but it's like feels more like a cubics villain which if anybody out there gets that reference shout out to you love you but It's like all these robots, they don't have a core design, you know? I wouldn't mind as much if it wasn't for the episode where Knuckles goes to Chinatown and he fights this very female-coded ninja. Oh, yes. Why did Eggman design that?
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, Eggman's a known feminist after all, right? Oh, of course. Of all the robots, all the robots have been very brutal, metallic, hulking machines and everything. And then you get to that episode where you're like, must be real lonely in that ionic bag because I don't get it.
00:36:07
Speaker
yeah owners but Yeah, that's honestly all I can say about the first season. First season's quite, yeah, it's aimless. Yeah, it's quite bad. Yeah, I can understand why people skip it and go yeah like directly to season two, which season two, I would say is a step up, but it does have its issues, doesn't it? Yeah, I would agree roughly. It has some good points, but it still suffers from a lot of the issues that Season 1 also had. Because it tries to at least link in more with the games and things like that. It goes through, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm definitely going to forget one or two of them, but they do Sonic Adventure first, and then they do Sonic Adventure 2, and they only last for like a couple of episodes. It's really, really short. They've got that, and then it's Sonic... battle i remember the fake screenshots that came out after season three had aired and it was like oh look they're gonna be adapting sonico 6 and sonic riders and it's like no sonic heroes as well and it's like these are really well made but it's not happening guys come on yeah Yeah, I liked the idea of remaking the game stories in like an anime style, but it was so short and it ultimately is kind of pointless. Yeah, that it just doesn't really add that much. I admit there is one episode in season two that really gets to me. And this is probably because I'm a big Sonic Adventure 2 fan. but There's an episode where Eggman has to deal with the aftermath after Sonic Adventure 2. And I thought that was a really interesting concept for an episode because Eggman has to repair the moon that he blew up. Oh, yeah.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like I could see that actually being a really interesting moment to kind of continue on with that story. But in the end, it kind of just doesn't quite land. And then they move on from it. Isn't that, oh, I fix the moon, but ha ha, I'm still evil. can Yeah, like he fixes the moon and it turns out that the half of the moon that he fixed is actually like a weapon of some kind or something like that. I remember watching that on TV when it first came out and it was so baffling that after the space call with the incident, he still had the resources to fix the moon. was like, hmm, that's a bigger job than I think you're letting on Eggman because... Yeah, he's got some serious financial backing. By who? By... Jeff Bezos, I don't know.
00:38:30
Speaker
Because this is something that I think I mentioned ah when Moth and I did the Living in the Sonic the Hedgehog World episode and I made a joke saying, oh, can you imagine if the president supported Sonic and Shadow because, oh, he's pro-hedgehog and he thinks it's going to win him election votes. And I'm not going to lie, see the rage I felt when I was re-watching season one and two and that's exactly what the aid to the president does. He's like, oh, yeah Being friends with Sonic, that'll boost our poll numbers. I was like, son of a bitch, they've stolen my joke. he Yeah. I mean, obviously, they hat for legal reasons, they didn't steal it. you know you might Yeah, they stole it 10 years in the past. Or 20, guess. Oh god, I feel old. 23, actually. Oh god.
00:39:16
Speaker
But yeah, season 2, it's a bit of a mix. I feel as if it gets a little better. This is gonna sound like such a nitpick, but I really don't like E-102 Gamma's voice in it. Yeah, I didn't either. I know that's such a nitpick for anyone who's not a Sonic fan, but in the original Sonic Adventure game, it had a deep robotic voice, you know, that this presents a problem. and then And he was like a former Eggman robot that then decided to rebel and free his fellow E-series robots. Honestly, it's a fantastic storyline, but they give him like a really high-pitched voice. And I don't know why. Again, that is a nitpick compared to some of the stuff they pull in this series. But it's like... It's interesting, but i think what is most interesting, and this is when four kids really get into their element, is when they start doing the Gerald Robotnik and Maria stuff, which, for those of you who don't know, that is one of the core stories in the Sonic the Hedgehog canon and everything, where Shadow was created on this space station called the Space Colony Ark, and the military did not like that idea of a big... weapon being inside there so they arrested slash gunned down everybody in there including a young girl and a grandfather and it's like a very serious topic and I feel as if for the most part they do an okay job with it but yeah other bits that yeah they definitely don't like I sent you the clip do you remember this where Shadow's walking through the forest and Chris comes out of the trees and he's like hey that's not Sonic and Shadow does this weird thing where he turns around to Chris and he goes, hmm, Maria. Yes. I had to pause it. I was like, there is no way this is real.
00:41:00
Speaker
but that's the but It's weird because every time he looks at him, he keeps going, hmm, Maria. Yeah, what are your thoughts, Shadow? Yeah, adapting the games, they did an okay job, but the introduction of Chris Thorndike does mean that they have to create their own reasoning to include him, and he does not fit all that well, would you believe? Really? Yeah. So naturally any character that interacts with him is going to come off as strange. I mean, how many people do you think watching it see when Shadow does the chaos control and he teleports to the space colony arc, but Chris is holding on to him so he teleports him up? How many kids do you think were like, put him in the exploding space pod? I mean, definitely at least one, because that would be me. Yeah, If there are no more Chris Thorndike haters, then I'm dead. Yes, yeah. I just think the main problem with him is he's just kind of there. He's a very inoffensive character, but I feel as if because he's shoehorned into every single story beat that they have to have him in some way. And I did laugh at the fact that Sonic, when he gets to the world, is a bit of a dick. towards Chris. He hates him. He's just like, I don't care, I'm going to do my own thing. And it's like, oh, Sonic, you have to stay here or the military will get us. And he's like, haha, I don't care, not my problem. And he runs away you're like, wow, the guy saved your life and you are being horrible to this guy.
00:42:25
Speaker
The worst thing i think they did, other than the weird Maria plotline, which again, Maria. Sounds so gross. It's so
00:42:38
Speaker
I keep saying it, but that's exactly how he says it. Honestly, for any Pandaloris, there is no way he says it like that. Go YouTube it. I swear to God, he does say it exactly like that. But apparently in the original dub, there's a really, and have to admit, it's one of the only few scenes that thought they did it well with the human characters, where they have, think it's Scarlett Garcia or something, and the only reason I remember that is because I watched it a couple of weeks ago, but she goes to interview a survivor of the space colony and he does this flashback where he was a gun soldier that was on there and I think it's implied he's the one that shot Maria and it's quite heavy hitting stuff. I have to admit initially I thought oh it's typical four kids dub and everything where he says oh and then they took her away and everything I thought oh right haha they took her away but then people online were like well no that could also imply that they took away her body and it's like oh that is dark for a children's garden Yeah, yeah. But they also cut out the, and again, can't believe I'm saying this, but they cut out the execution of Gerald Robotnik. Yeah, I think so. For obvious reasons. I mean, would you put that in the show, Shadow? Yes, but I'm a psychopath, so. Oh, yeah.
00:43:49
Speaker
It's my vision. Yeah. Which, again, they have the real guns with the pew-pew sounds, and it's like, yes, okay, fair enough. But I think the worst thing they did in that particular part of the anime was that they took out Live and Learn, would you believe? Yeah, I mean, I do love Live and Learn, so I will never complain at somebody bringing it, but... That's one of the few things I genuinely don't understand, and it's like the climax of that particular saga where Shadow and Sonic, they turn super, are you know, and they defeat the Bio-Lizard, or Final Hazard, for all you fans listening. You know, they defeat them and everything, they do the chaos control, and if you watch the original Japanese version, yeah, it's like they teleport to the sound of live and learn in the background. It's really cool, but I can't even remember what they do for the English sub. I don't remember either, to be honest, it's been a little while. Generic action sounds, it's like, do-do-do-do-do. And then that's really the end of season two, isn't it? Where it's like, oh yeah, Shadow's dead. Enjoy kids. Smash. Shadows in the Shadow Realm. The thing that I do find surprising genuinely is how at the end of season two that they finally go back to their home planet, much like Poochie. They go back to their home planet and then they start having adventures there. Did you genuinely expect that? See, when you were watching it, did you expect them to ever get home or did you think that they were going to be trapped in the Chris Thorndike dimension? No. Yeah, I really did think that they were going to be trapped with Chris Thorndike forever. But um aside from my depiction of hell, I did think the end point of the series would be, okay, we finally return to our own dimension so we can have our own adventures without, you know, all the other characters. But that isn't necessarily what happens. And thank God for that.
00:45:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, personally, if the series had ended after season two, I would have been very dissatisfied, but yeah thankfully they didn't. How angry are we talking to you? Or just disgusted? Yeah, I was gonna say, angry is a little bit of a strong word. I would just say frustrated. It would have been like a, i don't know, five out of ten in terms of anger and an eight out of ten in terms of disappointment. My day is ruined. Yeah. Disappointment immeasurable, of course. Because it's like, it's quite a happy ending, you know? You know what, though? i remember after watching season two, because I watched the whole series pretty late after the series had aired. And I remember thinking to myself, why am I putting myself through this? I should just stop. Why am I even bothering to go on with the third season? So if it had just been the two seasons, I probably would have ended off with the feeling of, man, I really wasted my time. There was nothing worth going in there for. Who's my favourite Sonic fan? Not anymore. Yeah. It's not looking good, lad. Let's hope Sonic the Hedgehog in 2006 will be better. know Don't worry, that's next week's episode. Yes. Honestly, see, as a summary to season one and two, I feel as if there are some highlights of
00:46:43
Speaker
Again, maybe it's nostalgia pandering in me where I was like, oh, look, it's the thing from the game. And oh, look, it's the characters and everything. But yeah, I mean, there's one or two two good episodes with the human characters as well, like the one where Sonic, and there's one that didn't mention when we're talking about season one, but the one where Sonic and think it's Helen, one of Chris's friends, who, she's a girl in a wheelchair, and he just basically understands that she can't get around without her parents and things, so he takes her around all of these places, and meanwhile, hope the military of the government's trying to get him to go to a party. in the White House and I'm like, oh, it's so silly. But again, it's like a good kind of silly. But that is such a good episode and is, it's really sweet and heartfelt, which is such a shame compared to half the rest of the season. Yeah, true. I think season two had ups, but I say there are more downs than ups. Which is sad because it had more ups than season one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. it was better than season one, but it's not a high bar to clear, so. Do you still talk to your friend after that? Yeah. Yes, I do. But our relationship is different now. yeah
00:47:55
Speaker
i can imagine. It's just like, no, I'm not accepting any recommendations. Thankfully, he still accepts my recommendations because I recommended he play Metroid Prime back in the day But I definitely put that to the test when I recommended Sonic X. It actually reminds me of when my friend Andrew and I were doing an episode on, that I think it was the anime tropes one, and he was saying, you know when you recommend an anime, but you kind of hesitate with some of them because they have particular problematic tropes or things, and you don't want people turning around and looking at you and going, is this what you're into? yeah yeah Season one of Sonic X is like, really, is this the bar you're entertained by? It's like, I swear to God, it was different. There was a lot of OCs. What's an OC? Oh, going to a rabbit hole here. And again, see in terms of animation as well, one thing that I find really frustrating is, and it's something that a lot of early 2000s cartoons did at the time, they have a combination of hand-drawn animation, or maybe it's digital animation at that point, and they've got the really bad 3D CGI animation. It irritates me, see when Sonic grabs the ring and then he turns into that 3D ball. Yeah, oh man, it's always very jarring to look at. There's honestly loads of scenes like that where it's just all of a sudden, it's 3D, and you're like, oh, didn't finish that animation, did we? Yeah. For legal reasons, that's a joke. But yeah, it's a tough watch at times. And you see, before we wrap up and talk about season three, can I just point out one thing that I also really don't like about the show? What? The saxophone. I mean, the soundtrack. Again, not the intro. The intro's great. You know, well, sorry, the American and Japanese intro. Yes. Certified bangers are one. Not so much. and See the musical cues for a lot of the characters whenever heard they pop up, especially for Rouge. Oh, yeah. true yeah i didn't realize how bad it was it's not bad it's worse it's actually somehow worse i thought how can you be that bad because it is every time so for those who don't know rouge the bat is literally the female bat and that's really all i could describe i like yeah she's a female bat go figure yeah every time she appears on screen she's supposed to be this kind of cat burglar oh she loves gems that kind of archetype femme for Exactly. But every time she's on screen, and I don't know if this is the same for the Japanese version, but every time she's on screen, a saxophone plays. Yes.
00:50:25
Speaker
So you know in It's a Wonderful Life when they say every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings. Yeah. Yeah, every time a saxophone plays... Rouge gets screen time. Yeah. Exactly, Rose gets screamed in. And I'm pretty sure that she killed someone on screen, but they never acknowledge her. Isn't that one of the pilots from the Adventure 2 arc? Exactly. Where he explodes and she just kind of goes, okay, now the next thing. Yeah, and obviously they're probably like, oh yeah, it's a robot, ha ha, but it's like, no, she kicks the hell out of Yeah, and there was a pilot in there. literally seen you a cluck being like, did she just kill that guy? Yeah, yeah. genuinely think she killed somebody. The show never acknowledges that. like, oh, it's okay. It's a robot. No, you didn't say that. Batman gets away with it, though. You know, when you play Arkham City and you break someone's kneecaps and throw him off a roof, they're probably dead, but they just don't focus on it. You know, he's not dead. He's just sleeping. Yeah, he's sleeping after being curled off of a five story building. Well, it's the same as Spider-Man as well. It's like, I don't kill people. And then you just hammer.
00:51:31
Speaker
ah I come off the building, you're like, oooooh. True. Although, in Spider-Man's defence, I actually did see what happens to the body, and they automatically get webbed to, like, the side. I mean, it's not a great solution, but it is at least a little more clear what happens. And don't let me catch you in Manhattan again, Spider-Man, I'm dying. ah Please.
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah. Give me up my misery. Yeah, seriously. And speaking of putting us out of misery, that was a great segue. Yeah, A+. We get to season three, which is the third and final season. And I'm going to be honest, I don't know A, why they suddenly shifted gears and why they cancelled Sonic X after this. It gets better, that's all I'll say. Fun fact, one of the writers that they got on for season three, which is Kiyoko Yoshimura, actually wrote for Sonic Unleashed as well and wrote for this season. Where were they hiding her? Okay. Yeah, seriously. I mean, shade to Hiro Misaki, who, according to my sources, is the one who wrote episode 1 to 52. my. What were you doing that? Yeah. Huge shout out to Kyoko Yoshimura. Yeah, who's definitely listening. Oh, absolutely. In this English audio-only format, yeah, from Scotland. Yes. Yeah, genuinely. It was definitely, although the animation is relatively the same, it was definitely a step up, wasn't it, in terms of story?
Season 3's Storytelling and Emotional Depth
00:52:53
Speaker
It's actually, at least in my opinion, a huge step up. I remembered after season two going, oh, why am I even putting myself through this? And then watching season three, about midway through season three, I went, when the hell did this have any right to be this good? I mean, granted, even when I told my friend to watch Sonic X and was like, don't worry, season three gets really good. And he came back and he was like, can I just skip to season three? was like, no, you need to watch the first two because your expectations need to be lowered into the ground so low that you can understand why season three is such a huge leap. I mean, you're not wrong. No. It's so weird. They just totally abandoned lot of the pitfalls that the first two seasons went into and just brought it to a whole new setting and made it really emotionally engaging. It's a fascinating study, is all I'll say, of how did a show just suddenly pass? because this is actually what I would have wanted to see, especially back then in a Sonic adaptation. I want to see Sonic and his friends going on these adventures, and if you're going to have humans in it, which is controversial topic in itself, but if you want to have humans, then sure you can have them coexisting, but this whole, oh, it's another planet, but the planet's actually coexisting. quantum connected or some jargony word to not mobius i never know because they never really clarify sonic's planet but anyway i'll call it mobius because someone will be angry out there you know it's this planet where they're like oh great mobius episode 53 starts off with a slap to the face where it's like oh look sonic's in his super form and he's fighting this alien called gonna say dark oak and but uh yeah something like that yeah they're all named after trees yeah it's this alien that's kicking his butt and then he scatters all the chaos emeralds into the cosmos and then yeah that doesn't stop the metarex from essentially saying yeah we're going to take your planet seeds and Yeah, basically shoots himself in the foot for that one, but for some reason the Metaregs want the Chaos Emeralds and whatnot. It's interesting. It's definitely a step up because you're like, oh my god, who is this enemy that even Sonic can't beat? You get to see more adventures and it's very, this is going to sound like heresy, but it's very Dragon Ball GT, isn't it?
00:55:06
Speaker
I have not really seen Dragon Ball GT, so I can't say. I'll take your word for it. I just mean more in terms of them going from planet to planet and nothing more. I guess so. I just remembered thinking that removing that aspect of Sonic being in a different planet and instead just hopping planet to planet just made it, I don't know, for me, so much more engaging because it was it felt like they were trying to shove the world down my throat less, you you know? Which is a shame because we didn't get Uncle Sam again. True. Or Chris's now dead grandpa, Jesus Christ. That was the one thing that I think a lot of fans were like, oh, this is amazing, this is great. And then they realized what Chris was doing in the other world, where he's growing up now and he manages to create a portal to Sonic's world. It's, yeah, it's very ah strange. They turn around and they say something like, oh, but because time works differently or something, he's reverted back to a child because nobody wants to buy a plushie of a grown man. I saw the great joke. Yeah, okay, that's a fair point.
00:56:09
Speaker
I feel as if overall season three is definitely the season that got the most four kidified, I want to say, because there's a lot of moments, especially, can't remember what episode is, but do you remember where Shadow meets a girl who reminds him of Maria. And she, never going to get old, but he meets this girl and I think her name's Molly or something, but could be wrong. She's in a fighter jet or something. Now, in the original Japanese dub, she gets blown to pieces and I shouldn't laugh at that, but she gets blown to pieces and it's like, oh, it's just like Maria. Yeah. Is this Maria? But in the four kids dub, she just basically peaces out and she's like, oh, Shadow, I have to go. My people need me. And Shadow's like, okay, cool, bye. And then we never see that character again because horror, she's dead. Yeah. I thought you were going to bring up the scene where Eggman talks to Rouge and says she has big boobs. That's a famous one people bring up whenever they mention the four kidsification of season three. See, to be fair, that is absolutely fine. no, it's but it's definitely such a strange part to include at all, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's probably the easiest censor they've ever done. I've been like, yeah, no. Right. of it isn't yeah that's the weird one i mean between that and the other weird one is they introduce a new character called cosmo who's like this plant girl and she has really sweet relationship with tails and all the fans ship them together yeah i mean it's not even really a ship it's like official it's a thing sort of well well official for a while and then tails sought to that breakup yeah Well, it's not a breakup. He still has the little potted plant of her in his workshop when he does Tails 2. Ah, true, yeah. It's just a hiatus, that's all. We were on a break! There's a scene the end, again, spoilers, but if you're with us for this long, you won't care, but there's a scene at the very end of Season 3 where think it's the main bad guy swallows a planet or something, takes over a planet and Supersonic and Supershadow can't defeat him. Oh, by the way, Shadow's alive again. But you can beat him up, and he has to fire Sonic and Shadow through the planet's core or something, while Cosmo's on the planet stopping him. And in the Japanese dub, it is very brutal. You see Tails having a straight-up breakdown. You know, like, tears, fangs everywhere, being like, Ah, Cosmo, I have to kill you! And you know, don't... They say it's like a Mice and Men. Because people start saying, that's how you read Mice and Men. Tell me about the Chaos Emerald's Tales.
00:58:47
Speaker
If you get that reference, yeah, he'd shout it to you. But anyway, yeah, so he shoots her with this massive cannon and everything, and he's probably crying in a lame sonic for it and everything. Whereas, and I can slightly understand why they toned it down, but yeah, it's like in the English dub, it's, oh no, Cosmo, you're my friend, and there's some tears there. And she's like, haha, you coward. And he goes, you know what? You're right. I should do it. Well, thank you. And then that's it. And you're like, eh. Yeah, it doesn't hit as hard, but I will say I still cried for Tails at the end of Sonic X. Oh yeah, it's heartbreaking. But for a whole show that you had to endure season one and two of
00:59:26
Speaker
ah Yeah, that's why I said earlier that you kind of need to watch season one and two to understand just how big of a leap this is in quality. But if you had told me after I had watched season two, oh, you're going to care about the characters so much that you'll cry when the series is over, i would have been like, there's no way. It's not possible. Because, I mean, you have a lot of fan service moments as well with Super Sonic versus Super Shadow. You've got Shadow versus Knuckles at one point. and You've got all the action. You've got quite possibly one of the most iconic parts of Sonic history. And I genuinely, to this day, I need to study this scene and see how I can apply it to the podcast to get it popular. Before I go on, do you know what scene I'm talking about here? Uh, I think so. Dark Sonic.
01:00:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. There's literally a scene where, and I don't like how it concludes, and this will make me sound like a maniac, but there's a scene where Chris and Cosmo get kidnapped by the evil Metarex for some weird reason, Sonic crashes out, he takes a meltdown right there and then, and then they bring out these two Metarexes, and he's really proud, being like, oh, this one's based off your speed, this one's based off your power, and then Sonic's like, yeah, I'm gonna go dark Sonic now. What? Yeah. Yeah. And he just destroys them in seconds. And that one shot of him as Dark Sonic, it's like, how did that have such a grip on people back then? Yeah, the 2000s were a different time. Well, we gave a Hedrog a gun. I think we can safely assume that was going to numbers. True, true. Yeah, I never liked the way that scene ended when Eggman goes, oh, stop complaining. Yeah. They're fine. They're like, oh, we're not going to get more Dark Sonic after that? It's like, no. Yeah. That was it. That's literally, see the game, see the extended media. don't know if the other media did it, because Sonic X had comics that were tied into the Archiverse. Oh, thanks. They had an educational Leapfrog game. Oh, yes, I remember that. You'll probably know this better than me, but is that not like a really rare piece of gaming like memorabilia? To my understanding it's not. I thought it sold decently well to the point like that it's not too expensive, but it's the most desirable of all the Leapfrog games or Leapster or whatever console it was. Clearly the Switch. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah Back in 2006, excuse me, 2007, which is crazy, that's the only adaptation we've had. Well, sorry, except for that one infamous fan game, Sonic Omens or something like that. Yeah, I don't quite remember now. Thinking overall with this anime, it's fascinating to see how it had such a grip on the fandom, but at the same time, the reactions were so mixed to it Yeah. I mean, would I be right in saying this is quintessentially Sonic? Yeah, I think you'd be right in saying that. I mean, especially for the early 2000s. True. And I'm sure that next time you stream, you're going to be recommending Sonic X to everybody. You might be disappointed. But I will say, though, I still to this day think it's the best looking Sonic show, like just yeah purely visually. I just really like the way it looks. See, the thing for me is i think there's a lot of really janky moments in the animation. And again, animation is hard. I'm not an animator myself. And I know that for a show like this that's geared towards kids, it's not always going to have the best. animation in certain angles the thing i really don't like and i don't know why is see when he's running and you get a view from him from behind and he's got three quills yes see his side profile as you said he looks perfect the designs of the characters i think are excellent and they do translate really well but in certain angles you look at him and go what's going on here and Yeah, it's definitely not a perfect looking show by any means, but if you were to tell me to make a Sonic show, I think it would look the most like Sonic X. Sonic X was one of the last few Sonic shows that was animation, wasn't it? 2D, I mean, yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, Prime was 3D.
01:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, and so was Boom. The closest technically you would get was the Shadow Generations one, that which is excellent, but even then, that's not really a series. Yeah, i was gonna say, I don't know if that counts. Damn it.
01:03:41
Speaker
We could have an entire new episode about what counts as a Sonic series because they've commissioned quite a few different animations and things over the years. That would actually make for a fun episode, all the different Sonic animations and things. No, sign me up. I'll add it to the list. Yeah, yeah. Four kids, Sonic animation. See, as a closing point, before we close down this animation for good, I've got a question for you.
01:04:06
Speaker
What would your dream anime of Sonic be? Would you want one that was based on the video games? Would you want one that was an entirely new story? Or would you want something that was more reworked with what Sonic X was doing? I think it would be its own unique story, but i don't have any strong ideas for one. I guess that's why Sega hasn't hired me yet, but... Soon.
01:04:30
Speaker
I don't think that the concept of a Sonic anime can't work. I think it just needs to be handled a certain way, and we haven't really gotten that yet. I think X probably was is the closest we got to it. Because i would genuinely love to. see them experiment a little bit yes ah and again it's a children's franchise i say as i'm a 30 something year old man yeah you know and yeah it's for kids and things so maybe they won't i mean maybe they will nowadays because a lot of the fans have grown up and they slip in references to the old games and things but i would like to see them experiment a bit more if they ever did an anime, one of the things that I am genuinely fascinated with is, i don't know if you've heard of, you know, Star Wars Visions. Oh yes, I haven't seen it, but i did like it in concept. I would love to see that idea, but for Sonic, And for anyone who doesn't know, that is more or less a anthology series where they get different animation studios in to do 20-ish minute episodes. Some better than others, obviously, but the fact of the matter is it's all experimental, it's their expression. Halo Legends also did a similar thing, but if you go all the way back to season two of our podcast, you'll know that my co-host did not like that. Not at all, but again, it would be a really cool thing to play with. Otherwise, I think I'm with you. I think that I would have liked to have seen them just do their original world or even the world that they explore in the comics or the games and things nowadays because they seem to be a lot more consistent than they used to be. So get granted, I hope they don't do the thing where they're like, that's great, we're doing an anime. Anyway, Roger Craig Smith, what you doing next week? Oh, it doesn't matter because we're not hiring you. LAUGHTER I mean, hot take, but I'm ready for a new Sonic voice actor. And again, no shade to the actor because he has fantastic in all the roles he's played. Yeah, yeah.
01:06:22
Speaker
I feel as if he's been there for longer than most Sonic actors. I mean, I could totally be wrong on that, but I think he's been there since, what, 2010? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's pushing 16 years now. mean, fair enough for keeping him for so long. Yeah, I mean, he did announce that he was stopping and then announced that he was going again, but... Yeah, what's the deal with that? I have no idea. yeah I wish I knew because i would be very curious to see what the talks were like. Remember years ago when you would get people vague posting on social media and they'd be like, I'm deleting all my accounts, you know, don't message me, blah, blah, blah. And then luckily the next day it'd be like, hey guys, what's up? I'm back. And you're like, okay, that detox didn't last long, didn't it? Yeah, that basically is what Roger Craig Smith did. mean, wonder if they're going to ask him to come back for Resident Evil or something. I mean, he hasn't been back since, oh, I want to say five, which I keep forgetting he's the voice of Chris Redfield in that game. So it's really jarring when you hear his voice and you're like, is that Sonic Frontier Sonic? You're channeling there. You know what's really jarring? I've been watching some animes recently and Mike Pollock is actually in a surprising amount of them. Oh yeah. So it's so weird that it it'll just be like, wait, Eggman? Yeah.
01:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, the one that really caught me off guard was an anime that Moth and I reviewed on here called My Happy Marriage. It's like a story about a woman who's in a terrible situation. She's married off to somebody else and everything. Oh yeah, I've seen this anime. It's got a lot of good moments, but there's a scene where she goes back to a family home and it's knocked her robot into.
01:07:59
Speaker
It was poison? Yes. Yeah. Welcome back, my child. Eggman? There's another one, that time i got reincarnated as a slime. ah yeah And he plays like a orc general, but it still sounds like Eggman. So, you know, all these orcs are like, oh, don't want kill him. And then it's suddenly like, you cannot stop um me. It's like, oh my God, that's Eggman. Back away before I make mincemeat out of you. I do. That's a voice out of Mr. Yeah, I mean, it's just so jarring to hear all those voices come out of other characters. Yeah, he's one of those voice actors that genuinely, he's just so distinctive. I was talking to you before we came on that I was playing that Claire Obscure game, and one of the characters in that is voiced by Andy Serkis, of all people. You know, Gollum? Oh, yeah. Somebody said that, oh, did you hear Andy Serkis yet? And I'm like, na no, no, no, no. I'm sure I'll hear him though later on and then all of a sudden I was like wait that character that I met all the way back in Act 1 and everything that's who he plays?
01:08:57
Speaker
Because he's just so versatile with the way he talks but yeah Eggman I think maybe it's just because we're so used to the Sonic franchise that we're like yeah I would spot you a mile off but to wrap up things if we've learned anything from this episode it's launch season 3 of Sonic X and then pretend the first two don't exist Yeah, or just assume that the first two seasons were atrocious so you can have your expectations you know at the right place for season three. Yeah, they were lost in the Great Fire. Yeah.
01:09:29
Speaker
What Great Fire? don't know. Yeah, the Great Fire of Netflix. It was terrible. So there's only one season of Sonic. Terrible business. I think that's what Moth is looking for just now. She's looking for season one and two. You know what bothers me? They put Sonic X on Blu-ray, but they didn't put it in HD, so it's just standard definition on a Blu-ray disc. So what's the point of that? Yeah, that's a great question.
Sonic X DVD Costs and Blu-ray Speculations
01:09:55
Speaker
The only thing I could possibly imagine is Blu-ray does fit more data, so maybe they were able to fit more episodes onto less discs, but even still, it's a weak excuse. Pathetic. What they do have which I found interesting was I think they brought it out for see the Game Boy oh yeah the Game Boy Advance yeah there was a couple of episodes that they brought out for the Game Boy Advance and it's like so jarring to know that that was one of the few that they put their resources into yeah Yeah. And I mean, I am totally not googling in the butt. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. So I decided, Handel Orange, in case you're wondering, where can I buy this anime? And I just typed in Sonic X DVD. First one comes up. Sonic X DVD, volume 1 to 13, complete set, £236. Oh my goodness. Sonic X complete English dub series for another one on Amazon. That's £51. Why is this so expensive? Yeah, and then this one is the Japanese dub. Oh my god. Why do I get the feeling that this one's gonna be way more expensive? Surprisingly, it isn't. Wow, okay. $47. Yeah, I mean, still more than I would pay, but it's an option.
Fan Edits, Song Parodies, and Missed Opportunities
01:11:08
Speaker
ah Put that in a t-shirt. Sonic X, that's an option. Yes, yeah. Oh, if you've got the Sonic itch. It's a choice. It's a choice. And it's weird to think that Sonic X came out, it's like the 12th anniversary I suppose, of Sonic. Yeah. Or rather the 12th year of Sonic, which, eh, interesting. It's just, it's baffling that they never, and maybe they did, like, I can't remember when Sonic Prime came out, but they never really continued that trend of saying, oh, we could have a show every five year, or ten years. But then again, I suppose it might not have been as profitable, and especially with the dark age of Sonic in the 2000s, I feel as if that probably would have hindered opportunities, let's just say. for a yeah show to be developed but we'll always have the fan edits I suppose you know of Methilis and Sonic X and Silver as well i remember that one do you like waffles yeah like waffles yeah it's undeniable it has quite the legacy but I don't think it's that great as just a show on its own I thought you were gonna say that YouTube video well I mean yeah yeah for anyone who doesn't know what we were talking about there yeah that was a it was just like a dub of a waffle song Yeah, it was just one of those catchy songs that made by Perigrip, I believe. They just put Sonic X clips over it, but it got so popular. It was everywhere, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
Episode Conclusion and Future Content Promotions
01:12:32
Speaker
And yeah, it was just Sonic singing that he loves pancakes and waffles and things, and people complain about brain rot nowadays, but that was our brain rot, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Oh, and then that depressing note. That is the perfect place to, well, X marks the spot. can't believe I've not made that joke. Thanks, Marge, for spot to end the episode. But in all honesty, Shadow, thank you so, so much for coming on. and Thank you for having me. Honestly, it's been an absolute blast. But before you grab that power ring and decide to spin dash off the screen, which totally looks cool in this audio only, format. Yeah, and I'll be in 3D. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Surround sound. 420p on a Blu-ray disc. Yeah. Where can the amazing Pandalurians at home find your content? Well, if you want to check me out, I am SuperShadow271 on Twitch and YouTube and also on Blue Sky. I'm not gonna lie, I thought you were gonna say Blu-ray there.
01:13:25
Speaker
Maybe one day I'll have a Blu-ray, but not yet. Just you narrating over all the episodes of Sonic Exit. Yeah, yeah. It's just my reaction to every episode. Now, did you know Sonic swore in this episode? Yeah. God, I still want them to leak the recordings they did of the Shadow of the Hedgehog game where they were swearing a lot. Oh, God, yeah. I want to hear it. Again, that's another episode that we need to do. Yes. Just a deep dive into Shadow the Hedgehog. Yeah. Yeah. But until that fateful day, and if you want to keep your ear to the ground to hear whether or not we release that, then you can listen to our other episodes on our website, chatsanami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to give a huge shout out to our Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Hostie, and Cryptic 1991. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show. And if you would like early access to episodes, exclusive content, a whole bunch of goodies, as well as Shadow and I's clear watch along obviously if all legal reasons that last one is indeed a joke then you can indeed check us out on our patreon page at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami this podcast is of course a prime member of the pop pack collective for more information check us out our twitter slash x page at pop pack collect as always thank you all so so much for listening stay safe stay awesome and most importantly stay hydrated