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A Conversation with The Dummy Detective Cast!
47 Plays10 hours ago
In this episode, Satsunami is joined by the cast and creative minds of The Dummy Detective! Featuring writer and producer Jonathan Geffner and actors Deborah Twiss and Ed Altman. But what makes The Dummy Detective stand out? Does Ed do his own stunts? And what is on the horizon for the trio? Let's find out!
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Transcript
Introduction to Chatsunami Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept copyright! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, do you know what I'ma do? That's the exact thing.
00:00:27
Speaker
Does it well? She had the pointy teeth? What was that about? She looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back. but She turned into it. I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. yeah Trousers are for the working man. You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
00:00:50
Speaker
Leave the kids. We can milk an odysh. Oh.
00:00:58
Speaker
That's the worst thing you've ever said on any of the episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chattsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:01:14
Speaker
Stay classy and have a... This has been chattsunami. I'm sorry.
00:01:26
Speaker
It was just another night tossing voice in a dingy dive bar. What's the problem, Miss Lake? My mother, but she was murdered. How do you know? Because someone phoned me saying he murdered her and he would murder me as well.
00:01:40
Speaker
It's not easy being a detective with a wooden partner. The job was to solve a murder. I don't know how it's all connected. Wonderful material for a crime novel where everyone is a suspect.
00:01:54
Speaker
We're in a dead zone.
00:01:57
Speaker
I'm just sick and tired of being your prop. You're finally thinking what's the right thing. Somebody stop us before they kill us all. I think you're onto something.
00:02:13
Speaker
another trouble I have is that Mr. Trillo is very annoying. Between me and you, this guy is annoying too.
00:02:24
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami.
Meet the Guests: Jonathan Geffner, Deborah Twiss, and Ed Altman
00:02:28
Speaker
My name's Satsunami and joining me today is none other than the creative minds behind the film, The Dummy Detective. We have Jonathan Geffner, Deborah Twiss, and last but certainly not least, we have Ed Altman. I just want to say a huge welcome to Chatsunami, everybody. How are you all doing? Great, thank you. Great to join you. Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you. No, it's honestly a pleasure. And have to admit, usually with the podcast, because I've been doing that for nearly six years now, and I've had a couple of people reach out and say, do you want to collaborate? Do you want to do this and that? But I have to say, never thought I'd be getting an opportunity like that. Because saw that Jonathan, of course yourself, you had reached out to say that this film was out and I went away. think as soon as you said, let's talk about this on Chatsunami, I immediately went to see where I could watch it. Am I right in saying that it's honestly everywhere because it's on Amazon Prime, it's on Tubi. Yeah, it's everywhere, isn't it? Well, it is on a number of channels and hopefully couple more soon. Also, still in the process of getting it out there through Film Hub, my distributor. But it's already on a few, as you mentioned, Amazon Prime and Tubi and also Plex. That's particularly good one, although not very well known, it seems, but it's in 130 countries. So in that respect, it's good for access to this movie in almost any country the listeners out there happen to be in. They could probably watch it and for free, by the way, on Plex. And also it has subtitles available in five different languages so lot of options to watch it there no it's absolutely fantastic that it is so available because the amount of films i have to say that i've seen in the past where one of my friends or co-hosts have said oh yeah let's review this and you'll look it up and it's just it's absolutely nowhere but mean for this film is honestly just so fantastic to well to see it pop up of course and the film itself the dummy detective is of course Is it right in saying this kind of noir thriller whodunit kind of thing? Because, of course, Jonathan, you play the ventriloquist detective Van Trillo, and, of course, you're joined by, as we've got here today, Deborah, you play Chloe Blake, and Ed, you play Elliot Black.
00:04:42
Speaker
So, Jonathan, sorry, starting with you, how did it feel to work on something like
The Journey of Creating 'The Dummy Detective'
00:04:47
Speaker
this? Well, this was a very long-term project, so it was feeling of, combination of feelings, primarily, I think, of relief of being finally able to make this dream come true, this vision. had written my first version of this script, of the screenplay, over 20 years ago, and I tried various means to get it produced, and it seemed like I had deal of one sort or another all set through investors or producers of various sorts in various countries many times, and these deals always fell through. So it was a kind of a Twilight Zone experience for me, where I came to feel that there's no way I'm ever going to shoot this movie. But somehow, things came together, an opportunity arose to be able to shoot this at a much lower budget than I had ever anticipated or figured on doing. So that enticed me to just roll the dice and go for it and do it. So it was pretty exciting, and also was a relief to to just finally have it here done. Oh no, I can honestly imagine it must have been a relief seeing that produced an end out there. So, Debra, going on to you, see when you were approached to take part in this film, what drew you into this? Well, love the idea of a noir. I've always wanted to be in a noir film for sure. And the character was really well written. I mean, the script was fantastically written. Jonathan did a great job on it. And you can really tell that he put a lot of attention and effort into it because we've talked about this before, but when a script is very, very well written, it's super easy to memorize. It just, it's very logical and it flows. And even though like a lot of it was really funny little jokes and things like that it flows so beautifully and it felt so good so i was really excited to actually get cast in it but then actually doing it was even more fun than what had imagined it would be so it's completely went way beyond my expectations and that's always an amazing thing to have happen it looks really good all the other actors were wonderful and fun and it's a great project i'm very very very proud of it And flipping it onto you, Ed, as well, what was the thing that attracted you to this project?
Exploring Characters and Themes in the Film
00:06:54
Speaker
Well, the thing that actually really looped me in was, you know, reading the script before I actually auditioned, I felt like I could sort of see what the character would look like on screen. And I found that really appealing because my character is very dark. He's very abject. He's been through a trauma. So he's socially withdrawn and he lives in his own little world. And you could see that so that auditioning for it, you kind of had the view of what it was ultimately going look like. And I just found it very cozy. Also, I really liked Jonathan Rob, who was the director. I liked a lot and I liked the way they handled the auditions. I mean, Deb and I maybe heard as we were just of talking about the vicissitudes and the trials and tribulations of the business. But when you audition for someone who you really feel like knows what they're doing and are very committed and are really interested in making you look as good as you can during the audition, that's really appealing. I mean, those are all the things that just really grabbed me. I can imagine would be really interesting to work on something like this because even whoever did your poster, it is just immediately eye-catching when you look at it and then you want to know more really about it because it's something that, and I mean this in all the best ways, Jonathan, apologies, but you know the way when you see film that has a puppet in it that is their own character and then you almost forget because the actor themselves are so good at embodying that role that you forget that they're a puppet and then you look at them as if they are just like another actor and I know you draw attention to that throughout the film where I think it's you Deborah you say at one point like oh you've got me talking to your puppet and things like that Yeah, have to admit, even was looking at the puppet thinking I had to pull myself back and go, yeah, that's a puppet. Because, mean, am I right in saying, Jonathan, that you have been doing ventriloquism for quite a while now? Yes, well, most of my adult life. I didn't do it as a child. I was a young man when I started out and been doing it all through these years to now as my old man status. So it's been, started it, it was 38, no, 40 years ago. And through these years, it's been my main occupation. See, before you made this film, am I right in saying that you had a web series based on Trillo and Suede? Yes, that was few years ago, about five and six years ago, that I did two seasons of this, 10 short episodes each. So a total of 20 episodes in the Trillo and Suede canon now of the series. What series? If anyone's keeping track, probably nobody. But yeah, I've done 20 episodes and that was sort of the start of the produced works of Trillo and Suede on screen. Because I've done hundreds, countless, probably over a thousand little videos on social media with these characters. But those were just zero budget little things from my home that I continue to do from time to time. And well, now I do it more to promote the movie. But I was doing that and attracting somewhat of a following through the years by doing just fun little videos. videos like that. But then this was the first major effort to do something on a grander scale. Well, okay, I should elaborate more by saying it wasn't really the first produced Trillow and Suede work. It was the first one that I think of because it's more in the lines of exactly what my goals were on screen. But I did a short film called Oxford Park in 2005. So that was earlier. And that short film, I actually shot in England. I shot it in a Little town, actually, it's outside of Farnham. I don't know if you're familiar with Farnham, because I take it you're in Scotland. Is that where you're located? Yeah. Yeah. So Farnham, England is like a distant suburb of London. And then there was a tiny, like a hamlet. And I forgot the name of it, where we actually shot it. But it was a two-day shoot. It was a little film, 15-minute film, Oxford Park. So that was the first actual produced one, even before the web series. I have to say, when I went back to look at, especially for the web series for Trillow and Suede, I could definitely see the characterisation and everything for Suede. I know that sounds a bit, I don't want to say silly, but, you know, to say the characterisation of your ventriloquist tummy. No, it was really interesting. And what I also really found quite interesting, and it's something you brought up, Ed, so I'll definitely start with you this time, but the film itself has a lot of, it's like a mixture of themes between the kind of silly and humorous versus that very much serious and quite serious gritty noir feel to it. And especially with your character, Ed, with Elliot Black. Yet, how did it feel to embody a character like that? It was a lot of fun and it was interesting because there was a real dichotomy between, you know, the ventriloquist aspect of being someone who, you know, manages these puppets and then having your puppet sort of take you over or think that the puppet is taking you over. So in his case, it was very much that he was so associated with the dummy that when the dummy turned on him or so were led to believe, he couldn't handle it. I mean, it was like, you know, part of yourself rebelling against yourself was like almost like an autoimmune disease, you know, attacking you from within.
00:11:50
Speaker
So I think for him, that just completely flipped things around. And one of the things I really like about the script, which is the challenge, you know, Elliot Black gives to Trullo about, you know, well what are you going to do about this? Because you know exactly what I'm talking about. Your dummies may not have done this to you yet, but they might and they will. And what are you going to do about it? You don't have an answer to that. I thought there was like a real heartfelt pain. And yet at the same time, it was actually kind of funny. And to me, that was the best draw into a film is being able to combine both the serious and the humor and have it all come off if you can do it. There's actually one scene, i think I took a moment where I was like, that is just a great piece of cinematography, where i think it's where you're, spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it, this is your last chance to go watch it, but the the scene where your character gets...
00:12:34
Speaker
and your dummy in the corner is crying. It's just a such a great visual shot. Honestly, I was just sitting there being like, that is brilliant the way that's been framed. And then later, there's that moment where you see it's just a leaky pipe above him. But again, it's that idea of it being quite ambiguous of is this person actually getting taken over or is it just their mental state, you know, going through this and everything. It was honestly such a great shot. Of course, flipping onto you, Debra, you of course play the, i mean, Is it right in calling Chloe a femme fatale in this? Yeah, yeah. i mean, because she uses her feminine ways. To try to manipulate poor Trillo, yeah. Yeah, how did you feel about playing that character?
00:13:17
Speaker
Oh, I love it. Are you kidding me? It's so funny too, because like in my real life, I'm just like a girl with a bunch of chihuahuas and two kids and literally I'm Debbie and the dogs. That's who I am But as far as the kind of roles I play, I usually play like the femme fatale, the sexy one, the dirty teacher, you know, all those kind of things, which just it's the funniest thing in the world because I'm so not that slutty chick. Yeah. at all in my world. So it's fun for me to be able to do that on screen because, you know, I would never be that way in real life. I remember, can I just jump in here? When we did a Zoom reading before we started filming and we're like going over the script and everything. And at one point, I mean, because Chloe has all these interactions with the dummies and she was saying, well, you know wouldn't it be funny at one point, like I try and seduce the dummy and we'll see what happens. I just thought that was so funny. I still think that that would have been funny. and even say something like, well, let me see just how wood you are.
00:14:12
Speaker
Perfect. so ah We'll do that in the sequel, Deb. Okay, good. Yeah, you take that line, okay? Put that in there. Beneath the dummy detective. but ah So, John, I'm putting it to you. The main character in the film is, of course, played by you, Van Trouble. Out of curiosity, was there any inspiration behind that character? Or was it just a kind of amalgamation of different detective figures of that genre? Yeah. Yeah, it's more of an amalgamation because I've seen many film noirs I had seen long ago. And I love film noir. It's my favorite genre, if I had to choose altogether. I was always very drawn to that. So Humphrey Bogart comes to mind, first of all, because of the Maltese Falcon, which is often considered the first film noir, know, groundbreaking film. it' Sort of ah creating that genre back in 1941. So, you know, that's a movie I've seen many times. And if I had to choose one, I'd say that was the biggest part of my inspiration. But I've seen many other film noirs and variations of that detective character. So they all kind of had some influence.
00:15:17
Speaker
See, when you went into this film... And obviously, as I said, there is that kind of line between the silly and the seriousness. Were you ever worried at any point, Jonathan, that anything would come across as either too serious or too silly when you were playing the off against all of the other actors? Well, yeah, the first time that ah came into play was when I was writing every particular script I've written. It's always something that I thought about, you know, the balance between the humor and drama, because I never wanted it to be completely one or the other. I wanted it to be a good mix. So, you know, that's often a difficult thing to weigh.
00:15:54
Speaker
you know And I would wonder about it, i never know for sure until it's actually shot and then edited that to be able to look at it and say, okay, well, did I succeed or not? you know Was it too much humor or too little humor? you know but i always strive for a kind of nice balance between the two. Oh, and as far as, yeah, on set, about how to play the character, that's a kind of slightly different issue, or it was for me, because I set about playing my character very, very seriously. And in general, though, I wanted everybody, everybody understood, the actors, that I wanted them to take the role seriously, to play seriously, and let the humor come out of that. in the places where there's a natural kind of absurdist humor that just evolves from the dialogue and the situation. So I knew that some things are going to be funny, but I didn't want people to try to be funny, that kind of thing. right But everybody understood that and played it great. I mean, i'm I'm thrilled with Ed. and Deb in particular for the way they played the roles to perfection in my mind. But for me as Trillo, I'm basically the straight man in the cast.
00:16:54
Speaker
I take things very serious. That's part of Trillo's character is that he's intensely serious in his whole attitude toward life and worried. So you know I kind of just played it straight you know without even trying to be... I mean, I think that's a funny... things that Trillo says or does too. But that also comes out of playing it straight. It's similar to what I've been describing for all the actors. I'm just saying even more so for Trillo that playing it straight was what I felt the way to go. No, because you can definitely see it in the writing and especially with the cast as a whole. I mean, especially with Sean Young's character. Is it Harriet Hubbard? Yes. I mean, that was honestly such a delight to watch when, you know, Deborah, your character comes in and, you know, it's very unsettling. Although, again, it's as you said, Jonathan, it's that they are just doing their own thing. But at the same time, they're letting the humour come through. Flipping it back onto both you, Ed, and Deborah, did you both feel that way as well when you were acting that it came quite naturally to let the comedic parts come out versus the serious parts? I think it was almost like a world. It was a world that was built for the film. And so the comedy was not necessarily, i mean, it was just the extreme noir of the concept. And I think it's difficult to play comedy for comedy, especially with something like this. The best way to play comedy is to play it very straight and take it very seriously. Well, that's what I felt like we were doing, especially you and I, Ed, and Jonathan too. Yeah, because I feel i mean i feel like we had the confidence that we knew the audience was going to fill in the funny bits. You did not need to emphasize it at all because just the situation it now would just would yeah indicate it clear as of it all. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Except in my character, there were some slapstick things that were put in there. For instance, always falling down the stairs and things like that and you know and screaming the top of my lungs. I mean, that was sort of playing funny to be funny and it worked.
00:18:41
Speaker
But that, I mean, if you were playing it too straight, you know, you would have broken your neck. This is true. And did you do your own stunt side? Oh, absolutely. Yes. No, well actually Rob, the director was very good. He's always good at giving you little bits and things. And when I first, I knew in the script, there was this place where i'm supposed to fall down. And he was like, very seriously came to me and said, you know, if you want to, feel free, you can do the fall yourself. And I said, well, no, i'm I'm not going to do that. But they staged it very well. So I had to there were things at the bottom, for instance, the last fall, they had a mattress on the floor and I really had to hurl myself forward. And I got a little bump, you know, little bruised up doing that, but that was really the worst of it. The rest of it, they just put pieces together and looked very convincing. As I was saying before, with a very unfortunate scene, apologies for bringing that the death of your guy now. The whole cinematography throughout the film was done so well. And I genuinely thought that the use of effects and things, because it was all practical effects, wasn't it? Yes. Yeah, the yeah the cinematography was wonderful. Uri Batheon is the cinematographer and he did a wonderful job. Also, Michael Fisher who was the gaffer lighting guy and he was also wonderful. Two of them worked together great because you know they have to...
00:19:49
Speaker
be on the same team working closely together for everything to turn out looking as best as possible. And I'm very happy with the job they did. They both took it very seriously. And especially Yuri in preparation for shooting in pre-production, he had a few conversations with me about what I wanted the film to look like to try to capture that look. I mean, he knew it. I wanted a neo-noir look, even though it was in color. I mean, and noir isn't black and white, traditional noir. So this is neo-noir. It is in color, but I wanted to have the feel of noir, even in color. And he sent me various samples, and I sent him samples of bits of other movies that I thought were similar to my concept. And he just spent a lot of time using his expertise to get the look just right, in my opinion.
Behind the Scenes: Filmmaking Process
00:20:34
Speaker
And am I right in saying that this film took, was 11 days to film? Yes, 11 days shoot in total. Wow, how was that process? Did you feel as if it was quite breakneck was it quite well paced out? Well, we were really under the gun, so it was a very fast pace. Yeah, I mean, in a perfect world, I would have loved to have few more days, but... As I've discussed with Ann and Deb previously too, that I think we all agree that we wouldn't necessarily need or feel that we need a much larger, like a much longer shoot because that wouldn't be necessary. I would have loved to have a few more days. That would have taken lot of pressure off what I was feeling, the stress of having to shoot so quickly. but it was long enough because it was very well planned. And also because Rob Margulies, the director, is very good, very skilled, very experienced with shooting fast. Fast and cheap to keep my budget down, which is what I alluded to earlier, which why was able to actually do it. The budget turned out to be considerably less than I thought it would have to be. So, you know, that's what made it possible without sacrificing quality, with keeping the quality looking good, looking like it costs a lot more to shoot than it actually did. We were able to shoot it at that breakneck speed.
00:21:44
Speaker
Plus, they also had a secret weapon in the location. We were filming at a bed and breakfast in New Jersey that was very atmospheric and the crew could actually stay there. So we actually were able to save a lot of time just people not having to travel back and forth to the location. But the house itself is 19th century house and it just lent itself to you know all kinds of room setups and you know looked bigger or smaller as it needed to be. So it was a great place to work. Yeah, we did luck out on the location. I think that it worked perfectly. it was just the look that we needed for this little universe. You're definitely right. It was on point for that setting. But out of curiosity, and I'm going to go back to you, Debra, on this, because as I said before, there are a lot of twists and turns in this. When you were reading the script initially, did you expect the twist for your character? What were your thoughts on that? I loved it. I knew something was up with her from the beginning when I was reading the script, and I was really excited that, you know, there was such a great twist, because that's something that I had in my head from the very beginning scenes then. It's cool. It's very cool. I loved it. I really did. You know, it's a noir, so you want those kind of twists. Otherwise, it doesn't work as a kind of thriller element, you know? No, absolutely. And what about you, Ed? See, when you were reading through the script, was there a bit of you that wondered if you were going to be the **** initially, or...?
00:23:02
Speaker
but Yeah, I mean, because the elements were there. I mean, there's some backstory and, you know, relationships that are described kind of vaguely. And in the end, you think, yeah, well, and plus he seems so remote and such a little nebbish guy that, you know, it could very well be him. But I won't spoil any further. So Jonathan, see when you were watching the rest of the cast, including of course Deborah and read this, were you quite excited to see what their reaction would be? Well this is the audition process. We had initial through casting calls, we got hundreds of applicants for each role, and then we narrowed it down to for callbacks to a small number. of people. So that's where there were live callbacks in Manhattan, New York. And I ran the callbacks with my daughter, Sabrina, who's a young, brilliant filmmaker, mark her name, because I think you'll be hearing a lot about her in the next few years. So Sabrina and I ran the callback of Rob the director was in LA and couldn't make it out there for those callbacks live. So, you know, I ran it with Sabrina and yeah, especially watching the callbacks because those are the people we thought were best of all the apps applicants who sent in their audition tapes. And so, you know, seeing them bring life in the callbacks to the characters was very exciting. And then, you know, the process of choosing the best one. Actually, it wasn't a difficult process because Ed and Deb both were clearly the best for the roles. It wasn't very hard to choose them.
00:24:27
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. And you gave very good direction too, because i remember the callbacks. You said, okay, now try it this way. Okay, now at this point, try it that way, which I liked because it felt like you really had a very clear idea of what you were trying to get at. So that made it a bit easier for us. of curiosity, starting with Ed, was there any particular scene this film you absolutely love doing? Yeah, my favorite is, it's the scene with Trullo, where, we were talking about this before, where I'm confronting him about, you're afraid of the same thing that happened to me is happening to New. What are you going to do about it? And then he goes through this whole thing about different perils or the different pitfalls that may happen to him if he succumbs to it. Basically, you know, descending into the pits because he's been so humiliated. I thought, I mean, that I just always liked that whole speech. And it was a lot of fun to do. What about you, Debra? I loved everything about this film. I think there were so many different elements that just made it so fantastic. And i mean, being able to dive into like, even just the outfits, I mean, the crazy outfits that I had, we had this great wardrobe designer, a friend of mine, Montgomery Frazier. And, you know, he really went all in and he did great job considering there wasn't that much of a budget, but he was ordering things from Amazon and he knows a lot of designers. So I had this crazy, amazing coat that I wear in the film. And I got to wear this, it's like a $5,000 coat from a designer, but you know he was able to get it for us to use for the film. So you know there were so many different elements that made it feel like like it was a much bigger budget film. Even though it was only 11 days, we didn't get a chance to do a whole lot of takes because we were on such a tight budget as far as time goes. Our director, Rob, was very much trying to make sure that we stayed at 12 hours as much as possible. so that there wouldn't be overtime or anything like that. So, you know, there was a lot of focus and intensity and we just had the best time. We just had such a good time. It's literally one of my favorite films I've ever worked on. I love the way it turned out. I love my cast. I everything. Everything about it, I love being on that set. It gave me such an opportunity to really dive into a kind of character that I've wanted to play. While I may play a femme fatale and things like that, it's never in a legit noir. And that's what this ended up being. This was almost like a graphic novel kind of thing come to life. And that especially was really cool. Like there's a couple shots in the film that are so like graphic novel. They feel so like anime or something. There's so much to it that just makes it really, really wonderful. And then the different plot twist with my character. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that actors just want to sink their teeth into and have fun with. And I got to do that and it felt great. It was just so wonderful. And there's another element to this and I've said it in a couple interviews, but I do want to impress this upon Jonathan one more time because it's very critical. It was literally only eight months prior to that, that my husband had died. And so i was coming out of this awful fog. And literally when I got this, this was exactly, I needed to have something that I focused on so much so that I would be able to hide from my grief, honestly, and pivot into the life that I have, I need to create now. Like i need to work all the time now. There was no life insurance policy or anything. So whatever I make as an actress is what I make. So, you know, between having to work, but then also having to work on something wonderful, literally, like it saved me in so many different ways. It was more than working on a film. It was part of the pivotal part of me being able to turn to the life that I'm meant to live now as a single mom. Everything about this film is just fantastic. I could not possibly tell you the different levels that it influenced my life, truly. no thank you for sharing that and out curiosity because i was looking at your past work as well and i've seen you've done a couple of directing roles as well i was just wondering do you feel as if you prefer one or the other oh no i make movies because there are scripts that i've written that i'm just in love with and i really want to make these films and i pour everything in when i do it and it's really intense But then when I get to go and be on somebody else's set as just an actress, I completely, I'm like, I am glad I'm not directing. I enjoy my time off as just being an actress and being able to really focus my art and my brain and my heart.
00:28:36
Speaker
completely on something. I mean, it's fantastic. I love both. I love doing everything, but I enjoy working for other people. I love the team. i love the team and the connection element of what we do. It's the reason i believe many of us want to be artists so that we can have that ability to connect in so many different scenarios with so many different people.
00:28:56
Speaker
It's wonderful. All of it's wonderful. I wish I could be more kinds of artists. I wish I could be a painter. i have a purple cello in my closet that I got during the pandemic. I wish I could play that. I mean, I wish I had a better singing voice so I could do like, you know lounge singing. All kinds of things. I'm a weirdo. No, the world does need more artists, to be fair, because, I mean, you probably don't need to me telling all of you this about the whole rise of the whole AI movement and things like that. Do any of you worry about that, that your art's going to get impacted with this wave of people who... I'm against as well. But do you ever worry that it's going to impact the art that you create? Or it's going to take it over.
00:29:35
Speaker
I mean, I've done, you know, voiceover work and, you know, got called in for auditions to actually, you know, use my voice to train AI, which I'd sort of turn those down if I was offered to them. But I see it happening all the time. But on the other hand, I also think people are aware of AI and maybe that's only because the state it's in now. But you see an AI generated film because they're all over Facebook and TikTok and Instagram and all. You can tell. And there's something very artificial, very stilted, very unreal, and I think kind of too sweet and unappealing about it. And I kind of think that's going to be AI's downfall if there is a downfall and that there is a lot of hope for you know the people who are actually doing the work and doing it live or filming themselves live. So I don't feel completely pessimistic, but I'm just hoping that people stay as sophisticated and as discriminating as they've been so far. Yeah, I agree. I think when it comes down to the actual artistry, whether it's writing, music, acting, directing, like all these different things, the artists will always be necessary because we are human. And there's a limitation to the creativity that AI is capable of. I think AI is a fabulous tool for things like post-production. There's all kinds of wonderful tools for helping for example um the first song in a movie that i did most recently crave the opening song i wrote the lyrics and then i kept putting it through ai it was like okay make it more like massive attack make it like more and more chiba give it a little bit of portis head and then i gave it to my composer and i said well this is what i want these are the lyrics this is the tune now you do it and then he took it to another level but But it was already like instead of it taking him three weeks, it took him a couple of days because he saw what I wanted. And he then used his spin of artistry. And the same thing goes with like color correction on a film. I just saw this new thing that came out, a plugin for Adobe Premiere or part of Premiere, where normally it would take 30 days to color correct a film. You can make a couple key decisions and then have the whole film color corrected within 10 minutes. The entire thing, every clip, so that one to the next, they all match, everything works. That's amazing. And that's really exciting. But you still have to be able to have the artistry enough initially to make those color correction decisions. So for all art, I believe, needs a human element to it. And it may allow us to make more art, but I don't think it will replace us in creating art. Well, I think it's pretty ominous. I think that there there are these amazing potential benefits, not even potential, but already we're seeing benefits that Deb was just describing. So that cannot be denied. And that is something that's very eye-opening, amazing. but I'm very concerned long term because well maybe I just have a bit more pessimistic nature than my friends here because about human nature, what I'm afraid of is that the public will be not as discerning as we hope they will be, or that enough of the public, too much of the public, will just not be discerning enough once AI hones itself to get even more authentic looking. Because right now, it can't come close to replicating real human expressions and emotions. I mean, close in the artistic sense. In a superficial sense, yeah, they're coming very close already. But artistically, I can't see it creating itself to replace a real artistic work of art. However, it'll get better. They'll keep getting honed to get better. And I am afraid that it will be able to so cheaply be able to make entire movies with entire AI, people who don't exist and so forth. And with the music and cinematography, everything, all these elements will get close enough that a public who's not very discerning will just accept it and buy it. And it's going to put a lot of true people, real people, real artists out of business. That's what I'm afraid of. But let's hope I'm wrong. No, I totally see what you all mean, though, because I do think that on the one hand, there is definitely that role that it could fill in, whether that's background work or the technical side of it, which is fantastic that cutting down the time for that.
AI's Potential Impact on Creative Fields
00:33:30
Speaker
But I mean, I remember talking to one of my friends and another co-host, Marie, who we basically talked about AI for probably about three or four hours in the raw deal so we had a lot to say on it but again it's something that you said there jonathan that there seems to be a lot of people nowadays that they're quite apathetic to the rise of it because i remember years and years ago one my friends and co-host of this podcast martin him and i watched a film on amazon i think it was called space trucker bruce or something and it was this indie project where it was about a guy who as the title suggests it was a guy in space and everything and the whole thing was practically effects it was probably filmed either in a warehouse or parts all of it in this guy's home but at the same time it felt quite endearing you know it was like someone who had put the time in had put the artistry in to say this is my vision you know whether or not it's gonna look good on screen they still went ahead and did it but granted that was long ago before about 10 years ago i don't think ai would ever be able to replicate the dummy detective yeah I think you honestly all do a fantastic job and there's no way AI is going to supersede you guys by far. And actually just think what what Jonathan just said too. I mean, the thing that I think is like, for instance, even now, throwing them out as an example, I'm not trying to be by like Netflix, for instance, you know, went through periods where they created all their own material, which was pretty much interchangeable. I think most people would think was probably just okay, if not even crap. I mean, AI could actually reproduce that stuff and people wouldn't know the difference. And I think the real danger kind of what Jonathan was saying is that for those people who are willing to watch that sort of thing, that may be a real disintermediator for actors and writers and all. But for the people who really do tell the difference or are looking for higher quality stuff, I just don't see how AI can replicate that. Because I mean, it's even when you look at other mediums, like especially podcast, and if they get a hold of my voice, then I'm out of job. Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker
No, it won't work. It sounds bad. They mispronounce words and they're trying to train AI to you know make the words pronounced properly. But I know for myself, I'll listen to something like I listen to YouTube videos and then'll be they try to do Mel Robbins. And then all it takes is one word that's mispronounced that I know it's AI and I lose interest completely. I can't keep listening. So, you know, we are humans. So we are finely attuned, I believe, to what is human. And it is something that it's beyond even what you can see or what you can hear. It's perception. Like you can feel when words are connected to an actual soul that's speaking.
00:36:03
Speaker
And you can also feel it when it's not. That's what I think. That's just what i feel. But I don't think that you'll be replaced at all. Not at all. Fingers crossed.
00:36:13
Speaker
But yeah, it's quite interesting because you see in terms of social media, when you're promoting this film and everything and you're promoting your own work, and I'll start with you, Jonathan, is there any particular site that you would prefer to promote The Dummy Detective and everything else on? Or would you say that they're all very much the same in terms of when you're getting feedback and everything? Well, a challenge for me has always been that I'm not good at marketing. I don't think I'm good at marketing. I don't sort have a head for it. And well, I know that I was terrible at it earlier when I was young. I mean, I've learned to be able to market myself, my projects to some extent, just because I had to. So had to learn to. It's still not my strength at all. I still think I'm not very good it. So that's always a concern for me and question. I try to figure out where should be putting my time and effort into which social media a platform or what other or even what to do on them. What kind of videos should I be creating promo videos for myself in general and now in particular for this movie? And I'm often just not sure. I try different things. I've focused more on YouTube over the years of social media than any other because that just seemed to lend itself better to the videos that I did and that I wanted to do. So whether it was the best use of my time, I'm not sure because I've also time spent more time on Facebook and then Instagram the last couple of years. I've been switching over more to Instagram. was something I ignored for, well, up until couple of years ago, pretty much. And oh, there was TikTok also. That was one that I had zero interest in. My initial thought of it when I became aware of it was that that's for really young kids. That's a very young audience and a lot of very silly stuff and stupid stuff. And so I had no interest in TikTok, but people started to advise me. better go on TikTok too, because so many people are on TikTok now and you don't want to leave out the young generation also as potential fans. And, you know, so, okay. So I started doing some TikTok videos and it didn't catch on much, but what did catch on, I started doing live streams on TikTok. And for a while that caught on great. was like kind of amazing. So I got, even though my videos never got a lot of views on TikTok, but when I did live streams, it caught on people. I guess we're telling other people about it. So I was doing almost every day for a while, for year or two, and getting many thousands of viewers on each one of these lives. Like at any given moment, I would have 1,000 to 2,000 or 3,000 and even over 100,000 in the course of an hour. That was at the high point. The high point lasted maybe a few months. And I had about 90,000 followers on TikTok as a result of that. Just a result of the lives. Because said, they weren't watching my videos. That didn't catch on much. But somehow, lot of people loved watching me kibitz with my puppets and interact with them. So that was catchy. But then it all went into the toilet. All of a sudden, I don't know what happened. Something with the algorithms. And actually, I have suspicions. I won't get into a complicated thing. But with what happened on TikTok, that it seemed like TikTok was sabotaging my lives for some reason and was kicking everybody out that something was happening like I would start my live after a couple of minutes I'd have over a thousand people there and then all of a sudden everyone kick out except 20 people and then I'd build it up again people would rejoin and then get a thousand people and then all a sudden everyone's kicked out and it just happened every time I did a live and eventually I couldn't even get a thousand people and just get hundred people. And so I just stopped doing lives for a couple of years. I know I'm rambling on tangents, but I'm just sort of reminiscing after your question about what's my experience has been on social media. Maybe just to illustrate to you that I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I just, I've tried to different things. And even when they worked for a while, they stopped working, at least on TikTok. So Who knows, isn't that an ongoing challenge? Oh, no, you and me both, honestly. Because even when began the podcast and everything, and again, I think it was a couple of my friends saying, oh, yeah, you should use TikTok to promote. And because, as you know, and obviously... As of recording this, this is audio only, so I have to go in and make a lot of video-type content to try and promote it and everything. And you're right, it's like the algorithm in each site seems to constantly be rolling over. You'll get some momentum, and then all of a sudden it just plummets immediately, which is never good for the old mental health, have to say. But, Debra, going on to you, is there any social media that you prefer or... Well, I'm trying to build my TikTok because I'm actually, sell things on TikTok shop. I work for a studio Manhattan and I do other things. So my TikTok is just at Deborah Twist, but also, and so I'm up to just like about 500 followers. I need to get it up to 2000 to really start being able to sell lot in TikTok shop. And then Instagram, I use Instagram a lot. I just like Instagram because it doesn't have all these weird algorithms that TikTok has. TikTok is ridiculous. It's so convoluted and has all these rules and it's just insane. But anyway, yeah, TikTok and Instagram. I'm on Facebook. I don't use it that much anymore though. Well, actually, well, I've got a lot of business friends from a previous career, so I like putting stuff on LinkedIn only because it's little bit rare to have promotion for a film or something there. I use Facebook. I don't use TikTok or Instagram. And I also have a very big personal mailing list because I do lot of stage work. So that's more local. And the best way to contact people for something that they may be able to actually go to is just through direct email. Social media is a bit of an enigma, but it is honestly baffling because I'm just thinking back to my own experience with it. And before I did the podcast, I did a lot of streaming and things like that. And it is weird seeing how, whether it's like with yourselves, whether it's for a film or whether it's for any artistic endeavour, that you see some people doing exactly the same thing and then they're going up and then other people, it's like they're not reaching the same. And I do think probably that has something to do with the, I don't want to say predatory methodology, you know, asking people to pay to increase their views and things. It's a bit of a pain, but actually speaking of podcasts, and I swear this is my last point for the night, but when I was researching the film and, you know, the amazing work that you've all done, I was watching a lot the behind the scenes videos that you all did, where you were just chatting about film and everything and the process and whatnot. And I've got to ask, when is the Dummy Detective podcast coming out?
00:42:25
Speaker
Oh, well, we don't have any kind of official release date. yeah It's something we've toyed with, we might continue with. We've done a couple of our own little roundtable kind of discussions, which were a lot of fun. I began posting some excerpts and clips from now. they have a lot more clips I can take from what we recorded so far. we all have busy lives too, so ah I know Ed and Deb both are very busy with all their projects. It's also a question of finding time to take on new projects for everybody. Oh no, absolutely. For anyone who hasn't listened to these behind-the-scenes videos, honestly, they are just as... interesting as the film itself. It is honestly so interesting to hear how you go through the process, you're talking about your experiences together and everything and it is just a breath of fresh air to see that you're all so passionate about these projects as well because you do see one or two whenever someone's creating something and they can tell that maybe they're just doing it so that they can advertise and everything but there is that genuine sense of passion that you do feel from your work together and honestly yeah i genuinely think it's fantastic and i'm not just saying that because the paypal check just cleared there yeah and for legal reasons that is a joke and indeed but as we wrap up out of curiosity and only if you're allowed to say what is coming up for the future do any of you have anything and i'll start with you of course jonathan but is there anything coming up in the pipeline i know you joked about the dummy detective too but
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah, is there anything coming up for you? Well, I have several feature film screenplays featuring Trillo and Sway that I've written over the years, over many years, and they're all set to go. i have to find a way to produce one or more of them. I've actually got three that are, I consider, ready to go. Of course, nothing's ready to go until you shoot it. I'd still do more tweaking of the script, whatever, but they're, you know, pretty much ready to go. But One thing to write a screenplay is another way to get them produced. And after what I've went through, all the trials and tribulations and finding a way to produce this one, I really don't know. I wish I could tell you that I've got another one scheduled for production, but I don't as of now. So the main thing is, I believe that is just to promote this one, the dummy detective, as much as I can and to hope for the
Future Aspirations for Trillo and Suede
00:44:41
Speaker
best. And if it does well, then it would open up ah potential other options or attract investors or a studio to produce it because one thing for sure, i cannot self-produce anymore. That's the end of my self-production. You know, write a lot of money into my own projects in the hope that it's going to really catch on big and this is the culmination of the first feature film that I've done after a couple of shorts and the web series and now this so this will have to open doors somehow to other ways other people's money to fund it and I'd be happy to go further with it I hope that happens no that's fantastic i honest honestly can't wait to see what you produce in the future well sorry that's the wrong word to say produce in the future yeah no I can't wait to see what you do in the future yeah what about you Debra have you got anything coming up or I have a couple of things. I've got a little TV show thing that i just got cast in. I'm on hold for a couple jobs. I'm doing, there's an Indian film that's coming to New Jersey. They shot everything that they needed in India, but they can't get visas for their main actors right now. So when those visas go through, I think I have about seven days on that film. And then I'm working on two scripts of my own. I'm working on producing a film that I'm also starring in. It's going to be shooting in Atlantic City in September. And then there's actually a script written by an Irish playwright, screenwriter. And that is going to be done hopefully in the summer because I need it to be warm and steamy outside. But yeah, a lot of things going on. And my latest film, Crave, is actually available on Tubi. And just want to and encourage people to watch that because it helps me get more movies made. The more people watch our films, the more likely we are to get financing to do more films. So that also brings me to one of Jonathan's scripts. I've encouraged him to rewrite it from a producer's point of view, knowing what kind of budget I'm capable of actually getting from my distributor so that I can produce one of the Trillo and Suede movies with all of us again. I'm planning on it. So, ahem, Jonathan. Ahem. Okay. We need to talk further about it. I was going to say a chat tsunami exclusive right there. And last but certainly not least, Ed, is there anything you are currently working on? Well, and actually this case, maybe it is least. ah No, I'm up for a couple of things. So fingers crossed. And I have another film that's actually going through the festival circuit now. And we're going to be streaming hopefully sometime by late summer or um early fall. As I said, I can't wait to see what the three of you do. Yeah, we may be in touch with you again. Oh, absolutely. And I'm not just saying that because we're recording.
00:47:15
Speaker
Genuinely, if you're working anything and you ever want to collaborate or come back on again, it goes for all three of you. Definitely feel free to hit me up and let me know. Nice. Thank you. And also, I love these guys. So to me, everything that I'm going to make from here on out, Ed is in my movie Crave. I will always bring my people, the people that I love together together. on my projects. So, you know, I want Jonathan to stop saying he won't be an actor on other people's things. I want him to come and be on my stuff and I want Ed more. So, you know, I've got plans. I don't ditch out on people once I find them. Thank God. totally know what you mean not to the same extent but it's like whenever i'm working on something for the podcast and i'm like oh i wonder what my friend's doing well they're going to be doing the podcast now so i just drive them on say have you got free night well you're doing this now yeah it is honestly fantastic though isn't it see when you get that creative niche that you get to do and then you get to include your friends and everything into it it's honestly the best feeling isn't it On that note, I just want to give a huge thanks to, of course, yourself, Jonathan, Deborah and Ed for coming on Chatsunami tonight and just chatting about all things filmmaking really and, of course, the dummy detective. So thank you all so, so much. Thank you. Thank you.
00:48:32
Speaker
My pleasure and our pleasure. Really fun discussion. And let me just mention to all your listeners, thedummydetectivemovie.com. That's the place to go for all the links to all the channels currently, which we keep updating, of where you can watch The Dummy Detective. So thedummydetectivemovie.com. Also, by the way, right there, you have all the links to our social media as well. Definitely check out the show notes after this. Well, I suppose you can scroll down and find them right now as you're listening to this. But yeah, the links and everything will be in the show notes. And yeah, thedumiedetector.com, definitely go check it out. Go check out this film and support it because it's honestly
Supporting the Show
00:49:10
Speaker
fantastic. And yeah. couldn't recommend it enough on that note thank you all so so much for listening to this episode of chat tsunami and if you would like to listen to more episodes from our ourselves then please check us out on our website chat tsunami.com as well as all good podcast apps i also want to thank our amazing pandalorian patrons robotic battle toaster ghost state and cryptic 1991 thank you all so much for supporting the show and if you head over to patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami then you can get early access to episodes you can get bonus commentary and then you can get a sneak peek at the dummy detective too for legal reasons that last one is a joke but that is patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami as always though thank you all so so much for listening stay safe stay awesome and most importantly stay hydrated