Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
To Infinity Saga and Beyond! The Rise of the MCU || Marvel Month
37 Plays1 hour ago
With time running out for Season 6, three podcasters must band together to discuss one of cinema's greatest triumphs in superhero history: Marvel. But with so many films and television shows under their belt, how much has it held up? Welcome to Marvel Month!
In this episode, Satsunami and Andrew discuss the rise of the Marvel Cinematic Universe through it's tenure during the mid 2000s all the way to 2020. After revolutionising the way companies saw their own properties, what made the MCU so successful? Could it still thrive despite stumbling ocassionally? And what cinematic universe would we like to see? Grab your comics true believers as we hero land into what made the MCU so great!
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective, an indie podcasting group dedicated to spreading positivity within the podcast community. For further information, please follow the link: https://linktr.ee/podpackcollective
Where to find us:
Check out all of our content here!
Support Us:
Patrons:
Super Pandalorian Tier:
- Battle Toaster
- Ghostie
- Cryptic1991
Red Panda Tier:
- Greenshield95
- Danny Brown
- Aaron Huggett
- Ghostbusters Angus
Free Members:
- Sonia
- Middle-aged Bodcast
- Rob Harvey
- Aaron (Super Pod Saga)
- Billy Strachan
- You Gonna Eat That Crust?
- The Daily Piano
- Deweypodmonster
Use my special link zen.ai/chatsunami and use chatsunami to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
Stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated!
Recommended
Transcript
Urgency and Location Reveal
00:00:02
Speaker
Thought I'd find you here. Come on, we've got a podcast to record. Come to watch me drown my sorrows, huh? Take a good long look, because I'm in no fit state to go anywhere. But you're drinking orange juice.
00:00:13
Speaker
Damn, I forgot this was a Disney bar. But how'd you find me? High-tech surveillance network? Shapeshifting aliens? Were my cookies enabled? Actually, you kept texting me about this place. You even made a meme about it, remember? God, I love memes. Come on, man.
Introducing Marvel Month
00:00:28
Speaker
This could be our greatest theme month yet. I'm talking massive collaborations. Yeah? Bombastic finales. Yeah? Post-credit scenes galore. Yeah!
00:00:39
Speaker
And multiverses! Yeah, what do you want now? oh Don't worry about it. Listen, all I need to know is, are you in or are you out? don't know. would be cool outfits? Epic team ups? And dramatic theme music? yeah Legally distinct music, yes. I'll even let you hold the big red multiverse button. Then I'm in. But don't hold that button anywhere near me.
00:00:59
Speaker
Fine, fine. I'll put it down on this chair and then we'll get going. Welcome to the Chatsunami Initiative.
00:01:13
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the first episode of Marvel Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me today is none other than the first Avenger himself, it is Captain Andrew. Andrew, welcome back, how you doing? I'm good, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be talking about this month's topic. It's something I've been pushing for quite a while now. Yeah, I have to say, we haven't really done anything other than Wonder Man, of course, which was a wonderful episode, but we haven't done as many Marvel-themed episodes, have we? No, we did the Spider-Man month. Yeah. So we went into part, I mean, it was, it's Marvel adjacent and then the Tom Holland stuff is MCU. But otherwise we've not really touched on much in the way of Marvel. And it's something that I'm a big fan of generally. So I have been trying to do an episode on it for quite a while. So I'm happy this is happening
Marvel Memories & MCU Beginnings
00:02:03
Speaker
now. Because I remember when you and I were in university, there was one particular channel that you used to watch. Do you remember that? It was like the guy, he always had like either a Captain America t-shirt on or an Iron Man shirt, and he would always talk about comic things or MCU updates. Oh. I genuinely cannot remember the name. I can see his face. He was like an American guy, but I genuinely can't remember, can you? You should have told it's a head attire. I would have heard it you. Sorry. Sorry to put you on the spot here. Yeah, I genuinely can't remember. It wasn't... No, it can be AMC. No, that's a movie theatre. There was an AMC movie talk that i used to watch all the time. That might be it. You're something on a rabbit hole now. Oh, apologies.
00:02:42
Speaker
What is it? yeah Was it John something? Yeah, it was John-tron. Yeah, it was John-tron. No, no, it wasn't John-tron. John jo Marvel.
00:02:53
Speaker
John Marvel. Yeah, it was John Marvel. That's what it was.
00:02:59
Speaker
What his name? Why don't subscribe to Josh Gad? What, after Wonder Man? No, it was very proud of him. I bet it was when, remember during COVID, he was doing those Reunites, The Law of the Rings cast and that kind of stuff. So, it EMC Movie Talk, but...
00:03:16
Speaker
There was another guy... oh shit, what was he called? I didn't think it was AMC movie talk you were thinking of. John Campier? John Campier was an AMC movie talk guy, yeah. Yeah, that's the guy I'm thinking of. Oh, there was? Okay. All right, fair enough. Which, for all the Pandalurians listening, we totally did not cut out two minutes of us trying to Google and look up this person's name.
00:03:37
Speaker
I have him on Facebook. What, as a friend or a page? Yeah, as a friend on Facebook. No, you don't know. I do. I do. I'm not judging your popularity here, but how did you pull that off? So he just let anyone be a friend of his on Facebook. Is that you're sending a screenshot? Yeah, sending you a screenshot. No way. Oh my God. He was born in Hamilton, Ontario.
00:04:02
Speaker
Ask him to come on the podcast. oh For legal reasons, that is a joke. AMC, please don't come after me. he doesn't work for them anymore. but I feel silly I've even seen movie talk as a bit thing for a long, long time. Really? Yeah, yeah. When were you going to tell me that? want to say it became like fandom or something, but maybe I'm thinking something else. Ah, right. So it was like a rebrand or something. Yeah, well, I think because AMC, the movie theater company, had them do this as like a promotional thing for the movie theater that they just talk about movies and stuff. And then they stopped funding that. And so the people who did that were like, well, we don't have AMC associated with us. I think they then either disbanded or they set up other bits. Yeah. But yeah, it became something else, I think. I get that mixed up with the people who do Honest Trailers, because they did a whole movie talk kind of thing. I mean, to be fair, I think the beginning of the MCU definitely sparked that. I mean, don't get me wrong, talk shows were obviously always there, and especially on the internet, but I feel as if the MCU was ripe for the talking about at that time. So, before we dive in, because today we're going to be starting this month on a positive by talking about the rise of the MCU, I've got ask, other than AMC movie talk of course, what was your relationship, see, with Marvel films and superheroes in general when you were growing up? Were you a fan of them, or...? Yeah, I was a big fan of superheroes in general. There was huge part of my childhood where I was really into things like Teen Titans. I was much more like a DC guy. I love Teen Titans. love Batman, but mostly animated side of things. And Marvel didn't really interest me as much except for the X-Men series in the 90s. And then there was that more edgy early 2000s, I think it was, X-Men series that I used to watch as well. I don't remember, think was X-Men Unlimited or something like that, something those lines. So was really into that. And then around the time that the MCU started becoming a thing, I remember there was a movie that came out, an animated movie called Ultimate Avengers, and I thought it was so, so cool. It has a cold open with these astronauts getting blasted. have a satellite that it cuts back to World War II, where Captain America solos this Nazi castle. I was so amazed by how mature was for like an animated property and it was like superheroes as I hadn't seen them before. So I thought that that was really cool. And so I was really invested that capacity and I would like learn about the characters from things like that. And then once Iron Man came out, I remember seeing that at the cinema. and thinking it was really interesting. I hadn't really been huge fan of the movies, apart from the movie Spider-Man up to that point. Iron Man was the first time where I like re-locked in to a Marvel movie. And from that point on, I was like really invested in that. I think that, I mean, it's the start of the MCU and it's what I was immediately hooked into that. But how about you? So I used to have a friend in school who collected the comics and kind of learned about the universe through osmosis with him. He would come into school and he'd be like, oh I'm reading this comic about Wolverine and Old Man Logan, those kind of storylines. And granted I don't know if that predates the MCU or not, but I just remember hearing his experience and he would play the games as well. remember the name of it, but it's like one of the Wolverine games for the PlayStation 2. I remember he played that a lot whenever I was around. And it was a cool game, but I remember watching the films and thinking, yeah, they're cool enough. Spider-Man was definitely my bread and butter, though I loved. the Sam Raimi films. I mean, we spoke about it in our Raimi trilogy episode, but I just love the films, despite the fact they're cheesy over the top. Some of it doesn't hold up as well as maybe some of the other elements, but still think it was something that really attracted me to both the character and the whole universe. And, you know, we've learned about different bits and pieces, but when they said they were going to release the first Iron Man film, I actually don't think I went to see Iron Man. I remember hearing about it and going, oh right, that's nice for them, which sounds absolutely sacrilege now, but I'm not going to sit here and, you know, pretend that, oh, I was a diehard fan from day one, as it were. But it was interesting to see that it was something that was certainly developing, and I think it was definitely planting the seeds, because when I was looking into this, and the landscape for superhero films were certainly varied, weren't they? See, before... Iron Man and things like that because you had Ang Lee's Hulk which was absolutely terrible because I think you and I were talking about that weren't we? So yeah I know that Ang Lee's Hulk came out which did not do very well for various reasons. There was stuff like Blade was out which was kind like a cult film really like it wasn't really that well known also because I think it was R rated as well I think which did help its wider appeal and then you had stuff like the X-Men films which... were pretty mixed. The first two were pretty good, and then the third one was really bad and was considered really bad. You'd had the Batman films coming out up to that point, and then you had the Christopher Nolan Batman Begins film come out at that point. The first one came out in 2005. Oh, okay. Because I remember seeing that in cinemas, and I wasn't, this might be sacrilege to Batman fans, I wasn't overly blown away with it at the time. I mean, The Dark Knight, of course. controversial opinion i'm still overly blown away but again i'm not that big a fan of it i mean the dark knight took the wind right out of its sails when that came out because that seems to be the definitive one of that trilogy everyone talks about the dark knight they don't care about the dark knight rises or batman begins mean they're serviceable but yeah again you looked at it and thought all right this is an all right film a Partly the plans, say for a wider series and things, if I remember correctly, there wasn't anything like the MCU at this point.
Building the MCU: Early Days
00:09:55
Speaker
I mean, there was crossovers and things like this every so often, but this was really, again, when I say the first of its kind, I mean the first of its kind to be so all-encompassing, so popular, so just successful, because When was researching this, they were saying how plans for it began in as far back as 2005, would you believe? And then they announced it at San Diego Comic Con in 2006. Now, I've seen the footage for it, and it is so amazing how starkly different it is compared to all the other Comic Cons after. Because you know how nowadays it's like they've got a big stage and they've got the big horrors, all and everything and you know they make meal out of it essentially whereas this seemed very like you know they were sitting at a table they were saying yeah we've got plans for an iron man film like a local kind of panel thing yeah wasn't a spectacle it's just it was real surreal to watch back because Kevin Feige, who, you know, all the Marvel fans will definitely know that name, he was supposed to lead it, but he had a very limited pool of characters to work from. And this is actually what fascinated me as well, because apparently Iron Man, do you know what company had the rights to Iron Man at the time before Marvel took them? I had known this, but you'll have to remind me. So, So it was New Line Cinema, of all people. Right. They also had Blade, because Blade came out through New Line. But, of course, as we know through hindsight, the plans for that fell through. Marvel's got the filming rights back. Then, of course, we had, as we were saying there about Ang Lee's Hulk, they had issues of having to overcome the 2003 version, because...
00:11:37
Speaker
russian because It was either superhero films were absolutely fantastic or they just weren't really that good or they weren't really taken seriously. And I wouldn't say they're as bad as video game films, but I feel as if they're kind of on the same bar of people kind of go to see them, but they're not really expecting much from them, if you know what I mean. Yeah, they kind of knew the campiness that kind of surrounded it. For many of the properties, they had that pre-existing, something like the Adam West Batman kind of thing, so people knew what Batman was about, and the Superman and his amazing friends, and whatever it was called, and you could see they would know who Aquaman was, and Wonder Woman, and Wonder Woman had her own show, or that kind of thing. These were characters that were known outside of comics in this kind of media of landscape, but there just wasn't that same level of knowledge and interest in these characters at that time. No, absolutely. Because, I mean, I'll be the first to admit it, even as someone who had friends that were into Marvel, the amount of characters that they were talking about bringing in and everything. And it was like, yeah, I've never heard of these characters. victors And I think that is one of the things that was just so baffling about this whole thing. And I mean baffling in all the best ways that they managed to take these relatives The fringes of society.
00:13:00
Speaker
like the d and t effect you know where it's like these kind of things that you would associateciate with people who are a bit on the more ney side the fringes of society Exactly. And then all of a sudden you are dragging the mainstream into this to say it's cool, it's hip, it's happening. This is why i don't work in PR, but at the same time, it was honestly amazing to see. And see without any further ado, will we just dive into the meat of this episode and just find out what went right with the MCU? Yeah, definitely. Let's jump into this superhero landing. And we'll be right back after these...
00:13:38
Speaker
Oh god, my superhero landing went wrong. Oh, oh, we'll be right back. You gotta bend your knees. Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interest. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept your pain! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, do you know what I'm gonna do? It's the exact thing. He does as well. She had the pointy teeth. What was that about? looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back.
00:14:17
Speaker
she ted them I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. yeah Trousers are for the working man You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
00:14:35
Speaker
Leave the kids. We can now get an audition. That's the worst thing you've ever said in any of the epi episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chatsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:14:58
Speaker
Stay classy and have a better... This has been Chatsunami! I'm sorry, what?
00:15:09
Speaker
Do you have to throw on your favorite true crime podcast before bed in order to fall asleep? Same. And it's the very reason that I created Serial Napper. My name is Nikki Young, and I'm here to lull you to sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares with some of the craziest true crime stories that you've never heard of.
00:15:30
Speaker
Each episode of Serial Napper features a different true crime story told succinctly the way that it happened. Just the facts, ma'am. My focus is on unsolved crimes that need more attention, cold cases, and wrongful convictions.
00:15:45
Speaker
While true crime shows can sometimes be graphic in nature, I ensure that the story is told in a way that is respectful to the victims and their families. Now when it's time for bed, you can look forward to 30 minutes of well-researched and detailed case files while you get your beauty sleep.
00:16:02
Speaker
Find Serial Napper on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Sweet dreams. And we are back. So where better to start than phase one of this iconic... Controversial. Controversial yet iconic cinematic universe, which I have to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, Andrew, but did you ever hear the term cinematic universe before Marvel basically co-opted it? No, it was very much new to me, at least, in that capacity when it was announced the MCU became a thing. i don't even really know when MCU was coined. Like, at what point during the films did we have the MCU, or or at least was that in common parlance? i mean They definitely announced it in 2006, but I don't know if they used the phrase Marvel Cinematic Universe specifically, but there were definitely plans for it and whoever came up with that phrase was an absolute genius because even after After the MCU came to prominence and basically everybody was watching, you had other franchises try to make their own cinematic universe. Like you had the DC cinematic universe. You had the, was Dark Material or something like that? Cinematic Universe. What was the one with the mummy? Tom Cruise. Yeah, it was like the Monsters one. It was like the dark.
00:17:24
Speaker
I don't think it's Dark Materials. That's Phil Pullman, yeah. I was like... I can't be right. Yeah, but there was dark something. Dark universe. Oh, that's lame. Is it dark? No.
Universe Building: Successes and Failures
00:17:35
Speaker
It was a dark universe because they only made one movie. Was it like monster universe? I mean, I've got a picture of Russell Crowe and honestly, I have not been able to unsee this, by the way. See, if you look up the whatever it's called, monster universe, dark universe, there's a group. photo of them when they decided to announce that this was happening and then obviously the mummy reboot just absolutely bombed but there's a photo of all of them including one of russell crowe on the left hand side and it looks like supposed to be he's supposed to be holding a cane that looks like but he's just he's got his hand awkwardly at his side as if you know he's supposed to be holding a chair but then tom cruise was like no i'm holding the chair And I can't unsee it. I think he was like Jekyll and Hyde or something. Yeah, he was. Yeah. There was going Frankenstein, Swamp Creature, Swamp Thing is from DC. DC, yeah. Creature from the Black Lagoon, maybe it was what it was. Good old Swampy. The Invisible Man, I think, was part of it. The Invisible Box Office. Hey!
00:18:34
Speaker
I can see it because they don't exist anymore. It's so interesting that Marvel did start up this whole kind of idea of separate movie entities that would kind of form into one. And you saw that even like Godzilla and King Kong, that giant monster universe, which has its own name, which I can't remember. Oh, yeah. Monster, not Monster Universe. I know exactly what you're talking about. The Monsterverse. Godzillaverse. Kaijuverse, which is, of course, next year. But yeah, don't It is, it's absolutely crazy. And again, I cannot overstate this enough. For the younger Mandalorians who are listening to this, who, you know, might have not grown up during phase one and two, it's weird to think that there are children growing up nowadays that will take this for granted and think, all right, it was always perfect. planned, it was always going to be successful, it was always going to be here. You know, they had that Disney backing. i can't remember when it was, but Disney actually bought Marvel Entertainment, who were the company at the time who oversaw the films, for four billion dollars. I mean, that is no pocket change. That is utter investment that they knew that this was going to be successful, or at the very least, they had an inkling that was going to be successful. And yeah, in phase one, it is absolutely stacked, because we've got films from 2008 all the way through to 2012. And Jesus, I was still in high school when this came out. Of course, so were you, Andrew, you're not that old.
00:19:59
Speaker
But we had Iron Man, we had the Incredible Hulk, we had Iron Man 2, we had Thor, we got the Captain America film, the first Avenger, and then of course it all culminated in the Avengers, which again, cannot overemphasise this, this was a massive, massive gamble, and they pulled it off. Say when you were watching these films at the time, and they said they were building up to the Avengers, did you expect that they were ever going to get to that point? Um, yes. I was so young at the time that I didn't see any reason not to believe that that would be the case. And I was so invested in whatever was coming out. was so excited by anything that could be coming out from this world. Because Iron Man was just so spectacularly cool to me. i got it on DVD after the cinema release. And I must have watched that film at least once every couple of months because I found such an interesting kind of, it was such an interesting point in time that it came out as like a teenage boy. The ACDC, the cars that were involved, the billionaire playboy that he was. i Everyone would to be like, oh, I wish I was Tony Stark. He's so cool kind of thing. Looking back at it now, fighting against the people in the Middle East kind of side of things. Now you're kind like, a bit problematic in some ways. But at the time you were like, yeah, this makes sense.
00:21:14
Speaker
God bless you, Iron Man. Liberating them from these people. it's like, oh. I don't know. I mean, he's probably making amends for being the reason there were so many weapons there. Not like real life. Yeah. Moving on from that controversial statement. Is it the second or the third one that Elon Musk is in? Is he? Yeah, Elon Musk is in one of them. Oh, good. That sounds about right. Yeah, timeline-wise, it makes more sense, probably, because i don't think anyone really knew who Elon Musk was. he was more......prominent. Yeah, people didn't mind him.
00:21:51
Speaker
but Well, he was quite, illegal I mean, going to a tangent, but people quite liked him for the most part initially. i mean, he was in everything at the time. You know, he was in The Simpsons. He was in Rick and Morty. Was he in The Big Bang Theory at one point? Yes? Yeah, probably. honestly wouldn't be surprised. That sounds about right. And everyone would bow down to him and he was like the cool nerd and he was the one who was helping to save the planet. Yeah. I'm glad nothing changed. Yeah, it was a different time.
00:22:24
Speaker
It was a different time. And that's the thing, though, as well. It's like, it is genuinely amazing, even though, i mean, controversial, but I would say not all of the films in Phase 1 were absolute hits. I mean, i'd probably say that maybe Hulk well sorry no there's three films i would in fact that's nearly all of the phase the hulk was okay i would say it wasn't the worst it wasn't the best thor was a bit better i would say iron man 2 maybe was the weakest of phase one i would say because i have to say i love the captain america film and the avengers of course we'll get on to but yeah out of curiosity what's your least favorite sea out of this roster probably either between incredible hulk and iron man 2 i mean that's fair such a weird time where they would release one movie after the other really short period. Iron Man came out and The Incredible Hulk came out like a month later. Just like to today.
00:23:21
Speaker
ah This is the episode of Things That Age Like Milk.
Casting Controversies and What-ifs
00:23:25
Speaker
They brought out Thunderbolts and then brought out Fantastic Four in the space of a couple of months. And I think Captain America Brave New World came out earlier that year. So they brought out three films in the space of six months for each other last year. Okay, that's fair. I mean, did they not have tripled them? Oh, actually, no, that's controversial. That's something we'll be coming on to next week, I think, about where the budget's going. Because actually, speaking of the budget, I don't know if you know this, but apparently, think it was the CEO at the time, Isaac Peabody. I knew he was cut, but couldn't remember why.
00:24:00
Speaker
two phase one one of the most infamous of course being teeddence howbbardt being cut from ironman have you heard about this one i knew he was cut i can remember why i think it was a breakdown in negotiations I remember I don't know if he wanted more money or something like that and again I don't know a hundred percent if this is true but I think Isaac Perlmutter said something very controversial in the lines of nobody cares because they can always find another black actor to replace him which was absolutely the horrific You sure is that not because Terence Howard invented his own maths? His own maths? You don't know about this? Oh, do tell. Okay, so Terence Howard, and it's been referred to as Terryology, he developed a system of logic and physics, where his most famous claim is that $1 times $1 equals $2, based on the premise that multiplying anything by itself without resulting in a change renders the operation meaningless. Okay.
00:24:59
Speaker
but The square root of two loops. Howard has said that the square root of $2 is proof that Stein mathematics and calculations are flawed. points out if you take the square root of $2 and approximately 1.414 qubit divided by 2 and qubit again, you continue to return the initial value, arguing that this cycle indicates that the universe operates in loops rather than straight lines. So he has like a whole bunch of weird stuff with maths and physics that he's decided is his own rules of mathematics, and so people have called it teriology. Honestly, I'm gonna go with column A, column B here.
00:25:29
Speaker
Out of curiosity, do you know who was speculated to play both Captain America and Black Widow in phase one before the cast Scarlett Johansson and Chris Evans? Do you know who was speculated and potentially on the line to play them? Not the same person. I just want to point that Yeah, Angelina Jolie. Hmm.
00:25:47
Speaker
close no okay apparently it was emily blunt for black widow which i find very odd because i don't remember her being i mean scarlett johansson wasn't exactly an action star then either yeah just seems like a very interesting like she's a great actress and she probably could pull it off but just find it like oh yeah at that point because emily blunt has done some action stuff since then i wonder i mean she'd done devil wears prada Oh yeah, that sets her up. you know it's scary? Because I was thinking the exact same thing. been Like, oh yeah, Devil Wears Prada, the cutthroat business of the fashion world. But the other person who was speculated, and I don't know if this was just rumour, speculation, or if it was ever confirmed, and but the other one that came across was Will Smith as Captain in America. Have you ever heard of this one? Would they have made him super jacked? where they made Would they have gotten Will Smith super yoked? Because like it's a big thing for Captain America that he's like absolutely shredded. And Will Smith is he's not not a strong fit guy, but he's not big. I can't see him having the kind of frame that would get big like that. They could probably just pad the shirt. I think he did that for one of the actors, but I can't remember who it was. you remember the really weird CGI they did for Chris Evans for his skinny moments in the original Captain America? Yeah, where it was like a big head and this really tiny disproportionate body. Yeah, it's like Victorian child body. Greetings!
00:27:09
Speaker
I've just come back from the workhouse. It's like, what is going on here? You boy, what day is it? What? it's Christmas Day, sir? Then we still have time to stop Red Skull. Come with me. When is Scrooge getting into the Avengers? That's what I want to know. Oh, the Dickens Cinematic Universe. DCU, yes! Get Hollywood on the line.
00:27:29
Speaker
Mr. Hollywood. Getting over, twisting. Fagin, I'm putting together a team. Yes. Okay, make us happen. The artful Dodger is Nick Fury. Forget the rest of this month, by the way. We're going to put all effort into coming up with the best line-up for the DCU.
00:27:47
Speaker
Oh, anyway, sorry. What about Simba Jr.? I've been trying to push that whole month. We'll do that next season, dang it. I don't know how much I want to do a month ah of it, but we need to do an episode for Simba Jr. Which, for anyone who doesn't know, trust me, in a few months you will.
00:28:04
Speaker
ah ah Until then. ah You will be as obsessed with the Simba Jr. cinematic universe as I am. You're not wrong. Honestly, Mandalorians, I get texts frequently, sometimes in the early hours of the morning, just like, hey, you know about Simba Jr. Lord and Savior Simba Jr. This isn't funny to anyone else who doesn't know about this stupid ass thing. This stupid Italian cartoon from 1989. I'm sorry, everyone. Where was Simba Jr. during the events of the Avengers? When the West was...
00:28:35
Speaker
fell exactly so simba jr no no no simba jr we've moved on andrew let it go let it go much like mufasa let it go come on i know too soon too soon as i said it was just such an interesting period and this is something i was saying to you as well before we started recording about thor that because at the time spider-man was owned by pictures of course and they were supposed to be releasing spider-man 4, which they never did, and it hurts my heart to this day, so they decided, we're going to push up Thor
Strategic Moves: Thor and Guardians
00:29:08
Speaker
to come out. Really? were upset that they didn't release Spider-Man 4? I mean, at the time, no, but looking back on it, it's like, what could have been? I don't know. Funny enough, and I am not joking about this, by the way, think it was last year, the year before, sometime during the lockdowns, there was an account on Twitter that posted behind-the-scenes photos of the props. that they were going to use for Spider-Man 4, including the vulture wings and things. And I thought, wow, that is so cool. Who is this whistleblower that revealed this information? And anyway, it was a guy called Ken Penders. It was Ken Penders? It was Ken Penders, the infamous Sonic guy. Yeah, I'm actually really proud you remember Ken Penders. But yeah, it was him of all people. I was like, even the comments were like, Ken, what are you doing there? Go right about it to kid and his kid.
00:29:57
Speaker
Again, a leap ball knowledge. they are of like What is happening in the world? Oh, COVID broke everybody back then. But yeah, moving on from that, Ken Penders and Simba Jr. Two things that no one else will care about, Buzz. So easy to distract either one of us with either Simba Jr. or Ken Penders. It's like jangling keys nowadays. It's like, yep, yep, look at that. But yeah, of course, then we get to 2012 where we have the finale of Phase 1, which is, of course, The Avengers. I can not remember for the life of me if I went to see this in the cinema. I am 90% sure, but did you see this in the cinema? Oh, hell yeah. Because it came out, I'm pretty sure, in like May of that year. And it's so corny now, but at the time, at the end of our exams in high school, my friends and I would have what we called Big Day Out.
00:30:47
Speaker
And what that was was that we would go to the nearby kind of cinema complex. And there was like a bowling alley there, mini golf place and lots of food options. And so we would like go do bowling, get food and then go to the cinema. And that was the big kind of celebration that the school year was done. and i remember we did that and watched the Avengers. I was like one of the like core memories for me growing up. So like I have such a special place for that movie just from like the whole experience of it as well as how much fun I had watching the film itself. Since I potentially saw it in the cinema, I'm sure I saw it with my friend, but I remember you and I watched it when we first met in uni because it came on TV a year or two after had released. And I just remember watching it and I think that's when you you introduced me to John Marvel. The AMC Cinema Talk. Honestly, it was really cool because i think then that you and I started talking about the different films. And that brings me on to phase two because did you and I go to see any of these films?
00:31:43
Speaker
We must have done. Guardians of the Galaxy, surely. Or The Winter Soldier, one of the two. I feel like there would have been one of these films we did. It would would kind of depend on the time of year, I guess, because during the summer we weren't around each other as much. yeah So I would imagine we probably did. sorry to say i mean, I saw all of these at the cinema. just don't remember if I saw them with you. Yeah, because I definitely saw Guardians, Age of Ultron, and The Winter Soldier. I didn't see Iron Man 3 because attended. heard about the negative things about it, you know, and they all know why, because of the Mandarin twists, because of the jokes, and it's not great. Also, the guy who told you to F off on Twitter, which always laugh at when you remind me of that. Oh, the Team Four Star guy. Yeah. Yeah, him.
00:32:28
Speaker
ke I still can't believe it's when you brought that up I was like yeah no no no you're just joking and you're no I'm deadly serious he told me to F of I'm like oh that colours my opinions on them greatly was saying when Thor the Dark World came out because came out in 2013 so I was in university at the time came out like November 2013 yeah but you and I we friends enough that we were going to the cinema together I can't think we saw The Revenant together when did that come out though don't know
00:33:01
Speaker
That came out 2015. Yeah, well, who we're friends. You had graduated, I think. No, you know, in 2015. after that, yeah. No, but when they first met, I remember the first semester we... I mean, we were talking and everything, getting to know one another, but it wasn't until the second semester that... Like, the end of the first semester into the second. That's what I'm kind of thinking, because we did hang out in the first semester, but I don't think we would have seen the film together. We definitely saw films together, but I genuinely can't remember. With the exception of Iron Man 3 and Thor The Dark World, it's a relatively solid start-up.
00:33:37
Speaker
And there are some really interesting facts about this phase because apparently, and I genuinely didn't know this, that Robert Downey Jr. only had a contract for Iron Man up until Iron Man 3, which I thought, that is one hell. Hell of a gamble they've got going on for Iron Man. But fortunately, he came back and everything. But I think Phase 2 is definitely where they solidified themselves. Because even with Guardians of the Galaxy... And again, i had no idea who the Guardians of the Galaxy were... That was their biggest gamble. Oh, absolutely.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah. For a lot of them, they were pretty unknown, but still had somewhat of like a comic history. Guardians Galaxy was a very niche property. It took some real comic heads that knew about them. Even a lot of people who were like familiar with comic books weren't familiar with Guardians the Galaxy. i remember when it was announced and soon to come out on AMC Movie Talk, they were talking about and how like none of them were familiar with it. And so they had one their friends come in who knew about it. And he was the one that would tell them all about like how cool Rocket Ruck cool was, how cool Groot was, that kind of stuff. I think he even Marvel thought that as well. They were genuinely like, I don't know, guys. As we were saying there, they were genuinely unknown characters. But the gamble paid off. And honestly, i don't know how you feel about it, but personally for me, I would say it's one of my favourite parts of the MCU, next to the Captain America stuff. The Winter Soldier, I think, is a solid film, because even my family, who absolutely... i wouldn't say they hate superhero films, but they're just not a fan of that kind of fantastical genre. But we watched The Winter Soldier together, and they just loved the fact that it was more like a spy thriller. Like the Mancunian kind of thing. Exactly. And I mean, that is one of the strengths about why this whole thing is so popular is because there was such a diversity in terms of the genres that they were putting out. It wasn't just the same, although we'll get to that, it wasn't just the same film over and over and again. They were kind of experimenting with different things. Some worked better than others. You know, with Thor, they had the more mythology. psychological parts in it with iron man it was like the cool bombastic tech captain america was more of the espionage side and it all blended together and then your tale made that the but that's comedy drama and space with guardianss of the galaxy and you're there's no way this is working there is no way and they just blew everybody's socks off What's so interesting with Phase 2 is so many of them felt like really experimental with different kind of properties and different kind of ideas for superhero genre. Like Ant-Man that came out at the end of that phase. Which is so weird. It's a heist movie. It's a superhero heist movie, which is so interesting.
00:36:18
Speaker
I'm not a huge fan of Ant-Man in terms the movie, but I think it's fun, and I think that what they did with it is very interesting. And then you have the spy thriller with Winter Soldier, you have this sci-fi comedy with Guardians the Galaxy, whatever Thor The Dark World was. Yeah, Christopher Eccleston, we love you, but I'm so sorry you had to do Thor The Dark World.
00:36:39
Speaker
Those three films very much showed that they were willing to be a bit more experimental with what they were doing. And I would say like even Ant-Man didn't do as well as the other two, but all three of them were successes, in my opinion. Oh, absolutely. The only one that I would say was a bit of a stumbling block was Proof.
00:36:55
Speaker
probably the second Avengers film, Age of Ultron, which, again, I find it so weird, and I don't know the reason for this, but genuinely find it so weird that they went with Age of Ultron before Ant-Man to finish off Phase 2. They've done that for a couple of the phases where you kind of expect the Avengers film to be the culmination finale to that phase, but then they'll end in a Spider-Man movie or something that. And so instead of finishing with Age of Ultron, they finish with Ant-Man. Because the thing with Age of Ultron, and I feel as this is definitely something we'll be deep diving into next week when we talk about the downfall of the MCU, and trust me, we've got lot to say about that, but I feel as if Age of Ultron was definitely a microcosm
Phase Two Challenges and Innovations
00:37:39
Speaker
of... what was wrong with the MCU, or rather what problems would be amplified in the future. So it's something we haven't really talked about, but one of the things that the MCU really popularised, and obviously it's not the first film to do this, but they popularised the after-credits scenes, where, you know, if you sat long enough in your backside, then you would get a mid-credits scene, where the big bad villain who they were building up would come out the shadows and, you know, they would do the big monologue and then it would cut to black. You're like, oh my God, who is this guy? And then they would have one at the very, very end where it was just a kind of throwaway jokey one. And for Age of Ultron, they kind of ramped it up a bit because was very invested in trying to set up other films and I know why they did it. I know that they have to have a film to set up all the other films coming up and I don't think it's the worst film the MCU's ever put out but it definitely wasn't the strongest and I think as well what didn't help and this is something I was saying to you as well before recording was the press cycle in the UK. Now I don't know how it was in the US if you guys listening in the US or abroad heard about this but there were two particular instances that I remember hearing about and granted I don't know if this particular interview was abroad but they definitely were talking about it here but it was where a female presenter was asking Jeremy Rayner and Chris Evans about the character Black Widow and she asks oh why does this character fall in love with the Hulk which even I was asking that when I was watching the film. I thought, okay, weird choice, but fair enough. But Jeremy Renner said, oh, it's because she's a slut, which caused a reaction from Chris Evans. He started laughing. I don't think it was the worst thing that's ever happened in the MCU, but they definitely went into full-blown damage control to be like, okay, that wasn't acceptable to say. We're very sorry. Kind of glad they did, but at the same time, it's obvious because it's like a company-mandated thing that they've been told. like out there and you say sorry right now like a parent but the other thing that really sticks in my mind and it has been burned into my memory genuinely just youtube it robert downey jr walks out of interview is probably what you can find on but he was doing an interview with a channel over here called channel four and long story short one of the interviewers got the very invasive with his questions, asking about Robert Downey Jr.'s previous drug addictions, asking him, did he feel like a different person when he came out prison? To which, of course, Robert Downey Jr. was like, well, you know, this is a press cycle about a superhero film, can they keep it on topic? And then eventually when the guy kept pressing, he was like, no sorry i'm out and he was very respectful about it but he was just like no i'm not gonna entertain this do you remember this like i wouldn't say it was a full blown oh they were canceling everybody but do you remember this at the time that it was the first time there was a somewhat negative buzz around the mcu i wouldn't say overly but yeah there was a bit of discontent following age of ultron i suppose that started with iron man 3 though I don't know, because I think I'm often in the minority in how much I dislike Iron Man 3. I don't think it was as popular the other kind of films. But like Thor, the Dark World certainly was the start of people being like, these aren't all hits. This one was a bit of a dud. And then the kind of excitement prior to Ultron, because Ultron is one of the serious kind of Avengers villain. The first Avengers film, the villain was Loki. And we already knew about Loki. We'd already dealt with Loki. And Loki isn't really like an Avengers villain. He's a Thor villain. He just kind of got thrown into the Avengers film. bitch go on hit a home run slugger yeah well i mean it was kind of an odd one yeah for him to be the main villain of that film it worked i really love the first avengers movie i think that everything in it's really the whole villain kind of side things is done pretty well yeah but ultron is one of the main avengers today it's Yeah, big threats kind of thing. And so having that kind of hype for that movie and a lot the promotional material for it was really cool and really interesting. The whole Pinocchio that he's like a puppet and there's no strings on him kind of thing. I think James Spader was the voice actor for Ultron. He did a fantastic job. That's one of the real highlights of the movie. But it didn't really live up to the potential I think it could have done. I hope that they're not done with Ultron. Well, they keep bringing them back in the what ifs, don't they? Yes, but I mean, they will eventually kind of exhaust unless they eventually decide to kind of wrap up the MCU or reboot it, which is quite possible. They'll eventually run out of like the main big bads and big threats and kind of stuff that they haven't already kind of covered. So I think Ultron is an obvious one to kind of bring back because for one thing, he can download his conscience and sit hibernating until he's ready to show up and be more a threat again. But the way they used him wasn't terrible. I think that there was certainly an interesting kind aspect to him, but he just didn't pose enough of a threat. was movie, I mentioned The Ultimate Avengers, the main movie earlier that I absolutely adored. And the main threat in those movies was the Chitauri, which was like this alien invasion. But then there was another movie, which I assumed when I was a child, or rather a young teenager, was also kind of part of but realize now that it was completely separate kind of movie and universe. There was The Next Avengers, I think it was called, and it was The Children of the Avengers. Oh. Oh yeah. And most of the Avengers had died facing Ultron and Tony Stark had taken their children up to this like facility in the middle of nowhere hide them and raise them and train them until they're ready. And you saw it showed how big a threat Ultron was that he took out pretty the entire Avengers team. And he was so intimidating this animated film. And so that's kind of what I was expecting saw that prior to Age of Ultron coming out. And when he didn't really pose that much of a threat, that was quite disappointing. Yeah, because they really picked him up, you know, as this all-encompassing villain, and they could have done something really interesting with him, but then they were just like, oh yeah, let's duplicate him, and then make him a big scary bad guy, and it's like, eh. I didn't mind, because I mean, that is what Ultron does. Ultron's thing is that he is infinite. He keeps having multiple versions of himself, but all the versions of himself are those weak little robots that didn't actually do very much. What kind of complicated as well because they wanted to introduce Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver it. Yeah, I know it's confusing because is he not an X-Man, technically? Okay.
00:43:56
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Getting into the weeds now, yeah. So both Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both mutants from the X-Men universe, but because of a certain legal loophole, they are able to be used by both Fox at the time, now owned by Disney anyway, and MCU Disney. That's why they were the only characters that could be used. And I don't think that Fox... ever used Scarlet Witch they just used Quicksilver but they decided to bring them in and Quicksilver is such a fun speedster character which we hadn't had a speedster in the MCU up to that point and so when they killed him off in that movie I was kind of like oh really I love a speedster character they're fun. Yeah you're right it's actually quite funny that we don't have any speedster heroes or anything i know because you've got the Flash in the DC universe and you don't want parallels drawn between them but yeah It's kind of a niche that they haven't tapped into, isn't it Well, in... And I won't blame if you've not actually watched this film. Did you watch Eternals? I know of it. Yeah, okay. I know they are like kind of Dragon Ball characters, essentially. They've got the godlike powers in there. Each of them has their own thing. One of them is kind of like Superman, but one of them is speedster. I don't know any of the names. Don't at me. No, no, no, no. Google it.
00:45:08
Speaker
One of them is a speedster and she uses her speed powers in a really kind of fun, interesting way during this like final battle. And whenever Quicksilver is on screen, i think it's much more interesting in terms of how they use speed powers as opposed like how you've seen the Flash use it in a lot DC
Iconic Scenes and Villains
00:45:24
Speaker
stuff. The Fox, X-Men, use of Quicksilver was the most fun. don't know if you remember, i think we went to the cinema and saw that one together where Quicksilver essentially like pauses time and playing his music. don't quite understand. He must play his music on a million times speed or something like that so that he could hear it while time has slowed down. Do you know how I remember we 100% saw that film? Because I remember at the very beginning where it's like the dystopian war-torn rubble and I just leaned over to you and said, Present day Detroit. Present day Detroit.
00:45:55
Speaker
i we are the but I mean, we must have looked like psychos, all these people getting gunned down. It's like, haha, it's Detroit. Oh, dear. Sorry, Detroit. Yeah, sorry. We love you, Rolly. But I've asked my American friends and they've said it's okay. I have such a nostalgia for Captain America the first Avenger. went to go see that with my brother in the cinema and we were cackling at making fun of the different scenes in the movie because throughout the movie he keeps talking about like how he's from Queens or it's Queens he's from and or like the Bronx or whatever. Is it Brooklyn? No. Is it Brooklyn? It's some borough of New York arc that he's from and he keeps referencing this and then towards the end of the film they get this Hydra airship that has all these bombs labeled with like different cities. I later my brother just said like one of them just has Brooklyn on it. specifically his place we were dying laughing and then he wakes up present day and like nick fury's there and i like was like good thing he's not a giant racist from the 1940s but yeah after we got to the end of the second phase which as i said kind of mixed reviews but still very positive at the time we got an announcement in 2015 which was very fascinating that spider-man would be returning I have to say, and again, you can listen to our Spider-Man in the MCU episode for this one, but I would say that it was interesting how people were reacting to it because we had the conversations about Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man, then had the conversation about Andrew Garfield and his less than stellar 2014 outing with The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and then we were getting a brand new Spider-Man um two years later, and it was too soon. And of course, we got the...
00:47:35
Speaker
preview for it let him breathe of a gwen for just a little bit longer his webs are still warm yeah you're not wrong because still it was interesting and i remember people being again it's the internet they're always going to be mad about something but i wouldn't say people were overly hyped about it like they were hyped about spider-man coming back like but the only clip we literally got before phase three kicked off and captain america civil war which i always think this is an avengers film whenever i read captain america civil war i'm like really it's not an avengers film because it feels more of an avengers film than it does a captain america but of course we got that one clip where he steals cap shield and everything literally all he says it's tom holland saying hey everyone I was trying to remember, did we know that Spider-Man was going to be in it prior to the film? I mean, they release released the teaser for him. Oh, maybe in the trailer we did see that, that was big hype moment there. Yeah, I can't remember when right enough, but we definitely got that clip of him saying, hey, everybody. im Imagine should someone starting a conversation like, hey, everybody. You know, couldn't be me. Hello, everybody. Anyway.
00:48:44
Speaker
But it was interesting to see what they were going to do with this character. And again, they've got mixed opinions. He's a good enough Spider-Man, I think. But yeah, how did you feel? See, going into phase three, because genuinely this is a shunky phase. We've got Captain America Civil War, Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, which I will admit I only watched a couple of weeks ago. really? don't like that. I would say good, but it genuinely wasn't as strong as the first one. And I think people will say, oh, the third one's better. Have you seen the third one yet? Yeah, I've seen the third one, but I think that's because animal manipulation. No, no, no, no. mean, the puppy dog eyes from a raccoon. Come on now. Yes, that does get you in the feels. However, I do genuinely think it was far better. The third was far better than the second one. And I do think The Guardians 3 is one of the best Marvel films for the last five or so years. I've got a bit of bias as well, because you know the Soviet dog that follows them around? Yes. With the psychic powers? She looks very much like my dog. And I genuinely, I think I send you pictures being like, oh my god, did Marvel take my dog in front of me? while or something because it's like a bigger version and i was like oh it's very scary luna's a very space-like name so true very true looping back quickly onto guardians 2 though i did skip through a wee bit because it was plodding see that whole scene where it's like groots trying to find the key and it's like the first time or two it's like oh haha but then it's like okay this could have genuinely been cut down that could have been an email that scene but then immediately after that But you're not wrong about the schedule. Jesus, these came out one after the other. Literally two months after Guardians of the Galaxy 2, we got Spider-Man Homecoming.
00:50:32
Speaker
i mean it's all right it's good but it's all right isn't it i mean we've got a whole episode on this but it's okay i like it yeah i like it i think it's all right it's the best spider-man film we've gotten outside of baby spider-man 2 moving on we've got thor ragnarok as well which i have very mixed feelings about thor ragnarok because because you hate taika watini i don't like him sorry i just i find if you inflate his ego even a tiny bit he will take that running and we get thor love and thunder which trust me i'll save for next time but ragnarok i did actually like i like the idea that they were taking thor from kind of serious character to a more comedic character but they definitely flanderized them immediately after ragnarok they just made him except for infinity war and end game they definitely flanderized them Yeah, what are your thoughts on Ragnarok just before we go on? Because I'm quite curious. I love Thor Ragnarok. I think it's the best Thor movie. I remember at the time watching it and thinking it was one of the funniest Marvel movies I'd seen. I think I watched this on a plane. That's got no bearing on your opinion. Yeah, was just going to say. I just clicked when I was like, when did I see this? Oh yeah, when I was on a plane. I definitely saw it at the cinema. I just don't remember when. I actually think I saw this the first time I went over to China.
00:51:50
Speaker
Because I was like really surprised. Is Thor Ragnarok not out? You don't see that as much at the moment, but i remember years ago, sometimes I get on a plane, I would have movies that are still out at the cinema, and I'd be like, how do they have this? So yeah, I remember watching some very up-to-date movies when I would fly, that we're talking 10 years ago now, but still. I mean, even when my partner and I, we went over to China last year, time is a flat circle, yeah, it was last year when we did the five-year anniversary, and I was looking at the films, and don't get me wrong, there were some relatively up-to-date ones, but yeah, it was mainly the classics. I mean, they had Lord of the Rings, they had War of the Rahiram of all things. I was like, oh hell yeah, I'm putting War of the Rahiram again. Nice. And Aliens 2, which is fantastic. We need to have an Aliens month at some point. So, so good. But anyway, going back to the MCU. Yeah, then had Black Panther the year after, what
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah, that was a good film. And then we got into these, were like, the big, big ones. And that's something that we haven't really mentioned in this episode yet, but this whole phase one to three was known as the Infinity Saga.
00:52:56
Speaker
And it focused around, basically, throughout the films, there was a different type of thing called an Infinity Stone. Long story short, each one has different powers, like Captain Planet. LAUGHTER Okay, maybe not that extreme, but they had different powers and this alien called Thanos wanted them. That was the thing as well. It was something that we made mentioned at the beginning of the episode. I had no idea who Thanos was and I don't think any of my friends knew either. Nobody knew and yet somehow they took him from, all right, this weird purple guy who's at the end of all of these MCU films to all of a sudden, see pop culture wise, would you say all of a sudden he is really well known in terms Oh, yeah. References and memes and stuff that are very much in kind of common... Verbiage. Yeah, I was going to say parlance again. I feel like I've already used that one. I think you like you can only say parlance once in a podcast episode. Oh no, i need to make some calls. There's a limit. Yeah. Cultural Zeitgeist certainly has, like, Thanos is a much more prominent person in media now. When the first Avengers film came out, and there wass that end credit scene where it's like, I'll do it myself, kind of thing, and like, Thanos on his throne. There was definitely a lot of people, even who were like, semi-familiar with comics, who were like, who? But I mean, he is a well-known Avengers villain and threat, just I wasn't familiar enough with Marvel stuff to know who he was. I had to look up after watching that movie who the hell he was, and then I then was very familiar afterwards, but... now I would say people know him as one of the biggest villains in media history. i have to say, out of context, and I can't remember what cartoon it was, but it was one of the Avengers ones where they fight Thanos. With Thanos Copter? No, no, but I'm going ask you that after the episode because that sounds very fascinating. But no, there's one where it's like he's got the time stone. And he's making of the Avengers old till they crumble to dust. And he even gets the Hulk. He has to blast him a couple of times. But then he blasts Thor. And Thor's like, you do realize that making gods older only makes them stronger. And he beats the shit.
00:54:52
Speaker
Thanos so much so that he has to reverse the time thing which then of course brings back the Avengers I just find that so funny I was just like okay that is so cool but also very funny there's finishing stuff with Thor they've not done yet because there's like old man Thor is like a really cool strong Thor and then there's Rune Master Thor or something I can't remember who he's called exactly. God Ruin Thor or something. Supposed to be him in his most powerful state. So I'd be interested see if we get to that at any point in the future of the MCU because Chris Hemsworth's Thor I don't think has much left in it. I think Chris Hemsworth wants to kind of leave the character before long so they'll either have to recast or reboot the Thor character. To be honest, they could do a Doctor Who thing and happen with lightning and oh, I've changed face and... I'm now Liam Hemsworth.
00:55:36
Speaker
Oh, damn it! Oh, sorry. Odin, damn it. The witch are all over again. Oh, God. Don't remind me. He just turns into Henry Cavill. It's like, hmm. I don't know how to feel about this. I'm going to be honest. But yeah, speaking of surprises, let's just say, yeah, we get to Infinity War in 2018, where, can I confess something quite possibly one of the worst things I'll ever say in this podcast? I never watched Infinity War when it came out. was going say, have you seen it now? Oh, yeah, yeah. I watched them during the lockdowns, because I remember I texted you, there's a scene in it where, i think it's Wanda and Vision, they're walking up Edinburgh.
00:56:16
Speaker
Oh yeah. It didn't click with me, I was like, alright, they're in a street, it's a cobbled street, what's new? And I saw in the background... They were in like Waverly train station. All I know is it was on STV News. We're really raving about it being like, the Avengers is filming here. But what I noticed in the background is a sign right behind him on the window saying, we'll deep fry anything with a big Scottish flag at the back of it. Amazing. That's what was like. was like, wait a minute, we're in Scotland. was like, oh my god, they're in Scotland. And I was texting you and you're like, Satsui, have you seen this film before? I'm like, nope. That's why I'm so excited. But in a way, I'm a little bit sad in the first film in the cinema. And I know they're bringing it back technically, but I was a bit disappointed because Infinity War, personally, to me, I would say it's probably one of, if not the... the best film in this entire saga. I would say it's better than Endgame personally. Not that I would say Endgame's a bad film. I think it's just too clunky for its own boots. Endgame was alright, but Infinity War was definitely the stronger of the two. And between them, it's weird because this was genuinely such a... How to describe it? It was just... was such a mammoth event with both Infinity War and Endgame and the whole don't spoil the film kind of thing, wasn't it? Yeah, for sure. mean, there was very key moments in both films that were very much like a don't spoil that kind of moment. And was interesting because there was very few films like this from the MCU where you had such like a cliffhanger ending that kind of left you going like, oh, when's the next one to come out? I'm so excited for the next one. Obviously, you were kind of left of these Marvel movies interested what was going happen next. But the way that it ended in such kind of like a we were defeated way that you kind of were like, well, what's to happen now was so interesting. No, absolutely. And yeah, I remember watching back to back. I watched Infinity War, I watched Endgame, and it was just, it was amazing to see it all play out. Ant-Man and the Wasp and Captain Marvel, I feel as especially Captain Marvel, I am so sick of seeing people who hate the MCU. And I mean, you can dislike the MCU for valid reasons, but see people who use Captain Marvel in their thumbnails and things to say the MCU is dying. Please, for the love of God, get a proper job. It was such an okay film. don't think it was one of the best films in Marvel, but it wasn't nearly as bad as people who were hating on Marvel and hating on particular group of people. Yeah, well, exactly. The way that they were responding to that. I had a lot of fun watching that film. And be honest, when in the... more recent phase, like The Marvels, I really enjoyed that one too. That one got loads of hate on it and didn't do very well, but people have their own agendas and you're welcome to have an opinion on a movie, but I just feel like lot of people have their opinion for the wrong reason, you know mean. no, 100%. And after Endgame, again, it's another weird thing where from phase two, you know, we had Ant-Man to finish it off, and phase three, we had Spider-Man Far From Home, which have to say was a decent film, but the one thing that really stood out to me was the advertising, which I genuinely think is one of the dumbest things ever, because were advertising it obviously before Endgame or during Endgame, and... They were saying, oh, by the way, this trailer for Spider-Man Far From Home has a spoiler for Endgame, so don't watch it. And I kid you not, the first five seconds, they just spoil the whole thing. They're like, oh, so-and-so's dead. And you're like, oh, wow, you couldn't even wait five seconds. I didn't remember that. Tom Holland was at the very beginning of the trailer as himself, and he's like, hey, guys, there's going to be a spoiler at the beginning, so don't watch this if you haven't watched Endgame. And I thought, it's fine. You know, how bad can it be? And he's dead! Oh my god. Oh, I see. So after the movie had already come out cinemas, they didn't know I got dead. It was either after or literally just as it was out, because I think they were really holding back advertising Spider-Man Far From Home and everything. Such a key part of it. Exactly, yeah. It was about Tony Stark. Yeah, exactly. Oh, well, you spoiled it now.
01:00:12
Speaker
Oh wow, I'm sorry. But see overall, as a kind of wrapping up point, because we've talked about phases one through three, and genuinely it is amazing how it all came together, because they proved that they knew how to generate hype, whether that was through Comic-Con, whether that was through trailers, because even the Ant-Man one that was really cute, they had like a trailer, I think it was for the Ant-Man and the Wasp, they had an ant-sized trailer at one of the Comic-Cons before they blew it up the day after and showed everyone that really really funny. You know, it showed that, and again, not to get too sappy, there was like a hero for everyone. There was constant payoffs, even though there was a few guff films we managed to get, really cool ones. And they managed to introduce something that was initially considered a geeky topic.
01:00:59
Speaker
or not geeky topic but a geeky fandom and everything and don't get me wrong it still is a geeky fandom but they have managed to popularize it and put it in the mainstream not to mention of course all these spectacular stan lee cameos which they brought out in this phase which i actually can't remember when the last stan lee cameo was captain marvel was it captain marvel no that's sorry that's not true the last one he filmed was captain marvel but the last one he was in was endgame Oh, of course. Because he he was the delivery man in Endgame for Mist Stunk, or whatever it was. Oh, of course, yeah. And honestly, I feel as if that was, again, I don't want to be too bad and say that's when things started to go downhill, but yeah, before we wrap up, what are your final thoughts, see, about this whole saga? Yeah, I mean, it was such an interesting kind of time in history for comic book and movies from the media landscape where you had this kind of huge culmination of stories and characters coming together. They kind of ended with this. So that was a really kind of unique part of movies, but it was absolutely fantastic kind of being a part of that. No, absolutely. Yeah, unfortunately, the good faith of the Infinity Saga in phases one through three, despite proving that they could do this, yeah, that started to fall by the wayside when we got into what is aptly dubbed the Multiverse Saga, which, of course, we will be deep diving into next week. But until then, true believers,
01:02:22
Speaker
Excelsior! And especially you, Andrew. Thank you so, so much for joining me and talking about the rise of the MCU. No, thank you so much for having me. It was really, really fun to get into that. So if you guys would like to listen to more episodes of Marvel Month, as well as other episodes that we've done together then you can check us out at our website chatsthanami.com as well as all good podcast apps i also want to give a huge shout out to our pandalorian patrons robotic battle toaster ghost state and cryptic 1991 thank you so so much for the support and if you would like early access to episodes, exclusive content, commentary tracks, all the juicy content, then you can check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami. This podcast is a proud member of the Popat Collective. For more information, check us out at Twitter slash X page at Popat Collect. But until next time, thank you all so, so much for listening. Stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated. Sigh.
01:03:19
Speaker
You know, Andrew, that episode actually actually wasn't half bad. And here I thought we needed two episodes to discuss the rest of the MCU. Oh god, no. Can you imagine? i think if we keep this up all month, then we should be good as gold. Now, let me just sit down, have some shwarma, and...
01:03:39
Speaker
I think we're gonna need another episode.