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WCAD 3-23: Glória For Spain and Argentina
86 Plays11 months ago
Austin and Amit close out their Summer (Winter for Austin) of Soccer, breaking down the Euro and Copa América Finals. Why Southgate should go, what Spain did right, and why Argentina are (still) the best team in the World.
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Transcript
Post-Tournament Reflections
00:00:01
Speaker
It almost feels like a bit two years ago, a year and a half ago, we got a little bit spoiled with the major tournament final that we saw with France three, Argentina three, penalties and all that good stuff. But that said, what we saw yesterday was still pretty good. And as far as major tournament finals are concerned, I think we got too passable to exciting major tournament finals. Definitely. Both were exciting. Passible and quality share for both as well. um It's fun. These were good finals befitting of two really good tournaments and a great summer of soccer here, winter for you. I'm excited to talk about them. it was a I'm feeling a little bit of the the sadness the day after ah the tournaments and having them gone. But we get to recap it one more time and live through two passable, exciting finals, as you said.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's tough because you can't you can't turn on the TV this morning and like Georgia Czech Republic isn't popping on. like There's no Romania to to to get you through the day. It's a different vibe. It's it's July 15th, right? It's what July 15th is all about. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's fun. It's gonna be a while until we get as good of international soccer again, but that's why this podcast is
Euro Finals: Spain vs. England Analysis
00:01:17
Speaker
here. We love we love the international soccer. This is the World Cup After Dark podcast. My name is Austin Miller. He is a bit malloc. On today's show, we'll break down those two major, major, major, major tournament finals we saw yesterday. Spain topping England in the Euro. Argentina topping Colombia in the Cup of America. Let's go to the Euro final in it. Spain two.
00:01:36
Speaker
England won. What's your big overarching headline takeaway from this game, from this tournament, from Spain's performance? Spain were the best team here, and they were the best team because they had more quality everywhere on the field. And yes, their star players changed the way they played. But at the end of the day, it was contributions from everyone on who stepped on the field. And they had more quality everywhere. And I think what will be interesting in this podcast is I don't want to say it's too much of a referendum on the way they play. But that's a very that's the interesting discussion to have. And I think you know what the discourse is already. We we can discuss that.
00:02:21
Speaker
But at the end of the day, they had enough quality to back it up. And that's where that's the rubber meets the road right there. And the goals are emblematic of that. So that's the biggest the the biggest takeaway. Spain were really, really good. And I think how often does the best team win the tournament? It's it's and and oh so overwhelmingly so the way Spain was. Well, and the thing was, every game Spain played at the Euro, they won. I mean, you can't really knock them out as being champions when when that's the case, right? 100%. And that's where that's where this was this was super impressive. And it's you know only 12 years ago, they had just capped off another generational run. Spain are real good at this. Yeah. And what's coming next for Spain will be really interesting. We'll get into all that on the show here. Let's talk about the game itself here.
00:03:14
Speaker
um England approached this like you would have expected England to approach this. I think Spain approached this like we would have expected them to to approach this. um A wild Luke Shaw popped up in the lineup for England. He finally got healthy enough to play and he made them better. Yeah, he just gave them a little more going forward than Trippier. I know he doesn't look 100% fit. He isn't 100% fit. But even in his body state, he's more athletic than Kieran Trippier. He always has been. In his prime, which he's not in his prime, he's a pacey up and down wingback that can dribble.
00:03:51
Speaker
Trippier as a passer. You saw him get up and down the left flank, and then you saw him stand up to La Minha Mall pretty well. And so that was a big boost for England, and that kind of erased the biggest mismatch coming into the game. So from there, it was better for England. But even that you know little wrinkle aside, this was being played the way we thought it was going to be. Played Spain with the ball, trying to pro for openings. England trying to opportunistically find areas to counter the other way. The first half of this match fell into
Spain's Tactical Mastery
00:04:24
Speaker
that pattern. I think Spain had a pretty good opening 15 minutes in which they saw a lot of the ball, didn't do a whole lot with it, but were on the ball a ton and kind of sent England a warning sign of, look, if you let them touch the ball for three minutes consecutively, problems are gonna happen. That said, there wasn't a ton created from Spain and there was even less from England. This first half was very major tournament finally, and I think both teams played it.
00:04:47
Speaker
with the understanding that 120 minutes here were likely, even if that's not what came to pass in the second half. Yeah, the respect was from Southgate. He really wanted to set up shop in his box and deny Spain. And Spain had the right ideas. You know, I think they saw Luke Shaw and they were like, OK, we will figure that out. But most of it was through Nico Williams on the left side going at Kyle Walker. And they moved the they moved the players around a little bit. They kept attacking. But they were content with the field position battle. And after 15 minutes, I think england England just survived those. And then it really kind of settled down a bit after that. And so we got a little bit of a quiet 30 minutes ish in this first half. But um yeah, I think England was happy with it, even though it was kind of being taken to them.
00:05:37
Speaker
And then things change when the second half starts. Firstly, because Rodri gets forced off for Spain, it felt like this was going to be a big moment in this match. I think it probably ended up playing a role in the goal that England scored. But at the end of the day, Spain got through losing one of their best players and by far their best midfielder. That was a big recovery for them. Yeah, I i was really impressed um with how they responded to it because he is at this point I think you could just clearly say the best midfielder in the world. There's not really any like ah way around that. and This is like the Spain story that we opened up with is the quality in the squad.
00:06:17
Speaker
um who who comes in, Zubamendi. He's a solid La Liga center defensive midfielder. and You could tell they were missing him, but they just, as this game goes on, they just keep bringing on these La Liga central midfielders and they just are all good at everything. and that like and you know Who saved their early in this tournament? ah Red Bull, but it's been Another central midfielder. These aren't your top, Atletico, Real Madrid, Barcelona guys. This is all of Spain's midfield development just being so good.
00:06:53
Speaker
Duimendi was fine. um And I do think, as you said, you saw that, you know, the absence of Roger in the goal, but they just kept going forward and running forward. And that's how the goals, the more important goal, the second one worked as well. So the first goal for Spain here, they got into space. LaVigna Mall does really well on the right side. And then there's really great intricate play where the initial late runner from Spain into the box, I believe it was Danny Omo on this play, occupies Kyle Walker, who makes a run to double up on the Danny Omo run. And it's the later run, right? We talked about late runners. It was the later runner here that had the effect for Spain. And it's Nika Williams,
00:07:35
Speaker
in so much space on the far side. Great pass from you all. And Williams, tight angle, but lots of space on his shot. No doubt about it. It's 1-0. It was very clear that Spain wanted to attack the fullbacks, and that's what they were able to do, and particularly Kyle Walker. It felt like that was where they felt they would have the most joy against England. That's what happened on the opening goal. 100%, and Kyle Walker is very good fullback in some ways, very, very fast, physically can match up anywhere in the world. But because he's so fast, he lets his positional awareness, you know, get away from him. And he plays for Man City and Pep Guardiola, where he has a lot of great players to cover for him. Okay, now you have John Stones, sure, but you've got Mark Gehie, and this is a different England team.
00:08:20
Speaker
They just picked on him. Williams picked on him all game. And he was at fault on both goals, and especially this one. um But in general, this was a textbook Spain goal. If they if you they you asked them to show you how they would carve up an England defense with a moment of space, it would look like this. And it was sprung by Danny Carvajal with a little outside the boot pass to Yamal as well. like There's just quality everywhere. This was good. getting Carvajal back in this game, we'll get to the second goal in a bit, was a big, big win for Spain because he really was able to contribute things going forward that they didn't have in that semi-final.
00:08:56
Speaker
hundred percent and Danny Carvajal holds his own defensively. He is one weak link the other way, but offensively, he's still at this age. There's a reason why he still starts from Madrid. He's one of the most ah talented attacking fullbacks of the generation, right? like there's There's no way around that. and it's It's so evident in this Spain team too. like They need his progression to get it to those wingers, and he does it all the time. He's so good. So after the Spain goal, we see what we saw a lot in this tournament, particularly in the knockout stage. England down a goal, get forced into changes that kind of make them
England's Tactical Adjustments
00:09:32
Speaker
better. Harry Kane, who I don't think had a very good tournament here, goes off. Ollie Watkins comes on. Cole Palmer comes on. England, like they did in pretty much every single knockout round, a mitt got better once they went down a goal.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's at some point. It was like, well, it's flukey. They keep doing this. But at a certain sense, I think Southgate, when forced to come up with something, then he shows you his answers, um which is always frustrating why he doesn't show you more before that. Yeah. But I think the. for later for Southgate, but the some of the issues are with his lineup selection and overall mentality towards big games. In Game Manager, he's very good. And as a bummer as it is that like Harry Kane wasn't this way, it's the right thing to do to get him off. And he always brings in Cole Palmer. And like very interesting question. Is Southgate good for like making these changes, or is he bad for not starting those guys?
00:10:28
Speaker
ah that one we don't know because he never started the guys right we don't we don't know but like yeah Cole Palmer is really good um Ollie Watkins runs and is very good I mean what what can you say Cole Palmer is amazing player this was a great goal by him. It was a great goal by Jude Bellingham. And I think in the game states where England is chasing, it allows their star players to just have more moments to figure out things out of nothing just by giving them more of the ball. And that's where it's frustrating that he doesn't do that earlier. But that's why I think they're so good when they go down.
00:11:02
Speaker
And so we saw, like we did so many times in this tournament, England, down a goal, makes the opportunity kind of out of superstar players doing superstar things. And that's what happens here. Jude Bellingham holds it up, lays it back. Cole Palmer, a tricky shot from distance, finds the corner. It's 1-1. This was how England played when they got down a goal. They said to their best players, they pointed at them and they said, hey, go do best player things. And time in, time out, they did it. Yeah, and it it got them. We know how this game ends. It got them really close. They came back from a goal against Spain. Spain not so good at seeing out leads. And I think some of this second half is Spain had some chances to get to get to. And they didn't. They almost regretted it. But
00:11:49
Speaker
That's what England do well, like you said. I mean, going from there, then it was like, wow, the whole game has changed. England subs came in, they're fresher, they're energy, the crowd was singing. They should have gotten their go ahead goal. And then confoundingly, they kind of let the game resettle to neutral. Like, that was the most frustrating part of all this from the England point of view. There was a three to five minute stretch after England's score where they were on top and it almost looked like they were going for it. Like as much as we'd seen England going for it in a neutral game state, they did it. And they almost kind of created a couple chances and it really felt like, Oh, they might get the two one here. And then that's exactly where they want to be. They shut it up. They see this out and they're lifting the trophy.
00:12:33
Speaker
They didn't do it in that short stretch. And then, as you said, this game reverted back to where we were earlier in this match, which was Spain with the ball looking to exploit space. England looking to go forward. It kind of got a bit more back and forth because it was a bit more open. And that's where Spain pounced because once that game opened up a little bit, they got their foothold after that ah initial England surge and they pressed and it was Danny Carville hole in a ton of space. Crossing the ball in and the substitute or your thaw ball, just like we all expected and drew it up, beating his marker to the spot, getting to the ball first and putting it in the back of the net. This was also a quintessential Spain goal for how they played in this tournament.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, we just saw, you know, these, these midfielders or your thaw ball, uh, uh, Zubamendi, Marino, remember who had the header against Germany. They just find these not fine. These are really good players and they're just speaking to the quality of Spain's development of La Liga of Rioso Ciudad. Um, also Bill bow, like the Williams, like. it They basically were other teams were like, okay, we go mixer ball. We get on a big striker. They went, we're going to play an attacking midfielder as a false nine. And he's still good enough to make runs and finish. And that's what you're out there. That's a tough one.
00:13:56
Speaker
or your thought or your thar ball did. hey And Kyle Walker again, I thought when this pass gets sprayed out to the wing before the cross that he's going to get there. And he just is a step late. And I think the whole defense was a step behind. And this is what hurt England in when Garrett Southgate hasn't set up so structurally well defensively, they're great. In two moments of transition, they were What a step slow, a step looked, a step in experience. You saw the lack of chemistry between Stones, Walker, Gehi, who we just knew also that was going to be an area for England this whole tournament. And Spain's midfielders, and I said this in Germany, the do it all midfielders did it all. Again, like these are guys doing things that you don't expect midfielders to do. And Spain can get away with that.
00:14:45
Speaker
more than anyone else and that's what this goal was it was it was brilliant it was befitting of of Spain and hurt really really really hurt for England I mean that Walker has to be there I don't know what to say you can't let a false nine midfielder get across you if you're a center back and I know that the legs are tired and the focus goes that's what You know, Landa Donovan was saying on the Fox broadcast, but like it's a major tournament final. Yeah, you can't have defensive lapses. You got to force the team to beat you with something hard. These are two goals that Spain may look easy. And this was oh so close. We got that that UEFA automated review and it was tight. I'm glad that it obviously I'm glad that it was on site because it meant that England law but like it was such a good run, in such a good play, you wouldn't want it to be chopped off for just a sliver, like it it had the potential of being so so good that it was onside and look, that technology seems to kind of work. So from there, i admit there's not a lot of time left. England have to go mix your ball, but it always feels like in these major tournaments and and in these major big games, when somebody goes all out, mix your ball and just chucks it in there and sees what happens, there's always one chance for somebody.
00:15:53
Speaker
and generally it doesn't find the back of the net and England got that chance scramble situation ball comes in and they get headers to it and they put it on goal twice and it's first Simone who makes a decent enough save but puts it right back into danger and it comes back in and it's Danny Olmo doing everything on the line clearing this away and then the the last header goes over the bar This is the type of chance that, look, and this sort of game, it's got to be in the back of the net, and Spain somehow survived this. Just madness, I mean that's...
00:16:29
Speaker
you You take everything you think and you throw it out the window. It's just Danny Omo, right place, right time. As you said, the Spain do it all, midfielders. Danny Omo did it all again. Here he is on the back line. That's not a defender. And that's just, I mean, you could say, we could say like, oh wow, every player on Spain has positional awareness to like clear the ball off the line. And also like, man, boy, he was in the right spot at the right time. And that just, that's sometimes just how it goes. and When you win a major tournament, you sometimes need that sort of stuff to happen, right? Yeah, that's how you, yeah, you need a little bit of luck. And England also needed like, ah, that's, this is such like the perfect chance down to one and like the last dying throws. That, that was a moment moment, capital M moment. and
00:17:16
Speaker
wow for spades seriously wow like everyone's gas everyone's breath is stolen no matter what i don't care what you're who you're rooting for what you want like you're just in that moment that's pure international term there's like it felt like those clearances were in the air for forever so like simone makes the initial save parries it back and're like oh no that's dangerous and it comes back he's like oh man daniel will clear it and then it's like oh no there's gonna be another chance And i I think it was Stones who got the header on. I'm not 100% sure. Gets the header on it, and it's like that like that looping, like no power behind it header. It's like, oh, that might just nestle. Oh, it went over. And then it's just like, absolute death. like
00:17:57
Speaker
ah Like, the the final whistle for England, man. They've been doing it for the past couple of years, and it's just like they've gotten so close, and they just haven't gotten it done. And that was exactly the reaction we saw here. Despair. yeah that's the thats That's where you find, that's the word shown plainly in emotion. That's despair. Ah, what a great, I mean, yeah, truly what a great game. And Spain deserved it, 100%. Spain were the best better team in this game. They were the better best team the whole tournament. And even then, I think you saw that England could have won this game. There were paths for them to win this game.
00:18:38
Speaker
but Spain were better. And I love to see what this game looked like in extra time, but the goal, the second goal was worthy of a team that didn't want to go to extra time. And knew that penalties were probably a dangerous proposition. Yeah. And the saved goal was also like England gave that a plus even with five minutes to to try to steal it too. Like, in it The way this game shook out was like I think both teams played close to their best game they could have played. You can quibble with England, we can quibble with Southgate, we can do that a million times, but I think they'd take this game script. I think they'd take 1-1 with 15 minutes to go. yeahp I think they'd take the header that they got, even down 2-1.
00:19:28
Speaker
this This was, they were so close to this. um Margins, that's international football, right? Like that's always, like, this is always going to come down to those types of situations. These teams are, they're too good for it for it to really be anything else when it when it gets to this sort of stage. Big picture look here at Spain. I mean, they're really good and they might be really good for a while. This might be another run of of Spain being a very, very powerful international side. Yeah, they did this without Gavi and Pedri. They're two Barcelona Starboys in the midfield. Nico Williams and Yamal are young. I mean, Williams is 22, Yamal is 17. Yeah, Rodgeri's in his prime. like theyve you know i They've Danny Carvajal's getting a little bit older. I see here you say, we need ah we need a better striker. And I don't know what you
00:20:18
Speaker
you know, alva Alvaro Morata didn't do anything this tournament, but he's certainly a solid striker. I think he's, you know, on the slightly wrong side of the striker Asian curve, but still be post prime ish in 26. But I mean, it's like you looked at that generation in 2008, 10, 12, how come they get to do this again? countries got to be looking at this to be like, that's not fair. And that's where you like, that's where you go to what we said at the very start of this term, when you're England or you're France. You've got to win your windows when you've got the best talent and credit to Spain for even getting one early in the window. We don't know Spain are going to be the best team in the world for the next two, four, six, eight years, but doesn't it look like it? That's what everyone's saying.
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, and and they are far and away the deserved winners here. The first side to win every single match at a Euro, their record-breaking goal scores, they're well deserving of this title. And like you said, to open up the window like this, like this felt like this was the first turn major tournament that Spain was going to where like, okay, well you know We had them peg kind of in that second tier of challengers. I think it's very clear they've moved up to that first tier and now that they've already got a major tournament under their belt and and on their on their resume, yikes, dangerous, dangerous going forward. ah Let's talk England a minute because we have to talk England. um They did what they always did and it fell short. like it It's always done.
00:21:41
Speaker
like I don't know what the but the big takeaway here is for England, because they are as good as they have ever been, and they still can't win a major tournament. Yeah. i I think if you're an England fan, if you're Southgate, if anything, you're just kind of grasping, clutching at straws. Like, what do you have to do? And they were the worst team in this game on paper, yeah so they lost. So like maybe i'm I'm not saying that like blunt like stems the
00:22:12
Speaker
the the feeling like that that's the regret. But like, I think this outcome from like at the start of the tournament, like get to the final and lose to the team that played the best is a perfectly acceptable outcome for England. But when the goal is to win, yeah, I mean, you didn't win.
Gareth Southgate's Future: Continue or Change?
00:22:31
Speaker
what What's it going to take? And i I'm not sure. I'm not sure what um they can do. I mean, I think we're going to, let's talk about the manager part. That could be different. Right. So that's so that yeah so that's the the big question here. It's it's Gary Southgate. A lot of reports today, some saying he's gone, some saying that the Federation wants him to stay, but he doesn't. um I think it seems pretty clear that this is the end of of a cycle here.
00:22:56
Speaker
I don't think you can reasonably just run it back and think that it's going to be different. Like you're kind of out of times for running it back and thinking it's going to be different this time. He was incredibly successful in what he did with this team. And at the same time, it's fair to say you just got to try something different. And that's like the whole thesis of international football, the vibes. You just got to change them. You can't just keep rolling out the same vibes. And could he do this exact same thing again for sure? Could he win for sure? but he had four times and it didn't happen. So like someone else can try. And that's where like, I'm not so sure a different manager, even if you put the best manager in the world, whatever you think that is in charge of this team, they could get to a final and lose a close game. Like, but the process is that we need to like fix the way this team plays to get them closer to the, to playing like the best team in the world.
00:23:48
Speaker
They came into this tournament, I think, on balance, the second best team in the field, behind France, when it started. And they exited the tournament, the second best team in the field, behind Spain. At no point in this tournament did they play like the second best team in the field. And that is the Southgate experience. Play like play like a bad team, achieve like a best team, but don't win. Can you get a manager that plays like the best team in the field and wins like the best team in the field. Well, certainly everyone would like that, but you should try, right? You should try. And that's the same way we talked about the United States men's national team. You should try to to to get someone that could get you playing away that you think gives you the best chance that you like to win. I think Garrett Southgate did that for for whatever long this window was, but try something else. Cause I don't think anyone's happy with with how it went.
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, so there's a couple of points here. One, I think like Gareth Southgate was successful. I know that he didn't win a trophy and that we'd like to rag on him and I think a lot of that was fairly deserved. But at the end of the day, would you look back to where England were in 2014, in 2016? For England to have made two major tournament finals, made a World Cup semi-final, made another good World Cup in which they lost to arguably the best or second best team, I think that's a successful you know four major tournaments for England. The issue is, I don't know that the path is there for them to improve on that. And I think, like you said, just you're out of times where you can just convince yourself that if you do the same thing over again, you'll get a different result.
00:25:28
Speaker
It could happen because it could always happen. And that's how this stuff works. But I think there's another way for England. And so that leads me into my question for you here, Amit. If it's not Southgate, which I think we both feel like it's probably not, who is it? i That's a great question. I had names for the United States. I don't have names for England. I mean, there's not a name that you're going to like, not you, but anyone's going to like. I see here you have Eddie Howe, Pochettino, Thomas Tuchel. I'll tell you this, they're all great club managers, and you can pick your hand-picked club manager, and that's kind of what you have to do, but like they all don't have the experience Southgate had at winning international knockout stage games. So like you're just hoping.
00:26:17
Speaker
i mean They're all tactics, guys. They're all tactics, wonks, like all three of those guys. I mean, are there any other names that I should be should be thinking of here? Yeah, i don't I don't know that there is because like England is in this weird spot where they're never going to get the best manager that's out there, right? Like Pep Guardiola isn't leaving Man City to manage England. um You know, whoever whoever you think that is, but you know, Michaela Artessa, he's not leaving Arsenal to manage the England national team. So they're in this weird like in between of they can't get the very best managers that manage the big club teams in their country.
00:26:57
Speaker
And so they're left to settle for kind of the second tier guys managing top tier players. And that's a difficult task for these managers. And so because of that, I don't know what they should do. And I almost, I can get why there might be some feeling in the Federation of like, hey, like, we got a good thing going here. Let's not mess with that. Like, there's a possibility that they get this wrong and they're bad in 2026. Right. You're just introducing chaos. And I'll say this much like, At this point, you know the talent's good enough to get you to that stage. yeah It's a vibes thing. We say that all the time. And you want proof it's a vibes thing? Look at Scolone and what happened with Argentina.
00:27:37
Speaker
And so like I'll say it, like I thought England's vibes this tournament were so much better than they have been in the past. The mentality of of Saka, of Bellingham, the way they responded resiliency. Of course, this is result bias. This is hindsight bias. But I was really impressed with that. um At the same time, like are the vibes with Southgate loser? can you like To answer that question for me. like It seemed like he had his players better vibed than ever to go. But like is he the guy? Is it the players? And that's where also like name whatever name you want. I don't care their tactics. When it gets to the close games, like I just want a guy that can get the new one. That's a stupid answer. I'm the number one. like Not number one, but like I'm a big tactics analytics guy. But like you can't convince me that anything mattered here other than they got to a bunch of big games and lost them. Yeah, and that's the thing. like England are good enough that as long as you don't get it,
00:28:34
Speaker
like really, really wrong tactics wise, like you're going to be at every single game because there's that type of talent here. And so, yeah, that's what that's really gets a funny bit to be like England should get Roy Hodgson, like, but like if you told me the players all liked Roy Hodgson and he just had them like play kind of English boring defensive ball and hoof the ball, the long strikers, long balls of strikers, I'd be like, OK. I'll see you at a quarterfinal and maybe you have the same chance. Like. Yeah. So I think the other question here, we're thinking obviously Southgate and what they do, man, Julia is the big question. It's these young guys. Is there another step for those guys to take? So a guy like Bellingham, Saka, Foden, can those guys take the step from being really, really, really, really good players to being absolutely great players. And if they do that opens up
00:29:27
Speaker
different doors for England, I think, and how they want to play and what they want to try to do here. Yeah, they've got the structure for, again, the top four teams in the world already. OK, but Spain have Lamine Yamal. France have Kylian Mbappe. Argentina got messy, I don't know, about 2026. That's conversation for later in the show, actually. They keep keep listening. Can Saka take that leap? Can Fone take that leap? Can Bellingham take that leap? all three of those players have literally been the best player in their league for like over the course of a season already. So the question is like, what takes it to work at the international level? Yeah. I don't, I don't know. Like I think Bellingham is the one where you can very clearly point to he's really raw, athletic, but like, and can do everything. But is he fully elite yet? I think he's going to keep doing that at Madrid.
00:30:24
Speaker
Foden is one where like, is he a product of Manchester City? Is Sokka like, I think he's a pretty electric player. I think he just his thing is he plays a ton of matches for Arsenal. And when you're a winger and you're that dribbling, ah your aging curve is super accelerated. And it's really hard to stay that electric ah the longer you go. So like, I think one of those guys can be it. I think a big thing for them is they need to figure out fullbacks, ah center back. Welcome to the club. That's pretty much everybody in international football at this point, right? Yeah. And then like can they get a guy next to to Rice um and Bellingham that they like? And that's where we really came into the sermon thinking Adam Wharton could be that player. And instead, they went for Kobe Manu. He's 19. I know his age now. He could also be take that leap in two years.
00:31:13
Speaker
so like This is a pool that can get better. We say that a lot about teams that like it's not really going to get better in two years. Yeah, there's a few players you could point to and say they could be better. So like, yeah, I think they're already a team that's had superstars do superstar things. They could have even more of that potential. Super duper stars doing super duper star things. Poor Declan Rice's suitcase, man. A lot of major tournaments that it's coming home empty from. Any other, any other final thoughts here as we close the book on on the year of 2024?
00:31:48
Speaker
It was a great tournament. Germany hosted it well. It was really well played. And I want to, I mean, I kind of have closing thoughts on both tournaments, but I'll say this about the Euro. Think about how far international football has come from when we started doing this podcast, from whatever, however long you've been watching. I think the managing specifically at year 24, when the ball is in play a lot and there's a lot of technical players. and it's you know a little bit different from Cope America. We know they're different and we appreciate the differences. Think about how rewarding it was to see teams playing attacking soccer. yeah Everyone's got the playbook now. um There's more quality than ever. There's more analytics than ever in the game. I don't and don't want to see any tweets about the game's gone. If you're watching, if you're listening to this podcast, the game is better and than it's ever been.
00:32:38
Speaker
And it's more sweaty than it's ever been. You've got to be playing at the highest level and the highest margins to win. And so, like, this is two years, this is the in-between of the World Cup. Think about where we're going in 26. There's more matches than ever. There's more teams. There's more players. there's Everything is more, more, more. Well, then you better have, you know, the approach and process to win when when there's more balls and there's everything. Like, you've got to be at the highest level. Credit to Spain. They were the best team at doing all those things.
00:33:14
Speaker
Let's shift gears to the Copa America because it's a good saying because credit to Spain for being the best team. Credit to Argentina because they were also the best team at this tournament. And I think it it says a lot about Argentina ah that they probably didn't play above a B plus game in this tournament and and still won it conceding only one goal. Argentina won no winners over Colombia after extra time.
Copa America Final: Delays and Their Effects
00:33:35
Speaker
But we have to start with the seats before the game that delayed the match 80 minutes. Look, there's not a whole lot. that you and I can add to this conversation. So I don't think we need to dwell too much on it. Everything that you've read and seen has generally been accurate. um I will just say for personal experience,
00:33:54
Speaker
ah these big sort of matches, there needs to be extended security checks from a longer ways out. When you go to a match here in Argentina, you're showing your ticket three, four times before you even get into the stadium. If you don't have a ticket, you shouldn't be able to get to so that the front of the stadium door. And I think that was kind of the root of all the issues here. And then there can be plenty of of Monday morning quarterback for everything that comes after that and and the decisions that were made or are not made. Because of that, shifting from that to a ah footballing perspective, that makes it really weird when you're playing the biggest game of your career, if if you're a Colombian player or you're playing another massive game, if you're an Argentine player and you have this will they, won't they 80 minute delay when type of thing, it adds to the difficulty here for players. Yeah. You've got to test your preparation and that's where
00:34:43
Speaker
You and I kind of were talking to each other and I was like, well, Argentina have done this before. yeah I'm sure the Colombian players have have you know experienced situations like this before. um But it's it's really tricky, especially with your warmup. And I think you know with the long halftime that we knew was coming for for Shakira as well, this was a game hu a lot about the energy levels. um yeah And I do think in some ways it helped Columbia, the nature of this game. um It was gonna be charged. It was always gonna be charged. And the game, and it was charged. um But I think Columbia were able to... yeah Let's talk about the game.
00:35:29
Speaker
yeah Columbia benefited from that. they They had energy for more of the game than maybe if you had told me when we talked about this, previewing the game. We said, the legs are going to be a tough one for here, here for Columbia. They they were ready. And i don' I'm not saying it's because of the 80 minute delay in the halftime, but I do think the conditions here were just, there was a lot of time to get that adrenaline in the exact right spot, like multiple times. Yeah. And, and that was the thing I think as we will get into here, I think this game shifted when Columbia were forced to a take their best players off because they were out of energy. When this game was played from the start 11 on 11, both teams had their preferred lineups out there.
00:36:12
Speaker
both teams were as fresh as they were going to be. I think Columbia almost maybe shaded it here. They were a bit more aggressive than I thought they were going to be. And I think they did a really good job of kind of taking Argentina's defense and midfield out of it. They choked it off. they They took away the passing lanes. The issue for Columbia, and you and I talked about this a lot yesterday during this game, the issue for Columbia is they were really good at forcing the first mistake. But the problem is Argentina only give you the first mistake. So often in international hole, we see these moments where, oh no, they've given it away. And then they compound the mistake with something else stupid that happens. The goalkeepers off his line and they get beat. A defender makes a rash challenge trying to recover and gives away a penalty.
00:36:55
Speaker
Argentina don't do that. And so this whole game, for large parts of it, Colombia every so often forced a mistake. ah A misplaced pass from midfield. The goalkeeper playing out the back didn't play it well. And boom, Colombia are breaking. It's four on three. It's three on three. It's it's whatever combination of numbers you want. and Argentina recover and those two center backs so so good Martinez and Romero they're so good at recovering and they're so good at individual one-on-one challenges and I think that really limited Colombia's ability to do anything from open play because all of their open play opportunities really
00:37:31
Speaker
came from Argentine mistakes and came in space. And Argentina erased that space and didn't compound those the mistakes. And that, a minute, left Colombia with only their patented set pieces to fall back on. And for whatever reason, they didn't quite get that right last night. Yeah, you described it really well. Columbia had the had a really good approach, and had the energy for the approach, and I think got a lot of ah open-play situations that they would have taken heading into this game. But as you outlined perfectly, and I think this is one of the reasons why Argentina are ah ranked the best team in playing somewhat close to the best team in the world,
00:38:12
Speaker
you know, as Messi has aged, the rest of the team is so good. And the defender center backs are so good. Kuti Romero, Lissandra Martinez, these guys got bought to the top clubs because of their one-on-one ability. And I know, you know, Kuti Romero is physically, you know, very and imposing. And Lissandra Martinez is short, but like, Kuti Romero isn't like, compare him to say, let's say, Rudiger, or Saliba, or Gabriel. He doesn't look as, you know, jacked, is the right word, right? Menacing. Menacing. But both of these guys are fast. And I have, we have to give them credit, as you said, I think about as positionally aware, um is defending as good of defenders as you can find anywhere.
00:39:00
Speaker
And part of that's you know the set they've developed, playing in clubs that press and let them defend one on one, it's in the the Virgil van Dyck neighborhood of skill set. And a few other players here, um Alexis McAllister can do that too. I know he's a midfielder, but like he's so his ability to to play as a defensive midfielder, and it's what you said, they've reset things back to neutral after the mistake better than anyone. Their transition defense is as good as it in the world. And then also Deebu, Deebu is such a confounding player. Deebu Martinez, the the goalkeeper, sometimes he can look like a really bad goalkeeper. ye But he, he's positionally doesn't do anything like horrible, especially when he plays for Argentina.
00:39:47
Speaker
and he gives you that extra blanket of security too and definitely commands his penalty area. right like yeah He can make some mistakes with the ball, but all of this is to say that Argentina, justs like even with Colombia's A+, I thought strategy and and game plan, they ground it to to dust. And that's over beat himself that's where You have to beat them. B plus Argentina is so good in this game. And that led to, as kind of expected, a very scrappy, very physical game. There were some set pieces for Columbia. Jamez Rodriguez, I think, gave a bunch of good deliveries, but Argentina knew knew the danger on the set pieces. There were a few good headers, but no one was wide open, right? Maybe once.
00:40:32
Speaker
and And Martinez, I thought was really good on the set pieces, very committed. Like when he came out, he came out and he got the ball every single time he he came out for it. And Columbia had a physical advantage. There's no doubt about it. When Columbia got their numbers forward for a set piece, they were bigger and they were stronger in the box, but Argentina handled it every single time. So that was what happened when when Columbia tried to go forward. Argentina really didn't create a ton in this game because Columbia are really good and solid defensively. They're organized and for as good as kind of, as good as tactically Argentina might be defensively Colombia are physically imposing defensively and they are really hard to beat because those guys can move those guys are strong and you can't get them off the ball and so Argentina also kind of really struggled to create things in this game there were a couple of intricate slick passing moves for them but other than that I don't really recall a ton of grade A opportunities for either side in in the 90 in this match and even for the majority of extra time
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah, Columbia's structure was really good. ah Their center backs have been good. Larma has been, I think, an excellent standout tournament. I know the goals are going to show up, and that's going to help his, you know profile, whatever. But did the defensive work from Columbia was great. They they went 22 matches in a row without losing on solidity and set pieces. And it's very easy to say, OK, a good team had defensive solidity. But in a final like this, you see it borne out. They took Argentina, a team playing like the best team in the world, and and choked them out a little bit. And I think some of this, for sure, we have to talk about now is Lionel Messi. It wasn't great.
00:42:14
Speaker
wasn't a great game for him. He had maybe been struggling with stuff all tournament. He certainly was struggling stuff when this game took an ankle injury and then also took another one. That thing was very swollen when he came off. It was tough. And I think that was what Argentina needed to beat a Columbia team at this defensive level within the 90. And other than that, they were fine, but yeah, nothing to unlock it. He had one late arriving ball, Messi did, that his trademark cut back onto his left foot. and he didn't even get great contact on it. And there was also a lot of traffic, but it was pretty well neutered from Columbia. And so that change for Argentina really changed this game, I thought, and also illustrated what has made Argentina so freaking good for this run. Lionel Messi, who many believe is the best player to ever play, the best player in the world, he's obviously not at that level right now, went off. And five years ago, if Lionel Messi went off, Argentina were completely lost.
00:43:12
Speaker
They would put somebody on to try to play the same role who was not as good at that. That's not what they did here. They took Messi off and they kind of just played differently. They brought on Nico Gonzalez, and I thought Nico Gonzalez was really good in this game. He is a bigger, kind of more physical attacking player, has fantastic ability to get up and win contested balls. And I thought he really helped Argentina with that. And so, Look, if Argentina can play without Messi, that unlocks a whole different style for Argentina to be able to play and a whole different things that they can do. So from there, this game kind of just keeps going on and on with no great chances.
00:43:48
Speaker
And then the big shift of it comes right kind of at the end of the 90 when Nestor Lorenzo is forced into making changes because his guy's legs have kind of gone. So he's forced to take Richard Rios who was great again last night. Richard Rios was really really good in this tournament for Colombia. He's forced to take Richard Rios off and bring on Kevin Castaño, who's a much more defensive, much less attacking minded player. And he has to bring on Rafael Santos-Barre for John Cordova, who was more physical, where he runs a little bit more. Neither of them really found much in this match. But I think it really speaks a lot to the level of these two teams emit in that Colombia did not make a change for nearly 90 minutes. And that was because their best 11 players were on the field.
00:44:32
Speaker
The 11 players that Columbia believed could win in this game, could change in this game, were on the field, and there was nothing that they were going to do off the bench that changed that. Argentina had 11 really good players on the field, but you know what else they were able to do? They were able to bring another five really good players off the bench, and that's where I think this game started to shift. Columbia has to make these changes because they simply don't have the legs to play the style they're trying to play. Argentina brings their guys on, and the Argentina substitutes are significantly better than the Columbia substitutes, and that's where the game is decided. You nailed it. And it it bore out. It it was born out that way. And that's where Argentina, even at B plus, like playing the that's how a better team can just beat you. Like Gonzalez was so good. He's a wide forward.
00:45:20
Speaker
And like you said, the aerial ability, it's not a winger that like breaks you down. It's a winger that like gives you another guy to hit the ball to. And he's a, he's a hit man, right? He could score in the box. He can also cross very smart. And then more changes came on, right? You mentioned the Columbia changes. They get on Lautaro Martinez, Giovanni Los Salso, Paredes. They all are very good at their roles, right? Like Lautaro, you know, we'll talk about the goal in a second. Paredes was involved in there, too. like it's It's so frustrating for Columbia. They did everything right. And I just think they needed to get that. in They needed to win this game in 90. Argentina subs you knew were looming. And this is it's the messy era. I think the story of the Scoloni era, a better way to put it. yeah and you know
00:46:13
Speaker
he He doesn't get all the credit for the pool being as good as and as it is. But Scoloni just always has the right answers,
Argentina's Strategy and Depth Without Messi
00:46:21
Speaker
doesn't he? Like, yeah always pulls the right strings on who to bring in and what role, what the team needs. Argentina's strength is their flexibility, right? They took Messi off. They put on a wide forward. And it they just, Argentina looks seamless in doing that, right? They get a destroyer on. they In Paredes, they get a ball player on in La Salso.
00:46:44
Speaker
Columbia's guys, I know they do roles, but they're not as high level. And I think the Columbia manager would tell you, like he didn't want to like have to get to those changes. Versus if you had Scolone before the game, he's like, yeah, I've got a pretty good idea. No matter which way this thing goes, I've got subs for every little situation. Some of that's a squad. Some of that's a managing. It combined for a lethal effect. So yeah, so Columbia open extra time by making another change. They take off hummus rodriguez. They put on Juan Fernando Contero, who is hummus rodriguez light, but you can't really say light. It's kind of like hummus rodriguez heavy, right? yeah
00:47:20
Speaker
And then Argentina make that triple switch about six minutes into extra time and they bring on Lautaro, Los Selso, and Paredes. And guess who were the three players who combined for the Argentina goal in the second half of extra time? Lautaro, Los Selso, Paredes. And that speaks to the difference here for Argentina. Colombia had to bring on lesser versions of the guys they had. Argentina were able to bring on guys who could be game changers. Call me to make a couple more switches to to start the second half of extra time. They bring out Jorge Carterscala and Miguel Borja. Again, our lesser versions of the guy, like Carterscala is a poor man's Richard Rios. Miguel Borja is a poor man's quarter boy. He's just like a perfectly fine mediocre attacker who needs three chances to score, which is not going to get in 15 minutes.
00:48:03
Speaker
And so then the goal of it. This starts from Kintaro making a bad pass towards his own box. Argentina don't really capitalize on the initial scramble. That allows Colombia to break going the other way. And the destroyer that is Panettas, who did this so many times in the latter moments of this game, breaks down, wins the challenge, wins the ball, ball cycles back to him, he picks out Lechelso in the midfield, Lechelso picks out Lautaro Martinez, and Lautaro Martinez does what you need to do in a major tournament final extra time, right? Puts his foot in the ball, strikes it hard, puts it on target, and dares the goalkeeper to make a save. And guess what? Gamilla Vargas didn't make a save, it's in the back of the net, Argentina up 1-0. This wasn't a great finish from Lautaro Martinez, right? He just drove it straight at the goalkeeper's head,
00:48:47
Speaker
and the goalkeeper flinched and didn't make the save. Is it the type of shot that could be saveable? Absolutely. But it wasn't, and that's the difference. 100%. That's why we love to say to each other in text and say on this podcast, shoot shoot the ball on target, yeah right? And the best finishers you know finishing ah it's an art and a science if you're gonna say it's a science you put the ball on target like it doesn't and the best finishers at different angles this is a decent angle this is XG on this shot was 0.35 okay put the ball on target when you're when you're running in behind put put your foot through it listen Latara Martinez is like
00:49:28
Speaker
ah good but not great striker but he's very elite I think elite at running in behind the finishing is okay he did that he'd made a great run he did an okay finish and and and the goal and the goalie I mean as you said probably should have done better but he hit it hard like Darwin Nunez would have done something similar, maybe put it five yards wide. like But like it it just shows you the value of like the the gulf in class between the Argentina subs and the Columbia subs on this goal we're was perfectly evident in the way it came out. And really, the Paredes recycle to to get this ball to start the attack. I mean, the guy is so good at eating up ground and in a flash. That was really really well done.
00:50:16
Speaker
It was insane how much ground he covered, how cleanly he won the ball. There were multiple times when Argentina just so cleanly just took out like super physical hard challenges and just won the ball cleanly every single time and then which also gets the ball in space. And like, that's what passers do in space. They make the pass and he he found the guy and pass like, that's the difference here. Um, Columbia, then, you know, they're, they're stuck into, to, to chasing this. They don't really do a ton with it. Um, their best buildup opportunity ended in poor old Mateus Uribe. Just like deciding that firing from 35 yards was what he should do, which it was not what he should have done. But also at this point, like Columbia don't have any of their good players on the field and it shows.
00:50:57
Speaker
Columbia had a bunch of attacking B players of the A players, version B versions of the A players, and their defenders were the same. And what Argentina did well was like, okay, your best players, your subs, impact subs can't even affect the ball if we just, we have a bunch of guys that are, you know, going to press you higher up the field. Argentina, as usual, put on ah a clinic in how to see how to lead. um Really well done. I know they actually gave up that goal to France and the World Cup final, but ah they they were very good here um and denying Columbia space. Yeah, nothing really for Columbia to get ah outside of that one shot. It was tough. And I mean, kind of after that goal, right? It was only going to be one way. Right. It was a big goal. Columbia weren't coming back for for being a goal down with that little to play. And I don't really think there's a lot that you can criticize Columbia for here. Like the better team did better things. And in the end of the day, that made the difference. like ah
00:51:53
Speaker
Like, what are Columbia supposed to do? They can't get better players in four days. Like, playing 120 minutes was hard for them in this case. That extra 30 minutes cost them this game. Yeah, they needed to score one of those set piece header half chances in the 90. They had a few. I think they this game script was about as good as they could have played it. And this is why Argentine is good, is they didn't have their A plus game, even their A minus game, but they just wore Colombia out. They dragged them into a 12 round fight and they had more in the tank we because of their energy and their subs.
00:52:30
Speaker
like This is how good teams win. It's ugly in its own way. It's also evidence of how good they are in their own way. like Man, what do you want to say about Argentina? They're winners. like yeah to Just to talk with them. like They're winners at the highest level. um could they have Was this impressive from them this entire tournament? No. Did they have a good draw? Yes. But they won. They always win right now because they just have more guys
00:53:01
Speaker
like almost like Spain, they have more guys up and down the roster that are winning players. It's so reductive to say that. If they lost this game, I wouldn't have come in and said they had losing players, but I would have said they didn't necessarily play well. But they just, in every game they play, they kind of have an edge on you. Yeah, and it was really interesting down the stretch of this. I was really caught between a rock and a hard place because I had this sinking feeling that had Argentina let this go to penalties. This might be the time where it didn't go their way in penalties. But then I also looked at who was on the field for Colombia. It was like, there's no way this doesn't go their way because Colombia would have taken some of the worst penalties you could possibly imagine. I'm almost a bit sad it didn't go to penalties because getting like a penalty content of like,
00:53:44
Speaker
Kintaro, Karaskal, Borja, Uribe, and like Pick a Defender would have just been fantastic from Colombia because there's absolutely no chance all of those guys would have made their penalties. But Argentina did this in the 120 and were deserved winners because of that. um I think we've talked about a lot of the big takeaways here for for Argentina. i mean I think the depth of quality is just kind of unmatched right now. And so they don't have the the top level elite talent that some of these other national teams do, but there's also, where are you attacking them? You look at this starting 11, you look at this team and there's no weak link in it. Like what are you supposed to do to beat them? And that I think is what makes them so good is,
00:54:29
Speaker
We can't wear them down because they have six other guys on the bench that they can bring in and and also make a difference in this game. They are so hard to beat because they don't beat themselves. They make you beat them and you have to be really, really good to beat them. Yeah, I think you've got to. That's almost why you get the Francis in England's of the world sprouting up like to play that way is like we're just going to make this thing super cagey and hope we get the half balance. You don't get the half balance like it. Can they lose? Of course. Like in in a World Cup 26, I think they'll be second or third, right? Like maybe first, you depending on what we see the next two years, they're just they're the toughest out. And that's won them three tournaments in a row. yeah like That's what it is. I don't think they're invincible. But in the results business that is international soccer, like this is up there with Spain. and like
00:55:26
Speaker
I saw a tweet that was like, Argentina is nowhere near the level of that Spain team, um, from oh wait, 10 and 12, like.
00:55:36
Speaker
ah Come on, man. that's a bad like you got to I watched them. Those were all really, really impressive teams. but like And you could say what you want about a Euro versus a Copa America in the talent field. But like this is so impressive the way they've done this. They've built themselves ah ah into a powerhouse. You've got to give credit where it due. This is a generational run of winning and done well because they just they've they've mastered the vibes as well, too. And I know that's like such a silly concept. for like us podcasters to like say into existence. But isn't it real? Isn't that the point of all of what we talk about? Yeah, it has to be. And the most interesting thing, I think, is what's going to happen in the next two years for Argentina. Because all of this has kind of been formed around and formed with these talismanic veterans who lived through the dark times, who were responsible for and part of the dark times.
00:56:34
Speaker
On Hill DeMaria has said he's done with international football. I think the same can be said of Nicholas Otamendi. That said, we don't know what Lionel Messi's going to do. I think, I've said this a lot. I've said this every time somebody's asked me this question. I think Lionel Messi can play at the 2026 World Cup. I don't think he can play 90 minutes a game at the 2026 World Cup, but I think he can play a role. And I also think he has the type of mentality who would accept a role. the type of role that Cristiano Ronaldo wouldn't accept for Portugal if we want to de juxtapose those two again, like we so often do. So because of that, I think Argentina are uniquely positioned to transition out of this generation of these star players that have been there forever.
00:57:16
Speaker
and into this generation of a bunch of really, really good guys that are somehow way better than the sum of their individual parts. And I think that is what's going to make Argentina really hard to beat again in 2026. I agree. And it'll be really interesting in 26 to check the talent level. Are they closer to Netherlands, Italy, or to Spain or England or France. and I think the answer is somewhere in the middle because you get scared when you say they're a bunch of team of really solid guys. Okay. Well, that's what we said about Italy and Netherlands almost derisively. Right. But Julian Alvarez is got a little difference maker in him. Romero, A plus center back. I don't know if you're not watching that anymore. I don't know what you're seeing. like
00:58:10
Speaker
DePaul. Yeah, we didn't mention DePaul. A plus two-way midfielder. His ability to run, and chase, and recover, and just do it, and do it, and do it, and do it. Columbia wore down. Guess who didn't wear down? Maria DePaul. His hair wore down because he had four different hairstyles, not the alternative. Yeah. So I i think the they they're going to be right there. The messy question is super interesting because they could still use him. They still could need him. um Can they get two or three other attacking stars. and And certainly you have Lattaro. I think Alvarez is there. Maybe Gonzalez keeps going. I mean, he's a good player. I don't think he's a star, but again, useful in this in this final, which we saw. How about ah the guy from Atlanta United, who was is just sold to Botafogo, who's going to Europe? um No, it's not chug all month. I could promise you that. But is it somebody like Alejandro Garmacho at Man City? He's 18.
00:59:08
Speaker
You don't like, ah you don't like Omada even as a, as an attacker to play passes? I mean, like maybe, but like, I think there are better options for Argentina. Like I think they're going to have other guys who can, who can play those sorts of roles. But yeah, there is a lot of, there's enough young talent coming through that I think they can recycle enough. And you take all of that and you throw in the fact that, man, you best not miss, right? Like you have to beat them and it's really hard to beat them. agreed. And certainly going, what they have going for them is that even if they are the fourth or fifth best team on talent come 2026, they will be in the United States. If Messi is in the squad, they have the Messi aura. yeah um If Scolone sticks around, which I certainly think he will and should, they have that going for them. They have the champions aura, which is
00:59:59
Speaker
You could say that's messy. Scloan is it's the teams now. Yeah. um That's real. So that's why even if they're fourth or fifth, they're going to be closer to one or two in the team that you have to beat to take them out. Yeah. Are you brave enough to pick against? Like I think that's going to be the question we're asking two years from now is. All right. Argentina might not be the best team here. You might look at another squad and say, well, I think I like them more. Are you brave enough to pick against Argentina? And one other thing is, as I said on the Euro Podcast, all these teams are great, but all these teams are flawed. Like Spain just won. Spain have defensive center back and fullback issues like everyone does. Every Germany have the same issues. France have midfield aging issues and finishing issues. England have, you know, the way they play issues, center back and fullback issues. Who doesn't have center back and fullback issues?
01:00:55
Speaker
Argentina. So yes, will you pick against them? Very good question. It's going to be fascinating to see what what they look like in two years. Let's close this out a bit with some words for Colombia. I think this was really good for Colombia. It took a whole heck of a lot to actually beat them. That said, they didn't create enough to to force one over the line. That's kind of an issue. And when they needed it most, they didn't get that set piece dominance that they had shown it at other points in this tournament. Couple all of that together with the fact that, as we talked about a lot on this show, they simply didn't have the depth to match Argentina, and that leads to losing 1-0 an extra time. And it sucks because you never know when you're going to get the next chance. It's if the same question as always. The samples are so small. This happens so rarely that who knows when Colombia is going to make a major tournament final again. And so to not take advantage of it is always going to be disappointing.
01:01:46
Speaker
All of that said, this is a really positive run for them. And if they keep this project going, if they come into 2026 with everybody that they want to be 100% at 100%, they're going to be a dangerous team at the World Cup. Yeah, it starts with that defensive solitily. It's just going to make them dangerous. um I think you've seen at Columbia's kind of peak, and certainly with Hamez, you get that round of 16 versus Brazil, right that kind of game. i think They're not a top eight team in the world, but they're right outside there. um Can they win a round of 16 match against the power or can they push their favors in the group stage? yeah or I mean, there's also going to be a 32 round match. You got to win that too. Can the draw work for them to get a winnable game, two winnable games, or win a game against a team better than them?
01:02:38
Speaker
And the formula they have says they're going to be very dangerous in that game against a team better than them and exactly as solid as you want to beat a team after level worse than them. So they're going to be ah ah an interesting team to potentially make a quarterfinal. And once you're there, all bets are off. In 26, we'll see um I like this project. You got to keep hummus Rodriguez and bubble wrap I mean, and I don't think any of us saw this coming ah what this on in the past year This was a turn back the clock performance He was the name the best player of the couple America which I think it was well deserved He was far in a way that the best individual player at this tournament And like you said a admit look
01:03:15
Speaker
If their recipe is defensive stability, organization, set pieces, that can get you a long way, international football, if you can hit on all three of those things. And I think there's there's a case to be made that Columbia can, but the big issue here is everything's got to go right and they got to get to 2026 and Thomas Rodriguez has to be able to do this sort of thing again or they need somebody who can do that and all of these guys have to be healthy because we saw it you take one part out of this Columbia side and all of a sudden the level just drops and the more parts you take out the further the level drops.
01:03:50
Speaker
And I think this is a really interesting question. I'm going to put you on the spot. yeah You just saw Columbia Uruguay, and we know who won. Who would you like their chances better in 2026? A team that needs everything right, but has a solidity um and the set pieces in Columbia, or a team managed by a guy doing a lot of the international variants, increasing stuff we like in Bielsa, but maybe less of the solidity? Who do you like their chances better in 2026? If you're asking me to pick today, right now, at this moment, I think I'm taking Columbia because I think that recipe generally leads itself to more success at the major international tournaments, right? like In the knockout round, for sure. yeah For sure. In the knockout round. And so because of that, I think I would back Columbia. But again, I think both of those teams are in the type of situation where there's a lot of variables that go into it, right?
01:04:43
Speaker
If you take one guy away for 2026, I don't know what it is. you know Alexis McAllister doesn't make it. He's not healthy. There's a piece that Argentina can could put in there and can change. Colombia gets to 2026 and odd Daniel Munoz can't go at right back. That's an issue. We saw that in this game against Argentina, Santiago Arias. Not at that level. replacement right back, not at that level. So much, I think, has to go right for both those teams. I think the the conversation is the same, for what do I like? They have a style that they can run a bunch of different guys in, but they do need a lot of it to to go right, to to pull it off. But I think those two teams in particular, plus Brazil, are three fascinating South American teams to to watch going forward and to to see what happens. And that leads us into to kind of our our final big picture takeaways here from Copa America. mean
01:05:28
Speaker
ah Common Bull is a lot different than when it was six years ago. the the the The big picture of what this confederation is is completely different because Argentina are the top dogs and they are the uncontested top dogs. And then behind them you've got Brazil, Colombia, and Uruguay scrapping to be the second to fourth best team. And then you've got some promising teams in Ecuador and Venezuela. We've got these mushy middle teams that are bad. um And I think that is is the big takeaway here. This, I think, this tournament really solidified where we thought all of these teams were going into it. 100%. And it's been nice that it lined up the way we thought from qualifying. And I think it gives ah a lot of
01:06:16
Speaker
It's nice that in common ball, you get to play really good high level qualifying matches. yeah um And you know I think we have a pretty good idea of who's going to get in. Maybe there'll be there won't be that much drama. um And maybe the intensity won't necessarily be there for the top teams. But it's a good continent to play some some important matches before 26. These are danger, especially the top five. You can extend that to Ecuador. Dangerous teams, this is ah this is a powerful, powerful confederation. um And like you outlined in that little, you know, two to five range, that's a lot of hunger and a lot of question marks.
01:06:54
Speaker
So fascinating teams to think about. And big question marks, like we talked about, Ecuador have to name a new manager. Paraguay are going to get a new manager. What are they going to do? um Those are massive question marks for what comes next. And to to bring in the CONCACAF sides we saw here, there's a lot of those same question marks for those teams. Mexico, the US, Jamaica are all looking at bringing in new managers. you know What do do panel on Canada do? This was a really good tournament, and I think We will leave this tournament having learned a lot about all of the teams that we saw here. Agreed. 100%. It was really great in that sense. It was a great tournament. um This was a super fun Copa America. I don't think you can have the CONCACAF teams in every time, but when you get it right, it was a really high level. And the
01:07:44
Speaker
I think the fun of Copa America and the way these matches are played um are so intense and so good that this is why we love seeing these these heavyweights go at each other. yeah They treated us to another you know ah entertainment spectacle, great games. um And that's why I think the World Cup is gonna be great because everyone, yeah okay, I hope you all enjoyed your Euro Germany nice pitch and tactics ball that you saw. We loved it. We talked about the first half of the podcast, we loved it. but like There's other ways to do this thing. And this was really high level ways to do this thing. And so in 26, we'll see it all clash a little bit. And that's what's that's what's fun. Even Michael Buffer showed up, for God's sake. That's how entertaining this thing was. um All right, a bit. What's next for us as a show here? We're wrapping up our our summer, winter program, whatever whatever you want to talk about.
01:08:34
Speaker
We're going to be off for a little bit because we've done a lot of podcasting over the the the past couple of weeks. But don't worry, the international football will kick on. And I think it will kick on really interestingly in September, because guess what's back? Conable World Cup qualifiers. And so we get to revisit that table that we've been talking about and talk about those big questions. Ecuador will have a new manager. What do we see from them? Brazil, can they recover from what has been a sluggish start and just put the questions behind them and get to the World Cup easily? or whether this is going to be more of a journey in.
01:09:05
Speaker
that mushy middle, that fight for the the the intercontinental playoff spot in in sixth will but certainly take shape. So we've got Conville qualifying on the calendar. I know you and I are both very excited for that to be back. Asian World Cup qualifying round three kicks off where we're starting to kind of maybe put teams in the World Cup if they get off to hot starts here in Asia. That's going to be interesting. And guess what, Amit? We got the first round of Oceanic qualifying. You want four of the worst islands playing football in the Pacific? I've got it for you in September. I need a stream. I got to see it. Got to see it. ah Samoa, American Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands. Got a favorite? All right. Give me, a give me American Samoa. Why not? Okay. That's going to happen in September. So midnight, we'll be back in September. We'll be back before September. I think to to kind of look at
01:09:54
Speaker
take the temperature of of Asian qualifying for sure. We had a ah draw that that that brings up a lot of questions to that. So we'll be back then.
Podcast Conclusion and Future Plans
01:10:01
Speaker
Thank you to everybody for listening to us throughout these two major tournaments. We had a whole lot of fun. Look, we get it. We do this podcast because we enjoy it and and we just hope that that you guys enjoy it too. So that's all from us at World Cup After Dark. If you like what we did here this summer, you can rate, review, subscribe. And if you'd like to support us monetarily, you can do that at patreon dot.com slash WCAD. $3 a month will help us do what we do and we'll also get you access to Patreon subscriber only shows so and also that World Cup qualifying spreadsheet, which is gonna come real handy once we get back to it in September. So that's all from us. We're gonna take a well-deserved break and we will talk to you guys in a couple weeks. Thanks as always for listening.