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Gabe Joyes and Multi-Day Stage Racing
4.4k Plays14 days ago
The Uphill Athlete podcast welcomes mountain athlete, ultra runner and Uphill Athlete ambassador Gabe Joyes for a discussion with host Alyssa Clark. Gabe and Alyssa discuss his journey from being a backpacker to transitioning into competitive trail and stage racing, including his recent third place finish in the Dragon's Back Race in Wales. They break down his training approach, gear choices, challenges he faced, racing strategies, and his favorite aspects of the race. Gabe credits years of consistent training, adaptability, and thoughtful preparation for his success and shares his wisdom with listeners interested in stage racing or multi-day events. Tune in for a fun and enlightening conversation with Gabe!
Check out more information on coaching or racing at uphillathlete.com or write to us at [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to Gabe Joyce and His Adventures
00:00:11
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the uphill athlete podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Clark, and I am here with a guest who I feel like I've known for a long time. We've been meaning to get him on the podcast and he's here to talk about Oh, man, all things dragons back but also just so many other adventures you've had. We have Gabe Joyce on the podcast. Gabe, thanks so much for being here.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thanks so much, Alyssa. Yeah, it's so good to finally meet you. Be on the podcast. It's cool. I'm excited to share stories and chat. Awesome. I said joy is right. Yeah, joy is like joy with his teeth. I love it. Always was bringing joy to the party. That's awesome. Sorry. My cat is right next to me and he also wants to be a part of the podcast, but he's going to stay out of it for now.
00:01:06
Speaker
Um, so it sounds good me on first off, I saw this come up as I was, uh, looking you up a little bit on, uh, Scarborough and a couple of other websites. And I saw the term buckaroo come up a few times. And I actually, whenever I'm driving, say to my cats, all right, buckle up. Buckaroo knows I have my definition, but I'd love to hear what is a buckaroo.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure why they started like tagging that on with some bios and stuff. I don't know. I mean, it's like a buckaroo is a slang term for a cowboy. And by no means do I walk around in like boots with spurs and wear, you know, a giant hat or anything like that. But I do live kind of in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming in a small town that has a lot of focus around ah ranching and that sort of thing. And I spend a lot of time wandering the hills and mountains of Wyoming on my own. I just know was like, yeah, maybe feel a bit connection to that term buckaroo.
00:02:05
Speaker
So yeah, giddy up. It's good to be here. Nice. ah Are you originally from, uh, the area that you live in now, or did you grow up somewhere else?
Transition to Mountain Running
00:02:16
Speaker
I'm not, I grew up in Wisconsin and I moved, let's see here. Um, I spent my summers in Southwest Montana, starting in what year was it? Like 2007, I think or so. And then I moved to.
00:02:34
Speaker
Wyoming in 2008. And I haven't looked back. It's sort of always one of those people who kind of knew I was born in the wrong state and Wisconsin's nice and all, but was it wasn't quite the right place for me. And so, yeah, I've been really happy to call ah Wyoming home now for quite a few years. Nice. It's, yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
It's funny, i I'm from Vermont and tend to get along really well with Midwest people. There's like a i't there's synergy with with that, but um Montana is awesome. I've been dying to get out to the Wind River Range for a while. I've just heard it's magical. Yes. Come on, go for a run. I'll show you around. Sweet. so What um got you started in your journey of mountain running and um yeah specifically multi-day stage racing as you took on Dragon's Back?
00:03:27
Speaker
a couple weeks ago. yeah point so Sure. Well, I long before I ever would have like considered myself a runner, I was I would have called myself a backpacker. Like when I was in Southwest Montana, I was working at a summer camp that took kids on like multi day backpack trips. And that's what my wife and I did for fun. We'd go on multi day backpacking trip. So again, that like the multi day thing is always felt maybe a little bit natural in that sense.
00:03:50
Speaker
um and And we still go backpacking and enjoy it, but it kind of got to be the point where it was. too slow a pace for life. like If you want to get to a ah really cool place and in Western Wyoming or depending where you are in Southwest Montana, like it's commitment. It's a lot of miles to get to these special places. and so We started like ditching gear and going all July and still be like running with 20-pound packs or 15-pound packs. It got to be the point eventually where it was like
00:04:22
Speaker
look, we need to start moving faster here and we're gonna have to carry less stuff. And we kind of discovered that some of these things we like to do, these places we like to go, if you just run, you can get there and like still be home by dinnertime or you know ah go get a pizza afterwards rather than sleeping out and ah in a tent. So it's just kind of a little bit of a different experience and um yeah, running became a really fun way to do it. Yeah, it is so interesting when ah like that natural transition of just, oh, gosh, I could do a 30 mile day over two days, or I could just go a little lighter, get a little faster. And now all of a sudden, all of these places and distances are within a really fun day out in the mountains, grassy for each.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yep, absolutely, yes. This could almost be a negative as well, but it made the world maybe feel like a little bit of a smaller place rather than like special places seem so far away and inaccessible. It's like if, yeah, when you can get there and and still be home at a decent time, it's like maybe some of these special occasions don't quite feel so far away. And then I guess it makes you gravitate towards bigger and bigger adventures, right? To make the world feel big.
00:05:39
Speaker
Well, then you just yeah, multi-day runs and things like that. Just the length of wheels. I mean, I think right it's Tara Dower who says like everything is within walking distance if you have enough time or something ah along those lines. I like that quote very much. Yes. Yeah, I thought that was pretty great. So then how did the this transition into racing ultras?
Early Ultra Race Experiences
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, um well, I played, I played soccer in college and and I was on a very competitive team and grew up playing like a really high level competitive soccer. And so i've I've had that like, element of competition in my life, I was pretty burned out with that after college. And so I was like really happy to just kind of go on like long backpacking trips and long runs with no goals. I think after being like like a couple years removed from that,
00:06:35
Speaker
Um, you know, I started like the idea of like challenging myself to run a little bit faster. And like I didn't even know trail races were a thing at first. And so I, but I started to have this, idea I started to hear like trailer races, you know, like or, or, you know, a sport out there you could do. And I started looking up these races and the first race website I found was hard rock 100. I was like, Oh, let me look at this one. This, this looks like a cool thing to do. ah I'm going to, I'm going to sign up for this. And I went to like the register, but I'm like, Oh, wait.
00:07:03
Speaker
like there's a lottery in a way. yep You have to do a qualifier and like, and so you can't just sign up for hard rock on a whim apparently. They try to keep me out of it. When did you, when was that? That you were like, that must've been like, that must've been like 2011 maybe 2010. I'm trying to think.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, like you still you still had to have a qualifier in things. Wow, OK. Gotcha. Because then I did the Bear 100 as a qualifier. And I think 2010, 2011, or maybe he it's 2013. I don't know. It's all started to tick a long time ago. um So I did Big Horn 50. Got absolutely clobbered. That was my first like ultra race. That went so well that I said, I should just do Bear 100 next. I did that. Got like absolutely clobbered. um And then I put in for the Hard Rock Clobber.
00:08:02
Speaker
It took me a little while to get in. But anyways, that was that was sort of like how I like where my motivation came from to like to try racing. and I was like, I don't know, it just seems like kind of a fun way to be competitive and where my training could be. And I didn't know how to train. and I was I was coolest. My training was just like wandering around the Windover Mountains and kind of picking interesting places to go. And then I just thought, well, at the end of it, you just can show up at a race and like run really hard and see how it goes. And that was that was the beginnings for me. And then of course, lots of, lots of experiences where I figured out that there's maybe a little bit more and be once than that. um and had a lot of Tough goes and and I've had to learn and evolve a lot over the years. Yeah, well, yeah, that's so interesting. I feel like there's I came from a lacrosse background. And I feel like there's so many of us that were kind of like that college field sport. And then
00:08:54
Speaker
you're looking for, you know, that next like competitive piece. And it's just, it's interesting to me how many of us kind of come from that arena versus less so in many ways, they like track and cross country. Like obviously there are those people, but yeah, it's, I feel like there should be a study on, on that of like, what background do you come from and how does that affect, um,
00:09:22
Speaker
you know, moving forward, do you have you been able to stay relatively injury free over the years? or Yes and no. I mean, I think, like, particularly when I was first getting into the sport, I went through like, a lot of those like, newer runner injuries, you know, like it band syndrome, and you know, yeah, the different knee pains, and then all on Achilles thing, and like, I feel like I've had like, every one of those kind of little injuries that people have, but the longer I've been in the sport,
00:09:51
Speaker
um Become more durable and those have become less and less of an issue and also I've learned how to actually like train correctly So that helps too It
Recovery and Shift to Multi-Day Running
00:10:01
Speaker
definitely helps. Yeah so what I Guess like what have kind of been some of the we're gonna get into dragons back specifically and I really want to touch on kind of the training and preparation for dragons back because Yeah on this podcast. I think that that's a really um I think there's a lot of amazing podcasts that kind of talk about like the in-race situation, but for us, it's like, how can we educate from... um
00:10:29
Speaker
the before piece, the after piece and like apply training um principles. But I'm curious what led you to choose Dragon's Back and also like how did you structure Seated Hard Rock? um How did your kind of race progression go to the point where you're like, hey, this is the year I really want to take on Dragon's Back and um I feel prepared because of X, Y, and Z races or experiences to get to this point.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah. Um, yeah, it's kind of a long evolution. You know, for a long time, I was like really focused on a hundred mile races. Um, I still love those. Um, and I plan on doing more, but I think I finished like 13 of them or something like that. And kind of got to the point where it's like, this is cool, but I'm still ready. I'm ready for something different. Um, and.
00:11:22
Speaker
like multi-day running seemed like kind of a and nice pivot where it's still a lot of endurance, um but you know it comes at you in a little bit of a different way. um I've maybe first got really intrigued by the idea of multi-day running actually a little bit by accident. um I had a really bad accident in 2022, and i I had been signed up for,
00:11:50
Speaker
um the La Verrito Alta Trail, which is a 75 mile race in the Dolomites of Italy. And I had done most of the training for that. like I was maybe five weeks out of the race, something like that. um um It was mega fit. I had this accident, that there's all sorts of other podcasts about it, but I fell on a trucking pole and was blood to death. So I won't go into the details of that. but i I had a torn calf muscle, I had like no iron, like no blood left of me, but like I was alive and okay. Anyways, I still had all, I had like bought my plane tickets and had all the hotel reservations, had everything right again, and a lot of radio.
00:12:27
Speaker
And I was only you know like four weeks out from it and I was just this like broken human and broken runner. And as I slowly started to heal and like go for half mile walks with one of my daughters, you know and that felt like a big challenge. And then I started going to these like little jogs and I kind of had this um idea of like, I still wanted to go to La Verrito and I knew i I couldn't race it, but I had this idea of running the course over three days. I was like, maybe I could go and still have the experience and and like get around that loop. and Um, my coach at the time kind of encouraged me and said like, why not? If it doesn't work out, you can like, you could eat gelato and yeah and make a vacation of it. I was like, I like that. Like, well, you know, why not? Why not go for it? And so, um, I like, yeah, made it to Italy. I couldn't walk without them being still at that point. Like I was still pretty beat up. I actually looked more normal running when I did walking. and I mean, I was far from being a hundred percent and, um, you know, I, I liked
00:13:26
Speaker
ran the the first 25 miles of the course and it was like like the hardest thing I've ever done. It was so hard. I finished that day being broken and then woke up to do the second day and I like felt oddly a little bit better and I did it. and felt a little bit better by the end. I mean, well, still broken by the end of day two, but then again, like each day I sort of felt like a little bit more confident. And so I ended up doing these like three 25 mile runs in three days, being like just a shadow of myself as a runner. And I was sort of like, wow, I did that. like Look how quickly I could recover. And kind of got inspired to like
00:13:58
Speaker
see what else I could do that um do do with that. And so then later that year, um I signed up for the the rut trifecta, which is a really fun challenge. And that just happened last weekend. Super cool. You're on the VK one day, then then you do your 28K and then a 50K. Somebody in Lone Peak in Big Sky three times in one weekend. I did that and it went super well. And then I also that same year got a spot in the snowman race, which is a five days day stage race.
00:14:28
Speaker
yeah um which is an amazing event that's coming up here soon again. um And that went really well. So i do I guess I just discovered I have this like capacity for recovery and to be able to just like kind of get up and go again in this belief that no matter how broken down I am, no matter how tired I am, you can eat a bunch of food and go to sleep and wake up and say, okay, here we go. We're doing it again. And Dragon's Back was another opportunity to to test that out and try and and see how it goes. and experience a new landscape and new culture and um yeah made it super appealing. That's awesome. i mean yeah I'm curious because that's actually one of my weird superpowers as well as the recovery piece. yeah You said eat a bunch of food and sleep.
00:15:19
Speaker
Pretty much. Yeah.
00:15:22
Speaker
um pretty much it Okay. Yeah. Cause I was going to say, what do you, do you have anything in particular that you do for recovery? Um, and I guess applying that to dragons back as well. Yeah, I do. When I'm, when I'm at home, I certainly, I regularly work on mobility every day, sometimes twice a day. And that's nothing crazy. I'm not using like.
00:15:49
Speaker
all sorts of crazy contraptions or like recovery boots or anything like that. like It's just like gentle mobility work um and making sure that like the whole body doesn't kind of stiffen up and make sure the body's still functioning. I do that on a daily basis. Actually, interestingly enough, I did like almost none of that at Dragon's Back. um i was like Basically, like the legs and the muscles were just too tired for like any additional movement or strain whatsoever. I kind of decided that it was more more effort than it was worth, and I just focused on literally eating as much as I possibly could take in, which was kind of a fun challenge, but also exhausting by the end of the week too, oddly enough. One could only eat so many French fries in six days, it's a true thing.
00:16:33
Speaker
so
00:16:36
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. said Oh man. The chips. So many chips. Yes. So many chips. Yeah. and That's so interesting to to hear you say that because that's it's exactly what I say to people. I'm like, there is no magic. I will say one of the only magical pieces when I was doing things like that when I was younger is that I was 20 something years old and ate a lot of food and slept.
00:17:02
Speaker
Now I'm 31. So it's like, take off the 20 year old magic. But ah yeah, it's, it's, it's not complicated. It's like, not pretty straightforward. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's also just a like a training history piece to that as well. So totally being exceptionally well trained for an event really helps, but it's, you know, as you know, it's the years on years that layers of training, how they stack up. And so if, you know, someone started like ultra running,
00:17:34
Speaker
eight months ago, that same strategy is not going to work quite in the same way. But when you know when you have a decade plus of consistent training with very little break from injury and training that's in like thoughtful and intentional and all those sorts of things.
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, you you you just develop a certain level of resilience that the reality is it it just takes time to build. So yeah, I'm grateful that I've had the the will or the stubbornness to stick with it, I guess, and um and and be able to do that. Yeah, no, that's an an excellent point. I mean, I think that's the other piece.
00:18:12
Speaker
when you get questions of like, ah how can you do that? How can you do these back to backs or keep that pace? It's like i the unsexy answer is yeah well over a decade of grinding it out and just putting in yeah at the time and the effort.
Training for Dragon's Back
00:18:27
Speaker
but um To get into a few of the specifics in the lead up to Dragon's Back, first off, I should say part of the reason why we have Gabe on other than his awesomeness is that Gabe works with a familiar voice on the podcast, Chantel Robitai, as his coach. He's ah an uphill athlete ambassador. ah And when did you start working with Chantel?
00:18:56
Speaker
Um, almost about a year ago, it was sometime thought maybe it may, it might've been like October of last year or something like that. But yeah, it's about ah but like a full, a full cycle. Yeah. Full year thereabouts. So when you came to her with the idea of dragon's back, what did your plan kind of look like? yeah And was dragons back your a race or.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, i would say one area i would I would say I had two A races for the year. um i I wanted to go back and and complete the Lava Raider Ultra Trail again. So I did that in June. um That was kind of like a A goal number one. And then I felt like there was a enough time between June and September with my terrain history to to try to peak twice. um I think we pulled that off. But yeah, so those those were the two big goals for the year anyways. Nice. And so going into...
00:19:51
Speaker
Okay, laying the foundation. Let's see the period from La Verrito to Dragon's Back and maybe a little bit before that. What were some of the key ah pieces that you were focusing on within that training, ah those training kind of blocks?
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, there was ah a few things we spent a lot of time working on, or things working on. I spent a lot of time doing longer duration uphill intervals. um you know As someone that comes from that but soccer field sports background, it was really, really good at like short bursty sprints, really good at trying at a really slow pace, but that was kind of like,
00:20:34
Speaker
um you know faster paces, you know, your RPE 7, 8 kind of stuff, that thresholdy work, that isn't the sort of thing that's always come real naturally to me. Maybe you can relate. And so just continually working on that on different uphill grades um throughout the year, that was a goal. And then the other thing we added in, this was great.
00:20:54
Speaker
i Have ah a little bit as I alluded to a love-hate relationship with trucking poles And so I practiced doing a lot of those uphill intervals with poles and just became Extremely comfortable with them to the point where I would forget I was even using them I forget they're in my hand that almost like an extension of my limbs and I think sometimes I and probably myself included in the past, people think, well, I magically get some poles on my hand, I'm gonna be like faster going uphill. And it's just, they they are a tool, it's a skill set. And like any skill, you you can make progress with it. And so this year,
00:21:30
Speaker
like stop being afraid of them and just be like, I'm going to use these things. And I did, I used them a ton. And then they really served me well at both, um, Lava Radio and Dragon's Back. Whereas last year, I still maybe like struggled with them. I didn't always like them. I don't know. I don't know how much they always helped me. So.
00:21:47
Speaker
That was a huge improvement this year. so I worked on that like having that uphill power speed and endurance. That was huge. um and Then the technique to be able to you know use the poles as a tool to to make me faster and not stressed out. Awesome. yeah that's I think one of the ah really tricky parts of a multi-day stage race is essentially every day is an opportunity for a single race.
00:22:14
Speaker
yeah And it is honestly kind of astonishing how fast you have to go and how hard you have to push every single day. You really do. that's That was maybe my my my greatest surprise about Dragon's Back. In my mind, I pictured it being more like what I'd call like adventure pace because it's 240 miles in a week.
00:22:33
Speaker
and you know When we got going on day one, the pace was like so hot, I was sort of like, whoa, this can't be how it's going to be, is it? And like it was. um yeah people People pushed hard really every day, and like credit to like my competitors for that. They're all like super high-level athletes.
00:22:53
Speaker
um and so like My goal was to, strategy-wise, I guess, was to like try to start this thing a little bit more relaxed, knowing that it's there's six days for things to shake out. um And it was difficult to execute that strategy when I'm not sure my competitors have that same mentality. So to try to stay connected with the front of the field while also trying to rein it in a little bit.
00:23:21
Speaker
um That was a really difficult balance and I felt like I was having to work really hard to thread the needle. it it is it's also Gosh, we're getting right into it. I'll pull back after this. but ah Dragon's Back is also a very interesting starting situation. You don't have a set start time. Well, yeah you kind of do. you have If you hit a certain time within the day, you have to start after say like 7.30 because they don't want you to be there before they're set up or 7. So they kind of say like, hey,
00:24:00
Speaker
you have an hour period to start. And so there's a lot of strategy that goes into what time you start and what time you start in relation to your competitors. Do you want them behind you? Do you want them in front of you in like the mind games that are being played, just like standing there in or like kind of walking up slowly into the start boxes? Yeah. yeah So how did you manage that, ah that piece with Yeah, I was starting as Fascinating and kind of new to me and maybe a bit unexpected I knew a little bit about that going in but I didn't quite knew how serious like people take that and I'm Maybe a little more low-key than that like just inherently like I have to sometimes work hard to be competitive
00:24:49
Speaker
And so like, you know, I'd walk up to the starting line, just right at like, we could start at the earliest, I could start with eight o'clock and I would try to be there right at eight and I'd be like, saying to people like, Hey, you want to start, you want to start out running together? And they'd be like, go shuffling away, but like ah i'm goingnna away let be like, I'd be like, okay, nobody wants to run with me. you know And I'd be like, Oh, well, and I would just get started. Um, and I just didn't, I just didn't play those games. Cause I was, I, my, like my,
00:25:16
Speaker
Kind of my like my mantra and sort of my ad who was like, this is six days of running, whatever ah any of us do to try to like gain a three minute advantage or whatever. Like it's just going to shake out in the end. um And to be fair, I think it did work out that way this year.
00:25:33
Speaker
Maybe in a different year, maybe that wouldn't have worked as well, depending just on how the the competition ah stacked out. But it was sort of like I i wasn't going to stress about every minute or two here or there, because like over 240 miles, of like if you end up beating someone by like, or if they beat you by like, say, three minutes, like that's pretty wild. You know, if it's that close. And so I was sort of banking on just not being that close like that couldn't I'm like how could that possibly be the deciding factor so I always try to get people to run with me and when they didn't I just ran I like by the end things started to mellow out a little bit more on that front when I think you can kind of see that there was like such a big gap between ah the folks at the front that I was sort of like look like unless one of us absolutely implodes
00:26:15
Speaker
like, this is probably how it's gonna be. Which does, it does happen. But yes, it but that that's not going to be you know, the few minutes the starting aren't the reason why someone drops or yeah, loses hours. Yeah, I also think people just get too tired. I'm too tired to play these games anymore. Yeah, the maybe the one thing I wish I had maybe done to play those games, not to try to get any sort of advantage. But I didn't have any chance to recce the course. And I was racing with people that live in Wales. And that intimate course knowledge they had were sometimes where I would be hot in someone's heels and the fog. And all of a sudden, they would disappear because they took some shortcut I didn't know about. And they appeared 10 minutes ahead of me somewhere. I'd be like,
00:27:06
Speaker
Sometimes that felt like a losing battle where like, how do you beat someone that has that kind of course knowledge? And so I'm like, well, maybe if I had like latched onto them a little bit more, I could have taken a few more of those shortcuts. um But also, I don't know, that might not have changed the end result anyway. So I took the scenic route, I was just thinking of the way. You got the the most for your money. Yes, exactly. That's what it's all about.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, it is tricky. um Yeah, that's definitely a piece we can get into. But what just to kind of touch on a few more pieces of of the training.
00:27:47
Speaker
I think people's biggest question when you're looking at a 60 stage race is how the heck do you train for that? And is it something that looks significantly different from say a hundred mile build up? Um, also I think people have that question with 200 milers as well of, you know, how much more volume can you do? How do pieces get shifted? So I'm curious you've done.
00:28:14
Speaker
quite a lot of 100s, how did this feel different than say, a traditional build or similar? Yeah, I would say in a lot of ways, it was quite similar. Like, because you can, you know, you can only add so much training stimulus for so long before it starts to just like break you down. So I feel like, you know, a lot of the like the day to day training was about what I would have expected for like 100 mile race. Maybe like the, there'd be like moments where we're like really like,
00:28:45
Speaker
have a real concentration in the volume, like it really boosts it up for like a week or two, get a a few more consecutive like back to back to back kind of days. But again, of course, with like the recovery um being enhanced as well after that, but like, really just to like help get all that soft tissue ready to go so that tendons and ligaments and all those sorts of things survive such a big effort. But otherwise, as far as like interval structure and and overall volume, I wouldn't say it was massively different than what I do. I i think my like my most unusual or significant week of training I did, I did like a four day training camp that started with like a ah very long
00:29:27
Speaker
Um, 50 mile adventure run with a couple of friends that like very adventure pace, like probably half of it was off trail practicing specific skills that were going to be helpful with dragon's bag. Like finding, like picking, you know, the best lineup or down like an open grassly mountain, you know, um, uh, all those sorts of things. So I did like a 50 mile a day like that. And then the next three days I did kind of a consecutive 20 ish mile runs that were all like.
00:29:55
Speaker
four to five hour in length. um And then after like after that fourth day, it was like pretty clear, I was like, okay, ah time for time for recovery day. um And so you know that would have been an unusual week in trading it for 100 unnecessary, but I think a week like that was really critical to being prepared for the multi-day element of Dragon's Back, even though I didn't run anywhere close to 240 miles that training week, but it helped kind of create like that mindset of recovery and how to run sustainably um and yeah, kind of kind of keep your wits together for another huge week. Yeah, no, that's I think that's a great example because that isn't something that you would really ever do for a hundredth of the way overkill, but I think very crucial, something along those lines yeah of of that kind of back to back to back to back.
00:30:55
Speaker
Did you practice like your, they use this term in the UK more than I feel like they do here, but like your admin, so you know your recovery pieces, your gear, like how did that factor into your training as well?
00:31:11
Speaker
That was something I didn't. Did you eat french fries? I did i ate a yeah lot of chips, a lot of french fries. That was something I did not have to work on very hard. and I know there's a lot of focus on that in the UK. It's like get your admin right. But like based on my other experiences I had there with like the rut trifecta and with um Um, the snowman race, I also did just for fun last year and to kind of experiment with this, I did like 180 mile run, like three and a half days. I ran from my front door here in Lander to to Jackson, Wyoming, um, which was a really cool adventure, but get like, so I had this experience of like knowing exactly what I need to do to take care of myself, how to, how to keep my feet together, how to fuel and, um,
00:31:57
Speaker
For me, I didn't have to work on that at all. If you maybe didn't have that experience, that'd be something to like really thoughtfully consider about how you're gonna take care of yourself over multiple days. But like we said, it's like eat a lot, sleep a lot, make sure you take care of your feet and ah you'll probably be fine. Yeah. Did you find, so Dragon's Back also has really specific ah requirements for you get any 60 liter,
00:32:25
Speaker
a bag that that's the only bag you have and then you get a drop bag. Did you find packing for that to be particularly challenging or not too bad?
Packing Challenges for Dragon's Back
00:32:36
Speaker
I did.
00:32:36
Speaker
i did i um I would have maybe I would have packed like maybe a couple more things or packed slightly differently if I had a little bit more room. I packed a lot of supplemental food um just because I know how important it is to keep eating at these events. I also have celiac disease, so I was bringing in some of my extra own personal gluten-free food to make sure I had some additional options as well. and so I used every cubic inch of that bag to bring all that I could.
00:33:07
Speaker
and I would do that again. There was very little. Well, i was there's very little I didn't use except for the required kit. You know, the required kit you have to run with. And and my humble opinion is rather overkill. um And so that's what I didn't use. It was the required kit. It was all those like supplemental things that I brought with me. Those were we're really key to have with. Yeah, it's a heavy pack. My upper body was wrecked from six days of that.
00:33:38
Speaker
yeah Yeah, shoulders got really really sore. Yeah. So I, you know, when I witnessed light is minimal, as I possibly could with that while still following all the rules. And if I, if I did dragons back again, I would have to even like thoughtfully consider like, how could I,
00:33:53
Speaker
There's got to be some way to even save some more weight there or something, but it just, it feels like a bit much. I mean, I feel like I could have done, and I know they're trying to keep people safe. I'm not being critical. Um, but it felt like a ah lot for the, for the kind of running that we were doing, but that's okay. It's their race. They can do what they want. Did you feel, or I guess, um, how was the weather for you guys?
00:34:16
Speaker
um Really different from what it sounds like you had previously, but it was it was proper Welsh weather, which I was excited about. That's what I wanted, where oftentimes it didn't like it didn't like rain a ton, but it was like misty clouds, sometimes foggy, and it was ah maybe a lovely balance, and that way we'd get like breaks in the clouds and sometimes get these astounding views that would maybe last for a couple of hours.
00:34:43
Speaker
There was a handful of times on climbs where I was like, whoa, this feels warm. But it never lasted that long. And I think there was a handful of times on ridges where I was like, whoa, it's chilly up here.
00:34:55
Speaker
Like really for the majority of the week, it's quite a comfortable temperature. It was just, uh, extremely wet, you know, um, almost nonstop running and puddles and things like that. I mean, feet were never dry. Yeah. Six straight days of wet feet. And, um, so I think it was like a, uh, a proper Welsh experience. So that's what I was hoping for. Nice. Yeah. We definitely had a lot different last year. It was.
00:35:24
Speaker
very hot, very sunny, which, you know, has his pluses and myuses. But yeah, the heat was ah definitely a big factor in the race. Like a tiny bit of rain, I think like one day. Yeah, it was very, very different. How did you manage? I mean, and even with that, my feet were wet most of the time. So how did you manage the foot care piece of it? oh This is actually a little bit funny. So typically is what I do is that there's several different balms out there that you can put in your feet to help out with this. I usually use when I don't have any affiliation with this company, I usually use Joshua Tree Balm, which is like made for climbers hands to help them like toughen up the skin and recover. And so I'll use that on my feet regularly. um Like two days before leaving ah for for Dragon's Back, I went to my local shop. It's ah it's a very climbing oriented outdoor store. They always have that stuff in for years.
00:36:22
Speaker
And I wouldn't to get some more Joshua Tree Balm when they're like, we're all out. What? I was like, I need something. They were all, I couldn't believe it. I've never gone in there and they didn't have it. And so my fault for not like, plodding the head more. And so I was like, like okay, I'm gonna have to figure something else out. And so I was looking around the shop and I'm trying to remember the name of this product. They have like this like dog section of the shop with like, roughware harnesses and stuff like that. And they have this stuff called like, musher's paws.
00:36:51
Speaker
And it's basically like a similar product full of lots of like wax and a little bit of oil and it's made for sled dogs' paws. And so I was looking at like what it's made out of and the ingredients, like put a little bit of my fingers and I felt it. I'm like, I think this is kind of the same thing or pretty close to it. Anyways, so I took this risk. I'd never used this product before. I bought, I think I'm pretty sure it's called Musher's Paws. And I brought that with me. I mean, it keeps dog's feet.
00:37:19
Speaker
Okay. And that cold, blowing stuff all day. I was like, it's gotta work all right. So I put musher's paws, um, balm on my feet, uh, at least twice each evening. You know, once, as soon as my feet like reasonably dried out enough, I put a thick layer of it on there. And then I tried to put another layer of it on before I went to bed at night. And what a massive difference that makes putting something like that on your feet. And it worked great. I had like basically no blisters. I always get that I have one spot in each of my little toes where I always get a blister no matter what I do. And I just got those routine ones, but those are like zero issue. I get those on like a 15 mile run too. So um um yeah, my feet look, mayor besides being like having mud stuck in every little crease and toenail for like, I think it's still there. Other than that, like my feet look normal when I finished. So that's,
00:38:08
Speaker
Not everyone could say that there. So yeah, the musher's paws. I endorse it. There it is. I love it. That's awesome. ah Yeah, I think, gosh, that's honestly, I think one of people's biggest struggles in dragon's back is the feet are just insane. Yeah, they get really bad.
00:38:29
Speaker
Having the right shoe sock combination is so key, like making sure like the way the sock hugs your foot you know and then how it like connects and attaches to your shoe. like if you If you can have that dialed in,
00:38:45
Speaker
Blisters like aren aren't something normally I struggle with. And so I made sure I took my um my absolute most comfortable shoes I have that just fit my foot perfectly and brought all my favorite socks that I know work well with it. And um I was able to go into go into the race, like not really worrying about my feet because I had done my homework ahead of time and made sure I had something I knew was going to work. Nice. How many pairs of shoes did you rank?
00:39:13
Speaker
um I brought three pairs of shoes. Two of them were more or less the same thing. And then one pair I brought that is quite good on on rock. um I ended up not, I wore those for like a half a day, I switched into them. And I just given like the amount of mud and water, I was like, no, this is not the right tool ah for the job. And so I barely wore those.
00:39:39
Speaker
So I mean, in essence, like I wore like oh two, I just switched between two shoes for the majority of the race. And so if I was going to do it again, I'd probably just bring two shoes and say, pack extra snacks instead of a third pair of shoes. But it's hard to pack shoes when you don't, don't know quite what you're getting yourself into. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's tricky as well because a they're damp from, you know, just the day being out, but you start getting into the,
00:40:09
Speaker
four, five and six, five a little bit less, but four and six, there's not an insignificant amount of road running or in a pretty runnable terrain. So you, I, you really don't want an aggressively technical shoe for those parts that can really mess your feet up. Yeah. A lot of people switch shoes halfway through. And I, you know, I took some of the advice and I tried that that one day. And, um, yeah, I was like, that's not worth it.
00:40:38
Speaker
Um, I sort of feel like having one shoe that is like kind of an all around her, maybe it's not the best at anything, but it's capable of everything. That's what you want for dragons back. Something that.
00:40:52
Speaker
you're not going to be, you're not going to get to whatever service and go, oh no, I have these on. Like, yeah. So it's yeah.
Strategy for Dragon's Back
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah. Low stress. Just be like, well, they're comfortable no matter what it is. And they're, they're going to do at least good enough on whatever it is that, because yeah, I saw some people running some of those, like, you know, like, uh, we call them like a gravel bike path, right? But like one of those paths, like, and you know, in these minimal foul shoes. And I was like, Ooh, that, that looks like it would really hurt. Um, yeah. sure yeah Yeah, no, that's it's ah it's just such a i mean such an enormous amount of distance and terrain and variation.
00:41:29
Speaker
um There's just so much room for success and error. Yeah, and and I think that's one of the things that drew me to this race is I like variety in my running. And I like races where you have to have skills in fitness and a little bit of everything rather than just being a specialist in one thing. And this race definitely brings that because whatever kind of running you can think of, it was there. Yes, it definitely is. So what was your strategy going into
00:42:03
Speaker
this sixth day. We've touched on it a little bit, but I was tracking you quite religiously and checking in with Chantal and she was like, he's following the plan. ah Was it with the updates I was getting? But how is it on the ground? And what did you decide going into it? Yeah, yeah, that's pretty accurate. um My def, you know, like I kind of said, it like,
00:42:28
Speaker
I knew there was six days for this to kind of all work itself out. So my goal was to try to take particularly one and two a little bit more like relaxed, a little bit more easy, easy into things. It's also, but no as you know, is by far the most like technically challenging day. ah It was even more technically difficult than I thought because it it rained a ton, days one and two. And in the rocks there,
00:42:56
Speaker
I found especially slippery like a lot of the rocks, particularly on day one, it was like they might as well have been covered in ice and I had fantastic rubber in my shoes that sticks to basically anything I run on typically but I i really struggled.
00:43:10
Speaker
um particularly descending some of that rocky terrain because I thought I was going to fall constantly. And there was two different people, two of the guys who were right in the top five ended up with either broken ribs or bruised intercostal muscles. Oh, geez. I mean, there was lots of big spills and falls and stuff. So my fear of falling was not unfounded. And I was much less aggressive on those descends than any of my competitors.
00:43:39
Speaker
ah I also have a little bit of a fear of falling as it is. So um i I took, I ran the uphills hard. I did the best I could. I kind of on days in one and two, but I i did not push any of those really rugged sections because I was just kind of like, you know, I don't think there's that much to gain here. I could, you know, push a bit harder and it's going to be a little bit faster might fall. So one and two, I was pretty relaxed. um In day three, I sort of felt like.
00:44:05
Speaker
almost fresher than day one and two. I was still stuck struggling with jet lag a little bit on days one and two. And I woke up day three being like, yeah, it's go time. And I kind of took the handbrake off and was able to not push it hard, that would i wouldn't be accurate, but just to kind of run a little bit more free like it was a normal run. and The terrain was kind of wonderfully diverse and and maybe a little bit more... it just The landscape maybe a little bit reminded me of what I'm more familiar with and I was able to have a really fantastic day three and same with did carry that into day four and run really well as well. and um
00:44:45
Speaker
So I was able to move up the field quite a bit just in those two days where my strategy of kind of holding back a little bit at days one and two, and then take the handbrake off days three and four was fantastic. And that was, yeah, like Chantel said, all part of the plan. And as you know, day five is just exceptionally difficult. um i Day five started out really well, I think.
00:45:08
Speaker
um like the metabolic challenges of the event caught up to me a little bit on day five. I thought I was having a little bit of an off day and I was fueling as normally, but I think in hindsight, looking back on it, I was like, I think I was just kind of starting to bonk. I think I was just burning through calories so fast that the second half of day five, I think I was just running a bit depleted. um And so that day went okay, but not as well as days three and four.
00:45:32
Speaker
and um And then day six is a mega challenge. I don't know what's up with people. Everyone there was like, oh, day six is easy. I was like 41 miles of like mostly road running is not easy in my book. And so again, I like, yeah, struggled day six of it with being depleted. I had a little bit of ah a muscular injury, kind of started to flare up to day six. Like I was just like pretty much maxed out. and you know I was able to run everything they to the finish, but um it was basically just holding it together. and And with where the places were in the race, they fortunately didn't have anything to worry about in that front. Like if I sat in a bench for three hours, that would have done it. But all I had to do was keep moving and I knew I'd finish in third. um And so, yeah, that's kind of how it all played out from a day-to-day perspective. And if I was going to do it again, I would um would implement that same strategy. Nice. I mean, that doesn't happen very often that
00:46:27
Speaker
Uh, you get to actually live out what you were planning. I mean, that shows a lot of maturity and, uh, Patience. Patience. I think I was reflecting the two after the race. I've been guilty of this so many times, but like, I think oftentimes it's like viewed as a really courageous thing to kind of go out hard and hold on for dear life.
00:46:57
Speaker
and i I think it's actually the opposite. I think it's a really courageous thing to like start slow and like believe that that's going to pay off because you don't you don't know if it's going to pay off. you know Your competition might become out of reach and I have been guilty of the former so many times in my life you know going out too hard. and and so to I had to really work on my mental game and be like,
00:47:20
Speaker
believing like this is going to work out. This is a six-day race. Even at the end of day two, where I wasn't where I wanted to be, it was like, there's still four more days are running. like It doesn't matter. You're going to be okay. And and to keep believing in that, that took a ah lot of courage and um was difficult. But credit to Chantal and credit to my support network for helping me believe and and stick to that because it wasn't easy. Yeah, I think that's it.
00:47:48
Speaker
That's such a great point. I think I saw your post about it. And I am terribly guilty of of going out and just being like, well, screw it. I'm gonna lose contact. I'm i'm not gonna keep up. And on I did honestly very similar. It wasn't even like a strategy. But UTMB, I was in 83rd woman.
00:48:15
Speaker
at the first aid first or second aid station, I think the second one, and went, i moved up to 11th, which I've never been able to have that patience before. I was like, I don't know when it's going to be magic if it's coming. Yeah. But it's also, gosh, does it feel good to move up versus get chased down?
00:48:42
Speaker
ah died to finish your race pushing rather than just surviving. you know If you get there, it's so much more fun and it's a better experience. And it's not it's not as as fun and exciting on the live feed you know when you're running like AV, but it's like nobody wins 100 mile race at mile 20. There's still a long ways to go. So yeah, bravo. Credit to you. Well, I mean, right back at you. Thank you. Yeah, it's fun.
00:49:10
Speaker
So I'm curious, what was your favorite day and least favorite day? um I mean, I really did enjoy all the days like on some level. I'd say day three was my favorite. I really enjoyed the the terrain. I forget the name of the mountain on t day three. They start with this big climb up into this really rugged peak that was in the clouds. And my friends, they told me the name of this mountain probably a dozen times, and I still don't have it.
00:49:37
Speaker
um I think it's like a little something and it's a mountain. Yes. yeah And to the people who are yelling at your speakers, yes i'm so sorry I apologize, you can send me a message and correct me, I won't be offended. ah But anyways, I love that mountain. I love there was this wonderful climb up it and then it's kind of like it was like this bouldery rock hopping running that like yeah again, it felt like ah very similar to what I'm used to and it just, it felt good up there. I enjoyed running in the clouds and then there was this great, ah great descent coming off of that. And then there was some more climb. I don't know the way the day came at it. I just, where it, I got lucky into that I was day three is where I took the handbrake off and day three was kind of the day of the race. I felt like most um comfortable with the course. And so that was, that'd be my favorite. But as far as like.
00:50:33
Speaker
least favored difficult day six was just like really difficult where you know day six I was ready to be done like everybody else and um the terrain was for sure less inspiring but not less interesting you know just the fact is a different country I still found it interesting to run through um but just you know I was at I was at my physical capacity for what I was doing that week and uh I made it for just a very long challenging day and you know when I got to Cardiff Castle like it's one of those things I can Thankfully say like, i I didn't have anything left. That was it. Um, uh, so I guess I i timed it out about right. Nice. Yeah. Day six is just, it feels like you're almost there the entire day. Yeah. Like, Oh, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. But you, yeah, I, I, that was a really, yeah, that was an interesting day as well. Um,
00:51:29
Speaker
I just couldn't believe that it was going to be done. So with 5k to go, I was still in like, sir like, not survival pace, but not in like, Hey, kick it in. And then I had a few guys pass me and they're like, you're almost done. Go. And I was like, Oh, yeah, maybe I should start trying to really go for the finish because it's actually done. Yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
i Maybe to the opposite, I started looking at my watch too early and started doing the countdown all to day six and I had to like i had to work really hard. you know like you know and Maybe like a 100 mile race, you can run aid station, aid station. like There aren't aid stations throughout these long days and so I had to kind of try to come up with ways to liket chunk it up so it was in bite-sized pieces and I wasn't looking at my watch going, oh my gosh, 36 more miles to go, okay. you know I was like, okay, it's like, two more miles to the next climb. All right, that's great. that's how I can get to the next two miles. I had to break it up that way, and which is you know less exciting than a crewed aid station look forward to. But it works. It works to chunk it up like that. So I got through it. Yeah, that's such a great point. I mean, it is really different in that regard where not only can you not have crew,
00:52:46
Speaker
or like they're really strict about any outside help, which I think is great. I mean, even it's a playing field, ah but you have one like quote unquote aid station ah where you pick up your drop bag and that's it. And sometimes that can be 50 kilometers into the day. I mean, it's a, it's a long gap.
00:53:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's almost like a self-supported race. Not quite, but you got to carry a lot of lot of calories on you and oftentimes like carry a lot of water. I imagine you had to carry an absurd amount of water with the warmth you had. ah and so You you kind of really have to be able to plan ahead and and anticipate what you're going to need and have that ability to take care of yourself. But yeah, if you're the sort of person that needs an aid station every five to eight miles, it'd be very challenging.
00:53:32
Speaker
Yes, it's it's not that race. it is And you're not getting pacers, you know you're not, yeah. I will say I do think the is the way that it the staggered start, I loved coming up on people and you'd kind of know how people's days were going by like, oh, I hit such and such at this point. Like, oh man, they're having a great day. Like it took me a while to catch them. We're like, ah man, I hope they're okay today. They're like, I caught them a little bit sooner than I was expecting to.
00:54:00
Speaker
I absolutely loved that or like pat passes my teammates along the way and see how they're doing going. Yeah. And you kind of know roughly what time of the day you might see them. And, um, yeah, some, some of the people who, you know, I could finish a day with, but like, you know, maybe they started an hour ahead of me or something like that, but it was, I loved that. So it it wasn't like one of those races where you felt like alone and isolated in the wilderness or something like that. I never had that feeling. I felt like I was never very far from.
00:54:28
Speaker
a friendly face. I really enjoyed that social aspect of the race. Yeah, no, that makes it really fun. um I totally agree. That's why I actually really love hurt is that your heart loop, it's not a loop, ah it's like out and backs. And so you're seeing people and cheering them on. And ah from a competitive standpoint, it's very interesting because you're constantly being like, ah, they're that far back or like, oh, they're there. Which, yeah, but it ah it's really fun to have that interaction with people, for sure. Yeah, I enjoy it. Yep. So what was one of the
00:55:12
Speaker
more difficult parts of the race that you weren't expecting? um Some of the steepness and slipperiness of the descending was like pretty bonkers at times. where you know I had great lugs on my shoes and like nothing would have worked. like you know People are like shuffling downhill as fast as they could and you end up laying on your butt and sliding down that where I was just like, wow. Like pushing down some of those slopes at that that intensity was really difficult. And sometimes there just like literally wasn't traction to be had. And so yeah, I'd like finishing these days just absolutely covered in mud from sliding down things or falling into bogs. I learned all about bogs. I don't know if you fell in into any of those, but I had
00:55:59
Speaker
three different bog experiences where you're like, Oh, or like, I was like, I think that's just like a little bit of mud right there. And I'd, you know, step on it. And suddenly I'm like waist deep, like pulling myself out of this, like, hold the ground with my arms and, um,
00:56:13
Speaker
I thought I was improving at that throughout the week, like reading the terrain, but no, it still was happening. Even in like day five, I fell into a bog once. ah ah you know so I finished every day just absolutely filthy. so just i you know It's very dry here in Wyoming. I don't deal with a lot of mud and certainly not bogs. and yeah That was a learning curve for me for sure.
00:56:36
Speaker
Yeah, those bugs are wild. And you're like, is my foot going to come out? I don't know. It could just get eaten by that. how I know. like How far down do these things go? Could could I fall in and never reappear? like Am I going to be one of those 2,000-year-old preserved bodies someday in ah and a bog in Wales? Anyways, I don't anyway so so was was a little freaked out by them. But know what else can you do though when it happened? Just laugh about it. and you know Hope there's a stream at the at the finish. Yeah, I think sheep actually get like stuck in there. Yeah, and they don't- Well, I believe it. Yeah. I think one of my Welsh friends might've been pulling my leg. I don't know. Maybe not. He was talking about airplanes crashing and these things and disappearing forever. I was like, okay, come on. So if anyway if that's true, I would love, someone please cite their source on that, but otherwise I thought it was a great story.
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah, send us send us that news article for confirmation. Yes, please. Airplanes disappeared in bogs. I believe it. I don't know. So what was one piece that you felt like i I really nailed that aspect and what's one part that you would love to improve upon for another stage race or an adjustment that you would like?
00:57:55
Speaker
Sure. All that specific training I mentioned that she had told me to do all the long duration uphill intervals, all the like the work with poles, that 100% paid off. Even on, there's not a lot of climbs on day six, but even all all the later days when there was climbs, I was able to just like keep running up basically all but the steepest ones where it just felt like, how could I not run up them? like i've I've done this a thousand times. I'm okay.
00:58:24
Speaker
And um that really paid off well as the race went on. And other people's legs fatigued a little bit more than minded on those. So it's really nice when you can see that connection to the training of like, oh, this is what I did a lot of. And like, oh, look, I'm doing good at it. Fantastic. So I forgot your question. But anyways, that's something that went really well.
00:58:44
Speaker
Nice. And then something that say your next stage race, dragon's back or not, or 200 miler or anything, you'd be like, Hey, I would, I would work on this. Yeah. I would work on my descending speed. Um, it was, you know, I was very surprised at how slippery it was there, but there's, there was certainly room for improvement. Like I got to find a way to get down those quickers. Um, so that way people aren't pulling away from me on descent. So then I'm coming of back up to them in a sense, but, uh,
00:59:11
Speaker
try to get more of an an even even effort on those. Yeah, room for improvement there. It's coming 2025 or 20 years this is 2025. Okay, descending. There's still time. I mean, it's only September. We saw this is true. I've been bracing a little bit what I call cookie season, a little bit of an off season now or I'm gonna take three or four weeks and try to bake as much as I run and then, yeah, we'll see. wellll We'll see what ah like October and November bring. Maybe that'll be the goal unless it gets really snowy here, which sometimes it does. Anyways, yep. I'll start building towards something. Yeah, hopefully yeah you know something in a tropical place we'll have to see. At least hopefully on an island of some kind. That would be lovely. I like island running. We'll see.
00:59:58
Speaker
yeah yeah Me too. Yeah, it is. I will say though that i it is truly incredible watching. ah Welsh and UK runners de descend. They are just awesome at it. It's like a masterclass. It's really impressive. It really is. Like the fearlessness is pretty, pretty impressive. And like, and it does vary by terrain too. you Like it's that, that slippery, technical terrain, which is unbelievable. Like the same thing though, if you go into like the Alps or the Dolomites, like watching the Italians descend or something, it's like,
01:00:33
Speaker
well whoa, just an absolute, another level above where I am. And ah I aspire to that, but I'm afraid I have a little ways to go still. Keep at it. But I mean, that's, yeah, that is a fun part, though, is I think working on the descents. You just have to take a ski lift up and then just bomb the downhills. That's always a part. Right? Yeah, there we go. Like, could do that. Yep, I'll start. Chantel, I know you're listening. Let's scheme.
01:01:04
Speaker
Let's go. Yeah, let's go. oh Awesome. Well, is there anything else you'd like to share about dragons back or just kind of things that you've learned along the way with the with our audience?
Encouragement for Multi-Day Adventures
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I just think you know There's not a lot of stage races out there or opportunities for for multi-day running. and i I guess I would just encourage people to like dip their toes in that water and give it a try. and you can You don't have to sign up for a race to do that, but even just planning a multi-day adventure in your backyard or several back-to-backs, there's something about it that I find really gratifying. and I think from the racing perspective, I like how
01:01:47
Speaker
almost has like a summer camp feel like you're running with the same people every day and you you get to make new friends and and share those experiences. So a hundred mile races are great. I'm still 200 mile curious. Haven't been there yet. We'll see. Um, but it's, it's another great way to explore huge landscapes and connect with different cultures and different people that, um, I have to imagine if more people are, are able to do that. It's something they'd be really glad they did.
01:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think it also teaches you that there's so much there's so much more there. There's so much more left in the tank than you think. Yeah, like you've been you. Yeah, like you finish a long run, you're like, I'm fried, I can't do that tomorrow. And then somehow you wake up in the morning, and the first few miles might be really rough. But all of a sudden, it's like, oh, there it comes. Like, I think more busing i think yeah Yeah, I think that's really powerful to realize. Yeah, it really is. Actually, I was really astounded by, you know, i've I've reflected that a lot. But I remember in camp on day five, I was getting ready for bed, it was like, I think nine o'clock or nine 30. And the cutoff is 10pm. And I remember seeing two different people cross the finish line at 915 or something like that.
01:03:07
Speaker
It's one girl across the finish line at 9.15 and she's absolutely like broken to tears and you know, I'm reading between the lines here, but I think half of it was really relief. and Finishing day five, which is such a huge day, but then I such hard see that She was thinking to herself. How am I gonna wakeke up and do that again? and ah And I saw another guy say it same deal He just like almost collapsed and had some help some help him walk to his tent and ah But they were gonna do it, you know, there's only one day left They were gonna do it and I just thought that was I thought that super inspired it like everybody here is is having a hard time. Everyone is struggling, but we all chose to be here. We all chose to do this. like There's really nothing to complain about. um Go eat some more chips, get some sleep, and get ready to go again. I love that. I thought it was super cool and inspiring to see everyone work through it in their own different ways. Yeah. And the volunteer support is just awesome. They're such amazing people. They really make it, especially good. It's just so dialed in, too. like Yeah.
01:04:08
Speaker
there is there's never like a wrinkle of the plan or anything like so dialed so kind. ah Yeah, wonderful people. Yeah, no, the volunteers, especially there were a couple of them that well, they remembered me as the girl who DNF in 2019. So that was a whole thing. but They also they're like, you're doing really well. And then you really just did it. Yeah, I know I'm aware that happens during in the like,
01:04:38
Speaker
lovingly blunt way of the, ah of the way that the news was delivered. I was like, yep, and I'm back. I had to redeem myself. And that I just loved like I had a couple of volunteers who like adopted me. They were like, you're really far away from home. I'm going to be your mom this week in just the hour. That's lovely. Wonderful. Yeah. All those runners need a little bit of mothering. That's a great thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's a, it's a really special event. And I think it's,
01:05:08
Speaker
I don't think I ever spend time reflecting on the fact of like, yeah, we ran the length of wheels across the hardest sections. Like not the easy way, the hard way. It's kind of absurd really. Like, yeah, it's difficult to wrap the brain around. Yeah, but Um, awesome. Well, game, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me and I'm excited to meet you in person. Hopefully one of these days soon. And, um, I'm sure we'll have you back on to, yeah, we should, I think, I think there's a number of topics that we can get into. Um, cause I, I'm going to guess you have a pretty strong mental game. So we didn't even really touch on that too much, but it would be fun to pick your brain on like.
01:05:55
Speaker
what you what you've been doing in that regard. Yeah, that's something I've worked very hard hard on over the years. So yep, happy to happy talk about that. Come back anytime. It's been great. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Thanks again. All right. Our Gabe went up on that. Thanks, Gabe, for coming on the uphill athlete podcast. ah You can always do us a favor by rating, reviewing, subscribing us on any of of your favorite podcast platforms. I'm crushing this closing statement, but thank you for listening. And it's not one, but a community. We are uphill athletes.